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to win. That's skiwithdewzero.com. My

2:00

daughter's been waking up very, very early because

2:02

she's teething. So it's been

2:04

some early mornings for me. So I'm trying to

2:06

like pound in a celsius over here.

2:08

Like I already had like three cups of coffee

2:10

when I first woke up and I'm just like

2:12

pumping myself with caffeine. Oh,

2:15

well I have no excuse over here. I'm

2:17

always just pumping myself up with caffeine. It's

2:20

all right. That's all right. How are you doing Danny?

2:22

I'm doing pretty good, man. Doing pretty good. Well, well

2:24

we've got a crazy

2:27

case for you. I mean when do we

2:29

don't have a crazy case? But we have

2:31

a crazy disturbing controversial

2:33

case. We're going to be

2:35

covering a young boy

2:38

at the time of these murders named

2:40

Eldon Samuel the third. In this case

2:42

it's kind of been coined by

2:44

the media as a zombie apocalypse murders. Yes.

2:46

I want to explain just a little bit of why. Yeah. Okay.

2:50

We're going to be dealing with his, the killer's

2:52

father was a prepper and he

2:54

was very paranoid that the zombie

2:56

apocalypse was about to happen. And

2:58

this was circa the time when

3:00

zombies were very in the media.

3:02

Super popular. I

3:05

remember those times. Yeah. Like

3:07

turn on the TV. There was something

3:09

zombie related. Every single time AMC was

3:11

playing some zombie movie. Yeah. It

3:13

was always, and then they all had

3:16

the reality TV shows for the prepping.

3:19

So it was a very specific era of

3:22

doomsday. So they, the 2012 was

3:24

running. So

3:27

yeah, it's put yourself back in

3:29

that time. You know, did you ever

3:31

worry a little bit about the zombie

3:33

apocalypse? I can't say that. I never

3:36

did. Did you? You know, I considered

3:39

it. Yes. You

3:42

know, I considered it as a possibility because I've

3:44

read so many articles where like during

3:48

this time too, there are like articles from like

3:50

scientists would come out because you know, the media

3:52

would want to know that like, is this possible?

3:54

And so I'd read some scientific articles and like,

3:57

technically not possible.

3:59

in the way that media

4:02

portrays it, but a

4:05

virus or something like this that could potentially

4:07

mutate. I thought

4:09

you were going to say if everyone starts

4:11

smoking K2 or something. Or that. Or if

4:14

some street drug grows around, which I mean, as

4:17

we know, drugs can definitely put you in a

4:19

zombie-like state. And there's a lot of drugs involved

4:22

in this case as well. Yes. That's

4:24

the irony of this case is really if

4:26

anyone was the zombie, it was the dad.

4:28

Yeah. Yeah. It's very, very sad and tragic

4:30

case as well. Just the end result is

4:33

bad all the way around.

4:35

Yeah. 100%. But before

4:37

we dive into Elden's case

4:39

here, I did want to remind you that

4:42

Mile welcome

4:58

back to my channel. You'll be right there all

5:00

having a great day. You can find a petition.

5:03

They need to make a short phone call and

5:05

an email. It's going to make a huge difference. Jessica

5:08

called fearful and asking for her help. 10

5:10

days later, while family members held a search

5:13

party in the neighborhood, it was her sister

5:15

who found her body near the 610 underpass,

5:17

a six minute walk from her home. I

5:20

did not see her being in a situation

5:22

that would even enable her

5:25

to make those choices. And literally the

5:27

very first one that came to my mind

5:29

was she would never meet

5:32

her death the way she was.

5:37

I got involved in it. I saw

5:39

the missing flyer on Facebook and you

5:43

want to go missing around here with

5:46

over 30,000 signatures on a change.org

5:48

petition, asking authorities to review her

5:50

death once more. She was

5:52

caring and she

5:55

always had a story to tell. She was

5:57

really patient with me. She was just let me hang

5:59

out. is

8:00

a complete mess. And obviously Jessica

8:02

Easterly's family is

8:05

looking for justice for their loved

8:08

one. And that's ultimately the goal with this is

8:10

to raise awareness around the case and hopefully something

8:13

happens. Hopefully pressure's put on those

8:16

in charge to do something with all

8:18

of you watching this and

8:20

supporting this cause. So very

8:22

excited for y'all to see that. And

8:25

lastly, I just wanna mention, we still have

8:27

the Lights Out Puff Print Hoodies, Heavyweight Edition

8:29

at Lights Out Castoff Shop. Get them

8:31

all you can. And yeah,

8:34

that's all I got. Nice, should we

8:36

just dive in? Yeah, we should dive head

8:38

first into this one. It's pretty wild. Here

8:41

we go. Eldon

8:44

Samuel II married

8:46

his wife, Tina McCurdy, in Northern California

8:48

in 1998. And

8:50

their first son, who we've been talking about,

8:53

Eldon Gale Samuel III, was born in 1999.

8:56

So we're gonna try not to make

8:58

this too confusing with multiple Eldon Samuels,

9:00

three Eldon Samuels technically. We're

9:03

gonna call the grandfather the oldest

9:05

Eldon, Eldon Senior, then Eldon II,

9:09

Junior, and Eldon III will just

9:11

be Eldon. So Eldon

9:13

Junior is young Eldon's

9:16

father in this case. The

9:19

couple also had a second son named Jonathan Samuel, who

9:21

was born a year later in 2000. Jonathan

9:24

was a special needs child and some

9:26

sources say he was severely autistic. And

9:29

that's just based on the information that we could find out there

9:31

we don't know, 100% one way or another. At

9:34

first, the Samuels lived a basic life in

9:37

Modesto, California. And for the most part, they

9:39

were liked by their neighbors and their community.

9:42

The father, Junior, worked in local politics. When

9:44

his boys were young, he once ran for

9:46

city council in Modesto, which is a pretty

9:48

crazy thing about it as we go forward here. But

9:51

he thought the city needed better infrastructure, rent

9:53

control, and less crime. Sounds

9:56

good. Yeah, I'm on board with that. His

9:58

plan was to run drug dealers. and drug users

10:00

out of town. Vinnie

10:04

planned on lowering rent, increasing housing for

10:06

the elderly, and increasing funding for police

10:08

and firefighters. But sadly

10:11

he ended up losing his bid for city

10:13

council, and after his loss

10:15

he became noticeably angry and disgruntled. Then

10:18

tragedy struck early on when the boys were just

10:20

3 and 4 years old. As

10:22

her mother Tina was in a serious car accident,

10:25

and ever since the accident she struggled with chronic

10:27

pain for most of her life. Junior

10:30

also suffered from a shoulder injury while working

10:32

as a mechanic. And

10:34

even though Junior's platform was against

10:36

drug use, Tina's wife Tina began

10:39

abusing painkillers, especially hydrocodone. Over

10:41

the next decade Tina also later tried to take

10:43

her own life several times by overdosing. Junior

10:53

would bounce around from doctor to doctor

10:55

looking for prescriptions, he could easily

10:57

get muscle relaxers and opiates for his shoulder pain,

11:00

and he was also prescribed medications for anxiety

11:02

and sleep. It's estimated that

11:04

in over a decade he had got

11:06

over 560 prescriptions written from 36 different

11:10

doctors. There were estimated to be about

11:12

50,000 to 60,000 pills split between him and his wife. Their

11:18

drug abuse soon caused them financial turmoil, and

11:20

they lost their home. And

11:22

then they were forced to move into low income

11:25

rental complexes they could barely afford. Junior

11:27

also became violent during this time, and according to

11:30

Eldon, his father would physically abuse him and his

11:32

mother. He would beat his

11:34

son's legs and feet so that bruises couldn't be

11:36

seen by others while Eldon was wearing long pants and

11:38

shoes. And because of the abuse,

11:40

Eldon started missing a lot of school. As

11:43

for Jonathan, his father wouldn't physically abuse him, but

11:45

he would break his toys and things that are

11:47

important to him. The abuse

11:49

escalated to the point where, according to Eldon,

11:51

his father poured lighter fluid all over Tina

11:54

and threatened to burn her alive. When

11:57

Eldon was 6 years old, his father also hit Tina with

11:59

a fan- family car and she was hospitalized for

12:01

a broken collarbone. Eldon's

12:04

father is just an absolute piece of shit.

12:07

Four years after this incident he tied Tina up with

12:10

duct tape for hours and held a gun to her

12:12

head. Then he forced Eldon, now

12:14

10 years old, to urinate on his mother. Throughout

12:17

their marriage both Tina and Junior found restraining orders

12:19

against each other for domestic violence and it wasn't

12:21

long before their son became violent as well. When

12:24

Eldon was 6 years old he began to physically bully

12:26

his younger brother. Actually some

12:28

of the neighbors heard what was going on inside of

12:30

the Samuel household. One day it was so

12:32

bad that one of the neighbors actually called the police and

12:35

Child Protective Services was also contacted

12:37

and this wasn't the first time that CPS had

12:39

been sent to the Samuel household as you can imagine.

12:42

One of the neighbors claimed they saw Tina hitting one

12:44

of her sons so she was arrested. She

12:47

later pled no contest to a charge

12:49

of willful child cruelty and was sentenced

12:51

to 6 months in the county jail. Because

12:54

for the children's father, they did nothing

12:57

and while he had custody of the

12:59

boys his drug abuse escalated and he

13:01

developed severe paranoia. As it

13:03

got worse he soon thought that the world was going to

13:05

come to an end so it

13:08

was time for him to start

13:10

diving into doomsday prepper lifestyle. So

13:13

we've set the stage for pretty

13:17

much a terrible household up

13:19

to this point and now the dad

13:21

is getting into the prepper mindset. So

13:23

if you don't know what preppers are,

13:25

they're basically a fringe group that

13:27

they've become more popular in the

13:30

past decade, two decades. And

13:33

there's estimated that there's 9 million Americans

13:35

that participate in prepping to some

13:37

degree. That could be anything from

13:40

food storage to the

13:42

bunker on TV. But

13:46

the famous ones, they're known for building

13:48

bomb shelters, underground hideouts, food shelters. And

13:50

on top of this, they

13:52

also stockpile weapons and ammunition a lot of

13:55

the times. The idea is

13:57

that when the world ends, you and your

13:59

family will just That'll be it.

14:01

You'll have to fend for yourselves. The world is

14:03

chaos and it depends

14:05

on what that is. It could be a

14:07

natural or man-made disaster. Sometimes

14:10

worst-case scenarios is the government has

14:12

collapsed. Uh, society. Mark

14:14

the laws. Yeah, it's become

14:16

a total war zone.

14:18

Everything falls into oblivion. Some

14:21

people think there will be a massive civil

14:23

war. Some believe that

14:25

they'll poison the water supply or the

14:28

food supply. Some

14:30

think it'll be like the game Fallout, which

14:32

I don't know if you guys ever played

14:34

that way. I'm gonna say this is super

14:36

fun games, but it's basically nuclear Armageddon. Everyone,

14:38

you know, had to go into the shelters.

14:41

But obviously there's layers and layers onto

14:43

that story. So, could be

14:46

a plethora of things, but what

14:48

Junior ended up believing was that the

14:50

zombie apocalypse was just for sure gonna

14:52

come. It was right around the corner

14:55

and this was also, you know,

14:57

not coincidentally, this was around the

15:00

cultural height of our fascination with

15:02

zombies. Do you remember the

15:04

show The Walking Dead? It was like the biggest

15:06

show on TV. It was.

15:08

Rest in peace, Walking Dead, man. Yeah,

15:11

whatever. Okay, I stopped watching after

15:13

season three, but what happened?

15:15

I stopped watching it after like season five, I

15:17

think. Okay. Because it just got

15:19

so bad. It just dragged on and

15:22

nothing ever happened, really. And it just

15:24

became super depressing. Did it? Yeah, like

15:26

everyone's just dying. Yeah, it just and it

15:28

seemed like they didn't know where to go

15:30

with the story at some point. But I

15:32

mean, the first two seasons are gold. So

15:34

good. Yeah. Amazing stuff. It's

15:37

hard, like, I don't know about you, but

15:39

when I watch shows like The Walking Dead

15:41

or most recently Last of Us, there's

15:44

also a show on Apple TV called

15:47

Silo, which is kind of, you know,

15:49

doomsday-ish. I'm not going

15:51

to lie, after watching those shows, especially Last of Us, I was like,

15:53

it may not be a bad

15:55

idea to start prepping. And

15:57

I'm not going to lie, I definitely have a few. things

16:01

for food rations or

16:03

at least I think which you can buy like kits

16:06

now survival kits and things like that I've definitely started

16:08

building out a little like survival and you

16:12

know kit for my family I don't think that's irrational

16:14

I know

16:16

the Mormons like you ever go in a

16:18

warm in the basement they always have food

16:20

storage because they're I think they're

16:23

they say like oh for a year but really

16:25

a lot of them I think it's three months

16:27

food supply several days

16:30

water supply I think

16:32

that's the bare minimum I could be wrong on that

16:34

sorry if you're Mormon and you're listening and I'm totally

16:36

wrong on that but I don't

16:38

think that's irrational because what it could just be

16:41

terrible weather maybe you get snowed in right three

16:43

days or something like it's not a crazy idea

16:46

to have that well and also with the pandemic

16:48

if you remember especially at the beginning shelves

16:51

were being cleared no toilet hard to

16:53

get stuff and you know stores are

16:55

closed I think that event

16:57

really just kind of pushed me in

16:59

this direction to you have like rather

17:02

be prepared you know rather have what I need

17:04

then be sorry I didn't get

17:06

it yeah like you have this space to

17:08

do it why not just get

17:10

some basic rations you know or if like the

17:12

power grid ever goes down or something like that

17:15

basically just being

17:17

self-sustainable to an extent right yeah it's

17:19

not necessarily like taking

17:21

it to the next level where you're

17:23

like also I'm gonna build the world's

17:25

largest armory yeah so that if tanks

17:28

roll in my front yard I'm ready

17:30

to go yeah right in for battle

17:32

cuz my shotgun can defend against right

17:34

us military tank coming in or a

17:36

drone strike right yeah no I

17:38

don't think that's irrational at all so

17:41

you know this was just Walking

17:44

Dead you had TLC Discovery Channel

17:46

I think History Channel even had

17:48

some reality TV shows yeah National

17:50

Geographic had a doomsday prepper series

17:52

which one was the one where

17:54

they rated them they're like

17:56

you will survive for 17 days you're actually

17:59

not that prepared I feel like it

18:01

was the National Geographic. That was my

18:03

favorite one. And I remember one

18:05

of the episodes, a family

18:07

member needed insulin and

18:10

insulin needs to be stored in a cool

18:12

area built beneath a certain temperature. And this

18:14

family thought that they could take the insulin

18:16

and store it in the nearby river because

18:18

it was cool enough. And they were just

18:20

like, absolutely not. This would never

18:23

work out. So unfortunately,

18:25

we are restricted by a lot

18:28

of things like that. And even

18:30

the most prepared preppers, you're

18:33

not really going to last that long. I

18:35

also think my last comment on

18:37

this is that we always think that we're the

18:39

main character in a zombie scenario. Like, oh, I

18:41

got this. I'm the guy shooting the zombies in

18:44

the head and like, I'm going to survive. Nah.

18:48

If we're going to be taken out, I'll be a zombie in

18:50

like 30 minutes. That's what Ken always

18:52

says to me. He's like, I'll just let them meet me.

18:55

Like if that's what happens, then I don't even

18:57

want to be alive. And I'm like, no, I

18:59

will survive. I will take

19:01

my child and carry her across the country

19:03

to some settlements where

19:06

we can live. That

19:08

is the, that's the fantasy for sure.

19:10

But it's like, it's all fun and

19:13

games until it actually happens. Yeah. Like,

19:15

shit, do I even want to live in this world anymore? Yeah,

19:18

there'll be a dark aftermath.

19:20

Yeah. So aside

19:23

from the zombie hype around this time, which I

19:25

mentioned this earlier, there was also the theory that

19:27

December 21st, 2012, which was actually my 20th birthday,

19:29

the world was

19:32

supposed to end. People were connecting the dots, like

19:35

Nostradamus and stuff like that.

19:38

Yeah, my calendar stuff. Yeah, exactly. So

19:41

people were, there was, I don't know,

19:43

with all the zombie hype, with all the world

19:45

ending hype, I could, you know, Junior

19:47

is doing a lot of drugs at this point.

19:50

So that paranoia is kicking in. Yeah.

19:53

Oh shit, what if it hits the

19:55

fan? Am I prepared? Exactly. And

19:57

since American media was like hyping that stuff up.

20:00

A lot of us saw it as fun,

20:02

but I think in his, for him, he

20:04

was like, oh, this is serious. The world

20:06

might have. Which I feel like, I don't know about

20:08

you, but I feel like the media puts stuff out like

20:10

this conveniently to kind

20:13

of like poison our minds and to

20:15

believing this reality, you know what I

20:17

mean? You think so? There's like definitely

20:19

subliminal messaging going on with the media.

20:22

I feel like it's sometimes it's just too perfectly

20:24

placed that you're like, they

20:27

knew that this was gonna resonate with people right

20:29

now. That's why they put this out for sure.

20:31

And around, you know, 2008,

20:33

the financial recession happened. People were

20:35

in the dumps and yeah, I

20:38

could see that there's like doomsday as

20:40

this attractive thing. So basically Junior, much

20:42

like us, he just wouldn't stop talking

20:45

about the zombie apocalypse the end of

20:47

the world. It was just his obsession.

20:50

At first he taught his sons how to

20:52

use knives as a self-defense weapon. And he

20:54

would even now keep in mind, his sons

20:56

are very young at this. They're within

20:58

the age of 10. And

21:01

he would be teaching them how to stab a

21:03

zombie in the brain. Wow.

21:06

I don't know about you, but that's, I don't know.

21:09

It's pretty violent to teach a young kid.

21:11

And then he even escalated to training

21:13

them with firearms and he taught

21:15

his sons how to shoot. Nothing inherently wrong

21:17

there. Think the stabbing of a brain.

21:20

That's all fine, but like in hand combat with

21:22

knives that early on, like. Yeah. That's

21:24

kind of weird. On the weekends,

21:26

he would take his sons to makeshift boot

21:28

camp sessions out in the wilderness. They would

21:31

bring their camping gear and their father would

21:33

teach them how to survive. Which again, that's

21:35

not inherently. Yeah, that's not the Boy Scouts

21:38

basically. Right, yeah. Nothing

21:40

is a

21:42

red flag here. I think maybe everything

21:44

together is a red flag, but nothing

21:47

singled out as a red flag really. I guess it's

21:49

different when it's out of fear. Yeah,

21:51

right. It's like we're doing this not because

21:53

it's just a good skill to have, but

21:55

no, we need this to survive when the

21:57

zombie apocalypse hits. Yeah, and the zombie apocalypse.

22:00

will hit right as he's telling him.

22:02

So that's the red flag. Which

22:04

to young kids I mean that's gonna fuck

22:06

them up. So yeah

22:09

Junior was so convinced he was putting his sons

22:11

through these training programs out in the woods. He

22:13

would put them through obstacle courses. Some days he

22:15

would show his sons how to cut off the

22:18

head and tail of a snake. Sometimes

22:20

he would force his sons to get down

22:22

on their stomachs and crawl across the forest

22:25

and then he would start shooting live rounds

22:27

above them. Trying to simulate this like violent

22:29

dystopian future where their lives were just constantly

22:32

at stake. And then after a full

22:34

day of physical training he would take their sons

22:36

back on the camper and then they would watch

22:38

zombie movies all night. Keep in

22:40

mind Junior was not working at this

22:42

time. He was currently on government assistance.

22:44

Other times he was selling his prescription

22:46

drugs for money but really

22:48

just most of his days he was just hanging

22:51

out on the couch obsessing over the

22:53

zombie apocalypse and feeding this information to

22:56

his sons. I assume he was on

22:58

disability after that accident. His shoulder. That's

23:00

a good call. I never found the

23:02

actual evidence of that but that would

23:04

be a good guess I'd say. And

23:08

then he even started he would always go out in

23:11

public with his nine millimeter handgun and

23:13

his waistband. So he was clearly getting

23:15

more paranoid as time went on. Because

23:17

at any point yeah you

23:19

never know. He'd be face to face with a zombie. If

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meal kit. When

25:26

Tina returned from jail she put up with

25:28

the new obsession with zombies in the prepper

25:30

lifestyle. Before long juniors drills got more intense.

25:33

He had programmed his sons to believe that the

25:35

end was near and they need to be

25:37

ready at all costs. They were essentially

25:39

living in a constant state of fear as

25:42

the end of the world was always looming and

25:44

at any moment their father could run an

25:46

intense drill to test how ready they really

25:48

were. He'd often run a drill early in

25:50

the morning where he set off an alarm and

25:52

timed how quickly they could get out of bed,

25:55

gather their supplies and weapons and get into the

25:57

camper van. He ran this drill so

25:59

often that his was

28:00

generally trying to turn his life around and

28:02

he believed that Tina had been the aggressor

28:05

in the household. Actually I have

28:07

a clip of Eldon Sr. talking about his son's

28:09

anger issues and Tina's violence in

28:12

the household. Do

28:14

you have any anger issues with him?

28:17

Oh I used to. Why do

28:19

you mean you used to? Well,

28:21

I used to just blow down

28:23

stuff and get really angry. When

28:26

was that? Oh

28:28

years ago, actually

28:31

with Tina. Because they

28:33

lived on Peach and Modesto and I helped

28:36

him buy a window and his lighting glass

28:42

door. Then once he moved over

28:45

on the east side of Modesto,

28:47

I helped him replace his lighting

28:49

glass door. Why that? Because

28:52

he said he couldn't afford it. No, but how did

28:54

they get wrong? Tina threw

28:56

a lamp the first time through

28:58

the door and the second

29:00

time she tried to push her chair through. And

29:04

he did a good thing. He

29:07

told Tina to do it. I didn't

29:09

believe him. Well, you're out of

29:11

the way because she said, messed

29:13

up like you. You know

29:15

your son, is it? Well, I'm thinking now,

29:17

yeah. Oh, maybe so. You're

29:19

thinking maybe then. Yeah. You don't know

29:21

for sure. You just hear what

29:24

he told you. Right. He told

29:26

me I know because I'm not, that's their

29:28

life. Did you see him get angry with

29:30

the kids? I'm

29:32

not in that way, you know. I need

29:34

your total honesty out there. I

29:36

know you do. I was violent. I

29:39

know I was. I forgot what maybe they talked about

29:41

this. I didn't know.

29:43

I'm trying to think of the time

29:45

he didn't lose his temper. Well,

29:51

he never hit those kids in front of you. He

29:53

didn't? No, but he would yell at them. What

29:56

would he yell? How would he yell at them? It's

29:58

the real high war. I

30:01

put the whole year over. Now,

30:09

he did not tell me but he had

30:12

to go and provide themselves. Okay. So

30:14

did you ever see him? I don't

30:16

know. He was physical. Uh, well,

30:18

not I think it was through and stuff.

30:20

Well, anything. No, not in front of me. That's

30:25

not to say it wouldn't happen when

30:27

nobody else was around. Kind of

30:29

just saying that I never seen him.

30:34

And what would he yell

30:36

at Johnny? No, no, no.

30:38

He would yell at the other one. He

30:40

yelled. It's very obvious

30:42

to me that Eldon Sr. is

30:45

just being defensive when

30:48

being asked these questions about his son. Yeah.

30:51

And, you know, he keeps saying not in front of

30:53

me, not in front of me. It's

30:57

clear that you had suspicions that this

30:59

was going on at least. And

31:02

all right, I'm not trying

31:04

to take the moral high road here.

31:06

I'm not trying to be super judgy,

31:09

but there was someone in my family

31:11

who was married and we had people

31:13

throwing lamps through glass doors and shattering

31:15

shit like that. There would be

31:17

like a full blown intervention with my family. Like

31:20

it would be like, okay, we're going

31:23

on family trial here. Something's

31:25

clearly wrong inside this household.

31:29

And that maybe that's

31:31

hard for him to admit that it's like

31:33

this was going on. So he just, yeah,

31:35

he is super defensive about it. Well, he

31:37

was quick to blame Tina too. Yeah. And

31:40

not be like, well, why is Tina mad? You

31:43

know, who's instigating these fights?

31:45

Right. Clearly, his

31:48

son in some way, shape or form. I

31:51

mean, he's doing what most

31:53

parents would probably do in the situation and

31:55

trying to not paint him

31:57

in a bad light. because

32:01

you wouldn't want, you know, if your son is

32:03

failing at something, it's kind of a reflection on

32:05

you, right? Right, right. So yeah.

32:08

Which before we continue, I also wanted to just

32:10

quickly shout out Explore With Us, friends

32:12

of the show, for doing

32:15

the FOIA request to get these files. They

32:19

did the hard work and paid the money to

32:21

get this interrogation footage that we're showing throughout

32:24

this episode. So shout out to them. So

32:27

eventually Junior and his sons who packed up

32:29

their prepper gear and personal belongings and moved

32:31

to Corda Lane, Idaho. Corda

32:34

Lane is a beautiful city about 30 miles

32:36

east of Spokane, Washington, and it sits on

32:38

the beautiful lake of Harrison Slough. It

32:41

has a laid back mountain city vibe, but Junior

32:43

didn't move there to lay back. The

32:45

areas beyond downtown are known to

32:47

have white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and preppers.

32:50

And this was the perfect place for Junior and

32:52

his sons to survive the zombie apocalypse. It

32:55

was also the perfect place to keep up his drug abuse. But

32:57

the problem was that he had no money

33:00

to support himself or his kids. So he

33:02

took advantage of the community in Corda Lane,

33:04

a charity organization by the name of Society

33:06

of St. Vincent de Paul, and ended up

33:08

providing him and his two sons with an

33:10

emergency housing unit at 1311 North First Street.

33:14

Here an Eldon Sr. would come and visit every once in

33:16

a while to see how things were going. It's

33:19

unclear if Eldon Sr. knew his son had a

33:21

serious problem or if he was blind to it,

33:23

but Junior's drug abuse had gotten so bad at

33:25

this house that one night he tried to get

33:28

into his truck and drive while incredibly high. His

33:30

son Eldon had to call emergency services on

33:32

his own father, and he was hauled away

33:34

in an ambulance in front of the entire

33:36

neighborhood. So around this

33:39

time, Eldon was 14 years old. He started

33:41

having even more serious behavioral problems. At

33:44

home, he would randomly assault his little brother,

33:46

Jonathan, for almost no reason at all. He

33:48

once stabbed Jonathan in the jaw with a

33:51

pencil, and he also stabbed him in the

33:53

back with a kitchen knife. Other

33:56

times, he would take his father's firearms and

33:58

shoot the neighbor's chickens in the... backyard

34:01

and so it's clear that Elden was just getting

34:03

worse by the day and obviously

34:05

having to call the police on your

34:07

own father. Things are not going great in

34:09

this household. Some of his

34:12

neighbors started noticing Elden wandering around the

34:14

neighborhood talking to himself. Other

34:16

times he was seen walking in

34:18

constant circles in his yard. His

34:20

father at some point also boarded up

34:22

the back door and windows of the

34:25

house and he taped paper over the

34:27

window panes. No one could see

34:29

inside and very little natural light got into

34:31

the house but you know

34:33

no one was reporting this suspicious behavior. It

34:36

was only a matter of time before

34:38

the dysfunctional Samuel household got much, much

34:41

worse. Elden had

34:43

also become violent at his new school

34:45

and his grades were so poor to

34:47

the point that the administration considered expelling

34:49

him. He often complained to

34:51

school faculty that he was too tired to

34:53

stay awake in class and even when he

34:55

was awake he suffered from intense migraines. After

34:58

he had a health examination done by the

35:00

school they discovered that several of his teeth

35:02

were rotting inside his head. His father wasn't

35:04

sending him to regular dentist appointments and his

35:06

parents never taught him how to brush his

35:08

teeth. He also

35:11

had terrible hygiene and barely took care

35:13

of himself. School staff

35:15

eventually referred Elden to a psychiatrist.

35:17

He was diagnosed with depression and

35:19

given a prescription for Prozac. We

35:22

know SSRI's antidepressants like Prozac they usually

35:25

take a few weeks to kick in.

35:27

I'm just wondering how the hell did

35:30

CPS not just take him

35:32

out of this home? Seriously and like

35:34

did the school not contact CPS and say

35:36

hey this kid isn't that like a glaring

35:38

problem where this terrible hygiene his

35:41

teeth are rotting out he

35:43

can't stay awake at school like is

35:45

no one contacting CPS here? Yeah it's

35:48

just sad that the systems

35:50

that are put in place to deal

35:53

with these types of situations just sometimes

35:55

don't work. Yeah unfortunately. And they fail

35:57

those that that need it most. But

36:00

then on March 24th, 2014, the

36:02

day that Eldon was prescribed the medication, he came

36:04

home from school and his father was in a

36:06

fit of rage. His father, Junior

36:08

was out in the front yard holding a handgun

36:10

and Eldon could hear his brother Jonathan inside the

36:12

house crying. In a strange

36:15

rage-filled stupor, Junior fired off a round

36:17

into the air. Eldon then tried

36:19

to convince his father to stop firing the weapon and

36:21

come back inside the house. He told him the police

36:23

were gonna show up if he didn't stop firing the

36:25

gun. Eldon was

36:27

able to get him inside, but his father's

36:29

rage and paranoia kept growing. And according to

36:31

Eldon, his father then punched or pushed him

36:33

in the chest. Junior then

36:35

told his son that the zombie apocalypse had

36:38

already begun. He needed the three

36:40

of them to pack up their go bags and head into

36:42

the foothills. Even though Eldon believed

36:44

in his father's theory that the zombie apocalypse would

36:46

arrive one day, he had seen that the neighborhood

36:48

was quiet and there wasn't a zombie in sight.

36:51

He could also tell something was off about his

36:53

father. And by now he was fully aware of

36:55

his father's drug abuse. So he told him he

36:57

needed to go to bed to sleep it off.

37:00

This only enraged his father even more. And according

37:02

to Eldon, his father then shoved him again. In

37:05

response, Eldon walked over to his father's loaded .45 caliber

37:08

handgun that was lying on the couch, picked

37:10

up and shot his father in the

37:12

stomach. When he dropped to

37:14

the floor, Junior tried crawling on his stomach toward

37:17

Jonathan's bedroom. He was also trying to

37:19

say something, but Eldon couldn't understand his father's words.

37:22

He then watched Junior slowly drag himself across the

37:24

floor and into Jonathan's room. Meanwhile,

37:27

Jonathan was hiding underneath his bed. Junior

37:29

then propped himself up against Jonathan's desk and

37:32

Eldon walked over to his father and fired

37:34

three more rounds right into his

37:36

father's head. After Junior was

37:38

dead, Eldon found Jonathan hiding underneath his

37:40

bed. He demanded that Jonathan come

37:42

out, but he wouldn't budge. Eldon

37:44

then fired several more shots at Jonathan under

37:47

the bed. Then he went

37:49

and grabbed his father's shotgun and fired at

37:51

Jonathan multiple times, possibly up to 10 different

37:53

times while reloading in between. After

37:56

he stopped firing, Jonathan was still barely

37:58

alive, but severely wounded. and

40:00

taken to the coroner. The medical

40:02

examiner's autopsy determined that Jonathan's cause

40:04

of death was blood loss from

40:07

the shotgun and machete wounds. As

40:09

for Junior, his autopsy revealed that

40:11

his liver was severely damaged from

40:13

drug use. He had several

40:15

different narcotics in his system,

40:17

OxyContin, three types of

40:20

benzodiazepines, a muscle relaxer,

40:22

and Ambien. The

40:25

examiner noted that Junior should

40:27

have been unconscious with

40:29

the amount of Ambien in his system. They

40:32

even wrote in their notes he

40:34

had consumed a quote blackout

40:36

level of Ambien. Which

40:39

that goes to show why he was in

40:41

such a bad mental state. Yeah, standing on

40:43

the, I mean who even knows what he

40:45

was seeing? Right? Yeah

40:47

seriously he could have been

40:49

having crazy visions. Yeah. While

40:53

police transported Eldon to the station, he could be

40:55

heard whispering things to himself in the back of

40:57

the squad car. Once he arrived

41:00

at police headquarters police began the initial

41:02

questioning process. He was so

41:04

disoriented that he couldn't remember his brother's age,

41:06

his phone number, or the address of the

41:08

house he had been living at for eight

41:10

months. One of the officers in the interrogation

41:13

room was already familiar with Eldon from school. So

41:16

after establishing that connection Eldon was more

41:18

comfortable with talking. He was then

41:20

read his rights and the questioning began. Which

41:23

the whole rights thing in this

41:25

case is first

41:28

of all the the officer that they brought in

41:31

I think was like a school resource officer or

41:33

something. Yeah. From the school and

41:35

they definitely brought him in because they

41:37

knew him. Yeah. Because they knew that

41:39

he'd be able to build that rapport with him because they already knew

41:42

what happened from the very beginning.

41:44

So they're really trying to approach this

41:46

with we need him to confess.

41:49

And when they're reading you know they give

41:52

him the paper to sign with his you

41:54

know Miranda rights on it and

41:56

he's very hesitant to sign it. He's like how long

41:58

is it gonna take? trying

44:00

to get that confession, but at the same time, it's

44:02

like this is a minor and

44:04

they have no representation and they're possibly

44:06

not in the right state

44:09

of mind. So, I don't know. It's

44:11

like exploiting someone at their weakest

44:13

point is what it really comes down

44:15

to. It's like, you know, they could give

44:18

him some time to just like think

44:22

or, you know, call himself down before sitting

44:24

down on top of that note that's like

44:26

immediately would jump into it and

44:28

it's very obvious from the

44:30

interrogation footage, as you'll see in a minute, that he's

44:33

just like, he's having a hard

44:35

time even focusing. I mean, the

44:37

trauma that he just put

44:39

himself through, right? Yeah. And

44:42

the things that he just saw and the feelings that

44:44

he's having, he just murdered his

44:46

father and his brother brutally.

44:50

I mean, that's gonna, I mean, it's gonna mess anybody up,

44:53

but a 14 year old kid, I mean,

44:56

I'm just like, it's just very obvious it affected

44:58

him deeply. Yeah. The

45:03

holidays are already hard enough, stressful

45:05

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45:07

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police to speak with minors alone. The

47:01

minor would have to make that request for an

47:03

attorney or guardian to be present, and

47:05

Eldon never does that. So

47:07

they went on with questioning, and

47:09

it wasn't long before Eldon confessed to killing

47:12

his father. Let's take

47:14

a look at some of that footage. So

47:17

do you know why you're in the interview room with

47:19

us today? Yes. Okay, why is

47:21

that? Murder's

47:23

him, okay? So explain to

47:25

me what happened. What do you mean by that? My

47:29

dad, he

47:32

was on his medication. Thanks. He

47:36

was gonna do the suitless. So,

47:41

he's done it before. He's

47:43

got an anti-baby, never, wanted

47:48

to do something very kind of, his

47:51

baby, that's him. He's

47:53

outside. He's

47:57

just, he's

47:59

taking guns out there. If

48:01

you're a zombie, then somebody

48:04

will go back inside. This was your dad?

48:06

Yeah. Then you told him to go

48:08

back inside? Yeah. He was in fact

48:10

that's the thing. He didn't think first. It was not the

48:12

apocalypse. He told us it wasn't. Okay? He

48:15

told me to get out. To

48:17

get out. To get out. To get

48:19

out. He told me to get out. He told me to get

48:21

out. No. No. My

48:25

dad said, What?

48:29

He started

48:32

walking towards me. He

48:35

hit me. He

48:38

hit me and had to get out. Okay?

48:43

He hit me again. That

48:45

shot. So

48:47

it's pretty quick to

48:49

admitting killing the father. He

48:51

has no hesitation with that. And

48:53

he even goes on to elaborate

48:55

a little bit more. He's

48:58

chasing me to my room. Then

49:00

he had the gun. He

49:03

hit me again and pulled the trigger. Did

49:07

he say anything? He

49:10

said, Why not? He

49:12

said, You killed him. So. Okay.

49:16

So you pulled the trigger? Then you

49:18

got the gun? Yes. Okay. Then

49:21

many times he pulled the

49:23

trigger. Well, that's that one. Okay.

49:25

It just shot three

49:28

times. I hit it three times.

49:31

Then what happened? It's

49:34

all right. We're doing good. I know what the tough deal

49:36

we're talking about. It's all right. You're

49:39

doing good. It's like you're giving us

49:41

everything we need. Yeah. Keep

49:43

going. So we're, I think that's

49:45

roughly 45 minutes into this interrogation and he

49:47

still really hasn't talked about Jonathan at all.

49:51

So they'll struggle with getting a

49:54

confession about Jonathan for a bit

49:56

here. And for why

49:58

that is. Who really

50:00

knows you know you could

50:03

try and get inside his head, but? Yeah,

50:06

and I think he's also I mean he's he's

50:09

a fairly smart kid considering all things

50:11

and I think he's The way

50:14

he's kind of laying out killing his father

50:16

is kind of create, you

50:18

know, he's trying to very

50:20

loosely create the Illusion

50:22

that this was self-defense right which again. We

50:25

don't know for sure what happened if if

50:27

There you know his father did hit

50:29

him or something like that, and that's

50:32

why he shot him Based

50:34

on what we what evidence

50:36

we have it seems like it was just he snapped

50:38

and he killed his father But he's trying to tell

50:41

the police like no my father was doing this to

50:43

me So I killed him, but Jonathan's a whole different

50:45

story All right, and there is a little weird

50:48

discrepancy in this interrogation

50:50

where? Yeah, first says

50:53

my father punches me and he's kind of

50:55

describing him punching him in the chest but

50:57

then They later the

50:59

police officers get him to say that he was

51:02

just being pushed I'm not

51:04

sure exactly if that's because they don't

51:06

want a self-defense Angle it's

51:08

a good point and they even get

51:10

him in like the written confession They

51:12

make sure that he writes my father

51:14

pushed me not punched me so there

51:17

is I don't know if that was a little tidbit

51:19

I found curious But

51:23

he's going to us John So

51:31

Where was John or Jonathan? Who's

51:35

better He's

51:38

better Yes,

51:40

it's all better and was that

51:42

good that yeah, okay? You

51:46

know what in there so child get out Don't

51:50

get out Yeah I'm

51:53

in the room problems

51:55

there. He's just

51:58

he's like right there I was

52:00

just thrown out of the house. Then

52:03

whenever I started

52:05

facing apart the

52:07

visions of an

52:10

entrance, she'd

52:12

sit in the log, try to grab it out. Like

52:18

with your hands? Yeah. Okay.

52:20

And what did you say to him? From

52:22

the gas. Okay. And what did

52:24

he do? He just didn't

52:27

want to go. Yeah,

52:30

what happened? He broke

52:32

them up. So sorry, I didn't

52:34

do good. But after that,

52:36

he really was broken. So

52:39

he's about your size, I mean, he's not too small.

52:43

And I know that he doesn't like, he's

52:45

got some issues with space, some spatial issues.

52:48

I know that he doesn't turn to be a wild friend to

52:50

like me and talk to me, so I was good to him.

52:53

So I'm sure if he was upset or

52:55

if you're yelling at him, I

52:57

can see how he might act,

52:59

but I don't know how he acted tonight. So I need

53:01

you to tell me. So

53:04

you told him to get out. You're

53:07

going to get out, same. Was

53:09

your dad still a problem, Tarzan? Yeah. Okay.

53:12

That was before he shot a

53:14

picture at him. So

53:17

they started crawling, throwing the get out. He

53:22

was holding the shotgun. Who

53:24

was? Okay. He

53:29

had it rolling and everything. He

53:32

started pointing at your heart. Just

53:35

trying to, just trying to. So

53:39

who shot? You didn't shot, John? Yeah. You

53:42

didn't? Was the shotgun? Yeah. Okay.

53:45

How many times? How am I

53:47

just trying to...

53:52

You started to die? Yeah.

53:54

Okay. Long time, though.

53:56

So he's claiming that his father was

53:59

a victim of the murder. had the shotgun

54:01

and was the one shooting at Jonathan.

54:04

He claimed that his father shot

54:06

Jonathan because he was just disoriented

54:08

on medication. That's his explanation

54:11

for what was going on. Then

54:14

Elden said he also he went outside the house

54:16

for a time and he could hear Jonathan screaming

54:19

and said that he just wanted to get away

54:21

from it. So he's saying that he wasn't even

54:23

inside when all this was happening. So

54:25

he for whatever reason he's

54:28

very quick to admit to killing

54:30

his father but he really struggles

54:32

with admitting what happened with Jonathan.

54:34

Then at some point during all this his

54:37

brain must just be scrambled eggs because then he's

54:40

asking about where am I gonna stay for the night.

54:42

He mentioned wanting to contact his

54:44

mom. He asked if he could go back

54:47

to his house and get some things which is

54:49

really odd and he specifically said he wanted to

54:51

go back get his Xbox 360 and

54:53

a copy of GTA 5. He was like

54:55

adamant about getting that

54:57

which to me I don't

55:00

know about you to me that sounds like he doesn't

55:02

doesn't really understand what's

55:04

going. No he's clearly not understanding the

55:06

gravity of the situation and I think

55:08

in his mind his explanation

55:10

for everything checks out right and

55:13

that this was self-defense. My father was

55:15

my father killed my brother he's gonna kill me so

55:17

therefore I had to kill my dad and I

55:20

think he thinks that the

55:22

cops are you know believing everything that he's

55:24

saying. Yeah and so he's just kind of

55:26

like it's you know

55:28

it's kind of that teenage brain coming back in

55:30

being like all right well I'm giving them

55:33

what they want so like when am I

55:35

getting out of here where am I gonna sleep

55:37

tonight video games. That's

55:39

a good yeah back to the games. That's some

55:41

good insight I like that take on it that

55:43

he's just like he thinks he has the narrative

55:46

figured out and he's ready to go. Yeah he's

55:48

clearly outsmarted the police in his

55:51

mind but the police are like

55:53

no bro you're not going anywhere. Yeah

55:55

and we got the forensic evidence to show that

55:57

yeah which they say that quite a bit like

55:59

no. we've got detectives there at the scene. They're

56:02

telling us what they're seeing is in jiving with what

56:04

you're telling us here in an interrogation room. And

56:07

so I think as time goes on, things

56:10

kind of start clicking for him, but they

56:13

want to ask him specifically about

56:15

the zombies, and they're probably

56:17

like, this is very bizarre. We don't

56:19

run into this kind of thing every day. Right,

56:22

and they had found all that

56:24

paraphernalia at the house. Right, all the weird

56:26

zombies. So there's some obsession here going on.

56:28

So they do ask him about the zombies.

56:31

Why didn't he know he was all upset and paranoid

56:33

about zombies if he didn't say anything? He

56:36

just heard medication, okay? And

56:40

so, but he didn't say anything about

56:42

zombies. He just attributed him taking that

56:44

medication as to, that's

56:47

what he thinks. Oh,

56:51

did he say anything about zombies tonight? Yeah.

56:55

What did he say? He said that

56:57

there might be zombies outside and stuff.

57:02

You proved. Did you believe him? No. Do

57:05

you think that I'm not trying to talk down with a few

57:07

people who've got zombies outside? You

57:10

don't think so? I was not. All right.

57:13

Do you know what they are? Yeah. Do

57:15

you believe in the zombie apocalypse?

57:18

Do you believe that's gonna happen? Probably.

57:21

Probably? What's going down

57:23

with Ukraine? Can

57:27

you talk to your dad about this type of stuff a while?

57:30

No, I just, he belongs

57:32

to myself. Well,

57:36

sounds like you and dad have that

57:38

in common though. That you guys believe

57:40

in the zombie apocalypse and he's

57:42

all like, wanting to prepare, but.

57:45

All that doomsday stuff, like, I'm asking

57:47

him. Yeah. Whatever you do

57:49

to prepare. His prepared thought

57:51

that trailers and all the

57:53

stuff he says, buying guns.

57:55

Oh, the crappy brown treasure. Calls

57:59

him out on the. quality of the trailer But

58:02

yet I'll didn't during this zombie talk

58:04

He referenced Ukraine for a split second and

58:06

that I was like I've no I have

58:08

no idea what he's talking about side to

58:10

look It up. I think what

58:12

he was talking about was there was this

58:15

media crisis between Russia and Ukraine that escalated

58:18

circa 2014 so about when

58:20

this was going on without

58:22

getting too deep into it basically many

58:26

activists were mocking Russians and Ukrainians

58:28

as being zombified or Programmed by

58:30

Russian state media, especially through their

58:33

TV channels who protesters would

58:35

sometimes dress up as zombies and

58:37

march in places like st. Petersburg

58:39

and there were these big protests

58:41

and So Eldon's only

58:43

14 of the time he's obsessed with zombies

58:45

and his dad is convinced them This is

58:48

bound to happen So he might

58:50

have not thought twice about what he was

58:52

actually seeing on TV or on the news

58:54

when they were showing these zombie Protesters so

58:56

he might have just thought that they

58:59

were real. Yeah. Yeah I'm sure

59:01

his dad was probably spouting all kinds of

59:03

crazy stuff about this too, right? Like see

59:05

son. There they are Yeah, you know it's

59:07

happening and not reading into anything about what

59:09

it actually was. Well, I mean, he's too

59:13

Too fucked up on drugs even feel to

59:15

process it probably true So

59:17

after the zombie explanations officers backtracked

59:20

what happened to Jonathan Eldon

59:22

stuck to his story saying that he was outside

59:24

while his father killed his brother when

59:26

the officers asked why he shot his brother He

59:28

claimed he didn't but they started to call

59:31

out inconsistencies with the story And

59:33

even when Eldon started getting closer to telling the truth,

59:35

he kept leaving details out He

59:37

admitted to swinging a machete and firing a shotgun

59:39

on his brother But his story didn't match the

59:41

crime scene evidence So the officers had

59:43

to go over what happened multiple times and

59:46

after an hour of questioning Eldon finally began

59:48

to tell the full truth about

59:50

what happened to Jonathan. I Understand

59:53

that it's traumatic and things like that But

59:57

at the same time I don't believe a young man

59:59

likes itself seem like a pretty smart

1:00:01

kid, you better know what

1:00:03

happened. So

1:00:06

I need you to be 100% honest with

1:00:08

me, because I have detectives down at

1:00:10

the scene that are telling me what

1:00:12

they see and what

1:00:15

they believe has happened, or has happened.

1:00:18

And so I need you to be 100% honest

1:00:20

with me about that, because some of the stuff

1:00:22

you're saying is contradictory of what the evidence is

1:00:25

telling us. Do you understand that? Yeah.

1:00:28

Usually the evidence doesn't lie.

1:00:31

Okay? Usually. And

1:00:33

I say that because sometimes it happens, but

1:00:36

in this case I don't think that it is. It's

1:00:39

not too hard to understand what happened. Fair

1:00:42

enough? But what we're

1:00:44

missing is exactly all the

1:00:46

details of what happened, and

1:00:49

we're missing basically

1:00:54

why it happened, the

1:00:56

real why and things

1:00:59

like that. So with

1:01:01

that being said, did you

1:01:04

shoot your brother? What?

1:01:07

You tell me I wasn't there. It's

1:01:09

a simple question. What you care about? I

1:01:11

don't know. I wasn't there, Elvin. Dude,

1:01:14

that's not the question. I guess.

1:01:16

Okay. So what

1:01:19

then did you shoot him with? I

1:01:21

think it was a shotgun. I know it's

1:01:23

shotgun. A few times? Yeah.

1:01:27

Okay. A few to me is three. Okay.

1:01:30

So how many times did you shoot him? Well,

1:01:33

I had a shotgun boot. Should

1:01:36

I tie it? Then

1:01:38

certainly try and get him

1:01:40

with a big. Yes. So

1:01:43

how many times do you think he had a shotgun?

1:01:47

And where? Legs.

1:01:51

Five times. You can

1:01:53

get him with a leg five times. He ate

1:01:55

five shots to the legs. I

1:01:57

don't know. I wasn't there. The

1:04:00

sports. You get in trouble? No. You

1:04:04

didn't get in trouble. You stabbed your brother in the back. Did

1:04:06

your dad know about it? I

1:04:09

think so. So where does this anger

1:04:11

come from? Him. Your

1:04:14

brother? Where

1:04:16

does anger come from your dad? Him.

1:04:22

You didn't have anger towards your dad? Well,

1:04:25

I didn't find that hard to believe when you just

1:04:27

shot your dad four times. So

1:04:30

where does anger come from your dad? He's for a

1:04:32

baby. And I've

1:04:34

heard you say that, but you haven't really

1:04:36

explained that. What do you mean he used

1:04:38

to beat you? Just beat me. I

1:04:41

loved him. But

1:04:44

next time I came after him, you

1:04:47

had decided that you were going to do something

1:04:49

about it. What did you decide you

1:04:51

were going to do? Shoot.

1:04:54

That's what you told yourself. Next

1:04:56

time he came at you, he had to shoot. When

1:04:58

did you first think that? Just

1:05:01

right at that point. When did that go? Go

1:05:05

to sleep. Just like

1:05:07

this night? Yeah. So

1:05:10

is it. I

1:05:13

noticed he is crying here. You

1:05:16

know, and I could be for

1:05:18

many reasons, but I noticed

1:05:21

it was like right when he's now telling

1:05:24

the truth about his traumatic experience and how

1:05:26

he hates his brother. But

1:05:28

he loves his dad. Yeah, he said he

1:05:30

loves his dad, which is peculiar. I mean,

1:05:32

we see that sometimes the

1:05:34

abuse, right? It's like you can still

1:05:36

love your abuser. So I think that's

1:05:39

probably playing into it here as well.

1:05:41

Hard to really take anything seriously what

1:05:43

he's saying now. True. I mean,

1:05:45

you just tell his mental head spaces. Just

1:05:48

gone. True. He's like

1:05:50

not even there. He's having trouble

1:05:52

just understanding the questions. It

1:05:55

does seem like the police are kind of like

1:05:57

trying to lead him a certain way too. They're

1:06:01

trying to get exactly what they need

1:06:03

out of him, but without really worrying

1:06:05

about how this is

1:06:07

affecting him. I

1:06:09

don't know. It's tough to watch.

1:06:11

Just a little more around. I don't know. That's

1:06:15

a tough position

1:06:17

because, yeah, you want the confession, but

1:06:19

I don't know. At what

1:06:21

cost here? I mean, I already

1:06:24

know what happens. I mean, they have the forensics.

1:06:26

They could have already got him. Yeah, I mean,

1:06:28

it's just like maybe give

1:06:30

him a moment to like breathe

1:06:32

and calm

1:06:35

down. I mean, he just seems like agitated.

1:06:39

He's kind of moving around. He's like

1:06:41

curling his toes and stuff. I

1:06:44

think he's almost getting frustrated with them for

1:06:46

continuing to probe him. Eldon

1:06:49

then proceeded to tell the officers how his

1:06:52

father abused drugs once a month or so.

1:06:54

Then after he had called the police on him, he feared

1:06:56

the abuse would escalate. He also admitted that

1:06:59

he hated his brother because his autism required

1:07:01

a lot of attention from his parents and

1:07:04

he thought that his dad wouldn't have been

1:07:06

addicted to prescription drugs and his mother wouldn't

1:07:08

have left him if his

1:07:10

brother was out of the picture. But

1:07:15

here's some more interrogation footage of

1:07:18

the police asking him how long he

1:07:20

had been thinking about killing his brother

1:07:22

and father. So

1:07:24

how long have you been thinking about hurting

1:07:27

your brother? A while. How

1:07:29

long is a while? Can

1:07:32

you tell me what kind

1:07:34

of thoughts you had when you think about

1:07:36

hurting your brother? You know, I'm hearing.

1:07:39

Okay. So,

1:07:41

what were your ideas on how to make that

1:07:44

happen? This

1:07:47

can't kill me from it. Huh? Can't

1:07:50

kill me from it. So,

1:07:52

in your thoughts, the way that

1:07:55

this needed to be, I'm going to go to your

1:07:57

brother to die. My mother wouldn't

1:07:59

have left. That's for my dad. Yes,

1:08:02

my dad. She's

1:08:04

really nice. Yeah.

1:08:08

I understand that one last. Who's here?

1:08:11

You were. What makes you really

1:08:13

bad? The most man thing that Jonathan

1:08:16

did, what was it? Like,

1:08:20

if I had let my dad

1:08:23

buy a candy bar for John, and I told

1:08:26

him not to eat it, and I

1:08:29

would walk back and eat it. Oh,

1:08:31

I can't tell him to eat it. Why

1:08:33

would you tell him not to eat it? Because I want

1:08:35

to eat it. All right. And he would just buy one

1:08:37

for Jonathan? Why

1:08:40

would you buy one for you? Oh, well, he did. So

1:08:42

you want it both? Yeah. All

1:08:45

right. Well, that's honest. Do

1:08:47

you think that's fair? For

1:08:49

me. All right, for you. That's a good

1:08:51

statement. Well, why for you is

1:08:53

that fair? It's good for me. Yeah. Well,

1:08:56

it's good for him. And

1:08:58

then if he said, if he didn't do what he

1:09:00

said, you'd be pissed at

1:09:03

him. I'd be pissed. Yeah. How

1:09:05

bad? Real pissed. You

1:09:07

ever fought with your brother before? No. He

1:09:10

thinks I'm throwing stuff out. You throw stuff

1:09:12

out? It's annoying stuff. He brings back from

1:09:15

school. Like, it's clapped hands and stuff.

1:09:17

He breaks that stuff. Throw it out. He

1:09:20

says, don't bring any of that. Why

1:09:23

do you want your dad to die? I

1:09:25

want him to kill me. And

1:09:28

so you're saying that you killed him so he wouldn't

1:09:30

kill you? He's going to kill

1:09:32

me all the time. How

1:09:35

about you? What

1:09:37

time is it? All

1:09:40

the different times. Okay,

1:09:43

and we talked about that a little bit,

1:09:45

but other than pushing and stuff like that,

1:09:47

you haven't told me anything that would lead

1:09:49

me to believe that your dad

1:09:51

was going to kill you. So

1:09:53

what am I missing? What time are

1:09:55

you waiting to have that back? I

1:10:01

was shocked. When

1:10:04

you were walking and he was crawling

1:10:06

through the brother's room and you saw him and he was

1:10:08

propped up, were you thinking, you know, how

1:10:11

we talked about it? I talked about, hey, we have these voices on

1:10:13

the side that say, well, I'm not going to let that happen again.

1:10:15

I can do that. Did you go

1:10:17

in there and say, I can save yourself. I'm going to kill him. Or

1:10:19

did you think that? What? What

1:10:21

did you think when you were walking to your brother's bedroom

1:10:23

with a gun in your hand? He

1:10:31

was a bad person. Okay. I

1:10:33

know that's not it. I

1:10:36

just knew what he was. He

1:10:38

was going to live. He said

1:10:40

to let her be. That's what he thought. Heavy

1:10:45

stuff. Yeah. And it's just a

1:10:47

lot of it just like doesn't make sense.

1:10:49

Like it just like the questioning is not

1:10:51

going through clearly and he's just like, he's

1:10:54

rubbing his eyes. He just come. I

1:10:57

don't know. I feel like he just like wants it

1:10:59

to stop at this point. He was like, know what

1:11:01

to say. Seems kind of disoriented. And it's a lot

1:11:03

of the police officers talking. This isn't really like we're

1:11:05

not getting like just a full blown confession here. It's

1:11:08

a lot of them. Yeah.

1:11:10

Well, you were thinking this, you were feeling this. Of

1:11:12

course it's not. Would be the word. Yeah. And

1:11:15

it kind of seems like a course confession. Yeah. As

1:11:18

you just heard in the footage, Eldon was fearful

1:11:20

that if his father had somehow survived this,

1:11:23

that he would kill him and then his

1:11:25

mother and even his grandparents. And

1:11:28

he ultimately admitted to the police that

1:11:30

he had no remorse for killing his father and

1:11:32

brother. But then he began crying

1:11:34

and later admitted that he quote, kind of

1:11:36

felt bad for killing his father, but not

1:11:39

his brother. He also admitted that he imagined

1:11:41

killing his father every time he was

1:11:43

physically abused. As for his brother, he claimed

1:11:45

he never thought about killing him, but he had

1:11:47

imagined a better life for

1:11:49

himself as his brother was dead. After

1:11:52

almost two hours of interrogation, Eldon finally

1:11:54

brought up that he stabbed his brother

1:11:56

about 15 times with a

1:11:58

knife after using a shot. shotgun and

1:12:01

machete. This absolute

1:12:04

overkill showed police how much

1:12:06

rage Eldon had towards his

1:12:08

brother. Here's what he had

1:12:10

to say. What?

1:12:30

I don't know. Come on.

1:12:32

You're smart. You're smart. Give us a give us

1:12:34

a gift. Yes. Yeah. What

1:12:36

would you do? What should

1:12:38

happen to someone that just killed their brother and their father?

1:12:40

Die. Do

1:12:44

you think your person should die? Yeah. Why?

1:12:49

I have problems with surface. Do

1:12:52

you think you deserve that? Yeah. Do

1:12:55

you think you deserve to die because you killed

1:12:57

your brother? You're dead. Yeah. Okay.

1:13:01

That's some heavy shit. The

1:13:05

police aren't holding back on him just despite

1:13:07

his age. You know, like, what do you think should happen to you? Yeah,

1:13:10

which is kind of an unnecessary question

1:13:12

here. Why do we even need that?

1:13:15

Very much so. But it does clearly

1:13:17

give you maybe a little bit of his

1:13:19

mind space in that moment where... Well,

1:13:22

it's crazy. He almost does a 180 because he's

1:13:24

like, I want to go back to California because

1:13:26

maybe he interpreted the question as what do you

1:13:28

want to have? To happen. To happen versus

1:13:30

like, what's the reality of what's going to happen to you? Yeah. And

1:13:33

then it's a complete opposite

1:13:36

of just going back to California. Yeah.

1:13:38

He thinks he should die. So

1:13:40

here's a little more controversy. They didn't

1:13:43

run a drug test on Eldon before the

1:13:45

interrogations, and it wasn't until three weeks later

1:13:47

they finally ran a hair sample drug test

1:13:49

on him. Found that

1:13:51

he had Benadryl, Lorazepam, and Prozac in his

1:13:53

system. Benadryl,

1:13:56

it's used to treat allergy symptoms. Sometimes

1:13:58

it can also be used for... Recreationally as

1:14:00

a psychedelic people get hallucination off of

1:14:02

it if you take enough of it

1:14:06

Larazepam is typically for anxiety which

1:14:08

Elden was prescribed You can also

1:14:10

abuse this and use it recreationally

1:14:12

and Prozac is an SSRI Anti-depressant

1:14:15

you really can't use that

1:14:17

recreationally What was strange

1:14:20

is that he also had selexa

1:14:22

which is another SSRI in his

1:14:24

system, which he wasn't prescribed Mmm.

1:14:27

So what after police started

1:14:29

thinking about why this would be They

1:14:32

thought that his father might have been

1:14:34

stealing his Larazepam to abuse it and

1:14:36

then he was replacing the pills with

1:14:39

Alexa fucked Yeah So

1:14:42

still it's unclear why police didn't drug

1:14:44

test him immediately since they

1:14:46

discovered out literally It's like pill bottles

1:14:48

everywhere all over this house. Why wouldn't

1:14:50

they drug test him? I

1:14:53

don't know. My theory is that Well,

1:14:56

it might negate their whole confession, right? So

1:14:58

they just might throw it out exactly So

1:15:01

they were like well, let's not deal with

1:15:03

that Let's just get him in here as

1:15:05

fast as possible and get him to confess

1:15:07

as fast as possible And they clearly like

1:15:09

put the pressure on him. Yeah, and

1:15:11

like they have them cornered Yeah, they're and they're

1:15:13

like, you know, just hounding him with

1:15:15

question after question after question But

1:15:18

after the interrogation concluded Elden was initially

1:15:20

charged with first-degree murder of his father

1:15:23

But that was later dropped a second degree

1:15:25

murder during a preliminary hearing because there was

1:15:28

enough evidence to prove premeditation Elden

1:15:31

was also charged with first-degree murder of

1:15:33

his brother Jonathan the

1:15:35

next big question for prosecutors was

1:15:38

Should Elden go to a juvenile

1:15:40

or adult detention center if convicted?

1:15:43

The prosecution wanted to try Elden as an adult

1:15:45

and they argued that the violent nature of

1:15:47

his crimes made him too dangerous for a

1:15:50

juvenile facility which You

1:15:53

know, it's a big point of contention for

1:15:55

people very controversial Charging,

1:15:57

you know sending a kid

1:15:59

essentially 14 year old to

1:16:01

an adult penitentiary. Yeah. My argument

1:16:04

for this is that if he's

1:16:06

too dangerous for a juvenile facility,

1:16:08

why is that? Why don't we

1:16:11

have max security juvenile facilities? Yeah.

1:16:13

Why wouldn't there be some or

1:16:15

separation or something? Yeah, exactly. Segregation,

1:16:18

yeah, they do that in prison

1:16:20

with adults. They'll segregate adults from

1:16:22

other adults. So it confuses

1:16:25

me why we can't do that with juveniles.

1:16:27

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1:16:51

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1:18:35

The defense argued for a blended sentence They

1:18:37

said he could be sent to a

1:18:40

juvenile facility until he was 21 years

1:18:42

old and then reevaluated for probation or

1:18:44

adult prison But in the meantime,

1:18:46

they placed Eldon into a adult

1:18:48

facility while he waited his trial

1:18:51

But he had to be kept isolated from the general population Obviously

1:18:54

for his own safety I mean putting

1:18:56

a 14 year old in gen pop is I mean

1:18:58

with adult criminals Yeah, that crazy so that

1:19:01

was the stipulation was he has to be

1:19:03

kept Out of sight

1:19:05

and he cannot communicate with any of

1:19:07

any of the other adult inmates So

1:19:11

they just figured we'll just throw him

1:19:13

in solitary confinement for 70 days Which

1:19:17

that's crazy. I mean, we know we're

1:19:19

dealing with a horrendous crime here But

1:19:22

this is wild to put that into

1:19:24

perspective most incarcerated inmates spend about 30

1:19:26

days max Total

1:19:30

during their entire incarceration in

1:19:32

an alter confinement solitary

1:19:34

confinement and he spent 70 days straight Right

1:19:37

to God during this

1:19:40

time. He lost a ton of weight. He said

1:19:42

he even began hallucinating Since

1:19:45

he was in this tiny small cell

1:19:47

all day His vision began to deteriorate

1:19:49

because I've actually heard of this happening

1:19:51

to Men who are

1:19:53

in submarines for too long since you

1:19:55

literally your eyesight. You're only looking maximum

1:19:58

like 20 feet on a submarine sometimes,

1:20:01

yeah, your eyes will just slowly deteriorate and

1:20:03

when you get out of the submarine, you

1:20:05

can't see very far. Wow. So

1:20:07

this is what was happening to him and

1:20:09

the isolation affected his social skills and behavior,

1:20:12

which were already terrible to begin with. Did

1:20:14

they look at his talk screen to

1:20:17

see that he was on these SSRIs

1:20:20

and other medications to just

1:20:23

try to like at least find somewhere. There's got to

1:20:25

be a cell in a wing of the prison that

1:20:27

is... You would think. A little less

1:20:29

busy, right? There's got to be other options, but

1:20:31

to just throw him in solitary confinement, I mean,

1:20:34

damn. A child in solitary confinement for 70

1:20:36

days. It's wild to me.

1:20:39

And again, I understand

1:20:41

the gravity of these crimes. Yeah, they're to

1:20:44

be locked up. For sure. The solitary confinement,

1:20:46

is that necessary? It seems like torture. I'll

1:20:49

say it. It just seems wrong what they're

1:20:51

doing here. Corrections

1:20:53

officers noticed that he was withdrawn and

1:20:56

weird after he got out. Yeah,

1:20:58

make sure. After

1:21:00

leaving solitary, they sent him to a

1:21:02

juvenile facility and it's reported that he

1:21:05

supposedly thrived here. He was kept separated

1:21:07

from everyone. He had his own

1:21:09

cell and separate meals. He was able to

1:21:11

go to school and take PE. When

1:21:14

his trial approached, he was sent back to

1:21:16

adult prison and solitary confinement. It's unclear why

1:21:18

he was kept here for so long. I

1:21:22

mean, it might've been due to behavior. I

1:21:25

don't know. It seems strange that

1:21:27

he would be thriving in juvenile and then

1:21:29

he would still have behavior probably.

1:21:32

Maybe because he didn't want to be there? Yeah, right. And

1:21:34

he knows what juveniles detention facilities like.

1:21:36

So he's like, why am I here?

1:21:38

Yeah. Like back in the

1:21:40

hole. Seriously. Yeah. And

1:21:42

who wouldn't have behavioral problems after being in

1:21:45

solitary for 70 days straight? It's crazy. Or

1:21:47

it might've been just to legally protect the

1:21:49

facility under the terms, which Elden had to

1:21:52

be kept separate from everyone else in

1:21:54

the adult prison. So it could be a

1:21:56

mix of both. His trial began

1:21:58

in January, 2016. and

1:22:00

lasted about three weeks, Eldon

1:22:02

could not plead insanity, which I didn't

1:22:04

know this because Idaho had abolished the

1:22:06

insanity plea. Oh, wow. 1982. Yeah. The

1:22:11

defense tried to throw out the

1:22:13

taped confession evidence by claiming that

1:22:15

Eldon did not, quote, knowingly, intelligently

1:22:17

and voluntarily waive his Miranda rights

1:22:19

and his statements to the police

1:22:22

were not voluntary. End quote. I

1:22:24

kind of believe, you know, kind of tend to side

1:22:26

with that argument, because if you watch

1:22:28

the footage, it's just. Yeah,

1:22:31

they really did not explain

1:22:34

his rights to him. Yeah. And he just

1:22:36

doesn't seem right during that whole

1:22:38

thing. They claim that

1:22:40

he was not mentally fit to sign a Miranda agreement

1:22:42

at the time. But unfortunately,

1:22:44

this motion was later suppressed because Eldon

1:22:46

had refused to meet with a state

1:22:49

mental health expert to prove that he

1:22:51

was not mentally fit at the time.

1:22:53

So that's just could have helped himself.

1:22:55

But yeah, for whatever reason.

1:22:57

Yeah. But during the trial,

1:23:00

more than 200 people testified,

1:23:02

including Eldon's mother, Tina. Her

1:23:04

testimony showed the jury how horrific their household

1:23:07

was before she left. Junior's

1:23:09

abuse was escalating and their sons were exposed to

1:23:11

violence and violent media as early as four or

1:23:13

five years old. Two of Eldon's

1:23:15

previous teachers were even brought in from Lakes Magnet

1:23:18

Middle School, and they mentioned how he struggled in

1:23:20

school. His grades were poor and he was often

1:23:22

absent. But they also mentioned that he was typically

1:23:24

quiet, polite, and he tried to learn when he

1:23:26

was there. A local pediatrician

1:23:29

and dentist also testified to explain how

1:23:31

poor Eldon's health was, including

1:23:33

his father's beatings, only eating one

1:23:35

meal a day, some days, migraines,

1:23:38

nausea, blurred vision, congestion and rotting

1:23:40

teeth. The prosecution focused on

1:23:42

the severity of the crimes and how

1:23:45

violent Eldon's actions were. He'd used multiple

1:23:47

weapons against his family members with the full

1:23:49

intention of brutally killing them. The

1:23:52

defense argued that his father had given Eldon some

1:23:54

of his prescription medication that had altered his state

1:23:56

of mind at the time of the crimes, Eldon

1:24:00

killed his father in self-defense and killed

1:24:02

his brother in rage that should have

1:24:04

been considered as manslaughter, not murder. In

1:24:07

the end, the jury found Eldon Gail Samuel

1:24:09

III guilty on both counts, and he was

1:24:11

ordered to be held in the juvenile detention

1:24:13

facility. While there, he gained back

1:24:15

his weight and his social skills improved. Staff

1:24:17

at the juvenile facility claimed that Eldon was an

1:24:20

upstanding inmate, and his grades in school improved as

1:24:22

well. His sentencing was in April

1:24:24

2016, and the court listened to

1:24:26

seven hours of testimony before the judge decided whether

1:24:29

to send Eldon to adult or

1:24:31

juvenile prison. His mother Tina

1:24:33

said that Eldon was all she had left, and

1:24:36

she would give her life in the place of her

1:24:38

son if she could. Eldon

1:24:40

then made a statement to the courtroom saying, quote, I'm

1:24:43

not the same person I was two years ago.

1:24:45

I've changed physically, spiritually, and emotionally. I feel like

1:24:47

a whole new person, but that doesn't excuse what

1:24:50

I did that night. I lost my

1:24:52

dad and my brother, Johnny, my own

1:24:54

little brother. I only asked for

1:24:56

mercy and righteousness. The

1:24:58

prosecution admitted that Eldon was a product of

1:25:00

his upbringing, which, yeah,

1:25:03

clearly. But he

1:25:05

needed to spend some time away from society as

1:25:07

punishment for the crimes he committed. In

1:25:10

the end, Judge Benjamin Simpson took

1:25:12

everything into account, including the state

1:25:14

psychiatrist claim that Eldon suffered from

1:25:16

reactive attachment disorder. Reactive

1:25:18

attachment disorder, this is straight from the

1:25:21

Mayo Clinic, is a rare

1:25:23

but serious condition in which an infant

1:25:25

or young child doesn't establish healthy attachments

1:25:27

with parents or caregivers. Reactive

1:25:30

attachment disorder may develop if the

1:25:32

child's basic needs for comfort, affection,

1:25:34

and nurturing aren't met, and loving,

1:25:37

caring, stable attachments with others are

1:25:39

not established. With appropriate

1:25:41

treatment, children who have reactive attachment

1:25:43

disorder may develop more stable and

1:25:45

healthy relationships with caregivers and others.

1:25:48

Parents for reactive attachment disorder include

1:25:51

learning how to create a stable,

1:25:53

nurturing environment and providing

1:25:55

positive child and caregiver interactions.

1:25:58

Parent or caregiver what

1:28:00

if Jonathan hadn't died, so at

1:28:02

least understandable, while not excusable,

1:28:04

with respect to your father given his

1:28:06

history of treatment of you. He

1:28:10

then proceeded to sentence Eldon to life for

1:28:13

his brother's murder, 20 years fixed with 5

1:28:15

years indeterminate, and 15 years 10 years fixed

1:28:18

with 5 years indeterminate for the murder of

1:28:20

his father. Since both sentences

1:28:22

were to be served concurrently, Eldon would

1:28:24

have to at least serve 20 years before

1:28:26

being considered for parole. The next

1:28:29

issue was figuring out where to send Eldon,

1:28:31

an adult or juvenile facility. The

1:28:33

judge first sent him to solitary in an adult

1:28:35

prison because he felt Eldon was too dangerous for

1:28:37

a juvenile facility, but after back and forth arguing

1:28:39

for a month, they finally decided to place him

1:28:42

in a juvenile facility until he was 18 years

1:28:44

old. Eldon

1:28:46

quickly appealed, but in 2019 the Supreme

1:28:48

Court upheld a sentence, and today

1:28:50

Eldon is 23 years old serving his

1:28:52

time in the Idaho Correctional

1:28:54

Institution in Orofino. He

1:28:57

will be eligible for parole on March 24, 2034.

1:29:28

You can pin it on the public

1:29:32

services for failing, but also at

1:29:34

home, the core root of this,

1:29:36

his parents completely failed him. Eldon

1:29:39

Senior, the grandfather, would have failed

1:29:41

him. I'm

1:29:47

sure his mother has tons of regret

1:29:49

for not doing more. Yeah.

1:29:52

And I wonder if she knew that

1:29:55

this was ultimately what was going to happen

1:29:57

or something terrible is going to happen. How

1:30:00

many weapons they had in that house, how many

1:30:02

drugs were being taken in the house, and

1:30:05

just the violent media being consumed? I

1:30:07

mean, it doesn't always

1:30:09

surprise me. I was gonna ask you that. When

1:30:11

was the first time you watched a

1:30:14

hyper-violent movie? Do you remember? Probably

1:30:18

like 14, 15. Not in my house, but I was

1:30:20

like, yeah. My parents were semi-strict

1:30:24

on what I could watch. I

1:30:26

watched The Matrix when I think I was like 12,

1:30:30

and I think I watched Jaws when I was 12. But

1:30:33

most R-rated movies, I couldn't watch.

1:30:36

I could only watch certain movies with them, but

1:30:39

I think I really couldn't watch R-rated movies until I was

1:30:41

like 13, 14. What about you, Daniel? I

1:30:46

mean, I grew up in a house where I wasn't allowed to watch

1:30:49

SpongeBob until I was like 10, but I

1:30:51

did end up watching the original Predator

1:30:53

at a friend's house, maybe

1:30:55

like 9 or 10 years old. Okay. Yeah,

1:30:58

and he was subjected to this stuff when

1:31:00

he was four or five, they estimated. That's

1:31:03

so early. That's so bad. I couldn't

1:31:05

even imagine showing. I

1:31:07

mean, even now, we're starting to watch movies and stuff,

1:31:09

and we're like, is this gonna

1:31:12

be okay? It's like R-rated PG, but we're like,

1:31:14

is this good for him? It's the word crap,

1:31:16

and you're like, no. Yeah. But

1:31:18

yeah, so I can only imagine also how

1:31:20

desensitized he was to violence by the time

1:31:23

he was in his teenage

1:31:25

years. I mean, I'm

1:31:27

not defending him. I'm just saying this was

1:31:29

his reality that he was

1:31:31

living in, so it's not really a

1:31:33

surprise to me when something ultra-violent happens

1:31:36

when just your whole life is consumed

1:31:38

by violence. And he doesn't even

1:31:40

really seem to be that shocked by what

1:31:42

he did. No. You know what I mean?

1:31:45

He's shocked that he's in the position he's in,

1:31:47

but I

1:31:50

don't know. I mean, unless it's just, I mean, he

1:31:52

could just be dealing with it all internally, but what

1:31:54

he probably is. But externally,

1:31:56

he doesn't seem overly trumpled.

1:32:00

was traumatized by what he just did.

1:32:02

Yeah, and he's showing how

1:32:04

he's shooting his brother in the sound

1:32:06

effects that, at the wild, to me

1:32:08

that someone who would just go through

1:32:10

something like that is recreating it in

1:32:12

that type of way. Well, and to be

1:32:15

fair, at one point, they did ask him

1:32:17

to demonstrate using the

1:32:19

machete. That's right, they made

1:32:21

him get up. Yeah, they made him get up and he

1:32:24

started going like, no, that's not how hard you were doing

1:32:26

it. And he does it again harder. I

1:32:29

mean, the cops were totally exploiting him. And we're

1:32:31

like, we're gonna get all the evidence we need. So

1:32:33

this is like clear cut, this is how he did

1:32:35

it. And

1:32:38

I do think there was a violation

1:32:40

of his rights there. And

1:32:43

it's a shame that there's not, at

1:32:47

the very least, I feel like children should

1:32:49

have a

1:32:52

lawyer present. A media lawyer. Like that should just be

1:32:54

a given. Because like any adult, in a lot of

1:32:56

the cases we've covered lately, Gran Amato and stuff, they'll

1:32:58

talk to police, but then at a certain point, they're

1:33:01

like, they shut up and they know their rights. And

1:33:03

they're like, I'm gonna be quiet now until

1:33:05

I get my attorneys involved. But like

1:33:07

a kid just doesn't understand. Like there's no way a kid, 13,

1:33:10

14 years old, is gonna

1:33:12

understand the like gravity of

1:33:14

the situation they're in and how important

1:33:17

it is to have legal representation,

1:33:20

especially in this kind of case where you're facing life

1:33:22

in prison or the death penalty. Yeah,

1:33:25

I didn't, I mean, when I was thinking of myself, I

1:33:28

didn't know what, like I know my rights.

1:33:30

And I didn't know, I had

1:33:32

never seen an episode of Law and Order until I was

1:33:34

like 15. So even then,

1:33:36

the process wasn't even familiar to me

1:33:39

at all. So how would I even

1:33:41

know? Well, even like interacting with

1:33:43

police too. I mean, unless you're in trouble a lot

1:33:45

as a teenager, maybe

1:33:47

you had a few run-ins with police, but

1:33:49

like 14 years old, I definitely didn't have

1:33:51

any run-ins with police at that early on. So

1:33:53

you don't know. Like,

1:33:56

cause they really come across as like being on your

1:33:58

side and like kind of, like being there

1:34:00

to help you through it in a way. And

1:34:03

they're like, we wanna help you. And they say things

1:34:05

like that. And I feel like for a

1:34:07

kid, you're just gonna, you know, probably take

1:34:09

them for what they're saying, but

1:34:12

ultimately they're gonna use it against you 100%

1:34:14

every time. They're sure, and they did in

1:34:16

this case. Like that's what happened. And

1:34:19

I think the reason we're talking

1:34:21

about this, because yes, he did do

1:34:23

it. And it is a horrific crime

1:34:25

that's, I can't imagine

1:34:28

the level of violence that was found in that

1:34:30

house. But the problem

1:34:32

is that there are repercussions to things like

1:34:34

this. So we take this kid in this

1:34:36

interrogation room and we go through all of

1:34:39

this and we see how violent he is

1:34:41

and getting him to say

1:34:43

all these things, I don't know, maybe

1:34:45

that set the groundwork for

1:34:47

why he ended up in solitary

1:34:49

for 70 days straight, right? Like,

1:34:52

I think there's maybe a correlation between

1:34:55

getting him to say all these things and

1:34:57

then throwing him in solitary and

1:34:59

throwing away his pee for a while, right?

1:35:01

So even though he did do it,

1:35:04

I mean, he's still a child at the end of the

1:35:06

day. We've

1:35:08

brought this up before that. Why

1:35:10

is there even an

1:35:13

option to try kids as adults?

1:35:15

It doesn't really make any sense.

1:35:17

If we have the juvenile process,

1:35:19

why isn't that just revised to

1:35:21

include something like this? Rather

1:35:23

than saying this is too horrific, we just

1:35:25

need to bump him to adult. Yeah,

1:35:29

yeah. It's, well,

1:35:31

it's an antiquated system for one. And

1:35:33

oftentimes the judge does use the violence,

1:35:38

the violent aspect of the crime makes

1:35:41

him a danger to all other

1:35:43

juveniles. But it's like, there's

1:35:46

enough violent juveniles that maybe you

1:35:48

need a violent juvenile center.

1:35:50

You know what I mean? It's hard to send

1:35:52

those that are extremely violent. So

1:35:55

yeah, it is very weird, because I

1:35:57

think, I mean, you ask any psychologist

1:36:00

and be like the brain is, you

1:36:02

know, I mean your brain isn't done developing till like your late

1:36:04

20s I think. So. I

1:36:07

still feel like my brain's developing. But

1:36:09

yeah, well like 14 to even like 18 is

1:36:13

such a major jump. Yeah, I

1:36:15

mean I was so stupid back

1:36:18

then. I knew so little and

1:36:20

especially I didn't even come from an abusive

1:36:22

household. So adding all these layers on top

1:36:24

of it, yeah he just never had a

1:36:27

chance. No, and I mean I

1:36:29

think the punishment fits the

1:36:32

crime in this particular case.

1:36:34

I think 20 years for what he did

1:36:36

is adequate time

1:36:38

to spend. And

1:36:40

then nine bars. Do you think he'll get out

1:36:42

on parole when the time comes? I have a

1:36:44

feeling he will. I mean,

1:36:46

you know, a lot of factors go

1:36:49

into paroling and I

1:36:51

think one of the, obviously how you are in

1:36:53

prison and it seems like he's kind of a

1:36:56

model prisoner and he's really tried to like, you

1:36:59

know, the one positive rehabilitate himself and like

1:37:01

get kind of further his

1:37:04

life in a positive way. Which

1:37:06

is always good to see. And then,

1:37:09

you know, the victim's family usually comes

1:37:11

into proling someone

1:37:13

and his family is supportive of him probably

1:37:15

of getting out and I mean

1:37:18

he'll be, what, how old when he

1:37:20

gets out in 2034? He

1:37:23

would be 30. In his 30s? Yeah.

1:37:27

Or 34. So he's still, I mean that's

1:37:29

still a lot of life to

1:37:31

live and I just hope for his

1:37:33

sake that he's, he's

1:37:36

been able to. Even if he didn't

1:37:38

get paroled, we do know that in that

1:37:40

juvenile facility that he was thriving. So

1:37:43

maybe that structured life for him, you

1:37:45

know, even if he doesn't get paroled,

1:37:48

if he does get paroled, I hope that he

1:37:50

can find that same structure on

1:37:52

the outside, right? Yeah, I

1:37:55

think some people would argue too, like is

1:37:57

he too dangerous too? is

1:40:01

if he does get out, is

1:40:04

he gonna end up right back in the same spot

1:40:06

again? Yeah, where's he gonna go? Where's he gonna go?

1:40:08

He has his mother and maybe

1:40:10

his grandfather. He doesn't have a lot of family

1:40:13

support. Is the drugs gonna be

1:40:15

an issue again? Hopefully, there's

1:40:17

drugs in prison, as we all

1:40:19

know. So is he gonna be

1:40:21

able to get clean and sober when he comes

1:40:23

out and completely turn his life

1:40:25

around? Or is there potential for him to fall

1:40:28

back into that dark place, fall

1:40:30

back into the obsession with zombies again when

1:40:32

he has access? Once he gets access to

1:40:34

video games again, is he gonna start playing

1:40:36

GTA and all the zombie games again? And

1:40:39

that obsession gonna be reignited and that paranoia

1:40:41

gonna set in. Could he

1:40:43

find himself in a position again where he loses

1:40:46

his mind and essentially becomes his father? I

1:40:52

think it's a possibility. And just the, I

1:40:54

think the nature of him killing his brother really worries

1:40:56

me, because that's deep, deep rooted

1:40:59

issues that he has. And I worry about

1:41:01

him. Is he gonna be able to overcome

1:41:03

that? Or is that evil

1:41:05

within? Is that gonna

1:41:07

leave him or is that gonna come out and show its

1:41:10

ugly head at a later time?

1:41:12

I mean, being programmed that young for

1:41:14

that long, they'd even have a chance.

1:41:16

Yeah, that would be an incredibly hard

1:41:18

mold to break. I'm of

1:41:20

the opinion, I think it just comes down

1:41:22

to if you think people can fundamentally change

1:41:24

from when you're 14 to if you're 34,

1:41:27

let's say, which

1:41:30

I think he can. Seems

1:41:32

like a very hard, long road, but I

1:41:36

would have faith that he can change.

1:41:39

I don't necessarily have faith in the system to

1:41:42

evaluate him on that change. I

1:41:47

don't know. It's such a horrific

1:41:49

crime at the same time. And

1:41:52

potentially, if there

1:41:54

is something along the way where his evaluation

1:41:56

isn't accurate and he does get out and

1:41:58

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