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1:20

everyone will come back alley not so confidential

1:23

i don't hear were

1:24

there is got a everybody welcome back

1:26

he added episode one oh said

1:29

you are getting your documentary

1:32

review a little that early this

1:34

month and then we will drop and you think episode

1:36

next week were finally doing

1:38

an episode on flooding

1:40

you know

1:41

the talking about it for years

1:43

i like yeah we really have an interesting

1:45

like the research that comes up who knew that it

1:47

had been around this long so able

1:49

to get into it yeah a little bit of housekeeping

1:51

not a lot here other than that we are so

1:54

looking forward to seeing whoever is coming

1:56

to the true crime podcast festival in a couple

1:58

of weeks in dallas it's the sold

2:00

out but we are so excited to hang

2:02

out with our feel like we did a crime com in vegas

2:04

even this is gonna be more intimate

2:07

yeah because it's a tighter venue we love it

2:09

right now we're putting the final touches on

2:11

our production in conjunction

2:13

with be amazing doctors of

2:15

women and crime on the sherry pepe

2:18

any case and for all

2:20

the other upcoming events that we have please go

2:22

to our live events page on our website yeah

2:24

hey so

2:25

episode was the vintage episode

2:27

in which we told you the story of compulsive

2:30

liar and murderous louis

2:31

the people who was a

2:33

one woman wrecking machine and

2:35

and live in the early nineteen twenties

2:38

she's a real piece of work so

2:40

please go check out episode one l five

2:42

a talented mrs p c

2:44

game and a mega read my

2:47

, i saw

2:49

as the wrecking ball z was the

2:51

ready ball absolutely ready ladder

2:53

we

2:53

watching listening reading to this man

2:55

you had a lot on your plate

2:57

last month i did and i have completed

2:59

some of that and i'm focusing on

3:01

some other things it's much less right now

3:03

i have lined up another documentary

3:06

that isn't consideration for one

3:08

of our next episodes won't reveal it as

3:10

will cover when we come up but it is on

3:12

netflix everybody's watching it and

3:14

it's a another disturbing one

3:17

isn't it amazing that we we have a go to

3:19

channel for actually well done crime

3:21

documentaries tennis far as what i'm reading

3:23

i'm actually not read anything right now i'm trying to complete

3:25

a twenty hour continuing education

3:28

course on personality disorders and lemme

3:30

tell ya well usually with

3:32

see he uses we call them i'm like

3:35

half asleep during them and i'm like okay

3:37

i know this i notice any of us this is one

3:39

where it's actually taking me

3:42

probably four times as long because

3:44

the information is so good and so

3:46

dense that i'm constantly hitting the rewind

3:48

button like i'm an elliptical at

3:51

the machine going totally crap i need to

3:53

hear him say that again back it up back it up back

3:55

it up really good and in a couple of months

3:57

when we do a follow episode on personality

3:59

disorder

3:59

we'll be bringing right animation

4:02

into an episode what do you do as i guess i

4:04

have more time doing on works

4:06

us in the last month because i have been cranking

4:08

at through some

4:09

they actually know what it is i had a training

4:11

that was down by l a x airport and he drove

4:13

to five days a week or so i had lots of

4:15

audible listening time i actually in one

4:17

week listened to two and a half books

4:20

so i while reading

4:22

i have finished the early years part one

4:24

the further serious crimes of george hotel

4:27

by people now so i finish that

4:29

i finished a what called

4:31

the culture code by daniel [unk] oil

4:33

and it's all about the study of

4:35

highly actors works groups

4:37

like the navy seals the team at pixar

4:40

just like really interesting stuff about

4:42

what makes a science behind what

4:45

makes a really good work group i also

4:47

read by the hidden history

4:49

culture and science of bisexuality by doctor

4:51

julia saw so nice to see

4:53

all that research put into one place because it's such

4:55

a forgotten topic is the

4:57

lgbtq plus the space

5:00

very much so yeah i was really really informative

5:03

and then i'm about halfway through trigger

5:05

points hi mark on mentioned

5:08

in our school shooters episode and

5:10

and then i'll be able to see him present

5:12

at a conference i'm going to xl

5:15

as well as podcast wise i've

5:17

been listening to ceiling by david

5:20

kessler

5:20

the green and breedlove her he

5:23

has a podcast it's wonderful

5:25

yeah he was a guest speaker eta

5:28

training that i was putting on a couple

5:30

of weeks ago so i got to my

5:32

day that i love the podcast how

5:34

do you like the podcasting game and he's the he's

5:37

so funny looks up at me

5:38

like much

5:41

more time

5:42

oh he's a bike i am not a person

5:44

that sits in a dark room by myself and talks

5:46

like that's not me

5:47

and i'm like a bright wonderful bells you're

5:50

giving center get back to people do

5:52

so that and then everyone

5:55

is a check out media circus by kim goldman

5:57

it's really really good each episode

6:00

really hone in on a person and

6:02

that's why true crime and the ridiculousness

6:04

of a media first one is my

6:07

the father from the park when shooting and

6:09

it's

6:09

wonderful she has an episode

6:11

with amanda knox were man

6:14

amanda knox

6:14

like a master class on

6:17

how to deal with publicity and

6:19

city reporters and all of that

6:22

and continuing

6:24

the have to deal with unbelievable

6:26

yeah scrapping us from people online i read

6:28

some of the comments when she tweet i now and

6:30

i think what is wrong with you people

6:34

throw there you go and

6:36

then t v show wise i watched the terminal

6:39

list on amazon prime

6:41

really good about a navy seal who comes back

6:44

from a mission were essentially

6:46

his whole team was wiped out but it has to do with

6:48

pts and then kind of this

6:50

is there a delusional disorder going

6:53

on you don't really know so

6:55

it's it's al [unk] action total action

6:57

packed but also has these themes underlying

6:59

i will say it was like screaming at my tv a couple

7:01

of times because there were some scenes where it was kind of like

7:04

negotiating and it was terrible it was like they

7:06

need me to consult on this he would never say

7:08

that the , bouts like

7:10

watching anything with my

7:12

husband husband that's historical

7:15

and you'll go off the door

7:17

knob the doorknob is from forty

7:20

years later look at the window paying those windows

7:22

didn't even know even watch anything but

7:24

not going mess because he's literally

7:26

an art director like come on a

7:29

lot of high roller yeah i was going

7:31

to tell you one of the things i just stood pickup

7:34

which for my complete nerd

7:36

self is net flicks drops

7:38

a wonderful wonderful series that

7:40

is based on that neil gaiman graphic novel

7:42

called the sandman novel

7:45

called has been around for years we

7:47

are now at the time or something like this

7:49

could actually be produced because

7:51

it requires so many special effects and

7:54

it is i mean i don't know if you're

7:56

not a fan of this sort

7:58

of really intellectual

7:59

the to see i don't know if you'd enjoy

8:02

it but it is really challenging

8:04

your what i think you'd probably just turn off

8:06

the sound and turn on your favorite music

8:08

and watch the visuals and you probably live in separate

8:10

file the story alway yeah wow

8:12

yeah dot on more

8:14

i've been mckenna dot watching xl

8:16

okay so

8:17

we we are talking about

8:18

episode one of the netflix series

8:21

web of make believe death

8:23

lies in the internet and episode one is

8:25

called

8:26

i swat

8:28

the whole series was released earlier this

8:30

year and has six total

8:32

episodes

8:33

the a variety of different internet

8:35

based crimes inappropriate behavior

8:38

kind of like what's the wild west of

8:41

the internet is these days this

8:43

as a rotten tomatoes score of eighty

8:45

percent so pretty

8:46

andy internet movie database description

8:48

of the production says conspiracy

8:51

fraud violence murder what

8:53

starts out virtual can get real all

8:55

too quickly and when the web is worldwide

8:58

so are the consequences of first

9:00

episode is great their have different

9:02

directors this one is directed by brian

9:05

nap and burger we'll talk more about our

9:07

ratings at the end and good say up front

9:09

that a pretty good job i'm pretty impressed

9:11

when you give her money for big trigger warning on this

9:13

one that there is murder

9:16

gun violence police violence if

9:18

that is triggering for you so please

9:20

be aware and also there is

9:22

a significant and disturbing

9:24

amount of suicides related

9:26

to this documentary that is

9:28

absolutely heart rending so please

9:31

be careful going into listening to what

9:33

we're saying today as well as watching it because

9:37

lined up by flats i like

9:40

the habit swatting intake

9:42

by focusing on one approval

9:44

ethic perpetrator from los angeles

9:46

this story gives us so

9:48

many thought provoking is used to consider like

9:51

the impact of advice childhood

9:53

experiences on behavior the

9:56

influence of gaming culture as

9:58

well as kind of this

9:59

living in almost all online life

10:02

to trolling behavior widespread

10:04

impact of trauma and issues

10:07

we use of force

10:09

so what the hell is fighting sky

10:11

i think we need to start off with a

10:12

a definition here yeah it looks

10:14

just used like the textbook definition

10:17

it's on one of the first google searches that

10:19

comes up persuading and is the action or

10:21

practice of making a prank call to emergency

10:23

services in an attempt to bring

10:26

about the dispatch of a large

10:28

number of armed police officers

10:30

to particular address callers sometimes

10:32

use what's called stuffing technology

10:34

to make it look as though the call is coming

10:37

from inside the victim's home or at least

10:39

nearby so spoofing technology allows

10:42

voice over internet protocol to

10:44

the same area code and the same

10:47

designator code for

10:49

a call making it very very difficult

10:51

for law enforcement to track down the

10:53

source of the call so an expert interviewed in the

10:55

documentary says that this phenomenon

10:58

goes back about twenty years starting

11:00

with the gaming community and and and f

11:02

b i publication that we found it warned

11:04

against swatting as far back as two thousand

11:06

and eight so it seems to get more widespread

11:08

law enforcement attention around that time

11:11

although day site incidents happening as

11:13

far back as two thousand two so yeah

11:15

about twenty years now swatting

11:17

is problematic on a number

11:19

of levels the average cost is ten

11:22

thousand dollars in resources utilized

11:24

for that kind of response and that can vary

11:26

from area to area for your in a large urban

11:28

area maybe a large police

11:30

force can absorb it a little bit better

11:33

but if you're a rural police force bad

11:35

is going to be an enormous strain

11:37

on your yearly budget

11:39

yeah and i would say you know in a

11:41

high populated area metropolitan

11:44

there you have a bigger footprint you begin

11:46

to go and right set up the swat trucks

11:48

and have everything locked down and the you're shutting

11:50

down neighborhoods and businesses and

11:52

it to get pricey when you start looking just outside

11:55

what it costs to get forty top sarah

11:57

whenever very good point so but clear

11:59

the a complete waste of resources

12:02

i mean is just absolutely wasting resources

12:04

and taking away law enforcement from

12:06

other issues that may be occurring also something

12:09

that we don't touch on in this episode is that sometimes

12:11

swatting is used as a diversionary

12:14

technique if someone is trying to create

12:16

or get away with crime in another

12:18

area of town that has not been

12:20

so well resources what we're talking about

12:22

today but it is a phenomenon but as happened

12:25

in the past so we have two main ways

12:27

in which this phenomenon is out in the world

12:29

in action first online gamers

12:31

online gamers will swat each other after

12:33

getting passed over a video game and then because

12:35

they're live streaming with one another the

12:37

perpetrator literally watches live

12:40

as the police respond and enter the room

12:42

of the victim with guns drawn to very

12:44

very dangerous situation the documentary

12:47

shows multiple examples of this

12:49

i found them to be incredibly terrifying

12:52

that i mean yes

12:54

you're watching a guy playing gaming all

12:56

the sudden the cops bust into his room

12:58

and eat like what the hell

12:59

yeah and like , the hell

13:02

right but they are approaching

13:04

it like someone is being hurt

13:06

someone is being kidnapped by oh they are

13:08

they're using for the most part they're using

13:11

what they're feel to be the appropriate protocol

13:13

but that does come up in this documentary unfortunately

13:16

with very consequential results also

13:18

we have the prank of swatting

13:20

state and hate using the word prank

13:23

second that's what it is now what

13:25

it's like the most deadly potential

13:27

for prank that potential think exists but cranking

13:30

swatting celebrities were some

13:32

unknown person calls in the incident

13:34

to a celebrity's home because it'll make really

13:36

big news and example of this is in

13:38

two thousand and twelve a twelve year old boy

13:41

responsible for swatting ashton

13:43

kutcher justin ,

13:45

and a bank and for the aston

13:47

call the comments of the call advised

13:50

that they were individuals inside the location

13:52

with guns and explosives and that

13:54

several people had been shot so a twelve

13:57

year old boy came up with us

13:59

now

13:59

it it multiple times my goodness

14:02

so let me take a moment to just expand

14:04

on when swat response to a

14:06

because they i think i went on a little

14:09

many silo rants during are trolling

14:11

episode on this but i wanted to give

14:13

more detail on information and i did

14:15

end up talking to a swat

14:18

commander that works at a pretty

14:20

big law enforcement agency in

14:22

the it states or talk about the stuff to make

14:24

sure i had it right but essentially swat response

14:27

to this view types

14:29

of incidents meaning they do

14:31

high risk the search warrants and those

14:33

are all preplanned so

14:35

if they know that they're doing a search warrant

14:37

for someone who

14:39

is going to be arrested that has access to access lot

14:41

of weapons or has or has dangerous

14:44

history definitely the swat team has been

14:46

a roll out surround the house call them

14:48

out try to resolve that that way and

14:50

then there's your spontaneous incidents

14:52

the once they're not planned for so especially

14:54

bigger metropolitan areas the swat

14:56

team that's just their assignment in their kind

14:58

of on standby hi training

15:00

and and doing what they need to do on the

15:02

downside that also they're they're at the ready

15:05

to respond to be spontaneous incidents

15:07

so those include barricaded subjects

15:10

were his weapons or he

15:12

was title subjects with the weapon or

15:14

maybe they don't have a weapon but they're on an

15:16

elevated platform and

15:18

the me to situations a patrol

15:21

officers who are first to respond really

15:23

aren't making any headway so they

15:25

are there to help with

15:28

the special

15:28

the weapons and tactics which

15:31

is what's what

15:31

more and some of those tactics or

15:33

things like negotiating teams

15:36

and of course the technology

15:38

that helps resolve these issues that

15:40

just your average patrol officers don't have

15:43

so you know i think we talked before could

15:45

someone actually pretend to be

15:47

the a girl a victim hiding in a

15:49

closet and calls it an

15:51

animal

15:51

team just shows up like that

15:54

not really know what

15:56

happens

15:57

is really patrol is going to get

15:59

their first thinking

15:59

the fastest there are

16:01

deployed out in the city there are you driving around

16:03

waiting for radio calls whereas the swat team

16:05

has to like get all their equipment ready to have

16:07

to get the call the have to go get all the trucks death

16:09

to assess the situation

16:11

even feel that meet their criteria because

16:13

they have a certain criteria before they

16:14

roll out and then is it meet

16:17

that criteria they will then go

16:19

out there but oftentimes as somebody

16:21

who is part of a negotiation team and

16:23

response with swatch usually patrol

16:25

has been out there trying to resolve the situation

16:28

for at least a couple of hours

16:30

so it's not like the swatting call com

16:32

then and

16:33

swat team is first to respond

16:36

and arrives yes you can have your armed officers

16:38

because they're all arms by you're not going to have

16:40

an entire team so it does

16:42

the hours by the time swat gets there is

16:44

there's a known hostage situation

16:47

i've seen it go a couple of ways one

16:49

is that it's spontaneous you

16:51

get the information right away that years

16:54

has barricaded subject that a second a hostage

16:56

so that kind of falls and one the line of what i've already

16:58

talked about the other is i've

17:00

had one call early in my career

17:02

where they knew that there was a kidnapping

17:05

and they had located where the kidnappers were

17:07

holding the individual

17:09

and so they were going very slow and methodical

17:12

it's a plan to go and

17:14

get these suspects and dissipating

17:17

that would turn in you a hostage situation

17:19

so that was kind of a slowdown lesson

17:21

the much brief we know where these people are holed

17:23

up that and then we can sort of execute

17:25

this essentially what would be like an arrest

17:28

warrant or a rescue mission at that point so

17:30

just a couple of ways for people to think about

17:32

it you know it's it's really dynamic if is really

17:34

serious i like to think that like the north hollywood

17:36

shootout or it wasn't a sweaty the situation

17:39

but it was unfolding in real time clearly

17:41

it was obvious that's what was needed and

17:43

they just responded from wherever they were at right

17:45

away without probably without even being

17:47

called to be honest all that he just

17:49

responded and then engage

17:51

if the suspects immediately but that was very

17:53

dynamic an unusual

17:56

if there is after the loss of life

17:58

company like not

17:59

he did officers are going

18:02

in to rescue so again this kind of hearkens

18:04

back to active shooter type situation

18:07

officers no matter who they are should be going

18:09

into rescue eliminating the threats

18:11

and rendering aid to anybody

18:13

who's who's injured there but when i spoke

18:16

to this swat team leader said

18:19

that he has

18:21

screened a few swatting calls but

18:23

a swat team and this isn't a huge city the

18:25

swat team has never actually responded

18:28

to a swatting call so patrol

18:31

oh or asking a few more questions

18:33

a really good at figuring this out now

18:35

that like what's going on skis

18:37

like we don't even rotterdam like it's basically

18:39

figured out by the time they're calling

18:41

us because they've been out there for hours detectives

18:43

are doing some that's the good of work behind the scenes

18:46

and that they have literally never showed up

18:48

to one so it's when you hear about this in big

18:50

cities or you know hollywood celebrities

18:52

of things like that

18:53

the patrol officer show and up that's very

18:55

interesting and i i wonder if

18:57

it has to do with the documentary

18:59

that we're talking about or maybe not just

19:01

this documentary but the incidents that have

19:03

resulted in loss of life from

19:06

an over response mean it sounds like

19:08

having experienced patrol out

19:10

there to get a bead on the situation

19:12

is absolutely the right thing before you

19:14

jump in with all these things although we are talking

19:17

about someone who perpetrated bomb

19:19

threats as well which is trump a big

19:21

deal so in the documentary

19:23

we are introduce our main perpetrator this

19:25

is a real person is a documentary his name

19:27

is tyler barest is a young man who did

19:29

not graduate from high school and

19:32

really lived majority of his life

19:34

primarily online his father

19:36

was deceased his mother had moved away

19:38

leaving him to be raised by

19:40

his grandmother and from a young

19:43

age he was living his life

19:45

online streaming constantly

19:47

his friends were mad primarily online and he

19:49

was isolating himself fully in

19:51

the world of halo playing hours a day as

19:54

we learn about him through his ex girlfriend and some

19:56

swanning experts to documentary overlays

19:58

reenactments and voice recording filers

20:00

to sing and nine one one calls an interview

20:03

content

20:05

didn't you think that he was probably dead the

20:07

way they kinda started it like i was

20:09

thinking oh they're playing and squeeze like

20:11

recording a week leading

20:13

me to believe the sit with them alive and

20:15

oh no i've been following this for years

20:18

thought it was a one thing i knew that was a prison

20:20

phone call because it says you know your

20:22

call is done to deliver at the beginning

20:24

oh i don't remember receiving a phone call

20:26

from disaster me a bit of

20:29

, society and nine one one thousand yeah

20:31

but i had the i've been following this because i remember

20:33

when it happened and the results i didn't

20:35

know who he was and i wasn't

20:37

following that but the idea of swatting

20:40

and also because part of my day job

20:42

i get river only only who

20:44

do this kind of focus on a regular basis

20:46

because other mental illness many times

20:48

that driven i'm not we're not going to

20:50

say whether or not miss cases driven on it but we'll talk

20:52

about some aspects of about that must

20:54

have heard it on the who's the after

20:57

playing tyler doctor stein tier

20:59

thank you for bringing that up so tyler

21:01

i mean again good production were in tibet

21:03

more but tyler is played throughout the

21:05

reenactments in the documentary by a

21:07

very good friend of mine malik rabbani and

21:10

he's an actor here in los angeles his career

21:12

is really taking off and i'm just

21:15

so happy to see him play this role

21:17

and inhabit this character in such

21:19

a disturbing like as malik is missing

21:21

nicest most ensues

21:23

yeah stick up happy guy you've

21:26

ever seen and he is really showing

21:28

his acting chops because there are sites that

21:30

are really quite yelling throughout the

21:32

dot i want to give him a shout out for the work that he

21:34

does are in a d escalation training

21:37

program for law enforcement where he plays a

21:39

very difficult character

21:41

that police have to use their skills on

21:43

to the escalate him and get him to come down

21:46

off the edge of a building he's one of six factors

21:48

that volunteer their time to engage in

21:50

this program and it is incredibly

21:52

valuable the law enforcement i work with

21:54

at the into the we'd walk away just raving

21:56

about what about you will experience malik

21:59

is malik big part about well as a

22:01

other five actors who are all wildly

22:04

talented so from the beginning of his documentary

22:06

the main character tyler discloses

22:08

how he got started and swatting so

22:10

she had a friend that did it first and

22:13

then tyler wanted to one up his friend

22:15

and he decided that he would go big

22:17

and he evacuated a college

22:19

with a bomb threat and it was on the news so

22:22

he said that he wanted to make headlines and he definitely

22:24

made headlines and after that first one see

22:26

new that with this spoofing

22:28

technology could do it anywhere in

22:30

the us to be sourced doing this to high schools

22:32

and junior highs and then swats people

22:34

in the halo community be reported that he

22:36

felt unstoppable others would praise

22:39

them for being so cool and being able

22:41

to pull it off but this is really

22:43

a representation of one of the darker aspects

22:46

of his online world and his girlfriend

22:48

eventually just decides she's gotta get

22:50

out into the real world's you realize like i'm spending

22:52

way too a summer mine fancy his last

22:55

to this live online and he starts

22:57

getting what he i guess what he thinks are all

22:59

of his needs being met through online gaming

23:01

and he's actually swatting but clearly says

23:03

a lack of interaction in real

23:05

life contribute to

23:07

is really horrible behavior yeah

23:10

i think as the dead place to pause and ten of god or

23:12

psycho babble corner to just talk

23:14

about like what's going on for him right now

23:16

when the girlfriend is talking about that

23:18

it's almost as if all of his other friends kind

23:20

of were like okay let's like grow up and

23:22

we have to like move on to adulthood

23:24

and live our lives but he doesn't

23:26

send the he so invested in this

23:28

the name and you see flavors

23:31

of trolling to like the nth

23:33

degree right with the accents

23:35

and what's happening and and really stepping

23:38

off line with some terrible

23:40

behavior into the real world

23:43

and bring in the police and and impacting

23:45

factor

23:46

you know why right so as

23:48

a review our research for episode on the

23:50

psychopathology internet trolls we discussed

23:52

the paradigm of a dark tetrads

23:55

that exists these individuals and

23:57

that use a combination narcissism

24:00

psychopathy machiavellian islam

24:03

and sadism that so

24:05

all of these qualities really

24:07

kind of come out throughout the documentary you're really

24:10

seeing this presented and you're also seeing

24:12

it being egged on by

24:14

other members of the community and there's

24:16

almost like a glorification of

24:18

that really demeaning terms

24:20

that they yell at each other while they're playing

24:23

supposedly as friends there stone

24:25

going after each other and really violent way

24:27

yeah i even back in two thousand

24:29

and eight summit b s b i

24:32

have a cases

24:32

they found they had gone and interviewed

24:35

perpetrators and they were finding that's

24:37

individuals were basically doing

24:40

it bragging rights because you know they're trying to get the

24:42

bombardiers and it like done

24:43

what did the motivation here we're

24:45

not understand he is this a generational

24:47

thing but really it came down to

24:50

i didn't write an ego vs

24:52

really any sort of monetary gain that

24:55

we see with so many crimes and

24:57

stuff sense as well i

24:59

do it because i can

25:00

i want to build on that so i

25:02

agree they're doing it because they

25:04

can are also doing it because

25:07

their lives are so thigh load

25:09

into one particular facet

25:12

without the impediment

25:14

and challenge and elevation

25:16

of interpersonal relationships in real life

25:18

so they may say that they are doing

25:20

it for ego but they're also doing it

25:22

because their ego is not being fed and

25:25

any other way the way the rest of us deal

25:27

with diet so when you're really emotionally

25:30

stunted yourself by scientists and look i'm

25:32

not digging on video games there are plenty

25:34

of people that play violent video games

25:36

that are completely fine but

25:39

there are people that fall into the slice

25:41

they have another set of and if they have

25:43

another set of characteristics that can

25:45

be aggravated by best then

25:47

the potential there is very dangerous so from

25:49

the book video games crime and

25:51

next jan deviance i want to

25:53

give you a quote now and is important to note

25:56

that when swanning is used as a prank in

25:58

as a performer back we

26:00

get the name to be visually consumed

26:02

by others who are already watching the

26:04

victim media platforms such as

26:06

twitch dot tv so therefore

26:08

it's separating from other types of prank calls for

26:10

you don't see it unfold on minor nuisance

26:12

almost this like and voyeurism

26:15

yes that comes into play right so

26:17

they also go on to state that in order

26:19

for the refocusing to be successful

26:21

the act of swatting needs to be dramatic

26:23

almost cinematic which captivates

26:26

the online audience the perpetrators of swatting

26:28

are aware of these give a

26:30

cinematic effect second half and thus

26:32

they only call in crimes which are likely

26:35

to see a swat team respond wow

26:38

yeah definitely i think you nailed it there's

26:40

an added element of voyeurism

26:42

is also feeding the other pathologies

26:44

here so i guess we can say

26:46

lawyer rhythm and sadism to my

26:48

combined which is we haven't really had

26:51

the opportunity to talk about that in

26:53

many other episodes hillary really

26:56

, specific example about yeah

26:58

sen al he came up with assess for years

27:01

and we're in a time keep it up for deadly

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and dress dress just

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as ours we should write at some

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of fifty thousand dollar test price

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point sure the casino one mine i

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was only playing for fun so when

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was a dream come true have you seen

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it was america online

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sources

30:37

is that com which

30:39

, this is a review the terms

30:41

and conditions apply see

30:47

so would go back to tyler around this time

30:49

his grandmother really starts to be com

30:52

afraid of him due to his

30:54

temperament keys rage fall he has mood

30:56

swings in two thousand and fifteen she's watching

30:58

the news and he comes in in the room

31:00

and says hey i could evacuate

31:02

that new station with a bomb threat there were watching

31:05

a local channel here kbc it's

31:07

on channel seven here in l a and grandmother convince

31:09

them as she's watching it unfold and

31:12

he threatens her

31:13

the turned to his grandmother the woman that

31:15

is been taking care of him since

31:18

he was like an infant and he threatened

31:20

her with harm if she tells anyone

31:22

like really threatens her with

31:24

great bodily harm so she did

31:26

a really smart thing she has a friend who

31:28

was a retired police officer and

31:31

that sets and emotion tyler

31:33

being finally arrested for

31:35

the first time to l a police agency

31:37

start talking about similar cases that they've

31:39

experienced particularly schools being evacuated

31:42

and they play the tape for his grandmother

31:44

and she is absolutely able

31:46

to identify his voice on he to the calls

31:49

and eventually a link him to calls to

31:51

out the country including evacuation

31:53

of airports

31:54

he end up spending sixteen months in jail

31:57

and his grandma

31:58

it gets a restraining order

31:59

are you get outta jail he goes right

32:02

back home and by

32:03

wait the court order so this is

32:05

a guy who didn't graduate from high school

32:07

he has no life skills no

32:09

job experience and easter

32:10

so i didn't even know how to be homeless

32:13

when i got out of jail

32:14

yeah in his inner use me he being

32:16

interviewed from prison and

32:18

, very open about it i don't know how to be

32:20

homeless on the how to do anything in

32:22

regards to activities of daily

32:24

living and taking care of himself that i was

32:26

particularly struck by how flat

32:29

as aspect is like his vocal aspect

32:31

yep is very monotone

32:33

very matter of fact and dispassionately

32:36

even says something that's quite chilling he

32:38

talks constantly about just

32:40

casually he says that he might yell wasn't

32:42

afraid going to jail mean yards to see is

32:44

what it is i got to deal with it and the

32:46

idea that someone in his

32:48

late teens early twenties right has

32:50

done something so egregious

32:53

and gotten in trouble with and you're being taken

32:55

to l a county jail whole s and

32:57

you are not afraid of

32:59

it and i don't think that he was showing bravado

33:02

yeah i was afraid of i think he actually

33:04

was a which is another factor in iraq

33:07

as them disconnect weekend right right

33:09

like this disconnect between any remorse

33:11

for what he's doing and then

33:13

lot of fear fear

33:15

you're right l a county jail a terrifying so

33:18

far a young kid like that i didn't think

33:20

it was posturing either so

33:23

either

33:23

the way to suffering order he goes back to jail

33:25

for several months and when he gets

33:27

out he's staying at a homeless after an

33:30

starts hanging out basically the public library

33:32

all day theres air conditioning their

33:34

shelter and there's internet so

33:37

see goes right back

33:39

to saudi now also for pay

33:42

people are now hiring him

33:44

like for twenty to fifty bucks

33:47

per cent a wide that he can pull

33:49

off persuading incident he can pull off

33:52

and he's enjoying doing it

33:54

he then has like has shit ton

33:56

of twitter accounts but basically but

33:58

basically twitter accounts

33:59

in bragging about

34:02

his escapades and swatting

34:04

and does about thirty

34:06

seven cases of

34:07

wanting during that time wow from

34:09

a public library on a smartphone

34:12

using up vo ip so

34:14

he can continue to spoof the numbers and he's

34:16

good at just somewhat disguising his voice

34:18

although the more you listen to the different examples

34:20

it's clear it's the same person which is what the

34:22

police were able to do

34:24

that one expert investigator was like

34:26

i just i knew it was his kids i

34:28

can spot it or hear it in in

34:30

a second but yeah he's described as a one

34:32

man wrecking crew basically and in

34:34

two thousand and seventeen as the fcc

34:36

is holding meetings on net neutrality

34:39

tyler decide to call in a threat

34:41

to the federal building where the meetings are being

34:43

held and this is a pretty big deal

34:45

is one net neutrality was

34:47

have a big issue that we're looking

34:49

at moon show

34:50

when also taylor has like this big

34:52

presence on twitter which thousands

34:54

of followers that are just chomping at the bit

34:56

to see what he does next but he claims he wasn't

34:58

trying to disrupt the voting like you don't really care

35:01

about that he just wanted attention

35:03

to his twitter account that day

35:05

i'm how twisted is that i

35:07

completely agree i mean net neutrality was a

35:09

very big deal with the time and

35:11

what the the government was trying to do

35:14

blaze make the playing field for smaller

35:16

businesses even more difficult and

35:19

they were poo pooing the need for

35:21

low income businesses and mom

35:23

and pops to be able to access high speed internet

35:26

anyway was a huge deal care ,

35:28

that good know care about that so with a documentary

35:30

is leading up to this point is the

35:32

real fear from law enforcement

35:35

of the risk of someone dying due

35:37

to a swanning and snap unfortunately

35:39

near worst fears come true so here

35:41

we have here we where to gamers are playing

35:44

together fan for a dollar

35:46

fifty one of them accidentally

35:48

kills the others character and they lose

35:51

so these two or teammates and they're supposed

35:53

to be fighting a common enemy and

35:56

one of them either gets paid

35:58

or he accidentally his

36:00

partners air your site and they

36:02

lose the game so i think

36:04

that one dollar fifty been outcomes and for

36:06

whoo what team was gonna win the game so

36:09

but these two guys that were working together now

36:11

get into a huge online suit about this

36:13

the one who's virtual character got

36:15

killed contact tyler to swat

36:18

has game her friend and the friend and sends

36:20

the address and thompson minicamp

36:22

one also potential ,

36:24

goes yeah try at at

36:26

you're actually gonna do this ah there's

36:28

my interest or call

36:30

the police saying that he just shot his father

36:32

and father had and was holding his entire

36:34

family hostage at gunpoint adding i've

36:37

already poured gasoline oliver the house oliver

36:39

might just said it on fire yeah unbelievable

36:42

the is unbelievable you think i'm like okay they're

36:44

playing for a dollar fifty the thats just

36:46

okay whatever and then they're gonna get so

36:48

upset at each other with this world

36:51

of online gaming and then they're

36:53

gonna start trying to bring tyler and to like

36:55

shit talk to him and see if

36:57

he can actually do it all for like

36:59

this other like twitter online presence

37:01

is just and we we could do an anti

37:03

your episode just on life online especially

37:05

for younger people and generations but

37:07

again like i want to kind of breach year for

37:09

psychobabble corner because we've talked

37:11

about paris social relationships and a lot

37:14

of different ways on our show before and

37:16

i think that happens in gaming

37:18

as well and going back to

37:20

the book video game

37:22

crime and next generation deviance

37:25

they say this as with any community

37:27

these twists dot tv groups often

37:29

become quite tight knit with her own language

37:31

expected behaviors and shared jokes

37:34

but is is shared socialization

37:36

that creates the space and which birth will

37:38

an analog realities begun to overlap

37:40

a new forms of beauty and can be seen

37:42

to emerge with one such farm obedience

37:45

been the act of swatting so

37:47

it's taking this very unique set of circumstances

37:49

this unique way in which people

37:51

socialize and talking about

37:53

the garbage that comes out of that bodes that's

37:56

terrifying yeah because that's going to continue

37:58

that's not just specific

37:59

the

38:00

swatting and trolling a guy about the potential

38:02

for it to to leak into all

38:05

sorts of our world as we increasingly become

38:07

more in messed with an online

38:10

virtual aspect of life science

38:12

so aerosmith the tone of gaming

38:14

it's similar in some cases what we talked about or

38:16

described within some aspects

38:19

of the online insult community watershed

38:21

talking a lot of really cruel and violent

38:24

conversations and from what i understand it's

38:26

especially brutal for female

38:28

gamers out there the massage any and chronic

38:30

harassment awful the recent huge

38:32

event several years ago a called gamer gate

38:35

that is still controversial to this day

38:37

where that we really saw the

38:39

ugly ugly side of the gaming

38:41

community yeah yeah

38:43

a story that the kid

38:45

and this scenario who gave tyler

38:48

his address actually gives the

38:50

wrong address she gives an old address

38:52

for him

38:52

am i used to live in wichita kansas

38:54

and a man by the name of andrew finch

38:57

is they're having dinner with his mother and

38:59

a friend of his and his niece is

39:01

also in the home and they're

39:04

just going about their evening and all the sudden

39:06

the police surround the house

39:08

andrew opens the front door and

39:10

within seconds of opening this

39:12

front door is shot by an officer with an a or

39:14

fifteen police

39:16

then go up to the home they

39:19

evacuates call out and evacuate

39:21

the rest the family as they're doing this

39:23

the arctic a long time to clear a home to

39:25

make sure there aren't any suspects their andrew

39:28

is laying right there right there doorway

39:30

not receiving any medical attention and

39:33

eventually ends up slowly up slowly

39:35

of the

39:36

shut wounds the police chicken we went

39:38

back to the police station day question

39:41

man and really are confused

39:43

at the beginning they think this is a legit how incident

39:45

that has been called then but maybe not

39:47

as quickly as they should have to figure out that this

39:49

was an incident of swatting and you

39:52

know sure you have andrew

39:54

one dying of his injuries but his family

39:56

members have

39:57

the watch that literally his niece was upstairs

39:59

music not knowing any of this is going

40:02

on in make her like step over

40:04

his dying body as they take her

40:05

the front door it's really really horrific

40:08

particularly for her as

40:10

andrew was her father basically

40:12

out he had raised her since child she

40:15

he played a big part in her life you know he had a

40:17

great reputation with all of his relatives

40:20

and it really is they they talked

40:22

on the documentary how long should be

40:24

south be laid bare bleeding out when

40:27

he could have received medical attention so

40:29

this whole incident spreads like wildfire

40:32

one of the reasons that spreads like wildfire is

40:34

tyler any other gamers are pretty proud

40:36

that daves third shut up at this point

40:39

they don't know that someone has

40:41

been murdered but as the news

40:43

starts going out it just

40:45

picks up higher the internet is

40:48

littered with tyler it gets

40:50

interviewed by you tube or of years

40:52

blows your mind because now is so

40:55

lacking and inside and

40:57

compassion and empathy

40:59

and he goes on and has this interview

41:01

on the interviewer is another gamer horned

41:04

owl or you tube or who is called

41:06

doing great interview he is like holding

41:08

him to the fire us and

41:10

sees glib completely

41:13

glimmer of the whole thing but again with this

41:15

monotone delivery and this bizarre justification

41:18

for his actions and all the while he's downplaying

41:20

his role in it so you know you've hurt us here

41:23

use the term mental gymnastics before

41:25

and this is an example of it being on full

41:27

display and he also doesn't know

41:29

that the lapd are literally watching

41:31

and listening to the streaming interview and

41:33

they're able to link him to the crime out attract

41:35

the ip address my guess they arrest tyler

41:38

at the public library they're able to track

41:40

jam packed a library

41:42

on his phone giving this crazy

41:45

interview with the you tube or so

41:47

they go into they impact the documentary

41:49

iced say goes into the impact

41:51

on and her family and community and

41:53

here's where i want to give the other trigger

41:55

warning against his younger brother admits

41:58

to come contemplating suicide the

42:00

on me it was seventeen at the time that

42:02

anywhere to walk over his body she

42:04

died by suicide a year later her

42:06

boyfriend discovered

42:09

her body and then killed himself as

42:11

well horrific just absolutely

42:13

terrific i will say that the the the community

42:16

really came together

42:18

and activism and support and they brought

42:20

forth awareness and they called for accountability

42:23

for the officer who shot andrew

42:25

but despite great community action publicity

42:27

no charges were filed against the officer the documentary

42:30

talks about how kansas has

42:32

laws that do not disclose

42:34

but another online or did

42:37

some research man disclose

42:39

the name of the officer to had a history

42:42

the use of force and even was

42:44

known to have been filmed i believe

42:47

several episodes of com yes them

42:50

back to tyler he's now facing

42:52

involuntary manslaughter charges in kansas

42:54

and other swatting related charges and a whole

42:57

host of other states and he was able to

42:59

roll i mean when i say he and his defense

43:02

was able to roll all of these together

43:04

to a stat or all the fans that the

43:06

been pled guilty to receiving a twenty

43:09

year jail sentence or the other two

43:11

one is pending in the other one got several

43:13

months in jail he got off really

43:16

lively i have to say that flights on

43:18

a number of levels he got off lightly see

43:20

gotta deal with putting it all

43:22

together instead of separate charges

43:24

running one after the other side and

43:26

he got to go to club said he

43:29

has federal prisons are

43:31

a lot easier than going

43:33

to a state prison scared

43:35

, right i just

43:37

saw my got your i am eating twenty

43:39

years but this is not

43:42

just bar

43:45

and he urged him away from his family

43:47

which

43:47

clearly we deeply deeply impacted

43:50

ends attractive ways

43:53

but also all of the other

43:55

chaos that he brought you

43:57

know throughout the country so it's very

43:59

the added tragic ending

44:01

and it's still not taking

44:03

full accountability for what he does what

44:05

i'd and pull the trigger which he does

44:07

have a point he did not pull the trigger but

44:10

you know you were of the match to

44:13

the gasoline that was poured harsher

44:15

harsher i wanted to read a quote that

44:17

was mentioned by and

44:20

friends who was over for dinner that night

44:22

just because i thought

44:23

it hit home for he says quote technology

44:25

benefits people with brains intelligent people

44:28

that when technology is used by idiots

44:30

it creates chaos and it creates disaster

44:33

yeah i like that it's very

44:35

asked but i would probably

44:37

in this case been on the keys an idiot the as

44:39

cognitive deficits in some areas

44:41

or maybe some processing issues but underlying

44:44

is just whether it is

44:46

by genetics storm we trauma

44:48

that he experienced such how idol now we'll have

44:50

any details on that that but he

44:53

absolutely has the

44:55

either no empathy for an

44:57

inability to process sympathy or an

44:59

absolute hearing other

45:02

, were hurt so all of those would

45:04

be problematic and and the frustration

45:06

hear that the community has with law enforcement

45:08

is that these cases are often very

45:11

difficult prosecute because many of the perpetrators

45:13

are juveniles yeah yeah

45:15

they in the commission of

45:18

the act thought of it

45:20

as thought of or a job so

45:22

that makes it really difficult to prove

45:25

intent to cause harm so

45:27

that is illegal phrase you have to prove

45:30

intent to cause harm pray

45:32

and if you have a bunch of kids doing this in

45:34

you're talking about intense we

45:37

have all the other classes

45:38

we haven't we talk about to the committing crimes

45:41

you know what did they really think was gonna

45:43

happen to they really think through all

45:45

the consequences and why

45:48

time the answer is no and that's where you get put in a really

45:50

tough position will then what should they be

45:52

held accountable for yeah

45:54

it is very frustrating

45:56

one of those were there's so many overlapping

45:59

like live the event of responsibility

46:01

with different people especially in the death of andrew

46:04

where you did literally have somebody pull

46:06

the trigger that absolutely

46:09

for what we present in the documentary i don't have any

46:11

other information but looks like

46:14

really quick use of force were

46:16

just just the mine

46:18

and then you have all the other players that

46:20

went up to them being there are so very

46:23

very difficult circumstances

46:25

tragic all the way around but

46:27

let's move to our final the odds on it as we wrap

46:29

it up i'm really grateful that there

46:32

is something this well produced that focuses

46:34

on this really dangerous

46:37

phenomenon because it actually happens

46:39

more than the public knows

46:41

and it's important for people to

46:43

know about it and to educate their kids

46:45

and to socialize their kids again

46:48

not blaming gaming totally

46:51

arm but certainly be online versus

46:53

analog life contributed to

46:56

the development of this character to one of things that

46:58

really punched me is just about

47:00

the amount of loss and how devastating it as mean

47:02

while we can focus on how many

47:04

people are part and partying what happened

47:07

to think of as family had no support

47:09

system that can help prevent the suicide and

47:11

when i say that i know they had

47:13

friends they had family i had community

47:16

they had each other that we're offering

47:18

support that were devastated as well

47:20

but it wasn't enough and best no

47:22

judgment on anyone who was part of that support

47:25

system i don't mean that at all it's just an absolute

47:27

tragedy on the way around now getting into

47:29

this the nuts and bolts of it i think it was a really tight

47:32

watches well constructed he does a really

47:34

great job of creating an environment where

47:36

the perpetrators just talking

47:38

incriminate themselves like they are absolutely

47:41

telling on themselves and i believe

47:43

that the viewer can come away really knowing

47:46

who they are your creep radar

47:48

is just going off the chart the as

47:50

you're listening to them talks even some of the ones

47:52

are as examples of peripheral people

47:54

that they sort of take

47:56

responsibility for kind of being

47:58

involved but i don't i wouldn't

48:00

say they necessarily dismissive but i don't get the

48:02

impression that they really get it i think that's important

48:05

people to watch production values are great

48:08

also great union contract chauffeur

48:10

sag aftra which is really

48:12

great because the people that the cameraman

48:14

the lights the actors everybody involved

48:16

producers riders everybody should be paid

48:19

and getting the benefits of being a union so

48:21

gay i'm happy about that and

48:22

the you know that i wouldn't know that is

48:24

the normal viewer because i love watching

48:26

the credit when i think that indiana and

48:28

i do we will go through the credits and one the

48:31

last closing cards was the sag aftra

48:33

logo dot ets well

48:35

i think the entire internet

48:37

series to the web of make believe

48:39

is a great reminder

48:40

that's what should people are out there in the world a

48:43

little reminder isn't it yeah it is my

48:45

husband is not a to prime guy actually watched a few

48:47

episodes and he's like sisters pissed me off

48:50

at there's just a horrible people out

48:52

there like that of doing these things that would you

48:54

and for the layers i think it's

48:57

interesting for you and i to peel

48:59

back what are some of the sites

49:01

com and on issues going on under

49:03

nice overall i just thought it was a really

49:05

good watch it was really vision

49:07

the interesting again i'm so

49:09

glad that they gave time to the victim's

49:11

family to really the impact on how

49:14

they were affected and green

49:16

and element to the episode that wasn't

49:18

just don't focus on the perpetrator you

49:20

know when know when hear andrews mom talk

49:23

and she's sitting there

49:25

and she is fire

49:27

the up at how and she's

49:29

like

49:30

just like they're never going to get rid of

49:32

me i'm always gonna be pushing for this

49:35

is , is normal people

49:37

having normal people dinner at home you

49:39

know just

49:40

i did love that's despite

49:43

all the tragedy that has been around her

49:45

he resides after andrew

49:48

gas and her other son

49:50

being really impacted by this i just watch

49:52

hearing from the two of them because it was so

49:54

raw it was really hard but i think it's one of those things

49:56

that we have the responsibility to listen

49:59

to them top

49:59

i agree a pain

50:02

the new enough a smart to touch on through the issues

50:04

that the police violence and how that impacted

50:07

the community at large the it was it

50:09

was a good quick kid documentary

50:11

episode and like did a lot so i'm

50:13

going to give it for brain

50:15

i'm going to give it for brains as well i

50:17

agree encourage people to watch it and

50:20

if you are a listener in

50:22

an a and non metropolitan area

50:25

you know just gonna put it out there advocacy

50:28

for police training is

50:30

a good thing yes the escalation

50:32

training is a good thing everybody

50:34

benefits from it lies benefits from it economy

50:37

benefits from it understanding

50:39

how one person not

50:42

having appropriate training and

50:44

the awful impact that that can

50:46

have

50:47

the family on a community we should all

50:49

be aware of it right what i'll do a parts yeah

50:51

i would say maybe not having a proper training

50:53

but exhausted to see him a bad apples

50:56

sort of situation such a good point

50:58

because i since they noted that

51:00

he might have even been a member of the swat

51:02

team even that wasn't the swat team that showed

51:04

up some small agencies

51:07

it's ancillary so it's it's it's in addition

51:09

to a regular patrols

51:10

the do so i'm guessing he was

51:11

the trains but the term trigger

51:14

happy flips into my head when asia

51:16

really does and apparently there were other

51:19

shootings and use of force issues that came

51:21

out as record as well some

51:22

all right we matched with the and

51:24

the brains we gave it this week or this

51:26

month though that was a good one

51:29

thanks for that was

51:31

great yeah sticking with us you know

51:33

documentary

51:34

yeah thank you folks and cheap those

51:36

suggestions coming bees are very exciting

51:39

when we can we like watching the

51:41

multiple episode documentaries but for the

51:43

purposes of this i'm getting down and dirty

51:45

and giving you enough psychobabble to get another

51:47

perspective on what's going on the one off

51:50

episodes are really great so if you have

51:52

one that you like even going back

51:54

to stuff that's like pre internet

51:56

maybe it's on you tube or something please

51:59

let us know the email and we will

52:01

try and cover it

52:02

we will or eight every one

52:04

thank you so much and we will see you

52:06

next

52:06

i'm on l a night

52:08

though

52:09

financial

52:10

the care my that three weeks

52:14

the really thank you for spending time with us

52:16

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