0:01

Eh , not what your country can

0:03

do for you and what you

0:05

can do for your country. You are one

0:10

word . I

0:12

have a dream of one day. This

0:14

nation will

0:25

welcome to lead different,

0:28

the podcast about leadership. And

0:30

we're on our second episode of

0:33

what we can learn from the

0:35

military, the military's role in developing leaders

0:37

or building leaders. And uh

0:40

, on this particular episode we're going to

0:42

start talking about who are the military

0:44

leaders you look up to admire for

0:46

their example of leadership. And one of

0:48

the reasons we're going to do that is we think there's some great

0:50

lessons to be learned. And we already

0:52

off Mike started discussing

0:54

a number of people, but I'm going to get Rick

0:56

in here because he , he was smiling before

0:58

saying, I've got some leaders, military leaders

1:00

I admire and I'm going to surprise you. And

1:03

so he did it going to have some m and ms for me

1:05

or he's going to have a name. I would never, I would never

1:07

guess. So. Uh, let's get into it and

1:09

I hope we hope you've listened to episode one. It

1:11

, I loved it. And I, and this

1:13

one I think is gonna be really encouraging and exciting

1:16

for you.

1:16

Well, awesome . I think the first guy when I, when I

1:18

was thinking about this question , um,

1:21

and it kind of surprised me that I thought about too was, you

1:23

know, just the first president, George

1:26

Washington. I think if you just look at , um,

1:29

you know him in battle, if you look the histories of his

1:31

battles, that was incredible. But I think the thing

1:33

that I admired the most was

1:36

he led with humility. And

1:39

if you've ever been to Philadelphia and

1:41

been to constitution hall and seeing like where all

1:43

the, the original capitol was, you know, you go

1:45

on the tour, one of the things that they said that I'll never forget

1:48

is that's where the first transition of power

1:50

went were Washington gave

1:52

up power and they said that was

1:54

really the first time in history that,

1:57

you know, power was really voluntarily given up

1:59

without somebody dying, fighting. And

2:01

if you been to Washington D C and

2:03

you've been to the Capitol building, you know,

2:05

like he was supposed to be in turn there. He's supposed to be there

2:07

forever. They really worshiped him.

2:10

And if you look at the top of the Rotunda, you

2:12

know, he's actually up there almost like a god and

2:14

they, and you know, he could have been called a

2:16

king. And I, and I know that

2:19

when it was time to do that transition, he

2:22

could have said, you know what , I think I want to stay.

2:24

And nobody would've said anything. Right . You

2:26

know, the whole thing could have been blown up right there. So

2:28

I think he, he was the first one and

2:31

I think the second one was Abraham

2:34

Lincoln. I was stationed on the USS Lincoln. So

2:36

I got to learn in

2:38

the military. So, so, so that made

2:40

me, so that made me , um, let's

2:43

think about, you know, him having to keep the

2:45

country together through,

2:47

you know, the civil war, like he had the

2:49

vision in , um,

2:52

you know, the foresight and just the endurance

2:54

, uh , the perseverance to get through that

2:56

because again, that's another spot where our country almost

2:59

went away. You know, he had to see,

3:01

he had to tough job of taking, we were talking

3:03

about when a rust , his favorite leaders, I'll let him talk

3:05

about him, but just a general as he had hired general's

3:07

fire generals and he had to, you

3:10

know, keep the people together. And

3:12

to me it's just really sad that, you know, he didn't live

3:14

too long after the civil war to actually see

3:16

what he had done. You know,

3:18

you know , you know I'm going to jump in. You can, you can,

3:21

you can take my general and talk by him . You'll talk about I'm

3:23

better than me. The thing I want to come back

3:25

to though is cause we're, we're talking to this thing about,

3:27

you know, leaders we admire, but we can also learn lessons.

3:29

And one of the lessons I'm getting in my heart and

3:32

head hearing you talk is

3:34

that a leader has to have the willingness to give up power. That

3:37

if you're really going to be an effective leader,

3:40

then you have to know when people

3:42

are going overboard being focused on you

3:45

, uh , uh, lifting

3:47

you up to celebrity or idol status.

3:49

And what you're talking about is the thing that made Washington

3:51

special, that made this country to one

3:53

degree. What it is today is a guy

3:56

who probably learned that whole, I'm

3:58

smaller than that, that the cause

4:00

is bigger than the individual. The guy

4:02

had the capacity after having been in the military

4:04

and he was first in the British military before

4:07

he became the leader of our military in America.

4:09

He said, okay, I got to walk away and

4:11

something, you know, I've, I've , I'm a little, I'm,

4:14

I'm familiar with him. He's , he's never been my favorite, cause

4:16

he's a little too far away from me. I can't

4:18

read . He's a little, his detachment makes

4:21

it difficult to even grasp him today.

4:24

But I think that detachment is

4:26

that part of him that says, I

4:28

don't want you overly focused on me. I'm

4:30

not the big deal. And I

4:32

listened to that. And I go, as leaders, you

4:35

know, secular and even

4:37

spiritual leaders, we have to have the capacity

4:39

to say, you know what, this is

4:41

enough. I don't need to have more. And so

4:43

that's, that's brilliant. And with Lincoln,

4:46

you, you, you surprise me, d

4:49

or You or you, cause I forgot he was in the military.

4:52

Are you saying that part of

4:55

what made him able to hold the country together

4:57

was some of that, that uh,

4:59

that experience of knowing how to make

5:01

yourself less or,

5:03

well, I think, I think that's it, but also to just,

5:05

I think , um, you know, being the

5:07

president of you , you know, you really are over your

5:10

overall charge of the military. I think just

5:12

his leadership ability to hold together,

5:15

cause you know, it , it , it just had to have been, it

5:18

had to have been a crazy,

5:21

just, you know, half of the country

5:23

saying we're going to be different. Yeah

5:25

. And the, and, and, and the majority of the generals

5:27

that came out of west point went with the south.

5:31

Yeah. Louis Lee Lee came.

5:33

Yeah . Yeah. And they had a ton . They got

5:35

the majority. And here, here's what

5:37

you'd say about Lincoln. Here's what I think about it . Right. So

5:40

[inaudible] s grant, who was, you alluded to then

5:42

, that's my boy right there. You , you, you s

5:44

you unconditional surrender grant. Um,

5:46

so this was grant , it was, he , he wants some of the first

5:49

initial battle cause they were getting their tail

5:51

kicked by the confederacy, like up

5:53

and down that all around. And then

5:55

the west, he started to win some

5:57

battles and started to rise in prominence.

6:00

And uh , and there was , there were , there , there was a whisper

6:02

campaign against him out of competition.

6:05

Uh, but uh, somebody went to Lincoln

6:07

and said, hey, you don't, you know, he drinks,

6:09

don't, you know, he's drunk half the time. He doesn't even hardly come

6:11

out of his tent. And now these things weren't substantiated,

6:13

but they were just unknown , you know, running them down.

6:16

And Lincoln, this is an example, you're talking about Lincoln

6:18

Lincoln turn to the people and he said, well, you

6:21

see drinks than whatever

6:23

he's drinking. I want to get all my other generals because he

6:25

wins battles. I mean, that's Rankin

6:28

going, I'm not going to be controlled by the slander,

6:30

by the, by the, by the, by the competition

6:33

and , and I'm going to manage this whole thing. He

6:35

also managed it well because he gave

6:37

politicians who didn't know anything

6:39

about leading general ships

6:42

in order to make sure their states

6:45

came with the union. So I think that's

6:47

a great choice. Do you have one more or are those your top

6:49

two?

6:50

Well, I think the , uh , the other one , um , was

6:52

I think, you know , General Colin Powell, you

6:54

know, he was more when I was growing up seeing

6:57

him. And I think just being able to

6:59

be, you know, the joint chiefs and,

7:01

you know , he was also , um, I

7:03

think he was , um, you know,

7:05

there was a national security advisor while he was

7:08

still enlisted. Yeah . Um, which

7:10

I didn't even know you could do. He was still enlisted. He still

7:12

general , I think they made an exception. Yeah. And you know, and then

7:14

secretary of state and you know, and

7:17

probably could have been president .

7:19

Oh yeah . Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There

7:21

you go again. In the military, you looked at his family,

7:25

knew his wife was going to give it the know and

7:27

said, I can submit myself

7:30

to something greater. And we all know

7:32

that as married men , you can sit them all and not

7:34

every married man can do that, but I can

7:36

submit myself to something greater. I'm seeing , I'm filling

7:39

a theme. And Lee , you look like you're biting at the

7:41

bit. What do you got for us?

7:42

Well , uh, you know, I was thinking about , um,

7:45

uh, to people , uh, in terms of,

7:47

of leaders. Um, one

7:49

was , um, my, my

7:51

dad , uh , Gosh, sorry.

7:54

No, no, no , it's great. Um, so

7:56

my dad , uh , came from a small town

7:59

in South Texas and , uh, like

8:01

so many people did approaching world

8:03

war two . They were country

8:05

people. And , um , he

8:07

, he was one of , uh, you

8:09

know, four , uh, brothers. His

8:12

Dad died when they were all young. His mom

8:14

was a widow. She was a schoolteacher and

8:16

had to raise these four boys. All

8:18

four of them went into the military really?

8:21

And , uh, um, you know, the

8:23

oldest brother didn't come back, but

8:26

the other, the three did. My Dad did.

8:29

Um , but what I appreciate about him

8:31

was that , uh, he,

8:34

he became , uh , a

8:36

, a subject matter expert. He was

8:38

, uh , he became a chief petty officer very quickly

8:41

because he was on the cutting edge of

8:43

electronics, which was new and

8:45

World War II. And he ended up running

8:47

a shop in , uh, Pearl

8:50

Harbor where all the planes would come in, shot

8:52

up. [inaudible] and his crew in a very

8:55

amount of time would go through the plains

8:57

, fix all their radios, their electronics, all

8:59

their gear, and send them back out

9:01

, uh, to battle as a very young

9:04

, uh , leader . So he, he

9:06

rose through the ranks by

9:08

being excellent at what he did

9:11

, uh , willing to do the hard work.

9:14

Uh, he, he, he wasn't a guy that

9:16

glorified in being a leader, but he became

9:19

the leader of that , uh, that whole

9:21

crew. So , um, you know, and

9:23

, uh, of course I didn't , uh,

9:25

just follow in, go in the navy

9:28

because of him.

9:30

I also had other , uh , military relatives,

9:33

but, you know, the

9:35

man, the kind of man that he was

9:37

, uh , caused me to know that if I went in the military,

9:40

I would get shaped as well.

9:41

Tell me, tell us, tell us your dad's name. Uh

9:44

, Jim Delone . Wow.

9:46

That is so inspiring because, you know, it's

9:48

an interesting thing. I've

9:51

watched band of brothers and I think it's

9:53

probably, I mean I'm , you know, I

9:55

wasn't there so I can't say, but from

9:57

a World War II point of view , uh,

10:00

I don't think I've ever been as moved

10:03

by a , a

10:05

, the imagery , uh , in the storytelling

10:07

in that because what they do at the end of each

10:10

episode , uh , I think it's eight.

10:12

They ha they have the original guys

10:15

come on and talk. And

10:17

it's humbling because you sit there

10:19

even today and you look at our country and you're like, seriously,

10:22

we're doing this. When these guys did

10:25

that and you just feel really

10:27

kind of embarrassed that, you know, you

10:29

just hoping those guys that are still alive,

10:31

I think there's some, they're still alive, aren't just shaking

10:33

their head the whole time. But when I watched

10:35

that, the thing that impacted me and when I hear you talk

10:38

about your dad, Jim , Jim

10:40

, I am so

10:42

happy you brought him up because when

10:44

I was watching the movie, I was blown away by these small

10:47

towns. These guys came from and

10:49

the fierceness was, which they defeated the country.

10:51

And even today they say that the large percentage

10:53

of people who go into the military are from our small

10:55

towns. Right . And sometimes

10:57

we don't appreciate the fact that there's a legacy

11:00

there that is , is equally as

11:02

important as a Harvard, Stanford

11:04

or pick your school a legacy

11:07

that is , has made this country what it is today.

11:09

And sometimes I think that we can forget that.

11:11

So I think it's important to tell the story and it's also inspiring

11:14

when you can, when you can think about your dad that way. With my

11:16

dad who was in the army, I always

11:18

saw the army as a negative.

11:20

Not the, not , not the , I'm sorry,

11:22

not the army, but the experience he had in the army is

11:25

a negative cause he was playing, he was just

11:27

about to make it in the Negro Baseball League and

11:29

he'd been told to be set already in second baseman

11:32

and he got drafted and went in the

11:34

army and never play baseball again. So

11:36

I always associated that with,

11:39

you know, a, a

11:41

negative. He never did. He never said anything

11:43

like that. He didn't meant they didn't talk about that that

11:45

much. He was stationed in Germany and then he fought

11:47

during the Korean War, but all his

11:49

brothers were there. Right. And

11:51

there are things that five of them and I've a picture of all

11:54

of them. And I've thought about that a

11:56

lot lately cause I go, you know, that's

11:58

what they were doing for the country. And

12:00

I look around and I go, we almost

12:02

need more history like that to

12:04

realize again, these people

12:07

like your dad put their life on

12:09

the line, making sure that we

12:11

had people being defended and in Pearl

12:13

Harbor, I mean just being in Pearl Harbor, I'm just, wow,

12:15

that's incredible. He's a good one. He's

12:18

Kinda top of the list cause it's personal. So we're making sure

12:20

we're making him number one right now. We're sorry

12:22

about General Patton and Ulysses s grant.

12:25

They're going to get bumped down a little bit. But , uh , you got

12:27

to know, enforced.

12:28

Uh , I would s one of the things I was thinking about

12:30

as we were talking is that , um,

12:33

even within military leadership, you need

12:35

different kinds of, of leaders.

12:38

And you know, some, some leaders

12:40

, uh, when we were off Mike, we were talking

12:42

about how , uh, patent

12:44

was such a powerful tactical

12:46

, uh, leader , uh, in,

12:49

in battle, whereas , uh , Eisenhower

12:52

was , uh , brilliant in

12:54

his ability to orchestrate all

12:56

the political and logistical , uh,

12:58

forces , uh , that were necessary

13:01

to bring countries together and still get the job

13:03

done. So there's different kinds

13:05

of leaders. And , uh, one,

13:08

a very unique , uh , leader who

13:10

, um, you know, was inspiring

13:13

to me was , uh , Admiral Hyman

13:15

g ric over . So Aberdeen

13:17

, but I don't know any, so atmo hyphen g Rickover

13:20

was the father of the

13:22

nuclear submarine. Okay . And

13:25

he started the whole nuclear navy and

13:27

a ever recover. Uh,

13:29

I got to interview with him personally

13:32

because he made

13:34

a , a commitment to the country

13:37

that he would personally interview

13:39

any officer that would ever be

13:41

in charge of running a nuclear power plant.

13:44

Kidding . And he told that to Congress and he

13:46

proceeded for the next 45

13:48

years to personally interview

13:51

every officer because he,

13:53

he wanted Congress to know,

13:56

because realize when he

13:58

introduced nuclear power and nuclear

14:00

submarines in the early fifties, this was so

14:02

close to World War II, people were thinking

14:05

of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They were thinking

14:07

of nuclear, anything nuclear as

14:09

being something that was going to be so dangerous

14:12

or that, you know, they

14:14

could have a melt down in there . The in San

14:16

Diego where the ship was or the submarine

14:18

was. And so , uh , he was

14:21

an engineer and

14:23

he instilled a culture

14:25

of excellence, which , uh, was

14:28

, um, you know,

14:30

almost too much , uh,

14:32

in terms of what he expected

14:34

out of his officers and his enlisted men

14:36

who became nuclear or

14:39

nuclear trained. And so he, he

14:41

continued to run that program

14:43

, uh, for decades beyond

14:46

when most people are retired because

14:48

he had such a passion and,

14:51

you know, he was, he was

14:53

that , uh , good at organizing

14:56

and creating a, a culture of excellence,

14:58

excellence and understanding the engineering

15:00

, um, uh, things

15:02

that it took , uh , right down to

15:05

every little bolt and screw

15:07

had a pedigree for going into the

15:09

nuclear power plant. It

15:11

, each bolt had its own, what

15:14

you could track, you know, by number

15:17

because it had to have the highest quality

15:19

of, of material so that

15:21

it sort of wouldn't melt or corrode

15:24

or break or whatever. Those kinds

15:26

of standards were, were unique that he

15:28

all introduced. So he's a very different

15:30

kind of , of leader. He was an engineer.

15:32

He was someone that built a program. He

15:35

was , uh , he wasn't an inspirational

15:37

guy. Uh, he sounds like

15:40

the inspired you. Well, he's inspiring

15:42

me right now. Yeah, he did.

15:44

He did . Can I just, I w so , so

15:46

there's, man,

15:48

you know, I think we're just going to have to make this

15:51

a consistent podcast because

15:53

there's just no way that I

15:55

can get all my questions answered. And

15:57

so I appreciate you guys taking the time

15:59

to come in. We'll just figure it out. We'll, we'll figure

16:01

it out and maybe we'll get a couple of other our friends in here,

16:03

but I want

16:05

to say two things. I'll say the

16:07

f the second thing first. So I don't forget,

16:10

I want to take in our time we have together, I

16:12

want to take a little bit of time and just, you

16:14

know, we've all been part of different organizations

16:16

together and, and nonprofit

16:19

, uh, organizations

16:22

and all that. And maybe we'll talk,

16:24

talk a little bit about, you know, how,

16:27

based on what we've seen, how

16:30

those organizations can work together better

16:33

as leaders. Maybe we can talk about that without mentioning any

16:35

names. Organizations just say, hey, here's some things

16:38

that maybe we can think about that would make

16:40

us work together better. But I went , I wanna I wanna I wanna

16:42

I want to show you how all this comes together. So , um,

16:45

one of my best friends, and you guys know him

16:47

, uh , Scott colden's married to Margo

16:49

Colvin , but Margot's made name is Stevenson and

16:53

th who are the guys who run the news ?

16:54

Clear slabs . What's the rank? Well,

16:56

it, the, by the time you were a captain

16:58

of a nuclear sub, usually a commander. Okay

17:01

. Okay .

17:01

So , um , her

17:03

dad hap Stevenson was

17:06

a, you know, like a captain of a nuclear

17:08

sub, right.

17:09

So captain, you can be a captain

17:11

of a tiny ship. [inaudible]

17:14

the rank of captain he was at , so

17:17

he might've had the rank of captain as

17:19

well. He might have been a large nuclear

17:22

ballistic trident submarine. He

17:24

might've had it . He might've been a pretty

17:26

after legend . And he's pretty much a legend here. I

17:28

was on a plane coming

17:30

from a someplace

17:33

in Asia. It could have been Thailand. I can't remember.

17:35

I was coming from, got on the plane and I

17:37

got a, I got lucky. I

17:39

got bumped up to a business class and

17:42

, uh, I was happy because I could sleep

17:44

better. And I was like, you know, cause I, back

17:47

then I was flying all the times. I'd always miles and you,

17:49

I was like always trying to finagle something

17:51

cause you just dying . And I sat down

17:53

on my seat next to guy and we started talking. And

17:56

, uh, so he , he asked me what

17:58

I, what I did and I gave him the two or three different

18:00

things that I do. And then , uh, and

18:02

then I said, what do you do? He goes, Oh, I , uh, I build

18:05

nuclear subs. I go, why? He

18:08

goes, yeah, my, my company builds nuclear subs.

18:11

I go , you gotta be kidding me. And

18:13

I said, I actually know a guy who captain a nuclear

18:15

sub. And he goes, who's like, oh, he

18:17

gonna have Stevenson . He goes, oh, I know him. That

18:19

guys , or at least I know of him, he's a legend. I

18:22

saw Braveheart when it opened. That's

18:24

an old classic with Hap and

18:26

Scott. And I'll

18:28

tell ya, he , uh , he

18:31

is, and he lives in a, y probably shouldn't

18:33

say where he lives, but , uh, [inaudible] south

18:35

down that in , in southern direction. Um,

18:38

but he , uh, just to

18:40

sit with him and I've done it a few times and ask questions

18:43

about leadership. His every

18:45

breath feels like an a leadership

18:47

education. I mean, he's every breath.

18:49

It's like you just breathe and you're just like, oh, I just learned

18:52

something about leadership. So I

18:54

assume he was interviewed. He

18:56

was , he was personally interviewed by Admiral

18:59

Rick over. I guarantee you that . So we've got six

19:01

degrees or less with separation and

19:03

a and r one way or another. It would be really

19:05

great for you to be able to talk to him.

19:08

But, so I Kinda wanna

19:10

I wanna I wanna Kinda close this one out . This is really

19:12

great and I think we're going to just need to do more

19:14

of these. And I'm going to come up with, I've got a million

19:17

military related questions,

19:19

culture. I've, I've studied it a lot,

19:22

but it's like football. I studied a lot, never played.

19:25

Um, when you mentioned

19:27

tactical strategic, and

19:29

I would call the Rick over, is that how you say his name?

19:32

He sounds like a builder. Right?

19:35

Right . And, and when you mentioned those,

19:38

what does that, what can we learn from that?

19:40

Say an organization's we've been a part of that

19:43

we could do better as, as

19:45

leaders, as far as it seems like

19:47

people know their role, know why

19:49

their role's important and know how

19:51

to stay out of each other's way, which I can't say I'm

19:53

good at that. I'm trying but

19:55

know how to stay out of each other's way. Can you guys make a

19:57

few comments on, on how

20:00

that works with [inaudible] and you were , you were , you

20:02

know, you, you , you , your perspective is a little different

20:04

Rick , because you have, I'm sure there's

20:06

a management of people above you

20:08

that has to occur for you to do your job.

20:11

Leah alluded to it before, where there

20:13

guys that are like, Hey, stay out of my space.

20:15

You don't necessarily rank above the guy but you know

20:17

more than the guy knows about that particular subject.

20:20

Can you guys just say a little bit in closing about how

20:22

teams of leaders can work together effectively?

20:25

Maybe I can put in a better question because think of me a little

20:27

bit, you know, all over, I was talking

20:29

to some guys a couple of weeks ago and

20:32

I said, well, I really think this particular

20:34

organization doesn't

20:36

necessarily have to have a head, just one

20:38

guy over everything. It could function

20:40

as team leadership. And one

20:42

of the people said that never works. And

20:45

I , I don't agree with that. Of course.

20:48

Uh , I don't think that's true. I think there

20:50

are lots of people who have failed to execute

20:53

on team leadership, but failure

20:55

to execute does not mean it

20:57

doesn't work. Um, but give

20:59

me your comments. You may even think the team leadership doesn't

21:01

work, but tell me your comments on what

21:03

you think organizations can learn about

21:06

working together and knowing your spot, tactical

21:08

strategic builder or whatever you want to call it. Can you

21:10

make a few comments on that before we close?

21:12

I would say , um, I'll

21:15

go back to an earlier comment, which is,

21:17

is that you really have

21:20

to know your, your mission and

21:22

be clear on the mission.

21:25

And once you know the mission,

21:28

then it enables you

21:31

to play your role knowing

21:34

that you're no less than important

21:36

than anybody else that's there.

21:39

And I think that, you

21:41

know , um , within

21:43

an organization , um,

21:47

it's, it's just ridiculous to

21:49

think that any,

21:51

any one leader would

21:53

be competent in all of the

21:56

aspects of running that organization.

21:59

Um, right now , uh,

22:01

here's another leader , uh , is

22:04

, um , the director of

22:06

the Palo Alto healthcare system, 5,000

22:09

employees and 10 locations

22:12

across the central Swat

22:14

. I fell out 5,000

22:16

, uh , nurses and nursing

22:18

assistants and LVNs and doctors

22:21

and psychiatrists and social workers

22:23

and maintenance workers and people

22:25

that, that sterilize the rooms. And um,

22:29

uh, I really appreciate him

22:31

as a leader. He started as

22:33

a a a nursing assistant,

22:36

just changing people's diapers

22:39

and feeding them and whatever. And he has

22:41

worked his way in the VA all the way

22:43

to be the director of this healthcare system.

22:46

And he is the first to,

22:48

to, to say , um

22:50

, almost every time that we're together

22:52

that , um, you

22:55

know, to acknowledge the unique

22:57

roles that the various leaders at

22:59

work and people that work for him , uh

23:01

, play, but leaders even amongst

23:03

themselves then and uh, and

23:05

just really , uh, building them up for

23:08

what they're , what they do , uh, that

23:10

[inaudible] without the logistics

23:12

chief. Um, then

23:15

nobody can operate on anybody.

23:18

And, you know, without , uh

23:20

, the nurse that's gonna provide the care

23:23

afterwards , uh, you know,

23:25

the patient that a brilliant

23:27

operation was done on is going to die

23:29

anyway. So he , he's really

23:32

good at , uh, at helping

23:34

people to feel great about the role that

23:36

they play within the organization

23:39

because everyone understands the mission

23:41

is to take care of those

23:43

that have, have laid their lives on

23:45

the line

23:46

for the country. Everyone understands

23:48

that mission. He talks about it all

23:51

the time. I'm going to put you in an awkward

23:53

spot, but I'm going to say it anyway. So

23:55

I mentioned reading the book. Uh

23:57

, I think brothers and rivals , um, I

23:59

think it's Patton, Eisenhower

24:01

and Bradley. And in the book,

24:03

one of the things I learned, and

24:06

I'm a little subjective on this point, but I think it

24:08

barrier is worn out by history. One of the things I

24:10

learned is that pattern was probably

24:12

our greatest general in World War II if it came

24:14

to fighting when it came to fighting,

24:17

but not necessarily when it came

24:19

to winning. What I mean by

24:21

that, the whole war that Bradley

24:24

was much more stable,

24:26

much more , um, what's

24:28

the word? Uh , humble I guess is the word

24:31

self-effacing would probably be

24:33

a better description of that. Eisenhower

24:36

too . Uh, and that one of the dilemmas was

24:39

that , uh , patent was very

24:41

flashy. Um, uh,

24:44

um , you know , domineering, you know, Pearl

24:46

handled pistols, the Ha he

24:49

was, he was wealthy. People didn't know that. Very

24:51

wealthy. So he had his uniforms

24:53

and different things customized or

24:55

made in different ways. And

24:57

the tendency is when you look at it or choose to

24:59

go, man , you know , I want to be patented . I remember when I saw

25:01

that movie version , I want to be patented . Right. And

25:03

I still love Patton . But

25:06

when I , after I read brothers and rivals, I went, wow.

25:08

The most, the most, the most effective general

25:11

overall where Bradley and Eisenhower, when

25:14

you look at effective, that is the say , I'm not

25:16

trying to disparate pattern, I'm just going, it

25:18

, it , it . But , but it took the whole

25:21

for them to work because when they ran into a jam

25:24

and they needed somebody to win and

25:27

they protected patent patent got himself in the more

25:29

junk. I didn't even know more junk. And

25:31

Eisenhower and Bradley knew we

25:33

can't win without this guy. So when

25:36

you said about the logistics chief, we can't win

25:38

with that. The Guy who can take a group in a battle this ragged,

25:40

like you said, and beat down and

25:42

turn them into a fighting machine. Right ? We can't wear the

25:44

guy . But at the same time, we can't keep peace with Russia

25:47

with that guy. So we got to keep him away from

25:49

the Russians cause he's ready. He's ready to start world

25:51

war three today. And so

25:53

as I listened to you talk, I go that

25:56

that must happen because they all understand the mission.

25:59

And Patton was able to submit

26:01

the Eisenhower who started

26:03

out his June as his junior , um,

26:06

because he recognized the mission

26:09

is to win the war, not to see

26:11

who's the best general or gets the most, you know,

26:13

victories or whatever. Um,

26:15

and so I, I, I, I love

26:17

what you're talking about and I think what

26:20

I'm compelled by is to get people

26:22

to listen to this podcast and begin to

26:24

understand the theme. Both you and Rick, if run all the way through,

26:27

which is people's capacity

26:30

to say this, I'm not bigger than this

26:32

mission. Right. And when I understand

26:34

I'm not bigger than this mission, whether you're

26:36

the guy who is quote unquote in charge

26:38

or not. Cause if the guy like the director

26:41

of the Palo Alto [inaudible] system healthcare

26:43

system, he understands

26:46

because of where he came from. I'm

26:48

not bigger than the guy who cleans the room. Right.

26:51

And that if a leader can remember that,

26:53

that will keep us all out of a lot of trouble.

26:56

Would you add anything, Rick, that you're thinking

26:58

about on that?

26:58

Well , I mean I think to add, you know, I have

27:01

seen that successfully, the management

27:03

that, that style, you know, I think you were

27:05

, I'm working at right now are our

27:07

CEO. Like he

27:09

wants us to like if we see something that's

27:11

wrong, needs to be changed, he has

27:14

an open door. You know, granted there aren't , there

27:16

still needs to be somebody on charge that makes

27:18

the final, final decision. But

27:20

you know, I've worked at a couple places that were very successful

27:23

and those guys always had that same mentality

27:25

that, you know, you hire

27:28

the best people, you know, you listen

27:30

to them, you listen to them. Right?

27:32

And so you're basically saying that look, leadership

27:34

in some ways is

27:36

about decision making, not

27:39

control. It's about saying, can

27:41

I empower remove obstacles?

27:43

And yes, at the end of the day, the

27:45

, the leader or man or woman

27:47

in charge really shouldn't

27:50

look at it as I'm in charge. Cause I'm going to tell everybody

27:52

what to do and decide everything. But

27:54

I'm gonna , I'm going to manage my team and

27:56

then I, I'm going back at book brothers and

27:58

rivals with Eisenhower. Patton would come

28:00

in and go, I got to have this many tanks. I gotta have this one. He soldiers,

28:03

gimme so-and-so soldiers . He's not doing anything

28:05

with them. I can get us to , I'll have you in this

28:07

city. I'm able to just a wonder to listen to the guy talking

28:09

in , in the, in the language of the book. And

28:11

He'd be like, I'll get you this. I can get you there. And, and

28:14

Eisenhower would know it, but on occasions

28:16

I would have a go, no, because if I let you have

28:18

those truths , then so-and-so can't win this

28:20

than England. Doesn't feel victory. I think it was Montgomery.

28:23

Then England doesn't feel the victory. And so you're just

28:25

going to have to suck it up and accept the fact that he's going

28:27

to get Monty . He's going to get there before you, because

28:29

that's what's needed to get the job done. Right . So

28:31

he's making the decision, but he's not

28:33

doing everything. Uh , this has been a wonderful

28:36

podcast. I'm inspired. I can't wait to listen

28:38

to it. And I don't say that about every podcast that we do.

28:40

I can't wait to listen to it because there are so many insights.

28:42

Hope you guys will come back. I thank you for your time,

28:45

obviously. Thank you for your service. And I think everybody

28:47

out there for their service has been in the military.

28:49

People like Jim Delone , chief petty

28:52

officer, Jim Delone who fought

28:54

for us in World War II . And I hope some of you out there, maybe

28:56

if you started to listen to this podcast and you had a view

28:58

of the military that was maybe incorrect, that

29:01

this gave you a different view of the military and what

29:03

it's done. Not only in times of war, not

29:05

only what it doesn't in , in , in , in the military

29:07

organization as an issue in itself, but

29:09

also what people post-military

29:12

are doing and organizations all around

29:14

the country to save, help

29:16

and care for people. So we'll

29:19

see a again on lead different, have

29:21

a wonderful week.

29:22

Okay .

29:25

Thank you for listening to lead different and thanks again

29:27

to Lee and Rick for coming on the show. Nature

29:29

to take a moment to leave us a five star rating and

29:31

write us a review. We'd really appreciate it. Feel

29:34

free to share our leadership content with others. A

29:36

special thank you to all those who have served in the military.

29:39

See you next time.