0:06

Hello, and welcome to

0:06

another episode of the leave no

0:08

doubt podcast, really excited to

0:08

be joined once again by Joe

0:13

Partington. I guess some of you

0:13

know, Joe really well. And you

0:17

know, it's great to have Joe,

0:17

back with us to just have a

0:21

little look back over the year

0:21

have looked back over, you know,

0:25

some of our podcasts and just

0:25

having a discussion around some

0:28

of the real you know, key take

0:28

home messages from the podcast.

0:33

You've taken my

0:33

eyes stolen my thunder there.

0:36

Yeah, very, very good.

0:36

articulated very, very well,

0:39

it's, um, I think, obviously,

0:39

we're about to wrap up the year,

0:42

right. And a lot of the

0:42

conversations that we have had

0:45

with with amazing people and

0:45

amazing people in football, and

0:48

it's, I think a lot has happened

0:48

with us, like in our own

0:51

personal lives this year. And

0:51

this podcast is, is at times

0:55

been difficult to record. But

0:55

it's, I'm sure you can agree

1:01

with me my it's been great to

1:01

connect with people within

1:03

football to share people's

1:03

stories to give people

1:06

information that might help them

1:06

improve their games. And I think

1:09

we're, you know, we've just been

1:09

talking about it before we got

1:11

started about some of the

1:11

numbers that, that we've managed

1:14

to accumulate people listening

1:14

to us share in us that we've

1:17

been listened to in over 50

1:17

countries, which is a quarter of

1:20

the world, which is absolute

1:20

madness, that some of these

1:22

numbers that I'm sure will

1:22

share, obviously, with people in

1:25

in time is really amazing. So

1:25

when we first started this, I

1:30

think it was locked down right?

1:30

When we first started speaking

1:33

to one another about this

1:33

podcast, it's been awesome to

1:36

see that we've, how many people

1:36

have listened to it. How many

1:39

people have have spoken to me

1:39

and I'm sure you have our

1:42

episodes, and I'm even playing

1:42

games. I've got like, a few

1:45

weeks ago, I played a game. And

1:45

one of the guys after the game

1:48

after which, or can they

1:48

actually beat me, so I'm sorry,

1:52

it was nicer for him. That was

1:52

for me. But he said, Oh, what's

1:54

going on with the with the

1:54

podcast, like I've seen you not

1:56

been been on there most

1:56

recently. And, and obviously

1:59

explained to him the situation

1:59

that I'm in workwise and but it

2:02

was just I thought was amazing

2:02

that people obviously recognise

2:06

yourself and I for this live no

2:06

doubt podcast and, and all this

2:09

amazing information we've been

2:09

able to get from people to give

2:12

to others, which is which is really, really cool.

2:16

Yeah, I think when you could go back to when we first started, I think the whole idea

2:18

was that, you know, giving back

2:20

giving real take home messages,

2:20

you know, actually trying to put

2:23

something out there for aspiring

2:23

players, players who just want

2:28

to get better in the game. So

2:28

you know, by just touching one

2:31

or two people, I think we've

2:31

achieved what we wanted to from

2:33

the outset. But if I if I just

2:33

go through some of the stats,

2:36

which you know, I think very

2:36

humbling, you know, we've been

2:40

listened in over 50 countries

2:40

100,000 streams, our listeners

2:46

increased by 148% this year,

2:46

increased by 325 streams, you

2:51

know, for sale over 700 of you

2:51

were in your top 10 podcasts, I

2:56

think that number is even closer

2:56

when it's top five. So, you

3:00

know, actually this is you know,

3:00

touched a lot of people and I

3:04

just I guess we need to thank

3:04

starting off for added support

3:09

this year from connection

3:09

technologies. You know, they've

3:11

actually you've been able to

3:11

support us with this podcast and

3:15

you know, really able to keep it

3:15

going and you know, help produce

3:19

those numbers.

3:21

Yeah, they're really good guys connection technology guys, they're

3:23

obviously football people they

3:25

wanted to be involved in, in

3:25

something that would would help

3:28

benefit others progression, I

3:28

suppose and be authentically in

3:31

the game. So we're so

3:31

appreciative to them to help

3:36

that they've given us and to

3:36

allow us to, to obviously

3:39

continue to reach people and and

3:39

I actually didn't know those

3:42

numbers obviously before we

3:42

spoke down obviously off camera,

3:45

we've just been discussing it

3:45

and really like just really

3:49

astonished really, really blown

3:49

away by the by the amount of

3:51

people that listen to us and

3:51

hopefully we've been able to

3:54

bend you know, to positively

3:54

impact their lives. But

3:58

connection centre technology are

3:58

a huge part of that. So yeah

4:02

million percent thank you to

4:02

them and, and what they've done

4:05

for us this year.

4:09

So if we get started on

4:09

hopefully another really, you

4:11

know, strong, strong podcast

4:11

where we can share a lot of

4:14

information with you and what we

4:14

want to do is just go back and

4:18

look over some of the guests

4:18

that we've had on you know, some

4:21

of the ones that might have come

4:21

to the back of our minds. You

4:24

know, just refresh those. And

4:24

what better place to start then

4:28

our first guest on the podcast

4:28

was was actually Jack Wilshere.

4:33

You know Jack shared

4:33

inspirational experiences about

4:35

coming through his time at

4:35

Hearthstone experience being a

4:38

player with that exceptional

4:38

talent. One of the quotes I

4:41

wanted just to go over and

4:41

discuss with you Joe's Jack Jack

4:46

was mentioned on the podcast. It

4:46

doesn't matter whether you have

4:50

a natural football talent, if

4:50

you don't work on it, it just

4:53

not gonna happen. You have to

4:53

eat right you have to train

4:56

right and grab on the

4:56

opportunities that present

4:58

themselves to So I think that's

4:58

a real strange, strong take home

5:02

message Joe.

5:04

He's an A Yeah,

5:04

he was an awesome person, Jack,

5:07

I'm, quite understandably, it

5:07

was, it was quite early on into

5:11

this, obviously, this this

5:11

podcast journey, and he was one

5:14

of the first people that I've

5:14

met. And thankfully, you know, I

5:17

mentioned Steve Cook, who was

5:17

closely with them at the time,

5:20

and I believe still is because

5:20

they were playing with each

5:23

other at Bournemouth, and he

5:23

managed to set this up. And I

5:26

was really nervous before

5:26

meeting Jack, because he was the

5:28

first, I suppose. And this no

5:28

detriment to anybody else that

5:32

we spoke to at the start, but he

5:32

was Jack's a superstar. Really,

5:35

he's like everybody, everybody

5:35

in English football, as of a

5:39

certain age knows who he is.

5:39

They know what his potential

5:42

was. They know how, you know,

5:42

they know all about the

5:45

Barcelona game. And what

5:45

happened after that, and ended

5:49

up feeling a little bit guilty,

5:49

actually, because we obviously

5:51

had a conversation around that,

5:51

that Barcelona game. And I think

5:56

rising ball as it was, in the

5:56

end, obviously shared a post of

5:59

objects experience from that

5:59

game, and I know that he gets

6:01

asked that question a lot. And I

6:01

sort of had to as well as I

6:04

wanted to go deeper in into that

6:04

day and what it did for him and,

6:08

and how he felt before during

6:08

after and, and how it impacted

6:12

his life. And, and then

6:12

obviously, most of the comments

6:14

on this rising borders post was

6:14

our colony stop talking about

6:18

that Barcelona night. So I felt

6:18

guilty because that was I asked

6:22

him that question that I put

6:22

upon him. But now he had just

6:27

just such a wonderful insight

6:27

into to what elite football

6:30

looks like and what it feels

6:30

like. And it's probably one of

6:33

the most talented, one of the

6:33

most naturally talented players

6:36

that this country has produced.

6:36

And for him to obviously talk

6:39

about hard work and dedicating

6:39

your life to the game. Alongside

6:44

talent. I mean, it was just a

6:44

real breath of fresh air really

6:46

that it goes to show. It's just

6:46

talent isn't everything. I know

6:49

that there's that famous quote

6:49

of Hard work beats talent when

6:53

talent doesn't work hard. And I

6:53

think Jack really did work hard

6:56

like he was he was incredibly

6:56

gifted, and he did work hard. We

7:00

all know about obviously the the

7:00

difficulties he went through

7:05

with injuries and how that

7:05

almost blocked is his pathway to

7:09

sustaining his level at the

7:09

very, very top. But I'm sure now

7:13

obviously looks after Arsenal's

7:13

under eighteens. And I'm sure

7:16

he's done an amazing job because

7:16

it his insight into to not only

7:20

the game and the highs and the

7:20

lows and what comes with it. But

7:23

as is he understands what elite

7:23

football looks like. And for me,

7:26

obviously to have a conversation

7:26

with him very early on in into

7:29

this podcast journey was was

7:29

awesome. Really, I can imagine I

7:32

can imagine that one did really,

7:32

really well, because it was full

7:35

of great insight and great information.

7:40

Yeah, and like you

7:40

mentioned there, obviously now

7:43

he's obviously nurturing young

7:43

talent, he spoke around his loan

7:48

moves. And he's quoted here

7:48

saying don't take loan moves

7:51

negatively. They always

7:51

represent a great opportunity

7:54

for playing time, and learning

7:54

new things. And so I think this

7:57

obviously showed his I guess,

7:57

growth mindset and what he

8:00

thought about loans for about

8:00

different experiences for about

8:03

going out on loan analysis come

8:03

up, I guess, with quite a few

8:07

people on this podcast about

8:07

actually how the loan experience

8:10

can really benefit you as a

8:10

player but might not always go

8:12

to plan.

8:14

As he is a huge part of the game, isn't it that the loan system and it's so the

8:16

stigma on going on loan

8:20

sometimes is very, very

8:20

negative. And I'm not really too

8:24

sure I buy into that. It's

8:24

obviously you want to play at

8:27

the team that you're at. If

8:27

you're young player you want to

8:30

break into the first team. That

8:30

is that is what every young

8:34

player aspires to do. But to get

8:34

to that level to reach that

8:38

level to be ready to not only

8:38

play once but play 10 times in a

8:42

row, you've got to have

8:42

experienced what what the game

8:45

looks and feels like especially

8:45

even before a game after a game.

8:50

But it's not necessarily just

8:50

about your matchday experience

8:53

in terms of the 90 minutes that

8:53

you play. It's about everything

8:55

that comes with that, like how

8:55

can you absorb tactical

8:58

information? Like how how can

8:58

you do a role for the team

9:01

within the position that you're

9:01

playing? There's so much more to

9:05

it to a match day that comes

9:05

with just performing right on

9:09

the grass. So those experiences

9:09

regardless of whether you

9:13

believe it's your level or not.

9:13

It's it's such an it's such an

9:17

important experience. And I

9:17

would I would implore most young

9:20

players if if they're in

9:20

academies or are on the edge of

9:23

a first team to ask the question

9:23

to say like, can I go and play a

9:27

game? Can I go and kind of go

9:27

and experience this like I would

9:31

may like may or may not speak

9:31

about this guy obviously during

9:34

this conversation, but I'm going

9:34

to mention him. Matt Ritchie,

9:39

when I had a conversation with

9:39

with Matt, we spoke about

9:42

obviously a lot of things and

9:42

and one of the things that stuck

9:45

with me that he said was that

9:45

when he left Portsmouth they

9:49

were a championship team at the

9:49

time. He'd made two premier

9:52

league appearances for

9:52

Portsmouth. They were already

9:54

relegated So, but he made two

9:54

premier league appearances. He

9:59

then went to school And then on

9:59

loan. Swindon ended up being

10:02

relegated into Ligue two. So

10:02

before you know it might have

10:05

gone from playing Premier League

10:05

games, to lead to games. And I

10:09

think that year at Swindon, they

10:09

did very well. I think they got

10:11

promoted. And somebody said to

10:11

Matt, after you've been

10:14

promoted, or like, you've you

10:14

found your level? And that's it

10:17

known that, like, What do you

10:17

mean found my level, like, I'm

10:20

way off my level, and are all

10:20

like it genuinely, it sticks

10:23

with me now I like to share that

10:23

information with young players

10:26

that I'm surrounded by, because

10:26

he took that as a little bit of

10:30

an insult. Someone's trying to

10:30

pay him a compliment. And he was

10:32

like, no, no, no, like this.

10:32

You're, you're wrong. Like, I

10:35

know, I know, I'm nowhere near

10:35

my best. And he used that. He

10:40

saw us that quote that someone

10:40

gave him as motivation every

10:43

day. To be like, all these

10:43

people think that I found my

10:46

level it's like, and I'm, I'm

10:46

nowhere near it. And obviously

10:48

now we know he's been an

10:48

unbelievable Premier League

10:51

player, but can imagine for for

10:51

jackin. And for people going on

10:56

loan, it's probably the same as

10:56

in like, you go on loan, and

10:59

suddenly the perception is that

10:59

that is your level. But you're

11:02

not you're actually using that

11:02

experience to get to where you

11:05

want to be. And so yeah, that

11:05

was that was a powerful, that

11:09

was a powerful thing that Jeff was talking about, because the stigma on loans, like I said, is

11:10

negative, but shouldn't be that

11:13

way.

11:16

Yeah, no, definitely on

11:16

an echo that one, I think it

11:19

leads into quite nicely to

11:19

another one I've got here from

11:21

him. So I'm gonna go straight

11:21

into there. Like it's talking

11:23

about being talking about

11:23

playing time, Jack talks about,

11:27

you know, sometimes when you're

11:27

not playing when you are

11:29

substitute, you know, and his

11:29

quote here, so, when you're not

11:32

getting enough playing time,

11:32

it's always advisable to stay

11:35

professional, keep playing and

11:35

training, well do the right

11:37

things and put in more effort to

11:37

grab the manager's attention.

11:40

And opportunities will come. So

11:40

I guess, touching on the point

11:44

now, you know, it's very easy if

11:44

you're not playing to be

11:46

disheartened sitting on the bench if you don't think you're going to come on. And, you know,

11:48

that's probably the difficult

11:51

times where, you know, you've

11:51

got to ensure that you keep

11:54

yourself ready for when that

11:54

opportunity does come in, I

11:57

always talk to players and say,

11:57

you know, football changes

12:00

quickly, football chain, and if

12:00

you're not ready, then you're

12:02

going to miss your opportunity

12:02

to actually, you know, go on and

12:05

make an impact and then get yourself playing.

12:08

Yeah, absolutely

12:08

right down. Obviously, you work

12:10

with, with the very elite

12:10

players in obviously, Wales, in

12:14

terms of country, but also club

12:14

wise, you've worked with elite

12:16

players, and the default is not

12:16

playing. So it's no big deal. I

12:20

don't care. I'm just I'm not

12:20

going to try as hard. Or like,

12:25

I'm going to feel sorry for myself that somebody else doesn't pick me and, and it's

12:27

their fault. It's everybody

12:30

else's fault and not mine. And

12:30

that is that is default. Like

12:33

we've all been there. Like, it doesn't matter if you're a football player, or, or you're

12:35

working in whatever industry it

12:39

is, like if if someone doesn't

12:39

pick you or doesn't reward you

12:41

or pick someone else, then then

12:41

you feel a certain way like and

12:45

that's, and that's very, very

12:45

natural. It's actually the

12:47

hardest thing to do at that

12:47

time, is to say, no, now I'm

12:51

going to, I'm going to use this

12:51

to motivate me to do better, or

12:54

I'm going to do more, or I'm

12:54

going to work harder, or I'm

12:57

going to practice more. Like I'm

12:57

going to ask the manager what it

13:00

is that I can do to get myself

13:00

on the grass in his team.

13:06

Instead of just Yeah, I guess

13:06

sulking and staying silent and

13:10

not really voicing an opinion.

13:10

And I've had this conversation

13:14

with with loads and loads of

13:14

people and also I've had it with

13:16

myself a lot of times is it feel

13:16

sorry for yourself, if you know

13:21

you're you go to is probably to

13:21

pitch to someone about why I

13:25

should be playing and somebody

13:25

else shouldn't be. But I think

13:28

once you take responsibility for

13:28

anything that happens like

13:32

you've not been picked, it's not

13:32

your fault. Like you you can't

13:36

like you are shaping the

13:36

opinion, obviously of the

13:39

manager or whoever has a view.

13:39

But continue to develop that

13:44

opinion in a positive way. Like

13:44

don't take a negative

13:47

experience. And let it define

13:47

you as a person and apply it

13:51

because I think as I like to

13:51

speak about this quite a lot and

13:54

albeit like I've not had a

13:54

fruitful career like I've played

13:59

most of the time in the National

13:59

League and in the in Ligue one.

14:02

But football is mostly about how

14:02

you deal with negative

14:06

experiences like this, there is

14:06

not very often and obviously

14:10

maybe at the top level when the

14:10

man cities and the Arsenal's

14:12

and, unlike winning a game, I'm

14:12

not talking about winning a game

14:16

because you can win a lot of

14:16

games. But it's when you don't

14:20

play but with anybody that when

14:20

you don't play well, when the

14:22

manager doesn't pick you, when

14:22

somebody has not said something

14:25

nice about you, when you've when

14:25

you've been on the end of of a

14:28

negative score line, like when

14:28

in training, you think you're

14:32

going to be in the team and

14:32

you're not when you like you,

14:35

you've you're a little bit

14:35

injured and and you're carrying

14:37

a knock, it's like all these

14:37

things accumulate into negative

14:41

experiences. I swear my probably

14:41

in my life. Football's been

14:45

worth it maybe five, five times

14:45

off the top my head that I can

14:49

think, but those five times were

14:49

were more than worth it like

14:52

they like I would do all over

14:52

again for those five moments.

14:56

But people need to realise that it's not you're not going to have a moment like that every

14:58

day. You're not going to have a

15:00

moment like that every week,

15:00

maybe not even every season.

15:03

I've played for 16 years, and

15:03

I've really got five moments

15:07

that I can think of straight

15:07

away that I think. Yeah, that

15:10

was that means that like when I

15:10

retire, I can look back and say

15:13

it was all worth it. So it's,

15:13

yeah, certainly, I think I think

15:16

some obviously, what I'm talking

15:16

about is how you deal with

15:19

negative experiences is almost

15:19

the biggest defining feature of

15:25

whether you have a long lasting

15:25

successful football career or

15:29

not really.

15:32

And I think echoed out

15:32

as well, once again, it's those,

15:35

it's how you look at those

15:35

negative experiences, because

15:38

you talk around, you know, if

15:38

you look at him with a growth

15:40

mindset, you're looking at those

15:40

experiences and how you're

15:43

actually going to grow, how you're going to be stronger for them how, you know, they're

15:45

actually going to benefit you in

15:47

the long term, which, you know,

15:47

it's very difficult to do when

15:49

you're, you know, at the sharp

15:49

end, but actually, if you can

15:53

reframe that in your mind that

15:53

actually, I'm going to use this

15:56

like, Matt Ritchie did, I'm

15:56

going to use this, to drive me

15:59

on to make sure that I become a

15:59

premier league player. So you

16:03

know, actually, and it's those

16:03

moments when the game, you know,

16:06

Jack's talking about they're

16:06

sitting on the bench, but it's

16:09

those moments and those times

16:09

that, you know, actually will

16:13

define you, like you're saying,

16:13

in your career. And so Jack

16:18

mentioned around goal setting,

16:18

and to achieve your dream, you

16:22

have to set goals, stay focused

16:22

and be driven. And how much has

16:26

this resonated with you? I

16:26

guess, you know, within what

16:30

you've seen and listened to?

16:32

Yeah, I mean,

16:32

goal setting isn't so much

16:34

something I do now, obviously,

16:34

like I'm latter stages of career

16:38

and, and combining football with

16:38

work and stuff. And a lot of

16:41

people will do that. But I think

16:41

a lot of people that I've played

16:44

with in my level, are young

16:44

people who do aspire to be to be

16:47

players and, and always think

16:47

goal setting back in the day

16:50

when I when I was younger and I

16:50

obviously wanted to achieve more

16:53

and and I wanted to aspire to

16:53

become the best version of

16:56

myself like goal setting, it

16:56

genuinely was really important

16:59

sort of like hold you hold you

16:59

accountable a little bit and

17:02

obviously gives you something to

17:02

get out of bed every day for

17:05

like, when I was a young guy at

17:05

Bournemouth, I was in and out of

17:10

the team quite a lot. Mostly

17:10

not. And but every day the goal

17:16

was to was to become a first

17:16

team player in like a regular

17:19

first team player. Then

17:19

obviously when I left

17:21

Bournemouth and and signed for

17:21

easily after, you know different

17:25

circumstances with injuries and

17:25

stuff. The goal was always to

17:29

get back into the Football

17:29

League. So without that, like if

17:32

I was just plodding along with

17:32

with no real with no real reason

17:35

with no real ambition. It's very

17:35

difficult to how do you how do

17:39

you get motivated? And how do

17:39

you stay motivated? Like by by

17:43

sort of Yeah, trying to define

17:43

what you're doing it for. It

17:47

makes everything so much easier

17:47

to do. Like maybe you don't want

17:50

to go to the gym, because you're

17:50

tired. But you know, you've got

17:53

to because you've got this goal

17:53

that you want to reach. But

17:56

maybe you don't feel the best in

17:56

training and you'd prefer to

17:59

have a bit of a day off or to

17:59

take it a little bit easier. But

18:02

you think no one else is taking

18:02

it easy. Nobody else who wants

18:05

to aspire to get into the Football League is taking it easy. No one else who wants to

18:07

be a premier league player is

18:09

taking it easy. So it's I think

18:09

it's really important really,

18:13

and everybody's goals might be

18:13

completely different. You might

18:16

be a substitute wants to get in

18:16

the team you want to you might

18:19

be in the team and want to get a

18:19

move to a higher club. Like you

18:21

might be a young player who just

18:21

wants to get in a matchday squad

18:25

for for a first in game. Or you

18:25

might just want to train with

18:29

the first team and give a good

18:29

account of yourself like

18:31

everybody. But there are long

18:31

term and obviously short term

18:33

goals, but they are I think,

18:33

yeah, I mean, Jack talked about

18:36

writing nice. And he's played at

18:36

a much higher level than the

18:39

parent of us any any. I think

18:39

goal setting is, is massive, not

18:43

just for football but in in life

18:43

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19:18

Yeah, and I just say it's probably one of those things that may not come

19:20

naturally to a lot of people may

19:22

feel a bit awkward may feel a

19:22

little bit false when you're

19:25

doing it. But the actual process

19:25

of going through and thinking

19:28

about it and how, you know,

19:28

things can shape and impact that

19:31

daily life. You've got the

19:31

goals, you've got your values,

19:33

you've got your things that you want to achieve, and you'd be breaking that down into

19:35

actually, well, what am I going

19:37

to do today? What am I going to

19:37

do over the medium term and what

19:40

is the long term goal for me? So

19:40

I think that's a process. You

19:44

know, I think is really

19:44

important. I encourage people to

19:47

go and try some so moving on.

19:47

I'm not sure if this was our

19:52

second guest was the second one

19:52

I've got on here. Somebody you

19:57

know, Andre I was the guest

19:57

somebody you know, was we

20:02

learned how to deal with a lot

20:02

of pressure, a lot of

20:06

expectations coming up. I don't

20:06

know if any of the guests can

20:09

remember by his dad, then we can

20:09

hopefully get the name right up.

20:12

Eddie, Pelle was potentially the

20:12

the greatest African player of

20:19

all time, was spoken about,

20:19

actually.

20:23

People People

20:23

associate it with being the best

20:25

African player of all time. Yeah.

20:28

Yeah, absolutely. And

20:28

so Andre grew up in that was

20:32

saying that shadow by II grew up

20:32

with that, in in Garner, moving

20:37

to Marseille where his dad was,

20:37

was a legend as a player. So,

20:43

one thing, if we just like, kick

20:43

us off with what the first quote

20:48

I said, Andre said, around

20:48

dealing with pressures, you

20:51

can't change the fact that there

20:51

will be pressure is there, but

20:55

how you deal with it? So, you

20:55

know, for me, I think that was

20:59

quite once again, leading on

20:59

from what Jack was talking

21:01

around there around that growth

21:01

mindset, and, and, you know,

21:05

goal setting, and how you how

21:05

you look at things, so I thought

21:08

that was quite, you know,

21:08

actually big from him to say,

21:12

you know, that pressure could

21:12

make a lot of people you know,

21:15

maybe crumble, maybe not cope

21:15

with it. And I guess that

21:18

translates throughout for leaks,

21:18

you know, the pressure of

21:20

playing your first game, the

21:20

pressure of, you know, might not

21:23

be it might be different

21:23

pressures from outside of

21:25

football. It is how you deal

21:25

with those pressures that

21:28

actually, you know, actually

21:28

support you to perform well.

21:33

Definitely a powerful quite mate, isn't it? When, obviously, when I first

21:35

through you was introduced to

21:41

Andre, and I knew that we were

21:41

going to speak to him, I always

21:44

knew that he was obviously an exceptionally talented footballer, we've done a lot in

21:46

his life, and was a huge sort of

21:50

like inspirational figure in

21:50

Garner, but I really didn't know

21:53

at the sort of severity of his

21:53

life really like all is like his

21:57

uncle was a player a lot,

21:57

obviously, not at the same level

21:59

of his dad, but his whole family

21:59

were footballers. And his dad,

22:02

imagine your father is like, is

22:02

known as the best African player

22:06

of all time. He just like you,

22:06

everybody would just expect you

22:10

to grow up to be awesome, or to

22:10

grow up to expect you to be able

22:14

to play at the top level. And

22:14

that's, and he managed to

22:17

actually like to live with that

22:17

pressure. He left home,

22:20

obviously, when he was very

22:20

early to go to France to play

22:22

football. And just live with

22:22

that pressure, I've managed to

22:25

almost absorb it to help him

22:25

progress. Whereas I can imagine

22:29

Yeah, like, I mean, I don't know

22:29

how I deal with that. But

22:31

honestly, personally. Like it,

22:31

he he's obviously had an

22:37

unbelievable career. But he was

22:37

expected to, which is I don't

22:42

know if it if it makes it more

22:42

impressive that he's done it or

22:45

not, you know what I mean?

22:49

Yeah, and definitely

22:49

when you look at it, and I was

22:52

just trying to think in my head

22:52

there, but you know, how

22:55

infrequently Horton There was

22:55

word but like how it doesn't

22:59

often that sons or off great

22:59

players don't always necessarily

23:05

go on to become great players,

23:05

you know, like, actually have

23:08

that same motivation to go on

23:08

and achieve on the back of, you

23:12

know, what their parents have

23:12

done. So, Andre being able to

23:15

deal with in, you know, the way

23:15

he spoke about it, you know, I

23:19

don't have I got the quote here,

23:19

but I remembered when we spoke

23:21

about Ghana, and being football

23:21

isn't just football and Ghana

23:26

football, is that that way of

23:26

life, you know, that actual, you

23:29

know, the pressure is on you,

23:29

you have to be able to do it.

23:32

And, and they had that, Andre,

23:32

that expectation for Andre to go

23:36

on and become it. So, you know,

23:36

I think it's obviously really

23:41

powerful and what he's managed

23:41

to to achieve.

23:45

Yeah, like, we

23:45

don't know, do we because

23:49

because the power of us have

23:49

never been, we don't know what

23:52

what football in Ghana is like,

23:52

and when Andre obviously started

23:55

speaking about it, it's just a

23:55

huge part of the culture,

24:00

obviously, in that culture

24:00

country, and he's gone as

24:03

captain. So he's almost like the

24:03

spearhead of, you know, figure

24:06

of a football. And that's,

24:06

that's hard within itself. Like,

24:11

obviously, everybody is

24:11

following him around the world

24:14

to watch him every time that he

24:14

comes back home to play in, you

24:17

know, for his country.

24:17

Everyone's expecting him to be

24:20

the best player. He certainly

24:20

spoke really well. And I can

24:25

remember asking him more or less

24:25

like, how are you as the first

24:30

question and he spoke for about

24:30

15 minutes about like software

24:33

so but it's all football career.

24:33

So it was actually like, so it

24:37

was a great podcast for me.

24:37

He's, you know, he's got so many

24:41

because it's such a great

24:41

insight in the game and

24:43

articulated it really, really

24:43

well that I could just tear him

24:47

up and off he went. Which was

24:47

great. But even even now, like

24:51

he still went obviously, when he

24:51

was at Swansea ended up moving,

24:54

didn't eat him moving on, and

24:54

even we've just we saw him last

24:58

year and not in forest than He's

24:58

still playing to such a high

25:02

level, regardless of age,

25:02

regardless of where he goes in

25:06

the world to play. Like, it's,

25:06

it's super, super impressive.

25:10

Yeah,

25:11

and I guess so then

25:11

there, he spoke around, I've got

25:15

his hair on hard working. So he

25:15

quoted as saying, I was always

25:19

working really hard physically,

25:19

anytime we used to run, I used

25:22

to be the highest run on the

25:22

team. And I just couple that

25:25

with another one, you mentioned

25:25

that you need to do more than

25:28

others, if you want to get more

25:28

than them. If you want to

25:30

succeed more, you have to do

25:30

more, you know, so actually

25:33

looking at that, and his, his

25:33

mindset, and then it's not

25:37

probably a hard to see how he

25:37

went on to really drive himself

25:42

to becoming, you know, a good

25:42

such a good player. He

25:46

mentioned, I was always, I was

25:46

always working really hard

25:49

physically, anytime we used to

25:49

run, I used to be the highest

25:53

run on the team, I'm just

25:53

coupling that with another thing

25:55

they said is you need to do more

25:55

than others, if you want to get

25:58

more than them. If you want to

25:58

succeed more, you have to do

26:02

more, you know. So looking at

26:02

his mindset, it's not hard to

26:05

see, you know, what drove him,

26:05

you know, how, how hard he

26:09

worked to actually achieve his

26:09

goals. So maybe that's why he's

26:12

been able to, you know, jump

26:12

between playing a couple of

26:16

seasons in the championship, but

26:16

still being ready to go and play

26:18

in Premier League football and,

26:18

you know, the journey that he

26:22

has been on in his career.

26:24

Yeah, it's

26:24

obvious that his standards have

26:27

been ingrained in him that there

26:27

needs to be high. And I think

26:31

like his mindset there about

26:31

being the best runner and do

26:35

more than everyone else. You

26:35

might not be the best runner

26:39

like you might not finish first,

26:39

every time you do a run or come

26:43

back to preseason, you do the yo

26:43

yo test of the bleep test. And

26:47

there might be other people who

26:47

are doing the same amount of

26:49

view after training or in the

26:49

gym or whatever. But just but

26:52

the mindset of I'm going to want

26:52

to be the best I want to do more

26:57

is only going to be of benefit

26:57

to you. And you don't have to

26:59

become like an unconscious that

26:59

you that we're sort of pushing

27:05

people into being competitive

27:05

with their teammates and that

27:07

sort of stuff. And that's that's

27:07

not really what it is. It's just

27:10

that it's just gone above and

27:10

beyond what's expected, I think

27:14

is the main thing that Andre is

27:14

talking about, like if you just

27:18

turn up to a training session,

27:18

and go home. And everybody knows

27:23

that that's not enough. It's not

27:23

enough if you're going to be

27:27

successful to just be told what

27:27

to do. I mean, if let's take the

27:31

top level athletes and Izzy

27:31

attainable to be like Cristiano

27:35

Ronaldo, most likely not. So

27:35

it's very difficult to be like,

27:38

I wouldn't just be like Ronaldo,

27:38

and everything's going to be

27:41

amazing. It's very, very

27:41

difficult. But it just goes

27:45

above and beyond what's expected

27:45

of him. Like he doesn't do just

27:48

what he's told. And most lads

27:48

that you'll find at elite

27:51

levels, that's how they work.

27:51

Like they don't they do more

27:54

than what they're asked they do.

27:54

They go home, and they live

27:57

their life, you know, as if they

27:57

were an elite athlete, which

28:01

they are, like, are you when no

28:01

one is watching you doing

28:06

exactly the same stuff or living

28:06

exactly the same life as what

28:09

you would be if your manager was

28:09

watching you. That if that if

28:12

you at all, if you had all the

28:12

supporters that go and watch you

28:15

on a match day, if they were

28:15

watching you eat dinner, or

28:19

recover or go to the gym? Like,

28:19

are you still hitting the same

28:23

levels than what you would? If

28:23

not, obviously, if no one was

28:28

watching, I think that's an

28:28

that's the mindset thing that

28:30

Andre is talking about. It's not

28:30

necessarily that like, Oh, if

28:33

you're not the best one in your

28:33

in your team, you're never going

28:35

to make it like that's not a

28:35

thing, right? Like I've some of

28:38

the best players I've played

28:38

with weren't great runners. But

28:41

it's the mindset of like wanting

28:41

to do more not wanting to be the

28:45

best. Like that has to be. And

28:45

if it isn't, you almost need to

28:50

sort of try and trick yourself

28:50

into, into thinking that it is

28:54

and that's maybe where the goal

28:54

setting stuff starts to come in

28:57

is like, No, I'm not the best of

28:57

my team at this. But I'm going

29:00

to set a goal to try and become

29:00

in the top five or, or whatever

29:05

it is, do whatever you need to

29:05

do, to trick yourself into into

29:10

going above and beyond what's

29:10

expected. And that's again, like

29:13

I'm talking about, we're talking

29:13

about football, but that's in

29:15

your own life. Like, are you

29:15

going above and beyond what's

29:18

expected of you? And if you

29:18

aren't, then do you care enough?

29:25

Yeah, and I think something else you mentioned there, and this is one I think

29:27

when I when I work with players,

29:29

and I think it's one of the most

29:29

important things as well as is

29:33

that consistency, the

29:33

consistency of you know, you

29:37

know, you might not want to go

29:37

to the gym today, but you got to

29:39

turn up, you're going to do what

29:39

you can do on that day. And you

29:42

got to make sure it's been

29:42

worthwhile and the consistency

29:44

of behaviours. You know, I think

29:44

goes a long way. So I think

29:49

that's that's something that I

29:49

encourage everyone it's a case

29:51

of, you know, it's not always

29:51

going to be like you say, you're

29:54

going to win the race or you're

29:54

going to be able to work 110%

29:57

That day, but I you You're

29:57

actually going and turning up

30:01

and making sure you're doing the

30:01

best you can on that day in that

30:04

moment. So I think that's

30:04

something, you know, actually a

30:07

real strong take home message

30:07

to, to aspiring players and

30:11

players that just want to get

30:11

better is that are you actually,

30:14

you know, are you being consistent with what you're doing? You know, are you are you

30:15

making sure that actually every

30:18

day is worthwhile? The next, the

30:18

next one I have here in Adam

30:26

Webster, and I guess you can

30:26

probably introduce him a lot

30:31

better than I can. I never spoke

30:42

I guess you're a dramatic pause.

30:47

Yeah, no, that was the first

30:47

quote I had. He actually, I

30:49

think, and leads quite nicely on

30:49

from what we were saying is, and

30:51

Adam spoke around, and maybe can

30:51

give him a bit of background in

30:55

your answer. And him but Adam

30:55

spoke around that, that hard

30:58

workers round. And once again,

30:58

if you're the hardest worker on

31:01

the team, you've always got a

31:01

chance, you know, and, and I

31:04

think, I guess, keeps coming

31:04

back out here, doesn't it that

31:08

actually you can have all the talent in the world, but you know, the most important thing

31:10

is around like how you are as a

31:14

player and how you actually, you

31:14

know, drive yourself to become

31:19

the best. And we're talking

31:19

about top players here, right?

31:22

Yeah, it's a

31:22

common theme, isn't it that,

31:25

like, you have to do more like

31:25

you're not working hard is

31:29

almost a given. Right? It's like

31:29

nobody gets a pat on the back

31:32

for working hard. Like if you're

31:32

an elite athlete, and you play

31:34

at the top level, or any

31:34

professional level, really,

31:36

you've worked hard in your life,

31:36

like that's the you know, the

31:40

statistics for nine year olds,

31:40

you make it professional is

31:42

naught point naught one

31:42

something, it's like, It's

31:45

bonkers. So, like, there's

31:45

people who've worked their ass

31:48

off, and we'll never make it

31:48

like it's working hard is we

31:52

make such a big deal out of

31:52

working hard, almost glamorises

31:55

the fact that you've that you've

31:55

got to work hard. It's not I

31:58

don't I don't think it should be

31:58

glamorised. I think it should be

32:01

almost a given. You know, I

32:01

mean, it's the stuff that you

32:04

have to deal with on the way

32:04

like that every oldest oldest

32:07

speed bumps in your life in your

32:07

journey, that are trying to make

32:11

it an easy Get Out of Jail Free

32:11

card to stop working hard.

32:15

That's the that's the difference. Like Adam Webster story. You might see Adam

32:17

Webster now when he's when he's

32:21

fit, playing for Brighton and

32:21

playing this great style of

32:24

football, he's so comfortable in

32:24

possession he's a great defender

32:27

him and Lewis dunk have managed

32:27

to get a really nice

32:31

relationship together, albeit

32:31

obviously Adams not fit at the

32:33

moment. So he's not playing. But

32:33

when he is fit, he plays you

32:38

might see that version of him

32:38

and think like, it's just there.

32:41

And nothing's happened to him to

32:41

get there. But it's if you

32:46

listen to that podcast, obviously I did without him again. He used to get absolutely

32:48

abused by Portsmouth fans when

32:53

he was a kid when he played like

32:53

no Portsmouth fans spoke, spoke

32:56

highly of them. No one's

32:56

positive to him. Like imagine

32:59

your Imagine you're a young guy

32:59

and everybody imports from a

33:02

phizzer isn't obviously as my

33:02

football team. So I know what

33:05

it's like that everybody in the

33:05

city who who obviously is like

33:09

supports the football club isn't

33:09

saying nice things about you.

33:14

That is just an enormous amount

33:14

of pressure. And and to deal

33:22

with when you're trying to make

33:22

it like it's lucky he managed to

33:26

to soak all that up and still

33:26

play and still play well and

33:31

still progress. And Ipswich

33:31

ended up buying him from

33:34

Portsmouth for however much

33:34

money it was like it's he went

33:38

from A to A to Bristol City for

33:38

for a few million pounds and

33:42

then went from Bristol City to

33:42

Brighton for 20 plus million

33:46

pounds. Like we're talking about

33:46

20 plus million pound player who

33:49

at one point had a full

33:49

supporter fan base, not thinking

33:53

he was good enough. It's like so

33:53

so when we're talking about Adam

33:56

Webstar and I actually love

33:56

talking about him because one

33:59

he's amazing guy and to his

33:59

story is so relatable is like no

34:03

one thought he was good. But

34:03

look, but look at him now. But

34:07

so we're talking about hard

34:07

work. Like it's easy to work

34:09

hard. It's easy to work hard

34:09

when when everyone's telling you

34:12

that you're amazing. It's easy

34:12

to work hard when you're the

34:14

best player in your in your

34:14

academy and everyone thinks that

34:16

you're you're great. And by the

34:16

way, Adam Webster played for

34:19

England youth team when he was

34:19

opposing flair so so he must

34:22

have known that internally. He

34:22

must have known that he was

34:24

good. Like everybody at

34:24

Portsmouth was telling me he was

34:26

a good player in terms of the

34:26

coaching staff and his

34:28

teammates. They all knew what he

34:28

was capable of. But for whatever

34:32

reason, on a match day support

34:32

has just had an opinion of him.

34:35

And he was also playing out position. He was playing at fullback and he's a centre back,

34:36

which is very, very difficult.

34:39

But imagine you've got all that

34:39

negative cloud over your head,

34:44

which as a young player, if you

34:44

feel like supporters don't like

34:47

you that can affect you

34:47

enormously. I know it would have

34:50

done me and he managed to do all

34:50

that he managed to take all of

34:54

that and continue to work hard

34:54

when it would have been easier

34:59

to just walk way and so this

34:59

this is this is more difficult

35:02

than what I thought it was going

35:02

to be I'm not going to do it and

35:04

now he's he's not only is he is

35:04

he an exceptionally talented

35:07

football player but he's got a

35:07

wonderful life for his family is

35:10

you know is got young daughter

35:10

is announced yesterday he's got

35:15

another one on the way on social

35:15

media which, which is incredible

35:18

and saw like, obviously

35:18

congratulations to him and his

35:21

missus. But he now lives the

35:21

life that everybody dreams of

35:25

living because he worked hard

35:25

when it was easier to quit. And

35:29

I think that that as a store it

35:29

now with some of the

35:31

conversations we've had with

35:31

these guys. We're now a year and

35:35

a half, two years on from those

35:35

conversations and you can almost

35:38

see their development and their

35:38

progression off the back of the

35:43

things that they said and and

35:43

the mindset that they have. But

35:46

think yeah, like obviously Jack,

35:46

Andre and Adam, were the first

35:50

two conversations that we shared

35:50

with people and their elite

35:52

athletes and their elite

35:52

athletes for a reason. This

35:55

because they can keep their head

35:55

down and work hard when she like

35:57

shifts up against it. And, and

35:57

it would be easier. Like I said,

36:01

it'd be easier for for him to

36:01

walk away. We didn't announce

36:04

him enough. I just love talking

36:04

about it. Because what an

36:07

incredible story.

36:10

Yeah, no, no,

36:10

definitely, definitely. And

36:12

something you you mentioned

36:12

there around, you know, coming

36:14

through and not playing your

36:14

position. So I've got a quote

36:18

here from Adam saying,

36:18

obviously, I wanted to play but

36:20

my best my best position was

36:20

centre half, but I wasn't ready

36:24

to play centre half. So I had to

36:24

learn the game and went back to

36:27

fall back. You know, so I think

36:27

actually, sometimes it's taken

36:31

for granted Isn't it like

36:31

actually how important it is

36:34

just to be a student of the game

36:34

to be able to understand

36:36

different positions to be able

36:36

to, he knew that he wanted to

36:40

belong term via centre half, but

36:40

for him to play has, he had to

36:43

play a fullback and he had to

36:43

learn that position and maximise

36:46

himself in that position. And

36:46

then probably that actually

36:48

ended up helping him in the long

36:48

run from going through that

36:52

process.

36:54

Absolutely. And

36:54

it's very difficult that you

36:58

very difficult that you know, at

36:58

the time, what's good for you

37:01

that like Adam would have been

37:01

playing fullback and probably in

37:04

the back of his mind be thinking

37:04

I want to play centre back, it's

37:07

only now that you look back on

37:07

those experiences and, and

37:10

thinks like, oh, it's it's a

37:10

good job, I did that actually

37:12

because then I learned this or I

37:12

gained more experience in that.

37:17

So it's I think it's so

37:17

important that because you know

37:20

everybody it's very very

37:20

difficult to see at the time,

37:25

why something is going to

37:25

benefit you like I could play in

37:28

the wrong position. All I would

37:28

do is moan about it. Because at

37:32

the at that time I feel I feel a

37:32

certain way about that

37:34

experience that I'm having and

37:34

then a month or two later I'd be

37:37

like I remember that experience

37:37

like I actually learned quite a

37:40

lot from that and and and I

37:40

managed to deal with those

37:43

negative feelings that I had so

37:43

yeah, I'm pleased myself for

37:45

that so but you can't see it in

37:45

the moment so what would it

37:48

solve implore? Anyone you know

37:48

especially young guys to do is

37:53

to not not be too judgmental

37:53

over any experience that they

37:56

have like how can you how can

37:56

you take what's just happened or

38:00

what is about to happen or what

38:00

is happening and help it benefit

38:04

you in the long run it's so easy

38:04

to just that Adam could have

38:07

quite easily just said like oh

38:07

no I'm not fall back and I'm not

38:10

doing it and find yourself out

38:10

of the team you never get in the

38:13

team and it's your whole career

38:13

looks completely different but

38:17

you managed to to soak up every

38:17

experience that he had and use

38:22

it to his benefit and it's only

38:22

years later obviously now that

38:24

he's speaking about it positively but I'm sure at the time it was tough for him but

38:26

this again like falls into the

38:29

like how can you deal with

38:29

things that make you feel

38:33

negative any any and he's a

38:33

perfect is a glowing example of

38:38

somebody took chips whole life

38:38

It wasn't easy and now he's

38:44

doing amazing things and he's

38:44

doing amazing things because he

38:46

because he's because he deserves

38:46

it and he worked and he worked

38:49

for it

38:52

yeah and I guess also

38:52

how important like learning fish

38:56

being a student you know

38:56

continuing to learn as as well

38:58

you know he's learner he's

38:58

learned to play a new position

39:01

and it's probably helped him in

39:01

actually becoming the second

39:04

half he is a brighten by he's

39:04

also mentioned here around you

39:09

know the other bits and pieces

39:09

around the game is nutrition is

39:12

sleep and he said my knowledge

39:12

of stuff like nutrition my

39:17

knowledge of stuff like

39:17

nutrition and that was right

39:20

wasn't good. I used to eat

39:20

chocolate and squashes every day

39:25

and any emotion anyone can learn

39:25

how to eat right and train

39:28

properly I hope I've got that

39:28

right and it's just not I guess

39:33

the message here is it used to

39:33

just you know not not eat right

39:38

not drink right you know maybe

39:38

not asleep right but attain how

39:42

important that stuff is but how

39:42

that anyone can learn it you

39:45

know it's not you know, it's not

39:45

necessarily something you think

39:49

oh, I don't I can't learn how to

39:49

do that like that you can and

39:53

how much he actually ended up

39:53

going on benefiting you.

39:56

Yeah, it's not

39:56

VIP members club. Is it like

39:59

being held The it's like it's

39:59

all these information is

40:02

attainable. And obviously this

40:02

like without trying to plug

40:05

ourselves too much like a

40:05

performance is, you know, at the

40:08

forefront of that really people

40:08

can use the information that we

40:11

give them to be the best version

40:11

of themselves in in terms of

40:14

being a football player. But

40:14

like if you if anybody follows

40:16

Adam online now, not sure if

40:16

it'll be a personal account or

40:20

is I think it's his personal

40:20

account. So forgive me a lot of

40:23

people won't know this. But

40:23

he's, he's really into his food.

40:25

Like he's always he's always

40:25

cooking great things and and

40:28

he's probably taken obviously

40:28

that interest of like, How can I

40:31

actually make myself better now

40:31

to do something he's like, his

40:34

big part of his life is

40:34

obviously like making making

40:37

different different dinners and

40:37

learning about different ways of

40:39

cooking. And it's not rocket

40:39

science is it to know what's

40:44

good for you, and what's bad for you, like, there's enough information out there now that

40:45

can help you and don't get me

40:48

wrong, like a like a cheat meal

40:48

and a packet of biscuits more

40:52

than anyone. But when I was an

40:52

A, now, I could probably get

40:56

away with more now than what I

40:56

used to, I'm certainly conscious

41:00

that I'm not playing as much

41:00

football as I am. So I have to

41:02

change my diet slightly. But

41:02

it's a yes, that just everything

41:08

that comes with being an elite

41:08

athlete, like we're, so

41:11

obviously, we're just touched on

41:11

mindset we've touched on dealing

41:14

with with negative things that

41:14

dealt with their lives touched

41:17

on hard work, but lifestyles,

41:17

like just lifestyle is enormous.

41:21

Like, it's not even necessarily

41:21

having one good meal. But what's

41:25

your lifestyle, like, like, a

41:25

lot of people that and

41:29

especially as this this time of

41:29

year, and when this probably

41:31

gets shared, in the new year,

41:31

it's a perfect time and

41:34

everybody goes, right, I'm gonna

41:34

go the gym, or I'm going to eat

41:36

better, I'm gonna do this, I'm

41:36

gonna do that. And it's those

41:39

habits that you want to try and

41:39

create, to get the best out of

41:42

yourself, you have to try and

41:42

turn it into your lifestyle.

41:47

Like if and I don't know how

41:47

many days I'm sure it's

41:49

something like 10 days or 14

41:49

days, maybe two weeks of that if

41:53

you do something every day, it

41:53

suddenly starts to become a

41:55

habit or if you stop eating a

41:55

certain something, after a

41:58

certain amount of time your body

41:58

starts to crave it AND, and OR

42:01

stops craving it and things like

42:01

that. So there are obviously

42:04

methods that people can use, if

42:04

they want to do it badly enough.

42:09

But yeah, I think I would, I

42:09

would definitely default into

42:12

the word lifestyle and, and what

42:12

is your lifestyle look like? And

42:15

what was your sleep look like?

42:15

And I don't mean, you once upon

42:18

a time had a conversation about

42:18

sleep and, and what that looks

42:21

like, but food, sleep, all the

42:21

things that you don't actually

42:24

have to be a technically gifted

42:24

footballer to do? Like, what's

42:28

your lifestyle look like? There's so important.

42:32

Yeah. So our next guest

42:32

we had here was, was Nathan

42:36

Dyer. And, you know, we spoke

42:36

about how important you know,

42:42

going out and having that that

42:42

mindset and going out on loan

42:46

and how you take on that loan,

42:46

like Nathan was the recipient of

42:51

an unbelievable loan, you know,

42:51

he's, he's gone out on loan to

42:54

Leicester, then he ends up

42:54

winning the Premier League, and

42:57

there's probably something like

42:57

going out on that loan, he

43:00

didn't really think that was

43:00

possibly even possible. In most

43:03

of us football as people like

43:03

football, we didn't think that

43:06

at the time, but just showing

43:06

how actually every opportunity

43:09

is or every you know, stage has

43:09

an opportunity. And, you know,

43:14

so So Nathan was, was our next

43:14

guest, and just scrolling

43:19

through some of his quotes here.

43:19

And, and he said the same thing

43:22

around, you know, for, for me

43:22

personally, it was just about

43:27

preparation, make sure that I

43:27

was hydrated, make sure that I

43:30

done all of the stuff ready, and

43:30

I wasn't flapping around, you

43:34

know, around naturally. Those

43:34

bits and pieces to allow him to

43:38

perform and be ready. Then he

43:38

also spoke about young players

43:42

learning and what you have to do

43:42

is watch games, watch other

43:46

people train other teams playing

43:46

on TV and see how they do things

43:49

and see how they integrate into

43:49

your game. You know, once again,

43:52

being a student of the game and

43:52

looking to learn from those

43:57

around you all the time.

44:00

Yeah, I've

44:00

really enjoyed that conversation

44:02

with Nathan, I thought he was a

44:02

great guy. And obviously, I

44:05

mean, he told me about him

44:05

before and I've got another

44:08

mutual friend with Nathan that

44:08

knows him and spoke very highly

44:10

of him. But like he, I think he

44:10

again is a shining example of

44:14

not like football is not one

44:14

size fits. All right. Nathan is

44:17

a small player lucky. And in an

44:17

era of football where it was it

44:21

was difficult to be a size and

44:21

and he managed to have an

44:24

unbelievable career like he's

44:24

such a technically gifted guy

44:29

played obviously in a in a team

44:29

grew up in a team at

44:32

Southampton. Obviously that

44:32

played to his style of playing

44:35

the Swansea team to play to his style. So I think that's important that you find the

44:37

right place for your game and

44:42

your attributes and he obviously

44:42

managed to do that which which

44:44

is great, but you sort of

44:44

started talking there might

44:47

obviously by by talking about

44:47

his loan to Lester, and I don't

44:50

know if I don't know if if this

44:50

came out in the podcast or not.

44:55

Or maybe saved it for afterwards

44:55

and I saw remember thinking God

44:59

naifa I wish he had told us that

44:59

like on the record, and I hope

45:03

I'm not obviously like to go and

45:03

be on his back or whatever. And

45:07

but when we finished recording,

45:07

or maybe it is on the podcast, I

45:10

can't really remember. But his

45:10

load experience at Leicester

45:14

albeit finished with him when

45:14

Gavin a Premier League winners

45:18

medal is he didn't play that

45:18

much. So he said he actually

45:23

found it really, really

45:23

difficult. Like that year, less

45:26

than were winning. Most games,

45:26

obviously, because they ended up

45:30

as champions. He was living away

45:30

from his from his family. And he

45:36

wasn't contributing that much on

45:36

a max day, he said, so

45:38

regardless of, of obviously,

45:38

what was happening, he said he

45:41

wasn't really that much

45:41

involved. And so everybody would

45:45

always, I'm sure say to him, and

45:45

myself included, God, how

45:49

unbelievable. Most of that been,

45:49

when he went on to Leicester and

45:51

they won the Premier League like

45:51

would have been now well would

45:53

have been awesome. But I myself

45:53

can relate terms. I've been in

45:57

environments where my team is

45:57

winning, but I'm not

46:01

contributing. And it doesn't, it

46:01

doesn't feel like you've done it

46:05

almost doesn't feel like you

46:05

like you, you sort of deserve

46:09

it. Maybe like he is a premier

46:09

league winners medal. And I'm

46:12

sorry, you know, I'm sure it

46:12

takes pride in place. And so it

46:15

should like it's an unbelievable

46:15

achievement. But I remember him

46:18

actually saying that he managed

46:18

that he really found that period

46:21

of time difficult. Whereas

46:21

everybody's I'm sure everybody's

46:24

natural perception of him would

46:24

be the, it was just the most

46:27

amazing time in his life to me.

46:32

Yeah, definitely. And

46:32

that's what this I guess that's

46:35

the other side, we've mentioned

46:35

a few times the other side of

46:37

football, you know, people

46:37

looking from outside to inside,

46:40

maybe misses and doesn't see

46:40

it's, it's around how, you know

46:45

how challenging it can be, and

46:45

you think things are brilliant,

46:48

but actually, you know, everyone

46:48

has individual, everyone's, you

46:51

know, individuals part of a

46:51

team, and everyone is

46:53

experiencing those experiences

46:53

very different. And I just I've

46:57

got, I've got a quote here, or

46:57

just, you know, we've hopefully

47:02

not being too cliche with all

47:02

this. But we've just been

47:04

speaking about how important

47:04

hard work is, and all that side

47:07

of things. But Nathan being

47:07

probably, you know, a very

47:11

different character in terms of

47:11

personality, and he spoke about

47:15

coming through and about how I

47:15

was just enjoying it every day,

47:19

just going out there and wanting

47:19

to do to kick the ball around. I

47:23

never put any stress upon myself

47:23

for anybody. So just around,

47:27

like, you know, sometimes it is

47:27

around remembering what you fell

47:31

in love with the game for and

47:31

being able to enjoy yourself.

47:35

And you know, not put this

47:35

stress or the pressure on and

47:39

actually ends up bringing the

47:39

best out of you and making sure

47:43

that you can, you can find that

47:43

in those moments. And, you know,

47:47

it is a job for a lot of people.

47:47

Maybe it's not that making it

47:52

become a job that, you know, you

47:52

start to resent because you're

47:55

going out there but finding why

47:55

you enjoy playing football in

47:58

the first place. Yeah, so

47:58

continuing on Nathan and I'm

48:01

having I'm not gonna be too

48:01

cliche with what I'm going to

48:04

say here, like we've been

48:04

speaking about hard work and you

48:06

know, how you have to be driven

48:06

and goal setting and all that

48:08

side of things. But, you know,

48:08

also knowing Nathan's

48:12

personality and you know who he

48:12

is, he obviously articulates

48:16

really well around when he was

48:16

coming through and when he

48:18

plays, I was enjoying every day,

48:18

just going out there and wanting

48:23

to kick football around, I never

48:23

put anything stressful for

48:26

myself or anybody. So I just

48:26

think, you know how, actually,

48:30

it's, it's really important to

48:30

define the enjoyment in in what

48:34

you do to find enjoyment in

48:34

actually playing and how, you

48:39

know, taking away the fact that

48:39

for some people is a job for

48:42

some people, you know, it's

48:42

going to be challenging, you're

48:45

gonna have to work hard, but

48:45

finding you know, actually the

48:47

inspiration of when you were a

48:47

young kid why you got into

48:50

football and we enjoyed it so

48:50

much. And Nathan obviously

48:53

speaks around that and as seen

48:53

how important it is for him.

48:58

It was actually really refreshing to hear and talk about football like that

49:00

because I mean, from my

49:04

perspective, and probably 90% of

49:04

the teammates that I have sort

49:08

of lose that love when when it

49:08

becomes you know, when you

49:12

become a professional it becomes

49:12

a little bit more serious and

49:15

matchday pressure starts to play

49:15

a part on how you feel and stuff

49:21

it's like it's not it's not as

49:21

fun to be honest. I've stopped

49:26

enjoying football a long time

49:26

ago. But Nathan obviously maybe

49:31

played a position in which it

49:31

was you know, he was a creative

49:34

player he played it played in a

49:34

role where you had to maybe it

49:37

was more enjoyable I mean my

49:37

role for the most part of my

49:42

career has been to stop other

49:42

people's fun is that you know as

49:45

a defender you don't you don't

49:45

create you know those those

49:49

moments you try and stop them so

49:49

it's that maybe Nathe obviously

49:52

as a as a winger as a forward

49:52

thinking player as an attacking

49:55

midfielder that he was able to

49:55

hold on to that freedom for a

49:59

little bit. longer, but I think

49:59

that's, it's very, very

50:02

difficult to do that, really, in

50:02

this in this modern game because

50:07

there's so much pressure that

50:07

comes with being a foot below in

50:10

terms of your livelihood. Like

50:10

we're talking about your

50:13

lifestyle, like how you live,

50:13

how you live a support your

50:16

family and things like that. And

50:16

it's not an easy industry to be

50:21

in. And yeah, I would argue that

50:21

most people forget what it was

50:26

that made them that good at

50:26

football in the first place. And

50:29

ultimately, that is just because

50:29

we all love it. So yeah, there

50:33

Nathan speak about football,

50:33

like that was was refreshing

50:36

enough, you know, I'd love to

50:36

sit here and tell everybody

50:39

that, that you should play with

50:39

freedom, and you should enjoy

50:42

it. And you should do this. And you should do that. But it's just that's not real. Like,

50:44

that's not, that doesn't happen.

50:47

Like, like I love. I used to

50:47

love training. It's the love

50:51

training, training, or like,

50:51

obviously still do now like I

50:53

love training sessions, bought

50:53

on a match day. I don't enjoy it

50:57

like winning. Winning for me as

50:57

a is more of a relief than it is

51:02

than it is enjoyment. Like

51:02

celebrating, obviously big wins

51:06

and whatever else. Like

51:06

obviously you had a nice

51:09

moments, but when we score feel

51:09

real, I feel relief. I don't

51:13

feel elation, if that makes

51:13

sense. I don't know if that I'm

51:16

the only person who feels that

51:16

maybe I'm just like one of not

51:21

very many. But I think it's very

51:21

difficult to hold on to the fact

51:25

that you love the game when it

51:25

becomes your profession.

51:29

And I guess that's

51:29

really insightful, and, you

51:32

know, really important to be

51:32

able to see maybe both sides of

51:36

it the both sides of you know,

51:36

like, how it is tough? And how

51:40

is it how it is challenging?

51:40

And, you know, obviously, trying

51:46

to look back on that enjoyment

51:46

why you started, why you enjoy

51:50

playing? And it's great,

51:50

obviously, to hear Nathan talk

51:55

like that, and maybe it's

51:55

something that, you know, yeah,

51:59

I don't know, maybe it's maybe

51:59

it's the game, maybe it's just

52:02

going down the fact that it

52:02

becomes too much pressure, too

52:05

much stress too much, you know,

52:05

organisation too much being on

52:08

it. And I guess if you're

52:08

talking about that whole, that

52:13

whole weekly side of things, and

52:13

just making sure that you know,

52:17

finding some sort of enjoyment

52:17

from the game still, even if

52:21

that is just your training

52:21

sessions and being around the

52:23

lads and, and having those

52:23

moments and when the game comes

52:26

just sort of accepting the fact

52:26

that this might not be as

52:29

enjoyable. But you know, part of

52:29

the part of it and I'm going to

52:32

do why can't perform?

52:35

Yeah, are they

52:35

something that that I know I've

52:38

done in my life and other people

52:38

do as you as you create

52:42

something or you have something

52:42

or you you've put something

52:45

somewhere that reminds you of

52:45

what it is that you're doing,

52:48

like I I have a free match thing

52:48

that I do on the pitch that

52:53

reminds me of, ultimately how

52:53

lucky I am to be able to play,

52:57

it's like it might be something

52:57

you have on your boots, it might

53:01

just be something like a no lads

53:01

where risk tape or whatever it

53:04

is like it might be that you

53:04

wear a certain item of clothing,

53:08

like a certain pair of pants, or

53:08

an Under Armour or baseline or

53:10

whatever it is that you that

53:10

reminds you that like, you play

53:15

this game for for a reason. This

53:15

is how you felt about it when

53:19

you were younger. And it helps

53:19

relieve maybe a little bit of

53:22

stress a little bit pressure. I

53:22

know it certainly does for me

53:24

that when I've big football up

53:24

sort of most days, and I feel

53:29

pressure and, and stuff like

53:29

that sort of like what I do

53:32

before a game reminds me that

53:32

I've been through career

53:35

threatening injuries that my

53:35

life might have been much

53:37

different, and I'm still able to

53:37

play. Albeit whatever level it

53:41

is, I'm still able to play. So

53:41

to appreciate it and to try and

53:46

enjoy. It doesn't always happen.

53:46

Obviously it doesn't mean you

53:48

don't always enjoy and enjoy it

53:48

but solver reminder that like

53:53

there's worse things to do in

53:53

the world that play football,

53:55

you know. And that we're well,

53:55

we're all certainly very lucky

53:59

to be able to do so. And then

53:59

we're obviously getting into the

54:01

finer details about what makes

54:01

you a leader what makes you

54:04

successful and stuff like that.

54:04

But albeit like that one quote

54:08

from Nathan, that's the reason

54:08

why it's so refreshing is it

54:10

sort of just brings everybody

54:10

back to this is actually why I

54:13

play. And then you can almost

54:13

reset yourself into thinking

54:17

right? Yeah, remember why I do

54:17

it. And now I'm going to now I'm

54:20

going to go into all the detail

54:20

as to what's going to make me

54:23

the best I

54:26

put in and I guess

54:26

that's a nice, nicer place to

54:28

finish this little review

54:28

section on. Joe, Thanks for

54:34

Thanks for joining us. Thanks

54:34

for coming on and I know you're

54:36

busy guy these days and you know

54:36

spending bit of time just going

54:39

through these and reviewing them

54:39

and trying to the the listeners.

54:46

Yeah, I hope so.

54:46

I mean, conscious. I don't know

54:50

how an episode like this will

54:50

will go down. It's sort of like

54:53

reviewing conversations that

54:53

have already happened, but it's

54:56

always nice to reflect isn't it

54:56

and go back over like some of

54:59

the highlights that people I've

54:59

spoken about and I think what's

55:01

what's massive, like what will

55:01

resonate for me over the next

55:04

few days and probably into the

55:04

new year is the numbers that you

55:07

spoke about at the start of how

55:07

many people actually listened to

55:10

us and, and hopefully how many

55:10

people we've had a positive

55:13

benefit on off. Like I just

55:13

stuck, I can't really get my

55:15

head round the scale in which

55:15

that is because when we first

55:20

saw after doing something like

55:20

this, and the first

55:23

conversations, I can't remember

55:23

where I was sat when we first

55:25

spoke about it, like, could

55:25

never have imagined that we that

55:29

people with 50 Different

55:29

countries will listen to us and

55:32

over 700 people have us on the

55:32

top list of their most listened

55:35

to podcasts on nothing, that's

55:35

just Spotify, the same isn't it.

55:39

So it's Spotify, I just got

55:39

three pretty overwhelmed really

55:42

with, with, with the numbers.

55:42

And, you know, and hopefully

55:46

beyond this, and I know life is

55:46

life and a lot of things get in

55:50

the way of different people and

55:50

and hopefully we can continue to

55:54

do this and to bring positive

55:54

football stories and experiences

55:57

to people that can that can help

55:57

benefit their own games. And not

56:01

only that, but give people a

56:01

real insight because I know not

56:03

everybody who listens to this

56:03

podcast is a player and give

56:06

people a real insight and so to

56:06

what players and people are

56:09

going through and I'm it's just

56:09

awesome. I think it's sort of

56:13

like a credit tonight. Obviously

56:13

in the last however many months

56:15

that you've managed to continue

56:15

to have conversations that

56:18

people will be online and stuff.

56:18

It's just like you've done an

56:22

incredible job mate. So thank

56:22

you for for taking over for me

56:24

when when it was obviously

56:24

difficult for me to do so. And

56:28

hopefully in the new year we can

56:28

combine on on things a little

56:30

bit more together and keep

56:30

bringing people obviously

56:33

content that they that they

56:33

liked listening to hence the

56:37

hence the numbers.

56:39

Yeah, brilliant. And I

56:39

guess once again, thank you for

56:42

connection technologies, once

56:42

again supporting us this year

56:45

and 2023 and it's really helped

56:45

to keep this podcast going and

56:50

touching as many people as we

56:50

could do. Nice, well done. Nice