0:00

KIC

0:04

Bump acknowledges the traditional owners and custodians

0:06

of the land in which we're recording

0:08

this podcast, the Yolikut Wollong clan of

0:10

the Boon Wurrung, who are part of

0:12

the Kulin Nation. We pay

0:14

our respect to their elders past and

0:17

present and extend our respect to Aboriginal

0:19

and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. Welcome

0:23

to the KIC Bump podcast, your

0:25

Fortnite-ly D&M on all things motherhood. Hi

0:28

guys, I'm so excited to

0:30

be chatting to you today.

0:32

We have a very exciting

0:35

weekend ahead

0:48

of us for ourselves. If you're a mum listening or

0:50

a mum to be, or maybe you've got a mum

0:52

in your life, because Mother's Day

0:55

is coming up, which is super special

0:57

and I hope you guys get to

1:00

have some time for yourself if you're

1:02

a mum or a mum to be or with

1:05

your mum. And if you can't see your

1:07

mum for any reason, I'm

1:09

also sending you love because I know

1:11

it can also be a hard day for those who

1:13

don't. So for me, I

1:15

am going to make sure I make time

1:18

for my mum. I'm actually going to the

1:20

theatre with mum. It's a surprise I had

1:22

for her and my gorgeous auntie, which I'm

1:24

super excited about. And then other than that,

1:26

I don't really have any plans. So I'm

1:29

excited to see what Harvey

1:31

and Josh hopefully plan for me,

1:33

but I'll give you an update at a later date

1:35

to see what happens. Harvey's

1:37

also just turned three, which is insane

1:39

to me. I cannot believe he is

1:41

already a three year old and you

1:43

know what? It's true. What they say.

1:46

Terrible twos is not, I

1:48

hate that term anyway, but it is so not the hardest

1:50

part. I feel like the closer he got to three, the

1:53

more kind of stubborn and challenging he has

1:55

gotten. However, the more fun

1:57

I'm also having with him because his conversation.

2:00

Like his vocabulary is just, as you guys know,

2:02

I'm so proud every time I talk to you

2:04

guys, I feel like I have an update of

2:06

what he's saying. It is just growing

2:08

and growing. And I wanted to share one little thing he said

2:11

to me the other day because I literally put it in my

2:13

notes because I thought it was the cutest thing ever. He

2:16

said, oh my goodness, golly,

2:18

goshington. And I melted

2:20

in that moment because he's just got such

2:22

a funny way of expressing himself, which

2:25

is in a good mood, and

2:27

I'm loving it. So three, it's

2:29

challenging, but it's also

2:31

so nice to be able to finally have

2:33

conversations and just for him to tell me

2:35

how he's feeling and everything. There's a lot

2:38

of learning going on, which is why today's

2:40

episode was so helpful to me. And I

2:42

know it's going to be so helpful to

2:44

a lot of you as well. I had

2:47

the incredible Jess Sanders on, who is actually

2:49

the daughter of Janine Sanders, who I've had

2:51

on a couple of times before and we

2:53

recently had on for

2:56

grooming, the grooming episode that we

2:58

did. So this is Jess, her

3:01

daughter. She's a children's author and

3:03

social worker, and she's the author

3:05

of the series, Life Lessons for

3:07

Little Ones, which teaches children about

3:09

important lessons, from listening to your

3:11

body to embracing vulnerability. And

3:14

the fourth and latest book she's done

3:16

is You Can Do Hard Things, a

3:18

little one's guide for not giving up.

3:20

So we spoke today about growth mindsets,

3:22

how parents can be a model for

3:25

growth mindset for children, letting kids experience

3:27

failure, fixing your child's

3:29

emotions or not fixing your child's

3:31

emotions, and how you can kind

3:33

of help your child build confidence

3:35

in themselves and not be afraid

3:37

of that failure. So I really

3:39

enjoyed my chat with Jess and

3:41

I got a lot out of

3:43

it personally. And before

3:45

we get into the chat, I do have

3:47

a very special kick update for you guys.

3:50

We have a code that you can either

3:52

use for yourself or you can share it

3:54

with a mum in your life so

3:56

that you can treat your mum this Mother's Day

3:58

to a free day. month of kick.

4:00

So the code will be in the show notes.

4:02

It's one month for mum. Whether

4:05

you're a new mum or a soon to be mum

4:07

or all you want in life to be is a

4:09

mum. No matter what kind of mum you are, we

4:11

are here to make time for you. So you can

4:14

find that code in our show notes. As

4:16

I said, the link is there as well.

4:19

You just have to sign up to our

4:21

monthly subscription via our website and the code

4:23

will be valid until Wednesday the 15th of

4:26

May. So I hope you guys enjoy that.

4:28

I hope you guys enjoy making time

4:30

for either yourself or the mum in your

4:32

life this Mother's Day and I hope you

4:34

enjoy my episode with Jess. Jess,

4:38

welcome to the Keep Them Putty. Aw,

4:41

thanks for having me. It's awesome to be here. It's

4:44

so lovely to be chatting to you and like

4:46

as soon as you sat down and I could

4:48

see you on the screen, I was like, well,

4:51

it's obvious who your mum is. You're very similar.

4:54

I know. Yeah. I find that as the

4:56

years go on, I look more and more

4:58

like her and I sound more and more

5:00

like her, which is not a

5:02

bad thing at all. She's pretty awesome, as your

5:04

listeners may have heard when she

5:06

was on recently. Oh, I mean, even

5:09

just like being in her presence, I just I

5:11

think I cried too last time she was here.

5:13

Off the mic, I was like opening up about

5:15

some stuff. I'm going there with Harvey at the

5:17

moment and she was just, oh, so sweet. She

5:20

was like, if you want to reach out. I

5:23

think I cried anyway, but she's just

5:25

got that really warm, nurturing

5:28

feel, which I love. So whenever I'm in her

5:30

presence, I'm like, gosh, your girl's lucky to have

5:32

you as a mum. But

5:35

it's funny what you say about like morphing almost into

5:37

your mum as you get older, because I can definitely

5:39

relate to that. And I think I'm

5:41

still very much not

5:45

like not I wouldn't say naughty, but I'm like

5:47

A bit a bit of a rascal. And I

5:49

think growing up I was too. And my dad

5:51

was that way in kind. So like, I think I

5:54

always related more to my dad growing up and

5:56

my mum was always like very well behaved and kind

5:58

of pulled our heads in and stuff. Then very

6:00

very same distance soon get me a

6:02

minute. Always loved they're always got along.

6:04

agree with had pete of relationship but

6:06

I just like didn't really get it

6:08

and then as soon as I became

6:11

an adult and then especially as soon

6:13

as I became a mom I was

6:15

like far are you the best mom

6:17

in the world I want to be

6:19

everything like you and I think I'm

6:21

also talking and looking more and more

6:23

like her as I get older and

6:25

I think so special. Yeah,

6:27

I mean it's it's a beautiful

6:29

thing and it also demonstrates Probably

6:31

will be talking about today that

6:33

like if you moto like you

6:35

know beautiful values and you know

6:37

you emulate a compassion spaces of

6:40

kindly that you. Like yeah,

6:42

kids become more you do. And say

6:44

rather than how you tell them to like,

6:46

they model themselves off. Of you And

6:48

so yes, A beautifully by example to pretty

6:50

confident they were a some beautiful kids I think.

6:53

A hundred percent as it's so funny because

6:55

they literally mood do anything but what is

6:57

how them today. So really the only way

6:59

to get answers or anything said so true.

7:01

Now you might be ah to say on

7:03

the camera I've got your boat here in

7:05

front of me and I got a bit

7:07

of a funny story as I am obviously

7:09

have flicked through it before but I always

7:12

liked to have something fresh my mind before

7:14

going into these kind of bodies I went

7:16

to rate it this morning. This is my

7:18

my coffee while I'm hobby with having his

7:20

porridge and he sorry my hands and cracked

7:22

it and with like that's. Mind and M

7:24

C P didn't play very well last night

7:26

so he was on the wrong side of

7:28

bed and any just went to grab it

7:30

off me as a call the i really

7:32

would read book like do you mind if

7:34

i boil it can i can was yeah

7:36

and he was just absolutely were see using

7:38

said put about my bookshelves like stairs in

7:40

a he was in a mood the sorting

7:42

so I'm in the mail like but i

7:45

i really actually really like gonna need to

7:47

him once it's rate at heart he plays

7:49

and i tried to getting all excited lot

7:51

on his like the all time as new

7:53

wrote. this book i'm going to church had any

7:55

just didn't care he was like that's my boom know

7:57

the back of my bookshelf said in a small he

7:59

was watching trolls and distracted I snuck back up

8:01

to his room and like I had to put it

8:04

under my shirt downstairs

8:06

because if he'd seen that before we left

8:09

he would have cracked it even more. Wow

8:11

yeah wow yeah it's not really there's a

8:13

move. I do not envy him. I'm

8:16

not a parent but I've been

8:18

following along with your Harvey updates and

8:20

I'm like you are in

8:23

it like I think in in

8:25

the sounds like the worst of it

8:27

everyone talks about like those terrible twos

8:29

and they're just like defiance is just

8:31

the baseline and that is

8:33

so challenging so you're doing amazing.

8:35

Yeah thanks well hard off

8:37

to you. Yeah thanks and it's funny because

8:40

like terrible twos like the closer they get

8:42

to three I feel like the harder it's

8:44

getting but I will say what we're chatting

8:46

about today and as you said like leading

8:48

by example is certainly something that has helped

8:51

us through some of those tough times rather

8:53

than trying to go the old school way

8:55

I suppose of parenting

8:57

and like telling them what to do and trying to

8:59

be disciplined and all that sort of stuff like that

9:01

has absolutely not worked at all in

9:05

my household anyway. So I'm really excited

9:07

to talk to you though today specifically

9:09

around growth mindset and I love this

9:11

topic because I was really fortunate in

9:13

in my household growing up like my

9:15

parents really encouraged my brother and I

9:17

to get into different sports or different

9:19

arts whatever we kind of were interested

9:21

in wanted to do obviously if

9:24

it was within means they were really

9:26

supportive of us giving things a crack and even if

9:28

it meant I did a term of ballet whilst it

9:31

was probably very annoying going through the

9:33

enrolment of that sort of thing and

9:35

then redirecting they were very like open

9:37

to us trying things and just having

9:39

a really like I

9:41

suppose growth mindset of like where we could

9:44

go in life and even later in

9:46

life when I wanted to become a model like

9:48

that's not every parent's dream to hear that from

9:50

their kids in fact it's a lot of people's

9:52

like what's the last thing they want to hear

9:54

just because of fear of the industry and what

9:56

could happen and all that sort of stuff but

9:58

for my parents I think They'd always

10:02

seen that interest in me and it was kind

10:04

of a no-brainer. And so, I mean, I had

10:06

a few suggestions, you know, for things on the

10:08

side, but other than that they were okay with

10:10

me giving it a go. And I think it's

10:12

because I did grow up in that, I

10:15

suppose, environment of like trying things, not

10:18

being afraid to fail,

10:20

thinking big and like dreaming

10:22

big. Like I was like,

10:24

no, I'm going to be a model. It's

10:26

going to be the famous model and it's going

10:28

to work out for me. And then even

10:30

though everyone told me it wasn't and that I needed to

10:32

do doing something else, I was like, but this is what

10:34

I really wanted to do. And

10:36

so I did it. And so that's kind of what I

10:38

want to talk to you about today because I would love

10:41

to kind of emulate the same sort of thing, that

10:43

sort of thing for Harvey as well. But

10:46

I suppose let's start with just

10:48

the definition of growth mindset. How

10:51

do you personally define it? Yeah.

10:53

So growth mindset is actually like terminology that

10:55

was coined by Dr. Carol Dweck. So she's

10:57

a professor of psychology at Stanford Uni and

11:00

this is kind of her theory. And she

11:02

has the term growth mindset, but on

11:04

the other side of that spectrum is a fixed

11:06

mindset. So she would say

11:08

a fixed mindset is, you know, being

11:10

like, I can't, for example,

11:13

I'm bad at math. And that is the belief

11:15

I'm bad at math. And because you believe you're bad at

11:17

math, you never try to get better at math.

11:20

And consequently you say bad at math.

11:23

But if you had a growth mindset, you'd be like, okay,

11:26

I can't do my timetable yet,

11:29

but with practice and perseverance, I will be able

11:31

to. And you can see how like that

11:33

would be so important for kids because it either

11:35

instantly closes a door or opens one. And

11:37

so what you were talking about and like

11:40

finding your path and following your interest in

11:42

your nose to kind of reach your full

11:44

potential, become your true self. If

11:46

you have that fixed mindset and if you have, you

11:48

know, your internal narrative is I can't do things, I'm

11:50

not good at stuff. You consequently sort

11:53

of stay fixed and where you are. And

11:55

I do think like, like most things, Mine

11:58

sense are binary. Go on that spectrum

12:01

up and down little bit depending on what's

12:03

going on and maybe in different areas of

12:05

i lost but I think is a general

12:07

rule. It's a great way to think about

12:09

yeah mindset and will and what's possible particularly

12:12

a really important internet turn our kids. so

12:14

what about like what a H d Stop

12:16

encouraging this because I think like I'm I'm

12:18

always been really act is an adventure as

12:20

I think more so as a kid as

12:23

soon as I became an adult as dancer

12:25

and assists risks and I'm get a little

12:27

bit nervous about things and I'd hardly understand

12:29

why. mom. Was in the back of the boat instead of next

12:31

man and a board growing. Up I

12:34

speak. As I get it now

12:36

but I just I would love Harvey

12:38

to be adventurous and wanna try things

12:40

but also understands risks. What age do

12:42

you start encouraging that kind of growth

12:44

mindset where yeah give it a god

12:46

given got some I'm imagining like him.

12:48

maybe when it was even a little

12:50

bit younger. Some other things he wanted

12:52

to do on the playground and I

12:54

was like wow I don't know about

12:56

this one body like dresses. maybe someday

12:58

maybe can't do that. Yeah wind is

13:00

a sudden and kind of like how

13:03

to navigate bad as they're. In their

13:05

young and yeah that's a good question because

13:07

I think it's like we as the adults

13:09

understand the risk of opponents of what's gonna

13:11

happen and like the needs to be enough

13:13

room for them before down sometimes to make

13:15

mistakes and to learn those boundaries. But then

13:17

I saw a pitcher my friend in that

13:19

I trust up their kid from going down

13:22

the slide on their bikes and so like

13:24

that example of i think we know how

13:26

that's. Gonna ends Yes not only view it's

13:28

and so we do have does I know

13:30

you know going to try that thing. I

13:32

actually know how that's gonna end. Up and

13:34

then as things. About. Redirecting and

13:37

providing choice. And and another avenue being

13:39

apart we go down the slide together.

13:41

I could do this and then we

13:43

could go roger back over here. but

13:45

like obviously we thought to protect them

13:47

and keep them are basically physical you

13:49

say? But I think like in terms

13:51

of what age to start it's really

13:53

as soon as they're receiving feedback. Soon be

13:55

crawling around trying to walk. For example on it's

13:57

like he really he. would have naturally done this

13:59

with Harvey and most parents would actually be

14:01

saying, yeah, it's an amazing, you've got up,

14:04

you've done it, you're nearly there. And

14:06

you'll be praising the process often

14:09

rather than the outcome. It takes a long

14:11

time for them to learn to walk, but

14:14

you're encouraging them in that process along the way

14:16

and that learning process. So it

14:18

can start kind of, yeah, as early as they can receive

14:20

that feedback, but obviously everything needs to be age

14:23

appropriate and expectations realistic on their

14:25

developmental stage. Yeah, for sure.

14:28

I mean, and it's like, even with, you know,

14:30

not the playground, let's call it like a building

14:32

block situation in the playroom. Harvey,

14:34

you know, can get really

14:36

upset if he's building a tower and he's trying to

14:39

get it taller and taller and then there's always a

14:41

height that he just can't, he

14:43

can't get past and it'll crash every

14:45

time and he's just disappointed. And

14:47

sometimes he puts on a bit of a cry

14:49

and, you know, it takes some encouragement for him

14:51

to try it again and everything. Why is it

14:53

important that they do kind of

14:56

see these barriers or these like almost

14:58

failures in a way? Why

15:00

is it important that they experience that along the way as

15:02

well, other than, you know, encouraging them to give things a

15:04

crack and then them seeing that they can actually do it?

15:07

Like, again, I'll go back to the playground. He's,

15:09

there's this little obstacle course on the playground near

15:11

our house and he's done it before. And

15:13

the other day he went to do it

15:15

and his foot slipped a little bit and

15:17

he was like, can't do it. Can't do

15:19

it. I was like, buddy, you did

15:22

it last week. Give it another go. You can try

15:24

it. And then he did it and based like of

15:26

how proud he was. This is the best thing in

15:28

the entire world. But what about failing? What about the

15:30

days where they genuinely just can't do it? Maybe they

15:33

haven't done it before or it's not possible or they

15:35

have done it before, but today is just not their

15:37

day. Like, why is that important? I

15:39

think like, you know, failure is a

15:42

part of life. Being disappointed is

15:44

a big part of life, you know,

15:46

and I think how we teach them

15:48

to hold space for that disappointment or

15:51

that sadness or frustration and move through

15:53

it and then continue to persevere is

15:55

then how they will relate to failure

15:57

as adults and like,

15:59

perfect. Actionism is just like the fear of failure

16:02

and feeling that like if you fail, you will

16:04

not be able to survive. And so

16:06

it can keep you so restricted. So we want to actually

16:08

teach them that you can fail. I'm

16:10

still here. I still love you. You're safe.

16:12

You can come through the other side and

16:14

then you can, as you reminded him, like

16:16

you can do it. These are

16:18

times where you've done hard things, where you've overcome that

16:20

barrier and you've achieved it. But

16:23

an important step not to be missed

16:25

when that disappointment is there or

16:27

that sadness is to just hold a bit of

16:29

space and sit with that feeling.

16:31

I think a lot of us were

16:33

not taught to sit with discomfort, to

16:35

sit with harder feelings. And

16:38

it needs to have its time. And generally it won't last

16:40

very long. Like with kids, you know, I talk about emotions

16:42

being like the weather, a big emotion

16:44

comes, it's, whoa, we're feeling it.

16:46

It's very outward, particularly amongst toddlers.

16:49

And then it passes through. And then we're on to the next

16:51

block or activity. But if they're in the

16:54

midst of that emotion and we're like, come on, come

16:56

on, get over, you know, get up, it's

16:58

not going to go well. And

17:01

we're also not teaching them to feel

17:03

through or teaching them to avoid feelings,

17:05

which can be kind of the

17:07

opposite of resilience. Resilience comes from feeling your

17:10

feelings and feeling through them and moving on.

17:13

So, yeah, does that answer the

17:15

question? Absolutely. It's so interesting because

17:17

I also, I have to catch

17:19

myself at times where,

17:22

you know, maybe he is overreacting,

17:24

well, in my mind, obviously, as a sane

17:27

adult, like overreacting to something that's happened. And

17:30

whether I'm like, for some reason, in a bit

17:32

of a rush for something or whatever, my mind

17:34

somewhere else and not super present with him, I'll

17:37

like instinctively just want to go, it's all right.

17:40

It's okay. Don't worry about it. Like,

17:42

and try and move him on. And you're right. When I

17:44

do that, it's like he looks at me like, are you

17:46

kidding me? Like the world

17:48

is ending. Like what do you mean? It's all

17:50

right. And I've noticed

17:52

a huge difference when you just shift

17:55

your body language or even like what you verbally

17:57

say, if you're not just going to sit there

17:59

and kind of. let them cry, I've noticed

18:01

saying things like, oh, that's so frustrating

18:03

when the tower just keeps falling or

18:06

just speaking through that. As

18:08

soon as you relate, his

18:10

eyes just instantly connect to mine and he's

18:12

like, right, okay, cool, so we can try

18:15

and do something. It's really

18:17

interesting because I think it

18:19

must be just a generational shift as well.

18:22

I mean, I'm lucky. I think I had a bit of both. I

18:25

think I had a bit of that. Well, come

18:27

on, let's move on, only because that's what

18:29

parenting was for our generation, I

18:31

think, for a lot of us. But I think

18:33

I also did have that empathy from both my

18:35

parents. They made me feel like, oh, that really

18:37

sucks at the same time. And

18:40

it is just flipping it. It's like putting

18:42

yourself in their position. Sometimes in the moment,

18:44

it's really hard to because it could be

18:46

something as simple as blocks falling

18:49

over. But then I think about it. I'm like,

18:51

okay, if I was walking in the kitchen and

18:53

I dropped my favorite bowl and

18:55

it broke, I'd probably want

18:57

to cry and be really upset about that.

18:59

And I just try and... This

19:01

is how he's feeling. That's how he's feeling right now. And

19:03

if Josh was like, don't worry

19:06

about it. Let's just clean it up, move on.

19:08

I'd be like, excuse me. It's

19:11

quite funny. I

19:13

know because most of the time we don't

19:15

want someone to fix our emotions. We want

19:17

someone to recognize them and see them and

19:20

sit with us in them. And

19:22

that's what kids want too. And it's so frustrating when we

19:24

come back to our partners and we're like, oh, this happened.

19:27

I had the worst day ever. And they're like, oh,

19:29

well, tomorrow will be a better day. Or maybe you

19:31

could do this differently. And you're like, no. Like, listen

19:33

to me. I just want you to say that sucks.

19:37

And kids are exactly the same. And as you say,

19:39

it's perspective. To us, it's blocks. We know you can

19:41

pile the blocks up again. But

19:43

to them, it's a big deal. And

19:46

it must be so hard. I really emphasize the

19:48

parents. I'm not a parent. And that just when

19:50

you're trying to do life and life is so

19:52

busy, to constantly be

19:54

holding space and presence is pretty much impossible,

19:57

I think, to do that consistently. I

20:00

think you'll probably find, as you said,

20:02

that it is more time efficient in the long run

20:04

to do it as well because you move them through

20:06

it and you can get on with the

20:09

day and what needs to be done. It's

20:11

so true. Okay,

20:17

this one is kind of a big one, but it's

20:19

going to round it out for me, I think, because

20:22

this makes me think of those who end up on

20:25

things like Australian Idol who... Look,

20:28

art is a subjective thing of what

20:31

is good and what is not, but

20:33

when it comes to singing, I do

20:36

feel like some people are encouraged that

20:38

they are something that they

20:40

may not be, or

20:42

at least a talent that sure

20:44

you enjoy it, and if you enjoy it, go do

20:46

it. I'm not the best singer, but I love singing,

20:48

and anyone who tells me to stop when I'm around

20:50

them, I'm like, nah, I'm going to keep going, but

20:52

I'm not going to go for Australian Idol. I've

20:55

got enough knowledge to know that I'm

20:58

not there, but when I see that,

21:00

it makes me think of, I suppose,

21:02

the extreme end of growth mindset of

21:05

that saying, you can do anything, you

21:07

can do anything you put your mind

21:09

to, realistically. I love that kind

21:11

of encouragement because really, it is our mind

21:13

that blocks us from so many things that

21:15

we can physically or emotionally get through, absolutely,

21:17

but it's our mind that puts those barriers

21:19

up. I do love it in that sense,

21:21

but how do you balance,

21:23

you can do anything, but

21:25

not anything actually, because that's actually not possible.

21:27

Do you know what I mean?

21:30

Yeah, it's such a good question. Yeah, no, it's

21:32

really important to speak to, and I think with

21:34

all my books, and this one in

21:36

particular, I think it's important to speak

21:39

to the other side of things, to

21:41

not be kind of toxically positive or

21:43

set kids up with unrealistic expectations. For

21:46

kids with disabilities or

21:48

different, on the spectrum, there may be things

21:50

that are not possible for their bodies or

21:53

brains, and to set them up saying, you

21:55

can just do it if you try, is

21:57

kind of really invalidating and unhelpful. And

22:00

as you say, it's like, you're not going to say to a kid that is

22:02

very short from a very short family, you're going to be

22:04

a basketball star if you want to be, if you

22:06

just work hard enough because that's just not real

22:09

life. And so I think it's a

22:11

balance between being like, you know, making sure our biases

22:13

don't get in the way as well. Like for example,

22:16

your modeling example, I was thinking about, you

22:18

know, kids who are in bigger bodies or

22:21

kids with a disability being like, oh, you

22:23

don't look like a stereotypical model so you

22:26

can't pursue modeling. But like, actually that whole

22:28

world has opened up for diverse bodies and

22:30

people and that is possible. So there's that

22:32

fine line between not letting our biases limit

22:34

and particularly in the area of disability, I

22:36

think we do come with this sort of

22:38

limited mindset sometimes for kids and believe that

22:41

they're less capable than they are. So it's

22:43

important to be aware of that whilst at

22:45

the same time holding that there are just

22:47

some things that aren't possible and that's okay

22:49

and actually say that in the book. And

22:51

I think it's important to hold space for

22:53

that because I think our generation in particular

22:55

were very much like the you can be

22:57

anything kids. And

23:00

then you realize that you're not that special

23:02

actually. Do you know what I mean? So

23:05

it's like, you know, you don't want a

23:07

false sense of self either and doing hard

23:09

things and showing yourself that you can do

23:11

them when you try. All those things build

23:14

like a really healthy sense of confidence and

23:16

self. Like an example

23:18

is I have to learn my own

23:20

lessons from my own books. Like that's why I write them.

23:23

I want to ask you about that. It's part

23:25

of my therapy, you know, like and for example,

23:27

I have anything kind of handy to do with

23:30

house maintenance. Like I have avoided and I

23:32

have my dad just do it. I'm not going to even

23:34

try to do it for me. And now I

23:36

live in Tasmania without my dad around and I

23:38

own a home and I'm having to renovate it.

23:40

And like last week I had to and

23:43

like last week I'm like I can't afford to get

23:45

anyone to fix my windowsills that are running. I have

23:47

to do it. And I had about 10 tantrums like

23:49

over a weekend. But

23:52

I did it and I was like so

23:54

incredibly proud of myself and just watching the

23:57

ripple effect of that for my confidence throughout

23:59

the week. my confidence to keep up other

24:01

things I need to do in my house. It

24:03

really just showed me the power of that. And for kids,

24:05

as you say, when Harvey did the thing that he wanted

24:08

to do, like the blocks or whatever it was, how

24:11

good that made him feel and how confident.

24:13

And the one thing, my mum would always

24:15

say this, actually, the one thing we can't

24:17

give our kids is confidence. They have to

24:20

find it for themselves. But

24:22

we can't give them those tools to grow confidence,

24:24

I think. Oh my God, I love that.

24:27

That's such good advice. And I did want to ask

24:30

you a little bit about yourself because I can

24:32

imagine with, I mean, it's a little bit like kick,

24:34

right? With a lot of the messages that we put

24:36

out and encouragement around body

24:38

image and your relationship with food and

24:41

exercise and stuff. Like, it's a constant

24:43

journey. Like we're all human. Neither

24:46

Laura or I have got to that like

24:48

end destination where like we wake up every

24:50

day and are like incredibly happy with who

24:52

we are and so sure of every decision

24:54

we make in life. You know,

24:57

it's a constant journey and a lot

24:59

of the time what we are projecting

25:01

out is also what we

25:03

need to hear for ourselves. And that's okay.

25:06

And I would love you to touch on

25:08

that because I imagine writing, which congratulations, so

25:10

amazing, the children's book author. It's

25:12

actually something I wanted to do when I was little.

25:15

So I love meeting children's book authors. It's

25:19

such an achievement and such a cool thing to

25:21

go through. But I think having things like this,

25:23

especially as you said, like you don't have children

25:25

yourself, but like obviously you're so passionate about making a

25:27

difference. I would just love to know a little bit

25:29

of background as to like why you've written the books

25:31

that you have. Yeah. And I actually

25:33

think I was thinking about this this morning

25:35

that my books are a

25:37

great example of a growth mindset. So I wasn't

25:40

a particularly talented writer. I am terrible at spelling.

25:43

But I felt very passionately with my first

25:45

book. I really wanted, I struggled

25:48

with my body image growing up as well. And

25:50

I'm six foot and I was six foot when I was about

25:53

12. But I've always been the tallest

25:55

in every classroom. I really, really struggled. And

25:58

when I got older and I went to uni and I about

26:00

gender and I kind of tried to unlearn

26:02

all these harmful beliefs that I had about

26:04

bodies and myself and

26:06

I just tried to reshape my relationship with my

26:08

body and I did. And then I was like,

26:11

why did I have to go through all of

26:13

that? Why does every girl and woman I know

26:15

have to go through the same thing? And I've

26:17

had access to therapy to unlearn all this stuff

26:19

and higher education. And I'm like, is there a

26:22

book out there that teaches girls about

26:24

what is normal, that shows them cellulite and stretch

26:26

marks and different bodies? Because I didn't have it

26:28

and I really wish I had. And

26:30

I went to all these bookstores in Melbourne and it

26:32

didn't exist at the time. So

26:35

I was like, okay, maybe I should. I think my best friend

26:37

actually is like, why don't you do it? And I was like,

26:39

well, I've never written a book and I'm not much of a

26:41

writer. And then I was like, you know what, if

26:43

not me who? I'm just going to give it a crack. And

26:47

luckily I have a children's book order for a mother. So

26:49

I was like, how do you do it? And

26:52

I was like, and she

26:54

gave me the best advice as usual. And

26:56

she said, just imagine there's a little girl in front of you, like,

26:58

what would you want to say to them? So

27:01

all my books are written in that affirmational

27:03

way. And it's my voice speaking directly to

27:05

a child. And it really is

27:07

like the greatest honor of my life that I get to

27:10

be in, you know, like

27:12

at story time with parents and their

27:14

kids or in classrooms, sharing like what

27:16

I think is a really important

27:18

and true message that again, yeah, it's healing for

27:20

myself. So for example, like the first book in

27:22

the Life Lessons for Little Ones series is called

27:24

You Are Enough. And that

27:26

is something I struggle with. We all struggle

27:28

with, right? Like that sense of feeling worthy,

27:31

feeling enough. And so I have

27:33

so many adults message me saying, I'm

27:35

crying about this. I'm speaking like I

27:37

needed to hear that. And I thought

27:39

how beautiful to be healing

27:41

at the same time as sharing that message

27:43

with your little ones. Like, and I think

27:45

that even is intrinsically healing. So yeah, that's

27:48

kind of how it came about. And I

27:50

just love that it can be my therapy,

27:53

but also other adult therapy. Well,

27:55

what special bookshelves the children in your

27:57

life, be it your own or your

27:59

sister's? like we'll have with the books

28:01

that you guys have written. They're just

28:03

so incredible and I can totally relate

28:06

to feeling that way when you're

28:08

reading certain things to your children and then it's

28:10

like hitting you like, wow, I

28:12

really needed to read that today. And there's a

28:15

lot of that in your books. We'll make sure

28:17

that there's links to them in the show notes.

28:20

Just thank you so much. I think

28:22

it's awesome what you're doing and like

28:25

to make a change in hopefully how

28:27

people do perceive themselves and what they

28:29

can do in life and everything. It's

28:33

important that it happens in those really informative years

28:35

from a young age. So it's really incredible what

28:37

you're doing and it's been an absolute pleasure talking

28:40

to you today. Thanks so much,

28:42

Steph. Thanks for having me. It's been

28:44

so lovely. Well,

28:47

I hope you guys enjoyed that episode.

28:49

If you would like to get involved

28:51

with the Kickpod or Kickbump Pod, you

28:53

can by going to our Instagram at

28:56

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28:58

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29:00

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29:02

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29:04

to call it our Kickbump Facebook community

29:07

is for you. There is so

29:09

much in there, encouragement of finding

29:12

your journey again after having a

29:14

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29:17

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29:19

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29:23

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29:25

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29:32

be back in your ears very soon. Bye.