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any little girl who's practicing their speech on

1:43

the telly, you never know. I'm

1:58

David Canfield and I'm here for this week's

2:00

interview episode with Richard Loss and Hey Richard

2:03

Hello! We're. Going to start out

2:05

as week's episode with my interview with Kiefer

2:07

Sutherland who is the scene stealing star of

2:09

the Caine Mutiny Court Martial a television movie

2:11

directed by the late William Friedkin which is

2:14

now streaming on Paramount Plus was showtime. I'm

2:16

still getting used to pay for food that

2:18

new name for showtime. Ah and a little

2:21

bit later we have an interview with and

2:23

become odd the star of one day with

2:25

to streaming on Netflix but richer think we're

2:27

both fans of Can Mutiny Court Martial this

2:30

new take on the film ah of course

2:32

the original one start Humphrey Bogart. And

2:34

Kiefer Sutherland as stepped into the role

2:36

of Captain Queen in the I was

2:39

it quits himself quite well he i

2:41

would sit ups are doubly grateful for

2:43

this movie because most for one thing

2:45

it's well made and very well activating.

2:47

particularly my Kiefer Sutherland, but also because

2:49

it was the perfect thing I came

2:51

home for from holiday Thanksgiving or Christmas

2:53

last year with enough screener links and

2:55

other stuff and my dad just wasn't

2:58

really interested in any assists. And then

3:00

I was like way I think that

3:02

Caine Mutiny movies on Showtime and. So

3:04

he was like oh yeah I know I know

3:06

that that was a player is a movie and

3:08

so we put it on and I was so

3:10

blown away by how good it has happened. Telling

3:12

it is you know it's the last film by

3:14

great director of but really key for settlement particular

3:16

it's a very is playing very out of character

3:18

like out of type I guess and am I

3:20

think he really pulls it off and and some.

3:23

Yeah. He's had a a long

3:25

history of playing characters who aren't exactly

3:27

the most likeable that that can go.

3:30

Even Baptists, teenagers, and movies like Stand

3:32

By Me or and as we're talking

3:34

it's it's something that he says as

3:36

wait quite heavily on him. The

3:40

thing I didn't understand it's his team

3:42

was that people take their movies really

3:44

seriously and they take them really personal.

3:46

I have had occasion where you know

3:48

someone would not shake my hand because.

3:51

Of. A part that I plays. But.

3:53

With this one in a quick

3:55

is is a fascinating figure because

3:57

there is this exterior of com.

4:00

Ensign Certitude that is. Really?

4:02

Just Bomb or I under some

4:05

by Jason Clarke. Replace the attorney

4:07

opposite him. An End The Way

4:09

Keeper Racing Really? Precisely. Plays.

4:12

That breakdown or is is fascinating to

4:14

watch and totally different from, say, the

4:16

man who brought Jack Bauer to Less.

4:18

I think it's a really delicate balance

4:21

for it. You know, I think I

4:23

wanna like straight male actors. they they

4:25

can play military authority that that the

4:27

kind of that that's like. Okay, that's

4:29

a pretty stark character to do. but

4:31

the ads for of. Extra seasoning

4:34

of but that authority as a bit

4:36

pompous and may be misguided because they're

4:38

not actually that competent are there, they've

4:40

they've They say that and their ability

4:42

like it's It's a vulnerable character in

4:44

a strange way and I think to

4:46

kind of. Really? Thread that

4:49

needle of. Maybe once with

4:51

competent, but his sort of fallen

4:53

down or like or become too

4:55

reliant on discipline and not really

4:57

like sinking holistically about his work

4:59

on. Yeah it's it is

5:01

a certain role that in a way

5:04

might be assholes dairy because it

5:06

it shows a week this that I

5:08

think a lot of actors especially of

5:10

subtle incineration generations older than him.

5:12

We're not really trained to show very

5:15

often. And that's something we talked

5:17

a lot about in our interview as well. It's

5:19

he's been reflecting on. So let's get into the

5:21

interview with Kiefer Sutherland. We.

5:27

Have Kiefer Sutherland here today as starve

5:29

the Came Mutiny court martial. Hi keeper,

5:31

so are you. Are. i'm

5:33

well thank you so much for being here

5:36

ah i love this movie it took me

5:38

by surprise i think i thought before venice

5:40

last year so it's it's been a minute

5:42

i imagine it's been even longer for you

5:44

is that it has unfortunately i'm in so

5:46

many kind of events between cove it in

5:49

the right to strike the in the sack

5:51

strike and everything i just made kind of

5:53

the release of this film just fragmented is

5:55

the best way to say it's and so

5:57

i think now are slowly just trying to

6:00

some press because I think it's a really special piece

6:02

of work. I think William

6:04

Friedkin is not just one of the great American directors

6:06

of all time. He's one of the great film directors

6:09

of all time and I think

6:12

very few people can actually say that

6:14

they've changed two genres of Phil

6:18

in a span of three years. William

6:20

Friedkin directed the French Connection which absolutely

6:22

changed the genre of the thriller and

6:25

he was also then very quickly soon

6:27

after responsible for The Exorcist which absolutely

6:30

changed the genre of horror films as

6:33

we know it and so it

6:36

was such an honor to be able to work

6:38

with him and it was unfortunate that his last

6:40

film came out in

6:42

such a troubled time but

6:44

it was even obviously more sad that he passed

6:46

before it came out. So

6:49

yeah so I'm just I'm very excited for

6:51

people to see it because as

6:54

much as that I am in it and I am

6:56

proud of my performance and I'm proud of all of

6:58

the other actors. The story

7:00

behind the making of this movie

7:02

and the incredible talent that was

7:04

on display was

7:06

pretty extraordinary. We shot the

7:08

film in two weeks which

7:11

is unheard of for a feature length

7:13

film. Unbelievable. And the very

7:15

last sequence that I'm in I'm in two parts

7:17

of the movie and

7:19

they're split up by two different kinds of testimony

7:22

that I provide in the course of the film.

7:24

The second piece of testimony is somewhere

7:26

between 20 and 30 minutes long. That

7:29

was all done from entrance to exit

7:31

in one take and

7:35

it's not so much that we were capable of doing it

7:37

in one take that that's you know I mean you take

7:39

your time you learn it and you do your job. The

7:42

real extraordinary thing

7:45

is that he had seven cameras moving at

7:47

the same time in

7:49

a very small space which was that courtroom.

7:52

To have seven cameras working

7:55

like that in Congress with each other

7:58

Is one of the most kind of. Off

8:00

the. Chart. Games.

8:02

Of Tetris I've ever seen such an he

8:04

did it were the kind of skill of

8:07

it was just so matter of fact. We

8:10

didn't really even get for rehearsals because he

8:12

knew what he wanted the cameras to do

8:15

and and told each operator specifically what their

8:17

requirement was. It's ah and we shot at

8:19

and I've. Never. Felt kind

8:22

of a sense of synthesis on

8:24

a set like I did. That.

8:26

One when he was orchestrating what

8:28

ended up being oh Mister Twenty

8:30

Eight Minutes segment. Was

8:33

pretty extraordinary to watch any wrists.

8:35

It was his skill level like

8:37

that Dell allowed us to shoot

8:39

the film as well as we

8:41

did in my opinion. But

8:44

also as fast as we did. I

8:47

love everything you said and and particularly

8:49

the fact that this is a film

8:51

that is one scene and and that

8:53

requires a certain level of of finesse

8:56

to keep it moving, keep it interesting,

8:58

keep it's cinematic. but I think he

9:00

does so brilliantly. I'm just I'm

9:02

wondering how it how was presented to you or

9:04

me you know an update of the Key Mutiny

9:07

kind of iconic character William Friedkin. Like how did

9:09

it come to you? How did you wrap your

9:11

head around it is. In all fairness it came

9:13

in time of the most old school a traditional

9:15

ways and and by that I just mean like.

9:18

He wasn't going through in Asia. He called

9:20

me up. And then I. Got.

9:23

The voicemail which was you know

9:25

I was barely freak and ah

9:27

and I had met him before.

9:29

Answer is why Sherry Lansing. And.

9:32

So I immediately called him back and he

9:34

explained what he wanted to do and I

9:37

didn't interrupt him. But I mean. If

9:39

he was calling me to do a film, I was

9:41

gonna do it. So I mean if he said like

9:43

we were going to do this, we're going to do

9:45

the yellow pages but in two parts in your and

9:48

part eight am I was like okay cool. right?

9:50

I mean the up the fact that

9:52

it was an exotic film to me.

9:55

By. virtue of humphrey bogart and an iconic

9:57

plane acts on a books And

10:00

it represented so many

10:02

things that I was fascinated by. And

10:04

for my character specifically, two

10:07

things kind of collide together in the course

10:09

of this film. And it's a man being

10:11

confronted with who he is, not

10:14

who he wants to be. And

10:16

that's a terrible moment for anyone. And we all

10:18

have it at some point in our lives where

10:21

we realize at some point that we're

10:24

not going to be the

10:26

perfect ideal of who we wanted ourselves to

10:28

be. And then depending

10:31

on how kind of bad that

10:33

moment is, you know, we

10:35

have to reconcile with it. And obviously in the

10:37

case of this story, the man

10:39

that Kweig wanted to be and the man who

10:41

he honestly was, there was a

10:43

vast difference between the two. And

10:45

that I think is heartbreaking to kind of

10:48

come to the realization that you

10:51

missed your own mark. And

10:53

the other thing that I found so kind

10:56

of fascinating and that is

10:58

such a part of the book is this

11:00

notion of becoming irrelevant. That

11:03

the US Navy was willing to put up with

11:06

some of Commander Kweig's

11:08

misgivings because he was needed. He

11:11

was needed during the world war. He was needed

11:13

during this time. And

11:15

now he's no longer needed. And how do

11:17

we get rid of him with the least

11:19

fuss of all? And I think

11:21

that's another thing as you get older that

11:23

you kind of are confronted with that the

11:25

world's moving on. It's not going to wait

11:27

for you. And there is not going to

11:30

be not

11:32

even a day where the whole world

11:34

mourns, you know, your passing.

11:37

I think on some level, the only way we

11:40

survive as humans is believing that at least within

11:42

the context of our community that we're important. And

11:45

I think in this film, he's being shown

11:47

that he's not. And I think

11:49

those two things to collide at the same time

11:52

are really devastating for a person. And

11:54

so as much as I don't like

11:56

some of Commander Kweig's traits myself

11:59

as a person. I have great

12:01

empathy for what he's going through in

12:03

this film and in this

12:05

story. It's

12:07

also at a time in my life

12:10

where on some level I'm questioning, did

12:12

I become, how far off

12:14

am I from the mark of the man that I

12:16

wanted to be? And there's

12:19

certainly things I wish I had done better and

12:21

you certainly can't help as you

12:25

get older start to kind of realize that

12:27

there's a lot of other young people coming up and

12:29

they're doing great work and you are less relevant than

12:31

you might have been 10 or 15

12:34

years ago. So it's very interesting to

12:37

play a part about a series of

12:39

topics that you're actually dealing with as

12:41

your own person. I

12:43

try not to conflate the two but I would

12:47

be very hard pressed to say that they

12:49

didn't kind of cross paths in

12:51

the idea of that performance. I'm Chris Rousine.

12:54

I'm Richard Lawson. And I'm Hilary Buses.

12:56

We are from Bandy Fair's Still Watching Podcast.

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14:38

realize that some of those psychological disconnects

14:40

you were talking about in its physicality

14:43

in a way I found incredibly compelling.

14:46

Was your preparation unique for it,

14:49

the way you went into it,

14:51

seemingly from the inside out almost?

14:53

Very much so. The preparation was

14:55

just the volume of dialogue that

14:57

was going to have to be learned as a

14:59

play. Unlike a

15:01

play where you learn your dialogue and then

15:03

you go into rehearsals and then you rehearse

15:05

for six weeks and then you start performing

15:07

it, that wasn't going to be an

15:10

option here. I knew that I

15:13

had to work with someone to actually

15:16

put it on its feet, that I would have to

15:18

perform it so that by the time I went to

15:20

shoot with Mr. Freakin, I

15:24

had a real strong sense of what I was going to

15:26

do with it because as a

15:29

director, he's known for wanting the

15:31

first one or two takes

15:33

of a performance and for

15:35

very justified reasons. Certainly

15:38

in a courtroom drama, when

15:41

someone is testifying and that much is

15:43

at stake, they're inherently going to be

15:45

nervous and they're inherently

15:47

going to be scared. That's very

15:49

similar to an actor performing a

15:51

first take of anything. They're inherently

15:53

nervous and they're inherently scared. He

15:55

wanted that natural kinetic energy To

15:58

be going through you. For real

16:01

in the circumstances. Of

16:03

your performance. As the

16:05

principal. The principle of respect for

16:08

the command an app principal was dead when I

16:10

came aboard that ship and I brought to life

16:12

and I magda my breasts and I hollered and

16:14

by god I made a schedule. I was kept.

16:18

Him. As a matter of respects, I ask a

16:20

sailor cessna one a straight answer. Nobody's gonna

16:22

get away with his safety. Evasive off to

16:24

hold a court of inquiry for a week.

16:28

And. Are my ship. I wasn't going to let

16:30

them get away with it and I didn't buy

16:32

dogs. I never let anything like that happened on

16:34

that ship again. It's. So.

16:37

Had started like that and so. Does.

16:39

I worked with a woman a Bath

16:41

Helier. Is so

16:43

learned. Learned it top to bottom

16:46

like a play, ran a top

16:48

to bottom like a play and

16:50

the physicality started to find itself

16:52

in in in places where I

16:54

thought it was going amount of

16:56

the most earn the hands starting

16:59

to move long before he ever

17:01

gets to the the ball bearings.

17:03

the foot kind of wedding itself

17:05

in the kind of this uniquely

17:07

uncomfortable position. All

17:10

these little things kind of telling

17:12

you how torture this person is while

17:14

the rest of the facade kind of

17:16

looks very present symbol and cool and

17:19

calm. But that inside

17:21

between the hands in the seed, this

17:23

person's in real torture at this moment.

17:28

Is it something? Every actor was just at

17:30

the top of their game here. I'm not

17:32

sure if you gotta in a hangar and

17:34

said in the scenes you weren't in but

17:36

it was thrilling to just see this company

17:38

come together scene by scene by scene well

17:40

as it was in also you and you're

17:43

right Every person I there were a lot

17:45

of scenes and I wasn't privy to because

17:47

yeah I just wasn't there. But I'll give

17:49

you have a thing about Lance Reddick that

17:51

I just thought was so cool. it's in

17:53

our whole in that whole set Him ah

17:55

testimony of mine. I. Think he

17:58

has one line. And. As. Said

18:00

earlier the take was like twenty eight minutes

18:02

long or it or whatever it is in

18:04

the film is is however long it was

18:07

from kind of and and. And

18:09

there wasn't a single moment because I

18:12

had about five cameras directly in front

18:14

of me. And.

18:17

Last. Was just on my

18:19

right. Over that last

18:21

camera and then my far right.

18:24

And then to my sorrow lasts

18:26

and was jason. Everybody

18:28

else was kind of blocked by the cameras. I

18:31

couldn't see them. And

18:33

so I really had two points of

18:35

reference. And

18:37

of the combat of reference is always

18:39

going to be with Jason right? So

18:41

when I'm defending myself and I'm trying

18:43

to stake my claim, Is

18:46

always going to be to Jason. When

18:48

I'm trying to look out for some understanding

18:50

and some empathy from my Navy. It

18:53

was always Lance now.

18:56

I didn't expect him. To.

18:58

Do. And he did. But. I've

19:00

never seen anyone. Stay.

19:03

That laser focus for a twenty

19:05

minute take with one line. There

19:08

wasn't a single moment that I wouldn't kind of

19:10

look up. At. Him and

19:12

representing all the people behind that vests

19:15

that he other wasn't either locked eyes

19:17

with me. Were locked

19:19

eyes with Jason. For. Me

19:21

to react to that. He was absolutely

19:23

one hundred percent there. And.

19:25

For actors to be that generous?

19:28

When. They're off camera and they don't have

19:30

a lot of dialogue. Is is really you

19:33

know it's is really rare and I'd. I

19:36

respect Lance incredibly for what he

19:38

gave in the moments that he

19:40

was. For. Forming in that we

19:42

are working. Line by line with

19:45

each other. But I also really care to

19:47

respect the incredible gifts that he gave me

19:49

as and off camera actor which I

19:51

don't really know. Harrys every historically it's you

19:53

don't get that very often. That's.

19:56

lovely and it's it's interesting as i

19:58

revisited the film allen it just before

20:00

this and you feel that

20:03

there is this sense of loss to the

20:05

film with Friedkin and with Lance and there's

20:07

a poignancy to it as well though I

20:09

think. Well first yeah the poignancy is just

20:12

the fleeting nature of it right. I mean

20:15

you wouldn't find a better looking stronger

20:17

looking man than Lance you just won't

20:19

I mean and so that just doesn't

20:22

make sense and

20:24

that gets you into the whole

20:27

world of that was just not fair right

20:29

and my heart breaks for his wife or

20:31

his family and friends and

20:33

you just have to take solace and kind of what

20:36

an amazing man he was and how many great

20:38

things he did but that's

20:40

never going to be enough and certainly not for

20:42

the people that surrounded him

20:45

and then William

20:47

wow I think that's the first time I've

20:50

called him William. That

20:52

may be my fault. No no no because

20:54

I always called him Mr. Friedkin and I

20:57

started off with Sir and

20:59

then he finally he kept saying you

21:01

need to call me Billy and I said yeah I can't do

21:03

that and then it ended up

21:05

Mr. Friedkin and I said look you have to understand

21:07

I was a

21:09

theatre actor in Toronto Canada I was

21:12

15 years old and I went and saw the French Connection and

21:15

this is before VHS

21:17

this is before beta this is this is

21:19

a second third run of the

21:21

movie. No I've never

21:23

seen a trailer for it I just went to go see it because

21:25

I'd heard it was something to see

21:29

and after that that's

21:31

what I wanted to do I wanted to make I wanted

21:33

to tell stories like that and I wanted to tell them

21:35

like that and I wanted to

21:37

tell them that violently and I wanted to

21:40

tell them that impactfully and that current and

21:42

that dynamic and

21:44

so I said yeah there's no way I'm

21:46

calling you Billy you know I'm

21:48

gonna talk to you with a

21:51

level of respect that I think you deserve

21:53

so that actually yeah I think just kind

21:55

of thinking of him in memory made me

21:57

call him William. But

22:01

he had so much energy and so much spirit.

22:03

And, you know, look,

22:06

coming out of COVID, all this stuff, it's been

22:08

a tough time. And then it's been a tough

22:10

time on people that are older.

22:13

And he

22:15

was so vital when we were working that I

22:17

was really caught off guard when he passed. And

22:21

I think it's very sad because I think it

22:23

would have been really nice for him. I

22:26

think as tough as he sounds and

22:29

as tough as he is, I think

22:31

he would have been very appreciative

22:34

of the way people have

22:37

taken his last film. And

22:39

I would have liked him to have seen that. Yeah,

22:43

agreed. I'd

22:45

love to go back a bit to what you were

22:48

saying about how you connect to Kweig, mainly

22:51

because I've really been a fan of yours for a long

22:53

time. But

22:55

I've been really interested in some of the

22:57

work you've done for Screen more recently. I

23:01

guess the way to ask this is like, how are

23:03

you observing roles coming your way versus

23:06

what you're looking for? Because something like

23:08

they clone Tyrone is such a cool

23:10

change of pace for you or even

23:12

playing FDR. Well, I think

23:14

you really hit the nail

23:17

on the head. I mean, what comes your

23:19

way? So

23:21

much of it is that, right? Mr.

23:24

Freakin was a fan of 24 and

23:26

I had done a film with

23:29

his wife, Sherry Lansing at Paramount called Eye for an Eye,

23:31

which was a really hard film for me to make because

23:34

the character was so awful. But I really

23:36

appreciated the story. And

23:38

John Schlesinger was the director and I wanted to work

23:41

with the director. And I think

23:43

Mr. Freakin appreciated the fact that I was willing to

23:45

take a role that was going to risk my entire

23:47

career because I wanted to work with a director. So

23:51

yeah, I mean, the fact that I

23:53

got offered this opportunity is extraordinary.

23:56

And so so much of it is, I Think

23:59

the one benefit. Getting older is

24:01

that I think. Some.

24:03

Of the younger people that might be

24:05

hiring, you have no idea what you've

24:07

done set set, and images, so they're

24:09

willing to take a chance on you

24:11

doing something different because they you know

24:13

that's they either don't know any better

24:15

or they actually. Think. You can

24:18

do something difference because certainly when I

24:20

started when I take a look back

24:22

on on and I wish I'd been

24:25

a little smarter. But when I look

24:27

back on Standby Me Lost Boys. Flatline.

24:30

Or as. Young. As

24:32

one and two are a bit different because

24:35

I I wasn't the bad guy in those

24:37

movies. But then when you start singing of

24:39

a few Good Men a Time to Kill

24:41

and all of the films that followed. An

24:44

eye for an eye at sign of the height

24:46

of that. Those are all characters

24:49

that were just kind of nasty

24:51

and and and and not nice

24:53

at all. It's an Mri rationalization,

24:55

as an actor is. well, If

24:58

those characters aren't kind of awful,

25:00

than. The good part of

25:02

this story can be told so there's

25:04

a responsibility there. The thing I didn't

25:07

understand it's his team was that people

25:09

take their movies really seriously and they

25:11

take them really personal and I have

25:13

had occasion where. You

25:16

know someone would Not shake my hand

25:18

because. Of a that I

25:20

played and and. Well. I

25:22

mean, I personally don't understand. That's ah,

25:25

it's a movie. But. But.

25:27

But I've had to kind of accept it.

25:30

And high for and I was very are that

25:32

way. I mean I do remember I mean and

25:34

one of funnier note ah about a week after

25:37

that had come out. My. Daughter was

25:39

maybe eight years old and we went to

25:41

Chuck E Cheese and I would have a pizza

25:43

and by the timing us at a table or

25:45

the other mothers have grabbed their kids and.

25:48

Just. last stress and literally we were

25:50

the only be the last in

25:52

this restaurant this sounds like a

25:54

thousand people at my daughter's on

25:56

i'd rented the place out for

25:58

us And

26:02

that's of course not the truth. It

26:04

was just the character was just

26:07

unfortunately that. I

26:10

mean it was just a terrible, I mean and

26:12

as a father of a daughter, the worst father

26:14

of two daughters, the worst kind of character that

26:17

you would ever want your

26:19

daughter to come in contact with. So

26:22

it's been hard that in the earlier stages

26:24

of my career, but you're always just so

26:26

grateful to work. So

26:28

being given other opportunities like they

26:30

cloned Tyrone and the pandemic had

26:32

something to do with it. I

26:34

think less people were available. So

26:37

you take whatever opportunity you can, you do

26:40

the best you can with it and you're grateful to have

26:42

had it. So

26:44

yes, I'm embracing the idea

26:47

that with age comes opportunity

26:49

and nuanced change and we'll

26:53

see what happens. Yeah,

26:55

I wouldn't necessarily call them bigger

26:57

swings or anything, but when you're a leading

26:59

man as you've been in, for example, a

27:01

number of series, there's a certain, you know,

27:03

you're holding the center a little bit more

27:05

whereas in something like Kane

27:08

Mutiny, you come in and the

27:10

energy is electric. And

27:12

those other projects as well, it's more

27:15

unpredictable I guess is the way of putting it. Well,

27:18

and it's a fantastic opportunity because I mean

27:20

if you think of actors as, you know,

27:23

as a storyteller, actors are your weapons,

27:25

right? If there's

27:27

something that you can do that can be affected,

27:30

I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about any

27:32

actor. If there's, you know, when you

27:34

take a look at Anthony Hopkins in

27:36

Silence of the Lambs, I would

27:38

have to tell you he's barely in a

27:40

quarter of it. But the impact

27:43

he has is so great and the performance that

27:45

he gives is so profound that he's

27:47

with you through the whole film and

27:50

the whole storytelling process. And so

27:53

as an actor, you would relish those

27:55

kinds of opportunities to allow yourself kind

27:58

of the power of of telling

28:00

and being a part of the telling of

28:02

that story. Jack Nicholson and A Few

28:04

Good Men was a perfect example of that. I

28:08

would say he was in less than a quarter of that movie

28:11

and yet commanded so much attention. I

28:14

know you just worked with another master,

28:17

Mr. Clint Eastwood. Yes, yeah. Well, can

28:19

you tell me about that experience and

28:21

really doing films like this in succession

28:23

with these kinds of, I mean, these

28:25

pillars of filmmaking? Well, so this is

28:27

actually a really kind of a funny

28:30

story. So

28:32

I had such an amazing time

28:34

with Mr. Freak and then as

28:36

you're saying, these other opportunities were

28:38

presenting themselves. And then I had

28:40

read that Clint Eastwood was making his last film.

28:44

And I knew that it had been predominantly

28:48

cast. But

28:50

I wrote him a letter saying,

28:52

introducing myself, telling

28:55

him that one

28:57

of the great dreams of my life would

28:59

have been in a film that he

29:01

had made and

29:04

that there was no part that

29:06

would be too small if there's anything, if it was

29:08

a couple lines, if it's the

29:10

greatest extra part of all time, I'm in. I

29:13

would like to just be there and I would like to say I

29:15

was a part of it. And so the part that I ended up

29:18

getting was not a big part but it

29:20

was a really impactful part for me when

29:22

I read the script. And

29:25

I was just so excited to

29:27

do it. And there was

29:30

the first scene that I did was in a

29:33

house. And it's

29:35

hard to tell the story but I'm

29:37

introducing myself to another character and

29:39

we're kind of becoming neighbor friends. And

29:44

there was a tricky moment of

29:46

how to navigate the

29:48

last couple lines of the scene and then get

29:50

out of the house. And

29:53

as I was leaving, I

29:56

just kind of made enough room between myself,

29:58

camera and the door, which was

30:00

really narrow. And I only had

30:02

a few inches on each side. And

30:04

I used a line to bridge what looked like

30:06

kind of maybe an awkward way out. And

30:09

as I was starting to initiate that

30:11

move, the first AD went

30:13

to go say something. And I heard way

30:15

off in the background, Clemence would

30:18

said, no, don't, he knows what he's doing. And

30:22

I got out the door. I've

30:24

had a really incredibly fortunate career.

30:27

But that's a moment that I'll ask, it'll

30:30

last me forever, right? That for one brief

30:32

moment, Clemence would told his first AD of

30:34

25 years not to worry that I would

30:36

figure it out. And

30:39

he didn't fire me, so I figured I did. Next,

30:46

we're going to turn to our interview

30:48

with Ambit Kamad. Katie Rich

30:51

recorded this interview in early March before

30:53

leaving Little Gold Men. Richard

30:55

and I are both huge fans of the series

30:57

one day. I watched it

30:59

on Richard's recommendation. And

31:02

Ambit is an actress I was aware of

31:04

before the series, but I think in this

31:06

one, playing opposite Leo Woodall, we

31:08

see just how great she is. Yeah,

31:12

they're perfectly matched. I think he's got

31:14

the rich boy, sad eyed swagger going,

31:16

and she's got the from a lower

31:18

class, but like smarter than him and

31:20

more ambitious than him, but frustrated by

31:23

the limitations put on her by her

31:25

station or whatever, that they really balance

31:27

each other well. But the good thing

31:29

about one day is that like, they

31:31

get episodes where they're not interacting, so

31:33

they just get to show us what

31:35

they can do separate of each other.

31:38

And Amad is just like,

31:40

she's a frustrated post grad trying

31:42

to make a living in theater, which is something

31:44

I can, I don't know, maybe relate to. Oh

31:48

God, it's so nice to be out. It's

31:51

been so long. Not that long. Look

31:55

lovely. Oh, no I do. Good

31:57

shoes. Jackson, 12.99. One

32:01

day I'm going to give you a compliment and

32:03

you won't Immediately or five of the price has

32:05

never. And.

32:07

I just find that the way the her

32:09

character evolves from you know, seater artists to

32:12

writer too, well, frustrated writer to writer whose

32:14

actually may be making some traction by kind

32:16

of doubtful of that while also having romantic

32:18

misadventures like I just really feel like you

32:20

grow up with her over the course of

32:22

the show and that's the writing in the

32:24

direction sure, but it's really and a performance

32:26

as a quiet heartbreak the she weaves into

32:28

the whole piece as well. suskind or interview

32:30

with and make a mod. A.

32:38

Wanted to separate going back to kind of before

32:40

the show started from south I think he talked

32:42

about an earlier interviews and just basically had the

32:44

reaction to this is going to hurt was so

32:46

huge and made you kind of as anxious as

32:48

the word but really considering what you wanted to

32:50

do next and made you not want to take

32:53

this audition and the first place on t to

32:55

some. But what that feeling was like about that

32:57

show blowing up so big and how it affected

32:59

what you figured you wanted to do next is

33:01

your career. He. I see the reaction

33:03

to this have been hot blue. Lights that

33:05

stations that wusa like. It was

33:07

my size of breakout role and

33:09

gun. Their. Reaction assesses agonists

33:12

concerts in my. Time to

33:14

Story line. At. Massively

33:16

lie I think just the past every

33:18

us that his know how to decide

33:20

he for really sudden of the that

33:22

character only devastated by has to a

33:25

line and been. Declared as soon

33:27

as this is a junior doctor he. Is

33:29

services depression and then she and. That taking her

33:31

life which is actually a whiny hi.

33:33

Statistics a junior doctors in the Uk.

33:35

And then. It became

33:37

like i think. It's have

33:40

struck up this national conversation my found myself

33:42

of us very much in the middle of

33:44

this. He notes this name and on them

33:46

as. And actors of having

33:48

a far greater than others it's quite a

33:50

the lungs and. whole

33:53

thing about you know he said i didn't see much

33:55

attention to like three one go away please and not

33:57

for of what i saw when i you know what

33:59

you do for one day and I

34:02

was like no not doing that. Thank

34:04

you very much for you to offer

34:06

but goodbye. And

34:08

also because I was such a massive fan of the

34:10

book, like a massive fan of the book. I'd read

34:12

the book when it'd come out and I was like

34:14

13 or 14. So

34:17

it kind of just felt like this other

34:19

thing that would also carry huge

34:21

responsibility for different reasons

34:23

and I didn't think I was up

34:25

to the task. I

34:27

know you've known you wanted to be an actor

34:29

for a long time and you had done you

34:31

know press when going to the Edinburgh Fringe and

34:34

stuff like that but when you're in something like

34:36

this is going to hurt that's so topical and

34:38

everyone wants to talk to you about doctors and

34:40

mental health and all this stuff did the kind

34:42

of becoming a spokesperson surprise you? Did it feel

34:44

like you were all of a sudden didn't ask

34:46

to speak for things and you're like I'm an

34:48

actor like yeah I know the weirdest thing was

34:50

like the weirdest thing was like when people would

34:52

come up to me on the streets and doctors

34:55

it'd be primarily doctors who would approach me and

34:57

they'd come up to me they'd be like thank you so

35:00

much and I'd be like what

35:02

are you thanking me for I'm an actor you're

35:04

an actual doctor like this feels like the wrong

35:06

way around and that was really that I found

35:08

that very confusing and very wild because

35:11

I did so much I did so much research for

35:13

that job. There was about I

35:15

was cast I think a couple of months

35:17

before we actually started filming and I was

35:19

so terrified of the responsibility which seems to

35:21

be a recurring theme that like I just

35:24

dove straight into like research like I watched

35:26

every documentary I read every book I read

35:28

listen to every podcast I read off about

35:31

like people's experience at medical school I read

35:33

off about like PTSD that

35:35

Obs and Gany doctors have, depression,

35:37

suicide, I read about

35:40

like the junior doctor strikes that had

35:42

happened how did NHS differs from like

35:44

how it works now to how it

35:46

worked when the show was set in

35:49

2006 like everything and I

35:52

kind of felt like almost like fully in

35:54

this world even though I was not at all

35:56

involved in the world I felt like I knew so much about

35:58

it so I think when the show came out and

36:00

it got that reception. I felt

36:03

very proud and like

36:05

this the show had done its job, like the

36:07

show was so much bigger than all of us.

36:09

You know, the show was created

36:11

to represent these people who

36:14

are underpaid and underappreciated, dealing

36:16

with life and death every day in their

36:18

lines of work. And I

36:21

could help be a spokesperson about this in some way,

36:23

whether it's literally talking about in an interview or

36:25

just you know, via my performance, like it's

36:27

rare you get to do work that is not only

36:30

fun and like complex and meaty,

36:32

but like it's also really meaningful

36:35

and brings a lot of social awareness to

36:37

something that really deserves it. So it just

36:40

kind of felt like the perfect amalgamation

36:42

of everything. And I'm, you know, it's definitely set a

36:44

really high bar in terms of like that being my breakout

36:46

role. It's definitely set a really high bar for the things

36:48

I do after it. Well,

36:51

and then one day comes and you don't have

36:53

the pressure of representing something so broad, you know,

36:55

you're playing like a quote

36:57

unquote normal person kind of with regular

36:59

feelings, but a love story people put so

37:02

much into like people are invested in MNDex like

37:04

you were when you were 13. So I imagine

37:06

that comes with its own pressure too of being

37:08

true to the story that you love and also

37:10

just like having an audience who you know is

37:13

going to care really deeply about this. Did that

37:15

pressure feel palpable to you when you started? 100%.

37:17

Again, I think it's part

37:19

of the reason I turned the audition down and then it was only

37:21

when I sort of a month

37:24

or so later revisited the first

37:26

script that they'd sent and realized

37:28

and remembered how much I loved

37:30

these characters and the story and how much

37:32

it meant to be growing up that I changed

37:35

my mind and sent off

37:37

a tape in two days like at the 11th hour. I think

37:40

for Emma especially I felt that

37:42

responsibility because for anyone who knows the

37:44

book, like everyone who knows the book knows that

37:47

one day is Emma's book. She is

37:49

the grounding force of that novel. She is

37:51

the one that people relate to and identify

37:53

with. David Nichols said it himself

37:55

that when he wrote the book and it came out

37:57

and it was such a success that he had done

37:59

it. people coming up to him all the time telling him, I

38:02

am Emma. I like see myself in Emma. Like no

38:04

one ever said that about Dexter, you know, she is

38:06

a person whose eyes we see the

38:10

story and we feel like we grow up with her in a way.

38:12

And I think there's so

38:14

much about her story that's so universal. And

38:16

she's so loved by so many different people

38:18

for so many different reasons. And

38:20

I was also very aware that I could just

38:22

bring about one version of her. Like I'm not gonna

38:25

be able to satisfy

38:27

everyone's interpretations of

38:29

her. And I think,

38:32

you know, after that initial pressure

38:34

and initial responsibility kind

38:36

of washed over me, I was then left with a task

38:38

of just actually, you know, the best thing I can do

38:40

now is find my own truthful

38:42

version of Emma. And

38:46

I think, you know, nothing to mention the fact that

38:48

you know, Emma's written as white, she's been played by

38:50

white actress in the past. Like there

38:52

was obviously like, it felt there

38:54

almost felt like this need for me to be able

38:56

to justify why I was there playing the role. But

38:59

the creative team, the writers, the execs, they

39:02

never asked that of me. And what

39:04

we did instead was just like going into

39:06

creating this really complex, detailed backstory

39:08

for her, so that she felt as

39:10

real to us as possible. And we then

39:12

when you know, we then started creating

39:15

the show. And I, you know,

39:17

did as much research as I could into like what it might have

39:20

been growing up in Yorkshire in the 60s

39:22

and the 70s. And, you know, what her

39:24

family might have looked like, what her schooling

39:26

might have looked like. And so,

39:28

yeah, I think the

39:31

responsibility and the pressure is something that came over me

39:33

in sort of waves at different times. But

39:36

all I could do was tap into the

39:38

reasons that I identified with Emma, and the

39:40

reasons why she felt so real and so

39:42

truthful to me as a person. And

39:46

yeah, hopefully that comes across. I

39:49

think it's really easy to imagine even when you're

39:51

13, and you haven't had these life experiences, why

39:53

you'd identify with Emma, you know, at that

39:55

age when you're, you feel like you're smarter than everybody, and maybe you

39:57

feel like you say the wrong thing all the time. There's a lot.

40:00

there. Revisiting her and the

40:02

story in general at, you know, roughly

40:04

halfway through the story in terms of the age you

40:06

are now, did you get something different out of it?

40:08

Did you kind of look back at your 13 year

40:10

old self and say, oh wow, we get the story

40:13

feels so different? Because I felt that way having read

40:15

the book 12 years ago and

40:17

I'm reading it again, it felt so different to me

40:19

and I'm betting it was the same for you. Absolutely.

40:21

I mean I think when

40:24

you're 13 you read a story like that. There's

40:27

like this notion of like, I'm going to find

40:29

my one true love and everything's going to be

40:31

fine. And like when I read

40:34

the book when I was auditioning and then I reread

40:36

it again when I got the part, it

40:38

meant something completely different to me. And now

40:40

I don't even look at it as a love story anymore. And

40:42

I'm really hesitant to call it that. And in every press

40:44

interview I've done, I've been really hesitant to call it that

40:47

because yes, it's just one part of

40:49

the narrative and Emma and

40:51

Dexter are just one part of each other's

40:53

lives. But like actually, this book is

40:55

about so much more than that. It's about growing

40:58

up and how brutal and disappointing

41:00

that can be. I think it's

41:02

about fate. And I think

41:04

that is actually a much, much more profound way

41:06

to look at the story. And that's my

41:08

now my relationship with it.

41:11

I having reread the book so many

41:13

times now and having made the show, I

41:15

think I'm much more reflective about life. Maybe

41:17

that's just a quality that comes as you

41:19

get older where I look back on my

41:21

life and it's the small encounters and the

41:24

seemingly small accidents that

41:27

have made a massive impact

41:29

on my life and where I am today and the

41:31

relationships that I have. And I think

41:33

that's definitely true of Emma and Dexter when they first meet,

41:35

it's not this cosmic union. A bit

41:37

stilted is a bit awkward, like they're clearly sort

41:40

of two very different people from two

41:42

very different worlds. But the

41:44

impact they have on each other and each other's

41:46

lives is hugely profound. I think, you know, with

41:49

a lot of our relationships, we look back and

41:51

might not have predicted the ways in which different

41:53

people might have stuck around

41:55

in our life and the impact that they might

41:57

have had. So I think it's

41:59

you know, much bigger than just a love

42:02

story. I think it's about how actually

42:04

life unfolds in the most unexpected

42:07

ways for good and

42:09

for bad. Yeah, I

42:11

think the part that felt maybe the most poignant for

42:13

me different now is kind of Emma's early years trying

42:15

to figure out what she wants to do with herself

42:18

and that sense of like, I'm struggling, I have this

42:20

terrible job, I'm never going to get out of this

42:22

terrible job. And I think you had a pretty similar

42:24

post college thing of trying to make it as an

42:26

artist, having a lot of artist friends and just hitting

42:29

roadblock after roadblock. So having the perspective

42:31

now where you've kind of gotten out

42:33

of that, did those sequences hit differently

42:35

for you? Definitely. I came

42:39

out of uni pursuing

42:41

comedy because I'm a comedian originally and I

42:43

was working full time jobs and getting in

42:45

the evenings and writing on the weekends and

42:48

feeling really just like beaten down by the whole

42:50

rigmarole of it. Every time you think you get

42:52

close to something, it goes away. And also

42:55

like Emma, when you feel like such an outsider to

42:57

the industry, I

42:59

didn't have any connections, trying to get

43:01

your foot in the door, creating your

43:04

own work. It's exhausting, it's really

43:06

exhausting, it's really vulnerable. The rejection

43:08

in comedy is

43:10

brutal. And I

43:12

think when I reread that, because I

43:15

was 26 when I got the part,

43:18

so I hadn't lived much of Emma's

43:20

life, but especially in those early years,

43:22

she has something to say. And she

43:24

has this currency

43:27

of her wit and her intelligence. And

43:29

she's very moralistic and she wants to

43:32

change the world, but she

43:35

is just not the kind of person who gets...

43:37

She feels like an underdog. She feels

43:39

very separate and very outside

43:42

of the rooms where she can make

43:44

those changes or pursue

43:46

her dreams, like follow her

43:48

ambitions. And I

43:51

think that's definitely a part of

43:53

her story that I really, really,

43:55

really related to, especially when you contrast

43:57

her with someone like Dexter. who

44:00

just has all the privilege in the world and

44:02

gets everything handed to him on a silver platter,

44:04

that can make it feel even more frustrating. Having

44:09

worked ten times harder to get half

44:11

as far. Yeah, that's definitely

44:13

something. Did you know people like that too? Did you

44:15

have Daxters in your own life who you just watched

44:18

going upward while you tried to get your foot

44:20

in the door? Not

44:24

like close to me, but

44:26

privilege definitely helps in this

44:28

industry. Not

44:30

to sugarcoat it. It can feel like

44:33

I am just not the kind of thing that

44:35

people want. It's

44:39

raised to feel like I'm not the kind of person that people

44:41

want to see on screen. I'm not the kind of person that

44:43

people want playing this character. I'm not the kind of

44:46

person that people will look up to

44:48

and empathise with or fall in love

44:50

with. It's overcoming all those

44:52

barriers. And that is, I think, a story

44:54

that a lot of young women can

44:56

relate to because they get told time

44:59

and time again that we're not enough

45:01

or that we're too much of something. So I think that's why so

45:03

many people,

45:06

like I said earlier, identify with

45:09

Emma and especially her feelings in

45:11

her early 20s. So

45:15

yeah, that definitely rang true for

45:17

me and it was helpful to get into

45:19

her, into the character in that way. I'm

45:24

Alex Schwartz. I'm Nomi Fry. I'm

45:26

Vincent Cunningham and this is Critics at

45:29

Large, a New Yorker podcast for the

45:31

culturally curious. Each week we're

45:33

going to talk about a big idea that's

45:35

showing up across the cultural landscape and we'll

45:37

trace it through all the mediums we love.

45:39

Books, movies, television, music, art. And I always

45:41

want to talk about celebrity gossip too. Of

45:43

course. What are

45:45

you guys excited to cover in the next few months?

45:47

There's a new translation of the Iliad that's

45:49

coming up Emily Wilson. Really excited to see

45:52

whether I can read the Iliad again, whether I'm

45:54

that literate. I mean, the gurry of act.

45:57

I can't wait to hear Adam Driver go again in

45:59

a town. and Michael Mann's Ferrari.

46:01

He can't stop, I mean, and

46:04

bless him. I can't wait. Molto

46:06

bene. Molto bene. We

46:10

hope you'll join us for new episodes

46:12

each Thursday. Follow Critics at Large today

46:14

wherever you get podcasts. You

46:16

really don't want to miss this. Don't. Don't

46:18

miss this. Don't miss it. See you soon. I

46:25

love what you've said about what the very visible

46:27

rejection you got like on stage performing comedy where

46:29

sometimes you just bomb and the room is silent

46:32

and you have to power through that and what

46:34

you've learned from that. And I wondered like what

46:36

is it does kind of does it build confidence?

46:38

Does it kind of teach you to hone your

46:40

skills? What do you now feel like you really

46:42

got from just falling flat on your face in

46:45

front of a crowd once in a while? Everything,

46:47

honestly, honestly, every comedy gave me everything. I think

46:50

more than anything gave me my voice. I think

46:53

I've, you know, really learned

46:55

who I am. I think as an

46:57

actor like that is such, you know, as much as

46:59

you want to play different parts and lead yourself in

47:01

different stories, like, as an actor, you really

47:03

need to know who you are because at the end of the day,

47:06

it's like the choices you make and

47:08

the things that you stand up for. And that's what I

47:10

really learned in comedy. Also just like

47:12

the difference in rejection of dying on

47:15

stage as you say, versus sending

47:17

a tape off and never hearing back.

47:19

Like that is just like worlds apart.

47:21

So I started acting and

47:23

auditioning. I was like, oh, this isn't so

47:25

bad. I can just I can just be

47:28

rejected in the privacy of my own home.

47:30

It's fine. There's like a group of 50

47:33

people staring at me, hating me, wondering

47:36

why this little brown girl is ruining their, like

47:38

wasting their evening. So

47:40

it's like, it's a very, it's

47:42

a very, very different process. And I think

47:46

similarly to Emma, like, I think I

47:48

went into audition rooms as an actor,

47:50

my comedy training was

47:53

my currency. And it's always

47:55

what I brought to every scene, what every

47:57

role is finding that levity. But I

47:59

think humans we do lean into that

48:01

much more than perhaps

48:03

we see on TV and

48:06

film. So that was always my instinct.

48:11

Is there something from making one day where you get

48:13

an episode or a scene or anything where you felt

48:15

your comedy training come in the most? There's a lot

48:17

of drama in the show obviously but there's a ton

48:19

of comedy to it and I wonder if any of

48:21

it rang more of a bell with your previous

48:23

experience. I

48:27

think what comedy taught me

48:29

and what I tried to bring to

48:32

more dramatic moments is that like left

48:35

is more. I

48:38

can't remember who said it. I think it might

48:40

have been like George Clooney like an actor inside

48:42

the actor's studio when he

48:45

said something about like actors always try to cry,

48:47

people don't want to cry in real life. And

48:49

something about that always stuck with me that

48:51

like I'm always looking

48:54

for the most

48:56

interesting choice or the most interesting

48:59

take on a scene or in a moment or in

49:01

a line read. And I think that's something that's something

49:04

that definitely comes from my like improv

49:06

training is that in this

49:08

world no matter how mad it is you could be

49:11

in a restaurant eating fish out of hats. That

49:14

world is like grounded to those people

49:17

in it and like what is the

49:19

most interesting choice that you can make

49:21

that feels real but that will push

49:23

the scene along. And I think

49:25

for me acting wise like it's

49:28

always about like just making those

49:30

interesting choices and

49:34

but also like trying to do as little

49:37

as possible. And I think that that's what

49:39

comedy really taught me like you know obviously

49:41

a joke lands because it's unexpected and I

49:43

think I have a similar outlook

49:47

to acting is like I think the best performances

49:49

always shock you even if they're the most dramatic

49:51

performances that you've ever seen. I

49:54

was thinking about in the Paris episode where you meet

49:57

Emma and she's grown up and she's come into herself

49:59

but it's small. like she's aged a little bit but

50:01

is a different person but it's not really a different

50:03

person and that made me think of what you said

50:05

about the small choice being the right choice sometimes.

50:08

So I wonder if that one felt right

50:10

for you. Absolutely.

50:13

I almost think like the most confident people,

50:15

the people who know themselves the best, have

50:18

the least to prove. And there's

50:20

something so quietly confident about Emma when we

50:22

meet her in Paris. You know,

50:24

she's working on her second book. She's in this beautiful

50:27

city. She's

50:30

met this guy she's

50:32

seeing and there's something so

50:34

quietly confident and

50:36

quietly assured about just her

50:39

whole, I think, demeanor. And

50:42

that was I think definitely something I tried

50:44

to carry in that episode. Because

50:47

I also think that's just how growing up

50:49

kind of works. I think, you know, as we

50:51

get older we want more

50:53

peaceful quieter lives. You

50:56

know, in your 20s there's so much

50:58

room for drama and emotion

51:00

and those high peaks and

51:02

troughs. And I think as you get older you

51:05

want the stability of that calm flat line. Do you

51:08

know what I mean? You want

51:10

people you can trust and people who are

51:12

reliable and people you love and you know,

51:15

work that you love and is secure.

51:17

So it's something about, I think there's

51:19

something about that that like sits very

51:22

well with Emma when we meet her

51:25

in Paris. And especially when we

51:27

then see her and Dexter's life together, like

51:29

it's a very ordinary life. And

51:33

I think that's what I think the

51:35

writing and has done so beautifully.

51:37

I mean, across the whole series, but especially when

51:39

Emma and Dexter get together is it's a

51:42

small moment. Like life lives in

51:44

the small moments when I think you're younger,

51:46

as I was saying earlier, you think it's about

51:48

the big moments, falling, finding the love of your

51:50

life, finding your dream job. And with Emma

51:53

and Dexter it's about the small

51:55

joys within the days that we see them together.

51:58

And again, I think the beauty of that. to

52:00

fill a sated again, just always picking the

52:03

most interesting but smallest choice.

52:07

Yeah. I read

52:09

in another interview, you said that now that

52:11

you've had these two big acting roles that you'd like to

52:13

do some more writing of your own or kind of build

52:15

your own projects. Is there anything specific you have in mind

52:18

of what you'd want to write or what you'd want to

52:20

focus on that that would be entirely yours? I

52:22

have a couple of ideas. I would

52:25

love to go back to my comedy roots. I think a lot

52:27

of people who see me on TV might not know that that's

52:29

my background and that's where I come from.

52:31

I would love to do something like really

52:34

off the wall and a bit weird. That's

52:36

like very character driven. It's

52:38

always been my dream to write a

52:40

really good like ensemble comedy. And

52:44

I'm talking like bottle

52:46

episode-esque, five people

52:48

in a room, just really five clear

52:50

cut characters performed by really amazing, immediately

52:53

skilled actors. And then putting them

52:55

in a situation where like there's nowhere for the writing to

52:57

hide, like the writing has to be as strong. That's

53:00

kind of a dream of

53:02

mine and I think

53:04

finding the right setting for that. But I

53:07

have a lot of things that

53:09

I would like to do and a lot of people I'd love to work with.

53:12

So I think you know being able to, you kind of have

53:15

to relinquish control a lot of the time. I

53:17

would love to have a bit more you know control over

53:19

a project and be

53:22

there from the very beginning to the very end rather than

53:24

just coming and doing my bit and then going.

53:26

I'm happy for that to come

53:28

to me in whichever way that does and

53:31

I'm in no rush. That

53:35

does it for this week's interview episode. We will

53:37

be back on Thursday to discuss the Cannes lineup

53:39

which Richard and I are very excited about. In

53:41

the meantime you can find me on the internet

53:43

at DavidCanfield97 and Richard Marila.

53:45

Our editor and producer as always is

53:48

Brett Fuchs. The

53:55

Run for Revoke is where you'll meet all the

53:58

most exciting people in fashion and culture. I

54:00

am friendly, but um you

54:03

should be the mayor of New York. We all support

54:05

that. Yeah, we support that. Alright.

54:10

Nikki. Yes. I'm really

54:12

question you in this beautiful pink room.

54:15

Alright, Ashley, can you hear us? I

54:17

can hear you. Alright. Can you hear

54:19

me? We can. Alright,

54:22

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