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Little Gold Men sponsors include

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the Apple original film, Killers

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of the Flower Moon, an

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enthralling epic from legendary director,

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Martin Scorsese, starring Leonardo DiCaprio,

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Fair. Hello

0:33

and welcome to Little Gold Men, the awards

0:35

season podcast from Vanity Fair, and welcome to

0:37

Noyahouse in Hollywood, where we are hosting our

0:39

first ever live episode. This

0:42

is very exciting. And

0:48

the Oscar goes to... And

0:50

the Oscar goes to... The

0:52

winner...it's a tie. And

0:56

any little girl who's practicing

0:58

their speech on the telly, you never know. Mom,

1:03

I just want an Oscar. I

1:13

am Katie Rich. I'm here with Richard Lawson. Hello. And

1:16

with David Canfield. Hi, Katie. How are

1:18

we doing, you guys? Well, this is how we record every week. It is, indeed. I

1:21

think the thing that people need to know... I know. ...is

1:23

that we're always in Los Angeles, where we all live.

1:26

In this hotel, actually. Yeah, I

1:28

live in... This is not a hotel. This

1:30

is a... It's a cultural center. It's a cultural center, yeah. Oh,

1:32

excuse me. See, this is where you don't know I live. But

1:34

it's a cultural center where I live, and

1:36

you guys every week come, and we record together.

1:39

It's great. We're really excited to be here. As

1:41

we mentioned, we're going to be joined later

1:43

with Lily Gladstone, the star of Killers of

1:45

the Flower Moon, as well as Jacqueline West,

1:47

the costume designer, and Julie O'Keefe, the consultant.

1:51

But first, we have an award season that's going on. You guys

1:53

might have heard about it. If you're

1:55

here in this room, you probably know that as

1:57

we're talking on Tuesday, Oscar voting ends. Our

2:00

So if you have a ballot in your

2:02

Oscar voters get it's emitted. It's probably not.

2:04

Here's the haven't put it in yes, I'm

2:06

certificate, awards season and what's been going on

2:08

and the awards shows that we've been kind

2:10

of inundated with over the past week or

2:12

so. I have never seen so many televise.

2:14

Awards shows and such a short period. It's funny

2:16

to to have the Emmys kind of dive bomb

2:19

in spite of the that we're talking about movies

2:21

right now amulet and they're like no no we

2:23

are hit will give us Monday please. Yeah, Exactly

2:25

they had Monday and so we're going to

2:28

start with the Critics' Choice Awards was for

2:30

on Sunday. David you and I were there

2:32

together in person at the Made A Summer

2:34

Table which was a delight and I mean

2:36

David you been at all of these events

2:38

kind of non a your wardrobe budget assist

2:41

ballooning I'm but what's the that he let

2:43

being at that event specifically what kind of

2:45

made that distinctive. Well. I got

2:47

to sit at a table with Julian More

2:49

and Charles Nelson for them out a little

2:51

bit. Synapse: Who hideous people? Yes, it's I've

2:53

been and arable time together I kindly like

2:55

oh my god and we don't. Know.

2:58

It's yes, I did take Monday off as

3:00

well. For the I mixed it's been a

3:03

lot. I think the main thing that stood

3:05

out in terms of the show was the

3:07

fact that the attendance was so strong and

3:09

mean normally the critics' choice awards or little

3:12

bit. Less. Fully attend as

3:14

among Oscar nominees, especially when it's such

3:16

a star year. But the fact is

3:18

that because of the way the calendar

3:20

shutout especially with the Sag Strike, you

3:23

had all these shows occurring during voting

3:25

or just before voting which means maxim

3:27

time for visibility. so you would see

3:29

Dicaprio, Bradley Cooper every name Ryan Gosling

3:31

a very famous Ryan Gosling reaction shot

3:34

already said they were all there in

3:36

the room and so that meant when

3:38

people one you had a lot of.

3:41

Big. Names watching them when ship which

3:43

of course only adds to the residence

3:45

in a few tight races especially. Yeah,

3:47

and you had been at the. Governor The Academy Governors words

3:50

a few days before and in your report and I'm

3:52

talking about like all of these luminaries in the room

3:54

supporting each other and I was kind of watching it

3:56

happen in real. Time with someone goes up and you see

3:58

Bradley Cooper immediately stand up for us and. innovation and

4:00

Emma Stone right there. The support

4:02

felt so visible, which is something I don't think I would have

4:04

known had I not seen it in person. Katie doesn't

4:06

get to go to these things as often, so

4:09

I enjoyed watching her sort of observe the

4:11

way the gravity of a room shifts when a

4:13

Bradley Cooper gets up. And everyone

4:15

sort of slowly drifts toward them. Yeah,

4:18

that's where word season happens. That's where you really

4:20

notice who is kind of owning the narrative of

4:22

the year and whether or not Bradley Cooper ends

4:24

up winning, it doesn't seem to be going in

4:26

that direction. He's been a major story of the

4:29

season and that's where you see something like that.

4:31

Yeah, I mean, Richard, you watched it not live

4:33

in the room. No, but you watch it at

4:35

the CW every Sunday night. Well,

4:38

I'm a stakeholder in the CW again, so

4:41

I ran all the DC shows. I was the flash and

4:44

all that. Yeah, you're very, very wealthy as a result. But

4:46

what did you notice? I don't know why I'm here. I'm

4:48

so rich, I don't know why I'm here. What

4:51

did you notice from what you saw from the Critter

4:53

Choice Awards? Well, I mean, not to

4:55

turn to the negative, but the Golden

4:57

Globes were such a catastrophe. We're going to get there,

4:59

don't worry, we're getting there. Where

5:02

I was watching, it was the first award show in,

5:05

I've been at Vanity Fair 10 years and

5:07

every year since then I've been

5:09

like, no, I have to cover these awards. I

5:11

cannot watch with other people. I have to be

5:14

alone at home, hermetic. And for

5:16

whatever reason, the Golden Globes this year was the first time I

5:18

like accepted an invite to go to a watch party and I

5:20

brought my laptop so I was like, so I could write. And

5:23

then it was like that, it was like Jo Koy and

5:25

I was like, this is like the crazy, I need to

5:27

like leave immediately and just like write about the... Report to

5:30

the War Room with emergency. So that

5:32

was a bad precedent setting for the January award

5:34

show. And then like I thought the Critter Choice,

5:36

like Chelsea Handler, who used to date Jo

5:38

Koy, and made a joke sort of about

5:41

him, I thought she did a

5:43

good, solid, competent job and, you

5:46

know, made fun of the movies, but also

5:48

celebrated the movies. And then the winners were

5:50

kind of actually in line with, I think,

5:52

where we're sort of thinking that the Oscars

5:54

could go. So it felt

5:57

like a very sort of solid Lily

5:59

Pad that... The campaign could likely buffer

6:01

for the golden gloves felt a little more

6:03

chaotic gotten the winners via, but the hosting

6:05

kind of made that night weird. Yeah

6:08

it did feel comfortable in away and even when there are

6:10

like winners you know I think we can talk about the

6:12

most actor race and how I mean think they've never seen

6:14

or been like i don't know who's gonna win this and

6:16

Julianne Moore had her predictions which. We don't have to

6:18

share, but the fact that Oppresses is not

6:21

the right, right? Julianne Moore has voted a

6:23

straight Super Mario Brothers. She

6:26

was devastating Attack black the I would make sure

6:28

those it's it's all. My idea unfortunately. Unbelievable.

6:30

Very comfortable because it's you know, even when

6:32

there's little bit of a surprise I ever.

6:35

Obviously everyone's really deserving. Obviously everyone's getting their

6:37

standing ovations. It was it is elected the

6:39

car. Was back on the track in some ways. I

6:42

think so and I think the speeches were

6:44

good and yams we had this interesting early

6:46

part of the season were like i'm in

6:48

a Partisan or from for the Circle and

6:51

we gave Charles Mountain the supporting actor word

6:53

and and he won elsewhere for that and

6:55

then like. But. The

6:57

thinking was always like sure, that's lovely

6:59

but like Robert Engine Resort of lying

7:01

in wait backstage satellite a specific take

7:04

this and then that's what's been happening.

7:06

Yeah, his speeches been good and you

7:08

know. Any you know it's going at it as a thing as and

7:10

you get someone who's like that big of a movie. Sorry kind of know

7:12

what you're getting and for. Whereas if I joined, Read off

7:14

has been giving this endless be to some expected

7:16

be like. She comes very prepared, she's kind of

7:18

introducing herself to people and I Felix is introducing

7:20

yourself as a consummate professional which is exactly what's

7:22

yours. is working really well I think I. Was

7:25

at Yale as a case you know says

7:27

he loves wrong about Yale. We're talking about

7:29

these people of our that's what the America

7:31

Frisbees actually because she didn't win a competitive

7:33

a war, but she got the honorary word.

7:35

And I think it was about halfway through her

7:37

speech I was like oh voting is still happening

7:39

see as in the mix. For supporting actress but

7:41

it's like it's a competitive rate that me it

7:43

it would win over so well in that room

7:45

like she did wonderfully. You. could also

7:47

do worse than have margot robbie who is

7:49

the story of this film year and a

7:51

lot of ways ounce introduce her with the

7:53

idea of and i think that allowed everybody

7:55

to really set up stream their seed know

7:58

this was a moment's She

8:00

knocked that speech out of the park, even

8:02

the little technical glitches that happened with the

8:04

teleprompter, which there were a few

8:06

of those throughout the night. It is the CW, so

8:08

what can we expect, really? That'll

8:11

be my last winner. How dare you. Charles Milton will not be

8:13

happy with me. So

8:15

in that sense, that

8:17

race is so kind of slippery right now. You

8:21

have a lot of different possibilities

8:23

because you have people like Padellepy Cruz,

8:25

who got a SAG nomination for Ferrari.

8:27

You have a couple people on this

8:30

BAFTA long list who may be nominated

8:32

later this week, and that

8:34

has a lot of overlap with the Academy. So

8:36

America's Fair hasn't shown up at a ton of

8:38

places, but she's a big face

8:41

of a big contender. And she gives a

8:43

speech like that, where everyone in

8:45

that room, a lot of Academy members, I'm not

8:47

saying the show was that widely watched, but even

8:49

just the industry buzz, I think was really strong

8:51

around it. Yeah, I think it was. And it

8:53

reminds people that she had a really big moment

8:56

in that movie, a moment that

8:58

has carried through, and that could take

9:00

her a long way. Yeah, and

9:02

she has this monologue that I

9:04

guess you could look at as sort of defining one

9:07

ethos of the film. And like Be

9:09

It Just Straight, all those years ago, won

9:11

an Oscar for one monologue. There

9:14

is precedent for it in

9:16

a way that I think that the Academy voters

9:18

have a little bit extra time than all these

9:20

other awards bodies did, who did not give her

9:22

America for Hour nominations. But I don't know, I

9:24

just think that with that sort of special moment

9:26

that happened, and they're still in voting. Yep,

9:29

a few more hours left. Yeah, a few more hours

9:31

left. I don't know, I think that,

9:34

I guess that would be a really litmus test of like, how

9:37

much the Academy loves Barbie, and I think they probably are

9:39

gonna like it a lot. Yeah, and well

9:41

that's the question. I feel like we've talked about this

9:43

another week, like we've been fearing Barbie Snobbery among the

9:45

Academy. And I think what was telling it, the Critic

9:47

Choice Awards, it's not just Barbie, had

9:49

that moment, it had another, it went for Best Comedy,

9:51

but it wasn't on the air, because they do that,

9:54

they give out awards during commercial breaks, which is strange. They

9:56

Went too fast, so they needed to fill the time.

9:58

And So Chelsea Handler. Made a wonderful

10:01

bit out of needing to give Ah Barbie

10:03

it's moments which and a gave away it

10:05

wasn't winning Best picture which I had thought

10:07

a sunni that you think she knew the

10:10

results in it wasn't and when that well

10:12

I'm sure we've we only critical votes on

10:14

it says I'm certainly Hillary's the only critics'

10:16

choice inferred subsidies You know that. He

10:20

reads all the envelopes right before I

10:22

know I also defense attorney or. So

10:26

I think that see had an understanding probably

10:29

through production of where the night was going

10:31

said also by that point Oppenheimer sort of

10:33

started to take all the technical or to

10:35

this as it is done. Yeah I'm so

10:38

now I'm in in but I don't know

10:40

you were going where you going to the.

10:42

I was just me thinking about the presence of Barbie and

10:44

how the Chelsea Handler really went out of her way to

10:46

make it even more visible than already was. But like, you

10:49

know what? I understand one. Which obviously warmed

10:51

my heart. Us migrated meme Ryan

10:53

Gosling ranting that. I was in the

10:55

bathroom when I knew about entire thing You're. Always in

10:57

the bathroom was a minister. has plenty of. The

10:59

Earth was his who was in the bathroom when a

11:01

Golden Globe. Christine lot easier for

11:04

pillow ninety. My Mac other a

11:06

favour and I want other physicists.

11:08

But know it was. I get objects. Really good night for Oppenheimer and

11:10

winning all those. Words That wins this picture. Christopher. Nolan

11:12

thought integrate he was the original. Burn on the

11:15

Cw. Actually, that is following in Cook for

11:17

proper said for the right right I Christopher

11:19

Nolan directed all the of those. The Gossip

11:21

Girl is supposed to be original, not mad

11:23

at the no no A result. But

11:25

he did make it feel it was. The sons are

11:28

very visible but Chilean Murphy did when the Sector which

11:30

is yet another twist in a race of them kind

11:32

of obsessed with how tight it feels and our friend

11:34

Paul Giamatti looked like my in a now he knows

11:37

this moment. He gave the best speech of the

11:39

my using south the I do and I think that

11:41

tom it made a very clear to me that. this

11:43

is his character actor whose so beloved in

11:46

this industry that as he could win their

11:48

over bigger movies i think with that group

11:50

even a maestro like it's bradley cooper i

11:52

feel like sag as a place where he

11:55

is really going to pull it out i

11:57

mean that's his that's his crowd as his

11:59

crew And then you figure

12:01

if Killian Murphy wins BAFTA, which I think is

12:03

still very likely You have a really really exciting

12:06

two horse race for best actor

12:08

kind of in the same way that we did last year with

12:10

Brendan Fraser and Austin Butler and I

12:13

don't I don't really who do you guys think is gonna pull it out right now?

12:15

Didn't we do this last week? I made everyone say

12:17

and then something changed. Are you are

12:19

you comparing Austin Butler apology money? They

12:23

had the same career, but you know Austin actually turned

12:26

down the holdovers and I'm not talking about the dominant

12:28

apology We're gonna be out working at the oven You

12:32

think that Paul's you you know, we talk

12:34

on this podcast a lot about the sort

12:36

of like Does a

12:38

speech tour win you an award?

12:40

Yeah Like if you win an

12:43

award early in the season and your speech is

12:45

really good are people putting you down

12:47

for the winner? Because they want

12:49

to hear you again. Yeah, and I don't know if

12:51

there you know We we're all making

12:53

this up but like I do think that like

12:55

G Maddy has been really charming and Also,

12:58

I'm kind of not not not bringing so

13:00

much attention to it But kind of reminding

13:02

people that like he got fucked over for

13:04

sideways like he did not get nominated for that.

13:06

We love to swear in my house Oh,

13:08

I'm sorry. I thought we

13:10

were in America. The way we did not have an

13:12

answer. Are we not are we in

13:14

communist Russia? No, but but

13:17

like I just think his speeches have been

13:19

really charming and like really reminding people that

13:21

like Oh, this is an actor who for

13:23

whatever reason has not gotten this kind of

13:25

major major attention in his entire You

13:28

know almost three decade career and that

13:31

narrative is really Compelling

13:34

in a way that maybe Killian Murphy who

13:37

also has had a long career, but he's

13:39

like British She's like been doing that stuff

13:41

like he's not one of us like, you

13:43

know Like I don't know, you know, I

13:45

mean like, you know, like you think about American actors winning it

13:47

Daniel Day-Lewis Gary Oldman, I

13:49

mean those are classic American actors, but this

13:51

is the Brendan Fraser thing. Last year That

13:53

was someone they knew but when a pressure

13:55

didn't win. Or

14:00

memories of get Waved at the end of every

14:02

awards season. Turns out I'm I don't think Richard

14:04

will ever forget when he won an oscar well

14:06

before we sit in Sioux. head of the mechanics

14:08

is a word says in the house and everything

14:10

I mean. To David as us and even it's endless

14:13

events all the time. You have been telling me that are

14:15

people keeping it doesn't have interests you and I don't even

14:17

remember who it was but we are some one of the

14:19

critics' choice what their favorite movie was and they immediately

14:21

said sort of interest else like oh it's all happening in

14:23

front of me What else are you just hear you at

14:26

what so the gets in the air in a way that

14:28

we might not see. These awards shows but is

14:30

getting that base of support. I'm

14:32

I'm not saying this because we have are

14:34

some wonderful people from movie here, but I

14:37

think Pillars of the Flower Moon has had

14:39

a really interesting week and on Apple now

14:41

arm and it's been rediscovered in some ways

14:43

as a movie that has stuck around since

14:45

can and really any time a movie gets

14:48

brought up on at this point it's worth

14:50

paying attention to begin. some of those movies

14:52

that have been talked about for so long

14:54

I doesn't always last that way, even if

14:56

they end up getting nominated. That's definitely one.

14:59

American Fiction is a movie that I think

15:01

has a lot of support. Especially with in

15:03

Los Angeles. Other people I think there is

15:05

a big and Gm events on for that

15:07

movie with Daniel Craig and Barbara Broccoli. Ups

15:10

in attendance do not discount Power. That's so

15:12

we says I've got worse and but we're

15:14

going on around or I am I reading

15:16

this is we have this argument when we

15:18

talk about or it's predecessor her power has

15:20

gotten back on the case. Yes my new

15:23

like three major I for was like girl

15:25

do it again we haven't done. I haven't

15:27

been around table interview in a long time

15:29

but if we get Francis Fisher we like

15:31

to speak Lancer. Fisher is the most

15:33

powerful and for two months in Los

15:36

Angeles princess remind arises don't really. Everybody

15:38

is clear clear way I'm sure we

15:40

give i'm on tax yes I'm sorry

15:43

for the Fisher is the President of

15:45

Local. Mayors

15:47

of an Earth Young So Francis Fisher

15:49

of course was a and instrumental figure

15:51

last year in the great actor in

15:54

Titanic Yes, it was married to Clint

15:56

Eastwood for a long time industry icon.

15:58

like a Mile Los Angeles I. The

16:00

economy Go Board of Governors member? Yeah, oh

16:02

yes, definitely in the academy we actually got

16:04

us or Europe and the are as was

16:06

able to run a notable is right. So

16:09

she was a huge factor in the to

16:11

Leslie last minute push last year and. Peralta.

16:14

Lot of big names and Hollywood to see

16:16

the movie to post about the movie. Ah,

16:18

and that ultimately led to a shock nomination

16:20

for Andrea Riseborough. And so there were some

16:23

new social media guidelines put out. As a

16:25

result of that. A lot of controversy because

16:27

Arise Burrow pushing out Daniel Detwiler, Viola Davis

16:29

are notably And so there was a question

16:32

of. If. Something like that would happen

16:34

again this year because on the one hand

16:36

it works so shockingly for a tiny movie

16:38

with a giant heart is so are those

16:40

who know they know this is ah but

16:42

also that was so clearly a little etti

16:44

in terms of the optics of Am and

16:46

how they club is not use tiny movie

16:48

with a giant hurt as a tagline for

16:50

Come In Her Room. See

16:53

should they said sorry

16:55

Luckily now and later

16:57

hits I'm. And it

16:59

came up with origin this year.

17:01

I went on Francis Fisher's Twitter

17:03

on like Friday and it was

17:05

like this: you pretend learned or

17:07

know you bathroom. Tweets retreat

17:09

about origin and our our I mean

17:11

did it is it became her obsession and

17:14

other. That's interesting and there are some jokes

17:16

about it like oshie that it again

17:18

And then suddenly there's Holland Taylor who was

17:20

a vague and Sarah Paulson who were big

17:23

suffers vendor. As for a posting about it

17:25

and then I saw was it yesterday. Ah,

17:28

that Angelina Jolie hosted a screening with ingenue

17:30

Alice. yes, I'm to is the star the

17:32

film and a as it just takes stepping

17:34

back to have an antonym. alice's brilliant and

17:36

this one good or so And it is

17:39

appropriate, if maybe a little cynical that the

17:41

effort is going towards a black actors who

17:43

deserves to be in the conversation isn't After

17:45

what happened last year, I can see how

17:48

that might have played out. It makes lot

17:50

of sense, but she actually deserves to be

17:52

part of that conversation arm. And I think.

17:55

I mean I think she can get nominated this

17:57

point as we've learned a very small batch of

17:59

really passion voters can get you through in authors

18:02

were specifically that's what's so interesting about at the

18:04

I think the idea that this little effort and

18:06

there are a lot of actors at this point

18:08

who have posted about the film who have really

18:10

encourage people to. Not

18:13

vote for it. That's the difference because they can't

18:15

do that anymore as directly on but to see

18:17

at see it and I'm on. it wasn't as

18:19

something. See it. easy need to see as many

18:21

as bearing says Arabian the Rings. I believe that.

18:23

Something. That even had talked about about the idea

18:25

just trying to get visibility for the movie like

18:27

a silly. She'd been really frank about it. So

18:29

it they are answering a need that was existing

18:31

that. We. Were aware of yes I'm and

18:33

a think she's achieved that. I think

18:35

I'm now. The question is it has

18:37

the visibility got the perfect time you

18:39

have a lead contenders was nominees and

18:41

supporting for years ago was very deserving.

18:44

Ah how far can that go down?

18:46

This is a real industry on Sonos

18:48

has been around forever. If you guys

18:50

all have and your seats Francis Fisher.

18:53

Summer thought of snow I think though

18:56

because I mean, the movie is an

18:58

interesting experiment Origin it doesn't quite work.

19:00

I don't think entirely. But like

19:03

ingenue, Alice is undeniably like

19:05

this. From. Says narrating a lot

19:07

of the movie for your kind of

19:09

with her for two plus hours and

19:11

it's an impactful performance regardless of it's

19:13

weird experiments in the movies, weird experience

19:15

and form. And like is a documentary

19:17

as it is narrative film. whatever. Ah,

19:19

any, I think you're right, David Like

19:21

that is Francis Fishers Terrible. The scene

19:23

working towards something interesting and like good.

19:25

Not that enter Retro as wasn't She

19:27

was very good and right in that

19:29

movie, but like eighty. It. is

19:31

interesting to see like the reaction to

19:33

what happened last year kind of retrain

19:36

it's gaze on to something else and

19:38

then francis fisher in that kind of

19:40

accidental thing and and her cohorts realising

19:42

like a when i have power here

19:44

so let me kind of redirect that

19:46

power into a different direction which is

19:48

kind of in a weird way the

19:50

narrative of a lot of hollywood it's

19:52

like okay so we have this ability

19:55

to highlight people to wrap to whatever

19:57

let's figure out how to like put

19:59

that power to use in

20:02

a productive way. Yeah. Do you think she's

20:04

going to get in? Angie Nuevalles? This

20:06

is our last episode before nominations come out, which

20:09

is crazy. Well, I'm a lot

20:11

for nominations, so that's the latest four people. And

20:13

you can thank Frances Fisher for that, by the

20:15

way. I paid her $10 million.

20:19

Gotta cut that. Brett, you gotta cut. No, no, I

20:21

don't know. I don't know. I don't maybe, I think maybe

20:23

it happened too late. That's what we

20:25

thought about Andrea Risborough. I guess

20:28

it was kind of the same timeline. I don't

20:30

think it's too late. I think it's one interesting

20:32

dynamic with this movie is there's a lot about

20:34

Ava DuVernay and what she achieved with the movie

20:36

and is it targeted enough? It kind of splits

20:38

the vote because people are like, wait, is

20:41

this campaign to nominate Angie Nuevalles? Is my

20:43

ballot just for origin? Is

20:45

it a straight origin ticket like Julian Morris' Super

20:47

Mario Brothers? Like

20:50

how does that work? I mean, because Ava

20:52

famously was not nominated for Selma, which was

20:54

crazy in its year.

20:58

And yeah, so maybe the campaign

21:00

is more for Ava DuVernay than it

21:02

is for Angie Nuevalles. But that's like a much

21:04

steeper climb. Yeah, those directors don't live here. Yeah,

21:06

those directors want to nominate a bunch of Europeans

21:08

who you never see coming, which is what happens

21:10

every year. Little

21:17

Gold Men sponsors include Apple

21:19

Original Films presenting Killers of

21:21

the Flower Moon, a masterful

21:23

story of love and betrayal.

21:26

At the turn of the 20th century, oil

21:28

had brought immense fortune to the

21:30

Osage nation, attracting shockingly

21:33

brazen and greedy outsiders.

21:35

Based on a true story, the

21:38

film is told through the improbable

21:40

romance of Ernest Burkhart and Molly

21:42

Kyle, played with stunning

21:44

complexity by Leonardo DiCaprio and

21:46

Golden Globe winner Lily Gladstone,

21:48

who brings an extraordinary soulfulness

21:50

and resilience to the role.

21:54

Directed by Martin Scorsese and also

21:56

starring Robert De Niro, Killers

21:58

of the Flower Moon is for your own. Or

22:00

consideration. In all categories, rated

22:02

R. I'm

22:05

very particular. We've talked longer about the race and I thought

22:07

we were going to what I don't want to keep or

22:09

guess waiting forever. Some which appeared abruptly to

22:11

talking about these shows. Yes, I'm. How

22:14

are the Emmys? How do we feel about of a

22:16

we wasn't but the Emmys they just happen is we're

22:18

recording this on and feel like as the project of

22:21

awards shows and our interest in them like it is

22:23

interesting to watch them even if. The winners themselves

22:25

are not relevant to oscar season. And

22:27

was really interested in what they did with is

22:29

a Anderson and and also the Dentist Alger and

22:31

the Fits and the way they really lean into

22:33

that for the Emmys I thought really worked and

22:35

it's the kind of thing that I think the.

22:37

Oscars are terrified of will. What

22:39

works is that awards shows and

22:41

I don't mean that pejoratively out

22:43

all our corny there sir like

22:46

glitzy long evenings were rich people

22:48

celebrate them this this and we

22:50

was like they had like you

22:52

know and like but we all

22:54

have. Entered. Into that social contract.

22:56

Yes, I don't like when the Emmys or

22:59

the Oscars or whatever other show tries to

23:01

be cool and be like working a lower.

23:03

The stayed within a week. Oh I see

23:05

Henson is. The year

23:08

that Will Smith's slapped Chris rock let

23:10

that our with a low stage if

23:12

there had been a more step flight

23:14

or normally ariza that every now and

23:16

I mean it never would have happened

23:18

if well as welcome at the on

23:20

step for have a link what am

23:22

I doing as and censor our right

23:24

you are right for it was only

23:26

two steps and so we with the

23:28

i was the only owning a dinner

23:30

right there. Yeah like we've all had

23:32

to scepticism and I think that or

23:34

scepticism for you know more reliable on

23:36

foot or we've only. Thing

23:39

of I think the tinkering with the award

23:41

shows like obviously the covert are like they

23:43

had to figure out something but in general

23:46

that that these producers are trying to like.

23:48

be cool and like or organ make it

23:50

silly to club or whatever. Let no one

23:53

wants that sets we just want standard hi

23:55

stays golden set you know, setting whatever award

23:57

shows. Yep and I think the Emmys Senate.

24:00

That and they also were corny with the

24:02

set sail we're bringing about the like to

24:04

all the old Tv show said sen have

24:06

the cast reunite them as we're celebrating Tv

24:08

it was. it is. The Emmys was a

24:10

show about shows and I think that worked.

24:13

There was a real contrast to with how

24:15

the Emmys often run on a particular network.

24:17

They always alternate between the for broadcast networks

24:19

and they'll have like the stars of this

24:21

strange Fox procedural that you've never heard of

24:24

who were paired and it's like what, What

24:26

is this an they're presenting Best Actress and

24:28

now this doesn't quite have the weight that

24:30

it probably should. But

24:32

this year they really did away

24:34

with that and it was like

24:36

every presenting team felt meaningful an

24:38

interesting on bringing the cast of

24:40

Martin together with so surprising an

24:42

interesting. Arm And I think that those

24:45

kinds of parents contributed to Winter Branson being three

24:47

times as emotional as she probably out of the

24:49

absolutely a year Ago and Carol Burnett Blu Ray

24:51

or to the Got Married the Customer and very

24:53

pointedly be like we never got this kind of

24:56

award, The tents and I'm like and kind of

24:58

likes signing a light on the Emmys. Not.

25:00

So great. History has also instructive in God

25:02

and my at it would maybe be that

25:04

next year you bring the it's always sunny

25:06

in Philadelphia, cast out and have them do

25:08

it rather than doing that bit twice in

25:10

one year. but it was nice has their

25:12

own there has spread some but it was

25:14

a challenge show from the beginning it was

25:16

pushed so many months. Nobody's. Talking

25:19

that to be right now is like the

25:21

movies or what's in the conversation. The ratings

25:23

are really really bad for the ice this

25:25

that the younger they were really bad weather,

25:28

not the opposite of football game. learn some

25:30

yeah and apparently the Republican primaries off and

25:32

running. I owe his recent i'm sure what

25:35

are you home and I'm yeah that started

25:37

last night I am and I think that's

25:39

when you have. That.

25:42

Against you, it may be encouraged

25:44

them to think a little bit

25:46

outside the box to actually pay

25:48

homage to what they were celebrating

25:50

in a way that felt significant

25:52

that could maybe. Provide.

25:54

A blueprint for how they can move

25:56

forward as to your question as to

25:58

whether the Oscars. Follow something like

26:01

that. They did

26:03

try to do a few reunions a few

26:05

years ago and it was kinda confusing and

26:07

over praise, I think that was the Will

26:09

Smith. Send. Me: I don't

26:11

know why he lives. they don't have google in

26:13

front of. I know, I miss. I miss the

26:15

past winners. Giving them. Testimony.

26:18

To each nom Oh my God Those are things going on

26:20

for a man. That everyone hated them. And we'll explore

26:22

her flicking. Yeah we were the second one

26:24

in the morning and their did not to

26:26

have an im gonna cost resigning religious but

26:29

I I just I just think the pomp

26:31

and circumstance is the whole point you know

26:33

and I think that like the Oscars is

26:35

here will be fine. Whatever. Mean

26:38

that we thought of our hosts since like well like.

26:40

You. Watch John Malaney do with the Governor. It's

26:42

aware that he was so good and with

26:45

like that kind of right mix of like

26:47

high brow humour but also kind of silliness

26:49

and celebrated movies for making fun. The movies

26:51

like that's a delicate balance to strike and

26:53

I thought that Anthony Anderson get it out

26:55

well with the shows. I thought the Chelsea

26:57

Handler did that obviously Jo Koy with Amazing

26:59

right now and as as a great point

27:01

because joke I have spent the last week.

27:04

Basically. Saying Hollywood's a bunch of softies

27:06

and ah and that Moscow but with South

27:08

and eating is immediately after that. You had

27:10

John Malaney playing to almost the exact same

27:12

audience at the Governor's Awards pool and I

27:14

was there they were laughing hysterically. They had

27:17

a great time, he's not like a nice

27:19

com I could is gonna play nice with

27:21

everybody who not the meanest guy in the

27:23

world but you know he's thrown some barbs

27:25

or and then you had Chelsea Handler who

27:27

does her Chelsea Handler thing and she can

27:29

be a little raunchy and and do her

27:32

usual stick and it played really well. And

27:34

then you can have an Anthony Anderson

27:36

who is not as typical the Comedian

27:38

house and he's a little bit more

27:41

in with the performers and he felt

27:43

very present which I appreciate it because

27:45

the host of so often disappears to

27:47

their opening monologue and again here was

27:49

a model for how you can do

27:51

this and to have you to do

27:53

jokes and also participate in bits. Likely

27:55

he's happy that yeah. So to have

27:58

three different posts really distinctive appeals. The

28:00

humor all do a good job.

28:03

Tells. Me that it is possible the

28:05

I'll be Not ever and should be running

28:07

away from this gave which is the have

28:09

I just think the with with a Gun

28:11

in Missouri like We Live is crazy year

28:14

where Barbie was the biggest hit of the

28:16

year was the cultural phenomenon of like kind

28:18

of a second half centuries and like it

28:20

was a huge deal and all of that

28:23

finally in a televised or it so like

28:25

let's let's have this comedian like to still

28:27

all of that all of this a success

28:29

and whatever and they are you going with

28:32

is written word I'm. Going to the word

28:34

boobies. Like that

28:36

we show for like a grandmother to

28:38

all of the the cultural information was

28:40

like movies like what. I

28:43

would be better at hosting that so that he was

28:45

like pay me the fiber thousand dollars when I'm yep

28:47

no a He probably did not dependent but. I

28:49

mean we know what we're getting was it makes him while he's us. Any

28:51

alligator. He presents is expected to the for

28:53

now but I'm. Like Jimmy Kimmel not going to

28:55

change when he does it as I've always unedifying. I don't

28:58

think he says the great till like I've always been a

29:00

fan of that but it's the like this the sucks around

29:02

at the building. Sets for the reunion said the Emmys I

29:04

thought worked. So well the kind of makes you understand what you're looking.

29:06

At the exhibit extensive the acceptance speeches and

29:08

I was wondering i don't actually know he

29:10

gets feel about I think as the innocent

29:13

mom was great. I kind of enjoyed her

29:15

presence and all. They only did it twice.

29:17

The idea of a killer who won last

29:19

year. But not me.

29:22

The short. The speeches were relentlessly short. People didn't seem

29:24

to mind. I mean, a lot of them had one

29:26

the night. Before it destroys the words as we saw

29:28

David. That is my answer. For didn't do. We

29:30

feel like maybe it's acceptance. Pieces said

29:32

gets shorter. It feels like sacrilege. Say

29:34

no, To thank you. I want the

29:37

mechanism in place that like keeps the

29:39

show running on time but also for

29:41

Melissa Leo to do. Melissa Leo is

29:43

still giving her. A

29:46

thin hand urinate. On when he's already filled.

29:48

naming. People as a as an older than

29:50

average person with will ceiling and always sit

29:52

know I are as you want. He wants

29:55

to allow room for that kind of rambling,

29:57

exciting moment. I mean maybe only assume people

29:59

didn't have access input on the Emmys did

30:01

feel a little bit like. Millet.

30:04

Like regiment to get like in a in

30:06

a way that it felt less loosen. Sort

30:08

of exciting because everyone felt very on miss

30:10

and south I'm and you know what the

30:12

oscar to be that? Yeah, it's a kind

30:14

of. It's a balance and it honestly

30:16

I think it's a matter feeling it out

30:18

a little bit like with somebody like surely

30:20

Ralph and Emmys from the year before this

30:23

one that went on for a little while

30:25

and I was by far the best motor

30:27

the name and see saying her speech and

30:29

it was so he was a breathtaking as

30:31

amazing. I've never seen anything like that on

30:33

an awards show before. But

30:36

I think having these the standard of

30:38

don't talk too long. Ah,

30:40

And. Being. Able to react

30:42

in the moment if someone doing something of

30:44

a more meaningful may be giving them the

30:46

space to do it. I say that and

30:48

I know it's basically impossible. Agree that and

30:51

grab really awkward cut offs and it doesn't

30:53

go out. Soderbergh started that President went with

30:55

he did the Oscars in in I'm Twenty

30:57

Four when he only wine at the train

30:59

season. In a way where he was like

31:01

I'm producing So and earth and so I

31:03

have instructed all the winners to not sank

31:05

individual names. no one wants to your the

31:07

they married and or whatever. Just.

31:10

Share. An anecdote like say something personal.

31:13

And the Emmys is here on to or maybe more

31:15

occasions they have like Wind Branson when she one way

31:17

up there with like there was a cup or thing

31:19

in the bottom of the screen that was like as

31:21

she would also like to thank they had quite as

31:23

feels like an interesting thing to sort of employment where

31:25

it's like okay don't we don't have an humane has

31:27

been sentinel. With his

31:29

brother? never enough. Ah so what if we

31:31

just had like Anne Hathaway or whoever leaked

31:33

winning an oscar? Just like speaking from the

31:35

heart, not having to go through the list

31:37

of like and my lawyer in whatever light

31:39

and or know. I mean Clinton Branson had that

31:41

with. They also give her time like she was emotional, young

31:43

new to lean into that like it unseemly get my word

31:46

like as they entered his mom as I can pull off

31:48

stage but then when like Jennifer cool as is accepting for

31:50

the second year in a row she's like okay Final Plan:

31:52

To the bet and go said he read the

31:54

room well there has to be an intuitive producer

31:56

for like actually like engaged during the broadcast was

31:58

like. Cute. The player physic for

32:00

this person and don't and and hold it for

32:02

this person. Young and I think Liberty Military Intuitive:

32:04

Have you ever watch the video of the Control

32:06

Room in Cuba Gooding Jr. One that this it's

32:09

on you tube. See as I somewhere in

32:11

a room where the guys like started. I care

32:13

of others like him in Cuba Gooding Jr like

32:15

talking louder and louder in the control room. There

32:17

louder like it's incredible. It's like watching ballet happening.

32:19

Because you could never play that off like that. would know

32:21

what many were. I think that he can take the talk

32:23

of talking over it. made it look like the our sub

32:26

in the world. Honestly, I.

32:28

Must Try License Fitness. Center

32:31

has an or some. I think we're gonna take a quick

32:33

pause and ah Richard. never going to go to the bar

32:35

or whatever it is that you though I'm going to welcome

32:37

in our guess when kills of the flower Moon. So odd.

32:40

Thank you for being here for little building and loan thing.

32:43

Is I suspect a. High.

32:51

So. Long

32:57

that don't. Have.

33:03

To follow N B C

33:05

O these photos and forces

33:07

of hello the bar. Moon.

33:09

Hey you guys. Still,

33:12

Thank you for joining us here. Has

33:15

everybody doing characters. The final gas of

33:17

many many conversations about this movie for

33:19

no other. A feeling. Great

33:22

happy to be with these two! Korean.

33:24

Well. Usually when you haven't I'm

33:26

giving interviews. It's happened before You talked about

33:28

how you are brought into this movie for

33:30

think ten days to the a clothing consultant

33:32

But it seems like from the very beginning

33:34

you're like Sundays flake. I think this is

33:36

getting be him much longer process. So how

33:38

did how did that process wherever you are?

33:41

Jacqueline began working together on this and and

33:43

build a partnership that you have no. Well.

33:46

you know when you start getting into

33:49

the different layers of the silhouettes that

33:51

we have at our clothing and as

33:53

silhouettes have not changed forever hundred and

33:56

fifty years and so really sitting down

33:58

me see how many multiple ways

34:00

a man can wear a blanket and

34:03

how many multiple ways a woman can

34:05

wear a blanket or a shawl. And

34:07

we have three different types just for that

34:09

type of covering. Then you have something

34:12

like the wedding coat. And

34:14

I just knew that it was

34:16

going to be a situation where

34:18

you're looking at particular research photos

34:20

of which Jackie had thousands. But

34:24

within those photographs of

34:27

these historic Osages,

34:30

you're really looking at the subtleties

34:32

of who they are and how

34:35

they're representing themselves out into the

34:37

world. And so if

34:39

you have someone like a Chief Bonnie

34:41

Castle, he's going to be wearing this

34:43

very long style blanket. But

34:45

it tells you that he's a man of importance.

34:48

You're looking at Molly. And so

34:51

she is in this situation where

34:53

you have Lizzie Q and then

34:56

you have Anna and then you have Molly.

34:58

Then you have Rita and Minnie. And

35:01

so you're watching a family

35:05

where this world has been forced in

35:07

on them. And

35:10

so for Lizzie Q, because

35:12

at that time she

35:14

and her husband both were raised on the

35:16

prairie and we lived off the land,

35:18

the value of money was nothing to

35:20

us because we traded and really hunted for

35:22

everything, for all of our needs. And

35:26

so you see the history of that

35:28

trade through people that would come across

35:30

our lands. And people are

35:32

always talking about how it's a peace pipe, but

35:34

that's what schools tell you. The

35:36

reality is that we were our own border patrol.

35:39

We had our own borders. We wanted to know

35:41

the same things that we want today with the

35:43

borders we have now. How long are

35:45

you going to be here? Why are you coming across?

35:47

What is your reason? And so

35:49

a lot of that you see in the history of

35:52

the clothing. So you've got

35:54

Lizzie Q who's traditional. And

35:56

so she's coming in with these children.

36:00

They basically came in, the government did and

36:02

said, we will either cut your rations or

36:04

you need to send your children to boarding

36:07

schools. The boys would go to military

36:09

schools, the girls would go to Catholic

36:11

girls schools, most of

36:14

them within Osage anyway. So

36:16

what would happen is, you know,

36:18

these girls have come back and

36:21

you see each one of these young

36:23

women now representing themselves within a world

36:25

that they're trying to fit into. They're

36:28

trying to find their place and

36:31

a safe place. So

36:33

you have Anna who's completely decided

36:36

to go into the 1920s

36:38

contemporary world. And

36:40

so, you know, from the photographs that Jacqueline had,

36:43

we could tell that that is where she had

36:45

really put her place in this place, in this

36:47

world. Then you look at

36:49

Molly who is identifying in her heart with

36:51

Osage. This is who she is. And

36:54

she understands this really in her being.

36:57

So what's happening is she's coming out

36:59

and she's representing herself in these Osage

37:01

clothing which is all traditional. Then

37:04

you have the other two girls, Rita and Minnie.

37:07

Rita and Minnie are committing to

37:09

a contemporary style. But

37:12

then what they're doing is bringing these blankets

37:14

and these shawls in and we wore those

37:16

from Odyssey and they wore them in different

37:18

ways for different situations

37:21

that would be going on. They're wearing

37:23

a funeral, baby naming, you

37:25

know, these certain and so they have

37:27

certain things that they're wearing for these

37:30

particular situations. And each one of

37:32

those is going to

37:34

be placed on them and folded

37:36

differently for whatever they're doing. Molly

37:38

goes to see Pitt's beauty. She's

37:41

wearing a shawl. She walks in

37:43

to talk business with him. Those

37:46

shawls are basically covering us for

37:48

modesty. And she's letting him

37:50

know I've come to do business with you.

37:52

You have a delegation of Osages. They

37:54

are all going, men and women. Tube

37:57

Washington, D.C. to talk to President Coasey.

38:01

And so what's happening is you

38:03

have this power suit that's really

38:05

being worn. And they're

38:07

walking in mass to let them know,

38:09

and now I'm talking about the White

38:11

House, we are here

38:13

to do business with you. We are

38:16

wearing our very best, and we're showing you

38:18

who we are. And you can imagine 60

38:21

or 70 natives who

38:24

you really aren't familiar in ever seeing brown

38:26

skin that often. And

38:28

they're walking in mass up to the White

38:30

House, and I can't imagine what

38:32

they must have thought at the White House when

38:34

they saw them coming in. And

38:37

so they're making a statement. And

38:40

so we do those same things today when

38:42

we go on our own visits to the

38:44

White House. I've been to the White House

38:46

three times in my ribbon work blanket. I

38:48

used to live there. And it's

38:50

one of those where I'm honoring the person that

38:52

I'm with, but I'm

38:54

also telling them I'm here as

38:58

an individual showing you who I am.

39:00

And that's what we were

39:02

portraying in the movie. I think

39:04

that's a pretty great sense of – I

39:06

can ask Jacqueline what Julie brought, and it seems like

39:08

she just showed us what she brought in terms of knowledge.

39:12

But I was really struck what you said before about

39:14

how when you're building costumes for characters, you build them

39:16

a closet, like what Molly would have had in her

39:18

closet. And kind of Jacqueline, I think you said is

39:20

that, you know, Lilly, you'd be able to come and

39:23

say, like, what would she wear in this instance? And

39:25

for you guys, that's a lot of freedom for you

39:27

to give to the actors, but also, Lilly, I imagine

39:29

as an actor, it helps you immensely

39:31

with building who the character is, of having that

39:34

selection put in front of you by someone like Jacqueline. How does

39:36

that work? Yeah,

39:38

we would talk about it quite a bit. And

39:40

then I remember at some point through the

39:43

process after Jackie and I had these conversations,

39:46

usually came down to the shoes.

39:48

Because Jackie had these gorgeous shoes

39:50

built that Molly would have had

39:52

made custom with the money that

39:54

she had, and, you

39:56

know, the shoes that you wear in town when you're going to go meet with

39:58

your guardian, you wear the clothes that you wear. closed-toe

40:00

heel, European

40:02

or American style shoe. And

40:06

then also just tracking how

40:08

Molly was feeling with her

40:10

illness, with diabetes, and

40:12

with her pregnancy, and when the mocks

40:14

would go on. So a lot of

40:17

times that's kind of what the conversation

40:19

would come down to. Yeah,

40:22

and then kind of discussing, all

40:24

right, when are we stylizing a beautiful, what

40:28

was that for many's

40:30

funeral? What was the Ukrainian,

40:32

was it Hungarian? The

40:34

shawl. The shawl. The Hungarian shawl. Was it Hungarian?

40:37

But it was also, there

40:39

were a lot of conversations about

40:42

how you would wear the shawl. And

40:45

mainly once, if you're

40:47

working with a consonant axis, like Lily,

40:50

they really find the character

40:52

very early on. And

40:56

I've always said that costume was the

40:58

bridge between the actor and the character.

41:01

And once you really get to know

41:03

that character, like I feel I

41:06

got to know Lily, I

41:08

got to know Molly through Lily, and

41:11

how she was becoming her,

41:14

they dress themselves. You make a closet,

41:16

like we were talking about, with all

41:18

the possibilities that she would

41:20

have had at her

41:23

disposal in Osage

41:26

country, and what skirt

41:28

she would have, what just by who

41:30

she was, that she was traditional, what

41:32

her taste would be in blankets. And

41:34

then it kind of just came

41:36

together. The character dresses themselves.

41:41

One of my more fond memories is on our

41:43

last scene, like our last

41:45

scenes of shooting, Jackie

41:47

had built a shirt for me,

41:49

a ribbon shirt entirely out of

41:51

silk, for me as my

41:54

rap gift with Molly stitched in, and I

41:56

still have it. But me,

41:58

I walk in my trailer. and I

42:00

see this beautiful shirt hanging up and

42:02

then this other beautiful shirt hanging up.

42:04

I'm like, oh, she's letting me choose. So

42:07

I ended up choosing the shirt that Jackie built

42:09

for me as my rap gift and I'm wearing

42:11

it in one of the last scenes. And

42:16

I think wardrobe is very

42:20

much where I found the last elements

42:22

of Molly. I mean, usually it is

42:24

with any character that you play. And

42:27

I remember the first fitting that I had with

42:30

Julie. You

42:33

were tying me into one of the

42:35

broadcloth skirts with the butterfly pleat. And

42:39

I feel like there's a perception

42:41

a lot of people have of

42:44

Native people, especially if you're enthralled

42:46

by us from a new

42:48

agey perspective that everything's loose and

42:50

free. And it's just like, no,

42:53

we're very protocol people, very

42:55

particular protocol people, very

42:57

proper, especially traditionalists. And

43:01

I mean, I don't know how you guys wear five

43:04

layers of wool broadcloth in the middle of

43:06

the summer, but you do it. Gladly.

43:10

Eventually,

43:12

you know, you sweat enough, you've got a natural

43:15

cooling system. And then I would so

43:17

much rather wear that much wool than that much polyester

43:19

in the summer. I'll say that. But

43:22

yeah, Julie tied me in after I was wrapped

43:25

in the broadcloth skirt, which is a blanket

43:27

folded a number of ways and then you're

43:30

tied into it. And I

43:32

was kind of just slumped and then

43:34

suddenly my spine was straight. The

43:36

way you have to hold your shoulders to

43:38

hold the blanket is almost in like first

43:41

position, like ballet first position. And I

43:43

think I said to you, like, oh, I

43:45

get how this nation burst

43:47

America's first prima ballerina. Maria

43:51

Tallchief from Fairfax, Oklahoma is Osage.

43:53

She was married to George Balanchange,

43:55

co-founder of the New York City

43:57

Ballet is America's first prima ballerina.

44:00

ballerina, Bally Ruth. Little

44:06

Gold Men sponsors include Apple Original

44:08

Films. Named best filmed

44:10

by the National Board of Review, Killers

44:13

of the Flower Moon is an epic

44:15

Western crime saga and a story of

44:17

love and betrayal. At

44:19

the turn of the 20th century, oil

44:22

had brought immense fortune to the Osage

44:24

Nation, attracting greedy outsiders who

44:26

will stop at nothing to make

44:28

this wealth their own. Based

44:31

on a true story and told through

44:33

the improbable romance of Ernest and Molly

44:36

Burkhart, played by Leonardo DiCaprio

44:38

and Lily Gladstone. From

44:40

Academy Award winning director Martin Scorsese

44:43

and also starring Robert De Niro,

44:46

Killers of the Flower Moon is for

44:48

your consideration in all categories, including best

44:50

picture. Rated R. Well

44:54

we have a clip from the movie that we can share that

44:57

shows off from the wedding scene which is some of the

44:59

most stunning looks in the entire film. So we can let

45:01

everybody look at that and then I'll ask you guys about it. I've

45:18

known Molly and her

45:20

sister since they

45:23

were little girls running around

45:25

making a lot

45:39

of trouble. Molly's

45:43

dear departed father, Mikaise Wai, was a dear,

45:45

dear friend of mine and beloved friend of

45:48

the heart. He always used to tell the

45:50

white men just to call him Jimmy, but

45:52

I always called him by his proper name.

45:55

Mikaise Wai, your great

45:57

respect. So

46:06

Julie, before we got started, we were talking about

46:08

that coat, which I think is absolute showstopper in

46:11

that entire scene and how those wedding coats will

46:13

have a really prominent role

46:15

in Osage life today. But the origin of them,

46:17

I think, is fascinating because I think, Jackie, you

46:19

said it felt like you found Marie Antoinette in

46:21

a horse opera all of a sudden. It's

46:23

just such a beautiful striking image. But

46:25

Julie, can you talk about why for

46:28

this period, for Molly and Ernest's wedding, why that wedding

46:30

coat would be part of the ceremony? Well,

46:33

the history of the wedding coat is

46:35

actually dates all the way back to

46:38

a delegation of Osages that went to

46:40

see Thomas Jefferson. And

46:42

they went in. It was a

46:44

US was a new country. And so they

46:47

were showing their power and might. And

46:50

so this delegation goes in. And

46:52

as we're sitting down and,

46:54

of course, with a translator and they're

46:56

talking and basically

46:59

Thomas Jefferson is really showing them

47:02

what they have and they're discussing business,

47:04

the chief looks over and

47:06

he sees this

47:08

military coat on this general

47:11

that's standing next to Thomas Jefferson.

47:14

And he really admires it. And

47:17

so when they get ready to leave, Thomas

47:20

Jefferson looks at that general and says, take that

47:22

coat off and give it to him. So

47:25

the man takes the coat off and he

47:27

gives it over as really like a diplomatic

47:29

gift to this chief. So

47:32

what happens is our

47:34

Osage men, especially in

47:37

history, even Thomas Jefferson writes about it,

47:39

but there were these big statuesque strapping

47:41

men and there was no way that

47:43

they were going to fit into this

47:46

European size military coat. And

47:49

so they took it home and they gave

47:51

it to their daughters. And

47:54

so I love the way that Jackie

47:56

says this best, but she always says

47:58

that there's this rebellious nature

48:00

about it because

48:03

they took something that was to

48:05

show power and might over us.

48:08

And these women and their families, when

48:11

these girls would get married, would take

48:13

that and we would put ourselves in

48:15

that. We would put our

48:17

own ribbons and our own ribbon work

48:19

and buttons and different things

48:22

that people had and families would gather

48:24

together. And these were all to be

48:26

given away as gifts to people who

48:28

had helped you with your wedding. And

48:30

these would be arranged marriages. You

48:33

did not marry who you loved then. These

48:36

were arranged for you. And

48:38

so when they came to underneath

48:40

the arbor for this wedding, you

48:44

would have this woman coming in and

48:46

the man that was marrying her knew

48:48

that he was marrying someone of great

48:50

prominence because they clearly had

48:53

a chief or a councilman in their

48:55

family and that had been given to

48:57

them as a gift. And

48:59

so that's the history of basically

49:02

why they wore those wedding coats.

49:04

And as it passed down in

49:06

tradition and a lot of

49:08

those meetings dissipated,

49:11

families then got together. As

49:13

they do today, we still use those coats

49:15

but not for weddings. It's for something called

49:17

passing of the drum. But

49:20

for Molly, they get together,

49:22

the whole family, and starts putting together these

49:24

wedding coats. And a lot of times you'll

49:26

see seven to eight and what we refer

49:28

to as bridesmaids but that's not how we

49:30

looked at it culturally. And

49:33

so you have these different gifts that you're going to

49:35

be giving to these different people and all of these

49:37

are going to be given away including to some of

49:39

the girls that may be in

49:42

the wedding and their family was instrumental in

49:44

helping you put this wedding on. So

49:47

Jackie, as a costume designer, when you get – you

49:49

have this historical detail, you have a scene this large with

49:51

this many people, what kind of gift is it to have

49:53

something that beautiful and

49:55

ornate to work with for a scene like this? Well,

49:58

it was a gift. What I learned

50:00

early on when I started my research on

50:03

the Osage, one of the first

50:05

things I found was this wedding code, and I'd

50:07

never seen anything like it. But

50:09

as I started digging deeper,

50:11

I realized so much of

50:13

the Osage clothing

50:15

and what they wore was so

50:18

unique from other plains

50:20

nations that I portrayed in

50:22

other movies through wardrobe. And

50:25

the wedding code, I'd never seen anything like

50:27

it, and that's when I started researching it.

50:30

And at first, when I first saw it, I

50:32

thought, oh, I can't do that. How

50:35

am I going to show that to Marty? It's so

50:37

over the top. You know, I've never

50:39

seen any kind of Native person in that.

50:41

Then when I learned the history and the

50:44

beauty of it, I got sold

50:46

on it. And when I showed him, he

50:48

loved it. And you

50:50

know, it becomes all seen in

50:52

the movie, but it's the history

50:54

that I think behind it that's

50:56

so brilliant, and how so many

50:58

of the trade items got

51:01

incorporated into it. French ribbon

51:04

and German

51:06

silver, braid,

51:10

buttons, the beadwork, and

51:12

then incorporated into

51:15

that coat are all the

51:17

other accessories, like the finger-woven

51:20

belt, the ribbonwork,

51:22

all the woodwind

51:24

embroidery, and everyone

51:27

was different. So for me, it

51:29

was the most probably the

51:31

most fun I had on the movie, creating those

51:33

coats with I have a brilliant

51:36

cutter-fitter that I've done a lot

51:38

of movies with, Rosalie Lee. She

51:40

came down from Canada. Leo

51:43

helped me get her in because she'd done all his

51:45

clothes on the Revenant. And

51:47

she's just so brilliant. And she

51:49

had a brilliant workroom, and

51:51

she made every single coat

51:54

very, very different, and

51:56

unique to each sister, each

51:58

bridesmaid. And then

52:01

Julie helped so

52:03

incredibly with, that's when

52:05

the 10-day thing was not going to work. And

52:08

I said, I said, 10 days, I need

52:10

her through the whole movie. She

52:13

got every great artisan. He told me

52:16

that on day nine. Yeah,

52:18

yeah. Every

52:21

incredible artisan involved

52:23

in this project that you saw up

52:25

there, and she calls

52:27

it kitchen art, but it's these women who traditionally,

52:30

as the traditions pass down

52:32

from mothers and aunts down

52:34

to their daughters and their

52:36

granddaughters. And they

52:39

did all the bead work, all the ribbon

52:41

work, and it made them part

52:44

of telling of this

52:46

seminal story for the Osage. They

52:48

could all get involved and be part of it. And

52:51

when they saw it in the theater, I hope

52:53

they are always going to be proud

52:55

that they worked on it. Marty

52:58

was really drawn to the whole wedding as

53:00

well. My rap

53:02

gift from him was a hand-painted

53:06

rendering or model of

53:08

a Sicilian horse cart, because

53:11

if you – look it up, just Google it. You

53:14

have a lot of great rap gifts, Michelle. Apparently,

53:18

it was in the background of Main Street. I've watched

53:20

the movie again to look for it, and

53:22

I can't find it, but it was somewhere

53:24

interested in Main Street. But it's

53:26

this beautiful wood-carved horse

53:29

pulling this cart that would

53:31

be used for weddings,

53:34

for different ceremonial

53:36

things in Sicily. And the horses would

53:38

have these really large ornate plumes on

53:41

the top of their head that looked

53:43

actually a lot like the wedding hats,

53:46

bright colors. And Marty said it had the

53:48

special significance to him because he said had

53:50

he been a boy born in Sicily, he

53:52

would have grown up being one of the

53:54

painters of those carts, because they were the

53:56

stories of the pictures painted

53:58

on these Sicilian horses. carts were

54:01

kind of the way that you would have been

54:03

a filmmaker back in old Sicily before cameras. Wow.

54:07

So it was um yeah that was a

54:09

really sweet gift to get and you know when I saw

54:11

it and when I unwrapped it and looked at it, it's

54:13

like wow! Just immediately it reminded me of the wedding scene

54:16

and Marty said that's why he chose it. He

54:18

chose to give me that because of how much

54:22

he felt like how much

54:24

he felt of his own culture reminiscent

54:27

of what he was doing with Osage as

54:29

well. Um two

54:31

very story based and

54:33

like proper

54:36

but you know expressive and bright

54:38

and beautiful and just

54:40

rich cultures. Yeah those those

54:42

cool. There were so many

54:45

people involved as actors and

54:47

characters in this film whose

54:50

relatives had been part of the

54:52

reign of care and that

54:54

was really the beauty of it. One

54:57

of the scenes that gave me chills

54:59

is one Julie mentioned we were produced

55:01

from a panoramic photo. I even got

55:03

I made 20-22 sections sent those to

55:08

Pendleton in Oregon and they

55:11

reproduced every blanket from

55:13

that original original panoramic

55:15

shot of the Osage nation

55:18

traveling to Washington DC to

55:20

do something about the murders

55:23

during the reign of terror and when

55:25

we shot that at the railroad station

55:28

that Jack built in Pawhuska,

55:31

I got chills because so

55:33

many people there came

55:35

up to me and said you know my

55:38

grandfather was part of that group or

55:41

my my great aunt was part of

55:43

the group and they all got

55:45

to be in it and be part of it and

55:48

it just that scene really brought tears

55:50

to my eyes when I

55:52

realized how many people were

55:55

involved in this story that got to be

55:57

in this movie. And

55:59

in the end The Roundhouse seen also.

56:02

Julie built Bulls were real.

56:04

A desert. There are a lot

56:07

of people that in that round

56:09

how same that had members of

56:11

their family that were on council

56:13

at that time said there were

56:15

several people that were in than

56:17

including like the Sap offered brothers

56:19

and just different people within the

56:22

community in the when saying yes

56:24

in the Red Koren swell and

56:26

there's one thing I really am

56:28

in the same that we saw

56:30

with the man that was marrying

56:32

Molly and earnest as the abdomen.

56:35

Named totally read to him. And.

56:38

I was driving around my car on a sad, sad

56:40

or day. And I used to go

56:42

to all other transfer pictures to

56:45

look to everything on Sundays and

56:47

I get this text ever my

56:49

whole screen and it's from the

56:51

producer Marion Bauer who did a

56:53

lot of really fabulous research on

56:55

this or Marti's team and also

56:57

Jacqueline An It said we have

56:59

a new character and a new

57:02

seen what would a leader were.

57:04

And so I came back to them

57:07

and sad have you ever visited the

57:09

Immaculate Conception church and Baja Sky and

57:11

because I was co that no one

57:14

had gone or when I was growing

57:16

up and I was a brownie I

57:18

would go to a Catholic churches were

57:21

they would hold our little meetings that

57:23

the window the sit or in their

57:25

own say just a lot of money

57:28

and to that church and said they

57:30

had these magnificent German stained glass windows

57:32

and there's a whole story about that

57:35

on at some where they had to

57:37

be buried a World War One and

57:39

or the Danube river when things are

57:42

being bombed and then brought them back

57:44

out and then shifts and oklahoma but

57:46

they're spectacular but there's one window that

57:49

they have still see only window in

57:51

the world that has actual indigenous people

57:53

in it that are the same likeness

57:56

because there's always faces of angels and

57:58

different people with then all of this

58:00

dangler that you see that they're never

58:03

actual likenesses of people. Well they went

58:05

to get the Pope's dispensation exactly the

58:07

same time that the story was taking

58:10

place. So in that window is the

58:12

actual likeness of she funny castle. there

58:14

is a chief bacon mind that sin

58:17

there and there are their wives and

58:19

several of these people on council members

58:21

that would have been there at the

58:24

time that the story took place in

58:26

there in that window. So I took

58:28

a screenshot off my town. And send

58:31

it over and said this is

58:33

she's back and rind and I'll

58:35

the I think it would be

58:37

a good idea if your work room

58:39

created this exact image in this

58:41

silk green shirt he as Moscow

58:43

beans he was part of Native American

58:45

church. Also you can see it

58:47

in the pectoral crossed the he

58:49

has on he's a leader you

58:51

can tell it in the water tap

58:54

with the medallion that you see

58:56

he's holding us eagle wingspan in

58:58

his blessing. Molly an earnest. With

59:00

sat san which is used

59:02

in our ceremonies everything about

59:05

him was replicated and when

59:07

we when I saw it

59:09

for the first time. It

59:12

was so moving because as a child

59:15

I loved staring at that. When I

59:17

would finish with my projects I would

59:19

ask go into the church and said

59:21

look at it so beautiful and I

59:24

saw him the life on the screen

59:26

and it just to me the whole

59:28

seen as spectacular. Well

59:32

actually and Jackie I'm really think

59:34

you guys so much for joining

59:37

us here. Think you all for

59:39

being here and making this hurts

59:41

her life Little Goldman possible that

59:43

you to apple everybody else and

59:45

will see them as a. Little.

59:57

gold men sponsors include the apple

1:00:00

original film, Killers of the

1:00:02

Flower Moon, an enthralling epic

1:00:04

from legendary director Martin Scorsese,

1:00:06

starring Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert De

1:00:08

Niro, and Lily Gladstone, a

1:00:11

Golden Globe winner for Best

1:00:13

Actress Drama. For

1:00:15

your consideration, Rated R.