0:00

Eh, not what your country

0:03

can do for you. Ask what

0:05

you can do for your country. One,

0:10

would I

0:12

have a dream, but one thing this

0:14

nation will, has

0:18

the returns

0:26

this lead different. We're here with

0:28

, um , Brahman Creighton and Stone

0:31

Eliezer . And we've been talking really about

0:34

, um, learning

0:36

and developing the kind of

0:38

mental, emotional , um,

0:40

strengths , uh , to be able to succeed

0:43

at whatever endeavor you are facing in

0:45

life. And that being a leader is really about

0:47

, um , discovering

0:49

yourself, who you are, understanding your identity

0:52

and developing the internal strength, the

0:54

mental strength to be able to push through those,

0:57

those valleys and climb those mountains to

0:59

be able to be successful. And

1:01

as you were talking and, and, and

1:03

on, you know, on our break, but as we were

1:05

talking and discussing, you

1:08

made me think about how I, how I grew up. So my

1:10

mom , um, I was in high

1:12

school, was predominantly white and you know, Midwest

1:15

and, and I had a grip from suburbia.

1:18

Um, and, but my mother, she put us in those schools

1:20

cause she really wanted to make sure we got real educated at

1:22

one of the best schools in Michigan, but she was a

1:24

teacher. She refused to teach there. So

1:27

she went and taught in the inner city because

1:29

she was like, these kids don't have

1:32

and will never have unless they are equipped.

1:34

Cause she grew up in Jim Crow, south Tennessee

1:37

going to the river to get water to bring

1:39

it to the house, all that kind of stuff.

1:42

And um, she walked up,

1:44

she sat down with me one day and she said , um,

1:46

you don't have enough black friends. And of course

1:49

I'm sitting there going , um, I

1:51

didn't know that was one of my goals was to count count

1:53

the number of friends. I had a various races. And

1:56

she, and she, of course this

1:58

was, this was back in the day, right? She goes,

2:00

well let me help you understand. And

2:02

so Camp Hall Park was deep, Inner

2:05

City, grand rapids, Michigan. And my mom said this

2:07

summer, you're not going to play with your school guys. You're going

2:09

to play with the inner city team downtown

2:12

where, where I come, where I teach and

2:14

I've talked to one of my friends, Mr.

2:16

Lewis , and he's going to take you on to his 16 above

2:19

10 I was 13 in eighth

2:21

grade and you're going to be on it. And

2:23

so she said, I'll drop you off and I'll pick

2:25

you up later. And I was like,

2:27

you're going to drop me off. Because to me now,

2:29

living in the Berry Eagle Camp , Campo Park where I was at, where

2:31

that's not really dangerous but to, to our

2:34

area, that was dangerous. And

2:36

so she dropped me off at

2:38

Camp Park and I stood there and

2:41

I didn't know where I was going, what I was going to do. I knew

2:43

Mr. Lewis , that's all I knew. He came up, showed up and

2:46

then the other players came and every

2:48

last one of them was visibly

2:52

tougher, emotionally stronger

2:55

and better and I just,

2:58

I didn't, I don't think I knew how to be depressed

3:00

at that age because in the Midwest , I'm not sure you're allowed to be

3:02

depressed. You

3:04

can be a lot of things that didn't come around yet

3:06

. We'll discover it . Yeah, yeah,

3:08

yeah. If you get depressed, you're really in trouble. So you

3:10

better

3:11

played. And I remember we were

3:13

running some drill and I bumped into a kid. He goes,

3:16

don't you ever bump into me again? And

3:18

I just kinda inside I just kind of freaked out

3:20

and got really afraid. Um,

3:23

and uh, and it went on the whole by

3:25

, uh , a quarter of the summer. And then one time I was

3:27

standing there and I was talking to a kid named

3:30

Terry Roscoe . Terry Roscoe would go on to be all city

3:32

and all whatever. Actually seven

3:34

of the guys on that team will go on to

3:36

be incredible. And

3:38

I was just put on it and I would, I

3:41

would actually as a freshman end

3:43

up watching some of them play varsity while

3:45

I was on a freshman team at games

3:47

and they were killing people, you know, just

3:50

killing us. Not me, but the

3:52

team. That was the seniors , but my, my I

3:54

, I bumped I Terry Rascal, Canton . He

3:56

goes, so you're from Kentwood

3:58

cause y was from, it was considered to be, you

4:01

know, somewhat a fluent and that's all

4:03

relative to the Midwest. You what you were saying

4:05

earlier but the differences is not

4:07

that big a difference but it seems like it

4:09

is based on distance from point a to point B.

4:11

He said this your for Kellyanne , he said,

4:13

what's your last name anyway? And cause they,

4:16

you know, they just knew it was for us. That's all they

4:18

call me and I said, you will , they go, you

4:20

will, you wouldn't

4:22

be misses you a son and

4:26

teary . I go, yeah, my mom's ms teaches the south middle.

4:28

My Mom taught Floyd Mayweather. Well no way. And

4:30

she seriously yeah and so and

4:32

so my, my Terry

4:35

Roscoe turns to all the kids goes get over

4:37

here. The whole team walks over years.

4:39

This is Mrs Ewells son and

4:42

there's another kid named Roscoe something. He goes,

4:45

Mrs you miss you. If

4:47

you're in a class and you won't learn, she

4:50

will make you learn. And from

4:52

that point on I was in and would be in

4:54

with them for three years. They played in the city of [inaudible]

4:56

, but it was the time of my life

4:58

at 13 or 14 when I became tough prior

5:01

to that. And they started teaching

5:04

me to be tough like, and teaching

5:06

me on it quite frankly, to be an African American. They

5:09

started going, okay dude, you don't even know. You

5:11

don't even know which side is up. And

5:13

that was a transformative, you know how that conversation

5:15

you have with your mother that we mentioned in our, in a previous

5:18

episode, that was the conversation

5:20

that changed my life. And so when you were talking about the different

5:22

in the Midwest and in

5:24

the, in the West and uh,

5:26

and the difference in cultures and the way things

5:28

are and that we love living out here and of course many

5:31

years ago, I can't imagine that scene

5:34

taking place today where parents

5:36

would sit down and say, you're going to go to a hard

5:39

place at Dane . You're not tough enough as a kid.

5:41

That's when my mom was basically saying, you don't know your

5:43

own culture, but I know your own people and

5:45

you don't have the internal,

5:47

I dunno if everybody loves their kid as much as your

5:49

mother obviously loved you to do that for you

5:51

. That was a gift. Yeah. Well it really

5:53

was a gift. So you were talking, I was like,

5:56

I , I, you know, I think about your dad. Think about your mom

5:58

and think about what you're talking about. Anytime I did the lesson , I was like,

6:01

that's the kind of stuff that's done for

6:03

us by those as coach k said in our previous

6:06

podcast that's done by those other people in our

6:08

lives who help us along the way. And

6:10

so what we were, I was trying to , uh , uh,

6:13

uh , prompt a , a Brahmin and I want to

6:15

get stone in on this too, that I think

6:17

as a coach and as a teacher,

6:19

which is funny cause they're the same thing, right? Um,

6:23

it's a coach and a teacher , um,

6:26

that you develop leaders and

6:28

um, and stone's done, done some coaching work with

6:30

you and its code . Some others and mentors,

6:32

a lot of people now, a tremendous number

6:34

of people. But when, when

6:37

you look at someone and you're saying,

6:39

OK , cause I'm thinking about leadership, I'm thinking about

6:41

Silicon Valley. So for instance,

6:44

I think some of the problems I worked in

6:46

DC for a while too . I think some

6:48

of the problems d c is having , uh , and

6:50

again this is Russ with a brown Creighton in stone

6:52

at liaison lead different. Um, some

6:55

of the problems that a silicon valley is having

6:57

with Washington is also cultural. And

7:00

that even in d c d c is, is,

7:02

is a little bit east coast with

7:04

a southern charm. But as far as the intensity

7:07

level, it's east coast and,

7:10

and the seriousness level and

7:12

the don't mess around with me level.

7:14

It's a , it's a rough town

7:17

and it looks good on TV, you

7:19

know, but hand to hand combat

7:22

is, it's like being in a fight.

7:25

Um, but I look at leaders today and

7:28

I look at leaders of yesterday and sometimes

7:30

I think the thing that's missing is that

7:32

not a lot of leaders have that internal

7:34

strength. And we won't mention names

7:36

so nobody gets upset. But it seems like there's some

7:38

people out there who can get hit with criticism

7:41

and they punched back. They dodge,

7:44

they know it's a fight. There are others

7:46

that get hit with criticism and they don't realize it's a fight.

7:48

It's a battle. If you want to be president, if you want to

7:50

be governor, if you want to be mayor, if you want

7:52

to start a company, they say most companies fail within

7:54

five years. You better have something

7:56

inside of you besides an idea. Does that,

7:58

does that seem appropriate? So I'm wondering

8:01

if you were to look at leaders and say, if I was going

8:03

to develop leaders in any area, how

8:06

would you start as a coach? What

8:08

would you, cause you talked about coaching Willie

8:11

Eliezer and the other podcast and your kids, but

8:13

I'm wondering if you get this person who's just like, I want

8:15

to be great but I'm afraid

8:17

or I'm anxious, where would you start?

8:21

Well, I think part of it is , is working for the sake

8:23

of working. You know, I think hard work

8:25

makes kids just so much

8:27

better. Character-Wise

8:30

and you know, I talked

8:32

about that and the article that I wrote, I

8:34

wrote this article about my middle child and his

8:37

journey through wrestling. He's a very non competitive guy.

8:39

Oh really? Where's the, where's the article? Um,

8:41

I posted it on linkedin somewhere. Have to

8:44

get that, we'll, we'll put the call of those who

8:46

stay will be champions. Great article. We will put

8:48

that on our podcast link so

8:50

people can get to it. So I

8:52

just think when you don't work hard as a kid,

8:55

just doesn't make you.

8:58

And I don't want to speak for everybody and I'm just speaking

9:00

from my own personal experience

9:02

and friends and family

9:05

that I've watched and yeah, you just never gonna

9:07

regret working hard boy. You

9:09

know, and when

9:11

we get out of the sake of racing

9:14

for some gold , when we just work hard

9:16

just to work hard, we climbed the mountain because it's there.

9:18

Wow. It's right there. Let's time it, you

9:20

know , uh, for my sons

9:22

, people laugh at me when I say this. I want three

9:24

Ninjas. That's what I want. I want three Ninjas.

9:27

I got three sons. I want them to be all three Ninjas.

9:29

I want him to kick butt in school. I want them to be the

9:31

best people they can be. And it's

9:34

a goal set out there for them. And

9:37

you know, if it's

9:39

not like a, we're not

9:41

doing it for a title.

9:43

I think that's really interesting that you're not dating . I want to get

9:46

started on this, that when you're talking to your sons,

9:48

and again, you know, as ramen mentioned,

9:50

he's not, he's not telling you what you gotta do.

9:52

He's saying what he has learned

9:55

or what he's experienced and when someone

9:57

was to NCAA champions, I'm listening. You may

9:59

not, I'm listening cause I'm , I didn't went to

10:01

enca champions. I didn't win to high

10:03

school champions. I didn't win to nothing .

10:05

There's so many people who've done so much more in the sport

10:08

than I than I do. I almost get like borderline

10:10

embarrassed when people talk about anything

10:12

I've done because of pales in comparison to

10:14

some of my heroes.

10:15

I've noticed that with great athletes. And I think

10:17

part of the thing is when you, when you stop at

10:19

high school, like when you're high school, when you're done, which was me,

10:23

I have a better perspective sometimes than guys

10:25

like you do on yourself because we realize

10:27

how hard we worked in high school.

10:30

But it didn't. It didn't. It did . We couldn't

10:32

get there. And so you have the, I have this,

10:34

this really intense respect for

10:36

anybody who, who plays

10:38

college, anything cause I just go

10:40

, I couldn't do it. And, and, and then pro

10:43

I'm like okay that , that's another

10:45

one. So sometimes it's perspective. Your perspective

10:47

is from the level you were at

10:50

up. Mine's the level I'm at up.

10:52

And so the reason I look at it that way, and I think you remember

10:54

most people in the world in America

10:57

for sure, never

10:59

came close. And so we can learn a lot. That's

11:01

why I want to hear from, I want to read Bill

11:03

Walsh's book. I wanna read Jerry Rice's book. I want to hear

11:05

what Michael Jordan has to say. I want to hear what

11:07

Lebron has to say. Forget what you think

11:10

of these guys. Coby . Brian , I , I he wasn't , I was

11:12

never a huge fan of Coby Brian's , uh

11:14

, in basketball. But he, he's doing

11:16

some things right now with his life that I go, I've gotta pay attention

11:18

to that. That's special. So I'm more trying

11:20

to help the CR , the group understand the

11:22

level of challenge it takes to go

11:24

from being a freshman in high school

11:27

than a sophomore in high school. Just

11:29

to make the team

11:32

puts you in a rare percentage to

11:34

be a star on a team, puts

11:36

you in even rare percentage. And then the jump

11:38

from high school to pro

11:41

that, that, that's a whole nother level. So

11:43

I think that the things, you know, you

11:46

probably undervalue because you

11:48

accomplish them and

11:50

it's done. You want to jump in there ? I was going to tell

11:53

you a little bit about that . The hard work. I think that one

11:55

of the things that helped when I was coaching

11:57

is to get the kids to buy into the

11:59

team concept. You know, that their,

12:02

their work ethic influenced

12:04

the kids around them. Right. And one of the fun things

12:07

that we didn't, couldn't do this very often, but at the end of

12:09

practice, everybody's pretty tired at the end of practice.

12:11

And I would said gather buddy in

12:13

a circle and say, okay, we're going to do last time and

12:15

do three sets of pushups. It's all, we're going four

12:17

sets of push us . We've got four sets of pushups

12:20

and we're gonna either do each sets

12:22

going to be one or 40

12:24

and I'd pick four kids and they say

12:27

they get to determine is it going to be one

12:29

or is it going to be 40 and everybody's

12:31

cheering because they think, oh we'll

12:33

do one, one, one. I said, okay, so

12:36

you know Charlie Jones here, you , you're

12:38

going to tell us first, are we going to do one or

12:40

we 44 our first one I said, but before Charlie

12:42

tells us, Charlie's got to

12:44

answer this question to himself. Is

12:47

Charlie the kind of guy who would sell

12:50

out your future to be popular

12:52

in just one moment? Oh and

12:55

then all the kids just start groaning and then

12:57

she , cause Charlie got his eyes roll back.

13:00

I said, well, Charlie, what's it going to be? That's

13:03

40 we'd do four. We would

13:05

do 40 every time. Every

13:07

time I can get them to think about their influence

13:09

on the whole. Yeah , and

13:11

not just themselves. They would pick

13:13

the hardest route and

13:16

I think that because they started thinking about their

13:18

friends and making each other better.

13:20

That's amazing. That's great. That was incredible.

13:23

An exercise, so, so when

13:25

you're talking about leadership and

13:28

you're talking about that , and I love what you said about your signs , here's why

13:30

I love that you weren't telling them they

13:32

needed to win a gold medal or they went and needed to be at to

13:34

win a championship. They needed to be somebody kind

13:36

of person. And then when you're banking

13:39

on, based on your experiences, when you become a kind of person

13:41

that's going to result in you being the

13:43

best you could be at whatever you can be. Absolutely.

13:45

I think what that's important for kids out there

13:47

for parents like me, I'm a parent and

13:49

I've got a 16 year old and I'm dealing

13:51

with what you're talking about now, like living

13:54

out here in California, there's

13:57

just not like I had to shovel my driveway of

13:59

snow, I had to stand

14:02

at the bus stop waiting for the bus

14:04

to come take you to school cause you had buses

14:06

and snow in the snow and

14:09

in the rain and the bus was

14:11

late and you, if you left

14:13

cause you were cold, you would miss school. So you

14:16

had to stand there. You do that enough

14:18

and you're just like you, when you moved to

14:20

plays like this, you're like fierce . You're like, hey, there's no, there's

14:22

no obstacles. Might as good

14:25

as the goal . There's a cloud like was good.

14:28

Um, so, so that, that tells

14:30

me that in some ways you

14:33

believe it's about character first as

14:36

opposed to , um, the

14:39

internal character, the development of your character

14:41

as opposed to goals. That if , if you're

14:44

dealing with a kid, you want to make sure you're helping

14:46

them get a reachable achievable thing,

14:48

which is becoming some kind of person as

14:50

opposed to giving them what may be unreachable.

14:52

Like if I say I'm going to be a physicist and maybe I can't

14:54

do it, the key is that I learned how to work hard.

14:57

Without a doubt. It's no different from any class.

14:59

I teach them any practices really. The

15:01

people that are associated with me, I

15:03

want them to develop the ability to

15:06

demand the most from themselves

15:08

all the time. This is what I do. It's like

15:10

me to pick up that piece of

15:12

trash. It's like me to be on time. It's

15:14

like me to work hard. The whole practice is

15:16

like me to focus and listen to the teacher and

15:19

be respectful and it's like me to do that and

15:21

that's the type of people that I'm trying to build

15:24

and the things I talked to my son about are more cautionary

15:27

tales. Like you see what happens to people that don't work

15:29

hard. You see what happens, don't you

15:31

like? You see what the hell they, how they, how they act.

15:34

You see what their habits are. You see what their future

15:36

looks like. You know, this whole

15:40

racketeering thing with all these parents

15:42

cheating to get their kids into school and buying

15:44

the ways the scam. I

15:46

like. I like that story. I

15:49

like this story because I like the story

15:51

because I don't like it in , in terms

15:53

of the people that were cheated from the opportunity, from

15:55

those people. Sure . But I like it from the, from

15:57

the standpoint that I could look at my boys and

16:00

go, you're going to be all right . You're going to do it for

16:02

real. You . You're not going to

16:04

have to fake it. It's not going to have to. We're not going

16:06

to have, I don't want fake

16:08

anything. I don't want to fake grades. I

16:10

don't want to fake success. I don't want

16:12

fake skills. Either you have skills

16:14

or you don't, and that's love because you're absolutely,

16:17

absolutely. I'm going to hold them accountable .

16:18

We are, you know, it's funny about

16:21

the scam and , and I've , I've got different variations

16:23

on that. Part of me emotionally goes, there's so many

16:25

major problems in the country that I'm not

16:27

sure I want to watch a lot of TV news about

16:30

rich people finding a way to get around the system. I

16:32

mean, they, my opinion, they

16:34

should just go, okay, find them a

16:36

lot of money and send it to inner cities

16:38

around the country or something or make them create

16:41

scholarships for kids to go to school at

16:43

college or something. Do something like that. But to me,

16:46

the real history lesson, and you know, today

16:49

, uh, this, the , the studies they've done show that

16:51

students are studying history less than ever in

16:53

college. The real history lesson is

16:56

a , you want to talk about having opportunities

16:58

taken away. Go back to the

17:00

fifties and sixties go back to the forties when you had African

17:03

Americans regularly kept out

17:05

of the system. You had Jews regularly kept us as

17:07

miss sons . We can lose perspective and go, okay, I know

17:09

some kids lost an opportunity, but you know

17:12

what? Most of those kids who didn't get into the school because of

17:14

those actors, kids or whatever, they went to

17:16

another school. And I think that we overrate

17:18

one school over another. I think at the

17:21

end of the day in education, I hate to say it

17:23

to all those people that are stressed in education

17:25

as an education and

17:27

more so funny I heard, you know, whenever

17:29

the , you know, racism is real and I don't like to talk

17:31

about it that much, but whenever

17:34

I get to a , you know , Boohoo and myself

17:36

about racism, I go,

17:38

well, are they sticking dogs on me? Are

17:43

they holding me down? You do need personal. Well

17:45

, no, they're not doing that. So it's

17:47

been worse and life on.

17:49

That's it.

17:50

And uh, that's why history is so important.

17:52

That's why it's so important because I think without history,

17:54

you lose all perspective. Now, I don't want to get away

17:56

from what you're teaching us cause it

17:59

sounds to me like if you were looking

18:01

at society culturally, you would say our greatest

18:03

danger, Teddy Roosevelt gave a speech on this and the whatever,

18:05

18 hundreds , uh, the greatest day.

18:07

He said one of the greatest, greatest threats to America

18:09

is the level of soft living. And

18:12

um , and that was an 18 hundreds. And he was very

18:14

fearful that because we were becoming a wealthy

18:16

nation and that people

18:18

were gaining more leisure time, even though compared

18:21

to today, they didn't have anything. They were gaining more

18:23

leisure time, that we would descend down this thing

18:25

where everybody wanted an easy way and

18:27

he was about the robust life. That was his whole

18:29

thing about you. He was sick and asthmatic

18:32

as a kid, all about him . Oh, okay, great.

18:34

Then you know, wrestler the boxer too . Yes.

18:36

And His dad said, look, you've got a weak body.

18:38

Your only hope is to strengthen this thing up. And he

18:41

just went nuts working hard,

18:43

maybe over did it later in life and in

18:45

going to African , trying to do all kinds of

18:48

safari things and reflect things and caught

18:50

malaria. But , um, so,

18:52

so definitely an interesting guy. Well, when you look, yes,

18:55

I think, yeah, I mean he's in the top five

18:57

for sure in my book, but when you look

18:59

at leadership today and you say,

19:02

and , and I think you're giving this advice and you say, okay

19:04

, if you want to be an effective leader,

19:06

I think you're saying , uh , the same way I raised

19:08

my kids. You want to start, you want to start

19:11

in, in and work your way out. You

19:13

want to build character in and work

19:15

your way out. Uh, and so it's hard to

19:17

do if you don't have role models,

19:19

which if you don't have good leadership,

19:22

if you don't have good parenting, if you don't have, if

19:24

people don't hold you accountable and people ledge

19:26

, you know, even I struggle with my youngest,

19:28

like he can, he manipulates me

19:30

and, and I parenting

19:33

one oh one I'm a little weaker with him and I'm not

19:35

as, I'm a little lazier with him

19:37

and [inaudible] on that

19:39

, that young, when he gets a , he gets away with a lot

19:41

that the older two don't. Yeah . So

19:44

it's a consistency. Well,

19:46

I'm going to run you through some, cause I, I'm

19:48

going to run you through some concepts if you don't mind.

19:50

And we're just going to do kind of a, I don't know,

19:52

a , it's not a game, but it'll help

19:55

our listeners. Cause if you're listening, if you listen

19:57

to episode one and you're listening to this one, I

20:00

know, I'm just excited talking to Brahman

20:02

. Um , it's not just because he's a Midwesterner

20:04

and not because just because of his, his sports

20:07

history and , and his current sports

20:09

life. Uh, it just to

20:11

hear the stories of people who have , um,

20:14

worked in their life to achieve

20:17

things , uh, fought through the obstacles,

20:19

the difficulties of life. Uh, had parenting

20:21

that is , um, you know, in this

20:23

world you would have to say as extraordinary, elevated parents had

20:25

weaknesses. But it's just extraordinary when you have parents who

20:28

actually mentor you and guide you in life. Cause a

20:30

lot of kids don't have that , uh,

20:32

that some kids have. Ca parents will pay for stuff

20:34

that won't mentor and won't guide. Um, some

20:36

kids have parents who can't pay for stuff, can't mentor

20:39

or Guide, cause the poverty in life has

20:41

dealt them a , a bad hand. So,

20:43

so you're fortunate, but I love some of the

20:45

things you've been talking about in these episodes. Emotional

20:47

control, whipping anxiety, being able to beat

20:50

anxiety on demand. Um,

20:52

um, uh , be trying to be the ideal person

20:55

you can be. You don't have to be better than someone else. You have

20:57

to be the best you can be. And that, that's gotta

20:59

be enough. And we can't be sad when we walk away and

21:01

say, man, I wasn't as good as that kid.

21:03

Uh, we have to walk away and say I was as good as

21:05

I can be and that's good enough. And then cheer the other

21:08

guy on and say, hey, I had a friend

21:10

of mine, I got a promotion that

21:12

he didn't get that he really wanted and

21:14

he was going end that he was above me

21:16

for a long time. And then it ended up, I

21:18

ended up getting promoted past him. And

21:21

, um, he and I were talking one day and he says, you know, I went

21:23

and bought a poster the other day. I said, okay

21:25

, cool. And , uh, we were just out

21:27

of college and he said , uh, I

21:30

want me to tell you about the poster. I said, feel free to

21:32

tell him what the poster, he said it's supposed to have a bunch

21:34

of guys racing. And there's one

21:36

guy that , uh , is crossing the finish

21:38

line right before the other guy and it says,

21:41

if you can't finish first, make sure

21:43

the guy ahead of you breaks the record. And

21:45

, uh, I think when I listened to what you talked about

21:47

today, that's what I think about. I think about you're trying to make guys

21:50

who, if they can't finish first, make sure

21:52

the guy had of him breaks the record. And I think that

21:54

kind of that, that that is beyond

21:56

mental toughness.

21:58

Alright , well that's been a process too. Um,

22:01

and there's, you know, I'm always

22:03

evolving. I'm always learning. I'm always trying to figure out

22:05

a new way to, to teach

22:07

and be more effective and also , um,

22:10

care more about the athletes

22:13

in my care, right. Um, and

22:15

my students. Um,

22:17

but there is the

22:19

fierceness in the first place

22:22

and the gold medal that is still

22:25

a driving force. You know, I, you know,

22:27

I want to stay title in high school. I was a senior

22:30

undefeated state champion in Iowa, in

22:32

Nebraska and him, he started in Alaska and

22:34

then I, I was just another great wrestling state state.

22:36

It's all right. That's all right. And I won two

22:39

NCAA titles, but they were all

22:42

identical. So I, you know, I look at it, you got eight chances,

22:44

right? Four years in high school, four years in college, I

22:46

was through three for eight,

22:48

three frayed , right? Five Times

22:50

I didn't win. And the three times

22:52

that I did when they were all identical

22:55

in terms of my mindset, where I started the

22:57

season with, if I don't one first,

22:59

it's a complete waste of time. Interesting.

23:02

That was for me. Yes. And I don't put

23:04

that type of pressure on my athletes, but

23:06

I know personally I never won without

23:08

that. And my brain

23:10

like water runs downhill. The

23:12

humans take the path of least resistance. And

23:15

so if I put it in my brain

23:17

that there was a chance I would lose. I

23:19

always lost. So

23:22

it had to be, I had to burn the bridges.

23:24

I had to burn the ships. They had to win

23:27

or perish. That's the only way my , my,

23:29

my brain could figure out

23:31

the puzzle. It sounds like you're getting my hand raised

23:34

when I hear your story. That happened from fourth to seventh

23:36

grade at fourth to seventh

23:38

grade journey. You figured out something

23:40

about that , uh , suspending objective

23:42

reality.

23:43

There's no, I didn't want to get embarrassed. I did . I

23:45

didn't like wrestling that much. I didn't want my dad

23:47

criticizing me cause I was too soft

23:51

and he wasn't, he

23:53

wasn't a Tinder enough. It's a very Midwest

23:55

stay right there. Boy You don't build wall says I

23:57

know you have to move a Bill Walsh . You

23:59

know Bella check's giving him the challenge

24:01

and be in coaching. But I mean up till bill, Bill,

24:03

Bill checked the best coach, greatest coach ever. Maybe

24:06

still the greatest cause ever. He said,

24:08

someone asked him, he said, well how in the world do you win

24:10

so much? He goes, fear of losing.

24:14

Cause I, I am petrified and I hate

24:16

the feeling of it .

24:17

It is, it , it will motivate you like no other

24:19

if you hate to lose. And I

24:21

am definitely on the Michael Jordan tip, right?

24:24

Hate losing more than I ever liked. Winning

24:27

a winning is more of a relief. Losing is

24:29

, is terrifying.

24:31

Um, so let

24:34

me ask you this. So when you think about,

24:36

and , and we , we, we, we, we have to develop

24:38

a terminology for what you're talking about. Cause you're right.

24:42

This is so far beyond mental toughness.

24:44

This is, this is holistic, right ? This is about

24:46

life. This is about how do

24:48

you manage your, your,

24:51

the , the multiple components of your life, your physical,

24:53

your mental, your emotional, even your spiritual. How

24:55

do you, how do you bring all those to

24:58

bear on the given task you have.

25:00

But I'm gonna mention some words to you that I think you'll,

25:02

you'll have a response to and you just give me

25:05

clear your response preparation. I

25:08

love it. Bob

25:10

Knight . I'll give you a statement that I think you might, and you, you're

25:12

familiar with Bob Knight cause you're a , you're a Midwest guy.

25:14

I weren't heard Bob Knight say this is j Bill. As I

25:16

once heard Bob Knight's say that everybody has a will to win,

25:19

but that everybody has a little to prepare to win. Does

25:21

that sound right? The thing is 1000%

25:24

I think the , the, the true gift

25:26

is the ability to

25:29

focus on what you want

25:31

and work really hard and

25:34

pay attention to details and just do it every

25:36

day and be consistent about it. That's the real

25:38

talent

25:39

that's helping me. Well in Bell J bill

25:41

is one of the things he said in his book is

25:43

he said , um , you know what,

25:46

and I might have a note on it here. He

25:48

said that, and I actually had known , I just remember it . He

25:50

said, what I have learned in

25:52

life, having played basketball, Duke, et Cetera , et Cetera

25:54

, is I used to think toughness was

25:56

me getting in there physically and pushing guys around

25:59

and it wasn't it . And he prescribed

26:02

exactly what you described today about toughness

26:04

being something that happens from the inside out. But

26:06

he said, I've learned that toughness is

26:08

a skill and that that

26:10

, that too many coaches,

26:13

and he was talking about college basketball, too many

26:15

coaches are not understanding

26:18

that toughness is a skill. And it's

26:20

one that when you say to a kid, be

26:22

tough. He has no idea what

26:24

you mentioned you're talking about, you

26:26

have to teach it. And he kind of implies

26:29

that some of the coaches coaching out there today

26:31

don't know how to teach it because they don't know. It is so

26:33

true. But like

26:34

I said earlier, that

26:36

I think there's a lot of people out there that can teach wrestling well.

26:38

And I stand by that. But I want, when

26:41

I say a lot, it's really a lot. You

26:43

know, there's a lot in the terms of there's a lot of people in the

26:45

world, but there's not that many people that are

26:48

really good teachers. I was talking to my class about

26:50

this other day, but how many good lawyers are there? Great.

26:52

How many good doctors are there, how many good dentists

26:55

are there? So it's the percentage

26:57

of society is not

26:59

going to be at the upper range in

27:02

every given skill. So there's not that many

27:04

awesome teachers have basketball teachers of wrestling

27:07

in a specific area. So

27:12

like, yeah, I want to teach, I

27:14

, I work hard to teach them

27:16

how to wrestle, teach them how to think.

27:19

And a lot of people are lazy and they gloss

27:21

over or they just kind of tell them, I'll

27:23

watch coaches coach and

27:25

I'll watch the kid do something

27:27

and then I'll watch the, the coach say something

27:30

to the kid afterwards and I'm going, yeah, but you

27:32

didn't address the problem. Yes. Like you

27:34

coached all around the problem. Yes . And that's

27:36

not why they're not winning in that

27:38

position. You didn't really address. And I'm , and

27:40

I'm trying to figure out, is it that you just don't know

27:42

it or you're too lazy or

27:44

they want to cut corners. So

27:47

, um, when I as

27:49

a, as a coach, I never

27:51

really fear kids like that.

27:53

Russell over there that I'm always looking at WHO's coaching them? Who's

27:56

coaching that program? Who's running that program? Who's teaching

27:58

that kid out of Russell and I respect

28:00

the coaches and the, whoever

28:02

their Sensei is, so to speak. Yes . As

28:05

opposed to

28:06

the individual. You went full karate kid on me right

28:08

there, man. You went full sporadic kid . You know I

28:10

that love karate kid. [inaudible]

28:13

lessons from karate kid. Oh my gosh.

28:16

You , you, I'm telling you

28:18

somebody just, if you just lost, just to put,

28:21

there's two movies to put on t on , on the screen

28:23

that are old time rocky three.

28:25

Oh yeah. That's a good way to put that rock and karate kid.

28:27

And I think [inaudible] got his Mojo back and rocky

28:30

threats . Exactly right . He was facing the

28:32

clever Lang and tiger. Oh . Oh,

28:35

that , that thing. So , so, so,

28:37

okay. I'm going to give you another one. Courage.

28:41

Courage. Courage is going when

28:44

you're scared, you go. Anyway. So

28:46

a soldier, I talked to my

28:49

students about courage all the time. Like this

28:51

is, hey, we're going to do a Ford Roll . Okay.

28:53

I know some of you are scared. You're

28:55

not going to get hurt. This is designed for that. Well, whatever,

28:58

whatever. But you need a little courage right

29:00

now. Think about people that actually have to really have

29:02

courage and go out and fight. Yeah. Yeah.

29:05

Uh , that's some courage. Yes. So

29:07

this is nothing kids.

29:08

So there's a quote that came out of the , the

29:11

book I've been referring to toughness,

29:13

developing true strength on and off the court by Jay

29:15

Billis . And I think this matches what you were saying. He

29:18

writes, however tough people face

29:20

their fears and doubts heads on and

29:23

they overcome them so they can function at the highest

29:25

level without that fear and doubt

29:27

inhibiting their ability to perform at their best,

29:29

embracing fear and using it to push yourself

29:32

to get better. It takes courage. And

29:34

when I read that quote now, because I prepared

29:36

it ahead of time, I realized this , what you said from

29:38

the very beginning, that mental toughness is

29:40

the capacity to whip anxiety and not

29:42

just whipping sided whipping on demand. I remember

29:45

times in my life, young, middle

29:47

age and now , um, which I guess

29:49

I'm still middle age so to speak, but the,

29:53

I could put turn on toughness for

29:55

a moment or a goal, but

29:58

I couldn't pull it out on demand.

30:00

And if I face something that I was uncomfortable

30:03

with or, or s or had never worked

30:05

that hard on, you know, one of my best experiences

30:07

in life. So I was pretty spoiled kid. I was

30:09

the youngest. So now we talked about you

30:11

get tired when you're young . My parents, by the time I got to me,

30:13

they were like, oh, here's a car. And they just,

30:16

we want to take naps and rest. And

30:19

I was the only boy, only boy. And,

30:22

and so , um, I got to college

30:24

and I decided to stay in Boston for a summer instead

30:26

of go home, which would've been easier and more lucrative for

30:29

me and all that. Um, and

30:31

I waited till the last minute. And

30:34

so because I did, you know, there's, there were hundreds,

30:37

thousands of college students in Boston. I couldn't

30:39

find one of the good jobs cause I didn't

30:41

start early enough. So I ended up working

30:43

at an ice cream store. I had never really

30:46

worked at job. The jobs I'd worked where I

30:48

worked for the recreation department at my school. And

30:50

then when I got out of college , uh , graduate high

30:52

school , uh, a friend

30:54

of my mom's was the personnel director for one of the major companies

30:56

and they had a campground they owned in northern Michigan.

30:59

Huge cramp, Ghana . They bought a mobile home

31:01

and they selected two students that were going to go to college

31:03

to run the camp. And you

31:05

got paid for doing that and you basically kept the boat

31:07

street and the fishing equipment. Right. And

31:10

Fun job . Yeah. Yeah. So here

31:12

I am in Boston. I ended up working at Brigham's ice cream

31:15

and I gotta be there at seven and I

31:17

get up at four 30 and I don't have a car.

31:19

So I had, I bought a bike and I'd ride my bike about

31:22

12 miles to get to work and back. I'd

31:24

never done any of this before in my life. And

31:26

I, and I remember, and then they got there and

31:28

they said, you got to wear this uniform. And

31:30

I was humiliated cause I'm like, I'm from the brilliant

31:32

schools, I'm a brilliant person. And now I'm wearing

31:34

this paper hat and with this brown

31:37

little, you know, it wasn't a dye , she keep it, it

31:39

almost always look

31:41

like one and, and, and

31:43

the manager says, okay, let me tell you who's going to

31:45

, you know, train you for your job.

31:48

And I'm night, I'm uh, I'm

31:50

18, I'm 18 and

31:53

I'm a , um , I'm going into my sophomore

31:55

year, some 18. And

31:57

uh , he brings me into this kid and he's like

31:59

a high school sophomore

32:02

and he's going to be my boss base . And

32:05

I was acutely got to me kidding

32:08

me. I have been reduced

32:10

to this. I

32:12

had to work the ice cream and

32:15

it was in the banking district of Boston. We're

32:17

the wealthiest, some of the wealthiest we're working

32:20

and where guys cream makes shakes and

32:23

a watch. These guys come in, in these

32:25

thousand dollar suits and they wanted to get their little, you

32:28

know, shake and whatever and their ice

32:30

cream cone or whatever. And they acted

32:32

like you didn't exist. And it was one

32:34

of them. We're toughening molding experiences

32:37

of me cause it made me realize you're nothing

32:39

special. No one here thinks you're anything

32:41

special and you're being trained

32:43

by this kid who, you know, he's,

32:46

he's younger than you. He in

32:48

your mind, my mind, in my arrogant mind,

32:50

he's not going to do what you're going to do in life. How

32:53

can this be? By the

32:55

end of the time I worked the guy I appreciated the most appreciated

32:57

the manager, I became really good friends with the kid who

32:59

trained in me and um , and

33:02

there was a construction worker who used to come

33:04

in every day and he gave me my biggest

33:06

tip of the day. All the banking guys

33:08

wouldn't even give a tip or would just walk away.

33:10

And he dropped back. This is the eighties or whatever.

33:13

He dropped 50 or 75 cents in this

33:15

cup. He said , here you go man. You know,

33:17

and I remember walking away going, here's

33:20

these elite, brilliant, really wealthy guys

33:22

and here's this guy who's really working his tail

33:25

off, making a lot less. He's

33:27

given me the biggest tip . And here I am

33:29

known for scooping ice cream.

33:32

And for the first time in my life I sat

33:34

down. I remember after this I went, that was the

33:36

first job I ever had in my life where I

33:38

had to work hard, not for an

33:40

award, but just because I had to

33:42

work hard and I didn't get paid that much.

33:45

It changed my life to have that experience

33:47

and when I listened to you talk, I think for leaders to become

33:49

leaders, they have to

33:51

be willing to put themselves or allow themselves to be put

33:53

in a position where they get no credit, they

33:55

get no glory, and they just learned,

33:58

how did you say it? The joy of

34:00

working hard to work

34:02

hard, and it took me until I was 18

34:04

ever experienced . I don't know, a lot of people experienced

34:06

before.

34:07

Okay .

34:10

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34:13

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