0:10

Hello, and welcome to Episode 280 of Late Night

0:13

Linux, recorded on the 6th of May, 2024. I'm

0:16

Joe, and with me are Fadim. How's it

0:18

going? Graham. Good evening. And

0:21

Jim. Howdy-ho. Yeah, Will

0:23

is feeling a little under the weather, so Jim

0:25

has stepped in. Thank you for joining us, Jim.

0:28

Thanks for having me. People may know you from

0:30

Two and a Half Admins. Seems unlikely. You

0:32

never know. Right, let's get on with the news

0:35

then. A quick mention for Fedora 40,

0:37

which has come out. Now none of

0:39

us run Fedora, so we're not really going to talk about

0:41

it, but I thought it was worth a shout out. It

0:43

looks like a great release if you're into that sort of

0:45

thing. But we are going

0:48

to talk about Ubuntu 24.04, Noble

0:50

Numbat, which has come out. I

0:52

thought it was actually going to be delayed, but then they managed

0:55

to get it out on time. It does

0:57

come across as a bit more of a delayed

0:59

dingo than a Noble Numbat, to be honest. Yeah,

1:01

what jumped out to me in the announcement, the

1:03

official canonical one, was that Shotaworth says it's going

1:06

to be supported for at least 12 years. Now

1:09

we know five years of free support, an

1:12

extra five years if you go for the

1:14

Ubuntu Pro, and then they recently announced this

1:16

extra two years. But

1:18

that suggests that he's got more in the

1:20

works. Now I know you couldn't possibly know

1:22

anything about that, Graham. No, all

1:25

I know is that it takes me very close to

1:27

the age that my parents could retire. It's

1:30

an awfully long time, but yeah, I think

1:32

that that might get extended during the life

1:34

of this, and he's hedging his bets

1:36

there. The desktop installer

1:39

is new. It's this Flutter-based one, and

1:41

it now supports automated installs with the

1:43

YAML file, which is quite cool

1:46

if you've got a fleet of machines. Although,

1:48

don't people normally do that just by imaging

1:51

them, rather than going through the installation? I've

1:53

seen it done both ways. I'm personally more

1:55

a fan of the imaging route, but you'd

1:57

definitely see it happen both ways in the

1:59

wild. I think

2:01

we are very desperately short on the amount of things

2:03

using YAML and it's good that they're keeping it alive.

2:05

Yeah, just make sure you get your spaces right. Yeah,

2:09

fucking net plan. Fuck you. What? You

2:12

thought you knew how to configure this?

2:14

I've changed. I noticed a

2:16

strong emphasis on working with Microsoft in the

2:18

announcement as well. Well, they've been buddy-buddy for

2:20

a while now, haven't they? Yeah, yeah, but

2:22

that relationship is going from strength to strength

2:24

by the looks of things. Yeah, I mean,

2:26

it is what it is. On the one

2:28

hand, we might prefer to have less Microsoft

2:30

in our canonical, but on the other hand,

2:33

it doesn't seem like having some canonical in our Microsoft has

2:35

really hurt us much over the last few years, so I'm

2:38

not going to whine about it. What about you, Phantom? Are

2:40

you going to whine about it? I'm going to say nothing

2:42

if I can say nothing, no. Has

2:45

anyone actually tried this properly yet, then?

2:47

Oh, God, yes, I've actually been running

2:49

it in production for way too long

2:51

because I built a gaming rig for

2:53

my kid for his birthday, and the gaming rig had

2:55

a very new GPU in it that

2:58

needed a very recent kernel. And rather than try

3:00

to faff about with backports, I just went ahead

3:02

and installed the noble beta, thinking, well, noble

3:05

will drop in production just in time for my

3:07

kid's birthday, which it didn't

3:09

quite, but it came real close. And

3:12

in general, I mean, it's usable. Put

3:14

that on the poster. Yeah,

3:16

yeah, in general, the beta was usable.

3:19

It wasn't great. I

3:22

still notice a few things that

3:24

feel significantly slower and clunkier and

3:26

noble than in previous releases. I'm

3:28

just kind of hoping that will

3:30

work itself out over time, essentially. It's a

3:33

lot like the difference that I feel if

3:35

I go from Ubuntu to Fedora. You

3:37

have some weird – kind

3:40

of hard to put your finger on it. It

3:42

feels slower to start apps sometimes, but generally, everything's

3:44

okay once it gets up and running, and that's

3:46

the way that running on noble has felt for

3:48

the last few weeks. Now,

3:50

one thing that has changed with

3:52

this release is that there's a

3:55

new app center, and

3:57

this thing cannot or will not install. third-party

4:00

devs that you've just downloaded, which

4:03

means that if you go to download

4:05

Chrome and try and open

4:07

the file, it just gives you weird

4:09

errors that are very unhelpful and

4:12

you don't have Chrome installed. Now

4:15

the argument for this is

4:17

security, which okay I understand, but

4:19

at the same time this

4:21

is supposed to be mainstream Linux and if

4:23

you can't run Chrome on it or you

4:25

can't install it using the GUI, then

4:28

something has gone very wrong as far

4:30

as I'm concerned. Now yeah, you can

4:32

just dpackage-i install it, but

4:35

somehow that it just doesn't sit right

4:37

with me that normal people can't install

4:39

Chrome with a GUI. Well this is

4:41

one of those where it got painted with the

4:43

shitty end of the stick on both sides so

4:46

it ends up being not quite as bad arguably

4:48

because in my experience the

4:50

old App Center was very unreliable to

4:52

to actually install the Chrome or any

4:54

other dev directly from the browser anyway

4:57

and I usually did already resort to downloading

4:59

the dev and then hitting the terminal and

5:01

doing a dpackage-i with it or in most

5:03

recent releases you can actually use apt directly

5:05

on a downloaded dev, but either way yeah

5:07

I'm accustomed to hitting command line for that.

5:09

Now not every

5:11

App Center is that way when I

5:13

tested the the same essentially under the

5:16

hood you know GNOME App Center when

5:18

I tested it on clear Linux for

5:20

example everything went

5:22

instantaneously there if you clicked

5:24

the download Chrome button and just you know

5:27

let the native associations bring it into the

5:30

GNOME App Center the software center or whatever they

5:32

called it everything just instantly completed

5:34

but in Ubuntu it's always been one of those like

5:36

well if you let it do that maybe it will

5:38

work after like 45 to

5:41

80 seconds of thinking about it or maybe

5:43

it just completely won't and after several times

5:45

of dealing with that annoyance I finally just

5:48

stopped and every time it's like nope right-click

5:50

save as and hit the terminal and

5:52

dpackage-i. I don't understand why Canonical

5:55

have not worked with Google to ship a Chrome

5:57

snap. Graham I Have a

5:59

work. The Them: Hang on Joe. Is

6:02

that really what you want? Are

6:04

you really the one is here saying

6:07

you know we want conical the to

6:09

go ahead and and directed bundle That

6:11

commercial proprietary thing that we're normally ranting

6:13

about being this the stranglehold on the

6:16

web really normal sane bundler in the

6:18

shipped iso. Of. Say put it in

6:20

the snap store so that you can say. Just

6:23

go and search for it in the Sap

6:25

center. I. Thought half the point is shifting

6:27

everything. Snaps was comical, not wanting to have to

6:29

be the ones to do the packaging and expecting

6:31

everybody else to do it for I'm. A

6:34

don't about that. I think it's more about been

6:36

able to just package it once or that it

6:38

was his was cross all the destroys that snaps

6:40

what some. I. Just

6:42

seem to recall it being supposedly a very

6:44

big selling point that. Mozilla, Was

6:46

supposedly doing the vast majority the packaging

6:48

on this firefox snap that. Did.

6:51

Not perform. As well as

6:53

anybody expected them to. Remember. That

6:55

whole fiasco, Well, I'm so he's in

6:57

this lapidus fine. Well it's gotten better than

6:59

it was. Still not completely fine but I

7:02

will grant you'd is. Enormously.

7:04

Better than it was for over

7:07

a year in production. Yeah, Well.

7:10

If. You don't want he snaps than the been

7:12

to is a guy of sync because the minimal

7:14

installation of as have been to. Then.

7:16

He took any snaps at all. You. Do

7:18

get snap day. By. Does

7:21

feel like am. I

7:23

don't. I fucking to canonical. Maybe

7:25

I'm sure Canonical be along soon

7:27

enough to rectify that. That little

7:29

problem itself. Assess. Assess. assess. The

7:31

only have to do is just

7:33

pod snap day and then you

7:35

go completely snap possible to. Buy.

7:37

You another browser and know labor office

7:39

and know basically anything on the minimal

7:42

seventy bucks. it's a nice option. At.

7:44

Some point you have to ask yourself, why

7:46

are not just installing Debbie in and been

7:48

done with it? Mere true, true. Honestly, I

7:50

keep thinking more and more about trying to

7:52

go back to Debbie and lately because sir,

7:55

I went from Debbie and to have been too

7:57

because have been to made life an awful lot.

8:00

The Or than Debbie and did and it's

8:02

just. It's. Getting the point that

8:04

I'm no longer convince that's going to be the

8:06

case? Never going to answer that for sure others

8:08

and like really actually trying it and finding out.

8:11

But. Yet as get the point that I feel

8:13

like I'm fighting so much Crofton have been to

8:15

that I wonder like would it be easier to

8:17

go back to the debbie and way an ad

8:20

in the bits I want that weren't there residents

8:22

sticking with the canonical way which is try to

8:24

deal with the bits that you don't want fighting

8:26

just loss in Katine A on pretty much yeah

8:28

I mean I have does our like the way

8:31

neon doesn't. I do like the extra work that

8:33

the chemical teams put into security whatever job as

8:35

a lot more eyeballs are get paid day in

8:37

day to do at work. What?

8:39

I like to see Debbie in a combos

8:42

you base well I'm not sure. I dunno

8:44

I do lights the fact that the katie

8:46

parts and a bit that show up fifty

8:48

and the rest of it doesn't I'm told

8:50

he thought about that and the Fairfax. While

8:53

it's a t A for for neon so

8:55

I don't have an issue with the browser

8:57

does not use in the south for up

8:59

but you know it's are now it's destroyed

9:02

mix for me and I. I don't want

9:04

that sense. I. Do think it's the

9:06

same the i'm becoming a plasma since and to

9:08

them to or as an official practice. I.

9:10

Mean, I understand there's a cutoff. the I mean that would

9:12

have been great. Yeah as can be.

9:15

an awesome job. Some size six far

9:17

as well like a long as they're

9:19

gonna back Porto seems a bit scary

9:21

back for books maybe maybe the can

9:23

we have otherwise you a in two

9:25

years has this point and let's face

9:28

it Plasma Five is already wells roby

9:30

on the end of the is supported

9:32

releases about voice surely mean stable now.

9:36

Farmhouse My point of this moink tried

9:38

and tested to try to test the

9:40

out as a successful. I feel like

9:42

when Salem says something. About eighty years bad

9:45

you did. You don't ask any more questions.

9:47

He says sale as I. Noted

9:50

I am very by own sources

9:52

of even given a lawyer Hum

9:54

very unbiased gotta ssssss. Burned.

9:57

By to up sensor. That. soon

10:00

name clash with elementary OS's App

10:02

Center, which is one word. And

10:04

I feel like they must

10:07

have known about that, and it's a shit thing

10:09

to do because elementary has

10:11

built their whole thing around App

10:13

Center and selling apps in it.

10:15

Well then, they should have given

10:17

it a more unique name that

10:19

was trademarkable instead of something completely

10:21

generic like App Center. There are

10:23

only so many ways to say

10:25

Software Center or App Center without

10:27

coming up with a name that

10:29

isn't just descriptive. Canonical could

10:31

have spelt it right though to be fair. What does that

10:33

mean? Instead of ER, they could have

10:36

spelt it the British way. I

10:39

didn't notice that because in general Canonical uses

10:41

British English for everything. Yeah, like the flavors

10:43

have got a U in them. Well, all

10:45

of our documentation is British English. So it's

10:47

very odd that it's centered within ER, but

10:49

there you go. From this American's

10:51

perspective, I would say Canonical is about 50-50

10:53

down the middle with when they spell things

10:55

American or British. We

10:58

talked about this on 2.5 admins, so we

11:00

shouldn't spend too long on it. But ZFS

11:02

en-route is back with this version of Ubuntu,

11:04

but you don't recommend it, Jim? No, I don't.

11:06

If you want ZFS en-route, there are way better

11:08

ways to get at the big one being ZFS

11:11

boot menu. It's a little bit more of a

11:13

pain in the butt to do the

11:15

initial installation the ZFS boot menu way because

11:17

you do have to drop to a shell

11:19

and CH route into your installer and do

11:21

all that kind of monkeying around. But when

11:23

you're done, you're left with a system that

11:26

boots really cleanly and has a really nice

11:28

boot environment, and there aren't

11:30

any ugly jagged edges left around

11:32

to cut yourself on. And

11:35

that just really isn't the case with

11:37

ZFS, Canonical's way of getting grubbed to

11:39

boot ZFS. There are quite

11:42

a few things that were just sort of

11:44

left undone or not entirely thought out, and

11:47

it seems to me that Canonical just sort of

11:49

abandoned it half-cooked and put the devs who are

11:51

working on it onto other things, whether they liked

11:53

it or not. So all in all

11:55

a great release then, eh? Being fair

11:58

talking about Canonical and ZFS, it's... still

12:00

worth mentioning that Ubuntu is very much

12:02

still a first-class citizen if you want

12:04

to have ZFS on Linux, including root,

12:07

just because that you don't have to faff

12:10

about with any DKMS nonsense. You can literally

12:12

just install it from packages in the repo

12:15

with first-class support directly from the distribution, and

12:17

that's pretty hard to come by in the

12:19

Linux world these days. There's your reason not

12:22

to use Debian there, I suppose, because that

12:24

wouldn't be DKMS at that point. Exactly,

12:27

yeah. Debian is generally considered

12:29

a top-tier platform if you're

12:31

going to do DKMS-based ZFS. But

12:34

yeah, you're right. If you don't want to do DKMS,

12:36

then Debian's right out. Honestly,

12:39

basically anything but Ubuntu is right

12:41

out, because either you're doing DKMS

12:43

or you're building your own packages

12:45

and populating your own repository manually.

12:47

So yeah, it's either really DKMS,

12:49

Ubuntu, or FreeBSD. No, take that

12:51

last one off. You don't need that. OK,

12:56

this episode is sponsored by Collide.

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Linux. Onto

14:07

a bit of admin then. First of all thank you

14:09

everyone who supports us with PayPal and Patreon. We really

14:12

do appreciate that. If you want

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to join those people you can go

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to latenightlinux.com/support and remember that for

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free RSS feed of either just this show or

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And if you want to get in contact you can

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email show at latenightlinux.com. Linux

14:30

can finally run your car's safety systems

14:32

and driver assistance features. This

14:34

is a piece on Ars Technica about a new

14:36

distro called EB Corbus

14:38

Linux for Safety Applications. Great

14:41

name. But this is from a company

14:43

called ElectraBit who have been working with Canonical on

14:45

it. And the bottom line is that

14:48

it brings together loads

14:50

of the bits of modern vehicles

14:52

into one system rather than being

14:55

just loads of disparate systems. Well

14:57

it's not quite that simple. The way

15:00

it's supposed to work is rather than having hundreds

15:02

of microcontrollers on a CAN bus essentially all

15:05

operating is peers. You're going to have one

15:07

or more. They're calling them domain

15:09

controllers that basically group together these

15:12

nodes and get information from them

15:14

and have a more modern networking

15:16

approach. I just wish they hadn't

15:18

decided to name them domain controllers.

15:21

As somebody who has to manage a lot

15:23

of Active Directory through the day like yeah

15:26

no potential for name confusion there. I

15:28

just pictured that guy who had that sudden

15:30

server sitting in the back of his car as

15:33

a giant mp3 player now trying to

15:35

install whatever the latest Windows server is

15:37

on it. I need to get my

15:39

domain controller sorted out. But this sounds like

15:42

it could be a good owner for Canonical potentially

15:44

because the auto industry is quite big. It is

15:46

and it could be. It just remains to see

15:48

how much traction they get with the various vendors.

15:51

You had the lighthearted gripe about you know

15:53

it's a great name. EB Corbus Linux for

15:55

Safety Applications but that's the thing about a

15:58

distro that literally nobody but a major. car

16:00

manufacturer ever would need

16:03

to install or manage, you

16:05

don't have to do a whole lot of branding on that.

16:07

Yeah. What I

16:10

like about this is the potential that

16:12

it could open up the system. Everything's

16:14

just so closed now and with us

16:16

knowing that at least there are Linux

16:18

components potentially in your car, in

16:20

theory, we could understand some of the protocols being

16:22

used and we could get access to them. I

16:25

kind of like the idea that

16:27

it condenses some of the information

16:29

security domains, the

16:31

vulnerability domains. Right now, you can

16:34

be an absolute expert in automotive

16:37

electronics and the CAN bus and the various

16:39

ways to hack that and whatever, but that

16:41

knowledge doesn't translate very directly to infosec knowledge

16:44

in the mainstream computing world and

16:46

vice versa. I'm actually

16:49

not upset about the idea that maybe

16:51

there's one less kind of hacking you

16:53

need to have just an incredibly

16:55

deep knowledge of to keep yourself safe, you

16:57

know? And it's a good sign

16:59

that Tufnord said that Rommel Wife's going to

17:01

hit me, but yeah,

17:04

the essentially standards organization of Germany is giving it

17:06

a thumbs up is a pretty big thing, I

17:08

would say. And we definitely shouldn't

17:10

worry because the likes of Chrysler and Ford and

17:12

Tesla definitely won't just take this Linux computer and

17:15

connect it directly to the cellular modem

17:17

in the car and put it right on the internet or anything. That'll

17:19

never happen. They wouldn't do that. Potentially

17:24

bad news for RISC-V. Google

17:26

have dropped support for it in their

17:29

Android common kernel, which is where they take

17:31

the upstream kernel and then add the Android

17:33

bits to it. Now,

17:35

it doesn't mean that they're completely abandoning RISC-V,

17:38

but it means that they have acknowledged that

17:40

RISC-V is nowhere near

17:42

ready yet. And so it's going to

17:44

be quite a while before we actually

17:48

start to see Android phones and

17:50

devices running RISC-V. Acknowledged

17:52

is very much the right word here because that's

17:54

the thing that I felt like you

17:56

could have drawn a bigger underline under, which

17:59

is that RISC-V is support didn't actually work

18:01

properly in the Android Common Kernel to begin

18:03

with. They're not stripping out functioning

18:05

code, you couldn't just

18:08

run Android on RISC-V with the Common

18:10

Kernel already and you still can't. The

18:13

other side of that is that when

18:15

you are doing RISC-V development with Android,

18:18

you're not using the Common Generic Kernel, you're using

18:20

a custom kernel, which is also the way that

18:22

a lot of the phone manufacturers do it. A

18:24

lot of the phone manufacturers aren't using the Common

18:26

Kernel, they use their own image. Yeah, exactly. They

18:28

take the kernel from Google and then fuck

18:30

with it even more. We're living in a world

18:32

essentially, the mobile computing world looks an

18:35

awful lot like the computing world of the 1970s and

18:37

1980s that I grew up with. It's a bunch of mile

18:40

high silos that don't really talk to each

18:42

other. You've got, you know, a custom image

18:45

for this hardware build that goes all the

18:47

way down, you can't run on any other

18:49

build or vice versa and very few of

18:51

the hardware builds will run a completely generic

18:53

version of the operating system because everything's designed

18:55

to be tweaked specifically tightly

18:57

for that one specific silo.

19:00

In case you can't tell, I didn't like that in

19:02

the 70s and 80s. And I don't like it now. Well,

19:05

it actually gets worse because we

19:07

keep hearing rumblings from the US government about

19:09

trying to stop Chinese in RISC-V,

19:12

which I don't really understand how

19:14

that's going to work because RISC-V is

19:17

licensed permissively. And

19:19

there are loads of companies already

19:21

making RISC-V SOCs in China. Do

19:24

you not remember the export control kerfuffle

19:26

around MP3s back in the day?

19:28

Well, and encryption and stuff as well, right? Yeah, your

19:31

licensing rights, that's a civil issue.

19:33

You can set those all you like. But

19:35

when the United States government puts an export

19:37

ban on a piece of technology, you

19:40

don't have any rights anymore.

19:43

As far as that goes. I mean, you are a United

19:45

States citizen and the government has said, nope, you don't have

19:47

that right. You can't send that out there. And

19:49

usually when they do those export bans

19:51

on anything software related, it's absolute nonsense.

19:54

And they're doing it long after whoever

19:56

they don't like already has the technology in

19:58

question and cannot pop possibly get

20:01

hurt from that ban. So it's just political

20:03

bullshit then? Yeah, it's kabuki. When

20:05

we had the export ban on, like you

20:07

said, you know, cryptographic stuff, but like open

20:09

VPN had been out in the wild for

20:12

years before that technology got

20:14

export banned. So it's like, what

20:17

is, what purpose is this serving? Or

20:19

you know, you look at when the DCSS got banned

20:22

and you know, people are like walking around with t-shirts

20:24

with the source code to it printed on it. Just

20:27

because it's stupid and you can't do it

20:29

will not stop United States politicians. Imagine

20:32

though it would stop say a company like

20:34

Huawei maybe trying to sell a risk

20:36

five phone back into the US though.

20:38

Oh yeah. Sure. It's

20:41

not going to stop Huawei from selling it in China though.

20:44

And it's not going to stop Huawei from if that

20:46

phone does really well in China, getting footholds you know,

20:48

in all the rest of the world and you keep

20:50

doing that, you keep doing that and that's how you

20:53

make your own country a benighted backwater that doesn't have

20:55

access to any of the good stuff. And

20:58

over here, you know, within the glorious

21:00

confines of the United States of America,

21:02

we tend to believe we have all the best of

21:05

everything and it's about keeping everybody else from getting the

21:07

good stuff we have, but it

21:10

doesn't always work that way.

21:13

And this personal American is well aware of

21:15

that and concerned about all

21:17

this xenophobia. Sounds awful lot like

21:19

Brexit Britain to me, Jim. Yeah. Well,

21:22

the apple did not fall far from that particular shitty

21:24

tree. Which way round is that? Indeed.

21:28

Amorok 3.0 Castaway released.

21:32

What Amorok? That's that

21:34

media play that everyone raved about about 20 years

21:36

ago, isn't it? Well, I'll tell you, I install

21:38

it and it's brilliant. I missed it so much.

21:40

I didn't realize how much I missed it. I

21:43

have to do some funky with my database that

21:45

was trying to import. It runs its own DB

21:48

to store all the stuff, but it's so nice to

21:50

see it again. And my config

21:52

file that has clearly been there for the last God

21:55

knows how many? probably decades at this

21:57

point worked fine and then took away

21:59

the. It all center wiki Pdf

22:01

Powell because I was literally to

22:03

wasting the entire dates playing attract

22:05

and then following the bombs his

22:08

see through the seventy assess at

22:10

midnight Gmt thousands on that yeah

22:12

get no worked on a sensei

22:14

so your skills. So they

22:16

are on to T Five and Frameworks Five

22:18

right now was the process to get up

22:21

to six should be an awful lot easier

22:23

than what they have to go through to

22:25

get up to five on I think. pretty.

22:27

What's the Plasma Six role as been really

22:30

good? I mean they will have a lot

22:32

more work to do Books. It's. Kind

22:34

of good to see this come back

22:36

to life against because I mean doesn't

22:38

roll it up a just censored and

22:40

died through Now being Abandons are not

22:42

developed as much as it used to

22:45

be and I I don't know I

22:47

time Mr. I liked that Excel sheet

22:49

media player. If you've got a lot

22:51

of music and you want a sorcerer

22:53

us the former works means yeah. I

22:56

think the nice thing about America's it's the

22:58

best and worst of Kd in that you

23:00

can actually make it look and act like

23:02

any other border player. You know you can

23:05

get rid of all those panels you can

23:07

get rid of like the mood bar you

23:09

can make it look like they'll see been

23:11

same time. You can also includes a folder

23:13

browsing which I find essential and I like

23:16

the rating system and allowed stuff so you'd

23:18

turn it into like at a music player

23:20

Id A so I'm really happy to have

23:22

a bad. As others works all

23:24

right with Plasma Six then yes were signed.

23:26

I mean I had a bit of.i roast

23:29

can attest that but I had a thing

23:31

where didn't them for some of my music

23:33

books that might be just fucked up. I

23:35

plan to cards quite a bit of so

23:37

father and didn't really is tied it up

23:40

so I'm not sure what these use. Their

23:42

books are played music gonna just earlier has

23:44

told define like it's great. For.

23:46

A Fight him. You wanted to

23:48

plugs Academy Twenty Twenty four. Yeah,

23:51

just very simply that registration is open

23:53

now and it's can be inverse birds.

23:55

It's gonna be online and in person

23:58

on it's from Saturday the seventh. The

24:00

Thursday, the twelfth of September right? Well put

24:02

link in the shown Us. right?

24:05

Well we better get out of here then.

24:07

Thank you very much for joining us to

24:09

get a beer for feel. Stick around for

24:11

next week then I think we can range

24:13

that will be back next week. Until then

24:15

I've been jump I mean from has been

24:17

Graham and I've been gym series of.