0:00

The news can feel incredibly

0:02

overwhelming. For a breath of

0:04

much-needed fresh air, head to

0:06

NPR.org's culture section. From the

0:08

buzzy movies, tiny desks, and artists

0:10

that everyone seems to know about,

0:13

type in npr.org for the latest

0:15

and greatest in the pop culture

0:17

universe. You're

0:21

listening to Life Kit from

0:23

NPR. Hey,

0:26

everybody. This is Leanna Maria Percieris

0:29

in for Marielle Sagara. Do

0:32

you remember when your relationship with caffeine began?

0:35

Reporter Andy Tagle knows exactly when

0:37

hers started. So I

0:39

worked at graveyard shift my sophomore year in college and

0:42

it was my duty from 9 o'clock at night to 6

0:44

o'clock in the morning to sit at a desk at the

0:46

front of the dorms and check the IDs of everyone who

0:48

went to the building. So I was

0:50

essentially a hall monitor, not a whole lot to it.

0:52

Great gig to get your homework done. The

0:56

hardest part of the job, Lily, was

0:58

just staying awake. Lucky

1:00

for me, my cute little hall monitor

1:02

desk sat right next to a vending

1:04

machine stocked high with energy drinks.

1:07

And that's how my relationship with Monster Zero

1:09

Ultra, that's the white and silver

1:12

can for fellow enthusiasts, began. From

1:15

that summer on, before every test,

1:17

every deadline, every big interview, Andy

1:20

says she felt like she needed energy

1:22

drinks to perform. It was

1:24

so much a part of her routine, it

1:27

kind of became a personality trait. Even

1:30

if Andy's drink of choice, Monster Zero

1:32

Ultra isn't your go-to. If

1:34

you drink anything with caffeine, you can

1:37

probably relate. On this

1:39

episode of Life Kit, Andy busts some

1:41

myths about caffeine and why it affects

1:43

folks differently so you can have a

1:45

healthy relationship with your morning coffee. Support

1:51

for this NPR podcast and the following

1:54

message come from Amgen, a biotechnology pioneer

1:56

leading the fight against the world's toughest

1:58

diseases such as caffeine. cancer, heart

2:00

disease, asthma, and osteoporosis. In a

2:02

new era of human health, Amgen

2:05

continues to accelerate the pace of

2:07

change, operating sustainably and drawing upon

2:09

deep knowledge of science to push

2:11

beyond what's known today. With each

2:13

decade, they reliably deliver powerful new

2:16

therapies to patients. Learn more at

2:18

amgen.com. The

2:21

news can be disorienting, and it can

2:23

be really hard to remember how we

2:25

got here. That's why we

2:28

started the Through Line Podcast. Every

2:30

week, we take you on a cinematic

2:32

trip into the past to better understand

2:34

the present. Listen now to

2:36

the Through Line Podcast from NPR.

2:40

Getting bogged down by how much new

2:43

music there is out there, there's a

2:45

lot. Consider a daily dose of the

2:47

All Songs Considered Podcast. It's the

2:49

easiest way to get tuned into the music

2:51

world. We spend hours combing

2:53

through the new music universe, from

2:56

emerging bands to time-tested icons, to

2:58

bring you your next favorite artist.

3:01

To get up on your music know-how,

3:03

listen to All Songs Considered from NPR.

3:07

A 2022 survey reported that 93% of American adults consume

3:11

caffeine. Of those, 75% consume

3:13

caffeine at least once a day. So

3:17

it's safe to say a bunch of

3:19

us are stuck on the sauce. But

3:22

what does that mean for us exactly? Some

3:24

people, they might think that they

3:26

need to cut back because they don't like

3:28

the idea of feeling that they're addicted to

3:30

something. Or they just

3:32

think that overall, it's better

3:34

for their health to cut back on caffeine.

3:37

Any of those feelings familiar? Personally,

3:40

I've gotten a ton of grief from

3:42

friends and family about all those monsters.

3:45

And there's a lot of confusing media out

3:47

there, suggesting that caffeine consumption is something to

3:49

be curbed, cut out entirely,

3:51

even feared. But

3:54

I've got some news for you. Caffeine

3:57

is not the enemy. Caffeine

4:00

has a lot of benefits for the average

4:02

person, including in the areas that you would

4:04

have imagined they did it. It's true. In

4:07

general, when used correctly, caffeine is your

4:09

friend, not your phone, and

4:12

has a lot of positive effects to offer

4:14

you. For one, caffeine

4:16

is thought to protect your liver from cirrhosis

4:18

and other liver diseases. Coffee consumption

4:20

reduces your risk of type 2 diabetes. It's

4:23

thought that for every one cup of

4:25

coffee you drink, there's a 3% decreased

4:28

risk in that arrhythmia. For women, caffeine

4:30

is associated with lower stroke risk. Coffee

4:34

and caffeine reduces risk of Parkinson's disease.

4:36

We use caffeine to treat, of course,

4:38

migraine headaches and other types of headaches,

4:40

and the list goes on and on.

4:42

So, in this episode of Life

4:44

Kit, understanding our pal, caffeine. We'll

4:47

learn how caffeine works and why its effect varies

4:49

from person to person. We'll do some more

4:51

myth busting, and we'll learn how to

4:53

make sure that your relationship with that morning Joe

4:56

is a healthy one. A

5:05

quick note up front, friends. This

5:07

episode features vetted medical research, but

5:10

should not be taken as blanket

5:12

medical advice. Responsibly consumed

5:14

caffeine is beneficial for a lot

5:16

of people, but there are

5:19

certain populations like children, pregnant people or

5:21

people trying to get pregnant, those with

5:23

certain medical conditions, or people who take

5:25

certain medications who should abstain

5:28

from or reduce their caffeine consumption. You

5:31

should always speak to your doctor if you have questions

5:33

about your specific needs. Okay,

5:35

first things first, what are we working

5:37

with exactly? Before we

5:40

can determine the role caffeine should play in

5:42

our lives, we need to understand what exactly

5:44

caffeine is and how it works.

5:46

To do that, I've called in some help. My name

5:49

is Ugo Iroku. I'm a gastroenterologist in New

5:51

York City and also an

5:53

associate professor at Mount Fauna Hospital,

5:56

Division of Gastroenterology. session

6:00

scale? I am not

6:02

a caffeine lover. I'm a

6:04

caffeine observer. As a gastroenterologist,

6:06

Dr. Ugo is often the person who has

6:08

to tell his patients they need to alter

6:10

or limit their relationship with caffeine. It

6:13

makes me very unpopular, which is why

6:15

I always try to be practical. And

6:18

I don't take it away. I just

6:20

modify the amount that they intend

6:22

to incorporate into their baseline

6:24

going forward. Before we get to

6:26

baselines and modifications, coffee. Takeaway

6:29

one, understand what's in your cup.

6:33

So caffeine is a compound that

6:35

exists in a number

6:37

of plants, probably over 60

6:40

worldwide. And it also

6:42

exists in our coffee beans and tea

6:44

leaves, in colon nuts

6:46

and cacao. Caffeine

6:48

is a naturally occurring stimulant. That

6:51

means when it's absorbed into the body, it helps

6:53

stimulate the brain and the central nervous system, essentially

6:56

speeding up the message between your head and the rest of

6:58

your body. It does that

7:00

by blocking something called adenosine. So

7:02

this is where you pause the story to say,

7:04

well, what is adenosine? And

7:07

adenosine, interestingly enough, is a

7:09

byproduct of the energy source

7:11

in our body. So we

7:13

run off of an energy

7:15

source called ATP. That stands

7:17

for adenosine triphosphate. And

7:19

with the continued use of the ATP,

7:23

adenosine is like a little marker saying, hey,

7:26

yet another unit of energy has been

7:28

dispensed. When the neurotransmitter adenosine

7:30

has sent out enough of those

7:32

little used energy messages, you

7:34

get drowsy and your body slows down. So

7:37

what caffeine does is get an

7:39

adenosine's way, stopping it from

7:41

delivering those messages to the adenosine receptors that are

7:43

waiting for that signal for the body to rest.

7:46

And so it creates a situation where

7:49

we have increased amount of alertness and

7:51

decreased amount of drowsiness. And so caffeine

7:53

doesn't give us energy, but it gives

7:55

us more alertness by blocking adenosine's message

7:57

to tell us to slow down. and

8:00

to go to sleep. OK, pause here.

8:02

Product marketing has told us over

8:04

and over again that caffeine equals

8:07

energy. But? That's

8:10

a myth, because caffeine in and of

8:12

itself does not give you energy. Now,

8:15

there are plenty of energy-like things that caffeine does

8:17

for you that I'm sure I don't have to

8:19

spell out, but will for good measure. It

8:22

makes you more alert and focused. Some

8:24

studies have also shown that it

8:26

can improve mood, cognitive and athletic

8:28

performance, even potentially increase metabolism. But

8:31

all of these effects are not the same

8:34

thing as providing actual energy to your body.

8:37

Only food could do that. Why

8:39

is this important to know? Because

8:42

Dr. Ugo says that far too often,

8:44

people try to use caffeine as a

8:46

substitute for adequate rest in nutrition. I

8:49

know I'm guilty of that. Unfortunately,

8:52

that's just not how it works. Caffeine

8:55

can never make up for a poor night's sleep.

8:57

The only thing that can make up for a

8:59

poor night's sleep is more sleep. And

9:01

at 3 PM coffee? It might

9:03

help you get through your afternoon hump, but it's

9:05

important to know that that tired feeling will likely

9:07

boomerang back to you later on in your day.

9:11

Because, remember, caffeine doesn't get rid of those sleepy

9:13

signals. It just holds them off a while. So

9:17

caffeine is cool, but you'll still need your fruit,

9:19

your veggies, and your bedtime. And

9:21

while we're on the topic of diet, there's

9:23

probably another caffeine reputation you're familiar with. One

9:26

effect that some people report is

9:29

that when they consume coffee, they feel that

9:31

they have an increased amount of desire to

9:33

go to the bathroom and to move their

9:35

bowels. Coffee specifically is a

9:37

common tool for keeping people regular. But

9:40

some research suggests caffeine in general might help get

9:42

you moving too. You might have also

9:44

heard that caffeine is a diuretic. And that's

9:46

true, but it's a mild one. Essentially,

9:49

caffeine can, in

9:52

moderate amounts, cause a moderate

9:54

amount of desire to have a

9:56

urine output. And so,

9:58

you know, put roughly. I think 300

10:01

milligrams of caffeine might induce about

10:03

four fluid ounces of urine in

10:06

general. So you can make of that

10:08

what you will. Or if you want to know

10:10

more about hydration, head over to our Life Kit episode on the

10:12

topic. The next thing you need to

10:14

know about caffeine, like I mentioned

10:16

at the start, caffeine is usually not the

10:18

bad guy. Takeaway

10:21

two, caffeine isn't your enemy. It

10:25

has a PR problem. You've

10:27

heard the whispers before. Caffeine stunts your

10:30

growth, causes heart disease, dehydrates you. See

10:33

you're clear, say the headlines. But

10:35

these rumors just don't ring true for the

10:37

vast majority of us. How

10:40

did we get here? Pull up a cold brew

10:42

and let's get into it. Marilyn

10:44

Cornelis is an associate professor at

10:46

Northwestern University's Feinberg School of Medicine.

10:49

I do research in nutrition, genetics,

10:52

and special interests in coffee and

10:56

caffeine health. Marilyn says caffeine

10:58

often cozies up with bad actors.

11:01

And that confuses people. Consuming a

11:03

lot of caffeine is often equated with

11:06

someone who is really stressed out and

11:09

working hard. And some of those other

11:11

behaviors are actually more greater risk factors

11:13

for health. And so it becomes

11:15

what we call a confounder in some of this

11:17

research. So caffeine has a

11:19

serious case of guilt by association. Someone

11:22

who's drinking a lot of caffeine might

11:24

be short on sleep. We know sleep

11:26

is an important risk factor for

11:29

a number of diseases. Nicotine

11:31

is another great example. Smoking

11:33

and coffee consumption are highly

11:35

correlated. What's interesting about

11:37

smoking is that it induces the enzyme

11:40

that metabolizes caffeine. And so the smoker

11:42

will want to consume more coffee in

11:44

order to get that psychosumine effect. And

11:47

we know that smoking is a risk

11:49

factor for a number of

11:51

health outcomes and diseases. So

11:54

the more you smoke, the more you'll want caffeine. Another

11:56

important thing to know in this arena, not all caffeine

11:59

is a risk factor. drinks are created equal.

12:02

Black coffee or green tea offer antioxidants

12:04

and a slew of other potential benefits

12:07

for example but sugary

12:09

syrup beef frappuccinos, sodas, energy

12:11

drinks. Do you have a lot of

12:13

sugar and a lot of other contents

12:16

that may not be helpful for you? Of course

12:18

we know it really depends on what you're taking

12:20

with your caffeine before the judgment comes

12:23

in. Caffeine alone doesn't rot

12:25

your teeth or lead to weight gain but

12:27

too much soda in your diet might. Healthy

12:30

caffeine consumption seems to promote heart

12:32

health but pounding those

12:34

caffeine and sugar overloaded energy drinks

12:37

every day might be a quick

12:39

recipe for health troubles like insomnia,

12:41

nervousness, or irregular heartbeat. You

12:44

get the point. Caffeine in general is

12:46

not a lone bandit out to steal your

12:48

calm and crib your good health. But

12:51

there is one more big idea to consider here.

12:54

The idea of caffeine as an addictive

12:56

drug. Currently the US

12:58

does not consider caffeine an

13:00

addictive substance so your

13:03

layman person like every day they

13:05

might say oh my caffeine addict and of course there's

13:07

always jokes about it but technically it's

13:10

not considered a drug of dependence. Let's

13:12

break down why that might be. There

13:14

are a number of different factors that can

13:16

contribute to an addiction or substance use disorder.

13:19

Among them, according to the DSM-5,

13:22

impaired control, physical dependence,

13:24

social problems, and risky

13:27

use. An

13:29

addiction to heroin for example can greatly

13:31

impair your judgment and might lead to

13:33

neglecting responsibilities at home, work, or school.

13:36

If you're addicted to alcohol you might feel the

13:38

need to keep drinking even when it causes relationship

13:40

problems. This is where caffeine

13:43

seems to stand apart from other drugs. That

13:45

aspect of social harm. Now

13:47

this isn't to say caffeine can't be abused

13:50

but the research seems to show that generally

13:52

mistakes are a bit different. Yes I

13:55

think there is no strong clinically significant

13:57

you know adverse effects of being on

13:59

caffeine. the way there is with

14:01

other harsher chemicals like

14:03

cocaine and heroin or the like.

14:07

That being said, you can build up a tolerance

14:09

to caffeine, which isn't the same as

14:11

an addiction. It just

14:13

means over time, your body gets used to

14:15

that daily coffee and can produce more adenosine

14:17

receptors accordingly. And if

14:19

you don't have it, you might experience withdrawal symptoms.

14:22

And then there's misuse, which is,

14:25

well, what it sounds like. Caffeine

14:27

substances, and in this case, caffeine, at

14:29

inappropriate levels or ways that could potentially

14:31

lead to adverse outcomes. We

14:34

all had one cup too many and regretted it. So

14:37

maybe take a pause here and take a hard look

14:39

at your daily caffeine routine. Is

14:42

there any part of this relationship that's harming you? Any

14:44

part of your routine that just isn't sitting right? It's

14:47

important to know what healthy caffeine consumption looks like

14:49

for you and to understand

14:51

that it will look different for everyone, from

14:54

the surface level to the cellular. And

15:01

that brings us to takeaway number three, learn

15:03

your levels. Have

15:07

you ever been scolded for your Venti Macho Latte? Given

15:10

that judgmental eye when you get up for that

15:12

second cup of coffee or crack open that early

15:14

morning energy drink? Been there.

15:17

And Marilyn has some information that might

15:19

help. For her postdoctoral work at

15:21

the Harvard School of Public Health, Marilyn

15:23

studied the relationships between the human

15:25

genome and our coffee and caffeine

15:27

consumption. We found that genetic

15:30

variants that were related

15:32

to increased caffeine

15:34

metabolism were also related to

15:37

increased caffeine consumption

15:39

behavior. So if an

15:41

individual was genetically predisposed to

15:44

metabolize caffeine very quickly, we

15:47

found that they tended to consume

15:49

more caffeine. Marilyn's

15:51

research found that our appetite and tolerance

15:53

for caffeine is written in our genetic

15:56

code. So I

15:58

might naturally be more of a one-cousette a person. and you

16:00

might be more of the three coffee type. Neither

16:02

is good or bad. You just respond differently to

16:05

caffeine. You either have grown accustomed

16:07

to it and you've become, you can

16:09

tolerate more caffeine. Our genetics are

16:11

just different, so it makes you different from

16:13

someone else. The other cool part about this,

16:16

Maryland says that your body often already knows

16:18

what it needs and will signal that to

16:20

you. So you're naturally trying to titrate

16:23

the levels of intake based on your

16:25

genetics. Some people get really anxious with

16:27

too much caffeine, so they naturally

16:29

cut back and they just tend to know. Any

16:32

avid coffee drinker, they know when to

16:34

cut off, what's

16:37

the latest that they can have a cup

16:39

of coffee before it impacts their sleep. Have

16:41

you ever been flabbergasted by that friend who goes for coffee at

16:44

10 p.m. or get jealous

16:46

of that coworker that only needs a little bit of tea

16:48

to power through their workday? Personally,

16:50

I used to love to take

16:52

a few big swigs of Monster right before laying down

16:54

for a nap. Don't at

16:56

me. You might call it wild.

16:58

I call it genetics. Now,

17:01

I wanna be clear here. This is not a

17:03

blank check to take down as much caffeine as you

17:05

want, but it is good to know

17:08

the effects of caffeine vary from person to person,

17:10

which means sensitivities and dependence can vary

17:12

too. So how

17:15

can you find your caffeine consumption sweet spot? As

17:18

a starting point, the Food and Drug Administration

17:20

suggests a max of 400 milligrams of caffeine

17:23

a day for the average person, because

17:25

this is the amount not generally associated

17:28

with dangerous or negative effects. Beyond

17:31

that limit, some people might experience side

17:33

effects like sleeplessness, upset stomach, or

17:35

feelings of unhappiness. Again,

17:37

this measure is a starting point. So

17:40

it doesn't apply to everyone equally. But

17:42

just so you're aware, let's get a handle

17:44

on what 400 milligrams actually looks like. Most

17:47

sources say that's roughly the amount of caffeine

17:49

in four cups of coffee. But-

17:52

You have to be very careful when you're

17:54

converting from cups to milligrams because there's

17:56

a cup and then there's a cup that's a

17:59

Vansi that has- like four

18:01

times the amount of caffeine you'd expect

18:03

in it. Moderation is key, no

18:05

matter what you're drinking. Even if you're

18:07

taking your caffeine in with a

18:09

nice, innocent, civilized look, a cup

18:12

of Earl Grey, but you're doing

18:14

six cups of it, you're

18:16

consuming a lot more than you would be in

18:18

terms of caffeine than you would be with a

18:20

single monster drink. From there, keep listening

18:22

to your body. Having a stressful

18:25

day so you ask for an extra espresso shot? Your

18:27

body can give you feedback, a

18:30

jitteriness, anxiety, a raised

18:32

pulse that you're just

18:34

consuming too much in a given moment.

18:36

And what about that 4 p.m. energy drink? Will

18:39

it mess with your sleep? According

18:41

to the FDA, the half-life of the caffeine

18:43

is between four and six hours. So

18:46

yes, if you retry that can too late, you might

18:48

be affecting the quality of your rest. Likely

18:50

increasing the risk of insomnia and decreasing

18:52

your REM sleep. Keep track

18:54

of your patterns over time too. Does that medium roast

18:56

just not give you the same kick that it used

18:59

to? Do you need more and more

19:01

caffeine to do the same functions? So that's

19:03

a warning sign that you might

19:05

be quote unquote, you're relying too

19:07

heavily on caffeine to function. Withdrawal

19:09

symptoms obviously are another warning sign. And

19:12

that can look like a lot of things. Headaches,

19:14

fogginess, bad moods or

19:16

irritability, fatigue, drowsiness, difficulty

19:19

concentrating. All the things we

19:21

wanna avoid on a regular basis, no? And

19:24

finally, a reminder here, if you have any questions

19:26

or doubts about your consumption level. It's

19:29

worth a conversation with your doctor as to

19:31

how to best manage your caffeine intake. Okay,

19:37

you made it this far and you decided maybe it's time

19:39

to make some changes. We've got

19:41

you covered. Our final takeaway,

19:43

takeaway four. If you wanna cut

19:45

back, go slow and make

19:47

swaps. Maybe you're tired of that

19:50

energy drink calling your name from the vending machine at

19:52

the start of every work day. Maybe

19:54

you don't like being so dependent on iced coffee to get

19:56

through a day of running errands. Or

19:59

maybe it's just time to. Change up your routine. How

20:02

should you do it? Quitting caffeine cold turkey

20:04

is an option. And Dr. Ugo

20:06

says the worst of withdrawal symptoms usually abate

20:08

in around 10 days, but...

20:10

And just empirically we see that half people tend to

20:13

fail when they try to do a cold turkey. Big

20:15

yikes. And so I

20:17

think ultimately the only benefit is that

20:20

you get to your goal sooner if

20:22

you can tuck through the

20:24

withdrawal symptoms, but otherwise the slower, more

20:26

tapered approach is probably the more humane

20:28

way to go. Just do it

20:31

slowly. It's a lot easier. In

20:33

most cases, there's no need to make life harder

20:35

than it needs to be by quitting caffeine full

20:37

stop. But what does a slow approach

20:39

to cutting back actually look like? Johns

20:41

Hopkins University tried to answer just that question,

20:44

and they had their patients do a

20:46

tapered step-down in the amount of caffeine

20:48

that they consumed. Let's say you normally

20:50

drink four cups of coffee a day. On

20:53

week one... They'd have you do three cups of

20:55

coffee a day. Week two, you had

20:57

to cut that down to two cups of coffee a day. One

21:00

cup of coffee for week three. So far, you've

21:02

cut back one cup of coffee per week. Week

21:04

four, believe it or not, it would be half a cup

21:06

of coffee a day. And by the fifth

21:08

week, they wanted you to be down to less than 50

21:11

milligrams of caffeine a day, which ultimately

21:13

ends up to being about a third

21:16

or so, more or

21:18

less, of a cup of coffee, and

21:21

without using more than 15

21:24

milligrams at any one moment of time. I

21:26

know what you're thinking. A third of a

21:29

cup of coffee or less? Don't

21:32

worry, this is just one way to do it.

21:34

You know best what an optimal level of caffeine

21:36

is for you. And something else

21:38

to remember here, our relationships with

21:40

caffeine aren't just about what it does to

21:42

us physiologically. Coffee dates with

21:45

coworkers, tea with grandma, coke and popcorn

21:47

at the movies. Caffeine is

21:49

such a big part of our personal and

21:51

social rituals. These things

21:53

are significant. Maybe the whole

21:56

ritual involved in obtaining our

21:58

caffeine does give us a... dopamine

22:00

hit. So see where you can make

22:02

some swaps. Maybe you just

22:05

need a fizzy drink at the movies, not a

22:07

soda necessarily, and could opt for sparkling water

22:09

instead of Pepsi. Maybe

22:11

what you're craving in the middle of that stressful

22:13

workday isn't that Americano with an extra shot but

22:15

the fresh air and the breaking your day that

22:17

the walk to the coffee shop affords you. Have

22:20

a weekly coffee date with your bestie? Just

22:23

swap for decaf. And so you can very

22:25

quickly achieve a drop in

22:27

your caffeine intake while still

22:29

getting some of the other social and

22:31

kind of psychological cues of having your

22:33

drink. Whether you're looking for a good time

22:35

with friends, a way to make that work deadline, or

22:37

a good study buddy for that big exam, remember

22:40

you have options. So I

22:42

think as a society it's almost like

22:44

a contract. We understand that we're using this,

22:47

we benefit from it, and

22:49

everyone personally has the individual

22:51

responsibility to make sure that

22:53

they're using it properly. Don't

22:55

be scared to change or experiment with

22:57

your relationship with caffeine. The important thing

22:59

is that caffeine should be a helpful

23:01

friend in your corner, not the

23:03

best of you. Alright,

23:06

I've had a gulp of green tea and I'm ready to close

23:08

this out. Let's recap. Takeaway

23:11

one, understand what's in your cup.

23:14

Caffeine can do a lot for you but it's

23:16

not an energy source. Sorry friends, the

23:18

only fix for a lack of sleep is more sleep.

23:21

Takeaway two, caffeine is not the

23:23

enemy. There are so many benefits

23:25

to adding caffeine to your diet. Don't be scared

23:27

by old wives tales. Takeaway three,

23:30

learn your levels. Caffeine consumption

23:33

is not one size fits all. We

23:35

all have different sensitivities and tendencies. So

23:37

listen to your body. Takeaway

23:40

four, if it's time to cut back, go

23:42

slow and remember you can still savor

23:44

your rituals. That's

23:49

Life Kit reporter Andy Tagle. For

23:52

more Life Kit, check out our other episodes.

23:54

We've got one on how to up

23:56

your coffee game and another on food

23:59

substitutions. can find those

24:01

at npr.org/LifeKit. And

24:03

if you love LifeKit and want more, subscribe

24:06

to our newsletter at npr.org slash

24:08

LifeKit newsletter. Also, we'd

24:10

love to hear from you. If you

24:13

have episode ideas or feedback you wanna

24:15

share, email us at

24:17

lifekit at npr.org. This

24:20

episode was produced by Claire Marie Schneider. Marielle

24:23

Sagara is our host. Our

24:26

visuals editor is Beck Harland. Our

24:28

digital editor is Malika Garib and

24:30

Megan Kane is the supervising editor.

24:33

Beth Donovan is the executive producer

24:35

and our production team also includes

24:37

Andy Tagle, Audrey Wynn and Sylvie

24:40

Douglass. Engineering support comes

24:42

from Brian Jarbo. I'm

24:44

Liliana Maria Percidois. Thanks for

24:46

listening. Every

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