Michael Traill jumped ship from Macquarie Group in 2002 and became CEO of Social Ventures Australia (SVA). Whilst at SVA Michael and a cross-sector group of nonprofit CEO's then moved to rescue the collapsed and discredited ABC Childcare group and convert it into a non-profit chain of childcare centres. Michael is now the Chair of that entity, GoodStart, and continues as ever as a straight talking, sector changing leader. Tune in to this podcast interview with Elise Sernik as he talks about Chairs and CEOs, Boards, Leadership, and the marriage of head and heart.