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When it comes to crime and migration, all sorts of politicians have justified mass detention and incarceration in the name of confronting a dangerous crisis. But what's real and what's fear mongering, and how can reformers counter the rhetoric to advance alternatives? In this episode, Laura Flanders and co-host Amir Khafagy speak with Silky Shah, Executive Director of Detention Watch Network, about her new book is “UNBUILD WALLS: Why Immigrant Justice Needs Abolition”, and Aron Thorn, Senior Attorney with the Texas Civil Rights Project’s Beyond Borders Program about the road ahead. Texas Governor Greg Abbott's Operation Lone Star program and the state-based deportation process proposed in his state's Senate Bill SB4 could set the tone for the country. Activists can do their best to call out abuses, but what is really needed is an entirely new approach. What difference would an abolitionist lens make?

“I find it very troubling that we have economies that are solely dependent on the exploitation of immigrant labor. This country depends on the exploitation of immigrant labor, yet you're seeing all these draconian measures, especially in places like Texas and now New York . . .” - Amir Khafagy

“There's been some minor reforms here and there . . . I don't want to dismiss that, but none of it's been at the scale that it needs to be. There needs to be a real investment that doesn't just let the Republicans dictate the debate . . .” - Silky Shah

“It's fascinating to see my colleagues in New York grappling with some of the same really difficult questions that border Texans have grappled with for a really long time. What does it look like to give meaningful support to folks who are coming here and seeking a better life?” - Aron Thorn

Guests:

• Amir Khafagy (Co-host): Journalist, Report for America Member, Documented

• Silky Shah: Director, Detention Watch Network; Author, Unbuild Walls

• Aron Thorn: Senior Attorney, Texas Civil Rights Project (TCRP), Beyond Borders Program

Full Episode Notes are located HERE.  They include related episodes, articles, and more.

Music In the Middle:  RUMTUM remix of “Mirage” by Captain Planet courtesy of Bastard Jazz Records..  "Steppin" and "The Gall" by Podington Bear.

Laura Flanders and Friends Crew:  Laura Flanders, Sabrina Artel, David Neuman, Nat Needham, Rory O'Conner, Janet Hernandez, Sarah Miller, Jeannie Hopper, Nady Pina, and Jordan Flaherty

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