0:01

Hey guys, it's Sammy J. And welcome

0:04

to this week's episode of the Lesbi Real Podcast.

0:07

I am so honored because I got to

0:09

talk to my friend Bryan Elliott.

0:11

She is an incredible singer songwriter

0:13

and has such an interesting perspective in which

0:16

she writes and views the world. And I

0:18

love this episode. It has such a special

0:20

place in my heart because I feel like

0:22

it embodies exactly what I want to do with

0:25

this podcast. I hope you guys

0:27

enjoy it and I will see you soon. For

0:32

everybody who does not know Bryan

0:34

Elliott, UM, I

0:37

want to give some background how we met because it's been a minute

0:39

in its beautiful story. It is so I first

0:41

met you. I think it was in August eighteen.

0:44

Are coming up on three years of knowing each other.

0:47

UM at the Arthur ash Kid's Day

0:50

you performed. Is when I was working

0:52

with Radio Disney, a Radio

0:54

Disney UM,

0:56

and I was introduced to and first

0:59

of all, I saw your set and I was like, man, this

1:01

girl's got some spunk. And

1:03

then I just learned more about your story and you

1:06

told me about yourself. I was like, man,

1:08

like you're so inspiring. So for those who

1:10

don't know, tell them just

1:13

your story, how you started out songwriting,

1:15

what your process was, and you're

1:18

going to Harvard and all that. Yeah. Yeah,

1:20

it's funny because going to Harvard and

1:23

me doing music are kind

1:25

of inextricably linked, which is really

1:28

funny. It's hysterical because

1:30

didn't you remember you telling you apply the first

1:32

time you didn't get in? Didn't get in? Yeah, So

1:34

like in high school, starting

1:37

freshman year, I read Part and Prejudice

1:40

in my freshman English class,

1:42

fresh English, freshman English

1:45

class, and I

1:47

just got I got obsessed with

1:49

like Jane Austen and like

1:51

nerdy literature, eighteenth

1:54

century women authors, and

1:57

I really thought like, oh my goodness, I just want

1:59

to read books for the rest of my life. And

2:01

I thought, like where do I Where do I

2:03

do that? I must go to Harvard

2:05

or something. And I said it one day to a

2:08

friend kind of as a joke because they asked

2:10

me, like, where do you want to go to college?

2:12

I was like, I don't know, like where the nerds go Harvard?

2:15

And then I realized as I was joking

2:17

about that, that that was actually a real dream

2:20

of mine in that moment, and

2:22

my parents didn't go to college, and

2:25

so even saying that seemed kind

2:27

of hilarious and completely

2:30

out of reach. But I just decided,

2:32

and I had a conversation with my mom and my

2:34

dad and they were like, you know, you're kind

2:36

of really social and you're like hanging out with your friends.

2:38

You might need to like study just a little bit more

2:41

if you want to go to Harvard and UM.

2:44

And so that's what I did. My whole life actually just

2:46

kind of shifted. It was

2:48

Harvard, it was Harvard or or

2:51

Out, We're out. It was like Rory Gilmore

2:53

and Gilmore very I watched

2:56

that show. It was a great, very

2:58

formative yes, and

3:00

and so I was so overwhelmed

3:02

throughout high school just trying to figure it out,

3:05

not having a background family

3:08

wise that went to call Like I didn't even know

3:10

what a college application was. I had to google

3:12

it, and yeah,

3:15

Google is everything. And I had some

3:17

really great friends who really helped, who

3:20

knew more about the process and UM.

3:23

And so at the end of the day, I just found

3:25

myself completely needing

3:28

to not feel like a college resume. UM.

3:32

I needed to feel human again. And

3:34

my dad had this guitar that he

3:37

bought when he and my mom first got married.

3:40

Um he got it at a pawn shop and

3:43

I was like, it just it almost like called

3:45

out to me, like play me the

3:47

guitar, which sounds like really cheesy, and but

3:51

it really was that. It was like you need

3:53

to do this, and um

3:55

So I just started like learning off

3:58

YouTube chords, playing

4:00

Taylor Swift and ed Sharon songs, um

4:03

and and I did that for like a year,

4:06

and then songwriting became.

4:08

I just started writing songs. It became this way for

4:10

me to process at the end of a really intense

4:13

time in high school. And I

4:15

wrote so many songs. I think I wrote like

4:17

thirty songs, um

4:19

in what time span in like in like three

4:22

years. That's still substantial.

4:24

Yeah, with like applying and

4:27

applying to school and um

4:30

so then I put my songs.

4:33

I put them on my college application kind

4:35

of as like really never thinking

4:37

anything of it. Um that's so smart

4:40

though. Yeah. I was just like it's something that

4:42

I've been doing. Yeah, and it's a way to show

4:44

show yourself and stand out

4:46

instead of being like I went

4:49

to these classes, I got these grades, and

4:51

to show who you are. Yeah, And I think there

4:53

was always this part of me that was like I

4:55

knew that I was a nerd and knew that I loved reading,

4:57

but then music was kind of

5:00

my safe place. It was always a place

5:02

I like. My mom was very

5:04

musical growing up, and so music really

5:07

felt second nature. And

5:09

so I think it was this kind of thing where

5:11

I put it on there because I was like, well, this,

5:14

this is always going to be part of me in some

5:16

way, so I want to show that.

5:19

And when you applied to Harvard, did

5:21

you apply for the philosophy making it

5:23

undeclared? Well, it's undeclared. You

5:26

don't have to declare, I think until

5:28

you're a sophomore at Harvard. But I knew

5:31

that I wanted to study philosophy. UM.

5:33

I loved the idea of

5:35

asking questions what

5:38

it means to be human and like, I mean,

5:40

your EP is literally a question that's

5:44

very intentional, too exactly.

5:46

But so the story is I

5:48

applied and did not get in

5:52

UM. And that was a real blow because

5:54

I my whole life was oriented

5:57

around that school, around that

5:59

school, which was pretty it's pretty much a

6:01

lot. And I called my mom so sad,

6:04

and she was like, brand this is disappointing,

6:07

but like it's okay, We're going to get through

6:09

this, I don't um

6:11

And I got a through a family

6:14

friend, got an opportunity to

6:16

start doing music to work with a producer,

6:19

and I kind of thought such a random thing,

6:21

and I was like, well, I could just do that

6:23

for a year, like do this music internship,

6:25

like learn how to produce out my songs

6:29

and learn about music and the industry. Still

6:31

thinking like I'm going to go to

6:35

Ford. Well, I definitely. I mean

6:37

in my brain, I was like, I'm going to reapply

6:39

to Harvard because why not? Like

6:41

what do I have to lose that this was your gap year?

6:44

This was Yes, That's how I was framing it was

6:46

like this is my gap year. And

6:48

I definitely had another college in mind

6:50

because I was like, Okay, if it's not Harvard, I still

6:52

really do want to go to college. This period

6:56

Wake Forest University, which is still

6:59

has a very special place in my heart because

7:01

I really did almost go there. But

7:04

even then I was like, Okay, I'll just do this music

7:06

thing for like fun, but I'm probably

7:08

just gonna go to school and become like a like I'm

7:10

going to study philosophy, So what do you do

7:12

with you didn't think no,

7:15

I was never like I'm gonna do

7:17

I'm going to pursue music.

7:19

I'm gonna be an artist. That was not my vocabulary.

7:22

What do you think going into it you were going to end up

7:24

doing if it wasn't music. I think I just wanted

7:27

to be. I was like, I'll probably be a teacher. I'll

7:29

study studying philosophy. Isn't like

7:31

that much different from saying I want to be an artist,

7:33

but like, I just I don't know. For

7:35

me, it felt like a more um like

7:38

teaching felt like more of a job

7:40

than some kind of nebulous

7:42

like I want to be an artist thing. And it

7:45

was actually my dad when I

7:47

was I was applying reapplying

7:50

to Harvard, and I was so

7:52

like fixated on that and very

7:54

nervous. Um my dad

7:57

called me. I had sent him some of the music I was working

7:59

on, and he called me and he was like,

8:01

Bren, I just just want to say something, and

8:03

he's like, I don't know how you're going to react to it, okay,

8:07

which when he would say that, it was always

8:09

like a stomach oh yeah, here we go,

8:11

or I just I knew I was I

8:14

needed to like calm down, but he

8:16

was like, you should go to college, like I want

8:18

that for you know. He I think he really wanted

8:21

me to go without like pressuring me. He's

8:23

like, you know that, that's like you know, we

8:26

want that, we want that for you. But he

8:28

was like, I think you're an

8:31

artist. I was just like what he

8:33

was like, I think you need to allow yourself

8:35

to view yourself that way. It's okay,

8:39

and like, first to have a just to

8:41

have a person, let alone a

8:44

parent say that. I mean,

8:46

I know my other artist friends,

8:49

other friends who you know, we aren't doing art

8:51

by are doing other things. Like I just

8:53

know how incredibly privileged

8:56

and beautiful that is to have

8:58

a parent who encourages that. So

9:00

so that was really the shift.

9:02

That was really when I was like, whoa, I think

9:04

my dad is right, he's name is. He knew me really

9:07

well and he knew that I needed permission

9:10

to go there, and so I applied

9:12

to Harvard. I got in, and then

9:14

I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm an artist now

9:16

because I decided this is

9:18

my only label. Yes, like

9:21

no, exactly. That was the journey was

9:23

learning that you can as a human carry

9:25

Yeah, that's that's natural, that's normal,

9:28

And that was really the conversation

9:30

was like, I am going to go to school, and

9:33

the thought that I had was like, you know, having

9:36

a career in music isn't something you just It's

9:38

not overnight. It's really not,

9:41

and people think it is. I've

9:43

learned over the past couple of years from just

9:45

doing my work it is such

9:47

a hard job because it is so

9:49

oversaturated. Yes, especially

9:51

now, especially now, especially with

9:54

TikTok and things just going viral.

9:57

To be an artist and release

9:59

music and have that be your full

10:01

income, girl, rough,

10:04

yes, unless you're are on a grand day,

10:06

you know, well then even

10:08

then, I mean I hear I hear

10:11

those artists even talking about how

10:14

I think it was. Even like Julia Michael's on Twitter the

10:16

other day, it was so inspiring. She was like, it's

10:18

so hard because like you have to have a TikTok story

10:21

or a streaming story, and and she was

10:23

going she speaking of a vulnerable,

10:26

honest person. Wow. Yeah,

10:29

So I think I think for everyone, no

10:31

matter what, at any stage, you know, we're

10:33

just trying to navigate a new landscape.

10:35

And especially with the

10:37

complete like shutdown of live

10:40

music, TikTok really has become the only

10:43

way to you know, get your music

10:45

out there, so I understand why

10:47

we are where we are, but it is it's tricky.

10:49

It's tricky enough, it's really tricky,

10:51

and it brings into the question like

10:54

what's doing well. Is it the songs

10:56

by people that actually are an artists that do

10:59

it just for fun and that put

11:01

it I was a joke and then it goes viral or is

11:03

it the people that spend their time working

11:05

on the craft and then release it. Yeah,

11:08

I don't know. That's a good question. I

11:10

think probably both are true, and that

11:13

I like that breakdown. Well, so I

11:15

think something from about being my brother's philosophy

11:18

major. It's

11:21

fascinating and the whole point of philosophies

11:23

you just talked about asking questions. Have

11:26

you used any of the

11:28

philosophy concepts and theories

11:31

in your writing or has it made you view songwriting

11:34

as a whole any differently? Yeah,

11:36

it really helped me with

11:38

songwriting, I will say, studying philosophy,

11:41

Yeah it did. What was interesting

11:44

was once I like was fully in college

11:46

and I was writing new songs. When

11:48

I was writing philosophy papers, I

11:51

felt the same kind of feeling that

11:53

I felt when I was writing a song. So

11:56

interesting, Yeah, and I think it's because

11:58

I think it's also just like good writing in general,

12:01

you just you are trying to be clear and communicate

12:03

these ideas. Like when you're writing a paper,

12:06

you like have your main idea, your main concept.

12:08

Like in a song, You're right, you have that same

12:10

thing in a chorus, like you're trying to communicate,

12:13

um, you know, the

12:15

thesis. Yeah, and

12:17

I think songwriting is far more emotional

12:20

um than than

12:23

philosophy, but I think they're kind of very

12:25

similar. So would you say songwriting is

12:27

a shortened emotional version of philosophy

12:29

too? I love that, Yes, girl,

12:32

make merch out of I think,

12:34

yeah, I need to get you involved because the way

12:36

that you just phase that

12:39

again, it was like I don't even emotional.

12:42

Okay, wait, let me think. I think I want to say, like overwhelmed,

12:45

Like I'm like, it's just hit me. I think it was. Songwriting

12:48

is a shorter, more emotional

12:50

version of philosophy. I love that shorter

12:53

and more emotional version of philosophy. I

12:55

love that. I want to make I'm

12:58

going to get on it today. Yeah. What would

13:00

you say your favorite philosophical theory

13:03

is it keeps you up

13:05

that night? What I think about a lot. Now

13:07

is existential philosophy

13:09

so like what I only took a few classes,

13:12

but it is this sort of like the

13:14

philosophy of the human experience,

13:16

and I think it really is. It has

13:18

inspired a lot of my music because

13:21

it has to do with questions of

13:24

authenticity and um

13:27

so, like the title for my

13:29

EP Can I Be Real? Came

13:32

from this guy named

13:34

sore and kir Key Guard who is an

13:36

existential philosopher. I

13:38

think he was eighteen hundreds and

13:40

he wrote about yeah about He said,

13:43

the most common form of despair

13:46

is not being who you really are. And

13:49

I see that and are like in like

13:52

today people on the internet, like we're

13:54

all just trying to be ourselves.

13:58

Yeah, but there's so many message is

14:01

that we're receiving about what we should be,

14:03

you know, or which I think we're just kind of like well.

14:06

Social media definitely contributes to that and

14:09

positively and negatively in the sense

14:11

of you see a highlight reel not

14:14

and you see that and you think that's what I

14:16

have to be. You feel bad because you're not that, but

14:19

everybody listening. Social media is so fake,

14:22

like it can be. It

14:24

can be the generalized host

14:26

like I think of just No,

14:29

that is not how people look all the time. Oh

14:31

no, let's make I want to make that very

14:34

clear because I felt for

14:36

it, and it was awful when I realized

14:39

that wasn't true. I was like, man, this

14:41

is all just like a weird

14:43

experience. It's weird. It's a perception

14:46

thing because you see that and you're like, oh, that's

14:48

really that's what we should be. But

14:52

then't even I heard

14:54

this. I think it was Cindy Crawford was

14:56

interviewed once and

14:58

someone said, you know, I wish I looked

15:00

like you, Like I wish I looked like Sandy Crawford,

15:03

And she said, I wish I looked like

15:05

Sandy Crawford too, right,

15:09

Yeah, I like that's

15:12

how it is. I think today was

15:14

TikTok where

15:17

this model I forget her name, but she

15:19

was saying the process to

15:22

take that one photo, it's

15:24

not what she actually even looks like. It's

15:26

five to six hours makeup her

15:29

photo shop lighting just

15:31

to get one photo the way that she's

15:34

yeah, or sanding whatever. And I was like,

15:36

you're so, because there's the idea of that the way

15:38

you want to present, But then what we

15:40

actually all are and how we are day

15:43

to day, and part of me wishes we all showed

15:46

that more on social media. Yeah, I

15:48

think it would help, It would help

15:50

me. It would help me

15:52

too. And I think, I know you're an

15:54

overthinker. Yeah,

15:58

but that's the thing I'm so fascinating

16:01

philosophy. For me, if I spent that

16:03

much time thinking about what

16:06

is life, I would get myself in a tail. It's

16:08

not for everyone. How do you as an

16:10

over as a fellow, how

16:13

do you balance that between not

16:16

overthinking but also living in the moment and not

16:18

worrying about what we are doing? As a

16:20

philosophical perspective, I think

16:23

for me that's just been about

16:26

I think music, honestly, for me,

16:28

has been a way to kind of let it go,

16:30

you know, to just be in the moment.

16:34

And I think it's why I love performing

16:36

so much, because when

16:38

I walk on that stage, all I have

16:41

is that moment, you know. And so

16:43

I think music is a

16:45

huge release. And and yeah,

16:47

and then just in life, like taking a walk.

16:50

I learned to walk during the pandemic,

16:52

Like I don't think I walked before or just like

16:55

that wasn't a thing for Yeah,

16:58

watching some funny TV, any

17:00

any show recommendations. You know, I've

17:03

been watching New Girl from

17:05

start to have you finished

17:07

it? I'm almost I'm on the last season. I'm

17:09

I'm getting a little emotional about it. Okay,

17:12

So I watched

17:14

I think till season five, and

17:16

then I just for some reason I checked

17:19

out, Well, yeah, I had

17:21

trouble getting through it. It's do you

17:23

recommend to push through? I think because

17:25

it's such a specific type of humor. I

17:28

think there is that point where you're

17:30

like, Okay, I get I get what this is. But

17:33

yeah, I'm enjoying the last season because

17:35

it's a little sentimental. But maybe that's

17:38

yeah, I like that TV

17:42

show. Fun fact, I met a guy off

17:44

a dating app. Okay one

17:46

time, I've already done that, let's get into and we

17:48

were talking and

17:51

he was saying, I saying, we're talking about New

17:53

Girls, Like, yeah, my least favorite character

17:56

is Nick because he's just like so

17:58

angry at the time. He goes, man, I'll my friends

18:00

telling me. I'm like, I

18:03

was like, oh, I mean it was just angry. I

18:05

was like, how do I fix that? I

18:08

can't recover from that. Did you get like

18:10

a feeling from him that he was like a really

18:12

angry when I was surprised

18:14

when he said that, because I wouldn't if I just

18:17

say that maybe, but

18:19

yeah, I just feel like he complains a lot. Yeah,

18:21

Schmid is my favorite. Oh, Schmidt is great, so

18:24

funny. There are a few characters

18:26

that are just so original. Schmidt

18:29

is one of them. Yes, I think that's the

18:31

beauty of the show. And even like Jess,

18:34

like her quirkiness, and it's

18:36

just it's so relatable. It's very

18:38

relatable. It's just I don't know, you know,

18:40

I started watching it not too long ago, and

18:43

you know how shows just like like this

18:45

works for me. Right now, That's how I felt

18:47

about Now. I don't know, I

18:50

feel that what show of I've been watching? The show

18:52

is binging. I was binging pot

18:55

Stars for a little bit, like

18:57

so good. First of all, why is it on the

18:59

History Channel? Is the History Channel? Still?

19:01

Like, I don't

19:03

know. It's a great mindless entertainment

19:06

and learn some facts about antiques.

19:08

Yes, it's great. We

19:10

have to take a quick break, but when we come back,

19:13

I want to talk more about social media and

19:15

if any of the TV shows you've binged over

19:17

the pandemic have helped you in being more creative.

19:20

We'll be right back. Do

19:30

you think shows have been helpful

19:34

maybe subconsciously relaxed

19:36

so you can get more creative. Yeah,

19:38

I think that works for me quite

19:41

a bit. I do think there's a fine

19:43

line though, some because sometimes TV

19:46

shows for me has also

19:48

been like a form of escapism that

19:51

I think there is like an unhealthy

19:54

thing there some shows where you're

19:56

like, I just don't want to deal with whatever. Um,

19:59

and so I think that's the thing that you know, I've just you

20:02

just have to check in with yourself on

20:04

is like am I watching this because I just need a break

20:07

from Like I just need thirty minutes from my

20:09

own mind. I need to watch Jessica

20:11

Day deal with her fake

20:14

like TV life and I can or

20:16

is this like? Or am I like avoiding something? And

20:18

I think the avoidance is like it's always hard because

20:20

it's so easy to avoid things. But

20:23

um, it's funny. I my

20:26

friend gave me a philosophy book to

20:28

read the other day, and

20:31

I read it as a way to wind down

20:33

because I hadn't I haven't read a lot of philosophy

20:35

other than my existentialists

20:38

bros who I write songs about

20:40

or with like inspired by since

20:42

Um and this one was kind of about

20:44

the mind body thing and that was really relaxing. So

20:46

I think it really can be anything

20:49

that just feels like this is

20:51

taking me out of whatever situation

20:54

that i'm and that's that's been my experience

20:56

recently. I saw you, I think it was in February

20:59

or early March, and in

21:04

this I know and I remember then

21:06

I was in such a creative

21:08

rhet and I remember talking to you about it because

21:10

I had just applied to college. I

21:13

did the entire season of the podcast. From my

21:15

goodness, it was a lot, and

21:17

I'm so glad, like because now we're

21:20

here, you're here, yeah,

21:23

like so you know what you're doing a little know

21:26

it worked out like it

21:28

was all the unknown then right now things have

21:30

figured out a little more in my life. But

21:32

I remember I was in such a creative run

21:34

and that is such a discouraging feeling.

21:37

And I feel like it's not talked about

21:40

enough because I remember I looked up YouTube

21:42

videos what to do if you're in a creative rhet and frankly,

21:45

you don't know when it's going to come back, when you're gonna feel

21:47

o rejuvenated. Have you ever

21:49

been in that situation, what do you do and

21:51

when you're just can't come up with

21:53

those lyrics or you can't you don't

21:56

your batteries drained. Yeah,

21:58

that's a great question, and I ink I

22:00

do think that the pandemic

22:03

exacerbated all of that for for

22:05

all of us who are kind of in these

22:08

creative fields. I mean, I know a

22:10

lot of my friends were like,

22:12

you know, I'm just drained, and I think it's Zoom.

22:15

I think Zoom is the big drainer. But that's

22:17

another ranch with

22:19

you. I completely agree with you. Yeah,

22:22

so what I think that's what it is. Like the nature of

22:24

the time, it just was emotionally draining.

22:26

I mean not just our country,

22:28

but the world went through hell.

22:31

I mean it was just like and

22:33

then we're still in it. Yeah, And I think there

22:35

is a light at the end of the tunnel. I absolutely

22:37

do, and I hold on to that. But and

22:40

it's just so hard. So I think we have

22:42

to give ourselves like grace and

22:45

that it's like, which is so hard because

22:47

like I'm such an achieveril

22:53

we really are, Um,

22:55

I just I have to have had to come to this point

22:57

where I'm like it's okay that I haven't

23:00

it. And I did come out with an ep and of a

23:02

pandemic. Yes, yes, it has

23:04

been so good. It's been so good.

23:06

But yeah, but like, as achievers, you know this

23:08

that there will never be a moment where we're like

23:10

satisfied, you know, I just don't

23:12

think that's going to be our reality. And

23:15

then throw a global pandemic

23:17

on top of that and you're just you know, it's

23:19

hard, but I think for me,

23:21

I've had to endlist some

23:23

resources to help me process.

23:25

I'm started reading this book called The Artist Way.

23:27

Have you ever heard about it?

23:30

It's I don't know, I've just I've actually just

23:32

started it, and it's,

23:34

um this woman named Julia Cameron, and she's

23:37

inspired a lot of Like there's

23:39

some famous people that she has helped

23:42

get through I'm forgetting and

23:44

forgetting I should look at my book. But basically

23:47

she just has this thing called daily

23:49

or morning Pages, where you like you

23:52

write down extreme

23:55

of consciousness, whatever

23:57

comes to your head and you don't

23:59

judge yourself. So like, as

24:01

a songwriter especially, I'm like which words

24:04

work, and like when you're in when you're

24:06

collaborating with other people, you're like, oh, I have this idea

24:08

but I'm really afraid to say it because what

24:10

if they don't like it? And she's like, it's all about

24:13

like confronting your inner critic and

24:15

just saying no, you don't get to

24:17

have to say here. So that's been really

24:19

helpful for me. It's just like getting

24:22

the ideas out on paper and not listening

24:24

to that internal judge voice

24:26

that I have. And then she has

24:28

like another thing called the artist state, where

24:30

you just go out and take yourself out

24:33

to a museum or you

24:35

bake something. She's like, it can be even yeah,

24:39

and just like enjoy

24:41

the experience of that and let that fuel

24:43

you. So as I've kind of like experienced

24:47

maybe a little bit of healing from

24:49

this kind of creative route that

24:51

I was in, I've I've found myself

24:53

writing songs that I'm like, yeah, that's

24:56

that's what I needed to write about. That's what I'm going

24:58

through, and that feels right. That's

25:00

so awesome to be able to have an outlet

25:02

like that and that that that's the power

25:05

of music. Is that what you're going through,

25:07

so many other people are and it just makes

25:09

you feel not alone. We've

25:12

been through a global pandemic as

25:14

year and a half. Our lives have been substantially

25:18

changed. I had my entire senior year online.

25:20

Oh my gosh, on

25:23

zoom, you haven't been able

25:25

to perform right? How

25:27

are you? How are you doing? Just I

25:30

think we need to talk about that. We're in general,

25:32

it's not talked about like how are you doing? Mentally?

25:34

Are you coming out of it? Are

25:36

you still in it? How are you? It's

25:39

a good question, thank you for asking, of

25:41

course, and not just like the how are you doing?

25:43

Oh I'm good? Like how are you actually

25:45

doing? You know, Sammy

25:49

I And this is a little heavy,

25:52

but you know this we

25:55

talked to the other day on the phone. But

25:57

um, I think it's about

25:59

like eleven weeks ago, now, ten weeks ago,

26:02

I lost my dad, not to

26:04

covid um, but I lost

26:06

him suddenly and unexpectedly, and

26:10

it's been horrible. I

26:12

mean, like I told the story about him earlier, like

26:15

he was so good and

26:17

while I'm so grateful that I

26:20

had twenty six years with an amazing

26:22

father, like it's just it's

26:25

just this such a big hole in my

26:27

life. So now I feel

26:30

like I'm kind of just grieving

26:32

and going through a really personal

26:34

and deep grief on top of

26:37

the pandemic. But in some ways, like

26:40

you know, we're all grieving. We're all grieving, and

26:43

I've had so many friends lose

26:45

people like grandparents are

26:48

and maybe I'm just more aware of it now than

26:50

I was in the past, but I really do feel like

26:52

there's just been such a hard,

26:55

such a hard year and a half for so many people.

26:58

And so yeah, so I'm you know, I

27:00

have a lot of like hope right

27:02

now about moving

27:05

through this and moving forward and keep

27:07

going. My last conversation with

27:09

my dad, he told me I

27:11

was probably like freaking out

27:13

about something regarding the music business,

27:16

and he just said, it's

27:19

just like keep going. You got this,

27:21

so it'll all work out. You got

27:23

this. And so I'm really just trying

27:25

to hold onto that, you know, I

27:27

feel I feel him a lot when I when I am

27:30

writing or playing music. I'm going

27:32

on tour this fall, and he loved I

27:34

met him on tour that when I met

27:36

you too, yes, and and that

27:38

was just like he he just loved it. And

27:41

so I I'm excited to do that

27:43

and and yeah, so it's

27:45

like both I think a lot of life. What I'm

27:47

learning is like there's this guy named

27:50

Frederick Beeckner who says, in

27:52

this life I'm paraphrasing, but in this life,

27:55

beautiful and terrible things will happen,

27:57

but don't be afraid. And

27:59

I'd say that's just what it is, you know. It's

28:02

like life is, at the same time,

28:04

sometimes within the same day,

28:07

really horrible and really hard and

28:09

really wonderful and beautiful.

28:11

And so I think learning to live in

28:13

that tension is is what it's

28:15

about, and finding the joy

28:18

within the little things too, which

28:20

can be It's it's all about the way

28:22

I think you look at the world and you can

28:25

portray you can find a negative of anything,

28:27

and you can find it positive in anything. Yes,

28:31

And we should strive to find the positive

28:33

and more yes, yes, and live

28:35

in that, you know, because I

28:38

think if you look throughout history and people,

28:40

it's like that is what gets

28:42

you through that, what that's what makes you

28:45

fight for another day is the hope

28:48

of something else exactly,

28:51

and just surrounding yourself

28:53

with people that you love and

28:55

doing what you love and

28:58

you still get to go on tour. Oh my gosh,

29:00

are you so excited. I'm so excited. What

29:03

was Do you remember the last live show you performed

29:05

at Oh goodness, I think

29:07

so it was. Yeah, it was with James

29:10

Arthur. I was opening for James Arthur

29:13

on that run. We've played the Troubadour here

29:16

and I like, I'm obsessed

29:18

with that venue. Yeah, so

29:20

incredible, So that one really

29:22

stands out and people

29:24

are playing shows and it's just so great

29:26

to see it. It is weird. It's

29:29

weird. We were talking about this, like, it's definitely a different

29:31

dynamic and people are trying

29:33

their best to be safe and it's

29:36

back but it's you know, it's just in its

29:38

own variation and it's a very it is

29:40

a variation. Um, but

29:42

I'll take anything. Yeah, as

29:45

long as it's not unzoomed. I'm thinking the first

29:47

live event it was with you. It was

29:49

the Rooftop that

29:52

was like our low key like save

29:55

Yeah, everyone was wearing math. Everyone was still

29:57

great though, because I was like Ben shout out

29:59

to Ben Farber. Yeah, it was like I

30:02

forgot. I was like, man, this is what

30:04

live music is like. It just brings people

30:06

together and that's what music does. Yeah,

30:10

yeah, and it Yeah, it's

30:12

the most I think that's the most

30:14

beautiful thing about music, honestly,

30:16

is that you can come from completely

30:19

different countries, completely different backgrounds,

30:21

different languages, worldviews, and

30:24

come together and just be in that moment.

30:26

I think that's especially

30:29

in the world we have of so much tension

30:31

animosity towards each other, being

30:34

able to have a night where

30:36

literally like an hour and a half,

30:38

an hour and a half is all you need. You're

30:40

all together and you're just in the moment,

30:44

enjoying it, enjoying it. There's

30:47

not worrying about what work you have to do tomorrow,

30:50

about the day you've had. But this

30:52

guy thinks, sir, you're

30:54

just living your best life. Yeah,

30:57

it's really special, to be honest. My favorite

31:00

answered, so when you don't have your phone

31:02

out videotaping it, can

31:04

we talk about that. I'm very

31:06

conflicted. Okay,

31:09

here's my perspective. Okay, when I was I

31:11

think I was ten or eleven,

31:13

I saw I saw Maroon five,

31:16

Okay,

31:18

getting I'm getting

31:21

it was in mask and Square Garden. We

31:23

somehow got floor seats. It was like

31:26

the best thing ever. And

31:29

I remember so specifically Adam

31:31

Bean said, everybody, I want you to stop

31:34

videotaping. I want you to put

31:36

away your phones and just live in the moment. And

31:38

there was this girl that was still videotaping,

31:41

and he took her home, put

31:43

it on the stage. He goes, I'll give it back to you after

31:46

the set. And then and

31:49

I was like, man, this

31:51

is actually really great because though

31:53

I wish I could have this to look

31:56

back on my phone, I'm going

31:58

to have this in my memories of just living

32:00

in the moment. And this was what now, nine

32:02

years ago, and I still have specifically

32:04

that moment in my head. It's not recorded, and

32:08

I think that's what's great about it. Though I

32:10

want a videotaped look at, sometimes

32:13

the memories are better at my opinion, what's your take

32:15

on it? You know? I think for me as

32:17

an artist, as a performer,

32:20

I'm fine with it at my shows because

32:22

I want people to do what they want to do and

32:24

and like, this might sound really weird, but this is called

32:27

the Let's Be Real podcast, so I'm gonna be real.

32:29

But like it is, it does help me sometimes,

32:31

like when people post about my music at this point

32:34

because I'm still at such an early stage.

32:37

But I do like when

32:39

when I go to the shows, I'm

32:41

often like playing out my phone because

32:43

I want to be like, I want to post it and like,

32:45

look where I first instincts

32:48

now, isn't that so weird we

32:50

think about it? That's what's weird to me. That's

32:52

what I have to confront myself. I thought

32:54

about it like that brand, that's weird. But

32:57

like I don't think we should like we should have grace first

33:00

else than that as well. But it's just like no,

33:03

But the fact that our first instinct

33:05

now, now that I'm looking back, I'm analyzing my entire

33:07

life. The fact that our first instinct

33:09

now is to not

33:12

enjoy what we're doing but

33:14

tell people about it

33:17

is really interesting. And it's that whole

33:19

social media experiment that

33:23

bucks with my mind. Do you ever see the social

33:25

dilemma? Oh? I couldn't.

33:27

I couldn't speak for like three days after

33:29

I saw that. I have my phone out of

33:31

my social media app. Notification is

33:33

still off from that, I'm

33:36

proud of you. I'm proud of myself too

33:38

for that and it's helped a lot. So what I recommend

33:40

everybody take off the notifications

33:43

from Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, anything.

33:45

I only have it on for Gmail incredible,

33:48

So you're not tempted. You go on the apps when you want,

33:50

not when something alerts you it will help. See.

33:52

I love that, and I love that you watch that

33:55

that documentary and you made a

33:58

very like practical,

34:01

yes, conscious next step towards

34:03

your own mental health. Because I think I

34:06

think that was my experience watching the

34:08

documentary and I loved it, but I was also like, oh

34:10

my gosh, like it was very doomsday, and

34:12

I was like, because it is.

34:14

Yes, it hit too close to home, so

34:17

close, so close, and

34:19

it's succeeeing, even like the footage of the fourteen

34:21

year old girl and and the like

34:24

the rise of anxiety and depression

34:27

and suicide. All of that stuff was

34:29

so heavy. Um

34:32

and and so I think,

34:35

but I think what you did was so good is

34:37

like, let's make a conscious decision to

34:40

to change something about my interaction

34:42

with it. I think that, I

34:45

honestly think that is the path

34:47

forward. And that's why I talk about

34:49

it so much in my music as well, because I

34:51

mean, it's just it affects me, and so I talk

34:54

about it. But it's like social

34:56

media is not evil, it's

34:59

a neutral space, but the way

35:01

that we interact with it can be so

35:03

healthy or not healthy. Yeah.

35:05

Yeah, And so having

35:08

those having these discussions, having

35:10

conversation about it. I think that's

35:12

the way. I hope so, and I

35:14

think especially when people who

35:16

have a big following time but like, man,

35:18

this is not what I look like. This is from like a shoe

35:21

from like this is that I'm in my pajamas.

35:25

We have to take one more quick break. But when

35:27

we come back, let's talk about the perils

35:29

of growing a social media following. And I also

35:31

want to talk to you about your EP Can I be real,

35:34

which I am obsessed with. We'll be

35:36

right back. It's

35:44

so interesting and I for someone

35:46

who has anxiety, it's

35:50

can be so toxic so fast, and

35:53

I'm in this in between stage, which

35:55

I feel like this isn't talked about. I'm

35:57

building up my career right, I'm

36:01

trying to thank you. I'm trying to

36:03

think of it as more

36:05

of a business. But

36:08

it's so hard because at the same time, I'm a nineteen

36:10

year old girl being

36:12

on social media. They're the same pressures. Yet

36:15

I'm supposed to grow a following

36:18

in order and that somehow

36:20

is my worth how many followers I have, And that's

36:22

what companies look at. And I understand that

36:24

because it's a business, but it's really

36:26

hard sometimes and

36:29

it's personal because it's you. It's

36:31

like a business, but it's also you.

36:34

It is it's not like another

36:36

sort of like off side nail.

36:38

Yeah, it's polish. Are

36:42

you are? And it's finding that balance

36:44

between having the difference of Okay,

36:47

is this my worth? Is this really all that I'm

36:49

worth? And it's having to separate

36:51

that, like, no, there are two

36:53

separate things. How

36:56

have you dealt with that? Because I know I'm

36:59

sure you've had similar people have told you said

37:02

yes, yes, and

37:04

again I totally understand what they're saying,

37:07

um, and I want to be I want

37:09

to be there for that. I want to build. That's

37:12

why sometimes at concerts, I do, you

37:14

know, say like I'm here at this cool

37:17

thing, or like you know, like if you do make

37:19

those decisions and you do

37:21

want to promote what you're doing

37:23

and put yourself out there, and I you

37:26

best believe I'm on TikTok every day,

37:28

you know, just going

37:31

for it. But I think that,

37:33

yeah, it's it is a question of

37:36

worth and I think it's I think it's

37:38

like and I wish it wasn't too. I really,

37:40

I really wish I could mentally separate the two.

37:43

But it's sometimes I don't

37:45

know if it's being a teenage girl.

37:48

I don't know if it's being

37:50

in the entertainment industry. But

37:53

I'm learning and I go through phases of it like

37:55

Okay, how do I find a balance of

37:58

what's good for my mental health to say off

38:00

it? Because again, comparing yourself, I just

38:02

that's what ends up happening. But also having

38:05

to continue it. Yeah, yeah,

38:07

having to keep going and posting,

38:09

and yeah, I mean, well,

38:12

first of all, I think that the fact

38:14

that you're even having the conversation and you're

38:16

even naming that this

38:18

is how you feel, is like it's

38:20

honestly such a big part of it. I feel like this part

38:22

isn't talked about when people it should

38:24

be talking. It's not talked about it should

38:26

be. And I think, like

38:29

for me, it's like I have so much I want to do.

38:31

I would love like a million followers right

38:33

now, like life

38:36

a lot easier in a lot of ways. I feel like,

38:38

yeah, it would just be great. But even then,

38:41

you know, then it's like even like the

38:43

set of problems and there will never be

38:45

a moment where it's like, all right,

38:48

I'm good, you know. I think even when

38:50

you have all of that you're still going to have to deal with

38:52

your the worst thing. And

38:55

I think that it's about

38:57

knowing waking up and knowing like I think

39:00

you do is so good

39:02

for the world, you know,

39:04

like having on his conversations is

39:07

really good for the world. And even

39:10

if it doesn't feel like you know, this big

39:13

thing I know for me, like writing a song that

39:17

means something to me that I feel like it's going to

39:19

help someone, Like I think that at the end

39:21

of the day is all we

39:23

have. It just like am I waking

39:25

up doing my best contributing

39:27

something good? Yeah, and

39:30

knowing that that's it. Doesn't the

39:32

numbers will be there or they won't.

39:34

But I woke up and I did something

39:37

today. I think it's a little

39:39

like nicely put

39:41

no, but it's it's true, and it's

39:44

a it's an interesting balance.

39:46

And when I frankly, I've wanted you on

39:48

the pod for a minute now, right when I

39:50

think perform a Microsoft theater, I

39:52

don't pitch the idea, and

39:54

I said, what do you come on? You're like, of course, and like

39:57

so this is a full circle. It's happening.

40:00

But when I found out that your

40:03

new EP was called can I be realized like, could

40:05

this be better? But chills?

40:09

Okay, I would like to

40:11

say, tell me, I'm pretty yeah, it's

40:13

all about this, but we're talking about First

40:16

of all, it's a bob. Thank you, it's

40:18

a bob. I was listening to it when I was

40:20

in the shower. I was like, this is good Bob day.

40:25

I know you're so honest in your songwriting.

40:27

How did that song come about? That's

40:30

a that's a that's a real

40:32

one.

40:35

Um. Yeah, So it was a

40:38

couple of things. I wrote down the lyrics

40:41

maybe I'm worth more than some numbers or a score,

40:43

which is exactly what we're I mean there

40:45

it is. Um. I wrote that down

40:47

in college because there was a

40:50

scandal with the harvardman's

40:53

soccer team where

40:55

they had a group chat

40:58

rating freshman

41:01

women. But like to me, they were like girls

41:03

like still yeah, um

41:06

the incoming yeah, the incoming class

41:08

on their physical attractiveness

41:11

hotness, like literally

41:13

giving these women a number

41:16

and then describing you know, horrific,

41:18

just like horrible things said about these

41:20

women exposed to the group chat. I want

41:22

to know that. I don't know. To this day, I'm

41:24

not sure. Um, but some of my

41:27

friends it was they were. I think they were

41:29

juniors or seniors by the time it

41:31

all came out. But for me,

41:33

it just like not being part of it, but just

41:36

kind of watching it unfold. And like some of the

41:38

of my friends they wrote this incredible

41:40

op ed in the newspaper about like how

41:43

like why did we get here? The kind of thing.

41:46

It's just like the whole thing, And then I just

41:48

thought about how they must have felt and saw some

41:50

of them yeah kind of like go through it. But

41:52

at the same time, I was also going through like

41:54

the whole social media thing and like still

41:57

I'm you know, we're all still going through that. But I

42:00

is like feeling really awkward about

42:02

myself online and just um

42:06

and was having was still doing music, so it was like

42:08

having to post for that and

42:10

and then when you're your own brand too, and

42:12

when your own brand and here, and I was like

42:15

the whole body positivity conversation

42:17

wasn't happening quite yet, so I was like I

42:19

felt weird about my body, and

42:22

so I just I just like I was like, as

42:24

women, can we just not be reduced

42:26

to this thing? Can we just be like

42:30

can you just care about yeah, can you care about

42:32

what's in my brain for

42:34

just a second, like you know,

42:37

and just take me seriously what I have to contribute.

42:39

Yeah, and and also like beauty,

42:42

this concept of beauty is

42:45

so and we have just made it

42:48

about these like particular

42:50

standards that like someone probably

42:53

a dude, no

42:57

or who knows. Honestly, I'm sure there's like

42:59

a whole history thing there, but like reinforced

43:03

by this, like obviously what

43:06

you know, these women had gone through by dudes,

43:08

the objectifying thing. And then,

43:10

um, basically so I wrote down

43:12

in my lyric notebook that lyric. And I always

43:14

knew that I wanted it to become a song. And

43:17

I never, like, I wrote songs other songs

43:19

about the internet and stuff, but I never like landed

43:21

on that topic until

43:24

three years later I met a songwriter

43:27

named Michelle Buzz. She goes by Buzz,

43:29

but I called Michelle. What a great name,

43:31

what an incredible name. Incredible name

43:33

she's releasing at right now,

43:35

Um yeah, that's her actual name.

43:38

About Michelle, Michelle Buzz. She's

43:40

releasing new music really soon and everyone should

43:42

listen to it because she's incredible and

43:44

and talks about these things she's so good

43:46

at talking about like the real stuff and

43:49

anyway, So I just met her day

43:52

one. Why and I think this

43:54

is why we became best friends. Was

43:56

we were like man being a woman in the music

43:59

industry, like bro, Like we

44:01

really went there and talked

44:03

about how I talked about this of

44:05

like if I post as

44:08

a as a you know, aspiring songwriter, sporing

44:11

artist, if I post a picture without makeup

44:14

all the time, like is that going to gain me

44:16

new followers? Or do I need to post like the

44:18

like the sexy stuff because

44:21

that gets you followers. And

44:23

that was a hard truth like we

44:25

had we were like whoa, and so we just really

44:28

really we laid

44:31

it on thick and um,

44:33

we had a session with the Monarch, this

44:35

producer brother producer duo and

44:37

they were really like pumped about the

44:40

idea or Michelle and I just like we

44:42

were like, we have to write a song about this, and

44:44

so we did and tell me I'm

44:46

pretty was what came from that. And so

44:49

I'm very grateful. I was. Actually I've

44:51

been in rehearsals for the past week

44:53

for this Young Girl and

44:57

um, that song, it's

44:59

so fun to play. What would you say

45:01

the hardest part of being a female

45:04

in the music industry is well, I

45:06

wonder if it's that. I wonder if

45:08

it's that, you know, because I think

45:10

I think even like Billie Eilish has

45:13

talked about it a lot recently with

45:15

her new stuff of just like, you

45:17

know, you have to you have to pick a lane, like

45:19

of like, but I think, but

45:21

I also I also don't think you give to pick lane. I think as

45:24

a as a woman, you're going

45:26

to feel those pressures of like which

45:29

angle do I go down?

45:31

Which? And I think you just

45:33

have to silence all of that, like

45:35

Billy's doing, you know, like and just do

45:37

what feels right for you.

45:40

Social media is just they take the human

45:42

out of a person where we forget

45:46

they cry like they're just yeah,

45:51

we're all we're all human, you

45:53

know, And I feel like that should be celebrated.

45:56

And keep in mind everyone has her

45:58

insecurities. Oh yeah. If you say

46:00

you're not and you don't have insecurities,

46:02

then you're lying exactly. Instagram

46:05

social media's a picture perfect world. Can't

46:07

say it enough. I can't say it

46:10

enough. I'm insecure to post photos when

46:12

my acne is bad or when

46:14

I feel not good. You know, I

46:17

wish that wasn't the case. Yeah, I know, but

46:19

there's something about it. There's something about it.

46:22

But I think that's what's so special about

46:24

your music in particular, because there

46:27

are so many, so few people

46:29

that really dig into our

46:32

insecurities, really dig into that, because

46:35

it's a stigma that it shouldn't be. So

46:38

I applaud you for just being

46:41

so authentic in your writing and in

46:43

who you are. And though I know it

46:45

can be really hard, I'm sure with people

46:47

comparing themselves, like, keep

46:49

doing what you're doing because I look up to you a

46:51

lot. Thanks. I look up

46:53

to you for

46:55

talking about it. It's so exciting to

46:58

talk about it. And so yeah, it's

47:00

it's not it's not often, and I'm so glad

47:03

that we can just like have a conversation

47:05

and not where it's not media trained

47:08

and the same thing. But like, yeah,

47:10

man, life has been rough, and that's okay,

47:12

that's okay, that's part of

47:14

it. You believe through a pandemic. Be nice

47:17

to yourself. Be nice to yourself exactly

47:19

and to others. And please follow brand

47:22

on Instagram. Listen to her

47:24

ep can I be real? It's so

47:26

fitting. I was when I was listening to

47:29

some of the songs, I was like, man, this is important

47:31

that it's out, and so I'm so

47:34

glad it is and I'm so excited

47:36

for when new music. And I'm going to see you live.

47:38

Yes, You're awesome live, by the way, but

47:41

I've seen you twice one of the Microsoft Theater and

47:44

ar thresh Kid's Day. Yes, both

47:46

such fun day as well. I remember

47:48

when I first when I started the Microsoft Theaters, like

47:50

this girl is a bad as Thank you? That

47:52

was like our first show. Yeah, that was

47:55

a fun night. Pink suit, bring

47:57

it back? You think I should bring it back? Oh?

48:00

Interesting, Why wouldn't

48:02

you? I don't know, but this is one of the one

48:05

of my things. I'm like suit,

48:08

I love a lavender, right, and we

48:10

should bring them back just like since they

48:13

are I feel I love they're powerful

48:15

and are they more comfortable to performance? Absolutely,

48:18

because they're like usually like yeah, the fabrics

48:20

like louse and I

48:23

love a suit. Who does. Maybe I'll

48:25

bring it back. Let's bring it back. You can wear

48:27

the merch with a shirt on it.

48:32

I say, that's your style for story.

48:34

I love it. I love it. I'm gonna

48:36

have to hire you a stylist. Hey,

48:38

I'm here, I'm in californ I love

48:40

in California. Oh my god, that's so weird.

48:43

How does that feel? I don't know. I

48:45

love that, okay, because you're like you're

48:47

like New York, like you're

48:50

That's where I've lived my entire life. So

48:53

are you going to like own the bicoastal

48:55

thing or are you going to commit Okay

48:58

because no matter what, my dogs

49:00

there and Okay, well saying

49:03

goodbye to him, Yeah, I know wherever the dog

49:05

is is where home is exactly. That's what I say.

49:07

He needs to come to California. But thank

49:11

you Brent for coming on. Thank

49:20

you guys so much for listening to this week's episode

49:22

of The Left Bireau Podcast. If you haven't already,

49:25

follow Brin on Instagram, It's Bryn Elliott.

49:27

Follow her TikTok, listen to Can

49:29

I Be Real? It's She's just such

49:32

an incredible artist and I love

49:34

talking to her brand. Thank you again for coming on

49:36

my podcast, and if you haven't already,

49:38

makes sure you subscribe, leave a comment

49:41

about something you liked or any other guests

49:43

you want on, and don't forget to follow me

49:45

on Instagram at It's Sammy J. That's I T

49:47

S S A M M Y J. A y

49:49

e. Alright, guys, I will see you next time.