0:00

But the time that you passed out and barfed

0:03

after going to church, do you think that was

0:05

Do you think that was like divine intervention for you?

0:08

The ironic thing would be if that was the voice of

0:10

God. Yes, I mean to me,

0:12

it sounds like it is here

0:30

today on Kesha and the Creepies. We welcome

0:33

sat Vincent. Thank you for

0:35

being on Kesha and the Creepies

0:37

My pleasure. Are you a believer

0:40

in the supernatural. I haven't had

0:42

any like really specific experiences

0:45

personally with the supernatural,

0:47

but I wouldn't necessarily

0:50

want to go in a haunted house.

0:53

I guess I have enough belief in it to be scared

0:56

of certain situations. But

0:59

I think there is like especially with

1:01

people who you have a really strong connection

1:03

to, Like, you know, there's a friend of mine who I

1:06

always know when she's like down,

1:09

yeah, like a twin flamer,

1:12

just a really really close friend. I don't know if that's

1:14

intuition or psychic or just

1:17

human beings really knowing each other,

1:19

but I feel like everyone has that ability to

1:22

to have that closeness and that intimacy

1:24

and maybe even that psychic connection.

1:29

I've tried to believe in God

1:31

a lot of times, and it just doesn't resonate

1:35

with me. It just doesn't, um,

1:37

and not for lack of trying. So

1:40

I wouldn't so but maybe that's just the way

1:42

that like popular culture would conceive of

1:44

a god figure. So I don't. I can't,

1:47

I can't think of I don't necessarily think

1:49

of a you know, oh, if I

1:51

make a Christmas list, I'll you know, I'll

1:53

ask Jesus for what I want, or like the idea that

1:56

you can have a personal relationship. I don't. That

1:58

doesn't really resonate with me. So um.

2:02

But there's so many things we don't I mean,

2:04

crazy physics stuff. There's all kinds

2:06

of things that we don't know and don't understand.

2:09

So I don't necessarily want to say like I

2:11

don't believe it. It's just how I how

2:14

I would couch it, or how I would conceive of it

2:16

frame it. Well.

2:18

I definitely am like in this very

2:21

open, I'm just open to it all.

2:23

Yeah, and in

2:25

that I've had some really weird

2:28

thoughts. So let's see if I'm psychic. This will

2:30

be the test because I'm telling you now, but

2:32

I have a feeling they're

2:35

gonna tell us about like the

2:38

people are going to be open about aliens

2:41

very soon. Yeah,

2:43

and I also have a premonition that the Bachelorette

2:46

Tasia is pregnant. But you probably

2:48

don't know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I know I've

2:50

seen this season, but I'm gonna I'm going

2:53

to check in on that. I just wanted

2:55

on record that I said these

2:57

things before they happened or

3:00

where I'm just fucking batic crazy.

3:02

If I think you're onto something, I

3:06

hope they tell us about the aliens soon. I don't know if you're

3:08

like an alien galp. It

3:10

does seem to me like, well, we

3:12

are life, we are intelligent, because

3:14

sometimes sometimes I like caveat

3:16

but like we've gone to other planets. Why would

3:18

it be so inconceivable that

3:21

there wouldn't be life on other planets

3:23

and people coming to like not

3:25

people, but beings of some sort coming

3:28

to visit. I

3:31

think I saw a spaceship

3:33

like, well, not just one, I think I saw many

3:36

one night, like totally sober,

3:38

no mushrooms involved here, and

3:42

it was like different formations

3:45

when away came back, this

3:47

whole thing so, and

3:49

then I was talking to Demilovado

3:53

randomly. Also had a really

3:55

weird like a

3:57

really intimate experience, and

4:00

like has learned how to summon the aliens,

4:03

and so now I'm on this quest to some

4:07

of them.

4:09

So if you're interested in going out to Joshua

4:12

Tree and trying to summoning aliens, but you have to

4:14

be open hearted about it. Apparently I've

4:16

got the chocolates, dude, So listen, let's

4:19

go. Oh you need something

4:21

to look forward to the new year. I was

4:23

actually thinking back how we met,

4:26

and we

4:29

met at Taylor Swift's house

4:32

at the fourth of July. The

4:34

thing that I actually most

4:37

wanted to ask you from that weekend is

4:39

did you get pranked and

4:41

think you were going to die at some point? Oh?

4:44

My god, No I did

4:46

not, but I heard that you did in a

4:48

really intense way. Yes,

4:51

Like I like read

4:54

about serial killers. I don't know, it's a thing

4:56

I do. I'm not gonna say I'm a fan of them

4:59

because they're work I don't like, but I'm a fan

5:01

of reading about them.

5:04

But so in my mind, thinking like

5:06

a serial killer, I

5:08

was thinking, they're all these beautiful,

5:11

famous, talented people

5:14

at Taylor Swift's house and there's like the

5:17

first floor was like

5:19

supermodels, and the second

5:21

floor was actresses,

5:24

and then I was on the third floor

5:26

with high Am and I'm

5:29

not sure which where you

5:31

were at, but I was on the top floor. So

5:34

I remember there was like scary

5:37

noises and knocking,

5:40

and we barricaded ourselves in the door

5:43

and we were trying to call Taylor and

5:45

she wouldn't answer, And so in my mind

5:49

a serial killer had come into the house

5:52

murdered everybody, and we were like the last

5:55

the last room. And so

5:57

then I go in the bathroom and I all

6:00

the police, yes, yes, yes,

6:02

it's all reading about amazing and

6:05

so I go in the bathroom and I'm

6:08

like, I'm going to be the one. I'm

6:10

the I'm going to be the one that gets out alive

6:12

and like lives to tell the tale of

6:15

this mass murder. And so I'm on

6:17

the phone with the police and they're like where

6:20

are you? And I was like Taylor

6:22

Swift's house and they're

6:24

like, but like where And

6:27

at that point, she had

6:29

like very generously and amazingly

6:32

flown us on her airplane. Yeah,

6:34

we had no idea where we were. We

6:36

didn't know. It's not like we you know, rented

6:39

a Prius and drove there. No

6:42

so I'm like, I think I'm in

6:45

Maine or Rhode Island. You're

6:48

already a chair with the state. And so

6:51

finally they had to call it off because

6:54

I'm so crazy I'm going to like

6:56

fight mode that I was ready

6:58

to be, like I'm to be the one that scales

7:01

down the side of the building and beats the Syria.

7:04

Oh my god, I

7:06

love that was the most

7:09

logical conclusion, was like,

7:11

it's Manson style down there.

7:13

They've written fuck the pigs and

7:16

blood. Yeah, that's

7:18

the only only possible solution.

7:20

I love that. In

7:22

my mind. I've read so much about

7:24

the Manson murders. I used to just kind

7:26

of be obsessed with reading, Like

7:29

I don't know if you've read Helter Skelter, but

7:31

that big, thick book about the

7:34

Manson murders. I just found it like

7:36

so interesting, and

7:38

cults I find really interesting. And

7:41

then like also, white cults always

7:43

get so murdering. Yeah, it's everything

7:46

ends up being a death cult, Like it's a grift

7:48

and then it's a and then it's

7:50

a death cult. You're

7:54

currently just signed up to direct

7:57

that picture of Dorian Gray,

8:00

which I remember reading

8:02

that book in like it

8:04

was required reading. But I

8:07

remember there was a picture

8:10

and there's a man that doesn't age, but I don't

8:12

remember like the beautiful moral story

8:15

underneath it all. Yeah, beautiful is

8:17

one way to put it. It's it's kind of horror.

8:20

There's a beautiful portrait painted

8:22

of him, and then he starts doing all of

8:24

these terrible things, but he stays

8:26

the same age, So it's like it's

8:28

one part of it would be like how far would you go

8:31

for beauty? Um? And then

8:33

um, the it's kind of a

8:35

real real story about shame too.

8:38

And after he's done all these monstrous

8:40

things, he um looks

8:42

at the portrait and the portrait changes

8:45

and what used to be this like beautiful. Um,

8:48

I'm sure if that man it's

8:50

like just this disgusting,

8:53

horrible monster and he destroys the painting

8:55

about it, but anyway, it's

8:57

uh. I really think it's like

9:00

it's scary. It's a scary scary

9:02

book. It sounds scary.

9:05

It sounds scary, and like the way humanity

9:08

is scary.

9:10

Yeah, yeah, we're pretty scary. I

9:13

think we're like the scariest. I think I like

9:15

to talk about the supernatural on here, but I

9:17

also I kind of think people

9:20

are the scariest. Absolutely.

9:22

It's it's crazy that after all of these

9:24

years and like what we think of a civilization,

9:27

we haven't like managed

9:30

to get rid of murder, we haven't

9:32

managed to get rid of rape. But I mean, it's just like

9:35

people have dark impulses

9:37

within them that have to just be figured

9:41

out. I wondered

9:43

that too, because almost in every

9:45

movie up until recently

9:48

and even still some recently, but it's almost

9:50

more taboo there is there

9:53

will just be like a casual rape

9:56

scene or a casual murder scene. In

9:58

my mind, I'm like, is this an urge that

10:01

a lot of people have, is to murder? I

10:03

think that's why I read up on serial killers.

10:07

I wonder that or if we make entertainment

10:09

like that so that we can

10:11

like explore those dark impulses in

10:14

a safe way and not do horrible, horrible

10:16

things to other people. Totally,

10:19

That's why I watched The Real Housewives.

10:24

I don't wanna have

10:26

drama in my life, but I like it

10:29

existing for like

10:31

thirty minutes a night, and it makes me, it makes

10:34

me feel really like, oh yes, I got the

10:36

drama and petty bullshit,

10:38

but it's not in my life. It's not your life. Thank

10:40

God. The last one of those

10:43

I watched would have been the

10:45

woman Ramona when she walks down

10:47

the catwalk and she has the craziest expression

10:49

on her face from the Real Housewives

10:52

of New York, probably like ten years ago.

10:54

I don't know how long it was ago. See

10:56

I haven't I haven't seen New York. I got just an

10:58

insane moment where this woman, um,

11:01

you know, they do a fashion show for someone's fashion

11:04

line, and one of the

11:06

Real housewife gets up and

11:08

and does the runway walk, and

11:12

I mean it's it's like an alien

11:14

told her how to do a runway walk.

11:16

Her eyes get giant,

11:19

she gets this absolutely psychotic

11:21

look on her face and walks down the runway

11:24

and it's just just like, just do

11:26

a dude, just look it up. It's kind

11:28

of wonderful. I

11:30

am laughing because I do that.

11:34

I have this thing I call flipping

11:36

my eyeballs out when I

11:38

like think I'm making a sexy face and

11:40

it's so embarrassing. Oh my god,

11:43

I know exactly what you're talking about. Like

11:45

when you're on like our red carpet or something, you're like,

11:47

just be cool, and then I like flip

11:49

my eyeballs out and try

11:52

to look cool, and then my mom won't be like, why

11:54

do you have to make that stupid face every

11:57

time. I'm like, I don't know, no, And

11:59

you think like at this point we would have it

12:01

down, like we would go, okay, well this is the

12:03

face I make when I do this, and you're

12:06

like, oh, this is my angle. I still have no idea,

12:08

and I somehow do the same thing where I managed

12:11

to get a little nervous and those

12:13

things, the red carpet stuff is uncomfortable

12:16

anyway, because it's a bunch of people yelling

12:18

at you, and while you're trying to like

12:20

screaming lea screaming at you while

12:22

you're trying to look poised. I always end up

12:24

doing this thing where like one eye,

12:26

like one eyelid is heavier

12:29

than the other, and one eye goes just a little

12:31

cock eye, and I look just dour and

12:33

sour. That

12:36

at least sounds cooler. My thing is

12:38

I jiggle my head like this. For

12:40

years, I would watch an

12:42

interview back and I would be going this,

12:45

and I was like, what in the funk am I doing?

12:48

I'm totally unaware that

12:51

I'm jiggling my head back and forth. But I always

12:53

just you seemed like very in control and

12:55

like you knew what you were doing with

12:57

your art and your imagery,

13:00

and like I was just

13:02

even talking to my boyfriend

13:04

about it, and we're both big fans of me, like listen

13:06

to your music all the time, but it

13:08

just seems very intentional

13:11

and on your terms. You were so young

13:13

when you got into the

13:16

biz. I mean you've been writing songs

13:18

and doing this since you were like fourteen

13:21

fifteen am I right, Like, yeah,

13:24

my mom's a songwriter, and so I've

13:26

been writing songs to deal with

13:28

my anxiety and just I just

13:30

always felt like an outsider. So my way

13:32

to handle that was to try to like make

13:35

things funny out of pain,

13:38

so or like make a pretty song

13:40

out of pain, or make like a funny song out

13:42

of pain. That was my way of coping.

13:45

And then after my first

13:48

record came out, it was like all of a

13:50

sudden, my

13:52

ass was hanging out and I never even had the

13:54

time to stop and think like do I want

13:57

this to be like? And

13:59

then had like media

14:02

training, and I

14:04

just remember there were like these rules and I was

14:06

like, Okay, that's just like what it

14:09

is. It's so bizarre. What were the rules

14:11

because I never got media training and I always kind

14:13

of wish I had. But

14:16

but okay, So I mean you

14:18

had like a super massive

14:20

album and all of a sudden, what people don't know

14:22

from the outside, the machine starts

14:25

going and you're just kind

14:27

of trying to hold on for dear life.

14:29

And so you're young. Um,

14:32

you seem like, to me, like an incredibly empowered

14:35

and you know who you are person

14:37

Like. My favorite memory of the

14:40

Taylor party was

14:43

Ed Sheeran was, you know, doing

14:45

his thing. Was very lovely,

14:47

polite music, and then

14:50

you got up and you did this fucking like

14:53

the Germs meets iggy

14:55

pop meets like you turned

14:57

into half a spider into this

14:59

like fucking rad punk rock thing, and I

15:01

was just like, yes, yes,

15:04

thank God, Yes, that

15:06

that's what I want to see. I

15:08

cleared the room out. I was

15:10

there. I was fucking there for it. I was

15:13

so excited to see insanity,

15:16

you know, next to a very lovely

15:18

Ed Sheeran song. You know, it was

15:20

it was like this beautiful private

15:22

concert of like the

15:25

most famous people in the world.

15:28

And then I'm gonna be honest, I

15:30

had a couple of drinks in me, and

15:34

it's just I was like,

15:36

I'm I'm just gonna start yelling

15:38

about having crabs crabs

15:41

you it wasn't a spider thing. It was a crabs thing,

15:43

and you did a kind of a crab walk. It

15:45

was awesome. I'm so happy

15:47

somebody remembers this. I loved it.

15:49

It was my probably my favorite part of the entire

15:52

weekend. And that's what I was. That's when

15:54

I was like, oh man, Cash

15:56

is so fucking cool. Like I like

15:58

this girl. She's sucking down own and

16:00

like the band just kind of like trying to hold

16:02

on for dear life. It was so cool.

16:05

It turned into like it quickly

16:07

devolved into a complete Shi show after

16:10

that, you kicked over the drums. I

16:13

did, I probably did.

16:16

It was a punk show. You turned it into a punk

16:18

show and it was so freaking cool. That was

16:20

like one of my finer performances. I'm happy

16:23

there was one person was still watching. And

16:25

then you introduced me actually to Toby,

16:29

who put me in a ghost

16:31

story ended up being a

16:33

spirit girl, and I love him

16:36

and did you how did you meet him? So?

16:38

Toby is one of my oldest friends, a

16:41

good fucking Texas boy. He

16:44

uh, we played together in the Polyphonic Spree

16:47

back in that was a band that was like

16:49

twenty people in robes on stage, and

16:52

well that's very culty. Yeah,

16:55

yeah, I was never it was never clear

16:57

to me like if it was really

17:00

just really or anything.

17:02

I was just like, cool, I love these songs. I'm here

17:04

to play guitar and have fun. It might have been a

17:06

cult of personality in the sense that you

17:08

know, the the leader was very charismatic

17:11

and had a bunch of friends traveling

17:14

the world with them, like in that way

17:16

we'll see from an outsider, I was like, cool,

17:18

there's a whole cult on stage.

17:21

It just reminded me of going to church when I was

17:23

little, Oh did you grow up in the church?

17:27

Not like one specific

17:30

when I went to Catholic school and then a bunch

17:32

of different kinds of churches, because I kept trying

17:34

to find God in like everything

17:36

you know, and there

17:40

would always be like conditional parts

17:42

that I couldn't understand, and like what you

17:45

were saying, there are just things that we have not figured

17:47

out, Like we're all the

17:49

same, why do we have to like

17:53

break off into different sections and fight

17:55

each other? Like all

17:58

that kind of stuff. For you can't be like,

18:01

I'm from the South, so I was just there

18:04

were just things that never sat right with me. So

18:06

I was in the church, but I was like

18:09

so conflicted and would just cry

18:12

and be like please somebody

18:15

or so whatever God or whatever it

18:17

is, I don't get it.

18:19

Like I am not convinced

18:22

that like dinosaurs

18:24

didn't exist and that

18:27

if someone loves somebody else and

18:30

they both happened to have a

18:33

penis or of vagina, that they're evil.

18:36

Like since I was a little kid, I remember

18:38

just being like, no, it

18:40

would just be somebody on stage yelling. And

18:43

it's crazy what someone on

18:45

stage yelling I can

18:47

do to a person. You think, like, if they're

18:49

just yelling about it, it it must be true.

18:51

Yeah. And then there's like buildings

18:53

dedicated to it and a whole I mean the

18:56

organization around it. You're like, well, God, there must

18:58

be something to this if this many people bill

19:00

are into it. Were

19:02

you in the church growing up? I

19:05

remember kind of the same thing, like trying

19:07

to like find meaning. And my

19:09

family um was either not religious.

19:12

My dad was a like defunct

19:15

Catholic um and

19:18

my mom just kind of went to Unitarian

19:20

church, which is really sweet Oh

19:22

that that's like as hippie, nice

19:25

friendly, come as you are. It's

19:27

it's really sweet. I actually am glad that I

19:30

like, UM, was introduced to a lot

19:32

of kinds of philosophy and theology

19:35

that way that was not dogmatic

19:37

in any way, shape or form. They had basically

19:39

no rules, um, which was nice.

19:43

But I did go for a brief time to a Methodist

19:45

church where everybody

19:48

was very judgy and

19:51

mean, and um,

19:54

I remember I got confirmed.

19:56

So I took the confirmation

19:59

test. I cheat did on it because I didn't

20:01

know jack shit about the Bible. I passed,

20:03

Thank you, Marcia Hamm. And I

20:05

know you have to take a test to be in a

20:08

religion. It was like a coming of age thing. You're

20:10

like maybe eleven or twelve,

20:12

and so anyway, it's like the ceremony where

20:15

you go in and get confirmed and they

20:17

you know, the classes up there and gets to

20:19

stand on the stage and they make a speech whatever,

20:22

and you're like, I went

20:24

down with everybody, we like knelt

20:28

at the front of the altar. And

20:30

then this is reminding me of some

20:32

of the subject matter of your show, the supernatural

20:35

stuff. Um, where I

20:37

sat down, I knelt and

20:39

all of a sudden, I got so dizzy and

20:42

this like voice inside of me was like, this

20:44

is not for you, and I

20:47

uh passed out. My

20:50

parents took me home. I threw up

20:52

and I never went back. Your body revolted,

20:55

My body completely revolted. It said,

20:57

absolutely not. Do you think that was

21:00

Do you think that was like divine intervention for you?

21:03

The ironic thing would be if that was the voice of

21:05

God. Yes, I mean to me,

21:07

it sounds like it is. So

21:10

that's not that's not your path. I am

21:12

personally just kind of

21:14

open. It's one of the reasons I

21:16

wanted to talk to interesting people

21:19

that are cool and interesting.

21:21

It's because I

21:24

find that I make art sometimes

21:27

because I want to have like

21:29

a legacy or impending

21:32

death is always on the horizon. It's

21:34

just kind of like all

21:36

caught up in some sort

21:38

of like spiritual existential crises.

21:42

And I don't know, I guess

21:45

I just like hearing other people's take on why

21:47

you make art. Oh yeah,

21:49

that everything you're saying ring is really true? What

21:52

like, I don't know what else to do me

21:55

neither. I don't know what else. I don't know what

21:57

else am I supposed to do with my life.

21:59

I don't. I I truly have no idea. This

22:02

is the only thing that's like, oh that this

22:04

makes absolute sense to me. Do

22:06

this well, You're so good at it

22:09

that you absolutely should still

22:12

keep just doing that. But for me,

22:15

I almost like hit this wall where I

22:17

was like, for

22:20

me, I was like why am I doing it? And

22:22

then I had to question that, and then

22:24

it took me like in quarantine, what did

22:26

you find? I'm still figuring it out.

22:29

I'm That's what kind of like called

22:31

me to have this podcast. Almost is

22:34

because I started having psychedelic

22:37

slash supernatural kind of experience

22:40

as a result of like psilocybin or anything

22:42

like that or was it sometimes but yeah, sometimes

22:45

sometimes not. Sometimes I would just be meditating

22:48

or have really crazy anxiety with the quarantine

22:51

all of a sudden, like you said, that

22:54

voice spoke to you and you passed

22:56

out. At the Methodist church,

22:58

I had just like a

23:00

couple of weeks in here. I just couldn't stop crying.

23:03

Just the world and just

23:06

everything. It was just like so sad. I was like

23:08

missing my family and

23:11

feeling kind of useless.

23:13

Because when you're an artist, for me,

23:16

I need to live to be inspired

23:19

to write and

23:21

when you can't leave the house, it's a little

23:24

bit harder to have those external

23:26

things. So I think I went internal, but

23:31

I just wasn't that inspired. And

23:33

then all of a sudden, I started getting messages

23:36

kind of from

23:39

I don't know what it is. I really

23:41

think it might be my higher consciousness.

23:44

I don't like the word god, but it could be that.

23:46

It could be the

23:49

universe, whatever you want. It could be fucking aliens.

23:52

I don't know. So I'm just like

23:54

I've talked to an alien

23:56

religious leader, I talked to a wizard.

23:59

I'm just talking to all sorts of people about

24:01

Well, what you're saying about about

24:03

being in quarantine and not being able

24:05

to like live life

24:08

and and not being as inspired as a result.

24:11

That makes so much sense. I

24:13

feel like I was. I've

24:15

been in that position over at various

24:17

points of this quarantine, and

24:20

it's just like, yeah,

24:22

you just have to go subterranean

24:26

because there's nothing like out

24:28

outside. Usually there's like the chaos

24:30

of choice, but we don't have choice

24:33

and so many things right now, and I mean we're

24:35

lucky, like we have a roof of her ahead

24:37

all of that stuff. I just had to start going back

24:40

through my old notes. You

24:42

know, I'm always like taking notes and stuff.

24:44

And you know, I

24:46

walked down the street in New York and there

24:48

was a guy outside of a seven

24:50

eleven singing, um,

24:53

oh what a wonderful morning, Oh

24:55

what a wonderful day. I'm like, that's

24:58

not going to happen. It's

25:00

something like so beautiful and so bizarre,

25:04

just completely accidentally, Like that's not going to

25:06

happen, you know, with just walking

25:10

the tin steps to your kitchen and back to

25:12

the studio or whatever it is. No,

25:15

and so it's hard to kind of find the inspiration

25:17

at least for me. Yeah, no, it's

25:19

harder. It is harder. I agree.

25:22

How has your like experience

25:24

been in this whole thing. It's

25:27

been good. I mean good.

25:30

I mean when it first

25:32

started, I had hella anxiety,

25:34

and then I got into a period of like, oh

25:38

maybe I can do home renovation, and

25:40

then like many many

25:43

bad projects later, like

25:45

bad wallpapering jobs later, I'm like, Okay,

25:48

I should probably just get back to the thing that

25:50

I you know, and better at.

25:52

So it's been peaks and valleys,

25:54

honestly, and it feels like

25:56

some days are really productive,

25:59

and you like we get out of bed with a smile

26:02

on your face and attack the day. And other days

26:04

are just you're

26:06

nothing. You're like a shell, and it's

26:09

hard to motivate to do anything

26:12

A million percent. There's certain

26:14

days where I wake up and I'm like, I'm

26:17

going to talk to you, and then I get

26:19

excited and I put on a fake

26:21

lash and I feel like a person. And

26:25

then there are days that

26:27

I won't get out. I've been wearing this is

26:29

like not necessarily a good thing, but

26:31

I've been wearing men's

26:33

long underwear as pants, and

26:36

it's gotten to the point where like

26:40

it's becoming a problem

26:43

because because I don't

26:45

want to take them off. So then I started

26:48

to go to the grocery store in the long underwear

26:50

pants and

26:52

we're starting to slow

26:54

to get to the point where maybe the long underwear

26:56

pants need to go in

26:59

the track. But they're so comfortable

27:01

though, But

27:05

comfort cash a comfort, I

27:07

mean, dude, yes, But

27:10

I feel like you're a very fabulous

27:12

person. You always look fucking cool. So

27:15

I feel like, and I haven't seen you in

27:17

a picture with with a long

27:20

underwear, but text me a picture, but

27:22

I am like certain

27:24

that you make them look really cool and intentional

27:27

and like, I appreciate.

27:29

I appreciate your faith in me,

27:32

and you're very kind. I

27:34

was watching last night. I had to tell

27:36

you your um short

27:39

the birthday Party. Oh yeah, is

27:42

so it's so funny?

27:45

Oh? Thanks? Is that sick that

27:47

I think it's funny. I

27:49

I intended it as a comedy because I don't

27:51

like horror movies. But I got commissioned

27:54

somehow. I still don't know how they

27:56

asked me, but they did. So. I'm

27:59

sure you're giving

28:01

me money that I don't have to pay back to make

28:03

something. Okay, that's not how it works in the

28:05

music business. Um.

28:08

So I did it. Yeah, and it was so fun. I

28:10

was just trying to make like a dark comedy. It

28:12

was hilarious. Thanks, but yeah,

28:15

it was really fun to make. Everyone listening

28:17

should go watch it on Hulu.

28:19

It's called the XX like Anthology.

28:22

Yeah, horror Anthology. It's

28:24

dark, but it's funny and it's

28:26

like kind of it's like scary,

28:29

but not in like, um,

28:31

not in like a grotesque kind

28:33

of way. Um.

28:36

I'm not a huge fan of like blood

28:38

and guts. I had the weirdest dreams last

28:40

night. I was watching your short

28:43

and then I just was

28:45

like watching a bunch of scary things

28:47

because it's fun to scare

28:50

myself. But then I get really scared

28:52

and have bad dreams. So I had these

28:54

dreams of people just getting like blown up

28:56

into pieces, and I

29:00

I'm not a fan of the violent

29:03

kind of horror. I. Oh, what was I

29:05

going to ask you? Oh, I was going to ask you if you

29:07

have performance dreams where

29:09

like I'm supposed to be on stage in five minutes and

29:11

and I don't have the outfit, the outfit

29:14

hasn't come yet, or like that kind of stuff.

29:16

I have those dreams all the time. But

29:18

that must be like your anxiety. Yeah, yeah,

29:21

that's that's a recurring one of like just

29:23

I'm supposed to be on stage and something

29:27

I don't have something right, I don't know the songs.

29:30

I just I have no like, um,

29:33

no shame anymore. Honestly, that's

29:35

ultimate freedom, no shame,

29:38

ultimate freedom. I think so

29:40

too. I think to be a

29:43

musician you kind of have to, like, at

29:45

least for me, maybe

29:47

it's just a mean thing I have to, like I

29:50

have to just let myself go over the line of

29:52

two stupid. And that's sometimes

29:54

where like the genius lads where like it's

29:57

just too much for sure.

30:00

Yeah, you just have to do you just go

30:02

for it, Like I'm going to jump

30:04

up this building. I'm not sure if I'm gonna land, but

30:07

I'm not sure if I'm gonna like land, not

30:10

in sixty pieces, but I'm

30:12

gonna jump. I feel like that's

30:15

your records. Definitely feel like you

30:17

just go into a whole

30:19

like different planet. I feel like it's

30:22

like time travel when I listen to music.

30:24

Thank you, Bud, it's uh,

30:27

it's do you look back on the

30:29

work that you've done. Very often, I don't like

30:31

once it's done and I've like toward

30:34

it, I don't. I don't like go back and

30:36

listen to stuff. I think probably for the same reason,

30:38

like I'm afraid it won't be good,

30:42

and I just do like,

30:44

oh, I can't deal with it if

30:47

it's um embarrassing, so

30:49

I'll just let it, let it live on

30:51

its own. I definitely

30:53

feel that way. And sometimes when I accidentally

30:56

hear my old music, I won't

30:58

even recognize my voice. WHOA.

31:01

Then I'll see like or I'll hear a

31:04

song I did when I was seventeen

31:06

and be like, oh my god, that's so embarrassing.

31:09

You were just so incredibly brave

31:11

to be so

31:13

young and having

31:16

all those eyes on you. I was like

31:18

thirty something before anybody

31:20

cared. So it's just different,

31:23

you know. No, I just kind of feel

31:25

like, once your first album

31:28

and then you go on the tour cycle and it's like

31:30

tour, make music, put it out,

31:32

tour, and you're on that. It's

31:34

just what you do. It's what you're conditioned to

31:37

do. Then

31:40

all of a sudden, when it came to a pause this year,

31:42

it was the first time I was like, wait, what

31:45

do I like? What would the music be like that? If I

31:48

just made exactly the kind of music I truly

31:50

in my heart like love like I love,

31:53

And I think that's kind of given

31:56

me the like the panic

31:58

attack, because I don't think I'll ever live of up

32:00

to someone like David Byrne.

32:03

Worked with David Byrne, went on tour with him.

32:06

He's like the crazy, craziest

32:09

genius. He's wonderful. I love him so much.

32:12

I mean it seems like I would just I think I would

32:14

be too scared to even like meet

32:17

him. That's just so cool.

32:19

I remained

32:21

scared until even

32:24

after all the touring was over. I mean,

32:27

I don't know how I look back on certain things of

32:29

like, oh my god, I worked

32:32

with David, like that's

32:34

I wish I could relive it. Honestly, I

32:37

wish I could really relive it with less

32:39

um personal turmoil

32:42

and angst and fear, just

32:45

of like the whole process. Yeah,

32:48

and it was so wonderful. It's like there

32:51

are so few, you know, there's not that

32:53

many tours I think I wish I could do again.

32:55

But that's when I really wish I could do again, because

32:58

it was just joyful. What

33:01

do you have tours the you wish you could do again? In

33:03

one conflicting

33:05

things, So in one dimension, everything

33:08

happens for a reason, right, So that's

33:10

like one possibility

33:13

in which case everything led to this

33:15

moment. The good, the bad, the ugly, the really

33:18

fucking embarrassing, all

33:21

of it led to this moment. But

33:24

then I also look back and I'm like, there

33:26

were some really fun moments, especially

33:29

before I

33:31

injured myself. Injured myself really

33:34

bad on stage and what happened. I tore

33:36

my I tore my a c L on stage

33:38

in Dubai, which it was

33:41

not the most fun thing. I'll

33:43

be honest, but I

33:46

didn't know I tore my a c L, so I just

33:48

played. I finished the show. Was the

33:50

adrenaline just so much that you were like, I'm

33:53

chilling, I'm still dancing. Well, yeah,

33:55

but only one leg would work, so every

33:57

time I would like lean on the

34:00

left leg, I would just fall over. So

34:02

all of a sudden, TMZ got

34:04

a video of me falling over and making

34:06

fun of me, and the reviews came in. It's

34:09

like, what a disappointment, And I was like,

34:12

God, damn it, I just finished

34:14

a whole, like ninety minutes show on a leg that

34:16

is not connected. Yeah, layoff

34:19

you that that is a feat. That

34:21

is a feat. No pun intended

34:23

to be able to still perform a

34:26

ninety minute show with

34:28

a bomb mass leg.

34:30

I mean, that's unbelievable.

34:32

You deserve a medal for that ship. I

34:35

at least don't deserve a bad review.

34:37

I wanted to write them a personal note, but

34:39

I was like, don't do that, don't get into the pettiness.

34:42

Like, but I don't know, I'm more excited

34:44

about what is going to happen in the future. Yeah,

34:46

for sure, for sure. I mean,

34:51

well, according to the Wizard, the

34:53

Earth is just trying to tell us something like

34:56

we need to have a better relationship and

34:58

like listen to like the mother

35:01

Earth more, which that resonated with me. And

35:04

after talking to this wizard for two hours, I'm

35:06

now considering looking into paganism

35:08

because it all sounds really lovely. Oh yeah,

35:10

for sure. I mean it seems so like

35:13

just deeply connected to the Earth and like

35:16

honoring the cycles and living

35:18

sort of in accordance with that. Is that I

35:20

might be totally from what

35:22

little I've looked into it, that sounds about right.

35:25

But I definitely am like leaning more towards

35:29

the nurturing of the earth and

35:32

just the everything is oneness.

35:34

I don't know. That's like where my psychedelic

35:38

trips this quarantine

35:40

have led me. I feel you. I mean,

35:42

I look forward to a time

35:44

when the human

35:47

conversation is

35:51

more constructive, like more

35:54

like, oh, I'm listening to you, and I'm

35:56

understanding your point of view, and here's

35:59

my point of view. And let's

36:02

allow for the fact that you know, there's

36:05

like a multitude of experiences

36:07

and twenty

36:09

people will see the same event twenty

36:11

different ways, and like just

36:14

everybody projecting onto everything.

36:16

I just I want there to be like a little

36:19

bit more, um,

36:21

just intelligence and empathy

36:24

and how we talk to each other. Chaos

36:28

is a wonderful distraction

36:31

from having to just be,

36:33

which I'm super guilty of, like loving

36:36

a good like getting distracted

36:38

by whatever. Um.

36:42

But I've never been one that enjoys

36:45

making other people feel bad. That's just

36:47

not my drug of choice.

36:51

UM. So I don't understand that. And

36:54

we're also both songwriters,

36:57

and I feel

37:00

like to be a songwriter you must be emotional.

37:03

So to be emotional, like

37:06

you can just tell in your lyrics that like you

37:09

feel. And so if

37:12

you're not like a sociopath and you're feeling

37:15

feelings and empathize for other

37:17

people, that's a really positive

37:19

thing and it's

37:22

good for the world. It's

37:24

so it's I think music

37:26

is like how

37:29

do I put this without it sounding like the cheesiest

37:31

shit ever. It's like

37:36

interpreting what the earth is

37:39

and like the stars and my whole experience

37:41

here is like vibrating

37:45

on, like the energy level and

37:47

vibrating on. That's the kind of music. I mean, completely

37:50

understand what you're saying, but like your guitar

37:53

tones and stuff, like they make me feel

37:56

deeply so satisfied.

37:58

Oh thanks, O

38:00

there, like you have the not

38:04

to but you have the sexiest

38:06

guitar tones. Thank you. Thanks,

38:11

They're so good. I don't know how you find them.

38:15

I don't who knows. One

38:20

of those crazy mysteries

38:22

about guitar

38:25

is kind of like the

38:28

softer you play, the more tone you get

38:31

in certain ways, Like I don't know, I

38:33

know if I haven't sung for a couple of days,

38:36

like I'm not like in my body

38:38

in a certain way. You know, you just like sing

38:41

and it's it's like from your stomach and you're

38:44

like, oh okay, I'm okay now, Yes,

38:47

it's soothing to me. Like

38:51

when I'm eating something I really like, I'll just

38:53

start singing and not even know I'm doing

38:55

it. Oh. Really, Like

38:57

if I'm just really enjoying myself

39:00

and very strange

39:02

different ways, I'll just be I'll

39:04

start humming if I'm really

39:07

happy. That's what a wonderful

39:09

like expression. I

39:13

have a question about the new stuff that you're making,

39:15

Like what is what

39:17

is the stuff that you're like, Ah, this

39:19

is my fucking vibration. I want to

39:22

run and do this. I'm so excited

39:24

to know what that is. Because I like, I feel like I

39:26

got a taste of

39:30

that like punk spirit.

39:32

It's almost this amalgamation

39:35

of all the kinds of music I like, which would be like

39:38

punk rock and country

39:42

because I'm from the South. And

39:46

then just like I love the Beach Boys and I

39:48

just love like super pop songs, and

39:52

so it's just and I love David

39:54

Byrnon's Talking Heads and also

39:56

David Bowie and Prince and

39:59

I feel like we have some of the similar

40:01

people we look up to, at least from what I read about

40:03

you. Yeah, I mean that's everybody.

40:06

You know what you mentioned country and

40:09

I kind of like a showed country music

40:12

when I was living in Texas and I was like, oh this isn't

40:14

that's this corny or whatever. I've I don't

40:16

know why I was such an idiot, but I

40:19

have gone back and like the songwriting

40:23

in country music. It's

40:26

just everything like it's an air tight

40:28

it's perfect song.

40:32

And you would kill I mean

40:34

all the influences that you're talking about, combining

40:37

them all like you would kill it. I

40:40

just want to try it. I'm scared.

40:42

But if it sucks, then you just

40:44

don't put it out right, Yeah, you don't put it out, and also

40:46

like, it's good that you're scared. It's

40:49

good that you aren't sure what's going to happen.

40:53

I feel like I do weirdly

40:55

well under pressure. I'm not sure if it's just me or

40:57

other people too too, you know, I think some people, But

41:01

do you were better under pressure? No?

41:04

I think the answer is like I can sort of do

41:06

it, but it's not I usually I'm like pretty

41:08

methodical. I guess so boring. Oh

41:10

god, I need Oh no, I that's not boring.

41:12

That's great, I like need chaos.

41:15

That's terribly unhealthy. Oh no,

41:17

it's just like it's just a way. I guess.

41:19

I just like like being scared. I

41:21

think that's like one of the things I've learned

41:24

about myself as all, like watch a terrifying movie

41:27

and be like why did I do that? Have crazy

41:29

dreams, be like, well you did it to

41:31

yourself fit But

41:34

okay, I have like some really like rapid fire

41:36

questions. So if you don't like any of them,

41:38

just you can pass if And when you're a ghost,

41:41

if you become a ghost, how will

41:43

people know it's you? Like, what will be your style

41:45

of hunting? What's your thing you would do I would

41:47

probably move

41:50

people's keys. Oh that's so

41:52

evil. Oh, it's like it's more

41:54

evil than you know, like writing something

41:56

in blood on the wall. Just they think

41:58

they'd put their keys when place and I just I

42:01

hied him next to the zip blocks. That's

42:04

so, that's so dark. These

42:06

dark impulses within the human spirit

42:09

cannot be contained. I think

42:12

I'm gonna pull people's

42:14

socks down in their shoe every time they're

42:16

wearing them. Oh that just Oh

42:19

that's great, Okay, great. Who

42:21

would you haunt? See? This is tricky because

42:23

like I am doing like a malicious

42:26

thing, So I have to haunt somebody who I didn't

42:28

like to hide their keys. I mean, it's not really

42:30

malicious. It's a pretty friendly haunting.

42:33

It's annoying, let's say, annoying,

42:36

bordering on egregious. Um,

42:39

I might haunt my sister. She's always

42:41

losing her keys. That's

42:44

good, watch

42:46

out, sister. Would you prefer to

42:48

be abducted by the aliens that I

42:50

swear to God are coming soon or spend

42:52

a night alone in a truly haunted

42:55

house? I mean, I think it's

42:57

probably wrong to assume that like and

43:00

in life force would have

43:02

a bad intent to humanity,

43:05

like maybe they just like, you

43:07

know, want to give you a massage and

43:09

you know, feed you alien

43:12

food. But I would say the Haunted House

43:14

because I'm you know a lot of people like

43:16

would want to go to the moon or would want to go to Mars,

43:18

Like, I'm fine, I don't

43:20

want to that's

43:23

so weird. You're like my boyfriend he like

43:25

is like, I don't want to go. I

43:28

don't know why I don't want There's there's I think

43:30

you can divide the world into people who like

43:32

I would want to go and people who

43:34

wouldn't, and I'm like, not good, it's

43:37

fine here. So I think that's why

43:39

that's why I would choose the Haunted

43:41

House. That's

43:44

I think. I'm just really impulsive and I would like get

43:46

on a spaceship and then halfway to wherever, I'd

43:48

be like, oh no, where what did I

43:50

do? I think that you're brave and

43:52

cool and that's why you would do it an

43:55

adventurous in a way that I'm not.

43:58

That's not true. You're quite brave and

44:00

adventurous. We adventured to

44:02

Taylor Swift's house together. That was fun.

44:05

That was a fun adventure. Oh

44:08

do you believe in reincarnation. That's

44:11

like a question the answers. I don't

44:13

know. That's always the best answer

44:15

for everything. I mean,

44:17

not no, not no. But I

44:19

don't spend a lot of time thinking like,

44:23

oh, well, that's cool that I didn't do it. Now

44:25

in my next life, I'll get to it, Like I don't. I

44:27

don't know. I believe in reincarnation in the sense

44:29

that like work, work,

44:32

carbon and we'll turn into carbon in

44:34

the life. You know, this sort of chemistry

44:36

aspect of it makes that makes

44:38

perfect sense. Um,

44:41

But I don't speak Yeah, and I believe that it's

44:43

entirely possible

44:46

in a sort of um sole

44:49

form. But I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.

44:52

That's fair. I spend all my time things.

44:54

See this is really cool. Don't

44:57

do what I do. They

45:00

thank you for coming on my podcast. I'm

45:02

super excited to see

45:06

the movie You're in. My best friend Carrie

45:08

Brownsie and I made a movie called The Nowhere In that

45:10

is coming out this year, and it's a meta documentary

45:13

about me. I play

45:15

myself and also you know St.

45:18

Vincent and then I'm a

45:20

little too boring to make a documentary about

45:22

She tells me to spice things up a little

45:24

bit, and that goes horribly wrong,

45:27

and it turns into sort of like a meta horror

45:30

documentary that sounds amazing

45:33

and fun. I can't

45:35

wait to scare myself and watch it. Follow me

45:37

on Instagram. UM, I

45:40

probably put up a picture like once every two

45:42

and a half to three weeks, so you'll really be

45:44

in for a treat. Follow me on Twitter.

45:47

I'm gonna be saying a lot of problematic things,

45:49

so check me out there.

45:51

Um. I'll be starting

45:54

my TikTok page pretty soon with

45:56

some post modern choreography, which

45:59

I hope we'll go viral. Yeah, and

46:01

thank you so much for listening, and thank you

46:03

so much for being on here. I really appreciate

46:05

it. So good to see you. It's great to see you too. I'm

46:07

really glad you asked me to do it, and I appreciate you taking

46:10

the time. Oh my god, same,

46:13

all right, keep on creeping on

46:15

creeps, all right, see

46:18

us m