0:24

Hi, I'm Tara

0:24

Beckett, and I want to welcome

0:27

you back to Season Two of let

0:27

perfect burn.

0:34

My guest today is comedian

0:34

Antonia Lassar, who self

0:38

identifies as 60% Jewish 30%

0:38

chronic illness and 10% Bisexual

0:43

chaos. And recently, their stand

0:43

up addressed embracing the term

0:48

disabled. Antonia says, prior to

0:48

this, I was like, Yes, I'm

0:53

exhausted all of the time. Yes.

0:53

When I lie down, I choke on my

0:56

own stomach acid. Yes, I don't

0:56

poop. But that's not because I'm

1:00

sick. I was like, that's because

1:00

I am morally inferior. This got

1:06

a big laugh from her audience.

1:06

Before coming to LA to focus on

1:10

their career as a comedian,

1:10

Antonia toured college campuses

1:13

addressing sexual assault with

1:13

their work post traumatic, super

1:17

delightful. Antonia is a victim

1:17

of sexual assault. And they

1:22

utilize comedy to challenge the

1:22

expectations of the survivor.

1:26

She says a lot of my work really

1:26

dives into this critique of our

1:29

expectations of the perfect

1:29

survivor. In their interview,

1:34

Antonia takes us through the

1:34

challenging and sometimes

1:37

devastating path to create art.

1:37

After falling apart. She says

1:41

suddenly, and my body totally

1:41

broke down. And it was to me a

1:45

message from the heavens being

1:45

like, alright, this has gone on

1:48

long enough. You're literally

1:48

killing your body. At this

1:51

point. You need to get your art

1:51

back together.

1:58

Hi, everyone, welcome back to

1:58

let perfect burn. I'm Tara

2:02

Beckett, and I'm so glad you're

2:02

here again. With me today is

2:07

Antonia Lazar. And I really

2:07

wanted to have Antonia on this

2:13

show because I found her on

2:13

Instagram. And she listed

2:17

herself as a comedian, a hottie.

2:17

With her content being 50%,

2:22

Jewish 40% chronic illness and

2:22

10% Bisexual chaos. So I just

2:29

need to know more Antonia.

2:29

That's quite an intro. So can

2:33

you give us a sense of who you

2:33

are?

2:36

Isn't it helpful

2:36

to to have a mission statement

2:39

that gives percentages of your

2:39

personality? Perfect. Yeah,

2:45

that's how I like to lead. So

2:45

it's Yeah, I mean, it's exactly

2:50

what it is. I'm a comedian, but

2:50

I own and I'm extremely hot.

2:58

And, and, yeah, right now, I

2:58

mean, I have these topic areas

3:04

that I'm very excited about, and

3:04

especially on social media, they

3:07

really reward you if you have a

3:07

niche. So I'm more than these

3:11

things. But on social media, I

3:11

do a lot of I make a lot of

3:17

Jewish comedy, and I am

3:17

obviously Jewish. And I make a

3:24

lot of chronic illness content,

3:24

too. I would love to make even

3:28

more because I am chronically

3:28

ill, but the Jewish stuff gets

3:34

rewarded by the algorithm right

3:34

now. And I'm playing that game a

3:37

little bit. And, and then I'm

3:37

bisexual. So you know, it's,

3:45

it's chaotic, and, and who knows

3:45

what, what's gonna happen 10% of

3:50

the time.

3:51

So Antonia, I

3:51

would love for you to talk about

3:55

you know, when you mentioned,

3:55

especially with your chronic

3:58

illness. Can you walk us through

3:58

a breaking point in your life?

4:04

Oh, yeah. Let's

4:04

go. Let's get into this. It's,

4:10

it feels like my last few years

4:10

have been totally consumed with

4:14

chronic illness and, and

4:14

announcing myself as an official

4:19

comedian has totally come out of

4:19

that. So you're catching me at

4:22

like, exactly this inflection

4:22

point out of the drama. So this

4:29

is well time Chera. And, and

4:29

yeah, so for the last few years,

4:35

I've been extremely ill at the

4:35

beginning of the pandemic.

4:40

Something happened to my body

4:40

and I just stopped being able to

4:45

eat and digest food. And it was

4:45

coming back up but it was not

4:52

leaving me it was everything

4:52

just like completely shut down.

4:56

And as soon as it started I had

4:56

this, like spiritual awareness

5:04

that this is a metaphor for my

5:04

creative life. Like I knew it, I

5:08

knew it immediately because I

5:08

was creatively constipated. Just

5:12

like I was, just like, I was so

5:12

physically constipated. And it,

5:16

you know, in into this, I was

5:16

creatively so constipated that

5:20

my creative soul was dying, just

5:20

like my physical self started to

5:25

do. And I had, I had previously

5:25

been working in theatre and

5:31

comedy and, and two years ago, I

5:31

was sort of at the end of almost

5:38

five years of just not creating

5:38

anything because I was so

5:42

paralyzed by fail the idea of

5:42

failure, like I had all of this

5:46

success, and I didn't know how

5:46

to top it, I didn't know how to

5:49

keep it going. And I was worried

5:49

that the next thing I would

5:53

write wasn't going to make me

5:53

money, the way the previous

5:57

things had, and like, wasn't

5:57

going to be as respected as the

6:01

previous things had been. And,

6:01

and I just, like, I just stopped

6:09

slowly, over time, I just

6:09

stopped and, and fell out of

6:15

love with, with making with

6:15

creating art, and didn't really

6:21

know what I was doing. And so

6:21

then, you know, suddenly my body

6:26

totally broke down. And it was,

6:26

to me like, a message from the

6:31

heavens being like, alright,

6:31

this is, this has gone on long

6:34

enough, you're literally killing

6:34

your body. At this point, you

6:38

need to get your art back

6:38

together. I mean, I was like,

6:43

really paralyzed by this fear of

6:43

not making enough money, not

6:48

making as much money on the next

6:48

project as I had on the previous

6:52

projects, which were totally

6:52

sustaining me financially. And

6:56

that not getting as much respect

6:56

on those projects as the last

7:01

ones that had gotten and slowly,

7:01

I just stopped creating, it

7:07

didn't all happen in one day, it

7:07

was like, the creative process

7:11

became harder and harder. And

7:11

deadlines started getting blown

7:18

past and I got a day job. And

7:18

suddenly, it was like I looked

7:25

up and I was just not being an

7:25

artist and a writer anymore.

7:37

You know, I don't think I have

7:37

found clarity. It's all of this

7:41

stuff is in retrospect, in

7:41

retrospect, I can now see that

7:45

I've made all of these choices

7:45

that have really helped. But

7:48

like, as you can hear, in the

7:48

moment, I'm processing so much

7:51

stuff that I don't know what to

7:51

do with. And, and I know that if

7:56

I had heard something like it's

7:56

important to find clarity in

8:01

like, what keeps me healthy and

8:01

happy. I'd be like, Well, fuck

8:04

me. Like, I'm never gonna figure

8:04

that out. Like, I don't know

8:09

what

8:09

is fair, fair.

8:13

And, and there's

8:13

like, a lot of value in just

8:18

sort of blindly and hopefully

8:18

running towards something that

8:22

feels like it might work out.

8:22

There's this quote, gosh, Tara,

8:27

I'm all over the place right

8:27

now. You've really caught me. I

8:29

love it. Like it's messy

8:29

processing time of life. Yep.

8:36

The but there's this quote that

8:36

really gave me a lot of comfort.

8:42

A couple of months ago when I

8:42

was deciding to, like, go for

8:47

this career as a comedian. And

8:47

it's by Richard Branson, who

8:53

sucks, but it's a great quote.

8:53

He was like talking to some

8:59

business students and saying

8:59

that everyone thinks that you

9:02

need to know the direction

9:02

you're going, and then go in

9:07

that direction. And he talks

9:07

about the phrase, Ready, Aim

9:11

Fire. And he says, that's sort

9:11

of the traditional business

9:16

model that you get ready, you

9:16

aim at what you want, and then

9:19

you go for it. And he was

9:19

encouraging these students to

9:23

switch it to ready, fire, aim.

9:23

Get ready, do the training,

9:31

learn something, and then just

9:31

start firing. Just start running

9:37

in all the directions you can

9:37

and you will find an aim through

9:43

that. I think for someone like

9:43

me, that was really helpful to

9:48

hear because I get so paralyzed

9:48

by fear and indecision and like

9:53

the idea that I could be running

9:53

in the wrong direction. And it

9:58

was so much comfort to me to

9:58

hear That sometimes running in

10:01

all the directions is still the

10:01

right choice. And that, that

10:06

I'll find something from that.

10:09

I think what it is, too, is just different personalities, right? Like, when

10:10

you were talking about, you

10:14

know, kind of firing all over

10:14

the place, and that finds you

10:16

comfort, I'm having a panic

10:16

attack over here, don't I mean,

10:20

so I think it's like interesting

10:20

to sort of know, what is your

10:24

process of, you know, figuring

10:24

something out or exploring

10:28

something that, you know, lets

10:28

you be open to it. So, it's

10:31

interesting to acknowledge how

10:31

different we are in trying to do

10:35

the same thing.

10:37

I love that,

10:37

that's, that feels so juicy,

10:41

because I'm, I get so cautious

10:41

around all kinds of advice,

10:46

because all kinds of advice are

10:46

useful for some people and

10:50

incredibly unusable for other

10:50

people. And this is such a good

10:56

example

11:06

as you were

11:06

letting go of these pieces of

11:10

your artistic self, was it

11:10

coupled with like an anxiety or

11:15

depression, like a numbness? Can

11:15

you kind of speak to like, what

11:18

was happening as these pieces

11:18

were falling away,

11:21

it's totally,

11:21

it's, I am more depressive than

11:27

anxious, and, you know, and

11:27

officially got the diagnosis and

11:31

everything. So I, I really

11:31

struggle with depression a lot,

11:35

and I take medication for it,

11:35

which is so helpful. But my

11:41

depression is, is it numbing is

11:41

like, try, I try and just

11:48

escaped the world and escape

11:48

whatever I'm doing, and I become

11:52

really lethargic. And so I was,

11:52

it felt like that was happening,

11:58

like I was losing energy, to

11:58

write and to perform. And, and,

12:07

also, like, I mean, this took

12:07

years, so there was all of this

12:12

sort of mental gymnastics going

12:12

on of like, you know, artists go

12:16

through these fallow periods,

12:16

you need to, you need to take in

12:22

as much as you put out, and

12:22

there was so much, like, I was

12:27

just constantly fighting to

12:27

rationalize what was happening.

12:32

And to, like, justify this state

12:32

of being where I just felt like

12:40

I couldn't write at all. And I

12:40

think a lot of those things are

12:45

true for people and, and artists

12:45

do need to go through these

12:50

fallow periods, and they need to

12:50

consume as much as they put out.

12:54

For some artists, and for some

12:54

people like me, who's like,

12:59

mental health, when it

12:59

deteriorates, it manifests as me

13:05

stopping to produce just getting

13:05

Art and Writing out of me is

13:15

it's like a health behavior. It

13:15

keeps me healthy, to keep

13:20

getting getting art out of me.

13:20

Also, you know, and I mean,

13:24

physically, like, when I'm

13:24

unhealthy, I can't poop. You

13:29

know? Like, it's, if they feel

13:29

very tied in my body, it's like

13:35

I gotta get my art out of gotta

13:35

get my shit out. It's all got to

13:39

come out.

13:41

Yes, yes, you

13:41

can't hold it anymore.

13:44

No, and some

13:44

people and you know, some people

13:48

struggle with the other, the

13:48

other side where they just can't

13:51

stop making and they can't slow

13:51

down. They can't stop pooping.

13:56

And I just have a different

13:56

balance you know, so so that was

14:03

that was how that that sort of

14:03

like descent into depression

14:09

went and and like I said,

14:09

happened so slowly and I was

14:13

trying to rationalize the entire

14:13

way down. And then two years ago

14:21

my body just, you know, totally

14:21

stopped working and it felt like

14:25

a lightning bolt saying, this is

14:25

this has gone on long enough.

14:29

You're literally dying here. You

14:29

know, your creative heart has

14:34

been dying. And now your

14:34

physical body is joining in and

14:40

something really needs to change. am such a good talker that I

14:51

like I Think I spun the

15:02

narrative for everyone over the

15:02

all of those years, that

15:06

everything was okay. And that

15:06

this was what I wanted to be

15:09

doing. You know, oh, no, it's I

15:09

love that I have this day job

15:14

because it takes the pressure

15:14

off of my art to make me money.

15:18

I love that I am, like, just,

15:18

you know, in this period of

15:24

taking in art, as opposed to

15:24

making it. I think like, I mean,

15:29

I was trying to convince myself

15:29

that, I really believe that. And

15:33

I think I did convince a lot of

15:33

people, everyone around me that

15:38

I didn't believe that. And I was

15:38

kind of the only one who knew

15:42

how much I really did not

15:42

believe that. And also,

15:46

especially when you get really

15:46

sick people in your life tend to

15:51

be, you know, concerned about

15:51

your physical health, and less

15:58

excited to talk about how you

15:58

just need to start writing

16:01

comedy, and then your body will

16:01

be better and they're much more

16:05

interested in like, maybe you

16:05

should go to the hospital. So,

16:12

so I was basically obsessed with

16:12

this idea of like, my, my

16:17

artistic soul, and everyone else

16:17

was like, You need to go to the

16:20

gastroenterologist.

16:22

Right? And would

16:22

you say there's probably a combo

16:25

there? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

16:29

Oh, 100%. They,

16:29

they both needed serious health

16:33

and healing. Yeah, it wasn't. It

16:33

was like, maybe if I had

16:38

realized this was happening five

16:38

years prior, I could have fixed

16:43

everything by just healing my

16:43

artistic soul. But at that

16:47

point, things had gotten dire

16:47

enough that I needed a lot of

16:51

doctors on the case.

16:53

So talk us through

16:53

that, like, Finally, you're at

16:56

that point, like you say, you

16:56

are dying, like, what is that

17:00

transition period look like?

17:02

So, I mean, it

17:02

was crazy. It was, it was such,

17:07

it's such an unusual experience

17:07

to watch your body stop working,

17:11

you know, and I and I started

17:11

getting so malnourished, you

17:18

know, because I mean, I

17:18

literally wasn't able to eat

17:21

food. And I was, you know, just

17:21

physically I was living on a

17:25

liquid diet. And every meal was

17:25

this like Herculean effort to

17:32

just get through it. And, and my

17:32

brain power really started

17:39

declining, because that is what

17:39

happens when you're just not

17:42

getting enough nutrition. And I

17:42

had no energy at all. So what

17:49

happened was, I went on medical

17:49

leave from my job. And at the

17:56

same time, my husband got a

17:56

Nintendo Switch. And and this is

18:08

really important, even though it

18:08

seems unlikely. On his switch, I

18:14

had heard about this game Animal

18:14

Crossing, and I had never played

18:17

video games ever in my life. But

18:17

I'd heard this game Animal

18:20

Crossing was kind of

18:20

interesting. And I basically had

18:23

absolutely nothing to do all day

18:23

other than, like, sit on the

18:28

couch and waste away. And so I

18:28

was like, desperate for

18:33

something to do. And I started

18:33

playing Animal Crossing. And it

18:38

was so captivating, and, like,

18:38

fully immerse myself in it. And

18:47

to explain to your listeners who

18:47

don't know what Animal Crossing

18:50

is, here's the concept. So you,

18:50

you now are the caretaker of a

18:59

desert island, and you get to

18:59

industrialize it, which is so

19:07

dark, but it's very cute. And

19:07

you you basically get to design,

19:11

the aesthetics, the outside

19:11

aesthetics of this island, and

19:14

then the inside all the little

19:14

buildings. It's all aesthetic.

19:18

This is like one big art

19:18

project. And I basically played

19:24

Animal Crossing for eight hours

19:24

a day for about six months. And

19:31

in between doctor's visits. And

19:31

while that was happening, I also

19:39

for the first time gave myself

19:39

permission to completely stop

19:42

creating now I had not been

19:42

creating but this was the first

19:48

time I I gave myself full

19:48

permission. I was like, I'm you

19:51

know, I'm dying. I don't I like

19:51

finally, really am totally off

19:58

the hook to write ate art to

19:58

make anything. And

20:05

simultaneously, I was, like,

20:05

immersed in this full time art

20:10

project designing this virtual

20:10

Island. And at the time, I

20:14

didn't realize what was

20:14

happening. But afterwards, I

20:18

like, I was wondering why my

20:18

artistic self felt so fulfilled.

20:26

And I was like, I'm not doing

20:26

anything. And then I realized

20:29

that this Animal Crossing was

20:29

giving me my first outlet in

20:33

years to just make something,

20:33

make something beautiful, just

20:40

for fun. And it was like, it was

20:40

the feeling that I had, as a kid

20:46

making plays, and, and writing

20:46

poems, and just doing it all

20:53

because it was like beautiful,

20:53

and it felt so good to make.

20:57

Right. So that's what Animal

20:57

Crossing did for me, and I love

21:05

it so much. And then I have a

21:05

therapist, and I've been working

21:09

with her the whole time. And

21:09

once I sort of brought that to

21:15

her, I was like, I think I'm

21:15

ready to also start adding in

21:19

writing. And I, we went through

21:19

this unbelievably methodical

21:26

process that took two years.

21:26

Whereas Wow, a couple months,

21:30

just writing in my journal every

21:30

day, which was terrifying. I

21:35

mean, I was so like, triggered

21:35

by the act of writing of being a

21:40

playwright that just writing in

21:40

my journal was, like,

21:43

terrifying. Wow. And so do that

21:43

for a couple months. And then I

21:49

started writing something

21:49

creative, every day, anything

21:54

creative, not for public

21:54

consumption. And then I learned

22:01

about tick tock, and I started

22:01

writing one sketch to put on

22:06

tick tock every day, not to show

22:06

anyone just writing it in my

22:12

journal, I did a couple of

22:12

months of that month. And then I

22:17

did a couple more months of

22:17

filming some of those sketches.

22:22

Again, there was no promises I'd

22:22

ever have to show anyone, I was

22:26

just making them. And, you know,

22:26

over two years, that's how long

22:34

this took finally got to the

22:34

point where I felt ready to put

22:39

them out into the world. And I

22:39

think that's how you found me

22:42

was, I have been putting a lot

22:42

of sketches and comedy content

22:47

out on social media, which, to

22:47

the outside observer, I think

22:53

just looks like any regular you

22:53

know, comedian, putting sketches

22:59

on social media. But for me,

22:59

it's like the tail end of this

23:03

epic healing journey. And, and

23:03

it's a really important step.

23:09

And it's been, it's been really

23:09

healing just to, to finally get

23:15

it out it's hard for me to tell where

23:28

I'm at, in my process. In the

23:33

moment, it's much easier for me

23:33

to look back at the debris in my

23:37

wake, and piece together a

23:37

narrative of that. Yeah, so so

23:43

I'm not sure things feel, feel

23:43

unsettled. Physically, I'm still

23:50

kind of in a flare and, and

23:50

dealing with that creatively

23:55

with things I don't know that

23:55

things feel weird right now.

24:00

I'm, I'm entering like the film

24:00

industry, which I've never

24:05

worked in before. I'm dealing

24:05

with this whole process of

24:08

getting agents. And also, I

24:08

don't have any friends in this

24:14

city. It all feels kind of

24:14

excruciating, to be honest. And

24:24

I'm trying really hard to focus

24:24

on like these tiny moments of

24:29

pleasure. I mean, tiny like,

24:29

wow, this much it tastes nice or

24:37

like, yeah, like, wow, I cleaned

24:37

my room. That's, that's sort of

24:44

where I'm at right now.

24:46

Fair. Well, I'm

24:46

excited for you though, because

24:49

it feels like it's an exciting

24:49

step. And you're here. That's

24:53

good. You know? Yeah, I think

24:53

you have all that experience to

24:57

know like things are flaring up.

25:00

Yeah, exactly.

25:00

And I at least have been

25:02

building the tools over the last

25:02

two years, both physically,

25:06

creatively, mentally, to deal

25:06

with all of those flare ups. And

25:10

you know, and also, that's all,

25:10

that's just sort of my internal

25:15

life, you know, the external

25:15

markers of success are going

25:19

great here. Like, I'm choosing

25:19

between agents right now, which

25:23

is really exciting. I'm doing a

25:23

ton of Stand Up shows I've got

25:29

I'm on a UCB House team right

25:29

now. And all of that happened in

25:34

two months. So it's, things are

25:34

going, you know, the external

25:39

markers of success are being

25:39

met. But I don't give them as

25:47

much importance as like, my

25:47

internal peace, health and

25:50

happiness. You know.

25:53

That's why is this

25:53

shit dude? Like, really? You

25:57

know? Yeah. Why not? Yeah,

25:57

really. So to switch gears just

26:05

a little bit, Antonia, I want to

26:05

talk about your work with sexual

26:11

violence prevention, and just

26:11

walking us through, you know,

26:15

what kind of work were you doing

26:15

and why you're so passionate

26:18

about it? Yeah,

26:21

this is really

26:21

one of my favorite things to

26:23

talk about. So before, before,

26:23

all of this, like sort of

26:30

crumbling, I was having this

26:30

amazing career. Touring a solo

26:37

show called Post traumatic,

26:37

super delightful to colleges and

26:42

theaters all over the country.

26:42

And it was a show about sexual

26:46

violence on college campuses.

26:46

And it used a lot of comedy,

26:51

really, to sort of humanize what

26:51

that kind of process looks like,

26:57

in the Title Nine department,

26:57

what does the process look like

27:00

for the survivor? What does it

27:00

look like? For, you know, the

27:04

accused the perpetrator? What

27:04

does it look like for the

27:09

bystanders who are just sort of

27:09

tangentially brought in, and

27:14

that, I mean, that came out of

27:14

my own history of being a

27:18

survivor of sexual assault, and

27:18

also a history of watching other

27:24

survivors deal with the college

27:24

administrative process. And, and

27:32

it was very clear to me when I

27:32

was going through it, when I was

27:36

watching my friends go through

27:36

it, that it was hugely

27:38

problematic. And I knew that I

27:38

wanted to do something on it.

27:42

And eventually, once I left

27:42

college and spent a good few

27:47

years really digesting what had

27:47

happened, then, then I made this

27:52

show. And there's like a real

27:52

hunger for, for this

27:56

conversation on college

27:56

campuses, especially in a way

28:01

that makes students actually

28:01

want to talk about it,

28:07

especially young men, you know,

28:07

on sports teams, and in frats.

28:13

And so that was really like a,

28:13

one of my big target audiences.

28:19

And, and I ended up you know,

28:19

along the way, becoming really

28:27

educated in sexual violence

28:27

prevention, and then in turn

28:30

educating other people and I

28:30

spoke at a bunch of conferences

28:34

on sexual violence prevention,

28:34

the Minnesota and the Minnesota

28:39

Association for the treatment of

28:39

sexual abusers. So that's a

28:45

different angle. But I worked

28:45

with them and they were amazing.

28:49

And that was kind of my past

28:49

life in theatre. And now, now

28:58

that I am coming back to, to

28:58

creating again, it feels like an

29:03

unfinished book that I'm coming

29:03

back to. And I'm really excited

29:09

to keep making specifically

29:09

comedy, about this whole rape

29:15

culture and process of sexual

29:15

violence prevention and

29:19

adjudication, especially on

29:19

college campuses.

29:24

Yeah, it's, I

29:24

think I need one more step here.

29:27

Because what about comedy allows

29:27

people to access this idea of

29:34

sexual violence.

29:36

It's such a good

29:36

question because it's, it's it's

29:40

like, we've seen so much

29:40

horrible, devaluing comedy of

29:50

making fun of survivors of

29:50

sexual violence, and especially

29:55

especially making fun of

29:55

survivors of sexual violence. So

29:58

the idea of have come Finding

29:58

comedy with this subject, I

30:02

think is really triggering for a

30:02

lot of people. And the one

30:08

really big obvious benefit it

30:08

has is that comedy makes

30:13

everything easier to talk about.

30:13

You know, everyone would prefer

30:18

to go to a comedy, and would

30:18

prefer to laugh and feel good.

30:24

It's just like, we just seek it

30:24

out. And, and it's kind of I

30:29

think of it as like, an enormous

30:29

weapon that you can point at

30:36

different different subjects, or

30:36

maybe a weapon feels so

30:42

militaristic, and enormous

30:42

spotlight goes to, to illuminate

30:50

the things that you want to

30:50

bring people's attention to. So

30:52

comedy is just like, inherently

30:52

attractive, but also think when

30:58

it's targeted in the right way.

30:58

Laughter specifically,

31:02

especially in a live audience.

31:02

Laughter is so validating,

31:07

because it's this, like,

31:07

unconscious, physical response

31:13

to recognition, you know, and

31:13

especially survivors who are so

31:22

unvalidated, not validated,

31:22

several word that combines those

31:28

two that is invalidated,

31:28

invalidated, validated, that

31:32

sounds right. survivors who are

31:32

so invalidated by by the public

31:38

discourse, it's so powerful to

31:38

be in a big theater of people

31:45

laughing in a recognition of

31:45

your experience. And I focus a

31:50

lot in this work on our

31:50

expectations on the perfect

31:56

survivor, you know, this needs

31:56

that we we sort of have this

32:01

expectation, it needs to be

32:01

someone who we trust on

32:05

everything, someone who is like

32:05

worthy of our respect, someone

32:10

who, you know, is,

32:10

trustworthiness is big. So like

32:16

they they need to have the

32:16

education level that we believe

32:20

that they are trustworthy enough

32:20

to actually, like, speak

32:24

accurately about their

32:24

experience. And a lot of my work

32:28

really dives into this critique

32:28

of our expectations of the

32:33

perfect survivor. And so when

32:33

you when you can be in an

32:36

audience, we're all laughing in

32:36

recognition. Of that, it's

32:42

really validating, I think.

32:47

And, Tony, I would

32:47

love to hear from you. You know,

32:53

if you were to look back on this

32:53

Antonia, who hadn't gone through

32:58

that, you know, five years of

32:58

letting her art go and, you

33:02

know, illness, and you're

33:02

looking at that younger self?

33:06

What would you say to her?

33:09

Okay, so, I,

33:09

when you initially told him

33:15

about this question, I think it

33:15

was something like your 18 year

33:19

old self. And, and that's what

33:19

I've really been visualizing

33:22

with this. Yep. I mean, my 18

33:22

year old, my 18 year old self,

33:29

like, was absolutely consumed by

33:29

this worry that I wasn't hot.

33:39

And I mean, consumed, like,

33:39

everything I did was like, am I

33:45

physically hot enough? Or is my

33:45

talent hot enough? Like, am I

33:53

and to me, like hotness, and

33:53

sexiness and beauty was really

33:59

equivalent to just worth as a

33:59

human being, you know? So and,

34:11

and what I think is, like so

34:11

delightful, is that I look and

34:18

act very similar now. 31 as I

34:18

did when I was 18 I mean, my

34:25

clothing hasn't changed that

34:25

much. I like really don't look

34:30

very different. And yet, I have

34:30

discovered how like, what a

34:36

freaking hottie I am and and

34:36

that's been also through like

34:41

the process of having a long

34:41

term relationship where I feel

34:44

like celebrated and adored all

34:44

the time. And it has released

34:50

that worry of like, Am I worthy

34:50

enough to be desired and And I

35:00

would just love her to see me

35:00

now so that she could see like,

35:07

oh my god, like, you're not even

35:07

shaving your legs anymore. And

35:11

you feel so hot, like her still

35:11

just as sweaty as I am. And you

35:20

feel so hot. Like, yeah, just I

35:20

just want her to see the

35:28

possibility that maybe nothing

35:28

changes on the outside. But

35:33

internally, there's this

35:33

enormous capacity for change.

35:39

And like, you know, self

35:39

adoration and celebration.

35:44

That's what I really want her to

35:44

see that there is that

35:46

possibility because I'm hoping

35:46

that it would shave a couple

35:50

years off of getting there, if

35:50

she realized that we would

35:53

eventually get there

36:10

this has been

36:10

amazing. Antonia, I'm so excited

36:14

that you get came on. And before

36:14

we go, I would love for you to

36:17

speak to us about what let

36:17

perfect burn means for you.

36:21

Oh, yeah. Okay,

36:21

I've been thinking about this

36:25

all week. So it's, at first, I

36:25

was really tangled up in the

36:33

idea. And I couldn't figure out

36:33

why because I really love this

36:37

idea of like, acknowledging that

36:37

perfection. Like, can, like

36:50

might not even exist, and that's

36:50

the thing, let perfect burn was

36:55

really fucking me up because the

36:55

phrase itself, to me when I

36:59

first hear it feels like it's

36:59

implying that there is perfect,

37:03

right? That there is a perfect

37:03

that can burn. And that's what I

37:09

was getting so stuck on because

37:09

I think I feel so much comfort

37:17

as, as someone who has

37:17

perfectionist tendencies, I, I

37:21

combat those with this, like

37:21

warm and fuzzy feeling that

37:26

perfect will never exist. And so

37:26

I was like, How can I burn

37:33

something that doesn't exist,

37:33

it's getting very tangled up in

37:39

this. So so I'm not, I'm not

37:39

sure what it means to you when

37:48

you wrote that that title. But

37:48

I've been able to meditate on it

37:54

all week and just be delighted

37:54

by this idea of perfect, not

38:00

even existing, that whatever

38:00

we're burning was never perfect

38:05

to begin with. And so it doesn't

38:05

matter if we burn it all down

38:10

because it was never perfect.

38:10

And whatever we build out of it

38:13

is not going to be perfect. And

38:13

we don't have to be so precious

38:18

about these things that are

38:18

never going to be perfect.

38:24

Thank you,

38:24

Antonia. I am so excited you

38:29

were on. Thank you so much for

38:29

being here. And definitely I

38:36

can't wait to see what you do

38:36

and what you create out in this

38:40

new space. And it's exciting to

38:40

watch

38:43

you. Thanks me

38:43

do I wonder what I'm gonna do

38:47

out here. I'm very excited to be

38:47

a little comedian, officially

38:53

out in the world.

38:54

I love it. Well,

38:54

you take care and we'll be in

38:57

touch. Thank you so much Antonia.

38:59

Thanks, Tara.

39:06

Perfect