0:00

Look maher oh, I see you

0:03

my own and look over there

0:05

is that culture. Yess wow,

0:08

let's cult. Ding

0:11

donges is

0:13

calling you really dug into

0:15

those syllables. My friend, Today

0:18

isn't ding dong. Today is ding

0:20

dong like today is let's

0:23

go. You gotta give the ding and the dong

0:25

a little sound extra today for the culture. I

0:28

mean, if you say so, because you

0:31

point of transparency for the listeners

0:34

for our pekf's. I asked Matt if

0:36

he wants to do the year this year. I know we've been a little

0:38

bit behind trust and believe the segment

0:40

is not done. We've got many more

0:42

years to go. But Matt said,

0:44

I don't think we can today because and he flashed

0:47

his phone screen in front of me on the zoom. He

0:49

said, we've got a lot to cover, And

0:51

I said, you're right, we have so much.

0:53

To talk about and not for nothing, but all of

0:55

these things could all have their own episodes.

0:58

So I just feel as though it's a little crowd of

1:00

this week to then. Can you imagine

1:03

like Oscar Week, like the big pop

1:05

curly album that's out, like Doune

1:07

two is out, like the Royal Family

1:09

is finally maybe in complete shambles

1:12

like I saw Madonna.

1:14

All it took was photoshop to kill the royal family.

1:17

We will get into it, but what I'm saying is, I

1:19

feel like, can you imagine if we just didn't talk

1:21

about all this and we're like, so, what happened in twenty

1:23

thirteen, Like that doesn't sense to

1:25

me?

1:25

I know. No, there's stuff happening in twenty

1:28

twenty four that we really need to

1:30

address.

1:30

And that's actually really culture number nine. There's

1:33

stuff happening.

1:33

In twenty four that we really

1:36

need to do address.

1:38

I want to start by saying, and maybe

1:40

this will make us segue into one

1:42

of those topics.

1:43

But Bowen, you

1:47

crushed this last week.

1:49

You were so good. Nice

1:52

If you didn't watch SNL yet Bowen

1:55

and Ariana Grande did Who's the

1:57

musical Guest? She did an amazing job. They did

2:00

Mulan Rouge sketch, which could not

2:02

have been easy to do, and I know

2:04

you, my girl, like you put your

2:06

foot in that one. Aha. The hardest

2:09

thing about it was just selling it as

2:11

an idea because God loved

2:13

this man and the producers. But Lauren and

2:15

me, the top brass at SNL, have

2:18

this note with everything where they're like why now,

2:20

yeah and thankfully and

2:23

it was Lauren's idea. I was like tied into

2:25

the Oscars. The Oscars are this weekend. We're

2:27

like, okay, sure, And then I looked it up. I was like, oh, Mula

2:29

Rouge the first musical nominated

2:31

for Best Picture since Beauty

2:33

and the Beast, So like there was a long

2:36

stretch of time. I guess that's what I'm doing, the

2:38

math beating the This was eighty nine or ninety

2:40

that was like ninety one, ninety one, ninety

2:42

two or something like that. That's a full decade.

2:45

Yeah, But now, of course Best Picture and

2:47

ever since the extension to ten films,

2:49

and we'll get into the Oscars later, but now it's like, oh,

2:51

movie musicals are I guess kind of commonplace

2:54

in that category.

2:55

When Mulan Rouge came out, I remember that was like

2:58

it feels like one of a million times that you've heard

3:00

like the musical is back, and then all of a sudden,

3:02

like you'll hear the musicals out again, and then.

3:04

It will come back.

3:05

Like really, what I think happens is when a movie

3:07

is good, then that genre is back. If

3:09

you can believe that people are sort of

3:12

hyperbolic about the way they talk about these things,

3:14

especially as it relates to the film

3:16

industry, like that is what happens. But

3:19

yeah, Mulan rouge. The thing that's so great

3:21

about it and the why now doesn't even really

3:23

matter because it's so iconic that

3:26

like when you see her in

3:28

that wig and that seteene wig, and like you

3:31

using that voice and like them doing this song,

3:33

even that set, like the set.

3:36

We got to give it up to the folks at SNL

3:38

Production Design. They really lea Yoshimura

3:40

legend was like, we can't do it,

3:42

and I was like, okay, well, whatever

3:45

you guys come up with will be fine. And

3:49

I love these people, but of course they have

3:51

to pull off the impossible every week. Yeah,

3:54

and they made it look incredible And

3:56

that little like palanquin thing on

3:58

top of the elephant took so much space on

4:00

the floor that we could not bring

4:02

our guests to We Can't Be Friends for the first

4:05

musical performance because there was just no room. And

4:07

I was like, oh, damn, well,

4:10

I feel bad about that. I feel bad that the guests that SNL

4:13

cannot the guests of cast could not go

4:15

to the floor and watch that song. First

4:17

of all, guests of cast will be just fine.

4:19

And I think what happens there is they watch it from

4:21

the back and they see her other performance and they're totally

4:23

fine. What was important is that you guys

4:26

were literally given the actual physical space

4:28

and emotional space to deliver that

4:30

sketch. It was really funny, Like you guys should

4:32

definitely check it out. And I really liked the other

4:34

sketch too, which was the people pleaser.

4:36

As anonymous, I thought that was really funny. Thank

4:39

you, thank you, Alison Gates. Overall,

4:41

what an amazing episode. Josh Brolan,

4:44

what a gem. He's really good,

4:46

really good, really consummate professional,

4:49

great, perfect example of a host. Yeah,

4:51

lovely, lovely man, to say nothing of

4:54

Miss Scarlett Johansson. Oh my goodness,

4:57

crushing Katie Britt.

4:59

I really I hope this doesn't become a Tina

5:01

Face Sarah Palin thing, because that means that Katie

5:04

Britt will have become part of the culture

5:06

and I really don't want that. But I

5:09

said, I haven't seen Scarlett Johansson tear up

5:11

comedy like this since.

5:12

Don John, which

5:15

I haven't seen. You haven't seen Don

5:17

John on my face, Oh

5:20

my god, Like that's

5:22

such a good one. Jose Levin Joseph Gordon

5:24

Levit, who I believe also wrote and directed it, and

5:27

Scarlett Johansson play is just like

5:31

that Long Island Staten Island

5:33

girl, like you know what I mean, Like just like

5:35

it's and she's having a lot of fun with it, and she's

5:38

like so like hot that it's so funny,

5:40

and it's just a really good one. Good at that,

5:42

Yeah, I mean, like who could forget Look at this one,

5:44

Look look at that one, Look at this one. You gotta

5:46

buy a chandeliah.

5:47

We were joking, we

5:49

were joking the other day, like someone was saying,

5:51

like, oh, Scarlett Johnson is Katie Britt, Like that's

5:53

her best comedy performance of

5:56

her entire career. I was like, yeah, well

5:58

it's up there with like you look, get this one, get

6:00

that one the chandeliers.

6:01

And I was like, oh not everyone knows that sketch.

6:03

That's so funny.

6:05

But also she did another SNL

6:07

sketch, God god god it was.

6:09

I think it was with Keenan where she was the funeral

6:11

singers. That's so good.

6:13

And then she also did a really good deep house

6:15

dish back in the deep House dishes of course my favorite

6:18

sketch.

6:18

Of all times by the time James Anderson Series

6:20

of sketches James Anderson. But she

6:23

did a song called co Check. This

6:25

Jacket's expensive, Oh

6:31

so good, So I do love it. What

6:33

a gem. Well that was really really great.

6:35

And you know, just to talk about her performances

6:38

that you must have been able to see them live a bunch ari

6:40

stuff. Yeah, yeah, I saw, I

6:42

saw her soundcheck. Just those

6:45

songs are really really, really good.

6:47

The whole album should be what do you want to start off

6:49

with the album? Let's talk about the album.

6:51

Let's talk about the album. Yeah.

6:53

I have to say, like I

6:56

am so obsessed with this and

6:58

like I can't remember a time

7:01

when I was so into

7:03

an album immediately. But actually

7:06

it dropped at so nine pm in

7:08

LA because we were on the way to see Madonna

7:11

and so so I made like a last minute decision

7:13

to go see Madonna, like because I love

7:16

the Night of I guess people sell

7:18

their tickets on ticket Masters, so the price is kind

7:20

of dip. But I was like, you

7:22

know what, what, am I crazy? Like I'm not gonna go

7:24

see Madonna? Like of course I'm gonna go and so

7:27

we'll get to that later. But on the way there,

7:30

on the way that we listened to the whole album,

7:32

like I think it was like all

7:35

the way through and then we started it over again.

7:38

I am as

7:40

someone.

7:41

Who's like culture, and like

7:43

that made me say, cultures for me is very much like

7:45

that late nineties Mariah, you

7:47

know, like this is very much

7:49

my shit. Like it's like,

7:51

tell me that something is more for me than

7:54

these R and B vocals over

7:57

these like sexy little hooks, this vocal

7:59

stocking, all these harmonies, just like avalanche

8:02

of harmonies. She does her vocal production.

8:04

She really shows the girls how it's done

8:07

with these like singer songwriter lyrics,

8:09

like with like dance influences,

8:11

and like I just feel I

8:14

feel, I.

8:15

Just feel I feel I feel, and

8:17

so does she. I feel

8:19

that. I think I

8:22

have my favorite Ari pre chorus

8:24

hook of all time, which

8:27

is something about

8:29

Mames Mady like

8:32

me maybeke him mom. It's

8:34

so like she's a siren,

8:37

that girl.

8:38

Yeah, in terms of vocals, obviously,

8:41

there's no one in her like peer

8:43

group that really is capable

8:45

of what she can do. And

8:47

I don't even mean just like singing

8:49

down like all over the place. What

8:51

I mean is like she and

8:55

I don't know if it's because of Wicked

8:57

or just because of like a way that

8:59

she's trured or a way that she feels

9:01

she needs to serve this particular album.

9:03

But the storytelling is better than

9:05

it's ever been, and I wonder

9:08

like and not to do that thing of.

9:10

Like she doesn't enunciate back in the day, but

9:12

like you know, she was loose with the

9:14

way that she would like phrase you

9:16

know what I mean, like and she would give it a lot of stylization,

9:19

whereas this is just like very

9:21

direct. She's in like this

9:23

different register than she is

9:26

oftentimes like so that you

9:29

really feel like there's something else that's important

9:31

to her here, which is like telling this story

9:34

of this these relationships,

9:36

you know, and how they interact with each

9:38

other in this concept of the Eternal

9:41

Sunshine thing, because it really is lightly

9:43

like a concept album. Yeah, and

9:46

I think of it as like not

9:48

necessarily biographical

9:51

or autobiographical. I don't think it is. Yeah,

9:53

Like I think the big tell is her

9:56

use of the word like got to get out of this situation

9:58

that it's like, okay, this is kind

10:01

of there are liberties

10:04

being taken with like real

10:08

life experiences, and that's all

10:10

I'll say. But yeah,

10:12

I think it is this thing of what

10:14

I love that I think she hasn't done in her

10:16

albums is like poses

10:19

a question at the beginning, answers it by the end,

10:21

love it perfect circle. Yeah.

10:24

Yeah, I think that she's spoken

10:26

in interviews about the fact that like it is not

10:29

autobiographical necessarily, it is based

10:31

on certain things that she's gone through. But this

10:33

isn't one thing I want to say about

10:36

sort of the macro thing, right, like the Ariana

10:38

grande of it all in terms of the past

10:41

you know, year or so, in terms of the

10:43

media narrative and stuff like that, and how that gets

10:46

filtered into the work. And I feel comfortable

10:48

like bringing it up now because

10:50

she's now made art about it. And

10:53

I want to say just a couple things.

10:56

Let me just first say that if people

10:58

are going to be like, oh, they're just being

11:01

sickophantic because bow And is friends with her, I

11:03

just I would hope that people would

11:05

think more of us than that.

11:07

And also like, if.

11:08

Like you've listened to this podcast and

11:11

you think that we're getting on here

11:14

and like doing our jobs

11:16

badly because we can't be subjective about this stuff.

11:18

You guys, we just wouldn't.

11:19

Bring it up at all. Like if we didn't

11:21

like the album and we didn't want to like hurt

11:23

her feelings, we wouldn't bring it up at all. Like,

11:26

first of all, do your research on it. I'll

11:28

speak for myself, like this is so my

11:31

shit like that, like, don't

11:33

tell me I don't like this.

11:34

This is my favorite fucking album of the

11:36

moment.

11:36

And I actually was listening to it last night again

11:39

and being like I doubt that something

11:41

even touches this, but just like I'm

11:43

not lying to you on this podcast, I

11:46

think that this album is like really

11:48

special and specific, and yeah,

11:50

sure I think it can relate to what she's gone through,

11:53

but also there's obvious things about this and

11:55

she's talked about this and spoken to this that

11:57

it's like an extrapolation.

11:59

On these kinds of things.

12:00

And this album will remain special

12:02

to me because I feel

12:05

like it really accurately depicts

12:07

that thing of when

12:10

one relationship is ending and you

12:12

can see in the forming

12:14

of something else why it needs

12:16

to end. Sometimes it feels

12:18

like you have to sort through

12:21

your like guilt, accountability,

12:24

you'll regrets about a certain thing in

12:27

order to move

12:29

through, and that's a really tough process.

12:32

And I feel like all of those emotions

12:34

are in this album, and so I commend

12:37

her in the face of what probably had

12:39

to feel like a lot of pressure. And

12:41

I'm sure for some people it will never be enough.

12:44

But what I love about this album is

12:46

it's not like flexing

12:49

on anybody. It's like very

12:53

I think it's really complex and all

12:55

the emotions that go with a

12:57

relationship ending a new one, starting

13:00

being self conscious about the way that it started,

13:02

feeling guilty, feeling excited,

13:05

feeling horny for something that's new, It's

13:07

all there in a way that like

13:11

I am really connecting too as

13:13

someone who's been in difficult relationships

13:15

and emotional situations in the past, Like I'm

13:19

feeling that there's a lot of truth and authenticity

13:21

in this.

13:22

Yes, truth and authenticity in

13:25

conjunction with like a sensitivity. I

13:28

think I can say that not

13:31

an autobiographical as an album, but

13:33

she was very, very

13:35

very purposeful about

13:39

the way people would be portrayed

13:41

in this and the way she would portray herself

13:43

in this, and how it's not a totally

13:45

like my hands were clean. It's

13:48

not like she could have absolutely put out an album that

13:50

was like I'm going

13:52

to preserve and protect things about

13:54

my own image or rest

13:58

the narrative from someone

14:01

or the media or people

14:03

in these situations. I mean, I think we can't

14:06

be friends is not necessarily a lot. It's about

14:09

her portrayal, the way the media relates

14:12

to her.

14:12

I've always felt that. Yeah, and I almost

14:15

feel like it's about her fans too, Yeah,

14:17

like.

14:17

Know that you made me. I'm watching

14:19

the lyrics. I'm still here hanging love

14:22

that wait until you love me, Like

14:24

we can't be friends, but I like to pretend.

14:27

I like to just pretend, like clean your papers and

14:29

pens. I'll wait for your love again. Like She's

14:31

like, we're in a tough spot right now, and I

14:33

get it, Like I

14:35

didn't think you would understand me, but like,

14:38

you know, it's all these things that are incredibly

14:41

fragile and I think very

14:43

nuanced and there

14:46

is I'm just sticking this is the only thing that I'm

14:48

going to acknowledge about the situation, which

14:50

is that like there is such a

14:54

unqueer, puritanical

14:57

Christian way we are approaching marriage

14:59

in the discourse very like trad wife.

15:02

I'm like, this is interesting, Like

15:04

everyone's being very like this sanctity

15:06

of marriage. Of course it is so

15:08

much more complicated than that. But at

15:11

the heart of these conversations that we've had

15:13

in like infidelity discourse

15:15

with everybody,

15:18

because I will also just say, like

15:20

the thing and we can't be friends, is like the

15:22

narrative is wrong. The narrative

15:25

is wrong. And she's not even outwardly saying

15:27

that, but the narrative has been

15:30

incorrect, and people have even retracted

15:32

things in these stories with

15:35

no fucking apology to the people who are

15:37

involved. Yeah, yep, I can

15:39

tell you for a fact that

15:42

what people out there seem to be clinging

15:44

onto correct is incorrect.

15:46

Yeah. I mean that's I guess.

15:48

Another thing of it is it's

15:51

not that people sound silly or

15:53

sound dumb. It's just watching something

15:55

in action when the truth

15:58

is something else that has

16:00

to be incredibly frustrating for

16:03

everyone. In terms of like people

16:05

attacking like the sanctity of marriage or whatever.

16:08

I think that people's point is that it's

16:10

more than that, because there was a young physic or

16:12

young family, et cetera, all these things. But

16:16

I think that and I'm just gonna

16:18

speak in terms of my personal experience here,

16:21

and I'm just gonna share this. Sometimes

16:24

I think it feels like when

16:27

you have a sort of cosmic thing happen

16:30

where you fall in love in such an intense

16:32

way, and it

16:34

almost feels like the right thing to

16:36

do is to move forward with that for

16:39

everyone involved.

16:40

Do you know what I mean? Like if you have a situation

16:42

where it feels absolute

16:45

in terms of the actionable

16:47

thing, it is so

16:51

consuming in a way that like can

16:53

be destructive, but

16:56

it cannot feel that way from within

16:58

that closed system of like two

17:01

people. I mean, it's like it makes it

17:03

cliche for like the

17:06

man to like fuck the secretary, which is

17:08

not what's happening here, but it's like it's why this

17:10

thing persists in like humanity,

17:13

you know.

17:14

Yeah, I think that we

17:17

love a gray area, and we love

17:19

like an anti hero, and we love

17:22

like something that's complicated and emotional

17:25

and fraud as long as

17:27

it's not real. I think we

17:29

want to root for Olivia Pope to fuck

17:31

that president for the rest of our life, you

17:33

know what I mean, Like we root for true love like

17:35

we've and in other senses, like you

17:38

know, fucking like we want

17:40

complexity. It feels like everywhere

17:44

else except what's real, because

17:46

then when something is real and we can make

17:48

it about us, we can become

17:51

the complex figure. But the fact

17:53

is like everyone's a human being

17:55

and like goes through things, and

17:57

sometimes this shit

18:00

is more complicated than you

18:03

would think, especially for

18:05

someone who has been

18:07

through like specific

18:10

relationship trauma, specific

18:13

emotional trauma as it relates

18:15

to the past,

18:17

the way that she's been treated, the way

18:20

that she has seen her relationships

18:23

start and end. That is something

18:25

that's like it's difficult when

18:27

you are public because

18:29

it looks it almost

18:31

looks like a sort of like thing

18:34

you can't possibly take seriously. But

18:36

the fact is, like it

18:38

is not our life. You have to

18:40

imagine that people are not doing things with

18:43

destructive impulses. You can't

18:45

imagine that anyone meets and

18:47

are like, wow, you know what we're

18:49

about to do ruin lives,

18:53

Like we're about to be emblematic for something

18:55

bad. No, no one goes out

18:57

in their life and does that. What people do

18:59

is that they go out in their life and they engage

19:02

with other people, and they engage with their emotions,

19:04

and sometimes things happen and

19:06

I feel like we are allowing a complexity

19:09

in fictional people, but not real

19:11

people. And I think it's really

19:14

crazy what happens in the

19:16

discourse. And I'm not saying you have to like

19:18

her. I'm not saying you have to like

19:21

the album. I'm not saying you have to agree with me

19:23

or agree with Bowen. But what I'm saying

19:25

is like we should probably allow

19:28

for the possibility that not everything

19:30

is exactly what it seems, because

19:33

it feels like when we

19:35

engage with entertainment that would suggest

19:37

that we're all in and we can understand

19:40

it. But then when it's a headline

19:43

about someone that we can be ready made

19:45

to criticize and hate and project

19:47

on, we lose all ability

19:50

to see shades

19:53

of gray in any situation.

19:55

And that is what's happening here,

19:57

full stop.

19:59

What's great great about it is we have this excellent

20:02

art and that we can

20:04

have a discourse about.

20:05

Sure, she could have very

20:07

easily made this a

20:09

reputation album, an album

20:12

that was like, fuck you, I've

20:15

been completely misunderstood. I

20:18

will emerge from this victorious,

20:21

if not like completely alienated from

20:24

a whole kind of narrative that's been

20:27

created out of my control.

20:29

But I think instead it's this very

20:32

fragile, delicate work,

20:36

and I think it's her most sonically

20:38

cohesive album. I think it has just

20:40

such a specific vocabulary,

20:43

Like I really think she

20:46

like came out of positions

20:48

and was, like I put out my Vibes album, let me

20:50

go back to like the root of

20:52

this thing for me, which is like I

20:54

was singing Mariah since I could talk, you

20:56

know, like, let me go back

20:58

to that. And I really

21:00

feel comfortable talking about this, and anyone who's

21:03

rolling their eyes at what I'm about to say can

21:05

really go fuck off. I

21:08

have understood in recent months

21:11

that like a media narrative can

21:13

be completely consuming

21:16

and devastating and like

21:19

frustrate you to know, and because of how

21:21

wrong it is. Yeah, and

21:25

having your name be put in sentences

21:27

along with other names as a way of like canceling

21:30

anything you do out of

21:32

like invalidating

21:34

what you do, like pushing absolute

21:37

falsehoods. I'm sorry, it

21:39

is a really fucking disorienting

21:41

thing to experience. Yeah, I'm just gonna

21:43

say that. And I'm sure people who listen to this have

21:46

experienced this on different levels, scales

21:48

bigger than mine, smaller than mine. It doesn't matter. But

21:50

you must understand that there's something universal about

21:52

this thing of like, oh no, you don't. You've

21:55

completely misinterpreted,

21:58

not even misinterpreted, just like mistaken

22:02

on a literal level, like what has

22:04

happened to me? What I have done, what I have not done?

22:07

And you can be completely

22:09

vindictive about that, or you can make the choice to

22:11

just move forward and make something out of it if

22:13

you want, cope with it, process it.

22:16

This girl knows how to process shit through her work.

22:19

Like we've known that to be true since years

22:22

and years and years ago. Like let

22:25

her cook, as we say, now you

22:27

know what I mean, leave it alone? Yeah,

22:31

just leave it alone.

22:31

That's all I mean for me

22:34

too, Like it's just what's been created

22:36

out of whatever she's gone through, like

22:38

in her old relationship, whatever she's

22:41

experienced entering a new one. Is this

22:43

really cohesive story

22:46

that I think that is eternal sunshine, which

22:48

is starting with am I in there?

22:50

Like right relationship? I don't know?

22:52

I actually am positive I'm not and for me

22:54

that's by but obviously

22:57

I slip up and there's I don't want to break up

22:59

again, Like I'm still going back and forth. I just remember

23:01

when my last relationship ended. There were so

23:03

many times where I thought I was done, you

23:05

know what I mean. There were so many times where I thought like that,

23:08

I was like on my boy by shit,

23:10

you know what I mean. But then you slip back

23:13

and you realize, like what am

23:15

I doing to hurt someone?

23:17

How have I been hurt? Like?

23:19

Do I not like this person anymore?

23:22

My favorite element of the whole album,

23:24

like my favorite section is we Can't Be Friends into

23:26

I Wish I Hated You like I had to talk

23:28

about it in therapy, like the we

23:31

Can't Be Friends music video, which really

23:33

is the story of the whole album.

23:36

I was.

23:36

I tried to cry when I first saw it, and

23:38

then I cried about it in therapy talking about

23:40

it, and then I cried about thinking about therapy

23:43

later, like I was. It was pisce seasoned

23:45

down, like and this album is coming at a

23:47

really fraud astrological

23:50

time. But I have to say,

23:52

like I Wish I hated you like that

23:55

is really ultimately at the end,

23:58

the fact that that's really the last song that's about

24:00

the old relationship before she ends it like

24:02

in a state of peace about the fact that like she's going

24:04

to try to step forward like and really

24:06

like actualize this.

24:08

Thing that she deeply believes is the love of her

24:10

life. Like the last thing that

24:12

she says is there's no

24:14

way I can justify

24:17

anything other than what I will always have

24:19

for you, which is just love. Like

24:22

I got into this relationship with you. Oops.

24:28

Oh, I got into this relationship

24:30

with you because I love you. And then that's actually never

24:33

gonna go away, Like even if

24:35

something, even if shit really goes down,

24:37

like if shit really burns down, what's

24:39

gonna always be true is

24:42

that there was so much love there.

24:44

And hopefully at the end of every relationship,

24:46

like what you can do is leave

24:48

it and you can remember

24:50

what was really important was that you loved somebody

24:53

and that they loved you back, and hopefully

24:55

that's always the leaf behind.

24:57

Yeah, I mean it should be. And of course situations

24:59

are ugly, and of course shit doesn't always make

25:01

sense. But I

25:04

guess the last thing I'll say is that we can't

25:07

we shouldn't be demanding that people,

25:09

especially artists, be perfect.

25:12

Of course, like have your opinions, like

25:14

you know what I mean, But we're

25:17

going to live in a very boring world if

25:19

everyone just acts the way that you want them

25:21

to. And if we can't ever learn

25:24

from people, and we can't ever like

25:26

absorb people, and we can't ever have like

25:28

difficult situations reflected back to us.

25:31

And this is very conflicted, I

25:33

think, at times tortured, at

25:35

times euphoric. Like the

25:37

work asks a lot of questions and answers

25:40

some of them, Like everything is very

25:42

in process, and I you know,

25:45

I hope the best for anyone that's

25:47

like representing their relationship.

25:49

Here or feel seen by the

25:52

work here.

25:52

I hope that you know, everyone

25:55

can find like a piece with love

25:57

in their life, you know what I mean. But like I

26:00

also know that cosmic

26:02

love and those feelings, you know, they don't

26:05

always pan out in the best

26:07

way. And here's what you can know. If

26:10

anyone's going to really pay for it, it'll

26:12

be the people that took the risks. So don't

26:14

you worry out there, like if

26:17

what you really want is for people that you

26:19

don't agree with to fail,

26:21

like who knows, like they just might,

26:24

But I would hope that we're not rooting

26:26

for that.

26:27

No, But you know, if

26:29

you are a big believer in karma,

26:32

if you think this invites karma, which

26:35

I'm here to tell you again that

26:37

your set of facts is not I'm

26:39

not going to reveal the actual facts because

26:42

they're not mine to reveal, but I can

26:44

say that the matrix

26:46

of information that you are using to like draw

26:49

a line to the karmaic outcome you want

26:52

is not existent.

26:54

Yeah, And I would say that,

26:57

you know, even thinking about like us going

26:59

back like five years, like some

27:01

people being like, oh if this or five years ago,

27:04

they would tear her up, you know what I mean, or like

27:06

whatever, Like.

27:06

I would hope that we don't talk about these

27:08

things the same way we did five years ago, because

27:11

maybe the tone has changed for the general

27:14

culture consuming population, you know

27:16

what I mean, Like all of us are kind of evaluating

27:18

things differently. I

27:20

mean, I don't know what to tell you. If you get the ick from

27:22

thinking that we are like defending

27:25

these people that, like most of whom

27:27

we don't really have that much of a connection

27:29

with anyway, Yeah, then fine,

27:33

I'm here to tell you, like, would

27:36

you be putting your friends your coworkers

27:38

on blast? Absolutely

27:40

not. Yeah, shut the fuck up. And it's not a

27:42

transactional thing. It's not that like this is a muzzle.

27:45

But like I'm just gonna

27:47

say this is someone who has been like a true

27:50

friend to me, and I I

27:52

love she has shown me like whatever,

27:54

not that that buys you like she

27:59

had.

27:59

But two things can be true. I believe that every

28:01

single fucking thing we just said is true. And I also

28:03

believe that you're goddamn right. If

28:06

something went down, especially

28:08

during that time when you were not having an easy

28:10

time, I knew that you had someone that was like really

28:12

looking out for you and really writing hard for you and

28:15

like really being there for you. And I will

28:17

be fucking grateful to that person forever

28:20

because there's nothing I care about more than you

28:23

and the fact that someone had your back.

28:25

Yeah, so what we are gonna fucking have that

28:27

person's back anyway.

28:32

That's the album. I love it.

28:35

I fucking love that, and also like not

28:37

for nothing, but it will be so

28:40

identifiable with a moment, and

28:42

she should feel so proud of herself. I said,

28:44

you know who's definitely proud of her for this, fucking

28:46

Mariah. Mariah would have made this album

28:49

if she was already on his age and like if

28:51

this was like that moment in time for her.

28:53

This album reminds me of many ways of Butterfly.

28:56

It reminds me of like, you know, it

28:59

reminds me of like new era Mariah, because

29:01

I do believe where this is new era

29:03

Ari, Like she talks about how you know, it's

29:06

equal parts to Mariah and image and heap.

29:08

I think that is so executed.

29:10

So well, And I don't know what

29:12

I care about ultimately is that fucking

29:14

art is good and interesting and

29:17

makes people think, it makes people feel.

29:19

This is all those things to me, well

29:22

fucking done.

29:23

I mean, like it's this is definitely gonna be one

29:25

of my favorite albums of the year and I will listen

29:27

to it forever. And I fucking love

29:29

positions. I love when Ariana Grande is

29:31

like yuh, yuh, my pussy is a

29:33

strawberry.

29:34

Like don't don't get me wrong, Like

29:36

I love pussy is a strawberry, right,

29:39

you know what I mean? Like I love I'm

29:41

rich love it and like,

29:43

but like it would have been so easy for her too to just

29:45

do an album with that and sidestep this whole

29:47

thing and be like it's me Ari yet. Yeah,

29:50

but like she did, there's not a a

29:52

miss. Okay,

30:03

what else is there in the culture that

30:05

you want to talk about? I thought they were like one of the

30:07

best oscars I'd seen in a while. Like I thought

30:10

they were delightful, it wasn't like an amazing

30:12

show for me personally, although I think the wind

30:15

never is. It never is. The winds

30:17

were very satisfying up until I would say the

30:19

end maybe, but not like

30:21

all of them at the end. But I will say

30:24

I mean the Boy and the hairn winning were

30:26

things winning the technical oscars. I was like, okay,

30:29

like this is there's an even spread

30:31

here. I am like, oh, kind of a bummer

30:33

that the only two shutouts within Best Picture

30:35

were Killers, the Fire Moon

30:37

and Maestro. Not a bummer, but it's like it would

30:39

have been. It kind of would have been like a great

30:42

thing if like all ten movies had gotten

30:45

some flowers. That's all. Yeah.

30:47

I think that, like ultimately,

30:50

the Oppenheimer of it all is kind of all

30:52

because I feel like at least I can speak for myself. I went out

30:55

of my way to see everything. I did

30:57

end up seeing Killers. I did end

30:59

up seeing out of interest zone, which

31:01

was hard. But I a one

31:03

hundred percent agree with it winning

31:06

what it won. I think the best Sound win is a

31:08

really inspired choice because

31:10

sound is so crucial to the

31:12

success and how hard

31:14

that movie hits. But it beating

31:16

Oppenheimer was obviously a surprise. But I guess

31:19

the big note there is in terms of

31:21

sound, one thing we need to be able to.

31:22

Hear is the dialogue.

31:23

Oh so that would be I guess my thing

31:26

about Oppenheimer, which I respect, it's when

31:28

I understand and respect that people

31:30

feel that that's by far the best movie of the year.

31:32

I do disagree. And I say this as

31:34

a Christopher Nolan fucking super fan I

31:36

am. I am Dark Knight hive. I

31:39

love Inception.

31:40

You can catch me weeping to Interstellar,

31:43

like you know what I mean, Like I love Christopher

31:46

Nolan. I just think this

31:48

almost tough because the length, and I do think

31:50

the sound mixing is an issue. But

31:53

you know, it did run away with pretty much

31:55

everything.

31:56

What I liked.

31:58

Was I love poor

32:01

Things, and I feel

32:03

like when it started to win earlier in the night,

32:05

I was like, oh, maybe this like two horse

32:07

Race, isn't really going Lily Gladstone's

32:09

way. And just to speak to the Lily

32:11

Gladstone and m Stone of it, all that

32:15

could have gone either way. It would have been an incredible

32:17

moment had Lily Gladstone won the Oscar. But

32:19

if you haven't seen Poor Things, then you

32:22

should. And I wish that people

32:24

wouldn't take Lily Gladstone's Oscar

32:27

loss out on emmastone because

32:29

that is so unfair, and that is, of course

32:31

the way the discourse has gone, because as we've just

32:33

said, the discourse is toxic and

32:36

decides it has to be one thing and

32:38

it's so black and white. There has to

32:40

be heroes and villains. So Lily

32:42

Gladstone has to be a hero here and Emma

32:44

Stone has to be a villain here because she's won

32:46

the Oscar. When Emma Stone is fucking

32:49

talented as shit, what she decides

32:51

to do with her movie stardom is like produce

32:53

things like Poor Things, which is thought

32:55

provoking and radical and feminist and

32:58

really cool, and she's

33:00

producing problemsta like please

33:03

miss me with like she's emblematic

33:06

with racism and like some

33:08

sort of like bigger thing than it is, Like, do

33:10

not take it out on her if you're disappointed for

33:12

Lily, that's fine. Her career

33:14

is forever change. She's now an Oscar nominated

33:17

actress. She's the most famous person

33:19

coming out of that conversation because everyone's rooting

33:21

for her and wanting her next thing, her

33:24

career will be fine, Like it

33:26

doesn't have to be fuck Emma Stone.

33:28

There's also this other thing going on where everyone's

33:30

like, well, she should have done supporting Lily

33:32

should have done supporting, and then she would have won. It's

33:35

this weird kind of post

33:38

mortem. But Kyle Buchanan was saying this, it's like, no,

33:42

by campaigning herself for

33:44

lead, she's telling Hollywood,

33:46

I am alle taking me seriously, taking

33:48

me seriously. Absolutely, she

33:51

should have no regrets. No one should believe

33:53

that she should have done things any differently. She

33:55

pulled off a flawless campaign

33:58

start to finish, not a single misstep. And yes,

34:00

it's frustrating that she did not take home the trophy,

34:02

but she is coming out of this a

34:05

full winner. She is moving forward

34:08

with complete power

34:10

and grace and everything that she deserves.

34:12

No super excited for I mean, I saw

34:14

she's the lead of that Hulu show that looks really

34:16

good. She won the sag Award, She's

34:19

won a Golden Globe, like and now, sometimes

34:21

I think like that helps propel

34:23

a narrative, you know what I mean, Like Emma Stone wins

34:25

this Oscar. By the way, no one looked more mortified

34:28

than emm a Stone.

34:29

Like that reaction.

34:31

Shot of her winning that Oscar, you could tell she

34:33

didn't want it like this, you know what I mean. But also

34:35

it's like last year with the Kate Blanchette

34:38

and Michelle Yo of it all, you get a sense that Kate

34:40

Blynchett started like campaigning for Michelle

34:42

Yo because she could feel this heat

34:44

breathing on her neck of like, if you win,

34:47

fuck you the person you'll have taken it

34:49

from. It's like, it shouldn't

34:52

be about that. What's important is the

34:54

art. What's important is that last

34:56

year, the Michelle Yo and Kate Lynchett

34:59

year, we had two towering

35:01

performances that were so different

35:04

that we're given by people that are the best in

35:06

their fields. And yes, the Oscar

35:08

was won by Michelle Yo. It felt incredible.

35:10

It was so deserved. It was what I was rooting

35:12

for. But what's really important

35:15

is the art that they created. What's

35:17

important is that we created the character of

35:19

Evelyn. What's important is that we created

35:21

the character of Lydia Tar And by we, of

35:23

course I mean them, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

35:26

that's ultimately what's important and this Oscar

35:28

thing. This like winning losing

35:30

narrative is like it doesn't mean that

35:32

person is a loser.

35:34

It just means that it means that like one

35:36

of them won an Oscar. Like now

35:38

we know the story of Molly

35:41

and we know Bella Baster Is this like

35:43

really fun your ghost character? Like

35:46

there is like an O Sage narrative

35:49

that is like us Hersesey directed

35:51

film, Like if

35:53

you think about it, I don't know, not that we're like

35:56

revolutionizing the way to think about

35:58

this or to like taught to like have the discord, but it's

36:00

like if I frame it in that way, it's like it's incredible

36:02

that like this was the Oscars race and like, yeah,

36:06

it's a weird. Yeah, I mean someone did a

36:08

super cut of like Emma's reaction shot

36:10

to the wind and then like cutting to like screenshots

36:13

of the discorse and

36:15

whatever. Like it's just I did see

36:17

that the spectator sport of it is like

36:20

a little gratuitous in a way that's fun and like that's

36:22

why we love Award Season. But

36:24

it just feels like it gets longer

36:26

and longer every year, and by extension a

36:29

little bit more exhausting and draining. So that by the

36:31

time it's past Sunday, I'm like,

36:33

I don't really want to think about these movies ever

36:35

again. Is that bad? Yeah? No, one hundred percent.

36:37

And I feel like the season is very

36:39

long because it feels like it starts in September and goes

36:42

to March, March to the

36:44

point where like Oscar season, like give

36:46

me a break, like this is just what it is.

36:48

I'll tell you what I loved. And I'm

36:50

clapping for the writer's branch

36:52

because we picked two great movies.

36:57

These are the categories that I like always

36:59

am elbiting about because I just always

37:03

want like the right script to be solidified.

37:05

With this Oscar whim you are a writer down.

37:07

I love that, I would.

37:08

Say Anatomy of a Fall that

37:11

was one of my favorite movies of the year. They

37:13

tore that script up like incredible

37:16

and then American Fiction. I absolutely

37:19

loved it was so great

37:21

and Core Jefferson, I just want to shout out

37:23

because.

37:24

That speech was incredible.

37:25

What he used his time to say

37:28

was so worth it and

37:30

it was so meaningful and it was so true

37:33

and you can feel everyone being like, yes,

37:35

that is that is exactly right,

37:37

Like instead of a two hundred million

37:40

dollar budgeted movie that may or

37:42

may not fail, and then we all have to pay for that,

37:45

like in terms of like you know, the fact

37:47

that we don't have the opportunity to see smaller

37:49

budgeted things because all the budget went to that

37:51

one thing that may or may not be good, because

37:53

those are the movies that are more

37:55

likely to be put together by

37:58

committee artistically in a like

38:00

on an executive level, like we're

38:03

just the soul of the film

38:05

industry is like dying and

38:07

more and more every single year, and it's

38:09

because we are not investing in more

38:12

talent and like ideas

38:14

that are like interesting, actually

38:16

interesting. He said, make tons

38:18

of smaller budgeted movies and

38:21

invest in more stories and more talent than

38:23

this one big budgeted movie.

38:25

And I really do believe that's the

38:27

way too. I couldn't agree with him more. And

38:29

there he is holding an oscar on stage for one

38:32

of those modestly budgeted movies, and

38:34

so he's in a position of power to speak to that,

38:36

and I'm really grateful that he did, and I really

38:38

respect him. He's speaking as a writer and a

38:40

director. It's like incredible. I

38:42

mean that the impact of that sorry

38:45

to Francis McDorman, But I mean inclusion

38:48

writer. Has that impacted at all? I hope, I

38:51

want to say it has, but I've

38:53

not seen that be the norm. And

38:56

that's not a ding on Francis. No. But

38:58

I think this could

39:00

actually, hopefully, like have some

39:02

impact. I think hopefully. So everyone

39:05

was watching, I really like I

39:08

was watching with House and Whitaker and Tom

39:11

and we were all up cheering friends

39:13

with Jefferson. I believe they worked

39:15

together. They were together, And then Whitaker showed

39:17

us photo of them watching the Oscars together like five

39:20

years ago, just like hanging out. I was just like, what a

39:22

beautiful.

39:23

He seems like such a great guy and

39:25

it feels like he's very

39:28

beloved, and I'm really

39:30

I mean, if you haven't seen an American fiction, you should definitely

39:32

check it out.

39:33

I mean, like, it's really smart, it's a brand

39:35

new. And check out the Good Place on

39:38

Peacock.

39:39

Yeah, you got to check out the Good Place on Peacock. It's

39:41

really smart, it's brand new.

39:45

I do miss the Good Place. Good Place was

39:47

great. I love the Good Place. Good Place was

39:49

a lot of fun. Can you believe they gave Messy

39:51

the dog from anatomy of a fall a seat at the

39:53

Oscars. Messi had a

39:55

full seat. Messi had a full seat, but everyone

39:58

was very up in arms out

40:00

the puppet, the applause pre tape,

40:02

m M. They shot that beforehand,

40:05

which you know, like it's a

40:07

as well trained as Messi is, as much

40:10

of a professional and an amazing

40:12

actor as he is, you can't tell

40:14

him and communicate these things. He can't, like

40:16

explain that this is an award show and

40:19

you're here because you did it a great job.

40:22

Messi is capable of so much, including

40:24

performing an overdose an

40:26

anatomy of a ball. I don't know, bitch.

40:29

I think they could have talked the dog to clap

40:31

in real time.

40:32

I agree. I'm with the mob on this one.

40:34

Oh gosh, did you see the shot of Messi

40:36

at the end of the broadcast of Messi like raising

40:38

his leg up to pee on Matt Damon's Hollywood

40:40

Walk of Fame star. I didn't see that, but

40:42

I love it. Little Jimmy Kimmel joke, Little Jimmy

40:45

joke. I thought Jimmy Kimmel was great. I

40:47

thought I thought that it was really fun. Also,

40:49

shout out Lewis Vertel he wrote for the Oscars.

40:51

He did a lot of the monologue. I know that

40:53

was his lifelong dream.

40:54

So I just want to shout congratulations

40:57

to that fucking bitch. I wanted

40:59

to say, I fucking one

41:01

of my favorite things about any award show is

41:03

when Billie Eilish is there. She's

41:06

just I fucking love her. She's

41:08

so fucking good.

41:11

I just love watching her perform. I love that song

41:14

so much.

41:14

I'm so glad it won.

41:15

I'm so happy it got everything it deserved. You know, it's

41:18

the first song since

41:20

My Heart will go on to win

41:22

Song of the Year at the Grammys, and yeah,

41:25

for Best Original Song.

41:26

Culturally, it has that impact, you

41:28

know what I mean, like like nuts

41:30

and shallow, Like Oher was saying this,

41:32

like it seems like every five years

41:35

or so, Best Original Song feels

41:38

like the category of the night.

41:40

Yeah, and it's really because we're honoring

41:42

a cultural moment, which I feel like

41:45

keeps that category alive in a way totally.

41:47

But like the gaps in between those years feel like conciliatory

41:51

almost. I mean so literally five

41:53

years ago was shallow, you know, and it was just like,

41:55

oh my god, this one, what a moment

41:57

you know, like I know, I think we kept calling it

42:00

the shallow shot, which was like shooting

42:03

with the audience and frame like I'm

42:05

behind so

42:07

funny, oh man, Yeah,

42:09

and shout out to Becky G. Shout out to Becky

42:11

G. That cutaway to Diane

42:14

and Eva Longoria, I

42:16

mean that did you.

42:18

Hear about this controversy? Like apparently

42:20

Diane Warren flipped a ship when

42:22

Cynthia and Arianna were announcing Best Original

42:25

Song, because Cynthia was like, tonight

42:27

we've seen nominees for Best Song,

42:30

and Ariana goes and the Oscar goes too, and

42:33

just open the envelope whether or

42:35

not she was supposed to say the nominees versus in dispute.

42:37

But Diane Warren apparently started screaming

42:40

and was running around furious because

42:43

Arianna hadn't like said the nominees, which

42:45

means that Diane Warren didn't get her like.

42:47

Name read out, this is the rumor

42:49

that's happening.

42:50

And apparently Eva Longoria saw Diane

42:52

start to spin out and she went to the bar.

42:55

She was like, I'm not handling this. She was

42:57

like, I Am not dealing with this.

42:59

She was like I thought I was gonna be off the fucking

43:01

clock. She goes, bitch, I got the fire

43:04

inside. I am out of here, bitch,

43:06

this is endgame. I directed this movie.

43:09

I am love. I'm just happy

43:11

and grateful that I got the Oscar nom Yeah,

43:15

miss me with that Diane. We

43:17

love Diane. Though we love Diane,

43:20

I mean say, don't go

43:23

famous song the woman wrote because you love

43:25

Me? But like I don't know.

43:27

At the moment, I was like, I was like, oh, is she opening

43:30

that envelope a little early? But then now I'm kind

43:32

of happy because I do love that there was drama.

43:34

Ari and al Pacino not

43:37

naming the nomies. I think that was just like a programming

43:39

note, a production, just like to be. I

43:41

was like, let's let's keep it moving because the songs were

43:43

shortened too. The songs were very like we're like,

43:46

very abbreviated, I thought, except for

43:48

I'm just ken and what was I made for?

43:50

Which you know, I guess, oh, just

43:53

so. I loved

43:55

that he was great, like I just felt

43:58

good he got it, and also like

44:00

to be that relaxed and singing

44:02

live on the oscars, like that's

44:05

really cool shit.

44:07

I mean, especially for someone who we know, you

44:09

know, people who know know he is a singer, but

44:11

like not really known for being

44:13

like some live singer. Like yeah, yeah,

44:16

it was really good. The whole thing. You could tell.

44:18

It was like a very joyous performance. I love

44:20

that they gave Barbie as much

44:22

real estate on the show as they did, even though

44:24

it only won the one award, because

44:26

it was one of the stories of the year obviously,

44:28

absolutely, And back to Billy, like, it

44:31

was just that first shot of Ryan in the audience,

44:33

like Billy is cracking up, cutting

44:35

up. I'm like, yeah, I was like, oh, this is a

44:37

great vibe, like like the Barbie

44:40

that whole Barbie group is like, so

44:42

it feels like such good vibes. Everyone's just

44:44

like really really I

44:47

don't know, like very like basking in

44:49

like this journey that they've all been on, which ended

44:52

that night, you know, like yeah, Margo

44:54

fucking looked stunning, Greta looked

44:56

amazing. Yeah, all of it. America

44:59

Snatch, America Snatched. I

45:01

did have one moment of just like, oh,

45:03

right, I could I was supposed to be you were supposed

45:06

to be in that, and that's all I like acknowledge

45:08

about it. But I was just like, oh my god. And then

45:10

you cut to you at home, like staring at the space wended.

45:16

I will say one of the fun moments of the

45:18

show was Rita Morano presenting

45:21

America.

45:21

Fererra America America.

45:24

I love that. I thought it was great.

45:26

I love the Fab five coming

45:28

out and doing the speeches.

45:29

I love that.

45:31

I will say if I have one thing, it

45:33

was Charlie's really flopped hers.

45:35

Like I've never been stung by a jellyfish.

45:38

Cut to that, bending like, oh, this is

45:40

what we're doing.

45:41

Like I think Charlie's was trying to give it

45:43

like a gravitas that like was

45:46

not placed correctly, like it was obviously

45:48

a joke, like if you have to lean on it a

45:51

little bit, but she tried to play this like middle

45:53

ground or like underplay it, like you

45:55

can't underplay I've never been stung

45:58

by a jellyfish. But watching you and Benning,

46:00

I felt like I had you can't that there's

46:02

nothing yeah, you

46:04

know, there's nothing emotional about that, Like.

46:07

No, there's no grip there, there's no purchase,

46:09

like lean on it a little bit, Charlie

46:11

ease, like we got we have to understand that it's

46:13

a joke. Because then at the end. It was just so funny because

46:15

the Net Benning's sitting there, She's

46:17

already she had to get a dressed for this. She was

46:19

like she so she didn't,

46:23

but like she's sitting there. And then at the end

46:25

of that thing, though Charlie's

46:27

speech, she kind of goes like you

46:29

can see her kind of like tilts her head and be like, eh,

46:32

a net Benning, what about

46:35

George model for award show behavior was

46:37

like fuck this, I'm wearing a

46:39

Mother of the Bride yep garment.

46:42

I don't give a fuck. I'm

46:44

gonna wear my fucking tinted glasses.

46:47

And those were chic. Those were chic.

46:49

Her most animated moment all night was Kimmel

46:51

at the end doing like the Trump jail time.

46:54

Patrick and I were laughing laughing

46:57

because she was like a mad She was

46:59

so tickled by it, and

47:01

that was down for that

47:03

Trump drag.

47:04

She was really down for it. It's

47:07

just Patrick also, House

47:09

was like.

47:09

Patrick was rooting for a net the whole

47:12

night. I mean, yeah, he was at and

47:14

honestly, I loved a Net bending

47:16

and Nightet. I talked about it a couple weeks ago, like

47:18

it was so good, but what else oh

47:20

love Divine's speech, like

47:23

that was so great, Like Robert

47:26

Downey Junior. I thought we

47:28

frontloaded our speeches this season. Like it's

47:30

hard when you keep seeing the same person

47:32

go up again again again, because

47:35

by the time Oscar night comes around, it feels

47:37

like anointed in a way, and the speeches feel less,

47:40

you know what I mean. Like I feel like one of the only people that really

47:42

worked all the way up to giving her best speech

47:45

was Divine. And then you

47:47

know, not everyone else nailed the speeches.

47:50

But hey, but hey, that's

47:52

Hollywood. That's Hollywood. Maybe not everyone nails

47:54

the speeches. Not everyone nails the speeches.

48:05

Did you see Dune yet? Speaking of Hollywood,

48:07

I have not seen doing I'm going to this week, but

48:10

I can't wait to see Timmy ride that worm. I

48:13

can't wait for the ghost

48:15

of Oscar Isaac. I guess he's not in

48:17

it. Oh, he's in the credits.

48:20

He's credited in Doune too.

48:22

I like looked it up. I was like, did they credit

48:24

Oscar Isaac? I know Momoa

48:26

is not credited because of what happens,

48:28

but for some reason Oscar. Maybe I looked

48:31

at the wrong thing. But I could have sworn that Oscar Isaac

48:33

was listed as a starring actor

48:36

in Doune Too, and I was like, Oh, I guess they like do

48:38

a flashback or something. I don't know. Mimoa. Momoa

48:42

is not credited in June Too. He's not in

48:44

it, right, But I'm saying, but

48:46

did I say Oscar Isaac? Yeah,

48:49

Oscar Isaac is credited in June Too. I believe

48:51

he is not in it either, because he's not in the movie. But why

48:54

would Momoa Momoa?

48:56

He's not in this He was in the first

48:58

one. He was, Yes,

49:01

Jason Momoa, Jason Momoo

49:04

shaved shaved Jason

49:07

Momoa. But if I was, I

49:09

think he looks hotter without the beard. Sorry, Jason.

49:12

Oh, Okay, interesting, I didn't even remember that. Okay.

49:14

So the thing about dunes is I

49:16

definitely go see them, but I am

49:18

miserable almost every second while I'm watching

49:20

them, And then the second I leave, I can't stop thinking. You're

49:23

like, I love that. But but

49:25

while because you feel

49:27

sand, you feel the sand. I don't

49:30

like to be sandy.

49:31

People know that, like, and I'm always worried about people's

49:33

ocular health, like because of all the dust

49:35

and all the sand, and also the context they have to keep

49:37

putting in their eyes. I'm just so concerned about Timmy

49:39

and Zenda and sort of their eyes

49:42

and their nostrils, and Javier as

49:44

well. I will say my favorite part

49:46

of these movies is Rebecca Ferguson amazing

49:48

protect her at all costs, Lady

49:50

Jessica is that girl.

49:53

The performance that she gives in this and

49:56

the first one I thought were great, Like, this

49:58

is the kind of thing I would like to see it.

49:59

I'm nation four, like, so so

50:01

so good.

50:02

She's so like, it's like this

50:04

mixture of unbothered and completely

50:07

physically tortured, which I takes me laugh

50:10

and gives me a thrill. Loved

50:12

her talking to her baby Annia Taylor Joy,

50:14

and then loved the one scene with Anna Taylor

50:16

Joy. I hope she got paid one hundred thousand

50:18

dollars for being a day.

50:19

Player at least.

50:22

I was like, literally all I could think about.

50:24

I saw it with Ade Schwartz and I was like, I left

50:26

and I was like, how much do you think they paid?

50:27

Anya? I think

50:29

the root of Rebecca Ferguson is unbothered.

50:31

I think you see an interview She's like, oh, what is

50:34

this. I don't give a fuck, but it's so charming. I

50:36

love her.

50:36

I think we need to get we need to give her way

50:39

more. I think she

50:41

is actually top one percent

50:43

of the talent in Hollywood.

50:45

It's her.

50:46

But I was looking at her IMDb because

50:48

I was, of course trying to track down which

50:51

from the greatest Showman to do. Oh

50:54

yeah, I was like, no, well that obviously, but she

50:56

was out. She made news because she said, like.

50:58

I'm gonna tell you something.

50:59

It was an act years ago, total assho

51:01

and he was mean to me on set and

51:04

I never forgot it, and like.

51:05

You know what I mean, do you think it is? Well, I have

51:07

my opinions, but I'm oh,

51:10

you're protecting celebrities. No.

51:12

Fine, I'll just say I think, looking

51:14

at it, it's either Michael Fassbender or Jake

51:16

Jillenhall. And then I watched interviews with both

51:19

of them because this is how on the case I was, and

51:22

it seemed like, at least in terms of the

51:24

press presentation, that she could do relationships

51:27

with both of them. So what I'll say about Rebecca Ferguson

51:29

and all this is she was incredibly

51:31

honest in that last interview and

51:33

she's also incredibly good at press because

51:36

you cannot tell which

51:38

person it is that was cruel to her on set,

51:40

to the point where she was like, I have used to work with you today,

51:43

you know, but that is but that is

51:45

what she has said, so much smoke and mirrors

51:47

out there.

51:47

Should we talk about the royal family? Because this is

51:49

eating my ass up. I was

51:51

going to say, I was gonna transition. I was gonna say,

51:53

Rebecca is one of our great brets,

51:56

and to go to some ungreat brets, let's

51:58

talk about this whole fuck it thing. Let's

52:01

fucking go. So that is the craziest

52:03

photo I've ever seen in my life. I can't

52:05

believe they thought that

52:08

was gonna fly. It's completely

52:10

unhinged.

52:11

Either these are the dumbest people in the

52:13

world or they think we're the dumbest

52:15

people in the world.

52:16

And maybe it's both. I think it's both.

52:18

That window on the left, I'm

52:20

not even looking at it. I can just

52:23

just all of it is. So what's

52:26

the word eerie? Like really

52:28

disturbing? So disturbing this photo.

52:31

They're eerie and disturbing people. So for those of you

52:33

who don't know, like Kate Middleton has

52:35

been. I think everyone knows at this point. I mean,

52:38

I'm sure everyone knows, but Kate Middleton's been missing.

52:40

And they released this photo of her that

52:43

was so clearly like either AI

52:46

or photoshop or something that was

52:48

just like me and my children together definitely

52:50

today, and everyone was like, that's

52:53

obviously fake.

52:54

What the fuck?

52:55

And then they announced I think she made a

52:57

statement taking credit for that

53:00

and was like, I'm so sorry that was me.

53:01

I'm an amateur photographer. I dabble

53:03

in photoshop.

53:04

First of all, Mama, Kate

53:06

Middleton, you were not on photoshop

53:09

putting this photo together.

53:10

Like, no way, no way,

53:12

you barely know how to use a computer. I

53:15

can't believe the lengths

53:17

they are going to cover up what is going on,

53:20

which, by the way, the cat's out of the

53:22

bag, because did you see that clip from Big Brother

53:24

UK? No tell me bowin

53:28

fucking Echen Sue is

53:31

now on Big Brother UK with I guess

53:33

like a relative of

53:35

Kate Middleton, and so in the

53:37

Big Brother House, Ecken Sue

53:40

asked, and this is you can see a

53:42

video of this because it's the Big Brother House. She

53:44

goes, I have to ask you, like where is Kate and

53:47

her cousin or something, or her uncle

53:49

or something, sighs and goes,

53:52

you know, they've asked me not to talk about

53:54

it, but just she's getting

53:56

the best care. He literally

53:59

says those words she was Is she

54:01

okay? And he was just like, you know, I'm I

54:03

really, I'm in contact with her mother. I'm

54:05

not really supposed to talk about it, but like we're

54:08

they're doing like what they can. I

54:10

can't believe Eckin Sue is

54:13

fucking Ecken Shou was

54:15

the one. My god, so.

54:16

And I literally I had to laugh because I was like,

54:18

Wow, it's all converging in a way that's

54:21

so crazy. But what's obviously

54:24

happening is she's ill, she's

54:26

not well, and for some reason

54:29

they feel the need to cover

54:31

that up or not tell the truth about this. To the

54:34

fact that they would now outwardly lie

54:36

and misrepresent things.

54:38

They gotta go. They can't be trusted,

54:40

They can't be trusted. This is the ghost of

54:43

Diana, just like fucking

54:45

up every single lane of

54:47

this family. To me, like,

54:50

there is no like good royal right now, I'm

54:52

sorry, or ex royal for that matter, not

54:54

one. You can't root for these people, No

54:57

it's so crazy. There never was

54:59

not I said that there ever was. I'm sorry, I keep going.

55:02

Except Diana.

55:02

Yeah, well, I think that this

55:05

is way worse than they think. Like I

55:07

think this is like maybe even the straw

55:09

that breaks the camel's back, because even

55:12

people that like didn't care about the treatment

55:14

of Diana and didn't care about the treatment of

55:16

Megan.

55:16

Like have an issue with this because

55:18

being lied to this. Yeah, and

55:21

it's just like, what would be the big deal about

55:23

being transparent and honest about what she's going

55:25

through? You know what is if

55:28

she's very ill, like tell

55:31

people that, Like, what would be the big deal?

55:33

The imagery of the royal family right

55:35

now is that it's like falling apart because

55:38

of Charles, and I mean, it's all pretty

55:41

bleak and dark. But it's like they

55:43

can't afford to look any

55:45

weaker than they already are than they already

55:47

do.

55:48

I think it's a total miscalculation on their part.

55:50

And I think they obviously have the worst pr

55:52

in the world. But I think when

55:54

they've been the most powerful and

55:57

when they've been the most beloved

55:59

is when they peer the most human, you

56:02

know what I mean, Like Elizabeth coming out and

56:04

greeting the mourners, like William

56:06

and Harry, like when Diana passed

56:08

away, like them being

56:10

so obviously in a state of

56:12

grief and mourning, and the country could be

56:14

there for them and rally around them, like you

56:17

know, even Harry

56:19

and Megan leaving, Like that's a very

56:22

like human thing in terms of like I

56:24

just feel like they need to understand

56:26

like it is through humanity

56:29

and it is again through complexity

56:31

and gray area that we all can truly

56:33

connect. And I feel like they're

56:36

trying to withhold this image that is

56:38

now like we

56:40

know, completely constructed, because

56:43

it's starting to fall apart in front of my very eyes, and

56:45

I'm like, what is this all for?

56:49

What is this all for? It's

56:51

to preserve meaning

56:54

in like this thing

56:57

that has had meaning for it, Like I mean, like

56:59

this is not a totally discount the royal

57:01

family and like what its value is in

57:03

like British culture and world culture.

57:05

It's like the value of the

57:07

monarchy is to like give people

57:10

a sense of like, oh,

57:12

like let's fixate

57:14

on these people for all these reasons, and

57:17

like now that the fixation is grim

57:19

and dark and like has

57:22

like a mortal element

57:24

to it, it's a little sad. I think like

57:26

people in the UK would and across

57:29

the world would like freak out a little bit,

57:31

I think. But it's not that they already aren't. It's

57:33

just that, like the smoke

57:36

and mirrors of it is a way to keep

57:38

people like somewhat sane, and

57:40

yet it's having the opposite

57:42

effect. I just think, if she's

57:44

really ill, I hope

57:47

that everything's okay. But what

57:49

they're telegraphing now is that everything is

57:51

not okay. And now people are going

57:53

to be panicking. Now, people are

57:55

going to be like, even if they are to come out

57:57

in a couple weeks or whatever and say what the truth

57:59

is, like, who's to say that that can even be

58:01

trusted? Right, Like at this point they have completely

58:04

lost everyone, not everyone,

58:06

but like the majority I

58:09

think most people. Yeah,

58:11

anyway, listen, speaking

58:13

of Eck and Sue, I just really want to debrief

58:15

on the Traders. Yeah, we have to have it on my

58:18

little list. I mean that finale

58:20

was eventful, It wasn't uneventful. You

58:22

can't say nothing happened. Yeah,

58:25

I do think it was just such a

58:27

an empty finish.

58:30

It was scoundrel behavior from

58:32

Traschelle I'm just gonna put it on Trachelle

58:35

honestly, and CT. I guess if they both went in

58:37

because they both made that pact with each other. I am

58:39

a little thrown by CT voting for Trischelle,

58:41

Trischelle voting for CT, Trichell voting for

58:43

CT. Yes, yes, yes, but like the

58:46

way they like, the way

58:48

they iced hat MJ was just so fucking crazy

58:50

to me, and it was so sel It's just like, oh, you

58:52

you couldn't have done a three way split just on a

58:55

math level, on like a greed level. Is that what that

58:57

was? I mean, yeah, it's a game totally.

58:59

I did think. Yeah, I think what they did is above board.

59:01

Okay, well we're going to disagree. I

59:03

agree to disagree. I didn't watch the reunion, although

59:05

someone did say, like, for people who don't watch Bravo, like,

59:07

you have to understand how embarrassing it is for Trischelle

59:09

to sit that far away from the center in

59:13

terms of the gameplay.

59:15

Ultimately, she was the only person who

59:17

deserved the money, like her

59:19

and CT, because MJ got

59:21

to the end literally wrong every

59:23

single time. I mean, she was literally a

59:25

definition of a goat. So I understand

59:28

being with her at the end and being like, I don't

59:30

want to share the money with her. I mean, that's happened

59:32

before, and it is a game, like, yes,

59:34

maybe they were the faithfuls the whole time, and so you don't

59:37

want to backstab it faithful.

59:38

But it's also like you are there

59:40

to win the money.

59:41

So as a game move, I would have respected

59:43

it had they gone in and been like, you and I are

59:45

going to split the money like we stbby where let's get her

59:47

out of here, because ultimately she also could

59:50

be a trader. I do believe that Troschelle

59:52

had a reason to believe that CT could have been

59:54

a trader, and so when

59:57

she voted for him, I was shocked. And

59:59

then she talked it through afterwards. I was watching an

1:00:01

interview with her afterwards and she talked it through, and I was like,

1:00:03

oh, yeah, there were definitely times

1:00:05

where his willingness to allow

1:00:07

her to get a shield she read that

1:00:09

as like, oh, he doesn't feel like he needs one,

1:00:12

he's a trader. Like there

1:00:14

were there were moments where I was just like, I

1:00:16

get that reasoning, So I would have understood

1:00:18

it either way.

1:00:20

You know.

1:00:21

I think it's a little bit of a bummer that

1:00:24

Kate kind of stopped trying at the end, But

1:00:26

that's.

1:00:26

Kate down like she she is someone who

1:00:29

disengages like that. Yeah,

1:00:32

as we saw last season, you.

1:00:33

Kind of got a lover like but being

1:00:36

in the top four when there

1:00:38

literally had to be a trader there because

1:00:40

Chat had been murdered, and her

1:00:42

being like I believe that everyone hears a faithful

1:00:44

It's like, mommy, you just gave it away. Like

1:00:48

but but then it's like, I don't know did she

1:00:51

throw it because she came in halfway through

1:00:53

and said I don't really deserve this, like let's

1:00:55

let them have the money and duke it out. Like I

1:00:57

can see that. But yeah, obviously

1:01:00

anytime anyone is in any of these games,

1:01:02

I want to see them try to win

1:01:04

all the money. That's just what I

1:01:06

think is that's gameplay.

1:01:09

I understand it's gameplay, but it is

1:01:11

so funny, Like Trischelle was

1:01:13

framing these the entire game is

1:01:15

like an absolutely moral kind

1:01:18

of like crusade where it's like the

1:01:20

traders are murdering us that

1:01:22

we are to get Like I

1:01:25

kind of took it as that. I was like, she's taking

1:01:28

this serious, like and I understand

1:01:30

the shift to like pure gameplay towards the end.

1:01:32

But it was like a, oh,

1:01:35

I don't know, I just I just don't like her, that's

1:01:37

all. She's like Gazelle levels to me. I'm

1:01:39

like, I can just tell Giselle

1:01:42

and Troschelle are not your girls anyone

1:01:44

that ends with an L except Chrishelle. Chris,

1:01:48

You're alleged love your Roschelle. No

1:01:51

if I if Trichelle shows up to an upfront

1:01:53

event, not that I get invited to them anyway, but

1:01:55

I'm just like, oh no, it's

1:01:58

always like the upfront is always where Bowen expecting

1:02:00

to have to throw hands. Yes, I'm

1:02:02

gonna do it. Sorry, Sorry, Donald

1:02:04

Langley. I feel like, yeah, I mean it was

1:02:06

a fun season. It's a fun season. I'm

1:02:09

sorry. I don't think some honey, Dan and

1:02:11

Peter like just people who

1:02:13

kind of like killed the vibe of the

1:02:15

whole thing. Dan by like killing

1:02:18

the sort of like making it impossible for

1:02:20

the traders to win, and then Peter for just

1:02:22

being so smug and making the faithful as impossible

1:02:24

to root for. That's it.

1:02:25

Yeah, that's a really good distillation

1:02:28

of what it was. I guess, like I

1:02:30

just wish that people could get all on the same page

1:02:33

about like the fact

1:02:35

that it's a game and you

1:02:37

gotta do what you gotta do to win

1:02:39

the game. Like and I feel like in Australia,

1:02:43

not in the UK. And the UK they were very emotional

1:02:45

all over the place, but in Australia it

1:02:47

was clear that everyone was there for the

1:02:49

money, which is why you're there,

1:02:52

Like, and so anytime like some emotion

1:02:55

like comes into it, or whenever anyone's

1:02:57

like I have to think should I vote with my

1:02:59

head or my I'm like screaming at

1:03:01

the TV.

1:03:02

Your head, your head, oh, with your

1:03:04

head. But the

1:03:06

thing about this season of The Traders, which I thought

1:03:08

was interesting to see play out, was like, if

1:03:11

it is all reality TV veterans, there

1:03:13

are so many other factors that

1:03:16

go into it where it's like it's

1:03:18

not like a full normy season where it's like they don't know

1:03:20

each other. They don't know each other from Adam, they don't

1:03:22

know what their strategies or what their reputations are. Like

1:03:25

this was a season of The Traders where it was

1:03:27

like, oh, did it work? And I think

1:03:29

it did? But did it work if everyone

1:03:31

knows has all

1:03:33

these preconceived notions going in. That's all

1:03:36

yes, definitely, that's what

1:03:39

I think. Whatever it is, it just.

1:03:40

Has to be on an even playing field. And season three

1:03:42

it is going to be reality stars again, like

1:03:44

that's yes, yes, yes, confirmed. But what

1:03:47

I like about an All Normies

1:03:50

cast, like an Australia cast, is.

1:03:52

You really believe they need the

1:03:54

money.

1:03:55

And so for example, like

1:03:57

on Australia, it's one woman being like, yeah,

1:04:00

probably with the money, I'll get a new hand. It's

1:04:02

like that's different than k chesting, you

1:04:04

know what I mean, Like, probably with the money, I'll get

1:04:06

a blow out every week for the rest of my life, you

1:04:09

know what I mean. It's like I would rather I don't

1:04:11

think she cares about her hair, I

1:04:13

said. In every scene it looks like she's hanging upside

1:04:15

down. It's wild ish.

1:04:19

Down, chaotic as

1:04:22

shit. In every scene, it's

1:04:24

like the hairstylist was like, hmm, for

1:04:26

you, we're gonna go static. I'm just

1:04:28

gonna rub my feet on a carpet,

1:04:30

honey, and then we're gonna get you electrocuted

1:04:33

as fuck. Like she her hair looks fucked,

1:04:36

freshly fucked, freshly electrocuted.

1:04:38

It is fuzzy, but that's

1:04:40

the one thing I like about Australia

1:04:43

and I have to say, watch this

1:04:46

season because

1:04:48

it is so good and you just get

1:04:51

that there's a desperation for the money there

1:04:53

that informs the gameplay and makes

1:04:55

it even more cutthroat. Like I

1:04:58

don't know, I just my thing is I just want to see the

1:05:00

game played well. Of course, it's fun to

1:05:02

have like the fun elements of like

1:05:04

you know, the reality show aspect,

1:05:07

like.

1:05:07

Oh, lord Naik and Sue, no one

1:05:09

likes you, poverty. I don't have to kiss

1:05:11

her ass for a ro. I was like, that's all fun. But

1:05:13

it was very funny at the reunion. And if

1:05:15

you watch the reunion, you'll see like the

1:05:17

housewives treating it like a Housewives

1:05:20

reunion and the gamers being like.

1:05:22

You, guys, it's a game. But

1:05:25

I kind of love seeing that sort of mingling.

1:05:28

Oh, it's so funny. The collision is so funny.

1:05:30

Also, it was such like fan

1:05:32

service wish fulfillment for me to see Parvety

1:05:34

sitting next to Andy Cohen in a reunion.

1:05:36

Like I said, God is

1:05:38

so good. I started. I started

1:05:40

the episode and I was like, I'm sorry to be

1:05:42

superficial, but Parvety looked at me and saying, she loo's

1:05:44

great. She looks stunning. I

1:05:46

mean, look, if it's gonna be a reunion, like, let's

1:05:49

turn the reunion. And also Peppermint

1:05:51

had a I'm glad they gave Peppermin a moment to be like

1:05:53

me, being on the show was incredibly meaningful

1:05:56

m hm. And it was so

1:05:58

disappointing that I went out. So we're yeah,

1:06:01

fuckinglle Man. You know, it's it

1:06:03

seems like they are okay. You know what I would say,

1:06:05

like, that's my thing is like Peppermint and Tochelle

1:06:07

seem okay. Peppermint applauded for Trischelle

1:06:09

when they talked about how she was the winner. They still follow

1:06:12

each other on Instagram, Like, but I also

1:06:15

wouldn't mind if I never had to think about Tchelle

1:06:17

ever again.

1:06:18

And that's that is your right. And guess

1:06:20

what, maybe now that she's won the money, maybe she'll

1:06:22

retire.

1:06:23

I don't know. Speaking of a human being

1:06:25

with contradictions, I do just want to touch on the Madonna

1:06:27

concert. Oh yes, please, this was

1:06:30

so fun.

1:06:31

I had a great time. I'm so happy I went. It

1:06:33

was a very comprehensive show.

1:06:36

You got everything. She was playing the hits and

1:06:38

also there were some swerves highlights

1:06:40

for me, crazy for you. I mean, I just love

1:06:42

that song so much, like love that song

1:06:45

love hung Up. Just the Vogue

1:06:47

section was fucking great. Ali Wong

1:06:49

came out at my show. Oh that's fun,

1:06:52

and I will also say the

1:06:54

highlight, and I would think that this maybe

1:06:56

is the highlight of like for many people for our entire

1:06:58

tour. I was at the show where Kylie Minogue

1:07:00

came out, and

1:07:03

it was such a moment to see Kylie

1:07:05

and Madonna on stage together and they sang

1:07:07

an acoustic version of I Will Survive and

1:07:10

then Madonna let everyone in an acapella

1:07:12

can't get You out of My Head like chorl oh

1:07:14

my god. There was so much love and respect

1:07:17

between them, genuinely, Yeah,

1:07:19

And that was so amazing

1:07:22

to see, like, and it felt like

1:07:24

all artifice dropped away for a second.

1:07:26

Yeah, And Kylie came out and Madonna pointed

1:07:29

at her and she was like, this is a real survivor.

1:07:31

And I feel like only they can really

1:07:33

understand like the positions that they're in

1:07:35

and obviously like women at that level,

1:07:38

but to see them stand together and you

1:07:40

know, Kylie was wearing her shirt that

1:07:42

said Madonna. That called back to when Madonna

1:07:44

wore that shirt that said Kylie Minogue, and it

1:07:47

just was a joyful, faggy

1:07:49

moment.

1:07:50

I love it. These are two very

1:07:52

important people. Yeah, oh

1:07:55

my god. I mean yeah, like there

1:07:57

needs to be some sort of documentary,

1:08:00

some sort of journalistic thing on those

1:08:02

two on their careers, like side

1:08:05

by side, because they really were like two

1:08:07

sides of the same coin for a while, like coming

1:08:10

up around the same time, representing

1:08:12

different things, kind of converging,

1:08:14

then diverging, converging, but

1:08:16

then I mean in the end, it all converges back

1:08:19

once again, and it's like, these are

1:08:21

just two fucking legends, and to

1:08:23

see them kind of join together and celebration

1:08:26

is really really beautiful. I mean god, I do

1:08:28

have regrets about not going to see her Madonna

1:08:30

when she was in New York, but that

1:08:33

is a very special She had Barclays, she was Barclays

1:08:35

and she did MSG and I misspoke. Oh wow,

1:08:37

I was very very sad. But yeah,

1:08:39

this was that the Forum. Oh

1:08:42

great, And she's been done so many

1:08:44

shows. I really feel I went to the right

1:08:46

one. You definitely did, And the fact.

1:08:48

That we got Kylie Mino' is like, oh, Cardi b came

1:08:51

out and did the Vogue section last night.

1:08:53

Apparently it was a blast, like Tony Gomez

1:08:55

was saying, it was so fun.

1:08:56

Oh fun.

1:08:57

But I wanted to say one

1:08:59

other thing. Madonna, which is at

1:09:01

the top of the concert, she was,

1:09:04

you know, it was like after the first couple of songs and she was addressing

1:09:06

the audience, and so many times she was like, you

1:09:09

guys need to put your fucking phones away, get up

1:09:11

on your feet. She was like talking to the audience like we

1:09:13

were her servants, and we loved

1:09:15

it.

1:09:16

But at one point she goes, you

1:09:19

know, I've been in this business for forty fucking years.

1:09:21

I've been doing this for forty fucking years, and

1:09:23

just today, just like the first day, I

1:09:25

give zero fucks.

1:09:27

And then I was like whoa.

1:09:28

And then like a beat goes by and she goes, well

1:09:31

sometimes I give like one and a half

1:09:33

fuck, and I was like, I

1:09:36

was like thank god, you know, like

1:09:38

because it just goes to show that

1:09:41

like even Madonna,

1:09:44

someone who got to where she's got by being

1:09:46

like, you know, no holds barred, confident

1:09:49

in doing what she wants to do, like to see that

1:09:51

she exposed in that moment,

1:09:53

the complexity and the humanity of

1:09:56

like I am Madonna, and that

1:09:58

comes with so fucking

1:10:00

much talk about someone who's been dissected,

1:10:03

hated, beloved. Cast

1:10:05

Aside said like she

1:10:07

was over, said she was the greatest thing in

1:10:09

the world, the highs, the lows, everything

1:10:12

for Madonna at the end of it to expose

1:10:14

about herself like you know, I

1:10:17

know my image is like bitch on Madonna,

1:10:19

and she in that moment was like sometimes I

1:10:21

give like one and a half fuck because yeah,

1:10:23

like when you get to that point, like there's

1:10:26

so much responsibility and you mean so

1:10:28

much more than you can

1:10:31

even possibly fathom. You are

1:10:33

such a fully realized figure in the

1:10:35

minds at least there's a perception

1:10:37

that you are a fully flashed figure of everyone

1:10:40

in the world because you are Madonna.

1:10:42

And to see her exposed that she actually

1:10:44

does care sometimes

1:10:47

about like maybe what

1:10:49

goes down, what people might think,

1:10:52

like what's being said, I thought was

1:10:54

like very full circle.

1:10:57

And I also felt like was

1:11:00

empowering almost to see

1:11:02

her be up there and not like lie or

1:11:04

hide behind some facade of like I'm.

1:11:06

A bulletproof bitch. Like to

1:11:09

see that like soft

1:11:11

core.

1:11:12

I was like really appreciative of that, And

1:11:14

from that moment forward, I was able to enjoy

1:11:17

the concert even more because

1:11:19

this is someone who's like showing this arsenal

1:11:21

of hits and this this entire career,

1:11:24

this story, and at

1:11:26

the end of it all, like she exposed that humanity

1:11:28

and I was able to really appreciate

1:11:31

her triumphs even more.

1:11:33

Well, let that be like proof

1:11:35

positive that you

1:11:38

can be sixty

1:11:40

five years old and be celebrating

1:11:43

your entire body of work with

1:11:45

people who love you in that space and

1:11:49

still acknowledged the idea

1:11:51

that like, it's

1:11:53

just it's the human condition just

1:11:55

to like care, to like be

1:11:58

vain sometimes, which is not necessarily

1:12:01

like what is the universal? But it's like you are

1:12:03

like there is no escaping

1:12:06

that you cannot, like you have to

1:12:08

kill such a crazy deep part

1:12:10

of yourself in order to not care,

1:12:13

in order to like just let

1:12:15

the work speak for itself and let that be the only

1:12:17

thing, and let that be the thing that you rest all

1:12:19

of your value on. It will never be

1:12:22

that, even if you're fucking Madonna, your

1:12:24

forty years of work will

1:12:26

not be the thing that like saves you or inoculates

1:12:29

you from feeling like insecure or inadequate

1:12:32

or like you're not with it in whatever way,

1:12:34

And it's fine. It's like anytime

1:12:36

we feel like, God, shouldn't

1:12:39

I have grown past this? Like, shouldn't I have outgrown

1:12:42

this part of my life?

1:12:44

Like you never will? That's okay, that's

1:12:46

scary, But it's like it's just how

1:12:49

our brains are wired. It's like we have not evolved

1:12:51

past that on a sort of like

1:12:54

cerebral level.

1:12:55

You know, it's not natural to

1:12:57

be Madonna and have world

1:13:00

wide international influence

1:13:02

and discourse about you.

1:13:04

That's not natural.

1:13:05

So to hear her say I give one

1:13:07

and a half fuck, that

1:13:10

was to me kind of revolutionary to hear from

1:13:12

her.

1:13:12

I like the grammatical sort of like itch

1:13:15

of like not plural fucks, right, give

1:13:17

one and a half fuck one and a half yeah,

1:13:20

and singular fuck, which doesn't grammatically

1:13:23

totally make sense. Title of app

1:13:25

one on and a half fuck, I love it. That

1:13:28

is a really good title of app. Actually, yes,

1:13:30

that's a very good title of app. We

1:13:41

tapple everything in the culture, should we do? I don't

1:13:43

think so, honey, I think so. This

1:13:46

is I don't think so, honey. This is where we take one minute to

1:13:48

go off against something in culture, go off on

1:13:50

something in culture. Matt, do you have something

1:13:53

I do?

1:13:53

And before I do this, this has nothing to do actually it

1:13:55

kind of has something to do with it. But I do want to say one

1:13:57

other thing, which is I went to that Elton John

1:14:00

oscar party, Oh my god, and I saw something

1:14:02

strack. And to see something strack at

1:14:04

the Elton John party when that had

1:14:06

been.

1:14:06

A plotline on the show was

1:14:09

lol to me.

1:14:10

And I will say the highlight of my night was when

1:14:12

I was standing at the bar trying to get a drink

1:14:14

and I look, I look over and there's

1:14:17

Kesha and we were

1:14:19

all ready for drinks and the bartenders were doing an incredible

1:14:21

job, but like it can never be fast enough, so

1:14:24

Kesha as a joke, like grabbed a

1:14:26

bottle of champagne off the bar and like pretended

1:14:28

like she was going to take it. And I turned to her and

1:14:30

I said, that was the most Keshau shit I've ever

1:14:32

seen. And she left and we had a nice, little.

1:14:34

Cute little moment. You two, we

1:14:37

don't know each other and she does not know me from

1:14:39

Adam, but I did see her act Kesha

1:14:41

in the wild, and so I had to call it out.

1:14:44

She was not stealing it off the bar, just

1:14:46

like I didn't steal that strawberry. Short kick, bitch,

1:14:48

you're doing accusations on that mo. My

1:14:50

god, we can't get

1:14:52

into this, but no, we can't. You.

1:14:58

We would never, we would

1:15:00

never do anything like this today. No. I

1:15:02

was twenty three, we were twenty three, and I'm

1:15:04

a human with complexities effect

1:15:10

you're just at the same time. I

1:15:14

know that me and my sister share a bloodline,

1:15:16

a blood we

1:15:19

share a blood live I have. I don't think so, honey. Okay,

1:15:21

this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so many as time starts now,

1:15:24

I don't think so honey.

1:15:25

I have thought my en seam was

1:15:27

different than it is for years.

1:15:30

No fuck, I've been there the

1:15:33

wrong in seam for years.

1:15:35

For years, I've been saying my enseeam is a thirty

1:15:37

two. Suddenly I don't know what

1:15:39

happened. I realized, Huh, every single

1:15:41

time I wear pants they're too long. It's

1:15:44

because my enseem is

1:15:46

thirty four years.

1:15:48

I have been bow and yang. I know my own

1:15:51

length of my legs.

1:15:51

I am a thirty I have short thirty

1:15:54

legs and a long torso it is

1:15:56

part of me. This is me now

1:15:59

and this me then. Since

1:16:01

I started giving my n S team, I have

1:16:03

been a thirty. My pants have always been

1:16:05

too long. I'm always wondering, Huh, why

1:16:07

do I always need the best bottom of my pants and tailored?

1:16:10

Is there something wrong with my body?

1:16:12

No, there's something wrong with my brain. There's

1:16:15

something wrong with my mother, who

1:16:17

told me I was a thirty two in my entire

1:16:20

life. Well, Katrina Rogers, I have news for you. I

1:16:22

don't think so, honey. I'm a thirty in

1:16:24

seam. Goddamn it, mama.

1:16:26

And that's one minute. I'm sorry you

1:16:28

took me on a journey there because I thought you first

1:16:30

started out saying you didn't

1:16:32

know what an en seam was, and I was gonna say,

1:16:34

oh no, no, my en seem I

1:16:37

feel like this is something you should have gotten to the bottom

1:16:39

of years ago, honey,

1:16:43

one hundred percent. But I have been

1:16:45

so for years. Like it's not something

1:16:47

that like your mom tells you and then you it's not like

1:16:50

you know, oh, like one of your uncles has

1:16:52

like a secret family. It's not like that. It's

1:16:54

like, no, this is the thing that you can sort

1:16:57

of verify for yourself without having someone else time.

1:16:59

I know, but that doesn't mean I can't blame my

1:17:01

mother.

1:17:02

And what I would say is, for years

1:17:04

and maybe still even in my heart, for years

1:17:06

I identified as a thirty thirty two

1:17:09

thirty waist thirty two in seam. Not

1:17:11

only it's it's literally flipped.

1:17:15

I am now a thirty two waist. Even sometimes

1:17:17

we're ring on thirty three, depending on what the

1:17:19

situation is. Sure, sure, but my waist

1:17:21

has gone up. My enn sceam is a thirty. I

1:17:23

am a thirty two thirty.

1:17:25

And now that I refuse to believe

1:17:27

I'm a thirty two thirty bitch. And

1:17:30

can I tell you something about you don't believe?

1:17:32

We have the same Yeah? Literally

1:17:35

literally literally, Bowen, we have the same

1:17:37

legs. We'll compare next

1:17:39

time I see you. You are literally feet

1:17:42

taller than me. Bowen. My torso

1:17:44

is a very long I have a swimmer's body. You

1:17:47

don't, God Bless must

1:17:50

be nice. Excuse me. This

1:17:53

is about me and my en seam. Are

1:17:56

we the same? We are we both thirty two thirty?

1:17:59

You know what depended iie

1:18:01

light. I'm like a thirty three, thirty sometimes

1:18:03

thirty four if it's the winner. That's what I'm

1:18:05

saying, Like if it's like January or we're

1:18:07

having a hard time, like it might even

1:18:09

go up to someone. The other day, I was getting fitted

1:18:11

for work and the girl goes, okay,

1:18:14

so we need to get you a thirty four, and I said,

1:18:16

excuse me, like, and by the way, we're not putting

1:18:18

any we're not putting any stigma on any way side,

1:18:20

but we're the way size is beautiful. That was just two

1:18:23

sizes sometimes even three sizes bigger

1:18:25

than I usually.

1:18:25

I don't want this to fall off, right,

1:18:27

And I was just like, I was like, oh, that feels too big for

1:18:30

me. And then they explained like, oh, when you're getting

1:18:32

fitted for things for like a job like that, you

1:18:34

want to get something a little bit bigger so that it can be brought

1:18:36

in, Like because that's just the

1:18:38

way it is. But anyway,

1:18:41

it's not me saying like if

1:18:43

my waist right now is a thirty three thirty four,

1:18:45

that's fucking great. I just should know that,

1:18:48

and I should know that my end seam

1:18:50

is a thirty because that will never change.

1:18:53

And I've been saying thirty two for the longest

1:18:55

time. I swear to God, I'm

1:18:58

so happy now. I just threw out all

1:19:00

my pants bowing, and I went to fucking

1:19:02

Banana Republic itself and I got some new

1:19:05

pants, and I'm so happy because

1:19:07

they're all thirty n CM and I feel like.

1:19:09

Finally, finally, finally,

1:19:12

it has happened to me. My pants are correctly

1:19:14

fitting. I'm very happy for you. So happy.

1:19:18

Pants are really tough. They can

1:19:20

be some of the toughest. We don't talk about how

1:19:22

that it's it's a deeply personal journey,

1:19:25

and it's sometimes it's lifelong. I still

1:19:27

am not really finding

1:19:29

the right genes. I've avoided jeans.

1:19:31

I'm finally ready to go back into jeans. You

1:19:34

really don't wear jeans. They don't

1:19:36

look good on me. But

1:19:39

I believe it's like my journey with love. I

1:19:41

believe it's out there. But

1:19:44

I have had bad luck, and I may

1:19:46

maybe it's because I'm not genetically

1:19:49

built for it. No, girl,

1:19:51

I'll tell you what we're gonna do. Next time I'm in New York.

1:19:54

We're gonna go to APC. I

1:19:56

love APC.

1:19:57

We're gonna get you some jeans because we're

1:20:00

gonna figure this out. We're gonna get to the bottom of this one,

1:20:02

okay, because there's no reason you should be feeling

1:20:04

anything but excited about your legs, which are

1:20:07

aspa ration.

1:20:09

No, they need to be contextualized

1:20:11

properly with the right shoes, the right short, right

1:20:14

shorts or pants. You are so

1:20:16

powerful in a short, I know, but I can't wear

1:20:18

them all the time because the legs are legging.

1:20:21

I love my legs, but I'm saying the

1:20:23

pants, the way that pants are

1:20:25

produced in this world not meant

1:20:27

for me. We're gonna

1:20:29

get to the bottom of this, okay.

1:20:31

Sometimes that's how I feel about shirts, Like sometimes I'm

1:20:33

like, because my torso is on the long side,

1:20:36

I feel like oftentimes like something will fit me on

1:20:38

the shoulders and then be like a little too short on

1:20:40

the bottom, which is never something anyone.

1:20:43

Needs, no of course, But Matt, you

1:20:45

you are a very well proportioned person. You

1:20:47

know this.

1:20:48

Hey, Bobby, all

1:20:50

right, so this will be bowing.

1:20:52

Yeah. I don't think it's the honey that's

1:20:54

always so exciting. Yeah,

1:20:57

and he has one minute on the clock and

1:20:59

bone Dan, I don't think so many time starts now,

1:21:02

I don't think so, honey, this video game Final

1:21:04

Fantasy Sevin Rebirth. It

1:21:07

is stoppering all culture

1:21:09

consumption for me. It's the first thing

1:21:11

I do when I wake up. It's the last thing I do before

1:21:13

I go to bed. I am three episodes

1:21:16

behind on Drag Race, and you know I need to

1:21:18

catch up because our Good Girl Joke

1:21:20

and Booster is guest judging next week.

1:21:22

This week, oh, this week, this week, I

1:21:24

have not watched a single Housewives

1:21:26

reunion from between Miami and Beverly Hills,

1:21:29

and I'm usually up up to speed on all

1:21:31

that second. It was a struggle. It felt

1:21:33

like homework watching The Traders finale, and

1:21:35

I never thought I would say those words. I

1:21:38

was on a reading tear with my books,

1:21:40

and all of it has stopped because

1:21:43

of this game that is so beautiful,

1:21:46

so effervescently fun, narratively

1:21:48

doing so many things that I've never seen

1:21:51

done in media before five

1:21:53

seconds. This game is a celebration of video

1:21:55

games in general. It is a celebration of fun, and that's

1:21:57

why I love it, and that's why I can't get away from it. That's

1:22:00

one minute. So that was one of those sneaky I don't think,

1:22:02

Sohney, is that I thought

1:22:05

how much I love about it, and I

1:22:07

was like really shocked. My qualm is that I

1:22:09

haven't been able to do anything else. It's disruptive.

1:22:11

It's disruptively good. It's disruptively

1:22:14

good. I mean, Matt. This game has you play these like mini

1:22:16

games that are like, oh, you're you're thrown

1:22:18

around a soccer ball for five minutes. Oh,

1:22:20

you're playing a card game which is amazing, by the way, called

1:22:23

Queen's Blood. Oh it's such a sleigh

1:22:25

but it makes you First.

1:22:27

I normally don't give a shit about these minigames in

1:22:31

video games. I'm like, let's just keep it moving, Let's

1:22:33

get the main thing going.

1:22:35

I don't want to be distracted by these side things. No,

1:22:38

the side things are just as fun. I

1:22:41

want to win at the side gas. I want to achieve

1:22:43

the highest rank at the side games. There's a game

1:22:45

where you played the piano and you have to like it's

1:22:47

like Dance Dancer Revolution, which you know is very

1:22:49

formative for me. This game

1:22:52

is pure fun,

1:22:54

pure fun. Oh, I have another adem think so money

1:22:56

really quickly? Okay, I don't think so, honey,

1:22:58

Alex English, No, No, no, just very very very Alex

1:23:00

English. He changed I got Steff on on air

1:23:03

on SNL for this Lisa Temecula sketch.

1:23:05

This was really good. He switched

1:23:08

up the cue cards on me. Aga was

1:23:10

supposed to have the line

1:23:12

I am neurodiverger, but she did not say neurodivergent.

1:23:14

She said something else. But then instead

1:23:17

I see on the cards points to Bowen

1:23:19

before the next line. And I

1:23:21

have never felt a more pure,

1:23:24

even blend of horror and joy

1:23:27

than that moment. It was so

1:23:31

fucking It was the craziest moment

1:23:33

of my life. I thought, I was like, nothing's going to be

1:23:35

like you know, the first Lisa in terms

1:23:37

of like, oh, because we're black, Like

1:23:40

that was my soul left my body. This

1:23:43

was something else, but just as

1:23:45

thrilling and satisfying. I was just like, this

1:23:48

is the craziest thing for Ago

1:23:50

to point to me and say that line

1:23:53

is fucking demonic

1:23:55

and Alex English, I love you to death, but

1:23:58

you are you are dast You're

1:24:00

on burn Notice you're preemptively

1:24:03

you guys got burned.

1:24:04

Here's your notice. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1:24:06

that was so funny. What a great episode

1:24:08

altogether. That was like I actually

1:24:12

all my friends went out and I stayed home

1:24:14

to like watch it because I was like,

1:24:17

I needed a night off anyway, because

1:24:19

we did game show on Friday, I went out

1:24:22

Saturday.

1:24:22

I didn't want to watch Ari.

1:24:24

Well, I had to intel that there was going

1:24:26

to be some special sketches, and I

1:24:28

did want to see her live performances, and

1:24:31

they were great. And I

1:24:33

had serious fomo because I know that

1:24:35

a lot of the a lot of girls were there. Yeah,

1:24:37

and then I saw you guys playing What are you guys seeing karaoke

1:24:39

or playing video games?

1:24:40

Afterwards? What were you guys? We were saying karaoke in

1:24:42

my office, But Ben Plat, Noah

1:24:44

Galvin were there. I heard we

1:24:47

were all hanging out in Nari's dressing room. After the show.

1:24:49

She had to hop on a jet right to go

1:24:51

right to La to go to the Oscars and getting glam.

1:24:53

Yeah, she did not mix the after party. But

1:24:57

she loves Josh and Air and she loves Dix the Musical.

1:25:00

And I will reveal that Josh

1:25:03

did did dare her. He

1:25:06

goes, I will pay you one dollar

1:25:09

if for best original song, you open up the envelope

1:25:11

and say it's a tie between Dix

1:25:13

the Musical and Theater Camp one

1:25:15

dollar. She couldn't make that happen. She said,

1:25:17

Okay, I'll think about it. Okay, just

1:25:20

doing the bit obviously, but just being like, okay,

1:25:22

yeah, let me let me.

1:25:25

Anythink about how I can make that work. Anyway, It was

1:25:27

a very it was a very fun night.

1:25:28

But I'm in La next week for you know,

1:25:30

undisclosed reasons having to do

1:25:32

with the podcast maybe, but I

1:25:34

want to go out. I want to have a night out with you, with

1:25:37

my girl and the girls and the other girls maybe

1:25:39

post drag race.

1:25:40

That can be arranged. That can be arranged for sure. In fact,

1:25:42

there is a there is something happening, so

1:25:45

I'll talk to you off air about it. But just

1:25:47

final words, I just want to say my best

1:25:49

dress was a tie between Sondra

1:25:51

Schuler and Mulligan care

1:25:55

both Black was in, Black

1:25:57

was in I thought they

1:26:00

were stunning. Sandra Huler was giving me

1:26:02

like glamorous, like movie star

1:26:04

of yesteryear. I loved her sleek, pony's

1:26:07

tail, hair, the shoulder, it

1:26:09

was powerful.

1:26:10

I thought she was a real winner.

1:26:11

Her movies did amazing and

1:26:13

she may not have won, but she looked incredible. I'm

1:26:16

super like in awe

1:26:18

of her and Carrie Mulligan looked

1:26:20

unbelievable, so fucking chic

1:26:22

and elegant, like the mermaid

1:26:25

bottom of that dress, the gloves, like.

1:26:27

The cutout scalloped,

1:26:29

the scalloped thing. Oh, just so fucking

1:26:32

gorgeous.

1:26:33

She looked absolutely stunning,

1:26:36

like for real, for real, I do

1:26:38

I'm biased, but Cynthia and Urie

1:26:40

looked amazing.

1:26:41

Johnny ally fucking chic,

1:26:43

cunty choice.

1:26:45

Yeah, they looked very good together. I'm

1:26:47

sure obviously that was like, you know, by design, yeah,

1:26:49

representing.

1:26:50

I do want to shout out Gucci did

1:26:53

some beautiful dresses for Lily, for

1:26:55

Lily Gladstone, oh yeah, for the show and for

1:26:57

the Vanity Fair party. Like both of her dresses were fucking

1:26:59

stunning and such beautiful homages

1:27:02

or just like tributes to like Native

1:27:04

dress, like just so beautiful, like the feather

1:27:06

motif and that color for the Oscars

1:27:09

down, I was like, oh, that's so stunning.

1:27:10

The ear They're gorgeous, and

1:27:13

I really feel like, you

1:27:16

know, I feel like it's just the beginning and like,

1:27:18

oh, it's truly us, and

1:27:20

you know, they said they really want to host SNL.

1:27:23

I would love for them to host SNL. I think

1:27:25

they would be amazing. And I have tea

1:27:29

not on Lily, but I

1:27:31

will say I have on good authority that Lily's

1:27:33

mother watches SNL every week and

1:27:36

calls me her son, I'm

1:27:39

gagging Lily Gladstone and mother says,

1:27:41

my son is on. Look at my son. I'm

1:27:45

Lily's brother.

1:27:47

Oh my god, that is so gorgeous.

1:27:49

Well, we're fans of Lily. Lily was performing

1:27:51

some Killers of the Flower Moon was just

1:27:54

beautiful, and there's

1:27:57

gonna be much more.

1:27:58

I'm sure.

1:27:59

I'm excited about this Hulu show. I did not know

1:28:01

they were the star of this

1:28:03

Hulu show. I just only saw the preview during

1:28:05

the Oscars and I was like, Oh, what's that has Riley

1:28:08

Kyoh.

1:28:08

Who's like he's so fucking good good.

1:28:12

So I'm excited about that.

1:28:13

And then I wanted to say two other things, which is I feel

1:28:16

like we haven't really gotten to talk about this,

1:28:18

but two things everyone should

1:28:20

go see which are

1:28:23

literally created by friends

1:28:25

of ours and starring friends of ours. The first

1:28:27

of which is The Emma Stone, produced,

1:28:31

written and directed by Julio Torres.

1:28:33

Fantastic.

1:28:34

This was great fucking till the Switton's amazing

1:28:36

and it like Julio has done it again,

1:28:39

like Greta Titleman is in it, Greta Lee,

1:28:41

j Sully, Riza, fucking

1:28:44

you know what I mean, Like it's got such a great cast. Oh my

1:28:46

god, River Ramirez, like.

1:28:51

Just the funniest human like god,

1:28:54

so good, I mean, you know, so

1:28:58

good, just like I mean, gotta

1:29:00

go see that one. And then of course we

1:29:02

haven't even mentioned it, but oh

1:29:05

Mary, oh Mary is

1:29:07

I mean, if you're in New York and you're

1:29:09

not fighting tooth and noil to go see this or you haven't

1:29:11

already, you are not doing it right.

1:29:14

The funniest theater ever I

1:29:16

think, ever, it's so funny,

1:29:18

like I mean, Cole Escola just

1:29:21

incredible. There are

1:29:23

idol and has always have been,

1:29:26

like the best in the biz.

1:29:27

Again James Kelly also in that a

1:29:29

little moment for James Kelly lately and

1:29:32

uh Conrad Rickmora and just

1:29:35

the best. Like so you gotta go

1:29:37

see old Mary. You will not be disappointed.

1:29:40

It is so good.

1:29:41

It feels with understudies by Peter

1:29:43

Smith and Hannasolo good friends of ours

1:29:45

as well. Yes, yes, all around, just

1:29:48

great things, good peeps and

1:29:50

all that and yeah,

1:29:52

this was This was last

1:29:54

colch, This was last college. This

1:29:56

is a long episode of Last Coach. I

1:29:58

know. We end with the song something

1:30:03

of Bed is made for

1:30:05

some bad made

1:30:09

me go on. You

1:30:13

picked her key too. You usually never do

1:30:16

that. I never do that. For

1:30:21

more of that, listened to Eternal Sunshine,

1:30:24

Bye True Story. I'm not gonna

1:30:26

do Bye

1:30:29

Bye