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Hello and welcome to killer Queens a true

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I'll grab your capri suns or your search

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0:42

Hey guys. Hey guys, welcome

0:45

back. Wow.

0:46

yeah

0:54

yeah yeah this is a heavy case

0:56

said yeah

0:59

and we just wanna let you know that lead guy at

1:01

a winter mornings there

1:03

is talk of sexual assault

1:05

have a child and murder of a child

1:08

the confessions in this case are very

1:10

graphic but we are not gonna go

1:13

into all the details because we just don't think it's

1:15

needed the way and

1:18

we want to think of madison for writing this ah

1:21

yes and we

1:23

can thank the person you requested this

1:25

case that's me

1:28

rank man and i know i'd rather not yeah

1:31

now that i did it it's at this

1:33

is just a rough i mean i

1:36

really don't know what i was thinking putting

1:39

ourselves through this emotionally but here we are so

1:42

i'm really , i like

1:45

when it rains and you blame it on the

1:47

weatherman yeah be

1:49

which style the only have

1:52

yourself to blame here xactly thanks

1:54

alot times gonna rain all week

1:56

and thinks , calendar

1:59

correctly that's our thing are

2:01

we so thing that oh my gosh i said all the time

2:03

of that you guys want to share that in the face with

2:05

group the didn't like already ensure

2:08

an announcer it again them yeah

2:11

keep it alive yeah because like everything

2:14

is marie calendars fault like it is so

2:16

funny he does have to check

2:18

it out and if you're not going to face the grouping i will defend

2:20

their there and stuff

2:22

going on in there and away

2:26

right around six am on november twenty

2:28

ninth two thousand and one billy wink hub called

2:30

nine one one from his house and rock hill south

2:32

carolina he told to call taker that

2:34

is twelve year old daughter was dead the

2:36

me to cope with lying lifeless on her bed and obvious

2:39

like them of sexual assault in a brutal murder

2:42

her father within a week of the murder had confessed

2:44

to the rape and murder of his daughter not once

2:46

not twice that type

2:49

despite his three details confessions

2:52

to police billy wink hope denied that he was

2:54

involved in his daughter's death another

2:56

man's dna was found on him and his body with

2:58

no physical evidence directly him

3:00

to Amanda's murder, but the state

3:03

of the south did not buy it. they

3:05

that that the Wayne cope had welcomed a

3:07

child murderer and do his home that night and gave him

3:09

his daughter. Seriously.

3:11

I

3:12

know heavy heavy hitting

3:14

it really is and

3:16

we know that probably not everybody

3:19

is listening to us when we totally get it.

3:20

Okay, guys, before we get into

3:22

today's case. We want to let you know that

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What more

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So we can I tell you a a little bit about about we have to up

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this week. i an rpg on so

3:47

tomorrow armor mixtape drops and

3:49

were covering the murder of jason corbett in this

3:51

is the case that has been debated a self

3:54

defense or murder and his wife molly and her

3:56

daughter the perpetrators season listen and

3:58

decided you think they're guilty

4:00

Friday. We drop our first episode of

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the Netflix series worst roommate

4:04

ever. So, this is on. G. We cover,

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episode-by-episode docu-series

4:08

there and this episode

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is about the crimes of Dorothea Puente.

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Worst. Roommate ever Came Out Swinging. the

4:15

she could very well when the award for

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the literal worst a roommate

4:20

ever but this series is

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bananas

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yeah man as yes it's so good a

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course on sunday we drop our weekly catch

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the first and the know about are fun happening it

5:39

was like about amanda coat amanda run

5:41

a top was born on april fourteenth

5:43

ninety eighty nine to mary sue davis

5:46

co the we wind up in rockville

5:48

south carolina she was the oldest

5:50

of three girls the jessica being the middle child

5:52

and pilot being the youngest the

5:54

family of five would in a small house that was just

5:57

under nine hundred square feet the only

5:59

had one bathroom amanda was

6:01

a bright young girl who seem to always

6:03

be and a good mood she attended

6:05

sylvia circle elementary school before

6:07

moving on to sullivan middle school so

6:10

it just drives home late yeah

6:13

we're taking out over elementary school middle school and

6:15

my first thought the

6:17

the seventh grader was described her sisters as

6:20

being intelligent and very loving then

6:23

she had an unmatched passion for

6:25

god and only wanted the best for the people

6:27

around her laugh was infectious

6:30

it always put a smile on everyone's face

6:32

like you know those people that have that like

6:35

infectious laugh it

6:37

makes you i'll just thinking about it there are those people

6:39

like i remember some people and went to school

6:41

where there was like they do have like the

6:43

most unique infectious last we

6:46

are in a makes you laugh as well which

6:48

is why the contacts obviously but it's like i

6:50

don't know what they're saying or what they're doing

6:52

cannot even be funny but that doesn't want to start laughing

6:54

you're like can help my youngest tickled us

6:57

three amanda have to one day

6:59

on a farm with horses and she dreamt of being

7:02

a large animal veterinarian in

7:04

addition to her love for animals she was very

7:06

gifted and music she had a beautiful

7:08

singing voice and she played the violin

7:11

that's a tough to play isn't yeah

7:13

i mean she's

7:16

got a lot of talent than i

7:18

do string into instruments in general are very

7:20

typical or everything so yeah

7:23

one of the music teachers and amanda's middle school

7:25

remembered the twelve year old well quote

7:27

i remember her walking in the class the smile

7:29

so inquisitive a girl who wanted

7:31

to know more with each passing day the

7:34

man i wanted to know more about the world she wanted

7:36

to make a unique impact on the world she

7:38

would have to the

7:40

main his mother mary sue work and overnight shift

7:43

at a nearby factory and her father billy worked

7:45

part time delivering chicken unfortunately

7:48

the money that mary sue and billy earned

7:50

wasn't always enough to even by the bare minimum

7:52

though amanda's and and billy sister

7:55

sue archie is said that at the family didn't

7:57

have anything to eat everyone in the

7:59

family nearby and their mother

8:01

would often by the family dinner

8:03

despite the hardships that amanda and her sisters

8:05

faced teachers and classmates said that

8:07

she was the overall

8:10

just day in day out a positive

8:12

happy little girl

8:14

uh-huh and that's a lot to go through at

8:16

such a young age definitely and

8:19

to be able to keep a smile on your face and

8:21

to also like

8:22

genuinely want the best for other people around

8:25

you and she didn't have like

8:27

the ship on her shoulder or what are you know

8:29

like she just carried herself

8:31

with such a positive that

8:33

attitude much power to do i mean

8:37

geez i have a bad day and i'm just like

8:39

the it

8:42

the can be fair you are kind of a bitch

8:44

all the time that out for years as it doesn't take much

8:46

better now the

8:49

ninety ninety nine atlanta mayor was about ten

8:51

years old and anonymous call was made to the department

8:53

of social services about the living conditions

8:55

in which the coach girls were living the

8:57

family was living in a mobile home that was in

8:59

absolutely horrible condition it had

9:01

no toilet there were buckets of urine

9:03

and feces all around the home there

9:06

was rotten food everywhere they had rats

9:08

said insights mean like a

9:10

horrible condition is that

9:13

doesn't mean anything ramsay yeah yeah

9:16

i mean it was real a really really really bad living

9:18

environment so police charged billion

9:20

mary see was unlawful neglect to which they both

9:23

pled guilty the three girls were

9:25

placed in foster care until their parents

9:27

had a suitable environment for them and

9:30

and had intended several

9:32

counseling sessions puzzle in the last time

9:34

that dss was a learned about the pope's years

9:36

after amanda stats or sisters told a news

9:38

outlet that the two years following

9:41

than being returned to their parents things only got worse

9:43

so they slept with the ceiling fan no matter what

9:45

the temperature wise outside

9:47

because the air from the san

9:49

moving around the room would scare

9:52

the cockroaches keep them away i

9:56

don't have words for that hi

9:59

than keeps the cockroaches away

10:01

right i'm sorry

10:05

why can we not clean

10:07

this house i know and that's

10:09

the thing applies not

10:11

just that

10:13

he didn't have and

10:15

i can understand why didn't have the money they

10:17

they were struggling right isn't but at

10:19

the very least you could maybe

10:22

not just keep piles of garbage exactly

10:24

like even if you down not

10:27

every person who struggle

10:30

financially live in

10:32

a shitty

10:33

right exactly and i understand me how's

10:36

it going to get bugs i get it i have a centipede

10:38

in here just yesterday

10:40

it it without any fear didn't

10:42

even scream at one time i just got it

10:44

the i understand that every house a you're going to find a bug

10:46

and it right obviously but this is something just how was

10:48

infested with cockroaches yeah and

10:51

i'm not saying

10:53

you know that it would be i understand

10:56

that it's not so it's not like they're going to be able to call

10:58

the bug ban out and pay a thousand

11:00

dollars to get it you know whatever but

11:03

you can certainly make

11:06

a lot of strides by

11:08

cleaning the place

11:10

you live and that's really what the

11:12

girls had to make small pathways throughout

11:14

the house to move around the trash the rotten

11:17

food in the mess covering the floors this is on

11:19

the floor

11:20

yeah like that it doesn't have

11:22

to be that way

11:24

no dangerous a media

11:26

wonder that they weren't sick more

11:28

than they were and who's you know

11:31

the

11:32

amanda sisters sad that their

11:34

father remained abusive towards them

11:37

which indicated that billy had tormented his

11:39

daughters me years before and they

11:41

said that he had a patil which he recently

11:43

see that he would use to punish them so

11:45

one time amanda was covered in bruises for a particularly

11:48

aggressive punishment in

11:50

early two thousand and one someone at the girl

11:52

school called the us as reporting that there were cockroaches

11:54

crawling from the koch bros clothing and backpacks

11:57

terrific

12:01

for a lot of people and i might i mean this isn't made

12:03

me neither here nor there for a lot

12:05

of people scary thing that's imaginable the

12:07

rumors and spider hubbard

12:10

i mean

12:10

nobody who i am i don't know any have a newly

12:12

hookers that i like is the one from wally

12:15

he was adorable

12:17

yeah and for that to

12:19

be

12:20

that's still on their clothes

12:22

and backpacks and says when they are at school

12:25

so that's amazing if not

12:27

you now a cockroaches sat there in the house

12:29

yeah

12:31

that's really sad

12:33

and can even imagine how embarrassing it is for those grades

12:35

to go to school yeah yeah

12:37

we knew

12:40

girl who are family

12:42

didn't have all our money i mean urgently

12:44

didn't either she would where

12:47

she had basically like one pair of jeans that

12:49

the were all the time then i

12:51

remember one day kids at school making

12:54

fun of her because they could tell that she'd worn those

12:56

genes that a before the

12:58

guess she'd gotten some been on him they

13:00

were making fun of her i

13:03

walked over and i was like i'm or in the same genes our yesterday

13:06

why my for you

13:08

it like me so mad and others to

13:10

say and i was

13:13

kind of embarrassed about my clothes

13:15

but others just like i mean over

13:18

and like could you also have a tendency

13:20

to were seen as the same stuff that you like

13:23

and that fit you well and water

13:25

was rooting for that maturity mean like exactly

13:28

yeah i only have like two pairs of jeans were

13:30

hunter reay , the

13:32

says it's this says it's and that just

13:34

shows you what kids will do now when

13:37

i see something that's you know out

13:39

of the ordinary were you see a

13:41

chance to make fun of a kid for something that they literally

13:44

cannot help it out awful yeah exactly

13:47

the evening of wednesday nov twenty eighth

13:49

two thousand and one twelve year old amanda was at

13:51

home with her family eleven year old

13:53

sister jessica was struggling with for math homework

13:56

and amanda volunteer to help her though

13:58

he said that he and his wife agreed

14:00

the letter girl stay up until jessica

14:02

understood her homework

14:04

the younger stepsister seven year old pilot

14:06

reportedly went to bed around nine pm

14:08

the strawberry late well

14:12

yes they do i mean for a seven year old

14:14

the sample nine is kind of i i

14:16

i know some kids i do it none of some kids that go

14:18

to bed at like i'm thirty so but

14:21

i do feel like because of

14:23

him since the when say it's a win say

14:25

yes they were gathering they ran for

14:27

the next unless this is like thanksgiving that

14:29

around that's true the

14:31

couldn't be i don't know

14:33

that nobody talks about that than the day

14:35

the same sounds yeah

14:37

money and i said it with thanksgiving i don't know that

14:40

that is really is

14:42

allowing amanda to

14:44

stay up with her they

14:47

set up to one

14:48

yeah they didn't go to bed and for one

14:50

am and it's i who i could do

14:53

it or you know it's like bookcases but like

14:55

tonight tonight exactly

14:57

like and thanksgiving

15:00

is

15:02

to to the third line

15:04

there's a number which may second sell thanksgiving

15:07

absolutely former that okay yeah

15:09

because that that's what i was thinking was thinking like they have

15:11

school and acceptance of their like okay

15:13

amanda you say up with her until she gets her homework

15:16

now you've got two young girls

15:19

er up until one in the morning working

15:21

on math homework and i'm i mean

15:24

i don't have any

15:26

hope even that i'm going to be able to help my kids

15:28

with their math homework by the time there and seven rape

15:31

my kindergartners doing multiplication

15:34

in a strange and

15:36

they do differently now yeah to do everything

15:38

differently yeah so i'm not saying

15:41

you know i'm not semi

15:43

anybody for not being the one to help their kid with homework

15:46

because you know whatever by

15:49

the put on your twelve year old daughter during

15:52

our you'll figure it out

15:54

saban who abstain like yeah that

15:56

is so late other something as why

15:59

couldn't we have to spend like

16:00

you know it takes up an eye on we'll figure it out they

16:02

were heard of this weekend exactly like will will keep

16:04

at it but we need to get rest and

16:06

it stayed up to billy state

16:09

he just didn't appear to help with homework

16:12

as a nurse is weird hey you guys on

16:15

it's us again

16:16

it's only three we threw for a loop on this line

16:19

ah so we know that

16:21

know that of you have been asking like wtf

16:25

where are episodes one

16:27

there's forty four the phone

16:30

who

16:32

was just remember though when me

16:34

to take will caution here we don't know

16:36

exactly what we're doing back then and we started

16:39

this podcast as as a fun thing to do the sisters

16:41

we had no idea that it would grow into the super awesome club

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with you guys so what we're saying is

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the audio isn't super amazing but the clinton

16:48

is one hundred percent eyes

16:50

there's been eyes and talking about some true

16:52

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that had over to killer queens

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17:11

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17:14

of one thirty forty four today

17:17

killer queen to link finish

17:20

the

17:21

though he says that after

17:23

a little after one o'clock in the morning everybody in

17:25

the house is asleep the island ask

17:27

a shared a room amanda had her own though

17:30

he says he remembers linking up around three in the

17:32

morning

17:33

some reports that he got up to use the restroom

17:35

and then he went back to bed

17:38

he dreamt that the rapture was happening

17:40

thinking that

17:42

the a born again christian along with his family

17:45

would be saved then

17:47

his dream though billy said he was

17:49

left behind when

17:51

his alarm clock when off at six in the morning

17:53

billy took off his see pap mask and

17:55

went to wake up his children the economy

17:58

and his name but she didn't answer

18:00

and then he it's like a home

18:02

alone moment

18:03

where you like i made my family

18:06

disappear he is like person

18:08

did the rapture really happened was

18:10

that not just a dream and it's happen and

18:12

i've been left behind no

18:15

you didn't i don't know either

18:18

the hundred and strain on jr

18:20

but he thought you know maybe this really happened

18:22

and other stuff so he walked by the other bedroom and

18:24

saw kyle and just go sleep so he knew that

18:26

it was just the dream it never actually

18:28

happened

18:30

the fact that he called for his oldest daughter again

18:32

but she didn't answer and her bedroom door didn't

18:34

open

18:35

when he went to push her door open it

18:37

jammed against her closet door and it wouldn't

18:39

open it was almost like it

18:41

had been blocked by that cazadores their

18:44

hands up kicking the door as hard as he could

18:46

and then he finally was able to walk into his daughter's

18:48

room you saw amanda

18:50

lang face up on her bed partially

18:52

dressed swollen and covered in

18:54

bruises

18:56

knowing somebody walked over to her covered her

18:58

up and felt how cold she was

19:00

they're just after six am billy called nine

19:02

one one and tells them that his daughter

19:04

is dead have

19:07

you heard the final one call at

19:09

night but i have read it in

19:11

the dateline transcripts yes they

19:14

actually play at i'm pretty sure they play it in

19:16

the date line and am i wanna grab

19:18

a clip from it and play it because i feel like

19:21

any jarring the

19:24

hear how come here

19:26

how come he is in the best phrasing

19:28

that he uses he said yeah

19:30

my daughter's that she's called as a cucumber

19:33

that is just so matter of fact as as

19:35

she's cold as a cucumber

19:38

and they're like with don't you to try cpr anything

19:40

and he is no ma'am should badge is ice cold

19:45

you're my lower status code is okay

19:49

what about a paper your honor

19:51

know she's a she's i spoke

19:55

to say very

19:57

very the lines about

20:00

what kind of unattached it sounds like you

20:02

know they mainly she's night

20:05

i don't know i would expect if this he's

20:08

a sound his daughter dead that's a

20:10

huge the tell

20:12

if she was terminally ill right you

20:14

were expecting it no

20:17

it's just so bizarre to me that he's just like

20:19

yeah spike i don't mean

20:21

it this is the think the off

20:23

color but like the apps is better than

20:25

doornail yeah though we've

20:27

heard that and or nine one one call before

20:30

i don't get it was probably a dateline episode that i watched

20:33

i can't ever i don't think we covered this case

20:35

i remember there was a guy who found

20:37

his baby like maybe one

20:39

near old or less

20:41

then i don't remember it i

20:43

mean it's been a long time ago his or her crab

20:45

i can remember and he use that

20:47

phrase better than doornail pretty

20:50

sure that was vastly the phrase the is like a

20:53

nine one one call it's just

20:55

terrible

20:57

don't call their recorded and you

20:59

can hear those you know like that then

21:01

remember the one that we did i

21:04

think we did this unpatriotic but it was

21:08

the guy had been shot in his bed and

21:10

it in that be in the girls ex boyfriend

21:12

the shot him but not her

21:14

and the police thought she did it because she was right next

21:17

to him and his mom doesn't town visiting ts

21:19

that is that when they interviewed her and the

21:21

mom they were both so matter

21:24

of fact

21:25

and he's just been shot dead right

21:28

by the intruder that they don't know they

21:30

were in such a shock they

21:33

started completely

21:35

the detached from the whole situation and

21:38

mentally i guess they were

21:40

you know it was like their brain is like trying to curb

21:42

compartmentalize said yeah

21:45

i mean they're your body can do a lot of crazy things

21:47

when you have experienced trauma so yeah

21:49

i mean there are literally like

21:52

the whole years of our lives that like

21:54

you will mention something about and i don't

21:56

remember at all i'm telling you

21:58

and i don't know

22:00

it is coming from but my entire second

22:02

grade i thought it was a dream the entire

22:04

time like idol

22:05

i remember going to school and been like is

22:07

is really real right no real and

22:09

like yeah i don't i

22:11

remember parts of it but i

22:14

every i swear every day i was like

22:16

this can't be real like i just thought it was a dream i

22:18

mean

22:20

you know so like a definitely i feel

22:22

like him being like she's called as a cucumber definitely

22:24

sounds weird yeah and then

22:26

for him to kind of the wanna be like she's gone to

22:28

be the lord be with the lord she's a

22:30

christian

22:31

i got it down yeah i really gotta go

22:33

the the that's

22:36

definitely going to touch attention of an

22:38

investigator just like missing is

22:40

phrasing like that and stuff like that but

22:43

but not evidence now

22:46

and we'll go on to talk more

22:48

about more things that are not evidence xactly so

22:50

many things that are not evidence so first

22:52

responders arrived on scene shortly after the

22:55

nine one one call and saw that amanda was

22:57

in fact beyond hell when one of

22:59

the he and his as billy how long she'd

23:01

been dad he responded quote four

23:03

hours that

23:05

like how does he know that i mean i got

23:08

a delicious call like i don't out but you know i mean

23:10

again a red flags to them absolutely

23:13

that's incriminating he told them that amanda had

23:15

a history of rolling and her sleep and

23:17

probably choked on a piece of the blanket

23:20

it makes sense

23:21

the moment when he found are there was a piece

23:23

of her green blanket wrapped around her neck

23:26

detectives arrived on scene and began looking around

23:28

the house for anything out of the ordinary but

23:30

then also a unreal i'm going play like

23:32

devil's advocate i'm gonna like look at both sides

23:35

of he could be being late

23:38

well i don't know maybe she's maybe she choked

23:40

on or blanket because

23:42

he knew that he knew what happened as

23:44

he did it and he is trying to deflect

23:46

or so

23:49

out of his realm of possibility

23:51

that she could have been murdered that his like i've no idea

23:53

what could have happened to her

23:55

there are he's just trying to look on something

23:57

i don't know gathering yeah exactly

23:59

they always have that no one else had been in the

24:01

house and say went to bed

24:03

we've noted no signs of forced entry

24:06

and justice said that seen amanda have locked the

24:08

doors before they went to bed the night before

24:10

and they like more specific about

24:12

the fact that like they latch key

24:15

know the like chain and like all the south

24:17

so according to everybody

24:20

there's no way anybody gotten the how or they wouldn't

24:22

think so because they lock the doors the

24:25

house was an absolute

24:27

shambles there was clothing trash

24:29

boxes cluttering the floors throughout the home

24:32

the roaches everywhere

24:34

it was difficult to tell us anything without a place

24:37

because of how the shoveled everything was there's

24:39

no way to tell his

24:41

if there's signs of sugar right

24:44

several of the first responders also commented

24:46

that billy was not acting how they would have expected

24:49

him to be acting with what was going on

24:51

they said he was on his computer when they

24:53

arrived for just can tie over

24:55

sitting together on the couch

24:58

i mean that is strange

25:01

but you really what do

25:03

we do not evident heater i would like to know when he was doing

25:05

on the computer yeah i have no idea

25:07

the night hearing any noise during the night

25:10

by said that it was probably because of

25:12

how loud his see power mask

25:14

why is because it's like a machine that it helps

25:16

what keep you breathing if

25:19

you sweep up any yeah yeah it

25:21

does make noise and i'm sure it's it almost

25:23

axes like a sound machine i would think yeah

25:27

hopefully integrate the fans selling that's true

25:29

so i mean that i mean that's feasible like it

25:31

is possible the maybe

25:33

not hear something you know there

25:35

i can buy that i don't know i don't know

25:38

enough though a when

25:40

police initially question billy at am

25:42

he told them die

25:44

the three of them staying up late the night before as

25:46

well as how he found amount of amanda

25:48

that morning he said that when

25:50

he found her she had a strip of her green

25:52

blanket wrapped around her neck we

25:54

willingly went to with the police to the

25:56

hospital for they can perform a rape kit and obscene

25:58

his dna the enchanted another

26:00

maybe skin under and may and his

26:02

fingernails because she had scratched his back

26:05

the night before the bad seem

26:07

a little strange

26:09

think so ,

26:11

i'm like i had an edge and i couldn't

26:13

reach it would be i it just depends

26:16

on what has gassing we're talking about talking do remember

26:19

whenever we were younger mom would be

26:21

on the couch

26:22

the be my and with her legs out and i would lay

26:24

on her lap and she would scratch

26:26

my back i

26:29

mean i think that a do that with the boys all the time

26:31

the i just as a twelve

26:33

year old i don't remember sitting there scratching

26:36

bad back for him know his

26:38

dad would use the corner of the was

26:40

like what is it the women

26:43

living emily the man yeah

26:45

he would just use the

26:46

the corner and and scratch or

26:49

on the i'm pretty sure mom to i mean i don't

26:51

say and that like his dad was out doing here is okay

26:53

gotta it's right here my bad

26:54

then you get it i mean i'll be like guess or scratch

26:57

a real quick first semi normally he'd have a shirt

26:59

on yeah it's just a strange

27:01

thing to be likely you're going to fight hey iran that

27:03

you're gonna find my skin under her nails because

27:05

you scratch my back yeah absolutely

27:07

it i mean it is it's weird it's that's

27:10

not normal now i would say

27:12

i've never done it yet to my father i don't

27:14

know right

27:15

you guys have you ever wondered

27:18

about the backstory like why

27:20

we colored agnes kb

27:22

we have gotten this question so many times

27:24

we thought we'd release a little freebie for yeah

27:27

the we recorded a pager on exclusive to and

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27:33

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yeah so be sure to had to killer queens

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27:42

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30:20

we've interviewed billy again around noon and he told

30:22

them a similar story as he he had earlier

30:24

but he added that when amanda didn't answer

30:26

that morning he initially thought that the rapture had

30:28

occurred and he said that her death must have

30:30

been an accident because he didn't

30:32

hear any noises in the night

30:34

the body was brought to doctor james maynard

30:37

south carolina's forensic pathology for an autopsy

30:40

the place her time of death between two

30:42

and four am not morning he said

30:44

that her closing appeared to have been put on

30:47

if somebody else her parents

30:49

were not pulled up all the way in her bra was unhurt the

30:52

phone injuries you are had that were consistent

30:54

with having been hit repeatedly as well as

30:57

having been manually strangled what

30:59

he did not find related remarks which disprove

31:02

the theory that billy had provided that i made a had actually

31:04

strangled herself with wanted so

31:07

, maynard determined that it appeared

31:09

that amanda's body had been turned over multiple

31:11

times after her death he said

31:13

that she had injuries that were consistent with a person wayne

31:16

over three hundred pounds kneeling on top of her

31:18

and at the time billy wait three hundred and eighty

31:20

five pounds okay for

31:22

you know has elbow consistent with that

31:25

means maybe that could be

31:28

with

31:30

the for what it's worth it

31:33

there was evidence clear evidence that have

31:35

made a had been sexually assaulted in multiple ways and

31:37

doctor maynard said that the injuries to her genitals

31:39

appear to have been inflicted by hard object

31:42

the found that her hyman was not there and

31:44

there were no not any remnants to suggest

31:46

that it had been torn on the night of

31:48

the murders suggesting that that

31:51

evening was not the first hand the she'd been sexually abused

31:53

that's another thing that like

31:55

maybe maybe not

31:58

what you suggest yeah the

32:01

not a seal of freshness seal

32:04

you know like when you get a door pickles any

32:07

view it the seals broken don't open

32:09

the star pickles that's not what

32:12

the hymen is like know some

32:14

people are born late as they aren't some women

32:16

even born without it was whenever

32:18

people who

32:20

don't have one after using ten points

32:22

isn't or likes falling

32:25

or very like you know

32:27

you can enter years yeah there's so many other

32:29

ways

32:30

that can be broken so again

32:33

that's okay was she doesn't have one

32:35

and it doesn't seem like it was broken

32:38

the night by oh

32:41

now i just knew not

32:43

definitive i guess right

32:46

additionally she had a bad journal irritation

32:49

that supported prayer abuse and a bite mark

32:51

was found on her left breast which was so for dna

32:53

and with these findings police brought billy back in

32:55

for another interview informing him that

32:58

some of doctor maynard's findings so

33:00

they brought billy back into the police station at and fifty

33:03

pm in this is less than twenty four hours after his

33:05

daughter had been found murdered

33:07

the interview lasted for hours

33:09

and hope continue to deny any involvement with the

33:11

main his murder he said he had gotten up at three am

33:13

the went to use the bathroom he only tacked on pilot

33:15

in jessica because amanda store was closed the

33:18

detective told him that they collected saliva

33:20

and semen from him and his body and that they believed

33:22

him would match him that's not fair

33:24

they don't know that's not fair

33:27

they don't know they haven't

33:29

gotten the results back yet so to say i

33:31

mean is it apparently an interrogation tactics

33:34

you know if we know it was you know like they

33:36

don't exactly and and

33:38

to say like guy had we already

33:40

know we already know who to sell us

33:43

either you have denied at six

33:45

hundred time

33:47

the hours because we know it's true now

33:49

do some people of course do some people

33:51

deny shit before they then

33:53

family are actually guilty of course they do

33:56

by in this particular

33:59

case there are several the

34:02

interrogation tactics that are used

34:04

that illicit false confessions

34:08

then they just do

34:10

it seemed as though the detectives

34:12

interviewing bill he had already made up their minds that

34:14

he was guilty said throughout the four hours billy denied

34:16

hurting his daughter almost like he said six

34:19

hundred and fifty times following the interview

34:21

billy was arrested and charged with the murder of a twelve year old

34:23

daughter along with three counts of unlawful neglect

34:25

for the condition of his home that his children were for sullivan

34:29

the we continue to deny any involvement he requested

34:31

a polygraph you know how we feel about

34:33

five tests and this

34:35

is some bullshit so had the arrest

34:38

where it was granted by a judge based on the fact

34:40

that billy hi was the only adult in

34:42

at home the other time of the murder and

34:44

there were no signs of forced entry so

34:46

he was initially are officially charged with

34:48

amanda's murder at four thirty one am on

34:51

november thirtieth

34:53

can i am billy was transported to the

34:55

mosque justice center for his request polygraph

34:57

test

34:58

the way to constitutional rights and the examiner

35:00

proceed with the test the activity

35:03

yes or no questions like did

35:05

you talk me into digital commander causing her to

35:07

die for you in the room when amanda died and

35:09

he answer no to all of the questions the

35:11

examiners quite the task and hold believe that he

35:13

failed

35:15

he also said that believe

35:17

didn't seem very soft that he felt the test and

35:19

believed and off examiner if he could have may be killed

35:21

or and asleep the examiner

35:23

said the heat and think that that was possible and billy

35:26

then said that he must have done it

35:30

the you are telling somebody over

35:32

and over and over and over that they did something

35:34

these are tactics

35:36

with bethel years we work

35:39

i'm sure it was an accident you're a good

35:41

person i'm sure isn't that just tell us what happened

35:43

and will help you out and

35:46

then i mean go sold it for us as we

35:48

know you didn't if you don't confess

35:50

you're looking at the death penalty uh-huh yeah

35:53

if we can't help you unless you confess like

35:55

that when you have somebody

35:58

started saying could

36:00

i cannot see my sleep and

36:02

i don't know it inherited

36:04

it for for plus hours multiple

36:07

times they are

36:09

telling you things that aren't night

36:12

not true but you know they're like will be fight with

36:14

a dna and we think it's you

36:16

they're telling you all be seen yeah

36:18

exactly i mean it says

36:20

it'll make you question what

36:22

you remember what you know exactly it's gas

36:24

lighting absolutely does

36:27

following the purcell polygraph test

36:30

detectors continued questioning billy and it was

36:32

then that billy made his first confessing

36:34

to murdering amanda people believe but

36:36

he woke up around three am and he went into

36:39

the daughter's room to masturbate when

36:41

she awoke upset he jumped on top of her and

36:43

began seeing her in the head with this this and a video game

36:45

that was nearby he said that

36:47

he started choking amanda with us of his hands

36:49

and or greenland the

36:51

we than described how he sexually assaulted her

36:53

with a broom handle after doing

36:56

all of this billy said he left her they

36:58

are and went back to bed the then

37:00

signed his statement and such hands of the detectives

37:02

who reported that they thought the billy

37:04

looked really the were taken back

37:06

to the york county jail

37:08

also don't like like i really

37:10

really hope that

37:13

they weren't allowed to use he

37:15

looks like he was relieved after he confessed and court

37:18

i mean you know they work and as a thing though and we

37:20

i have such it which was on by the trial because

37:23

all the things that they the judge to not

37:25

allow and though

37:28

two days after billy raincoat made his confession

37:30

to police he requested to speak with the same

37:32

detectives the following morning billy

37:34

was brought to the sheriff's office for he made another

37:36

handwritten statement the statement

37:38

read quote i was asleep in my bed i

37:40

had a bad dream about an old girlfriend who

37:42

had an abortion the thought of her makes

37:44

me cringe my dream she was telling

37:47

me i had an abortion with your

37:49

child and told her no i became

37:51

so enraged that i got out of bed all

37:53

i could fear was that laughing sound i

37:55

do not know what came over me but i sat and

37:57

jumped on the bed and straddled amanda i

38:00

hit her in the head and started choking her

38:02

i did not know was my own daughter until after

38:05

i had sexually assaulted her i

38:07

fell back jarring me to my senses

38:09

and i realized it was my daughter and

38:12

became so confused that i tried to read the

38:14

house of all the stuff that would make me look guilty

38:17

i did not know if my own daughter until i

38:19

fell backwards the next morning at six

38:21

oh three when my alarm and phone rang

38:23

out i was hoping it was a very bad dream

38:27

make an offense now

38:30

lily agree to go it's it's had this to this home so

38:32

he could walk them through what had happened at

38:34

the house bill he gave the same story he gave his

38:36

most recent compassion adding that he'd wrap

38:38

the green blanket around her neck to make it

38:40

look like an accident whereas

38:43

the broom handle exactly

38:45

what and it has that it made has led yeah right

38:47

school about it they'd has the video game ah

38:50

yes all the sense that he said he used by

38:52

the senate has said they have such

38:54

tunnel vision on billy wayne

38:57

they have not looked at any other possible

38:59

suspects even though they have their dna

39:01

that's actual evidence is simply as

39:04

actual evidence well thanks

39:06

to bring up the dna later that day

39:08

billy was questioned by detectives again they told

39:10

him that semen with sound on amanda during her autopsy

39:13

the we admitted to masturbating

39:15

into a rag that night and then told police

39:18

where he could but where they could find the rag

39:20

they continue to interrogate billy which ended

39:22

in another signed

39:24

confession

39:26

now he says i woke up at about three

39:28

am i went to the bathroom and then

39:30

i went to remain as room and then he describes

39:32

masturbating and than sexually assaulting amanda while

39:34

she was sleeping we're not gonna go into

39:36

the details when she woke up

39:39

i jumped on top of her to keep her from turning

39:41

looking at me and then i heard her say daddy

39:43

help me i started strangling her

39:45

with my hands amanda was pulling

39:47

at my hands and i like going started hitting her

39:49

in the head then went back to strangling

39:52

her and she went limp i gotta

39:54

sell the green string on the blanket and was

39:56

thinking to myself this would look like strangled

39:58

herself i agree strip and

40:00

wrapped it around her neck i went straight with

40:02

the rob from off of florida

40:04

wrapped around her throat that

40:07

and tie i pulled both answer would be good

40:09

and tight her hands are already

40:11

at her next i listen then i six

40:13

the doors of a man his bedroom said that they would law

40:16

i pulled the closet door and the door together

40:18

that fall off the added this of the kids

40:20

would not wake up and see her before mormon

40:23

the got back into my bed of the a mask on a went

40:25

to sleep yeah and i woke

40:28

up at six o two according to the clock in

40:30

my bedroom that i've been called amanda

40:32

twice since i now knew she

40:34

was not going to answer there were

40:36

like a dream i thought it was a dream i did

40:38

not hear from amanda those two times i called

40:40

her the wraps her had just

40:42

taken place because i just finished reading

40:44

the left behind series about a month ago

40:47

had had the raptor had taken place

40:49

i was praying that it had i got

40:52

up and looked in on thailand just and they were still

40:54

safe i went to him and of door and i forgot

40:56

i had set the doors i pushed on him in they wouldn't open

40:59

i kicked the door open and saw amanda laying

41:01

there purple i walked

41:03

over to her and i tried to wake her and

41:05

she was cold i screamed

41:07

and unwrap accord that i put on her neck

41:10

iowa and jessica walked into the room and

41:12

kyle of started screaming the

41:15

close the doors of the girls on find him this

41:17

part doesn't make any sense know it doesn't

41:19

and another this is a small hard

41:22

the so specific that

41:24

it doesn't make any sense to me it was six oh three at

41:26

one point know it sucks of to

41:29

so specific near at my out why did that change

41:31

accolades

41:32

jessica said daddy is she dead

41:34

and i said yes go get on the couch and prayers

41:37

hard as you can and remember one thing she's with

41:39

jesus i ran to the telephone

41:41

which is exactly in front of the computer and called

41:43

nine one one i said my daughter is dead

41:45

and the cold or we keep amber reality

41:48

had not said in

41:49

not until today twelve o three a

41:51

one have i realized when i have done

41:53

up until talking with you

41:56

any other officer i blocked stuff out

41:58

i'm telling the truth everything i said

42:01

before now is not true then

42:03

he continues online now

42:05

he says that around the first of october that

42:08

year he had started going into amanda's

42:10

room at night and sexually abusing her

42:13

really hopes up the

42:15

prosecution it does

42:17

though by the time of phillies third confession

42:19

police had already gotten the results of the

42:22

dna swab from the bite mark on him and his breast

42:24

and the saliva was not a match to believe

42:26

the

42:28

the you know not now i mean a birthday

42:30

tell him it is

42:33

the window is public defender was finally

42:35

allowed to see him because he was and at first

42:38

he asked really want he signed the confession and billy

42:40

told him that the detectives told him that he

42:42

gets the death penalty if he didn't sign it

42:45

eleven month after i made his murder and man named

42:47

james edward sanders was arrested on

42:49

charges of robbery and assault with four different

42:51

homes near the pope's house the

42:54

he was a career criminal at forty

42:56

two years old had a long rap sheet he

42:58

mostly hide robbery and assault

43:00

charges she'd been in prison on us as

43:02

long as he hadn't been and when police tested

43:05

the sanders dna they found

43:07

that matched the dna on him and his body

43:09

and believe layer set up for one of the first time

43:11

he felt relieved you like maybe now

43:14

the detectives would discount the multiple

43:16

confessions as client games but

43:18

i didn't happen not only the police

43:20

still believe that billy with

43:22

involved with with amanda's murder they

43:25

also thought that sanders was his accomplice

43:27

they theorize that billy let's see enters

43:29

into his home that night he allowed him to do whatever

43:31

he wanted to amanda and they ask

43:33

adage the charge of murder to sanders

43:36

list then charged both

43:38

of the men with conspiracy the

43:40

now they're gonna additional charge for both of them the

43:43

only mean mountain i ever having

43:45

that sanders the world inspiring

43:47

with him to commit murder soon prosecutors

43:49

were as to how they connected the

43:51

two men they said i mean clearly if

43:54

you it doesn't take a rocket

43:56

scientist to see this isn't saner

43:58

seen i was on amanda

44:00

and there were no signs of forced entry

44:02

in the home billy obviously

44:05

the the of course the

44:08

guys this is so the

44:10

episodes went wonder if three

44:13

of the innocent files there

44:15

are like there's no sign of forced entry there's no

44:17

possible way anybody could have gotten the south and this

44:19

person but this little girl forty seven thousand

44:22

time

44:23

but it turns out it's an easy house to just

44:25

get into yeah exactly and then

44:27

a rather than taken

44:29

the l symbian like works

44:32

we messed up here there like

44:34

clearly they were working the

44:36

gather exactly it's so

44:39

like

44:40

talked about it before the unindicted lojack you later

44:42

like and ahead and i was gonna say no

44:45

yeah you did it but it's his semen

44:49

the dynamic duo the gruesome twosome

44:51

what it doesn't proves is that

44:54

billy wings hope not the only

44:56

correct what does bruce that

44:58

you guys are both kill the it's just yeah

45:01

nevermind that we have no evidence that you never

45:03

seen or spoken to each other eight

45:07

like referred are like you said the

45:09

house incredibly easy

45:11

to break into some of the detectives

45:13

when

45:14

when they were doing a walkthrough and they

45:16

used a credit card to get into the house

45:19

easy be the

45:21

though digging a further into sanders background

45:23

detectives found that he'd been paroled six weeks

45:25

prior to him and his murder and moved into his girlfriend's

45:27

house which was just want a five minute walk from the coaches

45:30

sanders and dna was also

45:32

found another home a mile about a mile

45:34

from the cope house where a six

45:36

year old woman was assaulted and raped a

45:39

week after that a woman about four miles away

45:41

had a man break into her house and sexually assault her

45:44

he identified sanders

45:47

along with another female who had been

45:49

assaulted less than a mile for amanda's house

45:51

yeah and it's also just by

45:54

the way none of these women

45:56

the in any of these cases they're all like

45:58

i don't know how he got into my

46:00

and there's there was no evidence of forced entry

46:02

no not at all in this this is

46:04

a small portion of the women at sanders was connected

46:06

you and

46:08

the mean like you liking kind of just

46:10

said boat would say same work and

46:12

all of these cases sanders attacked at night with

46:14

an accomplice in there was no

46:16

evidence that he broke into the house exactly

46:19

pope said that the reason he never mentioned

46:21

sanders and had in any of his confessions was

46:23

that he had never met him he reportedly didn't

46:25

even recognize him when they met after being

46:28

house in the same jail and billy

46:30

sad at that meeting that sanders told him

46:32

that he loves his neighborhood and billy awesome if you knew

46:34

tilt his sanders responded

46:37

by saying close let's say

46:39

i know you didn't do just

46:42

one month after remained as murder detectives

46:44

brush his wife mary sue into the station

46:46

in hopes of getting more information

46:48

of for them and at the same they

46:50

knew that the dna did not match belly but they

46:53

told mary sue that matched him and another

46:55

man who helped until amanda hi

46:58

your and yeah howling her

47:00

that

47:02

see man was found on his daughter

47:04

at like you know that's definitive

47:06

science sake this

47:10

the conversation was recorded by oddly enough

47:13

the recording given to the defense

47:15

did not contain the police of questioning it does

47:17

had mary sues answers summary sister

47:20

and a friend of hers amy simmons

47:22

had both become part of the defense

47:25

team they said that mary sue

47:27

did not want to go for undercover for the police by

47:29

it that they showed her the autopsy

47:31

pictures of amanda they showed her belief

47:34

compassion and say threatened

47:36

or and he finally agreed saying that

47:39

the police told her that if she didn't wear a wire

47:41

and get bullied confessor they take her children and

47:43

put her in jail i mean

47:46

the not a real threat i mean what

47:48

why would you have any reason not to believe that they would

47:50

do that the mary sue

47:52

after attempting to get a confession from her has been told

47:55

police that she looked her husband in the eye and new

47:57

the he didn't do it six weeks

47:59

after her one tired jail house

48:01

visit your husband mary sue actually

48:04

unfortunately passed away she

48:06

was recovering at amy's house

48:08

after a hysterectomy and she died unexpectedly

48:11

there's some questions about amy's involvement

48:14

there ah let's talk about amy

48:17

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48:22

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soon after mary sues that the woman who'd

50:34

been tending to her and this the same

50:36

person who had been part of believe legal defense

50:39

team the person who'd

50:41

been corresponding through blinks the letters

50:43

with philly throughout his incarceration amy

50:45

the his

50:48

friend drops respond she

50:50

came to both the prosecution and defense and

50:52

told them that she'd received a letter from billy

50:54

confessing yet again

50:56

part of a letter read dear amy god

50:59

told the to tell you that i killed amanda

51:01

please forgive me that is

51:03

going to remove his servants

51:06

the felt you should now please don't stop

51:08

writing i have to get on with my life

51:10

that whole letter it doesn't

51:12

make any sense it it's incredibly does

51:15

the joined by the don't you think like

51:17

it doesn't slow lane if

51:19

you were now

51:21

if you are writing it it was legit i think that it

51:24

doesn't make sense to manage this is not make any sense

51:26

has been distracted is a very good word for it the

51:29

billy denied writing this letter

51:31

to thank you for the compliment you're very welcome the

51:34

letter was sent to a handwriting analyst you

51:36

couldn't tell whether it was a forgery or

51:38

if it was real the envelope was

51:40

kill it clearly addressed by billy but

51:42

his defense team believe that the letter itself

51:45

as a forgery and guess why they're

51:47

the letter or the envelope was addressed

51:49

by billy my because they have been corresponding

51:52

before the exactly so she's guy

51:55

then she kept all the letters the far as a matter

51:57

of yeah so my

52:00

hand down

52:01

that while amy was going

52:04

to believe defense team meetings she

52:06

was also meeting with prosecutors

52:08

and giving them information

52:11

about has spent

52:12

it read your horses when asked girlfriend pounds

52:15

wine like

52:17

miss try i mean i don't i get thrown sort

52:19

of the light

52:21

look at the very least like it should be

52:23

i would feel like any

52:25

of her testimony should be the miserable

52:28

at that point became gypsies playing both

52:30

sides exactly she's not

52:32

trustworthy

52:34

though

52:36

obviously the doesn't seem as like oh

52:38

my god like what is happening so

52:40

they start looking into her and they found out

52:42

that she was one suspended from her

52:45

job as a nurse for forgeries

52:47

that she committed got a history

52:49

of it he if she'd pled guilty to

52:51

obstruction of justice and obtaining drugs

52:53

by false pretenses and another country

52:56

she'd also been under investigation because

52:58

a nursing home patient under her cared

53:00

died of a supposed insulin overdose

53:03

the outside in her kids and linking yeah

53:06

exactly

53:08

the defense team began reading through all of delays

53:10

or butters and they found the exact same

53:12

phrases use in his confession

53:15

letter to amy they were

53:17

ultimately able to find that his entire

53:19

confession letter appear to have been built from

53:21

phrases from his other letters

53:24

like we said what does

53:26

not flow which would make sense

53:28

if she's just like oh he wrote this sentence

53:30

in this one dissonance and one and

53:32

as cherry picked in yeah yeah yeah

53:35

so the discovery was brought back

53:37

to the handwriting analyst you finally felt

53:39

confident calling the letter a forgery

53:43

the never going into it is a trial

53:46

the state of south carolina decided on a joint

53:48

trial sending both philly and sanders

53:51

to court together reasoning that

53:53

because they believe billy had set sanders

53:55

up to murder amanda they should be tried to gather

53:57

i hear how did they

53:59

get the

54:00

conclusion i go again they're

54:03

trying them together because they conspired

54:05

quote together

54:07

there is literally not one

54:09

iota of evidence

54:11

that shows that they even knew each

54:14

other

54:14

that's the thing this is what pisses me off so

54:17

bad about trials like this is

54:19

the prosecution can pull literally something

54:21

out of there

54:22

reader added a key stir and

54:25

they don't have to have that know burden of proof they'll

54:27

have to prove it at all

54:30

the whatever but a button the the defense

54:32

dies say have to go

54:34

completely overboard to try to disprove

54:37

it it's so

54:39

unfair yeah

54:41

so after finding out that he was gonna

54:43

be tried with silly sanders read a letter to the prosecutors

54:46

asking quotes why are you trying me with dismay

54:48

and hope i don't even notice

54:50

the different theme yeah the

54:52

doesn't seem felt that shirley the trial

54:54

couldn't continue with the same assumption

54:56

of billy assisting sanders assisting sanders

54:59

claimed to have never met the man but in

55:02

late thousand and four believe hope and james sanders

55:04

went to trial for the murder of me and ago

55:06

the we've defense team brought in many victims

55:08

of sanders hoping to prove this mccain

55:11

a camp hoping to prove that

55:13

he had he had for how he committed crimes which

55:16

did not include a partner and that he was a serial

55:18

rapist and prosecution argued that

55:20

sanders other crimes did not ever

55:22

involve children or murder though

55:25

regardless of these arguments the judge for but sanders

55:27

other that painted other crimes

55:29

are not admissible in this trial because the facts were different

55:32

that there isn't

55:34

getting any other know they didn't and

55:37

okay so we know

55:39

that sanders has broken into

55:41

many homes in that area within walking

55:43

distance then he's rates many women

55:46

those when and happen to have then

55:49

home alone

55:51

i understand that the facts are quote

55:53

different in some way as where this was

55:55

a child done an adult

55:57

in a murder and not just behind

56:00

yeah when i think just a yes but

56:02

we also do know that

56:04

because rape as a violent

56:06

crime the very violent crime

56:09

then it does escalate if he can escalate

56:12

the other thing is what if he breaks

56:14

into this house fine for manda

56:17

then she says my daddy's home

56:20

he's gonna hear this and he's gonna kick your ass

56:22

or something you know what my dad's gonna come in here something

56:24

five what has he kills her because

56:27

he doesn't realize

56:28

before he gets into the house there's a bunch of other

56:30

people in the house like

56:34

that's not exactly the same but it's pretty

56:37

fucking close edit

56:39

know if this is nice the

56:41

police being like

56:43

the died defending like we think see

56:45

have committed these other crimes

56:47

he he added

56:49

amity that a kind we don't know but it

56:51

doesn't sound like he's chasing

56:54

places before he commits a crime

56:56

that sounds like he's just out one around

56:58

and tries

56:59

door knobs and tries doors and windows and

57:01

see if he can get in and whoever is in there

57:04

you know like i don't know that he's like watching

57:06

the cope house and been like all like chasing

57:08

him in yeah there's no there's a lot of people within their

57:10

cause he probably wouldn't broken into that house if

57:12

that had been the case it also

57:15

like i was saying about it's not like we don't

57:17

know that he did all these other crimes it's also like we don't

57:20

not that we don't know that he had

57:22

nothing in it on amanda like in one

57:24

hundred percent his dna the semen and

57:27

sir mark swab met

57:29

him and him alone as lily yes

57:31

they don't let anybody else so

57:34

tell me how you can there's

57:37

not a connection between like because like he

57:39

said i mean the that

57:42

will help a lot of times it's like a gateway

57:44

like young stop there now norway

57:47

bella homes what have we seen time and

57:50

time again word sexual predators you

57:52

go to jail for rape what

57:54

do they learn time and time again israel keys at

57:56

the same thing when either

57:58

he got my for everybody to going to get

58:00

instead but they learn you don't leave

58:02

a witness alive how you get better

58:04

at a yeah exactly don't leave them alive because

58:06

they can testify against you yeah the

58:09

also said that a false confession expert

58:11

that was brought in by defense could not reference

58:14

any other false confessions he knew

58:16

about that produced wrongful

58:18

convictions and the cases

58:21

they're like you can't actually you can't have

58:24

anything here not even papers no declaring

58:26

yourself right

58:28

the ability to santa is undefined saying that has

58:30

confessions were only given because of the polygraph

58:32

result in the police coercion and

58:35

he said that he lied and initially and

58:37

hopes of the saddle sing and insanity plea

58:39

the prosecution said that even with

58:41

this argument billy was not interrogated

58:43

non stop in fact he'd spent a weekend

58:46

in jail after his first confession been requested

58:48

to meet with police again to confess again

58:50

okay by it here

58:53

is what he was working with in

58:58

a flaw or visit it's find case

59:00

law find one they

59:02

have the like court documents in there

59:05

in

59:07

person around five

59:09

techniques that they use the

59:12

is false confessions one

59:14

evidence the officers telling cope that he'd failed

59:17

the polygraph when he had not

59:19

the you positive confrontation

59:21

the officers claiming that they knew

59:23

coped it it seems before

59:25

he ever confessed three

59:27

the officers refusal to accept

59:29

copes denials of guilt even though he

59:31

agreed to a polygraph and waved an attorney

59:34

because again

59:35

he did deny it over six hundred and fifty

59:37

times before he confessed but that

59:39

was not acceptable to them the

59:41

that's so unfair because

59:43

why did they not believe him six hundred

59:45

and fifty times until he said he gave

59:47

them the as they will exactly and then they and then he

59:50

said yeah did it and now we believe that even

59:52

though the evidence doesn't where's that prefers

59:54

the sperm handle

59:55

where's the evidence on that why is his semen

59:57

not on her way as is the

1:00:00

i know on her

1:00:01

really or minimization the

1:00:03

officer suggesting the crime of accidental and

1:00:05

we see the started time he gets when

1:00:07

officers get denial denial denial

1:00:10

denial then they'll say

1:00:12

well you're a good person and this was probably

1:00:14

an accident or she fell down on are now and

1:00:16

you just didn't want to call because you know that

1:00:18

the previous the as as complain

1:00:21

i'm thinking of second season double you know sherry

1:00:23

schreiner and barbara ah yes

1:00:26

yeah she was a target of like nineteen are straighten

1:00:29

and it was like very late at

1:00:31

night tears she had gone to bed yeah

1:00:33

yeah and she was like they really

1:00:35

could you do you think maybe

1:00:38

it , an accident or hi like i mean

1:00:40

i guess i don't i guess

1:00:42

i got done and done accident in accident guess i

1:00:44

could have been standing have been i could have been you know

1:00:47

exactly

1:00:48

and five interrogation local

1:00:51

was traumatized and tired so even

1:00:53

though he had couple

1:00:55

they are in between or whatever he's

1:00:57

still

1:00:58

a state of emotional trauma any is also

1:01:01

now starting to question his and reality

1:01:03

and he's to me him asking

1:01:05

the question trying done this follows asleep

1:01:08

london not and remember

1:01:10

and not have been conscious for it the

1:01:12

company he has no idea what's real anymore

1:01:15

right and also i just really believe

1:01:17

i don't know the way that he asked in what do i know

1:01:20

but along with other things that are part of this case

1:01:22

that to me points a lot he was innocent

1:01:25

why would he implicate himself in it if

1:01:27

he actually had done it maliciously in one

1:01:29

of yeah and why would he why would he say

1:01:31

i didn't hear anybody in the house

1:01:33

i didn't mind going on

1:01:36

the an accomplice why not be like yeah he

1:01:38

fucking didn't or yeah

1:01:40

like if he knew somebody was in there he

1:01:42

could have displayed are like i earth's you know why

1:01:44

would he be like i don't know i mean i guess she district

1:01:47

chet turner blanket when if you know

1:01:50

well she was strangled unbeaten then

1:01:52

you know the police are gonna

1:01:55

that in five seconds and be like will that

1:01:57

didn't happen lies you like

1:02:00

they're going to figure out something else happened say you

1:02:02

would behoove him it seems like to be like yeah

1:02:06

it looks like somebody broke and or something but he was

1:02:08

like emmy know we will on the door like i

1:02:10

don't don't think anybody came in

1:02:14

hi lower brought in to testify by the state

1:02:16

and tyler said that she heard someone scream and gasp

1:02:18

for air in the middle of the night but assumed it was a dream of

1:02:20

went back to sleep after that she

1:02:23

and amanda had worked on or math homework until about one am

1:02:25

the they went to bed and made sure that they turned off all the

1:02:27

light them last the front door including the chain

1:02:31

though it has if i that when he was in jail he realized

1:02:33

that he had book or falsely confessed

1:02:36

though he tried to and another story

1:02:38

with the intent of the police thinking he was crazy

1:02:40

and he said that police contained a threatened

1:02:43

him with the death penalty until he told them the truth

1:02:45

and by then he said he didn't care what happened anymore

1:02:47

and he signed anything the he was given

1:02:51

the night of september twenty second

1:02:53

two thousand for the jury came back with the unanimous

1:02:55

verdict against william sanders murder

1:02:58

two counts of first degree criminal

1:03:00

conduct criminal conspiracy

1:03:03

to commit criminal sexual conduct

1:03:05

an unlawful conduct was a child they

1:03:08

were both sentenced to life in prison with additional

1:03:10

sentences or thirty years each

1:03:12

so believes defense team filed multiple

1:03:15

appeal stating that his confession should have

1:03:17

been thrown out that he did not receive a fair

1:03:19

trial especially having been tried

1:03:21

with the man whose dna was found on

1:03:23

amanda others

1:03:26

even edge because

1:03:27

they didn't there was nothing that that

1:03:29

the prosecution provided during this trial

1:03:31

that said

1:03:32

any here is evidence that billy cope

1:03:35

and sanders knew

1:03:37

each other they texted each other they called each

1:03:39

other they emailed each other like nothing

1:03:41

it should be beyond reasonable doubt

1:03:44

and

1:03:44

that did not prove and yeah i mean

1:03:46

as far as i know i don't have the entire

1:03:49

trial transcript by it but you think

1:03:51

that we would here's an inkling of something it i heard

1:03:53

yeah will in fact they did know each other and this

1:03:55

is how we know that oh now the

1:03:58

only thing that they have is amy then

1:04:00

end

1:04:01

the who is a known liar

1:04:03

and am has actually in fact

1:04:05

been arrested for it set up and commits

1:04:07

perjury and some that's what kind

1:04:09

of outfit forgery under the leia category

1:04:12

but in april and twenty twenty two for

1:04:14

the first time since the trial tyler

1:04:16

and jessica cope spoke with the media writing

1:04:18

a letter to the herald they wrote

1:04:20

about the paddle that their father used to beat them

1:04:22

with and a constant abuse that they endured

1:04:25

particularly amanda this

1:04:28

is her respect and

1:04:32

he may should have that and said you

1:04:34

know for child abuse like i'm

1:04:36

fine with that i'm fine with him going to

1:04:38

jail for child abuse will absolutely

1:04:40

and i i think to i mean

1:04:43

they i don't know if the kids should have been taken

1:04:45

away permanently but he did not the family

1:04:47

didn't clean up their act after know they didn't

1:04:49

they didn't do anything i mean i

1:04:51

leave the house was still a rack there was

1:04:53

still no for control it in the house

1:04:56

a bucket of piss and shit everywhere

1:04:59

yeah rotten food like crunches coming

1:05:01

out of their backpacks like yeah

1:05:03

when we return these children to this

1:05:05

home in that condition for

1:05:08

the very least not have not sensible

1:05:10

fiona exactly what is your job

1:05:12

yeah and yeah and i understand

1:05:14

they have a lot to do and stuff like that like

1:05:16

i'm just saying it's a fucked up system

1:05:19

they said that they went in a filthy home

1:05:22

but the billy always made sure that his computer

1:05:24

and desk or clean and in good shape

1:05:27

despite his daughters were living without a toilet

1:05:29

at sometimes the girls

1:05:31

were up front saying that billy physically

1:05:33

and sexually abused all three

1:05:35

of his daughters and in their statement that

1:05:37

uses the you all close during the

1:05:40

past thirteen years billy has told a string

1:05:42

of lives that has shaped him into the victim

1:05:44

the world is forgetting that a twelve year old child boss

1:05:46

or life she is the victim my head

1:05:49

what the world and get to know is that amanda was

1:05:51

an intelligent and loving girl his passion

1:05:53

for god was remarkable oh

1:05:56

amanda cope wanted in life was to be happy

1:05:58

and she wanted a farm and horses the be

1:06:00

a large animal veterinarian she

1:06:02

touched the hearts of many with they're beautiful abilities

1:06:04

to sing and play the violin eventually

1:06:07

wanted to marry have children and travel the

1:06:09

world he added contagious laugh

1:06:11

what she used to make everyone who knew her smile

1:06:13

she's the one that missed out on my night

1:06:16

billy code the and

1:06:19

one of my biggest threat is it

1:06:21

again we don't know for sure

1:06:23

but it seems like the evidence points

1:06:25

to

1:06:26

sanders having done this of his own accord

1:06:29

without an accomplice billy

1:06:31

maybe not knowing it happened absolutely

1:06:34

by it one of the biggest

1:06:37

problem with

1:06:40

wrongful conviction is chorus

1:06:43

somebody who you

1:06:45

know didn't do something as is being punished

1:06:47

for it

1:06:48

that furthermore the victim

1:06:50

of that crime the

1:06:53

epic we don't get lost because the story

1:06:55

becomes about the person who's in jail for

1:06:57

now you got this ripple effect of so many additional

1:07:00

victims

1:07:02

in not real justice for the victim exactly

1:07:05

exactly is should he have been

1:07:07

in jail for his child abuse of

1:07:09

us as he was physically or sexually abusing

1:07:11

these children absolutely yeah

1:07:13

i mean with all the breezes that they had before it than

1:07:16

ever even happened maybe he should have been in jail for

1:07:18

exactly i yeah absolutely i have

1:07:20

any problems with that but

1:07:23

just if you look at the evidence it

1:07:25

seems like

1:07:27

you know can we convicted for the shitty did

1:07:30

right yeah

1:07:33

the police the

1:07:35

investigators the prosecution they kind of all

1:07:37

bullied him into

1:07:39

if it can happen to billy when tell that can happen

1:07:41

to anybody i mean that's the scary

1:07:44

part i don't care if he's in jail

1:07:46

i'm sad about him be in jail he needed to be in

1:07:48

jail this

1:07:51

happens to many

1:07:53

people the and

1:07:56

it shouldn't make the whole reason

1:07:59

we're supposed to have checks and balances

1:08:01

and like okay somebody can confessed

1:08:03

something all they want but of the evidence

1:08:06

doesn't match that you know

1:08:08

because people do falsely confesses to

1:08:10

fight

1:08:11

i really believe that we need the and at least

1:08:13

we talked about we've talked about suffered

1:08:16

this needs to change so many to change your i don't

1:08:18

know and necessarily what exactly looks like but

1:08:21

maybe we need to do have some different

1:08:23

interrogation tactics ah

1:08:26

the goal of interrogation is that the truth

1:08:29

it is a confession

1:08:31

everything that they do geared

1:08:34

toward a confession not everybody

1:08:36

you interrogate is going to be guilty right

1:08:39

absolutely no or and they don't

1:08:41

care how and for prosecutors our goal should

1:08:43

be the true the

1:08:46

night i need that w to make my

1:08:48

record look good

1:08:50

absolutely and we've got we've got a little

1:08:52

slack for life

1:08:53

people saying that you know where negative about prosecutors

1:08:56

the law enforcement insects whereas negative

1:08:58

about all of them but when there is prosecutorial

1:09:01

misconduct and when there are

1:09:04

the ethical interrogation tactics

1:09:06

being used that's where we

1:09:08

have a problem in

1:09:10

the thing about making a change

1:09:12

is the not talk about it isn't gonna

1:09:14

do anything right there

1:09:16

has to be something in it he now this

1:09:19

is

1:09:20

i think what we can do as

1:09:23

people who are interested and

1:09:25

true crime a bigger

1:09:27

things that we can do is to vote the

1:09:30

family and our local elections do research

1:09:32

on your judges do research

1:09:34

on arbitrage a yeah and

1:09:37

find out what kinds of

1:09:39

you know when they've gotten and how did they

1:09:42

go about that are they are

1:09:44

they under investigation for prosecutorial misconduct

1:09:46

like you know those kind of things like look into

1:09:48

it then vote for people

1:09:51

you're gonna do their job honestly which you

1:09:54

know i know in politics except find by now

1:09:57

this is one thing that we can do because we see these than

1:09:59

just

1:10:00

this has happened and again i'm not saying it's an injustice

1:10:02

against philly cope it's an injustice

1:10:04

against semantics a a means sanders is in

1:10:06

jail and that's where he needs to be because he clearly did

1:10:08

this the right

1:10:11

it's still in away harnesses

1:10:14

her just as some light because we didn't

1:10:16

they'd never looked for him rape

1:10:19

you know so it could very easily

1:10:21

have been just billy went up

1:10:23

that went to jail and sanders stays

1:10:25

out and does this to somebody else we

1:10:27

are in i mean even look at what

1:10:30

it does episode that we just time

1:10:32

one how

1:10:35

it was written i think yes i think it's like the

1:10:37

notes or anything like that or even begins not

1:10:39

the case or know how to set spent

1:10:42

we don't spend a ton of time talking about

1:10:44

amanda the the

1:10:47

majority of it talking about bill

1:10:49

we won't get a dead shaker not exactly

1:10:52

yeah exactly it's frustrating

1:10:55

because that's the situation

1:10:58

create that that

1:11:00

outcome absolutely

1:11:02

yeah

1:11:03

i am thursday february ninth twenty seventeen

1:11:05

billy went hope died of natural causes

1:11:07

in prison he maintained his

1:11:10

innocence throughout his incarceration and

1:11:12

sanders will also die in prison

1:11:14

the and fan ah

1:11:17

man yeah it's is always really

1:11:19

tesla children absolutely

1:11:22

of course this if you made it through the

1:11:24

school in which we understand if he couldn't do it i totally

1:11:27

get it we want to know what you're saying yeah

1:11:30

what do you think that i've i've seen

1:11:32

kind of all over the board out there there are people

1:11:34

who think he's guilty people who think his diet

1:11:36

i'm not

1:11:38

totally sure but just the evidence that they have

1:11:40

i feel like points to sanders and

1:11:43

and points to them not knowing each other

1:11:45

yeah could i mean sanders said it to them

1:11:47

by it and they'll let us believe

1:11:49

i think and pinky there's

1:11:51

so much for listening we will catch on the next episode we

1:11:53

lucky okay

1:11:58

before we go said only doesn't mind oh

1:12:02

yeah can we get s hey girl

1:12:04

says she's just so carver syndrome

1:12:06

wife kelly shh was

1:12:09

just visiting gets ashley's

1:12:11

what

1:12:13

when he , michael

1:12:16

michael caraway happy caraway audrey

1:12:19

bragg shannon audrey fight through

1:12:21

harder kelly fail

1:12:24

house

1:12:26

mary i'm at night nina se

1:12:29

more and highlights jessica monsieur

1:12:32

i'm i'm aware and , feel

1:12:35

feel upcoming forgot sexy forgot

1:12:38

maria know mara maria

1:12:40

mary morgan so

1:12:42

yes greater caliber you

1:12:44

have to reapply

1:12:47

haven't eaten

1:12:49

and three see him very alveolar

1:12:52

telling some when very perjury and

1:12:55

elisa of them have effect rebecca

1:12:58

been fun nine or my friends

1:13:00

christine flavor spaniels hercules

1:13:03

pamela , cover

1:13:05

by madison fairest , or

1:13:08

danielle casting yetta seneca

1:13:11

elder marnie

1:13:20

adrian

1:13:21

level and or ira

1:13:24

to give us must be matthew we

1:13:27

love to hear your thoughts on this case connect

1:13:29

with us on instagram or facebook to continue

1:13:31

the conversation thanks for listening

1:13:33

and we will meet you back here next week see

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