0:01

Hey guys, and welcome back to this week's

0:04

episode of the lest Bireau Podcast. As

0:06

always, I am your host, Sammy Jay, and

0:08

I hope your week is going well. I am so

0:10

glad that you are here because this is

0:12

probably one of my favorite episodes we've ever

0:15

put out because I got to chat with

0:17

you one and only former special assistant

0:19

to President Obama and also

0:21

served as director of public Engagement

0:24

for then Vice President Biden carry

0:26

Twig. She is now also the founder

0:28

of one of the most incredible production

0:30

and company's Culture House, and we talk

0:32

about everything from politics to

0:35

entertainment and everything in between. I'm

0:37

gonna let you, guys get right into this episode, but

0:39

I hope you love it as much as I do. Harry,

0:43

thank you so much for taking the time to come on my podcast.

0:46

I look up to so much, and not just everything you've

0:48

accomplished and created, but also the types

0:50

of stories you're telling and the impact.

0:52

It's just so amazing. Thank you. Thank

0:55

you for having me. I'm really excited. There's so many

0:57

things I want to get into. I want to start with how you

0:59

got into polity. Because I grew

1:01

up in New York, my mom always listened to the news.

1:03

So it was just kind of in my brain. Was

1:06

it just something that you came about or was ingrained

1:08

in your family? It wasn't ingrained

1:10

in my family. I have a very My dad

1:12

is steadfastly refused to become

1:14

a citizen. Um he was born and

1:16

raised in Barbados. And this whole

1:18

notion that when you become a citizen in the US, you

1:20

have to say that you forsake any

1:23

other allegiance to any other countries, Like

1:25

I can't do that, um, so's

1:27

he's not an American citizen. He does follow

1:30

politics, he's aware of it. But I didn't grow up in

1:32

a political family. And then my mother's side of

1:34

the family is like kind of very waspy,

1:36

and we don't talk about money or you know, politics.

1:39

And so you landed yourself in a very

1:41

interesting place. I did. But it's interesting

1:43

because my parents are political, even

1:45

if they're not like politically active. And so my

1:47

mom is a social worker. My dad is

1:50

a black immigrant. My mom was a social

1:52

worker too. I don't think I knew

1:54

that it's so helpful when you have anxiety attacks,

1:58

really helpful. I mean, my mom such a

2:00

um. But what actually happened

2:02

was when I was about eleven or twelve.

2:04

I asked my mom what government is, and she

2:06

told me it's old white men sitting in a room

2:09

deciding how free you are, which

2:12

is still the most saying an accurate definition I've

2:14

ever heard. And I remember we were just driving

2:16

down the street in the car, just so casually.

2:18

Yeah, and she was like yeah, she just rattled this off, and

2:21

like, what are you saying. It's like life

2:23

path changed now in

2:25

that moment, changed the trajectory of my life, because

2:28

at that point I would probably would have been in like fifth,

2:30

sixth grade, and everything

2:33

you had been taught up to that point was like, this

2:35

is the freest country in the world. It is the

2:37

most equal country. I

2:39

have a dream, right, like all these things. And

2:42

that just really brought home

2:44

that the kind of contradiction that I think so

2:46

many people understand about America

2:49

as they age or as they go into the adult

2:51

world, they're like, oh, we're kind

2:53

of full of it. Um.

2:56

But I kind of got introduced to that notion really

2:58

early, and and I decided I

3:00

was going to be one of those people in that room

3:03

because no one, no one's making decisions

3:05

without me, um. And and

3:07

that's what I did. I feel like politics

3:10

and being politics, it's a whole other

3:12

universe. And then you know, you

3:14

go into the White House, your special assistant

3:16

for Obama, and you want to just want to make sure

3:19

I get this right director of Public Engagement for under

3:21

Biden. That's a lot of work

3:23

and I'm so curious, what is what was like a day

3:25

in your life? Then you know, it was really

3:28

fascinating because the White House is this incredibly

3:30

particular place,

3:33

um and kind of peculiar place in

3:35

that it's this tiny

3:37

campus, Like the White House is actually very small,

3:41

and you walk up and you

3:43

see the you know, you get off the

3:45

bus or whatever. I sometimes I drove.

3:48

Sometimes I to the bus and

3:50

you see the iconic building and you walk

3:52

up. There's people protesting outside, or

3:54

there's there's always action news,

3:57

you know, news cameras and correspond

4:00

there's something happening around the White House.

4:02

And then you walk in and you have this hallowed

4:05

experience. You go through the gates and

4:07

then you're still just at your job and you're just

4:09

sort of like if Debbie says, well I'm going to

4:11

me today, like I'm just I'm going to flip

4:14

my desk, you know, but you you still have

4:16

the like petty annoyances and daily

4:18

job and the White House

4:21

so many of the you know, two thousand

4:23

people that work there are political appointees

4:25

that come in and serve at the pleasure of the President.

4:28

And we are all people who want

4:30

to change society, but also who were type

4:32

A who love to be the smartest person in

4:34

the room, who are very mission driven,

4:36

who like think they're the best in the brightest.

4:38

How does that work when so many people are also

4:41

brilliant in one room, Like how do you get things

4:43

done? It's a great question. It's

4:46

a it's a question worth asking, you

4:48

know, and I think it's you know,

4:50

it can be both the greatest thing in the world and it can

4:52

also be, you know, like

4:55

many like many things are

4:57

best qualities are often sometimes our worst

4:59

qualities. So um

5:01

so that existed, but you know, it was an extraordinary

5:03

privilege, and I think for me every

5:07

time other I got to bring people

5:09

into the White House and see it

5:11

through their eyes. It was this incredibly

5:13

kind of transcendent and magical moment where

5:16

people who just couldn't believe the

5:18

White House would ever be that way, could ever be filled

5:20

with you know, young vibrant,

5:23

just kids trying to figure it out on

5:25

their best, all of these things, and

5:28

there were people were just so proud of us, you

5:30

know, and I think we were all kind of tired

5:32

and slowly crawling

5:35

to an early grave. But because

5:38

you're it's just it's rigorous, right, You're just working.

5:40

How many hours do you work a day? Twelve

5:43

to fourteen, six seven days a week

5:45

for years, and even

5:47

when you are not physically there,

5:50

it's just alive in your consciousness.

5:53

How do you compartmentalize that? I'm sure you

5:55

don't, you know, like if I saw a BlackBerry

5:57

today with like the blinking red light, my I

6:00

might start twitching just like response,

6:04

Well, you know what, it's so good that BlackBerry doesn't exist anymore.

6:06

You know, they discontinued, so you don't

6:08

have to worry about that ever again. Yeah,

6:11

but um, yeah it was. I mean it was extraordinary.

6:14

But also it's also

6:16

a job, Yeah it is. You know, what

6:18

was the difference in the managerial styles between

6:21

Obama and Biden? Was there a difference in how

6:23

they delegated work

6:26

or how they communicated with you? This

6:28

is fascinating. You know, no one's ever asked me this

6:31

question. Before I feel like it's a go

6:33

to know people. I mean, people ask me about their

6:35

personalities, but I want to know

6:37

about how they're supposed to run the

6:39

country. I want to know how they run in

6:41

office. I will say this

6:44

is so, this is one of those things. I still have a little

6:46

bit of Stockholm syndrome from the White House

6:48

of like can I talk about

6:50

it outside of it? But like no one cares

6:52

what you know.

6:55

But I understand that when it's so

6:57

involved in it's so much of your life, for so, how

7:00

do you compartmentalize to kind of separated

7:02

and you get so fiercely loyal to them that

7:05

you just don't want to say anything that might be taken

7:07

the wrong way or come off other people

7:09

too. And I think we need to realize that exactly.

7:12

So, my my, I

7:14

would say that President

7:17

Obama was far more of a

7:19

true executive personality

7:21

wise, whereas President Biden.

7:24

Don't forget President Biden searched for like forty

7:26

years in the Senate. Like it's such a legist,

7:29

he's so such a decision by committee.

7:31

He's such a legislator. He wants everyone's

7:33

involvement. When he's a collaborator, he

7:35

is um and he is

7:40

much more kind

7:42

of willing and interested

7:44

in kind of thirty people's

7:46

opinion and synthesizing

7:49

from that place and trying to build consensus

7:51

and find something that works for as

7:53

many people as possible, whereas

7:55

President Obama was absolutely

7:57

in the interested in the opinions of experts

8:00

and science and his advisors

8:02

and looking at a problem from as many

8:04

potential angles as he could.

8:06

But I think he was much more comfortable

8:10

going alone when he when

8:13

he felt that was the right

8:15

thing to do. And again, these are like me projecting

8:17

into your

8:19

experience. Yeah, I think

8:22

I I have a hard

8:24

time imagining there would be many people who would disagree

8:26

with me on that. I feel like it's a very

8:28

fair assessment just from an outside

8:30

perspective, because there was a lot of decisions that Obama

8:33

had to make that we're so

8:36

so carried so much weight,

8:38

and if you have thirty people's opinions

8:40

and that, how do you make the decision? That's something

8:43

that I don't know how you would have to do.

8:45

Yeah, Yeah, but you know, I think we all have our own

8:47

unique brain chemistry, and there's other there

8:50

are we all have our own unique path to

8:53

getting to a point where we're poised

8:55

and ready to make a decision, and for some

8:57

people having a lot of opinions ACT

9:00

really makes it more difficult. And for some people

9:02

having more, the more opinions they hear, the

9:04

more they've got checked their own position.

9:07

So I don't know. I think it's six and a half dozen.

9:09

I don't think one way is inherently better than the other.

9:11

I think what's important is that we, as

9:13

individuals, whether you're the president or not, understand

9:17

your own decision making process

9:19

and understand what works best for you and then apply

9:22

that to as many situations as you can and

9:24

how you learn best because everyone learns so differently,

9:26

and I feel like that goes into the whole thing,

9:29

a whole other topic with the education system, where

9:31

we're taught one way, when it's we all learned

9:33

so many different ways exactly like standardized

9:36

tests come up. Yeah, no, I mean, we're

9:38

just we're doing so many things wrong. It's amazing. I

9:40

know, it's one of those things.

9:42

I don't know if you know this, but like my life passion

9:45

is to want to fix the education system because

9:47

I've grown up with learning disabilities my entire life,

9:49

and I am so grateful to having

9:51

been able to go to a special at school and have

9:53

tutors when that's just not the case for so

9:56

many people. And it's just a conversation

9:58

that's unfortunately not being had when it affects

10:00

so one in five kids, and that's just people

10:02

that are diagnosed with learning differences. I mean, that's

10:04

amazing, and it is one of my

10:07

my poor friends. UM have to hear

10:09

me rant about kind of a

10:12

lot, and unfortunately repetitively,

10:14

but all the time, I'm just something

10:17

happens that I am just incensed about what

10:19

I learned in school. Like I can write cursive and I

10:21

can read analog clocks, but I was thirty before

10:24

I could appropriately identify my feelings,

10:26

let alone communicate them.

10:28

And I'm just like, what did you teach me? No? Like

10:30

I want to I want to know like how to balance

10:33

a check, how to do like basic

10:36

Like yeah, there's just just

10:39

plot missing. Why did no one teach me

10:41

like how to make friends or like how to be a good

10:43

friend or how do you actually have a relations like

10:45

so many things about like being a human

10:48

being literally that are really

10:50

deeply necessary. Um,

10:52

but no, it's sorry, I know how to do you know?

10:54

I know what the capital of the state. I've never been

10:56

to this, so that's cool. It's

10:59

something that I think just seeing

11:01

how much we've how

11:03

far we've come in how far we haven't come in our country

11:05

in the past seven years, and

11:08

kind of taking a moment to reflect

11:10

was being in the White House? Did that make you believe more

11:13

in democracy? Or did it make you

11:15

doubt it more? Because I feel like we've

11:17

been through a lot in the past couple of years and that's

11:19

put in put into question And I want

11:22

to get your thoughts on that. You ask a really

11:24

good questions. Um, that's

11:26

that's fascinating. I think that

11:29

it made Wow,

11:32

this is a great question. I think that it, Um,

11:34

it made me recognize democracy

11:38

as being the miracle that it actually

11:41

is. It's literally

11:43

just people sitting in a room trying their best,

11:46

and it is a miracle to

11:50

made it this far. Yeah. Um,

11:52

it is hard. It is a human

11:55

enterprise and human beings are gonna human

11:59

one. I don't know human beings. Humans

12:02

are gonna human and it is

12:04

amazing we have endured as

12:07

long as we actually have. And so I

12:09

think what it made me, uh,

12:13

was really compassionate

12:15

for how hard it is to try

12:18

and do the right thing and come

12:20

up with a solution. No problem

12:22

that gets to the White House is easily solvable,

12:25

if solvable at all, right, otherwise it would have been

12:27

solved way before it makes it to Washington.

12:30

And the sheer

12:32

kind of scale of

12:35

the world and how complex that

12:37

it is, and not even just this

12:39

country. I mean, this is the third most populous country

12:41

in the world. We have one of the most diverse

12:44

populations you can possibly imagine.

12:47

A regional differences are class differences.

12:49

I mean, it's just governing. America

12:52

is that kind of ungovernable and

12:54

the fact that it's been governed so

12:57

consistently for the duration

13:00

of its um

13:02

of its history is an

13:04

extraordinary thing. Do

13:06

you have hope for the future of our

13:08

country? I sort of have

13:10

to have hope otherwise I can't

13:13

get out of bed. That's so fair, you know,

13:15

Um I don't. I am.

13:18

I'm a big believer that America is going

13:20

to feel and be very different and

13:23

should be. It actually desperately

13:27

needs to change. This country does not work

13:29

in really fundamental ways.

13:32

It's just broken. Yeah, I mean the

13:34

economy does not. It just doesn't work.

13:37

Um, So our education

13:39

system, all of these major markers

13:42

that affects so much of our future too, truly,

13:44

and that determine the health of a society

13:47

are not working at

13:49

nearly the like there's a massive

13:51

gap in our like we're one

13:53

thing that America really is probably the best in the world

13:56

at is perpetuating delusions.

13:58

So and the Internet it's just

14:00

so great for that, you know, it really helps. And

14:02

we just love to be delusional about

14:04

how good we are at things, Like we're just really

14:07

not doing very well on so

14:09

many key factors. And

14:11

it's like where the aunt that says they're fine and they're

14:13

doing great, when you know they're just not doing great,

14:16

you know, and you're just like, but you're crying,

14:19

but like im but I'm looking at you know,

14:23

you're saying you're okay.

14:26

Um. You know, like

14:29

when you compare experiences around

14:31

education and the cost of education, when you when

14:33

you and the outcomes of that education, when you

14:35

experience like what it is to raise a family, what it

14:37

means to have a job, what it means to have benefits,

14:39

what it means to have a civic environment

14:42

that is responsive and adaptable to the

14:44

changing needs of a population. When

14:46

you look at the way that we are responding to demographic

14:49

change. Um, America doesn't

14:51

like change. Well, the human beings don't know human

14:53

change. That's so fair myself,

14:56

I mean, despite the fact that we are all

14:59

the most inconsistent animals ever. Like

15:01

I was a different person yesterday and it's

15:03

like you catch me, and the breeze is coming

15:05

from a different direction, and the moon is like

15:09

you know what I mean, like who is she today?

15:12

Um? And yet if anyone else

15:14

changed, and God help us, so

15:18

you know, so a long way

15:20

of saying, I think I have to have hope.

15:22

But I mean I try and be as clear eyed

15:24

as I possibly can. And I think this this

15:28

notion of America as the

15:30

city on the hill, as the kind

15:32

of best freest country

15:35

in the world is um

15:38

is a forest. It could still be made true, but

15:41

we would have to make some pretty substantive and radical

15:43

and quick decisions. We

15:45

would. And I've been feeling great helpless the past couple

15:47

of years, like many, and I think something that

15:50

it's I've been asking myself is what can

15:52

I do? What can I do from home? Because there's so many

15:54

things to do, it could be overwhelming to start, so

15:56

for someone in college or in high school that

15:58

wants to start getting involved

16:00

and educating themselves and being an activist.

16:03

Do you have any advice on how does

16:05

how to just take two steps forward and get started

16:07

on that process? I mean, first and foremost,

16:09

like, you can't fix something

16:12

externally if it's not fixed

16:14

internally, right, So when you're that age,

16:16

focus on just being who you want to

16:18

be. The freer you are, the freer

16:20

the person next to you is. And so if

16:22

you can find a way to do that without doing

16:24

it at the expense of someone else, If you can

16:27

just be a person who is community oriented,

16:29

who is thoughtful and engaged in the

16:31

world around you, then that's

16:34

a phenomenal place to start. I

16:36

think. Also I

16:38

talk, I often compare politics

16:40

for most people um to Nascar

16:43

for me, which is NASCAR is

16:45

like the second biggest sport in the countree. I think it's

16:47

like a multibillion dollar enterprise.

16:49

Thousands and thousands of people go to

16:51

these rallies or the races.

16:54

You know, they're on billboards or magazines, on TV's

16:56

in the newspaper. It's everywhere, and

16:59

I can't tell you anything about it.

17:01

Like I get the vague idea like cars driver

17:04

from what I understand five hundred times,

17:06

which how is no one getting dizzy? I don't understand

17:08

what's going on? But like, can't name you a car,

17:11

can't name you a driver. I know that, like Indianapolis,

17:13

like right,

17:17

And so it's like despite it being completely

17:20

surrounded by and I grew up in Ohio, so like

17:23

I grew up in some NASCAR like

17:25

world, you know, and still

17:28

managed to avoid having any idea what it

17:30

is. And so I think that's how

17:32

most people are about politics.

17:34

Right. You're surrounded by it, and

17:37

yet we're able to kind of siphon

17:40

it out of our worldview. And

17:42

this is all my my aversion to nascars

17:45

pre algorithms. So I can't even blame that,

17:47

Like, I don't know what I was, just ignoring it,

17:49

right, And you know, people

17:51

are often unaware of the fact that there's

17:53

five hundred thousand elected officials in this country.

17:56

I did not know that they're everywhere.

17:59

Right, really are are governing the

18:02

down to the block where you live. Right,

18:04

It's not just congress people, it's not just people

18:06

on the federal level. It's not just um your

18:08

state legislators and senators. It's

18:10

it's your county commissioners and yours

18:13

and your d A and your sheriff and

18:16

and so I think the

18:18

more you get involved in where

18:20

and understand where you actually are

18:22

and what your place, even if it's temporary,

18:25

right, who look up? Who your

18:27

representatives are? What? How

18:29

many hungry kids are there in your neighborhood? Because

18:31

I bet there's some right like what

18:34

is the we've googled?

18:36

We can if we can google it, we can do it. Like

18:38

what are the rent laws? And your you

18:40

know, how are your schools if you're in high school? How is your

18:42

school funded? Is your school funded by property

18:44

taxes? Like? Okay, what disparity

18:46

is that creating between your suburb and the

18:48

kids who grew up just happened to be born

18:51

down the street? Um? Is

18:53

that fair? Is that okay with you? If

18:55

not, what does that mean? Right?

18:57

And I think figuring out

18:59

who who you are and figuring out where

19:01

you are is the important first step.

19:04

And you know you're doing your podcast,

19:07

I'm not telling stories. I

19:09

I used to work in politics and government. There's

19:11

like activism is multifaceted

19:15

endeavor and people and it is best

19:17

when people show up as

19:19

their authentic selves. And I know that that's

19:21

such an overused term. But but it's it's true,

19:24

and like do whatever works, bake cupcakes.

19:27

You know, I don't love a crowd. She's

19:30

she's not an extrovert. Okay,

19:32

so I don't really go to protests

19:35

Like that's not part of my activism journey.

19:37

That's not for me. That find that very stressful.

19:39

I sleep for two days afterwards, and I'm like, good

19:41

God, do that again. Um

19:44

that said, I will call and harass any

19:46

elected official. Not harass,

19:49

but there's yeah,

19:52

I'll raise money. I will volunteer

19:56

on campaigns. I've volunteered almost sorts of campaigns.

19:58

I vote religiously. Um,

20:00

I will you know, harangue my

20:02

friends and my family members to all of them. Like.

20:05

So there's all sorts of ways to be involved

20:07

and to be part of the struggle. And

20:10

it's just about finding what works for you

20:12

and what is sustainable for you. We

20:15

have to take one quick break, but when we come

20:17

back, I want to talk about your pivot from politics

20:20

to entertainment, the impact you hope to

20:22

make through storytelling, working with Oprah,

20:24

and so much more. We'll be right back

20:32

and we're back. I love

20:35

what you said about we have to be your

20:37

best self. You have to find yourself first. When

20:39

you were finding yourself, what was

20:42

what was that process? Like, how did you go

20:44

about that? Do you have any advice? Because I'm on that

20:46

journey now, and boy, it's a journey.

20:49

I you know, I'm still finding

20:51

myself. I feel like I'm gona have been several different

20:53

people over the course of my life, and I think there's always

20:55

been a thread of me that's

20:58

been consistent in the same. But

21:01

it's you know, I talked to friends of mine from

21:03

twenty years ago and we tell stories.

21:05

I'm just like, oh, man, I forgot I like

21:07

that, I forgot I was that way

21:09

or whatever. Um,

21:12

which I think is a good thing. We should all be trying

21:14

on different personalities and different

21:17

trying different I

21:20

got my nose piers. Look at that go

21:22

for you know. I had my nose piers too,

21:25

you know. And I

21:27

think it's all it's about being open

21:30

um to the possibility of change

21:32

and to the fact that you don't have to ever be

21:34

the same person. It is okay to be a

21:37

different person. It is okay to see

21:39

someone or meet someone and say, oh I

21:41

like that about you. I'm going

21:43

to incorporate that into my personality. We

21:46

get into this idea that our

21:48

personalities are inherent and that they're fixed,

21:50

and they're not. They are dress

21:52

and they are just a response to some nonsense

21:55

that happened when we were kids. Like my older

21:57

sisters a visual artist. She's

22:00

incredibly talented and has

22:02

always been so. Not only is she just

22:04

artistically gifted, but she had plus five

22:06

years on me motor skill wise. And

22:09

I realized that I was competing with her for like

22:11

my little drawings and stuff in like second

22:13

and third grade, and she was always so much

22:15

better, and so I made me feel inadequate

22:17

as a little kid. And so I was like, oh, I'm not artistic,

22:19

I'm not creative. I'm not doing that. That's

22:22

my sister's thing. I'm going to go do something

22:24

completely different because I don't want to be compared

22:26

to my sister and I don't want to compete

22:28

with her. I convinced

22:30

myself at like seven that

22:33

I wasn't a creative like who And then

22:35

I'm still living that life when I'm twenty eight.

22:37

Right, I'm still living that life and thinking

22:40

of not thinking of myself as a creative person

22:43

because of seven year old moment

22:46

when I comply tie her shoes

22:48

because someone who can't tie her shoes, it's

22:53

still running my life. That's that's

22:55

what. That's ridiculous, um,

22:57

And yet we all do that. It's so new

23:00

ways. And it took me actually

23:02

describing myself as not being a creative

23:04

person in front of my sister, and

23:06

my sister calling me out and be like, what are you talking

23:08

about? Why don't you think you're creative?

23:11

But like my seven year old self said it,

23:13

what are you talking about? Just

23:16

total nonsense? So you

23:18

know, I then got to take

23:21

on this other personality and this explore

23:23

this other side of myself, and

23:26

I think that that evolution is really

23:28

important. And then I think one thing that we don't

23:30

say enough, and I certainly feel like I

23:32

wasn't told enough, is that

23:35

pain has a lot of information in it,

23:37

and no generation

23:40

of human beings ever has found a way

23:42

to live a pain free life, and

23:44

no generation ever will and

23:46

if they do, it's like the end, right,

23:49

because there's nothing then

23:51

to evolve, And then you don't appreciate the good

23:53

if you don't have exactly, And

23:56

pain is terrible and it sucks and

24:00

none of us should wallow in it. But if you can just

24:02

sit with it and try not to avoid

24:04

it and try to sit, you

24:07

know, and try and sit with it for as long

24:09

as you need to at least take the time to ask

24:11

the question, like what information is here?

24:14

Anger has a lot of information in it, And I know,

24:16

for me, I didn't let myself be angry

24:18

for years and years and years because it

24:20

was not what I was conditioned to do right, and

24:23

I had really bad temper when I was a kid. My

24:25

parents were always trying to moderate

24:27

it because they're just explode and

24:29

so but the my

24:31

way of doing that, instead of learning

24:33

how to feel and process my emotions,

24:35

was to suppress them. But anger

24:38

has a lot of information. That's where you find out what your boundaries

24:40

are. And so, you

24:43

know, obviously avoid harming

24:45

yourself or harming anyone else, or making impulsive,

24:47

rash decisions, but also try and sit

24:50

in your feelings enough to understand what information

24:52

is there and why your body is making you feel

24:55

these things, so that you can learn how

24:57

to again be who you are or figure

24:59

out how you want to exist in the world at that particular

25:01

time, and ask yourself

25:03

those questions ongoing, Like, you

25:05

know, I have this idea that I'm going to start a new career

25:08

every ten years. That I could

25:10

see you doing that,

25:13

that manifested girl. Um.

25:17

And I think part of that is because I'm someone

25:20

who needs external changes in order

25:22

to ask myself internally.

25:24

If I'm like, we'll check up, how are we doing? And

25:27

the more I change my external circumstances,

25:30

the more primed I am

25:32

to explore those questions internally.

25:34

And that's the process that works for me.

25:37

But I think it really starts with being open

25:39

to the idea that you're a lot more malleable

25:41

than you think, and your personality is

25:44

a lot more of a choice than than

25:46

we think. That's so true.

25:48

I've been living my life in three months

25:51

chunks over the past because

25:53

I've noticed how much I change in three months,

25:55

my interest change. I feel like

25:57

I've evolved more and grow and like, if that can happen

26:00

in three months, we're just gonna plan

26:02

in three months, because if we try a year, we're gonna be so different

26:04

from then. And it's worked out so well.

26:07

I love this. I know we're coming up our and three

26:09

months, so we get to refresh it again. We

26:11

get to figure out our new intentions, priorities,

26:13

So I love it. That's great. Something

26:16

that I'm very, very

26:18

very excited to chat with you about. Is

26:20

this pivot in your career that you've

26:22

had something I'm learning in school. They're kind of like,

26:24

Okay, we're going to teach you this. This is what

26:26

you have to do the rest of your life and then get

26:29

good at and that's it. But frankly,

26:31

there are so many things and I feel like I

26:34

can I feel sometimes trapped at school because

26:36

I feel like, Okay, this is the one thing I have to do, but no

26:39

life can change. And so concuruise and you did that.

26:41

You went from politics to storytelling

26:43

and created this incredible production

26:45

company that I have been

26:48

very fortunate to intern for. And

26:50

I love everything you guys are creating

26:53

because it it feels like it's bigger

26:55

than ourselves. And so I was

26:57

wondering what that transition was like and what made you

27:00

switch to this field. Well, first

27:02

of all, thank you, and it's been such a pleasure to have you

27:04

at Culture House. So much fun. Yeah,

27:07

um, if you can't tell

27:09

already, it's like, I'm very invested in this idea

27:11

that we can all change and we all should change.

27:13

That's and that's really good for

27:16

us. I sort of you know, I've wanted to

27:18

work at the White House since I was thirteen or fourteen,

27:20

and then I get there.

27:23

I'm on my way out of the White House at

27:25

thirty. Yea, what do you do when your last two

27:27

bosses are the president? You know what

27:29

I mean? Where do you go from there? It's true, It's

27:32

like it's like my former boss

27:34

like, my former bosses are the

27:36

former president United current president?

27:39

Like, what do you do from here? No? Just I'm ruined, Like

27:41

I can't work. Can you imagine anyone telling

27:44

me what to do? Somebody married? It

27:46

wasn't going to go well anywhere, and that's why you start

27:48

your own company. It wasn't gonna go well

27:50

anyway. Um My, one of my

27:52

former bosses from the White House told me I'm the worst

27:54

employee he's ever had because

27:56

I kept referring to us as being colleagues.

27:59

He's like, we are not colleagues. Do you

28:01

work for me? But like we

28:03

worked together though, but do

28:05

I It's

28:07

not reversed a little bit. Such

28:09

a nightmare. Um but

28:12

yeah, So I left the White House at thirty and

28:15

realized I had no other hobbies or interests.

28:17

What was that like? Oh? Scary

28:20

awful it was. I had a total meltdown.

28:23

I had a total breakdown at

28:25

thirty. It was spectacular, truly

28:27

one of the best things that ever happened to me. But like,

28:32

oh God, wouldn't wish it, wouldn't wish, wish

28:34

it on an enemy, and yet would work wish it on everyone.

28:38

So I think the short

28:40

answer is, I don't

28:42

know that's actually gonna be that short. But I think two things

28:44

were really happening for me at that moment in time.

28:47

One was that I was exploring this idea of myself as

28:49

a creative person. Two

28:51

was that it was really clear that what

28:53

we so much of what we were trying to accomplish in the

28:55

Obama years were

28:58

culturally ahead where the country

29:00

was, and in

29:03

order to legislate or build policy around something,

29:06

the idea for it really has to exist

29:09

first in the kind of collective imagination of

29:11

the country. Right, we saw what happened

29:13

with healthcare, whereas we didn't really

29:15

have a framework, the general population

29:17

did not have a framework for what universal

29:19

health care could be, and so it was really easily

29:21

to then manipulate that into something that was like

29:23

about death panels and like all the

29:25

other nonsense and Sarah Palin and her

29:28

cohort were kind of propagating

29:30

at that time, so useful,

29:33

helpful to the American people, could God.

29:36

But now the people have had it for four years or

29:38

ten years, or however long it's been. I can't not

29:41

time isn't a thing anymore. I don't

29:43

even worry about it. But

29:46

now the people have had it, they are like religiously

29:48

defending it. Right. And so whereas

29:52

or thirty five percent of the country supported it

29:54

prior to its enactment, now six does.

29:57

And we see the same thing when it comes to things like marriage

29:59

or quality. Right, But marriage equality doesn't

30:02

happen without will and grace, without Ellen's

30:04

de generous, without Rosie o'donald, without

30:06

the sort of so many cultural

30:08

touchstones that helped introduce

30:11

people and beloved kind

30:13

of figures into this world or

30:15

into the popular consciousness of

30:18

the country. And so when I was leaving the White

30:20

House, it was really clear that that dynamic was at play

30:22

around a range of issues, whether it

30:24

was sustainability and climate

30:26

change, whether it was race

30:28

relations, whether it was gender

30:31

roles, gender norms, gender relations

30:33

were still very much operating in a country

30:35

that believes in a zero sum game. Right,

30:38

that for black people to have rights and

30:40

dignity has to be taken from white

30:42

people. For women to have equality,

30:44

opportunity, agency, authority

30:47

has to be taken from men. It's not like we

30:49

can all just coexist, which

30:51

is which is such an absurd

30:54

way of thinking about it, Like as though

30:56

freedom is a bicycle that you can just take.

30:59

I lost, I lost the tire. I need

31:01

one now, you know, Like these are

31:03

concepts so in

31:06

the same around wealth, Right, those

31:08

were all things that were really clear. We're

31:12

being affected by the stories that we were

31:14

telling in this country,

31:16

Like the inevitable, uh,

31:19

the inevitable end result of

31:22

John Wayne, one man goes

31:24

alone and he's doing it his way and we're

31:26

gonna love him for it. Anyway,

31:28

Like the inevitable result of

31:31

that story that we have told over

31:33

and over and over and over again is Donald

31:35

Trump. Yeah, because he starts

31:37

running for president, Everyone's like, oh, I like that guy.

31:40

But it's because we've been watching him on TV. Not

31:43

only just him on TV, but that particular

31:45

story he was telling feels familiar.

31:48

Right, It's the Top

31:50

Gun and I watched the hell out of Top

31:52

Gun and like nearly wept a Maverick.

31:55

I don't say I love that this is a perfect movie.

31:57

I was obsessed with that, loved it, But it's the

31:59

exact same thing, like one Man

32:03

on a Mission, right, because

32:06

like the inevitable end

32:08

result of those stories is total

32:10

dysfunction. Um. And

32:13

so we have to tell different

32:15

stories if we want different political outcomes.

32:17

And I think I was starting to realize

32:20

that as I was leaving the White House. And to me, it's

32:22

not aid. Yeah, And

32:24

and it's not a coincidence to me that so many

32:26

people from the Obama era, including the Obama's

32:29

have now gone into storytelling, because

32:31

I think we're all sort of making that sort of understanding

32:34

that the country needs a cultural scaffold

32:37

in order to build meaningful

32:39

kind of collective policy around

32:42

um, some of these other

32:44

ways of seeing the world. Yeah,

32:47

So that's that's why I left. I

32:49

was also really tired, how

32:51

Okay, So I just have to know, like, once

32:54

your job ended, how like what was your

32:56

record of sleep? Like? Was there like

32:58

a total like you like a full to only four

33:00

hours? Seriously? Has

33:02

anyone have you read this book by

33:05

Tessa mass Fe My Year of Rest and Relaxation.

33:07

No, but I need to now well, it's

33:10

super morbid, fantastic.

33:12

She well she's a fantastic fiction writer,

33:14

but she's just dark, dark and

33:16

reverse. But anyway, so this girl basically

33:18

just like medicates herself and stays

33:20

in bed for a year. So that was me, but without

33:23

the drugs. I mentally

33:25

did it years. I mean from for the

33:28

first eight months, I was probably

33:30

asleep as much as I was awake, Like I probably

33:32

slept twelve up

33:34

for yeah, for a solid half

33:36

year. Um, and I didn't

33:38

really work. I took um,

33:41

which I encourage everyone to do, and no one

33:43

really seems to take me up as much as they should

33:46

um just to not work. And

33:48

so I just didn't work for like eight

33:50

months. What was that? That nice? It was

33:53

amazing. I went to like everything

33:55

people invited me to, and it was

33:57

one of those things was like, do not invite me to your grandma's house

33:59

and sis, because I will show up. I'm

34:02

looking at plane tickets right now.

34:04

I love Grandma's I love sicily like

34:07

let's roll. It's like my life motto

34:09

right now. Funk it? Why not exactly? Yeah?

34:12

Um, so I thought, yeah,

34:14

I had to funk it? Why not here? And but

34:17

a sleepy one I was asleep for a very fort

34:20

that's okay,

34:22

yeah, And then moved up to New

34:24

York, ended up meeting my business

34:27

partners, who the women who then became

34:29

my business partners, um,

34:31

and we start a culture

34:33

house, and now I'm in l A and you

34:36

know, still doing my best. I want to talk

34:38

about hairtails for a second, because I think the

34:41

messaging of the show is so

34:43

important, and I think the

34:45

casting and the way

34:47

it's filmed, the aesthetic of it is just so

34:50

on point and just so perfect.

34:52

And I just have to know what was it like working with Oprah?

34:55

It's wild and what was that like? You

34:58

know, you've done, You've done the press, You've

35:00

done Oprah. What's next? Basically

35:03

the um

35:06

I mean talk about people who are in their

35:09

pocket, right, and no one can see my hand

35:11

gesture, right, there's a handshure hand

35:13

gesture that is illustrating what I'm saying. But

35:16

you know, and she'll say it. Ms. Winfrey

35:19

will say, you know, she's living

35:21

in her purpose, like she found

35:23

her like she found the

35:26

zone, the portal through which

35:28

she makes all of her decisions and

35:30

all of her actions are in integrity

35:33

with her purpose. And that's why

35:35

it all works. And it works so extraordinarily

35:38

well, and you feel that you feel in

35:41

the same way that we all pick up on all sorts of things

35:43

about each other. Yeah, there's

35:46

a real magnetism to her, and

35:48

there's a real sense of like,

35:50

oh, she is in integrity,

35:52

Like she does what she says, she says what she

35:55

means. She is a consistent

35:57

and confidently consistent human

35:59

being, ing who even

36:02

in sort of micro moments and micro

36:04

movements, is hyper present,

36:07

like she's showing up beauti fully

36:10

to whatever is happening in

36:12

that moment, which I think in Tracy

36:14

is the same way. I mean, Tracy is an extraordinarily

36:17

embodied and present person

36:20

when she is in front of you, she is in front

36:22

of you and all of hers there, and she's not

36:24

thinking about what she could be doing instead, or

36:27

how does she look, or how does she think the other person

36:29

thinks she looks. I mean, all we all have those

36:31

things. But when she taps

36:34

in, she becomes an extraordinarily

36:36

powerful person. And

36:39

not to say that she's not powerful all the time, but

36:41

it's really impressive. Like people who

36:43

have figured out how to do that

36:46

are extraordinary to be around.

36:48

And I think it is the thing that defines

36:51

their greatness, right, It's their ability

36:53

to step into whatever

36:55

it is, the energy or the

36:58

life force or their own sort

37:00

of potential, and

37:02

it just radiates off them. I just

37:05

started her book What I Know for Sure, so I'm

37:07

excited to get into it because I am

37:09

like halfway through her book, Uh, what Happened

37:11

to You with Dr Perry Um.

37:13

So I feel like I'm just infusing

37:15

my brain with Oprah right now. So I feel like I'm in a great

37:18

place. So totally. I've read that.

37:20

I've read What I Know for Sure. It's extraordinary and it's

37:22

like she talks about this concept

37:24

a lot in her book, and you're sort of like

37:27

describes very clearly what it is

37:29

she's doing, and it's like, how girl, how

37:33

can I just say the environment that you've

37:35

created for this

37:37

production company has been so refreshing I

37:40

even though it's just been online, I have

37:42

felt more inspired, more

37:45

creative, and more like I want to

37:47

make an impact than I have in school in the past year and a

37:49

half. Oh, thank you so

37:51

much. I think it's so important

37:53

that there's we're talking about how much

37:56

our culture effects society, because

37:58

it truly does. From your girl Up series,

38:00

like you're truly highlighting the good, the bad,

38:02

and the ugly, which is I think what we need help people

38:04

feel us alone, Like that's if

38:08

nothing else, just tell the truth

38:11

straight up. Let's be real, you know, if

38:14

you can give someone nothing else, give

38:17

them the truth, give them honesty. It's

38:19

just it's so basic,

38:22

and yet it is so undervalued and enterprised

38:25

in our community and in the world

38:27

and in our society. Um.

38:30

And it's just that you cannot be free without

38:32

the truth. Are you feeling creatively fulfilled

38:34

right now? I am? I

38:36

think I UM,

38:39

I think that I am taking

38:41

a very um

38:43

what's the word broad interpretation

38:47

of creative creativity?

38:49

And I try and don't limit yourself,

38:51

you know what I mean? I agree, um,

38:54

And so I am trying to

38:56

live a creative life. And I don't mean that sort

38:58

of in an art his stick practice sense,

39:01

although I do have a writing practice, and I

39:03

obviously make a film and TV. But

39:05

it's also like I went

39:07

on and walk on the beach this morning. I go surfing

39:10

a lot, I go on hikes. I try. And I

39:12

was walking down the street and saw I

39:15

was watching the sunset last night, and like a man came

39:17

by and gave me a big thumbs up. You

39:19

know, I saw this wild looking man in the

39:21

captain's hat. That made me just chuckle.

39:24

Like all these wonderful things that happen if

39:27

you're open to them, not even

39:29

just synchronicities, but just humans

39:32

are hilarious. They're so funny,

39:34

and so much good

39:36

stuff is happening on your block right now.

39:38

You know, whatever

39:41

happened to the art of people watching? Honestly,

39:43

it's just I will go on campus and

39:45

I will just or sometimes if even if I'm at a party,

39:47

I'll just sit just to watch what I'm

39:50

like. It's just so interesting seeing other humans

39:52

interact together. Um

39:55

or like I like to camp. I'm a big camper,

39:57

and so see, I want to go camping. I've

39:59

never been before ever, I've never

40:01

from the city. You're such a city. I'm

40:04

such a city. It's so unfortunate. So

40:06

now I'm like, I need to go. I need to make

40:08

up for everything. And I wasn't able

40:10

to do a great spot. I mean, California

40:13

is such extraordinary camping. So I went on a

40:15

big road trip over the summer and did it

40:17

by myself. I had not I had not camped by myself

40:19

before and so I camped by myself for a

40:21

couple of weeks. A couple of weeks by

40:23

myself. What was that like? It was

40:25

awesome? It was so good. So I went all

40:27

around the Southwest in California

40:30

and Arizona, Utah, Nevada,

40:34

and so inspired, I went to

40:36

Paris by myself this summer. It

40:38

was really like for me, the summer was really

40:40

trying to see how much can we grow and how much

40:42

can we evolve? And so I've

40:44

just been trying to do more things by myself, whether it's

40:46

taking myself on dates or like doing anything like

40:48

that. And so like like that's like going

40:51

camping, Like that's like so impressive

40:53

to me that you can do that. That's like a goal I want to

40:55

hit one day. Well it took me thirty six years,

40:57

Like you're there, but yeah, but I'm here.

41:00

Um. And it was one of the most rewarding things

41:02

I've ever done for myself. Um.

41:05

And I'm a big believer in taking care of carry

41:07

like I'd pamper her as best.

41:10

So how do what is self care?

41:12

For you? Self care is entirely

41:15

and fulsomely and enthusiastically

41:17

rejecting the idea of being busy.

41:20

I am not busy. I don't ever try to

41:22

be busy. I have no aspirations to be busy.

41:24

I want to move as slowly

41:26

as humanly possible. I

41:28

mean, like ambling

41:31

just taken my sweet time.

41:35

UM. I think it

41:37

is knowing what at that

41:39

moment in time. My five needs

41:42

for happiness always are. I'm always kind of checking

41:44

in on that list. So I

41:46

need to be in nature, I need to have community,

41:48

I need to write, UM,

41:51

I need to

41:53

be of service, and

41:56

UM, I need love. Right, and

41:58

so if I meeting each

42:00

of those things, and those also

42:02

have a bright a broad term, but

42:06

if I'm meeting those things on each given

42:08

day, I'm going to have a spectacular day,

42:10

right if I like, those are the things that I am prioritizing.

42:13

UM. Self care is also for me about

42:16

embracing mediocrity. Like there's

42:18

there's really like three things I need

42:20

to be good at. Need to be a good family member,

42:23

I need to be a good friend, and I need to keep

42:25

a roof over my head. And

42:27

outside of those three, and I need to be good to myself.

42:30

So four things that I need to be really good at, I

42:32

don't have to be good at anything else. Really,

42:34

and so I take all the pressure off myself

42:37

to be good at anything else. I love making

42:39

good film and TV. I love being

42:42

a good writer. I love being

42:44

good surfer. I love being good at tennis. If I'm

42:46

not good at any of those things, it doesn't actually

42:48

matter. When I'm on my deathbed.

42:52

I'm not gonna be like man, you

42:56

know that recreational game. I

42:58

played doubles two thousand, you

43:01

know two care Um

43:04

I'll be I'll die happy if

43:06

I was good to my sister and good to my nephews,

43:08

and good to my parents, and good to my friends, and

43:10

good to my partners, and good to you

43:12

know, um, the world

43:15

and my community. And that's enough

43:17

for me. Um. And I lived the life that

43:19

I really actually wanted to live. And

43:22

you're doing it for you, yeah, you

43:24

know, um. And so so, embracing

43:26

mediocrity is a way that I take care of mine. Like I'm

43:28

so bad at tennis, it's amazing.

43:31

Oh. I joined a tap class

43:33

this semester. I don't dance. I don't

43:35

dance. Um that.

43:38

And here's the thing I thought, like, Okay, it's

43:40

probably a beginner class. No, there's

43:42

no beginner class. It's with dance majors

43:44

who have tapped since they were two, and I'm

43:46

like, okay, at least it's doing something

43:49

uncomfortable. Yeah, it pushes

43:51

me out there. Um, and it's an

43:53

experience totally. That's amazing.

43:56

Are you doing any hobbies or wanting to pursue anything

43:59

that you're like, oh, I want to into that. Yeah, so I

44:01

tango dance. Tango

44:04

Tango is amazing. Tango is so sexy, Like

44:07

it's not salsice. You're not like moving all this, You're

44:10

not moving around super fast. Maybe

44:13

that should be my next dance I pick. It's like it's

44:17

super old, like it's like there, it's

44:19

like it's pretty old too. Yeah, but it's it's rad.

44:22

I don't mean even as a practice, I just mean like as

44:24

a community, like really, yeah,

44:26

that's so much fun, but it's really great. It just

44:28

make you feel good about yourself to the youngest

44:31

one there totally. Um.

44:33

So like tango, tennis, I play tennis,

44:36

one ye surfing.

44:40

I'm a good gardener yeah,

44:44

um, like flowers, fruits and vegetables,

44:47

all sorts of stuff. I think gardening is extraordinarily

44:49

important for everyone, Like everyone should

44:52

be required to grow something so

44:54

calming, not even that it's just

44:56

like, yes, it is so calming, and it

44:59

is is a practice of delayed

45:02

gratification. In

45:04

a world in which you could have a new

45:06

boyfriend every hour of the day,

45:08

and a world in which you can order something

45:11

online and reasonably expect that it

45:13

be within hours,

45:16

like you should have to wait for things.

45:18

Waiting for things is important for human

45:20

brains, and it is a good

45:23

thing. And so having like

45:25

waiting for your flower to bloom, waiting

45:27

for your flower to grow is

45:29

a spectacular practice. That's

45:32

how I kind of feel with oil painting because it takes

45:34

so long to dry yet like

45:37

okay, you know, I don't know what I'm

45:39

it's going to be, but we're doing it for love, doing

45:42

it exactly.

45:44

You know. It's like we're

45:46

constantly rushing, and it's we're missing

45:49

a lot of things when we rush. I think

45:51

about how many sunsets and sunrises

45:53

like there too, Like we miss a day that I'm just like

45:55

I don't even see them. You're

45:57

just there and they're so beautiful of

46:00

a block from the water, and so

46:02

sunset is always so spectacular,

46:04

and it's like the days that I miss it,

46:06

I better have a really good excuse if I was

46:08

just in my house like looking like

46:13

the self loathing on

46:15

Twitter exactly. It's just like a horrific,

46:18

absolutely ridiculous. Um. I

46:21

try and go and see it every day that I'm home at that hour.

46:24

So what's next for you? What's next for Culture

46:26

House? What's keeping you fulfilled? What's in

46:28

the works that's making you excited about? You

46:30

know? To your point around and it really

46:33

means so much for to hear it

46:35

means so much to me to hear that your experience

46:37

at Culture House has been what

46:40

we built the company for. I

46:42

mean, if it doesn't feel like making

46:45

art with your friends, why are we doing

46:47

it? Um, have been so

46:49

much. Oh I love that. I

46:51

love that. Yeah, you know.

46:54

It's it's like, if I want to be stressed

46:56

out and and make life or death

46:58

decisions at work, I'd be a surgeon or I'd go back

47:00

to the White House. I'm not.

47:02

I'm making television and film and it should

47:04

feel like it, right like we do

47:07

do lay Hill on my podcast, and he told me something

47:09

that it's really helped. He goes at the end of the

47:11

day, we're just playing pretend it can be a

47:13

series, says it is. It can be as deep.

47:15

At the end of the day, we're just playing pretend.

47:17

I'm like, you know what, I know, that's so true

47:20

totally, and losing sight of that is so

47:22

WOWD. So when I see people like tie themselves

47:24

and nods, I'm

47:26

sort of just like, you should have

47:29

to go work in an e er for a couple of days and

47:31

then come back. I didn't appreciate

47:33

where you are. I was like, this is getting a little

47:35

out of control. Um but and

47:37

again, and then this really actually goes back to what I

47:40

was saying about how people can

47:42

start their journey into activism,

47:44

like, if it doesn't feel good

47:48

in the smallest possible circle, if

47:51

working at culture House or working with culture

47:53

House doesn't feel good, I

47:55

don't care what the show is. I

47:57

don't care. I don't care if the show

47:59

is good. It's about the environment that you create, exactly,

48:02

and if it didn't feel good, to make it like the ends

48:04

does not justify the means for me in

48:07

basically anything like it

48:09

would take a lot to convince me of of a situation

48:11

where the ends to justify the means, and

48:13

it certainly won't. Just it's

48:16

certainly un acceptable

48:18

in making TV like there's just there's

48:21

no um and so you

48:24

know, I think we take a lot of care

48:27

and we take a lot of pride and the fact that

48:29

we've built the company on our terms

48:31

and the way that we want, with the values that we have,

48:34

and hopefully that shows up on screen.

48:36

We also want to be really good at it. I mean, he wants to

48:38

be like mediocre at their jobs. Like

48:40

my name is going to be on it. No one watches me play

48:43

tennis. So it's just it's

48:45

already so good that I'm like, that's

48:47

not even like a doubt in my mind. I just know

48:49

it's just going to be. And so I think

48:51

for me, I'm just culture

48:54

House is really exciting because we're just talking about cool

48:56

stuff that all has a pulse, that all has a purpose,

48:58

you know, and it's really interesting.

49:01

One of the criteria for what

49:04

projects we take on or what projects

49:06

we decide to put forward, it's like,

49:08

do I want to talk about this for three years? Is

49:10

this interesting enough to really want

49:12

to talk about it for three years? And is

49:15

the team going to be people I want to work

49:17

with for two years or for three years

49:19

and talk to almost every day for that long

49:22

time. I think something I've really learned

49:24

is how much development is like a baby and you really

49:26

have to nurture it and really have to flush

49:29

it out so much. I feel like I've just gotten

49:31

so much from it. I'm so glad

49:33

to have worked for be a part of it any

49:36

way, because I do think you guys are making

49:38

some incredible stuff that can actually

49:40

really affect the trajectory of the way we

49:42

view our society. Thanks man, that's

49:44

so nice. Of course, we

49:48

have to take one more quick break, but when we come

49:50

back, I'm going to talk about where you get your confidence

49:52

from, both personally and professionally

49:55

and much more. We'll be right back

50:00

and we're

50:03

back what advice do for confidence?

50:06

Because I would love to exude your confidence

50:09

that I've decided, Um,

50:13

so you know, we pick up personality traits. I just

50:15

that's something I want to listen. Put it on like

50:17

a sweater girl, and live your life. I

50:21

mean, but it actually is a choice. I actually

50:23

really remember I grew up and it

50:26

was sort of was very much outside of the booty

50:28

norms of where I grew up. But I

50:30

remember and like feeling very

50:32

unattractive and feeling very ugly, and

50:35

I remember when I was thirteen just

50:37

like having one of those sort of divine inspiration

50:39

moments where it's like, I'm actually not going to

50:41

believe that about myself. I'm beautiful,

50:44

and I'm that's what I'm going to believe. I

50:46

don't know where that came from, but it just

50:48

sort of had one of those moments, and I've tried.

50:50

I've held on, like the death

50:53

grip to that since I was a kid. But

50:55

I think a few things. I think confidence

50:58

is not only external of worst, but it's internal.

51:01

And I think the internal pieces is

51:03

the most important because you are going to look different.

51:05

You are. There's and everyone has their own perception

51:07

of what beauty is. Everyone's

51:09

hot, Like literally I could find

51:12

something hot about anyone

51:15

absolutely if you look long enough, if you're

51:17

open enough, you can absolutely

51:19

I mean just smoke shows everywhere.

51:24

Um and so

51:27

so I think the more you appreciate other people's

51:29

beauty, the more you'll appreciate your own. The

51:31

more you take yourself out of

51:33

any kind of competition with

51:35

anyone, the more the happier

51:37

you will be. UM. And then on the internal

51:40

piece, I think for me it's

51:42

also like the world is bullshit, Like

51:44

no one has any idea what the funk is going on. I

51:47

don't know what the hell is going on. You don't

51:49

know, like, no one knows what that trying,

51:52

you know, And so why not you? Like,

51:55

you're the one? Why not you? You're here,

51:58

That's what my dad says. He goes, it could be any one, why

52:00

not you? Exactly, You're

52:02

you're the one doing it. I actually got into a little

52:04

bit of an argument with a friend. Um.

52:07

He and I were walking around some art galleries

52:10

and he couldn't really

52:12

draw the distinction between something

52:16

whether or not he liked something, whether

52:18

or not a piece of art was his style, versus

52:21

whether or not it should have been made. And

52:24

I was like, Okay, I don't particularly

52:26

aesthetically care for this painting, but you

52:28

look at the technique, you look at how you made

52:31

like the fact that they made it, you know,

52:34

is extraordinary. And he's like, I mean I

52:36

could have made that. I was like, but you didn't. You

52:39

didn't. That is the thing that actually

52:41

makes the difference. You can have the best ideas in

52:43

the world. If you don't do it, it doesn't

52:45

matter. People have people. It's I'll

52:48

talk no action exactly until you do

52:50

it. And so the more you just do ship.

52:52

That's the way you learned. The more you build

52:54

confidence and the more you're like, I'm the

52:56

dude, it's me, Why not me? Right?

52:59

Because you back your self. We all have to

53:01

bet on ourselves at some point, and so

53:03

I think we're really trained to bet on other

53:05

people like oh, well she's so beautiful, or oh

53:07

she's so tall, or oh she

53:10

has this or that, but like, bet on yourself.

53:13

You can't live anyone else's life. You can only

53:15

live yours. And so what

53:17

are you How are you going to invest in yourself? How are

53:19

you going to do the thing? Get over being embarrassed?

53:22

Life is deeply embarrassing. It's just

53:24

a humil if you're doing it right, it is a humiliating

53:27

experience, you know, But

53:30

that's what it's, you know, it's just part of the deal.

53:32

Like, get over it, Just keep moving, keep trying.

53:34

Got to embrace it. Be comfortable with the uncomfortable.

53:37

That's what I've been really trying to embrace

53:39

this cemeter. And I think

53:41

that is a practice. And

53:44

I think the more you practice that,

53:46

the more confident you get.

53:48

And I think I am absolutely

53:50

willing to be the best. I'm also absolutely

53:53

willing to be the worst. I am willing

53:55

to humiliate myself. I'm willing to start

53:57

over. I'm willing to be everything

54:00

in between. And I think that willingness

54:03

is what you pick up on when you've when

54:06

you sense confidence in me,

54:08

I'll be okay, I'll figured out because

54:11

even if you fall, you're going to get back up and exactly

54:14

like, it'll be fine. It's just it's

54:17

the ingraining part is what I need to work on.

54:19

Yeah, but I have a head start on you. I

54:21

don't know how old. How old are oh

54:24

girl, Yeah, I've got sixty. I've got like the

54:26

last human being on you all

54:29

teenager? Yeah, sixteen

54:31

years on you. You know, is

54:33

there are there any other future people

54:35

you'd like to work with that you want to manifest

54:37

out into existence? No,

54:40

um, there are, certainly. I

54:43

do my best not to project

54:47

onto people I don't know, so

54:49

my perception of what they are could

54:52

be wildly inaccurate. So I could be like,

54:54

oh, I want to manifest working with this

54:56

person or that person, and then that person is

54:59

garb right, and they're terrible

55:01

to work experience right, But

55:04

they could be terrible to work with, or they could be

55:07

um fine but not

55:09

spectacular. And then you're let down. So I

55:11

think it's hard to and I think we do enough as

55:13

a society of projecting onto people

55:16

in UM

55:18

that live and live in the public

55:20

in a certain way, or that have public

55:23

lives in a certain way, in a way that I think is actually

55:25

kind of unhealthy, absolutely, yeah,

55:27

deeply unhealthy. And so I try not

55:29

to do that too much. The people

55:31

who I'm supposed to be working with, I'll

55:34

work with, you know, and we'll meet

55:36

and it'll have purpose

55:39

or won't or whatever. But yeah,

55:41

I try not to um, try

55:43

not to look at people and be

55:45

like, oh and invest in them in that

55:47

way because I don't know, I don't actually know them. Hey,

55:49

at least you can vowed for Oprah. At least you can. That's

55:52

a big one. Yeah. Yeah, no, I've done pretty

55:55

well. Like what is happening

55:57

right now? Who let

56:00

me in this room? This makes absolutely no sense?

56:02

But let's do it. Let's do it, you know, why

56:05

not? Why not? It's so funny. My

56:07

so, my older sister, the brilliant,

56:09

genius creative artist. Um,

56:12

she was the production designer

56:14

for Hair Hair Tales, Oh my goodness,

56:16

and it was her and she also is just like

56:18

she's she's even five years older than me, so if

56:20

you can imagine my confidence plus five

56:22

years. So she

56:25

we had this one particularly

56:28

complicated and it was her first production design

56:31

job, and she has one really

56:33

complicated shoot, and she came up to me. It was like,

56:35

listen, so we're at the end

56:37

of the road of my confidence.

56:40

I have no idea what I'm doing. We're gonna need some help in here.

56:43

We are at the end of the road of my confidence.

56:47

Carrying meads to the finish

56:49

line, She's like, Nope, not gonna make it this time.

56:51

Um, We're gonna need a ringer, gonna need some

56:53

help, gonna need an actual expert, you

56:57

know what. The fact that she was able to vocalize

56:59

it be like it was exactly

57:01

before. It's too late, that that

57:05

matters. Timing is everything. It

57:08

all worked out exactly, Sody cracked

57:10

me up. I was just like, dude, the twigs are out

57:13

here just making ship

57:15

up left and right. It's amazing. I

57:17

love how once you cursed, I then just

57:19

went so aggressively and I didn't

57:21

know if I could just

57:25

um, but yeah, so

57:28

you know, I don't know why I told that story

57:30

other than that it's funny and my sister is amazing.

57:32

I think it's super interesting. I'm also super interested in

57:34

production design as of recent because it's

57:37

it just builds the aesthetic. Like I

57:39

learned a bunch of other ship in college. Like I didn't learn

57:41

any of this stuff. I didn't go to film school. I didn't

57:43

like take I don't think I took a single. What

57:45

was your major? Um,

57:47

I triple majored. I'm not coming

57:50

to nerd in

57:52

political science, history and

57:55

communications, any minor. No,

57:58

I don't think you need a minor. Yeah. I was gonna

58:00

minor and communications, but then I ended

58:02

up taking extra classes and

58:04

so it became a major. Hey

58:07

it works, you know, Um. But I

58:09

actually have a very bad self discipline

58:12

really Yeah. So when I went to college,

58:14

I was like, oh, I only have to be here for like four hours

58:16

a week. Um.

58:20

And so I had terrible grades

58:23

my first quarters. I was on o

58:25

s U used to be on quarters. Absolutely

58:28

terrible grades. And so then I went and talked

58:30

to the guyn's counselor or whatever they're

58:32

called in college and convinced

58:35

them to let me like triple my course

58:37

load so that I would be in class from nine

58:39

am until three pm

58:41

every Monday through Thursday, because

58:43

I was like, if you let me step off campus,

58:46

I am not coming back. The fact that you

58:48

know that yourself. So she's

58:51

just not here anymore to

58:53

be seen stumbling home at two

58:55

o'clock in the morning like babies out.

58:58

So I actually needed, like I need

59:00

the structure, overwhelmed. I needed to be structured.

59:03

Um to this day,

59:05

I like still date people who are very

59:07

uptight and structured and discipline because I

59:09

just need it, Like I need

59:11

structure because leave me alone, I'm just like

59:14

what, No, I feel like I'll need

59:16

a day an extrovert because I can't be pulling

59:18

someone else out where ourselves out

59:20

of it right right totally?

59:23

Um. So yeah, that's like the

59:25

one through line of all the people I've ever

59:27

dated has been that they're like actual,

59:30

you know, hardcore, like you get up

59:32

at eight and then we do this because

59:35

otherwise or

59:38

is it more of like an intellectual thing? I

59:41

mean my type would be I mean smart and funny,

59:45

um, generous and

59:47

kind. I cannot tolerate

59:49

people who are not um.

59:52

I have absolutely zero tolerance

59:54

for people who are unkind um and

59:56

even just courteous, right like people who don't say

59:58

thank you, or open doors for people to hind them, or

1:00:00

take up two seats on the bus, and she's like, what's the

1:00:02

matter with you? You share? You

1:00:05

share this world with human

1:00:08

transportation? Guy? Yeah, um

1:00:11

uh. And then I really am drawn to

1:00:13

people who were very disciplined and very structured,

1:00:16

and um that helps

1:00:18

me. I love I love a routine,

1:00:21

but I've never successfully kept one independently.

1:00:25

I love the idea of one. I love the idea

1:00:27

of one, but like who knows when she's waking

1:00:30

up? Who knows what order I'm going to do anything?

1:00:32

And like generally I get everything done, but

1:00:34

like I brush my teeth at the three pm yesterday,

1:00:36

you know what, at least you're getting it done exactly.

1:00:39

And that's as long as you're doing is. And

1:00:41

then I went to brush my teeth this morning and my toothbrush

1:00:44

was downstairs at the kitchen stink, like just like

1:00:46

childish. Like I'll walk into my house sometimes

1:00:49

and just be like, who did this? And I

1:00:51

live alone? So I did it.

1:00:54

Well. Thank you so much for taking the time. This

1:00:57

was just made my day and I feel

1:00:59

very fired. Thank you so

1:01:01

much. You asked much spectacular

1:01:03

questions and I love your podcast I'm really

1:01:06

honored that you even asked me to recording.

1:01:08

I'm honored here on this season, season

1:01:11

four. If it's got it, you've got to deliver. So

1:01:13

good for you. I appreciate you so much,

1:01:15

so happy for you.