0:00

What's up, guys? It's your favorite

0:02

Internet queers. I'm Ashley Gavin.

0:04

I'm Alena Joy, and I'm Mac and Jimmy,

0:06

and we are here to tell you about our new podcast

0:09

chosen family on the Forever Dog Podcast

0:11

Network. Each week, we're bringing you a topic

0:13

or a theme related to queer life to the family

0:15

dinner table to weigh in, deliberate, and discuss

0:17

the right thing to do. The smart thing

0:20

to do and the dumb thing we know is dumb,

0:22

but we'll probably end up doing anyway. Hey,

0:24

we never said we were perfect. I am

0:26

perfect. Right? Okay. We'll be talking

0:28

about everything from our own dating

0:30

lives, sex lives, to

0:32

dealing with family and friend's IRL,

0:34

then we'll invite you our stunningly

0:37

gorgeous listeners. To join in on the family

0:39

conversation by answering any of your questions

0:41

and dilemmas, listen to chosen family podcast

0:44

every Wednesday on Apple Podcast, Spotify,

0:46

or wherever you get your podcast. You can also

0:48

watch every episode on YouTube to get the full

0:51

family experience. Enjoy.

0:53

forever. Dog.

1:06

Just for sweetie to say. And

1:13

I'm Allison Raskin. I'm a writer, mental

1:16

health advocate, and I've already historically cried

1:18

today. Hi. I'm Gabby Dunn. I'm a writer,

1:20

Icon, bisexual, Icon, wink,

1:22

and when. We've been together all

1:24

day. Oh, I had a big cry around

1:27

eight fifteen AM today. So,

1:29

like, one bit of time we weren't

1:31

together. Why? Well,

1:33

because I I woke up. I

1:36

did my thirty minutes ish of

1:38

Pilates, which is my new workout routine.

1:40

Then I was getting my breakfast. And in the kitchen,

1:43

my knee did its most severe

1:46

buckle since my surgery,

1:48

and

1:48

it it was really scary and traumatizing.

1:51

And I and I don't think that my patella

1:54

moved, which was what my my surgery

1:56

was to fix, but it was still very destabilizing.

1:59

And so then I got I got upset

2:01

and overwhelmed and so then I went into the bedroom

2:03

and set. on the bed as John

2:05

woke up and historically cried. Does he

2:07

often wake up to you as seriously crying?

2:09

Far less than you think I think this

2:11

was maybe the first time he's woken up to

2:13

me, hysterically crying. Is that why you

2:15

texted us and said, we used to start at

2:17

ten instead of nine thirty. No. I

2:19

think I texted that before it happened. Okay.

2:22

But I because it well, actually, I I texted that

2:24

because I wanted to push back so I would have time

2:26

to walk the dogs. But then

2:28

because that app and I was afraid to walk, so

2:30

I made John do it anyway. Oh my god.

2:32

I have a storied life. All the sorts

2:35

of stuff's happening. Well, I mean,

2:37

so but it wasn't the same. Right? Like,

2:39

your knee is okay? Yeah. It wasn't

2:41

a dislocation. Thank God or a subluxation, but

2:43

it was still like a big and stability. And

2:45

I'm sure it was just that my leg was exhausted

2:48

from the workout, I guess, so it was

2:50

feeling weak. So it -- Yeah. -- and you get

2:52

worried that it was the old stuff. Yeah.

2:55

And it's just a really scary feeling and it

2:57

feels gross

2:57

and scary and I and

2:59

then I had to have a cry.

3:01

I I'm so sorry. I totally

3:03

get like also when you get a little

3:05

sick and you're like kind of think it's similar

3:08

to even something that was bad and then

3:10

you're like, well, it's all over and then just

3:12

start crying. Like, if I feel

3:14

like a little bit of like a panic attack,

3:16

then I start panicking about the upcoming

3:18

panic attack. And then I'm like, here we are.

3:20

Yeah. And I mean, the whole thing is, like, this

3:23

year has been really hard and, I

3:25

still can't do a lot of things

3:27

and it's been a really long recovery since the

3:29

surgery. Right. But the whole point was

3:31

so that I wouldn't collapse anymore.

3:34

And so then to feel like

3:36

I was gonna collapse or that

3:38

I had some stability was, like, more

3:40

triggering than when I have pain

3:43

or when I can't do things or when because,

3:45

like, I was, like, oh, I signed up for all that hard

3:47

part. Mhmm. But I did this all to avoid that

3:50

feeling. You had to have a similar feeling.

3:52

I got upset. No. Totally. That is

3:54

-- Mhmm. -- so that is exactly

3:56

it. I'm sure, like, that's really relatable

3:59

because we've

3:59

all

3:59

felt like, no, I did all of this just

4:02

to stop this one thing, and then

4:04

Even if that's not what's happening, if you feel

4:06

like it's similar to what's happening, you're

4:08

it's like, oh, man. Time

4:10

to fall apart. Yeah. So I have to

4:12

have a little cry. or big cry.

4:14

But then I felt better and I just, you know, I have

4:16

to remind myself it wasn't my patella

4:18

that moves. It was, you know, but I definitely

4:20

am gonna try to take it easy for

4:22

the Well, actually, already, I'm not

4:24

gonna work out for the next couple days because I'm

4:26

going away. So I

4:27

think that would be good. I gotta give it a little

4:29

rest. Oh, man. Did he come

4:31

to secret? I kept the secret for you guys

4:33

from out for hours. Oh my god. I

4:35

couldn't believe it. When

4:37

John woke up, what did he do? he just

4:39

sort of let me cry and Did

4:41

he say what happened? Well, I explained

4:43

what happened, and then I cried. And

4:45

then he he asked if it

4:47

was a dislocation, and I didn't

4:49

really clarify, but I think he figured out it wasn't.

4:51

because I mean, if I dislocate again after

4:53

the surgery, that's it. I'm

4:55

chopping the leg off. Like, I'm like,

4:58

that's like, I will be I

5:00

mean, I wouldn't have been able to, like, come today

5:02

if I just look at it. Right. But he

5:05

figured out that that it was a a buckle and

5:07

not a not a subluxation. Right? Can I

5:09

ask you a question about something that

5:11

I heard you guys talking about? You

5:13

and John? Why were you in my house?

5:15

Yeah.

5:15

When?

5:16

Or I was I talked to you

5:19

guys, like, get like, on Monday. Oh,

5:21

yeah. That's true. I was just goofing. Oh,

5:23

well, I was

5:23

like, truly, I

5:25

was like, you

5:26

don't remember. No. I know. You you were in my

5:28

ass. Yeah. He mentioned

5:31

something called AV and JV.

5:33

What

5:35

is that? I

5:37

only got a brief summary.

5:39

Okay. So like, one

5:41

of the things that's really nice about our relationship

5:44

is that we each have different strengths

5:46

or we each bring different things.

5:48

And so when he does something that

5:50

I would not be able to do, that's

5:52

called the JV. That's a John

5:54

value. And then when

5:56

I do something that he wouldn't do,

5:58

and I bring something new to their

5:59

relationship, that's called an AV, an Allison

6:02

Value. Yeah. He said it's so casually

6:04

in front of me. I don't know what it

6:06

was, but he was like, that's an AV. And I

6:08

was like, now

6:10

go on. What? I actually

6:12

really recommend that couples use this terminology

6:15

because it's a really nice way to feel appreciated

6:17

and to also like be able

6:19

to, like, show your value, be, like, okay,

6:21

I'm willing to do that because that's a real AV.

6:23

So, like, what did I teach him?

6:26

Like, when I when I certain things

6:28

will be, like, oh, like, if I'm out and, like,

6:30

we need something and he and I have,

6:32

like, a a hand wipe. Yeah.

6:34

That's an AV. I'm always looking at the

6:36

hand So he's got the stuff right back,

6:38

whereas, like, he takes out the trash.

6:40

That's a real JV. Yes. That's what

6:42

it was. He was taking out the track. Yeah.

6:44

And they were like,

6:45

that's a real JV. And I was like,

6:48

what? And he was like, oh, an an Alison

6:50

value and a John value. And I was like,

6:53

you fucking nervous. Yeah.

6:55

You know you're gonna use it now. I

6:58

do like it. I do like it. I

7:00

think that is something that maybe Mal and I

7:02

need to adopt. Like, is there

7:04

certain things that, like, you taught

7:06

Mal or that you've added to the relationship?

7:08

That's a that's a

7:09

GV?

7:11

money, mostly.

7:13

Right. Like, you're Well, you ask. Oh

7:15

my god. I

7:16

thought you meant money literacy, but you just

7:18

mean actual money. Yeah. But you know

7:20

what mal has? Ma'am is

7:22

like that Ma'am knows everything about

7:24

repairing stuff. Ma'am knows

7:26

what groceries we need. That's an

7:28

Ma'am. Are there so many MVs?

7:30

And then the I only have one GP.

7:33

they

7:34

And I better maintain that GP because

7:36

Mac's got all the MV's.

7:40

Well, this is just between us, a variety

7:42

show filled with heartfelt advice, ridiculous

7:44

games, and the brutalist honesty of all

7:46

time. We have an amazing show. We are

7:48

gonna be interviewing David Bizarro

7:51

all about puppeteering. I am

7:53

so excited. Just just AAA

7:55

spoiler for you guys. hot

7:57

puppet takes. It

7:59

was actually

7:59

so fascinating. Ficy puppet

8:02

takes. And later, we're

8:04

gonna be talking y'all about superstition. But

8:07

first, we have got to answer a

8:09

listener's question. And you know what

8:11

that means?

8:13

Hit it. International

8:16

question. International question.

8:19

International question.

8:22

Somewhere in Europe.

8:24

Very

8:26

mysterious. I

8:27

love it. Very mysterious. I like the opening

8:30

as well. Then I

8:31

danced. No. No. Of this person's

8:33

message. Oh. That's a real

8:35

bummer for me.

8:36

Okay. Somewhere in Europe says, hi,

8:38

old friends. Oh, hi there. I've been a

8:40

fan of you forever since

8:42

BuzzFeed. I always considered myself

8:44

more of an Alison than a Gabby

8:46

and found her content about straight

8:49

relationships and semi conservative

8:51

dreams of marriage while

8:53

acting as a queer ally, more

8:55

relatable as we have really grown up

8:57

together. I define as straight and

8:59

have only had relationships with met. I

9:01

recently eloped with a guy I met just weeks

9:03

before for citizenship reasons

9:05

and because I felt it was my big

9:07

chance at real love and a future. This

9:09

is juicy. He had mentioned that he

9:11

experimented sexually with men when he

9:13

was younger, which didn't bother me. He

9:15

is also an objectively terrible

9:17

dresser, mismatched baggy clothes, which

9:19

I chalked up to him being an indifferent man who

9:21

had never been interested in fashion. I

9:23

was determined to help him find his style and

9:26

dress and clothes that fit him better and

9:28

sent a better message to the world. Generalization,

9:31

straight girls love makeovers.

9:33

As our relationship has

9:35

progressed these last few months, he slowly

9:37

but surely revealed to me that he feels

9:39

more comfortable wearing women's clothing at

9:41

home. I have given him some of mine and

9:43

he loves it. He has never been so happy in his

9:45

traditional email clothes. I support him

9:47

on his journey and totally get that it's the twenty

9:49

first century and male fashion is

9:51

changing. I even showed him looks

9:53

from men like Harry Styles to show he's

9:55

not alone, and I have to admit it has been

9:57

challenging for me. because I don't, as necessarily

9:59

consider myself attracted to this aesthetic or

10:02

even gender identity. I think

10:04

he finds being traditionally masculine, overwhelming

10:06

in terms of pressure and responsibility

10:09

and I have had to shoulder a lot of those

10:11

values for our relationship. I'm

10:12

tired. Is it

10:13

transphobic to feel like maybe this

10:16

relationship isn't giving me what I want?

10:17

How normal is it that he just wants to wear

10:20

my clothes and women's clothes

10:22

rather than experimenting with more

10:24

tightly fitted men's wear because he needs

10:26

the escape? Thanks for everything,

10:28

grateful for you. Okay. So there's two things

10:30

going on here. Hi, everyone. Hi. I'm trans.

10:32

Okay. So here's two things that are

10:34

going on there. One

10:36

is that there is

10:38

no normal. So you said how normal

10:40

is it that he wants to wear my clothes and

10:43

women's clothes? There

10:44

is no normal.

10:45

there's that it doesn't and and honestly, it's

10:47

irrelevant. It doesn't matter if it's normal. It's what's

10:49

happening. Are

10:50

people feeling more comfortable to come

10:52

out and be more vocal and more public

10:54

about this kind of thing? Sure. But there

10:56

is no normal. It's just

10:58

a matter of like what's going on, you

11:00

know, in your relationship. Two,

11:02

I don't think you're transphobic. start

11:05

starting up top, I don't think you're transphobic.

11:07

Two

11:07

things stuck out to

11:09

me.

11:09

One is when you said, had

11:11

mentioned that he experimented sexually with men

11:13

when he was younger, which didn't bother

11:16

me. So let's

11:16

hold on to that for one moment. And

11:18

then also that you don't

11:20

necessarily find yourself attracted to

11:22

this aesthetic or gender identity. So

11:25

that's too. There are a lot of

11:27

narratives surrounding gender

11:29

fluidity and non normative gender

11:31

identities that

11:32

that have

11:33

to do with the partner,

11:36

not

11:36

minding, being

11:37

fine with. thinking

11:39

that it's okay, getting

11:41

through it, whatever it is. And

11:43

I think that you deserve

11:45

to be happy and you deserve to be

11:47

in a trip that you feel

11:49

comfortable

11:49

with, and so does he?

11:52

I think that there is more out

11:54

there for each of you, and I think that there is

11:56

more out there for him

11:58

to be

11:58

with someone who not just

12:00

that it doesn't bother them or

12:02

not just that it's you're

12:04

not necessarily attracted

12:06

to, but rather someone for

12:08

whom that is sexy. Someone

12:10

for whom

12:11

they are they're celebrating. You don't have

12:14

to settle for it doesn't

12:16

bother me or it's fine with me

12:18

or I'm tolerating it. You

12:20

can reach for, they

12:22

love it. they find it so attractive.

12:24

They celebrate this aspect of

12:26

me. And I think that's something that a lot of

12:28

trans people deal with

12:30

in relationships where they

12:33

say, well, I'll just be with this person

12:35

and they don't mind. And I

12:37

wanna challenge us

12:39

to not just

12:41

be with people who don't mind, but

12:43

to be with people who This

12:46

is a bonus. this is something

12:48

they love. They celebrate. They

12:50

they admire. They

12:52

cherish. And

12:53

I think for cis people

12:55

too, I think you don't have to

12:57

put

12:57

yourself in this place of saying,

12:59

well, am I a bad person if?

13:02

Am I transphobic if? I

13:03

think you

13:04

also need

13:06

to be with someone

13:08

for for whom

13:10

you are

13:10

not just tolerating. or you

13:12

are not just putting up with or you are not

13:15

just loving them despite,

13:17

but rather loving them

13:18

because.

13:19

or loving them for one

13:22

reason as such or loving them

13:24

without it even entering your mind.

13:25

And in this email, I

13:27

hear a lot

13:28

of despite. I hear

13:30

a lot of It's not

13:33

so bad. I hear a lot of You

13:35

know what I mean? Like, I think

13:36

also, you know, there's just

13:39

a lot of connection with book

13:41

and clothing to sexuality

13:44

just because he has

13:46

like, been with men sexually doesn't really

13:48

have anything to do with his gender

13:50

identity in any way, and also,

13:52

like, you know, the the traditional

13:54

masculine values, again,

13:56

like, doesn't really have to do with

13:58

his sexuality or

13:59

gender. It could all it kind of all works in

14:02

the same pot, but I think it's

14:04

getting conflated here in this email in a way

14:06

that, like, I don't know that he

14:08

would

14:08

potentially conflate them.

14:10

So

14:11

though I just

14:12

think that people deserve there's

14:14

this whole thing of, like, cis people leaving

14:16

trans people for transitioning. And I just think

14:19

that It's

14:19

more complicated than that in that in general.

14:22

People deserve to be with people who

14:24

are not with them despite something, but

14:26

rather who are with them

14:27

in celebration of everything that they

14:30

are. That's my TED Talk.

14:32

I have nothing to add. I thought that was

14:34

beautiful. Really? Yeah. That was really

14:36

good. I have no I have no

14:38

AV to add. Wow. So that was

14:40

all GV. Wow.

14:42

I was thinking about it a lot since you

14:45

sent this question. because I was

14:47

thinking about, like, we we too often we

14:49

go, well, this transphobic, this this, blah blah

14:51

blah. Well, like, It

14:52

really is just about not

14:54

feeling like you have to grovel for

14:56

scraps or

14:57

tolerance. or

14:59

even acceptance when

15:01

what you should have is celebration.

15:05

The end and your your

15:07

relationships are

15:09

personal,

15:11

not political, common or not

15:13

political. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's

15:15

ultimately a decision between two people.

15:17

I feel like. And he

15:19

deserves someone who for whom

15:21

this is, like, wildly attractive and

15:23

sexy and interesting and and

15:25

and

15:26

not a burden.

15:28

And

15:29

if you're trans,

15:31

that's out there. And it took me a

15:33

long time even as

15:34

a poly person to believe that.

15:36

And it is

15:36

out there. I promise promise promise it

15:39

is. Well, I'm

15:39

I I think that that probably

15:42

helps And if you wanna submit an

15:44

international question, you can send it to just

15:46

between us pod at g mail dot com. That's

15:48

just between us P0D at g

15:50

mail dot com. Up next, you've got an

15:52

exciting interview with our highly esteemed guest,

15:54

David Bizarro. Stay tuned.

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18:26

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18:28

most scandalous, most

18:31

controversial segment known to

18:33

all podcasting.

18:35

Tough

18:35

questions. This week on the show,

18:37

we have David

18:37

Bizarro, a first generation Latinx

18:40

American actor and an Emmy Award

18:42

winning puppeteer. David

18:44

has worked with The Muppets, Sesame

18:46

Street, the Jim Henson Company, sci

18:48

fi, and the flaming lips just to name a

18:50

few.

18:50

Holy crap.

18:54

Oh, my god. First of all,

18:56

is your last name really Bizarro or is that

18:58

stage name? It is

18:59

really Bizarro. That is my last

19:02

name.

19:02

come up up a tier legally. My

19:04

own

19:04

my only options were puppeteer,

19:07

Rody, and magician. That's

19:08

it. It's never too late to add the other

19:10

two. You know,

19:11

I did go on the road a couple times with

19:13

the lips, so, like, the culture is not so bad. Maybe

19:15

I could do that at some

19:16

point. Yeah. And I also really

19:19

like magicians. So I'm always

19:21

constantly pushing people to get into

19:23

magic. Well,

19:23

maybe I can do a magic trick at some point

19:25

because I did learn magic at one point in

19:28

my life. it's it's it's it's painful. Okay.

19:31

So why did

19:31

you wanna be a puppeteer? How did

19:33

you even know that was a thing you could

19:35

do? So I didn't know it was a thing I could do. I

19:38

actually grew up with

19:40

no interests in puppetry except

19:42

maybe watching it on TV right now and again.

19:45

when

19:45

I was young, I my

19:47

aunt tells the story quite often

19:49

how, like, I was four sitting in the back of

19:51

her car and I was like, cracking jokes. she

19:53

says I was making people laugh, I don't remember.

19:55

And she was like, she was like, oh, David, let

19:57

me tell a joke. And I went,

19:59

no, auntie. I'm

20:01

the funny man. And since then,

20:04

I feel like I've always

20:06

wanted to perform and make people laugh. I

20:08

just didn't have any concept of

20:11

what that meant or how to do it. You know,

20:13

because when I was growing up, you

20:15

know, my mom came here from El Salvador

20:18

and, like, when you're the kid of what

20:20

my friends and I call, like, parents of the old

20:22

country -- Sure. -- we tend to

20:24

be told, like, you gotta be, you know, a

20:26

lawyer. You gotta be a

20:28

doctor, you gotta have a trade. Like, my mom's thing was

20:30

all about, you gotta have a trade.

20:31

And so I was

20:33

pursuing acting, but I was also, like, trying to learn

20:35

stuff on the side as well. and it

20:37

wasn't until I was twenty eight that

20:40

I actually considered puppetry

20:42

to be something that I could do with

20:44

my life.

20:45

Wow. Why? Yeah.

20:47

So I had just

20:49

finished up working with the flaming

20:52

lips. I'd worked with

20:52

them for about four years doing backing videos,

20:55

music videos, toys, documentaries,

20:57

like all kinds of stuff. And

20:59

I wasn't quite sure what I

21:00

wanted to do, but I knew I wanted to do

21:03

something creative. And I was

21:04

like, well, if I pursue any new crafts, I've gotta, like,

21:06

get paid for it. So I was watching

21:09

on I was watching these videos this company

21:11

made of these

21:13

commercials with puppets. And I'm like, this is really

21:15

cool. This is a medium I've never played with.

21:17

This is interesting to me.

21:19

And I emailed a potential client. I

21:21

said, hey, you should have commercials like

21:23

this. And

21:23

they wrote back, this is incredible. I

21:25

love this. Yes. Can you do it? I was like, of

21:27

course, I can. Yes. I

21:29

think I am the number one

21:31

puppet man. And so I

21:34

lied. I absolutely lied.

21:36

And they know this. I've I've told them

21:38

since then, but I

21:40

very quickly had to learn how to

21:42

write for puppets and build puppets and perform

21:45

them and I did not know what I was doing at

21:47

all. I produced all of it, I think, in, like,

21:49

a week or a little over a week is when I got

21:51

all that altogether and then

21:53

shot it. And looking back on the

21:55

commercial, now having done this

21:57

for about ten years now, I

21:59

can tell that I didn't know what I

22:01

was doing. like everything that I did

22:03

performance wise was wrong. The

22:05

puppets were made of hot glue, which is a

22:07

big no no when you're like making

22:09

TV puppets. I it's something that I don't

22:11

really show people because I'm like, oh, it's really

22:13

cringey. It's You know what? You

22:14

wouldn't have started if you felt like you had

22:16

to be the highest caliber.

22:18

that's the big difference between people that

22:21

actually do and people that, like, think

22:23

about doing it. Is that the people that

22:25

actually do are the ones who are

22:27

just, like,

22:27

Good enough. Good

22:30

enough. Like, I

22:30

have to start somewhere. And so,

22:32

like, that's the actually, I think the the

22:35

creative mentality that I relate to

22:37

and think is the most successful. Yeah.

22:38

I came up before

22:41

working professionally when I was in college. I was

22:43

in a few indie bands. And, like,

22:45

the whole concept of, like, being in a

22:47

band is just, like, if you don't need it or if you

22:49

don't have it, you don't need it. And

22:53

that's how you produce your stuff and that was really

22:55

drilled in when I was working for the flaming

22:57

lips. Their whole thing was like, especially

22:59

with we mostly worked directly with

23:01

Wayne because he's very much the visionary of their

23:03

visuals. But he would

23:05

often say, like, you know, oh, we don't have that thing.

23:07

Well, we can't buy it. How can we do it?

23:09

because we have to do this thing. It's like, okay.

23:11

Well, let's figure it out. And we would grab

23:13

stuff and just try to make it happen. Even

23:15

to the point where, like,

23:18

we did a a

23:20

video of him screen printing a

23:22

poster with his own blood. And,

23:24

like, we just we needed to make

23:26

something that was cool for the fans

23:28

to buy and to, like, come to

23:30

a special show where they were trying to raise some money.

23:32

And we were, like and I I don't know how

23:34

the idea came up, but, like, Wayne

23:36

was, like, gray print, a a poster with my own blood. That's

23:38

kinda crazy, and we did it. And we

23:40

documented it, and it was really fun and cool.

23:42

But I apply that throughout everything I

23:44

do creatively and Even

23:46

at home, you know, sometimes Yeah.

23:48

I will oftentimes, when I'm

23:50

like, my kid's sick

23:51

right now, and the first thing I did was

23:53

draw some blood to try to, like,

23:55

you know, it's sort of ward through with a

23:57

little bit of witchcraft. I'm wicking, you

23:59

know, and so

24:00

we would do that. Wayne coin is

24:02

such an interesting person

24:05

because you're, like, they

24:07

do stuff with puppets. Don't they? They've

24:09

done, like, tons of They

24:11

were going to do a

24:13

Broadway

24:13

show that featured puppets that they were

24:15

-- Right. -- they were collaborating. This they

24:17

first started talking to this puppeteer in New

24:20

York before I even thought

24:22

a puppetry. and

24:23

it ended up not working out. I

24:25

don't really know why I'd left before the whole

24:27

thing was, you know,

24:29

moving forward, but they were gonna do a giant

24:32

pink robot. that was gonna, like,

24:34

walk around and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They

24:36

were gonna do it. But they do something similar, I

24:38

think, in the live show now. Like, they have a big

24:40

inflatable pink robot now. Yeah.

24:41

That's kind of their thing. And

24:43

so

24:43

It's kind of their thing. This is a

24:46

big deal.

24:48

I've been why can't you use hot glue

24:50

in a TV puppet? Yeah.

24:53

Great question. You can

24:55

use

24:55

hot glue if

24:57

you want to, you can absolutely do it

24:59

and it'll make up puppet. The

25:01

reason that we don't do it for TV puppets,

25:03

like for instance, when you're building a

25:06

puppet for like Sesame Street, you

25:08

use a type of glue called

25:10

barge. It's a it's a heavy duty

25:12

rubber cement that's used to actually glue

25:14

the soles of your shoes, tie

25:16

your shoe. And the reason we

25:18

use that is because it's really really

25:20

strong and but it's also

25:22

very flexible. and hot glue is not

25:24

flexible. And it also adds

25:26

unnecessary weight. And when we're on set,

25:28

if something happens, like, like, for

25:30

instance, Bert has a MEK.

25:32

in his face that makes his eyebrow, you know, go up and down.

25:34

And if we if it breaks, like, if something

25:36

in the inside, the internals breaks, we have

25:38

to get into that quickly

25:41

fix it and get them back out on set. And

25:43

the barbed rubber cement is heat

25:45

reactive. And so if we heat it up,

25:47

it

25:47

peels right apart. and

25:50

then we can get inside, fix it,

25:52

and then just push it back together,

25:54

and it reseels itself. And

25:56

that's why we use barge instead of other

25:58

types of glues. But it's

25:59

also very highly toxic. So

26:02

you have to

26:02

wear a respirator and do it in a room or

26:04

that's ventilator, go outside and do

26:07

it. Yeah. It can cause cancer. Holy shit. I was like,

26:09

this sounds too good to be true. Oh, right.

26:11

It is. It

26:12

is. There's a

26:14

real downside. So

26:16

how did you go from

26:17

crafting your own puppets for this

26:19

one commercial to learning how to do,

26:21

like, industry standard level puppeteering?

26:24

So I started

26:26

by teaching myself. And I just

26:28

googled as much as

26:30

I could. I was on Pinterest just

26:32

trying to see what people are posting, you

26:34

know, because people on the Internet, they love

26:36

to share what they know because they kinda most

26:39

of them wanna flex, how much

26:41

they know, And so that's great that was great for me and

26:43

great for me with anything I'm trying to learn because

26:45

then I just see what they're doing and I take it and I

26:47

go, okay, great. That's how they do this, that's I do that.

26:49

Yeah. But as time went on and I

26:51

was building for myself,

26:54

my I'm kinda jumping ahead a little bit, so I'm gonna

26:56

backtrack just a touch. My wife was

26:58

moving to New York City. we

27:00

first met. And we we

27:02

talk about that story and it's funny to us

27:04

because, like, we had no intention of, like, having

27:06

a serious relationship. But then we ended up moving to New York

27:08

and, like, living together for

27:11

ten years and then

27:13

got married after, I

27:15

think, like, four years.

27:17

And so when we were when she told

27:19

me I'm moving to New York, I was doing motion graphics

27:21

and visual effects the time. And I was like, I'm moving to New York, I'm

27:23

moving to LA, I'm moving to London. hate LA. I

27:25

don't really like living there. I have

27:27

a bad past with it. That's really what

27:29

it is. But I was interested

27:31

in New York, interested in London. And

27:34

she was like, well, I'm going to New York for

27:36

a film that she produced. She was like, I'm gonna

27:38

go up there for screening. I was like, great. I'll go a week ahead

27:40

of you and check it out too, I think. I

27:42

really found love about it. I was like York's beautiful. I really love

27:44

the energy here. This is where I wanna go.

27:46

And so I was like, I'll move too and we'll get

27:48

our own places. and, you

27:50

know, that didn't happen. But

27:53

moving to New York, I was

27:54

I we and I'm sure you guys have done

27:56

this before or listeners have done this

27:59

before where you move to an area with

28:01

someone and then you're like, it would

28:03

be cheaper rent wise

28:05

if we just like to live

28:07

together. And so we just did that. Like,

28:09

that was our initial logic, but I think in

28:11

the back of our minds we were like, Yeah. I

28:13

really like you.

28:14

How long had

28:16

you known each other?

28:18

Yeah.

28:20

How long? We knew each other

28:23

for not very long at all. We had been

28:25

dating for maybe two

28:28

months or three months before you moved in together.

28:30

But that's a whole that's a whole other

28:33

thing. See, Here's okay. Alright.

28:35

Here's the deal. Her house got

28:37

infected with fleas because there was a crack

28:39

on her wall. And at

28:41

the time, we both were very much like, you live in your space. I live in

28:43

my space. But she had nowhere to go. Like, she

28:46

couldn't like, her only family

28:48

was her mama up in Tulsa.

28:50

We were living in Oklahoma City at the time. And she was like, I can't

28:52

go to Tulsa because it's too far from work. And I

28:54

said, well, just come stay with me until the fleas get

28:56

taken care of. and then

28:58

she just never left. It just

29:01

worked out. Like immediately, just like

29:03

the way that we function as

29:05

a unit. worked. Yeah. And we're like, well, just

29:07

keep going until it doesn't, and

29:09

then we'll

29:10

reevaluate because

29:12

our relationship's a lot like a tax attorney

29:14

office. We just evaluate.

29:17

Yeah. Of course. That's right. Every quarter,

29:19

we reevaluate. So

29:21

in New York, I

29:23

very quickly was like, puppetry is really interesting to me. I

29:25

wanna continue pursuing this because

29:28

it's tapping

29:28

into my performer self.

29:32

When I was young, I was an

29:34

actor and really got burned

29:36

by the acting industry by

29:38

being technically ambiguous. it

29:40

never quite worked out for me because everyone was like,

29:42

you're not enough of this or you're not enough for that

29:44

or, hey, are you Hawaiian? No.

29:46

Okay. Go away. Great.

29:48

So puppetry

29:50

was something that was really

29:52

easily accessible to me and

29:55

because I

29:55

was an animator, the weird character side

29:57

of it spoke to me as well. So when I was

29:59

in New York, I

29:59

was like, okay, who do I talk to?

30:02

and I went to a New York puppy girl meeting

30:04

and, like, met puppeteers there,

30:06

made some friends who were just starting out

30:08

in puppetry. I met Kathy Kim,

30:11

who we've

30:11

been having a real, like, heart real

30:13

big heart moments for each other lately

30:16

because she just became

30:18

the first Korean puppet on

30:20

Sesame Street. And her

30:22

and I had met at

30:24

the puppetry guild like ten years

30:26

ago

30:26

and were like, yeah, I'm kinda interested in

30:28

puppetry. She was like, yeah, you know, I kinda am

30:31

too. We both were starting in our, like, late third in

30:33

our late like, she was in her

30:35

early thirties. I was in my late twenties. And so we

30:37

both were like, oh, what do even do

30:39

in here. You know, we both work in TV production. Like, what is

30:41

this? But now we're like finding each other,

30:43

you know, really growing.

30:46

But I keep going

30:48

off on tangents, but I

30:50

started meeting people that became

30:52

my mentors. Folks who were working at

30:54

Sesame and folks who are stage

30:56

on Broadway that would just meet with

30:57

me and share their knowledge. In New

31:00

York, you know, there's so many

31:02

different types of puppetry and so

31:04

many people performing it

31:06

and they want to share their

31:08

knowledge with you to

31:10

keep the art going because in in

31:12

a lot of ways, some forms of the art

31:14

is dying. Like even building

31:16

puppets, the way that people build puppets at

31:18

the Jim Henson shop in New York is

31:21

not the way puppets are built everywhere else.

31:23

And it's a very special specific way

31:26

that may go away

31:28

because no one's really learning from the folks in

31:30

New York. But anyways, I ended

31:32

up getting to a point where I just needed to learn

31:35

more and grow. And my friend, Liz Hara,

31:37

was like, well, I'm leaving the

31:39

Henson company. why

31:40

don't I introduce you to them? And I

31:42

met with them. I brought my little bag of

31:44

puppets in there. I was like Look at my cool puppy. I

31:46

made this one. I made

31:48

this one. And as I'm showing, I might look to the left, and then there's,

31:50

like, you know, Oscar the Grouch. I'm,

31:53

like, look, it's cool too. And

31:56

so they

31:57

were like, you know, you're really interesting, but we

31:59

don't have a place for you right now. We'll let you know if we

32:01

do. And a month later, they called they, like,

32:03

emailed me at six AM hey, can

32:05

you come in today? because we had a

32:07

spot open. Can you please come work with

32:09

us? And that started a

32:12

sort of like a contracting work of just working with him on and

32:14

off again for the next, like, I think, three or four

32:17

four years, I think. And I was

32:19

working on Sesame Street as

32:21

a puppet wrangler. I was building

32:23

and refurbishing puppets for them.

32:25

And I got to watch the

32:27

performers perform. And I really was

32:29

like, that's where I wanna be.

32:31

I wanna be on that side of the camera

32:33

performing. And I just made

32:35

it known. Like, with my

32:37

background having to constantly,

32:39

like, create my own opportunities or

32:41

make my own path because they

32:43

aren't always readily available for me. That's what

32:45

I did with the with the puppetry. And

32:47

I just started sending random Facebook

32:50

messages to lead puppeteers on Sesame

32:52

Street saying, hey, I'm

32:54

David. Like, I'd love to talk to you about

32:56

puppetry. Can I buy you a drink? And they were nice enough to say, like,

32:58

yeah, sure. Let's meet up and go, you know, have a

33:00

drink and talk. And I just started building these

33:02

relationships with them. And

33:04

now they're my colleagues, and

33:06

it's really amazing and weird.

33:08

What are people

33:09

misunderstanding

33:11

about this like art form or,

33:13

like, if someone was, like, what are some of

33:16

the tips or things, you know, that

33:18

you have to do or know as

33:20

a performer for puppets. Like, what are

33:22

the mistakes? You know what I mean? Like, what

33:24

give us the give us the inside track.

33:27

Absolutely.

33:27

That's a really good question. And that's something

33:30

that a lot of beginning puppeteers, I

33:32

think, don't ask themselves. The

33:34

biggest thing with puppetry is

33:37

you

33:37

you I

33:38

think this is true for any creative outlet.

33:42

You are not a single thing. You can't

33:44

just say, I wanna be a painter and

33:46

then just paint. you know, you have to, like,

33:48

learn how to draw. You have

33:50

to go out and just look at the world

33:52

and experience it and understand it.

33:54

and then

33:54

you have to form your own opinions about the

33:57

craft. And with puppetry, it's the same

33:59

way. You can't just say, oh yeah, I'm a

34:01

puppeteer and put a puppet on and

34:03

just start performing and only

34:05

focus on the technical side of

34:07

puppetry. You also can't put on

34:09

a puppet and only focus on the

34:11

acting side of it. you have to

34:13

focus on both of it. I think, for the most part,

34:15

most young puppeteers focus too much

34:17

on the technical side, And

34:19

they're like like one thing that often gets talked about

34:21

is lip sync, which is when someone puts their

34:24

hand up and making their voice match

34:26

the hand. While that's

34:27

really great, if you

34:29

look at one of my favorite

34:31

puppeteers from the Henson era, which

34:34

is Jerry Nelson, his lip

34:36

sync is not

34:36

the best. And oftentimes, it's terrible on the early

34:39

puppet show. And but

34:41

his

34:41

his acting

34:42

is so good

34:45

and his character building is so great

34:47

that that little bit of, like,

34:49

technical fallout you forgive because you're like,

34:51

but this character is so believable and I'm connecting

34:53

with them. So for someone coming up, I would

34:56

say, like, you know, watch the

34:58

videos on the technical aspects

35:00

of it but

35:02

also learn to be an actor. And

35:04

don't learn to be a

35:06

puppeteer actor. Go to

35:08

acting classes. that'll really

35:10

sharpen you. I studied

35:12

at HB Studio, which is

35:14

a studio in New York that

35:16

was founded by Oda Hagen, one

35:18

of the Right. I mean, acting coach. Huge. Yeah.

35:20

One of the best acting coaches out there

35:22

and that working

35:24

there really taught me how to

35:27

find a method that works for me and how to find

35:29

my characters and find their backstory. And I

35:32

learned once I was there, I learned that one of

35:34

my idols, carbon ash bar, who

35:36

plays Rosita, That's where she

35:38

studied. And she's one

35:40

of the best puppeteers out there,

35:42

and she was the last puppeteer hired by

35:44

Jen Henson. So focusing on the

35:45

acting is so crucial when

35:47

you're a puppeteer. Also, just

35:50

learning physicality

35:52

because as a puppeteer, we're trying

35:54

to reflect life. That's really what

35:56

we're doing. Like, this is not just,

35:58

you know, gonna be

35:59

a body of a puppet. We have to, like, make you believe that

36:02

he's walking or that she's dancing or that the cat is moving like a

36:04

cat. We have to make you with the trick you

36:06

into believing it's real. And the only way we

36:08

can do that is through

36:10

physicality. So taking

36:12

dance or taking a creative movement

36:14

class helps you understand your

36:16

own body and how to exist in it

36:18

and then see other movements and go, okay, that's

36:20

how I recreate that. Now how do I

36:22

put it up in my arm? How do I

36:24

make it exist here? Right. And

36:26

then the very last thing I would say for a

36:28

puppeteer is Even if you

36:30

aren't good at building puppets, learn

36:32

how to build a puppet. Understand

36:34

how they're built. Because when you get on

36:36

set and someone hands you a puppet

36:38

and it because

36:38

they have to fit your have If you

36:40

can feel that something's

36:42

not right, you won't be able

36:44

to communicate it

36:46

to the person who needs to do the fixing of that puppet if you don't know how

36:48

puppets are built. And I I often

36:51

find myself on set where they'll

36:54

hand me the puppet. I'll go, yeah, yeah, yeah, if you could just change this and like alter

36:56

that and here's kinda what I would do, they can

36:58

go off and do it. But then someone I'm

37:00

working with is like, yeah, it I

37:02

don't know why, but I can't like I can't really make the mouth open as wide

37:05

as I want to, and

37:05

it's it's kind of uncomfortable. I'm not quite sure what

37:08

to

37:10

do. Like, that's not totally helpful for the

37:12

person who has to go then make those changes.

37:14

So if you're coming up, don't

37:15

just focus

37:18

on technique. Also, focus on acting. Try dance. Maybe

37:20

go for a walk and watch people and see

37:22

how they move.

37:24

And also, Learn how to build

37:26

puppets even if you're bad at it, so you can at least

37:28

communicate what it is you need. I

37:30

imagine it's

37:30

not just like traditional acting,

37:32

but also like voice thing. Right?

37:34

because you're doing a lot of different characters voices and,

37:37

like, you know, that's something that

37:39

to me has always felt

37:41

like back in the day when I was like doing sketch and whatever

37:43

it was always like, oh, SNL is the dream,

37:46

but I was always like, well, I can't

37:48

do impressions. I can't

37:50

change my voice and my I

37:52

can't take on other Or even

37:54

know what voice can't even know what -- Yeah. --

37:56

or anything from or even just having

37:58

a variety of voices or the ability

37:59

to do impression, like so how do you

38:02

build like, is that something people just either

38:04

have, like, a natural affinity for, or is

38:06

it something you develop? It's both. You can have

38:07

a natural affinity for it and you

38:10

can learn how to do

38:12

these voices.

38:14

I had a natural affinity for it, but mostly for accents when I was growing

38:16

up. And I think that's just from being around a

38:19

lot of different accents. But the

38:22

getting more

38:25

developed characterization was something that I

38:27

had to learn. And what I

38:29

kept hearing voice actors

38:32

talk about was altering their face to get

38:34

the sound out and

38:36

to change

38:36

sort of like the depth or

38:39

more I'm trying to think what the word is, but, like,

38:41

yeah, just more I'll say it again, depth

38:43

and character. But

38:44

it was, you know, learning that

38:47

really opened my eyes and it reminded me of

38:49

learn when I was in a theater learning how

38:51

to do accents because you're taught

38:53

how to, like, place your tongue and how

38:55

to, like, change the place doing diphthongs or t sounds.

38:58

And in voice acting,

39:00

it's it's kind of the same thing. So

39:03

I went to the gym the the gym headset company held

39:05

a workshop. It was basically like

39:08

puppetry summer camp and they had

39:10

like thirty nine puppeteers

39:12

come out and they were teaching them their style of puppetry. And also

39:14

invited out Bob Bergin who does

39:16

he's a voice actor that does porky

39:19

the pig and, like, just

39:21

tons and tons of characters. How are

39:23

you not so starstruck by

39:25

everything happening?

39:26

And I'm like, god. I'd be like

39:28

I think the pain I don't know. I

39:30

let's blame the ADHD. That's what we'll do. I just I don't have one.

39:33

ask for the groaches over there. I'll be like, oh, ask

39:35

for the groaches over there. Like, they're not even

39:37

real. He's totally empty. I'm

39:40

just like, I'm so proud, sir. Like Yeah.

39:42

I honestly don't know.

39:45

My wife just starts really

39:47

easy, but they know. It's

39:49

a funny thing. Like, I won't go on a tangent, but, like, yeah, my

39:52

my wife gets starstruck, and I don't. And

39:54

sometimes she's just like, how how are

39:56

you not trying. You're not human. It's

39:58

fucking human, you know.

39:59

Yeah. Yeah. But it's our soul in

40:02

our heart.

40:02

they

40:04

really, really are. So Bob Bergin at the workshop,

40:06

which was really rad. The the focus

40:08

it was a diversity and inclusivity work.

40:11

shop. And so it was like all these different people from different backgrounds.

40:14

And Bob Bergin taught two

40:16

days. The first day was just like

40:18

him talking about voice acting

40:20

theory and and all that.

40:21

And then he handed out

40:24

scripts or he let us choose a script and

40:26

we went back to our to our

40:28

dorms and we worked on

40:29

a character and then we

40:30

then presented the character to him in front of the

40:33

class and he would give us notes. And

40:36

what I really latched on to what he was

40:38

saying was because

40:39

I can I can change the picture of my

40:41

voice and the tone

40:44

really easily, but getting

40:46

something just a little bit different than

40:48

what, like, the other person is doing was always kind of a

40:50

mystery. But he talked about, like, covering your

40:52

teeth with your upper lip or, like, you

40:54

know, just

40:56

just excluding my jaw and talking, like, was my

40:58

own voice already

40:58

makes me sound like I have something else

41:00

going on? Like, that's just strange.

41:03

or

41:03

pushing it back and making me talk

41:05

that way. And

41:06

the character that I did ended

41:08

up becoming

41:09

a voice for a character that I do on my

41:11

own for my own stuff I

41:13

came out and I came up with, like, a eater specialist who's from

41:15

Texas. And my father-in-law,

41:17

my father-in-law is

41:19

from West Texas. And he,

41:21

you

41:21

know, he saw a talk like this, and he's very,

41:24

you know, short or slow spoken,

41:26

and he's just

41:26

done that. That's so k?

41:28

That's all. Right? That's fine. And I was that's interesting. I'm gonna

41:31

raise

41:31

the energy a little bit and I'm

41:33

gonna cover my upper lip and just kinda

41:35

see

41:35

what that does. And

41:38

suddenly,

41:38

he kind of became like this. And this is the voice he became. And

41:40

I just thought, well, this is a very interesting person.

41:42

And he's like, well, hi. My name is

41:45

Gary. I'm a weed eater specialist. And

41:47

I just know everything about anything when it comes to

41:50

wait eight years. Now she got the X25

41:52

hundred, you got the 2299 and

41:54

you got RIOB thirty six. I love thatRIOB

41:56

thirty six because it's electric and not gas.

41:58

Now ask me why that's important.

41:59

That's important

42:02

because

42:02

And I just like, you

42:04

know, I really loved this character, and

42:06

so I did the

42:07

voice for the

42:10

class and I started

42:12

applying it to what

42:14

I finding character. Now where

42:16

the contrast of that is

42:18

is when you

42:20

do facial like gymnastics to create a voice,

42:22

it can be difficult to

42:24

maintain that when you're performing a puppet.

42:26

So when you're performing a puppet, you gotta put your arm up

42:28

in the

42:30

air. And you've gotta, like, usually kinda hunch over like

42:32

this because you're looking down at a monitor. And already,

42:34

it's it's you can see it's like crunching my

42:36

vocal cords. It's like collapsing them.

42:39

and it's also kinda restricting my jaw a

42:41

little bit. But if I I found that

42:43

when I put my upper lip

42:45

over my teeth, it makes it hard for me to breathe through

42:47

my nose. Oh my god. And it becomes

42:50

this

42:50

whole horrible thing. So

42:53

now I do Jerry without the upper lip

42:56

because I just get to a point where I'm

42:58

like, I cannot

43:00

continue.

43:02

But Shortly

43:02

after doing the Jim Henson workshop, I ended up

43:04

connecting with a guy who

43:07

I

43:07

honestly never thought

43:08

I would meet and it's still wild that

43:12

He's one of the few folks where I'm like, oh my

43:13

god. I met this person and I got to work with him. Bill

43:16

Loretta, who plays Pepe de

43:18

Prawn, and Bobo de Bear,

43:20

and like Rolf the dog on

43:22

the Muppets. Him and

43:24

I, last year, I got

43:26

to meet him and and talk with him and

43:28

learn from him. And his approach to puppetry

43:30

is just straight up method

43:32

acting. Like, he went to

43:34

Sanford's school out

43:36

in LA. and

43:38

that's where he learned. He learned from Sanford

43:40

himself and he he calls him Sandy and tells

43:42

all these beautiful stories about

43:44

him, but when I was learning

43:46

from him, he was I would, you know,

43:48

kinda dial a character sometimes. He's like, wait.

43:50

Wait. Where are they grounded? And he was

43:52

starting to, like, pull me back. Like, letting

43:54

me

43:54

do the characterization,

43:56

but also saying like, let's make it

43:58

a little bit more real and

43:59

ground the character.

44:02

And

44:02

I'm now

44:03

finding this this

44:05

place

44:05

where I can sort of like ride

44:07

a dial. Right? where

44:09

it can be really straightforward and it can just

44:12

be a character that talks like this and that's

44:14

his voice and it's just my voice a

44:16

little bit deeper. or he's got a little

44:18

bit of an accent. He's just sort of in here, and

44:20

that's where his voice is. He's sort of

44:22

believable, but he's still from

44:24

somewhere specific.

44:25

and Lord just thrown up real crazy and making

44:27

just absolutely insane and

44:30

wild, which I really

44:31

love and that it's fun, but not

44:34

every character calls

44:36

for something that's dialed up to

44:38

eleven. Right. You know, Bobo the

44:40

Bear is such a

44:42

subdued character

44:43

it's pretty much Bill's voice just a little

44:46

bit deeper. And, you

44:48

know, that but that's also, like, kinda what makes him

44:50

amazing in hilarious is he's

44:52

just grounded. Right.

44:54

We're gonna take a quick

44:54

break for ads, but then we'll be right

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So

46:28

I have a question, and this might get into some puppetry

46:30

hot tea. Oh, welcome

46:32

back to puppetry hot

46:36

tea. Wait. We talk about

46:38

the drama, the scandals of Well,

46:40

it's not scandalous opinion. Okay.

46:42

It's alcohol. Alright. What do you got? What do you

46:44

got? Okay. So

46:44

I'm a huge fan of practical effects. I

46:48

love I

46:48

love seventies and eighties

46:50

practical effects,

46:53

especially horror practical effects, the puppets

46:55

involved

46:55

in Jurassic Park, the

46:58

puppets involved in the thing, the

47:00

puppets involved

47:02

in alien and predator and all that

47:04

kind of stuff. That that is a

47:06

dying situation. All of

47:08

these sort of people who were legends and who

47:10

worked in that space, like, now it's

47:13

all CGI. They don't really,

47:15

like, employ or take

47:17

the time to like,

47:18

celebrate or give jobs to these types

47:21

of of puppeteers in

47:23

these studio films. how

47:25

do you

47:25

feel about that? Do you think that

47:28

that's a huge mistake? You

47:30

know, what what are we missing

47:32

when we don't have these

47:34

sort of amazing

47:35

genius practical effects

47:37

people working on on films. Yeah.

47:39

I think that

47:40

it's really important to

47:43

not forget about practical effects. I love

47:45

practical effects. And when I was a kid, my

47:47

father

47:48

during the good years, we

47:52

would we would do practical effects things with each other. Like,

47:54

he, at one point, made me a ninja

47:56

turtles, like, latex mask.

47:58

And we would, like, do castings of our

48:00

hands and then, like, break the

48:02

fingers off and paint blood on them. You know,

48:04

like, we

48:05

I've really have a a deep

48:07

appreciation and love for practical I

48:09

was a huge Stanley or not Stanley Stanley Winston

48:11

fan -- Mhmm. -- when I was a kid.

48:13

But I'm also a fan of visual

48:16

effects and CG

48:18

animation. I worked in visual effects for, oh,

48:20

man, I don't know how long, like, for a

48:22

while, maybe seven years, but I was I was

48:24

working there for quite some

48:26

time. And and I

48:28

have a really big appreciation for it, and I understand the work and

48:30

the artistry that goes into it. With that said,

48:32

I think that

48:34

whatever method services

48:36

your story. That's the method that you should use. And

48:39

sometimes, it's

48:40

it's all visual effects. Like, toy

48:42

story is all CG. Right. And

48:46

it's a beautiful amazing film. But then there's other

48:48

films where it's mostly

48:50

practical effects and that that's

48:52

really incredible. I feel that

48:54

the the best example of a good

48:56

balance of both is the movie

48:58

Jurassic Park. There is -- Yeah. --

49:00

absolute balance. within

49:02

what they're doing. The original.

49:04

Yes. The very first one. What they're doing

49:06

now is just like crazy madness. And it

49:08

doesn't

49:08

look good. it doesn't and

49:10

oftentimes doesn't, like, hold

49:11

up against the original Jurassic

49:14

Park film. Thank you. And the reason

49:16

that the original Jurassic Park film

49:18

works is that there was balance

49:20

between them both. And also, this is

49:22

one of my favorite fun facts about Jurassic

49:24

Park, is when they were

49:26

creating the c

49:28

g elements, for the film because they knew, like, we can't actually

49:30

build a TRANSOURCE REX to

49:32

run and try to eat Jeff

49:34

Goldblum. Like, we have

49:36

to, like, animate this. And the technology's here, we can do it.

49:38

But how do we do it? The

49:40

guys that were creating the CG characters

49:42

did not know how to animate.

49:44

They had no clue because they weren't

49:46

animators. They're all like computer programmers.

49:48

So they brought in a guy

49:50

who was trained by an

49:52

old school stop motion

49:54

animator who did, like, the

49:56

original clash of the Titans films, like, that

49:58

that classic animation of the the skeletons

49:59

running around and fighting a guy, he was trained

50:02

by him. And so he came in

50:04

and they built this special rig that was a little like t rex toy

50:06

essentially that had motion

50:10

capture sensors

50:12

on it. and he

50:13

stopped motion animated the character. And they took those keyframes

50:15

and

50:15

just applied it to the dinosaur. Wow.

50:17

So when you watch it and you're like, wow, the wait

50:19

and like all these things

50:22

are so perfect is because they

50:23

used traditional animation techniques to make

50:25

the character move. That plus

50:27

the CG plus

50:30

you know, Steven Spielberg looking at it and and his whole

50:32

team looking at it and saying, you know, this has

50:34

to be believable, how can we make it

50:36

look believable and incorporating elements to make

50:39

it work. that's why that film is

50:41

still so successful. But

50:43

then the close ups, they'll throw in

50:45

an actual practical puppet.

50:48

Yeah. Right? And

50:48

so, like, the scene when the the the

50:51

loss are after There's Yeah. The

50:53

Raptors are guy in suits.

50:56

Yeah. And they made that work and it's beautiful. And

50:58

there's one mom there's a moment in

51:00

particular that is a really

51:02

great marriage of it all. And

51:04

it's a scene when the velociraptors are trying to get kids in the

51:06

kitchen. Yes. That oh my god. If

51:08

you watched that

51:09

knowing its practical effects,

51:12

Holy shit. Well,

51:13

and there's a there's a couple moments in there that

51:15

is CG. And you don't know

51:17

because the way that they incorporated

51:19

to was perfect.

51:21

And the way that one of the ways they sell it is

51:24

that when the the loss factor

51:26

first looks through the

51:28

glass, they had hot air go through so

51:30

that the little window

51:32

fogs up. And that is telling

51:34

you this thing can breathe. Yeah.

51:36

That's all it's doing. It's communicating with you that it

51:38

can breathe. And so from then on, you just believe that

51:40

it breathes. And that's terrifying because you know it's alive. Don't you

51:42

think that it kind

51:42

of it takes away jobs or

51:44

it takes away, like, creativity

51:46

and ingenuity for, like, how

51:49

are we gonna make this work? How are we gonna like, you

51:51

know, I just love stories of, like,

51:53

the alien in alien is,

51:56

like, the Saxx

51:58

or, like, egg

51:58

yolks or, like, that you know, like, the

51:59

sort of creativity of, like, of,

52:02

like, how these

52:03

things come together, even,

52:05

like, how much the shark in jaws was breaking

52:07

down the whole time and how that made it a

52:10

better movie. Like, you know, don't you

52:12

feel like the people like you

52:14

lose lose jobs or lose

52:16

out in these situations?

52:18

I think that

52:18

we can if we only want to

52:21

stay in puppetry, like if

52:23

we agreed it Puppetry is

52:24

the only way that I can tell a story. Like, I'm for

52:26

me, I I look at myself as more of

52:28

a performer and a storyteller, and so if I have

52:30

to do something that is CG related,

52:33

I will be

52:33

into it and curious about it because I like to

52:36

tell stories and and make people laugh. And

52:38

if that means, you know, I've gotta put

52:39

on a motion capture suit.

52:42

Okay. But I I

52:44

do think that

52:46

people miss out if they say I

52:48

I guess it's more of like I'm not an

52:51

absolutist. Like, If people say that we can only do visual

52:53

effects, I think that that's really ignorant.

52:55

And that is going to make your

52:57

story really weak if you think that that's

52:59

your only option. Now to your

53:02

point of it killing jobs,

53:04

like, there are a lot of folks who

53:06

started to get less work, for sure.

53:08

And a lot of the people

53:10

that I have been mentored by have talked about to me about that about how, like, yeah,

53:12

there's just not as much work as there used to

53:14

be. So when they when they start telling you

53:16

about getting into the industry, they'll

53:18

say, like, start a savings account now and save as much you

53:20

can. Like, that's what they say.

53:22

But on the flip side of it,

53:26

The

53:26

reason visual effects became so prominent is

53:28

not just because they could do

53:31

anything, but production studios

53:32

loved how cost effective

53:36

it is more fun. And the reason it's more cost

53:38

effective is not because it

53:40

takes less

53:41

time or that

53:42

It costs less money to

53:44

buy a six thousand dollar computer and

53:46

a twenty thousand dollar renter farm.

53:48

It costs less money because the

53:50

animators don't have a union, and so they can pay them whatever they want.

53:53

And because of

53:54

the film industry, they create bidding

53:58

wars. And and this isn't even, like, I wish that this was conspiracy

53:59

because and it wasn't this way. But, like,

54:02

sometimes you have

54:04

situations where People are working on

54:06

really huge films and making only

54:08

ten bucks an hour and working

54:10

until like two in the morning,

54:12

trying to get a thirty

54:14

second shot right. Like,

54:15

sometimes a thirty second shot can take

54:17

over a week to produce. And the

54:19

only reason that the

54:20

studios pay for it

54:22

is because it costs less than

54:25

paying somebody that will build

54:27

it for you practically that you can shoot

54:29

on the day. And there

54:31

is

54:31

limitations to puppetry and but

54:33

there are also limitations to visual effects. And that's

54:35

why I think the marriage needs to

54:38

happen, but I think also the

54:40

appreciation for both of the art forms has to occur

54:42

as well. because I have lots of friends who are

54:44

super talented visual effects artists

54:46

who left the industry, left

54:48

doing stuff that they

54:50

absolutely love, they couldn't get a

54:52

livable wage. Well, I

54:53

hope that gets you in trouble

54:55

with your peers. I hope

54:56

that was a spicy hot

54:59

take.

54:59

that gets Yeah. That's Cupid canceled.

55:02

Oh, no. If I I just

55:04

wanna get on to a controversial

55:07

news show, I talk about puppets. Hi. Shakes

55:09

here. I'm done. puppets

55:12

tree. You know, those puppets, they

55:14

all smell like an

55:16

Albert since trash gang. You

55:18

know what I mean? I love to go there, but to very niche

55:22

communities. Well,

55:25

I love to play game shows. So would

55:27

you like to play a game

55:29

with us?

55:30

I would love nothing more

55:32

than to play a game show with you both.

55:34

Yay.

55:34

this shows called Hypothesis.

55:36

You were gabbie by contestants. I'm

55:39

gonna give you a series of

55:41

hypothetical situations. You can ask any clarifying

55:43

questions you might have. and then you tell

55:45

me what you would do in that situation. Okay. Sometimes I declare a

55:47

winner, sometimes we just have a thought

55:50

provoking discussion. and

55:52

sometimes we get it to we get

55:54

to

55:54

fights. Fight to

55:56

fight. But it takes.

55:59

spicy of it takes.

56:02

So our first game is

56:04

America's favorite game

56:06

show. Would you stay with this cheater? Oh,

56:08

God. Your

56:09

partner is convinced

56:11

that they are a

56:13

COVID nineteen super dodger.

56:16

and are immune to getting it. This

56:18

is what Allison thinks about herself. What's this

56:21

what Allison thinks about

56:24

herself? it's already

56:26

spicy and the whole question hasn't

56:28

been asked. Okay.

56:29

So you refused to believe them.

56:31

Despite the fact

56:32

that they have been posed many times

56:34

and have never gotten it. In

56:36

order to prove that they're a super dodger, while

56:38

you are safely way on a business

56:41

trip, They make out with your neighbor who just

56:43

tested positive. They still

56:46

don't get it. Would you

56:47

stay with this

56:49

cheater? No. No. No.

56:50

God no. Directly. Of course not.

56:53

Absolutely reckless. They could contract

56:54

it. They

56:55

could get long COVID.

56:58

No. What

56:58

do you think, mean,

57:00

so I was

57:01

in New York when the pandemic

57:03

hit. And

57:05

if you were New York. If anyone's listening

57:07

right now and you were in New York when the pandemic hit, I feel like that's all you need to

57:09

hear about someone saying, I'm a super dodger. Yeah.

57:11

because, like, it was

57:14

terrifying. it at times was like the apocalypse. It was insane.

57:16

And because there's, you know,

57:18

people are sometimes asymptomatic. and

57:21

sometimes tests don't show up because you have a certain

57:24

strain that can't test. And

57:26

then you end up going to the grocery store and you

57:28

give all,

57:30

you know, Ant Jenny, COVID, and then she goes home and dies.

57:32

Thanks. Thanks a lot for that

57:33

one.

57:34

Jenny. RIP

57:36

at

57:36

Jenny. But the bigger

57:38

thing for me, they actually know they're both

57:40

very important. So the other thing is

57:42

ridiculous. But also, you

57:45

know, if someone I

57:46

don't have patience for someone that cheats on anyone

57:48

for Even a make out, spicy

57:51

steaks. Even a

57:54

make out. I have been cheated on and it was

57:56

terrible. Oh. And my mother's been cheated

57:58

on and it was horrible. And

58:00

so, like,

58:01

I just

58:02

I that's just me. You know?

58:04

Other people are so alive. puppeteers are

58:06

i'm monogamy ginormous.

58:08

Yeah. I'll do it

58:10

sheet again. Extremely min I

58:12

know. But you just blew up your own spot

58:14

as a you

58:15

just made it seem like you didn't even

58:18

understand them and that's true. And I looks like the expert. What I

58:20

love is that

58:20

you just said menomonegini and it sounded like

58:23

a cup of taste. Oh. Menomonegonna

58:26

step down. when

58:28

I'm an entrepreneur. So no

58:31

no patience for it, and I

58:33

don't like patience. I don't want

58:35

people to get sick. So David

58:37

and I are on the same team, and we would not say. Okay. Great deal then.

58:39

I won't do this. Don't do

58:42

it, Allison. else

58:44

Don't go make out with your neighbor to prove a point out. That's why it's

58:47

terrible. that has that Republican

58:48

sign. Yeah. I'm starting

58:50

a beef with my neighbor

58:51

over the

58:53

but LA

58:54

away me Mayor

58:55

Race. Hi,

58:56

Mike. Gosh. Are you gonna is

58:58

this the Caruso guy? Is that the

59:01

team right now? They have a Caruso sign up and, technically, he's

59:03

running as a Democrat, but let's be honest. That guy

59:06

is not Oh my gosh.

59:08

That comment got him being

59:10

Latin is hilarious,

59:10

but we don't have to go into

59:13

it. It's

59:14

me.

59:16

I wouldn't make out with that neighbor.

59:18

Maybe my other their neighbor. Anyway,

59:20

big day for that neighbor. Oh,

59:22

no. This is all the fun. Welcome

59:24

back to our favorite game show. Who

59:27

is she gonna cheat on that? No. I

59:29

don't think I'm

59:31

a super dodger. I think I just

59:33

got my booster at the exact

59:36

right time. I love that for you.

59:38

And then we and then we isolate this. So And then you isolate it. Yeah. Anyway,

59:40

i played it

59:41

our next game.

59:43

Are you

59:45

a terrible parent? k? Oh god.

59:47

Your child,

59:48

ten, has thus

59:50

far

59:51

refused to learn

59:52

how to swim because they

59:54

find the skill to be unnecessary in

59:57

today's society. In

59:59

order to

1:00:02

motivate them, You

1:00:02

book a week long Disney cruise for the whole

1:00:04

family, but tell them that they

1:00:06

have to stay at their grandparents house if they

1:00:08

don't learn how to swim before the

1:00:12

cruise. due to

1:00:13

safety issues. They still refuse

1:00:14

to learn and

1:00:15

for the rest of their life talk about

1:00:17

how their family went on the vacation of

1:00:19

a lifetime without

1:00:22

them. Are

1:00:22

you the terrible parents? 1II

1:00:25

hate you on

1:00:26

to go back to spicy takes. I hate

1:00:30

desserts. cruises are are boats full of

1:00:32

germs. You can't go anywhere.

1:00:34

Mhmm. They're you're stuck with the people.

1:00:36

You can't

1:00:38

leave. If something happened, all those people stuck on cruise ships during COVID, I'm

1:00:40

sorry you had a bad time, but you went

1:00:42

on a cruise. And I think and

1:00:45

I just

1:00:45

I think they're

1:00:48

bad. and I don't like cruises. And I wouldn't even go on that

1:00:50

lesbian cruise that everyone loves. So I

1:00:52

don't think oh, yeah. I guess I can't go Yeah. I was

1:00:54

like, what are you talking about? You can't go on a lesbian

1:00:58

cruise? Wow.

1:00:58

Times have changed for me. But I'm just saying, where

1:01:00

the fuck is my trans

1:01:02

cruise? I don't even want it. because

1:01:04

I don't want it. Okay. pointing

1:01:08

at Not

1:01:09

even the transatlantic cruise. Hey. Look out.

1:01:11

Look out. Hey. Look at the jokes,

1:01:13

everybody. Hey. Take it now.

1:01:15

Take it now. No.

1:01:18

Cruise are horrible.

1:01:18

I would never go on a cruise.

1:01:20

I would never make my family go on a cruise.

1:01:22

And but here's my follow-up

1:01:26

question. Okay. Why why not

1:01:26

just learn how to swim it? It probably takes like

1:01:28

a week. They think it's an unnecessary skill

1:01:30

to have in today's society. But

1:01:32

what if they're driving their car

1:01:34

on a bridge, and the bridge falls, and they fall on the water. Like, the water die. You

1:01:37

don't get to the water. It's around all

1:01:39

the time. You you need to

1:01:41

learn how to This is their strong philosophy. I can't I

1:01:43

don't know what to tell you. When I'm

1:01:46

I'm from Florida and when you're about

1:01:48

one years old, they throw you in

1:01:50

the water. and teach you to

1:01:52

learn teach you to float. Okay.

1:01:54

Did you ever seen videos of that

1:01:56

not throw you in the water? You learned

1:01:58

some videos of them. I think baby

1:01:59

son, I don't swear if it exists.

1:02:02

I don't think it should be done. The baby

1:02:04

asked I had to learn how to put my

1:02:06

soul word about swim, but you don't need to throw a baby in the water. So we don't how

1:02:08

to fulfill that story. Gaby, that's proven

1:02:10

to not be a good thing to do to

1:02:14

your baby. I'm just saying that. I'm not. I don't think that's a good

1:02:16

thing. I'm just saying there's so much

1:02:18

trauma. Who's proven it? Who's proven

1:02:19

it? because you said Yeah. I'm gonna

1:02:21

look it up because I've never seen thing

1:02:23

that it was bad. I'm just saying, okay. Well,

1:02:25

that's like when you're like

1:02:27

nine months, they're like, you better learn how to

1:02:29

swim because you're in Florida and we're

1:02:31

sinking every day. Yeah. You better

1:02:34

learn how to swim because the rains fall

1:02:36

down. And at any

1:02:38

moment, your parents' car is getting

1:02:40

swept away to the everglades.

1:02:41

It is good. No.

1:02:43

I don't think is it I don't think

1:02:45

you're supposed to. No. See an infant

1:02:48

or young child may be injured by the

1:02:50

force and angle of the fall to the

1:02:52

water's surface. and they could be forced too deep into what the water and either hold

1:02:54

their breath at the right time or be unable

1:02:56

to hold it for a long enough time

1:02:58

period.

1:02:59

i'm here It's,

1:03:00

like, very dangerous to throw your baby in the wall. Well, you know what I should've

1:03:02

done? There is a baby not knowing how to swim.

1:03:05

Oh my god.

1:03:06

You can't be done with your baby.

1:03:08

I was parented a

1:03:11

hundred percent correctly,

1:03:12

and I turned out fine.

1:03:14

You turned out great.

1:03:16

I just I had a kid five months ago, so I'm a pretty new dad. Oh,

1:03:18

wow. I saw him throw it in the

1:03:21

water. I'm not planning to throw him

1:03:23

in the salt water all.

1:03:26

Although so I have

1:03:27

noticed that when, like, when he's when I'm

1:03:29

giving him a bath, if I, like, pour water on

1:03:31

his head or, like, lean him back in

1:03:34

the water, he

1:03:34

puts his arms out, like straight out. And

1:03:36

there is a

1:03:37

type of training that you can do

1:03:39

with your young kids when

1:03:41

they're like toddlers. to

1:03:43

learn how to put their arms out

1:03:45

and flip their bodies when they're if they, like, fall

1:03:47

into a pool. Correct. And A

1:03:49

toddler is different than a baby.

1:03:51

Okay. A toddler is

1:03:52

very different than a baby. Okay. Yeah.

1:03:55

I wouldn't go through

1:03:56

and like still do not

1:03:57

throw a baby in

1:03:59

it

1:03:59

the water. spicy hot pumpkin cakes. We all

1:04:02

just start water man. Come on.

1:04:04

That's natural. We all,

1:04:06

like, come up in at one point,

1:04:08

you were a tadpole.

1:04:10

Come on. They children get drowned

1:04:12

after

1:04:12

being out of the water. Did you know

1:04:15

I didn't know that. So, like,

1:04:16

we need to be really cautious with water

1:04:18

and children. Anyway, that is the culture. I think for the many question,

1:04:20

like, I think that if the

1:04:23

kid

1:04:23

is really that, like,

1:04:26

if it's some sort of, like, morality thing, like, I would

1:04:28

continue to this is me being so rational because I'm

1:04:30

a parent now and I think about these things.

1:04:34

But, like, I would keep talking to the kid about it. You know? I think it's

1:04:36

it's I wouldn't call it bad parenting

1:04:40

to threaten

1:04:42

your child. with a

1:04:44

potential lifelong trauma, but

1:04:46

I

1:04:46

would say that it's it's probably

1:04:48

ill advised. Yeah. You know, like, it's probably

1:04:50

not the best way to parent or your

1:04:52

kid, but it's definitely better

1:04:54

than, like, you know, hitting them

1:04:57

in the

1:04:57

back with a stick and then

1:04:59

pushing them in a pool. You know, like, there's if there's a lot worse things

1:05:01

you could do to your kid, you know,

1:05:03

like, you could blame them for

1:05:06

your fraudulent

1:05:08

act chins and men. Kick them into the pool.

1:05:10

There's a lot of different ways. Sure. Set them on fire. This is getting weird.

1:05:12

But the the thing that I

1:05:15

think Yeah. I just They

1:05:17

lose their baby cruise, which

1:05:18

probably when you get back, you're all

1:05:21

sick, you all have the flu, from

1:05:23

the freaking buffet, and they're

1:05:25

like told you so. This is so

1:05:27

funny. I've never known you that once care about hygiene, but now suddenly you care

1:05:29

about the cruises hygiene. You're trapped.

1:05:32

I don't like being trapped.

1:05:34

You're trapped.

1:05:34

Yeah.

1:05:35

Look, none of us will go on a

1:05:37

cruise.

1:05:38

Yeah. It's it's it's kinda scary at times, especially

1:05:40

if you're in a room that has no windows.

1:05:42

It's -- People go busy time. -- busy business all the time.

1:05:44

But we

1:05:46

both

1:05:46

equally shouted about

1:05:50

some thing. Yeah. I'm shouting about the cruises. I'm shouting about not

1:05:52

throwing a baby in a pool.

1:05:54

Okay. Wait. This is a

1:05:57

we're riled up on hypotheticals today.

1:05:59

I'm

1:05:59

really angry now.

1:06:02

You better be careful what you ask me

1:06:04

next. Okay.

1:06:06

Final game. And this is for you to get

1:06:08

a file. break everything in front of me.

1:06:11

Oh my god. Okay. Our final game,

1:06:13

would you forgive this

1:06:16

liar?

1:06:16

Oh. You ask your new

1:06:17

partner if they

1:06:18

have ever seen the hit

1:06:22

show the office. When they

1:06:24

share that they have never seen

1:06:26

it, you are shocked

1:06:28

and forced them to watch it all

1:06:30

with you. In the

1:06:32

middle of season three, they

1:06:34

finally break down and admit that they

1:06:36

have seen the office. They

1:06:38

just hate it so much. They found it more socially acceptable to

1:06:40

pretend they have never seen it in the first

1:06:42

place. Would

1:06:44

you forgive This

1:06:46

liar. Why did they agree to watch

1:06:48

it with you? because they did it. They had lied.

1:06:50

They had set up the you know, and then you made

1:06:52

this big stink that they had to see it. Were they pretending to

1:06:54

laugh? Yeah. Oh, I hate

1:06:56

that. Oh,

1:06:56

that's weird. No. Not

1:06:58

really. Like, they're not pretending

1:06:59

to laugh, but

1:07:02

they they were, you know, like, they were like, oh, So

1:07:04

how did I get three seasons in,

1:07:05

not noticing that they were having

1:07:07

a bad time? You

1:07:09

not

1:07:10

noticing something? Wait.

1:07:11

This happened. This is a real thing

1:07:14

that happened to somebody.

1:07:16

So you had a friend who watched the show

1:07:18

for three seasons.

1:07:19

things I don't know. I thought that I don't notice.

1:07:21

It's just well, I do. I don't notice.

1:07:23

But also, nobody if you would just

1:07:25

be straightforward with

1:07:27

me. this is the type of

1:07:28

like, I could have, on hundred percent, imagine

1:07:30

you watching something and not

1:07:32

realizing that everyone else hates it because

1:07:35

you really liked it. Yeah. But

1:07:37

if you don't like it, then leave. Right? Yeah. because

1:07:38

that's what you would think. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

1:07:40

I mean, yeah, I definitely think

1:07:42

that there are people

1:07:45

who will say they like something

1:07:47

when they've never actually seen it just

1:07:49

to, like, fit in with the the

1:07:51

social conversation. But

1:07:52

it if

1:07:53

somebody was, like, telling me they

1:07:55

had never seen a show that

1:07:57

was,

1:07:57

like, really important to a lot of

1:08:00

people and they

1:08:00

were like laughing at parts, but then they were like, so by

1:08:02

the way, I've I've seen it.

1:08:04

It's just I hate it. think

1:08:07

it's the worst things that existed and I just didn't know what to do,

1:08:09

so I kept the lie going. I would be

1:08:11

pretty surprised and I would have a very long conversation

1:08:13

because that's hilarious and weird. but I would

1:08:15

also then punish them by making them watch something that they

1:08:18

I know that they would hate, but I love.

1:08:20

I would say like, well,

1:08:22

okay. So here's what happens now.

1:08:24

we're gonna watch a bad taste, a really

1:08:26

horrible horrible sci fi film, and you're gonna enjoy

1:08:28

it. I I think that there had

1:08:31

to be some sort of fun

1:08:34

repercussions. I don't trust them.

1:08:35

I don't trust them. Yeah. And then I feel fun. Oh, yeah. No. I'm

1:08:36

sitting next to you chuckling

1:08:38

at at Michael Scott's antics.

1:08:40

at at michael

1:08:42

scott and And you think I'm an idiot?

1:08:44

Well, honestly, you have to keep in

1:08:46

mind that that's a twenty two episode

1:08:48

per season show. So that's a little

1:08:50

to be making the halfway through season.

1:08:52

three. There's been a lot of lying happening. Yeah. I

1:08:54

don't like it. I think I could forgive them for the lie, but I wouldn't wanna be their partner

1:09:00

anymore. Yeah.

1:09:00

Oh, is this someone who's, like

1:09:02

I thought there's just, like, a friend. Just,

1:09:05

like, something Yeah. You're dating. Yeah. No. Yeah.

1:09:07

Like, relationship over. Like, that's if

1:09:09

you're just like, when you're dating somebody, it's a long term interview.

1:09:11

And, like, that's that's a huge, like, I feel like ACV

1:09:15

red flag. Right? Yeah. Like,

1:09:17

what else are they gonna lie to you about?

1:09:20

You know? Like, I I know I swear. I'll cook your steak

1:09:22

medium rare, and then it's always gonna come back, like, medium.

1:09:24

Like, Come on. So

1:09:26

this person, they would want medium rare and you cook it medium and they never say anything. I don't like

1:09:28

that. Yeah. That's I can't handle

1:09:30

that. I don't like that. Yeah.

1:09:34

Alright. So we actually know and not riled up because

1:09:36

we all agree. I don't really care about

1:09:38

the office. Is

1:09:39

that odd? Yeah. I

1:09:40

really care about it. I know. I'm the

1:09:43

only one

1:09:43

here. Who cares? Do you like the office?

1:09:45

You think it's okay? No. I think

1:09:47

it's okay to not

1:09:49

like the office because I don't

1:09:51

like most of Game of Thrones.

1:09:53

Yeah. I think that it

1:09:55

wasn't that good. After season

1:09:57

one, it just kinda slowly

1:09:59

declined and kinda just collapsed,

1:10:01

like, you know, a flan and a cupboard. It just was like I'm on season

1:10:03

three right now.

1:10:05

I'm

1:10:07

still liking

1:10:08

it. But this has

1:10:10

had to be my third time attempting

1:10:12

to watch

1:10:12

this show. Yeah. Yeah.

1:10:14

Have you guys ever heard of the

1:10:16

Sopranos? See, I didn't

1:10:17

like the Sopranos. Like like operators I got bored

1:10:19

with the Sopranos.

1:10:20

i avoided

1:10:22

the sopranos appreciate good

1:10:24

brass section. What are

1:10:26

you like? It's good. No.

1:10:29

Get out of

1:10:31

here. Bye. We're done with you.

1:10:32

Alright. Damn. Get out

1:10:34

of here. I'm just

1:10:37

gonna eat this cookie

1:10:39

really close to the Oh my

1:10:41

goodness.

1:10:41

Thank you so much for joining us. Where can people find you and all the

1:10:43

things that you're doing? So

1:10:45

you can go

1:10:47

to my website site

1:10:49

and look at a photo of me looking like

1:10:51

throwing own just me. david com and my last name is

1:10:54

spelled with two z's and one

1:10:56

r. if you

1:10:58

wanna see, like, where I'm posting all the

1:11:00

time and being really active with funny things, go to

1:11:02

my Instagram account. It's just at david Bizarro.

1:11:05

Yeah. Oh, waffles and mochi. I don't know if this is gonna air

1:11:07

before or after the show comes out, but I play mochi in the new

1:11:09

kids in the new kids show waffles

1:11:11

and mochi's restaurants not.

1:11:15

And so that's coming out October seventeenth. And that's

1:11:18

my latest thing. Yeah.

1:11:20

Amazing. Well, that'll

1:11:21

all go. This will be

1:11:23

out so people can like in like a

1:11:25

few weeks so people can watch it. Oh, great. Perfect. Yeah. Everyone go to

1:11:27

Netflix and watch that show. It's super cute. Amazing.

1:11:30

Thank

1:11:30

you so much.

1:11:33

Thank

1:11:33

you. And this was really,

1:11:35

really fun. around. After the break, be

1:11:35

talking all about superstition.

1:11:50

Welcome

1:11:50

back to just between us. It's time

1:11:52

for Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.

1:11:54

Bye. Thanks. Bye bye. Bye.

1:11:56

Well,

1:11:59

only the phone A

1:11:59

producer would know to use the mic

1:12:02

in such a way. This week's topic is

1:12:04

superstition.

1:12:06

Sebastian.

1:12:08

In

1:12:09

the wing. With

1:12:11

twenty year boom baby.

1:12:12

I didn't know what

1:12:15

part you're starting from.

1:12:16

that we're gonna start

1:12:18

Thursday. Thursday. Friday. on the wild. Okay. Very good.

1:12:20

Very good. Thank

1:12:23

you, Stevie. Wonder. Now, I

1:12:26

will start with this question. Do you each consider yourself to be a superstitious person? Absolutely

1:12:28

not. No. Okay.

1:12:31

Tell me more. I

1:12:34

think I have quirks

1:12:37

that may be

1:12:38

considered OCD. Okay. Okay.

1:12:40

The

1:12:43

real We're getting to the

1:12:45

real spot button. Yes. Okay. This

1:12:47

is what This is

1:12:50

the galaxy brain take

1:12:52

Melissa. Is it a superstition? Or is it that you

1:12:54

think you can't step on a crack because it will literally

1:12:55

break your

1:12:58

mother's back? See, I don't believe in that kind of thing. I think it's like

1:13:00

dumb. But if that

1:13:01

was your OCD thing about it, like, the

1:13:04

people

1:13:04

that are like, I have a friend who's like,

1:13:06

I have to spit everywhere that I go because if I don't spit somewhere, it's gonna

1:13:09

it's gonna get killed in the apocalypse. I

1:13:11

don't know. I'm I'm bongling this person's

1:13:13

very real amount to onus. But

1:13:15

I'm just saying

1:13:15

that like, that that's a

1:13:18

superstition, but that's OCD. They know it's their OCD. I guess I was thinking more superstition

1:13:21

about

1:13:24

like don't walk under a ladder or

1:13:26

or things that are like like universally held to to

1:13:28

be like You hold your

1:13:30

breath when you drive past a graveyard.

1:13:33

I used to. Yeah. Yeah. I

1:13:35

only use it to buy as antigen. Go on. So, like, I love I

1:13:38

don't know if this counts as

1:13:40

superstition. But,

1:13:43

like, I will whenever I have an opportunity to make a wish, I'll make a

1:13:45

wish. We'll make a wish on your eyelash. I can wish

1:13:47

on my eyelash every

1:13:49

time I get a fountain I make a wish at when it's, like,

1:13:51

two twenty two, three thirty 334

1:13:54

forty four. I sometimes,

1:13:56

we'll be afraid to say

1:13:58

something because I

1:13:59

don't wanna jinx it. A Zach counter as a superstition?

1:14:02

Yes. So I'm not I like but I don't use it to make myself

1:14:04

feel bad. So, like, if I

1:14:06

need to walk under a ladder,

1:14:09

I'll walk under a line. But, like, when

1:14:11

do you have the opportunity? No. I actually have had to do

1:14:13

that kind of unit. Yeah. I

1:14:14

don't wanna I don't wanna open an umbrella inside.

1:14:17

i don't wanna open an umbrella inside

1:14:19

Oh, see, I

1:14:19

don't mind that one. No. That one my mom says is bad. Okay.

1:14:21

So mine are, I guess, they would be considered

1:14:23

old wives' tells, but

1:14:26

they're superstition. But, like,

1:14:28

don't leave your purse on the

1:14:30

floor because you like, your

1:14:31

money's gone if you do that or

1:14:32

the you've gone if you do that

1:14:34

for don't

1:14:34

don't sweep at nighttime because it sweeps away your blessings. These are

1:14:37

all things in my grandmother's. Oh my god.

1:14:39

I've never heard of that. That's

1:14:42

I mean, that's pretty super cishes. Yeah. And you don't do those things. Correct.

1:14:44

And you slide And it is.

1:14:46

I don't do Asian. But did I

1:14:48

just say

1:14:48

who I have some? No. I know,

1:14:50

but I'm just saying it's interest you're

1:14:53

finding out things about yourself. Yeah. Do you

1:14:55

guys not look in the mirror and say bloody mirror? I

1:15:00

always wanted

1:15:00

to do it. I've done it. No. I've done it

1:15:02

and

1:15:02

nothing's happened. That you know, thus far, she's

1:15:05

following you down.

1:15:07

It's been years. I am

1:15:09

very scared of that. I'm very scared of candy man. Thank candy man in the

1:15:11

mirror. Oh my god. I've said it twice.

1:15:14

Don't say it, candy. Another No.

1:15:17

has to be the same

1:15:20

person. No. No. No. No. You just

1:15:22

have to say five times in total.

1:15:24

Do not I don't. Me a

1:15:26

few years ago would have said it, but now

1:15:28

I tried to respect boundaries. Okay.

1:15:30

Unless that one time, candy man. No.

1:15:32

That's only

1:15:36

four. That's

1:15:37

only four.

1:15:42

doesn't scare.

1:15:44

Why you're scared of

1:15:46

a black man?

1:15:47

Oh. Oh.

1:15:51

bated. You

1:15:53

say yourself. You're

1:15:55

right. You know? One

1:15:57

thing I feel bad about, sometimes

1:15:59

I don't know what other people's superstitions And so I've few years

1:15:59

ago that

1:16:03

cheersing with water some

1:16:06

people consider that to be bad for

1:16:08

you. I'll certainly be looking your Yeah. They'll look

1:16:10

each other as I. But I I don't really

1:16:12

drink. And so a lot of times, everyone will

1:16:14

have a drink, and I'll have water, and everyone wants to do

1:16:16

with cheers, but I don't know if I'm gonna

1:16:19

upset people by what will upset

1:16:21

them more by me not engaging in Cheers or by

1:16:23

me engaging in the cheers with water and then people

1:16:25

being worried. What you should do

1:16:26

is lift up the flowers that are

1:16:28

on the table and just cheers. That's

1:16:30

not what they're watering it. It's got

1:16:33

other

1:16:33

stuff. Like

1:16:34

what? Flowers. Also, there's

1:16:38

like there's Jewish superstitions too that are so

1:16:40

fun. Like not naming your

1:16:42

child after someone who's alive --

1:16:45

Right. -- because it will kill

1:16:47

that person. I would never name my Don't be neither. I'm so scared

1:16:49

because I'd so kind of I I

1:16:51

every time someone's like, oh, I'm a junior

1:16:54

in my mind. I'm like, you killed your

1:16:56

dad. To me, it's just like

1:16:58

it's such a culturally ingrained thing. Like, it would just be

1:17:00

so

1:17:03

weird to me ever be my

1:17:05

child after someone in my family who's gone live. So, like, dying. It's literally, like, sacral. Yeah. But

1:17:08

isn't that so weird? Like, even if

1:17:10

you're not that religious of a Jew, you're,

1:17:12

like, can't.

1:17:15

Like, if I could never do it. You yeah. It's

1:17:17

like so ingrained. People think that that's

1:17:19

so weird. Yeah. Well, I think

1:17:21

people being named dead the same

1:17:23

as their kid's weird. Yeah. Because then

1:17:25

when they call the house, someone's looking for you. How do they know? One

1:17:27

thing I remember about Jimmy

1:17:30

Fallon, I don't know

1:17:32

why. is that his parents are

1:17:34

named James and Gloria Fallon, and then his sister is he's James and Gloria

1:17:36

Fallon. They named the kids the

1:17:38

same exact names as the parents.

1:17:42

Like, his

1:17:42

name is his middle name is Gloria.

1:17:45

No. His his name is Jimmy, and

1:17:47

his sister is Gloria, and the parents are

1:17:49

Jimmy and Gloria. You find not really weird. Can I Well,

1:17:51

I'm not supposed to find it weird and every

1:17:53

culture is different, but I'm not too weird.

1:17:56

Like, why? I don't understand

1:17:58

in. That's

1:17:58

just so

1:17:59

confusing. Yeah. so confusing. I

1:18:02

I don't understand it, really logistical

1:18:04

to me. Okay. Well, write in, I'm sorry if

1:18:06

this is something big in your culture, but I just I don't know how explain to us how it's not Yeah. explain

1:18:08

to us why it's good.

1:18:10

My nephew is a junior. We

1:18:14

call him MJ. Mhmm. But and

1:18:17

then, like, Preston is kinda, like, a

1:18:19

family name. Just, like, a

1:18:21

lot of the wants have

1:18:23

the middle name or first name Preston. Well,

1:18:25

what's the point of

1:18:26

it? I I think a pass

1:18:28

it on. just to pass

1:18:30

it on. and it's but it's not required. It's just

1:18:32

like a lot of like, I'll meet,

1:18:34

like, some because my grandmother had

1:18:36

eight other siblings and then and

1:18:38

then, like, there's a

1:18:39

lot of family around. And so,

1:18:41

like, I'll quote unquote meet someone but their family. And their, like,

1:18:44

middle name is president.

1:18:46

That's my dad's middle name.

1:18:48

Okay.

1:18:48

That's why the way to tie yourself to

1:18:50

each other against them. Alright. That's nice. Alright. I

1:18:54

could be convinced. And it's and it's to ward off evil. That's for

1:18:56

no reason. Yeah. Have you ever do

1:18:58

you know those evil eye bracelets --

1:19:01

Yeah. -- that you wear

1:19:02

that are supposed to take take

1:19:06

away the evil from you, I guess. Well, the evil eye is interesting because it's present in I think a lot of different cultures.

1:19:11

Yes. It is. which is I

1:19:14

always find that stuff fascinating that is, like, permeated. Mhmm. What

1:19:16

are other, like, Jewish ones?

1:19:18

Oh, like, you have to light

1:19:20

oh right left alone

1:19:22

I

1:19:22

don't know why. There's certain, like, things where it's like, you have to

1:19:25

light the menorah, a certain direction.

1:19:27

Otherwise, it's bad, or you have

1:19:29

to like, there's so many that are just,

1:19:31

like, you're not supposed to eat the you're not supposed

1:19:33

to drink from Elijah's cup because

1:19:35

it's for

1:19:36

Elijah, like all these

1:19:39

little things that are like badly. Superstitions are just like

1:19:41

rules. They're like they're like I

1:19:43

feel like if you

1:19:46

do it, you're cursed. Maybe I was just I know what's

1:19:49

bad? I'll tell you

1:19:51

about bad superstitions.

1:19:53

Black

1:19:53

cats don't

1:19:56

get adopted. because

1:19:56

people think black cats are bad luck.

1:19:58

Yeah. So the shelters full

1:19:59

of black cats for no

1:19:59

fucking reason. I know and

1:20:02

they're so pretty. Adopt a black

1:20:04

cat.

1:20:06

Salem.

1:20:06

Salem was a black cat, Sabrina's

1:20:08

hand which, what the fuck is the name of

1:20:10

the cat from Salem? It's not really you

1:20:13

disproving it. That was a witch's cat.

1:20:15

get a witch's cat and cowards. I'm just saying

1:20:17

like there's

1:20:18

black cats are so cute

1:20:20

and they're wasting away in

1:20:22

shelters because you people think there's some sort

1:20:24

of weirdness around black cats, which is not a thing. You should go adopted black

1:20:26

cat, now that you're a cat, and I'll tell them anyway. I know

1:20:29

we have a black dog

1:20:31

and a white cat.

1:20:33

So

1:20:33

maybe we need to get a white dog

1:20:35

and a black make

1:20:36

all my animals

1:20:39

race each other. That's

1:20:41

a race war with the white and black animal.

1:20:43

God damn it. I

1:20:44

quit

1:20:48

the show. when Do

1:20:50

you judge other people

1:20:50

for having being superstitious? I judge it when it's like you have

1:20:53

to look each other in the

1:20:55

eye to do cheers because

1:20:58

That's what about autistic people who can't look

1:21:01

in each other's eyes. Sometimes superstitions are like,

1:21:03

they don't have any basis and they

1:21:05

just inconvenience people who have

1:21:07

different needs. Mhmm. That's

1:21:09

true so much

1:21:11

in my world. Yeah. Do you judge? Maybe.

1:21:12

you judge

1:21:14

I'm

1:21:16

coming in your house at night. I'm gonna sweep

1:21:19

away your blessings. Yeah. That would be your blessings, though. They're not mine. Oh, if you're ever sleeping.

1:21:20

not who

1:21:23

owns the home. Yeah.

1:21:25

Interesting. The crack thing, walking on crack, it'll

1:21:27

break your mom's back. Like, okay

1:21:32

okay. because you don't really care about

1:21:34

your mom? No. I care about your mom. But, like, I've walked on

1:21:36

many of cracks

1:21:39

and her back is perfectly fun. Knock on

1:21:41

wood. Knock on wood. That's a super That is a super That

1:21:43

is a superstition. I still do.

1:21:45

I still do knock

1:21:48

on wood. I think knock on wood,

1:21:50

there's also, like, a Hebrew phrase. That's, like, that's, like, knock on wood. That's, like, I didn't

1:21:52

mean that. But I sometimes will

1:21:54

use that. Did I do that?

1:21:58

Yep. That's

1:21:59

an old

1:21:59

Hebrew expression. That's

1:22:03

pretty perfect. Purple.

1:22:06

Twelve twenty five. You know what I mean? Like, that's not that book of

1:22:09

Erco. This is a

1:22:11

relevant

1:22:11

show. Wow. Why

1:22:14

don't we write this

1:22:16

episode? I will

1:22:18

rate

1:22:19

it seventy five

1:22:21

out of sixty three

1:22:24

little poppets.

1:22:24

puppy

1:22:25

I'll

1:22:26

write it a hundred out

1:22:28

of ninety nine, celebrate yourself,

1:22:30

baby. Praise you, the song

1:22:32

by Fat Boy Slim. Five

1:22:35

out of one

1:22:39

candy man. No.

1:22:41

Close all the

1:22:44

mirrors. That was

1:22:46

vicious.

1:22:47

That was vicious.

1:22:48

that was this shit and

1:22:51

I didn't do

1:22:51

it, so it's not my fault. Thank you so much,

1:22:53

David. This is all for being

1:22:55

our guests. Gaby will be back,

1:22:57

next show or maybe

1:22:59

Gaby will be dead. Just between

1:23:01

us is a forever dog

1:23:02

production hosted by me, Alison Raskin,

1:23:05

and me, Gabby

1:23:08

Dunn, produced by Melissa Diamondmont's edited by

1:23:10

Coco Louren's executive produced by Brett Beaumont, Joe Celyo, Alex Ramsay and

1:23:12

Tracy Sorin. Brendan Burns

1:23:14

composed our

1:23:15

killer theme music, To

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1:23:56

Okay. Bye.

1:23:57

for

1:23:59

forever. Dog. I'm Ally

1:24:04

Weiss, and on my

1:24:06

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