0:00

Michael Popak with the legal AF hot take.

0:02

Who is person number 16? Number

0:05

16 out of about 40 or 50 different

0:08

witnesses that the FBI investigated as

0:10

part of the Mar-a-Lago criminal prosecution

0:12

of Donald Trump. We

0:14

now have their interview notes. Sure.

0:16

They're heavily redacted, but I can

0:18

figure it out. I can't tell

0:20

you who person 16 is, although

0:23

I can give you their demographics

0:25

and their background. But I can

0:27

tell you what they said, including

0:29

the new bombshell that Walt Nauta,

0:31

yes, the valet butler at Mar-a-Lago

0:33

was told by Donald Trump, according

0:35

to person 16, that if

0:37

he lied to the FBI about moving

0:39

boxes around to hide them from the

0:42

search warrant and from the subpoena, uh,

0:44

at Mar-a-Lago, you know, the national defense

0:46

information and the classified documents that belong

0:48

to you and me, he would get

0:51

a pardon if Donald Trump were reelected

0:53

in 2024.

0:55

That explains why Walt Nauta, whose lawyer

0:57

is paid for by Donald Trump, Stan

0:59

Woodward, is not

1:01

cooperating with the prosecutors, but is going

1:03

to go down with the ship. No

1:06

pun intended for a former naval officer

1:08

or a naval, uh, petty officer. So

1:10

we have the notes that the FBI

1:12

typed up for number 16 and guess

1:15

how we got them. This

1:17

FBI, uh, uh, interview

1:20

statement was provided as is required

1:22

by the prosecutors, special counsel's office

1:24

to Trump and Trump attached

1:27

it to one of his motions, but

1:29

redacted it and sealed it. And the

1:32

judge, judge counted down in Florida has

1:34

unsealed it because well, we live in

1:36

a world where we like to have

1:38

our criminal cases and prosecutions done in

1:40

the open and not in a black

1:42

box and not be opaque and be

1:44

more transparent. And so I get my

1:46

hands on the interview

1:48

notes. Let me

1:50

tell you about 16. I'm not sure

1:52

exactly who it is. It's not a lawyer.

1:54

I can tell you that it's a person

1:56

who had access to Donald Trump and frequently

1:58

visited the White House. during the 2016 to

2:01

2020 time

2:03

period had basically open access to

2:06

Donald Trump, visited him at Mar-a-Lago,

2:09

visited him in his personal residence at

2:11

Mar-a-Lago, and tried to counsel Donald Trump,

2:13

not as a lawyer, but apparently as

2:16

an advisor, to return all of the

2:18

boxes to the National Archive. Stop

2:20

playing games. This person said,

2:23

don't give the government a noble excuse

2:25

to claim that you are withholding documents

2:28

and to prosecute you because they will.

2:31

That was true. And also

2:33

in the interview that went on for a

2:35

number of hours was not sworn because the

2:37

person didn't want to give it under oath,

2:39

but was very telling as to the information.

2:42

This person says, not only was Donald Trump

2:44

told by those around him to

2:46

return the documents and stop screwing around, Donald

2:48

Trump said back to person number 16, how

2:51

do they even know about all the documents that

2:54

I have in my possession, right? All the

2:56

hoarding of American top secret classified

2:58

documents. How do they even know about that?

3:01

This person also said that with Donald

3:03

Trump, you have to have multiple people

3:05

come to him with the same messaging

3:07

and information in order for him to

3:09

do it. And usually the kids, Ivanka,

3:14

Don Jr., or Eric have to go to

3:16

Donald Trump and say, dad, you got to

3:18

return all the boxes to like the American

3:20

people or some, you know, that's my artist

3:22

rendering some version of that. 16

3:25

is most dabbing against Walt Nauta person

3:28

16. I'm going to try to get

3:30

to the bottom of who this person is, who's a

3:32

non-lawyer from what I can tell, no privilege implicated said

3:35

points like the Walt Nauta was promised

3:38

by the Trump people, Trump

3:40

world, that if he lies for the

3:42

president to the FBI, he'll get a

3:44

pardon. I mean, if

3:46

that's not obstruction of justice, I

3:48

don't know what is all the people that are

3:50

jumping up and down on the other side of

3:53

the aisle. And I have friends that are Republicans

3:55

that are saying it's a witch hunt. It's election

3:57

interference. I said, well, don't nominate a guy who

3:59

commits. as indicted and you

4:01

won't have a problem with the criminal

4:03

justice system trying to interfere with the

4:05

election results. How's that? Is there

4:07

anybody else that you can nominate? Let's

4:10

go back to person 16. Person

4:13

16 also visited Donald Trump at Trump Tower

4:15

as well. Mar-a-Lago, Trump Tower,

4:17

Ben Minster, the Oval

4:20

Office. This person had tremendous

4:22

access. As

4:24

to the boxes, this

4:27

person knew that Trump

4:30

had not returned and multiple people had tried

4:32

to convince Trump

4:34

to return the records. Read from

4:36

page 7 of the interview, this

4:38

person said that in late October, early November

4:40

of 2021, person 16 made an appeal to

4:43

Trump on a conference

4:46

call and told him,

4:49

quote, whatever you have, give it

4:51

all back. A

4:53

witness also says that Trump wanted to know

4:56

how anyone knew about the issue and Trump

4:58

was informed it was all documented in writing.

5:01

The response was essentially, it was

5:03

essentially, we'll check and think about it. This

5:06

witness was unsure whose idea it was

5:08

to have that call, but there was

5:10

a conference call. So again, this goes

5:12

to Ben Drea, criminal mind of Donald

5:14

Trump. He's being told, he's being advised,

5:16

he's being messaged that he needs to

5:19

return the documents and he doesn't do

5:21

it. And person 16, while we don't

5:23

know who their identity is right now,

5:25

we will at trial when

5:27

they're brought in through the back door and

5:29

testify against Donald Trump. Have

5:31

you heard of cancer fighting foods?

5:33

The American Cancer Society discovered diets

5:35

rich in fruits and veggies may

5:37

actually lower your risk of cancer. Hopefully

5:40

you hear this and run to the store for

5:42

five servings of fruits and vegetables every day. If

5:45

not, you should consider adding field

5:47

of greens to your daily health

5:49

regimen. Each fruit and veggie and

5:52

field of greens was doctor selected

5:54

for studied health benefits. There's a

5:56

heart health group, lungs, kidneys, and

5:58

metabolism groups, even healthy. Wait, what

6:01

your body needs is an each scoop

6:03

of delicious Field of Greens. Will

6:06

Field of Greens prevent, treat, or

6:08

cure cancer? Nope. But

6:10

it's so powerful, it promises that your

6:12

next checkup, your doctor will notice your

6:14

improved health or your money back. I'm

6:17

pleased to report that I was able to get our listeners 15%

6:20

off and free Rush shipping. Visit

6:22

fieldofgreens.com and use promo code LEGALAF

6:25

for your discount. That's

6:27

promo code LEGALAF at

6:29

fieldofgreens.com. Field of

6:31

greens dot com. I want to move

6:34

to in the interview notes, this

6:36

comment that's also been reported in the media.

6:40

Page eight of the, or

6:43

actually page seven of the interview, where

6:45

person 16 who met with Donald

6:48

Trump again at Mar-a-Lago

6:50

while he was dressed in quote,

6:52

golf attire, told Trump quote, whatever

6:54

you have, give everything back. Let

6:57

me come here and get everything. Let me do

6:59

it for you. Don't give them

7:02

a noble reason to indict you because they

7:04

will. And Trump

7:06

provided to this witness a weird,

7:08

you're the man type of response.

7:11

So now I think it's a male, number 16. And

7:15

that person 16 walked away from the 15

7:17

minute meeting with the impression that Trump was

7:19

going to return the records to the National

7:22

Archive and we know that didn't happen. Now

7:24

as to the, so that's where

7:27

witness 16, this male who has lots

7:29

of access to Donald Trump, who is

7:31

not a lawyer, who is moving in

7:34

his world at Mar-a-Lago, Bedminster, also back

7:36

up in the Oval Office. We'll get

7:38

to the bottom of person 16. Now

7:43

there's also a comment by number 16

7:45

about the lawyers around Donald Trump. So

7:48

on page eight of the interview, he

7:52

says that person 16, which

7:54

is the focus of this hot take, says

7:57

that somebody labeled as person five is

7:59

a total. moron, whom

8:01

this person 16 first met

8:03

at the White House, that person

8:06

five went and leveraged access

8:08

to the White House, and that Trump

8:10

used to avoid person five in the

8:13

White House, and that person five worked

8:15

with somebody. And that after January 2021,

8:17

person five constantly sent

8:20

Trump what had been uncovered

8:22

on the election fraud and

8:25

maneuvered that into POTUS's circle.

8:27

I'm going to unveil, I believe,

8:29

I'm going to reveal or unveil

8:33

person five. I think that's Cindy Powell. I

8:35

think all this discussion about somebody's a moron

8:37

who tried to use election fraud to get

8:39

into Trump's inner circle, it was ignored as

8:42

much as they could by

8:44

Donald Trump. That rings to me

8:46

of the truth of Cindy Powell.

8:50

This person also said that Donald Trump hired Jim Trustee

8:52

as his lawyer because he liked the way he looked

8:54

on TV. Then he hired another

8:56

lawyer because he liked the way he or she

8:58

dressed. I have a feeling it's a she. I'm

9:01

looking at you, Alina Hava. So

9:04

person 16 like knows a lot like a fly on

9:06

the wall here. And then this is

9:08

the part that's the most damning on page nine of

9:10

the 10 page interview. Person

9:12

16 testified

9:15

to the FBI that

9:17

Nauda, Walt Nauda, the co-conspirator in

9:20

Mar-a-Lago, the Butler valet was told

9:22

by Trump's people that this investigation

9:24

was not going anywhere, the Mar-a-Lago

9:26

one, and it was politically motivated

9:29

and much adieu about nothing. And

9:31

they listened to this one. Nauda was also

9:33

told that if even if he gets charged

9:36

with lying to the FBI, Trump

9:38

will part him in

9:40

2024. Okay, so I

9:44

think you have that witness coming in,

9:46

being identified in front of a jury

9:48

who's going to establish not only the

9:50

criminal mind and men's ray of Donald

9:52

Trump, he's going to cook Walt

9:55

Nauda's goose, and they're going to

9:57

use this ability to pardon or this this

10:00

telegraphing this witness tampering to Walt

10:02

Nauta, lie for the president,

10:04

he'll take care of you, which

10:06

is very consistent with what we've already heard. Somebody

10:10

like Yuseal Tavares, who's the IT

10:12

worker who avoided indictment because he

10:14

cooperated with the federal government against

10:17

Nauta and Carlos D. Olviera, the

10:19

maintenance worker, he said that he

10:21

had a conversation, I believe, with

10:24

somebody like Suzy Wiles, who

10:26

is in the Trump packet communications department, who

10:28

told him, don't worry, we'll take care of

10:30

you, we'll get you a lawyer, and

10:32

other things. Same thing Walt Nauta was told, same

10:35

thing that Cassidy Hutchinson was told, we'll get

10:37

you a lawyer, we'll get you a job

10:39

if you don't cooperate with the prosecutors

10:42

in the Jan 6th committee. Do you see

10:44

the pattern here of obstruction of justice? Now,

10:46

look, I know there was a lot of

10:48

conversation led by Justice Gorsuch at the United

10:51

States Supreme Court during oral argument on the

10:53

immunity about what about self-pardon? Why can't the

10:55

president just do a self-pardon? But

10:58

him being able to self-pardon, which I

11:00

don't think the Supreme Court will ultimately

11:02

rule that that's appropriate, is different than

11:04

him witness tampering, offering

11:06

to pardon somebody in order for

11:09

them to lie in an investigation

11:11

and obstruct justice. I

11:14

don't even think that would fall under

11:17

official conduct that's

11:19

subject to absolute immunity, even by the

11:21

magma right wing, if they go that

11:24

direction off of yesterday's Supreme Court ruling.

11:26

But look, I think the other takeaway

11:28

from this analysis of these new 400

11:31

pages that have been stripped of their ceiling

11:33

and stripped of their privilege,

11:35

if you will, and released to the public in

11:38

the Mar-a-Lago case by Judge Cannon, is

11:40

that there are dozens and dozens and

11:42

dozens of cooperating witnesses with the federal

11:44

government against Donald Trump. This is not

11:46

just going to be he said, he

11:48

said, he said. This is not

11:51

going to be a case of

11:53

Nauta, Deolviera, and Trump if they

11:55

take the stand. There are dozens

11:57

of other witnesses. There are insiders. within

12:00

Mar-a-Lago that worked for Trump, executive

12:02

assistants that worked for him, maintenance

12:05

workers, housekeepers, cooks, video

12:09

surveillance footage, the results of the

12:11

execution of the search

12:14

warrants, and what was found there,

12:16

photographic evidence, recordings. I mean, we

12:18

have it all. Evan

12:20

Corcoran, the lawyer for Donald

12:22

Trump, who has 50 pages of single-space

12:24

notes turned over to the FBI because

12:27

the attorney client privilege was blown by

12:29

fraud, the crime fraud exception. His

12:32

audio notes about his conversations with Donald

12:34

Trump. I don't want to

12:36

say this is an open and shut case against Donald Trump,

12:39

but I think it's going to be very hard

12:41

for him to win at Mar-a-Lago, and he knows

12:43

it. That's why he's trying every which way to

12:45

avoid the Mar-a-Lago case being set for trial. And

12:48

at the rate we're going with the immunity case, which

12:51

to me, and I'll do a separate hot

12:54

take on it, it looks like the majority,

12:56

led by the right wing, is going to

12:58

send this case back down to the District

13:00

of Columbia Court of Appeals, or even to

13:03

Judge Chutkin, to try with a razor surgically

13:05

to figure out what is an official

13:08

conduct for which there's going to be

13:10

absolute immunity, apparently, and what is not

13:12

official conduct, and what is private conduct

13:14

with in official conduct, a hybrid, that

13:16

would also not be subject to immunity.

13:18

And that's going to have to go down to a court system before it

13:20

even gets tried, which means we're not going

13:23

to have the DC election trial about defrauding

13:26

the United States and

13:28

obstruction of an official proceeding until

13:31

after the election, if at all,

13:34

which now Mar-a-Lago comes back up. Now

13:37

if that happens, there would be time

13:39

to try the Mar-a-Lago case before November,

13:41

if there is judicial will by Judge

13:43

Cadden. And the more that we shine

13:45

the light on witnesses like number 16,

13:47

16 out of 50 or 60 different

13:51

witnesses for the government who will testify, the

13:53

more likely we could try to pressure to make

13:56

sure that justice is done in this trial for

13:58

Mar-a-Lago is the second trial. if there's

14:00

going to be one before the November election.

14:02

I'll continue to follow it all right here

14:04

on the Midas Touch Network and on Legal

14:07

AF. Join us on Wednesdays and Saturdays at

14:09

8 p.m. Eastern Time. Find out why we

14:11

call it Legal AF. We take and

14:13

curate the top five stories at the development,

14:17

sorry, at the intersection of law and politics. We

14:19

bring it to you right here. Free

14:21

subscribe to the Midas Touch Network. Get up to

14:23

3 million free subscribers. And if you like what

14:25

I'm doing, give me a thumbs up,

14:27

leave a comment. It helps, keeps me on the air,

14:30

so to speak. And then you can

14:32

go over to playlist, look for Michael Popock

14:34

and other contributors. You'll find all my body

14:36

of work over 1,000 hot takes just like

14:38

this one. So until my next hot take,

14:40

until my next Legal AF, this is Michael

14:43

Popock reporting. Heary, heary,

14:45

Legal AF Law Breakdown is now

14:47

in session. Go beyond the headlines

14:49

and get a deep dive into

14:51

the important legal concepts you need

14:53

to know. And we discuss every

14:55

day on Legal AF. Exclusive

14:57

content you won't find anywhere

14:59

else. All for the price

15:02

of a couple of cups

15:04

of coffee. Join us at

15:06

patreon.com/legal AF. That's patreon.com/legal AF.