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fourteen.

1:26

Alright. Let's go around the room. Do

1:28

some introductions. I'll start.

1:30

So my name is Kurt Franklin. I am the

1:32

Executive Director of Leading Saints, which

1:34

is 501C3 nonprofit

1:37

organization. And we are dedicated,

1:39

you know, have a mission here to help latter

1:41

day saints be better prepared to lead Now

1:43

me personally, I live in Stansbury

1:46

Park, Utah, which is in Twilio County.

1:48

I grew up in West Valley City, and

1:50

I've been running leading Saints really since two

1:52

thousand ten when it started out as a hobby blog.

1:55

Two thousand fourteen is when the podcast started,

1:57

and now we are over ten million

1:59

downloads And, man,

2:01

we're glad that you are now one of those

2:03

downloads. Let's jump

2:05

in.

2:30

Today,

2:30

I'm in Green Bay, Wisconsin, sitting

2:33

down with Ben Saboran. Welcome

2:35

to the podcast, Ben. Thanks for having

2:37

me. Yeah. This is cool to to do some of this in

2:39

personal. I'm in town -- Yeah. -- and get these recorded.

2:41

So now you you

2:43

originally from Green Bay? No. I

2:45

grew up on the East Coast Rhode Island.

2:48

That's where I was born and raised. I lived there till I was

2:50

thirteen. People really live in Rhode Island.

2:52

They do. It's a small state union. Yeah.

2:54

But yeah. So I lived there. My parents

2:57

were both converts, and my mom

2:59

joined got attracted into by

3:01

some missionaries when I was, I believe, five

3:03

or six met my step

3:05

dad. He later joined the church as well

3:07

and got baptized and we did the whole temple

3:10

and got sealed in nineteen seventy

3:12

eight with my parents. in

3:14

Washington, D. C. And so then

3:16

we moved out to Wisconsin when I was

3:18

just before my freshman year high school. So

3:20

I flew a lot of different places. Okay. So I kinda

3:23

Was it hearing remating? No. We lived

3:25

way up north. We went

3:27

to we went from award in

3:30

in Rhode Island to

3:32

the third family in a branch

3:35

up in Aston, Wisconsin -- Wow.

3:37

-- that meant at the local college

3:39

in the college rooms on Sunday. Nice

3:42

and had tape cassette

3:44

recorder for the music, and you

3:46

spoke every month because there wasn't

3:48

too many people to speak. You

3:50

bore your testimony every month because

3:53

there was only fifteen people in the room.

3:56

I was the only young man till I was sixteen

3:59

years old, and then a twelve year old came in, oh,

4:01

wow. You know, wasn't my brother, which was

4:03

good. But so, yeah, it was definitely

4:05

a unique opportunity to learn what

4:09

life is like in a I call it a micro

4:11

branch. Yeah. because not even a branch. It's

4:14

a micro branch. Yeah. The closest

4:16

stake center was Duluth, Minnesota,

4:18

which was roughly an hour and half away.

4:20

But I great young men leaders

4:23

back then. who would because we did back in

4:25

those days, super Saturdays -- Uh-huh.

4:27

-- where we and our stake was

4:29

all the way into the Iron Range of Minnesota. So

4:31

the farthest away unit from our

4:34

little branch. We're the only branch

4:36

in Wisconsin. That was part of

4:38

the Duluth's stake. The farthest

4:40

one was way up north. and I believe

4:42

it was seven hours one way to

4:45

get there. So but I great leaders because

4:47

we would do super Saturdays once a month and they would

4:49

drive me at least to dilute to high op a

4:51

ride with the bigger unit to

4:54

go and do my opportunity to

4:56

have an experience to

4:58

meet people who are other members that you're because

5:00

I went from a nice, you know, large

5:02

ward because it was basically everyone in Wisconsin

5:04

or everyone in Rhode Island went to that one church

5:07

in Rhode Island and

5:10

to, like, a micro branch, fifteen

5:12

people. Wow. But the funny thing is is I

5:14

always joke, you know, because when you're when you live in the

5:16

mission field as I always have, you

5:20

you know, everyone's from Utah, who's a missionary

5:22

Uh-huh. -- you know, And so when I got

5:24

time to put my paperwork and I was so excited

5:26

because when I would go on my mission, I

5:29

wasn't gonna be a Utah missionary. can

5:31

say I'm from Wisconsin -- Uh-huh.

5:33

-- even at the time we're living in

5:35

Upper Michigan. It's on the UP, up in Marquette.

5:37

So I can tell you, I was from the Michigan Missionary

5:39

on Wisconsin. And

5:42

halfway through my paperwork, my parents decide

5:44

to move to Utah. Oh, no. So

5:48

they moved to Huntsville, the home of David Omeke.

5:50

Uh-huh. And so I lived so

5:52

I finished my missionary paperwork and actually

5:55

left from the Huntsville first boarding in Utah.

5:57

So, you know, the Lord always has a way of

5:59

helping me be humble. Nice.

6:03

So did you still say you're from Wisconsin? No, absolutely

6:05

not. I I was from Utah man. you got

6:07

a missionary. So that's that's where

6:09

my home ward was at the time. And, you know,

6:11

I I did the whole story if, you know, if it

6:13

blended itself the opportunity of explaining

6:16

you know, six months before I left for a mission

6:18

I was in, you know, not in Utah. But

6:20

-- Yeah. -- that was my homework -- Yeah. -- you know,

6:22

so as what us. Any idea how that Microbranch

6:24

is doing now? Or So, yeah, absolutely. My I

6:26

sell a brother that lives up there. I mean, until

6:29

my parents lived up there, up until years

6:31

ago to when they retired down to Houston area.

6:34

But, yeah, they are in a two stage

6:36

building. Mhmm. still a branch.

6:39

You know, it's a small town of eight thousand people.

6:41

So it's still a branch. But, yeah, they

6:43

probably have active you

6:45

know, thirty to forty five people every

6:48

Sunday and, you know, it's a nice little strong

6:50

branch with a two stage. Yes. So they have

6:52

that little cultural hall just enough for them

6:54

and They've maintained, you know,

6:56

there's some legacy people there for when I was there

6:58

still, and some of their children now live

7:00

in the area. But, you know, like like a lot of

7:02

small towns the economic

7:04

opportunities are very unique

7:07

and small, you unless you work for the college or

7:09

the university extension or the school system,

7:12

you know, or own the State Farm. Yeah. You

7:14

know, it's you're working at Walmart pretty

7:16

much, you know, because all the old because he was a big

7:18

old or mining town, and all that's kinda dried up,

7:20

you know. So yeah. So yeah. So

7:22

it went on your mission too. When on my mission

7:25

to the Dominican Republic was originally assigned

7:27

to the Santodomingo mission. A

7:29

year into my mission, I had the unique opportunity

7:31

where they knew they were dividing the

7:33

mission at some point. So half of

7:35

our class actually were zone leaders

7:37

day one. Oh, really? So

7:39

while I was in training, I was with his

7:41

own leader. So I was, you know and so

7:43

it was a unique opportunity to kinda see how

7:45

I always say there's different stages of missionary

7:48

work And when you're as lonely, you kinda see

7:50

how the sausage is made. Uh-huh. And so it was unique

7:52

opportunity to learn to be a missionary while

7:55

at the same time seeing the administrative side.

7:58

of the mission. Mhmm. So, yeah,

8:00

it was there was four of us total that were with zone

8:02

leaders. And so we did that through our training,

8:04

and then a year and they divided

8:06

our mission in half. And so there was a Santodomingo

8:08

West and Santodomingo East mission. And

8:12

so yeah. So that so I never was only there again

8:14

after that. But I was he got

8:16

the opportunity to try trained a lot, which I

8:18

loved. I training was my favorite

8:20

thing on the mission because it was just the opportunity

8:23

to

8:25

help people

8:27

see the opportunities they could

8:29

learn if they just embraced.

8:32

Yeah.

8:32

You know? And that's always the key you gotta embrace.

8:35

Nice. And then you

8:37

come for your mission and and during the next

8:39

decade, so you went through some

8:41

really intense less the inactivity.

8:43

don't know what we're we're supposed to call it now. But Yeah.

8:45

Hi. Yeah. It's always it's always we talk to the missionaries.

8:47

Out common or their friends and,

8:50

like Right. So,

8:52

you know, changing in the word gospel culture.

8:54

Yeah. So yeah. So I came

8:56

home got married. I'm actually

8:58

married girl for my mission. We

9:01

were Like, AAAA Dominican Yeah.

9:03

Yeah. Absolutely. Actually, after my mission, I

9:06

actually came home early for back surgery,

9:08

so I served eighteen months, came home

9:10

on medical, had reconstructive back

9:12

surgery, which was unpleasantly pleasant.

9:14

You so a unique side story. Okay.

9:17

Okay? So I went

9:19

to go get my patriarchal blessing before my mission.

9:23

It was in Huntsville. went

9:25

to the patriarch's house, waited waited

9:29

no showed. The patriarch no showed,

9:31

patriarch no showed. at his house? At his house.

9:33

Like, are you in his living I'm sitting

9:36

in his driveway. Oh, okay. There's no one's there.

9:38

And so it happened, medical emergency. we

9:41

find out later. because, you know, back then, you have to remember

9:43

it's nineteen ninety. So there's no

9:45

texting or there's no cell phones, you know.

9:47

So you're just sitting there. you know. That's

9:49

what he did. There's no pay phones, you know.

9:51

It's such a different world. So he

9:53

had a medical emergency. So I didn't even know about

9:56

it. I left because I was getting my paragraph busting

9:58

three days before my I was to leave

10:00

to the report to the MTC. Oh, my goodness. because this

10:02

is also back in the nineties where typically you

10:04

didn't get your patriarchal blessing until you were ready

10:06

to go on your mission -- Yeah. -- or go off to college

10:08

Yeah. -- where now it's a little different. You know,

10:10

kids get a much younger. Can't have the opportunity to get a

10:13

much younger if they're if they're if they're ready, you know, their

10:15

parents feel they're ready. Anyways, so I go to the

10:17

MTC. It goes to the

10:19

MTC, of course. Mhmm. So we

10:21

set up an appointment I

10:23

go and wait and wait.

10:26

No way. No short. What?

10:28

The medical emergency. Really? He was also

10:30

an Like, in the Soul, the

10:32

the mission president of the DMTC looked at

10:34

me and said, maybe you're not supposed

10:37

to get it. So

10:39

I go on my mission. Mission

10:41

president says, you know, first thing in the mission

10:43

home, you know, get the whole bridge or paragraph a blessing.

10:45

And -- Yeah. -- so he finds out, you know, if you I don't one and

10:48

he says, well, there must be a reason. So

10:50

I hear that twice now from two mission presidents.

10:52

So I I do my whole mission, come home.

10:55

have, you know, extensive back surgery.

10:59

And come to find out through this whole situation,

11:01

I was born with a birth defect. in

11:04

your back, in my back, where my lower

11:06

spine, that bottom vertebrae that connects to

11:08

your pelvis doesn't it didn't exist.

11:10

It would never formed. Oh, wow. So it's

11:12

very common that the doctor told

11:14

me. He was very common. And by this time when I

11:16

came home, I didn't come home to Utah. I

11:19

came home to Pocatello, I'd hope because my parents didn't

11:21

move off. Oh my gosh. I

11:23

had a really great doctor. He was one of

11:25

the doctor that would work on general authorities out of

11:27

out of Pocatella, so super great doctor.

11:31

But typically you find out about my

11:33

issue you would find out about it when you're in

11:35

your sixties and seventies, when your muscles start

11:37

to deteriorate or lose their elasticity.

11:39

But it happened when I was younger, which was the

11:41

blessing was I come from humble beginnings

11:44

on the oldest of thirteen children. Oh, wow.

11:46

So, you know, the church because I was

11:48

still missionary covered all the medical bills.

11:51

So it was ninety thousand

11:53

dollars and nineteen ninety two

11:55

money. Wow. So it was

11:57

significant twelve hours. So anyways, So

11:59

I got

11:59

I'm I'm in recovery,

12:01

and I'm like, well, maybe I should go get my picture and

12:03

go one thing. Let's see

12:05

if the third time is the charm. So I set it up,

12:07

I do the whole thing. And

12:10

the my patriarchal blessing

12:12

after you go through the initial, you know,

12:14

introduction part, the first

12:16

part of the blessing starts. it

12:18

was your lot in life to be afflicted

12:21

with this ailment. That has stopped your

12:23

mission. Wow. And

12:25

so I like words. Words and definitions

12:28

of words. So the joke I always like to have

12:30

is we're sitting up in the preexistance, me

12:32

and my friends, Angel comes up,

12:35

hands us lots. hoped

12:37

to stand out with lots. Uh-huh. And

12:39

I picked a short straw. You

12:42

know, and the nice part of what the blessing also reminds

12:44

me or tells me that Any work that

12:46

was left undone will be done. Mhmm. So

12:48

then fast forward thirty years later.

12:51

My

12:51

daughter gets her call for her mission. Where

12:54

does she get called to? The exact same mission

12:56

I served in. I didn't even hear public east mission.

12:59

So she never served in the same area I did.

13:02

But there were six months I left undone, so

13:04

she could have served in areas that I was going

13:06

to but didn't -- Yeah. -- to help finish that

13:08

work. So that was it was nice

13:10

because so so yeah. So back to the other

13:12

back to the main story. So got divorced.

13:15

Divorce really kinda rocked my world, you

13:17

know. and was

13:20

the you know, and that really kinda put me in a position

13:22

of, you know, I did the whole, I did everything

13:25

right and -- Mhmm. -- you know, didn't work

13:27

out. Didn't work out. you know, curse,

13:29

you know, curse people and

13:31

kinda did the whole why god and then

13:33

decided III made the

13:36

inaccurate choice but it seemed accurate at the time

13:38

and logical of. I have tons of friends who aren't

13:40

members who are happy and

13:42

are doing everything in the sun. Well,

13:44

let's

13:44

go try that for a while. Uh-huh. And

13:47

so yeah. So I spent fourteen years inactive.

13:50

And, you know, I did a lot of things. You know,

13:54

it was Civic with civic organizations

13:56

had opportunities to serve in leadership roles.

13:59

And that was that kinda became my religion

14:02

almost where I would

14:04

volunteer volunteer volunteer volunteer

14:06

that I was part of junior chamber international, which

14:08

is an international leadership development

14:10

organization. served

14:13

as local chapter president here in

14:15

Green Bay, served as in

14:17

a state office, state president, international

14:19

National Vice President to Europe -- Wow.

14:21

-- National Vice

14:24

President in the United States. And that

14:26

really became what I focused on

14:28

and

14:28

filled that void, that church

14:31

service, would have filled.

14:33

Yes. And did you ever felt, I mean,

14:35

was there a time you didn't were

14:37

intellectually you didn't believe

14:39

or did you always believed? Always believed.

14:41

But so what do you think you'd always you'd come back

14:43

at some point? I didn't. I I and

14:45

and so I have mastered the art of procrastination.

14:49

And so, you know, so my wife now,

14:51

Cindy, we've married we've married twenty three

14:54

years this year. And so when

14:56

we got married, we got married in her little church

14:58

up in the upper Peninsula of Michigan, her hometown

15:00

church. But when we got married, I

15:02

wanted to III for me, I needed

15:04

to make sure that I wasn't that the

15:06

marriage was not making me a member

15:09

of that church. Okay. That

15:11

was, like, even though I was not active, Uh-huh.

15:13

And she was not a member. She was she's not

15:15

she was not a member at the time. And

15:18

she was but grew up Christian, you

15:20

grew up a methodist. Mhmm. mom and

15:22

dad were they're heavily involved in their

15:24

church, went to bible camp, you know,

15:26

she was camp counselor. So she was very

15:28

religious as well. had a very strong

15:30

faith and belief in God, but

15:32

just different faith. You know? And

15:35

so and so we got married there,

15:37

and we and the fighting is we great marriage.

15:39

Like I said, we were at twenty three years. But

15:42

for many years, the only thing we wouldn't talk about

15:44

was religion. There's

15:47

just go being going bad or No. No.

15:49

Not bad. It's just I had my belief sheet.

15:51

We both believe in God and we agreed that's where we

15:53

needed to keep it. Uh-huh. but the other stuff,

15:55

you know, preexisting toward

15:58

a wisdom. That kind of stuff was like, man.

15:59

Uh-huh.

16:00

You know? So he just didn't

16:02

go deep into religion beyond

16:04

belief in God. And nor were you the Australian living

16:07

deep after allegedly. It was it was it

16:09

was great, you know. It was right. Right.

16:11

It worked for the time, you know. But

16:14

then there came a time so about so there there

16:16

was my my ex wife was getting remarried and

16:18

and my dog was in her early teens

16:21

and too struggling, you know, trying

16:23

to find her own way. And

16:26

The relationship wasn't that good between her

16:28

and her future stepdad. So

16:30

my ex wife called and asked if I would

16:32

take full custody. And I

16:34

was like, absolutely, you know, absolutely.

16:37

And so we did that. And so that's when I

16:39

had to choose. So two years

16:41

prior to that, So through

16:43

my life, I've kinda as I look back, I I see

16:45

how the Lord works in my life. Mhmm.

16:47

And it's either through he

16:49

gives me opportunities to change before he

16:51

humbles me. You know?

16:54

And so that's what I've identified. So

16:56

as I've gotten older, I've realized that if I

16:58

make the right choice ahead of time, the

17:00

humbling never has to happen. Yeah.

17:03

So I and sometimes to humble in and some

17:05

you know, much like with the repentance, humbling isn't

17:07

always negative. You know,

17:09

sometimes the humbling is is not

17:11

a negative experience, but it's a,

17:14

you know, here I am. See

17:16

my hand. Mhmm. because

17:18

I'm showing it to you now. Mhmm. You know, I've I've tried

17:20

to nudge and you've just not paid

17:22

attention. So yeah.

17:24

So I I yeah

17:28

So two years prior to getting that call from

17:30

my ex wife, I felt

17:34

that I need to kinda come back to church and get

17:36

myself right Mhmm. Just kinda that yearning,

17:38

that little in your gut, you're like, okay,

17:40

you've you've had this time

17:42

and you've, you know, the prodigal funded. And

17:45

because during this time also, I spent many years. I didn't

17:47

speak to my family. Wow. Just because,

17:49

you know, I'm the oldest.

17:52

And so it's that sense of disappointment, you know.

17:55

where you're the oldest, you're supposed to set the example.

17:57

And so I just didn't I just was, like, not comfortable

17:59

in that space. So

18:01

yeah. So I so I So

18:04

for years, two years prior was like, oh,

18:07

man. It really should. But

18:09

how do I broach that with my wife? Yeah. I was gonna

18:11

ask that. Right? How do I broach it? Well, unbeknownst

18:13

to me, my wife had been

18:15

feeling the same thing that

18:18

what we were missing in our relationship was

18:20

Christ. a religion. So

18:24

she was having those feelings. But again, we didn't talk

18:26

about it. Mhmm. We talked about everything. So

18:28

that that never connected. So

18:30

I've always the funny thing is I've always lived

18:32

in Green Bay probably within three miles

18:34

of the chapel here

18:36

on the side of Green Bay. Anyways,

18:39

so the missionaries, we had a member that

18:41

live older couple of member that lived in

18:43

a new house, like, right two houses

18:45

from a new house we bought. We had no idea. Mhmm.

18:48

So in two thousand ten, we had bought our house.

18:50

And, you know, with a house you have to buy and

18:52

get a dog. You know? No. So we only got

18:54

a little teddy bear dog, and so my

18:56

wife was out in the yard one day.

18:59

the sister missionaries were tracking in the

19:01

neighborhood. And

19:03

so they came in, and we had had the missionaries over

19:06

before, you know, elders. But the

19:08

interesting thing was always the elders would approach

19:10

me and not her as

19:13

the inactive. Or I guys approach

19:15

me as the inactive and not her as the potential

19:17

new. Yeah. Yeah. And so she'd be like, nah.

19:20

They're not interested in me. I'm gonna go do

19:22

something else. You know,

19:23

obviously, we had them over dinner occasionally and But,

19:25

anyways, so they came up

19:27

to her and my wife

19:29

because because also side

19:31

story. we had communicated now

19:35

two years after we had both in feeling this, we had gotten

19:37

the point where we said, hey, you know, I'm kind of

19:39

feeling like this. And she my wife says,

19:41

yeah, I'm kind of feeling I'm missing Christ in my

19:43

life too. Mhmm. So we had had that

19:46

conversation about week or two before

19:48

the sister missionaries stopped and talked to

19:50

my wife.

19:51

So my wife thought I had called

19:53

them to come by because my wife

19:55

has worked remotely for about twelve years.

19:58

so she's home working.

19:59

So so, anyway, so this is so makes all

20:02

my wife invited this is commissioner is over. And

20:05

that's how it started. When I started

20:07

taking the discussions, and I never thought that

20:09

would happen. So she started

20:11

taking the discussions in two thousand twelve,

20:13

got back ties January two thousand thirteen.

20:16

Wow. And at that point, you're

20:18

you're back. Right? Right. But I guess Well, then I was back

20:20

because yeah. because we got my daughter came to live

20:22

with us the summer of

20:24

twenty twelve, and she started

20:26

her freshman year high school September

20:29

of twenty twelve. And that's when I made

20:31

my choice, I had to go back. And I told

20:33

my wife, I said, look, I said, here

20:35

are some things we gotta understand about

20:37

our faith. if I'm going

20:39

back, I'm not going back half because

20:42

I did the half. Yeah. You know,

20:44

I grew up in the mission field, it's easy to do the

20:46

half. where you, you know, kinda live,

20:49

you know, skating between the lines

20:51

Monday through Friday, but just you're worthy

20:53

just enough to bless this afternoon on you

20:55

know, on Sunday. You know? Sorry. I did

20:57

the half. I said, but I'm old enough now

20:59

where I need to go in all in. I need to and I said,

21:02

you know, we need to I just need you to understand that that

21:04

means callings. And I said,

21:06

this is the one thing I've dreaded because

21:08

I was always selfish with my time. You know?

21:11

But I but then I said to myself, I spent

21:13

so many years volunteering in this symic

21:15

organization. It's no different.

21:18

Mhmm. It's the same amount of time. Mhmm.

21:20

It's less travel. So yep.

21:22

So I went back full force did the whole met

21:25

with the bishop, you know, did the whole thing, you

21:27

know. And then six

21:29

months my first calling three

21:31

months in, was assistant

21:34

word clerk. And I'm like,

21:36

okay. We had great word clerk at the time, so

21:38

I really didn't have to do it much. I just would sit and

21:40

observe. And when he was on vacation, I

21:42

would kinda take in or help with the audit.

21:45

And then three months after that, I

21:47

get a call from the state president Can

21:50

you come see me? And I'm Michael, this is never good.

21:52

Yeah. You know, it's going to the principal's office,

21:54

you know, the superintendent's office. So he

21:56

I came in and met with him and my and my

21:58

wife at the time wasn't even

21:59

a member yet.

22:01

She was she had her baptism date. Uh-huh.

22:03

And he looked at both of us and said Lord's

22:06

College of Beale's quorum president. Wow.

22:08

And I went, okay. Here's

22:12

that calling you. Here's that calling you. And it's not just

22:14

a it's not just teaching primary or young men

22:16

or young women. It's -- Yeah. -- eligible for president. It's

22:19

you are responsible for the

22:22

men, for the elders in

22:24

your ward. And so

22:26

I looked at him and I said, president

22:29

Kraebel. I said, you know that

22:33

haven't been active, you know, I'm active now,

22:35

but I'm only six months in and

22:37

I'm still trying to remember how

22:41

to pray. Mhmm. not

22:43

to remember to pray, but how to pray --

22:45

Mhmm. -- other than the, you know, I'm trying

22:47

to remember

22:48

how to read my scriptures again.

22:51

you know, I'm trying to do these things

22:53

for me, so I'm ready. And

22:55

he said, yeah, I know. You'll

22:57

do fine. Nice.

23:00

The Lord's called you. Yeah. And so again,

23:02

what I've realized for me because of my

23:04

nature, you know, my favorite scripture is Messiah

23:06

three nineteen. It's kinda like my my I call

23:08

my lighthouse scripture because I'm

23:10

very keen on the who I am as a natural

23:13

man. and I always have to

23:15

remember that's like one of the scriptures I keep

23:17

in my mind that I

23:19

can recite at least the first part,

23:21

which is the most important part, natural man as an enemy

23:23

to God. So I know if I'm doing natural

23:26

tendencies, I'm not doing what God wants me to

23:28

do. I I'm in direct conflict with

23:30

him.

23:31

So yeah. So I

23:33

the lord knows that for me the best way I

23:35

learn is hands on. And

23:38

so by having to lead a quorum,

23:40

ah

23:42

it forced me to be

23:46

a better disciple

23:48

of Jesus Christ faster. Yeah. Then

23:51

otherwise, another calling would have

23:54

because I had to do PPIs. Mhmm.

23:56

I had to counsel with

23:59

counselors. Mhmm.

23:59

I had to lean on

24:02

the keys that were given to me to find out

24:04

what would be best to activate,

24:06

you know, people who were just like me,

24:09

six who I was six months ago, I had

24:11

to now go and meet with.

24:14

And so I think for for me

24:16

that really helped me see them

24:18

where they are. So I think that's one

24:20

thing I've learned over my, you know, as a missionary

24:23

and then now today

24:25

through my gospel journey, my life journey

24:27

is, you know, I try to see

24:30

people for where they are or

24:32

meet them where they are. to

24:34

help them become who the

24:36

lord needs them to become, or

24:39

not necessarily needs them, but who they're supposed

24:41

to become. you know, because sometimes

24:43

I I know like in myself, I didn't

24:46

know who I could become

24:48

because I'm my own worst critic.

24:51

But the Lord knew the state president

24:53

listened and he knew the bishop agreed

24:55

to give me that you know, to extend

24:58

that calling to me. to help

25:00

me learn who I could

25:02

be. Yeah. You know? So

25:04

tell me in the as you started that calling, is

25:06

the eligible president, you know, with that you

25:08

know, with

25:09

that background, what not. Was it what

25:12

dynamics come to mind? Or how did you handle it?

25:14

Was there a benefit of having you

25:16

in that in that role and then

25:18

what comes to mind? Yeah. I think for

25:21

me, it

25:23

really was I had to

25:27

I had to believe in the atonement. I

25:30

had to believe that

25:32

I was worthy to

25:34

stand in front of men who were giants in

25:37

my mind. Yeah. You know, who were

25:40

past bishops, pat, you know, I had

25:42

to I had to believe that they didn't

25:44

look at me as less because

25:48

of my trials or because of my journey.

25:50

Mhmm. And that, you know, and that took

25:52

time. Now one thing is I and interesting,

25:54

you know, people always find this, sometimes shocking,

25:57

who know me, is I'm an introvert by

25:59

nature. I

26:02

I'm not an extrovert. Mhmm. You know, and and

26:04

how I define that is is I don't I

26:06

don't to revitalize

26:08

and kinda, like, reenter judge myself.

26:11

I just need myself. Qualitude,

26:13

peace quiet. I don't need people

26:16

to get, you know, where my wife is the opposite.

26:18

she's a people, you know, she loves to be

26:20

with people because that kinda gets her gets her

26:22

going and gets her revitalized. So

26:24

I had to learn, but I've never been to public

26:27

speak, which is also a benefit because I learned that

26:29

during my years in as a as a leader

26:31

in junior chamber. Oh, nice. So those

26:33

fourteen years I'm standing in

26:35

France in front of a hundred

26:38

local chapter presidents doing forty

26:40

five minute speech on a stage with, like, almost like

26:42

a TED Talk. Yeah. So I so

26:45

but what I had to learn was I

26:47

had to be comfortable in not knowing

26:49

gospel principles. And that's a hard

26:51

thing I think sometimes for for me it was

26:54

because you wanna know the answer and you don't

26:56

always know the answer. And I was

26:58

one of my fears was saying something

27:00

wrong and being corrected, like

27:03

getting a gospel principle wrong. Mhmm.

27:06

So but then that caused me to do

27:08

what? Steady. Steady. You know what I

27:10

mean? So it's a cause you know, and

27:12

and I also think having my background allowing

27:15

me to be empathetic more, I think

27:17

-- Mhmm. -- not that I would ever encourage

27:20

people to spend fourteen years in active and go

27:22

through the retreatment process with your bishop.

27:25

But for me, it allowed

27:27

me to I could sit in the room with a with

27:29

a with a man who is struggling and

27:32

absolutely relate and understand. Yeah.

27:35

And so that helped

27:37

me because

27:38

it helped me again

27:40

see them as Christ what you

27:42

know, see the man for who he is

27:45

and not the actions that he's doing.

27:47

Yeah. And I thought that would that was powerful

27:49

for me because it helped me

27:53

It's almost like as you grow older, you kinda

27:55

understand the relationship between heavenly father

27:57

and once you have children. Mhmm. you

28:00

know, when they disappoint you, you understand

28:02

how, you know, when they do something like, obviously, you

28:04

wouldn't have made that choice. Mhmm. You know,

28:06

then I kinda realize, oh, that's kinda how

28:08

probably heavenly father feels when I make a silly

28:11

choice. Mhmm. You know? So it

28:13

was so yeah. So it was definitely my journey was

28:15

definitely beneficial. on

28:17

one side because it allowed me to have

28:20

experiences and empathize and

28:22

understand and speak with that understanding.

28:25

but it also caused me to have to do

28:27

some work. You know, I couldn't just say, hey, I'm a seminary

28:30

graduate. Which I did, graduated seminary,

28:32

but, you know, I didn't you know, da da da da da da da,

28:35

you know, never strayed all these fun

28:37

things. And I've read the scriptures every day the

28:39

rest of my life my whole life, and I can have

28:41

things memorized. And -- Yeah. -- I didn't

28:43

have have that. You

28:44

know, I had the ABCs of the gospel.

28:46

Yeah. And I appreciate that that and

28:50

whether that comes the elder school president

28:52

maybe has had that journey or a,

28:54

you know, atypical course.

28:58

before even a elder's quorum president

29:00

or or a leader to make sure that

29:02

those individuals know that there's others in

29:05

the quorum with or not that they would you know,

29:07

obviously with permission and and whatnot, but encourage

29:09

that. You know, let's share our stories so

29:11

that we all know that life's

29:13

been tough for many of us, if not

29:15

all of us, and that build

29:17

unity. You know, that's really a that's

29:19

a great point because that's one of the things I I'm

29:22

on a Okay. So I I'm very direct as

29:24

a natural person. Alright. So I'm gonna try

29:26

to be I'm trying to be direct

29:28

but not offend. So I

29:30

think sometimes we are

29:33

are so siloed as members

29:35

of the church. Mhmm. And we

29:37

guard so closely our struggles

29:41

that we drowned in them. Yeah.

29:43

That's true. That we especially

29:46

men, you know, as

29:49

I was Ella's current president, I was like, we

29:51

don't we

29:52

don't talk about

29:54

anything of substance other than are you doing the fancy

29:57

football this and the word -- Right. -- you

29:59

know, we we don't we don't talk about our

30:01

struggles and our we don't even admit

30:03

that we struggle sometimes. I felt I felt when

30:05

I was old as foreign president. And

30:09

that's not healthy. You

30:11

know, I would there I always say that I was

30:13

jealous of the relief society. because

30:16

they could sit and cry in their in their lessons

30:18

and get feelings out and and have

30:20

I always felt they could have real discussion sometimes.

30:24

where men were we tend to be guarded, you

30:26

know. We tend to be that strong

30:29

you know, we wanna put put present

30:31

that strong face of you

30:34

know, strength and, you know, I'm a

30:36

strong priesthood holder and I don't have weaknesses

30:39

and and and

30:41

it's and it's a lie. Yeah.

30:43

We all do. And so what I tried to do, one of the

30:45

things I, for me, in my tenure, is

30:47

elder school and president service.

30:50

became paramount

30:52

in my time where,

30:55

you know, whether it was breaking leaves in the fall,

30:57

whether I mean, it it was my

31:00

quote was always we're we're we're not just

31:02

movers. You know, we

31:04

would replace roofs. We would do hot

31:06

water heaters. We would because we had so many

31:08

talents Now as your thing is,

31:10

we didn't know each other. So

31:12

I didn't know you that this member could

31:15

fix a car and had a whole little

31:17

garage at his house. I didn't

31:19

know this member. I mean, I knew III

31:22

didn't know in the beginning, but then I made sure we

31:24

found out. Right. We had a member who had

31:26

a whole woodshop in his basement like a legit

31:28

high school would shop. Yeah. Wow. And

31:30

he was a master of all trades.

31:33

And he all you had to do is tell

31:35

him there was something going on and

31:37

he would come and teach the younger men in

31:39

the elder's quorum. Uh-huh. And he was a high priest at

31:41

the time. This is when they were and we were separated back

31:43

in the day. So

31:46

for me, service became the way that

31:48

we built a bridge to unity

31:50

because you're not thinking about yourself.

31:52

you

31:53

let your guard down, you become vulnerable.

31:55

Yes. You know? And the

31:58

other thing is we didn't meet. We didn't have socials.

32:01

So I was like, I'm done with this. We

32:04

we gotta be friends more than just of the hour

32:06

we're at church -- Yeah. -- and saying people

32:08

pleasantries. And now it's every other week. Right.

32:10

Exactly. So it's even less. Mhmm. And

32:13

so I said to myself, what can men get

32:15

around? what what do we all like as men, you

32:17

know, men, you know, Tim, Tim Allen or

32:22

Meet

32:22

a grill, We

32:24

love eating. Yeah. We love

32:26

cooking outside, you know, over fire,

32:28

you know. So I did the I

32:31

I did a social called men meet and meet.

32:34

Three m's. And then he hit me. Yeah. We hit

32:36

a little flyer, and we we just did

32:38

it for one year. It was, I think, in my second

32:40

year, his old school president, maybe like an annual

32:43

type thing? We did it every other month. Oh,

32:45

really? Yeah. Or every quarter. I'm sorry. Every

32:47

quarter. Every three months, we did it. And

32:49

the first one we did with

32:51

thirty two elders, we

32:54

were getting on average fifteen at a meeting,

32:56

honestly. With thirty two. And

32:59

every way, it was kinda like we did a powlock.

33:01

Everyone smoked something and bring it or

33:03

cooked some meat and bring it. Uh-huh. So you had all these

33:05

different varieties. We did it at my house. not

33:07

at church. That's always that was always my big thing.

33:09

Socials don't belong at church. Interesting.

33:12

Yeah. Unless it's like the church

33:15

Christmas party or whatever. Yeah. But it

33:17

does shift that dynamic. It does. Because

33:19

some people are like, oh, should I come dressed up more

33:21

formal because I'm going to church? Mhmm. No.

33:23

Come to my house. I opened my

33:25

home. You know? And so we did

33:27

it at our house. The next one we did, the fawn,

33:29

next next quarter, we had twenty eight

33:32

so we had less, but so what? We had twenty eight.

33:34

Mhmm. You're never gonna get everybody. Right?

33:36

So we did that in the beginning. And and and

33:38

I learned quickly because the second one I made homemade

33:41

brats from scratch. Really? And I

33:43

learned buying them is much better because

33:46

the amount of time it took to make thirty two brats was

33:48

not the ROI was not there.

33:51

They tasted good. Oh, they're phenomenal. Oh, yeah.

33:53

But it took forever and was it Ten

33:55

bucks a Yeah. Literally. early. Yeah.

33:57

With my time was probably more like twenty five. Yeah.

34:00

It was just but again, it's the experience I love

34:02

to cook, but it was the experience of

34:05

teaching -- Yeah. Yeah. -- learning together.

34:07

We had the yeah. We had NTB. I think

34:09

it was NTB. We had some of some championship

34:12

game on. you know, or could have been

34:14

NBA finals. And so we're watching

34:16

on the big screen in my living room. And so

34:18

everyone's there, you know, we're all joking.

34:21

And through that, we built a unity --

34:23

Mhmm. -- to where, you know,

34:26

we became vulnerable, which

34:28

is what we need. One of the things

34:30

I was as we change from ministry,

34:32

from home teaching to ministry, you

34:35

know, I found it so I and I was the elder's

34:37

current president when this happened. I found

34:39

it so I so to

34:41

puzzling how

34:43

so people who struggled with it.

34:46

Mhmm. And

34:47

and I and I and I as I

34:49

just observed and kinda just sat back, I

34:51

was like, man, do we have to have another lesson

34:53

on how to minister? I mean, We've

34:56

been home teaching since the Donna Man. Yeah. You

34:58

know, since recorded history, you know.

35:00

And I think what I what I came up with is,

35:03

ministry requires you to

35:05

open yourself up. Yeah.

35:07

Minasuring requires vulnerability. Minasuring

35:11

requires love you

35:13

know, it requires you to think of

35:15

someone other than yourself.

35:17

And that's hard

35:19

for people. It's easier

35:22

to have I know I gotta give this lesson

35:24

because it's first pregnancy lesson. I

35:27

always show up the last Sunday of the month. They

35:29

know what I know it. you know, and it's just

35:31

a it becomes a ritual, you know, just something

35:34

we always do. Mhmm. And

35:36

and now with the administering, it's almost

35:38

like choose your own adventure. Right?

35:41

You know, how you do it is is

35:43

but it needs to be based on the needs

35:45

of those you're assigned to. Right? And

35:47

I always always remind people that if you

35:49

listen to any talk that talked about home

35:51

teaching, like as of then they

35:53

give you an example of the pillar of home teaching,

35:56

it wasn't home teaching. It was ministry.

35:59

Mhmm. Yeah. You know? And

36:01

so so I think as

36:03

we did that, you know, as we opened our

36:05

hearts and and and and

36:08

love to serve each other.

36:10

It

36:12

became we became closer as a group. you

36:15

know, we could see people's body language

36:17

on a Sunday or see

36:19

their how they just kinda

36:21

carry themselves. and we knew something was

36:23

wrong as a presidency. Mhmm. And so we'd

36:26

pull them aside and just say, is everything okay?

36:28

Yeah. You know, I'm always a

36:30

big fan of not waiting for someone

36:32

to ask for a blessing. Mhmm. Just

36:34

ask them. Correct. Yeah.

36:37

Because I again, as men, We

36:39

have the tendency to be like, I'm fine.

36:41

Yeah. It's and and it's also

36:44

as men. And as people, we don't

36:46

have a tendency to ask open ended questions

36:48

because we don't wanna know. because

36:50

what are we gonna do with it? Like, we just it's

36:53

like I wanna my emphasis you know, most

36:55

people haven't they're empathetic

36:57

to the point where you start explaining,

36:59

and then they're like, I'm good. Is that

37:01

true? Like, I don't really miss her when I get

37:03

onto this. because if you because if I hold to

37:05

it. Now I'm responsible for it. And I'm like,

37:08

I want a level of responsibility, but not that

37:10

much. Yeah. And so I think so

37:12

for me, we we would watch body

37:14

language, and we would and even now, you know,

37:16

I have a couple of friends that I I'm

37:18

not assigned to Minister two, but I just

37:20

love talking with them and, you know, and

37:22

I really kind of have a kindred

37:24

with them even though our age ranges are really different.

37:27

and I'll watch them.

37:29

And if I see they're off -- Mhmm.

37:32

-- I

37:32

pull them aside. You and and now with my

37:34

calling currently, You're

37:36

on a high council. Yeah. I'm I'm on a high council now.

37:39

So just the church is

37:41

true. Figure that trajectory. The the atonement

37:43

works for everybody. Yeah. Okay?

37:46

But I don't get to go to my ward as often as

37:48

I used to -- Mhmm. -- because, you

37:51

know, I have third Sunday, I'm speaking somewhere

37:53

else. and then I'm assigned to the

37:55

Spanish branch, and so they meet in

37:57

the same building as the Green Bay

37:59

First War does, but at different times,

38:01

so they conflict. So I'm only usually

38:03

in my ward once a month now.

38:06

And so I don't get to see people I like to see

38:08

as much as I, you know, that I that I kinda

38:10

like kinda just kinda watch for.

38:12

But I, you know, recently I

38:14

had a situation where one of the guys that I

38:16

that I really love.

38:19

He just was going through some stuff

38:21

and we talked in in the hallway. And

38:24

I just looked him and said, you know, blessing.

38:27

And he's like, man, I'm good. And

38:29

so he bro hugged it out. I went to

38:32

my my, you know, my

38:34

assignment. I went to Elders Gorman Spanish

38:36

branch and

38:38

get home. And I'm

38:40

making dinner because we do Sunday dinner kinda like

38:42

I'm blue blood. all the kids, all my kids live in Green

38:44

Bay -- Mhmm. -- my adult kids, and we do family

38:46

dinner on Sunday. And

38:49

and I get a text as I'm making dinner.

38:52

Can

38:52

he come over and get me blessing? Oh, wow.

38:55

You

38:55

know? That's cool. And so I think I think

38:57

sometimes we, you know,

38:59

I I love the talk by elder Ulforf love

39:02

share invite. Mhmm. It

39:04

is such a beautiful principle when you think

39:06

about it. because

39:08

people

39:09

don't care unless they know how much you care.

39:12

Mhmm. And so if you love

39:14

people and then you share

39:16

a little bit of yourself with them,

39:18

and then you just invite. Yeah.

39:20

Whether they accept it, it's not your problem.

39:22

Yeah.

39:23

Yeah.

39:24

That's powerful. I love that. I mean, there's so

39:26

many many principles there

39:28

-- Yeah. -- right? It's it's yeah. It's it's one

39:30

of those principles, like, on my mission, I learned that.

39:33

Yeah. I learned I learned the principle

39:35

of love the people. Yeah. You know,

39:37

I always prided myself on my language ability.

39:40

It's one of my talents I think that God gave me

39:42

is my ability to absorb languages and

39:44

not speak like a gringo when I speak Spanish.

39:48

And even all these years, I've kept it up in

39:50

the whole nine yards. And I

39:54

learned on my mission as I observed and I

39:56

trained and worked with other missionaries, those who

39:59

learned to love the people and not judge them.

40:01

were the ones

40:03

who learned the language faster.

40:06

Were the ones who were

40:09

accepted -- Mhmm. -- as, you

40:11

know,

40:11

because you when you go into a different culture,

40:15

you

40:15

gotta be accepted. Yeah. you know,

40:17

I was having a discussion yesterday at

40:19

Sunday with our

40:21

first constitutional state presidency president, Nishimoto.

40:24

because he's part of Oneida, which is the native American

40:26

world. Yeah. I I did in there with him. So yeah.

40:29

I love him to death. He's awesome. But

40:31

we talked little bit about culture. you

40:33

know, and I said, you know, when you go into a

40:35

Hispanic culture or Latin American

40:37

culture, whatever is the the PC word

40:39

of the week, I you

40:43

know you're in when

40:45

they start calling

40:48

you loving nicknames based

40:50

on attributes. Okay. Yeah.

40:52

That's true. You know, I'd saw, like, in America,

40:54

in English, you're like with us. We never go to someone

40:57

and say, hey, fat. So how are you doing? Uh-huh. Yeah. But,

40:59

you know, they go, hey, go deep to Como Stars.

41:01

Yeah. And so, you know, I'm in.

41:03

Yep. I've got my little pet name, you know, that

41:06

that they're calling me based on an attribute.

41:08

I'm in I'm in the group, you know.

41:11

So I learned that. I learned you know,

41:13

you in order to teach the people, you gotta

41:15

love the people. You know,

41:17

in order to lead the people, you gotta love the people.

41:20

No one's gonna follow you unless they

41:23

know you love them. Yeah. You know? And no one's gonna

41:25

take any invitation. That's why it's

41:27

love, share, invite. not invite

41:29

share love. Yeah. You know,

41:31

you don't love them if they accept your invitation,

41:34

you know, it's the other way around. Yeah.

41:36

You know? And so that's something I learned

41:38

on my mission that, you know, has really helped me

41:40

in my life even outside of the church

41:42

in business and in civic

41:45

leadership.

41:46

It's the same principle. Yep. Yeah. I've got

41:48

a lot of people. So now in in your

41:50

head role is on the high council and serving

41:53

with the the Spanish branch. Any

41:55

specific leadership principle or concept

41:57

that comes to mind that served you well there? Yeah.

41:59

So I've I've only been there. This

42:02

is my first year in that in the role,

42:04

but you know, I've taken

42:06

a lot of what I learned as Elsinore president

42:08

and in other opportunities. as

42:12

I sit and watch, you gotta

42:14

go in humble. You

42:17

know, you're there to love, share,

42:19

and invite. not to dictate.

42:21

Mhmm. So

42:23

that's the other thing I've, you know, I've I've

42:25

learned the the importance of observation

42:29

Making yourself visible, which

42:33

is a great business principle. You know,

42:35

you're in in business, if employees know

42:37

you're always available, they'll come

42:39

to you when they need you. And so

42:42

think that that's one thing I definitely learned in the Spanish

42:44

branch by making sure that I'm there as

42:46

many Sundays as I can be, I'm

42:50

building that relationship because they

42:53

won't ask for my help unless they trust

42:55

me. So first, I needed I

42:57

knew when I went to Spanish branch and I already knew some

42:59

of the members because my daughter-in-law

43:02

is from the Spanish branch. My son married

43:04

a girl from local girl from the Spanish branch.

43:07

And she's a legacy Spanish branch, grew up in the

43:09

Spanish branch. Everybody knows the family. And

43:12

so But knew even though

43:14

I knew some people,

43:16

I'm still the the

43:18

white English you

43:20

know, happen

43:21

to speak Spanish because of his mission,

43:24

person coming into their unit.

43:26

Yeah. Right? and they are a family.

43:28

Mhmm. You know, they have a different

43:30

culture and a lotteries and culture of

43:33

activities. and pop locks

43:36

and that we don't necessarily have

43:39

in our g b Green Bay

43:41

one ward. Mhmm. You know, where every month

43:43

they're doing a dinner thing and they're getting together

43:45

and making tacos and having great time and

43:47

rice and all, you know, having fun and socializing.

43:50

yeah, Christmas party, you know -- Yeah. -- we're

43:52

very, you know, in the Green Bay first word, it's very

43:54

traditional. So

43:56

I knew that I had to first

44:00

make myself available

44:03

and

44:03

earn trust.

44:05

as I ever earn

44:08

trust, then opens opportunity.

44:10

And then you have to deliver. That's

44:13

another key principle. is if you

44:15

say you're gonna do something, you

44:17

need to do it. You know,

44:19

one of the things I'm working out right now is translation.

44:22

to make sure that every stake meeting

44:26

has Spanish speaking translation -- Yeah.

44:28

-- that every document is

44:30

translated in Spanish that we don't just take

44:32

for granted Mhmm. -- that they're gonna throw it

44:34

in Google Docs themselves. Right. You know,

44:37

making sure that they understand that Even

44:40

though we've always felt them as part

44:42

of our, you know, actions speak louder than words,

44:44

you can you can feel that you're a

44:46

part of unit or a stake. but

44:48

unless the units

44:51

make you feel apart, you can

44:54

be like an island unto yourself. Yeah.

44:56

you know, in in the Milwaukee mission, I

44:58

believe there's only seven

45:01

seven or eight, I believe. areas

45:04

for Spanish speaking missionaries.

45:06

Well,

45:08

so they are I mean,

45:10

we have members in the Spanish branch here

45:12

that drive an hour and half or hour twenty

45:14

one way to go to church.

45:17

You know, it's that's dedication that they're

45:19

here because they love the Lord and want to be

45:21

here. Yeah. So how can I as a high councilman,

45:24

not get in their way. Yeah.

45:27

Gotta get out of the way. Right. And so one of the things

45:29

that I've learned in businesses you know, and I

45:31

used to manage people, I used to like I used

45:33

to manage work for a company here in Green Bay that

45:35

was the second largest health information management

45:37

company. And so we digitized medical

45:40

records in the whole nine. There's a whole billion

45:42

dollar business behind that. But I

45:45

manage the collections department. And

45:48

I learned early in my management

45:50

life that the job of a manager

45:53

your real job is just to move away obstacles

45:55

from people.

45:57

so they can be successful. Mhmm. Yeah.

46:00

It's

46:00

not you. You're not doing anything. You

46:02

know, you you can't make the engine run.

46:05

All you can do is spot things.

46:07

Only fix that before breaks. Or

46:10

let me remove that obstacle so that that

46:12

person can continue success. And

46:15

so I liken that a lot to my job as a high

46:17

consummate. My job

46:19

is to help them

46:21

know that there are resources.

46:25

When their leave sitey president wants to speak

46:27

with the stake relief sitey president council with

46:29

them, I need to let I

46:31

need to make sure that the third

46:33

branch relief site president knows that I'm

46:35

available to translate because

46:38

that person doesn't speak Spanish. Yeah. Now

46:40

we just have a brand new steak, high councilman,

46:43

called for the steak past young man's president.

46:46

speak Spanish. I'm

46:48

super excited for that. Yeah. You know?

46:50

But it's it's the whole thing of, you know,

46:53

our Sunday school president from the stake when

46:55

he wants to meet with, you know,

46:57

the stake or with the GMV first, our

46:59

third branch. Sunday

47:02

school president, make sure we facilitate

47:05

that communication. Mhmm. Make sure

47:07

that when the new because the new videos just came

47:09

out about for Sunday

47:11

school for teaching in the savers way they have updated

47:13

videos. So make III do

47:15

my best to make sure that

47:17

here's the Spanish versions. Yeah.

47:19

to make sure that because again,

47:21

if you're you know, people it

47:23

is very easy for people to feel

47:26

not a part

47:28

when we forget little things like a link

47:30

in Spanish. Yes. So true. Yeah. You

47:32

know, And because of the culture

47:35

of of the Spanish speaking culture,

47:37

it is I mean, we we're

47:39

at church everyone says hi to everyone.

47:42

We shake hands. We hug. You

47:44

know, I mean, it's it's full on

47:46

love. You know, I mean, you're you you

47:49

everyone knows that you are that they are

47:51

happy that you're there, you know. That

47:53

happens in the first word as well, but with

47:55

people I'm comfortable with. Yeah. You know, it's

47:57

just you know, because you don't do that with everybody. Here you go.

48:00

Right. It's just different culture. Yeah.

48:02

It's so it's very easy to make people feel

48:04

like Like, if you I I just read one

48:06

time on a mission, I forgot to shake someone's hand

48:08

as a missionary in

48:10

the Elders Court. and you

48:12

would have thought that I said something

48:15

super offensive. Yeah. But I just

48:17

forgot to shake his hand that day, you know. And

48:19

so that's kind of my again, I look at

48:21

my job as a high councilman, it's to make

48:23

sure that they are understanding that there's resources

48:25

available for them, that we

48:27

are available, that I'm available specifically

48:29

to them for any of their needs and

48:33

not get in their way.

48:35

Yeah. You know, because I think sometimes we

48:38

have a tendency to think, oh, they're a small

48:40

branch. They don't have the the resources.

48:42

They don't have the longevity in

48:44

the gospel. So how can they know how to run the

48:46

gospel? Book.

48:47

I'll read the handbook. Yeah.

48:51

Love it. And I'm really passionate about that serving

48:53

in I served in Sacramento, Spanish speaking.

48:55

So Nice. there's just those little things

48:57

when you're in a English speaking

48:59

steak -- Mhmm. -- the Spanish branch award

49:02

can often be reminded that, oh, you're at you're

49:04

in other -- Yes. -- because Oh, yeah. We

49:06

figure out about that. So there's these little things that

49:08

-- Right. -- end to do. And it's, you know, and people and

49:10

I always tell people, I don't it's not that you're trying to

49:12

offend. Yeah. It's not that you're not being

49:14

Christlike loving. it's just it

49:17

is what it is. Mhmm. So let's identify

49:19

it. Let's move on. You know, sometimes when you bring it up,

49:21

you know, you don't want it. Sometimes, like, if I bring it up,

49:23

are they gonna feel like, you know, Like, one of the things

49:25

I brought up recently is, if at

49:27

all possible, can we get

49:29

talks in advance? because

49:33

it's so much easier to translate when a high

49:35

councilman comes in for a high

49:37

council Sunday or at a state conference

49:40

or leadership training. if we have

49:42

it, you know, understand people speak

49:44

by the spirit. Totally get it. Right.

49:46

But typically, they have some some some foundational

49:48

scriptures that they're gonna share. Yeah. Can we even

49:50

just get that? Yeah. And so we've kinda worked

49:52

on that now where we're getting better. I'm making

49:55

sure we're putting together a list of translators

49:57

for the Spanish branch. because again,

50:00

they could hear my voice, they could hear a missionary's

50:02

voice, but it's so much more

50:04

beautiful if it comes from native Spanish

50:06

speaking person. Yep. And we have several

50:08

members in the Spanish branch ward, our Spanish

50:10

branch, who speak good enough English -- Mhmm.

50:12

-- that they can listen or read

50:14

and then just translate it naturally into

50:16

their native language. And so that's really

50:19

what we're working on. because

50:21

again, like you said, it's so easy, and it's not

50:23

meant to be that way, but it just happens.

50:25

You know, typically most offense never is

50:27

meant. It's just an oversight. Yeah.

50:30

Yeah. Just an oversight. Just oversight. Ben,

50:33

this has been fantastic to learn about your

50:35

own personal journey that's led to into

50:37

some leadership and -- Yep. -- really

50:39

inspiring stuff. I'm excited to share this. So

50:42

Last question I have for you is as you reflect on

50:44

your own personal journey through leadership Mhmm.

50:46

-- how has being a leader helped to become a better

50:48

follower of Jesus Christ?

50:52

Two things. Everyone

50:54

always has a boss. There's

50:57

always somebody who was your own company. whether

51:01

it's regulations or something. So

51:03

learning that while you that

51:05

that God is giving you this opportunity

51:09

to shepherd his sheep.

51:11

You know, a phrase

51:13

that my father taught me, he'll said to me

51:15

years, years, years ago. Church

51:18

is true. Gospel of Jesus Christ is

51:20

true. We're who

51:22

God has to work with. And

51:24

so

51:25

taking that opportunity to

51:30

embrace the stewardship that

51:33

a heavenly father has given

51:35

that has entrusted me to help

51:38

his children.

51:39

I've

51:40

learned that that is not something to be

51:42

taken lightly.

51:43

Because

51:46

in my patriarchal blessing, it

51:49

says that It

51:51

talks about how the mantle of leadership

51:53

will be placed upon my shoulders and that many of

51:55

our heavenly father's children will look to me

51:57

for focusing guidance.

51:59

So for many years, I thought that that was never gonna

52:02

happen. That part of my paired Charcoal blessing

52:04

because

52:04

I was inactive -- Mhmm. -- and I felt a

52:06

loss. But

52:08

again, a heavenly father teaches me

52:11

that as you obey, which is a very

52:13

difficult principle for me in the beginning, because

52:15

I think of it as a negative thing, where I've

52:17

learned that obedience is the key to

52:19

happiness. As I learn

52:21

to obey and I learn to accept opportunities,

52:24

And then I lean on the Savior and

52:27

his teachings and heavenly father.

52:29

Any shortcomings I have, they will make

52:31

stronger, which will then help me

52:34

build my faith and testimony in Christ

52:36

and the power of the atonement and help

52:39

me want to follow them more while I

52:42

help his children, my brothers

52:44

and sisters, on the covenant path

52:46

back to our heavenly father, because we're all in

52:48

different parts of that journey but we're all trying

52:50

to get to the same place. So any little part

52:52

I can have in helping

52:55

our heavenly father's children through

52:57

the gospel of Jesus Christ to help them return

52:59

to him. I'm all in.

53:09

And

53:09

that concludes this Hawaii lead

53:11

interview. Hope you enjoyed it, and

53:14

I would ask you, could you take a minute and drop

53:16

this link in an email, on social media,

53:18

in a text, wherever it makes most sense

53:20

and share it with somebody who could relate to

53:22

this this experience. And this

53:25

is how we how we develop as leaders

53:27

just hearing what the other guy is doing, trying some

53:29

things out, testing, adjusting for

53:31

your area, and that's

53:33

that's where great leadership's discover. Right?

53:35

So we would love to have you share this

53:37

with somebody in this calling or

53:40

a related calling, and that would be great.

53:42

And also, if you know somebody, any

53:44

type of leader who would be a fantastic

53:47

guest on the Hawaii Leads segment, reach

53:49

out to us. Go to leading saints dot org slash

53:51

contact maybe send this individual

53:53

an email letting them know that you're going to be

53:55

suggesting their name for this interview.

53:58

We'll reach out to them and See

54:00

if we can line them up. So again, go to leading saints

54:02

dot org slash contact, and there you can

54:04

submit all the information and let us know.

54:07

And maybe they will be on a future how I lead

54:09

segment on the leading Saints podcast. Remember

54:13

to access the questioning Saints library for

54:15

fourteen days, visit leading saints

54:17

dot org slash fourteen.

54:27

It came as a result of the position

54:29

of leadership, which was imposed upon

54:32

us, by the God of heaven

54:34

who brought forth a restoration of

54:37

the gospel of Jesus Christ.

54:39

and when the decoration was made

54:41

concerning the old and only

54:44

true and living church upon the face

54:46

of the earth. we were immediately

54:48

put in a position of loneliness.

54:51

The loneliness of leadership from

54:54

which we cannot shrink nor run

54:56

away, and to

54:58

which we must face up with boldness

55:01

and courage and ability.