0:00

Welcome Maxime Bonnasserre

0:03

to Leadershipedelics .

0:05

Yeah , it's a great pleasure to be here with you

0:08

. I'm honored and this is gonna be

0:10

fun .

0:10

Yeah , no , and right before

0:13

the show we were catching up and

0:15

you were telling me you're having a good week

0:17

with some vacations coming up , so

0:19

yeah , yeah , indeed , yeah

0:22

, it's gonna be fun , relaxed , we're gonna

0:24

go without the kids .

0:26

Ah yeah , reset , reboot .

0:29

Are you oh you mentioned California

0:31

going any place exciting in California

0:34

?

0:34

Well , the purpose of the trip is to go to the Grand Canyon

0:37

. We're gonna go up and hike there . So

0:39

how what ? We're gonna spend a few days in LA and then

0:41

head out to the canyon .

0:43

That's awesome . Is that your first time there

0:45

?

0:46

Yeah , oh , wow , have

0:49

you ever been ?

0:50

I've been . I was like 16

0:52

maybe or 17 . So

0:55

it's a long time ago . I didn't hike

0:57

like at the bottom of the canyon . My

0:59

father-in-law did , and he

1:01

couldn't stop talking about it . Apparently

1:04

, you can get like donkeys there or

1:06

like horses , I don't know . I

1:09

haven't tried that either , but that

1:12

sounds awesome . That's gonna be great .

1:14

I'll tell you much more when I come yeah yeah

1:17

, good , good , good .

1:18

So another thing we were talking about I

1:20

like all those little things Before

1:24

we get to like the deep stuff . We

1:26

were like looking at our teacups

1:28

and you told me your teacup

1:31

like for people watching . We

1:34

each have very artistic

1:37

organic teacups and

1:39

so I'd love to learn

1:41

the story of your teacup .

1:44

Yeah , it's a good one . I spotted

1:46

this one on MyAwayToRecorder

1:49

podcast and

1:52

I wanted to buy it for my spouse , so I

1:54

figured on my way back

1:56

, I'll just stop and buy it . But I missed the boat

1:58

. The shop was closed and I

2:01

couldn't go . So the next weekend

2:03

we happened to pass in the

2:05

area . So I brought her , yeah

2:08

, and I said here's the cup I

2:10

would like to buy for you for

2:12

Easter . And she said

2:14

you know what ? It's beautiful , but I

2:17

would rather have another one . So

2:19

she picked the other one , but this one was so compelling

2:21

to me that I bought it for myself . Now

2:24

here's the thing . I get home

2:26

a few days later . I look under the cup and

2:29

the name of the artist is

2:31

Estelle . My

2:34

grandmother's name was Stella

2:36

, like a star . In Italian , we

2:39

used to call her Estelle as a nickname

2:41

. So

2:43

now I'm drinking my tea and

2:46

I'm taking it in my grandma and she's

2:48

like present . You know she's . Yeah , I was

2:50

guided to buy that cup after all .

2:52

There you go . I love it . Honoring , connected

2:55

with the cup before , like

2:58

through the artist's work , back

3:00

to your grandma . That's wonderful

3:02

and you know grandparents

3:04

are such huge influences

3:07

in many people's

3:09

lives , you know it's

3:12

, they play such an important role , and

3:15

I love how you weave all that in with

3:17

the love for your wife , the love for

3:20

you know , and we'll talk more about

3:22

love because I like

3:24

how you summed up your journey as

3:26

a journey from love to love . And

3:30

you know , and there's love for

3:32

people who are not watching . We're

3:34

listening . There's this painting

3:37

I'm assuming it's from your daughter behind

3:40

you that says love , you

3:43

know , beautiful

3:45

pink or red background and

3:47

handprint , and many hearts .

3:49

It's all about love . I truly believe that it's all about love . Yeah

3:51

.

3:53

And that's one thing you know . We

3:55

met through the , I

3:58

would say , the social media mycelium

4:01

and

4:03

I spotted some of your videos

4:06

, and I don't remember if it was on YouTube

4:09

or LinkedIn , but I spotted

4:11

the videos and I could feel

4:13

that love radiating . I loved

4:15

your , really appreciated your composure

4:18

and your energy on the

4:20

videos . And

4:22

then one thing that was really special that you did

4:24

is you did it both in French and

4:27

in English as well , which was

4:30

unusual and I was really

4:32

never tempted to ever do

4:34

, even though I could , and I was like wow

4:37

, my hat to him for doing

4:39

that . So like I'm curious , what prompted

4:42

you to like come up with that

4:44

format and show yourself

4:46

this way and also do it in

4:48

two languages ?

4:50

Yeah well , thank

4:52

you first of all for your lovely comment

4:54

. The

5:00

yearning for the book , doing

5:02

it in both languages , just came

5:04

out of my love

5:07

of French , and I

5:09

was raised up in a

5:11

house that was French speaking

5:14

mostly . It was

5:16

some English speaking in my house as well , because

5:18

on my mother's side there's

5:20

Irish roots , so both languages

5:22

were there . But French was much more present

5:25

and as I grew

5:27

up I kind of went into

5:29

the English language

5:31

much more personally

5:34

, for work as well , and I

5:36

didn't want to lose touch with

5:38

the heritage and

5:40

the language , and so I decided

5:43

to force myself to do it

5:45

in both languages , even

5:47

though it's easier most of the time

5:49

to do it in English . It comes

5:51

out more naturally in English

5:53

, but I really want to force myself

5:55

to do it in French as well .

5:57

Yeah , what type of I

5:59

mean . I commend that . That's wonderful

6:01

and I can relate to that

6:03

. It's easier to doing it in English , you

6:07

know , even though I grew up in

6:09

France . What type

6:11

of feedback have you received from

6:14

doing it in both languages ?

6:19

Depending on who I'm reaching right . I

6:21

think that's the beauty of tackling

6:23

both languages that the words are different

6:26

, the expressions are different , the energy

6:28

might be different too . So I

6:30

think people connect , whomever

6:33

they are and what languages they speak .

6:35

For that reason , yeah , and you're

6:37

in Montreal , right ? Yes , I

6:39

am indeed . Yeah , so you know it's

6:42

. You do see a lot

6:44

of things in English and French

6:46

there , but

6:48

I'm hoping a lot of people are appreciating

6:51

that , because you don't see at least

6:53

I don't see that much of that type of

6:55

content you're putting out

6:57

in French . Maybe

6:59

there is , or maybe I'm not looking for it .

7:02

Well , you know what ? I was under the same impression

7:04

myself , because maybe

7:06

we're such immersed into the

7:09

English side that we don't see what's

7:11

happening on the French side . Maybe

7:15

there's more in France than here

7:18

in Quebec .

7:22

Yeah , so before we dive deep

7:24

in your background , your journey

7:26

, your spiritual work and

7:28

your current projects

7:31

, actually , well , let's dive

7:33

into you know what do you

7:35

do here , Like how

7:37

do you help people , how do you show up , what

7:40

is your work and who

7:42

are you ? All that briefly , because we're gonna

7:44

dive deeper and there's

7:46

gonna be an intro before all this , but I wanna

7:48

hear it in your own words Thank you

7:51

.

7:51

Yeah , that

7:53

was a difficult one for

7:55

me to express For

7:58

such a long time . I kept on changing

8:00

the words and

8:03

how I wanted it to come out . But

8:05

in essence I'm really

8:08

here to be inspiring in

8:10

my only USyncratic

8:13

ways and to guide people

8:15

in their own spiritual journey

8:17

, their self growth . You know , call it whatever

8:19

you want , in

8:22

essence that's it . I really

8:24

wanna help people free themselves from themselves

8:26

because I believe we are

8:28

our own worst enemy .

8:31

I know I've been my own , so Well

8:34

, that's a good segue and that's a beautiful

8:37

mission , really important . And I think some people

8:39

listening to that would be like , well

8:42

, what makes them so good

8:44

at doing that ? What gives them the right ? Why

8:47

would I go talk to Maxim , like

8:49

you know , and like

8:51

does he even understand what I'm going

8:54

through ? And I think for that

8:56

it's worth going to

8:58

your journey , your own journey

9:00

and what you've gone through . And

9:02

I'm just wondering , you know , like how

9:04

far back do you wanna go ? Because when you

9:06

know you were sharing that with me , I was like wow

9:09

, like there's a lot of lessons

9:11

that started early on

9:13

in your life that

9:16

were like important lesson that really

9:18

shaped your abilities to

9:20

be able to help others .

9:23

Wow , yeah , and we

9:25

could go deep and we can go in so many

9:27

directions . Right with this .

9:29

Yeah , I like the direction you took

9:31

in the form you said

9:34

because

9:36

there's important events , yes

9:38

, and I think it's

9:40

. In the society today

9:43

, it's important for

9:45

people to understand each other's humanity

9:47

and journeys , and you

9:49

know a lot of people like , if they're watching them , I'll

9:51

be like , oh , here's two

9:53

wild guys who look privileged

9:55

, who've always eaten

9:57

from a silver spoon and

10:00

who you know , might not

10:02

really understand what

10:04

you know , challenges and trauma , and

10:07

you know that journey

10:09

looks like . And so

10:11

you know I think part of the podcast

10:14

is showing it's like no , there's

10:16

depth to all our journeys . We all have

10:18

our trauma , and so

10:20

you know .

10:21

I'd love to hear a little bit yeah

10:23

, and when I have chills there's a , there's

10:25

a little bit of oh

10:29

boy . Indeed , there's common

10:31

ematogy in everything we're going through

10:33

. I believe Whatever

10:35

our when we're from and racial

10:38

differences or sexual differences and

10:40

whatnot , I think the seed

10:42

of where our

10:45

traumas and conditionings and patterns are

10:47

coming from are very similar . It's

10:50

always an inside job , right ? Yeah , in

10:53

mine , like you said , began very

10:56

young age . I'm

10:59

not special in any way , right

11:02

. I mean , we

11:04

all go through our own journey , yeah

11:06

, and some have gone through stuff

11:09

that are , I

11:11

guess we can qualify , much worse than me , but

11:14

that's my journey . So

11:17

mine started with a

11:19

very dysfunctional family . You

11:22

know well parents who

11:24

gets divorced , and then the fight

11:26

, truly the fight in

11:29

court for many , many years around that and being

11:31

stuck between a rock and a hard place , dysfunctional

11:37

families and their own relationships and

11:40

how they interact with each

11:42

other . Then

11:45

my own difficulties growing up

11:47

and being this

11:50

kid who , yeah

11:53

, goes through psychological abuse

11:55

, physical abuse and that

11:59

leaves imprints

12:01

on you . I guess we can say right .

12:04

Was there bullying in there as well , like

12:08

we're talking about growing up and physical

12:10

abuse , like and I was bullied

12:12

when I was a kid , so I was curious

12:14

if that was also part of that .

12:17

Yeah for sure , bullying was part of it , Mainly

12:20

the beat ups from the parents .

12:23

Yeah , yeah , the name of the rebellion

12:26

.

12:27

Yeah , my mom

12:29

was also going through her own journey , suffering

12:31

from a little bit of psychological

12:34

difficulties

12:36

. I guess , we can put it this way yeah

12:41

. I wanted to go .

12:43

No , you don't have to go into everything , but I

12:45

think that's you know , those are

12:47

important things to

12:49

just realize and to have

12:51

that perspective now of you

12:54

know , even realizing that your mom was going through

12:56

her own things , that you know

12:58

the parents go through their own things , and

13:01

you touched on that previously . You

13:04

know there's also the generational trauma as

13:06

well , and especially

13:09

if there's immigration and how

13:11

I've intubated yeah , there's

13:13

, you know , obviously , as you may

13:16

imagine , there's stuff in there as well . Yeah

13:19

so .

13:21

And you said it well our own parents

13:23

. They have their own journey . So

13:26

who are we to blame them ? Or point the

13:28

finger , or yeah

13:31

. Rub it in their face , sort of speak

13:33

.

13:34

I think it's part of growing up too

13:36

is understanding

13:39

that you know they had their own journeys

13:41

. I think as children you

13:44

tend to put

13:46

your parents on pedestals and have really

13:48

high expectations because they're your

13:50

parents and

13:53

you know . As you get older

13:55

you realize oh well , they

13:58

were humans like me

14:00

, with their faults and

14:02

they made mistakes and they did the

14:04

best they could with the tools they had .

14:06

Absolutely . My dad always

14:08

told me there was no book to raise a kid . Yeah

14:11

, indeed .

14:12

No . I don't know , there's

14:15

funny people who've tried to

14:17

write books . I

14:20

think , especially in the US with all the self-help

14:23

books , there's plenty of that , but

14:25

ultimately there's really no book

14:27

. As you know , your

14:30

dad was saying , to raise a kid it's

14:33

a hard job and you know you don't get

14:35

to do it too many times too in your lifetime

14:37

. I mean , you know

14:39

, even if you have a lot of kids

14:42

, it's still , you know , very

14:44

few kids in the

14:46

environment , you know . And

14:49

so what are you exposed to ? Well

14:51

, your own growth .

14:53

So true , there's such a blessing for

14:55

that and the ray of joy that they bring

14:57

, for sure , but then also the

15:00

opportunities that they give

15:02

us to reflect

15:05

what's hiding

15:08

inside that needs some healing

15:10

or transformation . We're exposed

15:12

to that times of thousand with

15:14

kids .

15:18

So you've had this difficult youth

15:21

and you entered the

15:24

workplace . How

15:28

did that play out ? Because

15:34

you're built on that Basically . You

15:36

have challenges and where

15:39

did you go from there ?

15:42

I was very biased . I was a typical kid

15:44

that gets to

15:46

be , yes , bring up in a difficult

15:49

family dynamic , but also a

15:51

very privileged one . My family was

15:53

in business for 45 years a very successful

15:55

business , millionaires and

15:58

I had this very I

16:03

was about to say , weird I don't know if it's weird or natural

16:05

when you're unconscious of it conception

16:08

that my life fast

16:10

and my

16:12

career , work wise , was pretty

16:15

linear . I mean , I was going

16:17

to get into the workforce

16:19

, take over the family business and

16:22

run my life as a pretty

16:24

successful entrepreneur and have

16:26

all these material belongings

16:28

and pretty

16:31

much replicate what I've always

16:33

seen from my granddad

16:35

. That was my vision

16:38

of how my career was

16:40

going to evolve and

16:42

it's crew me up big time Because

16:46

I was on this treadmill of always

16:49

trying to grab

16:52

that or go for this . I've never got to

16:54

take over the family business . It went

16:56

bankrupt , which

16:58

is interesting because I went bankrupt later in my life

17:00

but

17:03

then I was still on that treadmill

17:06

of trying to replicate exactly

17:09

the same thing . And

17:11

so I became a job hopper , was

17:14

always going for the salaries

17:16

and the positions and things

17:19

like that .

17:22

Were you considering yourself spiritual

17:25

at the time ? It doesn't sound like

17:27

you're . I mean we're all spiritual

17:29

beings , but where you're connected

17:32

with that spiritual side at all , it doesn't

17:34

sound like you're at all .

17:35

No , you're right , there is

17:37

no clue of awakening at that point . I

17:40

was just rolling along

17:42

the . I can

17:45

call it just really

17:48

life , I think maybe this is how we can call

17:50

it .

17:52

Yeah , and so when did you actually

17:55

, when did it come to a head ?

17:57

Hmm , it

18:01

is my belief

18:04

or observation

18:06

that there's two pathways where

18:09

one out of this mold to

18:12

, either by the grace of God or

18:15

through enough suffering , that you

18:17

say , okay , enough is enough . I gotta

18:20

do something here . And

18:23

mine was a ladder . Yeah

18:26

, after

18:28

multiple failed

18:30

relationships , after multiple failed

18:33

attempts at trying to create

18:35

this working life

18:38

for myself and

18:40

keep on going back to the beginning

18:44

and going

18:46

after it again and again and over and over again

18:48

. At one point I was enough

18:51

. I was tired of being tired

18:53

. I was suffering . Yeah

18:56

, I wanted to transform that . I wanted to

18:58

grow out of it .

19:00

Yeah , why do you think I mean

19:03

I'm assuming you've seen other people

19:05

going through that , like I've had many

19:07

other guests on

19:09

the podcast going through similar

19:11

experiences and , as you were

19:13

saying at the beginning , you're not special

19:15

but the fact that you went through those experiences

19:18

makes you kind of educated in

19:20

those journeys to

19:23

help others . Why

19:25

do you think we keep getting

19:28

trapped in

19:30

those patterns ?

19:35

They're not conscious enough . Simply

19:38

, I think , eh

19:41

, we're not conscious enough and kind of addicted

19:43

to it , form

19:46

of addiction , I believe . I

19:48

know that's what I've been going through . I know

19:50

it viscerally Because

19:54

we're not seeing things clearly

19:56

. We're

19:59

going after those hedonistic

20:02

pleasure of those external validations

20:04

, because that's what brings us alive

20:07

inside . There's

20:09

addiction roots in this that are very

20:12

clear .

20:16

And so you .

20:17

Does that ?

20:17

resonate yeah , yeah , oh , yeah

20:19

, yeah . No , it resonates with

20:22

me and with the

20:24

other guests I've had on the show

20:26

. So

20:29

one guest I

20:32

had yesterday was talking about

20:34

the fact that we're living

20:36

in

20:38

the darkness but we have the synthetic

20:41

lights Make

20:43

it seem

20:45

like we're not in the darkness , but

20:48

we're shrouded in fake

20:50

light and we

20:53

move forward this

20:55

way , thinking that's the way , and

21:00

it's challenging , and you see people

21:02

just going through that over and over again

21:04

, but everybody's

21:06

at different points in their journey too , and

21:10

the question to you

21:12

would be like how could you have had that

21:15

enlightenment sooner without

21:17

the struggle , or do you feel

21:20

like you needed the struggle to get

21:22

there ?

21:23

Yeah , that's a good question

21:25

. I don't know . I don't know and I don't

21:27

bother asking because

21:29

it is what it is and I've

21:32

grown

21:35

enough in the process to

21:37

honor and respect

21:39

my own path and

21:42

every step

21:44

that it includes , even now

21:47

. Yeah

21:50

, so I truly , I'm

21:53

grateful basically for all

21:56

of those obstacles and

21:58

sufferings

22:00

, because they're

22:03

my diamond , they were my diamond . And

22:06

until I had embodied

22:08

to shine them and buff them and work with them . They

22:12

were still in the ignition for

22:14

it all .

22:16

I love that . Honoring the struggles

22:18

and accepting them

22:20

that's

22:22

an important part of the journey

22:26

, and not trying to erase them either

22:33

.

22:33

And when you're on this journey , it always

22:35

starts intellectually . We try

22:37

to rationalize and understand

22:39

and make sense of

22:41

things . That's how we're wired to the

22:43

scene At the beginning . I

22:46

didn't understand that when

22:49

I was reading Tolle and he said I'm

22:51

paraphrasing but accept everything

22:54

that comes your way , as if you have chosen it

22:56

. What is he talking

22:58

about ? I

23:00

don't want this , but

23:05

indeed I had chosen

23:07

it . And we

23:09

can go metaphysical on this one , or very

23:11

practical , from life

23:14

to life and soul journeys , or

23:16

even through my

23:18

own doings in this life . I

23:22

was manufacturing the

23:24

life I was living for myself . I was planting

23:26

seed of karma as I was reacting

23:30

. That stuff out

23:33

.

23:34

You're probably hurting people around you in the process as well

23:36

. Absolutely

23:38

.

23:38

That happens , you don't get married because

23:42

you intend to get divorced , but

23:52

it came clear to me that

23:54

this wasn't a good relationship

23:57

to begin . And

24:01

on hindsight yeah , hindsight For

24:05

sure I did hurt my

24:07

first wife in so many ways and

24:10

I'm sorry for this

24:12

, but it was

24:14

also part of the journey for both of us

24:16

.

24:20

I went through a divorce as well and

24:22

I met

24:25

my current wife after

24:28

the divorce and we're married

24:30

. But

24:34

we couldn't have met each other

24:36

earlier in life because

24:38

we were different people and

24:40

so we met each other at the right time

24:42

and from your story you're

24:46

all experienced your first marriage and

24:48

everything shaped you to be the person

24:50

you were when you met your wife .

24:54

So true , I can so much resonate with

24:56

that . That

24:58

touches a special place in my

25:00

heart . I

25:03

was talking with a friend last week on

25:06

this very specific topic

25:08

of being

25:13

given or receiving what

25:15

you need exactly

25:18

when you're ready for it . And

25:21

if it's not that , it seems like it's

25:23

us blocking

25:26

those experiences or people

25:28

coming our way because

25:32

we're not open enough

25:34

.

25:36

I mean that's a really important message because

25:39

in the current society

25:41

, we want everything now

25:43

, now , now . So you

25:46

know , like if you want the enlightenment

25:48

now , I need to get enlightened

25:50

. I'm 20 , I just

25:53

started , you know , working . I'm a little

25:55

challenged with my workplace

25:57

. I need to be enlightened right

25:59

now , mike . It's

26:02

going to take a while . I mean , the hardships

26:04

are part of the journey

26:06

and you know the pain is

26:09

, you know is there and

26:12

you learn from it .

26:13

Yeah , and it's

26:16

going to be uncomfortable , it's going to be a little painful

26:18

. You know it's not going to be

26:21

a breeze . We're

26:23

not sightstepping lizards here .

26:27

I'm so feel I

26:29

like that sightstepping lizards . So

26:32

you know , when you came to that point

26:35

and you realize

26:37

you wanted to turn things around , what

26:40

are some of those tools that

26:42

were really useful in

26:44

your journey that could help others

26:46

who

26:49

are looking for tools .

26:53

That's a beautiful question . It

26:56

was an evolution for me and I

26:59

can see the beauty

27:01

in all of the steps , but , as

27:04

everything where you're peeling the

27:06

onion sometimes , so it's not done

27:09

. It was an evolution and a

27:11

shift in consciousness and it

27:13

started very pragmatically

27:15

for me Science

27:18

, base

27:20

study of psychological

27:22

stuff and certifications

27:24

and psychologists

27:27

that could help me and all

27:29

that realm , and you know , reading

27:32

hundreds of books and self growth

27:34

and whatnot , and

27:36

they were helpful and

27:39

at a certain point I said , well

27:41

, I'm ready for something new . So I

27:43

got into stoicism . What

27:48

a beautiful teacher , great mentor

27:50

. I worked for a couple of years with him , a

27:54

stoic author and psychologist

27:56

, and

28:00

I grew that you know

28:02

. It came to a point where I got

28:04

the beauty out of the text and the study

28:06

and the teachings from my

28:08

mentor , but I was ready for something

28:11

deeper

28:13

. There was always this longing within

28:16

to go at the root

28:19

and go deeper

28:21

. That's where the spirituality

28:23

came into the picture .

28:25

And so , as you were going through those different

28:29

phases , how

28:33

like were there like nuggets in

28:35

there that you picked up , that you carried

28:37

forward with you , and

28:39

like are there some you can share ?

28:42

Yeah , absolutely

28:44

. I

28:48

mean , that would be so much . Just

28:51

, I'm thinking about the last conversation

28:53

Donald and I had

28:55

my stoic coach

28:58

. Donald is the pendant

29:00

of Ryan Holiday , donald Robertson . I

29:02

highly encourage everyone to read

29:04

his stuff and follow him . He's a great

29:06

stoic man . We

29:10

were having our last session because he

29:12

was stopping his practice . He was too busy with his books

29:15

and speaking engagements and

29:18

he said how can you sum up our

29:20

work together ? And

29:25

Donald really helped me with my ruminative

29:28

mind and I know that was very strong for

29:30

me . There's

29:33

something in that I was always talking . That

29:38

was one

29:41

of the one of the biggest takeaways

29:43

and tools that I've picked up from stoicism

29:46

into take

29:49

a step back and

29:52

just pause before

29:55

reacting . Okay

29:59

, I'll use Victor Frenkel to

30:01

put this in an analogy

30:03

that makes sense . Not an analogy , but here's

30:08

a man that went through horrible things

30:10

the Holocaust and was a prisoner in a camp

30:13

and whatnot . There

30:15

is strong stoicism roots

30:18

in his teachings

30:20

, in my perspective , when

30:23

he talks about stimulus

30:25

and response . Things

30:28

happen in our life , right , whether it's situation

30:30

or people . There's a stimulus

30:32

, something is happening and

30:34

we're going to have a response . That's inevitable

30:37

, but there's

30:39

a gap in between . Might

30:42

be small , might be big , but there's a gap and

30:44

however we choose to

30:48

be in that gap

30:50

will dictate the

30:52

response . And

30:55

that's what I got the most from , I'd

30:57

say , all of the psychology books and

31:00

the certifications in my work with Donald

31:03

this framework

31:05

of really

31:07

pausing and

31:10

choosing our response to

31:12

any events , obstacles

31:14

, difficulties and

31:17

in my life , in our lives , yeah

31:19

, gives you control .

31:20

Yeah

31:22

, that's interesting .

31:27

Gives you control .

31:30

Because it's almost like regaining control

31:32

and

31:34

because a lot of time people feel more like

31:36

victims of a

31:39

situation that can happen and

31:43

with that gap , it's like

31:45

there's a gap here you can

31:48

work with and you can

31:50

make decisions and you do have

31:52

options . So true .

31:55

Yeah , we can either be a victim in life or a

31:57

creator , either

31:59

, or yeah , my

32:02

friend David Emerald taught me that you

32:05

know this great book , the

32:08

Empowerment Dynamic . Ted

32:10

, he lives in Seattle actually , maybe

32:13

he actually connects you guys .

32:14

There you go . Yeah , it'd be great , I

32:17

have him on the show .

32:18

Yeah , that's the whole premise of his work

32:20

. He's a very beautiful man

32:22

, a deep , spiritual man , and that's

32:25

his story in the book , in

32:27

a form of a story , literally

32:29

. But that's the shift

32:32

he made and that's the shift he's inviting all

32:34

of us to do From the

32:36

creator standpoint or mindset to

32:39

a victim biggie part of the mindset

32:41

or stance to your creator , one

32:43

when you can choose

32:46

to

32:48

be who you truly are and who you

32:50

which

32:52

is love .

32:55

And I don't think being a creator doesn't mean you

32:57

haven't suffered or you haven't

32:59

been impacted

33:02

by other people's wrongdoing and

33:04

that they , you know

33:06

, hasn't been like terrible acts that might

33:08

have been committed against you . I

33:11

think it's , you know , regaining control

33:13

of the narrative and

33:15

your story and

33:17

how you want to move forward . Right

33:20

.

33:21

Absolutely . Yeah , it's not easy

33:23

. There's a lot of resilience , a

33:25

lot of in-depth exploration

33:27

. Yeah for sure they were capable

33:30

, For sure .

33:32

So then , at

33:35

that time you were working with your

33:37

teacher and

33:40

then you said then you encountered

33:42

spirituality , or you

33:45

know , I'm paraphrasing that . But like how

33:47

did that first meeting go ?

33:55

You're bringing me back . You're bringing me back .

33:59

What's the kernel of this ?

34:04

There's a specific moment that I recall it

34:07

was already brewing within me , because

34:09

I could feel this you know longing

34:12

for something else and it was already

34:14

very curious and

34:16

reading a lot of spiritual books and trying

34:19

a lot of things , the

34:21

spiritual spectrum , if we can call it like that

34:23

.

34:23

Yeah , I called it other things

34:26

before . I was actually spiritual . I was like

34:28

, what's all that spiritual BS ? That's what I called

34:31

it . Now I'm like , oh my God

34:33

, it's real .

34:34

Yeah , yeah . But

34:39

there's an encounter with

34:41

a man that really , yeah

34:47

, invited me to take a picture

34:49

of a seat in

34:54

my own spirituality and the

34:58

path going forward . He's

35:02

my master , he's my teacher , Alan Cohen

35:04

, great friend of Rundas . I

35:06

met with him through a coaching

35:10

group session . I

35:13

remember after this setting I

35:15

didn't have the chance to interact with him

35:17

at that point . There

35:20

was so much peace and love and

35:22

the needing from him . It

35:25

was strong to me , it was so compelling that

35:27

I wanted to be close

35:30

to him in some way .

35:31

Yeah , yeah , yeah .

35:34

It's like the Guru Master

35:36

, not Guru and Menti

35:38

or however we call it , relationship . I

35:41

don't know . I don't have a Guru . I've never been to India . I

35:44

can probably feel

35:46

the same thing , and

35:49

that was a start for me of

35:51

peeling the onion

35:53

to its core .

35:56

Yeah , it just took me

35:58

back to . Actually . This morning

36:00

I was listening to a Christian desk

36:02

and he's

36:05

on Spotify . There's a great book

36:07

he has that's freely available to all

36:09

, called the Pilgrims of the Heart , and

36:12

he recounts his journey meeting

36:15

Ram Dass for the first time and then going

36:17

to India with Ram Dass to meet

36:19

Mahariji . The

36:23

way he described his first encounter

36:26

was like just the love that was emanating

36:29

from the

36:33

Guru and

36:36

how he was drawn to that . Just like

36:38

you were , you know , just like

36:40

you were explaining , you

36:43

know , and that love , you know . You

36:45

talk about journey from love to love when you

36:47

were describing your own personal journey

36:49

. But that's , you know , that's a big deal

36:51

and it's hard to really

36:54

understand . I

36:56

think , if , how

36:58

does that love feel different from any

37:01

other loves you felt ? Can

37:03

you even describe it ? No

37:05

, it's , you

37:08

know . Sometimes , I think , with psychedelic

37:10

experiences , you can really get into a state

37:12

where like , oh my God , that really transcends

37:14

me and I really understand the full

37:16

spectrum of love .

37:20

So I think this is the perfect setting to share

37:23

this story . Yeah , thanks

37:25

a lot . Last week , before

37:28

a show , we were talking about it , you

37:31

asked me how are you coming into the show ? And I said , well

37:33

, since last week there was something that happened that

37:35

really brought another layer

37:37

of peace and love

37:39

within , and

37:43

for me lately there's been . You

37:48

know , I get life gets busy sometimes

37:50

, and especially the family , and I

37:53

get to sit down . You know , when the

37:55

day was winding down and kids were to sleep and

37:57

I could feel this . I

38:01

don't know if I can render justice to the feeling , but sometimes

38:06

I caught myself saying you know

38:08

, god or

38:10

universe , life , divine

38:13

, whatever you want to call it , I

38:16

feel distant from you . I haven't , I

38:19

haven't connected with you . So it seems

38:21

, today as much , and

38:25

one experiences after the other brought

38:29

me closer and closer and closer . I think

38:31

last week , until

38:34

this common in point , where I

38:37

had a beautiful conversation with a dear friend of mine

38:39

and he went really deep and

38:41

opened up and he's going through his

38:43

own stuff you know , lost his wife to cancer

38:46

and then

38:49

he started to talk about his own

38:51

lessons and he said one

38:53

phrase about

38:56

God and I just started weeping

38:58

like a baby because

39:01

I could feel so much love inside

39:03

.

39:05

Like you said , it was so so transcendent

39:08

.

39:09

I couldn't control myself . It was too much . I

39:13

was like , yeah , so I guess

39:15

that's the . That's as close as I can get

39:18

to framing . Yeah

39:21

, the love you're talking about .

39:22

Yeah , oh , and it's a great way

39:25

to frame it . I mean , it's like if you hear

39:27

others who've experienced that describing

39:30

it , they didn't use different words , but they'll

39:32

be able to somehow capture that energy

39:34

, and

39:37

it sounded like it was a little bit of

39:39

a release too for you as

39:44

well . Especially

39:46

since , you know , as you said , we

39:48

get busy . We

39:51

live in a society . We

39:53

live in a society that has a

39:55

rhythm , that has rules

39:58

that

40:00

you know has a way

40:02

about it and we're not hermits on

40:05

top of a mountain . So you know

40:07

, and if you have a family , you

40:09

have children that are part

40:11

of the society and you

40:14

know , unless you're homeschooling them , they

40:17

have to go to school has

40:19

its own rhythm . So

40:22

you can't completely ignore that rhythm , but

40:24

at the same time it can

40:26

be intense because I don't know if

40:29

it was necessarily it's the best rhythm

40:31

for human . I mean , I know it's not

40:33

.

40:37

That's so beautiful what you just said , because we don't

40:39

, like

40:42

you said

40:46

, we don't need to be hermits

40:49

, you know , hiding in the mountains

40:51

to growl ourselves

40:53

. It appears

40:55

to me now that the best place

40:57

to do it is right here

41:00

, in the midst of all

41:02

of our activities and daily living

41:05

and commuting

41:07

with other people . It's

41:11

much more easier to get your

41:15

scrap coming up , yourself

41:18

coming up , when you're interacting

41:20

in this setting . What

41:23

a beautiful opportunity , after all , to heal

41:27

and grow and transform what

41:29

needs to be transformed for yourself .

41:32

Yeah , yeah .

41:34

I mean we're social animals .

41:38

Yeah , I mean we are social

41:40

animals . We

41:42

need that human connections and

41:45

I think every once

41:47

in a while . I mean there was that

41:49

great movie , I think

41:51

it was called Get Into the Wild , where

41:54

there's this young man who

41:56

wants to go to Alaska and

42:00

to be by himself in Alaska , and

42:03

so the whole movie follows him on that journey

42:05

of him going to Alaska to just

42:07

be by himself and being in the wild

42:09

, because he believes that's where he'll

42:11

find peace . That's a while and

42:16

they found his journal years

42:18

later and the movie

42:21

is based on his journal . Wow

42:23

, okay , but the

42:25

main lesson of the movie is

42:27

that really , where he felt , when he

42:29

felt the most alive was in

42:31

his journey , when he was encountering all those people

42:33

and

42:38

just seeing the diversity exchanging

42:40

their stories and his story . And

42:44

then when he found himself finally

42:46

in the wild I'm gonna spoil it for everyone

42:48

, so just people skip that

42:51

if you haven't seen the movie . He

42:54

gets stuck there . He ends up eating

42:56

bad berries and they think that's what

42:59

killed him . And

43:01

then the

43:05

river that he crossed to make

43:07

it where he went was like 10

43:09

times the size when

43:11

he was getting sick , so he couldn't actually head

43:13

back . Terrible story . But

43:17

he kept on writing in his journal

43:19

before he died

43:22

, of course . And so they were

43:24

able to pull that together

43:26

. But there's that . And

43:28

then he also reminded me of the autobiography

43:30

of a yogi , where

43:33

he goes and travels to

43:35

the mountains in order to , and then

43:37

he realizes , hey , my guru was right down the

43:39

street . But

43:42

, you need those journeys . You need those journeys

43:44

. You need to go to the mountain . You need to

43:46

go to mountain to realize oh

43:49

, it was here all along .

43:53

You have to experience it , yeah

43:55

, so yeah , it

43:58

reminds me of so

44:02

many things . David

44:05

Brooks , the columnist and writer

44:07

, wrote about this in

44:09

his own way , but the

44:13

analogy that he used was brilliant

44:15

for me . He

44:17

talks about the second mountain , where

44:20

you climb your first peak and

44:23

at the top of that peak he realized well

44:25

, that's not it , there's more to it . And

44:28

then you got to go down through the valleys and

44:30

going down before going

44:32

up again , and it's on that

44:35

second peak that you find something much

44:37

more richer , much more peaceful

44:40

, joyful , lovable .

44:42

Yeah , I love that second mountain

44:44

, that's great , and the valleys and

44:47

that's a beautiful analogy . It's

44:49

funny . I've been using the second mountain

44:51

analogy for a different

44:53

thing , which is the

44:55

integration time after a psychedelic

44:58

experience . Interesting Because

45:01

a lot of time the

45:03

challenge with really intense

45:05

experiences , whether

45:07

it's a psychedelic experience

45:10

or like a near-death experience , or

45:13

even the experience you had with your friend last

45:15

week where he shared some

45:18

words about God and the love

45:20

, and those

45:23

experiences are so intense that

45:26

you forget sometimes to realize

45:28

you have to

45:30

integrate that lesson in

45:32

your life . And

45:35

that is another mountain in and of

45:37

itself . And

45:42

so , while the experience itself provides

45:44

some teaching , integrating the teachings

45:47

is a lot of work and it's

45:50

not always easy , especially if

45:52

you're trying to change how

45:55

your life is and

45:57

shape it differently , which you

45:59

clearly did in your journey . You had

46:02

very intentional approaches to

46:04

how you went about it .

46:06

That's beautiful and that's such

46:09

an important reminder for everyone on

46:11

the journey too right ? Because , like you

46:13

said at the very beginning , we often

46:15

try to rush through it and

46:18

we want it now .

46:20

Yeah , yeah , that's not how it's meant

46:22

to think in we're

46:24

wired more and more to want it . Now it's

46:28

true , it's like . And now

46:30

with AI , it's like . I kind of it even

46:32

faster . I

46:36

hope that AI

46:39

can help free

46:41

up some time so

46:45

we can do maybe something

46:47

slower , but

46:50

that's how you use it right . It's like

46:52

if you try to use

46:54

it to stuff more in your busy day .

47:00

And it's when we slow down , typically

47:04

, that the major shifts happen .

47:07

Yeah , so back

47:09

to your spirituality . I mean , we're still in this

47:11

spiritual discussion . What

47:14

are you Go ahead ?

47:17

I'll go a little bit further on that one because it's

47:19

important . I think I'll

47:22

link it to where I think you wanted to go . We'll see . But

47:26

remember , at one point I

47:32

think I had to learn to slow down and

47:34

I wasn't conscious yet

47:38

of that shift

47:40

that needed to happen .

47:41

Yeah .

47:42

And life did care for that for me . I

47:45

remember being in California for a business

47:48

trip and I had gone for almost

47:50

two weeks . It was a very intense

47:53

one in terms of engagements

47:55

and I was

47:57

still back then in the mood of self-actualizing

48:00

and working out and doing all of my practices

48:02

and very rigorous and self-disciplined

48:05

A little bit too much , quite

48:08

frankly and

48:11

I had this breakdown . They

48:14

thought I was having a heart attack at one point in

48:16

a meeting with CEOs

48:18

and were tan around the

48:20

table I'm shutting

48:23

down pain in my left

48:25

arm , in my heart , oh

48:27

wow . And couldn't speak anymore

48:30

, couldn't walk . I was

48:32

sure I was having a heart attack , but it was my body

48:34

actually teaching me the lesson

48:36

that I was not conscious enough

48:38

to welcome in . And

48:46

, yeah , I think , recognizing

48:49

that it's not about rushing

48:52

through the process , welcoming

48:55

every step of it , being

48:57

patient , internalizing it

49:00

, like you were talking about , that's

49:02

the crux of it .

49:04

I love this . This

49:07

is a word you said which is like maybe

49:09

you were doing too much with

49:12

your routine and everything . When

49:20

do you know it's too much ? I

49:23

mean , it's a hard question to answer , but

49:25

it's like

49:27

I see it all the time People

49:31

adding layers upon layers of improvements

49:33

. Yes , if

49:37

you're into biohacking , people

49:40

will add layers and layers of hacks

49:42

to improve

49:44

yourself beyond human potential

49:46

. I'm like well , first try to

49:49

reach your human potential , but

49:53

how do you guide people

49:56

or help people

49:58

that are adding

50:01

too much to their plate , and what is your

50:03

approach Like ? If somebody is looking

50:05

for help and they come to you , how would you

50:07

approach that ?

50:10

It's a beautiful one . There

50:19

needs to be a shift in what

50:23

you truly want . It

50:27

seems trivial , but if

50:34

you are hoping to

50:37

always excel and outperform

50:39

and be in this rabbit

50:42

hole of doing and doing , and doing and doing

50:44

to reach your full potential

50:47

, you're

50:51

like the athlete who wants to be the best in its

50:54

sports . You're gonna

50:57

push hard and you're gonna go through

50:59

all the steps and the

51:01

pain to get there . I

51:05

understand that , but I think even athletes have

51:07

a deeper meaning

51:10

to it all . That doesn't have

51:12

to do with the trophy or the medal

51:15

or the win . I think

51:18

it's about changing the

51:20

perspective for yourself in

51:22

terms of what you truly want and

51:26

what happened for me as well . I

51:30

don't want to be this super

51:33

executive who's top

51:36

shape and also very highly

51:38

spiritual and hurting a lot of money

51:40

and doing all that . That

51:43

wasn't important anymore . All I wanted was

51:45

peace . That was this

51:48

recognition or longing for something

51:51

deeper . That

51:53

is not wordly

52:00

I'm coming back to this word

52:03

, but yeah

52:05

.

52:07

Do you think some of those things

52:09

are mutually

52:11

exclusive ? Or , after

52:14

now , having been more

52:16

on your spiritual

52:18

journey , you're

52:21

kind of looking back at those situations

52:23

where , okay , I'm a different person

52:25

now , I'm

52:28

more equipped to maybe approach

52:31

some of the situations like corporate

52:35

intensity , or are

52:38

they mutually exclusive ?

52:41

I can

52:45

only speak . For me , they're not important anymore , but

52:48

I don't think they are mutually exclusive

52:51

. It is my

52:53

recognition , though , that one

52:58

will lead you to the other , potentially

53:00

in a much more ease

53:03

or easy . You understand

53:06

what I mean . Yeah , this

53:10

spirituality will lead you to the success

53:14

in whatever shape or form . You might frame

53:18

it for yourself in a much more easier

53:20

way , much

53:22

more flowing .

53:25

The gap you

53:27

mentioned too . It's a

53:29

very useful tool working with that gap

53:32

, especially

53:34

in corporate settings . Setting

53:37

your boundaries is another important

53:39

one , I believe , and

53:41

then knowing when to

53:44

take care of yourself , which

53:47

all these are lessons that you touched

53:50

on in

53:52

the journey , I think our great tools

53:54

and again incorporate

53:56

this huge currents , these

53:58

huge under toes and

54:01

strong waves . It's

54:04

like you need to surfboard and you

54:06

need to be good at surfing , otherwise

54:10

you're going to get caught in those currents , it

54:12

seems

54:17

like , the currents are the strongest at the

54:19

beginning .

54:20

Once you plus them , it's much

54:23

more easier .

54:25

Yeah , unless you're really

54:27

good at swimming in the currents , but eventually

54:30

I think you get tired and

54:32

you have a heart attack . It's

54:36

like your

54:38

person

54:40

can only take so much intensity

54:44

. I've talked to a lot of others on the

54:46

show athletes

54:48

, people who used to be athletes

54:50

that really pushed themselves to be at

54:52

their top . They

54:54

get to the top and they're also like now

54:57

what ?

54:57

What is life I've pushed

55:00

?

55:00

myself really hard and I'm like

55:02

where do I go from here ?

55:04

Yeah , that's so beautiful when we get

55:06

to the recognition that there's no difference

55:08

between business or any

55:10

endeavor that we go after in

55:13

life . It's all

55:15

life in the background

55:17

that

55:19

changes our approach

55:23

to it all . As

55:26

a matter of fact , I can recall , maybe , some

55:29

situations as an executive

55:31

where they were highly spiritual

55:34

after all . Even

55:37

in that setting , I

55:39

was given so many opportunities to

55:43

grow spiritually . If

55:47

we welcome it from those

55:50

lands . It's another ballpark

55:52

, in my opinion .

55:53

Yeah , you don't think about the workplace

55:56

, though , as conductive for that , but

55:58

it is and it can be . It

56:05

goes back to

56:08

how you react to it

56:10

and the creator versus the

56:13

victim . It's

56:16

easy to become a victim

56:18

of your environment . It's

56:20

very easy , especially

56:22

with strong environments that are

56:24

meant to be systems

56:27

and corporations are meant to

56:30

be systems that scale up so

56:33

that you can do more with

56:36

the same quality and

56:39

put out services of products

56:42

and scale that ability . It's

56:44

a system . The design

56:49

of a system is to be a current for

56:52

each of the parts in the system . They

56:54

behave a certain way or as best as

56:56

they can . How do you

56:58

work within a system

57:00

and then retain

57:03

your own creator

57:06

aspect versus being just

57:08

a victim ?

57:10

Yeah , it's all my gosh . Perhaps

57:14

the misconception we have about work is

57:16

we go at it

57:18

to get something . Yeah

57:22

, work is about serving , not

57:24

about getting . I know

57:29

that's been a true peaceful recognition

57:37

for me when

57:39

I'm growing . Finally , I might have to

57:43

step into a corporate world

57:45

a little bit more going

57:47

forward , but

57:49

that's okay because

57:52

of how I approach

57:54

it now in

57:57

this essence

58:00

, if

58:04

we could all go at work with

58:07

the intention of serving our

58:10

clients , our company , our peers

58:13

, whomever we interact

58:15

with , and

58:18

the victim mindset

58:21

that you're talking about wouldn't be

58:23

as much present , because if you're

58:25

serving , you've got to be a creator .

58:28

I love that . Serving is a

58:30

very

58:36

strong theme . When did serving enter

58:39

your life ? When did you have that realization

58:41

that you wanted

58:43

to be of service ?

58:52

It came towards the end

58:56

of my self-career , I

58:59

was coaching a lot . It

59:02

was obvious that I wasn't coaching

59:04

self-perceive but the

59:07

human being behind

59:09

the role . I was

59:12

in the midst of my own

59:14

path . I was growing myself and making

59:17

all of the new connections . It

59:23

became very apparent

59:26

that the second

59:28

mountain was about serving with

59:31

my gifts and what I had to offer .

59:36

That was it Today

59:40

. How do you serve

59:42

people ?

59:45

Thank you for the beautiful question . It's simple

59:49

. It's

59:53

not easy work , one

59:55

would say , but potentially I

59:59

was chatting with my coach , Alan , and

1:00:01

we were laughing about this because I

1:00:03

was like Alan , a

1:00:06

very simple guy when it comes to being

1:00:09

a person

1:00:11

, but also a coach . I'm

1:00:13

not the one who gives

1:00:15

a bunch of techniques and I don't

1:00:18

enter into quantum physics and

1:00:20

neuroscience

1:00:22

and whatnot . I just work at the root . You

1:00:27

have emotions and thoughts that are ruining

1:00:30

your life because of past

1:00:32

experiences and patterns and

1:00:34

traumas . If

1:00:36

we could just learn to work with that , to

1:00:39

deepen our consciousness , our

1:00:42

spirituality , so

1:00:44

that we feel more joy and happiness

1:00:46

and inner peace . That's

1:00:48

it . That's how

1:00:50

I try to help people and the clients

1:00:53

I work with . Hands

1:00:55

are very simple , yet a

1:00:58

very in-depth exploration .

1:01:01

What did he answer to that

1:01:04

? What was his answer ? He ?

1:01:05

started laughing .

1:01:13

I can totally relate to what you just said

1:01:16

, because there's

1:01:19

a lot of coaches really

1:01:21

good coaches out there that have

1:01:24

a lot of certifications , that have

1:01:26

a lot of techniques to share

1:01:28

. They're

1:01:31

really good at dropping quotes and

1:01:34

names . It's really impressive

1:01:36

, it's intimidating

1:01:39

, and they're very helpful and they do great work

1:01:43

. There's

1:01:46

many ways to help with simple

1:01:48

approaches , with

1:01:51

just a few things , just a few tricks

1:01:53

. It doesn't have to be complicated

1:01:59

. Breathwork is a good example . I

1:02:01

was talking about it with another guest

1:02:04

, steven

1:02:06

Gray , who wrote Habs . Psychedelics

1:02:08

can change the world Somehow

1:02:16

. We were talking about breathwork , but the

1:02:18

thing is there's a lot of complex

1:02:20

breathwork you can do

1:02:22

. I'm going to drop some names here again , but

1:02:24

if you read Stan Grof , he'll

1:02:27

talk about all the breathwork he's done

1:02:29

and all the different techniques that can get you

1:02:31

in an entheogenic state . Then

1:02:34

the simple

1:02:36

thing is you can

1:02:39

just feel your breath , just

1:02:41

be aware of it , just

1:02:43

feel it move

1:02:48

through your system . You don't need

1:02:50

any fancy techniques , but

1:02:53

like feeling it on the

1:02:55

hair inside your nose .

1:02:58

You pass it on one-on-one .

1:03:00

It's like you start there

1:03:02

, visualizing it . Next step it's

1:03:04

like oh , how is that ? Can

1:03:06

you visualize where the energy or

1:03:10

the center of your breath is as

1:03:12

it moves through your body

1:03:16

? All those things ? You

1:03:18

don't have to go really advanced , you don't

1:03:20

have to go really complicated . A

1:03:23

lot of times to help

1:03:25

people . People are so

1:03:27

far gone that the

1:03:29

simple things , sometimes the

1:03:31

simple things , are enough to just really

1:03:34

start that shift

1:03:36

.

1:03:37

I truly believe so . I'm

1:03:40

fortunate to have

1:03:42

this gift of listening

1:03:45

very well with my heart , and

1:03:47

people are compelled to open up and share . Then

1:03:51

it's a matter of asking maybe just a couple

1:03:53

of good questions , and also

1:03:55

sometimes inspiring or guiding

1:03:57

. I don't have all the answers , but

1:04:00

I certainly know that the people I work

1:04:02

with they do . They have it in them If

1:04:05

I can just point them in

1:04:07

the right direction . For that that's all

1:04:10

it takes .

1:04:11

Listening by itself is such

1:04:13

an important tool . Listening and providing

1:04:16

that human connection , because

1:04:19

feeling listened is healing . It's

1:04:25

like couple therapy 101

1:04:27

, but I remember

1:04:29

reading Men are from Venus

1:04:31

, which

1:04:34

I thought was a great book , but

1:04:36

I read it after my first

1:04:39

divorce . Maybe I'd

1:04:41

read it before . I would have understood more . It

1:04:43

reiterates

1:04:45

the stuff you learn

1:04:47

over time , but that sometimes your

1:04:50

spouse just wants to be

1:04:53

listened . She doesn't want you

1:04:56

to fix problems for

1:04:58

her . It just shows that

1:05:01

he's healing . It's like , oh my god

1:05:03

, there's somebody else that

1:05:06

I'm married to and

1:05:08

they're just listening to

1:05:11

me . That active listening

1:05:13

.

1:05:16

Yeah , that's compassion . We're

1:05:18

able to do that . Yes

1:05:21

, we can feel empathy for whatever is being shared

1:05:23

. We have empathy , but compassion

1:05:25

is actionable . Listening

1:05:28

actively with an open heart

1:05:31

is very compassionate

1:05:33

.

1:05:38

I was going to say why do you think

1:05:41

it's so hard for us to listen nowadays

1:05:44

?

1:05:53

I don't know there's multiple answers

1:05:55

to this one , I suppose . But we're

1:06:01

so busy , so

1:06:04

busy trying to do , trying

1:06:07

to fit into molds , trying

1:06:09

to just

1:06:12

listen in a certain way , because

1:06:14

that's

1:06:16

what we're supposed to do . We're

1:06:19

distracted and busy all the

1:06:21

time . We'll start with

1:06:23

ourselves we don't want to have . I

1:06:25

guess that's it . We

1:06:27

can barely listen to ourselves , so how can we

1:06:30

listen to others ?

1:06:31

Yeah , are there with

1:06:33

your daughter ? Are there like little things

1:06:37

you're doing together

1:06:39

to kind of slow things down and really

1:06:41

enjoy the moment ? I'm assuming there's

1:06:43

probably is a handful .

1:06:46

Yeah , yeah , the most

1:06:49

flagrant

1:06:51

one , if that's the right word , probably

1:06:54

has to do with the consumption

1:06:56

of TV

1:06:58

and phone and whatnot . And

1:07:00

this is almost absent

1:07:02

from her house . And

1:07:06

we were having dinner with our neighbors

1:07:08

the other day and they were laughing

1:07:10

because our little one goes

1:07:13

there sometimes , you know , see

1:07:15

them and the cats . And then he picked

1:07:17

up a remote from a PlayStation and

1:07:20

he was like what's that ? And

1:07:23

we're laughing because for them , you know

1:07:27

, you should know what this is . I

1:07:29

mean , it's a remote control game

1:07:32

console . That's

1:07:34

what you kids do , right , but

1:07:36

ours didn't have a clue what that was and

1:07:38

this is kind of funny , but also also

1:07:41

okay . You know they're going

1:07:43

to be exposed to it and we don't want

1:07:45

to prevent that

1:07:47

from happening , because that's the day may

1:07:50

be live in , but put into time

1:07:52

and so

1:07:54

there's better ways to connect connections

1:07:56

and then

1:07:59

, for instance it's just an example , but I

1:08:02

love it being together , talking

1:08:04

, doing things , activities .

1:08:08

It's hard as a parent , right , Because again

1:08:11

there's the current from the world and

1:08:13

but the the minds

1:08:16

of children are so easily

1:08:18

imprinted

1:08:21

by

1:08:23

experiences that

1:08:25

it's kind of nice to be able to delay

1:08:27

some of these when

1:08:30

there may be a little more mature already for

1:08:32

them . Like cell phones , for example , is one

1:08:34

where you know , I wish

1:08:36

I could have delayed it a

1:08:38

little bit more for for

1:08:40

my kids , and

1:08:45

but you know , it

1:08:47

is what it is . At the same time , we live in this

1:08:49

society and while their

1:08:51

minds get imprinted , they're also resilient

1:08:54

.

1:08:55

So it's a balance . And

1:08:57

they picked that up , probably from the parents

1:09:00

. So hats off to you .

1:09:07

We'll see . I'll see . I use my phone quite

1:09:09

a lot . It

1:09:12

goes in both the good and bad .

1:09:16

But they also have their own journeys right .

1:09:18

They do .

1:09:19

I find a lot of relief in that too . Yeah

1:09:22

, and knowing that they have their own journeys

1:09:24

and they will have to go through whatever

1:09:27

is will be in front of them , it's

1:09:31

okay . We'll be there to

1:09:34

support and guide if we can , but

1:09:37

respect and honor that they also have their own journey , that's

1:09:40

wonderful .

1:09:40

That brings a nice symmetry to the interview

1:09:42

as we're approaching time , because

1:09:45

we started recognizing

1:09:47

that our parents had their

1:09:49

own journey . And

1:09:51

so and

1:09:54

we're recognizing that children

1:09:56

have their own journey and

1:09:59

it's all different types of responsibilities

1:10:01

, right ? The parents is , you

1:10:04

know , us seeing them from the eyes

1:10:06

of children looking

1:10:09

up , and the children it's us

1:10:11

seeing them from the eyes of parents looking

1:10:13

down . And I think

1:10:15

it's a beautiful thing .

1:10:18

Yeah , absolutely , absolutely

1:10:20

. It's all about love .

1:10:22

Yeah , love

1:10:24

, from love of the parents to

1:10:26

love of the children , from love to love . So

1:10:31

I have a boilerplate question

1:10:34

that I asked everyone , and

1:10:36

it's if

1:10:38

you were to capture the essence

1:10:40

of leadership as a totem

1:10:42

, an animal or plant , what

1:10:44

would it be ? And I don't know if you can remember

1:10:46

the answer you gave or not . It's

1:10:49

beautiful .

1:10:51

I think , I think about . I think I

1:10:53

talked about our plant , the Aloys

1:10:55

.

1:10:56

Yeah .

1:10:57

Is that how we pronounce it ?

1:10:59

Yeah , you know , you

1:11:01

pick all the same words I struggle with

1:11:04

because of the French background . I don't think my

1:11:06

wife can appreciate that . But you

1:11:08

know , just you know the

1:11:10

aloe vera plant , are you ?

1:11:12

the one that cactus , yes

1:11:14

, you can use for burns . That's

1:11:16

exactly the word . Yes

1:11:19

.

1:11:19

Yeah .

1:11:20

There's so many properties to this plant

1:11:23

and , as I look at it , you know

1:11:25

it's

1:11:27

very resilient , it's very healing

1:11:30

. You cut one branch

1:11:32

because you want to heal someone else and it grows

1:11:34

back . Yeah , there's

1:11:36

, there's , it's a serving

1:11:39

plant . That's how I see it and it's

1:11:41

a very beautiful

1:11:44

correlation for me with

1:11:46

leadership , because I always

1:11:49

say that leadership is about love and that's

1:11:52

what this plant seems to be driving

1:11:54

on and giving love and service

1:11:57

Love and service .

1:11:59

Beautiful , is there ? Is

1:12:01

there anything else you

1:12:03

wanted to talk about today , or any questions

1:12:06

for me Before

1:12:09

? Actually , I'll do have a little

1:12:11

bit more time than before . I pull a card for

1:12:13

you . I like pulling cards for people , oh

1:12:16

okay , but do you have any

1:12:18

anything else ?

1:12:21

We traveled so much and we covered so many

1:12:23

beautiful subjects . I can't think of anything

1:12:27

else that I want to add . I'm

1:12:30

sure we could go into another

1:12:32

hour and talk about many

1:12:34

more things . But

1:12:37

, we went to the , we

1:12:39

went , we went , we went where we needed to

1:12:41

be , and that's perfect .

1:12:42

Wonderful , wonderful .

1:12:44

So now , anything

1:12:46

to say before you pick

1:12:48

a card .

1:12:50

No , I'm going to say it now about card picking

1:12:52

, but that does . There's nothing else

1:12:54

. I think we covered so much . I

1:12:56

love hearing about your journey . I can

1:12:58

relate to a lot of the ups

1:13:02

and downs that you've shared

1:13:05

and lessons and insights , and really

1:13:07

appreciate the energy and your patience

1:13:10

putting

1:13:12

up with all those questions .

1:13:15

They were loving and good questions , so

1:13:17

they were patience and valuable , an

1:13:20

open heart .

1:13:21

Wonderful . So now

1:13:23

I've been doing this with a few guests

1:13:26

. It's

1:13:28

Oracle cards . Actually

1:13:30

, I'll show the for people watching . It's called

1:13:32

the Earth Magic deck and

1:13:35

it's something I picked up a few years

1:13:37

ago . My wife taught

1:13:39

me how to do this . My

1:13:42

background is engineering . So you know , when you

1:13:44

, if you told me like 20 years ago

1:13:46

I'd be pulling cards for people , like

1:13:48

crazy , that's

1:13:50

like makes no sense , Like

1:13:52

why would I pull cards ? Like you

1:13:55

know ?

1:13:58

I've got all the answers .

1:14:00

Yeah , I mean , it's like this is the

1:14:02

. I would have said this is what the gypsies

1:14:04

do . They look in their crystal balls

1:14:06

and pull cards , and I was

1:14:08

so clueless

1:14:11

. But anyway

1:14:13

, the name of the

1:14:15

game is pulling cards . And

1:14:18

so I'm going to

1:14:20

ask you to think of a question in

1:14:22

your mind about your journey that you'd like

1:14:24

some guidance on . You don't have to share it Actually

1:14:27

, I prefer it if you don't . You can

1:14:29

always share it after , afterward , because

1:14:31

it's usually private , private

1:14:35

matter . And

1:14:37

then I'm going to knock three times on the deck

1:14:40

and

1:14:42

ask the , the angels

1:14:44

, the oracles , the powers that be the

1:14:46

gods we believe in , the God we believe

1:14:48

in , to give

1:14:50

you some answer to

1:14:53

your question . For

1:14:55

for you , maxim

1:14:57

, for you

1:15:00

know , in the , in the context of everything you've

1:15:02

shared today to

1:15:05

help you in your journey , and

1:15:07

for people who are listening and

1:15:09

shuffling the cards and

1:15:13

a whole bunch came out it's

1:15:19

a lot faster than usual , interesting

1:15:25

. I mean , that

1:15:27

must have been a really good

1:15:29

question and the angels

1:15:32

really wanted to to help

1:15:34

here really quick to answer here

1:15:36

really quick , to answer very efficient

1:15:38

. I'm

1:15:41

going to pick the

1:15:44

top two cards , and

1:15:46

so I'll show them here . There's

1:15:50

two of them . There's the Milky Way , for

1:15:53

perspective , and the rainbow

1:15:55

, for what does it

1:15:57

say on there ? Blessings , blessings

1:15:59

. And

1:16:02

I love blessings , I love

1:16:04

the rainbow , and those are great cards I'm going

1:16:06

to read . Give you the

1:16:08

little bit of the read up . I'll

1:16:10

start with the Milky Way here .

1:16:15

Milky Way 101 .

1:16:22

Now . The beginning might

1:16:24

sound not

1:16:26

as positive as you would expect , but

1:16:28

you have to wait until

1:16:30

the end . You

1:16:33

have lost your perspective , so

1:16:36

it is time to step back , breathe and allow

1:16:38

yourself to detach in order to gather

1:16:40

information from your senses and

1:16:42

regain your perspective about the situation

1:16:45

. Detachment

1:16:47

does not mean that you are no longer

1:16:49

care . It simply indicates that you are

1:16:51

looking at things from a different point of view

1:16:53

. It is an outlook that is not clouded

1:16:56

by emotions , judgment or attachment

1:16:58

to outcome , but instead maintains

1:17:01

a non-reactive awareness of these things

1:17:03

. The witness , that

1:17:05

internal aspect of yourself that simply

1:17:08

observes everything in your life , offers

1:17:11

his or her eyes here

1:17:13

. Through these lenses

1:17:16

of pure awareness , you can examine all

1:17:18

aspects of your experiences physical

1:17:20

, emotional and mental without

1:17:22

denying anything . By

1:17:25

doing so , you will come to understand

1:17:27

a greater perspective than is typically

1:17:29

justified by the ego , which

1:17:31

allows you to see what is before you with

1:17:33

clear vision and an open mind . This

1:17:41

reminds me a little bit about what

1:17:43

we were talking about with

1:17:45

taking a step back and

1:17:48

working with that gap and

1:17:51

more stoic approach . And

1:17:57

then the other one is rainbow blessings

1:18:00

119

1:18:02

. I'll

1:18:04

remember your question as well . The

1:18:09

storm has passed and it is time

1:18:11

to enjoy the refreshing beauty of this

1:18:13

cycle , even though it has been difficult

1:18:16

to appreciate any sense of purposefulness

1:18:18

in what you have endured lately . You

1:18:21

can now , as they say , count your

1:18:23

blessings . Do not just look

1:18:26

at the brighter side , adhering

1:18:29

to some academic mantra that

1:18:31

has no heart or death , but do

1:18:33

so slowly and with genuine

1:18:35

gratitude that is expressed up close

1:18:38

and personal . This ever-loving

1:18:40

process of life itself is a blessing

1:18:43

, an opportunity to exist as a human

1:18:45

being on Earth . The planet

1:18:47

is a beautiful garden , even if

1:18:49

it does not always appear to be so . Sometimes

1:18:52

it is only when you look back at a memory

1:18:54

of an experience that you can truly

1:18:56

see the blessings that you have

1:18:58

come from them . Bless

1:19:02

your difficult or painful experiences

1:19:04

and let them go .

1:19:10

That's perfect .

1:19:11

Yeah , there is no coincidence ? Well

1:19:16

, there you have it . Thank you for that . Oh

1:19:19

, you're welcome . It's always nice

1:19:22

to work with the cards

1:19:24

, and it never ceases to impress me .

1:19:26

Yeah , well , you know

1:19:28

they're right on . Good

1:19:32

yeah , good . Well

1:19:34

, the time to see the question is . The

1:19:37

answer lies in the question with

1:19:40

the card that you just picked . I was very much . I

1:19:43

was not asking the right question . Well

1:19:47

, we can .

1:19:48

I love it . We can , we can touch on that afterward

1:19:50

. I'd love to hear more . Well

1:19:53

, let's , let's wrap this up now . Maxime

1:19:56

, thank you so much for being here . Where can people

1:19:59

find you and connect with you

1:20:01

? What are the best places ? And I'll put that in the show

1:20:03

notes as well .

1:20:04

Well , thank you . Yeah , well , I'm only active

1:20:06

on LinkedIn and YouTube with my channel

1:20:08

. I post almost daily

1:20:10

on LinkedIn , almost daily

1:20:13

on YouTube , short videos . I

1:20:15

have a website , stoahcoach

1:20:17

, and that's

1:20:19

about it . So you

1:20:22

can find everything there and

1:20:24

on my LinkedIn profile at the top

1:20:26

. Tune in and up with me there's

1:20:29

a that link brings you everywhere

1:20:32

, everywhere , into my world Wonderful

1:20:34

.

1:20:35

Thank you . Thank you for your

1:20:37

time today . Appreciate it .

1:20:38

Thank you for your beautiful questions .

1:20:40

Thank you .

1:20:41

Yeah , that was a good energy . We had a

1:20:43

nice conversation in

1:20:45

depth , from soul to soul , heart to heart

1:20:47

. These are the best , so I thank you , definitely

1:20:50

.