0:07

Ken folk , what's going on? How are you doing

0:10

PTL and Barlow here. I walk with you as

0:12

a prepare you for this life and the life to

0:14

come. I've got a special guest with

0:17

us today, as we continue

0:19

our conversation on calling, I have

0:21

the artists extraordinary Tammy

0:24

Coker . Yes, sir. What's going

0:26

on PT? No , not much

0:29

Tammy . Introduce yourself and

0:31

what you do for we

0:33

get it tomorrow . Yeah.

0:36

My name is Tammy Coker . I'm a photographer

0:38

and graphic designer based in Dallas,

0:40

Texas. Um, I

0:43

specialize, I would say in

0:45

emerging photography and graphic design together telling

0:47

stories through color , um,

0:50

and you know, creating an artwork that uplifts

0:53

the people in my community and people that look like

0:55

me so they can see myself in their

0:57

work man. Awesome.

0:59

I want to go ahead and start

1:01

with your kind of history

1:04

and your background. Uh, where

1:06

are you, where are you originally from? I'm

1:09

originally from legacy Nigeria. I

1:11

was born there and

1:13

I moved , um , to

1:16

Canada in 2003.

1:18

And then I moved to , uh

1:20

, Arlington, Texas in

1:22

2004, actually Fort worth.

1:24

We moved to Fort worth first in 2004.

1:27

Um , and we've been in Texas ever since.

1:30

Okay. And so you went to high school in

1:32

Texas, went to middle

1:34

school, partly part of middle school

1:36

and high school in Texas? Yeah. Okay.

1:39

Okay. And then , uh, when you

1:41

left , uh, when

1:44

you left high school, where did you go? I

1:47

went to the university of Houston

1:49

where I met you and all

1:51

of the amazing people in my life. Um,

1:53

yeah, I went to U of H to

1:56

study by American

1:59

generic . Yeah. I

2:01

like to get into that. I, you know, I

2:05

I'll set this thing up. So

2:08

why did you pick if it

2:10

goes to our , uh , uh , issue

2:12

of calling, but we'll get to like the

2:15

big, broad , uh, a

2:17

bigger, broader conversation about that, but , but

2:20

why did you originally pick biomedical

2:22

engineers ? Yeah , man , uh,

2:25

to make my parents happy, honestly, because initially

2:27

I wanted to do music. I

2:30

was like, Oh man, I want to go play for Chris Brown.

2:33

I want to go pray for, or with or

2:35

Franklin. I want to play for

2:37

, uh, Kirk Franklin,

2:39

Fred Hammond , you know,

2:41

all of these, I know there's a wide range, but I

2:43

was , I was fine with look circular

2:45

and worldly in a Christian

2:49

artist at the time I was like, I just want

2:51

to go on a concert and play and help,

2:53

you know, create music for people's albums

2:56

and stuff like that. And , um, my

2:58

dad was like, you don't need

3:00

to go to school for music. We

3:03

didn't come to America for you to

3:05

go do that. You know, you can, you can study

3:07

music on the side while having

3:10

a ma a good major. They'll bring food on

3:12

your table. I was like, Oh, okay.

3:15

Now I fought for it. But my dad said no. And

3:17

so he said, find something else. I

3:19

was, I wanted to go to UNT, to

3:21

study music. Cause one of the best , um

3:24

, in the state. And I, I

3:27

saw biomedical engineering and I was like,

3:30

Oh, robotic arms. They're moving. That's

3:33

pretty. That's pretty cool. I'm

3:35

to cook it. And so I did.

3:38

And um, yeah,

3:41

eight is it so mostly

3:43

before we get to it, most people don't know that you're

3:45

a musician. What do you play? And

3:47

how long have you been playing it? Oh

3:50

man. Uh , I've been playing

3:52

since I was , uh , nine

3:54

or 10. I remember my dad brought

3:57

someone to teach me and my sister

3:59

and yeah, I

4:01

loved it because I

4:04

know growing up, I realized there were always

4:07

States . I was always trying to find ways to express

4:09

myself and music gave me that

4:11

outlet. And I was like,

4:14

this is dope, you know? And

4:18

yeah, I play, I've played a key he's

4:21

um, I got better as I

4:23

got older, when I moved to America, I got

4:25

a lot better. Um, and

4:27

there's actually a time in college. We

4:30

should probably get to that later. But where

4:32

I told my dad,

4:35

I was switching my major, it wasn't happy.

4:37

You're going to bad argument. And

4:39

I just went upstairs to my

4:41

bedroom. My piano was there and

4:44

I just worshiped and prayed and

4:46

played my heart away while cry.

4:49

But it was, it was, it was very therapeutic. Yeah.

4:52

So , uh, having

4:54

this love for music , uh,

4:57

probably not having this , uh

4:59

, a passion for bio medical

5:01

engineering. Now, now there's

5:05

something I want to draw attention to eat.

5:07

You were good at

5:10

pretty much any subject that you would have

5:12

picked up. Was that part of the issue

5:14

in you trying to figure out what it was

5:16

at you or at least wanting to

5:18

make a decision about what you want it to do?

5:21

Yeah. I was very, I was very scared.

5:25

Um, growing up, I was never outspoken.

5:28

I was like quiet

5:30

guy. My sister was like the lion . I

5:32

was like the little sheet . That's just like, just,

5:36

I didn't want, I didn't want quarrels . I didn't like

5:38

arguments. I didn't want to make people

5:40

uncomfortable. So I would be okay with being

5:42

on Kampala as they say. Yeah,

5:45

exactly. No holla all

5:47

. And um,

5:51

yeah. And so, you know, the whole major

5:53

thing, I just, I just kinda gave up and

5:55

I was like, okay, fine by engineering.

5:59

I was still play keys. I'll take my keyboard with me to

6:01

college and I would just learn what I can. So

6:04

then you get to, you get to college. Uh,

6:08

when is the decisive moment for

6:10

you that you decide

6:12

biomedical engineering? Isn't

6:14

it? I'm going to do

6:16

something else? Probably.

6:19

Probably halfway . No.

6:23

Yeah. I'll probably say halfway during

6:25

my first year. Um,

6:28

actually, no , uh, the , the , the beginning

6:31

of my second year, I was

6:33

like, Nope, this is not

6:35

for me. I remember science class.

6:37

I wasn't doing well. I hated that class

6:40

talking about mitochondria and all of the cells.

6:42

And I was like, fam I

6:44

don't, I don't care. You

6:47

know, and I wasn't doing good in those classes.

6:50

Um, I remember my GPA was like

6:53

a 2.8 that

6:55

semester, which is very

6:57

bad. Um, because of one class that

6:59

I got, like , uh , I

7:03

got like a 70 in or something or

7:05

maybe a 60 17 . Um,

7:08

and I was like, yeah, I have to, I have to switch.

7:10

Like, I, I think I , I,

7:13

I remember just realizing,

7:16

like I can live my life to make other people

7:18

happy. And what am I doing?

7:21

You know, like if they, if , if my parents

7:23

passed away, I would not know

7:25

who I was because I was living my life for

7:27

them. Wow. That's

7:30

a , that's an interesting statement. Uh,

7:33

if your parents had passed away, you

7:35

wouldn't know who you were because you were living

7:38

your life for them. So , uh,

7:40

you make a decision to leave

7:42

biomedical engineering. You

7:45

don't go to music. Why

7:47

? Hmm

7:51

. That's that's a good question. Um,

7:55

I don't know. I think, I

7:58

think in college , um,

8:01

I remember Dennis and other friends,

8:03

Dennis Campbell and other friends came to me and were like,

8:05

Hey, you

8:07

have an eye . I was using the iPhone,

8:09

3g, taking pictures of people and like

8:12

using different apps to just make

8:14

weird things. And

8:16

they were like , um , yeah,

8:19

Tim , you have an eye . Like she look

8:21

into getting the camera.

8:24

That's what Dennis told me. And I was like , uh

8:26

, I don't have the monies though . Okay . I'll

8:28

help you find one that's cheap. So

8:31

I think the camera was like 360

8:34

and I had $365 in my bank account.

8:38

And Dennis was like, yo, I found the camera

8:40

, um , is within

8:42

your budget is at the store. I'll give you a discount

8:44

so that you can afford it and blah, blah, blah. And

8:48

I got it, you know , that December. And

8:50

that was the same time I changed my major and

8:53

I was broke, but I was so happy. I went back and

8:55

made a video. Uh

8:57

, I took pictures. I still have, like,

9:00

I have my first album of pictures that

9:02

I took on my Facebook. I

9:06

had a Nikon D 3,100. That was

9:08

my first. Wow. And

9:11

then, so you take these pictures,

9:14

you're posting on Facebook. What

9:17

did you change your major to? Yeah,

9:20

so I changed my major to digital media. I

9:22

, uh, I saw something that,

9:26

you know, gave me an, gave

9:28

me like different outlets. So digital

9:30

media, there was like photography, graphic, design,

9:32

web design, printing , um,

9:36

animation, I think in all of this,

9:38

all of these different outlets. And I was like, okay,

9:41

well, I'm just gonna go in and

9:43

see which one , um, works

9:45

for me. I was like, I'm

9:47

pretty drawn to photography though.

9:49

So I'm going to take those classes.

9:52

But the funny thing is when I switched my major that following

9:54

semester, I actually took two music classes.

9:57

And even in my first semester in college, I took a music

9:59

class music theory. And then the second

10:02

one, I took like music theory to where

10:04

we actually had to like read no,

10:07

I think the first one was music history. And then music

10:09

theory one, and that semester

10:11

I took a music theory plus digital media classes.

10:14

And I had a 3.7 GPA.

10:17

And, and you know, of course people

10:20

were like, people

10:22

are like, Oh, you just take an easy classes.

10:24

I remember someone was saying that I was like, no,

10:27

I'm taking something that I love. And I'm serious about

10:29

what do you mean the classes, you know?

10:32

Um, but was crazy before I switched

10:34

my major, you know, I had someone calling me

10:36

my dad's friend from Canada. I was like,

10:39

Tammy, I don't think it's God's will for you to

10:42

switch your major right in your life. Yeah.

10:45

I was like, I don't know who you are. You know,

10:47

it was a big thing, you know, my mom, I

10:50

think she just wanted peace. So she was like, and

10:52

of course, like honoring my dad,

10:54

she was on his side, but she's

10:56

like, Timmy just it's

10:58

just for years. And that's what people kept saying.

11:01

It was just four years, just do it. And

11:03

you can do whatever you want. That's like, what kind of life

11:05

is that? As if you have four

11:08

years as if you're promised four years. Exactly.

11:11

And then I'm like, who's going to pay all

11:14

of this stuff, you know, because

11:16

after four it's crazy. Cause after I graduated,

11:19

my dad still like, try to talk

11:21

to me about like doing biomedical

11:23

engineering as a master's . I

11:25

was like, did you not get the memo?

11:28

You know? And I told him, no, I was

11:30

like, no , can't do that. So what

11:32

was that conversation like when

11:34

you change the major

11:37

and you talk to your parents about it , uh

11:40

, what was that conversation like? Oh

11:43

, it was bad. It

11:45

was bad. Um , not

11:47

like physical bad or anything like that,

11:49

but it just like, like

11:52

verbally feeling

11:54

Like a disappointment feeling like,

11:56

Like alone.

11:59

Cause I was like, man, what am I going to do? Me

12:01

and my dad's relationship.

12:02

We weren't, we weren't really close. And so

12:04

it just made things worse .

12:06

And I

12:08

was like, I can't live my life for you. Like you had

12:10

your time, you know what I'm saying?

12:12

You were an engineer now you're a pastor.

12:15

You've made your choices. You've made your bed and you

12:17

laid in it. Let me make, let me make

12:19

my own bed and lay in it. And the thing was like,

12:22

I wanted to own my own narrative. Yeah .

12:23

I was tired of people

12:27

owning my life

12:29

in a sense, but my life story,

12:32

you know, cause I was like, I

12:35

don't know. I just,

12:36

It was this whole pride thing that came with the African cultures.

12:39

We'll let go . My son is a doctor. My son is a nurse.

12:41

My son is a biomedical .

12:43

I'm like there

12:46

has to stop. Like my

12:49

son is

12:50

Whatever he wants to be a non-private him

12:52

Type of thing, you know, type of support.

12:55

And um, you

12:57

know, yeah. It's crazy. That stuff I went through,

13:00

I don't know how I came out saying, you

13:02

know what I'm saying? Like, cause I , but

13:04

I realized

13:05

That the stuff that, and I don't know if it was

13:07

You or someone at

13:09

a good hope told me this too

13:11

. Like the things that you're going

13:13

through, no , you had a

13:15

sermon , um, on

13:18

a Thursday night and I think you were like,

13:20

you know, the things

13:21

That you're going through is not for you, but it's

13:23

To help other people now it's

13:25

like now like,

13:28

okay, God, I don't know what

13:30

you're doing, but if this is to

13:32

help someone else, I'm

13:34

going to continue and go through it. And

13:37

that gave me the courage

13:40

to continue. Cause there were times

13:42

I just wanted to like quit.

13:45

I remember those this semester, my

13:48

me and my dad, we didn't talk like literally

13:51

I like me telling him I switched my major.

13:53

He was already in Nigeria and I emailed him. It's

13:56

like induce , like you're

13:58

not going to do it. I was like, yes, I am like

14:03

, it's already done. You know what I'm saying? Um,

14:06

and we didn't talk

14:08

relationship was, it was worse. Don't pretend

14:10

I talked with my mom at the time. She was

14:12

just telling people like, what am I like

14:14

, what am I

14:14

I'm going to tell my friends that my son is studying

14:17

camera. And I was like, mom,

14:19

No. You know, but

14:22

yeah, it was, it was, it was , uh

14:24

, it was a , it was a hard time and

14:28

it felt lonely. I think like the

14:30

only people that I really had was like

14:34

you guys from church and

14:36

like

14:37

The first couple of pictures I took, like, you guys allowed

14:39

me to bring my camera to church on Sunday

14:41

and just take pictures. I have a picture of you, a picture

14:44

of Xi'an and I would picture him ,

14:46

I'll put your mic. I have a picture of

14:50

Chad, you know how to picture of

14:52

everyone. And because

14:54

of those pictures, I realized I loved

14:56

portraits of people. And like, I can go

14:58

back to that album and see the

15:00

pictures I took. I still remember it . Like I

15:03

remember , uh, Sola

15:05

and I came to Dallas , uh

15:07

, for Christmas that December. And

15:10

we went out to go eat and I brought my camera and I took a picture

15:12

of them eating. And I was just like, I

15:14

just love taking pictures of people, you know? And

15:18

it evolved, man, this

15:20

is, so this is so rich,

15:22

man. I, so, so

15:25

, uh, just for, for our audience

15:27

sake , uh, we

15:29

were part of the founding staff

15:32

that started a church

15:35

plant called resurrection Houston , uh,

15:39

back in , uh, 2013,

15:41

2014 time period. And

15:44

you were , uh, our,

15:47

one of our resident artists. And

15:52

so , um , man , just bridging into this

15:54

conversation about

15:57

calling, did you, do, did

15:59

you feel a sense that you were called

16:02

to do what you were doing and

16:04

why ? Yeah, I

16:06

do, because I remember specifically

16:09

one night I can never forget. And

16:12

this was in my, this

16:14

was in my , um , dorm room. Um,

16:19

this is sort of five and switch my major. I

16:22

was on the floor. I was crying. I was like, God,

16:24

I can't do this. Like I was depressed.

16:27

I was like, what kind of life is this? I'm

16:30

like, I'm crying right now. My parents over there chilling,

16:33

waiting for me to graduate in biomedical engineering

16:35

degree, you know? And

16:39

I was like, God , I can't do this. And I remember

16:43

in the background, Melly

16:45

musicals, plane , um,

16:47

I find them with a song. Uh,

16:51

it was like, Lord, if I could buy you

16:53

a gift, blah,

16:56

blah, blah, blah, that song. And

17:01

um, yeah, I was just crying on the floors that God gave

17:03

me the courage because I

17:06

can't do this anymore. And

17:08

I want an out, but I'm scared

17:12

because I don't know what's going to happen. Like

17:15

my parents are paying for my school fees and all

17:17

of that stuff. What if it stops?

17:20

And I vividly remembered

17:22

this feeling and

17:25

almost want to say, like , I just feel that the Holy

17:27

spirit of God was talking to me in that time of

17:29

like, I

17:31

take care of my own. And

17:34

that night there

17:37

was a switch. I like , well,

17:40

Yolo, you know what I'm saying? I was like,

17:43

if this is what God is telling

17:46

me, like, why should I be scared? Like,

17:48

it's going to be hard. I'm going to have nights. I'm going to

17:50

be crying, but God got

17:53

me, you know? And

17:55

it's crazy. Cause that was that same semester. There

17:57

was a , um,

17:59

in may go man, after God's own heart that I would start out

18:01

with, go to on-campus . I think solo

18:03

was preaching and one of the titles was, God got

18:05

me. And I was like, well, all

18:10

right , let's do this. And

18:12

um , that was the same semester. I , um

18:14

, talked to my parents about switching my major. So

18:16

20, 2012,

18:20

yeah, 2012 , um

18:23

, spring. That was when I wasn't

18:26

by an ma uh , I was a digital media major.

18:29

So , um, when

18:33

you hear the word calling, what

18:36

does that mean to you in light of the fact

18:38

that you come from a

18:40

family of preachers you

18:42

yourself? I know

18:45

, uh, have a gift to

18:47

orally communicate. You can

18:49

play the instruments. Uh,

18:52

no one would normally think that , uh,

18:55

Oh, okay. He's gonna be like

18:57

his father and follow his

18:59

footsteps in the ministry. What

19:02

does, when you hear calling, what does that

19:04

mean to you? Man?

19:06

When I hear calling , I, I

19:09

think of like, I

19:13

think of purpose and I think of gifts

19:17

and you know, people,

19:20

people were probably thinking I was going to be a preacher

19:22

or whatever. And I was like, look, I don't like talking,

19:26

you know, I don't like , um , I'm

19:28

an introvert. I don't like talking,

19:30

I overthink things. And

19:34

I was like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not doing that. But,

19:38

so music was a way for me to talk it

19:40

, the weight for me to convey a feeling was away from

19:42

me to allow people to understand how

19:45

I'm feeling or what I wanted them to feel or

19:48

you know, all of these different

19:50

things. And yeah.

19:53

And so I feel like, I feel like calling to me

19:55

is about it's about purpose and,

19:58

and the gift. And I feel, I

20:01

feel encouraged that

20:03

there's nothing you can do in this world

20:07

to block your calling. If God has already planned

20:10

it for you, man, you know,

20:13

you can mess up, it can take longer,

20:16

you know, but if, if God has

20:18

something planned for you, like there's nothing,

20:22

the devil, nothing that you can do

20:24

to squash that. And I feel like God

20:27

had this plan for me. I've

20:29

always known, I went to work for myself. I just never knew

20:32

when or how and if it

20:34

would happen, but I've just

20:36

always remember having that feeling like yo, I'm not

20:38

trying to work under somebody every

20:41

time. Like I want to have my own

20:43

schedule , um, and things

20:45

like that. So man, so

20:48

, uh , you're , you're very

20:50

talented. You have talents in various

20:53

areas. You're welcome.

20:56

How did you land upon the fact

20:58

that this is what God does?

21:00

Often we have gifts and

21:03

we're gifted in various areas and

21:06

it can sometimes be confusing. I

21:08

know this for me. Am

21:11

I called to this or

21:13

am I just good at it? Right.

21:16

Yeah. I think, you

21:18

know, I think of the

21:20

Bible verse that talks about whatever

21:23

you do do to the glory of God. And

21:27

I feel like when that becomes your mindset,

21:31

you are eventually going to find out what your

21:33

calling is. I think we get lost

21:35

on what our calling is. When we start focusing

21:38

on, is this going

21:40

to get me out of this job and making

21:42

work for myself? Is this gonna give me

21:44

monetary? Um,

21:47

whatever. Like once the focus starts

21:49

to shift, then all

21:51

of these gifts now become like a

21:55

side income type of thing. Right?

21:58

And so for me,

22:01

I always tell people like you're

22:04

calling by beats , continue being at your

22:06

job. You know what I'm saying? But

22:09

people, people , um,

22:13

don't want to hear that. Right? They want

22:16

to believe that their calling is to be an entrepreneur

22:18

and is like, look, if God says, you're not going to be

22:20

an entrepreneur, there's nothing in

22:22

this world you can do to become an entrepreneur. You

22:25

know, if God says, you're not going to have 300,000

22:28

followers on Instagram, there's literally

22:30

nothing you can do, you

22:32

know , um, to get there.

22:34

And so it's like stop fighting

22:38

and just be faithful with the gift that God

22:40

has given you and let God do the rest.

22:42

You know? Like I, I like

22:44

even, even until today, even in college,

22:46

I still played music. I was still trying

22:48

to like get into the music industry.

22:51

I joined Goodhope I was under Chad

22:54

Raleigh learning how to play keys, Dr.

22:58

Chad Brawley . Right. And I

23:00

was like trying to learn how to play

23:02

the organ. And he was teaching me and I was

23:04

learning how, like, it was good hope

23:07

that took my musical

23:09

understanding to another level. Because before

23:12

that I could only play on one key,

23:14

which is the key a seat . And

23:16

then I remember, okay

23:18

, I heard about so high,

23:21

so high. They like read , read the key there

23:23

, but why do you take that high? Right

23:26

. And , and you know, I remember

23:28

it wasn't the first semester Taylor

23:31

burrows was there. We , uh, um,

23:34

Chad Brolly had like a tryout

23:36

for the church. I

23:38

came, Taylor told me about it. So I went

23:41

and um,

23:44

I played, it was like, Oh,

23:46

that's , that's nice. And he was like

23:49

, can you play this song? And

23:51

I think he started singing and

23:53

I'm over here trying to transpose to find the key.

23:55

So I'm pressing C and I'm present transpose

23:57

to find the key. He's like, what are you doing? You

24:00

know, Chad is like, what

24:02

, what are you doing? I was like, trying to find

24:04

the keys . Like he's got like dog ears

24:07

is like , he's like, nah,

24:11

he was like, no, no , no, no, no, no, no. Are

24:13

you telling me the only key United play on his ? See

24:16

as like, yes. He said, no , no, no,

24:18

no. I like

24:21

you have potential by needed to go back

24:23

and go practice all the other 12 keys, come

24:26

back to me. You know? And so

24:28

I did, I went, I went on YouTube. I was like, okay.

24:31

All right. So this is how it works. Okay. Here's

24:33

the number system. Okay. Because I

24:36

was watching them on Sundays and they're

24:38

talking numbers, they're playing and he's

24:40

like this. And

24:44

I'm like, what is , what are they, what are they saying? You

24:46

know? So I learned it and I was like,

24:48

Oh shoot, this is like another

24:51

tear because we're African songs is just the same

24:54

pepper rhythm, same chords . Almost

24:56

like CCM. No. And I was like, nah.

24:59

And so when I came to a good hope and

25:01

I start to learn the Baptist roots

25:03

of things, jazz R and B

25:05

blues, I was like, dang.

25:08

So this is what music is like. And

25:11

not that African music, wasn't good. But this is like,

25:14

this is what understanding

25:17

the possibilities of music is like, right.

25:20

Cause I still play African songs. But

25:22

now with the understanding of like jazz

25:25

and blues and Baptist, I'm able to like bring that

25:27

into African songs to make things

25:29

a little different, you know? And so,

25:32

so it doesn't always sound redundant or the same. Right.

25:35

But, but that is where I

25:37

got a lot of my music stuff

25:40

from. And even like I tell people before I

25:42

die, I wanna like do a thing called Temi

25:44

and friends where

25:46

I find a studio

25:49

with some friends, we make some songs, it

25:51

could be instrumentals , it could be friends singing.

25:54

And then I would design the cover, do the whole art

25:56

direction for it. Maybe do an exhibition

25:58

where each of the, each

26:01

of the songs has , uh , artwork

26:03

related to it. You know?

26:05

So I was like that, those are the

26:08

things that we gotta do that now, what

26:10

are we waiting for? I know. I

26:12

literally have, I

26:16

literally have no excuse. I just kept pushing it. But

26:18

I just always told people, like, I've always

26:20

thought about this Tammy and friends. Like, I don't

26:23

care about the money. I just want to be able to do something.

26:25

Like I would probably put it up on SoundCloud

26:28

or if I'm able to even put it on Spotify

26:31

or Apple music, like for free.

26:33

Like, I would love to

26:35

do that. Cause I , I have too many

26:38

musician friends to not do something like

26:40

this. Oh , it's crazy. Um,

26:44

so have you, have you ever wanted to give

26:46

up going this direction

26:49

of art if you ever wanted to give up? Yes.

26:54

Um, in fact , uh,

26:58

when I was teaching, I was like, man, I want to work

27:00

for myself, but I was shooting

27:02

weddings. I was known for weddings back then. And I was

27:04

like, if I quit, the only

27:07

way I'm going to make money to survive

27:09

is if I only shoot weddings. Right.

27:12

I haven't, I haven't, I haven't

27:14

been getting those bigger gigs . Um,

27:17

so I almost got on autopilot, so

27:19

I was just, just teaching

27:22

before you get to get into it. I forgot. I forgot.

27:24

We , we need to, so you left college and

27:27

then , uh , graduated

27:29

in digital media. He started working

27:33

at a school in Arlington? Uh, yes,

27:37

my old , my old high school. So my old

27:39

teachers are still there, which is crazy. Okay.

27:41

And what were you teaching? I

27:44

was teaching photography and design.

27:47

Okay. So then go

27:49

ahead . Yeah , I went, I went

27:51

back to teach because I wanted to inspire the younger generation

27:54

to let them know that it's possible to have this type

27:56

of thing as a career. Um, even

27:58

though I didn't fully have that as

28:00

a career because I was teaching, I wanted to

28:02

inspire them. Cause I was like, no one told me I could

28:05

do this in , um,

28:08

high school, you know? And so

28:11

I was teaching ninth through 12th and

28:14

it was, it was a lot

28:16

of fun. I got to talk to parents. I'm like, Oh

28:20

my mom does dad think I can have a career in

28:22

this? But I , we heard about your story and

28:24

I want to show them all of this stuff.

28:27

And I was able to talk to parents to convince

28:29

them, to let their kid like be in

28:31

my class. Um, but

28:34

yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun. It was very

28:36

rewarding. Teaching will teach

28:38

you teaching high

28:40

school kids or really teaching in general,

28:44

we'll teach you how you are towards God. And

28:49

I say that because as

28:51

a teacher, I had to

28:53

be patient, I

28:55

had to be loving. I

28:58

had to be attentive.

29:01

Um, and I could be all of these things to

29:03

the kids and they could still do something

29:05

wrong. Right. And it was just

29:08

like, it was like a mirror. I was like,

29:10

I don't remember why it hit me like that.

29:14

I was like, man, these kids are so starving . I

29:16

just felt, I was like, but

29:19

so are you, you

29:24

know, it just, it was,

29:26

it was crazy. And it was very humbling because

29:28

it's like now I was, I

29:30

was seeing these kids from

29:32

the lens of my relationship with God and

29:36

um, you know, cause, cause

29:38

you like invest in these kids, redraw

29:41

these things for them. And some of them just don't care yeah.

29:44

To keep and you have to keep

29:47

loving on them. And I continued to,

29:49

and then I think the last week

29:51

of the semester, the girl turned

29:53

around, you know , she came to

29:55

my class the next semester and she did

29:58

phenomenal.

29:59

It was just like, wow,

30:01

like God

30:04

was patient with me for

30:06

so long, you know?

30:09

And I finally,

30:13

you know , understood what was happening and

30:16

yeah,

30:16

It was, it was, it was very, it was a very

30:18

rewarding time in my career, probably

30:20

The top three times

30:22

in my life, man. So, so you

30:24

, so you're teaching

30:27

photography and art. You've

30:30

got this desire to work

30:34

for yourself , uh,

30:38

and not work for yourself for yourself. Say you've

30:40

got visitors, you've got desires . How did

30:42

you transition from teaching

30:46

art school to where you

30:48

are now? Just and what is that

30:50

evolution? Yeah. So

30:53

I taught for three, three years,

30:55

2015 to 2018, 2018

30:58

, um, or a few years

31:00

Prior to that, there was something called the Adobe creative

31:02

residency, which is like a whole year that

31:05

you get to just float ,

31:07

Focus on your work and

31:10

growing and not

31:12

have to worry about money because Adobe pays you.

31:14

And so it's like a free year to

31:17

just create whatever you want

31:19

and grow in your craft. And so

31:21

in 2018 they had an opening. I

31:23

applied , um, actually

31:26

I almost didn't apply, but my wife,

31:29

she was like apply. You literally

31:31

have nothing

31:32

To lose. If you don't get it, you continue to teach

31:34

if you get it.

31:36

You know? And so I,

31:39

I switched, I switched , uh, I mean, I,

31:42

I sent my application in that night.

31:45

Um, and initially

31:48

my application was about photography because

31:50

remember in 2016 I started the design

31:52

and this is 2018. And I was like, Hmm

31:55

,

31:55

Not too strong in design. I don't think

31:57

they're going to want that .

31:58

Yeah . Um, and when you say

32:00

design, what do you, what do you mean? So

32:03

like wow. Listeners. Yeah. So

32:05

There's different types of design. There's UI UX.

32:08

There are people who do logos of your people who do campaigns

32:10

.

32:11

There are people who like go

32:13

deep, deep into , um,

32:17

design as far as like the grid system

32:19

and composition of texts

32:21

and things like that. Um ,

32:23

And so for me, I was kind of like in a weird space,

32:25

cause I wasn't like fully, fully a designer,

32:28

but I wasn't like doing photography full

32:30

force

32:30

Time as well. I was

32:32

like doing

32:34

The pictures, but going into Photoshop and like manipulating

32:37

the images.

32:38

So think of when

32:40

you see an image of , of a person,

32:42

but let's say your hair is

32:44

like broccoli or, you

32:47

know, you changed your shirt color

32:49

or you add a pattern or errands to

32:51

their ears . So it's a different

32:53

type of design. But at the time I never

32:55

fully understood what I was doing. I just

32:57

knew that photography was up

32:59

here and I want that graphic design to be

33:03

there as well. And honestly, the reason

33:05

I did that was like, okay, if I want to apply

33:07

for a design job, I can leverage the salary

33:10

because I can do both. Right. And

33:13

so here's, here's the lesson

33:15

as well. I started this in 2016,

33:19

in 2018, I

33:23

applied to the residency and

33:29

I applied with

33:31

the idea of like photography. I was like, Oh,

33:33

I'm going to take pictures of

33:36

people in different countries, in

33:38

different cities and make presets

33:40

based off of like your environment.

33:42

Because I was tired of seeing

33:44

presets being sold outside, but only,

33:47

I mean, not outside presets being sold

33:49

online, but for

33:51

white people. And I was like, dang, black

33:54

people need presets, Hispanic

33:56

people need presets. Asian people

33:58

need presets for their skin

34:00

color , skin colors, skin

34:03

colors. So presets are like things that you can

34:05

do to edit an image. And it's just,

34:07

it's almost like a field like Instagram filter type

34:10

of thing. Um , so I wanted to make one

34:12

for each like culture and places that I've visited.

34:15

Um, and then eventually like get the presets out there

34:17

for people to use for free. And I was

34:19

like, Oh Tammy , that's

34:21

cute. But we

34:24

went to your website and we saw this

34:26

poster, the project you've been doing since

34:28

2016. And

34:31

we're curious if you can, repitch

34:33

your project to us about

34:35

how you can merge those two mediums

34:37

together. I

34:41

was like, what? I was like, I just started

34:43

this two years ago. Like, what do you, what

34:45

are you talking about? And

34:47

so, yeah, I had three, I had two days

34:49

to re-pitch it. And

34:53

um, I had to distribute

34:55

it and I did and sent

34:58

it on over, had an interview

35:01

over the phone. Then they flew me to San

35:03

Francisco for another interview. It

35:05

was a whole day thing from like nine to five with the

35:07

break at 12. So one hour

35:10

or 45 minutes for each person.

35:13

And um, yeah. Then around

35:15

may, no

35:18

around April, I got the call that I got the job,

35:20

but now the school year doesn't end till like June.

35:24

So I, so

35:27

I pleaded with them. I was like, yo, can I like,

35:30

can I I'll S I'll accept and I'll still

35:32

do it, but I

35:34

need to finish up the year. Cause I was like, I don't want to

35:36

leave kids like that. You know,

35:39

I want to finish up the year. Good. And

35:41

so my kids found out principal

35:44

found out , um,

35:48

got married in may,

35:50

May 5th, you know?

35:54

Um, and so yeah,

35:56

just got married, just got

35:58

the residency. I

36:00

mean my last two months of teaching. So

36:03

it was a whirlwind of a time at , uh,

36:05

at that time so much going on. Um,

36:08

but yeah, and so once I got, once I

36:10

got into residency , um,

36:13

started continue. I started

36:15

to continue making posters. So

36:17

I pitched to them. I was like, Hey, for

36:19

my , uh, for my project that I'm going to re

36:22

pitch to you guys. I want to merge

36:24

photography and graphic design together. And

36:27

, um, for

36:30

the next three months, I want to work on posters.

36:32

The next three months, I want to work on fashion.

36:35

The next three months, I want to work on album covers.

36:37

And the next three months I want to work on sports. So

36:39

for a whole year I was able to split it these three

36:41

months, I'm going to do this stuff. Um,

36:43

and that's because I wanted to show people and

36:46

also have like enough work in my

36:48

portfolio to show that I

36:50

can do stuff in the fashion industry, in the sports

36:52

industry and the music industry. So,

36:56

and it's , it's something you said earlier,

36:58

and I just want you to elaborate. You were doing posters

37:00

, uh, on Instagram,

37:03

what's a poster. And

37:05

what was the project that you were doing? Yeah.

37:08

So when you, when I say

37:10

posters, I I'm alluding

37:12

to like, you know, back in the nineties,

37:14

when you have posters of like, all

37:18

right, Carrie , Michael, Jordan

37:20

donkey , all those things. And

37:23

it would just be, it would just be sitting in your room,

37:25

right? You will have all these positive, all of these famous

37:28

celebrities and stuff like that, or magazine

37:32

covers and whatnot. Um, that's

37:34

what I mean by poster. And so , um,

37:37

I was just making, I was just making something

37:40

on eight by 10 size

37:42

and posting it on Instagram or square size at

37:44

the time. And I

37:47

was just sharing it. It was just different ideas that came up.

37:49

I was like, okay, today I'm going to make this today.

37:51

I'm going to make this. And ideas

37:53

just kept coming. And it

37:55

wasn't about perfection

37:58

was about growth. So I was like, if

38:00

I make something bad today, it don't matter.

38:03

Tomorrow is going to come. If tomorrow

38:06

comes, I'm going to make something else. You

38:08

know? So, but I was scared to post

38:10

it because I was known for , uh

38:13

, photography. And so

38:15

when I posted it , yeah,

38:17

I had to drop the pride and just be like, look, I'm

38:19

proud of this. If y'all , don't like

38:21

it, well, the unfollow button is on

38:23

my profile. You know, like I'm

38:25

evolving. I was scared. Like it's not , it's

38:28

not, it wasn't that easy. Like I, I

38:30

would post one and then on day 10

38:32

I would post another one, but I would post like five

38:34

images in between to kind of

38:36

clean it up, you know? Um,

38:40

so, so

38:42

yeah, I was like, you know what, likes

38:45

don't pay the bills. You know? And

38:47

I , I I've started to, I've started

38:50

to understand that. Not like I,

38:53

yeah, I just likes

38:56

can become a drug. And

38:58

if you're not careful, you can become a slave

39:01

to your followers and you

39:03

start posting things that you think they would like

39:05

versus what you like. Right. And

39:08

so , um, I was,

39:10

I was struggling with that and I still do sometimes

39:12

like yesterday, yeah.

39:15

Yesterday I just posted like my first 3d

39:17

thing, you know? And

39:20

it didn't do as good on the feed as other

39:22

works that I've done. But I was like, yo, look,

39:24

I'm proud of this. Y'all going to see this

39:26

today. You know? Um,

39:29

but I would be lying to you if I said like, sometimes

39:31

it doesn't like, make me like, dang, maybe

39:34

I shouldn't do 3d because this is kind

39:36

of where I am, but I'm

39:38

like, I had the same issue, but

39:41

I evolved, you know? And so

39:43

I'm in this point where I'm like, look, I'm

39:45

going to evolve. I'm not, I'm not going

39:48

to post 3d every day. Cause I'm

39:50

not doing 3d every day. But

39:52

if I make something in 3d that I love,

39:55

I'm going to share it. You know, because

39:57

I want to document this journey as well. Because

39:59

a year from now, what I made today, I'm

40:03

going to look at it and be like, that was, I was

40:06

trashed . That was a little 3d

40:08

animation thing, you know? So yeah.

40:17

Well , I want to give you do

40:19

some lightning round questions, some life there

40:21

before we get back into the deep stuff. A

40:24

scale of one to 10. How good

40:26

are you at keeping secrets? Uh,

40:31

I would say an eight. I

40:33

would say an eight. Okay. Ariel

40:37

or Jasmine area.

40:42

Okay. First celebrity

40:44

crush. Ooh.

40:47

I forgot her name, but there was a show called

40:49

Sandy, Sandy

40:52

crook or Sandy hook. Ah,

40:55

I forgot the name. I

40:57

forgot her name, but she was like,

40:59

I'm talking, I'll watch the show.

41:02

Once the show is over, I go outside and I just

41:04

think like, what is she doing right now? Like

41:08

you see even thinking of me, I

41:12

hear you. All right.

41:14

Dawn or dusk. Oh

41:18

, Don or the photographer? Don? No,

41:21

dusk. I only waking up early normal

41:23

. Okay. Does , uh,

41:26

if you could travel back in time, what

41:29

period would you go to? Ooh

41:32

, I go, I'll go to like the eighties.

41:39

I think I

41:41

always, I always, I always think

41:43

about the style back then. Like how

41:46

unapologetic black people were the

41:48

eighties in the nineties, it's hard to pick, but

41:51

It was in a nice house. And then , so I don't really remember

41:53

what in the nice was like

41:54

In America. Um, but

41:57

yeah, I'll probably

41:58

Eighties or nineties just because of the style.

42:01

Um , I think this school was big back then.

42:03

I know the nineties R and B was,

42:06

But I think people

42:08

express it

42:09

And themselves black people expressing themselves with

42:11

something that I

42:13

Really, really admired. And it was some of the

42:15

styles that I do on my work. Like you

42:18

see them with the box you see now with the Afro,

42:20

you know? Yeah. Those are, those are things

42:23

that I have loved because it was just

42:25

a way to express ourselves. Do you

42:27

snore? Oh , my

42:29

wife

42:29

Told me I do. Yeah. I, I thought

42:31

I never did until I got married.

42:35

Listen, join the club. Well

42:37

, I've joined the club. How about that? A

42:41

place you most want to travel?

42:45

Um, Greece, censor Rini , and

42:48

to Rini. Rick Ross got a song

42:50

called Santa Rini .

42:52

That's exactly why I never knew about

42:54

That place. He says, okay

42:56

. Favorite junk food bread.

43:00

What do you mean? Well , I

43:02

, I know your favorite food for

43:04

a host for a whole summer . I

43:06

was trying to buy you food and you're

43:09

like

43:11

Pizza . Just give me some bread. What she's doing. Talk about

43:13

that

43:14

Bread . Hawaiian bread, bro. In

43:17

college, those a Walmart,

43:19

not too far from U of H I would go

43:22

there and I got Hawaiian bread. I got the,

43:24

I got the 12th , the 12th pack. By

43:26

the time I got back to the crib, it

43:28

was done. So every time

43:31

I went to Walmart, I always got to

43:33

right now for the car, one

43:37

for the house, which the last like

43:39

three days or sometimes two days

43:41

or less with crazy.

43:45

Um, favorite childhood TV show?

43:49

Um, Martin. Martin.

43:52

Okay. Uh, your

43:54

favorite season of spring,

43:57

summer, winter fall, spring, summer,

43:59

fall, winter high . I'd

44:01

probably say spring. Um,

44:05

yeah, I think

44:07

I love the flowers that bloom the

44:09

grass

44:11

It's like life comes back, you

44:13

know, summer is cute, but it's too

44:16

hot. This is

44:18

how it is. Hey , especially in Texas, then

44:20

I have dreads. God bless man.

44:24

Uh, how to dress coming along. Good.

44:27

You know,

44:28

I think there's a symbolism with my locks.

44:31

You know, I,

44:34

I asked them for Tina out December,

44:38

2015, December 12th, 10

44:40

days later, December

44:42

22nd, 2015, I got locks. I started my locks and

44:45

I had like, it was look,

44:48

all I'm gonna say is if I was at 13 , I would

44:50

have left myself if

44:54

I had a box and then I got, I got a little

44:56

like curl coils. It looks

44:58

like little maggots . And she stuck

45:00

with me through all of that. And so now this

45:02

is, this is going to be six

45:04

years in December. Wow. Yeah,

45:08

it marks like how long we've been dating.

45:11

It's been six years. Wow. Um

45:15

, uh,

45:19

I know you didn't celebrate Halloween. I'm not even

45:21

going to ask you that cake or pot cake.

45:25

Okay . Go for sure. And

45:27

do you post inspirational quotes

45:29

on social media? I

45:32

used to, I stopped. I

45:34

don't know. I, I, yeah,

45:38

I, I stopped unless there's something that

45:40

is like deep and probably applies

45:42

to me. I just, I don't want

45:44

to , I , I, yeah, I just don't want to be those. I

45:47

think, I don't

45:49

know. I feel like there's a lot of hypocrisy

45:52

in people who just post inspirational

45:54

quotes because it's like, are you

45:56

living what you're saying? You

45:59

know, so for me, like if it's,

46:01

if it's something that speaks to me, I'll

46:03

share it. Cause I know it's

46:06

convicting me or it's deep

46:09

to me. Um, and I'll share

46:11

it. I don't, I, I don't . Yeah. Cause some

46:13

people will be like very , uh,

46:17

there'll be shooting shots at people on for the

46:19

sake of inspirational quotes. You

46:22

know what I'm saying? Yeah.

46:25

No , like they've got things to say

46:27

things on their chest. It's

46:30

a sub sweetens. Yeah,

46:32

exactly. And it not

46:34

really lifted anybody. Well, not

46:37

lifting most people up. It's really not

46:40

exactly. You're trying to vent, but you're scared

46:42

to actually say what you mean. So you're going

46:44

to hide behind it .

46:46

Yeah . Uh,

46:51

what , what does family mean to you?

46:54

Ooh, good question. Um,

46:58

I think, cause I want to talk about family

47:00

and colleagues . Uh, so what does it mean to you?

47:02

Sorry about that. Yeah, no, you're good.

47:05

Um, yeah, family is all about

47:09

like, I

47:11

really think connection, I

47:14

think love. And when I say love,

47:16

I mean like the love that is

47:18

long suffering, you know, I

47:20

think the love that speaks

47:22

truth. Uh, even

47:24

though it might hurt

47:26

the other person. Um, I

47:29

think if you're a

47:31

family you're not fighting. I don't know if you

47:33

really are our family , you know,

47:36

they , there , there has to be, there's

47:39

going to be tension. And I think what makes

47:41

the family bond stronger is like what we do in those

47:43

times. Do

47:46

we shut down the other person or do we listen

47:48

and share our own views? Can we

47:51

agree to disagree and still be family?

47:54

You know? Cause I think for

47:57

some people, family are the people that say

47:59

yes to them. Family

48:01

are the people that , um,

48:05

don't confront them.

48:09

Um, and again, I'm speaking for myself

48:12

because I've been through stuff where I'm like, look, I

48:16

don't know if that's your tribe, you know? And that's why I

48:18

like the word tribe, you know ? Cause I , I

48:20

think, I think tribe is like, people

48:25

are there for

48:27

the good, bad and the ugly and

48:29

they're there for , to

48:31

see you evolve as well. You know? And

48:35

um, and they'll call you out on your BS. You know,

48:38

like I remember when I was,

48:40

when I was first like guaranteed the gospel and

48:42

I was , uh, putting

48:45

stuff, inspirational quotes again on

48:48

Facebook, Chad

48:50

called me out. Cause I was like, tell

48:52

people like give it like the Christ, don't

48:54

go to , uh, Oh you go to hell. And he was

48:56

like, Tammy, I don't think this is

48:58

the right way of going about spreading the love of

49:00

Jesus. You're scaring people like

49:02

, like, like you've even said , uh,

49:05

some people come into Christianity for fire insurance.

49:09

I will never forget that color . And it's like, dang.

49:12

Yeah, I don't, I don't want people to come to

49:14

know Jesus because of that. When we come to know Jesus

49:16

because of who he is and what he's done, you

49:18

know? So yeah. I th I think family

49:21

is going to be fights, but it's all about what

49:23

happens in those moments. And it's all about

49:26

telling the truth and love and

49:28

just being present. Is

49:31

, is family part of

49:33

your calling or is it separate

49:36

to , you know, Ooh

49:39

, that's tough.

49:42

It's tough to say because I've been through so much,

49:44

I've been through so much hurt even

49:46

within family that,

49:49

and this is like people that you trusted with your life

49:51

and , um, stuff

49:54

like that. But I think , um,

50:01

I , I think knowing that I am

50:03

inducted in God's family has

50:07

been enough reinsurance and enough healing

50:09

for me to be okay.

50:12

Even if quote unquote

50:14

family here with

50:17

some people doesn't

50:19

feel like family, if that makes sense.

50:22

Oh , I gotcha . Uh,

50:25

do you, do you sometimes that tension

50:28

of, and I'm sure you

50:30

we've talked about it, a

50:33

S do you sometimes feel that tension of

50:36

your calling and, and

50:39

your family, the things you, you

50:41

know, God has called you to do, and then sometimes

50:45

family might not always be on board or they

50:48

might not understand, or what have you, but

50:50

you do sometimes feel that tension. Yeah,

50:53

I do. You know, like , um,

50:59

yeah, I , I D I do feel the tension,

51:02

but you know, again, it just goes back to like,

51:06

I know what I know what God

51:08

has called me to do. And

51:11

the thing that I keep telling people, Hey , it actually

51:13

hit me after this Oscar Stina was like,

51:16

obedience got me here. You

51:19

know, it wasn't, it

51:22

wasn't like my work. I don't know if that makes sense

51:25

to some people like those,

51:29

those steps that God

51:33

allowed me to take brought

51:35

me here. Like God was in the details

51:37

this whole time, you know?

51:40

And you know,

51:42

and it's like, I never knew it. I never,

51:46

I never really like

51:48

looking back now , like duh, all

51:51

of this times. And,

51:53

you know, it was just like, Oh , the decisions

51:55

I've had to make, like, what

51:59

was in the details. Like even this freelance thing,

52:01

after my residency, I had three

52:03

job offers and I

52:05

said no to all of them. And I was like, God, I don't

52:07

know what I'm doing. Like, why did I just

52:09

do that? Like, I remember the first one

52:11

I went to work at this place so bad, but

52:14

I told them no. And I remember the

52:16

call after

52:18

the call. I was just looking at the wall for an hour. Like

52:23

my team , this is it. This

52:26

was like an opportunity that you just

52:28

turned down. And we

52:31

know when my wife was supportive,

52:33

I just, I , I didn't know. I didn't

52:35

know what to do. And I think like, there's

52:37

always been that tension even now of like, okay

52:41

, uh , life

52:43

has been very successful. What is it going

52:45

to stop? You

52:47

know? Um, cause

52:50

I'm like, God, this, like, this

52:52

is too good to be true. Like, let me know

52:55

when you're going to put the brakes on

52:57

me, you know? Um,

52:59

and I don't know if it's a good mindset, but it's just something

53:02

that I know I've struggled with. And

53:04

being an immigrant, coming to America, like seeing

53:07

our parents have to use credit cards and

53:09

stuff like that. I was like, I never want to be in that position.

53:12

And so I started saving money,

53:16

but even now with

53:18

all the jobs that I'm getting, like,

53:21

yes, we have a house, but part of me is like, okay, how

53:23

can we save like 80 of our income

53:26

just in case the work stops,

53:29

you know ? But I have a wife and she's

53:31

like, you're dumb. We're

53:33

not doing that. Just like God

53:35

blessed you. And

53:37

you're allowed to enjoy

53:40

the blessing. And I was like,

53:42

yeah, but I want to save some of it for later,

53:44

just in case the blessing stops. Yeah

53:46

. You know, and it's kind of like this

53:48

poverty mindset and

53:51

I probably take it to extremes at times of like

53:53

over saving. Um,

53:57

but yeah, cause I remember like last year we were what

54:00

, the year before, like I was like , okay,

54:02

we have like, if

54:05

I don't want to work for , for the next four months,

54:07

we're good. You know, but I was

54:09

like, Oh nah, I don't like that.

54:12

That's only four months. I got to get like 20 years.

54:15

No , I got to have enough money to where we can be good for 20

54:17

years then I'll relax. So yeah,

54:20

no, that's crazy that there

54:22

, that feeling of , uh , man,

54:26

the bottom is gonna fall out. When is that

54:28

going to happen? Yeah. No, I think

54:30

we all all have a sense

54:33

of man. This stuff is

54:35

finite. It could fly , it could go any

54:37

moment, you know, mindset

54:40

can change. Technology can change.

54:43

Uh , we have a sickness that, that

54:45

takes us out. Right ? Yeah

54:47

, no, I , I understand

54:49

that feeling in that pressure. Um,

54:52

and so I wanted to , uh,

54:54

as we round the bend here and just

54:56

talk about your evolution as

54:59

an artist , uh, and

55:01

as an artist who, who is called,

55:04

how would you describe your artistic

55:07

style? What would you

55:10

now even it's

55:13

been an evolution, but how would you describe

55:15

it? Yeah, I, you know,

55:18

first of all, I would say it's black.

55:21

You know, I told

55:23

you , I think black is a beautiful canvas. That's

55:26

a whole nother story, but , um,

55:29

but it's black. Wait, what do you mean by that? Black

55:31

is a beautiful canvas . Um,

55:34

so a lot of the work that I do revolves

55:36

around black people and the people

55:39

in our communities and , um,

55:42

it's that, that, that might

55:44

be my next exhibition. Ooh, that's

55:46

a nice title. Um,

55:49

but , um, but

55:52

yeah, no, I think that

55:56

the work that I do revolves

55:59

around blackness and revolves around

56:02

uplifting people in our community that look like

56:05

me because I want them to see themselves in

56:07

my work because I think representation

56:09

matters. And I think if they see themselves in a way

56:12

that is just like, that can

56:14

be me. Like I can look this good,

56:16

like my skin color is this beautiful.

56:18

Like I

56:21

loved that, you know, I , I, a man

56:24

DME this week and was like, I just put my,

56:26

my young daughter and my, his daughter is black.

56:28

I put my black , my young daughter on your work

56:31

and she's inspired. Like she sees herself

56:33

in it and I'm like, that's what it's

56:35

all about. Like, I don't like,

56:38

yes, these gigs and stuff are good,

56:40

but for me, it's like, I

56:42

want to inspire a generation to

56:45

see themselves in a way that they've probably never seen

56:47

themselves before, but also create work

56:49

that is timeless create work

56:52

that, you know, if I pass

56:55

people can still see

56:57

that work and remember and

57:01

feel what I was feeling when I made it, you

57:03

know, like it's always been about wanting people to feel

57:05

something. One of my work does spark conversation

57:07

about justice. Uh , one of my work

57:10

does spark conversation about the

57:12

beauty of our skin, you know, in

57:14

Nigeria they saw a lot of bleaching creams and I remember

57:17

coming to America was very , um,

57:20

I wasn't really happy with the skin that I was in. I remember

57:22

when I got a spine and I was trying to scrub

57:24

off the dirt, you know, on my skin.

57:27

And so now making these posters,

57:30

it's like a reminder to myself that

57:32

again, black is a beautiful canvas. I'm not a mistake.

57:36

And you know, when you think

57:38

of like color and how

57:40

color adds on black canvas,

57:43

it's brighter, it's vibrant, it's

57:46

um , captivating. And so , um,

57:50

yeah, I, I think, I think my work just

57:52

depicts, you know , my Nigerian culture

57:54

of the vibrancy of our culture and

57:56

the attires and the stuff that we

57:59

wear. Um, but

58:01

also modernizing

58:03

it in a way that , um,

58:06

reflects the times that we're in, you

58:08

know? Um, and

58:11

yeah, and I, I just want my work to be like

58:14

timeless. Like someone, I look up to his cane de

58:16

Wiley , like his work is in so many museums.

58:20

Um, and it's timeless. Like you have,

58:23

you have a rapper sitting on the horse, wearing

58:26

his wearing Nike's pants,

58:28

sagging, a snapback

58:31

puff, jacket, Aries , you

58:33

know what I'm saying? Like that's timeless. And

58:35

so I want to create work in my style

58:37

that kind of exude that same feeling. Uh,

58:43

you know, we , we talked about the already

58:46

probably talked about the evolution

58:48

of your style. You have some work

58:51

that is being exhibited

58:55

on the

58:58

Apple TV page.

59:00

You have that same work as being exhibited

59:04

at the Oscars this

59:06

year. And , uh,

59:10

there's something I think

59:13

that I can recognize

59:16

your work. There's a sense

59:18

of joy that

59:20

I feel when I see your work.

59:23

It is very distinctly

59:28

black. And when I say black, the diaspora,

59:31

because I think people don't realize there's

59:33

black people all over, over

59:36

speaking, all different speaking,

59:39

different languages, all over the place.

59:41

And so there's, there's this field

59:43

of the diaspora , uh

59:46

, that is in your work. There's this feel

59:49

of joy

59:51

or celebration in your work? Uh,

59:55

man, where did you get that from? And, and,

59:57

and, and if you would, if you

59:59

see that in your work , uh , you know, cause I'm , I'm

1:00:02

just somebody who observes it, you see that

1:00:04

in a work van , where do you get that from

1:00:06

? You know, it's,

1:00:11

it's all experimental,

1:00:13

right? I I'm

1:00:15

the kind of person like you gave me a tool and I say, okay,

1:00:18

that's cute, but how can I use it for something

1:00:20

else? And so that is

1:00:22

like, I feel like that's my super power

1:00:24

, like a lot of the styles and stuff that

1:00:28

I show my work. A lot

1:00:30

of them have been accidents. Like I use

1:00:32

shapes because I can't draw. And

1:00:34

I was very, I was very upset about

1:00:36

that. You know ? Like,

1:00:39

like people think it's deep, but it's really not

1:00:41

super like, Oh Tammy, when did you start? What

1:00:44

are these shapes? Where do they come from? I was like

1:00:46

, um , well, I tried

1:00:48

to draw and I suck . So I just use shapes.

1:00:51

You see , you know , and it's an underwhelming

1:00:54

answer, but it's like, that's

1:00:56

literally what happened. And

1:00:58

I remember when I started using shapes, it

1:01:01

was 3:00 AM in the morning I

1:01:03

was playing switch with my friend in Marfa, Texas.

1:01:05

I had a workshop that was teaching them than at 10:00

1:01:08

AM. We were playing super smash

1:01:11

is now three o'clock. I'm like, bro, I have a workshop

1:01:13

tomorrow. I got to figure out what I'm going to teach. So

1:01:15

I get on my computer, I'm teaching

1:01:18

to teach photography and design. So I was like, okay,

1:01:21

I can't draw. But in design there are elements

1:01:23

of color, the elements of composition, there

1:01:25

are elements of shapes. I

1:01:28

was like , okay, how can I bring a shape into a portrait?

1:01:31

And that was how that whole style started

1:01:34

a beautiful, beautiful mistake, you

1:01:36

know? And , um, even

1:01:39

a lot of the other styles and things that I'm

1:01:42

doing. Like I watch videos. I learn , I see how they

1:01:44

do. And I'm like, okay, cool. What

1:01:47

are ways that I can do it in my own way to

1:01:49

express something else? And so that's

1:01:51

kind of like being my mindset. Um,

1:01:54

and I love trying new things like

1:01:56

right now I'm , um , in 3d and

1:01:58

I'm trying to learn 3d, seeing how I

1:02:00

can apply it to my work. Um,

1:02:04

and then, you know, eventually get into animation.

1:02:06

I don't know , what's next. Maybe I'll go back to learn how

1:02:09

to draw, you know, but I

1:02:11

just want to evolve

1:02:14

so that in the future, there

1:02:16

are many different outlets of things that I can

1:02:18

do a

1:02:23

round in the bin . How does the market

1:02:26

dictate what you do or

1:02:29

does it honestly,

1:02:32

it does not. Um,

1:02:34

right now there's this whole like NFT

1:02:37

stuff that's going around. Um,

1:02:40

I love [inaudible]

1:02:42

. Yeah, I know . And that is non fungible token. Um, it's a way to verify our work in the blockchain and to verify the owner. So really when people bid on NFTs, they're not really buying the work, but they're buying their certificate of ownership of that work to be able to display it , um, later. Um,

1:03:06

but NFTs can be crazy because

1:03:08

it can go into like musicians

1:03:12

putting stuff on the NFT market. And

1:03:14

the bit, whoever wins gets like

1:03:17

a lifetime access to all of their shows,

1:03:20

you know, or a link to

1:03:22

different types of merch , stuff like that.

1:03:25

So , um, it's a whole big

1:03:27

thing, but people

1:03:30

, um , are

1:03:35

flocking to it for the wrong reasons. Right.

1:03:38

And so they're almost in a way begging people

1:03:40

to buy their work. And

1:03:43

some people are starting to like live off of just NFTs.

1:03:46

And it's like, I don't know if it's sustainable

1:03:49

because not every cause you kind of need a following.

1:03:52

You kind of need to also have the right

1:03:54

people looking and you have to self promote yourself a

1:03:56

lot. And I'm not, I'm

1:03:58

not, yeah. I'm not that type of person. I'm like, I'm

1:04:01

sorry, I'm not gonna beg you to buy my work.

1:04:04

You know what I'm saying? And it might be. Yeah

1:04:07

. And it might be a privilege saying that because

1:04:09

of where I'm at in my career. But honestly I'm

1:04:11

just like I,

1:04:15

to me, I'm going to put stuff. I've

1:04:17

already sold two pieces and they sold

1:04:20

fast and I'm grateful for it, but

1:04:22

I'm also like, I'm just going

1:04:24

to drop an NFC when I want to, like,

1:04:27

I'm not going to become a slave to this thing. Cause

1:04:30

I , I saw people who

1:04:32

, uh , who have amazing work, amazing following

1:04:34

all of that stuff. They put their stuff on the market.

1:04:37

It doesn't sell for what they thought it

1:04:39

would sell for. And then they get mad and I'm

1:04:41

like, but your thing's still sold

1:04:44

for $2,000. No

1:04:47

one is going to buy your print for $2,000

1:04:49

in real life. Right . Right. So you

1:04:51

see, they're still complaining. And so I'm just like, yo,

1:04:54

and then people are complaining like , cause the thing did not

1:04:56

sell for one Ethereum. And right now one

1:04:58

at theorem is $2,200.

1:05:01

Yeah. And it's like, even

1:05:04

if you sell your thing for 0.5, you're

1:05:06

still making $1,100, you

1:05:08

know, but people don't, people are feeling like, Oh, that's

1:05:10

too small, you know? And it's just, yeah.

1:05:14

You know , it's just this thing and I don't want

1:05:16

to get sucked into it. So, but

1:05:18

uh , a friend of mine tapped happy to like help design

1:05:22

some stuff for , um, an NFC

1:05:24

for DJ premiere . And so

1:05:26

he's dropping his , uh, in five days.

1:05:28

So that's going to be a huge thing. Yeah.

1:05:31

But I saw the DJ

1:05:34

premier DJ program for those of you who

1:05:37

don't know, gee , there's an

1:05:39

old G producer,

1:05:41

one of the founding producers

1:05:44

of hip hop or at least popular hip

1:05:46

hop on the East coast. That

1:05:48

is Ashley from Houston, but

1:05:51

uh , is yeah

1:05:53

. Yeah. Fifth ward , uh,

1:05:55

but is instrumental in

1:05:57

the whole East coast sound like

1:06:00

when people say boom bap , they're

1:06:03

really going back to like his

1:06:05

drum patterns and what he,

1:06:07

he, he started. Right. And so

1:06:10

that's big that you are,

1:06:13

you have an opportunity to work

1:06:16

with him and produce , uh,

1:06:18

pieces that would , uh, or

1:06:20

go on the open market. Um, thank

1:06:24

you . I want

1:06:26

to close with this question. How

1:06:29

do you believe your faith informs

1:06:32

your work? Yeah,

1:06:37

so I

1:06:40

think that my

1:06:43

faith plates plays a very big

1:06:45

part of my work because I think there,

1:06:49

there are things I want people to feel when they see

1:06:52

my work. Right. And my work has

1:06:54

needed to take me to places that I never dreamed

1:06:56

of. And because

1:06:58

of that, it's kind of given me an open door

1:07:00

to speak about my faith openly. Um,

1:07:04

you know, when people ask where I gain inspiration from like,

1:07:06

literally I'm

1:07:09

looking outside right now and I see a coral

1:07:13

flower planting

1:07:17

and I already have an idea of

1:07:19

a poster that I want to make using that my

1:07:22

God has created this

1:07:24

earth in such a way that

1:07:27

you sh you shouldn't be out

1:07:29

of inspiration. You can't,

1:07:31

if you are then you're probably

1:07:34

one either burnt out, which is okay, you

1:07:36

know, go to sleep, watch TV, enjoy yourself.

1:07:39

Um, or two , you just don't want to see

1:07:41

it. And so even with

1:07:43

me using black people, like it goes

1:07:45

back to that in Malaga Imago, DEI of

1:07:48

many , the image of God and , um

1:07:51

, trying to continue to affirm

1:07:53

, um, our place in this earth, you know?

1:07:55

And , um, I

1:08:00

think also my , my faith has played a part

1:08:02

in just how I approach

1:08:05

people and how I interact with

1:08:07

people who love my work. Right.

1:08:09

I remember when I started getting

1:08:11

a lot more followers, my work was getting seen by

1:08:13

a lot of people. My prayer

1:08:15

to God was like, God, I

1:08:18

don't want to take the shine

1:08:20

from you. Like I

1:08:23

want to continue

1:08:25

to have my, my work and my success

1:08:28

point back to you, you know? Yes. There's a

1:08:30

lot more money coming in now. And I

1:08:32

plan to a point where

1:08:33

Like, before I started calculating, like how much

1:08:36

goes into taxes, how much we pay ourselves,

1:08:38

how much my agents ,

1:08:40

I just like take a moment to just

1:08:42

thank God. Like, God, you didn't have to

1:08:44

do this. Like, you didn't

1:08:46

have to send the Oscars. You didn't have to send

1:08:48

Adobe or Apple, but you did. And

1:08:50

I'm grateful. Um, and

1:08:53

it is allowed I

1:08:56

think,

1:08:56

Because it's , it's humbled me in a way, because I know that

1:08:58

this can be taken from me

1:09:00

Any time, you

1:09:02

know? And I'm not

1:09:04

perfect. You know, there , since

1:09:06

that, I also struggle with in it, God

1:09:08

has still been fateful in

1:09:11

spite my moments

1:09:14

of unfaithfulness, you

1:09:16

know? Um, and

1:09:18

even on that , I noticed that in my, in

1:09:20

my, in my past, growing up,

1:09:22

you know , um, and like,

1:09:26

God can deny himself. I

1:09:28

forget what, what it says. Then the Bible I remember reading.

1:09:30

And I was like, Ooh,

1:09:33

you know? And it's like, if God has called me

1:09:35

to his family and I am

1:09:38

in him and it can deny himself,

1:09:41

you know, like right

1:09:44

there , right. Like

1:09:46

It's like, there's nothing. And it goes back to Colin

1:09:48

. There's nothing you can do

1:09:49

That would take you out

1:09:51

of what God has for you. Literally nothing,

1:09:54

you know? Yes. He gives free will. Yes.

1:09:58

He gives free will, but it's like, God

1:10:02

is still in the details. You

1:10:04

know what I'm saying? Um, and it's,

1:10:06

he's gracious enough to even give us the free

1:10:09

will you know what I'm saying? And so,

1:10:11

yeah, like I, if

1:10:14

you would have told me, I would have gotten a house

1:10:16

in the pandemic, you

1:10:19

know, I would've just laughed at you, you

1:10:21

know? And we

1:10:24

, we have a house. I

1:10:26

was working for myself when we got the house, there

1:10:29

was a whole bunch of tax stuff. They

1:10:31

wanted

1:10:31

To see how much money we had the beginning

1:10:33

of

1:10:33

The year , um, during

1:10:36

the application process and a week

1:10:38

before we closed on the house and

1:10:41

thank God there

1:10:43

was work coming in. Wow. You

1:10:45

know, and again, it goes back to like, God

1:10:48

was in the

1:10:48

Details. And now my wife left her job in October.

1:10:51

And now we do this boat full time and

1:10:57

it's been amazing. And it it's

1:10:59

allowed us to like help bless other people.

1:11:02

We're in a space now where God has been gracious

1:11:04

to us. And we just want to be able to pass

1:11:07

that love to

1:11:09

other people

1:11:09

And bless other people. Like he has been a blessing to

1:11:12

us. Um,

1:11:14

And yeah. You know, but you know, I still struggle

1:11:16

with that myself. Like, man, this

1:11:20

could go away. You know, like I told you

1:11:22

may is probably like a pretty chill month,

1:11:24

which I haven't had. And

1:11:28

part of me is like, man, God,

1:11:31

what's going to happen in June. Like, am

1:11:33

I going to get some work? And as I was

1:11:35

saying, all of this doc two emails yesterday

1:11:39

from two, two big companies and

1:11:42

they want to talk about potential work and I'm like,

1:11:46

okay, I need to stop complaining. You

1:11:48

know, because in my life God's

1:11:50

track record is like,

1:11:53

it's 100 to zero, you

1:11:55

know, but yet I still have this

1:11:58

fear at times of like, Oh,

1:12:01

well it's going to stop soon.

1:12:03

Or maybe

1:12:06

this is going to be a nice run for the next two

1:12:08

years. What's going to happen after, you know?

1:12:10

And so I have to check my chances sometimes of like,

1:12:13

am I doing 3d so that I can like try

1:12:16

to secure my spot in this

1:12:18

creative community or learn how to

1:12:20

draw, to secure my spot. So

1:12:22

then somebody that just doesn't come and take

1:12:24

over, you know? So those are

1:12:26

the things that I've had to like question myself with

1:12:28

and make sure that my reason

1:12:31

for doing stuff is a

1:12:33

good reason. Awesome.

1:12:38

Uh, thank you so much for joining

1:12:40

me. Um , thank you for having me.

1:12:42

I , I think it's like this, like the only podcast

1:12:45

that I've done where people can really

1:12:47

get an insight in like my

1:12:50

life, life, cause you were there everyone

1:12:52

else I have to like kind of skip over some of the

1:12:54

details. No

1:12:58

, this, this was amazing time, man. I

1:13:00

, uh, I appreciate

1:13:02

the, the

1:13:05

desire to come on. And man, what you shared

1:13:07

I think is going to bless so

1:13:09

many people and uh, we

1:13:11

got to do this again for sure.

1:13:14

Sometime in the very near future.

1:13:16

So again, thank you Tammy. Of

1:13:19

course . Thank you for having me.