0:02

Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shondaland

0:04

Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.

0:08

Okay, Alb, we have to interview

0:10

Vira now, but is there any other last

0:12

things you want to tell me or

0:14

Daddy or any of our listeners.

0:17

My fair things being I'm grateful

0:19

for being a Ninja and my family.

0:22

I love it. Say peace out, love

0:27

you. Okay,

0:30

do you want to say bye.

0:31

Bye bye bye bye

0:34

bye, Babby?

0:35

She said, bye bye. I love you, I love

0:37

you.

0:39

Great job.

0:49

Hello everybody, Hello,

0:54

friends, Mama's Katie's Crib,

0:56

community caretakers, everyone.

0:59

This is what's wild that

1:01

I'm even about to say this, but I'm

1:04

currently about to record the

1:07

final episode of

1:09

Katie's Crib. My goodness,

1:12

have we all gone through stuff together? And

1:15

I'm just so grateful. I'm sitting

1:17

here just so grateful, and

1:20

I am bringing to you a

1:22

last episode with my family

1:26

because who else best

1:28

to ask how I've been doing as a mom and everything

1:30

that I've learned from Katie's Crib with your support.

1:33

But Adam, Albi and Verra right,

1:36

so they are my guests today. This is the final

1:38

episode of season six and the final episode

1:40

of Katie's Crib. We've

1:43

done six seasons. Give

1:45

it up for six seasons? Are you

1:48

hidding? When I started this, when

1:50

we would record in Albi's

1:53

crib nursery room, hence the

1:55

title, I had no idea

1:58

that this would be my

2:01

safe space. I had no idea this would be my mom

2:05

village. I had no idea this could be the

2:07

platform where I could take all of my

2:09

biggest worries and heartbreaks

2:12

and anxieties and joys and triumphs

2:14

and failures and find any sort of expert

2:16

or other mom who'd been through it to come on and

2:19

hopefully all together we

2:21

could learn how to get through this whole

2:23

thing, which we are still doing.

2:26

But I want you all to know this is not the

2:30

end of us. Look, the

2:32

podcast can be referred

2:35

to constantly. I listened back

2:37

to the things experts say all the time because I

2:39

forget amazing lessons that I learned

2:41

in seasons one, two, three, four, five, six. But

2:43

beyond that, Thank Gosh

2:45

for social media. Thank Gosh, who am I good morning?

2:47

Thank God for social media

2:50

because you can always reach me and I can always

2:52

reach you, and they

2:54

are exciting potential Katie's

2:57

Crib things in the works just FYI.

3:00

So I can't really say what those things

3:02

are right now, but there

3:05

are Katie's Crib future

3:07

lives that are in

3:10

the works and potentially happening. This

3:13

work is so near and dear to my heart.

3:16

So even though this is the final episode

3:18

of Katie's Crib is a podcast, we

3:21

are not final. Does that make any

3:23

sense? And I'm making any sense. Let's get

3:25

on with it, right because otherwise I'm just

3:27

gonna sit here like a blubbering mess. I

3:30

cry a lot on this podcast. So,

3:38

guys, the guest today, as

3:41

I just explained, yes, is

3:45

the love of my life.

3:46

We're back Baby Katie's

3:48

Crib.

3:51

My husband, my baby daddy,

3:53

Adam

3:56

Mark Shapiro, shepis

3:59

share apps. So, Adam,

4:03

how has Katie's

4:06

Crib affected our

4:08

journey as parents? Using?

4:10

I mean A big part of the way that it's affected

4:12

me, I think is it's so hard

4:14

to get to my underwear drawer while you're

4:16

recording it.

4:19

I have deceased.

4:21

I've gone a lot of days commando

4:24

because you're recording Katie's Crib

4:27

and I can't get in my closet.

4:28

My clawfice has just like a

4:30

piece of plastic that I open up

4:32

the door. You've seen photos, and I will post

4:34

photos at the time of this podcast airing.

4:37

But yeah, I'm usually in here pretty early

4:39

recording and Adam can't get to his underwear.

4:42

Do you even remember this podcast starting? Do

4:45

you remember when I used Akua used to come over

4:47

in Albi's nurse It was

4:49

his nursery, then it was the playroom. Now it's

4:52

his room because Verra's moved. We've done a lot of musical

4:54

bedrooms in this house to make it all work. But yes,

4:57

she used to come over, and like Kate Kristen

4:59

be Well, came Rebecca Ben and nadi

5:02

Jen Finnegan pre

5:04

COVID. We were recording in a studio. We were

5:06

having round tables with a bunch of people.

5:09

My first experiences with Katie's Crib were

5:11

making the logo and adding the bottle

5:13

to the logo.

5:16

Oh remember that, I

5:18

do remember that.

5:21

I bring the graphic design as well, not

5:23

just fathering the children.

5:25

Is he not just a one stop

5:27

shop of perfection this man.

5:29

I've just had such a unique

5:32

experience with Katie's Crib being

5:35

the.

5:36

Co parent to you.

5:38

No one else in the world gets to listen to this

5:40

podcast and be like, oh, I didn't

5:42

realize she felt that way about that, or I didn't realize

5:45

that happened, or we hadn't had

5:47

time to talk about that story, and that was actually

5:49

new to me. It was almost like a podcast

5:52

just for me in a lot of ways, to

5:54

listen to and get to hear your insights

5:56

in a way that probably most husbands

5:59

and wives are co parents don't actually

6:01

have the time to sit down and talk about.

6:03

Yes, But then also, didn't you find it really

6:05

hard in the beginning? I remember like I would learn

6:07

things from experts about

6:10

shit we were doing wrong or not to the best

6:12

of our ability.

6:13

Yeah.

6:13

You'd come streaming out of the closet and be like

6:15

Adam.

6:16

We need to yeah, or like you

6:19

would be in the middle of doing something, like

6:21

we would learn something and we would kind of use

6:23

it against each other, not in a bad way, but in a good

6:25

way. I would put a lot of food

6:28

out on their plates, and Adam would be like taliamore

6:30

the nutrition episode, like we know we're not supposed

6:33

to give them, Like this is overwhelming and

6:35

causes anxiety. Daniel Siegel

6:37

comes on and it's all about rupture and repair and

6:39

if there was a rupture and you and Alb got into

6:41

some sort of upsetting moment,

6:44

and then I'm like, you can go in there and you just

6:46

have to say, remember when that happened. I'lbe I'm really

6:48

sorry about that.

6:49

Yeah, And sometimes I'd be like, I

6:51

appreciate the advice Katie, and

6:54

then other times I'd just be like, I don't want Katie's

6:56

crib this moment right now. I just want to yell at them

6:58

put of my room.

7:00

Here's an example where my kids were older

7:03

than your son is at that time. But I had a

7:06

nine at the time, my daughter and then

7:08

our son was fourteen, and we were walking

7:10

by this crepe store near where we

7:12

lived, and my son said he's hungry. I

7:14

said, oh, do you want to crape? And he said, yeah, I

7:16

love crepe. And then I asked his sister, do you want

7:18

to crape? She goes, I'm not hungry. I said fine, you know,

7:21

so we went in, he got a crape

7:23

and then she said to him, can I have

7:26

a taste of your crape? He goes no, And

7:28

I'm just fuming inside, like I've done a horrible

7:30

job teaching him to be a sharer and he's

7:33

selfish and all stuff, and then

7:35

I exploded. Luckily my wife was

7:37

home and she intervenes when all the three

7:39

of us get home, and then

7:41

my system is starting to slowly

7:44

calm down. And so his

7:46

sister and I go for rollerblading

7:50

out on the street and she says to me. She

7:52

goes, Dad, what was going on? Why

7:55

did you get so angry? I

7:57

said, oh, you know, because

7:59

he didn't share the crepe with you. She goes, I

8:01

can handle myself. What was happening?

8:04

I said, oh, I was trying to guess work through

8:06

the way. My parents never protected me, so I

8:08

was trying to protect you. And since she looks at me,

8:10

she goes, this is your own garbage. She goes,

8:12

why don't you work this out on your own time?

8:15

And that's parenting the

8:18

crepes of wrath business.

8:19

That was the rupture and then figuring

8:21

it out. But the repair happened when

8:24

she and I got back from the rollerblading

8:26

thing. We had a family meeting and

8:29

I apologized to my

8:31

son for having, you know,

8:33

flipped my lid, for just asserting

8:36

his right to eat his crape by himself.

8:39

The kids are so great, and I think a

8:42

lot of our battles have had to do with food,

8:44

and I think maybe that's just me projecting

8:47

because a lot of my battles have to do with food.

8:49

But I think that first or second episode

8:51

with Talia when she was talking about.

8:53

Nutrition was like I was, that was like a

8:55

huge.

8:57

Corner that we turned with Albie, and I think

9:00

it's huge things out for years

9:02

because of that.

9:03

Oh yeah, this is what I hear in my head all

9:05

the time. What and when they

9:07

eat is up to me, If they eat is

9:09

up to them. Parenthood is

9:12

so much about fighting the

9:15

things that have been pushed into you from

9:17

your childhood experience, good or bad.

9:20

Am I going to do this the same? Am I going to do this

9:22

different? And I'm gonna am I going to learn mostly

9:25

about yourself and your own shit in the process.

9:28

It's been such a gift to have access

9:32

to the best experts

9:35

and people who've been through it before.

9:38

Like, for example, we're gonna potty train via

9:41

this weekend, and I'm already like, oh, I just go back and

9:43

listen to Jamie Gowacky's episode who wrote

9:45

the book, Oh crap, And

9:47

I feel like a pro already.

9:50

Because the signs of readiness quote unquote are

9:52

so subtle. I always say

9:54

between twenty and thirty months is perfect, right, And

9:56

the biggest issue you guys is you can certainly potty

9:58

train before twenty month. It's going

10:01

to be a longer learning curve, but you don't get

10:03

any attitude. The kid just takes a little

10:05

longer to connect the dots. After thirty

10:07

six months, your kid goes through a psychological

10:09

process called individuation, which means

10:11

they begin to realize they're a separate person from

10:13

you. So yeah, So all I tell

10:15

people is I don't really give a ratsas when you potty

10:17

chain. I have no investment whatsoever. I don't care if

10:19

you could go to college in dapors. Just know that every

10:22

month that goes by, you are cementing a

10:24

different habit.

10:25

Diaper wearing is a habit. That's it.

10:28

Yeah, we have we've had unprecedented

10:31

access to all of the biggest experts

10:33

in all of the fields of child.

10:34

Develop Fucking Harvey Karp came

10:37

on the inventor of the snow and the five

10:39

fucking esses.

10:40

Yeah that was pretty great. That was great.

10:43

What snow does, in addition to rocking

10:45

and shushing all night, is that it hears

10:48

when the baby cries and

10:50

responds with a little bit more

10:52

jiggle and shush.

10:54

I mean, come on, but it's

10:56

true.

10:57

We're the most awarded baby product in

10:59

history for innovation, technology,

11:01

safety, and design. It's in

11:03

three of the leading art museums around the

11:05

world.

11:06

We loved it because I was a bad swaddler, and so

11:08

this new comes with a

11:11

really beautifully tight zip

11:14

up a bowl sleepsack

11:16

sort of thing that you put the baby in, and it is a

11:18

swat, it's a swaddle, but I'm not

11:20

doing it with all this material that he's getting out

11:23

of and it's terrible.

11:24

Right, our kids slept

11:26

like a baby.

11:28

That's one thing we didn't fuck up. We

11:30

fucked up a lot of stuff, but sleeping

11:32

we nailed. And honestly, that is a testament to

11:34

Adam Shapiro and incredible boundaries.

11:37

Because if I was married to somebody else, my kids

11:39

would be in the bed. I would have no

11:41

ability to say no. And Adam

11:44

just you really were like, no, they've

11:47

been in. They just have a really good relationship

11:49

to sleep and putting themselves to sleep, and you

11:52

really fought for that as a massive value

11:54

in the health of this family of four.

11:57

Yeah, I

11:59

need I'm not messing down. I

12:02

don't need to be getting kicked in my balls

12:04

every two hours in the bed by

12:06

I'll be like.

12:07

That was huge.

12:08

That was huge for us to like really

12:10

get comfortable and learn everything

12:13

there was to know about infants

12:16

and toddlers and kids

12:18

sleeping, because it's

12:20

a huge part of the early

12:23

part of parenting is the sleeping. I

12:25

can't tell you how many conversations I had

12:27

with friends and like

12:30

the unbelievable struggles

12:32

that they've been having with their kids sleeping

12:34

and not sleeping and getting in their

12:37

bed and wake up in the middle of the night and all that

12:39

kind of stuff. And we were

12:41

able to have access

12:44

through Katie's crib to some really

12:46

amazing information that we implemented

12:48

immediately.

12:49

And this was all happening for us in real time

12:51

too.

12:53

Like we started with sleeping and

12:55

nutrition and that was that those were two

12:57

things that we were able to put in there right

12:59

away.

12:59

And I yeah, I also think it

13:01

helps your marriage because there's

13:04

a middle person who's an expert telling

13:06

us what to do, versus one

13:08

parent struggling with

13:10

a differing opinion than another parent,

13:13

Like I think When Betsy Brown Braun came on,

13:15

she wrote the book, You're not the boss of me, and

13:17

just tell me what to say. And

13:19

Albi was having We were

13:21

having a lot of difficulty mitigating

13:24

the discipline waters with him.

13:27

A consequence needs to be related to

13:29

what the misstep was, and

13:31

more times than not, it will work.

13:34

Okay, let's say a kid hits another

13:36

kid. What's the consequence.

13:39

You are at a

13:41

pool party.

13:42

Okay, hitting is a I

13:44

mean, that's all. That's one of those topics. I

13:46

mean, I'd be asking you lots of questions. But

13:49

if we've walked into the party and I've said,

13:51

Alb, we're going to this party,

13:54

there will be other kids. If

13:56

there is a problem, you come and get me

13:58

and I will help you. We do

14:00

not hit. If you need

14:02

to hit, we will leave. Now,

14:05

the other part of this is maybe

14:07

he doesn't want to be there and he wants

14:10

to leave, so maybe he's.

14:11

Goes Okay, we're off.

14:15

No, but I understand that's a logical consequence,

14:18

right correct. He was

14:20

hitting kids, he was having tantrums.

14:23

And we had just brought Via into the world,

14:25

and her episode was so instrumental in

14:28

terms of like natural consequences. It

14:30

was like taking away the object we're

14:33

in said, are going to go away. You can't play with

14:35

her until you're ready to play with her in a

14:37

different way.

14:37

Yeah, Betsy had like the tiniest

14:40

little adjustments that you can make that

14:42

just made all the difference in the world. For example,

14:44

like even before we talked to Betsy,

14:47

it's like the you remember when we were talking

14:49

about Albie was having trouble sleeping.

14:52

At one point we had like a sleep trainer

14:54

to tell us, oh, he needs to eat

14:56

five minutes before you guys

14:59

are feeding him.

15:00

Yeah, that was Susie Monkey's

15:02

of the Healthy Little Sleepers episode.

15:05

Yeah, doctor mankys you now, and

15:07

she came in and she gave us this five

15:09

minute adjustment.

15:10

I just thought it was so ridiculous to hear.

15:13

And then all of a sudden you started feeding him five

15:15

minutes earlier, and it just made this giant

15:17

difference in the entire course of the night.

15:21

It's amazing.

15:22

How do you wean a baby off of nighttime

15:24

feedings in order to get

15:27

a longer chunk stretch of sleep.

15:30

So again, so the first feeding,

15:32

we want it after midnight.

15:34

Because their brains are going to develop if they go down

15:36

at seven pm and they sleep till midnight. That's a great

15:38

five hour developmental chunk.

15:40

Okay.

15:42

And then you

15:44

can do it a couple ways. You can push the

15:46

time out. So let's say two nights in a row,

15:48

they made it to twelve thirty okay, tomorrow

15:50

night, let's try and make it twelve forty five or one o'clock

15:53

okay. So you can push it out that way. You can also

15:55

reduce how much how much time

15:58

wise or that I

16:00

did, and kind of push it out that

16:02

way so they get their stomach is less full, right,

16:04

so they're not used to sleeping on a full stump.

16:07

No one teaches you this shit too.

16:10

How are you supposed to fucking know?

16:12

Well, there's a lot of books.

16:13

You can listen, there's a lot of books, but oh

16:15

my god, who's got time? I literally have

16:17

talked to one thousand moms between

16:19

this podcast and just living our lives, and I

16:21

don't think I've ever known any mom that is

16:24

actually finished. Yeah.

16:28

Also, everything's a phase. By the time

16:30

you think you've read a book on

16:32

the thing your kid is going through, it's changed

16:35

there. It's just so hard you're into

16:38

the next thing. Any particular

16:40

episodes or moments that touched

16:43

or changed you.

16:45

The one that really sticks out is when Kristen

16:47

Bell was talking about decks having

16:49

to suck out the uh the Clock blog

16:52

ducked.

16:53

So masitis is a

16:55

an infection.

16:56

It's a blocked milk duct.

16:58

So look, if your milk does come in, you

17:01

might feel like you suck and you have to go to formula.

17:03

Don't beat yourself up.

17:04

If your milk does come in and you have

17:06

too much milk like I did, your ducks

17:08

can get blocked very easily and you

17:11

still feel like you suck. Because what

17:13

can happen with mestitis is it gets

17:15

blocked, it starts to get sore. If you are

17:17

not so on top of that, you have to stand under

17:19

the shower, you have to put heat packs on it. You have to open

17:21

that duct up or get that baby to see it's so

17:23

painful. It's pretty painful in the

17:25

beginning when it's forming. If it goes to

17:27

the second stage and the baby doesn't suck it out, it

17:29

can get infected the third stage. After

17:32

if it gets infected, it can go to your blood and it's

17:34

like literally hospital, you could

17:37

die. So you have to be very serious

17:39

about mestitis, so serious.

17:42

I will never forget it dangle

17:44

feeding feeding,

17:47

dangle feeding so that the gravity helps

17:49

you know your boob. You're basically on all fours and

17:51

the baby's breastfeeding on the floor, so that maybe

17:53

the gravity will help pull the clog out. Guys,

17:56

this shit is horrifying and so hard,

17:58

and I'm pumping it on the masaging them, taking

18:01

diapers, filling them with hot water,

18:04

microwaving them for twenty seconds, and then taking a

18:06

steaming hot diaper

18:08

and placing it on my boob just trying to

18:10

like heat sometimes gets it out. Massage.

18:13

One time, I took a fucking thera gun. I don't

18:15

recommend this, please, I'm not a doctor. Don't listen

18:17

to me. Yeah, I took a thera gun to my boob.

18:19

But I got to

18:21

the point where I said to Adam, I've got the

18:23

worst duct. I'm so scared of getting mestitis. I'm

18:25

not gonna make it. The baby's

18:28

suction is not hard enough to get

18:30

it out, the pump isn't working. It's gonna have to.

18:31

Be Yeah, But because Dax did it, I

18:34

was like, I'm gonna do it too.

18:37

Had you not known that Dax had never

18:39

done it, do you think you would have said.

18:40

No, Yeah, I know. I just would have been like, what

18:42

are you talking about? This is insane.

18:44

There's gotta be a better way talk

18:46

about having to rupture and repair. That

18:48

would have taken a while for us to get over

18:52

the postpartum depression stuff

18:54

that you guys talked about. That really helped

18:56

me too, because there's

19:01

in a weird way, I think like when

19:04

you went through your postpartum is like maybe

19:06

when I had the most energy and most

19:08

time for parenting, and maybe

19:10

that was just the natural yin and yang of

19:12

the of a marriage and a relationship

19:15

that I felt.

19:15

Like you were not gone.

19:18

Yeah, you were not able to be there, and so I needed to

19:20

be there more and make

19:22

up for it or whatever. You know, It's just a hard

19:24

thing for me to understand having

19:27

not gone through it. And then those

19:29

episodes really put

19:31

that into perspective that really helped me out a

19:33

lot.

19:34

I had had other friends that were pregnant during the

19:36

pandemic alongside with me, and they had all

19:38

told me that once the baby was here, that

19:40

their anxiety and fears

19:44

diminished basically down to zero. And

19:46

that's what I was hoping for that I just had to

19:48

make it across the finish s line to bringing or here, And

19:51

what I slowly over the next four

19:53

to six weeks realized after Vera had been

19:55

here was that my experience took

19:57

a one to eighty from my friend's experiences,

19:59

and my anxiety and depression got

20:02

worse instead of better. And that's when

20:04

we knew I had to get more

20:06

help. And Rebecca again

20:10

was one of my first texts and jumped in, giving

20:12

me a plethora of other moms

20:14

who had been diagnosed with postpartum depression and anxiety,

20:16

who were on medication or not on medication,

20:19

or had been doing different things, so that I

20:21

had other moms who were ahead of me that I could talk

20:23

to and just ahead of you,

20:25

like their measures just kicked

20:28

in a week hire two

20:30

weeks, Rebecca being like, here

20:32

are all the moms I know

20:35

that have been diagnosed postcard impression, who are on zoloft,

20:38

who are breastfeeding who, And

20:40

I'm going to put you in touch with them so you can ask

20:42

them a billion questions about their experience

20:45

and blah blah blah. And so really you've been our

20:47

dula for life. And as

20:49

you can tell, I think you can both attest

20:51

since getting help and via

20:54

being here, I am doing

20:56

much better.

20:57

What do you think at them?

20:59

Yes, yes, yeah,

21:02

I would think that postpartum depression. Anyone

21:04

who's listening to this podcast. Not

21:06

only was Katie's Crib so instrumental in helping

21:09

us personally parent and

21:11

I hope it's helped you all listening, but

21:14

I'm really proud of some of the work

21:17

that I did and that we

21:19

all did together, and it definitely falls

21:21

in the one example

21:23

of that is the postpartum depression episodes,

21:26

and I hope that it just

21:28

provided women with some comfort.

21:31

And I know it has.

21:34

We walk on the street all the time and women

21:36

come up to you and they thank you for a very

21:38

specific episode. Think it's

21:40

so funny, but you never know what they're gonna

21:43

which episode they're going to bring up, or what they're going to say

21:45

they're going through. For

21:47

those listening, Katie has this uncanny

21:50

sort of personality trait where strangers

21:53

just open up to her in the most

21:55

personal ways. Right off

21:58

the bat, I'm talking and somebody

22:00

next there on the plane is going to be talking to her

22:02

about her menstrual cycle before

22:05

we take off.

22:06

It's because I just asked questions and

22:08

I don't think people get

22:12

asked questions from someone that actually

22:14

is listening.

22:16

Yeah, and that's.

22:18

What you do, though I don't ask you questions

22:20

or listen to you.

22:21

Yeah, yeah, when does that happen? That's why I

22:23

come on Katie's.

22:24

Crib, Yes, because I'll give you

22:26

way more attention on here.

22:27

Ah, this is the best. What else do you want

22:29

to talk about?

22:31

The other thing? I was super proud of? So the postpartum

22:33

depression anxiety journey sucked,

22:39

absolutely sucked, and I hope

22:41

and was awful and scary and

22:44

brought me to my fucking knees and

22:47

is the worst I've ever felt, the

22:49

most afraid I've ever been. I

22:52

do look back on it and I don't even feel

22:55

like that person. And you all really went through

22:57

that journey with me of learning about it, going

22:59

on metacation, being

23:02

able to get through it and get

23:04

back to work and get back to enjoying

23:06

parenting, because good lord, I

23:09

probably should have been on medication my entire

23:12

pregnancy with via in COVID because

23:14

I look back and I was such a shell

23:18

of a parent. I really was not available

23:21

during that time. But because of

23:23

you all, and because of the podcasts, and thank

23:25

god, the access to the doctors and psychiatrists

23:28

and therapists that I had access to, and my husband

23:31

texting my friends saying that something's

23:33

up, something's wrong.

23:34

Yeah, but that was because we had We had done

23:37

the episode in between now Be and Via,

23:39

so I kind of knew exactly

23:41

what was happening when it was happening,

23:44

and I immediately called I believe

23:46

episode threes guts.

23:51

I called her immediately and I was like, Katie's

23:54

struggling, and uh, you know, tell

23:56

me.

23:56

What to do here.

23:57

Oh, this is why an I'm sure it was the greatest husband

23:59

in the entire world, which is what I tell people

24:01

and what we learned from like Alissa Berlin, that

24:04

not only should there be a birth plan, but

24:07

there should be a post birth plan, which

24:09

is at about the three week mark

24:12

to the four week mark. If your

24:14

partner, mother, spouse, best

24:16

friend is looking at

24:19

you and they don't recognize who they see, and

24:21

the emotional ups and downs that

24:23

are more the post part and blues, which are

24:25

very common, but if that isn't shifting

24:28

towards you're just crying

24:31

all day, all night for no reason, having anxiety

24:33

attacks that are disproportionate to

24:35

what's going on. And you're not yourself.

24:38

I think the post birth plan

24:41

for your partners and caretakers

24:43

is to say, Hey, before I give birth this baby,

24:45

I just want to have a conversation with you that if I don't look like

24:47

myself at week three or four and I'm not

24:49

acting like myself, can you

24:51

call someone to help me? Or let's just make a

24:54

list of therapists numbers to have on hand.

24:57

That three week mark. If there's still stuff

24:59

going on, we've seguyed out of the baby blue

25:01

and we've segued into something bigger. Into those PMTs,

25:04

so pery natal mood and anxiety disorders

25:06

pery natals from conception through that first

25:09

year of life, and that's usually that time

25:11

period that we're looking at. And like we

25:13

said, mood and anxiety disorders, it's

25:15

depression, anxiety, obsessive

25:17

compulsive disorder, which I probably see the most

25:19

of.

25:20

Wow, yeah, what does that look like? What are the

25:22

symptoms of that? You know?

25:23

So it's that combination

25:26

of the obsession, this intrusive

25:28

thought that's just sticky and won't go away, and

25:31

then a compulsion or a behavior

25:33

you know, either mental or you know,

25:35

something in actuality that we do to

25:37

alleviate that anxiety. So we

25:40

all have intrusive thoughts in our lives, right, we

25:42

all have those, you know, weird thoughts of like, gosh, what

25:44

would happen if like the hatch on a plane

25:46

opens up? Absolutely and you're like, Okay,

25:49

that was weird. Someone who struggles with OCD,

25:51

it's like there's chewing gum stuck to the end of that

25:54

thought and they can't seem to shake it. And

25:56

the more it lingers, the more it starts to

25:58

build up this anxiety.

26:00

What do people do when

26:02

they see that we've made

26:04

it over the three week mark and

26:07

we're getting worse or we're not getting

26:09

any better.

26:09

And that's where your professional help comes in.

26:12

Psychotherapy is huge medication

26:15

when you know the right time in the right place.

26:17

Is awesome, absolutely and a huge.

26:19

Part of the picture. And again, here's one of those things where

26:22

there's so much stigma. But unless

26:24

you're in your that persons.

26:26

Shoes, no judgment, none,

26:29

because no one.

26:29

Should struggle or suffer when they have a baby.

26:32

That leads you back to like it takes a village

26:35

episode. I didn't

26:37

fully appreciate the

26:39

value in that, and now, especially

26:42

as the kids get a little bit older. I

26:44

always felt like when they were like babies, it was a little bit

26:46

more manageable. Now it's like there's

26:50

a Friday night comes along and I am exhausted

26:52

in the week and the kit and then like

26:55

our friends Jackie and Jason will invite

26:58

us over for like a Friday night dinner with a

27:00

bunch of kids.

27:00

And the village, Thank you God.

27:03

And it's I couldn't do it without

27:05

that kind of stuff.

27:06

I know, you literally hear Hallelujah,

27:08

like coming from the heavens. Besides

27:10

the postpartum depression work, I think the

27:13

other work that I'm so proud of on

27:15

Katie's Crib that I think has helped us

27:18

and we haven't even started to really see

27:20

how it's going to help us, was when

27:22

George Floyd was murdered and

27:25

was talking a lot to Shonda Rhymes

27:28

about how Katie's Crib can be used

27:30

as a platform to get moms

27:32

the information on how to be an

27:34

anti racist parent, how

27:36

do we get better, how

27:39

do we give our children a better

27:42

sense of vocabulary, how

27:44

to start with books, how to have

27:46

conversations about race.

27:48

And that reminds me of like the idea of having

27:51

not having one hundred minute conversation, but having

27:53

one hundred one minute conversations.

27:55

That's it.

27:56

It's got to be a part of your life.

27:58

And you take any opportunity

28:00

you can. It's such an opportunity

28:03

I see as learning moments when we're at a let's say

28:05

we're at lunch, right, Albi's done this before,

28:07

and he'll be like when he was little, he'd be like, Mommy,

28:09

why is that person skin black? Or

28:11

something like that, why does that person have a mole?

28:14

Before all the work we did on Katie's Crib

28:16

about that, I would have absolutely

28:19

done what my parents did, which is sh like we

28:21

don't talk about like that's rude, sweep

28:23

it under the yeah stupid shit like yeah bad.

28:26

And now thank god for Beverly

28:28

Tatum who came on the podcast

28:31

and all the oh my god, she wrote

28:33

the book why are all the black kids sitting at the same table

28:35

in the cafeteria? It's unfucking believable.

28:38

There are things that you can observe and point

28:40

out to help your child think

28:42

critically about those questions

28:44

and those

28:47

conversations, not just one but over

28:49

time, help them to ask

28:52

the question, well, who is missing from

28:54

this picture? You know? Why

28:57

is this happening in this way? And then

28:59

what could we do about it?

29:01

I really am so encouraged by

29:03

everyone saying, or a lot of people saying,

29:05

it's okay if you mess up or you're stumbling

29:08

at first.

29:09

And that is really something that's important

29:12

to remember. You can always come back

29:14

and say, you know, I was thinking

29:16

about that conversation we had yesterday

29:18

and I said this, but you know, I've

29:20

been thinking more about it, and what I really meant

29:23

was that, so let me tell you more about

29:25

that.

29:26

Right, everyone should go

29:28

back and listen to these episodes because they

29:31

should be learned and relearned and

29:33

heard often and read those

29:35

books. But because people have been doing

29:37

work on this stuff for a million years, and I was

29:40

just my first foray was thankfully

29:42

on this podcast, but knowing to

29:45

say to alb Oh that that person

29:47

has black skin, look at this person has

29:49

this, and I would do it proudly like wow,

29:51

I'm really I get to take advantage of this moment

29:54

versus be embarrassed or think that I'm doing something

29:56

wrong or think that he's wrong, like he's

29:59

curious about that people look different.

30:01

And and it was all because

30:03

of Beverly being on the podcast that I even knew how to respond.

30:06

There's also the idea that that she brought

30:08

up.

30:08

I think that you know that it's okay

30:11

to say, oh, that's a really interesting

30:13

question. I don't know the answer to that. Let's

30:16

maybe you and I go look

30:18

up what the answer.

30:19

Is to that.

30:20

You know, that's Sasha Sagan's episode.

30:22

Oh yeah, yeah, what.

30:24

Did they say when you said to them? Is

30:26

their God? Well, because I am scared,

30:29

like, I'm not gonna lie, like when Albi is old

30:31

enough to be like, is there

30:33

one? Like I still I don't

30:35

know when I don't know what I'm going to say?

30:36

Well, but I think that's the answer.

30:38

Is I mean, if this is how you feel.

30:40

Obviously, if you're devoutly religious, of.

30:42

Course go you know, of course say what you

30:44

believe.

30:44

But if you're skeptical or I

30:47

think I don't know, is a totally

30:49

acceptable answer.

30:52

There's so much value in a

30:54

teaching your kid that it's okay not to know the answer.

30:57

It's great, and teaching your kid

30:59

how to then go about finding out that answer

31:02

instead of just making up something that maybe

31:04

we were taught when we.

31:05

Were kids, or feeling like because

31:07

I'm the parent, I should know the answers.

31:09

I know this to make it up.

31:11

And if your kid asks you something about race,

31:13

something that's difficult, god, death,

31:16

sex, anything and you

31:18

don't know, rather than make

31:20

some shit up, it's better for you to be

31:22

like, you know what, that's a great question. I

31:25

don't know the answer one hundred percent. I'm

31:27

going to go find out my answer

31:29

and I'll come back to you. And days later, after

31:32

you've called your village, after you've read

31:34

some blurbs online from experts that you

31:36

highly respect, after you've listened to episodes of Katie's

31:38

Crib, you come back to your kid and you say, hey,

31:40

you remember when you asked me this. I

31:43

actually did some research and my answer is

31:45

this. I was not given a vocabulary

31:47

to talk about race growing up because my parents didn't

31:49

talk about it. Similarly, sex either.

31:52

They didn't talk about books that

31:54

are developmentally appropriate for the age.

31:57

Is a great way in

32:00

to know how to talk about it, do you

32:02

know what I mean? And we've done tons of

32:04

episodes with links to books

32:07

of what you could read on those topics. Think you talking

32:09

about sex though? In one hundred minute conversations.

32:11

I always think about you and your dad Adam

32:13

and how much he fucked.

32:15

Instead of one hundred minute conversation or one

32:18

hundred and one minute conversations, it was just one

32:20

one minute conversation.

32:22

Tell the story about sex. Your parents never

32:24

talked to you about sex before this one minute?

32:27

I don't believe so. No, it was literally

32:30

it wasn't even a minute. It was just it was a couple

32:32

sentences right as we were getting off the exit

32:34

of four ninety five dropping me off at my

32:37

dorm freshman year.

32:38

It was a little late.

32:39

Ten years old. You're being dropped off at you to presee

32:41

your Maryland. Your dad's driving you from Philadelphia

32:44

to Maryland. You're literally pulling off

32:46

the exit, and what does he say?

32:48

You know, to use protection? Right, Yep,

32:51

got it done. Let's talk about what

32:53

we're doing for lunch.

32:55

Was so on.

32:55

That was the extent.

32:57

That is not okay, but tis

33:00

credit though.

33:00

I I took a

33:02

lot of supplemental sexual education

33:05

outside of school. Wow,

33:08

Like my synagogue had stuff about AIDS

33:11

and health these health

33:13

stuff. There was a lot of stuff. I became like a youth

33:17

AIDS expert.

33:19

On that's awesome.

33:20

I know that, Yes, I knew what was.

33:23

Up when our kids are early

33:25

bloomers, especially our daughter. We're

33:27

going to come back on this podcast. It's going

33:30

to be called Katie's Crib the teen Years, and

33:32

Adam is going to be

33:35

a fucking disaster area. Like he

33:37

looks at the teens walking around La,

33:40

the girls who are like twelve years old

33:42

wearing just it's

33:44

I always ask Katie.

33:45

I'm like, is that girl twelve or

33:47

forty seven? Like I have no, I

33:51

don't understand these kids. Wait,

33:54

Katie, Yes, this was one

33:56

that I thought was really instrumental

33:58

for you. Oh what

34:01

remember Sfali?

34:03

Oh yeah, huge.

34:05

She said that you get

34:07

the kid that is going

34:09

to teach you the most.

34:14

This was the one book that Kerrie

34:16

Washington told me to read, which I read a

34:18

lot of it. I actually read a lot of it.

34:19

You just always said wow, like the kids like

34:23

Albi does. It's

34:25

like the one.

34:26

Thing I can't handle is what he does, or the

34:29

one thing I don't want to talk about is what he wants to talk

34:31

about right now. And she

34:33

always says that you get the kid that is

34:35

going to teach you the most about life,

34:39

and maybe they're actually going to like help

34:41

you round out the person that

34:43

you are.

34:44

It's supposed to bring you to the next

34:47

level. I mean, if you want to go conscious

34:49

of conscious that the life's

34:51

lessons are can

34:54

get you so far, and you're gifted a child

34:56

who Albi has

34:59

completely rocked me human

35:02

being, and I'm convinced that

35:04

this is Vera later for you.

35:09

Do you think that's good to be true? Because

35:12

Albi doesn't bring you what

35:15

does to you what he does to me?

35:17

Yeah, oh for sure.

35:18

But I think Vera will be the child to

35:20

get you to your next level of consciousness in

35:22

her entire about nine years

35:24

old to sixteen.

35:25

Yes, I agree. I know already already.

35:29

Explain why and why Vera

35:31

is your greatest challenge.

35:32

Alby and I just have such a shorthand for

35:35

me. It's so easy to sort of

35:37

parent him, teach him and

35:40

talk him, talk him in circles

35:42

until he's doing what he thinks that

35:44

he's decided, but it's really what I need him to do, like

35:47

that kind of stuff with Albion.

35:49

Oh, I am fucking terrible.

35:51

When I realized that we had a child that

35:53

you had to do reverse psychology

35:56

on, I was like, I am fucked,

35:58

Like I cannot, but that

36:01

is not where I go instinctually

36:03

it is not.

36:05

But you also say you, I mean,

36:07

this is something that I say to you all the time. You

36:09

say I cannot do this.

36:11

I not not, not as if it's like a

36:14

mantra.

36:15

Really you can do A good point.

36:18

He's almost six, and I

36:20

can honestly say at the time of the recording

36:22

of this podcast that I am so

36:26

proud and excited and

36:28

interested in the person he

36:30

is and who he's becoming.

36:33

Totally.

36:34

Yeah, But at three I was not

36:38

well about this whole thing. I

36:41

was, what do you think animals that faith?

36:43

I don't know. Not well,

36:46

I don't know mom

36:49

is there. We're just a very different

36:51

worlds.

36:53

Why extrapolate?

36:55

I don't know what you mean by not well

36:58

with it? Like it's hard, but

37:00

I don't like it, doesn't. I

37:02

just think that there's such a different emotional

37:05

component to being a mom.

37:07

And being a dad, Like.

37:10

It's very easy for me to compartmentalize,

37:12

like disciplining Albee and then

37:14

moving on with my debt.

37:16

It's not like crushing me to my soul.

37:18

It crushes me to my soul.

37:21

But that might just be me. Okay, how

37:23

has this podcast strengthened our relationship

37:26

as a couple.

37:28

I think one thing that's done is taken

37:31

away obstacles. There's

37:33

so many things that as a couple we can be

37:35

tripping over and causing conflict when

37:37

it comes to parenting. But having just

37:40

this wealth of knowledge coming out

37:42

of Katie's Crib has really

37:45

helped smooth things out. We

37:47

didn't hit roadbumps that we probably

37:49

would have if we hadn't been listening to

37:51

these experts.

37:52

One hundred percent. So everybody listening.

37:55

Tell your friends if you want to save your

37:57

relationship, listens

37:59

to Katie's Crib, because what these experts

38:02

say make parenting easier,

38:04

which makes being in your relationship

38:06

easier.

38:07

Exactly.

38:19

Okay, could you want to bring an Albi first

38:21

or Via first? Albi will flip out

38:24

if Vera goes first.

38:25

Okay, let me go get them.

38:26

Okay, thanks, baby,

38:31

my god, I'm so sorry. In advance. There's

38:33

no telling what he will say. There is just no telling.

38:36

He's quite fair. Oh

38:39

my, I

38:43

gotta take a picture of this. I'm

38:45

like emotional right now. My son

38:47

and my husband are looking

38:49

through the camera at me, and they're in the other

38:52

room in the house. Hi Albi, hi,

38:54

elmmy, Hi sweetie,

38:58

I'm really happy to see you.

39:00

Can you tell us how old are

39:02

you?

39:03

Five and three quarters?

39:05

Wow?

39:06

And what is your

39:08

favorite thing to do? Right now?

39:11

Be a ninja?

39:12

Oh?

39:13

Yeah, do you?

39:14

I'm real ninja?

39:15

You are a real ninja? Is that what

39:17

you want to be when you grow up?

39:19

Already?

39:21

Of course you're all right.

39:22

I would team all my headquarters over there.

39:25

At your headquarters over there? I see

39:28

Albi. Can you tell our listeners what

39:31

is it like having me as a mom?

39:33

Very good?

39:35

It is like the best.

39:39

You're gonna make me cry? What's

39:42

your favorite thing to do with me?

39:44

Be you a few? Play?

39:47

What do you like to play together?

39:49

I really like to play even more with you

39:51

on Saturdays and Sundays where I don't

39:53

have to go to school.

39:55

Oh yeah, what is it that we play?

39:57

You played games?

39:59

What kind of game? Ms Land?

40:02

Oh yeah, we've played candy Land a lot? Okay,

40:05

question for you? Do I yell

40:07

at you a lot?

40:08

Yes?

40:09

What I do?

40:11

Not?

40:11

Yes?

40:12

You do?

40:13

Do I put you in timeouts a lot?

40:16

Oh?

40:16

My goodness, that is not true.

40:19

You haven't been in a timeout? And how many years.

40:22

You gave me? So many times? You

40:25

give me some timeouts? But daddy game

40:27

is so many when.

40:28

I was free, okay for listeners,

40:30

Just to clarify, I really

40:32

think in total, Albi's been in three

40:35

to five timeouts in his entire life,

40:37

and not one since he was three, and he's currently

40:39

five and three quarters. I love you, honey,

40:42

Oh, five and three quarders. Yeah, you're five

40:44

and three quarters.

40:45

You said free?

40:45

And can you tell me? What's

40:48

the game we play at dinner? What are the questions?

40:50

We go around the dinner table and ask please,

40:54

We asked questions like.

40:55

What are you what are

40:57

you grateful for? Are

41:00

you scared about? What

41:02

are you anything about?

41:04

What was the hardest part of your day? What

41:06

was the best part of your day? What's

41:09

your favorite book to read?

41:10

My favorite book to read gotta

41:14

be my Pokemon book.

41:15

Yeah, we love Pokemon. We're

41:18

super into Pokemon. Okay, who's

41:20

stricter? Me or Daddy?

41:22

Both? Because

41:28

if you say that, I don't want to make anyone

41:31

not because it's like, who do I

41:33

like more? Daddy or mommy? I

41:36

don't want I don't want to get mad I

41:38

both.

41:40

Oh, I understand why you said that. That

41:42

makes sense. You

41:44

love me and daddy and some days you

41:46

love me more and some days you love daddy more,

41:48

but you love us both so much

41:51

like I.

41:51

Don't like any I don't love any of

41:53

you more any day. Both

41:56

of you the same every day.

41:58

Oh, I understand. So it's like how I love

42:00

you and Vera the same the most possible,

42:02

every day, all day. That's so kind

42:04

of you, baby. What else

42:07

do you want to say to all the listeners listening?

42:10

The two ninja questions?

42:12

Oh?

42:12

Yeah, monster one? And being in ninja?

42:14

Okay, okay? How does it feel being a ninja?

42:18

Very good?

42:19

Oh?

42:20

Okay, that's good? And what did you want me to ask you about

42:22

monsters.

42:23

If you're afraid of if?

42:26

Like, are you afraid of monsters? Albie?

42:29

No, I'm alb Shapiro. They were afraid

42:31

of me.

42:32

Oh I

42:34

like that answer. What's

42:38

your favorite joke to tell?

42:41

I don't have one?

42:42

I know. Do you remember we used to do those joke books

42:45

and you had it memorized backwards and forwards. We got

42:47

to pull that back out at night? Who's

42:50

there?

42:52

Chicken?

42:53

Chicken?

42:53

Who chicken? Because

42:55

I'm an animal?

43:00

Good one, buddy? Can you tell me are

43:02

you having feelings about starting kindergarten?

43:05

No?

43:06

Just tell me about it.

43:08

But I said I'm going to be nervous.

43:10

But you're not nervous.

43:13

What are you feeling about kindergarten? What are the feelings

43:15

you have about it?

43:17

If I had to go to camp where

43:21

to like the sleep camp, I'll be

43:23

nervous because I do not want.

43:25

To sleep the No, you're

43:27

you do not have to go to sleep boy camp now

43:29

or ever. If you don't want to. We will just continue

43:31

that conversation as you get older, and

43:34

we'll make a decision whatever you

43:36

feel comfortable with. Are you

43:38

excited about kindergarten?

43:40

Yes?

43:41

What are you excited about?

43:43

I don't even know what's there.

43:46

We saw one time they had a lego class.

43:48

They have a robotics class,

43:52

the Lego one. God, we

43:56

dropped our headphones. Okay,

43:58

back guys, Okay,

44:05

I'll be We have to interview Vera now. But

44:08

is there any other last things you want to tell

44:10

me or Daddy or any

44:12

of our listeners.

44:14

Fair being, I'm grateful

44:16

for being a ninja and my family.

44:19

I love it. Say peace out, love

44:23

you. Okay,

44:26

Now let's get Via and she's gonna say two

44:28

words. You could

44:30

be with me.

44:31

Okay, but we gotta.

44:34

More questions.

44:35

We'll ask you more questions later, tell them

44:37

to come over here.

44:38

Go get Via and go see out of mommy in her office.

44:40

Yeah, God, now Vera's

44:42

coming in the cloth and okay, you know what,

44:44

I'll put her right here out of It's all right, Okay.

44:47

Can I have some room for Vera to be in the mic?

44:49

Oh?

44:50

No, baby girl, come here, sweetie.

44:53

Okay,

44:58

okay, ready, here we go.

45:02

Okay, we're here. We're here.

45:05

We're not playing around.

45:06

Now, Okay,

45:09

Vera? Can I ask you a few questions?

45:12

What?

45:12

Okay? What's your name?

45:15

Vera?

45:16

How old are you? Are

45:18

you too? You see, daddy?

45:21

How old are you?

45:23

Very?

45:24

Daddy?

45:25

And Vera?

45:26

Hi? Vera?

45:28

Vera? How old are you

45:31

too? Yeah? You're too. Can

45:33

you tell me what was the

45:35

hardest part of your day so

45:37

far? It's really early in the morning. What

45:39

was the hardest part of your day? I

45:44

twinkle? Okay,

45:46

what's the scariest part of your day?

45:49

Daddy? What do you want to talk

45:51

about? You want to sing a song?

45:54

Yeah?

45:56

Oh, she's moving her tongue around because she's real psyched

45:58

that she can see her own face. Sing me

46:00

a song?

46:02

Take how?

46:10

Why? What?

46:12

What do you.

46:13

A nice ending?

46:16

Wow?

46:17

Is there any other song you want to sing? No,

46:21

who is your best friend? Is it

46:24

Albie? How

46:27

am I doing as a mom?

46:29

Abby?

46:29

Yeah? Albi is going to go to school? Do you want to go to school

46:32

with him? You can just

46:34

drop him off. You don't have to go to school today.

46:36

Go daddy.

46:38

You want to go to daddy?

46:39

Mommy?

46:40

Oh?

46:40

You want mommy

46:43

mommy? Okay, yeah, we're gonna go play.

46:45

Do you want to go to the park? Wait?

46:47

Can you tell me something? How am I doing as a mommy?

46:51

You want to go to the park. Okay, we're gonna

46:53

go to the park. But wait, how

46:55

am I doing as a mommy? Okay?

46:58

Do you want to say bye bye?

47:00

Bye bye?

47:02

Babby?

47:03

She said, bye bye? I love you,

47:04

I love you.

47:07

Great job in

47:20

wrapping up

47:22

up key. The

47:25

first thing I want to say is a huge takeaway

47:27

of mine. I mean, there are so many

47:29

and Adam, thank you so much for coming

47:31

on the podcast say and reminding us about so

47:34

much of the stuff we've done that has helped

47:36

us, and I hope has helped all of you. I

47:39

always here it's not our job

47:41

to mold them. We unfold them.

47:44

And I don't even know if anyone said

47:46

that on the podcast. I don't know where I picked that up,

47:49

but I feel a

47:51

great sense of surrender and

47:54

release in parenting when I know that

47:56

it's not my job to make

48:00

I'm a person.

48:01

It's already, it's in there already.

48:03

Of course, it's our job to teach them to be

48:05

kind and to teach them manners, and to

48:08

teach them about saving the planet

48:10

and helping people and being better than we've

48:12

all been. Of course, but the

48:15

pressure is really that's a lot

48:17

of pressure, but it makes me feel

48:19

like there's less pressure in that it's not

48:22

my job to sign them up for a thousand

48:24

things, to

48:27

have them be perfect all the time

48:29

and say the right things or wear the right clothes

48:31

or make sure that they're like succeeding

48:34

every single day. It's just our

48:36

job to love them and support

48:38

them for who they are. And

48:41

it just makes me feel like I'm

48:43

gripping the steering wheel

48:45

of parenthood far less tightly.

48:48

And that's been a massive relief. That's

48:51

sort of a big overall takeaway that I've

48:53

gotten from six seasons of this show. Yeah,

48:56

I think I would be even more anxious

48:59

and even more controlling,

49:01

if you can believe it.

49:03

Okay, no, that's

49:06

huge. That's huge.

49:08

In wrapping up, how do you think

49:10

I'm doing as a mom?

49:12

Killing it?

49:13

Do?

49:14

Really?

49:15

Of course this

49:17

place would fall apart without you. Well,

49:23

we both have.

49:23

Our own strengths when it comes to parenting. We

49:26

both have our own strong points

49:28

during the actual course of a day,

49:31

and I think that those

49:34

things are going to change a lot as the kids get

49:36

older. But there are

49:39

a lot of things that you do that there's no

49:42

fucking way I could do that. You

49:45

create an amazing community for the kids

49:47

and of other parents and moms,

49:50

and you've been super

49:52

helpful inside and outside of Katie's

49:54

Crib to moms everywhere, and I think

49:57

that's also come back to us

49:59

in a lot of amazing ways over the past

50:02

five and a half years. I'm

50:04

so glad that we could have

50:06

this podcast for the first five years of ALBI,

50:09

in the first two years of your's life.

50:11

It's just it was an amazing thing

50:14

for us to go through, and I hope that the

50:16

listeners felt the same way about their

50:19

own journeys and parenting.

50:22

Adam Shapiro, Man, Am I lucky. You're

50:25

a great.

50:26

Dad, You're a great

50:28

mom. Katie.

50:29

We're doing okay. We're gonna work.

50:32

This is happening, Adam, thank

50:34

you for being my final guest. Obviously,

50:37

in so many ways, I couldn't do any of

50:39

this without you.

50:44

Katie Crap Baby.

50:46

We love you all so much. I'm

50:48

so thankful to all of our listeners,

50:51

all the fans, every mom who

50:53

stops me on the street and sobs in my

50:55

arms. I've got you. I'm here for you. I

50:57

will continue to be here for you. There

51:00

are some things in the work, so don't hold

51:02

your breath. There's exciting stuff coming.

51:04

Katie's Big Girl Bed. Katie's

51:09

Big Girl Bed could be the podcast

51:11

for the children.

51:13

That's hilarious. And now

51:15

I'm not going to cry. I'm not going to cry.

51:18

But this is so momentous.

51:21

Is that the word that's very momentous

51:24

occasions?

51:27

I can't believe.

51:27

I'm here for it.

51:39

Stay tuned for more information. You can always

51:41

find me on the socials.

51:44

I want to hear from you always, and

51:46

I just want to say again, from the bottom

51:48

of my heart, thank you. Katie's

51:53

Grim is a production of Shondaland Audio in

51:55

partnership with iHeartRadio. For more

51:57

podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iheartradi

52:00

you app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen

52:02

to your favorite shows.