0:03

Hi

0:06

everyone, this is your host Dana Balutz. We

0:08

recently wrapped season four of Kerning

0:10

Cultures. And before we

0:13

go into deep production mode for our next season,

0:15

we thought we'd leave you with an episode from another

0:18

Kerning Cultures network production. It's

0:20

called Al Empire. Al Empire

0:22

is a podcast that features awesome

0:24

and exceptional Arabs around the world and their

0:26

journey to the top of their industry. For

0:29

this third season of Al Empire, I sat

0:31

down with the amazing Palestinian-American

0:34

stand-up comedian and actor, Mo Hamid.

0:36

We discussed being a refugee in Houston,

0:38

Texas, touring comedy clubs

0:41

post-9-11, and how he hopes

0:43

to influence the culture with his art. If

0:46

you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe

0:48

to Al Empire on your favorite podcast app

0:51

to receive new episodes every week. That's

0:53

Al Empire. A-L-E-M-P-I-R-E.

0:58

Thanks so much, take

0:59

care.

1:36

I'm Dana Balutz, and welcome back to

1:38

season three of Al Empire. I

1:40

know it's been a minute since we've dropped an episode of

1:42

Al Empire, and I promise

1:45

it's for good reason. We've been super

1:47

busy working on new seasons of Kerning Cultures,

1:49

which if you haven't listened to, please

1:51

go do that. But after this, not

1:53

now. I know a lot of you have missed Al Empire,

1:56

and honestly, I miss it too.

1:58

So we thought we might as well... just come back

2:01

and kind of say hi again and

2:03

meet some amazing people that we have lined

2:06

up for you. So let's get into

2:08

it. We're

2:10

kicking off the season with someone who

2:13

is amazing, an

2:15

icon not just in Hollywood, but

2:18

obviously for Arab Americans worldwide.

2:21

He is none other than the

2:23

amazing comedian, Mohammed.

2:26

Scan my travel document. Huge exclamation

2:28

point comes up. Please seek help from representative

2:30

of my Susan BAM. The check engine light just came on

2:33

in the damn thing. I remember

2:35

the first time I heard Mo, which I

2:37

think is probably how many of us

2:39

first heard

2:39

about Mo. It was a clip of

2:41

him doing a bit about being at the

2:44

border authority. He's like,

2:45

sir, this is

2:48

not a passport.

2:52

I speak English perfectly, ma'am. I don't know why you're

2:54

talking to me this way. And I thought it was so

2:57

funny. I think I watched that clip like at

2:59

least 20 times and people were sharing

3:01

it on WhatsApp and sharing it by email. And

3:04

then here we are today. Many years

3:07

later, Mo has his own Netflix

3:09

show and many others and is building an

3:11

empire of his own. He's not just

3:13

a comedian, but he's an actor, a writer

3:16

and a million other things. It's

3:18

incredible to have witnessed his ascension from

3:21

afar.

3:23

So before we begin, we're going to take a step back

3:25

and say if you've been living under a rock and

3:27

don't know who Mo Ahmed is, he's a Palestinian-American

3:31

comedian. He spent his early years

3:33

in Kuwait. But in October 1990,

3:35

when Mo was nine, like many people,

3:38

his family was forced to flee during the first

3:40

Gulf War. And they moved to the U.S.

3:43

and ended up settling in none other than

3:45

Houston, Texas.

3:46

You might recognize Mo from the hit

3:49

Hulu show, Rami. He's also

3:51

in the DC superhero film, Black Adam.

3:54

And he has several shows on Netflix. Two

3:56

of them are comedy specials that I highly

3:58

recommend, The Vagabond.

3:59

from 2018 and Muhammad's

4:02

in Texas from 2021. Both

4:05

so, so funny and his latest

4:07

show, a series, is pretty

4:09

incredible. Would you like

4:11

to try some chocolate hummus?

4:12

You say chocolate hummus? You just insulted

4:15

my grandmother. Ociinto, I did not know

4:17

that hummus was Mexican. The show is called

4:19

Mo, it's on Netflix, just MO,

4:22

and it's a comedy drama loosely based on his

4:24

own life as a Palestinian refugee

4:27

growing up in Texas.

4:28

I've never been to Palestine. I don't have citizenship

4:30

there, I don't have citizenship here. I'm like a refugee

4:32

free agent. I watched the whole thing

4:34

in one sitting. I properly binged

4:36

it. And so last year I had the immense

4:39

honor of interviewing Mo for the first

4:41

time and for a vampire.

4:43

He was in a studio in Houston and I was in

4:45

LA and my audio sadly

4:47

sucks and it's pretty terrible for

4:50

this recording. And to be honest, my recorder

4:52

ran out of battery and I hate making

4:54

excuses, but I

4:56

hope you can still kind of listen to it and enjoy

4:58

it.

5:03

Mo, obviously it's well known that you came

5:05

to this country as a refugee and for

5:08

the purposes of this podcast, we know a lot about

5:10

your background and how you came from Kuwait. But

5:12

I wonder if you can tell me a little bit

5:14

about when you arrived to Houston

5:17

as a refugee, if when you think

5:19

of that moment, if you have a particular memory

5:21

that comes to mind,

5:23

you're smiling, so I guess you already know the answer.

5:26

I mean, it's a lot, but

5:30

I just remember just being fish out of water

5:32

here. I just remember that

5:34

when we first got here, it was like two

5:36

days before Halloween and I've never

5:39

heard about what Halloween was. Nobody

5:41

even told me like, oh, Halloween's coming, FYI,

5:44

people are gonna be dressed like psychopaths.

5:47

Nobody ever said anything. And then like two

5:50

days later, everybody was just walking around like, we're

5:53

zombies and just looking

5:55

crazy. And I was just mortified. I'm like,

5:57

what the hell is going on?

5:59

It was a lot to

6:02

take in. But yeah,

6:05

I mean, that's one of the funny things that happened. But

6:07

when I first got here, it was obviously a big

6:10

learning curve. I was nine

6:12

years old. I was mad. I was confused.

6:16

I had a lot of questions. But

6:18

that was the big thing when I first got here.

6:20

I was getting used to American

6:23

culture, understanding Western culture,

6:26

and just kind of connecting the dots

6:28

that way and understanding it. That was

6:30

a big, big deal. And it went on for a while.

6:33

There was a lot of catching up to do. So I

6:35

made a fool of myself a few times in school.

6:39

It was just part of the process.

6:40

There was a point where you

6:42

stopped going to school, I read, and you

6:45

kind of became a little bit of a rebel. And your

6:47

teacher made a deal with you. Can you talk

6:49

a little bit about that?

6:50

Yeah, I was 14. It

6:52

was right when my dad passed away. I let him out. And

6:55

I just quit at that point. It

6:57

was just five years of

7:00

trying to assimilate at that point and

7:02

working really hard to

7:05

fit in and making

7:07

great friends, though, that I still have to this

7:09

day. But it was

7:11

just like the last straw for me.

7:14

I just kind of quit.

7:17

Just quit everything. I

7:19

just stopped going to school. I just stopped. I

7:22

was like a little grown man. I started working

7:24

when I was 12 years old. And it was

7:26

like Ferris, you've seen that movie Ferris, Bueller's Day Off.

7:31

How could I possibly be expected to handle school

7:33

in a day like this? I

7:35

was living like that the whole time. I was just

7:38

going to baseball games, sitting at the

7:40

first baseline on great seats. I was

7:42

selling fake watches to

7:45

people in the neighborhood, mostly

7:47

guys that

7:50

were kind of like into my similar situation

7:52

that stopped going to school as well. They were making money.

7:55

God knows how, but I never asked.

7:57

I just would just sell all these sunglasses

7:59

and watches. I found the wholesale district

8:02

through my dad before he passed away and

8:05

figured you can get like merchandise through there and then

8:07

you can flip it. So that's what I was doing. I

8:09

was like, I'm making good money. I'm going to be a comedian

8:12

anyway. I was

8:14

just going through a lot emotionally. I just

8:16

left. I was just living my best life.

8:20

And then my teacher, my English

8:22

teacher, Mrs. Reed and Mrs.

8:24

Broderick in ninth grade, Mrs. Reed

8:27

in particular walked up to me and she said, how would your

8:29

father feel if you don't graduate? Which

8:31

would be Faleeha, man. If you don't graduate, it's like

8:33

a huge Faleeha. Like

8:35

it'd be horrible. Big scandal

8:38

for those that don't speak Arabic. It would be a big,

8:40

big scandal. My family, I'm the youngest. I'm

8:42

the only one. Everybody else has graduated,

8:44

has multiple degrees and it would

8:47

be horrible. She goes, don't you want to be a comedian?

8:49

I was like, yeah. Because I

8:51

made it really well known. I would tell everybody, I'm going

8:53

to be a comedian. I'm going to do stand up comedy. That's

8:56

what I was going to do. And everybody was just like, yeah,

8:58

a lot of pressure on yourself. I just knew. I

9:00

just knew. And I just kept

9:02

saying, and I figured if I kept saying it, then

9:05

something would happen. And

9:08

so my teacher, she made a deal with me. She goes,

9:10

if you can go up in front of the class and

9:12

for extra credit, if you can recite a

9:14

monologue from Shakespeare, since it's English class,

9:17

I will let you do

9:18

stand up in front of the class

9:21

and help you make up the

9:23

assignments so you can pass this class at least.

9:26

But the deal is you can't skip and you can't skip

9:28

any other classes. And if I find

9:30

out you skip, I'm going to give you the same grade

9:32

you have now. And I'm going to basically like, I'm going to fail

9:34

you. I was like, this is a no brainer. I

9:37

just went up in front of the class. I was like, can I just

9:39

do this monologue from Hamlet

9:41

right now? And she was just like, yeah, I

9:43

was like, does it have to be like serious?

9:46

Can I just make it funny in front of the class? She goes,

9:48

yeah, I'd be able to go for it. I'm

9:50

like, okay. So I just went up in front of the class

9:52

to be, or not to be. And

9:55

I just like rift, you know,

9:57

playing with it and just playing with the text.

10:00

The whole class was like laughing like crazy and I was

10:02

hooked. I was like, oh man, Mrs. Reed, can I come in

10:04

tomorrow and do some stand-up? She was like, yeah, you

10:07

can't absolutely. So I went in front

10:09

of the class the next day and did some stand-up that

10:11

I riffed on and I would

10:13

do impressions of like delivery,

10:16

pizza delivery drivers and then

10:18

the person's reaction to that delivery

10:20

and then, oh, and then what

10:23

I would do is I would

10:25

put on like a super tight sports coat

10:28

and I would roast the kids in class

10:31

as Chris Farley. It killed

10:33

and kids were laughing and then I went

10:35

on for a while, a few weeks and then my

10:37

teacher took me to the theater arts department like, hey man,

10:39

this kid's been doing like original

10:42

stand-up and all these accents

10:44

and stuff. I think he belongs in theater

10:47

and she took me to Lu Jean Kreisner

10:49

who was a theater arts teacher at that time. She

10:52

goes, okay, sure, come

10:54

audition for something. And

10:56

I was too scared. I was like, oh man, audition.

10:58

I don't know. It was right. And so

11:01

the next year I went in and auditioned

11:03

and I made it. Then

11:06

next thing you know, like six months later, I was like

11:08

getting lead roles, all the lead roles in theater.

11:12

I was sneaking away and doing stand-up whenever

11:14

I could. I was too young

11:16

to get into the clubs and

11:19

they were like, well, your mom has to bring you

11:21

or your parent has to bring you. I'm like, yeah,

11:23

I'm going to tell my mom to bring me to a comedy

11:25

club where there's like liquor everywhere

11:27

and all kinds of stuff. Like my mom would never

11:29

do that. All she hears is club. I'm like,

11:32

my son's just going to be, oh, that's

11:36

what he's going to be. So

11:39

it didn't work out. So my friend Nick, he

11:42

was the one that would sneak me to the comedy clubs. When

11:45

I was 17, he took me to the comedy club

11:47

and he was like, well, are you ready?

12:00

But his name happens to be

12:02

Osama.

12:03

Yeah. I

12:06

love to take him

12:08

out. I love

12:10

to take him out. I said, hey, what's

12:12

up? You want to go out to Walmart or buy you a toy? He's

12:15

excited. We get

12:17

to Walmart now. He's eight years old.

12:20

He's running away. I

12:23

can't call him.

12:24

I'm

12:34

sitting

12:36

there, who's

12:37

sitting there? Sammy!

12:39

Sammy, come here. He

12:41

looks at me now. My

12:43

name's just Sammy. So that's

12:45

how I got into the comedy club

12:47

scene that showed up to these the funniest person

12:50

competition. I know that's how I got

12:52

into the comedy club scene.

12:54

I ended up making it through the first pass. I

12:57

didn't have any material. But

12:59

it was amazing that I even made a wildcard. And then the next

13:01

year I was in the finals of that contest. And

13:04

then I realized comedians shouldn't be in competition with each other. They

13:08

should be just outworking each

13:10

other, just trying to get as many hours as you can on stage.

13:14

And that's what I did. And comedians

13:16

would just snatch me up. Headliners would just be like,

13:18

hey, I'm going to get a toy. I'm going

13:20

to get a toy. I'm going to get a toy. And they would

13:22

just snatch me up. Headliners would just be like, hey, man, you

13:24

want to come open for me? You want to come feature for

13:26

me? And that lasted about maybe

13:28

six months before they were like, okay, you

13:31

need to go do your own thing now. You

13:33

need to just go. Because I

13:35

was just, I was, you know, I was

13:38

meant to be a headliner. You know, that's what I am.

13:44

I want to ask you, Mo, like, you

13:46

know, a lot of Arab Americans, I think,

13:49

either choose, especially

13:51

creatives, like either lean into their

13:53

Arabness or lean out of it and

13:55

try and assimilate and try and just

13:58

be like everyone else. and

14:01

go that route. You very much

14:03

have chosen a route where you're leaning

14:05

into your backgrounds,

14:07

you're leaning into the fact that you're Arab American.

14:10

And I wonder if that's a conscious decision or

14:13

you were put in that box or like, how

14:16

did you make that decision? Well,

14:18

I was very conscious of it ever since I was a

14:20

little kid.

14:21

When I would show up to the comedy clubs

14:23

and I realized like, I'm the only one here. You

14:26

know how hard that is?

14:28

You know how much guts it takes to

14:31

like travel the South by yourself in a car,

14:34

in these little hole in the walls to

14:36

have all this like prejudice against you

14:39

while you're doing that? You know, it was extremely

14:41

difficult.

14:42

I get a lot of different reactions, man. I was working

14:44

in Little Rock, Arkansas and everything was going great.

14:47

Yeah, that's right, baby.

14:51

I was working, I'm on stage, everybody's laughing,

14:53

having a good time. I say I'm an Arab American,

14:55

the whole room gets quiet and one

14:57

guy in the back goes, oh hell no.

15:03

I don't even remember being like, there was a Muslim

15:06

person around doing standup

15:08

close to me if they weren't even Arab. I

15:11

was just like, wow. Well, if

15:14

there's nobody else like me, might

15:16

as well talk about the stuff that I know and

15:19

the stuff that, where I come from. Absolutely,

15:21

I leaned into it. I think the people that don't lean

15:23

into it are idiots, personally. I

15:26

think they're trying to be something that they're not. And

15:29

it's something like you're denying

15:31

who you are.

15:32

Where for me, it was always about just being

15:35

authentic to myself. And

15:37

authentic to my heritage and where I come

15:39

from. And I'd always knew

15:41

that Hollywood needed to

15:43

catch up and whenever they catch up, I'll be here.

15:46

It's truly into like being authentic

15:48

to myself was always the

15:50

goal. Like what a tragedy

15:53

would it be that I made it off of pretending

15:55

I was something that I'm not. Boy,

15:58

that would really just be gut.

15:59

wrenching.

16:06

How have you influenced the

16:08

culture that is like the barometer

16:10

of success to me and the fact that

16:12

people are using what you've said

16:15

on stage to either create a business

16:17

out of create TikToks create

16:20

videos t-shirts

16:23

or what have you that tells you like oh I'm doing

16:25

something very powerful here to where

16:27

it's truly influencing culture and that's

16:29

what I'm thinking about and that's what I that's

16:31

what I view is like success

16:34

but when I released Muhammad in Texas and then

16:36

like a week later my mom gets

16:38

a whatsapp video of

16:40

me and they don't even know that's my

16:42

mom crazy

16:45

or if my aunt from

16:47

our village of like 2,000 people forwards

16:51

her a video of me of the encore whoosh

16:53

boy I've done something there I

16:56

got chills right now like that makes me emotional

16:58

it's like man the ride has been so

17:00

heavy and so long that

17:03

man it just makes me feel so good that I'm able

17:05

to like put my stamp on things

17:10

I just wonder how you do it like how do you

17:12

like where did you get like first of all

17:14

Arabs are really judgey

17:17

you know like so judgey not only in

17:19

the family unit but the outer like everyone

17:21

is so overtly judgmental

17:24

I think in our culture as well like it's

17:26

a great thing there's a lot of passion but but

17:29

I just wonder like how do you still how

17:31

do you continue to do that how do you take

17:33

a get in your car and go to the south after

17:35

9-11 are you kidding me at what like that is

17:37

nuts like where

17:40

did you get that from

17:42

I just really like knew in my

17:45

core this is what I'm supposed to be doing you

17:47

know like and the more people said that

17:49

I couldn't do it the more I had to

17:51

do it

17:52

and that's it and it sucks

17:54

and there was tears there was like exhaustion

17:57

there's all of it but

17:59

I knew and nobody

18:02

else did. And you have to be honest with yourself.

18:04

Like some people get into business and I see it and

18:07

they're like, they don't belong here. Like you stink.

18:09

Like you're never gonna get good

18:11

or you don't really have the purpose to like

18:13

be a standup comedian. You just wanna be famous.

18:17

You just wanna be popular. You

18:19

just want attention. You don't really love the

18:21

art form. You're just doing standups so

18:23

you can get an acting job. Where

18:26

for me, it's like everything that I

18:28

get outside of standup is to do this

18:30

thing more, which is standup.

18:32

So that's where it is.

18:34

And so it just feels

18:36

really good to be

18:39

able to do these things and start telling these stories

18:42

and to get into it. And we're just barely scratching

18:44

the surface now. Like there's so much to come,

18:47

shawl low, like I'm very, very excited to

18:50

put it all out there before I'm gone from

18:51

this place.

19:00

Do you remember when you felt like, oh, I made

19:03

it. Like,

19:05

did you do you remember that breakthrough moment

19:08

or that?

19:09

I still don't feel that way. I still don't feel

19:11

that way. Come on. No, I swear

19:13

to God, I don't feel that way at all. When

19:15

you're on stage, Dave Chappelle, you don't

19:18

feel like, you know, when you're on drama

19:20

or when you have this amazing

19:22

special on Netflix.

19:23

Yeah, I don't have a moment

19:25

like, I made it. I

19:28

just wanna do this baby, look at me. Nothing,

19:32

that hasn't come out yet. I

19:34

don't know if necessarily it will because

19:36

it's just about creating more

19:38

and more and more. But definitely

19:41

having those moments where it's

19:43

like Royal Albert Hall and it's you

19:46

and John Stewart and Chappelle

19:48

doing shows there and

19:50

four nights we're just touring Europe together

19:53

and you're just like, oh man, this is the stuff. Start

19:55

clapping your hands right now. You know him from his Netflix

19:58

special, Vagabond, he also has a. an F-itch

20:00

TV show about to come out called Mo. Give

20:03

it up for my boy, Mo Ammer.

20:08

But please, I hope nobody watching this and be like,

20:10

oh, he's full of sh**. No, I do appreciate

20:12

what I'm doing and I think it's dope. And I think the moment

20:15

where I felt like, oh man, like

20:17

we really, I'm really like, we are doing

20:20

this, is

20:20

when I pulled up on my motorcycle

20:23

in full

20:25

costume where I was filming Black Adam.

20:27

It was like a cigarette in my mouth. Hanging

20:30

out, just buh-gig-gig-gig-gig-gig-gig. I just pulled up

20:32

right to set and it's this huge

20:34

set and there's the rock in full costume.

20:37

You know, it looks,

20:38

he's the rock. It looks spectacular in

20:40

that damn thing. It's like the best costume

20:44

ever. And the makeup artists

20:46

are like,

20:47

Mo, you look just so cool.

20:49

I'm not gonna lie. You look, that was the coolest

20:51

entrance ever. And I looked around, there's like this $300

20:54

million movie. I'm just

20:56

looking around like, you know what? Yeah, I think we made

20:58

it. You know what I mean? Like that

21:01

was probably one of those

21:03

moments. But I'm always in my body too

21:06

much and I'm always like a chip on my shoulder type

21:08

of dude and I need to like snap out of that a little bit,

21:10

I'm sure. And I think that's what it

21:12

is, is just like having this fight in you all

21:14

the time.

21:16

And it comes from being

21:18

displaced. And it comes to landing

21:21

in a place where most people don't understand

21:24

and having to fight through like

21:27

so many, just grind

21:29

through so much misunderstanding.

21:32

And I think I always feel like

21:34

I gotta do more. I need to go. I need to, don't

21:37

get comfortable. You know, I think that's like

21:39

the immigrant mentality. You gotta outwork everybody,

21:42

you know?

21:42

I mean, what's great about you also is that I

21:44

think you have, even in your comedy,

21:46

you have a lot of empathy. Like I remember the

21:49

Netflix special where at the end you talk about your

21:51

neighbor in Houston.

21:52

When a hurricane came through, my

21:54

neighbor Scott, Redneck Scott,

21:57

this guy is the best, okay? He's always

21:59

prepared.

21:59

So I'm never prepared because I know he's prepared.

22:03

He's always

22:04

like, yeah, I got generators. Hell yeah,

22:06

I got generators. Yeah,

22:08

Muhammad, I got you, baby. When

22:13

I came through, he hooked me up, bro. I

22:15

plugged into the side of his house and took that

22:18

extension cord all the way across that cul-de-sac

22:20

and plugged my. And that's

22:23

what it's about, bro. They're trying to separate us. But

22:25

the fact is, Muhammad's in Texas,

22:28

get along with Redneck Scots

22:29

all day. We

22:32

talk about kind of the division in this country

22:35

and trying to amplify empathy

22:37

and kindness. And that's

22:39

one of my other favorite things about

22:41

you is that you are constantly trying

22:44

to promote

22:46

empathy. Yeah, absolutely.

22:48

No, I think it's really important. It's just it's

22:51

natural. And that part, by the way, in the special, is

22:53

spontaneous. I had it in my

22:55

head.

22:56

I didn't know what I was going to do or say in which

22:58

direction it was going to go. I had some

23:00

idea, and then I changed it in the middle of the

23:02

performance.

23:04

And it was honest, and that's the way it is. And

23:06

I loved it. And they sent me Scott

23:08

and his wife sent me a picture of them

23:10

together, and they watched the special. It was really

23:13

cute. It was so cute. And

23:15

we're still in touch, and they're always going to be

23:17

in my life. And people need to know, like,

23:19

Muhammad could be next door to Redneck Scott

23:22

and have a phenomenal relationship

23:24

and maybe have more things in common

23:26

than you think.

23:27

Hopefully, some of this stuff that some

23:30

of this art that you could put out that can influence

23:32

culture in a way and also just make

23:35

you laugh and make you think in the best way possible.

23:37

That's what it's

23:38

about to me.

23:43

Last question, Beau, is anything

23:45

else that you want to say that I haven't asked you? And

23:48

also, like, what do you need from us as

23:50

the

23:51

Arabs in diaspora, your Arab community,

23:54

your fans? You

23:56

know, it's like support. It's like share it

23:58

with everybody. Tell everybody.

23:59

everybody, like, you know, this is all

24:02

the work. This is all for you. This is literally

24:04

all for you, and not only for you, but for your kids,

24:06

kids, kids, kids. You know, like, this

24:09

is meant to open up doors

24:11

for all of them and

24:14

create some kind of stories

24:16

for them that they can relate to and be

24:18

a part of, and that's what I want, so you

24:20

gotta support that. You have to support that in a

24:22

really big way, and you gotta push it, because

24:25

if I don't have that, then what's the point?

24:30

I want to support that

24:32

in a really big way.

24:34

Mo did not have to take time

24:37

out of his very busy schedule right

24:39

before the show aired, and so

24:41

I know that his press schedule was packed.

24:44

He did not have to take time to drive to

24:46

a studio in Houston and talk

24:48

to our relatively small

24:51

show. He talks about supporting Arab

24:53

Americans and the diaspora,

24:55

and this was just another example of how

24:57

he does that in very practical terms, and

25:00

I'd love if we can all show him support by

25:02

watching the show, Mo, and

25:05

catch Mo anytime he's in your city, support

25:08

him, post about him. He's

25:10

one of the good ones.

25:14

This episode was produced by Finbar Anderson

25:17

and Alex Atak, with amazing

25:19

additional support from Ahmad

25:21

Ashwood.

25:22

It was edited by Alex

25:24

Atak and Ahmad Ashwood with research

25:26

and fact-checking by Dina Sabri. Sound

25:28

design and mixing was by Munzil Hashim. A

25:32

very special thanks to Mejd Banirodi for

25:34

connecting us to Mo Ahmed, and Quincy

25:36

at Sacred Zone Media in Houston for his help

25:38

recording this interview. No

25:40

thanks goes to me for my poor recording skills.

25:44

And one last thing, this season of El Empire,

25:46

we're releasing the full uncut video

25:48

interviews with our amazing guests, including

25:51

Mo. All you need to do is

25:52

head to YouTube and search El Empire,

25:55

or follow us on our socials, at kerningcultures.

25:59

We'll be back next week. Take care.