0:01

Eh , not what your country

0:03

can do for you and what

0:05

you can do for your country. One

0:09

word , I

0:12

have a dream that one day this

0:14

nation will, has

0:17

the returns of , well

0:20

,

0:25

I was like, I, I what I did is I

0:28

own Jay Bell [inaudible] book. Jay

0:30

Bellis wrote a book on mental toughness. I've read

0:32

a little excerpt from his book. So yeah, and

0:35

his position is that , um

0:37

, most players don't, most coaches

0:40

use it as a buzz word . Most

0:42

players use it as a bud war buzz word . And

0:44

most people don't misunderstand it. Now

0:47

I'm not saying I agree with Jay Wells Cause Jay , listen

0:49

, I don't, yeah , I don't agree with his basketball

0:52

tactics. So, but I think he's got

0:54

a perspective that says , uh,

0:56

he calls it, you know, guys thumping their chest.

1:00

Um, guys , um , you know,

1:02

trying to intimidate their opponent, et Cetera,

1:04

et Cetera, is not mental toughness. Now.

1:06

And, and I'll, I will just, I'm just going to ask you

1:08

this. Um, so when I was a

1:10

kid , uh, in a , in

1:13

and out , oh, I forgot to say , uh , this

1:15

is Russ. You'll on lead different with , uh

1:17

, stony lasers joining us. But our

1:19

primary guest is a Brahman Creighton.

1:22

Right. I said that, right. Yup . Uh, and

1:24

, uh, the big thing you need to know about Ramen, there's a lot

1:26

more , uh, cause he's coaching and teaching.

1:29

Uh, but he's a two time NCAA wrestling champion.

1:32

Uh, and this is an anniversary. He says it's a

1:35

long time ago. It's not a long time ago as George

1:37

Meichin. That's a long time ago. Basketball

1:40

Player, George. Mike is a long time ago, but not 20

1:42

years ago is not long ago. That , that, that encompasses

1:44

Michael Jordan and a bunch of

1:46

people. Yeah. I mean that's 1999.

1:49

Yeah , the 28th . That's nuts . Nothing.

1:51

I was , uh , I was, I was wa I

1:53

watched the 1972 Olympics on television

1:56

and watched , um , uh , uh,

1:59

the , uh, the u s team lose their first

2:02

basketball, but against the Russians

2:04

in the 72 Olympics and cried as

2:06

a little kid. Uh , because I was

2:08

like, I can't believe this is happening to

2:11

us. Uh, but , uh, so

2:13

yeah, I, it, you've got a lot to say

2:15

on, on the , on many topics. And today

2:17

we're , we were going to encompass Brahman

2:19

and stone's thoughts about leadership leading

2:21

different. And then I just want to lay the framework out there

2:24

for those listening and as well as for

2:26

a Brahman and for stone that

2:28

, um, we're trying to talk to

2:31

leaders. They both are in silicon valley, working

2:33

in technology companies to teachers,

2:35

to coaches, to people that are entrepreneurs

2:37

doing their own startups to , uh

2:40

, moms at home or dad's at home

2:42

or wherever they are. Because , uh

2:44

, my view, we did a podcast sometime ago

2:46

about how important sports is

2:48

for every single person that it teaches, whether

2:51

you're going to be great at it or not. It teaches

2:53

teamwork, it teaches inclusion. Uh,

2:55

it teaches , uh, a

2:58

sense of sacrifice for others and not

3:00

promoting yourself. And so we're trying to get a

3:02

lot of different views on leadership because there , you

3:05

know , I read a lot of business books and they have, I

3:07

think almost they, they will

3:09

, business writers would like this, but it's almost monolithic.

3:11

It's like there's, there's, there's this one holistic

3:13

view of leadership and I think sports does a better job

3:15

of almost anything maybe in the military of

3:18

showing you, there's a whole lot of ways to lead and

3:20

a whole lot of ways to motivate. And the way

3:22

I know you, a is from you

3:24

, uh , coaching stone son who

3:26

, uh , I won't mention his name so he doesn't feel bad,

3:28

but I remember him coming out to one of our programs

3:30

called east soccer and it was an inclusive

3:33

program. He was about eight years old and

3:35

he cried. Uh, cause he

3:37

was so anxious about, you know, being involved

3:40

and to watch him win a CCS championship

3:42

because of your coaching. That was a transformation

3:44

of a human being to me. And, and accidentally,

3:47

well I can't take all the credit for that will , did

3:49

all the work and I listened to his name, but that's all

3:51

right.

3:51

That's okay. It doesn't matter. I [inaudible]

3:54

guy . He's a special guy. Well,

3:56

you know, my experience with coaching is, and you can

3:58

tell me , um, my experience with coaching,

4:01

cause I played basketball in high school and I was pretty selfish

4:03

kid, meaning selfish player, meaning I wanted

4:05

to be the star and I wanted to shoot all the time. My

4:07

coach had a philosophy that you're supposed to pass all the time.

4:10

And so he and I were good buddies and had

4:12

a good time, but he sat me on the bench a lot because

4:15

I'd get in the game and it took me about two

4:18

minutes to start, you know, putting

4:20

on my show. And uh, he

4:22

calls me one of his best team players ever. But

4:25

that's how I was. But he shaped me and changed

4:27

my mind about that. And as an adult I

4:29

think more like he thought than

4:31

I did as a kid. So I think coach, I mean

4:34

my view on coaches is you do transform

4:36

lives, but I know you want to give the

4:38

credit cause you are all good coaches give credit to the player.

4:41

But I think coaching is more important than people think today.

4:43

But maybe I'm wrong.

4:44

Well I tell you with will , um,

4:47

it's so funny cause the first time he had thought about being

4:49

a CCS champion was when I said, hey dude,

4:51

you're going to win the CCS. Oh really? And

4:54

I remember stone calling me

4:56

either later that day or the

4:59

next day and being like, Hey,

5:01

I'm , I don't want to get his hopes up. Um,

5:05

let's, you know, let's temper expectations.

5:07

Yeah . I don't remember exactly what you said. It started

5:10

with something and I basically

5:12

told them , you don't know what you're talking about. You don't know what

5:14

I see and just

5:16

let me do my thing and uh

5:18

, trust the process. Wow. And

5:21

so, and we'll, we

5:23

, I mean , we'll probably work on the same set

5:25

of skills from the very first day to the

5:27

last day. He just happened to be an extraordinarily good

5:29

athlete. He was, and he would have

5:31

done. And the things you're talking about as an eight year old,

5:33

he still had in him at the very end, which

5:36

is why I think he didn't place at the state

5:38

term. And he could have taken it to an even higher

5:40

level. He's a very talented dude. Um,

5:43

it's emotional, you know, and

5:45

it was, it was emotional getting

5:47

him to the top of that CCS poet podium.

5:51

Um, it was taxing physically. It was taxing

5:53

emotionally and he had never gone to that

5:55

sort of deep water. Right. Um,

5:58

but he did it and I think after CCSC was,

6:00

he was done. Yeah. Um, but

6:02

that was such a pinnacle experience for him.

6:05

Yeah . That we really, he really

6:07

got everything he needed to get out of rustling

6:09

from, from that year. And from that journey

6:11

and that experience, and then having a culminate and

6:14

winning a championship and the way he did. So

6:16

it was, it was pretty special nights . Still special.

6:19

I have the footage of that. That was so special.

6:21

Hearing you talk. Uh , you

6:24

know, it , it reminds me

6:27

one of why I love sports, all Sports,

6:30

why I love coaching. I think as

6:32

I've gotten older, I watch sports

6:35

as much for coaching as I do for playing

6:37

[inaudible] . It's just fascinating for me to

6:39

watch. Like last night I was in pain because

6:41

Michigan lost to Texas Tech in

6:44

March madness and it was brutal. And

6:46

I love Michigan. I love the players, but it

6:48

, you know, they did what I did when I was 1819

6:50

years old. They got, they got in a bit of

6:52

a bind against test six tech and

6:54

it wasn't like their talent evaporated, but I

6:57

saw something emotional happened to them

6:59

in the middle of nothing that they had traditionally

7:02

been doing was working right in the first

7:04

half. And I bet I

7:06

bet you know a lot about that

7:08

kind of lock up that happens when you're young.

7:11

And so I want to take you back a little bit if

7:13

you don't mind. Two winning

7:15

winning national championships. Here's why that matters

7:17

to me. Because you know , I wanted to play for North

7:20

Carolina and basketball and I was a kid and I was like, man, I'm going to play, I'm

7:22

going to do it. And then it just kind of landed

7:24

on me. Oh No, you're not. Cause you can look at guys and you

7:26

go, they're just better. But some

7:28

of what I saw was they weren't just better, physically,

7:31

faster, taller, they were stronger.

7:34

But at the ton in my life, I didn't know that they were stronger

7:36

inside. And I played against some kids who

7:38

had grown up a lot tougher, a lot harder than I had.

7:42

And , and they just didn't flinch. Like

7:44

when a full court press was on, they didn't

7:46

, that was not the worst thing they'd seen in life for me.

7:48

I was really spoiled. This is the worst thing

7:51

I've ever seen in my life. You,

7:53

where'd you grow up? Did you grow up

7:55

Brassica? I grew up in Nebraska in Omaha

7:57

and uh, you know, our

7:59

family's from Iowa and so I was

8:01

born in Waterloo, Iowa, which I always call the birthplace

8:04

of wrestling. Uh , Dan

8:06

Gable is from Iowa gainful.

8:09

Dan Gable wrestled for Waterloo west high

8:11

school and my father wrestled for Waterloo

8:14

east high school . You are kidding. Yes.

8:16

And uh, same, same error. I

8:18

think my father was either two years younger or two years older

8:20

than Gabriel , but , um , uh

8:22

, and east was the all black high school. [inaudible]

8:25

and West was the all white high school. And

8:28

so it was super racially charged here.

8:30

And there was some unbelievable freak athletes

8:32

at my father's high school. And , um,

8:35

she's just got, he had some amazing stories about

8:38

, uh , about gable and about that time.

8:40

And I asked Your Dad's name,

8:42

Leon Leon cray . He's passed now. He passed

8:45

a couple of years ago . Um,

8:47

and , uh, yeah, just, he's

8:49

telling me about pickup wrestling matches in the neighborhood

8:52

and everybody rustled the coach at

8:54

, uh , who, the former coach at Wartburg

8:57

University, which is division three. His name is Jim

8:59

Miller. He's a hall of fame. Super , super duper coach.

9:02

Um, they were , uh , colleagues

9:04

or you know , teammates and friends at the time.

9:06

So this is some unbelievable blue

9:09

collar wrestling stories

9:11

from that time. So I was born there in

9:14

76 we moved to Omaha

9:16

Hall when I was very little and so high

9:18

school and college in Omaha and went to college

9:20

at university, Nebraska, Omaha. And then I came out here

9:23

to coach for San Francisco state in

9:25

2002.

9:26

Okay. Well here, here's the interesting

9:28

sort of , uh , uh , sort of , uh , it's

9:31

not as segway , but it's a , a,

9:33

a, our lives kind of come together and my

9:35

dad , um, tremendous baseball player,

9:37

tremendous basketball player, scholarship , uh

9:40

, to a university in the

9:43

South Lane University. Uh , during a time when, you know, African

9:45

Americans weren't going

9:47

to be allowed to go to school with anybody

9:50

but African Americans and certain universities and

9:52

, um, and they couldn't play

9:54

in the baseball league. So he played in Negro

9:56

Baseball League. Um, and , and, and

9:58

as soon as he was, as he was

10:00

, uh, um, selected to start

10:03

at second base , um, for,

10:05

at that time it was going to be the New Orleans Eagles, which, you

10:07

know, I think they were one of the last Negro

10:10

Baseball League teams to kind of get going and didn't get very

10:12

far after the, the good thing of the,

10:14

the, the major league baseball accepting African-Americans.

10:17

But he had got drafted by the military and

10:19

so he went in the military and never played again. And,

10:22

and um, and we , he specimen

10:24

a lot of time in front of the television watching baseball, which I learned

10:26

to despise cause I was so bored. Right. But

10:29

my dad , I didn't understand. I didn't understand my dad

10:31

like what you're talking about, the stories I didn't understand. My Dad

10:34

was watching gas , he played with, you

10:37

know, B in Major League baseball and he didn't

10:39

close out that part of his life. The

10:42

reason I bring it up is one, Dan

10:44

Gable is arguably for those who are listening. Um,

10:47

there's John Wooden and there's Dan Gable I think when it comes

10:49

to college coaching , uh, and

10:52

I'm not sure which one is it . It

10:54

depends on which side of the aisle you're

10:56

on. Who's the best of all time as far as college

10:58

coaches, I mean, cause you have ski is great , but I

11:00

don't think you , John, wouldn't I like to jet ski a lot at Duke

11:03

and Dan Gable, man, I forgot

11:05

what Olympics was portrayal street at 72 72.

11:07

Okay. Oh Man, he, the sports illustrated

11:10

would write about that guy. And I wasn't a big, I could

11:12

rip in Michigan. Wrestling was big. Um,

11:14

but I didn't know a lot about it. I could tell a story

11:16

about it, but it wouldn't be probably good for podcast

11:18

about wrestlers teaching me a lesson.

11:21

I got a little for lessons. Yeah . I got

11:23

a little mouthy and they were friends of mine though

11:25

. And they, especially their basketball players and

11:27

that's what they did. They , that they , I , I can't get

11:29

into the details, but they took me behind the curtain

11:31

of the, of the stage and taught me a lesson.

11:33

And it wasn't, it wasn't bullying, it

11:36

was educational. And I

11:38

never, again , they didn't call it bullying and

11:42

they still don't, those guys still don't. Right

11:45

. But when I hear you talking about your dad

11:47

and I hear you talking about Dan Gable, I think a lot of people aren't sure , Stan

11:49

,

11:50

that , um, the

11:52

, uh, the , the history that's oftentimes

11:55

buying champions. That's what I wanted to say. Oh yes. And

11:57

, and there's a history behind you becoming

12:00

a champion and the stories your dad

12:02

told you, the things you saw in her,

12:03

it definitely doesn't happen by accident. I would challenge

12:05

the whole gable a m

12:08

wouldn't thing I think heal Sanderson is, is,

12:11

is right there now with gable . Uh

12:13

, he's doing something special. Um, we

12:16

could talk about why that is and the area

12:19

in recruiting and how wrestling is nowadays.

12:21

But uh, yeah, there , there's

12:23

a lot of people that can teach well I think. Yeah,

12:26

I do tell them here's what they can't as well,

12:28

but tell it to me. Okay. So tell me how,

12:32

I have so many questions rolling through in mind and stone.

12:34

You can jump in here, but you just got me going. I mean I'm like, my mind

12:36

is just on fire right now. You

12:39

said there , there's a lot of guys

12:41

doing special things right now in this heel . Sanderson

12:43

who I don't know much about is doing some special

12:46

things for now, but what separates coaches?

12:48

Like just what is that d ? Cause it seems

12:50

like you can get, the s two guys can have the same

12:52

resources and even one guy can

12:54

have a little bit less, but the outcomes are so

12:56

drastically different.

12:57

Well , and this is all just opinion, right? And I've seen

13:00

a lot, I've seen a lot of coaching, I've done a lot of coaching.

13:02

Um , I think it's different on every level. I think a college

13:04

coaches are, have much easier

13:07

job than high school coaches. Okay

13:09

. It's a lot of recruiting

13:11

at the college level, especially. You talk about the division

13:14

one level , um, and those top

13:16

10 big 10 type teams.

13:19

Um, they're getting some unbelievable athletes. These

13:21

kids were born on the mat. They Russell year-round.

13:24

They'd been on world teams. They've been to , they've

13:26

had, I mean some of these kids have more international

13:28

wrestling by the time they get

13:30

to college. Then you know, some

13:32

of the bigger names you've seen in the past,

13:35

you know , um, so

13:38

when you're picking and choosing

13:41

and then you get them there and you just get to train them. I think kill

13:43

Sanderson has done something , uh , really

13:45

unique and where he's taken a

13:47

lot of the fight and the, and they still fight,

13:50

don't get me wrong, but he's taken the anxiety

13:52

and the pressure out of it. And he,

13:54

one of my favorite sayings that he says is, Hey, just

13:56

play the sport. Just play the sport.

13:59

And almost like we were playing basketball,

14:01

you know, basketball is a game. Wrestling

14:04

is about, yes , wrestling is a

14:06

match. Yes . And wrestling

14:08

is a fight. So that

14:10

makes it a lot more , uh , emotional , uh

14:13

, and a lot more at risk.

14:16

Um, I talk about this in my classes all

14:18

the time. They actually did a study and

14:21

they took a junior high to

14:23

a senior age children

14:25

and they said, what are the, what's the most anxiety

14:27

producing thing you can do in school? And

14:30

it was 12 activities. And number

14:32

one was a band. Solos

14:35

was the number one thing really. And they had

14:37

test taking and everything else on there , band

14:40

solos was number one. Number two was wrestling, no

14:43

joke. And the wrestling was because there was

14:45

this physical element to it where you could get

14:47

hurt, right ? You get embarrassed

14:49

like, like in a band solo, but you also

14:51

get hurt. Yes. So , uh

14:53

, that's why wrestling is very anxiety producing.

14:56

I think to me, just to um, kind

14:59

of jump ahead to the concept of mental

15:01

toughness. Yeah, let's do it. It's a misused

15:03

word. I think that it really,

15:05

it means being able to whip

15:07

anxiety. If I

15:09

can whip my own anxiety, that flocks

15:11

up my body so I cannot execute.

15:14

So I cannot be

15:16

free to do the moves that I practiced

15:19

to do. The skills that I practice, it's

15:21

about whipping that anxiety and being able

15:23

to whip it on demand. Right. So

15:26

incredible mental toughness is like consistency.

15:31

I remember one of the things you used to teach to

15:33

our kids, Brahman was used

15:35

to say, I don't care if you

15:38

got taken down 22 times in a row.

15:40

Oh the 23rd time, I want

15:42

you to believe that you can

15:45

win this one. And that's that.

15:47

That is the ability to continue

15:49

to overcome not only adversity,

15:52

but the mental challenge in your head

15:55

that when you've experienced some

15:57

failure, you experienced some defeats

15:59

that you , that's going to define you going

16:02

forward. And I thought that was a great , uh,

16:05

uh, exercise, a great way to help the kids

16:08

too . I thought that was good.

16:09

When you're on your way to being a champion, I think

16:11

you have to be willing to suspend objective

16:13

reality. And, and

16:16

if you take me down 22 times in a row, well you're

16:19

probably better than me probably. But

16:22

if I can suspend that objective reality and get one

16:24

in my mind, I'm better than you. I'm

16:26

better than you. I'd be , I took it out at one time. I'm better than you. All those other

16:29

22, you kind of got [inaudible]

16:33

and maybe I was

16:34

just dumb enough to believe that or

16:37

had enough ego to believe that. But you

16:40

know, when I learned, I learned this move called the low single.

16:43

And once I got this movie , it was like a new

16:45

toy. And I really, I literally felt

16:48

like I had got a superpower . Like,

16:50

I can do this whenever I want to anybody.

16:53

Right . And so I was John Smith. Yes.

16:55

And I was constantly looking for

16:57

ways to practice my superpower.

17:00

And I had got so much belief in

17:02

it that , um,

17:04

and I worked out as a freshman in college, I worked out

17:07

with our, you know, with this 167 pounder.

17:09

I worked out with a 174 pounds and 151

17:12

26 as a freshman. And

17:14

I got a lot of weight. I roasted one 35 as a senior

17:16

in high school. So two years later,

17:18

I still rustling one 26. So I cut

17:20

a lot of weight. I coach

17:23

Oliver, I have a coach that I still talk to now,

17:25

the coach me , and you know , he says, don't

17:27

make your sons cut weight. You know, you got enough weight for all of them.

17:31

[inaudible] right.

17:32

They had enough weight. So

17:34

I would work out with these guys and they would just beat

17:37

me, batting me around like a little puppy dog.

17:39

And they were kind to me. They didn't hurt me, but

17:42

they were just schooling me. But I literally

17:44

was so had so much self

17:46

efficacy in this one shot that

17:49

I'm going gonna get it, I'm gonna get the next one. I'm a guy , I don't care how many

17:51

times you're taking me. Right . And get it . If I could get one

17:53

take down, it gets 167 pounds. Why can

17:55

be it ? Anybody my weight and

17:57

wow. And uh ,

17:59

that's a, that's a , um , uh , a mental

18:01

focus to decision this. Uh, this , uh

18:04

, um, I forgot the term you used.

18:07

Objective suspending objectives , objective, reality,

18:10

objective, reality, objective reality. That,

18:13

so how do you do that?

18:15

Uh , well, I fell in love with wrestling. Okay

18:17

. And , um, I

18:20

fell in love with this move and I fell in love with the style

18:22

and I fell in love with the idea of

18:25

being , um, important

18:27

and I wanted significance. There's

18:29

a whole reasons , a lot of reasons why I chose to be

18:32

good at wrestling . Um, but

18:34

it happened to have nothing really to do with wrestling

18:36

is more about like just search

18:38

of significance.

18:39

And that's true for everybody and know . Yeah. I

18:41

mean everybody thinks identity in a sense of

18:43

wholeness in their life. Right. And

18:46

some people find it, some people don't find

18:48

it. What I'm wondering about, because I don't think

18:50

I am in sports. I love, obviously it wasn't

18:52

the athlete you are , but I'm wondering

18:54

about how you, how you dealt

18:56

with your own anxiety because I'm going

18:58

to span this out. The leadership and mental

19:01

, the mental toughness. And I love your definition and

19:03

I'm going to read you a definition or concept

19:05

about mitral chef skin in a minute . But I love your definition

19:07

about whipping anxiety. Really love

19:10

being able to do it on domain that

19:12

now that wouldn't have had any residents in the 80s cause we

19:14

didn't have anything that was on demand. [inaudible]

19:17

today we go, Oh yeah , yeah.

19:19

You know that you can whip it on demand. That's incredible.

19:22

But were you able to when you

19:24

were , because you were a champion twice? Like,

19:27

like I think if you're out there and you're not as

19:29

someone who played sports or whatever, it's

19:32

hard to win . I remember just playing high school,

19:34

we played a team called Grandville and the season twice

19:36

we beat them. We were, they had only lost

19:38

I think two games the whole season went through the tournament

19:40

beat everybody, played them again and the championship

19:43

of the tournament and lost simply

19:45

because we could not sustain. We

19:47

just saw him and we were like , uh , seriously again.

19:50

It's hard to be people more than once. And I

19:52

think this idea about anxiety

19:55

isn't a lot of leaders, people who run startups,

19:57

people who live life. I know I talked to students that get over

19:59

academics. Did you identify

20:02

your anxiety when you were growing up and be able to say, okay, I know

20:04

how to tackle it.

20:05

So I've told this story so many times. It goes way

20:07

back to when

20:09

I was little. I first started wrestling

20:11

before I even can remember wrestling. Okay . Um,

20:14

I was pretty good and my dad worked with

20:16

me a little bit and it wasn't near

20:18

like it is today. Just wrestling was just different.

20:20

Like we were seasonal Russell for the

20:23

YMCA . Uh, my dad was one of the coaches.

20:26

My uncle was a coach. Um, my cousins

20:28

were on the team. It was just, it was part

20:30

of the culture, especially in des Moines, Iowa at

20:32

the time when I was, when I was a little

20:35

under 10, eight, eight, six,

20:37

seven, eight, five, six, seven, eight years old. And

20:39

I won because

20:41

, um, I

20:44

dunno , I had, I don't know if I used call the ability,

20:47

but I could, I knew my body

20:49

pretty well for, for a little guy and

20:52

uh, um, you know, little

20:54

kids wrestling. So when

20:56

I got to the fourth grade,

20:58

I think was the first time I actually lost a match. So

21:00

I rustled from like kindergarten to fourth grade one

21:03

everything and would pin everybody to

21:05

oh wow. The headlock, which is our funny, I'm

21:08

not a headlock guy. Funny

21:11

the guy get the head like [inaudible]

21:16

and using a headlock is the funny part. So , so

21:19

, uh, lost my first match.

21:22

I lost this guy named David Keel Guard and

21:24

he pinned me and he was a second grader. Whoa.

21:26

And he pinned me and I'd never [inaudible] never

21:28

been beat. And my dad was

21:30

like, you got beat by a second grader. And I

21:32

was so like , um

21:36

, emotionally wrecked and that the

21:38

, my father Kinda gave me a hard time about it.

21:40

I was , I don't want Russell, I'm done. Oh Russell.

21:42

And I basically didn't Russell til seventh grade.

21:45

So fourth through seventh grade didn't Russell , I

21:47

got to the middle school and I was better

21:49

than the other kids cause none of them had rustled as

21:52

little kids. And I still

21:54

dealt with tremendous anxiety, high

21:57

school, freshman , sophomore year, tremendous

21:59

anxiety. I would find ways to lose. And

22:02

I wanted to please my

22:04

father. I wanted to please my coaches. And

22:06

it was very old school coaching

22:09

and I came from quote unquote, a good program

22:11

and quote unquote had quote unquote good coaches.

22:15

Um, they weren't bad coaches. They wouldn't be

22:17

what I consider really good coaches

22:19

cause they weren't awesome communicators. And

22:22

to me it's about, I have to be able to communicate

22:24

what's in my brain. And then your brain, I have

22:26

to use the right motive and

22:29

the right action for motivation

22:31

to get you to do what I want you to do. And

22:33

the things that I know will get you to a higher

22:35

level, right? So they would say

22:37

things like, hey, great and get tough. And

22:40

I'm like , I don't know how I

22:42

don't tell me how to get tough, be more specific

22:44

please. Um , and

22:47

they'd say, Hey , move your feet. And I say

22:49

, you weren't moving my feet like this. You want me to feel like that? I

22:51

don't tell you how to move my feet being specific.

22:54

And so I, one of the ways I coach , I try

22:56

to coach like I wanted to be coached. Oh

22:58

boy. Like be specific with

23:00

me, you know, tell me exactly

23:03

what you mean. I'm not that gifted. I'm

23:05

not Magellan. I didn't wake up knowing how to do

23:07

this stuff. Nobody knows how to drive

23:09

a car when they're born. We have to learn this

23:11

and you need to learn the process. And

23:14

I'm like, you, I

23:16

probably wasn't tough enough. Didn't come from a

23:18

tough enough environment, element , daily

23:20

basis to just be one of those

23:23

hard-nosed kids actually. Yeah. It was not hard

23:25

dosed . And so , um,

23:27

my mother of all people was,

23:30

she saw me struggling. She saw me struggling to make waves.

23:32

She saw me losing matches that I should, when

23:35

she saw me, I would get to the finish line

23:37

literally and trip and somebody else would win. And

23:39

um , that's a metaphor. But that's, I did that on

23:41

the mat . Understood. Constantly. And

23:45

uh, I remembered the state term and I got beat

23:47

out at the state term my sophomore year by a

23:49

kid that I could beat, had beaten before

23:51

he'd beaten me. But I kinda just rustled

23:53

soft. Yes. And they both

23:55

were like, like,

23:58

like boy Schwab was that

24:00

right? And both of my parents were tough

24:03

enough to say that wasn't good enough.

24:05

What was that? Yeah , you're just like a wimp. Right.

24:08

And some moms , my , my wife won't say that to my

24:10

kids. Yeah . You know, I'll say

24:12

it. Sure. But my wife won't say it. And

24:14

I think it's easier when the mom will say

24:16

it. I would agree. When

24:19

your mom's gonna go, when your mom's going to hold you

24:21

accountable. My mom did. You're not, you don't have any

24:23

place to hide. But yeah. So

24:26

I didn't really have a place to hide, but she was willing to

24:28

help. She was my mother . My mother is probably

24:30

the best coach I've ever had. She's brilliant. She was on, she

24:32

was anchorwoman 25 years on an

24:34

Omaha TV hitting

24:36

really a sharp lady. And so

24:38

she went and sat in the bookstore

24:41

and sat there for an hour and read

24:43

through all these motivational books. And she picked out

24:45

the book that was for me. And I happened to

24:47

have a shoulder surgery from football

24:49

at the time. I was very Phrygia lay

24:52

, that's French for fragile

24:54

jails . And , uh, so I got hurt and I was in

24:56

the hospital. I had opened , uh , uh , uh,

24:59

inpatient surgery for my shoulder. She

25:01

bought me this book. It was the first book.

25:03

I was a junior high school. The first book

25:05

that it's embarrassing that I ever willingly

25:08

read cover to cover. I think

25:10

there are a lot of kids out there listening that would relate to you completely.

25:12

I mean, you know, when you're in school, you just read enough

25:14

to get the assignment done. Or

25:19

I did some adventure, choose your own adventure

25:21

books. Those were cool, but I was not

25:23

a reader and I

25:25

am now, but I was not then. And

25:28

I read this book and then was like, how do they know

25:30

so much about me? Oh Wow.

25:32

And it gave me some practical

25:34

things to do to work on my mental

25:36

toughness to work on quote unquote, mental tough

25:39

to work on my emotional

25:41

control to work on. Beautiful in

25:44

the book, the guy who's really has

25:46

been a mentor without ever meeting. And the guy for me

25:48

for years, his name is James Lee , or he wrote the book

25:50

, um, this

25:53

whole concept of your ideal performance state

25:55

became like my mantra and

25:59

how to find my ideal

26:01

performance state. And it was just as lethal

26:03

as my low single. Right. So now

26:05

I have this book and all these

26:08

mental tools and I have this new

26:10

found skill and I started working

26:12

a lot harder. And then I started having

26:14

these leaps in athleticism. Like

26:17

I got stronger

26:19

and faster than I'd never been. And then I'm like

26:21

almost like, wow, what can

26:23

I do with this? And, and

26:26

I made some like decisions, I'm, I'm done

26:28

losing. It wasn't like I want to win

26:30

this x type , I wanna , I wanna stop

26:32

losing what I want to do. I don't want to lose

26:35

anymore to anybody ever.

26:37

Wow. Which is a lot of pressure too , because

26:40

until I was probably 30 some years old, I had to be the toughest

26:42

guy in every I was in. Yeah . Which is

26:45

not necessarily healthy, but

26:49

you've already achieved that in this room. Okay. I appreciate

26:51

it with me. I knew that when I walked in. But you

26:57

want to be the one to bring it up. So,

26:59

no, but this like I'm discovering

27:02

that stuff all at the same,

27:04

you know , I think that's a key word you just used. Like when

27:06

I'm listening to you talk, I go, okay

27:08

. And I was her super reader. Right.

27:10

But I didn't, the thing that's

27:13

the thing that I see about you and you know, stone probably

27:15

had what you had too is

27:17

even though you stopped wrestling from fourth grade to

27:19

seventh grade, you're , your

27:22

reasoning behind it was, it sounds like

27:24

to some degree you were, I mean, you were very

27:26

young. You are still discovering yourself, but what your

27:28

mother did is she helped

27:30

you discover who you were and

27:32

what you're basically saying. You said , uh, uh,

27:35

emotional control. And I, you know, I think I still

27:37

have trouble with that and I'm long out of high school.

27:39

But it, that's a tremendous definition

27:42

for mental toughness and probably makes

27:44

mental toughness , uh , a

27:46

bit of a cliche and that what you're

27:48

really talking about is the capacity to know yourself

27:50

well enough to control yourself under anxious and

27:52

difficult times. And here's an interesting

27:54

quote I'll be , I'll be interested to see what you, you

27:57

think about it. Microcephaly

27:59

in the book that Jay Billis wrote called developing true

28:01

strength on and off the court. Uh , said

28:04

we may be born into a great family situation

28:06

or a difficult family situation that

28:08

forces or conditions you to be tough, but we

28:10

aren't born that way. Toughness

28:12

comes from how you handle your experiences, what you

28:15

learn from them and how you're guided through them,

28:17

by others in your life. And of course I would put

28:19

your mom down under there as, as

28:21

others in your life and that, that and your

28:23

dad obviously too. Um, but

28:26

it seems to me that part of your,

28:28

if I think you develop leaders, so let me

28:30

just get that out there. When you're working with these kids,

28:32

whether or not they go on to lead two people, 20

28:35

people, 200 people that are just themselves, I think

28:37

you lead, you develop leaders appreciate that. Um,

28:40

and so I think sometimes the, and

28:42

I talked to guys, silicon valley about this who run companies.

28:44

They, they, they didn't come from a sports background

28:46

or athletic background. And I, and I tell them , you're missing

28:49

something about leadership because a lot of what

28:51

I feel like I learned about leadership internally

28:53

and most of it unfortunately I figured out after I was done

28:55

plan cause I went back and reflected and

28:57

said, why wasn't I better in certain situations?

29:00

And it's because I didn't have some

29:02

of the maturity inside that

29:04

other guys I played with. Did . And talent

29:06

is always a factor. But I think that not having,

29:09

if you don't have emotional control, you

29:11

can't harness your talent. Would that be correct?

29:14

I agree. 1000% . This quote

29:16

by, by uh, by coach, she said

29:18

she said he was Jeff Ski just as Husky . He

29:21

, uh , reminds me a lot of Mike Denny. Um,

29:24

my, my college coach, he's still coaching at

29:26

the University of Maryville. He's 72.

29:29

Wow. I believe. Um, I

29:31

always tell stories about coach Danny and he

29:33

gets greater every time I tell this story, he's like,

29:35

it gets taller, easier as hair, it gets darker.

29:38

He gets younger. But , uh, uh

29:40

, coach daily between my mother and coach

29:42

Danny and my father , um, coaches

29:45

like a second father to me. I

29:48

mean, it's really deep and

29:50

I still get a text from coach Danny every day. You're

29:52

kidding. Every day, every day. Well,

29:54

I'm not the only one , so 89 people in this text

29:57

chain, but consistently,

29:59

and I'm glad to be one of the 89 slowly and

30:01

a , it's a motivational thing. Like

30:03

I could even read you what he sent today. He's,

30:07

he's, he's very consistent.

30:09

What does coach did? Okay.

30:12

Success follows those teams

30:14

and individuals that are willing to fight for every inch of

30:16

improvement. Those that are willing to

30:18

do a hundred things, 1%

30:21

better coach. Wow.

30:23

So, I mean, and it goes on and on 1%

30:26

better every day. So I

30:28

don't know, I was just talking to some of my colleagues

30:30

today. Like I think that for

30:32

you to be a great leader, you

30:35

have to have been a good follower at some

30:37

time in your life. That's beautiful. And

30:39

, um, I

30:42

know when I lead and my son

30:44

will point this out about my own coaching and I , whenever your kids

30:46

tell you something about yourself, it's like, oh Geez , it's

30:49

embarrassing, but it's like putting

30:51

a mirror up to your face. And he says, you don't like

30:53

that kid cause he won't conform. I'm

30:56

like, how do you know that about me and

30:58

stuff? But you're right, you

31:00

need to conform a kid. And because

31:03

we're trying to go this way and I know where we're going

31:05

and you need to get on board because I have the vision

31:08

and um, obviously

31:10

we're not trying to stamp out any individualism,

31:13

but we all gotta be on the

31:15

same page if we're going to have success. And

31:17

so I had a lot of practice

31:21

with coach Danny and

31:25

he set a standard of excellence that

31:28

is still relevant in my

31:30

life every day. Um , I think sometimes

31:32

it causes me problems cause I expect things

31:34

to be like coach Denny would have

31:36

them be coach Denny.

31:38

Yeah. I can't feel

31:41

coached in these shoes. Um , I don't

31:43

have coach Denny's. Uh, uh,

31:45

what's the word? My Guy, Steven , a , uh,

31:48

Smith's used to Stephen [inaudible] , Stephen

31:50

A. Smith , he says he's a cache . I don't have the cache.

31:53

Okay . That coach Denny has. But

31:55

, uh, I want to be coached

31:57

in Ian's in a lot of ways. And I think everybody that

32:00

competed for coach to any wants to be him

32:02

in some sort of way. And so , um,

32:05

the bay area is not Nebraska and

32:08

anywhere else in the Midwest. Um, and

32:11

so things don't work like that here, but

32:13

the standard of excellence is still there.

32:15

And that was, that's all.

32:18

And it sounds like what you're trying to do,

32:20

and I want to take a little

32:22

bit of a break if you can stay around a little bit longer. Sure. Uh

32:24

, but just to give us a standup break, but it

32:26

sounds like what you're trying to do is

32:29

bring all of the richness of

32:32

mom and dad , uh

32:34

, two or three coaches in your life, Denny

32:37

being be important. The

32:39

, I grew up in Midwest to the Midwest.

32:41

There's a Midwest culture. It

32:43

still exists today and I think it's

32:46

misunderstood generally in the west coast. A

32:48

completely, they did this

32:51

long . I mean we could get into a whole talk about that, but

32:54

you're trying to bring that, interpret

32:56

that and communicate that to kids here. And

32:58

when I, when I was, I was home not long ago

33:00

, uh , bringing , bringing my

33:02

mom out and um, I

33:04

was talking to some of my friends about how it is they're

33:06

in coll , uh, high schools, sports and college

33:09

sports and they said it's changed,

33:11

you know, because obviously the , the coaching culture

33:13

is changing . You don't say or do some of the

33:15

things maybe you used to say or do. Um,

33:17

but the culture of, of it, of sports

33:20

in the Midwest to me was part of community and

33:23

it was how you knew people. It's how you made friends.

33:25

And even I didn't play baseball, but I

33:27

would go down to the softball diamond or the baseball

33:29

diamond and where they had all the little league

33:32

games cause all my friends, brothers and sisters

33:34

would be playing. I live like a walk from

33:36

it. I dribble my basketball everywhere . So I dribbled down

33:38

and I just sat there and talked to my friends and watch

33:40

it. It wasn't about we're playing baseball,

33:43

it was about this our community. I

33:45

went, I went to stone, doesn't even know this. I went

33:47

to a number of wrestling matches in my school

33:49

cause I was sports editor from this paper. So I would

33:51

write about wrestling, which was I had to learn about

33:53

it and we had really good wrestling teams.

33:56

Uh , and I was like, I could never do

33:59

it. I used to be getting ready for

34:01

practice and I'd see , um , Jeff

34:04

van Scotter , he was one of our all state guys trying

34:06

to cut weight, had this plastic thing

34:08

all on him . He's trying to sweat, he's limerick

34:11

lemons. And I'm like, I'm

34:13

like, you know what I said to myself, I, I

34:15

could never play that sport because I , I

34:18

just don't think I could bring myself to do it.

34:20

You know? And when I hear you

34:22

talk, I think there's so much, and I hope

34:24

the kids that you work with know this , there's

34:26

so much you're trying to package and communicate

34:29

about a culture of sports that is more

34:31

than about even winning or whatever.

34:33

It's about family. And

34:35

when I hear you talk, I hear you talking about family.

34:38

When I hear you talking about your son, you're talking about family

34:41

and, and to me that great

34:43

leaders come out of those environments. And

34:45

I then when I was reading about this and , and

34:47

I , and I, and I, and I, I kinda recommend

34:50

that book for you, although I don't know that you would

34:52

learn as much as you might be aggravated by some of the things

34:54

he gets wrong. Uh, but

34:56

the, the, the thing he says here

34:58

about, he called it toughness, developing true strength

35:01

on and off the court. I think that comes

35:03

a little bit closer to the insights and awareness and

35:05

philosophy you have is a giving somebody

35:07

the internal toughness to be able to do what

35:09

they need to do when that anxiety and

35:11

fear jumps on them on demand. So

35:14

next time around I want to talk when we take

35:16

a break, I want to talk about how

35:18

you look at developing leaders

35:21

from that mindset of coaching. Meaning coaching

35:23

leaders. I know that's not what you don't go

35:25

into a um , you know, a Facebook

35:27

and coach up the developer, the

35:30

, the product managers. But you could, I

35:32

was going to say you could and so I think they took

35:34

a look at that and if we decided to get crazy, maybe we'll talk

35:37

a little about politics and about why,

35:39

why certain people crumble and

35:42

other people don't crumble. Not that you have to talk

35:44

about anything political because I watched some political

35:46

leaders, they wilt underneath

35:49

the pressure and others tend

35:51

to stay on. I mostly think others are from the

35:53

60s in the, in the old days. But

35:56

there's a lot I think we could learn from you about

35:58

how do you sustain it, how do

36:00

you keep going? Why do I have a lot to learn

36:02

about having a thick skin as well as one of

36:04

the reasons that I would never go into politics.

36:06

I, I'm, I'm used to adulation. And the

36:08

fact that you're using them , it shows your

36:10

intelligence that you wouldn't go into politics. That's

36:13

just sheer Bruton until, yeah , you gotta be tough for

36:15

that. And I don't know if I have that type of

36:17

toughness, but , uh, well, why do it when

36:19

you can do it ? You do. I mean, I

36:21

was more fun to do this. Well, and you change

36:23

lives. I can tell. I can tell you the names of all

36:25

my coaches starting with Mr Eastwood

36:28

and seventh grade. I can tell you, ms Mr.

36:30

Vaughn , when I was on football team, I can tell you every

36:32

coach I ever had and the impact

36:34

they had on me as some of them didn't know what they were doing.

36:37

And, but still it was like

36:39

I learned to follow. Thanks a

36:41

lot. Ramen . We'll go into the second session

36:43

and just a little bit and talk more about leadership specifically. Awesome.

36:46

Thank you.