0:00

This is the BBC. Our

0:30

last word this week, don't tell

0:32

him Pike. We remember Dad's army

0:34

actor Ian Lavender. Also,

0:55

Roby Harris, whose book explaining sex

0:57

to children, made her among the

0:59

most banned authors in America. And

1:02

Barry John, the rugby fly-half, known simply

1:04

as the King. But

1:06

first, we remember one of Australia's

1:08

leading campaigners for the rights of

1:10

Indigenous people. Dr. Luigi

1:12

O'Donoghue was born in a remote

1:15

area of central Australia. Her

1:17

mother was Lily Woodford, a Yankun

1:19

Jajara woman, and her father was

1:22

Thomas O'Donoghue, a first-generation Irish-Australian who

1:24

had failed in his ambition to

1:26

strike it rich. Against

1:29

Lily's wishes, Thomas gave Luigi, who was

1:31

then two years old, and her four

1:33

sisters into the care of a group

1:35

of Christian missionaries who had the

1:37

stated aim of separating Aboriginal children

1:40

from their black parents and giving

1:42

them a more white upbringing. This

1:45

involved taking Luigi to a children's home

1:47

some 500 miles away from where her

1:50

mother lived. Stuart Rintoul

1:52

wrote Luigi's authorised biography. hungry.

2:00

She remembers being beaten for

2:03

standing up for herself and

2:05

of course she was tormented by

2:07

the questions that came to her late

2:09

at night, where's my mother, doesn't

2:11

she love me, why doesn't she

2:14

come for me. I'm not an angry

2:16

person but if ever I was angry, I was

2:19

angry about what had happened, not

2:22

for my own sake but for my mother's

2:24

sake because I'd always

2:27

thought about what my

2:29

mother was feeling and whether

2:31

in fact she cared and

2:34

whether in fact she ever

2:36

asked the question where her children

2:38

might be. Her mother did

2:40

look for her. A woman by the

2:43

name of Lily arrived in the town

2:45

of Corn looking for her

2:47

five missing children. She

2:50

made herself known to the

2:52

local police sergeant, a

2:54

man by the name of Bill Kitchen and

2:57

said that she was on her way to

2:59

Port Augusta at the tip of the Spencer

3:01

Gulf to find her five children.

3:04

Now Kitchen had been a policeman

3:06

for 33 years. The Colebrook children's

3:08

home had been in the town

3:10

of Corn where he was based

3:12

for 17 years. It's only

3:14

a small town. If he

3:16

knew or suspected that Lily's

3:19

children were in the Colebrook

3:21

home, he didn't tell her.

3:23

Instead, he gave her

3:25

enough money to get to Port Augusta

3:27

and sent her on the train in

3:29

the wrong direction. That was

3:31

closest Loaja came to contact

3:34

with her mother whom

3:36

she didn't see for 33 years. I'm

3:38

interested in Loaja's character. Was she somebody

3:41

who always wanted to make an impact,

3:43

who wanted to make something of her

3:45

life? When she left the Colebrook children's

3:47

home, she left with the voice of

3:49

the matron ringing in her ears telling

3:51

her that she would amount to nothing

3:54

and as she walked down the street

3:56

she thought to herself, bugger them, I'll

3:58

show them. The missionaries prepared

4:01

their charges to become servants if they

4:03

were women, or labourers if they were

4:05

men. But Luigi had other ideas. She

4:07

wanted to train as a nurse, but

4:09

there were considerable obstacles in her path.

4:12

What I'd hoped, of course, that I would nurse

4:15

for two years at the South Coast District

4:17

Hospital, and I'd transfer

4:19

to the Royal Adelaide Hospital. But of

4:22

course, the hospital didn't accept Aboriginal

4:24

girls at that time. And

4:26

I had an interview time, saw

4:29

the matron. Matron didn't

4:31

invite me into the office for the interview, and

4:34

just told me very bluntly that I

4:36

should go to Alice Springs and

4:38

nurse my own people. After determined

4:40

lobbying, Luigi did eventually manage to

4:42

become the first Aboriginal person to

4:44

train as a nurse at the

4:46

Royal Adelaide Hospital. She

4:48

then spent some time nursing in India

4:51

before returning to Australia to land a

4:53

job as a welfare officer in the

4:55

Department of Aboriginal Affairs. This

4:57

took her to the town of Coober Pedy in the

5:00

south of the country, but she

5:02

had another motive for going there.

5:04

Coober Pedy is on the edge

5:06

of Pichinjara, Yunkinjara country. She

5:08

thought that it would be closer

5:10

to her mother, and that she

5:12

might be able to be reunited.

5:14

The first day she got to

5:17

Coober Pedy, she was walking past

5:19

a store, and some

5:21

Aboriginal people saw her and

5:23

said, that's Lily's daughter. And

5:27

then in the course of some

5:29

few weeks, she arranges

5:31

to go to see her mother,

5:34

who waits every day from

5:36

morning to dusk at the side

5:38

of the road in Udna Dada

5:40

for her daughter to come home.

5:42

So that reunion must have been

5:44

a very difficult experience for both

5:46

of them. They didn't embrace, they

5:48

didn't know how to be with

5:50

one another. Lily was living in

5:52

the most appalling poverty in Atyn

5:54

Shanti. She tried desperately to conceal

5:57

that from Loja and her...

6:00

elder sister Eileen who went there with

6:02

her, always taking her

6:04

around the town, introducing her to people

6:07

but always leaving her daughters

6:09

to go back to her home so

6:11

that they wouldn't see the poverty that

6:13

she was living in. Her

6:15

mother had also become alcoholic

6:18

and all of these circumstances

6:21

made that reunion very torturous. We

6:24

must be fearless in

6:26

our work for the health

6:28

and the wellbeing of Aboriginal

6:31

and Torres Strait Island people. We

6:33

must be fearless in our work for

6:36

the Indigenous peoples of

6:39

the world over. She was

6:41

the first Aboriginal person and

6:43

first woman to head a

6:46

government department, being Aboriginal Affairs in South

6:48

Australia. She rose eventually

6:50

to be the chairperson

6:53

of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait

6:55

Islander Commission which was

6:57

the first attempt to give

7:00

Aboriginal people control over their

7:02

affairs. The Australian Parliament

7:04

has passed legislation giving land rights

7:06

to the country's native Aboriginal people.

7:08

The bill follows a controversial high

7:10

court decision which held that land

7:12

in Australia belonged to Aborigines before

7:14

the first white settlers arrived in

7:16

the country 200 years ago. That

7:19

was an exhaustive process. She

7:22

sat opposite Paul Keating. She

7:24

negotiated when in the past

7:27

Aboriginal people had always been

7:29

outside the tent and the

7:32

legislation passed in tubulant scenes

7:35

that created an opportunity for Aboriginal

7:37

people which wasn't there before. Stuart,

7:39

you obviously wrote her authorised biography

7:41

and spent a lot of time

7:43

studying her life. Could you

7:45

come to a view of what it

7:47

was that helped her to rise above

7:49

the terrible circumstances she faced as a

7:52

child and to become the influential person

7:54

she ended up as? The

7:56

morning after a Lower

7:58

Girodonic Euretion. And oration.

8:01

Named. For her in which aboriginal

8:03

elite as tried to. Pass.

8:05

A course forward, no peace and

8:07

at the during that oration had

8:09

described her as the greatest aboriginal

8:12

later of the modern era. And

8:14

I was sitting with her after the

8:16

a ration. And. We were looking at. Old

8:19

photographs and the girl she no longer

8:21

was in the champions of be Aboriginal

8:23

cause that she'd fought alongside and I.

8:26

Asked. Her why she had lived

8:28

the life she lived and she said

8:30

because I loved my table. And.

8:33

Of course. The importance of that

8:35

statement. Is. That. Her paypal

8:37

the aboriginal people of Australia with

8:39

a very people that missionaries and

8:42

to protect his tried to separate

8:44

of from but she found her

8:46

way back to them and she

8:49

championed their cause and that always

8:51

drugs or that loves her people

8:53

and that determination to achieve a

8:56

little bit of social justice. Stewart

8:58

Rintoul on Doctor Luigi A. Donahue

9:00

has died aged ninety one or

9:03

now. Let's remember the rugby union

9:05

plan and simply as. The king.

9:17

John, the former Wales and British and

9:20

Irish Lions fly half was idolized by

9:22

rugby fans. He played in twenty five

9:24

internationals and five tests for the Lions

9:27

but long before the big arenas beckoned

9:29

the young Barry John was dreaming of

9:31

them in a field in his childhood

9:33

village. Income of ensure we were lucky

9:36

can make him when I them for

9:38

because we had literally jumping over the

9:40

heads of in front of us. It

9:43

was Wembley one day mostly Cardiff as

9:45

hot summer time it was lot. Better

9:48

for me and we had everything they

9:50

wanted. The Berries talent was spotted in

9:52

his early teens by for the rugby

9:55

club as the sports journalist pool abandoned

9:57

also to corrode Berries autobiography told me.

10:00

He was very quickly seen to be

10:02

a bit different to everybody else. he

10:04

would solve glide and go stuns just

10:07

of go past defenders or opponents tough

10:09

to as will be tucked as if

10:11

they weren't narrow money. Off

10:15

of ah. Ha!

10:18

Ha! The

10:25

Us So much time on the ball on

10:27

if you have time on the ball. In

10:29

any sports, it simply no one in rugby.

10:31

Why? you got big boobs? look into Bucky

10:33

all the time and Zoc oh yeah, I

10:35

think it just creates an extra element

10:37

to anyone's game. He

10:53

moved to Cardiff join kind of a very very

10:56

quick play. Was. Involved in the While

10:58

South shop I'm very very quickly from

11:00

now moved into the line set up

11:02

as well. I think some people have

11:04

described him as the George Best of

11:06

rugby in terms of is playing style.

11:08

Is that ah yes it's It's more

11:10

than just display install. There are lots

11:12

of analogies that matthew he like George

11:14

best so if had dark lox he

11:16

had a bit of an air and

11:18

a greater by didn't He was the

11:20

first rugby superstar. He returned for the

11:22

Lions tour to New Zealand's In like

11:25

Simms was the only time the lines.

11:27

of other beaten these a lunch on

11:29

they hans back then. Probably.

11:31

The greatest back line that rugby

11:33

as ever seen. The help people

11:35

like Gareth Edwards him buried John

11:37

and Might Gibson you probably vice

11:39

with brought a Driscoll as Orleans

11:41

greatest of Atlanta Gerald Davies Jpr

11:44

Williams david.com he was a wonderful

11:46

when bring them but even within

11:48

not stella company bar he still

11:50

does. Like.

11:54

Solitaire. people always thought that was his

11:57

players and I'll put him under pressure.

12:00

The up at under his by stressing

12:02

that dimwits know lot of us. and

12:04

lastly we want to do That means

12:06

you're playing him into the game and

12:08

the code will be within a. One

12:10

thing you want to do is to

12:12

keep him quiet on the crowd quiet

12:14

to some simple did a since is

12:16

totally obvious isn't gonna record number of

12:19

points on that saw he was just

12:21

the kingpin that turn.series the Lions why

12:23

and. He. Told me story once

12:25

about how they were playing one of

12:27

the games. It was just before half

12:29

time and the Lions had a scrum

12:31

near their own line. And he

12:33

certain I might get some was immediately outside

12:35

you might get some was a genius of

12:38

a plan for either the real flap like

12:40

would love running and jinking a beating bad.

12:42

he was able to bury of on and

12:44

in many ways and buried so me that

12:47

he spotted a gap in the opposition line

12:49

and he said to my. We're

12:51

going to run this on the run, the site knives

12:53

and and Gibson said say i'm not I just ticket

12:55

to touch Bury A let's go when a hard time

12:57

because the lines were in the late. And

13:00

Barry said same Mike I'm running this guy to

13:02

be with me or not with me. But I'm

13:04

running this. I can see what's going. Gave. On.

13:07

Them by other started this may with alliance go

13:09

to try at the other end of the bet.

13:11

It was a wonderful try to call got and

13:13

at a party he was telling me that might

13:15

gives was just jumping up and guy and all

13:17

over observed we did it we did it would

13:19

exhibit you know that found a thought that this

13:21

will impart the barrier hard on the rest of

13:23

the team or was that. All

13:30

at. The

13:32

front line. Vandalize

13:36

and then. I see this

13:38

was the biggest thing. even bigger than

13:40

the bulk of the Beatles have a

13:42

had of Days of the Alice and

13:44

the weeks after. it was so intense

13:46

and the say I was singled out

13:48

farm farm we'll call him and says

13:50

but the thing was it was taken

13:52

his tongue and and it's up. To.

13:55

This day people thought that the we're getting

13:57

paid. Know. we were all amateurs

13:59

my job was with him at the bank,

14:01

it got a bit too much in the end.

14:03

It was just something that rugby players weren't accustomed

14:05

to. There was none of the

14:08

protection that goes with modern day players,

14:10

obviously particularly so in football, but also

14:12

in rugby as well. And

14:14

he was being inundated nonstop, he said,

14:17

with people wanting autographs, wanting photos with

14:19

him, you name it. I read that

14:21

women curtied to him in the street.

14:24

Is that true? Yes, he said that

14:26

that was the final draw for him.

14:28

It was somebody from Real that

14:31

made him think, hang on, this is not ordinary.

14:33

I can't put up with this anymore. And it

14:35

was that that he said was the final thing

14:37

that made him pack it in at 27. Absolutely

14:40

ice the blue in his heyday, in

14:42

his pump. He just couldn't handle

14:44

that sort of thing. He felt this was becoming

14:47

abnormal and he'd step away from it. It was

14:49

a decision I didn't want to make, obviously. And

14:51

either way, it was the right one. And again,

14:53

it was the wrong one. Frankly,

14:55

it was a case of trying to weigh up what

14:57

was being offered at the time. And at

14:59

the end of the day, I realized, well, come

15:01

on, it's the head and the heart job,

15:04

the heart tells you carry on playing for

15:06

Wales and the head tells you, come on,

15:08

you better call the daymate. He was also

15:10

telling me that after he announced that he

15:12

was retiring, there was an old lady in

15:15

her 70s who approached him and said, Barry,

15:17

I will give you my life savings if

15:19

you carry on playing. I haven't got much.

15:22

It amounted to 750 pounds, but it's

15:24

all yours because you're one of the

15:26

few things I've got to look forward

15:28

to on a Saturday afternoon. He

15:30

just transcended rugby,

15:33

if you like, sport. Was he aware,

15:35

do you think, of being one of

15:37

the all time greats of rugby union?

15:40

Yeah, he knew what his stature

15:42

was, but there wasn't an arrogance with

15:44

it. He would say to me things like,

15:47

ah, they'd start a rugby game when I turned

15:49

up or I never dropped a

15:51

ball in training or I never lost

15:53

again to England. But it honestly wasn't

15:55

with arrogance, although it sounds it was

15:57

always with a smile on his shoulders.

16:00

face but he was humble in

16:02

it. Paula Vandonato on Barry John

16:04

who's died age 79. Now

16:06

Robie Harris was the American author who

16:09

introduced generations of children around the world

16:11

to sex and sexuality. Her

16:14

best-known book was called It's Perfectly Normal

16:16

in the US and Let's Talk About

16:18

Sex in the UK. She

16:21

wrote many other books for children including

16:23

Let's Talk About Where Babies Come From

16:25

and It's So Amazing,

16:27

a book about eggs, sperm, birth,

16:29

babies and families. But

16:31

her work was controversial and at one

16:34

time It's Perfectly Normal was amongst the

16:36

most banned books in the United States.

16:39

The illustrator who worked on the book

16:41

with her was Michael Embellie. He told

16:43

me Robie had a background in child

16:45

development and was undaunted by the challenges

16:47

she faced. She was a fourth

16:49

of nature but she was very quiet, you know,

16:51

the kind of person that you might

16:53

misjudge if you didn't know her. She

16:56

might walk into a room and you think, oh here's

16:58

this woman, she was kind of round and and

17:01

had short gray hair and she'd speak

17:03

very slowly but you

17:05

would, unless you were completely imperceptive, you'd find

17:07

out quickly that she was a fourth to

17:09

be reckoned with and she would keep moving

17:11

in the direction she was going to move

17:13

in. Michael first met Robie at a book

17:15

signing in the late 1980s. When she asked

17:18

if he'd like to work with her on

17:20

a book about sex and sexuality for children,

17:22

he was nervous. This is an

17:24

honest answer at the tone at the time

17:26

was such that I knew that if

17:28

I was going to do a book on

17:30

sexuality for kids that there's

17:33

every possibility I might not work again. To

17:35

be a thoughtful adult I needed to

17:38

consider that doing this would be

17:40

a risk and ultimately

17:42

I decided to do it as she

17:44

was convincing. And what did

17:46

she tell you about her aspirations for

17:48

the book? How did she want it

17:50

to appear and why was she doing

17:52

it? At the time HIV was rampant

17:54

and that sadly was the motivation for

17:56

publishers to get involved in doing books

17:58

on sexuality for for young people

18:01

in particular. But the idea of

18:03

reaching down to the younger ages

18:05

to discuss sexuality was not normal,

18:07

even amongst people that were willing

18:09

to start ramping up

18:11

sex ed for young adults, say. So

18:14

her intent was to try to produce a book

18:16

that was as clear and as honest and

18:18

was intended for children. What age

18:20

children? We should be clear about

18:23

that. Pubescent kids, but pre-active. In

18:25

other words, they're not involved with

18:27

sexuality per se, but they're at

18:29

the age where they've already hit

18:31

puberty. So it was really

18:33

intended for kid enough, really, and

18:35

then early teens. What style of

18:37

illustration did you develop? Was it

18:39

anatomical? It was, but it was

18:42

cartoony as well. I mean, that was the thing.

18:44

How realistic, how cartoony. It was

18:46

a balance and we developed a look and

18:50

we came down to what we thought was

18:52

a nice soft technique using a pencil line

18:54

and soft color, semi-realistic, but

18:57

not super realistic. Now you were

18:59

aware that it was going to

19:01

be potentially controversial. So what was

19:03

the reaction when It's Perfectly Normal

19:05

was first published? The

19:07

reaction initially was obviously people

19:09

had mixed feelings about it,

19:11

but the real controversy sort of came

19:14

later. And there's always going to be

19:16

controversy about anything to do with children's

19:18

information and education, particularly sexuality. And in

19:20

the United States, I'm not

19:23

a political expert, but I firmly believe

19:25

that a lot of the controversy surrounding

19:27

the books was politically motivated. It

19:29

was, it simply became

19:32

something that they could hold up and

19:34

say, this is what's wrong with America,

19:36

putting these books into school libraries and

19:38

classrooms and even using it as a

19:40

textbook. I was called up by the

19:42

reporter and he asked me as they always

19:45

do, you know, do you want to defend

19:47

your books? I say, no, I'm proud of

19:49

the work I do. And then he told

19:51

me the following that Xerox pages were

19:53

passed out at the community meeting.

19:55

The Families left with young

19:58

children, high school kids. Ah,

20:01

all the way through and went. And they

20:03

burned the pages of the book at a

20:05

bonfire. And. He said so That

20:08

fab of burning right? My said well actually

20:10

it is because you burn. The.

20:12

Words. I created the images that

20:14

Michael Amberley created. But what's worse?

20:17

Is. That. The. Message children was

20:20

if you don't like something distorted.

20:22

Initially I was really surprised by couple things.

20:25

One. I'll. Be she thought

20:27

that images and reduce C must face able

20:29

her or and sexuality it's such a might

20:31

be. Controversial. But.

20:33

Surprisingly, just simple nudity.

20:36

The. Images of of the nude.

20:39

Human body. Work with this.

20:41

Very strong reactions about a lot

20:44

of discomfort. Is not my

20:46

book. It's many children's books and as

20:48

a lot of the top ten list

20:50

of set of books that have been

20:53

challenge every year five or six or

20:55

seven our children's books and children's need

20:57

to have the best chance at reading

20:59

fiction or nonfiction to find themselves and

21:01

the deal with a world in which

21:04

they live in. So I'm a real

21:06

defender of kids like to. Read: We're

21:08

proud that we work so hard on at

21:10

least a job that we spent so many

21:12

hours and Ruby's Kitchen Endless endless hours that

21:15

we'd end up mickey. Twenty five cents an

21:17

hour. You know? we were together for three

21:19

years on the first book and really works

21:21

probably for a total of five years. On

21:23

and off on the text. And.

21:25

She would sweat the details. She

21:28

would call three people to get

21:30

a particular paragraph wrist and approved

21:32

to be extremely useful after the

21:34

book Chemo people really said. We.

21:36

Love the illustrations in the art and

21:39

it is. It's been so the accuracy.

21:41

But. One of the things that we

21:43

truly find useful is the language going

21:46

to that such and finding simply a

21:48

sentence that was crafted. Siege.

21:50

Appropriate and useful and.

21:53

Enabling. Them to either use it as

21:55

they're only response, are using it as

21:57

a starting point for a lifelong conversation.

22:00

Michael Emberley on Roby Harris, who's died aged

22:02

83. This week,

22:04

last words also go to the former Irish

22:06

Prime Minister John Bruton. He served

22:08

as Taoiseach from 1994 to 1997

22:11

and was involved in the developing

22:13

Northern Ireland peace process alongside John

22:16

Major. They both signed

22:18

the Anglo-Irish Framework document. And

22:21

we remember the choreographer and theatre director,

22:23

Eleanor Fazan, who was known as Fizz.

22:25

During a career lasting over 60

22:27

years, she worked with many big

22:29

names, including Alan Bennett, Barry Humphreys

22:31

and Laurence Olivier. And

22:34

talking of big theatrical names, the

22:36

actor Ian Lavender starred alongside Dustin

22:38

Hoffman in The Merchant of Venice.

22:40

He played countless stage roles and

22:42

appeared in EastEnders and Yes Minister.

22:45

But there was one part above

22:47

all that defined his career, Private

22:49

Pike in Dad's Army. The

22:51

catchphrases of the character he first created when

22:53

he was 22 years old stayed with him

22:55

for the rest of his life. Here's

22:58

Ian appearing on Celebrity Mastermind alongside

23:00

his great friend, the musician Rick

23:02

Wakeman. The chairman is John Humphreys.

23:05

And our third contender please. And

23:07

your name is? Don't tell him Pike. We'll

23:10

start. Even here. We

23:12

will. I first met

23:14

Ian Lavender on the Isle of Man

23:16

of all places where he was appearing

23:18

at the Gayate Theatre in

23:21

a play called Who Killed Agatha Christie?

23:24

And I said, I'm a huge Dad's Army

23:26

fan. He said, I know. I

23:28

said, can I ask you a couple of questions? He

23:30

said, far away, as long as I can ask you

23:32

some questions about music. And I said, yeah,

23:35

all right then. I left the Sefton

23:37

Hotel half past four in the morning and

23:40

we remained bosom friends ever since. Ian

23:43

Lavender grew up in Birmingham and his love

23:45

of acting came first from going to the

23:47

cinema, as his agent of 30 years, Hilary

23:49

Gargan, told me. He was

23:51

an avid fan of Buster Keaton

23:53

and used to go off and

23:55

see films at the cinema when

23:58

he could. And that's what he did. decided

24:00

he wanted to do. Ian loved his

24:02

cricket, he loved his sport, he

24:04

could actually have been a professional cricketer, he was

24:06

a great wicket keeper and I believe was on

24:09

the books as a sort of a youngster with

24:11

North Hamptonshire. He

24:13

really did love his cricket and very knowledgeable too.

24:16

What was his first jobs in acting?

24:18

His first job I think was in

24:20

rep and it's whilst he was in

24:23

rep that someone had said to him,

24:25

oh I think you'd be right for

24:27

this television programme and that's how he

24:30

came to be cast. I had to

24:32

report to the television centre and there

24:34

were all these people, faces I recognised

24:37

and they'd all got suitcases and it

24:40

had occurred to me that I wasn't becoming home tonight.

24:43

I packed a bag with whatever clean bits

24:45

of my sock got and arrived in time

24:47

for the bus to go to. And

24:59

he was joining a cast of very

25:01

experienced performers wasn't he? People who had

25:03

had long and successful careers. How

25:06

did he feel about that? He learnt

25:08

a lot, that's what he wanted to do. I

25:11

mean you know they were all really special

25:13

performers if you think about it. I mean

25:15

they used to have some great terms together.

25:17

I likened it many a time to going

25:19

to a summer school every year. We

25:21

start rehearsing the second series and Arthur Loam

25:24

takes me on one side one afternoon. I

25:26

know there aren't a lot of lines at

25:28

the moment but don't worry they'll come. In

25:31

the meantime, get

25:33

yourself a funny costume and stand near me.

25:36

Ian took Arthur Loam's advice, pulling Private Pike's

25:38

hat down over his ears and adopting

25:40

a long woolen scarf that became a

25:42

trademark. I went up to the then

25:45

wardrobe in BBC and picked

25:47

out this scarf because it

25:50

was Aston Villa. I thought it

25:52

was that. It was Aston Villa. And

25:56

everybody went, oh well done West Ham. So I

25:58

kept my mouth shut. That's

26:00

where the Scott's going from. And protect.

26:04

Hi. Waboom. Very

26:08

quiet, Fraser. He was

26:10

particularly close to John Laurie, you know,

26:12

the Scottish actor, because they both have

26:14

a lot of crossword puzzles. So

26:17

on the set, they used to

26:19

order two copies of the times,

26:21

and they both so often see who could beat each other.

26:25

What about the fame that came with it, because

26:27

millions of people were watching these episodes, and he

26:29

must have got stopped in the street. I mean,

26:31

he must have had the catchphrases shouted at him.

26:33

Did he get annoyed by it? No,

26:35

I don't think he did. He probably

26:37

did, but he wouldn't have shown it.

26:39

And, yes, Stupid Boy was the main

26:41

one, of course. Sorry, Mr. Money. I

26:43

missed the dummy, and I couldn't stop

26:45

myself. Stupid Boy, look at my head. And

26:49

don't tell him Pike. And don't tell him

26:51

Pike, yes. Whistle while

26:53

you work. He's very such

26:55

work. He's half army. He's

26:58

half army. Whistle while your name

27:00

and also God. What

27:03

is it? Tell him Pike. Hi.

27:07

He told me some wonderful stories about Daz Army.

27:09

He loved talking about Daz Army. Extremely

27:12

proud of being in Daz Army. And,

27:14

you know, the number of times I heard people shout

27:16

across the street, You stupid boy. Don't tell him your

27:18

name. And he loved it. He

27:21

said how many actors would give their eye

27:23

teeth to have been given an iconic part

27:25

like Pike and be remembered for it? He

27:27

said Pike will be here long after I've

27:29

gone. How true those words are.

27:44

I lost Sawyer in just a couple of days before

27:46

he left us. He was really

27:48

very, very poorly. But still in

27:50

fine spirits. And in

27:52

fact, even though he couldn't speak very

27:54

loudly because he was quite weak, he

27:56

beckoned me down to his mouth. told

28:00

me a joke. I can't repeat

28:03

it but it's hilariously funny but if we

28:05

have a memorial service for Ian I'll tell

28:07

it there. Rick Wakeman on

28:09

Ian Lavender who's died age 77. This

28:12

week you also heard last words on

28:15

the author Robey Harris, the rugby player

28:17

Barry John and the campaigner Dr. Luigi

28:19

O'Donoghue. Don't forget there are hundreds of

28:21

other fascinating life stories in the Last

28:24

Word Archive on BBC Sounds.