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0:44

this was a very big day, a

0:47

very revealing day as you see

0:49

their cases totally falling apart. I

0:52

mean, a big day is an understatement,

0:54

but looking past the Trump spin, did

0:56

Stormy Daniels move the needle in favor

0:58

of the prosecution or the defense? Welcome

1:00

to a special edition of Laura Coates

1:02

Live alongside Abby Phillip right here in

1:04

New York. And look, day

1:06

13 of Trump's Manhattan hush money trial

1:09

is now officially in the books, and

1:11

it did not disappoint. For nearly four

1:13

hours, adult film actress and director, Stormy

1:15

Daniels, was on the stand just a

1:17

few feet away from Trump. Their first

1:19

face-to-face encounter in years. And yes, she

1:22

went there, taking us all in a lake

1:24

Tahoe hotel room where she alleges the two

1:27

had sex back in 2006. Now,

1:30

Trump says this absolutely never happened.

1:32

But his past denials did not stop

1:35

her from painting quite the picture. It

1:37

was salacious, it was

1:39

uncomfortable, and it was compelling. The

1:41

former president watched with rapt attention.

1:43

He was more invested than we

1:45

have seen him at this trial.

1:47

He was leaning in to watch

1:49

Daniels' testimony. He was urging his

1:51

attorneys to make objections. The

1:54

one thing that is for sure, though, this

1:56

testimony is what he certainly did not want

1:58

the world to hear. For some of

2:00

the most lurid moments, he was scowling, shaking

2:02

his head, even audibly cursing at points. Moments

2:06

like these, with prosecutor Susan Hoffinger

2:08

asking, can you briefly describe where

2:10

you had sex with him? Daniel's

2:13

response? The next thing I know, I

2:15

was on the bed, somehow on the opposite side of

2:17

the bed, from where he had been standing. And

2:20

I had my clothes off. I believe my

2:22

bra, however, was still on. We

2:24

were in the missionary position. Defense

2:27

attorney Susan Necklace objected. Was

2:29

Judge Mershon sustaining that objection?

2:32

Now, the flurry of objections going on

2:34

from there as the exchange went

2:36

on, what allegedly happened in that Lake

2:38

Tahoe hotel room, got more and more

2:41

explicit. Even Judge Mershon

2:43

appeared irritated at points, telling prosecutors

2:46

the degree of detail that was

2:48

happening there was just unnecessary. Trump's

2:51

defense team tried to push for a

2:53

mistrial after the break, a request that

2:55

the judge ultimately rejected. Now, actually, you

2:57

know, when Trump, their team got their

2:59

chance at cross-examination, it was fireworks. I

3:01

mean, defense attorney Necklace asking Daniels

3:03

if she hates Trump, to which she

3:05

admitted simply, yes. And Necklace, she sees

3:08

on this moment, repeatedly trying to undermine

3:10

her credibility and of course her motivations.

3:13

Even at one point, she accused

3:15

Daniels of trying to extort money

3:17

from Trump, with Daniels loudly replying,

3:20

quote, false. Now, there was

3:22

a lot of hype leading up to this testimony, as you

3:24

all know. You may have wondered, how

3:26

did she present to the jury? How would she

3:28

and how would she actually act on the stand?

3:31

But the ultimate question is this, and it's for the

3:33

jurors. How did they see all

3:35

of today's drama? Will they draw

3:38

connections between what she has said in

3:40

the stand and the actual charges against

3:42

Trump? This is the falsification of business

3:44

records. And if you thought, by

3:46

the way, today was wild, well, you best

3:48

buckle up because Stormy is back on the

3:50

stand on Thursday. I want

3:53

to bring in former Deputy Attorney General

3:55

Harry Litman, Washington correspondent for New York

3:57

Magazine, Olivia Nunzi. See you

3:59

then. Legal analysis, criminal offense. attorney Joey

4:01

Jackson, CNN legal analyst and former fellow

4:03

prosecutor Jennifer Rogers and CNN legal commentator

4:05

and former Trump White House lawyer Jim

4:07

Schultz. We've got a whole law school

4:09

law firm happening. You count two. So

4:11

do you. No, you still be the

4:14

two of us over here. We audited to our

4:16

law class. I can't wait to watch. I love

4:18

that they do. I'm the layman here. Well,

4:20

you're who you want to hear from. But Harry,

4:22

you were in the courtroom today and I am

4:25

dying to know. I need you to paint a

4:27

picture here because when Stormy first walked into that

4:29

courtroom, what was

4:31

it like? Yeah, you know, we

4:34

knew she was coming before the jury did

4:36

because the D.A. excuse me, the defense had brought

4:38

up some objection. So we knew the next

4:40

words we were going to hear is the

4:42

people call Stormy Daniels, which is what they

4:45

did say. Not Stephanie Clifford. And

4:47

the jury, there was, you know, visible

4:49

but silent kind of excitement. And

4:51

they were really focused. You know,

4:53

they've been hearing about it from

4:56

every different side for 12 days.

4:58

Right. And they were completely

5:00

focused. This is the woman at

5:02

the center of the whole storm

5:05

as it had been detailed by

5:07

the D.A. and they were they

5:09

were zeroed in. What were her

5:11

racial expressions like? Did she appear

5:13

to be smug, nervous, uncomfortable, confident?

5:16

What? Great question. I would if I

5:18

have to go with one of those, I go with

5:20

nervous. She answered pretty long.

5:23

She did a lot of quips that didn't

5:25

always land. She was intelligent and she did

5:27

detail a whole kind of hard

5:29

scrabble life that ended with a lot

5:31

of achievements before she gets into and

5:34

even after she gets into adult films.

5:36

But I think her you know, one

5:38

of the ways that she got in

5:40

trouble with the judge and some of

5:42

these extraneous details that obviously irked him

5:44

at one point, he made his own

5:47

objection and sustained it was by going

5:50

too far outside the question. He later

5:52

had Hoffinger did merchant take her back

5:54

and just tell her shorter

5:56

answers. Please listen to the question

5:58

and the like. So why

6:01

are moments? Of that what I mean

6:03

I and I am. I've been. I've been

6:05

polite, images a sextant what we the moment

6:07

that may valentine around me with a godless

6:09

either I of my the I'm talking about

6:11

the point how the jury was wrapped in

6:13

when she was describing the details are being

6:15

in that hotel room when she actually got

6:17

to be alleged sexual encounter with how what

6:19

what What was their body language lab with

6:21

a leaning and where they've. In

6:23

the with a with her yeah so I

6:25

was watching very carefully when the best things

6:27

about being in the courtroom you can really

6:30

see them and I gotta say I wasn't

6:32

sure was sort of three or four this

6:34

way and a few more back and I

6:36

know that core part of the stores and

6:38

there are a lot of objects is happening

6:41

the time for the reasons you're talking about.

6:43

March On Was very worried that some of

6:45

the details would be prejudicial to Trump so

6:47

the rhythm was a little bit arrested at

6:49

the same time, but I found myself more

6:52

than with any witness. In the trial not

6:54

clear if I didn't say believed or basic

6:56

story and she substantiated what she had to

6:58

say. but where they with are in a

7:01

way that really matter when they get into

7:03

the jury room. Did they like earth. Wasn't

7:06

clear to me one way or another.

7:08

Olivia adding that he is very was

7:10

there. But you know Stormy Daniels when

7:12

she's not. On a witness stand? What

7:14

is he actually like and d get

7:17

the sense from reading the transcript that

7:19

that came across the jury? Or is

7:21

it that whoever she really is is

7:23

something. That might come across as it authentic

7:25

to a jury. See is a cool

7:28

thoughtful person. See is really smart,

7:30

very shrewd and and and very

7:32

thoughtful and and she talks a

7:34

lot of nuance about this experience

7:37

and about most other experiences in

7:39

her life and I've I've heard

7:41

her talk about and. I've.

7:43

Never felt that she's read as your

7:45

fate core are putting on any type

7:47

of front for hims your fault. Frankly,

7:49

I don't know how that plays so

7:51

in a court room and we were

7:54

talking earlier about her evolution, about how

7:56

she was thinking about the power dynamics

7:58

between herself and and the defendant. The

8:00

former President, I'm That's one thing when

8:02

you're just having a conversation with somebody,

8:04

or when you're talking to a magazine

8:06

or you're talking on a podcast. I

8:08

think that might read quite differently, but

8:10

in a court and and might be

8:12

rather confusing. Yeah. We look

8:14

at this and as a d about how

8:16

this all plays. I phone or bring you

8:19

in here because you know this is about

8:21

document. Many gyms are you I guess is

8:23

the documents case was I'd whether this is

8:25

acting as case but is there some method

8:27

to the madness of having her describe with

8:29

detail and particularity what happened as she alleges

8:32

in the hotel room? Is it a try

8:34

to buy trust her credibility and her memory.

8:37

Well. You know, as the prosecution argued when

8:39

we have this this trial most and it

8:41

all goes to his intent. like why did

8:43

he so badly want this story not to

8:45

come out right? Because it's salacious. I mean,

8:48

look at the reactions the Harrys talking about

8:50

from the jurors mean everyone's perking up and

8:52

listening on. This is what he never wanted

8:54

to get out there. This is why he

8:56

was so intent on making sure that she

8:58

had to be quiet and rise as she

9:00

had to be hushed up with this hush

9:03

money payments. so that was part of that.

9:05

We may also of course wanted her to

9:07

corroborate. Some of what the jury's already heard

9:09

from David Parker from Keys Davis and the

9:11

Lawyer what Michael Cohen will say when he

9:13

gets on the Sands. So that's another part

9:15

of the reason. but the piece about the

9:17

sex and I. I don't think prosecutors necessarily

9:19

wanted her to go into all that detail.

9:22

I think they missteps a little bit there

9:24

are and didn't get her under control like

9:26

they think we should have done or but

9:28

to the extent that they're defending getting into

9:30

that at all. That's how they do it

9:32

when time we are shown some the koran

9:34

that it wasn't so much of the prosecution

9:36

with asking her questions. After question to get

9:38

that widened scope for that she was giving

9:41

long winded answer is that.the point there was

9:43

forced to avoid. Yard. Which you

9:45

know that the judge even said like

9:47

answer the question was asked right? So

9:49

and I think that was him Friday

9:51

during Control that yellow she he ever

9:53

go back with a lawyer? I think

9:55

you're right, I think they're they're trying

9:57

to. Them. To Florida for free.

9:59

Despair. This is something that Donald

10:01

Trump never wanted to see come to

10:04

light. And. I think they did that.

10:06

They got that job done today. They may

10:08

have risked some upheld issues long term and

10:10

doing so, and I don't think the prosecution

10:12

was trying to go that far. But.

10:14

They lost control of. Yeah. I'm I'm a

10:16

defense for me. Is he

10:18

says. That

10:21

he said that because I want to be

10:24

clear here that this is not some Stormy

10:26

has her story, but it's a question of

10:28

the prosecutors, their strategy and how they execute.

10:30

That that's really up at at issue now

10:32

no question about it Abby but she has

10:35

a story to tell and I think she

10:37

wanted to be heard and to the expense

10:39

of people would have believed that there was

10:41

no affair or no connection or interaction or

10:43

however you want to frame it's arm. She

10:45

had a lot to say about that and

10:47

I think deserve certain process that he had

10:50

to go through and stating her piece. Yes

10:52

you prep witnesses as a prosecutor yes you

10:54

give them that's not a scripts but you

10:56

certainly let them know the air is you

10:58

going go into you talk about if is.

11:00

Going to be any exhibits introduced to you

11:02

how that will happen. but I think she

11:05

wanted to tell the stories and I think

11:07

the devil is always in the details and

11:09

by given those details I think it gives

11:11

credibility. When you talk about sad pajamas, you

11:14

talk about boxers, you talk about Milan, your

11:16

you talk about other things it gives his

11:18

contacts it gives a prospectus. did she pretends

11:20

we say too much? Okay that open for

11:22

interpretation but I think the coordinate your of

11:25

this with trump denying denying it didn't happen

11:27

as look I'm not a liar I have

11:29

my reputation to protect to. And with

11:31

not dispute is that there was a payment to

11:33

be made switch not dispute is it was one

11:36

hundred thirty thousand dollars. What's not dispute is the

11:38

fact that she dealt with an interact with Michael

11:40

Cohen to get this deal bus and so I

11:42

think she was there to tell her story telling

11:44

loudly, tell it clearly and say whatever you think

11:47

about me. This is what I've heard. It

11:49

added in it's Athena has really bothers

11:51

her over these. Here is that she's

11:53

been a public figure associated with Donald

11:55

Trump these last six years, and it's

11:57

as it doesn't matter to his face.

12:00

The matter to a certain unpersuadable faction of

12:02

the American public that doesn't matter how he

12:04

comes to correct the record families and she

12:06

tells him that the wrong about whatever it

12:08

is that they believe about her on the

12:11

sax don't matter. They are impervious to fact

12:13

so I think this seems probably like an

12:15

opportunity to definitively stay. What's the story is

12:17

yeah and you know when you look at

12:19

eight there was a moment we thought see

12:22

what you said that the prep it seem

12:24

like necklace who is the Defense counsel for

12:26

Donald said she began her cross with the

12:28

idea of you were first. These moments

12:30

right? That's how they began. This is

12:32

not. It wasn't easing into the tension

12:34

with confrontational from the beginning and I

12:36

guess so he was very clear of

12:38

know what you're implying rehearsal as mean

12:40

I have not impressed but I have

12:42

been told what to say that that

12:44

would have any are talking about that

12:46

interaction between necklace and so on because

12:48

I will Now we haven't actually seen

12:50

real hostility between council as a. Witness

12:53

Yeah, this is as dramatic as

12:55

we see what you just said

12:57

or happen fifteen times where necklace

12:59

goes for broke and rather than

13:01

is your sort of pot you

13:03

you go up to the line

13:05

of making the point and then

13:07

go to the next one she

13:09

said and you're really lying about

13:11

the see We're continually asserted the

13:13

kind of final insinuation and basically

13:15

every time the innocent know false

13:17

and it arrested her rhythm very

13:19

discernably. Plus, there were a lot

13:21

of objections. so. You know, rhythm is

13:24

the sole cross examination she should be

13:26

going quip, she should be drawing a

13:28

yes to every answer and instead it

13:30

was much more sort of staggered and

13:32

I felt in effect of for that

13:34

reason he went for broke I say

13:36

in advisedly here's one interaction with as

13:38

is a necklace. It did seem to

13:41

breakthroughs at this. With with stormy

13:43

seas as you. Were lucky to get

13:45

a to get extort money from president

13:47

Trump right? Stormy says false necklace as

13:50

well. That's. What you did right?

13:52

For me says false but. It's.

13:55

Not falls that she got money

13:57

from president, trusted him, extorted or

13:59

eyesore. It's not right, but explain why

14:01

that's illegal. Well, it's a very significant

14:03

thing. If you want to talk about non-disclosure

14:06

agreements, which are lawful and legal, I have

14:08

a story to tell. You

14:10

want to pay me for my silence,

14:12

particularly appropriate. She's not extorting or stealing

14:14

or getting anything under false pretenses. He

14:16

has an absolute right not to engage

14:18

in that type of contractual arrangement. He

14:20

did engage in the contractual arrangement. The

14:22

critical issue here is what was the

14:24

purpose and intent? Was he attempting to

14:26

protect his family? Was he attempting to

14:29

deceive the electorate? And I think that's

14:31

the critical question, ultimately, Abby, Laura, that

14:33

the jury has to come to a

14:35

determination of. Did you falsify these business

14:37

records, ledgers, checks, invoices,

14:39

for the purpose of, with the

14:42

intent of concealing, the hiding

14:44

of this from the public so that what

14:47

we all know now very well wouldn't have

14:49

gotten out before the election and potentially affected

14:51

his electoral process? And Abby, this comes— And

14:53

she's always maintained that money was not

14:55

the objective, that maybe it was a bonus,

14:58

but that that was not why she signed

15:00

this agreement. In her telling— And

15:03

the relation was shifting over time. In her

15:05

telling, over the years, it's been pretty consistent.

15:07

She did not want the story out for

15:09

a number of personal reasons, and ultimately, she

15:11

came to fear for her safety after this

15:13

encounter in a parking lot in Las Vegas.

15:16

When someone threatens her, we don't know who,

15:18

and she has never said that she knows

15:21

who to tell her to be silent. Ultimately,

15:24

Donald Trump was the one with more to

15:26

lose, obviously, which is why he allegedly

15:28

signed this agreement and bought her silence.

15:31

But she's always maintained she was successful. She was

15:34

successful at a pretty early age in her field.

15:36

She was a director. She was an actress. She

15:39

had multiple homes to testify today, that she

15:41

was not looking for a payout, and she

15:43

was not negotiating this payout. She was not

15:45

haggling to get a better deal. So

15:48

have hands for who remembers the Trump presidency

15:50

chaos. But all they had was a chaos. All

15:54

that's happening, all of us lived through

15:56

in this way. The

16:00

bachelor of well I was a while

16:02

day with while testimony and even Nejad

16:04

said the some. It was unnecessary though.

16:06

The person we've been shown around here

16:09

did the prosecution go too far for

16:11

retired New York said she was in

16:13

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17:23

test way from some with annual

17:25

triggering questions about who's really in

17:27

control of the court during down

17:29

from has been Israel has one

17:31

more sign saying that some people

17:33

may have felt about Daniel testimony

17:35

send quote there was something that

17:37

probably would have been better left

17:39

unsaid. Senses. Are you arguing

17:41

the salacious he tells about the alleged

17:43

affair between Daniels and from my little

17:45

court rules. Even more to have the

17:48

entire case. Dismissed. Never judge

17:50

courses that most him but he did

17:52

sell prosecutors this. I think the

17:54

degree of detail we're going into here

17:56

is as a necessary. But. Judging

17:58

her son warned that. The may have

18:00

to embarrass Trump if his attorney of

18:03

can't control him then quote I understand

18:05

that your client is upset at this

18:07

point, but he is cursing audibly and

18:09

he is shaking his head visually and

18:12

that contemptuous. it has the potential to

18:14

intimidate the witness and a jury can

18:16

see that. Joining the now

18:18

Zad swords Grasso retired Queens County

18:20

Supreme Court judge says thank you

18:22

so much for being here but

18:24

you with the air Earlier today

18:26

in the court talk to me

18:28

about how you view judge were

18:30

sounds control of the courtroom. I

18:33

think it was perfect is a matter

18:35

of fact when we came back to

18:37

the lunch break. And Mr.

18:40

Blair's got up and request to

18:42

the a mistrial. The first thing

18:44

I saw the of is something

18:46

that the judge said rather promptly

18:48

in pushing back on their the

18:50

bit. He. Said. I

18:52

was a sword you with a bit objective more. The

18:55

judge was doing so response a

18:57

objections The judge was in control.

19:00

But. There's a balance. It's not

19:02

the judges' job to do

19:04

the defense attorneys job. So

19:07

I was father's thing. I had in

19:09

the back of my mind with a

19:11

lane that. And. Not objecting so

19:13

they might think they would have a

19:15

a stronger issue to try and go

19:17

for a mistrial or they just not.

19:19

So when the job that the way

19:21

they should do the job. but the

19:23

judge did his job. As far as

19:25

salacious miss, I don't know. I mean

19:27

I was. I was there, I saw

19:29

the whole thing. I would give it

19:31

like a P G Thirteen Ah A

19:33

Really, I did. There were certain things

19:35

that she was saying where I think

19:37

that they really should have a objected.

19:40

She was saying things like how she

19:42

was. Feeling I felt like I

19:44

was going to blackout jump up.

19:47

Object. You. Know, I don't

19:49

know that it would be appropriate

19:51

that she's testing testifying about our

19:53

feelings in this concepts, but they

19:55

just let her go. So.

19:57

several times the judge steps in

20:00

The defense was

20:03

unnaturally quiet and then they came in

20:05

looking for a mistrial. So I think

20:07

the judge is doing a great job

20:10

controlling his courtroom and

20:12

I think he made the right ruling. It's

20:14

at, you know, I have to tell you, I

20:17

was surprised particularly that there were not more

20:19

objections being raised. And by the way, we

20:21

know they're not allowed to have so-called speaking objections

20:23

where they're doing the television moment where they say

20:25

objection and they give you a paragraph as

20:27

to all the reasons why they want the

20:29

jury to hear it. But as

20:31

you can imagine, there are instances that you

20:33

want to make a point and risk the

20:35

slap on the wrist from a judge

20:38

about a statement you're trying to convey to the

20:40

jury. I was surprised about that. But

20:42

there was this moment, the

20:44

Dodge Blanche saying there was no

20:46

way to unring the bell because

20:48

there were some insinuation that this

20:50

was not consensual, although she was saying it was,

20:52

there were other statements that were being made. How

20:55

did you feel about that

20:57

line of testimony? Did that

21:00

raise sufficient cause that he could

21:02

say the bell had not been unrung? Well

21:04

it certainly, that's what I was referring

21:07

to when I said she was testifying

21:09

to what she was thinking. Right. It

21:13

certainly, in my opinion, would have

21:15

been a sustainable objection. But

21:18

for the defense counsel to sit back,

21:21

not object, and then

21:23

come back with the bell as it

21:25

can't be unrung and let's just do

21:27

a mistrial is an extraordinary

21:30

remedy. So no,

21:32

I don't think it rose to

21:34

that level. And the

21:36

judge made everything very clear and then it

21:38

seemed that they were more on the ball.

21:41

Well, there is a moment, too, where they did object. I

21:44

would say during Stormy Daniels'

21:46

testimony, they were getting 80, 90

21:48

percent of their objections

21:50

sustained. So they could never

21:53

turn around and say, well, Judge, we object

21:55

and you ignore us. Quite

21:57

the contrary was true. Well, there is a moment,

21:59

too, where they did object. I mean, the mistrial, as

22:01

you mentioned, an extraordinary remedy, oftentimes

22:04

not granted. But there is also

22:06

a moment at the conclusion of the prosecution's

22:08

case in chief, where the defense can say,

22:11

Your Honor, there has been no chance at

22:13

meeting their burden of proof. We

22:15

don't even need to put on a case here. If

22:17

that were the case right now, and the defense

22:19

is well within their rights at the close of

22:21

the presentation, the government's evidence to do this, if

22:24

all that you have heard so far is what the

22:26

case is, would you entertain a

22:28

motion? Well, we

22:30

got to get to the point where the

22:32

people closed their case in chief before I

22:34

could give a definitive response to that. I

22:37

will say, I think that

22:39

this is a very viable case. I

22:42

think Judge Marchand's initial ruling, I think

22:44

his decision was on February 15th, upholding

22:47

the grand jury indictment. I

22:50

think in the context of the way this case

22:52

was laid out, and in the context

22:54

of what the people promised they would do in

22:56

their opening statement, I think they're

22:58

putting on a very, very strong case.

23:01

I think the issue isn't going to

23:03

be the case being dismissed at the

23:05

close of the case. I think

23:07

they're a long way there to closing that

23:09

up, but the issue is going

23:11

to be, is this going to be beyond

23:13

a reasonable doubt for 12 jurors?

23:16

And I believe very strongly, Michael

23:18

Cohen is going to be the key. We've

23:21

had several witnesses that have

23:23

kind of brought us to the door

23:25

of thinking that, hey, this

23:27

may be a case that goes beyond

23:29

a reasonable doubt,

23:32

but it's going to be Michael Cohen that's going to

23:34

have to take us, take the jury through

23:36

that door and ultimately connect

23:39

the dots with defending

23:41

Trump. And if he

23:43

does that, I think the likelihood will

23:45

be high for a conviction.

23:48

If Michael Cohen falters, I

23:50

think the likelihood will be high for at least

23:52

a mistrial. So that's my view on where we

23:54

are right now. Judge George Grasso, thank

23:57

you so much for joining us. Pleasure

23:59

to be with you. Thank you for having me. I

24:01

want to bring back in our panel, because that's

24:03

a lot riding on Michael Cohen. No pressure. It

24:07

all rides on Michael Cohen. Yeah, but he's not wrong. Yeah,

24:10

I mean, he's the one that has to make

24:12

the connection between the payment, the business record. If

24:14

he's not making it, nobody else is. And if

24:17

they don't believe him, this case goes down. So

24:19

I mean, a lot rides on him. We're going

24:21

to see a lot tomorrow in terms of cross-examine,

24:25

further cross-examinations of Stormy Daniels. I

24:27

think they'll continue down this narrative

24:30

of that she was going after the money, that

24:32

she was concerned that she needed the money before

24:34

the election, right? That was some of the evidence

24:36

that's put on so far. I think you're going

24:38

to see more and more of that. The

24:41

idea that they cross-examined her and had her

24:43

say, yes, I'd like to see him put in

24:46

prison, and that they brought up

24:48

a tweet saying she would do a dance,

24:50

if that happened. I think that's all stuff

24:52

that's going to be good for the defense.

24:54

But again, this is not making the connection

24:57

to the business records at the end of the day.

24:59

Michael Cohen has to do that, and it's all riding

25:01

on his credibility. I mean, you have to imagine

25:03

that whatever happens with the rest of

25:05

Stormy Daniels' testimony, Michael Cohen's testimony cannot

25:08

go the way that this has gone with

25:10

the mistakes on both sides, from the prosecutors

25:12

and the defense. Both sides have to clean

25:14

up their house by the time they get

25:16

to that witness, because he

25:18

is, of all the characters, he

25:20

has so much baggage with Donald Trump. He

25:23

is such a colorful personality. It's like

25:25

Stormy Daniels times Ted. Yeah,

25:28

we'll see if he can control himself. I

25:30

mean, really, the issue is going to be,

25:32

they have what they had for Stormy Plus,

25:34

like you said, more tweets, more podcasts, more

25:36

TV appearances, more stuff. He's just going to

25:38

have to be ready to just, when they

25:40

put it up, you say, yep, I said

25:42

that, yep, I said that, yep, I said

25:44

that. But I'm telling you the

25:46

truth, and here's how you know. And the problem

25:49

is, they would have had Allen Weisselberg in

25:51

a different world, where he didn't perjure himself

25:53

and get sent back to prison. They can't

25:55

bring him back again at this trial, because

25:58

presumably he'll do the same thing again. lie

26:00

on the stand. So I don't know

26:02

if there's anyone other than Michael Cohen and

26:04

Alan Weisselberg who actually have that direct, yes,

26:07

I had a conversation with Trump about this

26:09

reimbursement scheme. We don't know.

26:11

I mean, unless there's some surprise out there, those are

26:13

the two guys, which means Michael Cohen is your only

26:15

available one. They have Weisselberg in some part,

26:17

though. That writing where Weisselberg lays it

26:20

all out. I think it's

26:22

the biggest document in the case. It's

26:24

obviously his doing. So at that point,

26:26

it's really got to be the defense

26:29

theory if they have one that somehow

26:31

Weisselberg and Cohen conspired, you know, without

26:33

Trump's knowledge. That's a heavy load

26:36

to lift. I want to point out to you, I

26:38

mean, we obviously don't have any audio or visual into

26:40

the courtroom. We're getting a lot of from the transcripts

26:42

and the judge pointing out, that's you,

26:44

of course, the judge pointing out that, you know,

26:46

the jury could visibly see if Trump was being

26:49

contemptuous. Let's just look at show this a little bit of

26:51

a graphic we have here to bring everyone inside the courtroom

26:54

where this is what it looks like. I mean, you know,

26:57

that minus all the chip paint. But if you

26:59

go inside, right, you've got Donald Trump, it's where

27:01

the circle is sitting there. You've got the witness

27:04

stand on the other side of the judge and

27:06

the jury box to the far right with those

27:08

18 jurors. And so you see it's kind of

27:10

a kitty corner thing from the witness stand to

27:13

the court reporter. But you've got this shot from

27:15

the jury box, Abby, to be able to visibly

27:17

see where Donald Trump is. And so the judge,

27:19

if the judge can hear him making certain statements

27:22

and, and swearing and drinking can see it all

27:24

and he can see it all. And you saw

27:26

that, Harry, that they could see it. So

27:28

there must have been ping ponging moments where

27:30

the jury was looking and I

27:32

know I would be looking to see what Trump is

27:34

saying. And if I'm Trump, I'm probably trying to make

27:36

my demonstrable body

27:39

language evident. That was

27:41

it exactly. And they and you had the

27:43

exchange at sidebar where Mertson says you got

27:45

to keep him from grimacing

27:47

and from swearing, etc. And to Jen's

27:49

point, when when Michael Cohen hits, and

27:51

will he be able to control himself

27:53

or will he be doing 360s with

27:55

his head? I see it a little

27:58

bit differently in terms of Michael. cohen

28:00

and here's what i think in the

28:02

minority here i don't think michael cohen

28:04

is the end all be all and

28:06

here's why i think the prosecution is

28:08

spent a significant amount of time corroborating

28:11

the things that michael cohen will say

28:13

starting out with pecker of course being

28:15

at the national inquire laying out the

28:17

catch-and-kill game going into david since speaking

28:19

about he's the one attorney of course

28:21

represented stormy daniel uh... karen mcdougall are

28:23

bringing in the account and bringing in

28:25

the comptroller to talk about the documents

28:28

the invoices the check that are i

28:30

think the prosecution is done all

28:32

they could to make michael cohen

28:34

as the relevant he

28:37

possibly could be yes he's a very

28:39

good important witness uh... he certainly adds

28:41

fabric in color it'll be a colorful

28:43

day it'll be stormy times and that

28:45

you mentioned no question but i don't

28:47

think it rise and falls on him

28:49

because they have done all they could

28:51

the product julie the thing that they have

28:53

not done it's shown that

28:55

donald trump died or

28:58

directed or new about his my

29:00

application that's the thing and you can do that

29:02

but but i think that is my answer

29:04

very briefly what happened to abby is

29:07

in cases you're allowed to draw reasonable

29:09

inferences from the facts and

29:11

therefore very few cases get tried

29:13

and is a smoking gun you

29:17

saw him do it so you have to

29:19

do is we always say as lawyers bring

29:21

your common sense into that courtroom let me

29:24

tell you a story ladies and gentlemen in

29:26

that story begins with pecker and it ends

29:28

with whoever the last witnesses and you don't

29:30

have to rely upon michael cohen you have

29:32

to rely upon your good judgment and you have

29:34

to rely upon what the evidence that we're going

29:36

to put a glass when they go to michael

29:39

cohen though they're gonna say they're gonna take to

29:41

fix testimony he wanted to be in the campaign

29:43

was always kicked out tried to get in the

29:45

room was always picked out he went road from

29:47

time to time never spoke on behalf campaign really

29:49

wanted to get in the white house rejected

29:52

from the white house this guy wanted to get

29:54

in the white house wanted to be within the

29:56

circle of power couldn't get it

29:59

so only one to do is be

30:01

a boss pleaser and get this thing done

30:03

in order to carry favor with that. And

30:05

that's why President Trump from his personal account

30:07

was writing checks to Michael Cohen. Okay. In

30:09

other words, I get your point. That's what

30:12

the bottom line is going to be. Come

30:14

on, guys. Use your common sense. The president

30:16

signing personal checks to him, but he's going

30:18

rogue. Stop. Right. I think you're all a

30:20

little bit right. I'm

30:22

just going to say it. You're making the defense

30:24

case. You're making the prosecution's case. We'll see

30:27

what the jury ends up saying about all

30:29

of this. Everybody stand by. The Hush Money

30:31

trial is moving along with the prosecution saying

30:34

that they have about two weeks of testimony

30:36

left. But down in Florida, Trump's classified documents

30:38

trial is indefinitely postponed.

30:40

We'll explain what just happened there. The

30:46

assignment with me, Audie Cornish. So

30:49

there have been arrests, suspensions, disciplinary

30:51

hearings. They're shutting down graduation events.

30:53

At this moment, the part of

30:55

the protests that are admirable are

30:57

young people calling attention to atrocities.

30:59

Michael Roth is the president of

31:02

Wesleyan University. I would like to

31:04

make a space for them to

31:06

do that as long as that

31:08

space doesn't prevent other people from

31:10

pursuing their education. Listen

31:13

to the assignment with me, Audie

31:15

Cornish, on your favorite podcast app.

31:21

President Donald Trump scoring a pretty

31:23

big win in Florida today. Judge

31:25

Eileen Cannon indefinitely suspending the Mar-a-Lago

31:27

classified documents case. Why? Well, the

31:30

judge is saying there are just too many issues

31:32

trying to classify evidence that still need to be

31:34

worked out. A trial was initially

31:36

supposed to start in late May. And while

31:38

no new date has been said, Judge Cannon

31:41

does think that the issues at hand should

31:43

be resolved by late July. Our

31:45

panel is back with us. Late

31:47

July, however, that doesn't mean that

31:49

the trial could start any time

31:52

soon. John, what is going

31:54

on here? One of two

31:56

things. Judge Cannon is just slow

31:58

walking this thing because she wants Trump

32:00

to get what he wants, which is to

32:02

delay this beyond the election, in which case

32:04

if he is reelected he will just shut

32:07

down the case and or pardon himself and

32:09

you know or both. Or she is literally

32:11

so incompetent that she cannot do her job

32:13

and decide these outstanding motions and move this

32:15

case through its paces to trial. She

32:17

is a new judge, a lot of people

32:20

talk about how inexperienced she is, classified documents

32:22

can be complicated, yada yada yada, and yet

32:24

there's just no excuse for the way this

32:27

is preceded. Some of these motion issues are

32:29

easy, are frivolous, there is no reason that

32:31

she can't be further along than she is and

32:33

just throwing up her hands and saying wow I

32:35

know I'm supposed to go to trial this month

32:37

but gee I haven't been able to get the

32:39

work done, we're gonna have to push it back,

32:41

it's ludicrous. Surely she's aware of the accusations that

32:43

this is perhaps partisanly

32:45

motivated, that doesn't even affect her

32:48

at all. I don't think it

32:50

does, I think she's probably looking at

32:52

the hand slap she got before and

32:54

worried about that. In addition the you

32:57

know the classified information procedures

32:59

act does get a little you

33:02

know messy sometimes right because the defense

33:04

is probably wanting to use classified information

33:06

but the government's saying no way you

33:08

can't use that in court. So all

33:10

that needs to get argued before the

33:12

judge, it's all done behind closed doors

33:15

and because you know it's the defense

33:17

can play that delay game by trying

33:19

to push as much confidential information or

33:22

classified information I should say but before

33:24

the court saying look we need to use it

33:27

and defense and the prosecution say no you don't

33:29

and they're gonna fight over. That shouldn't stop Harry

33:31

being able to at least set a trial date and

33:33

then work towards the goal of by this date we've

33:35

got to resolve this. No kidding, one

33:38

month messy, not six months messy, not

33:40

indefinite mothball messy and really it's not

33:42

very messy here at all because remember

33:44

there's nothing he's charged with this that

33:47

anything to do with the content of

33:49

the paper it's just the way it

33:51

was marked. So they could try to

33:54

exert pressure on a couple documents but

33:56

this is straightforward and really ludicrous is

33:58

not too strong. a word. To move

34:02

it back a month or two, but to

34:04

literally take it off calendar, and this by

34:06

the way is a cut and drive, very

34:09

strong case, it's unconscionable. I agree.

34:11

I think the case is a pretty simple case. And

34:14

I think the defense is probably pushing us

34:16

along and exploiting the fact that this judge

34:18

is more than willing to take her time

34:20

to rule on these motions.

34:22

And I think that's probably what's happening. Let's

34:25

just remind folks, she's a Trump appointee.

34:27

It's not even just that she

34:30

is a new judge. There

34:32

were also questions when she was being

34:34

confirmed about her qualifications for the judgeship

34:36

to begin with. So she's got all

34:38

of this kind of in

34:41

the background, and Jack Smith

34:43

made a choice in this case

34:45

to take it down to the Southern District

34:47

of Florida. And there was a

34:49

possibility always that this could have ended up in

34:51

her lap, and it has. And Donald Trump, it

34:54

just looks like, has gotten really, really lucky here.

34:56

Yeah, you know, Abby, certainly we could

34:58

accept the fact that she's a new

35:00

judge, etc. People are newer things, that's

35:02

fine. But you have great people around

35:04

you. I have not seen the, look,

35:07

federal staff, these judges have phenomenal staff,

35:09

people who are brilliant who could assist

35:11

you. So I don't buy the argument

35:13

that she's fumbling because she's inexperienced. It

35:16

seems to me she's clearly has an

35:18

agenda here, right? I mean, and

35:21

based upon the agenda, I

35:23

think she's slow rolling the case. Yes, there

35:26

are significant issues. There are motions that need

35:28

to be delved through. Judges delve through motions

35:30

in all kinds of cases every day and

35:32

twice on Sunday. What makes this different? Classified

35:34

documents. Okay. But the fact that she's doing

35:36

it, it seems to me to be pretty

35:38

obvious that it's, the thumb is on

35:40

the scale for Mr. Trump. Olivia, a real

35:43

quick, how does this demonstrate that they're more afraid

35:45

of this case than they are the others? Obviously,

35:47

it should be a Florida jury that I thought

35:49

Trump was saying that would be better for him

35:52

than say what he thinks of the Manhattan bias

35:54

jury. I mean, the allegations in this case are

35:56

very serious, not to say that they're not in

35:58

other cases. We have photographic

36:00

evidence that was turned up in these

36:03

raids, right, of how he was storing these documents.

36:05

And it goes against, frankly, as a political issue,

36:07

goes against how he talks about himself on foreign

36:10

policy, how he talks about himself as a world

36:12

leader. And the further

36:14

that we get into this, the further that

36:16

she drags this out, the nominating conventions are

36:18

this summer, the closer that

36:20

it gets to him being officially the nominee,

36:23

potentially the president again. I

36:25

think that he's going to be talking more and more

36:27

than he even is now about a witch hunt. And

36:31

it seems like she's inclined to help him. If this

36:33

case were brought in Washington, DC, on

36:35

a rocket docket like Washington, DC has,

36:37

and with judges who have handled classified

36:40

information cases time and time again, we'd

36:42

be the trial by now. Probably

36:45

even before anything in Manhattan, right? It wouldn't

36:47

have been the audacity about them bragged. They

36:49

said, going first. Thank you, everyone.

36:51

So important to hear all your perspectives. Up

36:53

next, a message from President Biden to

36:55

the Jewish community. I

36:58

see your fear. You're hurt and your pain. Let

37:02

me reassure you, as

37:04

your president, you're not alone. You

37:07

belong. You

37:09

always have and you always will. And

37:12

he invoked a giant in the fight

37:15

against hate and anti-Semitism, Ali Wiesel. His

37:17

son will join us next. President

37:24

Biden taking the podium at the

37:26

Capitol today with a stark warning

37:28

for America, saying there's a, quote,

37:31

ferocious surge in anti-Semitism across the

37:33

country, and Americans need to come

37:35

together to fight it. Listen. This

37:39

ancient hatred of Jews didn't begin with the

37:41

Holocaust. It didn't end with

37:43

the Holocaust either. That hatred was

37:45

brought to life on October 7th of 2023. On

37:50

a sacred Jewish holiday, the

37:52

terrorist group Hamas this

37:56

day of the Jewish people sensed

37:58

the Holocaust. That's why I'm

38:01

calling on all Americans to

38:03

stand united against anti-Semitism and hate

38:06

in all its forms. My

38:08

dear friend who became a friend the late

38:11

Ellie Wisell said quote, one

38:13

person of integrity can make

38:15

a difference. We have to remember

38:18

that now more than ever. Ellie

38:22

and Marion Wisell's son and chairman

38:24

of the Ellie Wisell Foundation, Alicia

38:27

Wisell joins us now. President Biden

38:29

evoking your father there, but

38:32

also speaking at a really tense moment

38:34

both in the war but also

38:36

here in this country. I've been

38:38

saying this for a while now because it seems

38:40

to me the country

38:42

kind of needs somebody to help it understand

38:45

this moment. Is this what you wanted

38:47

to hear from him? This

38:49

was an incredible speech by President Biden.

38:52

I was actually at the very first Days of

38:54

Remembrance speech ever in 1979. I

38:56

sat in President Carter's lap

38:59

as my father spoke to the audience. That

39:01

is actually the moment that my father met

39:04

President Biden. President Biden sent him a

39:06

note afterwards and they began a friendship. Today's

39:09

speech was phenomenal. It was everything

39:12

that he needed to cover I

39:15

think for the Jewish people in this country to

39:17

hear. He talked about family being

39:19

the place where Holocaust education needs to happen

39:21

and anti-Semitism needs to be fought. He talked

39:23

about how his own father brought them to

39:25

Dachau, spoke about it at the dinner table.

39:28

That was a clear part of his message.

39:30

He spoke about 10-7, how

39:32

what happened on October 7th is very

39:34

much modern anti-Semitism, that that's what drove

39:36

these people to go in and murder

39:39

1,200 innocent people,

39:42

do the terrible desecrations that

39:44

they did to babies, teenagers,

39:46

sexual violence, the unbelievable

39:48

deeds. Then he called that

39:50

anti-Semitism on campus and he did it

39:52

in a very very direct and crisp

39:54

way. He said calls for the elimination

39:56

of Israel are genocide and effectively

39:59

are the worst. anti-Semitism you can

40:01

be spotting. That's really, I think,

40:03

what the country needs to hear. It's very

40:05

centering, very important, very relieved the president did

40:07

this today. I want to play actually the

40:09

moment that he does address the protests that

40:11

we've been seeing on college campuses today. Listen.

40:16

We've seen a ferocious surge of

40:18

anti-Semitism in America and around the

40:21

world. On college campuses, Jewish

40:24

students blocked, harassed,

40:26

attacked, or walked into class. Anti-Semitism,

40:32

anti-Semitic posters, slogans,

40:36

calling for the annihilation of Israel, the

40:39

world's only Jewish state. I

40:42

mean, the ADL is reporting that there is

40:44

a 140 percent increase in anti-Semitic incidents just

40:48

from 2022 to 2023, increasing

40:50

after October 7th when you see these

40:52

figures and then you hear the president

40:54

of the United States having to

40:56

even make a speech like this in the year 2024

40:59

that strikes such a chord. It

41:02

does. And thank God he's doing it. And

41:05

thank God he's doing it from within the

41:07

Democratic Party because there are irresponsible legislators within

41:09

the more extreme fringes of the Democratic Party who

41:12

are 100 percent part of the problem. It's

41:15

interesting, you know, J Street, which is

41:17

about as left as you get in

41:19

the Jewish world, they have decided not

41:21

to endorse Jamal Bowman because he uses

41:23

words that are so charged, so loaded,

41:25

they can only be seen as anti-Semitic

41:27

in nature. You

41:29

know, Jamal Bowman goes and he supports the

41:31

protesters, you know, who are calling for the

41:33

elimination of the state of Israel and says, oh,

41:35

yeah, this is all peaceful. I don't see anything

41:38

peaceful as a Jewish person when I see banners

41:40

and slogans and a call to globalize the Antifa'ra.

41:42

For those of us who remember what the Antifa'ra

41:44

was in 2000 and later in

41:47

the later 2000s, these were bloody murderous attacks,

41:49

buses being blown up, the Sbarro pizza bombing.

41:51

So there's a lot of irresponsible behavior that's

41:53

coming from some of the further fringes of

41:56

President Biden's party, which is why it's so

41:58

important for him to make it. a

42:00

strong message. At the same time, there

42:02

is a war going on and Israel

42:04

is a close ally of

42:07

the United States. Every time

42:09

President Biden has tough words for

42:11

Benjamin Netanyahu, there are definitely people on

42:14

the right who say, oh,

42:16

he's giving in to the far left, he's

42:19

anti-Semitic. Is that unfair

42:21

in your mind? Is there room for President Biden

42:23

to exert pressure on

42:26

an ally in this circumstance and

42:28

still be a strong ally to

42:30

the Jewish people? Of course. And

42:33

President Biden has every right

42:35

to tell Prime Minister Netanyahu

42:37

what he thinks, what

42:39

his views are. Ultimately, it's going

42:42

to be Israel's responsibility to decide how to

42:44

execute. When you come to

42:46

words and discussions between friends, and I do

42:48

believe that the friendship between Israel and the

42:50

United States is as profound a diplomatic friendship

42:53

as can exist. Actions

42:55

are what matter though. And some of the

42:57

reports when we hear that aid may get

42:59

conditioned, that certain weapons

43:01

supplies might be stopped. That's when I think

43:03

the advisors around President Biden should just take

43:06

a moment and think a little bit about

43:08

history because there is precedent for some of

43:10

this. My father at that 1979 speech made

43:14

a very, very central point about bombing

43:16

the tracks in Auschwitz. Roosevelt's

43:18

advisors did not agree that the bombing

43:21

of tracks in Auschwitz was a military

43:23

priority. Well, right now, I will tell

43:25

you, as someone with family

43:27

in Israel, as someone who's concerned about

43:29

the civilians there, the Hamas terror tunnels

43:31

that still exist in Rafah represent a

43:33

threat in the same way that those

43:35

tracks into Auschwitz represented a threat to

43:37

European Jewry. And they need to be

43:40

dismantled. That Hamas terror infrastructure needs to

43:42

be taken apart. So I very much

43:44

hope that President Biden's advisors are thinking

43:46

about that as they make their own

43:48

decisions about how to proceed. A very

43:50

powerful conversation and insight that you've given us today.

43:52

And I do think it's so important that you hear

43:54

it heard it tonight as well. Thank you. Thank

43:57

you. Good to see you. Alicia Wiesel, everyone.

43:59

Thank you. so much. And you know

44:01

what? We're going to hear more from President

44:03

Biden tomorrow because Erin Burnett is sitting down

44:06

with the president for an exclusive interview in

44:08

Wisconsin. It's going to air tomorrow night right

44:10

here on CNN at 7 p.m. Eastern. Thank

44:12

you so much for watching. Our coverage continues

44:15

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