0:00

Hello everyone and welcome back to let's Talk

0:02

Later . I am your host , Capri , and

0:04

today we have a special guest

0:06

that will be talking with us around

0:10

abuse and addiction and its

0:12

effects on families . We're sharing

0:15

perspectives and doing a little

0:17

bit of Q&A and having some open

0:19

dialogue . Special guests , would

0:21

you like to introduce yourself ?

0:24

Hey , what's up y'all ? This is Marcel

0:26

.

0:27

And Marcel , how do you know me ?

0:30

Oh wow . I think

0:32

I met you like 11

0:34

years ago and

0:38

decided to propose

0:40

to you and make

0:42

you my wife at some point .

0:45

Okay , you're so crazy . So

0:47

, yes , this is my husband , marcel

0:51

, and yeah , so

0:53

Jaila , our other host

0:55

that is usually with me on this mic

0:57

, is not with

0:59

us on this episode , as

1:01

in . So It'll Be Just Me and Marcel today talking

1:04

, because , thankfully , she

1:06

does not have very much experience

1:09

in this area . For that I

1:11

am very proud . So

1:14

let's get into it . As I mentioned

1:16

, today we'll be talking about abuse

1:18

and addiction

1:21

, and so how

1:25

we'll start is kind of you know . I'm

1:27

just going to share some statistics

1:29

around . You know substance abuse and

1:32

addiction . And so , according

1:35

to drugabusestatisticsorg

1:38

and , as usual , share these links in

1:40

the show notes 13.5%

1:43

of Americans 12 and over have

1:46

used drugs in the past month At

1:48

the time they took this survey , which was in 2020

1:51

. You're the pandemic

1:53

right . And

1:55

then 21.4%

1:58

, or 59.277

2:01

million people 12

2:04

and over were users

2:06

of illegal drugs or misused

2:08

prescription drugs within the past

2:10

year . And so when we're talking

2:13

about abuse , specifically in

2:15

the black communities , 16%

2:19

of the child population nationally

2:21

are African American children and

2:24

they make up 30% of

2:26

the child abuse and neglect fatalities

2:29

, and that comes from the black child

2:31

legacy campaign . I

2:35

think when I first saw that , it

2:37

was kind of alarming actually , because 30%

2:40

, even though it's a small percentage of

2:42

the 100% . We're just talking about

2:44

African American children . That does not account for

2:46

Asian American , alaskan

2:48

, native American , you

2:51

know , caucasian , etc . So

2:53

that's a pretty big chunk

2:56

of the percentage , unfortunately . So

2:58

, yeah

3:01

, let that sit and settle for you a little

3:03

bit . So

3:05

with that , we're

3:07

also going to cover , you know , a

3:10

few of our own personal experiences

3:12

and perspectives during

3:15

this conversation today , so we'll

3:19

just jump right into it . So

3:22

, marcel , what

3:24

do you think , or not

3:27

, what do you think , but you know , how would

3:29

you define abuse ?

3:34

I don't know . I mean , you

3:38

know there's there's levels to it , right

3:40

, there's physical

3:43

, mental , but

3:46

I would say it's

3:49

, for the most part

3:51

, I guess , too much of something .

3:56

Okay , so too much of something

3:58

, definitely . I mean , I agree when , when

4:01

I think about abuse , like

4:04

the first thing that comes to mind is

4:06

physical abuse . But I mean , you're absolutely right

4:09

, it can be mental , it can be physical

4:12

, it has different forms

4:14

, right ? And

4:17

I think that

4:19

when , when we

4:21

say abuse I think that's kind of the

4:24

popular definition or

4:26

kind of what comes to anyone's mind is like , oh

4:29

, were you abused . That means , oh , were you hit

4:31

, you know , were you , like

4:33

you know , in a domestic violence type of

4:35

situation ? And

4:38

I think not often

4:40

enough do we think or

4:42

acknowledge the other types

4:44

of abuse . Right , you know , you don't have

4:46

to be physically assaulted

4:48

by someone to have experienced

4:51

abuse , right ? And

4:54

so when we're talking about mental

4:56

versus physical , like you

4:58

know , what are your thoughts ? Like , what do

5:01

you feel ? Just personal perspective

5:03

, do you feel that one is

5:05

more traumatic or impactful

5:07

than another ? Would

5:09

you say , in your personal experience

5:12

in life , which one did you come

5:14

across more ? Which one did you

5:16

experience more ?

5:19

Well , as far as I can remember

5:21

, going back as

5:25

far as I can remember as

5:27

a child , there was definitely

5:31

both going on . I

5:34

was physically abused . I

5:36

feel like just about a

5:40

good amount of the African

5:42

American community has experienced

5:45

some type of you know , whether they call

5:47

them whoop ins or spankings

5:50

or whatnot . That was my

5:53

experience on the physical side

5:55

of it . It was

5:57

really like seemed like

5:59

I forget my

6:02

sweater at school , I get a

6:04

weapon , or I

6:07

wasn't at school when it was time

6:09

for me to get picked up . It

6:12

actually had a lot to do

6:14

with school . It revolved

6:16

around school as far

6:18

as behavior and

6:21

just my academic performance

6:23

. So that's

6:25

the first thing that comes to mind when I think

6:27

of abuse , and it started physical

6:30

, started off physical and

6:32

then I think it became a

6:36

mental battle

6:38

along with

6:40

that abuse . I

6:42

wouldn't say I was abused mentally

6:44

as far as being torn down by

6:47

words from my

6:49

parents , because this was my father in particular

6:51

that was doing this . But you

6:54

know , as a child

6:56

being in like second , third and fourth

6:58

grade or whatnot , the more that happens

7:00

I think you're led to believe that

7:03

you're clearly not doing

7:05

something right and then

7:08

you tend to act out

7:10

in result

7:12

of that , I guess .

7:16

Yeah , yeah , definitely , that

7:20

all makes sense . It's interesting . Why

7:22

do you think I mean , do

7:24

you have an opinion on that ? Like you said , it was largely

7:27

around school . Why

7:29

do you think that ?

7:32

Well , when it was happening , I

7:37

can't really remember what I of

7:39

course , as a child , you just

7:41

you don't want it to keep happening , right ? But

7:43

then as

7:47

I got older and me

7:49

and my father started to speak more

7:51

about just his

7:53

childhood and mine , he

7:56

actually let me know that he

7:58

had the exact same upbringing

8:01

, and in fact it

8:03

was . It was . It wasn't the exact

8:05

same , it was a little more intense

8:07

. The weapons

8:10

or the spankings that he got was

8:13

more intense , more physical

8:15

. It

8:17

left him scarred

8:19

. To this day , versus

8:21

for me . I'm able to

8:24

address it with

8:26

him and with you

8:28

, as we do in therapy

8:30

, but

8:33

no , at the time you don't really know what to think

8:35

. It's just evident that you're

8:37

not doing something right .

8:41

Okay , I'll

8:44

say it so for me , I

8:49

feel like I so

8:51

. I experienced both mental and physical

8:53

abuse in

8:55

my adolescence and , before

9:00

I even go into that , like my mind , I'm

9:03

like feeling like I should address something

9:05

. So I feel like this

9:08

is always personal perspective

9:10

because , no

9:12

, there is no popular opinion

9:14

, there is no one or two statistics

9:16

or beliefs that can cover the entire

9:19

world , right , and so I feel like

9:21

a lot of people will hear this and then

9:23

they'll say everybody got whooped

9:25

. What you mean abuse , like

9:27

why are you calling it abuse ? We all got whooped , my

9:30

mama whooped me , my daddy whooped me , etc . Etc

9:32

. Etc . That

9:35

is one of the stigmas that I feel

9:37

, and many therapists

9:39

that I've talked to and colleagues and friends

9:41

will agree that

9:44

that's one of the stigmas we need to

9:46

let go of . That whooping

9:48

is abuse

9:50

. It is Any

9:52

time that you physically

9:55

hurt , harm someone as

9:58

a result of something they did that you

10:00

didn't like . I

10:02

mean , just listen to that . It

10:05

is , it's , it's and we were

10:07

. A lot of us , unfortunately , were conditioned

10:09

. Some will theorize that in

10:11

the days of slavery , when we were

10:13

whipped , you know , or

10:16

our ancestors fortunately

10:20

you know for us that we weren't in those places

10:23

, but our ancestors were beaten and whipped

10:25

that that kind

10:28

of like was ingrained in our psyche

10:31

and that became our response to anger

10:33

, was to what was to hit , because

10:35

that's what our for generations and

10:37

generations and generations that's what we've

10:39

learned was the correct and appropriate

10:41

response . And so

10:44

, anytime

10:46

you don't you fail

10:48

to have a conversation and acknowledge

10:51

and respect the understanding

10:54

of where

10:57

a child is emotionally , developmentally

11:00

, and instead you choose to lay

11:02

a blow . That is abuse . Let's

11:04

just call it what it is , just be real , it

11:06

is and it's a cycle that

11:09

needs to be broken . So

11:11

interject with that . And

11:14

then , for me , like I said , I experienced both

11:16

mental and physical abuse . I

11:19

would say the physical . No , you

11:21

know , I don't . I don't know , honestly , which one was more

11:23

impactful . I

11:25

think the mental

11:27

part of it , but the mental part

11:30

of it in response to

11:32

the physical part of it , was

11:35

most impactful . How I felt after

11:37

it happened is what

11:39

I feel like was most impactful for me

11:42

, because I feel like , honestly , I experienced

11:44

them both evenly and

11:50

so with that . So

11:53

, marcel , like what would you say like the

11:55

abuse you did experience ? Like how do you feel

11:57

like that affects you now

11:59

? Like how did that affect you Like growing up as a

12:01

teenager and , as you

12:04

know , into your manhood , and then the person you

12:06

are now ? Like what do you think that did

12:08

for you in a positive or negative light ?

12:12

Well , first off , I

12:14

would say the

12:17

physical didn't

12:19

really , it didn't really

12:22

have effect on me , I would say until

12:24

around sixth grade

12:26

, and then it

12:29

actually had an effect

12:31

, so much to the point it

12:33

was starting to show my teacher

12:35

and yeah , my teachers

12:38

were like bringing this up as

12:40

far as , like you know , I

12:42

mean they're acting out , I'm just different

12:44

, or they just noticed

12:47

something was different , and I

12:50

actually took

12:52

it upon myself to tell them what

12:55

was going on . And

12:57

again

13:00

, and that's that's a little bit where the

13:02

mental it's . It's not

13:05

quite abuse , but it takes its toll

13:07

because , to backtrack a little bit

13:09

, speaking on the mental part of it

13:11

, I

13:13

was always picked on by kids

13:15

. Whether it was I

13:18

don't know , I was an easy target

13:21

. You know , I was

13:23

always laughing and that was a reason

13:25

. Or the clothes I had on

13:27

didn't

13:29

, I don't know , look as nice or didn't

13:32

have the same name brand as

13:34

the other kids In

13:37

this particular school when I was that

13:39

, I was in sixth grade , my

13:41

father had five outfits for

13:44

the whole year and

13:46

that was something I got picked on . I think

13:48

kids realized that , you know , it's like

13:50

those same pants or whatever . So that

13:53

became a thing . So , with

13:55

the mental part now , always

13:59

on edge , wondering

14:02

like what's the next thing they're going

14:04

to be talking about ? What are they going to

14:06

pick on me about today ? And

14:08

that makes me want to emulate

14:11

someone that doesn't get

14:13

picked on , whether they cause trouble

14:16

or they're just , like you

14:19

know , a class clown or what have

14:21

you . So the mental

14:23

abuse made

14:26

me want to be someone else , thinking

14:29

that they wouldn't

14:31

see that same kid

14:33

that they used to pick on . Maybe now

14:36

I'll , you know , be that funny guy

14:38

instead of that poor looking

14:40

guy or a cool guy . So

14:46

it didn't really

14:48

it didn't do too much . I mean , I told

14:50

the school what was going on and they

14:53

actually ended up calling a CPS and

14:55

it turned into a whole other

14:57

can of worms . And

15:00

the physical abuse led me to

15:03

be afraid of my father and

15:06

instill fear 100

15:09

percent . Just , you

15:11

know the tone of his voice . Knowing

15:15

what would set him off or take

15:17

him off was something I tried

15:19

very hard to avoid , and when

15:21

I knew he was getting to that point

15:23

I got really nervous

15:26

. So I

15:28

don't know if I'm rambling on or if I answered the

15:30

question , but yeah

15:32

, that's kind of where it

15:36

all started was

15:38

around sixth grade and what it did for

15:40

me . It

15:43

just changed me . It made me want to wear a mask

15:45

or just not really be myself , or

15:49

a very long time .

15:53

That makes total sense . This

15:56

is like a quick follow up question , so it's

15:58

. It sounded to me

16:00

that you kind of made a

16:02

turn right . So when

16:05

you're talking about the mental abuse

16:08

and the physical abuse , but

16:10

then backing up to the mental , when

16:12

you were made fun of , I experienced

16:15

that as well when you were made fun

16:17

of and picked on , so bullying

16:20

, do you ? Would you categorize

16:22

that in the same area as abuse ?

16:25

100% . Yeah , one

16:29

thing that I heard it

16:31

way before I

16:33

heard Charlemagne say it , but the

16:37

phrase hurt people , hurt people . That

16:40

was really what

16:42

it always was , because again

16:44

, as you get older , you

16:47

realize that it

16:51

wasn't you . It was what they were

16:53

going through . So bullying

16:56

not so much , but

16:58

I definitely got picked on a lot

17:00

. I did get bullied a little

17:03

bit . There was . There was some physical abuse

17:05

alone with it , but

17:07

yeah

17:09

, it's either way , it's

17:11

abuse .

17:13

I would agree . For

17:16

me

17:18

, you know , being

17:21

picked on anything

17:24

like mental abuse , physical abuse

17:26

they're both mind altering

17:28

, right . They change how you look at the world

17:30

, they change how you look at other people , they change how

17:32

you look at yourself . And so

17:34

, in addition to being torn down

17:37

from the abuses that I was experiencing

17:40

in the home , the bullying and

17:43

the you

17:45

know the ways that I was made fun of in

17:50

middle school , more

17:52

so high school . Honestly , I feel like you

17:55

know that transition was a bit probably

17:57

my biggest experience with the being

18:00

picked on , but it

18:03

did change the way I felt about myself

18:05

. I got a lot of remarks and comments about

18:07

my body and , you

18:11

know , having a child

18:13

young Don't , don't

18:15

even get me started that

18:17

was huge , for

18:21

that was like a hot ticket item

18:23

for kids my age , because it's

18:25

like oh , you had a kid , oh , you're

18:27

this , you're that you should be ashamed . I

18:29

can't believe it . Like I was a subject of

18:31

the whispers , and so that changed how

18:33

I felt about myself . It really killed myself

18:35

, a scene which was already faltering because

18:38

of the abuses that I was

18:40

experiencing in the home , and

18:42

then it was just like the cherry on top . So

18:46

, just , you know , just

18:48

bullying , as a

18:50

subset , if you will , of

18:52

abuse . It's really really

18:54

not looked at closely enough . You hear these

18:56

stories in the news about

18:58

these kids in these schools and parents

19:01

trying to get the schools and to to

19:03

respond and you get the boys

19:05

will be boys , girls will be girls , or they

19:07

don't pay attention and then

19:09

these kids commit suicide . It's

19:12

scary , it's problematic and

19:14

I mean it goes way deeper than

19:17

you know . Just kind of a detention . There

19:19

needs to be a constant

19:21

partnership . I don't feel

19:23

like y'all probably think you know we always preach him , but

19:25

it's it's so true that

19:27

there needs to be a constant , this systemic

19:30

change with the , the

19:33

households , between the households

19:35

and the administration in schools

19:37

, because that behavior is coming

19:39

from somewhere . That's for a child

19:41

to to think that or

19:44

feel that it's okay

19:47

to tear somebody else down based

19:49

on making themselves feel better , what

19:51

they're seeing in the home , how

19:53

they're talked to at home . You know all

19:55

of that like it's . It just creates this very nasty

19:58

vicious cycle and

20:01

it's it's problematic because if it , what if

20:03

it were your kid ? What if that

20:05

picture in the newspaper or , you know

20:07

, on the screen or this ? These days , everybody get their

20:09

news from Twitter or Instagram

20:12

or TikTok , you know that

20:14

picture could be someone

20:17

you know , and so it's very

20:19

hard to to

20:21

swallow that and

20:24

just kind of go on with with life , especially

20:26

as a parent , you know . And so

20:28

things that I went through

20:31

, the things that Marcel's

20:33

gone through , like I don't wish

20:35

that I would , I would , I mean I would hurt

20:37

somebody about my , about my kids , you

20:39

know , and so it's just

20:42

there's just so much healing to be

20:44

done . I can't say

20:46

that enough . So

20:48

onto

20:51

the next question . So

20:56

After

20:59

, so the effects of , you know , abuse

21:01

and bullying . So on

21:05

that same topic , like One

21:08

that's big for me is , is workplace

21:10

bullying . Have

21:13

you experienced bullying

21:15

in the workplace ?

21:19

I Think so a

21:21

little bit . The crazy part

21:23

about it is , I think it was from

21:25

a woman and I Was

21:29

a kind of new to

21:32

the job and Me

21:37

being , you know , just a joyful , talkative

21:39

person I am , and that's

21:43

what I've always noticed , whether it was at

21:46

work or again with childhood but

21:48

some reason it seemed like my joy

21:50

and Me

21:52

being happy and laughing and stuff just

21:54

really used to tick people off . And

21:58

in this particular case , I Actually

22:01

started this job with a guy

22:03

I grew up with in my area

22:05

or in my neighborhood , and First

22:09

thing she said , I think , on our first day , was like

22:11

you guys aren't done yet , and it

22:13

was . It was it came off as a joke

22:15

, I guess , or she meant for it to come off as

22:17

a joke , but you know her presence

22:19

and everything . It just it just didn't

22:22

, it didn't Come

22:25

off the right way , rubbed

22:27

us the wrong way and From

22:30

there it was a lot of random

22:33

things , like I , we

22:35

were in a warehouse like Like packing

22:38

up boxes . I'm probably I

22:40

don't know 21 , 22 years

22:42

old or something like that and Went

22:45

and got a chair To

22:47

sit down while I was working in . Soon

22:49

, as I got up , she comes behind me and takes

22:51

the chair and was like we don't pay you

22:53

to sit down and work and she's

22:56

not a supervisor or anything , she's the

22:58

worker , just like me

23:00

, and

23:03

it was . It was always her , it was always

23:05

something . So that , I

23:07

think , was the only time I really experienced

23:10

pulling bullying in the workplace

23:13

. Other than that , I

23:16

think all the

23:18

abuse and just the past

23:20

experiences had

23:22

me on defense mode , to where I

23:25

felt like anybody was Trying

23:29

to , I

23:32

guess , trick me or or trying

23:34

to Guess

23:38

what you call like trying to play me or

23:40

something . I was . I just always was on defense

23:42

and I was always ready

23:45

to either get revenge or address somebody

23:47

about it because I Let it happen

23:49

for so long before .

23:54

It's very interesting that you bring this up , because

23:57

I know exactly what you're talking about and

24:00

I remember those

24:02

stories that you would share , but

24:06

what I think also ? So

24:08

not , but I think also it

24:11

would be very interesting and

24:13

worthwhile for you to share your perspective about

24:15

your manager and Kind

24:19

of how , like if you even

24:21

realized that was bullying

24:23

Before you

24:26

know , while it was happening , because , as you

24:28

were telling , sharing the stories with me , I

24:30

definitely felt like she was a bully .

24:32

Tom , I did the same job .

24:33

Yes .

24:34

Yes , so the manager was more so

24:36

. That was more on the mental side of it . This

24:41

was like my manipulation 101

24:43

, to where she

24:47

was able to Convince

24:51

us or make us believe that she was

24:53

doing us such a favor

24:55

that , for example , if she

24:58

wanted to have , like , a team meeting after

25:01

work , that

25:04

we would be Disrespectful

25:06

to ask for overtime

25:09

, or even

25:11

disrespectful to say that we have to leave

25:13

. Like , if we have to leave and and

25:16

she wants to talk two or three

25:18

hours after the shift is over , then

25:21

we don't care about

25:23

her , or the job isn't that important

25:26

, or what not . To where ? Yeah

25:28

it it . It's like a , it's like

25:31

reverse psychology , right , you're ? You know

25:33

, you're thinking like , wow , am I really that

25:35

rude or am I really that inconsiderate

25:37

when , yeah , I'm saying

25:40

this to my wife Capri Well

25:42

, she wasn't my wife at the time , but I'm telling

25:44

her this and she's telling

25:47

me like this , this isn't right , and

25:49

I'm Still believing like

25:51

, no , she's doing me a favor , she's

25:53

already done so much , and

25:55

, yeah , thinking about it now was like , yeah

25:57

, wow , I didn't even

25:59

realize it .

26:01

Yeah , definitely a narcissist

26:03

, and I hope that

26:05

she has changed her ways in her later

26:08

years in life , because

26:10

I just , I can only imagine the number

26:13

of people falling victim to employers

26:15

like that , managers , supervisors , what

26:17

have you . That's

26:20

just , that's just crazy , you know . And

26:22

even in relationships , if you

26:24

think about , like romantic relationships , where

26:26

you have someone and they're like they

26:28

buy you a car and they buy you some

26:31

shoes and they give you some money

26:33

, and like you thinking , man , this person

26:35

is awesome and

26:37

you know , few

26:40

months down the line or a year down the line

26:42

, it's like remember all

26:44

of those things I did for you . You can't

26:46

do this for me . I need you to stay

26:48

here and I need you to let so

26:50

and so live with you and I need you to pay for this

26:53

. And then , all of a sudden , all of this change behavior

26:55

comes and they're constantly throwing

26:57

it back in your face of what they did for

26:59

you and Another . You

27:01

know just my manipulation and so just

27:03

being aware of

27:06

how people treat you and respond

27:08

to you , and you know being

27:12

okay with Responding

27:14

back and saying you know , hey , that's not

27:16

cool , or I won't accept that , or I don't have

27:19

to accept that . Many people Unfortunately

27:21

feel like they do , because they

27:23

got to pay the bills . You know , I got to keep this job

27:25

. I can't lose this job . You

27:28

know , and I

27:30

would love to actually have you back on here

27:32

to talk more about your outside

27:35

of job endeavors , because we're

27:38

so proud of him . He just passed his exam

27:41

, his real estate exam , and so big

27:43

things are coming and it's kind of

27:45

I'm just so proud . I'm not

27:47

gonna say too much because I want to

27:49

like maybe a little mini interview about

27:51

how things are going and maybe talk

27:54

to the Listeners about

27:56

other options . Then

27:58

I got to keep this job , and

28:00

not saying that having a job is terrible

28:03

, but you know , it's just . There's

28:05

a mentality to it Because

28:07

I always say I don't desire

28:09

to be an entrepreneur . It

28:12

just has to be the right organization , a supportive

28:14

, healthy , resourceful

28:17

Organization , which

28:19

I'm still looking for . But

28:22

anyway , off that subject and

28:24

Moving

28:27

forward . I think for so

28:29

and for me .

28:33

Well , just real quick to

28:35

go back to that manager and in the

28:37

Mental

28:39

abuse that I wasn't aware of it

28:43

, it it took effect so

28:45

much or carried over

28:47

so much to where you

28:50

thought that the manager

28:53

like either wanted to sleep

28:55

with me or I was sleeping with her , or something

28:57

like that . And Just

29:00

because it was like it didn't

29:02

make any sense to you , but it

29:06

was almost like I was defending her , it like

29:08

it kind of came off like like

29:10

it was some kind of unknown

29:12

or unspoken relationship . And

29:15

Once

29:17

I really realized

29:20

what was going on and Decided

29:23

to quit , because actually

29:25

what led up to that was , I Think

29:29

I was actually borrowing your car I

29:32

didn't have a car at the time and and

29:34

you had the worst luck with it , things

29:37

just kept happening . So then I'm like

29:40

sitting in the car just eating lunch on a regular

29:42

day , happen to be under a tree

29:44

and , what do you know , some acorn

29:46

or something comes from the tree and

29:48

cracks the windshield . So

29:51

I'm freaking out like man

29:53

there's already been things going on with

29:55

their car Like I don't want to tell her , but I have to tell

29:57

her . But like how , at least let me get it fixed

29:59

first . So , going

30:02

back to the manager . She knew someone

30:04

To come by

30:06

and actually got it fixed before I even

30:08

got off of the ship . The

30:11

day I wanted to quit I

30:14

actually went and got the money to pay her back

30:16

because she said I didn't need to pay her back

30:18

but it just never . I was never okay with

30:20

that . Oh , I never wanted people to hang that over

30:22

my head . So I made sure I got the money back . But

30:26

when I went to

30:28

tell her that I quit , she brought

30:30

that up and I'm like stop right there

30:32

, here's your money , right here . And , um

30:35

, I Don't remember

30:37

what led up to her saying it , but

30:39

when I said I wanted to leave , um

30:42

, she was like , of course

30:44

, I don't want you to leave , you , fucking idiot . And

30:47

it was like , and she was crying

30:49

and and I think that's when

30:51

it dawned on me like you

30:53

, this , this is this . Like something

30:55

else is going on , something . There

30:57

was something more was going on that I just

30:59

had no clue about , and everything

31:01

Capri was telling me about before Was starting

31:04

to just make sense . I'm

31:07

saying all that to say Before

31:11

I did feel like I needed to keep

31:13

the job because it was probably one of the first ones

31:15

I've had , or it was like the first time I

31:17

got permanent and was able to keep

31:20

a job for a while , so I felt like I

31:22

should hold on to this . I was getting

31:24

a certain amount when I was a temp

31:26

and then I got a little more money when

31:30

I got permanent . But

31:32

yeah , it was literally abused just

31:35

about the entire time and

31:37

I didn't feel bad

31:39

at all when I left and just

31:41

everything before started to make

31:43

sense after that .

31:49

So I'm going to defend myself just

31:51

a little bit . Yes , I did make

31:53

some comments about her possibly

31:57

wanting or being obsessed

31:59

with him or something , because you would say things

32:02

and it was just weird like how she would

32:04

respond to you , like she

32:06

owned you and I remember , I

32:09

think , what did I have ? A wisdom tooth extraction .

32:10

Yeah , that's what I was going to say , yeah .

32:13

And you asked her to leave earlier the time

32:15

off to come pick me up or take care of me or something

32:18

, and she was like upset

32:20

.

32:20

Yeah . So I told her that

32:22

I needed to take the day off

32:24

because you had to take some kind

32:26

of medicine , where they literally said , like you

32:28

can't drive or anything . So I'm telling

32:30

her I have to go pick her up and

32:32

take her back home , and her response

32:34

was , quote

32:37

do you need to hold her hand too ?

32:39

And listen to that .

32:41

That was where , like yeah , that was

32:43

I think that was probably the beginning of

32:45

Capri thinking like yeah , like she

32:47

likes you something's up , something's

32:49

up and yeah , yeah

32:52

, it even had me thinking about it

32:54

a little longer . Like now , that is kind of like

32:56

that's weird , like it shouldn't

32:58

even be , it's either . No , you can't do it

33:00

because I need you to work or go

33:02

ahead family first or whatnot

33:04

. But like yeah , needing to know if

33:06

I have to hold her hand , like it's

33:09

a very snide remark and it's very

33:11

inappropriate . Actually , it's just inappropriate

33:13

. It's not , it's yeah . So

33:16

again , that's just more evidence to

33:19

not knowing what was going on

33:21

until after the fact . When we think about it now

33:23

, it's like , yeah , that was . That was pretty crazy

33:25

.

33:28

Yeah , so if you have a boss

33:30

that reminds you of

33:32

this at all , if this resonates with you

33:34

, run by a

33:36

new job immediately yeah because

33:38

no one needs to be in a position

33:41

with someone like that . And

33:43

yeah , it's just , that's just crazy . I'm

33:46

ever the optimistic , I like to see the best

33:48

in people and it's to this

33:50

day . I still am

33:52

surprised

33:55

by people's behaviors . Like

33:58

people really do stuff like that , Like

34:01

well , I mean , one of the reasons that

34:03

you know Jaila's not here is she had

34:05

an interview and , to you know , we wanted

34:07

this to be a dedicated podcast for

34:09

this . You know these topics

34:11

which she does not have experience again , Clap

34:14

, clap . But she

34:17

was on an interview today and

34:19

there was a woman who was

34:22

just just rude and just very

34:25

snarky , snide comments , like

34:27

in interview

34:30

process , and it just like always

34:32

throws me because it's like really Like

34:35

, what is your deal ? Like

34:37

I know people go through things hard time

34:39

. She probably going through a divorce and

34:41

might have lost her house , I don't know . But

34:44

that's never to me , that's never

34:46

a justification for being nasty

34:48

to other people , especially someone you don't know

34:51

and has . No , has nothing

34:53

to do with the

34:55

situation . So so

34:58

I will share , unless you had something

35:00

else , I was just going to share my experience

35:02

with workplace bullying .

35:04

Yeah , I was just going to close with um . Just

35:07

stand on the topic of abuse , right , and

35:10

just the experience I had at that job

35:12

, just for everybody

35:14

listening , I guess , as far as

35:16

signs or riff flags . Going

35:19

back to what I said about that manager , you

35:21

know she used the manipulation as far

35:23

as like favor . She was doing

35:25

the things she did . I

35:28

would say always pay attention to stuff

35:30

like that . In my case , again

35:32

, I was in a bad

35:34

relationship before I

35:37

met my wife and things

35:39

got so bad to where kind of like carried

35:42

over at work and she

35:44

kept me hired there even though all of this stuff

35:47

was going on . So that's why I felt

35:49

like she was always doing me

35:51

this favor , because I'm thinking she could have fired

35:53

me and she didn't , and so I'm kind

35:55

of just letting things happen

35:58

or whatever she needed . I feel

36:00

like I'm in debt to her . So

36:02

just always pay attention to um

36:05

, I guess , the income

36:07

and the outcome , especially

36:10

when it comes to a supervisor or a boss

36:12

or whatnot , because you know slavery

36:15

is still alive and well . Whether

36:17

you're getting whipped

36:19

or not , it's still

36:21

slavery .

36:22

So yeah , word

36:27

up . So

36:31

for me , I

36:34

have experienced

36:37

, so I've worked at the same organization for

36:40

a

36:42

lot of years and

36:45

before that I worked at startups

36:49

and retail and things like that . I

36:52

think , just in general , I

36:54

have a bunch of like little instances

36:57

where you know I've been with

36:59

bosses who were

37:01

, who definitely brought

37:03

their emotions to work and

37:07

you could tell that everything you

37:09

can tell when somebody's an overshare , that

37:11

they're probably bringing all of that emotion

37:14

to work when they come and complain about their

37:16

relationship , or oh

37:19

, that's , you know , I'm waiting for

37:21

him to propose and he hasn't proposed yet

37:23

. Or oh , my kids , this there's . There's

37:25

a fine line between getting to know someone and

37:27

building relationship and trust

37:30

and oversharing

37:33

, for you know different

37:35

reasons , you know attachment styles

37:37

or trauma or PTSD or whatever . But

37:41

unfortunately , I had

37:44

the opportunity to work with

37:46

several women who had

37:49

, you know , difficulties in life

37:51

and chose to bring those to work and so as

37:53

a result , you know I was yelled

37:56

at , you know

37:58

the whole finger wagging when you're telling your like

38:00

your dog , no , don't be on the carpet

38:02

. That was done to me in my face

38:04

, and how dare I ? And I've

38:07

had missed

38:09

opportunities with other positions

38:11

because , you know my supervisor

38:13

chose to tell them I was not ready to move

38:16

forward , solely because they wanted to keep me

38:18

on board and didn't want to

38:20

deal with recruitment and retraining

38:22

. I've

38:25

I've heard , you know faculty

38:28

professors , people that are supposed

38:30

to be experts , and you know

38:32

the leaders of their areas

38:35

of research , say you know

38:37

, as far as , like you know , black

38:41

people I mean African Americans or

38:43

whatever they want to call themselves like make

38:45

comments like that . That wasn't

38:47

directly to me , I was just passing

38:49

. I've seen

38:52

situations

38:54

where you know employers

38:57

want to get rid of an employee

38:59

. This one time we had this employee who

39:01

she was struggling to start

39:03

. She was very early in the position

39:05

and just

39:09

needed some extra support and

39:11

all they kept talking about . They talked so freely

39:13

. It's kind of crazy because you know you

39:15

would think people wouldn't be so free speaking all

39:17

the time , but they

39:21

talked so freely about everything and

39:24

they were saying

39:26

how they

39:30

, how do we get rid of her ? Like , what's the best way to

39:32

just get rid of her ? You know we get

39:34

her to quit , and so they were basically

39:36

talking about piling more work onto

39:39

this woman so she would just quit , and

39:42

it it killed me to hear

39:45

it and I didn't say anything because I was afraid

39:47

of losing my job , and so

39:49

it was right before the holidays

39:52

this lady had two or three kids

39:54

and you know

39:56

it , it worked . They piled so

39:58

much on her and she got super stressed out

40:00

and she was like I'm sorry

40:03

, I can't do it , and she felt guilty . She's

40:05

crying that she couldn't do it All

40:08

the while . They intentionally did

40:11

this to her and it was just mind

40:13

blowing . Um , I

40:15

wonder if I can tell somebody now . Anyway

40:18

, um , so I've definitely

40:20

seen some things , um , especially

40:23

working in HR . Obviously , for compliance

40:25

reasons , I can't delve into all

40:27

of that stuff , but there's , there's

40:29

a huge disparity

40:31

in organizational practices

40:34

and when it comes to mental

40:36

health and just the good treatment of

40:38

people , it's , it's sickening , honestly

40:40

. Um so

40:42

, but as far as , yeah

40:44

, from my experience , it's just , you know how

40:46

I was talked to and you know there

40:50

was also this one time for me where I

40:52

was , you know , telling an employer

40:54

. You know , hey , I'm pretty

40:56

overwhelmed in this area

40:58

. Is there a way that we can take this

41:00

part of my job and spread

41:02

it out , the way these other parts

41:04

are spread ? Very similar situation

41:07

, very similar project . And I was

41:09

told well , how

41:12

about . We just talk about ways to make

41:14

you more efficient , and

41:17

I felt like that was like the

41:19

the , the stick that

41:22

broke the camel's back for me . Um

41:25

, it , just , it , just . I just didn't understand

41:27

, like I felt unseen , I felt unheard

41:29

, I felt unsupported , um

41:31

, and I don't know

41:33

if that that is intentional or not

41:35

, but , um , people need

41:37

to be very mindful and aware of

41:40

the power of their words and , um

41:42

, you know the impact

41:45

it can have on another person's mental health

41:48

and wellbeing . Um , there's this

41:50

thing I've been kind of reading about called trauma

41:52

informed care , and there

41:54

are , slowly but surely

41:56

, a lot of organizations that are training

41:58

their employees on how to

42:00

be more trauma informed , and

42:04

it's basically saying that

42:06

, um , it's

42:08

, the definition is to recognize

42:10

the prevalence of ACEs . Aces

42:13

are , um what

42:15

we've talked about on a previous episode , basically

42:18

adverse childhood experiences

42:20

. Um , so , be

42:22

aware of that prevalence and the

42:24

behaviors that can be a result of

42:26

the trauma , and in building

42:28

respect and kindness , um

42:31

are the keys to helping with recovery . So

42:33

, basically , moving through

42:36

life with the understanding

42:39

that people are very

42:42

likely , you

42:44

know , traumatized from something that

42:46

could have happened in their earlier years and

42:49

building policies around

42:51

that and , you know , providing

42:54

resources , um , and

42:57

, and you know , wellness initiatives

42:59

for employees to have

43:01

access and resource resources too

43:03

, because nine

43:07

, eight , seven depends on which

43:09

generation you're looking at seven

43:11

times out of 10 . The employee

43:13

is not going to tell you that . You

43:16

know , the way you're talking to me is a

43:18

is is triggering , the way

43:20

that you know you're

43:22

not seeing me , you're not hearing me , I'm

43:24

, I'm stressed , I'm having high anxiety

43:26

levels , because to them that means , or

43:29

they feel that that means

43:31

you can't do the job , and

43:34

most people , in America especially

43:37

, are one paycheck

43:39

away from being homeless , and so

43:41

they feel like they have to stay at this job

43:43

and they have to succumb to whatever treatment

43:46

that is being kind of brought

43:48

down on them . It's really sad and and

43:50

I don't mean to I digress because this

43:52

is I think I'm starting to

43:55

think that this may be something I'm a little passionate

43:57

about . But we won't even jump on

43:59

that train yet . But

44:01

I definitely wanted to mention the trauma informed

44:03

care piece . So

44:05

we're going to take a little bit of a turn in

44:08

our the last part of our

44:10

hour here . So

44:14

, marcel , can you talk about

44:17

? So we're going to jump over

44:19

to addiction a little bit , and

44:22

so , regarding addiction

44:24

? Was anyone close

44:27

to you or in your family , or not

44:29

, you know , passed

44:32

from addiction ?

44:34

You said passed Like

44:36

passed away from it . Um…

44:39

Not

44:41

that I don't think I know of anyone

44:43

that passed away from addiction , but

44:46

I definitely know I Found

44:49

out later on in life of all

44:51

of my family members

44:53

that were addicted to any type

44:55

of substance abuse . I'm

44:57

included my father . I

45:00

think alcoholism and some type

45:02

of drug abuse was common

45:05

, whether it was on my

45:07

mother side or my father side . It was both sides

45:10

, um , and

45:12

I'm sure there probably have

45:14

been a few deaths due to it

45:16

, but , um , I Don't

45:19

know of anyone that that

45:22

died from some of this abuse .

45:26

Okay , well , I mean , yep , that's

45:28

, that's totally fine and it's

45:30

probably good , because that answer is definitely

45:32

different for me . But you , I mean , let's

45:34

just talk you know about the

45:36

impacts of , you know even what you

45:38

discovered or were Exposed

45:41

to , you know on your family and on

45:43

your yourself , and you know how

45:45

you experience it today

45:48

.

45:51

So my first Time

45:56

I was exposed to I

45:58

mean , well , I don't really

46:00

, I don't really count marijuana

46:02

as a drug , but I do count

46:04

it as something you can definitely abuse

46:07

and that was something I

46:09

was exposed to , I think , before Anything

46:13

else . My father would

46:15

Definitely smoke

46:17

every day , my sister

46:19

smoke , um , my

46:22

mother smoked cigarettes . So

46:25

, um , for me it was like

46:27

I Didn't like the smell

46:29

of cigarettes and I noticed that

46:31

on my father's smoke it was . It

46:34

was a different smell and that was like kind

46:36

of curious . And then you know , I'm

46:40

an 80s baby , born to 88

46:42

. So you know , then Friday

46:44

comes out and you know , as

46:46

we get older , a lot of other people we

46:49

grew up with they probably start smoking

46:51

. And then you get curious . So , um , I

46:55

Was always kind of curious

46:57

. I pretty much knew At

47:00

some point I was probably gonna try to smoke

47:02

some weed and then when it

47:05

happened , it didn't really stop

47:07

. Honestly , until a

47:10

month ago , maybe

47:12

even two . It

47:15

just became a habit . Um

47:17

, but I Was

47:19

exposed to so much though I mean

47:21

I found Crack

47:25

Somewhere in my father's

47:27

house I don't even remember how old I was

47:29

and I thought it was like somebody's

47:31

tooth or something . I remember asking them

47:33

if they were teeth , just

47:36

by because of the way they looked and Later

47:39

on in life . And he actually

47:41

told me that he remembered that and just

47:44

was one one of the things he wasn't proud

47:46

of um , I Was

47:49

, I was selling it myself in

47:51

high school . Kids

47:55

in high school was popping pills , eat

47:57

ecstasy pills , so

48:00

there was a lot of exposure . But

48:03

, um , I Wasn't

48:05

really as curious as

48:08

Most of the kids

48:11

I grew up around that they . They kind

48:13

of just jumped into it . I was a little Cautious

48:17

about it . But , um , it was

48:19

always a lot of exposure very

48:22

early on and

48:24

as far as learning about

48:26

it , it was just a matter of like

48:28

, kind of Like

48:31

. Life did that for me just seeing people

48:33

I knew or People

48:35

that I remember , like my parents , being around

48:38

and seeing where they were later

48:40

on in life .

48:45

No , um , I

48:48

think for me it's

48:50

, it's , it's really , it's really different

48:52

in that . So , like I said

48:54

, I know so . My aunt

48:58

, my great aunt , passed from

49:00

an overdose when

49:02

I was in middle school . Early

49:04

middle school my

49:07

grandmother passed , not from an overdose

49:09

but prolonged use of

49:12

drugs . You

49:14

know , your important organs

49:16

start failing and Can't

49:18

really hold on anymore . My

49:20

great aunt passed basically

49:23

from the same thing . Her body

49:25

was just warring down and tore down from

49:27

alcohol and drugs . I

49:31

, unfortunately , in my childhood

49:33

I grew up around a ton

49:36

of drug addicts and alcoholics

49:38

a ton . And

49:41

I only learned this year that there

49:43

are , you know , support

49:45

groups for children of alcohol

49:48

and drug abusers . I thought it was just groups

49:50

for those doing it

49:52

. So it's called

49:54

ACA , if you're interested adult

49:57

children of alcoholic and

50:01

other you know disorders

50:03

, parents

50:05

, basically . But it's ACA . But

50:09

anyway , there

50:11

was this one time that my aunt who

50:14

passed from an overdose , she brought

50:16

me back some McDonald's and

50:21

she's like here , here's your food

50:23

. And I grabbed the bag and I go

50:25

to reach my little hand in there . I'm like nine , ten

50:28

maybe , or on there , and I

50:31

stop and I pull my hand back and I

50:33

look in the bag First because

50:35

I'm like , oh wait , you know , I don't know , some , I don't

50:37

know what it was divine intervention , my spirit

50:39

guys , whatever it was , I appreciate it now

50:41

looking there and there was an

50:43

exposed needle in there and

50:47

you know they were I don't know the

50:49

difference doing crack , heroine , but whichever

50:52

one you shoot up , that's that was

50:54

there . The people around me , I guess that was their drug

50:56

of choice and I Don't

50:58

know if it was used , prepared

51:00

to be used , I don't know . But whatever

51:03

, whatever it could have poked

51:05

me , like it was , there was no

51:07

cap on it , it was just there and

51:10

she was probably high and not

51:13

being careful and who

51:15

knows , who knows . But I

51:17

think I just screamed and threw away the bag and my

51:19

grandma was like what's going on ? And I told her

51:21

and , and she yelled at her put her out

51:24

and something . You know , I don't

51:26

know something crazy like that . But I

51:28

Didn't truly understand what it was

51:31

until Teen

51:35

years and by that time I just tried to block

51:37

it out because it was like Like

51:39

what the heck , you know ? Like just

51:41

all of that is just like a mess , like I never

51:44

want to do this to myself , I never want to use drugs

51:46

. They made absolute , absolute pools

51:48

of themselves , like it was from from

51:50

nodding out just to

51:53

to running around the house booty

51:55

naked to you

51:57

know , almost burning the house down because

51:59

they were in a nod and

52:01

forgot that the stove was on . You know , I'm saying

52:03

like , and as a child I

52:06

used to yeah , marcel's , you

52:08

know , making make it a face over here , because

52:10

I think you probably have some , some

52:12

stories similar to that , right ?

52:14

Yeah , I think so I

52:16

don't know if alcoholism

52:19

was in fact the reason why

52:21

, but my grandmother

52:23

house burned down from

52:25

one of my aunts leaving the stove

52:28

on and she was

52:30

an alcoholic , and

52:33

that , like the house , literally burned

52:35

to a crisp . So

52:37

yeah , that

52:39

is an experience of mine that

52:42

at the time had no idea

52:45

, but Every you know

52:47

, my mother , my sister , those that knew

52:49

her , that's what , that's

52:51

what they say , that they say that's the reason

52:53

was was the alcohol .

52:57

Yeah , that's , that's so sad , because

52:59

, you know , imagine somebody

53:01

got trapped inside . Oh , I mean , just don't

53:04

imagine , but it's just , it's just

53:06

very unfortunate that you

53:08

know , it's another kind of I feel like

53:10

us , as black people , we joke things

53:12

away to make it more palatable . You

53:15

know , it's like everybody got a cracker

53:17

uncle , or everybody got a drunk auntie

53:19

and it's like , yeah

53:21

, that's sad , it's that's , that's

53:23

, that's terrible . You know , like we come

53:26

from that era , the , I guess the cracker

53:28

or whatever , where , yeah

53:30

, like all of our parents , grandparents

53:33

, or maybe maybe grandparents

53:35

more in my age , for our generation

53:37

, were were users . You

53:39

know , I'm saying cuz that was the the

53:41

80s , right , wasn't that the cracker ?

53:44

and yeah , yeah that's what everybody

53:46

says . But the crazy part about that

53:48

was I was oblivious the

53:50

whole time , not knowing that my father Was

53:53

, was on heroin and everything . At

53:55

that time , when I was young , my

53:58

mother and my sister would always tell

54:00

me that he was on

54:02

drugs and I , you know , besides , the

54:05

one time I just was , I just

54:07

explained when I found something I

54:10

thought we was all he ever did , and

54:12

they were always telling me like , boy

54:14

, are we telling you if your father used to fool

54:16

around with with different drugs

54:18

? so , while

54:22

Capri is saying that people

54:24

were like , everybody got one of those , I'm

54:27

thinking like well , that

54:29

while it may be true , like I couldn't

54:31

imagine if one of my parents was

54:33

Doing something like that and it

54:36

was in fact going on the entire time

54:38

. So , yeah , I mean

54:40

it's

54:42

a trick how it's one thing

54:44

to hear about us , it's another thing when

54:46

it hits home and when it's like that close

54:49

to you and you

54:51

just never had any clue and

54:53

almost Wonder why

54:56

certain things I think they call it like

54:58

an addictive Personality

55:01

or an addictive manner or whatnot

55:03

to where it's

55:05

that one thing that's just too much of a good

55:07

thing . I think that's what had me kind

55:10

of like Really hooked on smoking

55:12

at one . One part of it was habit

55:14

, but another thing was like it

55:16

was just so much of a good thing it just became

55:19

a part of my life , like Whatever

55:22

I was doing , it needed to be around . If

55:24

I'm enjoying myself , I needed to smoke

55:26

. If I was upset , I should probably

55:29

smoke and it

55:32

it seemed like something that wasn't

55:34

that big of a deal . But

55:36

talking about abuse and

55:38

addiction , again , just stand on that topic

55:41

. Um , addiction

55:44

isn't you know ? It's not spelled

55:46

out for you , and I think when

55:48

you're , when you are at the

55:50

point where you are addicted , you're under

55:52

the belief that you're not , and

55:55

you're also under the belief that you have more control

55:57

over it . Then you think when in fact

55:59

, it has way more control over you than

56:01

you do of it .

56:04

Yeah , that's true . That's

56:07

the perfect segue into

56:09

my next question . I mentioned

56:11

addictive behaviors or no

56:16

addictive personality or whatever

56:18

. So there

56:21

is this research center

56:23

called learn genetics in Utah and

56:25

they claim that 40 to 60% Of

56:27

addiction risk is based on genetics

56:29

. Do you agree or

56:31

disagree ?

56:34

I , there's no way I couldn't agree

56:36

with that again . Um , not

56:39

knowing , not knowing that my father

56:42

was addicted to anything . But

56:44

when I found out it seemed like

56:46

everything else just made sense . As

56:48

far as why it was so

56:51

easy . It seemed like to

56:53

become addicted to smoking weed because

56:55

, I mean , you

56:57

know , a lot of people in

56:59

the past used to Equate

57:02

weed with dope in the 80s

57:04

. My mom to this day still

57:06

will call weed dope . But

57:08

our era , compared

57:11

to everything else people dealing with with

57:13

these opiates and everything else , it's like

57:16

weed is nothing . But If

57:19

you don't really know what

57:21

is in it and you

57:23

can't just stop , you

57:26

got to really ask yourself why

57:28

not ? And Then if

57:31

you are able to

57:33

honestly say that you can't stop

57:35

, that means you're addicted .

57:39

Yeah , I agree , I definitely

57:41

feel , especially now

57:43

, you know , in my older

57:46

years I guess that

57:48

there isn't a genetic component

57:50

my aunt and I would

57:52

always say , like man , we're

57:55

so happy that you know , we

57:57

turned out different , you know we

57:59

didn't have any issues

58:01

or any desires to

58:03

do drugs and we're not alcoholics

58:06

and ABCDFG . But

58:08

then when I for me , when

58:10

I kind of looked at my life , I'm

58:13

like , yeah , I feel like I supplemented

58:15

it with other things , Like I used

58:17

to shop a lot , like

58:19

a lot . You know , I

58:22

needed to have every like . When the , when

58:24

the metros came out , I needed every . Every

58:26

new metro that came out , I had it , every single

58:28

one . I had it , I needed it , I

58:30

needed to . I was what

58:34

do you call it ? Trading in my cars and it was

58:36

like I want that another , I want I need

58:38

something different , I need something different

58:40

. It was always the need for something

58:42

. I needed to do it . It was just . It was just habit

58:45

, habit , habit . And so

58:48

I feel like it shows up addictive

58:51

behavior just because I wasn't a drug addict

58:53

or just because I or I'm not a drug

58:55

addict and wasn't an alcoholic and not

58:57

an alcoholic . The addictive behaviors

59:00

show up elsewhere . So

59:03

I definitely agree that

59:05

there there's definitely that

59:08

component . We're

59:12

almost to the end here , so our next

59:14

question Do you think

59:16

and I think you shed some light on this already

59:19

with the discovery of your father and the things you shared

59:21

about yourself and your father's relationship

59:23

, and you know your experiences with abuse

59:25

Do you think it's possible

59:27

to forgive someone who suffered

59:30

from addiction or abuse

59:32

you in your past ?

59:36

I mean , it's always possible

59:39

to forgive somebody , but

59:42

as far as it

59:44

happening , I

59:47

can't . I can't speak for anybody but

59:50

myself . It took me

59:52

a while to forgive

59:54

my father for the

59:56

abuse that I remember and

1:00:00

it

1:00:03

it wasn't easy

1:00:05

, but for

1:00:07

me , I think I just

1:00:09

realized that for

1:00:13

one , I'm telling me about his

1:00:15

upbringing and his exposure

1:00:17

and his experiences and

1:00:20

the lack of love

1:00:23

that he got from

1:00:25

his parents is the reason

1:00:28

why I only got so much

1:00:30

love and

1:00:33

or the abuse from him . Saying

1:00:36

all that , to say that , while

1:00:39

you might not want to forgive the person

1:00:42

, you

1:00:44

still have to remind

1:00:48

yourself of

1:00:51

what they didn't know versus

1:00:54

what you do know now

1:00:56

. So if your

1:00:59

parents didn't

1:01:02

have the best example

1:01:04

of good parents from

1:01:06

their mother and father , then

1:01:09

there's , you

1:01:11

can expect them to just have

1:01:13

a game plan or a tool , a

1:01:16

toolbox of things

1:01:20

, or examples of

1:01:23

leadership or love

1:01:27

or whatever you would expect from

1:01:29

quote unquote good parents . And

1:01:32

I think that's what helped me

1:01:34

come to the realization

1:01:37

that it's not really his

1:01:40

fault , because he only

1:01:42

knew so much . And

1:01:45

again he told me that his

1:01:47

father did the same thing to

1:01:50

him that he was doing to me

1:01:52

. So if

1:01:54

he never even got even a hug

1:01:56

from his father . It's probably

1:01:58

not the first thing that comes to his mind

1:02:01

when when he

1:02:03

is thinking about his son . So

1:02:07

, on the yeah , just going back to the forgiving

1:02:09

part , for

1:02:12

me it wasn't easy , but

1:02:14

I think it's always possible . It's

1:02:17

just a matter of what you're willing to accept

1:02:21

, meaning as far as accept

1:02:23

just understanding

1:02:26

, and then moving

1:02:30

forward instead of staying stuck

1:02:33

on what

1:02:35

happened in the past .

1:02:38

Yeah , I would agree . I

1:02:42

definitely agree , especially

1:02:45

if the person that you need to forgive

1:02:48

is willing to

1:02:50

help you through the

1:02:53

processing and the healing of forgiving

1:02:57

them . And

1:02:59

you know it's helpful to

1:03:02

have an understanding right of you

1:03:04

mentioned it a little bit too of like where

1:03:07

they came from . Because if

1:03:09

they come from their own trauma , like

1:03:11

most of I mean , if you

1:03:13

like , if you're in my generation , in

1:03:15

the 80s , or a generation above

1:03:18

me and a generation below me , it's

1:03:20

likely that your parents came from

1:03:22

a history of trauma , and so having

1:03:24

an understanding of that , sharing stories

1:03:27

, sharing experiences

1:03:29

, kind of helps ease

1:03:32

some of that hurt , I think , in

1:03:34

my personal opinion . And

1:03:38

so , and if that person isn't ready

1:03:40

to go with you on that journey , because

1:03:42

they can't acknowledge what they did

1:03:44

to you , then you

1:03:46

have to find ways , through therapy

1:03:48

and through you

1:03:50

know , self analysis and

1:03:53

self care practices

1:03:55

, to forgive

1:03:57

them . Without that , my dad

1:04:00

has passed on and

1:04:03

I can't get a sorry , I can't

1:04:06

get an explanation , I can't

1:04:08

get a conversation about the

1:04:10

abuse that I went through , and so

1:04:12

I've had to work endlessly

1:04:16

, and I'm still working , to get

1:04:18

through that and to forgive without

1:04:22

him , his presence , and

1:04:25

that's hard , it's a very , very hard journey

1:04:27

, but it's one that must be

1:04:29

taken , because it's not going to do me any good

1:04:31

to carry the anger , to carry the rage

1:04:34

, to carry the the

1:04:37

regret . You know all the stuff that comes

1:04:39

with it . So it's definitely possible

1:04:42

, with or without the person's presence

1:04:44

. And so

1:04:47

our final question for this episode

1:04:49

is

1:04:51

if you

1:04:53

look back at your life and

1:04:56

you remove the abuse , you remove

1:04:58

the neglect , you remove the

1:05:01

addiction , the addiction that you

1:05:03

did experience

1:05:05

or you know within yourself or with

1:05:07

others around you , you remove the bullying , say

1:05:10

you had a healthy , supportive

1:05:13

, normal

1:05:15

, quote , unquote life . How

1:05:18

different , if you can fathom that

1:05:20

, how different do you think your life would be ?

1:05:26

I don't even think I know . I

1:05:29

think for one it would be easier

1:05:32

to quote unquote be myself

1:05:34

, because I felt like that was one part

1:05:36

that I just never really

1:05:38

knew the answer to or knew

1:05:41

who I

1:05:43

was . So that's

1:05:46

one thing , and I think

1:05:49

it would . I

1:05:51

would be more

1:05:54

I

1:05:56

don't know accepting or

1:05:58

like I wouldn't be sold , I wouldn't

1:06:00

have been so defensive and

1:06:02

ready to kind of clap

1:06:04

back or just you know , ready

1:06:07

for somebody to trigger me so I could respond

1:06:10

with that same energy . So

1:06:14

, yeah , those are the first two things that come to mind

1:06:17

. But on

1:06:20

the flip side of that is like I

1:06:23

feel that those

1:06:25

experiences made me more aware

1:06:27

of , like

1:06:30

, who I am now and why I'm able

1:06:32

to identify other

1:06:35

people's energy or where that energy

1:06:37

comes from , how I mentioned

1:06:40

, like , hurt people , hurt people . Or when it

1:06:42

comes to my father and his parenting

1:06:44

, due to the parenting

1:06:47

he received , like you

1:06:49

only know what you know . You know

1:06:51

you don't know what you

1:06:53

never knew . So if he never

1:06:55

knew how to be

1:06:59

a good parent , or however you

1:07:01

want to word that , you can expect

1:07:03

that and I think from

1:07:05

all the experiences I have from childhood

1:07:07

up until now , I'm just able

1:07:10

to identify

1:07:12

a lot more than I probably

1:07:14

would have been able to if I didn't experience

1:07:17

it .

1:07:20

Yeah , man , definitely . I

1:07:24

think for me I

1:07:28

would be , and

1:07:31

have been , a lot less angry . I'd

1:07:36

be a lot more open

1:07:38

to new experiences and

1:07:40

new relationships . I

1:07:43

wouldn't have the trust issues that

1:07:45

I have and had

1:07:47

. It would

1:07:49

just be different . But

1:07:52

all of your experiences

1:07:54

lead you , to lead

1:07:57

you to somewhere , and I agree

1:07:59

with you . I wouldn't be the

1:08:01

person that I am , and I think that I was given

1:08:03

my story for a reason , and

1:08:08

, although it's been a very long journey , I'm

1:08:11

very proud of where I've come

1:08:14

, how far I've come from

1:08:17

where I started , and

1:08:20

so I think that I

1:08:23

can't live with regrets . The

1:08:26

things that happened to me happened . I cannot

1:08:28

take that away . It's just

1:08:32

a journey of healing forward and

1:08:34

a journey of forgiveness and a journey

1:08:36

of just new life

1:08:38

and creating new habits . And

1:08:42

, yeah , just

1:08:44

go forward . So

1:08:46

that wraps up our episode

1:08:49

for today . Marcel

1:08:52

, my honey , my love , thank

1:08:54

you for being here with us . I

1:08:57

appreciate your vulnerability

1:08:59

as a black man

1:09:02

, coming on and being authentic and being

1:09:04

honest , and

1:09:07

you will be back because

1:09:09

we have more lined up to

1:09:12

pull you in here . And

1:09:14

so , before we close out , do you have

1:09:16

any last thoughts you want to share ?

1:09:21

No , I will say just again everybody

1:09:26

just pay attention to

1:09:29

, like

1:09:31

I mentioned earlier , those that are doing

1:09:34

favors and

1:09:37

kind of use it against you . Just

1:09:40

keep your eyes open . You're

1:09:43

definitely not alone in

1:09:45

whatever

1:09:48

you went through in the past , especially

1:09:50

with the upbringing . Like I said , if you were born

1:09:52

in the 80s , I

1:09:54

was born in 88 . We

1:09:56

probably have a lot of similar stories

1:09:59

. So when you hear this

1:10:01

, if anything , comment

1:10:03

and let us know that you experienced

1:10:06

the same thing and maybe let us know what

1:10:08

else you want to talk about , Because I

1:10:11

know I'm not alone in this .

1:10:12

That's my line . You just stole it , thank you

1:10:15

.

1:10:15

Okay , let's

1:10:18

talk later about that , all right .

1:10:21

Thank you for listening in and

1:10:24

joining us and staying tuned on this

1:10:26

journey . We appreciate you . As

1:10:28

Marcel said , leave a comment

1:10:31

, subscribe . Keep a lookout for following

1:10:33

episodes dropping every Wednesday

1:10:35

. Be kind to one

1:10:37

another , take care , be loved

1:10:40

Peace .