0:11

And we are back with an all

0:13

new episode of Keep It. I'm

0:16

Ira Madison the Third." I'm Lewis Fertile

0:18

and if you identify as a Barb

0:20

or a Barbie fan, I am

0:22

so sorry about this week. I... you really fell

0:24

off the rails. Sorry,

0:27

I'm scared for you and for me and for

0:29

us talking about it. But we are going to

0:31

talk about it. The girls are down

0:34

bad this week. It

0:36

is so funny that this is all connected to

0:38

the Barbie movie in a way. Yes, right. Because

0:42

of Barbie World, Nicki Minaj's song,

0:44

and when we get into that,

0:47

we'll talk about how she dragged Megan

0:50

The Stallion's song with Renee Rapp,

0:52

which is very rude. We enjoy the song.

0:54

I'm sorry. This may

0:56

be Renee Peking. I don't mean to insult

0:58

the girl, but I really enjoy the song.

1:03

So it started out with

1:05

hashtag HillaryBarbie. I'm

1:08

honestly too daunted to do this episode. I think I actually have

1:10

to leave this video. The Hillary Come On It. The

1:13

Hillary Barbie to Bigfoot. What

1:16

a week. What a week in pop

1:18

culture we've had. But, Lewis,

1:20

before we get started, I believe you

1:23

had a burning question. Yes. What

1:25

is Argyle? Do I have to be seeing

1:27

it? First of all, every person

1:29

is in it, including Mr. Samuel L. Jackson.

1:32

Just all these choices feel

1:34

shocking. Did you see the single that

1:37

came out with Boy George and Ariana

1:39

DeBose? Did you know that they were

1:41

in Argyllia or wherever we're at? Oh,

1:44

okay. Well, that's

1:47

not helping the singing rumors.

1:51

It's an old-fashioned disco song, as

1:53

in Nyle Rogers is the producer, so it's

1:55

designed to sound like 70s disco. I

2:00

have to say good lane for Ariana

2:02

to boast See kind of has the

2:04

pipes and and energy for that you

2:06

know. bringing back like said that the

2:09

feel of fast speeds these or whatever

2:11

the emotions or that kind of a

2:13

taste of honey things that sound like

2:15

that. This has

2:17

such an insane cast.

2:19

Added it, it's it.

2:22

feels right. com. If

2:25

you prefer those kings when movies.

2:27

Bribery was a proper job op

2:29

but it has Henry Council do

2:31

a leap. Ah. Bryce

2:34

Dallas Howard are ya

2:36

to do both? Sam

2:38

Rockwell song Sina Samuel

2:40

L. Jackson, Bryan Cranston,

2:42

Catherine Oh Hara. Rob.

2:45

Delaney Viola Davis is

2:47

manifest House. Member

2:50

was out of it emerged either way or another

2:52

weenie member he was in Mission Impossible that he

2:54

just as like infiltrated ever with this used to

2:56

be somebody who said on twitter all that I

2:58

mean it's just it's very interesting. Not all the

3:01

people who are like twitter jockeys in two thousand

3:03

and Taiwan to you know illustrious career is like

3:05

grub. Delaney made it happen. He.

3:07

Really did and I feel like he still

3:09

towards as a comedian and so he would

3:11

run around. Yeah. We'll

3:13

see me modules for some. I

3:17

want to talk about do a

3:19

libra in Argyle because the press

3:21

tour Argyle has. Had

3:24

a lot of bad looks. Okay. I

3:26

don't know what's going on with the red hair. A

3:29

feels like everybody has a bright red hair

3:31

moment. So you know I? I don't know.

3:33

Fianna made that you know, sort of cannon.

3:36

But. Everybody sort of has that moment. I'm

3:38

just I'm wondering if from viewing the Do

3:40

era I do your i currently like like

3:43

half an era at the moment. Like a

3:45

tramp. You know, like when Casey Musgrave followed

3:47

up the album of the year when with

3:49

that kind of. Slow. As.

3:52

Affirmation of her talents as opposed to

3:54

a big moment. Maybe the next album

3:56

will be the you know the vr

3:58

a high point. Again, that's. Yeah,

4:00

well I think that duly but is a good

4:02

album art As so, I am eagerly awaiting the

4:04

album. Just. Who

4:07

Genius Fine episode aired and

4:09

Danny horrible and on Kevin

4:11

Parker from Tame Impala I

4:13

do trust. However, I.

4:15

You know if I like the slipper

4:17

that we heard from training session of

4:19

whatever the new album was that with

4:22

the right cover she's she's hanging on

4:24

a Paul. Ah. Very.

4:26

Britney ones who three video.

4:29

I feel like do a libor is

4:31

an artist who would be great a

4:33

seeds in one of those old school

4:35

arm. Weights. Be

4:37

out say Rian are even like

4:39

twenty eight days of like he

4:41

has a camp. You. Know

4:43

invite a bunch of great artist to make

4:46

songs for you and then picked which best

4:48

ones as the like button is sometimes you

4:50

just as like a singular like people's he's

4:52

working with and we'll see how it turns

4:55

out I am too. I mean like who

4:57

d to me had for single energy Slim

4:59

yeah as I think there was some rejiggering

5:02

like she changed one song or that switch

5:04

something out south on him and at that

5:06

said like the song from the Barbie movie

5:08

grew on me. Didn't. Think there would

5:10

as I thought it was. maybe a little whole

5:13

home at first, but then there's something about. Her

5:15

songs l I think her attitude within the

5:17

songs and sort of worms or way into

5:19

the subconscious. There's like a cool season a

5:21

large out right and she's a star at

5:23

her voice is just so I love her

5:25

but is is as I love your it

5:27

was your and do a speak on apparently

5:29

or pozzo added is good you know it

5:31

was in the those but. It

5:35

is good it has got. I like her podcast

5:37

and newsletter. It's weird to think of her be

5:39

to pop star who has. Thoughts.

5:42

right that exists i guess what i see

5:44

sticky is he thinking of say yet i

5:46

avidly avoid madonna's so i you know it's

5:48

like i know some of them have thoughts

5:50

but i can't be here in i'm in

5:52

on a plane from an abyss brought amy

5:54

schumer out for votes bit but like they

5:56

are kind of like i'm not surprised because

5:58

of course free or whatever Madonna

6:00

would scream. But secondly, Amy

6:03

did promo for Madonna's celebration tour, right?

6:06

Like she did the, that

6:08

video where they're all sitting around the table and then, it's

6:11

like a truth or dare style clip where she's

6:13

daring Madonna to go on a big greatest hits

6:15

tour. So I'm not surprised to

6:17

see her come back. Contractually obligated, as

6:20

it were, you know, like Sarah

6:23

Silverman and Maestro. We've

6:25

talked about Maestro being bad so much,

6:27

by the way, but we have not

6:30

truly addressed how horrible Sarah

6:32

Silverman is in that movie sounding

6:34

like a

6:37

mobster's mall the entire time.

6:39

By the way, lots of interesting accent choices in

6:41

that movie. I mean, like it's

6:43

borderline a muppet Christmas Carol. What's going on in

6:45

that movie? So

6:49

anyway, I will forgive Madonna if it

6:51

was a contract thing, but you know,

6:54

pull out the Ouija board. Okay. Ask Tupac what

6:56

he would think. Okay. I

6:58

don't think the Shakur's, just

7:02

all of them would be supporting Miss Schumer.

7:05

Okay. Talk to that

7:07

painting of Basquiat you threw out

7:09

or whatever. Ask what it wants.

7:11

Yeah. Do

7:14

you know we are getting like multiple Basquiat

7:16

projects? That's about right. Cause we only

7:18

know like three names from the art world anymore.

7:20

And so it's like IP. We have to keep

7:22

working with, you know, it's like, it's like Snow

7:24

White or whatever. It's going to keep coming back.

7:26

Last week we talked about Jeffrey Wright and like

7:28

he was in Basquiat earlier on. Yes.

7:31

And he didn't get nomination for

7:34

that. He should have. But I do

7:36

know we have one project

7:38

coming out. Apparently Lena Waithe is

7:40

working on something about Basquiat's sisters.

7:43

And then there is the

7:46

adaptation of that awful play that I

7:48

saw starring Paul Bettany and Jeremy Pope

7:50

last year on Broadway, which is going

7:52

to be happening. So I think that

7:55

we'll be getting a lot of Basquiat

7:57

stuff, but still. not

8:00

the project that we've been talking about

8:02

on this show for years, Lewis. Where

8:04

is the Basquiat Madonna story? Well, also,

8:06

it's like, don't say it too loud. Madonna

8:08

will just fucking write it and then we'll

8:10

have to see it. And then she'll be,

8:13

as I've said a thousand times in this

8:15

show, I just find her way too enamored

8:17

with having known famous male artists. Like it

8:19

should be that they knew you is what we're

8:21

obsessed with. But I don't know. She's like, it's,

8:24

it's, it reminds me of that interview. Cher did

8:26

talking about her career where she said, one, I'm

8:28

not a Cher fan because which kind of

8:30

makes sense. Like she's not really the audience

8:32

for that kind of pop music, but two,

8:34

she said she would be so intimidated in

8:36

the 70s, hanging out with like Jack Nicholson

8:38

and Jellica Houston and saying these people are

8:41

making this great art. And I was stuck

8:43

making Dark Lady. It's like, you know, Dark

8:45

Lady has outlasted plenty of other things from

8:47

that time, plenty of other Jack Nicholson movies.

8:49

And I'll ask her Heartburn. Yes.

8:51

Oh, Heartburn not good, not nor as best.

8:54

And then of course we learned on Drag Race this week that maybe

8:56

Dark Lady isn't as well known as we want it to be. We

8:58

get into this with our guests this week, by the way. Speaking

9:02

of artists that people should really be digging

9:04

into, by the way, besides Basquiat, where's

9:07

the Keith Haring work? By the way, well, that's

9:09

going to be coming because people still don't know

9:11

that name too. And you see that design all

9:13

over the place. It's always incorporated into one thing

9:15

or another. Yeah. There is

9:18

this great profile in the

9:20

document journal about Sean Dickerson,

9:22

who works in Nightlife

9:24

in New York. He's been around for 40 years.

9:26

I see him all the time when I go

9:28

out, but just basically talking about, you know, 40

9:30

years ago about Keith Haring and

9:32

those people, you know, hanging out in New York

9:35

and going to parties and about how Keith would

9:37

always come up and talk to

9:39

him and like just chatting with people at the

9:41

club and stuff. And I'm like, I really want

9:43

a biopic of one of these people to

9:46

get the vibe of what it

9:48

was like hanging out in

9:50

New York in the 80s, like going to parties

9:52

and clubs and things. I feel like so many

9:54

of these things are so dry. Yeah. You don't

9:56

get a sense of like the actual we're all

9:58

hanging out, having a time vibe like what

10:01

it was actually like to be there again I have

10:03

to recommend party girl in this way that to me

10:05

has a vibe of here are

10:07

the people who are here every week we're familiar with

10:09

each other in this way she's a mess because of

10:11

this he's amazing because of this yeah

10:14

more movies like that definitely I rewatch

10:16

that recently and it's it's so good

10:18

and it feels so much like New

10:20

York currently you know it's New York

10:22

just always sort of feels like that

10:24

if you're in that younger sphere of

10:26

going out and having fun

10:29

you know also by the way sometimes

10:31

I just listen to Studio 54 radio on

10:33

Sirius XM which by the way it's

10:35

basically a bunch of people mythologizing three

10:37

years in American history talking about this

10:39

one club when it existed when

10:42

and it's never not educational you find

10:44

out what it was like to be there and

10:46

seeing you know Halston lingering over a lies Manelli

10:48

or whoever and who randomly got to walk in

10:51

unaccompanied by anybody famous and who was never got

10:53

in and stuff so tune in every once in

10:55

a while well you know

10:57

I'm Parker Posey now because I have a monthly

10:59

party in New York I right you're in what

11:01

we call an impresario I prefer

11:06

do yet okay so does

11:08

Anna Rinter yeah that

11:11

bitch better watch out okay yes

11:14

before we get started though if you are in

11:16

New York come to that on Thursday at the

11:19

bar dingaling at 10 p.m.

11:21

it's called that thing where is my going

11:24

it's in it's on Avenue a in the East

11:26

Village oh you sounded like a character

11:28

from rent the way you just said that how exciting you know what

11:30

and I sing songs from rent when

11:35

I wander the street oh no

11:37

with my scarf I got

11:39

my camcorder oh my god cam

11:41

quarters what an awesome word that's like a

11:43

great 90s thing that should be brought back

11:45

in some way but not in an obnoxious

11:47

I'm a photographer way I just want to

11:49

hear the word camcorder off camcorders

11:52

and voice machines and talk boy

11:54

answering machine answering machine yes talk

11:56

boys I mean I just recently

11:58

watched a home alone for

12:00

Christmas. So the talk boy being in it, I

12:02

did have a talk boy. I did not. I

12:04

was so jealous because I would record my little

12:06

radio shows when I was a child, right? And

12:08

I had to do it on a normal recorder.

12:10

And do you know what else I would do?

12:12

Record game shows off the television with an audio

12:14

recorder. What was wrong with me? Like

12:16

I did this fine like an audio tape in

12:19

my parents closet and it's an

12:21

episode of Family Feud featuring two different sets

12:23

of Miss USA contestants. What is wrong with

12:25

me? I've

12:29

thought about bringing the camcorder back though

12:31

only because there's so much footage online

12:33

if you Google it and

12:35

look on YouTube or whatever of just

12:37

like type in like New York or

12:39

LA like 80s 90s like Fire

12:41

Island or Pride Festivals where people used to film

12:43

them the same way that we film shit with

12:45

our iPhones now. But you know, it

12:48

looks more like it is

12:50

archiving history. Yeah. It's like I'm

12:52

obsessed with old footage of Sunset Boulevard

12:54

in the 80s or 70s where it's

12:56

like it's just billboards everywhere and you

12:59

know, the whiskey of go-go is a

13:01

meaningful place to be or whatever the

13:03

Viper room and stuff that stuff. You

13:05

and Tarantino. Oh right. Yeah, definitely hanging

13:07

out at whatever vidiots and screaming about

13:10

Dario Argento or whatever. Well,

13:13

I think that we have delayed the yellow

13:15

volleyball for a little too long. We have

13:17

the exciting Sasha Velour here this week. We're

13:19

going to talk about her new tour, the

13:21

big reveal. We're also going to talk about

13:23

Real Housewives, which was shocking to

13:26

me. I didn't peg her for a Housebark walker. Me neither.

13:28

I sort of was digging. I said, well, we'll get to

13:30

the interview, but I'm like, what else are you into besides

13:32

drag? And she brought that up and I was like, okay,

13:34

well, I'll set this one out moving on. When

13:38

we get back, it's time to piss off some

13:40

barbs. Myself included. I'm

13:43

looking forward to that. It's

13:51

2024 and there's so much to do,

13:53

but it's hard to know where to start. If

13:56

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doom scrolling. Go to votesaveamerica.com/volunteer to get

14:18

started. Megan

14:26

Thee Stallion's latest single has dropped and

14:28

unsurprisingly the hoes are mad. Hoes

14:31

rarely happy. You'll find. Not

14:36

really accompanied with the zeal of life a hoe. Show

14:39

me a happy hoe. Sounds like the

14:41

beginning of an A-sop morrow. Show

14:47

me a happy hoe and I'll show you a

14:50

Madonna album post 2015 that's good. But

14:53

precisely. Confusing but we're almost there.

14:55

Yeah. Anyway most notably Nicki Minaj

14:57

was mad. But that's also that's

14:59

her comfortable space. I think she

15:01

prefers to be in a jilted

15:04

pissed state if you will. She

15:06

is a dungeon dragon. Yeah and

15:09

I don't know if you've seen Peach

15:11

Dragon recently but he was always you

15:13

know mad. Right right. Dragons have a

15:16

lot in common yes. Yeah

15:18

mostly because other people couldn't see him. Tough.

15:20

You know yeah imaginary and

15:23

I feel Nicki's been feeling like

15:25

she's imaginary lately. You know existentially

15:27

or whatever she's been ignored by

15:30

the rap game by everyone.

15:32

Let's let's talk about who Nicki's been

15:34

mad at lately. TikTok. Yeah. If you

15:36

if you recall this last week she

15:38

said that she was being censored on

15:40

TikTok. There is also an account I

15:43

do not remember the name of the

15:45

account. It's this white woman who holds

15:47

a coffee mug and does blind

15:49

items. Because there's so many accounts trying

15:51

to be doing more on TikTok. Apparently

15:54

she did a blind item about someone going

15:56

to rehab and heavily

15:58

insinuating it was Nicki. And then

16:00

Nikki and the Barbz were in

16:02

her mentions on TikTok harassing

16:05

her, et cetera. And

16:08

then she really just

16:10

kept going. She kept, kept

16:12

going in this woman's mentions

16:14

day in, day out, which was a precursor

16:16

to Megan dropping hiss.

16:20

And then Nikki then spending three

16:22

days tweeting Instagram

16:25

live-ing and

16:27

finally dropping Bigfoot which

16:30

she claimed at first wasn't a diss track.

16:32

It is very much a diss track. Excuse

16:34

me. The music drops out. Music,

16:36

by the way, liberally defined. The music drops out.

16:39

And then she just simply talks to

16:41

Megan and intimidates her and implies

16:44

she's lying about a number of things, including, by

16:46

the way, her dead mother. Can I just say

16:48

something? Lie on your dead mama. On your dead

16:50

mother. So

16:53

the fact that she's coming in with

16:56

that is crazy. I mean,

16:58

like in the tradition of Nicki Minaj, it's crazy.

17:01

But listen, I almost

17:03

got beat up in grade school because

17:05

I was trading Barbz. Remember

17:08

when Barbz just meant inspo? We love that. Trading

17:11

Barbz with someone and I threw out

17:14

a yo mama. In

17:16

living color classic. But someone's

17:18

like, his mom's a dang. That's

17:20

right out of pen 15, by the way. They

17:24

were ready to kick my ass. Shout

17:29

out to my cousin who stopped it. It

17:31

was like I didn't know, but I had to. I

17:35

was cornered in the alley girl. Beat

17:37

it video. It

17:41

took like two times in my life. I've been in like

17:43

a serious fight and that was. Anyway,

17:47

you're here now. Throwing out people's dead

17:49

mamas. Be careful. Wouldn't recommend

17:51

it. Also, that is just like

17:53

a little bit uglier than God likes it, my

17:55

love. Okay, God

17:57

Don't like ugly. There's

18:01

no good and bad here that assists

18:04

the ugly, Right? Right? As A As

18:06

the ugly? Yes, it's It's dust levels

18:08

of ugly. Okay, I

18:11

will say this now I see it in

18:13

the way that I cannot stand when people

18:15

talk about Trump intellects buddy as a little

18:17

bit funny. I'm about to do that right

18:19

now during that see smarter and the Track

18:21

but at some places because in order to

18:23

as you never. Know,

18:27

sometimes you sounds like it's like when Go Space

18:29

has been unmasked and they're just. Hold in Sydney

18:32

at gunpoint? Know I can imagine. Off Easy.

18:34

You know it's a given a little Laurie

18:36

metcalf and scream to and I got a

18:38

little nice happy. You know. Obviously.

18:41

I'm a big screen fan, but what

18:43

you said? Ghostface unmasked one of my

18:45

brain go to Space Ghost. Wow, I

18:47

have an imaginary mickey but I was

18:49

at the desk performing bigfoot spotlight a

18:51

space Ghost coast to coast. I would

18:53

be a really cool of her mind

18:55

and see that's actually way more in

18:57

line with Meghan the Stallion who apparently

18:59

her all of her tweets from Two

19:01

Thousand and Ten or Like eating cereal

19:03

and Monsters Buds Bob Love this life

19:05

I live in. A

19:08

spokesman try to like same her with these tweets and

19:10

they're all. Like. Extremely wave.

19:14

Professor my favorite for someone made

19:16

it seem like see was commenting

19:18

on Nicky's response rak Bigfoot the

19:20

to see wrote are held are

19:22

not that saw but it's a

19:25

treat for twenty or was ssssss

19:27

a slight what we were talking

19:29

about rolling in the day. What

19:31

is that? Yachts. Let's

19:35

talk about his bird as Meghan

19:37

Song to song that months or

19:39

thousand says some associates a lot

19:41

of people. Yes, Nicky gets hit

19:43

spurs. With. These Host or

19:46

be mad at Meghan, These hoes mad at Megan's Law.

19:48

Megan's. Law as like a punchline. I have to say

19:50

a little funny. I mean I get some hundred for me

19:53

but I mean go there I am in your name's man

19:55

so has. Out

19:57

of course, Beggars Law references. Sex

20:00

offenders asked to mister

20:02

address right. Basically. A

20:05

new A Whenever someone socket about

20:07

Nikki they reference or husband can

20:09

as petty convicted. Sex. Offender.

20:12

Who. Cannot leave his home. Let. Me to

20:14

say is it possible see Mary That Guy? Justice?

20:16

Exile or something? This is patty because there is

20:18

no more appropriate sober tap in the history of

20:21

Mississippi. Assess.

20:23

Assess Assess. Assess My It's like if I married

20:25

like oh my husband you know, Nick, Oscar, bits

20:27

internet me and like all works out of Africa.

20:31

Up. You

20:34

know what? our dirty I think I

20:37

saw ill I'm Mike Argyle is our

20:39

go amiss know at it's it's rude

20:41

asked Pleased I don't know. I can't

20:43

go further. A chorus what's

20:45

wilde is I see like the nastier

20:47

line was about as rates right The

20:50

are these things hate on B B

20:52

hours and Be wasn't around with the

20:54

same scars. We. Talked about

20:56

drugs bbl. It's we see this

20:58

season playing. This man had like an

21:00

ass List was implied that he gets plastic

21:03

surgeon can read the same scars. Okay that

21:05

works. We see him with transformations over the

21:07

reveals. A sauce of a loner would say

21:10

yes. Episodes Rates: Instagram where will. You

21:13

please open up like remember a gun

21:15

of these sleep.is a certain to a

21:17

Instagram influencer it like a get ready

21:19

with me girl is your i go

21:21

putting on a server buttons just okay

21:23

you're ago he still champagne poppy. Please.

21:26

Vote on that always is holding like an app

21:28

or all Spritz for real. A.

21:30

Whole the at average spreads M a

21:32

O luscious com or coats, right? I'm

21:34

walking through a hotel lobby. Isn't that

21:37

a cosmopolitan life of mine? Extraordinary your

21:39

dreyfus. If I. See

21:41

is what are the funniest. Rapids

21:44

I taught have used to be. ever

21:46

it's it's it's just that is the

21:48

general vibe of drake and then also

21:50

he'll be like i got killers is

21:52

that right people try to say that

21:55

you know he's a room with and

21:57

against alive but rosie footing with vaudeville

21:59

in life you know Queer-coded. Sure.

22:02

Taunting. Give him a cat. Yeah. Yeah.

22:06

That's it. Drake's a Bond villain. Drake is

22:08

definitely the kind of person who would explain the plan to you

22:10

for 30 minutes before he kills you. Now

22:12

which do you prefer, Hiss or Bigfoot?

22:15

Just as a song. And again, song I'm liberally

22:17

defining. Well one of them is a

22:20

song. Right. See, that's where we, I think,

22:22

Hiss wins. Yes. Hiss does

22:24

win. The video is better than the

22:26

song. I think

22:28

it's good. I still don't particularly love

22:30

the intro

22:33

in the middle part where she's just talking. I

22:36

get that that's the vibe of her TikTok, but

22:39

I'm trying to listen to a song. I'm

22:42

sure someone's going to make it into a TikTok sound

22:44

and then that'll help it go viral. These

22:47

are all the tricks of the trade, as

22:49

it were. But oh,

22:51

the beat goes in. I enjoy it. And

22:55

it's fun. It's a good

22:57

song. You know what? It's

22:59

just inconceivable to me that whatever Nicki is trying

23:01

to claim in this song, that people are going

23:03

to turn on Megan, what could have happened that

23:06

now we will just hate her? I mean, it

23:08

just doesn't make any sense to me. Well,

23:11

she's been lying on a dead mama. On a dead

23:13

mama. I just, meaning what? It's

23:16

so crazy. Okay.

23:18

So before she

23:20

released Bigfoot, did

23:23

you see the Instagram Live where

23:25

it's just her closet and she's

23:27

sort of repeating some of the

23:29

lyrics? And here's

23:31

the thing. If the internet is

23:33

clowning you before you even drop

23:35

the track because of the lyrics,

23:39

one foot, two feet, get up on your good

23:41

foot, Bigfoot. Like maybe that just means things aren't

23:43

going in the way that you'd hoped. Right.

23:46

This is like a beta testing. You

23:48

threw it out there and oops, it's

23:51

not that great. Also just being in the closet

23:53

and she's sort of murmuring to herself, it's giving

23:55

Howard Hughes with the PU jars in the closet.

23:58

It's concerning. Yeah,

24:00

well, considering her husband, that's why she's in the

24:02

closet, you know? R. Kelly loved to hang out

24:04

there. Okay. He

24:06

was trapped there, in fact. Right, yeah, in

24:09

13 installments, or however many. Yeah.

24:12

Speaking of installments, that's my favorite thing that Nicki

24:14

keeps bringing up in Bigfoot. She's like, I'll save

24:16

that for the next installment. Like,

24:20

she's some performance artist. Honestly,

24:23

by the way, side note, if you're talking

24:25

about the ones, the only thing in culture

24:27

that is really, it's just sort of like

24:29

really vanished now that we've taken R.

24:31

Kelly out of the equation, is

24:35

how utterly insane the trapped-in-the-closet saga

24:37

was. Oh. When it first

24:39

came out. Oh, no. I mean, it was because it

24:42

was funny. It was. And also, we didn't need to see

24:44

it 176 times, as he thought we did. And

24:48

they went to a point where they brought in midget comedy, and

24:50

I said, I have – this is where I leave. Yeah,

24:53

it ran longer than passion. Yeah. Okay?

24:55

Precisely. It was a

24:57

guy-to-line pitch. I mean, it went from

25:00

radio to TV to streaming, okay? Twelve

25:06

installments would have been good. And

25:09

at a certain point, I just remember trapped-in-closet still

25:12

being on, and I was like, okay. Shout-out

25:14

to her. Right. It was –

25:16

it's like how you – like, too many cooks. It's funny

25:18

that it goes on that long, but also, it went on that long. So,

25:21

I can't watch this whole thing. But getting back to Nicki's trap. Yeah.

25:25

Big Foot. It is not good,

25:28

but I did laugh quite

25:30

a bit. Not at

25:33

Bad Bitch, she likes Six Foot. I

25:35

call her Big Foot. The bitch thought, Lava said, Get up on your Good

25:37

Foot. That part is so

25:39

confusing to me, because she later insinuates

25:41

that Megan is lying about getting shot.

25:44

Right. But

25:46

then why would she have to hop up on the Good Foot? There's

25:48

inconsistencies in the song. Right. You're

25:50

being a bad detective right now. Yeah. I

25:54

mean, go ask for Gaga's help, okay? That's a pot detective.

25:57

Yeah. She's doing a research for her

25:59

salad. She's right. Yeah. Oh! Oh!

26:01

I'm expecting the premises. Your

26:03

manager of Gaga got into this fight, and

26:05

she was like, I'm going to the location

26:08

where Megan Thee Stallion was allegedly shot. I

26:10

looked for evidence. Full Al Capone, Geraldo Rivera,

26:12

outside the vault. Yeah. But

26:18

I did really laugh at

26:21

this line, when

26:23

she was talking about Gail King, because

26:25

if you recall, Tory Lanez's attorney implied

26:27

that they had slept together, that they

26:29

had had a relationship before the shooting.

26:31

But Megan on Gail King said that

26:33

they did not have a sexual relationship.

26:35

So some people believe that Megan lied

26:37

about it. Some people don't, et cetera.

26:40

But Nikki's line, fucking your best

26:42

friend, man, is crazy. You the type, though.

26:44

You was lying to the queen. Then you

26:46

went lying to the king. Gail.

26:52

I'm sorry. I laugh. Also,

26:55

then for even a second, she is actually

26:57

calling Gail the king, of all media. What?

27:03

So funny. Well, also, I'll say this, not Nikki

27:05

Minaj. However bad it gets with

27:07

her, some people just have funny baked into

27:09

literally how they speak. When she's

27:12

on Drag Race or whatever, just making a

27:14

casual comment is going to be funny. So

27:16

as heinous as she will get, it will

27:18

always be funny. That's just how some people

27:20

communicate. It's

27:22

a very casual talent. But when

27:25

we call her funny, it's not like we're saying. And all

27:27

is forgiven. That's why I also

27:29

laughed at the line, how you going to go on

27:31

Gail King and can't cry? Child, bye.

27:35

Just saying child and bye in the song

27:38

with her incidation, it's funny. She's a funny

27:40

person. Well, also, people forget that once upon

27:42

a time before the rapping, she wanted to

27:44

be an actress. And

27:47

she has that. You can picture her. She

27:49

went to LaGuardia. Yes, there you are. You

27:52

can picture her being like an eye-popping supporting role in

27:54

a movie. Where

27:58

is that show that never happened, by the way? The

28:00

Nikki remember there was supposed to be a Nikki in

28:02

high school show right that was supposed to happen I

28:04

mean, I just want to see Nicki Minaj Planted

28:07

into fame. Yes,

28:09

actually the girls fucking hating her right?

28:13

fame cause yeah And

28:15

then she's fighting with Debbie Allen. Oh my god

28:17

put those two in room. Just period Actually

28:21

room with Gayle King. What am I saying? I want to see

28:24

that interview I'm gonna always

28:26

refer to Gayle King as the king from now

28:28

on You must be talking Sorry Elvis You

28:30

must be referring to the king Sorry Elvis And

28:35

here's my ultimate thing about Nikki

28:40

This was not

28:42

just like a thing to be laughing

28:44

at all weekend It also felt really

28:46

sad and desperate and like you kind

28:48

of like just feel for her in

28:50

a way To

28:52

be in your home to be this

28:54

obsessed ranting for three days The

28:58

only interaction you have with the outside world

29:01

seems to be your fans who

29:03

are pumping you up gassing you

29:05

up to attack people constantly It

29:08

just feels that's not the

29:10

Nikki that puts that on love with it is

29:12

and it's you know, not to get all

29:14

I missed the old Kanye on her But

29:17

it's starting to feel like that in

29:19

that specific period where Kanye was just

29:21

getting erratic and you could tell

29:23

that he was throwing his legacy out of the

29:25

window and It's

29:28

people constantly bring up the fact that if you are the

29:30

queen, why are you constantly responding to everything? It's

29:33

giving a hit dog will holler as Megan said

29:35

when she called into the breakfast club and

29:37

talked about it And

29:39

it's just you don't want to see her having

29:41

to resort to this. I like rap beef. I like

29:44

fighting Sure, but it'd

29:46

be very different if Nicki

29:49

just it'd be very different if

29:51

Nicki just dropped this song right and hadn't had

29:53

days of lead up Because

29:55

just hearing like Lying on your day mama

29:58

is kind of crazy But

30:02

it's not crazier than, you know, ether

30:05

or, you know, shoot

30:08

them up, you know? So it's, we've

30:10

seen rap beef of this level before,

30:12

but just drop it. I feel

30:15

like the days leading up to it made

30:17

it feel erratic and crazy in a sense,

30:19

you know? Oh no, you don't want to

30:21

watch people like guesstimating what drug cocktail she's

30:23

on. I mean, like that's not like a

30:26

fun place for any fan or non-fan, I

30:28

think, to be in. Like it's just like,

30:30

it's uncomfortable all around. The passion she has

30:32

for whatever, I mean, it's not lighthearted, you

30:34

know what I mean? Like it's grim and

30:36

ongoing and as you just

30:39

said, you can tell she is lost in her mentions. And

30:41

in fact, in the middle of this song, she thanks her

30:43

fans in a moment that is also funny. But

30:45

at the same time, it's like you're clearly

30:47

listening only to your fans, you know? That's

30:49

like the voice that's like propelling you into

30:51

this. That outro of the song though is

30:54

deranged and there've been a lot of funny

30:56

memes about it, but when that music dropped

30:58

out and she just goes, now

31:01

listen up big close, you know, I got a lot

31:03

of tea. Oh. I mean,

31:05

again, she had a lot of nerve, but

31:07

there was some line deliveries in there. At

31:09

the end of the day, I am a

31:12

Barb, I'm always going to be one. You

31:14

really can't get Barb out of your system.

31:16

I'm always gonna be at the bar or

31:18

restaurant ordering a margarita and someone says, can

31:21

I get salt around the rim? And my

31:23

brain's immediately gonna go too, can I get

31:25

salt all around that rim, rim, rim, rim

31:27

tray? Like the words are always there. It's

31:30

always gonna be in my sense memory. She's

31:33

still incredibly funny even when she's

31:36

throwing out Bigfoot, get up on your good

31:38

foot. The

31:40

unintentional funny parts are still funny. There's a

31:42

lot of comedy on Pink Friday too, you

31:44

know? But it's sad that Pink Friday too

31:47

sort of feels like a swan song. Because

31:49

I don't know where She

31:52

goes after this. She's still gonna be

31:54

around. I Don't think, Nikki's not gonna

31:56

fade into obscurity. Certainly not over the

31:58

next week. What? Is.

32:01

He ever gonna set the table again is

32:03

ever going to guide us again. I.

32:05

Don't know that that? I think that's I

32:08

think that's authors note of like take this

32:10

to a Madonna fan place. I think the

32:12

reason she still has fans after like years

32:14

of. Questionable. Choices strain

32:17

statements. Whatever is like people

32:19

admire that. Of when

32:21

like a star of this magnitude has a lot

32:23

of sight in them to the point of self

32:25

sabotage like that almost almost move for that. in

32:28

a way like they can't help but like nurse

32:30

this feeling this drive they have even if it's

32:32

against their better interest that that at least feals

32:34

genuine as opposed to like appeasing their audiences all

32:36

the time. Much so that Nicky will. Are we

32:38

gonna have that feeling I think? And in fact

32:40

she kind of is the Madonna of her time

32:43

you know, like that was in his sake, the

32:45

table. And she did get to petty about certain

32:47

things and on. but at the same time her

32:49

legacy is only hers. Like there's. There's no

32:51

other rapper period that has done with Nicky

32:53

Manassas done. I mean she

32:56

did famously say bit from A.of these

32:58

hoes know, right? Yes. And then she

33:00

got to be on an animatronic long

33:02

after that. As you know, Mcdonalds to

33:04

throw people out so that's impressive. As

33:06

prefer officer to bits are Madonna as

33:08

Sophie Produce own rights are. Your

33:10

asses Madonna like the. Innovative to

33:12

one of the first people to work

33:15

with Sophie in that part mainstream round

33:17

you know so odd. In the meantime

33:19

I have better have gets to gag

33:21

city because it's is neither of us

33:23

diverse an ordinary people have. You can

33:25

make some house cause to Gag City

33:27

Thank you. Are

33:31

and measure announcer toward it as hell. So

33:34

they're both going to be touring the summer

33:36

Nurse. Asked

33:41

Love Meghan Also, Meghan I'm employed as our sometimes

33:43

people to Come On T but come on cheaper.

33:45

I feel like we've learned that does. Come on.

33:48

Vr. Ah. Political

33:50

Margie Okay, one for I'm frightened, but I'm

33:52

rest. Of

33:55

the way as I. Make.

33:57

i reacted to be and i trotted dust and

33:59

then A day later, Z-Waze's

34:01

account was no longer on Twitter. Bone-chilling.

34:06

The Barb said, how about now? Yeah, right. That's

34:09

true. That's true. But

34:11

also, we saw the George Santos interview, and I

34:13

think, girl, I don't think anyone's ready

34:16

to interview Nicky. No, that's true.

34:18

I'm not even. Yeah. You

34:20

need like three strategies, and you need three people.

34:23

It's like intervention. Yeah. We

34:26

need to seal your banks with a co-host. Oh,

34:28

God. I'm almost positive we don't need that.

34:32

She can handle Nicky. Actually,

34:35

I just want to see their Frost Nixon. Yeah. I

34:37

want to see them sit down. I think it would

34:39

be more an Amadeus situation, but yeah. Banks

34:42

Petty. Scary.

34:47

All right. We're

34:49

back. We're joined by the

34:51

fantastic Sasha Vamour. Sasha,

34:59

you're welcome. Our

35:16

guest today is an icon, not only

35:18

of drag, as the winner of season

35:20

nine of RuPaul's Drag Race. She's

35:23

risen to the forefront of the

35:25

craft, touring the world in dazzling

35:27

stages with the mesmerizing, gender-warping style

35:29

that we know her for. Now

35:32

here with an all-new live tour

35:34

inspired by the book The Big

35:36

Reveal, please welcome to Keep It, the

35:38

captivating Sasha Vamour. Thank

35:41

you so much for having me, Ira

35:43

Madison III and Louis Berthel. I'm so

35:45

excited to be here with Some

35:48

brilliant comedy writers, comedians, and your takes on

35:50

pop culture are on point.. So I'm honored

35:52

to be sitting down with you. Oh, that's

35:55

so nice of you. You are in the

35:57

Alaska crowd of you open your voice to

35:59

speak. Whoa. This is like a

36:01

different universe that likes of don't sound,

36:03

remove five and I contain myself as

36:05

adults. The tongs vocal fry you know

36:08

a different description. Very different people buy

36:10

a part of the only voice I've

36:12

talked about. How can I want to

36:14

guns on a pile of big reveal

36:16

momentarily? But I want to say that

36:18

you'll be on our hear the season

36:21

And I think this is a very

36:23

unusual task for a drag artist because.

36:25

I don't know I see. Look if you get

36:28

into drag your ideal as I'm gonna go out

36:30

there and be myself and I don't know push

36:32

boundaries et but then this show is sort of

36:34

saying inviting people into drugs who would never do

36:36

it in the first place and how. I.

36:40

Guess my question is how ready were you to

36:42

do that To reach out to people unfamiliar with

36:44

dragon? Bring them into it. Dot.

36:47

With the hard part I mean I'm

36:49

used to teaching a drag number and

36:51

like the thirty minutes to other drag

36:54

performers. Come on my monthly so we

36:56

learn a group number and like. A

36:59

very short amount of time and bring into

37:01

it's seats on like this will be fine

37:03

where he with people who have never stood

37:06

on stage before i realized of the you

37:08

accepted trying this person had a walk down

37:10

the sister lives are literal in fan I

37:12

have literally became a dirt track parent but.

37:15

It's it. Also like the dragged on the

37:17

work for them and now it's a reminder

37:19

of those. First is. To. Seeing yourself

37:22

have the transformation, seeing yourself an

37:24

ellipse, that and the court that

37:26

in the body. it just makes

37:28

you inherently more performance and Fermanagh

37:30

and do with you that transformation

37:32

from people for the first time

37:34

off. As. Beautiful. It

37:37

This is so excited to have the So

37:39

be coming back with as as he like

37:41

Louis and I talked about it when it

37:44

first came on. It is this a new

37:46

kind of i felt queer sour was is

37:48

sewing people that obviously that we wouldn't see

37:51

normally on a lot of the So that

37:53

we watch. Ah I'm How did you find

37:55

filming this as a reality product different from

37:57

you know. Some. In drag race. I know that.

38:00

Very different shows but where the

38:02

similarities are where there's some differences

38:04

that were really noticeable the you.

38:08

Ah, Month just being out in

38:10

the world is a very different

38:12

experience has been so save about

38:14

are gorgeous like. Faith. Brecht.

38:18

Studio And Drag Race

38:20

on and literally. Going.

38:23

Out into rural America. small town like the

38:25

one where I grew up that I got

38:27

the hell out of the by the who's

38:29

your faith there and but talking to people's

38:31

critically other queer people whose. Hometowns

38:34

want to be able to stay, want

38:36

to nourish some kind of Kirk community

38:39

for them to exist? Then on. I

38:41

was really, really. Interesting. I

38:43

think the biggest challenge like when the

38:46

camera crew goes and you've just been

38:48

hearing this story about someone was like.

38:50

You. Know. Attacked or discriminated against

38:53

him as the same on the same

38:55

block. And then here's a family affair

38:57

with only a team where people and

38:59

options accented like actually a my name's

39:02

Christopher and that both the moment you

39:04

remember. This is why we need community

39:06

because when you're not alone and feel

39:08

so much safer to do, you are.

39:11

Anthem. At the very least, Us

39:13

and all our big dragged provide

39:15

some. South. Got her for them

39:18

and they're beautiful eyes. So as you continue to

39:20

do your live act and evolve and you know

39:22

come up with all the stuff that outside of

39:24

new paused drag race. What is your appetite for

39:26

the show like I do? come back to it

39:28

every week. like to look forward to watching it

39:30

or does it feel little bit like I don't

39:32

know? You graduated in away and see don't necessarily

39:34

have to watch at week to week. I

39:37

think the first two years right after

39:39

I was on, I did not want

39:42

to watch anymore in an affair. Reluctantly

39:44

to still, I contribute to the Death

39:46

course that is always very exciting than

39:48

us. I like the House of Fun.

39:50

I love that again I just I

39:52

love seeing Drag. It's. You.

39:54

Know. We. Said the generations

39:56

and dragged turnover very fast on like

39:59

a great ground. The topic have been

40:01

moments of the kids you know how

40:03

to speak on that are on drag

40:05

race now and. You know,

40:07

I I. That's really exciting to see. How.

40:10

And center of town of the box. People.

40:13

Still are with the strikes. The

40:15

Greg Roman have what what he I want to say

40:17

that it is bone chilling. makes you consider yourself a

40:19

great grandparent as we run the So what. Six years

40:22

ago or something and now it feels I found out

40:24

where people are offended that somebody might have to know

40:26

the lyrics to Dark Lady. Were once upon a time

40:28

knowing the Sarah song was just how you got on

40:30

the South you know Damien. No,

40:33

it's true. Live from and drag. Knowing the

40:36

for the diva gets you very far and

40:38

I remember like when I was dragged my

40:40

first year on drag race being able to

40:42

like. Bust. Out a Barbra

40:45

Streisand performance Or a Dionne

40:47

Warwick song or something like

40:49

that. Back. To the long

40:51

way with fans of Drag Them with other

40:53

tygart Us cause we know that things are

40:55

timeless. They are the. Dark. Leafy.

40:57

gonna be good for forever. Marijuana.

41:00

I always wonder about specifics like

41:03

that, especially after this recent episode

41:05

of Drag Race, with the Dark

41:07

Lady Incidence, How Is. Being.

41:10

A Swede and you know being in the

41:12

space where people are consuming like this the

41:14

audience who wants a Barbara saw the audience

41:17

who wants share and then there's our audience

41:19

wants maybe just like a Mariah or something

41:21

and then as a younger people who maybe

41:23

don't even know i feel like is drags

41:26

how we're getting that educated out to queer

41:28

people would have day standards that we I

41:30

was here in the club right? You know

41:32

you you hear like Macarthur Park or something

41:35

every time you go out but I'm sure

41:37

there's twenty year old game hard who have

41:39

heard. That for the first time at like

41:41

a disco gay party in New York dumped

41:44

so true You know I think I only

41:46

know at Taylor Dame. Tell it to my

41:48

heart from Saint Added Provide for labor movement.

41:50

Didn't time on the radio before so we

41:52

have you have to go to the drying

41:54

so to get your as a caveman with

41:56

as do so I'm doing I'm like. i

41:59

have some very out of the box

42:01

choices. There's like a Stevie Wonder song.

42:03

I'm doing a Deep Purple song from

42:06

1970. And there's some

42:08

people who like, that's their favorite song

42:10

and they can't believe they are ever seeing

42:12

a drag queen lip sync to it. And

42:15

for other people, they're like, what was that?

42:17

I have no idea, they write it down.

42:19

They've never heard of Deep Purple actually most

42:21

of the time. But often they can go

42:23

off and it's, you know, introduce them to

42:26

something else. You'll appreciate, I am performing in

42:28

like three weeks at the theater in

42:30

Schenectady where Mariah Carey filmed

42:32

her hero video. Oh wow.

42:35

I know exactly the environment. Yeah. So

42:40

I get to great that stage, but I'm not

42:42

doing anything to that unfortunately. So your show, The

42:44

Big Reveal is centered around the idea of reveals,

42:46

which is still, I think the centerpiece of most

42:48

drag that we see on Drag Race in the

42:51

world. Talk about conceiving of

42:53

this and what that word means in the

42:55

context of the piece and what the audience

42:57

gets from a reveal. I

42:59

mean, reveals keep life exciting.

43:02

It's really my way of embracing

43:05

all the disasters that like we can't

43:07

control that happen in the world and

43:09

to our lives. You're like with drag,

43:11

you tell yourself, this is in

43:13

my fantasy, this is just a reveal. I didn't

43:15

see coming. You know, I've

43:17

learned something new about the world, usually something horrible,

43:20

but if we make

43:23

it dramatic, then it's fine. And

43:26

when it comes to the reveals in the

43:28

show, I wanted to pay tribute to the

43:30

wig reveal that I think

43:33

pushed my name into pop

43:35

culture. I do remember that you did that.

43:39

But there's so many other kinds. And

43:41

I think the biggest reveal in my

43:43

life was discovering this history

43:46

of drag that has been purposefully erased

43:48

and hidden and excluded from other forms

43:50

of art, even though drag has been

43:52

there alongside everything. And it's been a

43:55

really important part of queer activism, queer

43:57

community, and we don't always hear those

43:59

stories. figures either. So there is

44:01

a little history in this play

44:04

that I'm doing, inspired by the book that

44:06

I wrote that charts the history of drag

44:09

alongside my own life. But

44:12

the best way to do history is to pay a tribute

44:14

to it with a performance. So to

44:16

all the things drag has been, all the different

44:18

kinds of reveals people have done the stunts, the

44:20

surprises, I try to give them a fresh knife

44:22

in this show and chart you through the

44:25

history of a person and the history of drag in

44:27

one 90 minute presentation that keeps you

44:29

on the edge of your seat. Surprises,

44:32

even the most jaded,

44:35

know-it-all drag fan is my goal.

44:38

Now it's interesting to me that obviously you

44:40

are including your reveal where

44:43

we saw you on Drag Race with

44:45

the roses and everything. It was so

44:47

big. It was on television. It's everywhere.

44:49

It's constantly still being watched online.

44:51

Was there a period where you didn't want

44:53

to reference it, where you wanted to sort

44:56

of lay it to rest, where you were

44:58

like, I need to step away from the

45:00

roses for a bit so everyone doesn't expect

45:02

me doing this? And what made you comfortable

45:04

sort of bringing it back for this

45:07

show? I

45:09

didn't want to do it at all. After it

45:11

happened, it was like it was

45:13

a good memory, but it was also a very

45:16

stressful, bad memory that was very

45:18

intense behind the scenes. And

45:20

then I started incorporating it in

45:23

my first One Queen show,

45:25

Smoke and Mirrors. And just the

45:27

way the audience loved to see it made

45:30

me, I was like, it's not just about what I

45:32

want to do. They're

45:34

very excited. Even though they know what's

45:36

going to happen, they're almost more excited.

45:39

So for this show, I don't do so

45:41

emotional, but I do another Whitney Houston song.

45:45

I do I'm Your Baby Tonight. And with

45:47

a little wink, because it's like whatever

45:49

you want from me, I know. I

45:51

think I know what you want. OK. OK.

45:55

OK. I'm cynical. Her full

45:57

lesbian era, basically. That album. My name

45:59

is God. My not a lot going

46:01

on. I'm an Uncle Jeff flake, lot

46:03

of family and an addict. I know

46:05

a lot of have money for the

46:07

record for pop. It

46:10

is interesting even think about how a

46:12

moment like that is sort of for

46:14

a pop star that we go see

46:16

right? You know you wanna see Madonna

46:18

do this song at her tour and

46:20

you're hoping it is He still gonna

46:22

be doing that. Corey our our of

46:24

speaking specifically of how gagged I am

46:27

audience was was he pulled out don't

46:29

tell me and. Then was doing the com

46:31

or address even a video and it's like

46:33

that's what I want to see which I

46:35

realize of my first introduction to Madonna. With

46:39

me not video ads with on repeat on

46:41

my tv know I member uppsala door saying

46:43

once i think somebody on american idol after

46:45

she had left up idols covered straight up

46:47

and then seat at did a surprise appearance

46:50

as said oh that sounds been like a

46:52

best friend to me and i felt like

46:54

that energy was. People. Are so

46:56

excited to see it. It becomes less

46:58

about. You. Have repetitive

47:01

you find doing it and more like oh this

47:03

is this belongs to everybody including me you know.

47:08

I mean as it's a necessity, but

47:10

I'm so grateful for anything that you

47:12

know people love. Now I think of

47:14

you as one of the great so

47:16

we say aren't consumers of drag race

47:18

Somebody who cares a lot about just

47:20

knowing Topple superior knowing you're from New

47:22

York as I remember, it's. What?

47:25

Is your favorite kind of stuff to be

47:27

obsessed with his epoch culturally that is completely

47:30

outside of dry that you find yourself most

47:32

avid in seeking out. In

47:35

Just like everyone else, I Love My

47:37

Housewives. Ah

47:39

my! I love sites pop music

47:41

and all the drama and the

47:44

pop girlies. I'm. Down.

47:46

as others have you know that i do

47:48

love theater and i try to go see

47:51

like him of great theater in the city

47:53

and i look lindsay trying to write a

47:55

play actually as we speak so sand headed

47:57

for movies on broadway moment for drag And

48:01

I go to art museums all the

48:03

time. Sometimes to read the art for

48:05

Phil, because I think that's kind of

48:07

fun as well. But also just to

48:09

appreciate like beauty in all its forms.

48:11

That's so fun. I just saw Cola

48:14

Scola's Oh, Mary at

48:16

the Lucille Orto. I wish I could say that. And

48:19

so that is like, that is what you want to see

48:22

when you're mixing like drag and theater.

48:24

And it's so fucking funny. He's so

48:26

brilliant. Yeah. So you

48:28

really just wander around a museum. Like, I

48:30

think that's fucking rad. I mean, I'm so

48:32

I get my information from things like Wikipedia

48:34

because I can consume it quickly and then

48:36

go on with my day or do wordle

48:38

or whatever. And so when people go to

48:40

a museum, I feel like there's a real serenity

48:43

to that vibe. And like, do you find yourself

48:45

just actually remembering the things you take

48:47

in at a museum? This sounds like such a tribe

48:49

talking about this. But anyway, yeah,

48:52

I was the sensation of

48:54

like, you know, really walking up

48:56

to the thing and looking at it closely. I

48:58

can like, I can help you remember. We're

49:01

so overstimulated. I feel like we need

49:03

those moments of serenity. Like, yes. What

49:05

is your favorite time to go to

49:08

the museum? Because especially

49:10

in New York, it is you got to time

49:12

it right where you're there and you can actually

49:14

look at it because there's just

49:16

people standing around. But like, what's your

49:18

favorite, like, time of day to

49:20

go around the museum and just

49:22

hang out? I mean,

49:24

it's hard to get out of Flatbush early

49:27

enough. The first time in the morning is

49:29

the best. And

49:31

then you can go and you have like an

49:33

afternoon cocktail and discuss what you saw, what you

49:36

liked, what you didn't like, what you remember. I

49:38

like to go with like friends who don't

49:40

go to art museums because I feel like

49:42

they have the freshest preservatives on the art.

49:46

And it's just fun. It lasts. Here's

49:48

a question I have for you. If you couldn't live in New

49:50

York City and you couldn't live in New York

49:52

State, where would you live? Where

49:55

would I live? You know, I just

49:57

was in Oklahoma for filming We're

49:59

Here. And I was gassed. Really?

50:02

It's a probably conservative thing. Let's

50:04

just be clear. But the

50:07

drag scene in Tulsa, I was

50:09

blown away by. And obviously,

50:12

Tulsa has such a complex history

50:14

that is constantly being

50:16

discussed. And I feel like

50:19

there's culture. There's movies and TV here

50:21

being filmed there. It's quite a cool

50:23

place. Strongly recognized. And also,

50:25

Hansen's from there. So I mean, talk

50:27

about culture. I

50:30

think they've gone quite conservative. You know what? I didn't

50:32

investigate that, but I do believe you. Yeah,

50:36

they have a studio there. I was like,

50:38

the Hansen. And then I looked it up

50:40

and I learned that. Yeah, you're right. They're

50:42

not only from there, they still live there.

50:44

Well, the original Hansen brothers started the riot.

50:47

Is that so? Yeah. Is that so? Yeah.

50:50

Goes down through generation. Listen

50:53

to the lyrics to Unbop. OK. What are

50:55

they saying? What are they saying? It

51:00

doesn't shock me that Tulsa has amazing

51:02

drag, though. Because I feel like one

51:04

of the beautiful parts of watching drag

51:07

race is obviously it's fun when the

51:09

New York girls are there and they

51:11

all recognize each other. But when you

51:13

see two girls and they're both like,

51:15

hey, we're from Denver, or something like

51:17

that, you're imagining the world that they

51:19

live in from their interactions. And it's

51:21

so much fun. I feel like

51:23

that's why I really enjoy we're here.

51:26

I feel like that must be why you enjoy

51:28

touring. You get to see these locals

51:30

who are doing so much

51:33

great stuff that we might not ever see just because it's

51:35

not going to be on TV. It makes me wish that

51:37

there were more avenues just to

51:39

see local performances

51:42

regularly. I agree. I

51:44

think I keep trying to tell people like

51:47

there are quote unquote local scenes. That is where

51:49

real drag is happening. It all filters down to

51:51

TV after that. But if you want to be

51:53

on the cutting edge of what drag is, you

51:56

have to go to your local drag bar. And

51:59

everyone. got them and we got to keep them in

52:02

business. The one in my hometown where I first went

52:04

out in drag in small

52:06

town Illinois at closed down

52:08

like five years ago and there's it's

52:11

like it's hard to bring when something's been around

52:13

from the 70s you can kind of keep it

52:15

around but it's hard to bring these these cultures

52:17

back or fight for them to keep

52:19

existing. We're in Illinois wait were you two from

52:21

the same area? No I'm

52:23

from a Southwest Southern called Lamont. Oh

52:26

I've never heard of Lamont. I'm

52:28

from Champaign. Okay you're from Roger

52:30

Ebert country as we say. Yes. Roger

52:33

Ebert country. There

52:35

were still cornfields but there

52:38

were professors. Right. I

52:40

guess my last question for you is is there

52:43

anything from your earliest days of drag when you're

52:45

basically figuring out how to do it that

52:47

you would never do now. Did you do

52:49

experimental stuff then just trying to

52:52

figure out your voice before

52:54

you're like okay wait actually that wasn't me. Things you

52:56

attempted. Oh my gosh. I

53:00

think it's like the bit fully copying

53:02

someone else's number of it all that

53:04

every baby drag queen does. You're like

53:06

I love how she mixed those two

53:08

songs together. I'm gonna do that exact

53:11

thing. Before you go obviously you said you

53:13

love you

53:24

know your housewives. Is there a moment

53:26

from any of the shows any franchises

53:28

where you feel like if

53:30

you were to incorporate it into a drag

53:33

show or maybe this one you already have

53:35

you know like I feel like there's so

53:37

many people probably doing receipts proof timeline all

53:39

across the US right now but what

53:42

moment sticks in your head where you're like I would love

53:44

to conceptualize that in

53:46

drag someday. You

53:49

know the Beverly Hills like Amsterdam

53:51

fight scene with yeah smashed wine

53:54

glass. Yeah let's talk about the

53:56

husband. The

54:00

dance of it all is

54:03

just like peak drama,

54:05

like the best of TV,

54:07

certainly best of Housewise. And

54:10

then you know it's all about Salt Lake City

54:12

this season. It's kind of a dull season, but

54:14

that reveal... The big reveal! Talking

54:16

about the reveal. The reveal of, you

54:18

know, about Salt Lake City, huh? It's so

54:20

good to see you. It's so good

54:22

to see you. What were your

54:25

thoughts on Monica? Because it was

54:27

kind of a fine season until the end, and

54:29

I feel like a lot of people were like,

54:31

she saved the show. She was so amazing, and

54:33

I feel like Heather saved the show because she

54:36

caught her. Yeah. Yeah,

54:38

Heather was the one giving drama, giving

54:40

Shakespeare about it. I really

54:43

needed Monica to inhabit the

54:45

campiness of a villain better.

54:47

She kept trying to justify

54:49

it. And it's

54:51

really unjustifiable. So I think those are the moments

54:53

you have to just go full villain if you

54:56

want to be a reality TV villain. It's

54:58

too late for me to put that back. I

55:01

always think of like, you

55:03

know, Johnny Bananas for some word from

55:05

the MTV world, who has

55:07

always for years played the villain

55:09

on the challenge. And does it online.

55:11

It's very wrestling. Like he loves being

55:14

the villain. It's

55:17

a thing that you sort of get in

55:19

drag too, you know, being generous with the

55:21

audience as my friend Ray

55:23

Sawney, who's been on the show before, has described it.

55:26

You have to be generous with the audience

55:28

to give them a villain. But if you're

55:30

concerned with I'm going to give

55:32

them what they need in a villain, but also

55:35

they have to like me as well, then

55:38

you're failing because they have to hate you for you

55:40

to be the villain. And then they'll learn

55:42

to love to hate you. Right. And

55:44

some ways like wanting to be

55:46

liked is not a good need

55:49

for being on a reality TV show at all. Right.

55:52

Probably not a good life lesson either.

55:54

Like if you like yourself and like

55:56

what you're doing, just embrace it. And

56:00

also it's like you're not going to be in the edit

56:02

bay, girl. So stop pretending like it's always going to go

56:04

your way. Exactly. Like maybe you don't

56:06

know that you're not like this. Yeah. Oh, it's

56:08

too late now. Well,

56:10

thank you so much for being here. God, what a pleasure. Thank you

56:12

so much for spending your time with that. Thank

56:15

you so much. Any time, I adore you

56:17

guys. Thanks, man. Likewise. Thank you. I

56:31

am so sorry. When I grew up

56:33

in Cambridge,刑 Apric- Mobile

56:36

Graduate for Culture. Some

56:50

date we want to play the game. We also

56:53

have a date with some different TV prickler. I mean you

56:55

get to visit probably try to, like, after the Oscar nominations

56:57

were dropped, several fans, or

57:00

white women, took to the internet.

57:02

You're the term of cops. Took

57:06

to the internet to defend Margo

57:08

Ravi and Greta Gerwig, who were

57:10

not nominated for Best Actress and

57:12

Director. Escandalo.

57:15

I guess. Lewis,

57:17

you're a resident Oscar correspondent.

57:20

Sure. Oh, shall I let you

57:22

go? What do you think? Okay. I've

57:24

got nothing to attack you, girl. Okay. It's what's scary

57:26

on me. I've got nothing to say. I've got

57:29

nothing to say. I will say this. First of all,

57:31

I thought Barbie had an awesome Oscar

57:33

nominations day. I mean it got eight nominations,

57:35

way more than most other movies, whatever. All

57:39

this really proves to me is that the Oscars

57:41

remain the relevant award show. I

57:43

mean people are pissed because there

57:46

is sanctity to who actually gets in with

57:48

these nominations. And it's because, I'm so sorry

57:50

the Grammys, they stick with the five Nominees

57:52

in the various categories. There's still only a few

57:54

people who have Oscars. It's not like the Grammys

57:56

where, oh, if you miss that one year, don't

57:58

worry, you'll win. For the next year

58:01

you know there's just like and they don't mean

58:03

anything anymore. They're still like it is kind of

58:05

hallowed ground of the ceremony still. And I have

58:07

to say selfishly, I love seeing that. I love

58:09

seeing people worked up about a snob Now. That.

58:12

Said. I think Danielle Detwiler is a

58:14

worse not. I feel like I we

58:16

needed more volume for others. Nubs them

58:18

And this year Tiana tailored to me.

58:20

It was an extraordinary lead performance. Can't

58:22

believe it did make any headway. The

58:25

See are truly it's enemies. If you

58:27

haven't seen around and around it's so

58:29

fucking gun subverted good. And ah, Ab

58:31

Rothwell the Director of Like What a

58:33

stunning day! Yeah, oh my God. it's

58:35

so well directed. It's amazing. It's amazing.

58:37

Ah, Ah, there are up

58:39

by the way ingenue well as Taylor

58:41

and Words and that would be an

58:43

extraordinary nomination for that category. A very

58:45

intellectual, conversational movie and she makes it

58:48

extremely. Dynamics get like there's no, didn't

58:50

Francis Fisher try to at our A

58:52

it's let's wait for her Off but

58:54

all to us as I was literally

58:56

a little too late, I think of

58:58

maybe we had started a month before.

59:00

that could have been possible. but. I'm.

59:03

The. First thing that Barbie fans are

59:05

upset about is Margot Robbie not getting and

59:07

for best actress I will say this I

59:09

think Margot Robbie performance is the best thing

59:12

about the movies. Like and as Been Jobless

59:14

said last week tall order making this dolls

59:16

and her journey from plastic to the real

59:18

world. Not. Just interesting but emotional.

59:21

on does a lot of curiosity about

59:23

the character. There's a lot of discovery

59:25

that a lot of fun to watch

59:27

and the movie. That. Said

59:30

historically at the Oscars. A.

59:32

Big kind of bold, colorful comedic performance. Rarely

59:34

gets into the top five for best actress.

59:37

The fact of the matter is, people are

59:39

way likelier to vote for a comic performance.

59:41

If it's in the supporting categories, this is

59:44

just the way it is. I don't know

59:46

if people don't think that. like

59:49

a comedy performance even with emotional elements just

59:51

isn't as competitive when up against these dramatic

59:53

roles but that's how it six out like

59:55

a goldie hawn and private benjamin who was

59:58

nominated or julia roberts and pretty one who

1:00:00

was nominated, that is extremely rare. And in

1:00:02

fact, Julia Roberts has four Oscar nominations. She

1:00:04

only has one for the things she's amazing

1:00:07

at, which is being the lead in a

1:00:09

funny movie. You know, all the other ones

1:00:11

are like very dramatic roles, etc.

1:00:14

So I think just, I think a

1:00:16

good historical comparison is

1:00:19

Kristen Wiig in Bridesmaids. If you love the

1:00:21

movie Bridesmaids, you love that performance. What she

1:00:24

brings, she's not only these hilarious

1:00:26

moments, obviously, it's a hilarious movie. It's

1:00:28

a melancholy performance. There's a lot of

1:00:30

like, sad reality of that character. And

1:00:32

it's really dynamic. She was

1:00:34

never in the discussion for best

1:00:37

actress basically that year. And Melissa

1:00:39

McCarthy was immediately forgiving just a

1:00:41

broad, supporting performance. I

1:00:44

don't know what to say about that

1:00:46

other than I think people prefer comedy

1:00:48

in the Oscars conversation when it's in

1:00:50

a featured capacity. There's something about popping

1:00:53

in with funny that feels like

1:00:55

it satisfies the word supporting in

1:00:58

a really satisfying way. And that's why you

1:01:00

have lots of wins that are like Whoopi

1:01:02

Goldberg and Ghost is supporting Marissa Tomei and

1:01:04

My Cousin Vinny, Mira Sorbino, Octavia

1:01:06

Spencer and The Help, another movie where the lead was

1:01:08

not nominated. And if you like The Help, you like

1:01:10

Demis Stone in it, you know. So

1:01:13

I just feel like, weirdly, there's a

1:01:15

lot of historical precedent for Margot Robbie getting

1:01:17

left out of the, or I don't want to

1:01:19

say left out of the conversation. She almost

1:01:21

certainly came in sixth. She almost certainly came

1:01:23

in sixth. One thing I want to say, Barbara

1:01:25

Streisand, perhaps the definitive comic actress of the

1:01:27

second half of the 20th century on stage and

1:01:30

in movies, she has one Oscar nomination for

1:01:32

a lead comic performance. She also has another nomination

1:01:34

for The Way We Were, which is way more

1:01:36

dramatic. But the fact of the matter is,

1:01:38

if she gave the performances she did in What's

1:01:40

Up Doc in The Owl and the Pussycat,

1:01:42

and those were supporting performances, she would have been

1:01:45

way likelier to get nominated for them. Wait,

1:01:48

let me guess, is it for the guilt trip?

1:01:50

No, still waiting on those

1:01:52

noms. Also, when you think about

1:01:54

what you just said as well,

1:01:56

Ryan Gosling fits that too, A.T.

1:01:58

One beloved actor. since 1997

1:02:00

earlier if you're Mickey Mouse Club.

1:02:03

And we certainly are that. Yes,

1:02:05

Mickey Mouse Club. Can I wrestle with bigger names?

1:02:09

Like, people love Ryan Gosling. You know, that's

1:02:11

why he's been nominated before. And

1:02:13

a supporting role in a comedy, like

1:02:15

you said, is a tall order.

1:02:17

You come in more than

1:02:20

the ones that get nominated to, like

1:02:23

you mentioned in Ghost, Whoopi,

1:02:25

Melissa McCarthy, Bridesmaids, even

1:02:28

Marisa Tomé. You know, these are the

1:02:30

performances that basically, yes,

1:02:32

you love Barbie because you love Marco, right? But

1:02:35

when you love Barbie, you're also thinking of Ryan

1:02:38

Gosling. And he sort of makes the movie in

1:02:40

a way, and I feel sad saying this because,

1:02:42

you know, he's a man. But I said it

1:02:44

when it came out. The

1:02:46

movie is about toxic masculinity.

1:02:49

The movie in turn has to

1:02:51

highlight Ken's turn toward toxic masculinity.

1:02:54

So the movie, a lot of

1:02:56

the plot hinges on his journey.

1:02:59

And with the I Am Ken song

1:03:01

being nominated, that

1:03:03

just feels like people celebrating

1:03:05

the movie, but celebrating it in

1:03:07

the way that they feel like

1:03:10

acceptable nominating a comedy, you

1:03:12

know? Right. Well, also, it's like, I

1:03:14

mean, I felt like people who

1:03:16

are really bummed about the Margo thing are

1:03:18

trying to use the Ryan Gosling nomination against

1:03:20

her, as if to say if you nominate

1:03:22

him, well, you obviously have to nominate her.

1:03:24

But honestly, they're just two completely different races.

1:03:27

You know what I mean? Like, there's less

1:03:29

going on in supporting actor this year. Oh,

1:03:31

he's blocked? Not

1:03:34

what I meant. Race. Let's get a dictionary

1:03:37

in front of you. Race has multiple definitions. But

1:03:41

the fact of the matter is, like, I was

1:03:43

less passionate about the supporting actor category this

1:03:45

year, and I'm not saying Ryan Gosling is

1:03:47

bad, but, like, I think in a more

1:03:49

competitive year, he would probably be left out

1:03:51

if there were more performances like as

1:03:54

epic as Robert Downey Jr. in Oppenheimer.

1:03:56

I can't believe Charles Melton didn't get

1:03:58

in. That's still him. strange to

1:04:00

me. But if you look at the lead actors category, I

1:04:02

mean, like, those women are running those

1:04:04

movies like Sandra Hewler. I mean, I can't even

1:04:06

think of another performance that's like that. Like, Emma

1:04:09

Stone is technically a comedic performance, but at the

1:04:11

same time, it is chock-a-block

1:04:13

with crazy acting choices. So there's a

1:04:15

lot to immediately reward. You know, it's

1:04:17

like, oh, she's borderline

1:04:21

brain dead at the beginning of the movie. And then

1:04:23

she evolves into this sort of realized

1:04:25

still Frankenstein-y place. It's a one of a kind

1:04:27

of performance. So

1:04:29

and honestly, if you're thinking about

1:04:32

what people are rewarding as well, that's

1:04:36

what the money is for. This

1:04:38

movie made so much fucking money. And I

1:04:41

feel like you can tell me if this is wrong,

1:04:43

but just like in recent history, at least at the

1:04:45

Oscars, when they are celebrating a movie that is a

1:04:48

big box office hit, they

1:04:51

want to celebrate that film. And of course

1:04:53

you want that represented at the award show

1:04:55

because that's what people are going to tune

1:04:57

in for. They're going to like Margot will

1:04:59

be at the Oscars. She's nominated anyway. It's

1:05:01

producer. But even last

1:05:04

year when Top Gun

1:05:06

saved cinema, right? Top

1:05:08

Gun Maverick is nominated

1:05:10

for Best Picture. Tom

1:05:13

Cruise did a nomination. Precisely. Right. Right.

1:05:15

Right. Right. And also he was great

1:05:17

in that film. I think that that's

1:05:19

up there with some of his best

1:05:21

performances. But you know, like he wasn't

1:05:23

even in the conversation really for it

1:05:25

because I feel like a lot of

1:05:27

people feel like the

1:05:29

box office result is your reward. Action

1:05:31

is their reward. Like Spider-Man. And also

1:05:33

like, I mean, like historically, there's just

1:05:35

so many examples of, for example, like

1:05:38

Audrey Hepburn not nominated for My Fair Lady, which won

1:05:40

Best Picture. Leslie Coron not nominated for Gigi, which won

1:05:42

Best Picture. It's like, well, what do we like about

1:05:45

the movie if not this thing? But it's like Best

1:05:47

Picture, I think is we're saying it's greater than

1:05:50

the sum of its parts. You know what I

1:05:52

mean? It's not just about any one part. So

1:05:54

I think it's fair to say, I think it's

1:05:56

fair to nominate the movie for Best Picture, particularly

1:05:58

when there are 10. Nominees

1:06:01

and there's only five for everything else like it

1:06:03

just makes sense that like something would land in

1:06:05

the best picture category and then maybe be Snubbed

1:06:08

otherwise, by the way, there are always movies every

1:06:10

year that are nominated for Best Picture that get

1:06:12

no acting nominations So, you know,

1:06:14

it's like, you know the zone of interest

1:06:16

great performances Sandra was never really a contender

1:06:18

in supporting this year, even though she was

1:06:20

amazing, you know So I just feel like

1:06:22

the Barbie stands as I'm hearing them are

1:06:26

Well, that's exactly what they are stands They

1:06:28

like this one thing and they liked it a lot and

1:06:30

they're like, well, why isn't it here if I liked it

1:06:33

a lot? But I think the point

1:06:35

of the Oscars is nobody is coming in only

1:06:37

having seen one movie the point is there's lots

1:06:39

to enjoy about lots of things and Because

1:06:42

only five fit into certain slots That doesn't mean

1:06:44

we hate anything else and I

1:06:46

feel like that's the implication of a lot of

1:06:48

these arguments When people are sitting at their computer

1:06:50

voting, they're picking five things in their individual motors

1:06:53

There's not a committee of like a

1:06:55

bunch of mean gay guys being like hoot away leave

1:06:57

out Like it's not how it works. You just pick

1:07:00

five things you like and presumably you've seen all the

1:07:02

movies Well

1:07:04

and to get into that argument specifically

1:07:06

there's the whole did Barbie direct itself

1:07:09

argument because Barbie is nominated for Best

1:07:11

Picture And Greta Gerwig is not nominated

1:07:14

There are more Best Picture nominees and

1:07:16

there are Directing nominees. Yes, so

1:07:18

you have to say that about all the

1:07:21

other pictures like did they direct themselves? You

1:07:23

know and you also have to know that

1:07:25

Oscar nominations come from the branches.

1:07:27

Yes, people can vote once Things

1:07:30

are nominated, but the branches are

1:07:33

directors are voting for

1:07:35

Best Director actors are

1:07:37

voting for the

1:07:39

acting nominations and so No

1:07:42

one is meeting. There's no collusion. There's

1:07:44

no even Okay

1:07:48

collusion delusion, okay They

1:07:52

are not conspiring

1:07:54

against well, I

1:07:58

could argue the directing snows was

1:08:00

a little, um, grittasy. You

1:08:03

think so? I just feel

1:08:05

like, for some reason, they don't see it from my

1:08:07

girl. But I

1:08:09

do think that she will

1:08:12

get nominated again- well, she's

1:08:14

going up into Narnia. Right. And who

1:08:16

knows what that will mean for everybody? I

1:08:18

see her win, actually,

1:08:21

for a movie that she writes and directs without,

1:08:24

um, Noah involved. I mean, like, Lady Bird was

1:08:26

exactly that. One of the great movies of the

1:08:28

2010s. It's her best film! Also, at this point-

1:08:30

Keep that man off the set! At

1:08:35

this point, it actually is weird that she just

1:08:37

hasn't wound up with the win. I mean, she's

1:08:39

so, so respected. Like you say, I

1:08:42

think of the last decade of movies, and there would just be

1:08:44

a gaping hole without her in it. But

1:08:47

when you look at who's nominated for Best

1:08:49

Director, though, I mean, like, these are largely

1:08:51

extremely epic movies, and they were- the

1:08:54

control in the direction is so fabulous. Like

1:08:56

again, Justine Triet for Anatomy of

1:08:59

a Fall, give me a break. That

1:09:01

is like perfection. Like absolutely a different

1:09:03

nomination. All of those people. But I'm

1:09:05

not like a Christopher Nolan stand, but

1:09:07

that's probably his best movie, right? So

1:09:09

I feel like it was an extremely

1:09:11

competitive year, you know? I

1:09:14

think that if you are taking

1:09:16

anybody out, you know, there's, you

1:09:20

know, there's your ghosts maybe, but that's my favorite film

1:09:22

of the year, even though it's

1:09:24

not for everybody. And also it's a

1:09:26

distinct and stylistic risk, I think. Like

1:09:29

poor things does not remind me of

1:09:31

his previous movies. That's an advancement upon his

1:09:34

movies. The look is very strange. We've

1:09:36

called it like Roald Dahl-like in a

1:09:38

way, but like it's very particular to

1:09:40

the world he creates. And I think

1:09:42

it's all from his vision. So I think

1:09:44

it's a really qualified nomination. You were

1:09:46

a little controversy. I

1:09:48

would have taken out Marty. I

1:09:50

might have done that too. I love to kill- I love

1:09:52

Killers of the Power Moon. I do. But

1:09:57

it's not one of those- I

1:10:00

think it's one of Scorsese's best films

1:10:02

to me, and I think that there are other

1:10:04

things to highlight in the film besides the directing.

1:10:06

I feel like there's some other directing work that

1:10:08

I really enjoyed this year more than Scorsese

1:10:13

in Kill

1:10:15

a Sort of Farm Road. I mean, fuck, we're

1:10:17

talking about Greta, but a snub

1:10:19

in directing for me this year is

1:10:22

Ira Sacks. Oh, love that movie, Passages.

1:10:24

Where was Passages? Not a single nomination

1:10:26

this year. Where was the conversation with

1:10:28

this? The conversation needs to be about

1:10:30

Passages and not all of us strangers.

1:10:32

Passages was fucking fabulous. It's in my

1:10:34

top three of the year that Franz

1:10:36

Rogowski, who I don't even know if

1:10:38

I had seen him before, that's like

1:10:40

the most jargly, realistic, gay dude

1:10:42

I've seen on screen recently. Not just the fashion, like

1:10:44

the way he treats, there's a lot going on in

1:10:46

that performance that I really admire. You need to watch

1:10:49

The Great Freedom if you haven't seen it. I need

1:10:51

to, I need to. It's really

1:10:53

amazing. I love Franz Rogowski, and I'm

1:10:55

glad that that at least seems to

1:10:57

have put him on a bigger stage

1:11:01

for him to be celebrated, because that

1:11:03

is a amazing actor. Also, it

1:11:05

must be said, you just touched on the thing

1:11:08

that is most frustrating to me about this Barbie

1:11:10

conversation, which is by all means, you're a win

1:11:12

on a snub that pisses you off. You have

1:11:14

to then do the work of picking the person

1:11:16

who doesn't belong in the nominees. When

1:11:19

is this cutthroat in directing, and I think of Killers

1:11:21

of the Flower Moon, and I think, you know what,

1:11:23

you probably could have taken 25 minutes out of it.

1:11:25

That to me is worthy of taking somebody out of

1:11:27

the conversation. I didn't feel that way about the other

1:11:29

movies. But when

1:11:32

people are just saying, why didn't she get in? It's like,

1:11:34

well, you have to look at who did get in, because

1:11:36

that's what people are picking. They're not picking who is left

1:11:38

out, they're picking who is left in. So

1:11:41

in a way, by the way, that's the

1:11:43

most fun thing about talking about a snub.

1:11:45

Be a fucking asshole. Say who wasn't worthy

1:11:47

of it this year. But that runs in

1:11:49

a diametric opposition of

1:11:51

this whole hashtag Hillary

1:11:53

Barbie movement, right? These

1:11:57

women were snubbed, and we have to support them, but

1:11:59

you don't wanna... to talk about who needs to

1:12:01

be cut there. Right. It's just any man.

1:12:04

Right, vaguely. Also, Hillary's

1:12:06

message to Margot and Greta hurt

1:12:09

my brain. I couldn't believe I was

1:12:11

seeing it. It was so emptily

1:12:15

sympathetic. It was just like, have

1:12:18

you said anything about Barbie before? Like, what is

1:12:20

the thing about the movie that you're defending? What

1:12:22

is it about other movies that's not as good?

1:12:24

I just found it so nauseating. It

1:12:26

was sentiment, meaningless sentiment. Which,

1:12:28

by the way, speaking of

1:12:30

the Hillary of it all,

1:12:34

and maybe it was just a

1:12:36

man who took your spot, it's

1:12:39

giving very, very

1:12:41

larca on the trainers. The

1:12:44

definitive document of our time. Well,

1:12:46

who shouldn't be nominated? Maybe a man.

1:12:50

That's how she figured out who a trainer

1:12:52

was. But it

1:12:55

reminds me of to bring up

1:12:57

Nikki again. Do you

1:12:59

remember when Nikki and Taylor were

1:13:03

having a back and forth about

1:13:05

the amaze? Yes,

1:13:08

I've done nothing but love and support

1:13:10

you. It's unlike you to pit women

1:13:12

against each other. Maybe one of the

1:13:14

men took your slot. So

1:13:17

nauseating. The rhetoric is so infuriating.

1:13:22

It goes into, speaking of Taylor, this

1:13:24

thing that has really happened with

1:13:26

Barbie and this over-identification with a

1:13:29

commercial product that is

1:13:31

just the commercialization of identity.

1:13:35

And it just feels so cool. You're

1:13:38

getting worked up about Barbie because

1:13:41

it's like another white

1:13:43

woman. It feels very

1:13:45

identity-laced. It feels like the snub against this movie is

1:13:47

a snub against you personally because you like the movie

1:13:50

and it meant a lot to you. And

1:13:52

I will say, look, it should be commended

1:13:54

that this movie connected, not just

1:13:56

like people are fans with it. This movie connected with viewers

1:13:58

in the way that I with like

1:14:00

a blockbuster album. You know what I mean?

1:14:03

Like it reminds me of whatever, Jagged Little

1:14:05

Pill or something, or Tapestry or Exile in

1:14:07

Guyville or whatever. Like people pick this album,

1:14:09

it's like their thing, and they're gonna watch

1:14:11

it forever, and there's something about it that

1:14:13

like, they wanna keep returning to. That

1:14:16

should- Which is beautiful, and that's what cinema is for.

1:14:18

And I think that there's a lot that Greta

1:14:22

has done for artists

1:14:24

who want to make a good

1:14:27

film within the commercial realm.

1:14:30

Yes, right. But

1:14:32

this over-identification with it, where

1:14:35

a slight against Barbie is a slight against you. Going

1:14:38

back to what we talked about before. A

1:14:40

slight against Nicky is a slight

1:14:42

against you personally. A

1:14:45

slight against a joke about Taylor

1:14:47

Swift is an insult to you

1:14:49

personally. It's the, they're not

1:14:51

you. Right, they aren't. You're right,

1:14:54

it feels too personal. It's

1:14:56

cool to have a personal connection with a movie, but

1:14:59

you can't take it personally when it's criticized, yes. There's

1:15:02

actually nothing I love more than talking about a movie with

1:15:05

someone that someone doesn't like, and

1:15:07

that I do like, and vice versa. Yeah,

1:15:09

right. I think that's, this is the best

1:15:11

part of loving

1:15:13

films. Especially this period now,

1:15:15

debating with friends over

1:15:18

drinks, or at dinner and stuff like, I like that.

1:15:21

Well, I didn't like that. Like in the push and

1:15:23

pull, and you're having a conversation about film, and

1:15:25

when you just shut it down immediately with, well,

1:15:30

this is why, because they don't wanna support

1:15:32

women, et cetera, et cetera, without

1:15:35

getting into the specifics of

1:15:38

that, because there is misogyny

1:15:40

at play, probably, particularly in

1:15:43

Greta. But is

1:15:45

there misogyny at play in Margot

1:15:47

not being nominated when she's up

1:15:49

against other women? Right,

1:15:52

right. Well, also, by the way, you just

1:15:54

said it, to me, there's actually something reorienting

1:15:56

about getting into a discussion about something I

1:15:58

am personally obsessed with, and somebody else. you

1:16:00

know, is indifferent about or whatever

1:16:02

because it's nice to remember That

1:16:05

this is just a product that exists outside of

1:16:07

you like I'm guilty of over identifying with this

1:16:09

stuff myself You know what I mean? Remember a

1:16:11

few years ago people like oh jagged little pills

1:16:13

not good or there was that Jezebel article or

1:16:15

something that actually was Refreshing to the soul ultimately

1:16:18

even though I would obviously kill for that Canadian

1:16:20

woman Um Yeah,

1:16:27

I mean is this this this over identification

1:16:29

with pop culture is really I mean it's

1:16:31

great for advertisers You know, it's great for

1:16:33

execs because they want people to do that

1:16:36

but there just has to be

1:16:38

this separation of The

1:16:41

product and who you are as a person

1:16:43

so you can have a healthy debate about

1:16:45

art and culture and I feel like that's

1:16:47

why Criticism is dying.

1:16:50

That's why pitchfork is fucking dead,

1:16:52

you know being folded in the GQ like

1:16:54

it's all it's it's all connected Again

1:16:59

Barbie has a lot of very funny moments Personal

1:17:02

humane moments. It also is a car commercial

1:17:04

in the doll commercial So I mean

1:17:07

there's things to love and then things to like just question

1:17:09

as a you know a viewer Also,

1:17:12

maybe she needed one more scene But if

1:17:14

we want one more scene in like a

1:17:16

monologue But if we really want to talk

1:17:18

about someone who gave a hilarious performance

1:17:20

in Barbie and supporting and a woman

1:17:22

who snubs Issa, right? She I was

1:17:24

a part of the movie. Yes, the movie every line reading. Yes What's

1:17:31

so long the doll universe the wit her

1:17:33

choices, you know, if yeah They

1:17:36

were all very fun. Also very funny to have the president

1:17:38

in the United States as part of the story Like and

1:17:40

she hasn't made the discourse that much. Yeah What

1:17:42

was it her pronouncing Godfather? You

1:17:47

saw also very funny in um, are

1:17:50

in good in American fiction by the way, oh,

1:17:53

yeah, she's great even with that wig I

1:17:57

don't know what's going on in that scene with the hair,

1:17:59

but I will say say that

1:18:02

you have to remember too who

1:18:05

is voting for these nominations by the

1:18:07

way. America Ferrara was not shocked

1:18:09

that she got in because when you think about

1:18:11

actors voting for other actors, actors

1:18:13

always flock to the monologue.

1:18:16

If a character has a monologue to

1:18:18

an actor that means I'm

1:18:20

acting. It means that's that's the role that

1:18:22

they wish they'd be playing. You know it's

1:18:25

if you did theater in college the amount

1:18:27

of times I had to sit through that

1:18:30

inane monologue from Neil

1:18:32

Simon's The Star Spangled Girl. It's

1:18:35

just it's so much but actors

1:18:37

they get the attached

1:18:39

to a monologue and

1:18:42

you'll never hear the fucking end of it. It sounds like you have

1:18:44

a case of the Biloxi Blues. I don't there's no care. No you're

1:18:48

right I feel like Julianne Moore in May-December maybe

1:18:50

needed a monologue moment in order to cinch

1:18:53

something closer to a nod. Well

1:18:55

and Natalie Portman's monologue is why the

1:18:57

actors didn't vote for her. It was

1:19:00

giving his dog tolerance. Okay?

1:19:04

Natalie Portman said get up on

1:19:06

your good foot. Okay? Break a

1:19:08

leg. Break

1:19:11

a leg? How about your

1:19:13

good foot? I'm not gonna

1:19:15

break any legs. I'm gonna

1:19:17

get the part. Yeah. All

1:19:20

right well we've solved both

1:19:22

problems this week. We'll see how the Oscars

1:19:24

goes. Again by the way I'm also writing

1:19:26

for the Oscars. Can I just say

1:19:28

something? Don't shoot at me. It's like if you see me

1:19:30

on the street and you're upset please don't. Just you know

1:19:32

let me live once more ceremony please. East

1:19:38

Coast, West Coast, Podcast, B. You're

1:19:43

gonna shop first and then like the next

1:19:45

week. And who

1:19:47

did it? Diddy.

1:19:51

We need to move on from that. No. No. Bye.

1:19:56

All right well we're back. If you

1:19:58

can imagine we still have to keep it And

1:20:09

we are back with our favorite segment of the episode,

1:20:11

it's Keep It. Lewis, who are

1:20:14

you going to piss off now? Okay, well, I'm

1:20:16

actually shocked that this is sort of a light Keep

1:20:18

It for me. I'm not passionate about it, but it

1:20:21

needs to be stated for that reason, which is to

1:20:23

say, keep it to the new Justin Timberlake single, which

1:20:25

to me is neither here nor there. I listened to

1:20:27

it and then it's one of those songs I sort

1:20:30

of forgot I had been listening to, but I'm so

1:20:32

used to being extremely worked up about this person. Like

1:20:34

I'm not like, you know, I

1:20:37

enjoy Britney Spears, I'm not like a defensive

1:20:39

Britney stan or anything, but just when I hear the

1:20:41

name come up, I'm like, Oh God, you know, usually

1:20:43

it just these feelings

1:20:45

of like ancient, you know,

1:20:47

douchebag Armani exchange grossness,

1:20:50

you know, fill my brain. And

1:20:52

so when I when I heard he was coming back, I

1:20:54

was exhausted immediately. And then I heard the song and it

1:20:57

was sort of pleasantly non existent for me. So

1:20:59

I'm just going to say, keep it to that. I

1:21:02

find the upswing in

1:21:04

the Britney selfish song being ushered up

1:21:07

the charts by her stance, amusing and

1:21:09

witty. More of that we

1:21:11

like that. But yeah,

1:21:13

the song is not one of his best to me. And

1:21:15

you know what, if I had to pick his best song, would

1:21:18

this be crazy to you? I might go with Summer Love.

1:21:21

Hmm. It's a very

1:21:23

good song. I mean, whatever.

1:21:26

We're we're outside.

1:21:28

It's July. I enjoy it. Yeah.

1:21:32

I don't know. I feel like

1:21:34

for me, it's probably sexy back. I

1:21:39

mean, that definitely took over the world. I mean, like,

1:21:41

or that's what probably like

1:21:43

what goes around comes around. Actually, I just really

1:21:45

love how that feels. Yeah, I will say about

1:21:48

sexy back though. I mean, like if he made

1:21:50

it into Bartlett's familiar quotations, that would get in.

1:21:52

I mean, it's like bigger than just a song.

1:21:54

It became something you couldn't stop

1:21:56

hearing wherever you went, not just and not

1:21:58

just the actual song itself. But the sentiment

1:22:00

itself you would hear everywhere Listen,

1:22:03

I like the song it is giving Pandora

1:22:06

station at the office of I huh great Yeah,

1:22:08

by the way, we need to hear something at

1:22:10

the office we right I I don't want to

1:22:13

hear it It's typing at the cubicle next door

1:22:20

My life Other

1:22:23

than Tony who we've met together Kemmel

1:22:26

offices in the fifth and rosimos Should

1:22:31

become a live from Paris around these monsters

1:22:33

the word but yes Around

1:22:36

these months. There you go And

1:22:38

you know what? Don't correct

1:22:41

my okay. I know you've been flawless

1:22:43

up to this point. It seems a shame to

1:22:45

start criticizing it now My

1:22:49

friend Nico has gotten me obsessed with saying the

1:22:52

phrase mama mia the way Italians do which is

1:22:54

to mama mia Yeah,

1:22:56

like you said in a celebratory way. It's

1:22:58

meant to be like I'm despairing like mama

1:23:00

Mia too many people Oh house, you know

1:23:03

brings a new take to the title mama

1:23:05

Mia. Here we go again, right? That's

1:23:07

just mama me. Here we go And

1:23:12

I think we're probably gonna get three more here we go again than that

1:23:15

There's no way we're done with mama Mia just yet the movie

1:23:19

Movies we need another classic from old Parker

1:23:24

I love his name. Yeah. Anyway, um

1:23:26

my keep it this week. It's also

1:23:28

a light keep it too You

1:23:30

know because i'm not Against

1:23:33

this woman. Uh, we know that I do love

1:23:35

her but um taylor swift

1:23:38

at the super bowl and

1:23:42

My argument my keep it is

1:23:44

not really towards taylor herself. Listen,

1:23:46

um, the Kansas city chiefs

1:23:49

are going to the super bowl, right? Um, they

1:23:51

are playing the 49ers They're playing

1:23:54

the game of football by the way if you're

1:23:56

unfamiliar. Yes. Yes. Um, it's

1:23:58

what ted lasso is about And

1:24:03

the game is fast approaching,

1:24:05

but Taylor is going to

1:24:07

be in Tokyo performing

1:24:09

like the day before. First

1:24:11

of all, there have been a lot of tweets

1:24:13

about, Taylor make the game and she will be

1:24:16

making the game. Tokyo is like a day ahead

1:24:18

of Vegas. So she'll be there. There's

1:24:20

a lot of talk about how it's her 13th game. Bring

1:24:24

this fucking Murder by Number shit back

1:24:26

around. I do not

1:24:28

want to hear Taylor fans using their

1:24:30

favorite thing, basic addition to create theories

1:24:33

about Taylor. And this is where

1:24:35

the keep it is coming from. Okay. The

1:24:39

Bruhaha that will be

1:24:41

surrounding Taylor at Bruhaha.

1:24:45

Anyway, that

1:24:47

will be surrounding Taylor at the Super

1:24:50

Bowl. It's actually what I cannot take

1:24:52

because you know, it was giving Osama

1:24:54

bin Laden war room the day after

1:24:58

that game on Sunday. Okay. You

1:25:01

know that every ad company,

1:25:03

every PR girl across the

1:25:05

US brainstorming, how can we

1:25:07

reference Taylor Swift being at the Super

1:25:09

Bowl? And we are going

1:25:11

to be inundated by Taylor at the Super

1:25:14

Bowl content. I'm actually tired of the Taylor

1:25:16

Swift and Travis Kelsy relationship cycle

1:25:18

that the media is ringing

1:25:22

nothing out of. There was a fucking article that

1:25:24

I saw that said, um, Travis is really trying

1:25:26

to plan something

1:25:34

romantic for Taylor Swift on

1:25:36

Valentine's Day. You fucking think

1:25:39

you mean they're dating? They

1:25:41

know each other. Yeah, right. They'll,

1:25:43

they'll go through a day in

1:25:45

February together in a traditional way.

1:25:49

It's like, oh, Ira is hoping

1:25:51

to have dinner with his best friend next

1:25:53

week. Oh really? I'm

1:25:55

going to hang out with my friend. Insane

1:25:58

predicts. Yeah. It

1:26:00

is just I get that anything about them

1:26:02

is popular right now, but give me something

1:26:05

else bitch Yeah, I mean just give me

1:26:07

a take okay at least that at least

1:26:09

that is Taylor Swift the lesbian take Crazy

1:26:12

galaxy brain does it was you know

1:26:14

it was? Something that we wasn't

1:26:16

used to you know no, but you're right like

1:26:19

I think that's sort of the the tough thing

1:26:21

about Her in general, but also

1:26:23

this relationship where it's like sometimes

1:26:25

they do hug each other in public

1:26:27

But otherwise there's just no there there

1:26:30

in terms of like things to talk about they're

1:26:32

not you know for example Marilyn

1:26:34

Manson and Rose McGowan where it's just like the sheer

1:26:36

appearance of them is like let me write an essay

1:26:39

You know there's just nothing to say He

1:26:42

does look good though the fits go crazy. Yeah,

1:26:44

yeah Get

1:26:51

ready with me, okay? I'm

1:26:54

actually wearing. I'm actually wearing some um

1:26:58

Air forces that I saw Kelsey wearing

1:27:00

one so I think I actually

1:27:03

Like following him on Instagram because I do like

1:27:05

his fits because he's a football player the broad

1:27:07

shoulders if it fits him It's gonna fit me

1:27:09

did I tell you something when I over Thanksgiving

1:27:11

or Christmas I was at home with my family

1:27:14

and extended family, and they had the game of

1:27:16

football on These men are

1:27:18

so athletic I don't know if you know this the

1:27:20

bodies have changed so much from what I thought a

1:27:22

football player looked like now they're like like Track

1:27:25

stars 2x like just it's

1:27:27

a completely different body type Yeah,

1:27:31

you know a lot of a lot of them got you know

1:27:33

that um a Lot

1:27:35

of them have that stair master. That's

1:27:38

exactly what they have yes precisely. It's

1:27:40

it's it's giving It's

1:27:42

giving what's going on here. That's gay culture. That's not just

1:27:44

a shelf. That's a Barnes and Noble. You know what I'm

1:27:46

saying Am

1:27:49

I a rapper tell me They

1:27:53

walk around with the same scars yeah Okay,

1:27:57

have you seen the 49ers? hotter

1:28:00

team by the way are they yeah

1:28:03

they are baby Jimmy

1:28:06

Garoppolo hmm right right right yes

1:28:08

yes yes it's a quorum Barkley

1:28:11

these are men okay love

1:28:14

that group our home you just said actually

1:28:16

follow quite a few football players on Instagram

1:28:18

just just for the looks I sure don't

1:28:20

I mean I they have nothing to give

1:28:22

me and I have nothing to give them

1:28:24

we love that mutual understanding we

1:28:27

should really bring back playgirl okay yeah

1:28:29

right not for the article I'm

1:28:32

talking about opening that centerfold and

1:28:35

there is a man reclining I

1:28:37

think that our nation has really kind

1:28:39

of lost something with the loss of

1:28:41

softcore porn yeah you're right there's a

1:28:43

lot of hardcore porn all day usually

1:28:45

by people that you know you're

1:28:49

like oh there's my friend getting

1:28:51

railed right uh on a balcony

1:28:53

overlooking a Starbucks in Denver means

1:28:55

it's Tuesday yeah yeah but

1:28:58

what happened to softcore porn

1:29:01

right a little light nudity

1:29:03

a little suggestion okay a

1:29:05

little show a little ankle it

1:29:07

happened one night the porn I

1:29:09

want yeah okay in olden days

1:29:12

a flash of stocking was what's

1:29:14

on or something shocking but now

1:29:16

God knows Fisting

1:29:18

Co Porter would write that lyric today

1:29:20

I just want to say he would

1:29:28

but the last thing I want to say about Travis Kosey

1:29:30

is the Fisko crazy but there's something going on with his

1:29:32

walk yes what do you mean he walks a little

1:29:36

bit like Annalise Keene yeah

1:29:41

well just wondering is it the but is

1:29:44

it because you know he's he's he's packing

1:29:46

yeah and are you happy to see me

1:29:48

kind of way maybe it's that maybe that's

1:29:50

sometimes why straight men give like a little

1:29:52

waddle but it is giving how to get

1:29:55

away with murder so go

1:29:57

and look at him walking and come

1:29:59

back to I know they're probably gonna show a

1:30:01

clip on the YouTube This

1:30:04

is the kind of reading we recommend by the way go ahead

1:30:06

and watch him waddle down the street Tell me what you think

1:30:09

about that Everyone

1:30:11

look at that and there will be a

1:30:13

pop quiz tomorrow. Okay great great great. Love

1:30:16

that. Yeah. All right Well, that's our

1:30:18

show. I think we actually got

1:30:20

a lot off our chest. I actually feel

1:30:22

somewhat Exorcized, you know Roman

1:30:24

and his reloading Until

1:30:27

you get docked right? Oh, yeah, this is the last week

1:30:29

of my life. I mean to say that yes Barbie

1:30:34

reloaded the ria scary

1:30:39

Do you know what a ria is like

1:30:41

the next addition? Oh That's

1:30:44

fair. Yeah, it's also it's also

1:30:46

juggling. Okay. Well, that's your territory.

1:30:48

Yeah. Oh, all right I'm

1:30:51

a spring breaker over Train

1:30:54

starting over there I'm

1:30:57

in season six of the wire tough

1:31:01

Yeah, the podcast season of the wire would

1:31:03

win Emmys. I just want to put that out there What's

1:31:06

the most? Keep

1:31:17

it is a cricket media production. Our

1:31:19

senior producer is Kendra James Our producer

1:31:21

is Chris Lord and our associate producer

1:31:23

is Malcolm Whitfield Our executive

1:31:25

producers are Ira Madison the third and Lewis

1:31:27

Patel. This episode was recorded and mixed by

1:31:30

Evan Sutton Thank you to our digital team

1:31:32

Megan Patsel and Rachel Gajewski and to Matt

1:31:34

de Groot and David tolls for production support

1:31:36

every week and as always Live

1:31:39

studio Hollywood

1:31:50

exiles from the BBC World Service and

1:31:52

CBC podcast is the story of how

1:31:54

Hollywood became the focus of a decades-long

1:31:56

FBI Campaign to root out communism in

1:31:59

America Grant, Best Supporting Actress,

1:32:01

1975, and communist witch hunt survivor, we

1:32:03

speak your name. Host, Una

1:32:06

Chaplin, wow, that's amazing, guides listeners

1:32:08

through the real-life events of J.

1:32:10

Edgar Hoover's personal obsession with her

1:32:12

grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, through the notorious

1:32:14

House Un-American Activities Committee hearings and

1:32:16

the Hollywood Blacklist. As a tale

1:32:18

of glamour, duplicity,

1:32:21

and political intrigue as it

1:32:23

reverberates in the culture wars to this

1:32:25

day. You started with Christine Amunpour Inflection

1:32:27

and then just went into Zany. Listen

1:32:31

now wherever you get your podcasts.