0:06

Hello , this is Kingston Live . I

0:09

am Johnny San , I'm Riley DeBoer and

0:11

we have with us from the wilderness Jonas

0:14

Lewis , anthony , hello , and Nicholas

0:16

Lennox Howdy . Thanks for having us . Well

0:19

, welcome back . Yeah , it's been

0:21

a while . I'm trying to remember the last time . Like I remember

0:23

the last time . What was it like three years ago ? It

0:25

was summer 2020 .

0:26

Yeah , I was in Skeleton Park because

0:29

COVID was still rife on big old lawn

0:31

chairs and talked about our last album

0:33

.

0:33

That was a good time .

0:34

That was a great time .

0:35

I like the outdoor podcast . We can't do it right

0:38

now because it's winter , it's very cold , but yeah .

0:40

I mean , it's barely winter . It's like climate

0:43

change . It's the last winter , guys

0:45

, yeah .

0:46

Enjoy it while you can , because next winter will be fire

0:48

.

0:50

We've got a new album . Yes , these strangers

0:52

I used to love . Yeah , let's

0:54

talk about the first single , the title track .

0:56

So I'm from the UK . I'm

0:58

sure I've mentioned that before Once or twice

1:00

, not that I've made

1:03

it my entire identity or personality

1:05

or whatever , but yeah . So during

1:07

COVID , I didn't go home for two

1:09

and a half maybe more

1:11

years and I got to go home for the first time

1:13

in July of 2022

1:15

. And I took my girlfriend with me and

1:17

it was my sister's wedding and my mom's 60th birthday

1:20

party . So I was so

1:22

like just sick to

1:24

my stomach , homesick during COVID , like

1:26

I'd never experienced homesickness like that before . I

1:28

think it was probably because the

1:30

option to go home was always there and

1:33

then when it was taken away during

1:36

COVID , it was just like I

1:38

can't really describe how homesick I was . So

1:41

, leading up to this trip , I had this sort of

1:43

like rose tinted

1:45

color glasses , view and

1:47

memory of the place that I grew up and

1:50

I was so excited to go home . Don't

1:52

get me wrong I had the best time . It was just so

1:54

great to be home and so wonderful . But it was

1:56

distinctly very

1:58

different from how I remembered it because

2:00

, a it had been two

2:02

and a half three years since I'd been home and , b I'm

2:04

a I wouldn't say a grown-up , but

2:07

I've aged over

2:09

that time and it was the

2:12

afternoon , it was my mom's 60th birthday

2:14

party and my girlfriend and I were at

2:16

my mom's house and she was

2:18

doing an excellent job talking with friends

2:22

and acquaintances of my mom's most people

2:24

who I didn't know and I was like , hey , how are you doing

2:26

? You hanging in there ? And she's like , yeah , I'm fine , but

2:28

if I have to make small talk with strangers one more time I'm going

2:30

to lose my fucking mind . And I was like

2:33

, okay , I'm writing that down . And

2:37

then the idea basically like that

2:39

kind of became like the thesis

2:41

of the song , because I realized

2:43

that while I was there , a lot

2:46

of people who I was very close with I

2:48

was not as close with . And that's just

2:50

part of growing up , that's just time passing

2:52

by , and it was actually a really weird

2:55

and kind of sad realization

2:57

. I came to that like this isn't my home

3:00

anymore . These people who used to

3:02

be so important to me I'm still are . Some

3:05

of them have kind of become strangers and like I'm struggling to

3:07

figure out what we can

3:09

talk about and 10 years prior

3:11

we would be talking about things like

3:13

no problem , you know . So that was

3:15

kind of the long winded

3:17

version of how that song came

3:19

to be .

3:21

Have any of these people heard the song ? Yes

3:24

, they have .

3:25

And what was the reaction ? Pretty

3:28

positive . Yeah , a

3:30

lot of people think it's a banger . Yeah

3:33

, the second verse I

3:35

had to do some explaining , but

3:39

we figured that out .

3:40

But I mean Do you want to explain that here , to save yourself

3:42

some conversations later ?

3:44

It's a really good line . It's just a line that

3:46

probably gets people in trouble , namely

3:49

Jonas , mostly me .

3:50

I think I know what we're talking about .

3:52

Yeah , do we

3:54

want to go there .

3:57

Well , my dad's probably not going to listen to this anyway . So

4:02

while we were writing the song like and we wrote it and

4:05

rewrote it like a thousand times and

4:07

on the last iteration of it

4:09

being rewritten I felt like that the verses just

4:11

didn't tell like a good enough story

4:14

. So it was one

4:17

of the first songs that got written for the album in some

4:19

regards and one of the last , and we

4:21

rewrote all the verses like a week before

4:23

we went to the studio and we were in Nick's living

4:26

room and I was trying to like sort of tell the story

4:28

about like my girlfriend Iconi

4:30

, we're back home , we had a leaving

4:32

Canterbury for a while , which is where I grew up , and we like

4:34

to get away . We went on this like nice

4:37

drive to Wales and I was showing her

4:39

all these places I grew up . And then

4:41

part of the story of the song is you bump into Somebody

4:43

who you used to know , used to be really close with , and you start

4:45

having a conversation . And it's

4:47

strange because at

4:49

one point in time you would have had like meaningful

4:52

conversations with them and at this point in time

4:54

you're literally talking about like oh , what's the weather like in Canada

4:56

? So the second verse is

4:59

life has been good , nothing too crazy . My

5:01

sister got my act just having a baby , you know , like boring

5:03

small talk and I didn't know how

5:05

to follow up . And then I

5:08

was like , oh , it's so good to see you . How have

5:10

you been lately ? And then Carl goes , my

5:13

mom's doing well , but my dad fucking

5:15

hates me , and I was like , oh man , I can't say that

5:17

. But

5:19

everyone was like that's the line and I

5:21

was like oh , fucking , it's a pretty memorable

5:23

line . Yeah , it's gonna get me in a bit

5:25

of trouble . You know , those are the things that you would say

5:27

with a close friend , not somebody

5:30

who you are now in acquaintance

5:32

with and the idea of that versus it was like a conversation

5:34

between two people and one of the

5:36

people is oversharing a bit and the other one is being

5:39

reserved and just been like yeah , you know , like life

5:41

is fine , you know that

5:43

kind of thing . So I had some explaining

5:45

to do around that line .

5:47

We can . It's ambiguous , right ? We

5:50

can each defer responsibility to everybody else

5:52

in the band for writing that song , so nobody comes after us .

5:54

Well , yeah , I did even have a conversation

5:56

with an old friend who I

5:58

know had a very contentious relationship with his family

6:01

and he alluded to that . So

6:03

it's his fault . Yeah , so Dan Love

6:05

well , dan loves dad . If you're listening

6:07

, go speak to your

6:09

boy .

6:38

Well , I thought you'd ask me where

6:40

we were going , but you slept

6:42

in the backseat , I rolled

6:44

down the windows and drove

6:46

across the country . There's some places

6:49

I want you to see the

6:52

house in the hills where

6:54

I spent my summers . It's

6:56

harder than hell and it keeps

6:59

getting harder . There's a tower

7:01

in the valley with cobblestone

7:03

streets . I'll skip rocks in

7:05

the river while you lie next to

7:07

me and we bump into someone

7:10

who reminds me of something that

7:13

I can't explain , because now

7:15

it means nothing .

7:18

I make these walks over strangers

7:21

. You are used to love up our

7:23

Canadian winters , and

7:26

how much it hurt to get those tattoos on

7:28

my fingers and boarded in these

7:30

. Do they see a stranger

7:33

when they look at me ?

7:35

Life has been good , nothing

7:38

too crazy . My sister

7:40

got married . She's having

7:42

a baby . It's so good to

7:44

see you . Have you been

7:46

lately ? My mom's doing

7:48

well and my dad fucking

7:50

hates me . We talk about someone

7:53

who reminds me of nothing

7:55

.

7:56

I try to remember . Am I supposed to

7:58

feel something ? There's

8:02

a voice in the air and I've heard

8:04

it before I spill my

8:06

guts and out the

8:08

anger's not the same anymore

8:11

. I

8:14

make these walks over strangers

8:16

. You are used to love

8:18

up our Canadian winters and

8:20

how much it hurt to get those tattoos

8:23

on my fingers and boarded

8:25

in these . Do they

8:27

see a stranger when they look

8:29

at me ? I'm carrying on

8:31

my blare stains and cutting my losses

8:34

. I'm letting go of anger

8:36

and the time that it cost me felt

8:38

. It left me like a breath . I'm

8:41

seeking the shame . I'm living

8:43

free and screaming . I'm carrying on my blare stains

8:45

. Do

9:03

you need me here ? She

9:06

has come home . Do

9:10

you need me here ?

9:14

She has come home . Do

9:18

you need me here ? I make

9:20

these walks over strangers . You are used to

9:22

love up our Canadian winters , and

9:27

how much it hurt to get those tattoos

9:29

on my fingers and boarded

9:31

in these . Do they see

9:33

a stranger when they look at me ? Having

9:42

said all this , where is home for you now ?

9:45

Home's here 100% Like . I

9:47

feel like a tourist when I go home now .

9:50

Because that's kind of the vibe of the song . That's exactly it

9:52

.

9:52

The whole thing is like this is where I grew up . These are the

9:54

people that were important to me , this is the place that I used to

9:56

spend my summers as a kid , and

9:58

I just don't fit here

10:00

anymore . It's like a weird sort of nowhere

10:03

space that I feel like I land in . I'm not quite

10:06

Canadian enough to

10:08

be Canadian and I'm definitely not English anymore

10:10

. And being so

10:12

desperately homesick during

10:15

COVID and then to go home and

10:17

to have this realization like okay , this place is

10:19

just not home anymore . It was kind

10:21

of sad for me . I still love

10:23

it . My family are there , some of my really

10:25

good friends are there , but here is home

10:27

now . My whole life is here . My friends , my

10:30

community , my girlfriend , my dogs my

10:32

entire life is in Kingston .

10:34

Well , and I like to think that in a multicultural

10:37

society , you talk about feeling

10:39

Canadian . It should be said

10:41

that you shouldn't have to feel like

10:43

you should be something If you consider yourself

10:45

Canadian , oh yeah for sure .

10:47

I mean it's less about like , do

10:49

I own a pair of skates and play

10:52

hockey and wear plaid , and it's more of like

10:54

I don't know . I feel like a lot of people would

10:56

probably feel the same way if they move from one

10:58

place to another , like you leave some

11:00

parts of you behind and you , like , take

11:03

new parts of the new place with

11:05

you . And I mean I think that's one

11:07

of the great things about Canada is how there's people

11:09

from all over the world and that very

11:11

much seems like it's identity . But

11:13

you know , sometimes people think I'm

11:15

Australian all the time because they're like you know , you're

11:17

not from England .

11:18

I promise you , I am .

11:20

I just don't have a Canadian accent , but I say

11:23

how's it going , bud sometimes . So

11:25

it can be quite confusing .

11:28

I mean , if I can relate

11:30

to the thing you're saying , like I didn't move

11:32

to Kingston from England , so I

11:34

definitely don't have the same experience than you . But I feel

11:37

the same way about Guelph . I grew up in Guelph

11:39

, ontario , which is three hours down

11:41

the 401 . I like the way

11:43

that you root your songs and your identity and like

11:45

you talk about what it means to be like an

11:47

expat .

11:48

But it's immigrant . Yeah

11:50

, ex-pats just do not know what

11:53

that like that like white people use when

11:56

they don't want to be called an immigrant .

11:57

They're gentrified immigrants . Yeah , thank

11:59

you for that . No

12:02

, no , no , no .

12:03

I like that you talk about your experience that way but

12:07

I relate to that , even being from

12:09

another town in Ontario Like it's

12:12

still like that Leaving home . There's

12:14

a universality to it . I think that speaks to

12:16

a lot of people . So credit to you

12:19

and Carl .

12:19

Well , even if you want to look at the music community , there's a lot

12:21

of people who've come here , like you said just

12:23

, from out of town . But they're here and they're in

12:25

the community and it's some . People

12:27

become part of the community very quickly .

12:29

Yeah , and like , I think

12:31

a big part of that

12:34

is like you have roots and you pull them up and that

12:37

takes a considerable amount of effort and when you put them back

12:39

down again , having already been through like

12:42

the whole , like movement things , like geez , I don't have the

12:44

energy to like dig up all those roots and go somewhere else again .

12:47

Yeah , absolutely . I think there's something

12:49

interesting , especially what you just said about moving from like

12:51

wealth to Kingston , where it's only three hours . I think

12:53

even the small , like those micro

12:55

differences in like England to Canada , where

12:58

I think it was like an interview with Frank Turner I

13:00

heard once where somebody said in Canada

13:03

100 years is a long time

13:05

, but in England 100 kilometers

13:07

is a long distance .

13:09

And it's so true . Yeah , Frank Turner

13:11

also side note said quote he's

13:13

obsessed with this song .

13:15

Oh , that's right , I forgot about that

13:17

. Oh my God , where did that come from ?

13:19

My Frank Turner musical hero of mine . I

13:21

have loved Frank Turner for as long as I've been playing music

13:23

. My brother-in-law sent him strangers

13:26

. I used to love Frank Turner . It replied

13:28

to him like on an email saying wow

13:30

, that's a super great song . And I was like okay

13:33

, I'm going to email him and say thank you . So

13:35

I emailed him this long email being like

13:37

thank you so much , I'm so glad you liked the music . And I sent

13:39

him Christina , because he's from

13:41

Winchester , which is where my friend Christina

13:43

, who the song Christina is about that's where she's from . And

13:46

I sent him the link to the whole album . I

13:48

was like give it a listen . And he replied saying a lovely email and

13:50

was like I'm actually kind of obsessed with that song and

13:54

I was like , oh my God .

13:55

Oh my God , that's great to hear , I love the album

13:57

.

14:00

There's a great energy about it and I found myself

14:02

comparing it to the previous album until

14:04

tomorrow which had , I'd say , some darker

14:07

moments on it . This album

14:09

, I got the feeling that the band

14:11

felt re-energized somehow

14:13

. Is that correct , correct ? I would totally

14:16

agree .

14:16

Yeah , I think the four years that

14:19

have passed since until tomorrow since

14:21

we put that one out , which is August 2020 , have

14:24

been the hardest four

14:26

years of our not just careers

14:28

but , like , I think , our lives as

14:30

a whole . We went through some

14:32

really , really rough times

14:34

as a band and as a group of friends

14:36

and we've

14:39

put a lot of weight and a lot of

14:41

stock into the making of this

14:43

album and I think the

14:46

process of writing it and the process

14:48

of making it not only saved

14:51

the band but definitely saved our friendship

14:53

for sure , and I'm glad that comes across it

14:56

feels like writing

14:59

this album helped us be like a capital

15:01

B band .

15:02

You know what I mean . We've always been a band and

15:04

I've always had this joke with

15:06

the guys that our shtick as a band is

15:09

that we're a band . Who's a band ? You know , we're

15:11

not like a Viking metal band or anything . The shtick

15:13

is like we play rock and roll and that's it . When

15:17

we recorded until tomorrow , it was such

15:19

a creative process because

15:22

it was all happening in the moment . There were songs that we had , like

15:24

never played before , that we were just hashing out at the back

15:26

house making it happen as

15:28

it came to us , whereas with this record we

15:30

were like what even is the wilderness

15:32

at all ? What do we sound like ? What do we want to sound like ? What

15:35

are we supposed to sound like ? And

15:37

we put in a lot of effort

15:40

with one another as songwriters , with

15:43

one another as instrumentalists , to be like okay , like here's

15:45

where we can fit all these sounds together , like Max's

15:48

guitar parts on this record , for example , like really

15:50

, really shine for me

15:53

because , like , his sound as a guitarist

15:55

is so present across all of these tunes

15:57

and they really elevate the tunes . We

15:59

shared responsibility for writing some of the songs like

16:02

Strangers I Used to Love . There's a tune on this

16:04

record called Hold Back the Daybreak which

16:06

we like literally wrote in a room

16:08

, shouting like two words of a sentence

16:10

of at a time at each other , trying

16:12

to figure it out . Different people have come into different

16:14

roles . Carl is singing more , liam is really

16:17

zoned in on the keys thing , I'm playing

16:19

more acoustic guitar than I ever thought I would

16:21

in my life and also playing saxophone

16:23

. We all really helped

16:27

one another carve a place for ourselves

16:29

and each other on this record . I

16:32

think it is like so much different

16:34

of an effort than until tomorrow , but

16:36

it feels like where

16:38

we want to be , if that makes sense .

16:41

I love that phrase , capital B band , that's

16:43

a great way to put it . And you also mentioned

16:45

, like the creation process of until tomorrow versus

16:47

this . You were in the bathhouse for until tomorrow and

16:50

this record . You guys , you did a lot of

16:52

work in your jam house in uh

16:54

on how Island and now you've got your own recording

16:57

space , that that you're setting up in kind

16:59

of South Frontenac . Do you want to tell us a little bit about that ?

17:01

Sure , about the about the place in South Frontenac

17:03

.

17:03

Anything and everything , all of this , the whole story .

17:05

Yeah , I mean like until

17:07

tomorrow . You know we put out an EP

17:09

prior to that , uh , and a few singles

17:12

, but until tomorrow was our first album , and maybe

17:14

it was Dave Grohl who said that , like writing your first

17:16

album is easy because you've been doing it your entire life and

17:18

then this is your second one , that's really hard , god

17:21

damn . He was right . Like until tomorrow

17:23

, there was a lot of us just being like so stoked

17:25

that we were recording at the bathhouse and throwing every

17:27

idea we had at the wall and seeing what

17:29

stuck and some

17:31

of those songs , the first time we played them as a band

17:34

. Well , while we recorded them and we did 12

17:36

songs in nine days , this

17:39

album has taken us the better part of three

17:41

and a half four years because COVID

17:43

not much else to do other than write songs . The

17:45

first song we wrote for this album was

17:47

, uh , november 2020

17:50

. 2021, . We got together

17:52

and we rehearsed a bunch

17:54

and when we could , and then there were

17:56

a few false starts and they're you know , like then

17:59

it was like , okay , are we going to tour this album cycle

18:01

? Because we feel like we should tour this album cycle , but

18:03

we already kind of already kind of moved on for it but

18:05

we hadn't . It was this really weird like gray

18:07

area of our lives where we didn't

18:10

really know what we were supposed to be doing . We

18:12

did a few more demos in 2022 and , like

18:14

2022 was just like the worst

18:16

year for us . It was so difficult , like I

18:18

was just certain that we were

18:20

just done and I didn't know

18:23

what I was going to do with

18:25

myself . If that was the case , why

18:27

did you think that ? Uh , I feel

18:29

like just life had

18:31

become really , really stressful Stressful . Covid

18:33

. That was challenging for everyone for many

18:35

different reasons and it also occupied a lot of space

18:38

in our lives . It was hard to

18:40

sort of carve out the time for the band

18:42

. Again , I was our own worst enemy . I would

18:44

have driven us off a cliff if I'd

18:46

been allowed to be at the helm of

18:49

everything . You know , like it was just like it was

18:51

a lot . There was interpersonal stuff I

18:53

was like insufferable to work with . I

18:56

was just being fuck

18:58

, this it's the band versus everything Like blah , blah

19:00

, blah , blah , like anyway . So that was it was . It

19:02

was a difficult time and we were

19:04

all we were really struggling personally

19:06

with each other as a band . I the analogy

19:08

I said was like trying to keep this band together is like

19:10

trying to like keep water in like your hand , like

19:12

cupped hands , you know , and it was just like I was

19:14

like doing anything I could to not let it slip

19:17

through my fingers , kind of thing , but

19:19

anyway . Um , we went on

19:21

tour in 2022

19:23

. Yeah , in the summer , and it's really funny too

19:25

, because from the outside , looking in , like 2022

19:27

, like our best year yet and in many ways it

19:29

was and in many ways it was the fucking

19:31

worst time . And when we got back , we

19:33

were like , okay , we need to like figure

19:36

something out , and the process

19:38

that we took , uh , to write until

19:42

tomorrow , I mean , or some of

19:44

the songs , like we were just all in a house

19:46

in a room together and I've always thought like we do

19:48

our best work when we're together as friends

19:50

. Our two biggest enemies are

19:53

never having enough time and never having enough money , and

19:55

the two are so interconnected . So

19:58

, scrolling Kijiji one

20:00

day and I see this listing for a place on how Island and

20:03

it's empty . A huge house

20:05

. It was ridiculously cheap and

20:07

it was only available for six months and I was like there's

20:09

got to be a catch . But

20:11

I guess the catch was it was an unfurnished

20:13

rental on an island for

20:16

six months over the winter . Like how many people

20:18

are really going to go for that ? And we

20:20

put in an application and they said sure . And

20:22

we told them like we want to work

20:25

with . The plan was to record the whole album there because

20:27

you know now we will be able

20:29

to . If we don't have the money , at least we'll have the time

20:31

. So we moved in all

20:33

of the equipment that we could , we begged and borrowed and

20:36

stole some . We got like Nick

20:38

and Liam were driving around town getting free furniture

20:40

from like Facebook marketplace and stuff like that .

20:42

We lifted couches down a lot of stairs .

20:46

And then we just kind of dug

20:48

ourselves in for like six

20:51

months and we wrote

20:53

a ton of songs and we

20:55

demoed even more and

20:57

that process I know it sounds dramatic

20:59

, but I really think it like saved the band but

21:02

, more importantly , our friendship , because it was just a space where we

21:04

could just be friends and there was no like timeline

21:08

of like it's go time , like we've got to get

21:10

this thing out by you know next

21:12

week or whatever it was like there was none of that . It

21:14

was just like we're going to go and go at our own pace , which

21:17

is a really tough lesson for me , because my

21:19

impatience was certainly like a big issue

21:21

within the band , because I am the most impatient

21:23

person ever . So , you know , we like

21:26

really took our time with it and taking our time

21:28

was the best thing we could have done and

21:30

it meant that like I didn't dread

21:32

band shit anymore . It was like I just wanted to be there all the

21:35

time and sometimes we'd get there on like a Tuesday

21:37

night . We had like a little ritual We'd get there

21:39

on a Tuesday after work , we'd make

21:41

dinner , we'd hang out , maybe we'd play some

21:43

music , maybe we'd just hang

21:45

out , and then we'd have a fire in the evening

21:47

, have a couple of beers and we'd all have a sleepover in the living

21:50

room . There was like five bedrooms in the house .

21:52

We never slept in the bedroom , nobody . Everybody crashed in the living

21:54

room together .

21:56

Like , just like six dudes in

21:59

the living room would usually fall asleep to like band of

22:01

brothers or saving private life

22:03

, which is , in retrospect , a bad thing to fall asleep to

22:05

.

22:06

That was why you were so stressed out . You had to break it down . It's

22:08

like the sound of guns on the floor Guns on

22:10

the floor .

22:13

And yeah , and then we'd wake up on Wednesday and we were like , ok , let's

22:15

play some music , and we were just doing

22:17

it for the sake of doing it again , which we

22:19

hadn't done . Since , like we first started

22:21

, I've been telling like a really

22:24

long story , but like they're

22:26

asking about the studio we're building .

22:27

Right , that's it .

22:29

OK .

22:31

Anyway . So this process was just

22:33

like . I mean , it was probably the best six months

22:35

of my life . I loved every second

22:38

of it . I love the process . I learned

22:40

so much . We were more collaborative

22:43

than we'd ever been because we were all in the same space at the

22:45

same time . Like Nick said , we were like all

22:47

writing songs together and

22:49

then , you know , we always knew it was going to come

22:51

to an end and

22:54

when we moved out of that place , like I

22:56

was bereft and so

22:58

I was like like this was the best thing for us . I

23:00

want to be able to do this more and I also

23:02

want to be able to share it . So a

23:04

couple of months later , we found this another

23:07

place on Kijiji . It's not quite , as it's

23:09

certainly not a mansion , like the

23:11

how I own place was , and it's not even as cheap , for

23:13

goodness sake , but it's just north

23:16

of Kingston and we

23:19

decided that we wanted to carry on that like how

23:21

I own the dream and just make it accessible to other musicians

23:23

in the scene . So we built our own studio

23:26

up there and we're kind of like soft

23:28

opening it right now . Then again , we've

23:30

done it with next to no money and

23:33

we got a loan from Home Depot . So

23:35

we're actually we did it on minus

23:38

money and we don't know anything about construction

23:40

either . We just learned as we went . But now we have a studio

23:42

that I it's . I'm

23:45

really proud of it , and we

23:47

want to basically like extend

23:49

our experience on how I went to

23:51

like other bands in the in the scene or musicians

23:54

or anyone Whether you want to come out

23:56

here and just bang some drums for a couple of hours , or you want to

23:58

record an EP or an audiobook

24:00

or whatever it is Like . We just wanted to kind

24:02

of capture that magic from how I let

24:04

it just sort of make that go forward

24:06

.

24:07

I think one of the themes that kept coming up , as you like

24:09

told that story , and something that I've always

24:12

felt like is an over over

24:14

arching , just a very prominent theme with the wilderness

24:16

is friendship , as you guys are a band but

24:18

you also seem so forward

24:21

as just a bunch of dudes that are friends

24:23

, and I think that's like the true , that

24:25

you really live the true dream of any

24:27

like group of dudes that are just tight

24:29

where you're like we should have a clubhouse . Yeah

24:32

, you really .

24:33

We really did

24:36

, that's so true , oh

24:38

boy , but it is the thing I mean , so

24:41

I'll share this with you . Like I said , I moved

24:43

here from Guelph . I saw the wilderness

24:45

play before I was in the wilderness . I keep

24:47

telling people there's a poster in my

24:49

office that has you guys before

24:51

. I was in the band , and the band that I was playing

24:53

with at the time called the Royal Drifters and Basic White

24:56

. They were on the build to . Yeah , I remember that show Well

24:58

. I was like , yeah , so I've seen you guys

25:00

play and that's , that's always been the vibe that I got and

25:02

like sort of the interesting thing for me

25:04

joining the band a little later

25:06

, which is still like five or six years ago now

25:08

. Good Lord .

25:10

Dude , it was seven years ago , don't ?

25:11

tell me that , oh

25:13

boy , the interesting thing

25:15

is that , like that

25:17

has been like the biggest challenge and

25:19

the biggest asset to the band . People

25:22

tell us this when we play shows . They're like , ok , we can tell

25:24

that you're having a good time . And we're like , yeah , because this is the only

25:26

thing that we want to do . If we

25:28

were doing this with our nemeses

25:30

, this would be miserable , and

25:32

sometimes we've been our own nemeses . You know what I

25:35

mean . Like you get bogged down in the , in

25:37

the business stuff . You get bogged down trying to book

25:39

tours or make show graphics

25:41

or budget for rehearsal

25:44

space or whatever , and like balancing

25:46

that with being friends is incredibly tough . Right

25:48

, like that's part of why it was hard

25:51

in 2022 was because we

25:53

were all reckoning with the fact that , like , we're

25:55

on the cusp of turning 30 . Most of the band already is .

25:58

I'm not like three months , yeah , you

26:01

know , like then it's game over .

26:03

We're all like we're all working people trying

26:05

to pay our rent . We're all like we've

26:08

all got jobs and relationships and dogs

26:11

, cats , whatever no kids yet All

26:13

of that makes it so

26:15

that you can just spend ages working

26:18

and not relating

26:20

or making music , which is the

26:22

important part and is such a driving factor

26:24

of the way that we relate , because being on stage together

26:27

is such a moment

26:29

of community for all

26:31

of us , and writing these songs

26:33

was that for us , right . Like having the vulnerability

26:35

to bring your ideas forward , like trusting your

26:38

friends to play

26:40

your feelings for you , which is something that I had to work

26:42

on desperately . Jonas can take accountability

26:45

for being maybe very demanding

26:47

of the band . I can take accountability for being the

26:49

nitpickiest person alive . Yeah

26:53

, the music making moment really is where the community

26:55

feeling happens for us , and so

26:57

I

27:00

don't think that this band would be what it is if we

27:02

didn't love each other , and I think that , like , learning

27:04

to love each other more has made us a better

27:06

band .

27:08

The thing is is like you're balancing this like

27:10

really delicate line

27:13

of business and friendship and the business doesn't pay

27:15

you any money , so you can't even

27:17

say , well , we're making the best business

27:19

decision right now because it's going to benefit everyone financially

27:22

. It's like sometimes we were like I wanted to make what

27:24

I thought was the best business decision there was

27:26

actually terrible for us as individuals

27:28

. Like hey , yeah , like I

27:31

don't care if you're broke , we're fucking

27:33

going on tour and suck it up by the cup . You

27:35

know like the world just doesn't work

27:37

like that anymore . You know like bands used to go on tour

27:39

and would make money . Now bands go on tour

27:41

and , if they're lucky , they sell t-shirts

27:43

. That's the sort of the way the

27:45

music industry has gone , and

27:48

so like a tough lesson to learn

27:50

was , while trying

27:52

to balance this act , like sometimes the best decision

27:54

for the band wasn't the best business decision , but it

27:56

was the best . Like we had to choose the decision

27:58

that was the best for the friendship and we've definitely

28:01

shifted towards that over the last year

28:03

and a half or so , making like the friendship

28:05

the most important thing . If

28:08

that's all working , then everything else is going to fall into place

28:10

and again , like 2022

28:12

was like awful . Like I was like sounds

28:15

dramatic to say grieving , but like I was a fucking

28:17

mess . I was like I was like I've just I've

28:19

lost this thing . That's my whole fucking

28:22

life , that's my entire identity , is wrapped

28:24

up in being in this

28:26

band and like if these guys can't stand

28:28

to be in the same room as me , what the fuck

28:30

am I going to do with myself ? It was awful

28:32

. It was so awful . I'm just

28:35

really grateful that we got to work through that

28:37

together and it took a lot of us sitting

28:39

in circles sobbing Yep

28:41

Multiple times , many times

28:44

. But man , like fuck , how good does

28:46

that feel that you can just sit in a circle with a bunch

28:48

of dudes and cry until

28:50

things just feel better ? The

28:52

friendship , to me , is like it's more important

28:54

than even the music . You

28:56

put the friendship first , everything else

28:59

will fall into place and everything else will be okay . The

29:01

music might suck , but who cares ? We're

29:04

having a good time and we have a clubhouse . We do

29:06

have a clubhouse .

29:08

Well , let's go back to the music for a second , I

29:10

want to talk about another track on the album Hollywood

29:13

Boulevard . Jonas , you're

29:15

known for a good rant once in a while

29:17

. What's happening at the end of that track ? That's

29:20

me ranting .

29:23

Literally with a megaphone . That is a megaphone

29:25

at the end of that track and I am ranting and

29:27

that list was pared down . There

29:30

were like 70 things that I was

29:32

yelling profanities about . You've

29:34

got like eight bars you

29:36

can't say everything that

29:39

you hate about the world Like fuck Canadian

29:41

telecom companies .

29:44

That one will go well , yeah , yeah

29:46

.

29:47

Man like yeah , let's talk .

29:49

Yeah , so yeah .

29:50

Sing fuck Belle , fuck Rogers . Most

29:53

people like in Canada

29:55

would agree , but like that just doesn't really have a good

29:57

ring to it lyrically . But

30:00

yeah , that song is a big

30:02

old rant . It's

30:16

a good rant , it feels good , it feels cathartic

30:18

. It's also like our most bombastic

30:20

, sort of like over the top

30:22

, silly rock song

30:24

. But in many ways the character

30:27

in that story is just like it's

30:29

like me . In many ways it's it

30:31

could be sort of anyone . That

30:33

whole vision of like I want to be the biggest rock star in the world , like I

30:35

want to fucking have my name in lights

30:37

, blah , blah , blah , blah , blah . And

30:40

it's kind of maybe just a critique of like just

30:42

how stupid this all is in general . Like

30:44

it's so absurd and we

30:47

idolize people who

30:49

are just fallible

30:51

human beings who make stupid mistakes and

30:54

we love to build them up and then as soon as they make a mistake

30:56

, like just rip them to shreds and

30:58

the whole thing of like the 27 Club

31:00

two being like there's like a

31:02

romanticism around these people dying

31:04

in these horrific ways . I

31:07

was just getting so frustrated with just being like I just want

31:09

to play music , to have fun and

31:11

yet , like this industry and

31:13

like the way the world works is just so

31:16

toxic and even

31:18

like my sort of wanted

31:20

involvement in that is like awful

31:22

you know Well , I think the band leaned into that

31:25

for a while .

31:25

Yeah , in the early ish

31:27

days of at least when I had first

31:30

joined the band , that was like kind of what we were

31:32

trying to do . We were trying to be like big , bombastic

31:34

rock and roll and like , sure

31:37

it's like that's fun and playing shows is great and

31:39

I love that we put on a show with a lot of production , but

31:41

like the whole rock star ethos

31:43

, the whole like boys club thing , the whole

31:46

like showbiz

31:49

baby , I guess . Yeah , like I mean

31:51

I think we leaned into it as a band

31:53

, being like oh yeah , we're going to be the next big thing and that

31:55

was just like the worst thing for all of us , because then , when

31:58

we weren't , we all had to like go through

32:00

an existential crisis and do a lot of learning

32:02

and learn to like be nice to

32:04

each other . So

32:07

in many ways , like most

32:10

of the songs on strangers I used to love are like

32:12

some sort of letter to

32:14

a part of one's past and like

32:16

I perceive Hollywood Boulevard maybe this is just me , but

32:19

I perceive Hollywood Boulevard to be like about

32:21

the band we thought we were four

32:24

years ago and now we're a very different band than

32:26

that and I love that it's still ludicrous . I

32:28

love that it's got like so many saxophones and so many

32:30

harmonies and like I love that it has all

32:32

the candy on it , because I love that kind of music it just has jazz

32:35

hands for the whole song . But

32:38

but like , yeah , philosophically

32:41

speaking , it's like that

32:43

is what a band could be , but that won't be us . Yeah

32:45

.

32:47

Something I've wanted to ask you guys about . I

32:49

saw I think it was about a year ago

32:51

I saw your show at the Isabelle .

32:53

Yeah .

32:53

Great show . I really enjoy that . I'd love the string

32:55

section . But something I've wanted to

32:57

ask any performer who's

33:00

been on that stage as an audience

33:02

member . I've seen many shows

33:04

at the Isabelle and there's always a moment

33:06

where the performer just

33:09

feels really awkward by

33:11

the silence . Oh my God . Because it's such

33:13

a quiet room . And I think most

33:15

performers are not used to that . Yeah , please

33:18

, yeah .

33:19

Well , I mean , like our sort of usual

33:22

setting for us to play a show is an

33:24

allowed sweaty bar

33:26

, yeah , where I mean , especially in the early days

33:28

of our band , like the dive bars , yeah , exactly

33:30

Like we were playing like , you know , the toucan

33:32

and we were playing like the Brooklyn every Friday and it would be

33:34

packed full of like sweaty , loud people and

33:37

sometimes you'd have to fight for their attention . This

33:39

time we're in a silent room where people

33:41

have paid to come and see us and

33:43

they are and sit down , yeah , and they are

33:45

listening to everything in

33:47

perfect acoustics . So , like between

33:50

songs , like usually , like at

33:53

a show , I have okay-ish stage

33:55

banter , especially at a loud bar . And

33:58

then here I was , like I remember

34:00

, like I watched the video back recently and I was like , oh

34:02

man , like tough crowd

34:04

. Like

34:06

not that the crowd were being tough

34:08

, they were being great but I was just being like

34:10

oh , everyone here , Well , you

34:12

guys are all pieces of shit , I'm all right .

34:15

Like it was .

34:17

For the record , it wasn't quite like that , yeah

34:19

.

34:20

Yeah , Like I was trying

34:22

to , I was trying to , like you know , do

34:24

the tongue and cheeks like stage

34:26

stuff between songs and like people were

34:28

like listening and that made

34:31

me really , really anxious

34:33

.

34:34

It honestly was such a trip Like . So

34:36

I went to Queens for music , right Like I played

34:38

classical concerts on

34:41

that stage and I had such a great time at the Isabel

34:43

because I was like I never got a recital or anything . I

34:45

wasn't that good at classical sex . I was like this

34:47

is finally the recital that I get to

34:49

do at the classical hall in Queens

34:51

, and all of these years that I've spent rebelling

34:53

against the classical bullshit of sitting there with your

34:55

hands in your lap and only clapping at

34:58

the end of the piece and being very stoic

35:00

and all this stuff , I'm like finally to hell with that

35:02

. And then we got there and playing

35:05

a rock show on that stage was like

35:07

such cognitive dissonance and

35:10

there were lots of like . There were a few cool pluses

35:13

, right , like because people are sitting

35:15

there listening . Like there's some moments in our songs that like I've

35:17

just never heard before . Like there's four

35:19

beats of silence in where I roam after

35:21

the stick part and in every other situation

35:23

it's just like okay , we're all counting in that room . I heard

35:25

the sticks go and

35:28

just ring out in that room Beautiful In

35:30

between the songs . I was like , yeah , shit , what do we do ? So

35:35

that show was a trip , but it was .

35:36

It was awesome , that was one of the highlights of

35:39

our career playing that show that was great show

35:41

, incredible . Yeah , it was really , really

35:43

nice and I feel like we

35:46

really leaned into it like by , like

35:48

the second half of the show , like because there was an intermission

35:51

, which I don't usually like doing

35:53

. But we

35:55

came back for the second half and I

35:57

felt like by the time we got there we were like , okay

35:59

, we know where we're at right

36:01

now . I will insult

36:04

the audience less , turn

36:08

it around , be more self deprecating and

36:11

when in doubt , nick can tell a joke .

36:13

Nick , I think I recall you slightly berating

36:16

him for calling the audience awful people .

36:18

Okay so .

36:20

I'm . We didn't take it personally .

36:24

No , I , I , I , I , I , I am so grateful that anybody

36:26

would even come to our shows even to

36:29

this day . You're not awful people , I

36:31

am just an awful stage . It

36:34

was all ingest .

36:35

I'm going to share two quotes with you that are

36:37

mine . That are not Jonas's

36:39

quotes , that are my mantra when I'm on

36:41

stage . The first I think you shared with me . You were

36:43

talking about , probably , clarence Clemens and

36:46

Clarence saying like I don't play

36:48

saxophone . My job is that I'm a professional .

36:50

Bruce Watcher or something like that .

36:52

I do feel like that on stage as

36:54

like a front person adjacent

36:57

role . And the other quote that

36:59

I will share I think this was Kent

37:02

McDonald , who said the wilderness

37:04

is a sick band because there are

37:06

two front people and I

37:09

do . When we're on stage I'm

37:11

watching this guy like a hawk , and it's

37:13

not because I'm trying to keep him from saying things

37:15

. It is that sometimes

37:17

he's got to fix a string or something and like I'm

37:19

like okay , we can chit chat .

37:21

Other times I'm like where's

37:24

he going with this , yeah ?

37:26

Other times I do smile , and not a bit , but it's , it's

37:28

out of love , oh shit , Jonas is getting his manifesto

37:31

out . He's getting his manifesto out no

37:34

, I trust you implicitly and you

37:36

know he's done the same for me . There have been times where I've

37:39

been trying to talk on stage and he's like all right , we're going to start this song now

37:41

. Let's , let's balance

37:43

each other out , it's fine .

37:46

Thank you for listening to Kingston Live . Be

37:48

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37:50

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37:52

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37:54

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37:56

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37:58

Kingston music . Check out KingstonLiveca

38:01

.

38:05

Are you guys familiar with the music

38:07

strategy ?

38:08

Yes , very much so .

38:09

Any thoughts on the music strategy at

38:11

this point ? Boy , how do I have so

38:13

many In fact .

38:15

This is the other manifesto . Yeah , yeah , this is actually

38:17

I've been . So I went to all of those meetings

38:19

at the broom factory and then I somebody

38:22

from a consulting firm reached

38:24

out to me and asked me a few questions

38:26

and then there was like a round table discussion on zoom

38:28

that was supposed to be with me and a bunch of other musicians and I was

38:30

the only one who showed up . So I was actually kind

38:32

of pissed for a second but then I was like , actually this is

38:34

sweet , I have I have the

38:36

floor . Um , first of all , I think it's amazing

38:38

. I think Kingston is

38:40

too good of a music scene

38:43

for it not to be , like put

38:45

on like the world stage . There are way

38:48

too many people who work way too hard

38:50

for not enough reward , be

38:52

it like monetary or otherwise

38:54

, for it to go unnoticed . There

38:57

are lots of people who have their hearts in the right place and

38:59

there is like all of the opportunity to

39:01

make it happen . I , my biggest sort

39:03

of critique and feedback , without

39:06

trying to talk for 45 minutes

39:09

on this , was that like , if

39:11

you make policy changes that

39:13

just benefit the community at large

39:16

, it also benefits the musicians

39:18

. Pay as many consulting firms

39:20

as many hundreds of thousands of dollars , all you

39:22

want , but at a grassroots

39:24

level . That's how things do

39:27

well and succeed is by supporting at a grassroots level

39:29

. Austin , texas , is the perfect case study . In

39:32

the 80s , all of these record

39:34

labels and musicians were moving there from Nashville and

39:36

LA and New York because it was more affordable and

39:39

a lot of these record labels were just uprooting . And

39:41

then the city of Austin were like hang on a second

39:43

, something's really happening here . We should talk

39:46

to the movers and shakers in the scene and

39:48

see what's going on . And they were like okay , we're just going

39:50

to brand ourselves as the music capital of the world now

39:52

. Okay , how can we keep you here

39:54

? And then a bunch of people form like

39:56

the Austin City Music Coalition I don't know if that's

39:58

the actual term for it , but like a coalition

40:00

of musicians aboard . And they went to the system

40:02

. They said here are the things that we want , and

40:05

we want free healthcare if you work in the music industry

40:07

in Texas . So

40:09

if you not just a musician , but if you're

40:11

a performer or a booking

40:13

agent I don't know if you work within the music industry in

40:15

Austin you get your healthcare paid

40:18

for in Texas . It's crazy . There

40:20

are incentives to landlords

40:22

who have vacant properties to fill them

40:24

with bands for rehearsal spaces

40:27

. There are like sensible

40:29

things like free parking , you

40:31

know , like really small things like that . Things actually

40:33

benefit the greater community at large , which then help

40:36

the music scene , and

40:38

I think a lot of those things

40:40

could be implemented here in Kingston

40:42

, like actually just going and supporting what's already

40:45

happening . There's a lack of infrastructure Since

40:47

we lost Roswell rehearsals . That was a huge

40:50

blow . So the new multi-million

40:53

dollar housing developments downtown have just evicted

40:55

bands from the last rehearsal space

40:57

in downtown Kingston . And yet we're

41:00

spending a ton of money paying a consulting

41:02

firm to come up with answers

41:04

instead of listening to the musicians themselves

41:06

and I know the musicians in town and

41:08

the people who work in the industry have a lot to say . So

41:11

I am glad that , like we're being consulted

41:13

, but like man

41:15

, here I go , I'm just talking again , but like , yeah

41:18

, I think you're good . I think that

41:20

we are in the perfect

41:22

position for something like great

41:25

to happen . I hope that the money

41:27

and the funds are managed correctly and like

41:29

equitably and I hope

41:31

that like it doesn't just benefit the musicians in town

41:33

, because if you bring in affordable housing , for

41:35

example , or any accessibility

41:38

pieces that benefit the wider community at large

41:40

, it also benefits the musicians . There's

41:42

very little retention here . Like a lot

41:44

of people will start out in Kingston , they'll move

41:46

away , you know and I'm talking like Queen's students and

41:48

stuff and there's little infrastructure . So if we can

41:50

support the infrastructure and , you know , maybe

41:52

not give bylaw tickets to music

41:55

venues for hosting live music and

41:57

giving bands parking tickets for loading

41:59

at the toucan if we can support these things from a grassroots

42:01

level , make it affordable and give people a reason to stay

42:03

, everything else will kind of , like you

42:06

know , happen organically , I guess , yeah

42:08

.

42:08

I think it's important for Kingstonians

42:11

to acknowledge the relationship

42:14

that they have with

42:16

the city , and especially

42:19

Kingstonians who really

42:21

, really love Kingston and who want to call it a

42:23

music city , because I believe Kingston is a

42:25

musical city . I believe Kingston

42:27

is a city with a very rich music history . But

42:30

if I can flip the script and be the politically

42:32

opinionated one here in this conversation , I think

42:34

that if

42:36

the city of Kingston wants to

42:38

call itself a music city , then

42:40

it should be prepared to do the kind of stuff

42:43

that Jonas is asking about . Talk to

42:45

the people who are working in the industry , at

42:47

a grassroots level . Talk to the people who

42:49

need that infrastructure , be prepared to put

42:51

that infrastructure in place , make

42:54

working relationships with the

42:57

BIA , with downtown Kingston , who

42:59

I'm going to call out for . Asking for free work from

43:01

designers Right , I

43:04

was going to say it . But hey , right

43:06

, you know , we got an offer from like , from

43:09

a some group at Queens , for

43:11

example , saying , hey , we want to use your music in a

43:13

documentary about Queens football . We're all focusing

43:15

on like , local music , local musicians .

43:17

It's going to be nationally broadcast .

43:18

It's going to be broadcast and then we're like we don't have a

43:20

budget for music and I was like , great , try that in

43:22

Toronto , where there's people who know what sync licensing

43:25

is , and they'll tell you to get in the bin . We are

43:27

here in a small scene that needs the infrastructure

43:29

needs , the education needs , the

43:31

same kind of industry . Build

43:34

up that like a place like Toronto or Montreal has

43:36

. And if this is my call to

43:38

action for the city of Kingston , because I love Kingston

43:40

, if Kingston wants to call

43:42

itself a music city and not just a city

43:44

with a lot of good musicians , the

43:46

city of Kingston as a corporation , as an

43:48

entity , and the following corporations that work with

43:50

it should put time , effort and money

43:52

into talking to musicians in town

43:55

, learning what they need and

43:57

realistically providing those

43:59

opportunities to grow as

44:01

musicians and in the music industry abroad

44:03

.

44:04

And it's not like I mean . The other thing

44:06

, like with like the city as

44:09

well , is like , stop making it actively

44:11

difficult . You don't need

44:13

to like give every musician in town $200,000

44:15

and say have a good life . You just need to stop making

44:18

it like so difficult for musicians

44:20

and , quite frankly , just human beings , to exist in

44:22

the city . It's actually really straightforward

44:25

, like , and there were just so many like little punitive

44:27

things and like red tape , bureaucracy , things

44:29

that actually prevent the city's

44:31

music scene from going , and

44:34

like being able to retain musicians

44:36

here and having like a retention is

44:39

so important because otherwise we could just be

44:41

the city . That's like oh yeah , we're a music city . The Tragic Lee hip and

44:43

the Gloria Sons are from here . Yeah , they also fucking

44:45

left . You know like the Gloria Sons and

44:47

the Tragic Lee hip went and played across

44:49

Canada and across the US . You know like , and

44:52

that's when the city or

44:54

whatever says oh yeah , we did that . So

44:56

no , no , no , like they did that . They went out

44:58

, they tore , they worked their arses off and

45:01

their bands from Kingston Shorts . They're hometown

45:03

. But like you

45:05

can't just like see something being successful and be like

45:08

ah , we see , I was asked

45:10

.

45:10

Gold Star Music City . Well , I'm glad

45:12

you brought that up because that's something that I think I've brought up

45:15

in the podcast before . And you can go back to

45:17

the Tragic Lee hip . I remember as

45:19

a kid when the Tragic Lee hip were up

45:21

and coming and you know , I sort of heard

45:23

the name once in a while , but it wasn't till

45:26

fully , completely , and then they were just everywhere

45:28

and they should have

45:30

been a household name before they

45:32

broke everywhere else . And it happened

45:34

with the hip , it happened with the sons

45:36

and , yeah , we need to have

45:39

closer ties with our own

45:41

musicians in our own backyard . They

45:43

shouldn't , they should be household names here before

45:45

everywhere else .

45:47

For sure , and I . There's a ton

45:49

of really simple things that can be done to

45:51

just help support

45:54

the local art scene Downtown

45:56

Kingston . Not wanting to pay for , like

45:59

graphic design , like , come on , like

46:02

it seems pretty straightforward

46:04

. I think this place has so much potential

46:06

and it actually pains me how little

46:08

infrastructure there is to support it . I

46:11

think Kingston Live is one of the very

46:13

few pieces of musical infrastructure that we have

46:15

here that actually supports the music

46:17

scene actively . And

46:20

Mark and Moira at KPP , who

46:22

are amazing and you know , opening up the brand factory

46:24

, yep . I'm sure I'm forgetting

46:26

some other people , but like these are the things that are like

46:28

integral to a music community

46:30

. It's not just having a ton of bands and

46:32

a couple of venues for them to play . It's about having an infrastructure

46:35

that can support them from booking

46:37

management , like physical

46:39

space where bands can show up to make music

46:41

and practice their art without having to

46:44

, you know , worry about getting a bylaw ticket and

46:46

not just bands Like the studio we're working on , like the studio

46:48

we're working on , and also not just bands either

46:50

, because there's way more to

46:52

Kingston's music scene than just white guys who play rock

46:54

music . Saying that as a white guy who plays rock music , there's

46:56

a lot of other music in this town

46:58

that should be supported and , like a lot of

47:00

other like genres that could

47:03

be supported and , you know like

47:05

, attracted to come to Kingston , make Kingston

47:07

your home or even to

47:09

stop here on a tour . You know , fuck

47:12

, I'm ranting . I'm

47:20

really glad it's happening , like thank God

47:22

it's happening . I just I'm Skeptical

47:25

, to make sure , like , of whether money

47:27

is going to end up and how it's gonna be used extably

47:30

.

47:30

Yeah , we've had discussions about this , like

47:32

just our group . Rob and I talk about

47:34

it on occasion and I think we're both in

47:36

the same position of let's , let's

47:38

wait it out , let's see what happens , let's see where it goes . Mm-hmm

47:41

, yeah , it's , it's long overdue

47:43

, regardless for sure .

47:44

Yeah , public transport

47:47

as well . Sorry , fuck yeah .

47:49

Bus , lanes , bike lanes .

47:50

Yeah , wrap up the roads . Oh

47:52

, more bike lanes , all the bike lanes , please

47:54

.

47:55

Yeah , I'm actually in the West End public transport

47:57

that would that runs late would help imagine

47:59

being able to go to overtime sports bar

48:01

to See a show and then being able to hop on the

48:03

bus at one o'clock . I would go or

48:06

tap on , tap off system . I don't know if it thought

48:08

I'm running for mayor of Kingston

48:10

you know it's wild

48:12

is like .

48:13

So the blue line in Toronto , the TTC bus

48:15

that runs all night . You know what got that to happen

48:17

, paul Bernardo ? Wow

48:19

, that's . The only reason they started running

48:21

buses overnight Is because there was a serial

48:24

murder rapist running around that city

48:26

. I want to make it clear

48:28

that's not what I'm endorsing , but

48:30

I'm just saying we also need that bus

48:32

and it's sad that that is the Qualification

48:35

that makes that happen .

48:36

Yeah , I mean like , like , how about like saving

48:38

the planet or just like better

48:40

quality of life For everyone ? Like , for God's sake

48:42

, we don't need a like a one of the worst people

48:44

of all time to like

48:47

inspire public transport . That is

48:49

terrible .

48:53

Okay .

48:58

She's gonna . It's

49:00

excellent .

49:00

Yeah , let's . Let's get back to the

49:02

band and the music . What's , what's next for you guys ? What's

49:04

?

49:04

going on . Let's talk about the

49:06

tour . Thank

49:11

you the radio guy for that lovely segue

49:13

. Yes , so non

49:15

viable , my ass .

49:22

So much great ranting tonight .

49:25

Okay , sorry , so strangers

49:27

, I used to love . The record comes

49:29

out on April 12th and we have

49:31

a handful of shows leading up to that . On

49:33

April 12th , we are gonna be playing

49:36

a really sweet show in Kingston and then we are driving

49:38

straight to Saskatoon . I Really

49:40

hope we get a gig in between here in Saskatoon . We've driven

49:42

straight to Saskatoon three tours in a row right now in Saskatoon

49:44

so far , but we're going on the road . We're going on the road

49:46

, done it . We're gonna play a bunch of shows . We're driving all the way out to

49:48

the west coast of Canada and then we're driving back

49:51

through the states . This will be the first time that we've played

49:53

in the United States since 2019

49:56

. Wow , that the before times . We're

49:59

gonna be playing the heck out of all the songs on

50:01

the record . I'm trying to think we got lots of days .

50:03

Are there like 30 something ?

50:04

something like that . We've announced like 15

50:07

or so . There's gonna be more by

50:09

the time you're hearing this . In the future there will probably

50:11

be lots more . But

50:14

yeah , we're gonna play the record for

50:16

as many people as we possibly can . We

50:18

have some big shows in Kingston , in Cornwall , in

50:21

Toronto . When

50:24

are we announcing that one ? As soon

50:26

as I make the poster . We

50:29

work hard down . In this way you gotta wear a lot

50:31

of hats to be in a band .

50:32

These probably be announced by the time this is out .

50:34

Okay , this is surely this

50:36

will be announced . Tell us about the Toronto show now

50:38

I'm like playing me . We're playing at Elma

50:41

combo . Yeah which is so dialed

50:43

, because it's such a legendary space and I've wanted

50:45

to play there since I first played

50:47

there when I was like 17 in a metal

50:49

band and when it was all tore it up and really bad . This

50:53

would be the tramp . And return to Elma combo . I'm gonna invite

50:55

my grandma . It's gonna be awesome .

50:58

Yeah , lots of shows . We're stoked . We're also gonna start

51:00

a beef between the

51:02

Cornwall wilderness fans

51:04

and the Labrador wilderness fans because so

51:07

far , like they have both

51:09

been just incredible and we want to

51:11

. We want to start a beef between them in an

51:13

attempt to get more people at

51:15

the show . So if you're listening from Cornwall , you ought

51:17

to prove that you're better than people from Labrador

51:19

, and if you're listening in Labrador , you best start driving

51:22

, because we've come to

51:24

you twice .

51:30

Nick , you and I spoke briefly

51:32

at the musicie merch market , yeah

51:35

, several weeks back , and we talked about vinyl

51:37

. Is it gonna be vinyl ?

51:38

Yeah , album , yeah , there's gonna be vinyl of the album

51:40

, which Might be the thing

51:43

that I'm most proud of in my entire life

51:45

. We can

51:48

and will have it at our

51:50

album release shows , so if you want a copy

51:52

, you can pick one up there . I Designed

51:55

the cover for this record .

51:57

This is me maybe bragging a little

51:59

bit , but also this man literally tore

52:01

himself at photoshop and lightroom

52:04

and I didn't see him away from

52:06

his computer for weeks . He did all of the

52:08

assets for the vinyls and the

52:10

album artwork and everything by himself

52:12

because we couldn't afford to pay anyone else To do it

52:14

and Nick was like hell . Yeah , I'm on

52:16

it .

52:18

Questions like a little lot of stuff . My partner , caroline

52:20

, is actually a graphic designer so when I

52:22

got stuck I was like please help me . But

52:25

yeah , I designed the cover . It's

52:27

got my handwriting on it and when I hold one in my hands

52:29

I'm gonna faint because I put way

52:31

too many hours .

52:33

Make the time cover , that's gonna be

52:35

great and now all of the photos

52:37

, for , like the album artwork and the single

52:39

artwork are all film photos that we have taken

52:41

on Tour . Like the front

52:43

cover is the picture of my

52:46

mom's back garden where Connie

52:48

, my girlfriend , said if I have to make small talk was range

52:50

one more time I'm gonna lose my fucking mind . So , like

52:52

there's a lot of us

52:55

, it's very us .

52:56

It is like every part of it is us the

52:59

visuals , the music , the Like

53:01

, all of it and that is

53:03

one of the reasons that I am , like the most proud

53:06

of this record , because we , everything

53:09

about it is the is the most

53:11

honest version of us that we could possibly

53:13

put out there .

53:15

Feels good . It's also hilarious . Our guitar tech

53:17

and long time , dear friend , my candle

53:20

is features on more of the single artwork

53:22

and album artwork than any of the band .

53:27

Boy , yeah , also

53:29

. By the time you're hearing this , I'm

53:31

certain you'll be able to pre-order this record

53:33

on our website , and the website

53:35

is the wilderness band comm

53:37

. Go to the section that says shop

53:40

and , if you feel so inclined , paid

53:42

$1,750

53:45

for a digital download of Christina . That's still up there .

53:48

We needed some 1750 dollars

53:50

to pay rent at how island once .

53:52

Needless to say nobody bought

53:55

one digital download of Christina on our website

53:57

for the price of our rent and wrote in the description like

53:59

do it , you won't .

54:03

Say it's just down to me that no one did that .

54:06

You play . They almost send it to Michael Weckerley , isn't

54:08

he a billionaire ? Yeah , which maybe

54:10

next ?

54:10

time I like get my rent bill , I'll

54:13

just be like no , no , no , this

54:15

is . Send this to Elon Musk . You

54:17

must have a mistake in this , everybody else .

54:19

I've heard like this is a life hack I'm gonna throw out

54:21

there for literally anyone . I've heard once that

54:24

like if you're getting married or like have a birthday

54:26

or anything coming up , we're like you know there's invites

54:28

or whatever . Find any list you

54:30

can of billionaires , homes or

54:32

at least mailing addresses .

54:34

I feel like I like where we go with , yeah , yeah , like torches

54:36

and pitchforks kind of deal .

54:37

You would think so , but no , then

54:39

send invites there , because they

54:41

probably have somebody that just handles like

54:43

incoming mail or incoming messages or whatever , and

54:46

some like it might just slip through the cracks or they're like

54:48

whatever . Just send them a check for like

54:50

, probably more than you know your aunt lianna

54:53

is gonna send you or whatever . Right , like a billionaires

54:55

just have money to throw away at whatever .

54:57

Problem man I am gonna start an

55:00

Enterprise right .

55:02

Then we go with Everything

55:05

we can , then pitchforks yeah we

55:07

just need to eat one , then the rest will fall

55:09

in line . Yep .

55:11

Taylor Swift .

55:12

I'm really sorry but rules is rules . You're a billionaire now

55:14

it brings me no joy .

55:15

It really doesn't . I like you

55:17

anyway . I

55:19

feel like I'm gonna get killed by a bunch of Swifties

55:21

now for saying that I'm a swifty myself . I don't know , but she's

55:23

a billionaire now . No , so I don't know . I Like

55:26

rass music , hey .

55:28

What are you guys gonna get a private jet that you can fly everywhere

55:31

on unnecessarily ?

55:32

when this album blows up on Ticktock and we're

55:34

playing in the next Super Bowl .

55:36

dude , I don't want to fly in a private

55:38

jet , I just want to like Go

55:41

on a plane with the band , maybe once you

55:44

did say you wanted a Hercules pilot to

55:46

fly us to Labrador .

55:47

You went out of your way to find the guy at

55:49

the military base in Labrador who flies the Hercules

55:52

and say what the fuck , why didn't

55:54

you fly us here ?

55:59

Literally the most dangerous , desolate

56:02

highways in the world to go play a show for them . They

56:04

didn't send a plane for us , unbelievable

56:06

, we could have driven our van

56:08

right onto that thing . Yeah

56:11

, I don't know . Even if I , even if we made millions

56:13

of dollars , I've never owe my own private jet

56:16

. I like the planet .

56:17

I feel like if we shame Taylor Swift enough

56:20

, being a billionaire , taylor Swift just

56:22

needs to like One time be like

56:24

boy . I wish I could take a high-speed rail

56:26

line from this gig to this Finally

56:29

, fucking get some .

56:30

Absolutely yeah , that's . That's all we need bring . I

56:32

don't want a private jet , I want high-speed rail , that's it

56:34

.

56:35

I did have a very good dream once where there was like

56:37

an LRT that went from K-beck City

56:39

to Labrador City . This

56:42

is shortly after our tour , and I spent my entire dream

56:44

on the train to Labrador City . You

56:47

know that was a thing , because this is

56:49

what we need .

56:51

Anything else .

56:54

Come to our show . Come to our show by a record

56:57

, by a record . We really hope you like

56:59

the album . I am immensely

57:01

proud of it . I think it is our best work by

57:03

far . It is the most us thing . We

57:06

got to work with some amazing

57:08

people making it . It's taken us a long time

57:10

. We're proud of it . Steve Foley

57:12

in Ottawa . He produced

57:15

and mixed this record . We owe him

57:17

our lives . This man , this

57:19

album nearly killed him , I swear to God . Like he put

57:21

hundreds and hundreds and hundreds

57:23

of hours Into it , like after we were gone

57:26

, like we were recording it over the space of six months

57:28

and he was working on it non-stop

57:30

. And we are so

57:32

grateful for him and to everybody

57:34

who was Involved in this process

57:37

and to everybody who still gives a shit

57:39

about our band . We're so grateful

57:41

and we really hope you like the album .

57:43

I like the album . We got to hear it beforehand . I

57:46

love the album . I'm looking forward to other people

57:48

getting to hear the album , as I'm sure you are

57:50

as well . Yeah absolutely can't friggin wait

57:52

. Gentlemen , thank you

57:54

so much for coming in . This is great . Thank you very

57:56

much for having us again .

57:57

Sorry about the ranting . No , I'm on your

57:59

team . I'm always down for more rant .

58:02

I think we we've done this enough that I think we kind

58:04

of expected it anyway .

58:07

Thanks guys .