0:01

Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to

0:03

the Less Bureau Podcast. I'm so excited

0:06

because my dear friend Navia Robinson

0:08

is here. Guys, I'm so excited

0:11

to be here, my dear friend Sammy

0:13

here obviously because it's your podcast. Really,

0:17

this has been so long overdue. Yes, it totally

0:20

has. We've been talking about this for ages, and I'm

0:22

so glad to finally be here. I was thinking

0:24

about it and I met you in that

0:27

sounds correct, And at that time

0:29

I had just come back from the UK and

0:31

I was filming a show and I am pretty

0:34

certain I was speaking to you. And what was a

0:36

British? Were British? I was convince

0:38

she was British. Guys. We were all like, I

0:40

was my first big shoe and I worked

0:42

with three Dio Disney and it was at the Sacks

0:44

fifth Avenue, like rand opening,

0:47

and I met Navia because we were we

0:49

were the only kids there, yes, that were like

0:51

interviewing, and then she was like British and

0:54

my mom was there and my brother is there, and I remember us leaping

0:56

be like what was her accent? Is

0:59

she British? So funny to me. I remember

1:01

quite a few things from that night. Well, first of

1:03

all, I want to say, I don't understand why I was talking in a British

1:05

accent because I played an American character on

1:08

that show. But I was also at

1:10

a very impressionable age, and so I guess I just

1:12

soaked up that accent. I probably liked

1:14

it a lot, because you know, I was like loving it. Doesn't love

1:17

a British accent, beautiful accent.

1:19

And I'm sure my castmates were like this, go

1:21

on, Um, I was there for three

1:24

months, okay, but an impressionable age,

1:26

Yes, exactly, thank you so

1:28

much. I'm helping you, trying to help me. Yeah. We

1:31

also saw we bonded over seeing Neil

1:33

Patrick. We were like, we're

1:35

freaking out because yes,

1:38

I just remember bonding over. I mean already.

1:40

It was quite a strange circumstance because it's

1:42

a very novel experience. We were at Sax Fifth

1:44

Avenue working there for like

1:47

the window unveiling. It was special and we were still

1:49

they shut it down the store

1:51

that day, and we were so young

1:53

and it was so overwhelming and surrounded by adults too.

1:56

Of course, I was so scared

1:58

because here you were, you know, you're

2:01

you're an actress. You've been on TV. I this

2:03

was coming up on my since

2:05

my first real year like working with them,

2:08

and I hadn't done anything like that before.

2:10

You must have made quite the impression. This

2:12

is you're one, you're two.

2:15

If this was your year one,

2:17

yeah, wow, and you're already

2:19

that's incredible. I was just like, I

2:23

still have stage fright in a way, and particularly

2:25

at that age. I think when I started, I

2:27

was like five or six years old, so I had

2:29

no fears and no insecurities. Yeah, you don't think about

2:32

it. And then at eleven and then

2:34

probably until like fifteen, I was just

2:37

a mess. Do you still have stage

2:40

right when you act? Yeah, a little bit. I'm

2:42

getting rid of it because I think you literally

2:44

have to in order to you know, be vulnerable

2:46

or like unfold in front of the camera.

2:49

You have to like try to get rid of

2:51

that anxiety. But as you get older and you develop

2:53

more in securities and like whatever in

2:55

your teenage years, it's it gets harder.

2:57

I think being filmed during your teenagers

3:00

while you're going through puberty is an experience

3:02

that so few know. But

3:05

the few people that I know, such as yourself, have gone

3:07

through it. It seems like it's been a whirlwind.

3:10

You're so good at this. I

3:14

need to answer the question, but I can't help. But um, well,

3:18

yes, it's so weird, and maybe

3:20

not want to watch the show I was a part of for

3:22

that period of adolescence. But I think now

3:24

literally every single person is going through it,

3:27

maybe in a you know, just in a different way.

3:29

We all have social media now, and kids have Snapchat

3:31

and they'll broadcast that to their friends, and

3:33

maybe it's inescapable for them too. So I feel

3:35

for everyone. I think we're all going this really.

3:38

I mean, in today's times, it's just we're so

3:40

exposed. What was it like

3:42

growing up having so many eyes on

3:44

you and the pressures of social

3:46

media? With that, I know you're barely on social media.

3:48

If we love, we stand,

3:54

but you know what, mental health is a priority

3:56

and I get that. So what was that like? Because I remember,

3:58

for a minute, they're in like and you were

4:00

really active and you were

4:02

I remember I ran into her. I remember I ran

4:04

into Navia at Beauty Content was before we became

4:06

like friends, and I remember she was

4:09

just I was seeing her just always

4:12

posting and just on the ground. I was like, how does

4:14

this girl? Um?

4:16

I love you. I feel like that was a different person.

4:18

It's hard to even I mean, that's what

4:21

you are at thirteen

4:23

or whatever. You're just kind of like a

4:25

sponge soaking up your environment, what's arounding,

4:28

what other people are doing. And so that really

4:30

doesn't feel like me as much as it feels like a

4:32

character that was like an amalgamation of the people

4:35

around me. So that's kind of my answer

4:37

on that. I don't know how I was doing, and I don't. I just don't think

4:39

I had the self awareness at the time to like really

4:41

be introspective. You know, maybe at that time

4:43

I should have been like, you know, you're learning.

4:46

Yeah, you've always been

4:48

so mature and I am always

4:50

so just in awe of how like

4:53

we are very similar in that where I think we're a lot older than

4:55

our age and have always been. And

4:57

I think it's just it's a struggle for people, especially

5:00

making friends with people are age. I think that's one of

5:02

the reasons why we connected, because

5:04

it's hard to it's hard to find

5:06

people that have the same drive or

5:09

don't want to focus on the same

5:11

things like social media. I mean, yeah, and

5:14

gosh, that's a good point. I think that is why we connected,

5:16

and you've always been so good at managing social

5:18

media and being I know it's really

5:20

I mean, from my perspective at least like being on it

5:22

um for an appropriate amount of time. But also

5:24

I don't know, it just seems like you're well balanced and

5:27

you just traveled to Europe. Can I

5:29

say that you just traveled

5:31

to Europe by yourself? I mean that's like a testament

5:34

to who you are, not just

5:36

drive, but your own you know, esteem and confidence

5:38

within yourself. And I'm really inspired by it. Thank

5:41

you so much? Did you enjoy yourself? So it

5:43

was up and down. Solo

5:45

travel is not easy, but I wanted to prove

5:47

to myself that I could do it because I was just we're

5:49

just overcoming anxiety. That's just the goal,

5:52

you know. I've been thinking of my life is

5:54

like three months increments and I'm

5:56

like, Okay, who am I going to be in the next three months? And

5:58

how can I grow to that person? That's

6:00

good. That makes me anxious thinking

6:02

about it, But that's good. But I mean does that help

6:04

you? That helps manager? And it helps manage

6:07

my anxiety because if I think of everything over

6:09

a year, Oh, but

6:11

then when I think of little increments,

6:14

and for me, so travel with something

6:16

I've really wanted to do, but more so I

6:18

saw someone some friends

6:20

do it, and I was really inspired by them, and

6:23

I just was prepared. I well

6:25

researched my area before I went. But I spent

6:27

like six days in Paris by myself. Wow, oh,

6:30

I have so many questions. What are your

6:32

questions? I just, um, did

6:35

you meet anybody while you were there? No?

6:37

I was by myself. Did you

6:39

you said it was up and down? What was that? What

6:41

did that tradectory look like? First day? You were up and then

6:43

maybe? So here's my here's okay.

6:46

So basically I the flight was fine. I

6:48

get to Paris. My phone isn't working, and

6:51

I'm like, oh it

6:54

was. And for those who don't know me,

6:56

I'm an anxious person and this was just

6:58

testing my anxiety. So I my

7:01

phone wasn't working, I couldn't text. I

7:04

logged into the WiFi of airport and

7:06

then finally allowed me to log on, but

7:08

I still couldn't reach. I got a car

7:11

before because I knew I wouldn't be able to read the airports

7:13

because it was all in French, right, So

7:17

I was very cautious of that, and

7:19

then so I couldn't find my driver. I

7:22

eventually found him, smart by the way

7:24

he didn't. It was It was weird because I was

7:26

told that my driver that I

7:29

that I got um had a flat

7:31

tire, and so this driver was going to bring me that driver.

7:33

But this driver didn't do that, and so

7:36

in my mind, I'm like, oh, my goodness, I'm just

7:38

in a car with this person. No

7:40

I am in France. If you're me, I'm

7:42

thinking that this is I'm thinking I'm being Yeah,

7:45

i think I'm being kidnapped. I'm

7:47

thinking all the worst things, like phone isn't

7:49

working, it's a hundred and five

7:52

degrees when I land, and

7:54

that it was during like the heat wave. So

7:56

did it get better better from there? Not

7:58

much better from there, I think. So. I

8:00

have always been very aware of like

8:03

the mind to body connection and

8:05

how like your mental

8:08

health, your anxiety, how it can manifest in

8:10

your bodies physically. But it

8:12

was so aggressive, it was hard to

8:14

take control, and because no one else was there, no one can

8:16

help me snap out of my own mind. So

8:19

it was a challenge in that respect, but

8:22

I pushed through it

8:23

and it was really good. I made my

8:25

own perfume in Paris.

8:28

I mean, there's no other place in which you should make right

8:31

now, but you can't spell it war off. Yeah,

8:34

perfumes don't wear on me at all.

8:37

Yeah, exactly, that's what I mean. So fast, so

8:39

fast, I don't know. Yeah, I put someone

8:41

like two minutes ago. I went to the Liful Tower.

8:44

I went. Everything there was

8:46

like all my meals. It sounds

8:48

very romantic. It was very romantic, but so

8:50

inexpensive. Well, I'm going, you're gonna

8:53

I want to go to Europe. Wanted we should go.

8:56

We should get a group who

8:58

Oh, I literally have a friend's in Paris right now. I'm not

9:00

going to say their name because they like to be like, you know,

9:02

down down, and

9:05

that would be so fun. So you're

9:07

moving to Atlanta for six months next week,

9:09

Sammy, I am so happy

9:12

to see you. It really is, like obviously,

9:14

it's a pleasure to see your friend

9:16

who you love and trust and get tough great conversations

9:18

with. So I I am busy, but I

9:21

think I'm kind of like in for opinion

9:23

for a pound. If I'm busy, I don't mind being even busier

9:25

if the new ends. Absolutely,

9:28

I know, because if you're already in it, you're like, yeah,

9:30

also, you're not like a thing on the to do list.

9:33

I'm happy to see you. I'm feeling

9:35

a lot of things about I'm from Atlanta,

9:37

so it's going to be going back. I'm going back, and

9:39

I really I think in the past year, I found my place

9:42

in l A and found my friends and kind of

9:45

falling in love with it in a way I didn't think I would.

9:47

I was like, l A, you know that's so, you

9:50

know, we became we probably

9:52

became friends this time last year, yeah,

9:55

August, yeah, or July,

9:59

probably July. We met in um

10:02

catch up lunch, and I feel like knowing each other for years, and

10:04

we actually became friends. We talked about shows,

10:06

yeah exactly. We Yeah, we've been acquaintances,

10:10

like really warm acquaintances, acquaint acquaintances,

10:13

acquaintances, and then we actually

10:15

became friends. Like a year ago, we

10:17

were in such a different place. We were, Yeah

10:20

you were in college. Well

10:23

yeah, yeah, in college, in

10:26

college going to school. But

10:29

honestly, something that's really genuinely

10:32

like motivates me and inspires me. It is

10:34

like how much you're still motivated

10:36

by school and determined like

10:39

it pushes me to be like, you got this, that's

10:41

really sweet. First of all, your

10:44

commitment to both maintaining your career and

10:46

also, you know, pursuing an academic career has

10:48

really been inspiring to me.

10:51

Um, but also just the fact that you

10:54

are very thoughtful about your

10:56

future. So whatever that means, it might not

10:58

mean completely you know what. Ever, it means

11:00

you're just super thoughtful about it. And I think

11:02

I really want to adapt that to my life. So I

11:05

am currently on the route, you know,

11:07

attending a four year but at the same time, I'm

11:09

like, I like your totally.

11:12

I like your fluidity that you've embraced in your life

11:15

and managing it, and I think I want to apply

11:17

that to my It's because I

11:20

I've been learning there is a gray area, and

11:22

I've been and I struggle with that.

11:25

I'm like the other you know,

11:27

there's this whole gray area. So I'm just

11:29

taking it semester by semester and

11:31

seeing what life happens. Because

11:34

also, like, school is always there

11:36

and I know that, and I'm learning a lot while there.

11:38

But on the other hand, if an opportunity

11:41

would present itself, it's always it's

11:43

always there as a backup. Totally. I think that's a

11:45

perfect way to put it. I mean, you have to live

11:47

your life, and life is unpredictable,

11:50

and to think that we can plan it outstep

11:52

by stuff, it's just unreasonable. I am guilty of

11:54

it, but I'm trying to step How

11:57

does your go ahead? Sorry, no, it's

11:59

just it's hard. How does your

12:02

anxiety manifest? Oh? My, so

12:04

many different ways? Socially, academically,

12:07

Okay, what

12:10

else is there? Generally? Um

12:14

like, generally it's alwa, It's

12:16

just it's always there in some type of way.

12:18

I also have O c D, which makes it

12:20

it's just like they feed off each other and

12:23

it's just not it's not it. I've

12:25

just been coming to terms with the fact that I may

12:27

be an anxious person. I really

12:30

deny. I mean, this is not diagnosed,

12:32

and I don't know for sure if I am. But

12:35

I think I'm realizing that anxiety

12:38

has a lot of different definitions or off

12:41

in a lot of different ways, and I

12:43

think I'm I'm super guarded

12:45

and sometimes and I think maybe that's

12:47

just a form of being anxious or like, definitely

12:50

have a lot of career academic anxiety.

12:53

I find myself very much living in the future

12:55

or living in daydreams to try to like cope

12:58

with my fear about the present. Oh same,

13:01

is that? What that is? Do you do the same thing? I do

13:04

that too. It's it's really hard, especially

13:06

I think the times that we've lived in

13:08

for the past two and a half years, we've

13:10

been daydreaming for like the next thing to get

13:12

out of where we're at. And I feel like

13:14

we're finally started at this point where it's like we

13:16

should be also be enjoying where we are, but

13:19

it's so difficult. Is that how

13:21

your anxiety manifest would you say? I think

13:23

so? I think I'm

13:25

yeah, I think I'm also just super sensitive

13:29

to like over stimulation, which is kind of

13:31

inevitable right now. Like you are

13:33

a young person who's grown up in

13:36

the age of the Internet and social media, you

13:38

have so much coming at you all the time,

13:41

even if you try to mitigate it, like I'm

13:43

barely on Instagram, but still

13:45

like if I you know, being an

13:48

actor, particularly entertainment

13:50

should be recreational, but it's also it's

13:53

all I know exactly. It's studying.

13:55

When you listen to a podcast, it's it's studying. No, I

13:57

love podcast. My dad sorry, study,

14:00

and I'm like, no, I'm just listening. Try.

14:03

It's hard, but it's hard, and it's hard not to like

14:05

watch something or see a movie,

14:08

which I love doing. But at the same time, that's

14:10

my career. So I get anxiously like, gosh, why

14:13

am I not doing something like this? How can I do something

14:15

like this? I like that my brain just feels like it's

14:17

always on, and I think a lot of people experience

14:20

the same thing. So I don't know what to call it. Is it like,

14:22

is that anxiety or what is that? I

14:24

think it manifests in so many different ways. But

14:27

when you know how a sausage gets made, you

14:30

know the process, it's so

14:32

natural for that to be Like, I

14:35

wonder what they did about this totally. I

14:37

like the idea, though, like you

14:39

can't explain art down

14:41

to a science. It's not meant to be.

14:44

It's not it's it's not math, it's

14:46

not you know. It's like I think, I

14:49

I've been actually considering what I want to study.

14:52

I'm at a crossroads. I've always said I wanted

14:54

to like definitely

14:56

pursue something, you know, social science and sociology,

14:59

cultural loss of apology, yes, something like that. But

15:01

that I don't. I mean, I do really

15:03

love movies and I want to get behind

15:06

the scenes of it one day, And so should I be pursuing that.

15:08

I'm like, you can do both. Yeah, there

15:10

are some curriculums or some programs for sure.

15:13

Major double major major, minor.

15:16

Yeah, I guess that's probably the answer.

15:18

But at the same time, major and like film and

15:21

then minor in psychology. That's probably

15:23

the route that I'm going to go. I could could

15:26

you see that from that's pretty badass? Okay,

15:30

we have to take a quick break, but when we come back, I

15:32

want to talk about other aspects of the industry

15:34

might be interested in partaking in, and

15:37

some existential life questions. We'll

15:39

be right back and

15:46

we're back. I could

15:49

see you doing some producing and directing in the

15:51

future too, I think that is. I

15:53

mean, i'd like the idea of control.

15:56

Oh, same, I love the idea

15:58

of it too. It's so and

16:00

I've just been Yeah, I've been an actress,

16:03

just kind of reading the lines I've been given.

16:05

Um, I do more than that. I would probably should't

16:07

be that reductive, but in essence, I've just been

16:10

performing other people's dreams and writings

16:13

Since I was six, and I'm like, Okay,

16:15

I think maybe I want to I want

16:17

to do my own things. Yes, what

16:20

was that entail? Um? I

16:22

definitely like the idea of writing. I've always loved

16:24

writing. Did I not tell you to do

16:26

this? Like a year ago? Na, I believe

16:29

we had this exact conversation. I would be

16:31

like, yeah, you were really even really good

16:33

at like writing or doing something. I'm

16:35

sure you did because truthfully, and you're gonna

16:37

deny this, you're always a few steps ahead

16:39

of not just me, but just I feel like you're a very

16:42

much a big picture thinker and

16:44

maybe when some people aren't ready for it. I remember

16:47

having this conversation. I was like, I feel like we've had this conversation

16:49

before. Um, probably

16:52

definitely just coming around too late, and I'm definitely

16:54

coming around to it. I think it. I

16:56

had like an epiphany probably like winter of

16:58

last year, and I was like, oh, you know, I don't

17:01

have to wait. When we went to the team books

17:03

summit, Oh my gosh. Maybe around

17:05

that side. That

17:07

was fun. That was the day. It was a long

17:10

day. That was that was a super long day. But I think

17:12

you've had it changed. My god. We

17:14

were at We went to the Team Books summit together and

17:17

it was in December, and I chose to

17:20

wear a dress, a sun dress

17:22

I should wear, thank you, but very

17:24

not warm, um and true.

17:27

So we went across

17:29

the street at one point when there was like no speakers

17:32

or anything, and Urban Outfitters

17:34

was having a pretty good thing and

17:37

I was like, let me get some pants and sure,

17:40

and remember boots. I did get a pair

17:42

of boots and I love them, wear them. I

17:45

haven't the summer, but they

17:47

are in storage for my in my dorm room

17:50

and we're going to whip him out this year and

17:52

we're just gonna rock them good. Oh.

17:55

I can't wait to see them again. Those are I think one of my

17:57

favorite pair of boots I bought. It's not the best

17:59

when you want to posibly buy something and it ends

18:01

up being like a staple. That

18:03

was crazy. That was great, But that was a real friendship.

18:05

That was a real friendship moment right there. I

18:08

speaking of the team folks on of this is like shifting gears

18:10

a little bit. But how do you feel

18:13

about this generation and the pressure

18:16

of all of beings like civically or

18:18

um like politically engaged?

18:21

Because I trust me I mean, I've always

18:23

been that way, just instinctualists

18:25

talk with you about this. I love this. So

18:28

I feel like it's really hard to

18:30

be our age and I feel like

18:33

for me and I know it's different for everybody,

18:35

the way I feel less helpless is when

18:37

I do something. And for me, that's

18:40

also staying educated, that figuring

18:42

out how I can connect with elected officials.

18:44

That's how I can educate myself

18:47

more on just our

18:49

country and the history and the way it treats

18:51

people and how what can I do personally?

18:54

And so I think it's great

18:56

when other people get involved because I think that we're

18:59

the generation that when we come together

19:01

in large amounts, like we've seen what it can do. But

19:04

I also understand that some people

19:06

that doesn't interest them and they just want to be a kid.

19:09

And I feel like we shouldn't

19:11

force anyone to do to be active if

19:14

it's just personally how I feel I

19:16

am making an impact or can do something

19:18

in this crazy fucking no.

19:21

I I agree. I think

19:23

that, um that is totally

19:26

like how I feel less helpless, Like I I feel

19:28

physically like I have to. At the

19:30

same time, I really get frustrated by

19:32

the rhetoric that comes from older generations that's

19:34

sort of in line with like gen Z is gonna

19:37

save us, like it's our responsibility,

19:39

Like we need help, we need help.

19:41

I think every individual should be engaged some

19:43

way, and sometimes it's can be so small within your

19:45

own community. But I mean

19:48

there is so much pressure when people have

19:50

said, multiple people have said

19:52

to me, you know you're gonna be the one to fix us, Like why

19:54

Donna the generation? I'm like me,

19:58

little me. I still haven't

20:01

gotten my permit um neither

20:03

have I. That's

20:05

right, you told me about that. I know. I still I'm

20:08

nervous to take you a second time. But my brother told

20:10

me to just suck it up, just do it. I'm like,

20:12

if you fail, I fail, you got it exactly. You can always

20:14

do it again. Here's a question. Are you more afraid

20:16

of failure or success? I'm

20:19

thinking about this yesterday. Tell

20:21

you my answer a good question. Yeah, okay,

20:23

So I think I'm more afraid to succeed than

20:26

to fail, because I feel like if I'm failing,

20:29

you're only failing if you don't get back up. But

20:32

I feel like if you succeed, then

20:34

I'd be worried of how much there is

20:36

to lose. Let's

20:40

just got deep. But no, Sammy,

20:42

that's like such a good question, Like I'm going to

20:44

start asking other people that and then giving you credit. Question.

20:46

Um, I am totally just

20:49

so afraid of failure, so I think it will be disingenuous

20:52

for me to say anything else. However, I've never considered

20:54

fully being fearful of success. I

20:58

even bringing it back to the team, folks, I'm at I am terrified

21:00

of the amount of attention some people receive we

21:03

talked about and that you might receive as so.

21:05

Prime example, Olivia Rodrigo really

21:08

just cool personal round performed there, and

21:11

just seeing the amount of people who were

21:13

invested in her, in her performance, when she was wearing and

21:15

everything made me and

21:18

I'm not even uncomfortable. There were

21:20

people like I want to see what she's

21:22

wearing, and I want these grown me.

21:25

These were grown men older than her, older,

21:28

way older. And I told and I

21:30

remember, it was just dis concerning how

21:32

many people cared so much about her

21:34

personal life. And I think

21:37

that's a real issue that's happening. And we see

21:39

this like you shouldn't put anybody

21:41

on a pedestal. It's dehumanizing to do that

21:43

to anybody, Like what people don't get these

21:46

are just teenage Yes, even

21:48

if you could be praising them. I think praising

21:50

somebody excessively and like you know whatever, what's

21:54

we're braiding them excessively is

21:56

totally coming from the same place. Yes,

22:01

And I saw that happen with her, and I was just like, gosh,

22:03

I feel

22:06

for her because ultimately she's

22:08

just a human being like we all are. And

22:11

in that way, I'm totally fearful

22:13

of success that like that version of it, that

22:16

concentrated and people know everything about

22:19

caring about you, being invested in your life and your

22:21

decisions. That is terrifying to me. But

22:24

it also comes aloud privilege. You know, it is

22:26

interesting, but so many people our

22:28

age want that. It's interesting

22:31

just seeing how many people want their

22:34

goal. Their end goal is faint, but

22:36

not what they're doing or their

22:38

journey. And I want this, But I think

22:40

that's particular. I mean, maybe it happens started

22:43

and maybe like if I could guess, like nineties,

22:45

early two thousands, you had to ntview, you had just

22:47

more um kind of intimate entertainment

22:50

about celebrities lives. So

22:52

maybe that sort of craze started then of

22:55

like people wanting not just to be an

22:57

actress or wanting to be famous.

23:00

So maybe that's where it started. But I think it's even more intense

23:02

now within this generation, and I think that's bad.

23:05

I think some of the people that started are like the Paris

23:07

Hilton and the Kim Kardashian where though

23:10

I think they've become incredible like business women

23:12

and great things, at the time, they became famous

23:14

for not doing that, for just they became famous

23:16

for being famous. And I think that's where

23:18

the craze started totally, and it's even more intense

23:20

now and and to some degree, I get it. You want

23:23

to be important. It hurts

23:25

to be alive and feel I

23:27

imagine it would hurt to be alive and feel like you hadn't

23:29

left Mark and I totally. I mean in

23:32

speaking of you know, if you're failure,

23:35

that's where it comes from. For me, it's like I want

23:37

to make the most out of this life, like I've got to do

23:39

something with the time I have. And so I think

23:41

it's maybe those people who strive for fame

23:44

where we just have the same fear, which is a failure

23:46

and wanting to be important. So I get it, but

23:48

I saw compensating for something. Yeah, totally,

23:51

I get it. But I think we all needed like shifter our

23:53

values. And I say this, you know to myself

23:56

as well too, not success

23:58

or whatever. People's definitely enough that is, but just um

24:01

pride within oneself and the

24:03

actions that you're taking. I've been defining

24:06

success lately as contentness,

24:09

being happy with that and

24:11

not about the numbers, because as soon as I

24:13

go down that, why do I not grow down?

24:16

Well? Comparison, Oh sammy, do

24:18

you do the same thing? Just like comparing I comparison.

24:22

I don't look at numbers for the podcast. If

24:26

one person is listening, that's all I care about. Yeah,

24:29

yeah, I think that you're totally

24:31

right. I mean, I'm just so bad when it comes

24:33

to comparing and like but

24:36

just afected by the outside world. Yes, it's do

24:38

it all the time. And I think have

24:41

you noticed that when I'm when I'm on at least when I'm on

24:43

social media, I do it less. And

24:45

that's why I am like, Wow, social

24:47

media is great to not be honest, yes, no,

24:50

exactly, Like that's why for

24:52

most of the time I have Instagram to lead it off my phone

24:54

I'm not like an

24:56

angel, though I totally redownload and like, go check

24:58

somebody's story. But otherwise I like to

25:00

keep it off because if I'm not reminded

25:03

of um, it's not even particular

25:06

people, it's just the world at large, I

25:08

can focus on myself and what I want to accomplish

25:10

my own self esteem. But it's incredibly difficult.

25:12

So I guess I would just encourage everybody to do

25:14

what they can to too. Detach

25:18

a little bit. And I will say that was one

25:20

of the really good things about so Will Travel for me is it gave

25:22

me a lot of time to think and thinking

25:25

like where do I want to go? What do I want

25:27

it? What are my intentions? What do I hope

25:29

to put out right? You know, you sort of have

25:32

to force yourself to be with yourself exactly,

25:34

And I wish I would have done that earlier. Wherever you go, there

25:36

you are. Yeah. And

25:39

when I first heard that, it terrified the ship out

25:41

of me because I was like, Buck, I should

25:43

probably really learned to like being with myself if

25:46

I'm stuck with myself. So that's what the journey

25:48

is. It's so funny you say

25:50

that, Gosh, that's Quotes

25:53

like that are bringing more and more too as I get older.

25:55

Just like the quintessential stuff you heard when you were younger, whatever

25:59

the meaning now yeah, I know exactly,

26:01

just like treat yourself the way you want to be treated. Just

26:04

all this stuff. It's like, oh wow, it's so hard.

26:06

True, it's incredibly hard. Um,

26:09

but it's all ringing, very true. Yeah, wherever

26:11

you go, there you are. So you have to focus

26:14

your energy and resources in your time, not scrolling

26:16

through your feed I get the instinct, but instead

26:19

focusing it on yourself and how you can

26:21

be a better person. And I just realized you could swear

26:23

on the pod. Yeah you can't, And I think that's

26:26

great. Yeah, anytime

26:31

we have to take one more quick break, but when we

26:33

come back, I'm gonna talk more about your love

26:36

of acting and your new amazing

26:38

role in Gotham Nights. We'll be

26:40

right back and

26:48

we're back. One of

26:50

the things that I'm curious about

26:52

is there a struggle with being an

26:54

actor. You're going to someone else's mind

26:57

and you're drawing another character and creating

26:59

another person essentially, but when you're

27:01

also working on yourself, is that every difficult

27:03

when you're working on someone else. Um,

27:08

that's such a good question, Sam, you're so good.

27:11

Um, yes, and no to So

27:13

to be honest that my work thus

27:15

far has been pretty simple, and

27:17

that when you were young, you're usually

27:20

cast because of your essence and not because

27:22

you're being asked to play some sort of like transformative character.

27:25

So I really haven't had that experience of having to

27:27

do like some deep psychological work.

27:30

I'm excited for it and look forward to that, but

27:32

I haven't had that yet. Going into this new

27:35

job that I'm doing, it will be different. I think I'll have to

27:37

do more character work, and I am and I'm

27:40

excited about that. But I think you

27:42

kind of find yourself through characters.

27:44

Maybe I don't think they're entirely separate.

27:47

Um, I think you kind of you can just

27:49

kind of unravel and unfold. And

27:52

I think that's why I gravitate towards acting. I

27:54

think I've always felt conflicted about who I am, and

27:56

that's partly because of age, but it's also because, as

27:59

I said, I think I'm I don't know if impressionable

28:01

as the word, but I really soaked up my environment

28:04

and so when I was younger, it was my four brothers and

28:06

just kind of becoming them and reflecting

28:09

their personalities. Um and so I've

28:11

always felt like I don't know exactly who I am,

28:13

And maybe that's why I like acting, because I can like

28:17

no exactly and for once that becomes a

28:19

benefit and not something I just like about myself. The idea

28:21

that I can be a ton of people, or that I hold

28:23

a bunch of perspectives in my mind

28:26

is actually a benefit to me in acting. So for

28:29

me, I feel like it's just pulling from like all

28:31

the all the little parts with me right now. That's

28:34

that's so beautiful. That's

28:37

also like a working theory. But

28:40

you know what, like that's life. And be

28:42

easy on yourself because you are still a teenager.

28:45

Of course you're you're about to not be soon.

28:47

Know just airs I'll be twenty What I

28:50

didn't I was hesitant to bring it up. But I feel like you're so

28:52

ready for twenty. I feel like when I first met you, you were already

28:55

like settling down. I've

28:57

always ready to have always been ready to

28:59

not be a team ajan. As soon as it started,

29:01

I was like, Nah, this isn't for me. So

29:04

I'm hoping twenties is

29:06

great. Oh, I think it will be. I mean, that's

29:08

all you hear from people that either actually and

29:12

then thirties are thriving. My

29:15

parents are like their thirties for their favorite

29:17

decade. And that's an extreme comfort to me because it's

29:19

like your twenties both more money exactly,

29:21

more money resources and you know yourself exactly.

29:25

I like that, Sammy. I can't wait. I

29:28

wonder what's going to be like, Oh, I think it'll

29:31

be great. I think we'll be like just having

29:33

these same conversations, except maybe with a little more

29:35

wisdom and perspective. M I love

29:37

that. I want to talk about your show

29:39

real quick because I am

29:42

so proud of you. You were I

29:44

mean, god, I really just love you and I'm great

29:46

for you because you were there for me. There was a year

29:48

of unemployment and you

29:50

were there, of course to believe in me

29:53

and really um encourage

29:55

me to kind of take my life into my own hands. And

29:57

it's great that I am just now picking up on that,

30:00

like like what's happened? Like what's

30:02

happened? So Gotham Knights. I saw the trailer.

30:05

I haven't even watched the whole thing because I can't why,

30:08

Um, I've used this word a lot of this episode to

30:10

excuse me, but yeah, it makes me anxious. You

30:12

know what. I was like, I did not expect

30:15

the twist and turns. I'm so, I'm

30:17

really I'm very excited to watch it because

30:19

I was like, oh, ship, didn't expect that. It

30:21

was just the trailer. I really, God,

30:23

I hope you like it. You know, it's hard, like there's

30:26

so much pressure, especially within like the DC comic

30:28

book community, and um,

30:31

especially with me. I'm kind of hesitant

30:33

to speak about this, but like, I'm

30:36

playing a character that's adapted from the comics

30:38

from the comic books called Kerry Kelly who was

30:40

depicted white m h in

30:43

the comics, and I'm not, um

30:47

really yeah, I don't know. Did you know that? Um?

30:50

So, it's

30:52

just been hard because like the first thing when I

30:54

was researching my character after I found out I got the

30:56

role, the first thing that shows up, because

30:59

Deadline had already done like press release that this news

31:01

was out there on YouTube, was some random

31:03

video from like this old guy

31:05

Gotham Knights will be a woke disaster. My face

31:07

on the thumbnail. Great,

31:10

that's a reminder of like that's still

31:12

where we are. That I can just be born

31:16

um and have a particular pigment and

31:18

whatever particular ethnic

31:20

makeup, and I am representative

31:23

of Awoke Disaster. But

31:26

that doesn't make any sense to me because it's

31:29

bullshit. But also, like your

31:31

talent will just show that's

31:34

all you can do. All you can do is do your best, thanks

31:37

and be what you think this character is. I think

31:39

that's the direction we want to move into. Right where where people

31:41

are being I mean speaking,

31:44

yeah, I mean right. It's just like, why does it matter

31:46

about the essence of somebody? You know, why

31:48

does it matter? Don't

31:51

worry whoever made that video? And who's all

31:53

the people who are disappointed in casting a

31:56

lot of other like white people on the show.

31:58

So it's and I promise they're

32:00

there. You've got your representation, I promise,

32:03

I promise use enough representation for everyone.

32:05

Trust me, Mr Gotha Niese

32:07

will be Awoke Disaster. I get the

32:10

desire to have representation, but you have

32:12

it. It's there in the show. You have it, you

32:14

know what you know? Brown and yeah, brown

32:17

people can have maybe. I mean I don't

32:19

like to put myself on that pedestal, but but

32:21

I think everybody deserves obviously to be

32:23

represented. I mean, that's what we want out of entertainment.

32:25

So just relax, people have their time

32:27

see it, you can be it, yes exactly,

32:30

and think of the impact that that can have on people that will see

32:32

you on the screen. I yeah, And that makes

32:34

me again, makes me anxious and I and I don't want

32:36

to put myself on that pedestal. I I feel

32:38

like we're in a time where there are so many great examples of

32:41

people of color represented with them film and TV to look

32:43

at, and so um yeah

32:46

I I, um yeah,

32:49

Well, I know you don't think yourself. I think

32:51

you're who cares like

32:54

what your skin color is. I think you're just an incredibly

32:56

talented person. And I am so excited

32:58

for this next chapter and see what it's gonna

33:01

just unravel for you, because y'all

33:04

were all is about to see nab A Robbins. Get

33:06

ready hopefully they like her. I don't know. I

33:09

was, you know, I've never been very like caught

33:12

into trailers, and that trailer was really good.

33:14

Yeah. That means I highly recommend you

33:16

watch it. Oh,

33:19

I I'm you know, I'm a fan of the show. Like I read

33:21

the first the pilot. Um, and got

33:23

treated before I took the role

33:25

whatever, and I was

33:28

a fan of it. I was like, oh gosh, they did Natalie James,

33:30

um Chad, these writers, they just did a good job.

33:33

It's fun. It's it's really fun. In the second

33:35

episode I just read it, It's

33:37

really fun, and I'm just like, oh, God, like, yeah,

33:39

I'm excited to be a part of something that I considered pretty kid

33:41

gas and um. I have so many ambitions

33:44

as an actress and and this is one of them,

33:46

and I'm excited I get to fulfill this at such

33:49

a young age. So thank you for

33:51

being supportive of it. Of course, all I

33:53

want is my friend's approval. I really

33:55

mean it. I probably I will always be here to support

33:58

always, thank you all, always speak here

34:00

to support you. I'm a fan of yours and grateful

34:03

for you. I love you. You're just

34:05

really an inspiration to me. I hope you

34:08

don't take that as sachurin. And I can't wait to see

34:10

where you go next. I can't wait to be in our thirties

34:12

together reflecting on reflecting, Yeah,

34:16

exactly, And I can't wait

34:19

to see what this will look like for you the next six

34:21

months, hopefully I'll get to visit

34:23

you in Atlanta. Yes please, we'll FaceTime also

34:25

and just catch up and think it knows for FaceTime,

34:27

thanking us for FaceTime. And we can't let six months

34:29

go back. We can't. Oh,

34:31

I'm sad this conversation's ending. I'll do

34:34

it again. We'll do it again. And just thank

34:36

you for just taking the time with

34:39

everything you have going on in your life. And I appreciate

34:41

you just always being there for me and be

34:44

having you as a friend and very grateful. It's

34:46

a lovely way to spend it. Thank you so much, Sai.