0:09

When I notice I'm

0:09

distracting myself is where I

0:12

know that I'm disconnecting from

0:12

myself. And now I look back and

0:17

I'm almost heartbroken because

0:17

I'm like, what that girl was

0:21

going through, to just not be

0:21

able to sit with herself.

0:24

Sometimes we were kind

0:24

of presented with this image of

0:26

self care that they're really

0:26

big grand gestures, but actually

0:29

they can just be really small

0:29

things but something that brings

0:33

you comfort.

0:34

Mental health when it

0:34

comes down to it. It is largely

0:37

how you feel about yourself. And

0:37

once you have that steady

0:41

foundation, you have a concrete

0:41

base that you can come back to

0:45

and know you're going to be

0:45

absolutely fine.

0:47

Hi, Welcome to Let's

0:47

Talk: Mental Health. While we

0:56

get together with different

0:56

people and experts to chat about

0:59

mental health. We all have

0:59

mental health and we can all

1:03

experience mental health

1:03

problems. So on this podcast, we

1:07

explore the topics that can

1:07

affect how we think and feel.

1:11

I'm your host Bethan Buswell,

1:11

we'd love to hear what you think

1:14

of the podcast. Please do

1:14

subscribe, like, share and

1:17

comment wherever you get your

1:17

podcasts. Today, we're talking

1:22

about how the relationships with

1:22

ourselves can help or harm our

1:25

mental health, and tips on ways

1:25

to build a healthy relationship

1:29

with you. Here at the Mental

1:29

Health Foundation, we believe

1:33

that investing in healthy

1:33

relationships is important for

1:36

our mental health, and that the

1:36

best place to start is with the

1:39

relationship with you. But we

1:39

also know that we aren't always

1:43

given the tools, education or

1:43

environments in which we can

1:46

learn how to do this or where

1:46

our relationships with ourselves

1:49

can flourish. However, it is

1:49

never too late to start taking

1:53

those steps to get to know you.

1:53

Treat yourself kindly and take

1:57

time to do the things you enjoy

1:57

to protect your mental health.

2:01

So we'll be exploring this and

2:01

more in today's episode. You'll

2:06

be hearing from Anna Archer, who

2:06

is a fitness influencer, who

2:10

shared the ups and downs of her

2:10

relationship with herself with

2:13

her followers. And then next

2:13

you'll hear from Gemma and Quinn

2:16

who are part of the Mental

2:16

Health Foundation Young Leaders.

2:19

They'll share their own personal

2:19

stories about investing in the

2:21

relationships with themselves to

2:21

help their mental health. And

2:24

lastly, you'll hear from Sophie

2:24

Peterman, Programmes Coordinator

2:28

at the Mental Health Foundation,

2:28

who will be telling us about why

2:31

all of these things really

2:31

matter. This podcast is brought

2:36

to you by the Mental Health

2:36

Foundation. It is a space for

2:39

our guests to discuss their

2:39

personal experience and express

2:42

their opinions. Our guests

2:42

opinions are their own and are

2:46

not an official stance with the

2:46

Mental Health Foundation. If

2:49

you'd like to join the

2:49

conversation, online tag us at

2:52

mental health on Twitter, or at

2:52

mental health foundation on

2:55

Instagram, and you can also find

2:55

us on Facebook and LinkedIn. And

3:03

now I'm joined by Anna Archer.

3:03

Anna is a 21 year old who is a

3:07

successful content creator,

3:07

podcaster and athlete who

3:10

focuses on fitness, lifestyle

3:10

and mental health. She has just

3:14

completed the London Marathon

3:14

for the Foundation. The reason

3:18

that she chose to take on such a

3:18

tremendous challenge and raise

3:20

money for us is very personal.

3:20

Her mental health has had a

3:24

journey of its own, which she

3:24

talks openly about on a variety

3:27

of different social platforms,

3:27

and her podcast. She chats about

3:32

all areas of her life, eating

3:32

disorders, grief, relationships,

3:35

social media, and more. And

3:35

we're really lucky that she's

3:39

Mental Health podcast today. So

3:43

thank you for joining us, Anna.

3:44

Oh my gosh, thank you.

3:44

This is really exciting. Yeah,

3:47

it's brilliant to have

3:47

you here today. And today, we're

3:51

talking all about the

3:51

relationship with yourself,

3:53

which I know you talk so openly

3:53

to all of your followers about.

3:59

So how has your relationship

3:59

with yourself changed over time?

4:05

So dramatically? Like I

4:05

can't explain. I think the main

4:12

switch was a large section of

4:12

let's say when I was a teenager,

4:20

it was very outward, I was

4:20

people pleasing. I was dressing

4:24

for other people, I was changing

4:24

my body for other people.

4:27

Everything was so externally

4:27

driven... everything. So my

4:32

sense of self was really lost

4:32

because I was doing nothing

4:37

essentially for myself. And then

4:37

going into where I am now. I am

4:44

my number one priority. And in

4:44

not a typical selfish way that

4:49

parents like to say like oh,

4:49

you're being selfish, but yes, I

4:52

am my number one priority and

4:52

everything goes inward. I listen

4:56

to my intuition. I listen to how

4:56

am I doing what does this

5:01

situation feel like for me? Does

5:01

this person feel good? Does this

5:06

relationship feel good? And I

5:06

don't have to say yes to

5:09

everybody. I can have a voice.

5:09

So it has dramatically changed.

5:15

And I like I'm so glad that this

5:15

is the topic of today. Because I

5:19

think it's literally the number

5:19

one thing, when you have that

5:23

sense of self, and you're so

5:23

aligned with it. Does your

5:26

mental health improve?

5:27

Yeah, it's, it's

5:27

incredible to hear how far I

5:31

guess your journey has gone.

5:31

Because it resonates so much. We

5:36

spoke to two young people

5:36

earlier, and Quinn and Gemma,

5:41

and they were saying initially,

5:41

when you've not even got that

5:43

concept of that you it can come

5:43

out in lots of different ways,

5:47

like you were saying. And I

5:47

remember for myself, when I was

5:51

in a work environment that was

5:51

quite focused on how you looked

5:54

or stereotypes of how you

5:54

looked. That was a lot of where

5:58

my identity went into maybe what

5:58

size I was, how I looked, hair

6:03

color, all that kind of thing.

6:03

And hearing how you've gone

6:07

along with your journey in this,

6:07

I think a lot of people will

6:10

probably resonate from, you

6:10

know, where do you even start?

6:15

You know, if you if you don't

6:15

know, where do you even begin

6:19

with that relationship with yourself?

6:21

Yeah, completely, and what

6:21

you said about that, it comes

6:26

out in different ways. And I was

6:26

so unaware, yeah you're so

6:31

unaware, at the time, that you

6:31

don't have a sense of self, and

6:34

that your your mental health is

6:34

bad. You just, you know, even if

6:39

you have depression, you don't

6:39

really know what's going on,

6:41

what's triggering it, what all

6:41

that stuff. I went through an

6:44

eating disorder, anxiety, so

6:44

much stuff, and I really feel

6:51

that you have to go into really

6:51

into the bad days into the bad

6:54

weeks and months, and years. So

6:54

when you come out of it, are you

6:59

able to reflect and it's almost

6:59

like the beauty and not the

7:03

beauty of it, because you can

7:03

gain advice 100%. But you really

7:08

have to let yourself go into

7:08

your bad day and learn it for

7:11

yourself. Yeah. Which I think

7:11

is, is something that I've

7:15

really clocked on. Because

7:15

sometimes I give myself a harsh

7:17

time because oh, I should have

7:17

known this when I was younger.

7:20

Well, I couldn't have and to

7:20

know that we're always trying

7:22

our best is so important.

7:25

Has there been a time

7:25

where you feel like you

7:27

abandoned your relationship with

7:27

yourself?

7:30

Yeah, I have had years of

7:30

if I look back at it now where I

7:37

am now I would say you abandoned

7:37

yourself. But the true true, I

7:41

say lowest moments, I would say

7:41

just before I went into recovery

7:45

for an eating disorder, I can't

7:45

even explain the level of

7:52

distraction that I had to put

7:52

myself through, so that I

7:56

couldn't sit with myself like I

7:56

couldn't even have two seconds

7:58

of myself. And you can now look

7:58

back. And I'm almost heartbroken

8:03

because I'm like what that girl

8:03

was going through, to just not

8:07

be able to sit with herself. At

8:07

this point. It was actually so

8:11

hard because this was actually

8:11

my rising point in my social

8:15

media career. I was growing by

8:15

30,000 followers a month. And

8:21

this was like the six month

8:21

point, I think, or the fifth

8:24

month point, I was earning the

8:24

most money I had ever seen in

8:29

And I imagine as well,

8:29

so many of our listeners, again,

8:29

that month. would connect with what you've

8:33

been through, but also can't

8:35

imagine what the added element

8:35

of it being so public does as

8:40

well. For Mental Health

8:40

Awareness Week in 2019, we

8:44

focused on body image. And quite

8:44

a lot of the people that we

8:48

spoke about, spoke about what

8:48

social media can do when feeling

8:53

so seen all the time. And did

8:53

that kind of add to it?

8:57

Definitely I I think

8:57

what we need to know is our

9:02

mental health should be our

9:02

priority. And I've I think I did

9:06

it in a place of fear to start

9:06

with the day that I went into

9:09

recovery. I put on my social

9:09

media, I will not be on her for

9:12

weeks and I ended up having six

9:12

weeks off. So I went into this

9:16

hibernation mode. I wore the

9:16

baggy clothes so nobody could

9:19

see I completely came off social

9:19

media so nobody had to see my

9:22

body and then it came to a point

9:22

of me having to accept okay,

9:25

this is a new body and then it

9:25

was actually a pressure of

9:29

social media is my job. I have

9:29

contracts. Yeah. I have monthly

9:32

deliverables that this is my

9:32

income and this is an I also had

9:37

a massive fear of if I didn't

9:37

post I would lose my followings

9:40

which I did slightly. Yeah. And

9:40

that was a whole nother journey

9:44

of not attaching myself worth to

9:44

followers. And then going into I

9:48

would actually say this summer,

9:48

only this summer. That's a year

9:52

and a half and I had stages

9:52

where I did show my body more

9:54

normally in summer when I felt

9:54

more confident, but it was only

9:58

until I've done the real therapy

9:58

work, the heavy hardcore stuff

10:03

the self love stuff. Yeah. Am I

10:03

able to be unapologetically

10:08

myself. And knowing that I don't

10:08

have to show my body to social

10:13

media, but knowing I don't have

10:13

to hide and find that balance of

10:16

posting when I want to? Yeah.

10:16

And that's where I found the

10:19

balance.

10:21

So you've spoken a lot

10:21

about what happened before you

10:24

kind of went into recovery and

10:24

how it was kind of coming out.

10:27

But could you go into that in a

10:27

little bit more detail for our

10:32

listeners of what did it look

10:32

like? Or does it look like still

10:36

sometimes to be detached from

10:36

your relationship with yourself?

10:40

I think for me, there is

10:40

it's distraction, when I notice

10:46

I'm distracting myself is where

10:46

I know that I'm disconnecting

10:52

from myself. So before it would

10:52

be weeks, months of distraction

10:58

every day, whether it was over

10:58

exercising, whether that was

11:00

toxic productivity, whether that

11:00

was scrolling on my phone all

11:03

day, it would be very large

11:03

moments of time. They still

11:09

happen, but 10 minutes, an hour,

11:09

sometimes four hours. But the

11:15

difference is I'm able to

11:15

notice. So like, let's give a

11:19

real raw example. Last night, I

11:19

was slightly triggered into

11:22

something. And I didn't realise

11:22

at the time, but I started

11:25

scrolling my phone. And it was

11:25

about two and a half hours

11:29

later. And it's when you're,

11:29

you're not scrolling for fun,

11:32

but like you're scrolling and

11:32

you can't stop and I call it

11:34

autopilot scroll. That's what I

11:34

name it. I don't know whether

11:37

it's a real thing. And for me,

11:37

it's a really big indication

11:40

that I'm not connected with

11:40

myself. And it's really, this is

11:45

like one of the things I've really learned, it's really hard to get off. And sometimes all I

11:47

can do is literally turn my

11:52

phone off and just not even

11:52

move. In that moment. Try to

11:56

take a deep breath, or try to

11:56

like autopilot, go into the

11:59

bathroom, or just move your

11:59

state, maybe try put some music

12:02

on. But that state of

12:02

distraction is a really big

12:05

indication that I'm

12:05

disconnecting with myself. And

12:11

yeah, there's, I think we'll

12:11

talk about it later. But there's

12:13

so many ways that you can

12:13

connect back with yourself. And

12:15

that is the difference in

12:15

whether it lasts a week or

12:18

whether it lasts an hour.

12:19

Is there anything else

12:19

that you'd love to, I guess

12:21

share with our listeners that

12:21

has genuinely helped you -

12:26

something you did something, I

12:26

guess you said to yourself

12:29

that's really helped you when

12:29

you're feeling less connected,

12:31

and everything feels a little

12:31

bit gloomy?

12:34

The thing that has helped

12:34

me the absolute most in this

12:37

journey, which I think everybody

12:37

needs, is therapy. We act so

12:43

much from our heart and a child,

12:43

that when we go back, we go into

12:48

therapy and we understand what

12:48

actually caused us to struggle.

12:53

And why we do certain things,

12:53

why we people please why we

12:57

can't speak up and why we avoid

12:57

conflict and why we thought we

13:00

need to change our body, we're

13:00

able to notice it and pull the

13:04

two situations apart. Okay, this

13:04

present moment of my job

13:08

situation has actually got less

13:08

anxiety and stress attached to

13:13

it and a lot more attached to

13:13

when I felt pressured by my

13:17

parents, so you're able to split

13:17

it up. And then yeah, so I just

13:21

feel like therapy is such an

13:21

amazing thing. And I think one

13:24

thing to understand is, if

13:24

you're struggling, if you're

13:26

struggling mentally, you most

13:26

likely need therapy, even if you

13:30

haven't been through a quote

13:30

unquote, traumatic thing. And I

13:33

think so many people think I've,

13:33

I've spoken to some of my

13:36

followers, and they're like, but

13:36

I haven't had... my parents are

13:40

still together and we have money

13:40

and like I lived in a big house

13:43

and like that doesn't matter. A

13:43

child feels the way they need to

13:48

feel like if you felt abandoned

13:48

as a child, if your mum walked

13:52

out while you were crying,

13:52

that's how you felt, doesn't

13:54

matter if you didn't have a

13:54

death of a parent. And I guess

13:58

that's hard to get through

13:58

sometimes because most of the

14:00

people that are speaking about

14:00

mental health have been through

14:02

a lot like for example me. Like

14:02

rejection from my father then

14:07

lost my father at 17. Sexual

14:07

Abuse, there's been lots of

14:13

different things. So yes, quote,

14:13

unquote, I have that Complex

14:16

PTSD, and I'm able to share a

14:16

lot of the things that helped me

14:20

but for the people that don't

14:20

feel like they've had anything

14:24

wrong with them in their

14:24

childhood. If you're struggling,

14:26

if you've gone through an eating disorder, if you have depression, if you just have a

14:28

lack of self worth - therapy

14:32

will help you

14:33

if our listeners are

14:33

kind of feeling more in that

14:37

disconnected and kind of not not

14:37

feeling that great about the

14:42

relationship with themselves.

14:42

What What would it feel like for

14:46

them, how could they recognise

14:46

when the relationship with

14:49

themselves is better? So what

14:49

what does it feel like to you

14:54

when you are fully connected to

14:54

you?

14:57

I felt like this is such a

14:57

lovely question because I've

15:00

done almost like two years of,

15:00

let's say the work on yourself.

15:04

But the last six months now, I'd

15:04

say four months. And then the

15:09

last month was like, exponential

15:09

growth that I'm now at this

15:14

point where like, I'm so ready

15:14

to answer this question. And the

15:18

first thing is, being able to

15:18

love the present moment, I walk

15:23

down to my local coffee shop

15:23

with my headphones on listening

15:25

to music, literally dancing

15:25

through the street, not caring

15:28

what other people think. And

15:28

those moments of bliss. It is

15:32

what it's all about these

15:32

moments of going somewhere or,

15:36

or doing nothing like being able

15:36

to just lie down and rest. Being

15:41

able to romanticise moments, is

15:41

something like, I used to try

15:46

get through my days, now I'm

15:46

ready for my day, I want to just

15:51

be in the day, I'm not trying to

15:51

think about next month. Or think

15:54

about what's, I'm so like I'm so

15:54

ready to be in the present now,

15:57

which something I definitely

15:57

couldn't used to do. The second

16:01

thing is being able to notice my

16:01

triggers and regulate myself out

16:06

of it. One thing that was one of

16:06

my things, was I couldn't

16:11

regulate myself. So if people

16:11

don't know what regulation

16:15

means, when you're in a

16:15

triggered state, whether that's

16:20

anxious, whether that's

16:20

distracting yourself, whatever.

16:25

That's a dysregulated state, and

16:25

to get yourself out of that,

16:29

regulating are forms of deep

16:29

breaths, for me dancing, for me

16:34

listening to music, shaking your

16:34

body, having a shower, doing

16:37

yoga, like there's lots of

16:37

different ways, and those things

16:40

bring us back to our self. And

16:40

I've, that's one of the things

16:46

it's like, you still get moments

16:46

of these bad ish times we like

16:51

to call it, whether you're lying

16:51

in bed, whether you're

16:53

frustrated with yourself, whether you're angry, like you don't feel amazingly 100% happy,

16:55

which is normal, is to be able

16:59

to notice what I'm in that

16:59

state. get myself out of it,

17:05

then assess what triggered me

17:05

into it. Kind of almost do a

17:10

like a mini healing session of

17:10

like, what do you need to do

17:12

next time? Yeah. Did you not

17:12

speak up about something to your

17:16

housemate? Right? You are

17:16

actually not even next time

17:19

because next time is not even a

17:19

thing when you got them now and

17:21

have a conversation with your

17:21

housemate. So it's like those

17:25

things. And now being in a

17:25

position, it's so beautiful to

17:30

be able to do that to myself to

17:30

have my own back to know that

17:34

I'm not afraid of going into the

17:34

bad days anymore. To the bad

17:37

moments. I don't even think it's

17:37

bad, but it's a very good way to

17:40

explain it. But like I'm not

17:40

scared going in next I know how

17:42

to get myself out of there

17:42

myself.

17:52

Now I'm joined by Gemma

17:52

and Quinn, who are part of the

17:56

Mental Health Foundation Young

17:56

Leaders, the Young Leaders in

17:59

formed the Foundation's work

17:59

with families, children and

18:03

young people. And today, Gemma

18:03

and Quinn are going to talk to

18:06

you about their own relationship

18:06

with themselves. So Hi, Gemma

18:09

and Quinn, and thank you for

18:09

joining us today. And so just

18:14

wanted to start with what might

18:14

feel like quite an obvious

18:18

question, but some of our

18:18

listeners might not have thought

18:20

of themselves. But what does it

18:20

mean to have a relationship with

18:24

yourself? What does that mean to

18:24

each of you?

18:29

I think it's just being

18:29

comfortable in your own company

18:31

and having a safe and enjoyable

18:31

headspace that you can be in

18:35

without being scared or upset or

18:35

anything. And knowing and

18:40

understanding your limits and

18:40

your boundaries. So you know how

18:44

to keep them and how and where

18:44

to put them in place. And just

18:48

being happy and confident with

18:48

the person you are and the body

18:52

you're in and knowing who you

18:52

are as a person. So what you

18:55

like what you dislike, what you

18:55

want in life, what your

18:58

priorities are, things like that.

19:00

I believe that it's about

19:00

the way you treat yourself. It's

19:03

connected to the relationships

19:03

you have with others, the way

19:06

you treat the things around you.

19:06

It's the way you think about

19:09

yourself and whether you can be

19:09

patient if you made a mistake.

19:12

Or if you can stand to be around

19:12

yourself, whether you can look

19:14

at old photos and smile, whether

19:14

you can look at the mirror and

19:17

be happy from what you see on

19:17

the inside because no one knows

19:20

you better than yourself.

19:22

Thanks that's really

19:22

lovely. And how how do you build

19:28

a healthy with relationship with

19:28

yourself what goes into building

19:32

a healthy relationship?

19:34

The way to build a healthy relationship with yourself will vary from person

19:36

to person. There's many

19:39

techniques and doing so. Some

19:39

people use prompts some people

19:42

like journaling some people just

19:42

by writing it down. But the main

19:45

thing is that you want to be

19:45

treating yourself positively.

19:48

What I try and do is what I like

19:48

to call the loopback system.

19:51

This is when you do or think

19:51

something that's unproductive

19:55

and then you're able to stop

19:55

yourself and review the actual

19:57

thought. How did it make you

19:57

feel? how to make others feel?

20:01

what was the main outcome? and

20:01

then you learn from it and can

20:04

change your action so they

20:04

benefit you. The main thing is

20:07

to be able to stop yourself and

20:07

think clearly, you should able

20:10

to rewire your thinking in a

20:10

constructive way.

20:14

I think just having those

20:14

boundaries I mentioned being

20:16

both interpersonal and personal.

20:16

So taking time off when you need

20:20

it, saying no when you need it,

20:20

and doing only as much as you're

20:23

comfortable with, or being able

20:23

to step away from a situation

20:27

that you know is harming you.

20:27

And just generally taking care

20:31

of yourself, like your actual

20:31

body, you know, like health,

20:34

with the healthy, I don't like

20:34

the word healthy - healthy

20:38

foods. Exercise doesn't have to

20:38

be formal, like running or

20:42

anything, just enjoying life.

20:42

Working through any

20:47

insecurities, or anything you

20:47

might dislike about yourself,

20:51

because you need to like

20:51

yourself in order to have a good

20:53

relationship with yourself. And

20:53

just being able to spend time

20:57

with yourself and learn who you

20:57

are.

20:59

And I think that gives

20:59

our listeners lots of like,

21:02

really nice practical things

21:02

that they can do the loopback

21:05

system sounds great, and working

21:05

on those boundaries. So thank

21:09

you for coming with so many

21:09

great ideas. And for you with

21:16

the way that you I guess, talk

21:16

to yourself. Do either of you

21:21

notice the way you speak to

21:21

yourself, are you aware of

21:24

what's going on with your

21:24

internal monologue?

21:28

It really varies,

21:28

sometimes it will be completely

21:31

out of my mind. And I'd be

21:31

feeling really down about

21:33

something like if I was to not

21:33

do well to my standards on a

21:36

test, and I'll be end up beating

21:36

myself up, I'm like, Oh, I can't

21:40

be smarter, you studied so much

21:40

for nothing, then it's like late

21:44

at night, and it's like two

21:44

o'clock in the morning. And I'm

21:46

thinking to myself, wait a

21:46

minute, at least I'm trying, at

21:50

least I'm putting the effort in.

21:50

So it's me finally realising

21:54

that I'm speaking so negatively

21:54

about myself, which is unfair to

21:58

all my effort and my learning.

21:58

And to me, I like to think about

22:02

as if I'm speaking about a best

22:02

friend. I'd never say the sort

22:07

of things about them. So why

22:07

should I say about myself?

22:10

I notice quite very often

22:10

I'm quite an introspective

22:13

person. But it can be difficult

22:13

to change the way you think

22:18

about yourself, you kind of get

22:18

stuck in this habit or the cycle

22:21

of negative self talk. And it

22:21

can really be really difficult

22:25

to break yourself out of that.

22:27

And again, it's lots of,

22:27

I guess, really interesting ways

22:31

that our listeners can think

22:31

about the way that they they

22:35

talk to themselves like, it does

22:35

sound so simple to think about

22:39

speaking to yourself the way you

22:39

would have friends, but we can

22:41

get so stuck in our own minds

22:41

that we can start being mean to

22:45

ourselves before we've even

22:45

realised. So yeah, really,

22:48

really helpful things. And what

22:48

are boundaries you have put in

22:55

place to protect your

22:55

relationship with yourself?

22:59

Mostly habits, kind of

22:59

making sure you have a good

23:03

sleep schedule down having your

23:03

routines that you can rely on

23:06

and fall back on. To prioritise

23:06

yourself and your health, mental

23:10

and physical. Being able to

23:10

leave or extricate yourself from

23:15

toxic environments or friendship

23:15

issues or anything that's you

23:21

realise his hurt harming your

23:21

mental health. Or if you can't

23:24

do that, finding a way to make

23:24

yourself be able to be more

23:29

comfortable with it. I

23:29

personally I don't do something

23:34

like one my boundaries is that I

23:34

don't do intense or focus work

23:38

focused work after dinner time.

23:38

So I kind of let that be my wind

23:41

downtime to make sure that I

23:41

have to have a cutoff point. And

23:48

also just making sure your

23:48

prioritising your relationships

23:51

with other people. So I try to

23:51

reply to my friends as quickly

23:54

as I can and make sure I

23:54

maintain those relationships. So

23:57

it's not, I don't end up feeling

23:57

lonely or any kind of self like

24:05

low self esteem because I

24:05

haven't maintained any of the

24:09

friendships.

24:10

It isn't just about

24:10

having boundaries with yourself

24:14

is about having boundaries with

24:14

other people too. So if you

24:17

notice you have a negative

24:17

relationship with yourself,

24:20

you're probably going to end up

24:20

realising that this may reflect

24:23

in relationships you have with

24:23

others. So you need to sometimes

24:25

have really clear cut boundaries

24:25

with others to, for example,

24:29

other things you won't discuss

24:29

at all with other people, and

24:33

what you're going to do if they

24:33

keep on pushing it. toxic

24:35

relationships come in so many

24:35

shapes and forms but the simple

24:39

rule is, if you end up regularly

24:39

feeling more drained with them

24:42

and dread being with them, more

24:42

often than not, it's not healthy

24:45

and something to try to avoid.

24:45

And then similarly if I noticed

24:49

that I feel even worse talking

24:49

to myself, instead of being able

24:52

to feel content, then that is

24:52

when I know I need to stop, take

24:56

a moment and do something else.

24:56

Most of the time trying to argue

25:00

Myself, right after difficult

25:00

moment will result in disaster,

25:04

listening to music, doing

25:04

something distracting. And

25:06

coming back to it when I'm

25:06

feeling clearer tends to be

25:08

healthier for me, knowing when

25:08

to stop is incredibly important.

25:12

So again, really, really

25:12

interesting answers there's, I

25:17

really liked Gemma that there

25:17

was things that are really

25:20

specific boundaries to you, such

25:20

as like you're saying not doing

25:24

kind of the intense work after

25:24

dinner. And it hopefully can

25:29

show our listeners that

25:29

boundaries can be really

25:31

individual as well, we're all

25:31

different so our boundaries can

25:35

be different. So it's important

25:35

to get to know ourselves to find

25:38

out that and, again, Quinn what

25:38

you were saying with it kind of

25:41

almost feels like that listening

25:41

to your body. If you're around

25:44

someone and you're feeling

25:44

exhausted, then taking that time

25:48

to step away can be a good way

25:48

to invest in the relationship

25:50

with yourself. So have there

25:50

been times when you felt less

25:57

connected to yourself? And how

25:57

does that make you feel?

26:02

This is why knowing when

26:02

to stop is incredibly important.

26:06

Sometimes when things get

26:06

distressing it is easier to

26:09

distract yourself and not focus

26:09

on the problem. When you do

26:12

this, for far too long, the

26:12

problem only continues to grow

26:15

like it's a weight, you're

26:15

holding you back, you start to

26:18

begin to feel like numb, because

26:18

you get desensitised to this

26:23

problem like hanging over shadow

26:23

like your head. So like, it's

26:27

like you're mindlessly watching

26:27

the video in the background. It

26:29

makes me more numb and stressed.

26:29

And it is the spiral of feeling

26:33

worse and worse, and then you

26:33

end up distracting yourself

26:36

more. And then you feel even

26:36

more worse than when you began.

26:38

Personally, I've

26:38

struggled with food and that's

26:43

disrupted my relationship with

26:43

myself a lot. It's almost like

26:47

the lack of nutrients like get

26:47

makes a wall within my head

26:50

space. Your Person is made of

26:50

your mind and your body and you

26:56

can't have a good relationship

26:56

with one without having a good

26:59

relationship with the other. So

26:59

your relationship with your body

27:03

will always spiral back to your

27:03

relationship with your mind. And

27:08

it can make you feel so alone.

27:08

At the end of the day, all you

27:13

have is yourself. And if you

27:13

don't like that person, if you

27:17

don't like being with yourself,

27:17

then it's difficult. And like

27:24

Quinn said, when you're stressed

27:24

out it can you kind of forget

27:28

about yourself, you only focus

27:28

on your work or whatever is

27:32

stressing you out. And you kind

27:32

of lose perspective on

27:35

everything else in the world,

27:35

everything else in your life,

27:38

that it just becomes this one

27:38

sole thing that you're worried

27:41

about. And you get tunnel

27:41

vision. So that can disrupt the

27:45

relationship that you have with yourself as well.

27:47

And I think that leads

27:47

so nicely onto the next

27:50

question, which I think you've

27:50

like answered quite a bit of and

27:53

given us some good examples, but

27:53

But what do you do during those

27:56

times, you know, are the ways

27:56

that you bring yourself back to

28:01

you if you're feeling that

28:01

little bit less connected?

28:04

Something I've been

28:04

trying recently is doing what

28:07

all the self help people on the

28:07

internet try to tell you to do

28:11

meditation. Just noticing your

28:11

thoughts, noticing how you're

28:17

speaking to yourself and

28:17

detaching yourself from them.

28:22

Because you aren't your thoughts. You're not your feelings. You're you're the

28:23

person you are you at your your

28:28

moral beliefs and ethical

28:28

beliefs. Like I said,

28:31

meditation, making sure you've

28:31

got the constants in life. So

28:34

your sleep and your water,

28:34

you're drinking enough water,

28:37

things like that. And then if if

28:37

you're feeling detached from

28:42

yourself, because you're

28:42

overwhelmed or stressed, you've

28:45

got to take breaks, get yourself

28:45

some perspective, doing things

28:49

for pure enjoyment and not work.

28:49

So whatever you like doing, it'd

28:52

be drawing or music or movement

28:52

or anything like that. And just

28:57

making sure you prioritise and

28:57

make room for spending time with

29:02

people you love and making sure

29:02

you spend time with yourself and

29:06

with your thoughts. Like I said,

29:06

You got you aren't your

29:10

thoughts, but you've got to

29:10

learn to live with them. So

29:14

you've got to try and work with

29:14

them and try to make them easier

29:17

to bear.

29:18

What Gemma said about the

29:18

thoughts. It's similar to

29:21

intrusive thoughts, people when

29:21

they have intrusive thoughts,

29:24

they tend to start panicking and

29:24

they build on the spiral of "oh

29:27

my god, I'm a horrible person",

29:27

when the truth is that this is

29:30

just your thoughts, you are not

29:30

your thoughts, but it's kind of

29:33

like you should think of them as

29:33

if you're holding them in a bag

29:35

with you. You should be able to

29:35

think you should like similar

29:38

with your opinions. You should

29:38

be able to change them out. You

29:40

can hold on to them, but they

29:40

are not you. And when I feel

29:44

less connected to myself, I also

29:44

become numb and desensitised.

29:48

It's it's like a blank emotional

29:48

state. So I like to bring myself

29:52

back to Earth. And that tends to

29:52

be through writing actually. So

29:56

I sit down and I type for

29:56

however long I want to until

29:59

everything I'm thinking is on

29:59

the page, just typing

30:01

mindlessly. And then I read

30:01

through it, I can clearly see my

30:04

own thoughts. And that brings

30:04

myself back to me. I can see

30:07

what I'm actually thinking, go

30:07

hey mate, that's no good, and

30:11

then change their way of thinking.

30:12

Thank you guys. And

30:12

lastly, how did you learn to

30:18

create a healthy relationship

30:18

with yourself? And do you feel

30:23

that this is benefited your

30:23

mental health? Have you noticed

30:27

the benefits for your mental health?

30:29

I believe that you never

30:29

stop creating a healthy

30:33

relationship with yourself. You

30:33

can constantly work on it, learn

30:36

how to be more forgiving, learn

30:36

how to enjoy your time with

30:39

yourself and others learn how to

30:39

be independent but still let

30:43

others in. I finally started

30:43

when I was at my lowest point,

30:47

realising that if I did go any

30:47

lower, that would be the point

30:49

of no return. It was like a

30:49

final self reflection. Think

30:53

about the way I saw myself

30:53

instead of who I was. That

30:58

cleared up a lot of issues with

30:58

myself. And since then it was a

31:01

slow climb to feeling better.

31:01

Sometimes I try focusing on

31:04

being grateful. Sometimes I talk

31:04

to my friends for a good time.

31:08

Sometimes I spend time in the

31:08

garden or writing to appreciate

31:10

myself. And that's the main

31:10

thing. Being able to appreciate

31:14

yourself your hard work you've

31:14

been here, I'm still working on

31:17

it. But it definitely has

31:17

benefited my mental health. It

31:20

feels less like a challenge to

31:20

be with myself, but more like a

31:23

time of discovery. Now I can

31:23

look back on myself and smile.

31:26

My answer is the same as

31:26

Quinn's, I first started making

31:32

my relationship, good

31:32

relationship with myself when I

31:35

hit absolute rock bottom, and I

31:35

knew I couldn't be there again.

31:40

And it's still like Quinn said,

31:40

it is still a constant work in

31:43

progress. But I'm still learning

31:43

about how to do it, but as long,

31:49

but I find that as long as I'm

31:49

okay with myself. And as long as

31:53

I'm able to be on my own and not

31:53

feel lonely or upset or struggle

32:01

like I did when I was at my

32:01

lowest point, then I'm going to

32:04

be okay, and I can work through

32:04

whatever I'm going through

32:07

because time never stops.

32:07

Whatever you're stressing about

32:11

will pass, that will, it'll come

32:11

and go. And whatever you're

32:17

really enjoying, that's going to

32:17

come and go as well. So you've

32:22

got to take notice of what

32:22

you're grateful for in life and

32:24

kind of realise that whatever

32:24

you're stressing about, it will

32:28

end at some point and it will,

32:28

you will get past it. But other

32:34

than that, I think as long as

32:34

you trust yourself and find

32:37

things that you enjoy or find

32:37

ways to make yourself happy. So

32:43

maybe going back and thinking

32:43

about what you liked as a kid

32:46

what foods you liked, what

32:46

sports or activities or stupid

32:51

little things that your kid

32:51

brain loves, that you haven't

32:55

done in years can be a really

32:55

great way to start making

32:59

healing your relationship with

32:59

yourself. So I definitely think

33:01

that it's helped my kind of

33:01

mental health generally, because

33:06

I think it is, mental health

33:06

when it comes down to it, is

33:10

largely how you feel about

33:10

yourself and how you feel about

33:15

your kind of body and mind and

33:15

how you are able to be in your

33:20

own company. And once you have

33:20

that steady foundation, once you

33:24

have that constant in your life,

33:24

you can come back to it when

33:28

everything else is changing.

33:28

When everything else is

33:31

overwhelming or stressful, you

33:31

have a concrete base that you

33:36

can come back to and know you're

33:36

going to be absolutely fine.

33:45

So now I'm joined by

33:45

Sophie Peterman, who is Project

33:48

Coordinator for the peer

33:48

education project at the Mental

33:51

Health Foundation. Sophie is

33:51

going to talk to us about why

33:53

having a healthy relationship

33:53

with ourselves is important for

33:56

our mental health. Thanks for

33:56

joining us today. Sophie, it's

34:00

my pleasure. Thank you for

34:00

having me. So first, I just

34:03

wanted to ask, why is investing

34:03

in a relationship with ourselves

34:08

important for our mental health

34:08

and well being.

34:10

I think it's really

34:10

important to invest in our

34:13

relationship with ourselves

34:13

because it helps us become more

34:16

in tune with how we're feeling

34:16

and what our needs are. And we

34:20

can do this mainly actually by

34:20

putting in time to practice self

34:23

care. So this can include doing

34:23

things that we enjoy, or just

34:27

things that bring us comfort and

34:27

by giving ourselves this time to

34:31

do these things. It helps us to

34:31

develop an understanding of what

34:35

our needs are, and how we can

34:35

meet them, which is really

34:38

important supporting our mental

34:38

health and well being. And it's

34:42

really important not just so

34:42

that we have our own toolkits to

34:45

know what works for us and

34:45

supporting our own mental health

34:48

and well being but to know what

34:48

we can say to others so that

34:52

they know how to support us so

34:52

that we can advocate for

34:55

ourselves as well.

34:56

So you mentioned just

34:56

then self care. Some people

35:00

might have heard this a lot or

35:00

seen this a lot on social media.

35:04

Can it be small things? You

35:04

know? Does it have to be a full

35:08

on day out at the spa? Or like

35:08

making big plans with your

35:12

friends? Or can it be? Is there

35:12

little bits of self care that

35:16

someone could try and introduce?

35:18

definitely, I think

35:18

sometimes we're kind of

35:20

presented with this image of

35:20

self care that they're really

35:23

big, grand gestures that you do

35:23

for yourself that involve a lot

35:26

of time or money. But actually,

35:26

they can just be really small

35:29

things, it could even be as

35:29

small as just taking 30 seconds

35:34

to do some mindful breathing to

35:34

help yourself. Or, you know,

35:39

giving yourself that one extra

35:39

hour of sleep in bed, it can be

35:43

really small things, but

35:43

something that brings you

35:46

comfort, and something that

35:46

brings you kind of care and joy.

35:50

Yeah, and that sounds

35:50

really doable. And like you

35:52

said, it's gonna be different to

35:52

each person, isn't it. So it's

35:54

thinking about what small thing

35:54

you could bring in, which kind

35:57

of tells yourself, you're like,

35:57

I guess putting yourself first

36:01

for a small moment of time.

36:02

And I think it's

36:02

important to have ideas for

36:05

yourself of something that can

36:05

be small, something that can fit

36:09

within five minutes, or

36:09

something that can be bigger. So

36:12

you might want to actually

36:12

think, once a month, I'm going

36:15

to have a self care afternoon.

36:15

And I really love walking. So

36:21

actually, I'm going to pick this

36:21

route, or I'm going to pick this

36:23

place to go to and walk around

36:23

it. And actually, that's a bit

36:26

of self care. I know I've got to

36:26

look forward to in two or three

36:29

weeks time.

36:29

And we know that for

36:29

some people, they can find it

36:33

harder than others to connect

36:33

with themselves or check in with

36:37

how they're feeling. I've got a

36:37

friend that wasn't really raised

36:42

on a vocabulary of kind of

36:42

talking about emotions, they

36:47

were raised more on practically

36:47

supporting each other in their

36:50

family. So when it came to

36:50

expressing within friendships

36:54

and things like that, it was so

36:54

hard for them to find the words

36:57

about how they were they were

36:57

even feeling themselves because

37:00

they hadn't grown up practicing

37:00

to talk about it, or tune in to

37:05

how they feel regularly. So is

37:05

there any tips and advice for

37:10

anyone that it feels really new?

37:10

Like? They see people talking

37:15

about it all the time, or they

37:15

might see influencers talking

37:17

about different emotions and

37:17

being really like emotionally

37:22

aware or aware of their mental

37:22

health and they feel so far away

37:25

from that is what what can they

37:25

do to begin, I guess, their

37:29

journey to this?

37:31

Yeah, I think my advice

37:31

would actually be starting

37:33

there, realising that this is a

37:33

journey, it's not something that

37:36

you're going to have that moment

37:36

of, I want to feel more in tune

37:40

with myself and how I feel and

37:40

being able to express my

37:43

feelings and actually being able

37:43

to realise this is something

37:46

that might take time for me and

37:46

something that I'm going to sort

37:48

of work towards. And I think

37:48

when you give yourself the time

37:52

to grow and develop into it,

37:52

you're not putting that pressure

37:55

on it. I think it's you know,

37:55

connecting with yourself isn't

37:57

about having everything figured

37:57

out or knowing exactly who you

38:01

are or what you need. It's about

38:01

finding those ways that we can

38:05

support ourselves and do those

38:05

things for ourselves that are

38:08

going to help us feel comforted.

38:08

And I think starting with

38:10

something small. So this might

38:10

be as simple as brushing your

38:13

teeth every morning. And

38:13

recognising that you've done

38:16

that you've achieved that and

38:16

celebrating that for yourself

38:19

can be a really important part,

38:19

being your own friend and your

38:22

own cheerleader to celebrate the

38:22

small wins and the small moments

38:26

that you have for yourselves is

38:26

really important. I think

38:29

recognising that it's difficult.

38:29

I think actually, that in itself

38:33

is really important to recognise

38:33

that this is challenging. And

38:37

I'm not always going to get this

38:37

right. But one way that you can

38:42

sort of support yourself through

38:42

that, or at least I find that I

38:44

feel supported through it is

38:44

trying to listen to my body. So

38:50

I cry a lot. And actually, it

38:50

really helps me if I am feeling

38:55

that sort of pressure and that feeling within my body that I need to cry. I really try and

38:57

listen to that. And I go and

39:00

find whether it's a quiet space

39:00

on my own, or whether it is a

39:05

person that I trust, and that

39:05

brings me comfort, I try and

39:07

find a space that I can let that

39:07

out. And sometimes I'll have a

39:12

cry. I don't necessarily know

39:12

what the feeling is. And I might

39:16

not understand what it is that's

39:16

making me feel that way. But

39:19

recognising that my body's

39:19

telling me something my body

39:22

feels like it needs a cry. There

39:22

might be some deeper feelings

39:25

going on under here that I maybe

39:25

need to take a minute to either

39:28

write in a journal to see if I

39:28

can figure them out. Maybe I

39:31

need to sit and I need to chat

39:31

with someone whether that's

39:34

going to be helpful to sit with

39:34

someone that I know and chat to

39:37

or whether actually I need

39:37

someone that I don't necessarily

39:40

know that might just have some

39:40

good advice to just try and

39:43

listen to what my body is

39:43

telling me because sometimes it

39:46

knows things before I feel like

39:46

I do.

39:49

I remember speaking to a

39:49

therapist, and I was like I've

39:53

done lots of work on boundaries

39:53

and I don't understand why I'm

39:55

still not further along with it

39:55

and I'm not really able to

39:58

articulate it with others or I

39:58

understand it in myself. And she

40:02

said, to bring it back to the

40:02

body. So I wasn't at that point

40:06

where I could articulate it to

40:06

others, or I could even know

40:09

what they were for me. But when

40:09

I brought it back to listening

40:14

to my body, so is my chest

40:14

getting tight, am I feeling

40:17

anxious and my muscles getting

40:17

tight? When I'm around someone,

40:20

or maybe when I'm pushing myself

40:20

too far - is my body trying to

40:26

tell me I'm burnt out is my body

40:26

trying to tell me that maybe the

40:30

way someone's behaving isn't

40:30

okay for me. And starting with

40:35

that, I could kind of start to

40:35

notice, oh, this is where my

40:40

boundaries lie. And then I could

40:40

move from recognising in my body

40:45

to be able to articulate it to

40:45

myself, and then be able to tell

40:48

others what they were. Is the

40:48

body a really important part of

40:52

that?

40:54

I think stress is a

40:54

really good example we can use

40:56

to understand this. experiences

40:56

that happen in the body, when

41:00

you are experiencing stress

41:00

could be tension in your

41:02

shoulders, your neck, you might

41:02

get headaches, you might have

41:06

funny tummy, you might have all

41:06

of these physical feelings going

41:10

on, that you might be too busy

41:10

or too focused on other things

41:16

to realise that those are stress

41:16

or connect them to your

41:20

experiences and your feelings of

41:20

stress, but actually being able

41:24

to tune in with your body and

41:24

realise, oh, actually, yeah, my

41:27

shoulders are really tense, and

41:27

they're right up by my ears. And

41:30

that's not that's not feeling

41:30

comfortable for me. What's going

41:34

on? Why am I feeling this sort

41:34

of tension, it can help us it

41:39

can almost be sort of the

41:39

beginning of figuring out what's

41:43

actually going on and what's

41:43

perhaps deeper underneath and

41:46

understanding our feelings, and

41:46

then being able to help

41:49

ourselves understand our needs.

41:50

That's really, really

41:50

helpful. And I think you've then

41:53

answered the next question as

41:53

well, which was, you know, how

41:56

can someone work on their

41:56

relationship with their body to

41:59

help their well-being I guess, a

41:59

really good place to start, is

42:03

that noticing those feelings of

42:03

stress that are probably

42:06

familiar to all of us at some

42:06

point in our, in our lives?

42:09

Definitely, I think I

42:09

think there's lots of different

42:12

ways that someone can do it. And

42:12

I think it is about trying

42:16

different things to find what

42:16

works for you, you know, whether

42:19

this is doing some body

42:19

stretches to notice where the

42:24

areas of tension and maybe are

42:24

in your body, whether that is

42:28

trying to do some mindfulness or

42:28

some meditation, to sort of

42:32

figure out how your body is

42:32

feeling. It could be doing some

42:35

physical activity that you're

42:35

quite used to seeing if your

42:38

body feels any different. See,

42:38

if there are sort of changes in

42:40

how you're engaging with the

42:40

activity, it's, it could really

42:43

be lots of different things. And

42:43

it is about finding what works

42:46

for you. But being able to

42:46

connect with your body and check

42:50

in with your body and how it's

42:50

feeling really can help you to

42:54

start figure out figuring out

42:54

the bigger picture.

42:58

Yeah, it's so good. I

42:58

feel like so many things you've

43:01

said today, I'm definitely going

43:01

to go away and practically try

43:03

loads of them. So I definitely

43:03

think there's lots for our

43:06

listeners to do as well. So

43:06

finally, the last question is,

43:10

what is your favorite way to

43:10

invest in the relationship with

43:15

yourself.

43:16

So I try and do this at

43:16

least once a month. And I am one

43:21

of those people that can

43:21

sometimes really value having

43:25

time with myself to invest in

43:25

myself and my relationship with

43:29

myself. And that can feel really

43:29

great. Sometimes other times it

43:32

can feel really uncomfortable

43:32

and awkward. So what I normally

43:37

do is I go for a walk as part of

43:37

what I do, knowing that walking

43:44

and being out with nature is

43:44

something that does help your

43:46

mental health and can improve

43:46

your mood. So I always like to

43:50

do that before I then go and do

43:50

an activity or something for

43:53

myself, because it puts me in a

43:53

better sort of mood. So even if

43:57

I know I might feel a bit

43:57

uncomfortable later, spending

44:00

some time with myself, I've

44:00

already kind of helped myself

44:03

get into a better mood to then

44:03

spend time with myself. And what

44:07

I do is I love reading and I

44:07

love having just a walk around a

44:12

bookshop, picking up books or

44:12

having a short little read of

44:16

all the blurbs and I'll can

44:16

honestly walk around there for

44:19

ages. And then I'll pick a book.

44:19

And I'll go and find a coffee

44:22

shop and I'll get a pastry

44:22

because pastries are lovely, and

44:26

a coffee or hot chocolate. And

44:26

then I just sit and I have my

44:30

treats and I read my book and

44:30

it's time that I know that I'm

44:34

spending with myself and I'm

44:34

investing in myself. But I'm

44:38

also doing things to help myself

44:38

feel less uncomfortable with it.

44:41

So I've done that work before.

44:41

When I'm reading a book I'm not

44:47

sitting with my thoughts I'm

44:47

exploring a different topic or

44:52

another story with other people

44:52

in it so I can feel connection

44:55

to other things whilst I'm

44:55

connecting to myself which can

44:58

help it feel a bit less uncomfy.

45:07

Thank you to Gemma,

45:07

Quinn, Anna and Sophie for

45:10

Mental

45:10

Health. I've been your host

45:14

Bethan Buswell and I hope this

45:14

episode has helped you think

45:17

about your relationship with

45:17

yourself. All of the resources

45:20

we've mentioned in this episode

45:20

are available in the podcast

45:23

notes and on our website. We're

45:23

continuing this conversation

45:26

over on our social channels. If

45:26

you'd like to share your

45:28

thoughts on today's episode,

45:28

remember to tag the Mental

45:31

Health Foundation. If you've

45:31

been affected by any of the

45:36

topics that have come up on

45:36

today's episode then, please

45:39

remember that Samaritans are

45:39

available 24/7 for free in the

45:42

UK, all you have to do is call

45:42

them on 116 123. And whatever

45:48

you're going through, they're

45:48

there to face it with you. If

45:51

speaking on the phone is too

45:51

difficult and you prefer to text

45:54

then get in touch with Crisis

45:54

Text Line by texting SHOUT to

45:58

85258. And if you're feeling

45:58

like ending your life, please

46:04

call 999 right now or go to A&E

46:04

and ask for the contact of the

46:08

nearest crisis resolution team.

46:08

These are teams of mental health

46:12

care professionals who work with

46:12

people in severe distress. If

46:15

you would like more information

46:15

on where to get support for your

46:18

mental health, visit mental

46:18

health.org.uk/get-help and

46:24

remember you and your mental

46:24

health matter. Thank you so much

46:29

for listening and take care