Michael Kruger is a New Testament scholar and seminary president. He believes the church needs strong pastors who are also gentle shepherds--prized for their character over their giftedness. In this conversation with Warren Smith, Kruger warns against the lure of celebrity status that has led many pastors to ruin. His newest book is: Bully Pulpit: Confronting the Problem of Spiritual Abuse in the Church

Listening In is a listener supported program produced by WORLD Radio. Additional support comes from Summit Ministries. Now We Live invites and equips Christians to propel faith into action. This free, worldview Bible study will spark rich discussions about some of life’s most foundational questions. These six videos from Summit Ministries offer life-on-life discipleship for churches, small groups, and families. Get free access today at summit.org.