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Service. Find it wherever you get

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your Bbc podcast. I

1:46

go good. Luck

1:48

came up is the name of

1:50

the facility. I

1:53

couldn't believe it. Really?

1:55

is that? it? That

1:58

sat, Yes, I think

2:00

I think that's the place you.

2:03

Out his memories that I've never

2:05

spoken about and then she has

2:07

they. They're like everything exploded inside

2:10

of me. I have run out

2:12

of the house that I wanted

2:14

to really scream it from the

2:16

mountain tops. In

2:20

one swift internet such as the from

2:23

the past three eighty mark as as

2:25

had an image of a pale yellow

2:27

house standing in the shadow at the

2:29

snow capped often out high on the

2:31

slopes for the in reserve alley. It's

2:34

been turned into fast now. But.

2:37

It's walls holes. a terrible

2:39

secret one. That was cats from the

2:41

world and from the children. Like Eve, he

2:43

has to live between them years ago.

2:50

You're listening to Live Less

2:53

Ordinary. I'm into Iraq isn't

2:55

today's episode behind the. Lox

2:57

door. Easy

3:00

Mark as is an award winning. Fighters. Endless

3:02

from Austria now living in the U.

3:04

She's been capturing the lives of people

3:06

with her camera since the eighties, but

3:09

she spent. Most of her life, keeping a

3:11

dark chapter has her own story. Hidden

3:13

from view, shut away in

3:15

her mind. Too painful. three

3:17

visit she. Even kept it from a

3:20

therapist. His credit for saving her life. Only

3:23

now in her late fifties is she started

3:25

to open up. Because. They

3:27

search on the internet a few years

3:29

ago first even past wide open the

3:31

she had to decide. If she could

3:33

confront it. Easy.

3:39

So lovely. See how you raise

3:41

good? Oh yeah nervous. And I

3:43

oh yes know they be nervous.

3:45

They me nervous. I promise. This

3:47

is gonna be very very relaxed.

3:49

Okay, oh did it to

3:52

stop Recording. Did it?

3:54

Oh no, none. And I didn't to. It's

3:56

as a killer. Oh. Shit. Her

4:01

nervousness is so clear, but

4:03

it so understandable she's not

4:05

spoken much about best publicly

4:07

and well it's be stabilizing

4:09

for. Eve. Is in a

4:11

good place now and happy That word

4:13

hair that what she recount and this

4:16

conversation about a child's it is distressing.

4:18

Her early is even before we get

4:21

into the story as The Yellow House

4:23

with Turbulent. Lonely. Difficult.

4:26

When. She was born in Austria in the mid

4:28

sixties. Her mother wasn't married and like in

4:30

many places at that time, this is a

4:32

stain on both the mother and child. If

4:35

he was sent away and place in

4:37

an hour foster families, orphanages and children's

4:39

facilities of their hopes Little to no

4:42

fond memories the her and when she

4:44

makes the Us as an adult she

4:46

vowed never to return or utter a

4:48

word Gym and again in an attempt

4:50

to keep the physical memory from resurfacing.

4:53

That. Something deep in her bones had

4:55

been keeping the school. I'm.

5:00

Afraid in the dark, so Isis

5:02

keep the lights on at all

5:04

hours. As an adult

5:07

Yes now even like it's just

5:09

never dark in my house to

5:11

there's always lived when I come

5:14

home and I have this aversion

5:16

to yeah know when I was

5:18

in Innsbruck every child got a

5:21

Cholera signed and my color was

5:23

yellow. So the color yellow became

5:26

kind of like that, the constant

5:28

reminder of being there. It's

5:30

a challenge for me to

5:33

has yellow become my friends.

5:35

I tried to remind myself

5:38

that a this a color

5:40

of this son. Enough flowers

5:43

I now have lightened just

5:45

hoping that I get over

5:48

this aversions. To. Try

5:50

and me right the past and take

5:52

the savior away. Easy even book bright

5:54

yellow sunflowers regularly as an adult. The.

5:57

All that work with a clip. One day

5:59

in twenty. Ninety One when she

6:01

made a monstrous discovery. My.

6:03

Daughter Lily and her friend were in

6:05

the house when the afternoon. So.

6:08

Did the asking me about my

6:11

childhood as I forget even what

6:13

exactly we talked about. You know

6:15

parts of my past where know

6:18

the secret that was generally pretty

6:20

open and candid about things but

6:22

be part of having been in

6:25

a mental hospital. Was

6:27

a secret because it was

6:29

so dark and on relayed

6:32

all really. Then

6:34

we went on and did whatever

6:36

device doing going upstairs. Into her room.

6:39

And having that fresh and

6:41

my mind. This hesitation

6:44

I go good. solid

6:46

to see. In

6:48

Innsbruck, I've always remembered the

6:50

addresses generally of my childhood.

6:54

and when you look the up he saw a word.

6:57

The. Eat not seen before. Yes,

7:00

What? Came up s. To.

7:03

Kinda be all buffed instead she on. The.

7:06

Name of the facility. More

7:09

doesn't mean. It's

7:11

to children's observation

7:13

station and that

7:16

rang to. And

7:20

then I read further.

7:22

It was kind of like usually.

7:25

A stat it. That

7:27

sat. It's ticket. Atmosphere

7:30

Yet and then. Dr.

7:33

Murray I know. lox Oh god yes

7:35

I think. That's where

7:37

I think that's the place. The

7:43

children's observation station, This

7:45

is a nice phrase to easy She'd

7:48

never heard it called for. The.

7:50

Be image description. The

7:52

person who ran it slowly started

7:54

to resurface in her mind and

7:56

there was more way more of

7:58

a detailed report some other people

8:00

he'd been, that accounts that struck

8:02

a chord with her own trauma.

8:05

Even. Started to read them in disbelief.

8:07

she was told that the place you've

8:09

been sent to have been a therapeutic

8:11

center for trouble children, that now she

8:13

was saying it's whole purpose was much

8:16

more sinister. Some of

8:18

the practice is be divvied was described.

8:20

it was just it all started to

8:22

make sense. It, it was

8:25

just. Really extraordinary

8:27

to have this incredible

8:29

confirmation that this. Completely

8:32

horrible place existed And not

8:34

only does it exist that

8:37

existed for reasons. Beyond.

8:40

What you had spent decades thinking.

8:43

Yes, And the penny. Drips

8:45

is hundred and. This

8:48

wasn't about taking care of me

8:50

or correction if it was a

8:52

mass experiment. Yes, Yes,

8:54

it was terrifying. I was

8:57

so overcome. But. Others

8:59

Information that. I have

9:01

run out of the house. And. Up

9:04

and down my blog. The couldn't

9:06

believe it! Exists on.

9:08

It's it's. just that. I. I

9:11

hadn't thought about this since in

9:13

in so long. I

9:15

had this memories. That. I've never

9:17

spoken about. and then. She.

9:19

Is a there and it's

9:22

really like everything exploded inside

9:24

of me. Like I just

9:26

had to get out. I had to

9:28

get out into the air. It.

9:30

Has it made me so. Angry.

9:32

That I wanted. To. Really scream

9:34

it from the mountain tops. I

9:38

was immediately confronted with

9:40

my past. And. Have a

9:43

profound way. And. I immediately.

9:46

Accept that determines. For

9:49

me, after decades and decades

9:51

of holding this shame. I.

9:53

Wanted to turn the tables. Once.

9:55

You confronted with this kind

9:57

of information, he cannot. I'm

10:00

here it or know it. You.

10:03

You. Have to deal with it. Or

10:05

it deals with. he'll. Now.

10:08

She wanted to know what was this

10:10

experiment that she'd been taught us in

10:12

this house in Innsbruck? What have they

10:14

done to. Eat, he

10:16

decided to reach back in time and find

10:18

out. Before

10:24

Easy had even. Stepped set in

10:27

the yellow house she lived with a foster

10:29

mother called any. Any.

10:33

Didn't. Like me. She.

10:35

Had a bed and breakfast. She was

10:37

married to Eric. And

10:39

ernie that you know. tourists

10:41

come and stay at her

10:43

bed and breakfast and she

10:45

made it like she was

10:47

the suffering person. This is

10:50

very difficult child. How

10:52

old were you when you arrived? as as

10:54

our. Full. Little

10:57

yeah, a little. Ya

11:00

As far back as I remember,

11:02

she started accusing me of breaking

11:04

these things in our house. So.

11:06

I became too difficult child also in

11:09

the village. On

11:11

New Years you go from house

11:13

to house and you see a

11:15

little verse was children. It's a

11:17

good luck to assert. My. Foster

11:19

sister and I did that and

11:21

seized the biological child. And people

11:23

would say. Who. Is Studio.

11:26

Child. And. Two zero

11:28

sides would get a quarter. And

11:30

I would get like a leopard. Cubs.

11:34

She was she biological child so she

11:36

was worth more. To.

11:38

Priest would take me out of school

11:41

regularly in school. to me for being

11:43

so difficult and giving. My.

11:45

Mother such a hard time. And

11:49

I always promised to be better. Or

11:51

and I get. Church service he

11:53

would choose. Put. The communion

11:55

into my mouth and say that

11:57

I was dirty. Couldn't

12:00

put in many hands

12:02

of is so I

12:04

generally. I. Didn't have anywhere

12:06

to go. I didn't have anyone

12:08

to turn to a to tell

12:10

anybody. Anything to. So.

12:13

Even when the. Child

12:15

welfare services came over. So afraid

12:17

I hid in the closet. I

12:20

would never ever have told them.

12:22

How. Bad things are. Because.

12:25

And he told me that the alternative will

12:28

be so much worse. Over

12:31

seed vault with that. Daughter. Night.

12:34

To. The daughter was. Shy.

12:38

And quiet I was

12:40

more. ah. Tomboyish.

12:43

And ten a wide eyes a kid

12:45

like to see. If it's great,

12:47

my knees and black. Climb. Trees

12:49

and analysis kind of bird. Why

12:52

didn't they substitute sounds like a i

12:54

don't know. It's puzzling.

12:57

Puzzling. Did. You have any

12:59

wants to do have any friendship in your

13:02

life? No. No,

13:04

not really. There was my

13:07

pasta aunt who left in

13:09

the house above hours. She

13:11

was sympathetic to me. So.

13:14

That was series, but it's

13:16

a small village so. Nobody

13:18

could. I

13:21

just signed and babbel like carrying.

13:24

A national and they would physical abuse if

13:26

I was in. Yes,

13:28

there was physical abuse. she would

13:30

beat me up the slack, cooking

13:33

spoons, and often accused me of

13:35

breaking things around the house like

13:37

a wobbly chair. Or or or

13:40

some mark on a wall

13:42

or. A. Dish that was

13:44

kind of stained like everything was

13:46

my fault. And she would

13:48

call me and accused me of

13:51

causing this and. When.

13:53

I deny it. She hit me until I

13:56

admit to it. And. Eventually.

13:58

I. Just started to. Me too. everything.

14:01

And. Often she would

14:03

lock me in the cellar. But

14:06

you know she would like for example,

14:08

She would lock the toilet.

14:11

And watch me. Soil

14:14

and my says ah and then

14:16

I have to was to close

14:18

by hand. In. The

14:20

Saints. Easy. So.

14:23

There were like a lot of psychological.

14:25

It kind of. Torture. It

14:27

was a humiliation. Did

14:30

you know that Innisbrook was coming? Did

14:32

you know that he might be sent

14:34

away? Know when ernie.

14:37

Got me some does us a

14:39

foster family even Alice for I

14:41

came is a box of things

14:44

from my stay there I guess

14:46

and Annie put that box in

14:48

the attic and she always pretended

14:50

to get that box and send

14:52

me on my way. So.

14:55

I became very afraid of that

14:57

box. She was always the box

14:59

to box became like this. Symbol.

15:02

Of like where I'll be. That.

15:06

Doc stayed in the Arctic. But.

15:08

Then one night in late December.

15:11

nineteen seventy three, aged just eight

15:13

years old, Without warning eve,

15:15

he was taken to the Yellow House

15:18

in Innsbruck. Good. Felt like

15:20

middle of the night a star. Crowds.

15:30

And someone came and grab

15:33

me out of my bed

15:35

of us in the bottom

15:37

bunk and transferred need to

15:39

a car. When

15:43

he was dark and it was

15:46

cold and I was really afraid

15:48

of nobody spoke, nobody said anything.

15:51

In vitro of and we drove

15:53

for a long time. And

15:58

I don't remember who was. The

16:00

car but at legally

16:02

remember my foster mother

16:04

Ernie. Being there

16:07

when the of rise in Innsbruck.

16:12

I was given kind of

16:14

institution clothing this big blue

16:16

more type underwear and and

16:18

a teens wrap around skirt.

16:21

I remember the inside of

16:23

the house of like would

16:25

everywhere on the was act

16:28

which paneling and dallas a

16:30

big fish tank in the

16:32

hallway and be and his

16:34

second floor another so large

16:36

room with the bay window.

16:45

They were. That's stacked

16:47

on top of each other

16:49

to the like this metal

16:52

cots and each hot head

16:54

of color on it to

16:56

identify whose child. Courses

16:58

which bed. And my caller

17:01

was yellow. I.

17:08

Don't remember. Exactly

17:10

when I realized it

17:13

was a mental hospital.

17:17

I just remember. Adults

17:19

and white coats. Of

17:22

a strong smell of blue and

17:24

as a loudspeaker over the door

17:26

during the day there was just

17:28

like a lot of shit. it

17:31

sounds. A

17:40

lot of ringing. And and

17:42

alarm. And then.

17:45

To the ride with the Boston

17:47

and again I had a yellow.and

17:49

my. Toothbrush: On

17:51

my cup to identify it

17:54

and we weren't allowed to

17:56

talk And a language that

17:58

has allowed us. Leave He

18:00

ate it. All. He

18:03

had to ask permission before we

18:05

did anything. So for example, if

18:07

we'd have to say please toothbrush.

18:09

Or. When. V Eight.

18:12

You. Sit at the table and

18:14

you say teaspoon? Before you

18:17

move. To. Pick up a utensils,

18:20

Thirty. Minute commute times

18:22

were downstairs in the dining

18:24

room so we would line

18:27

up. In. Our room when

18:29

the second floor. And. Then

18:31

fire down stairs into the

18:33

dining room. And. Ever big

18:35

round table is. So. That's

18:37

a supervisor on every table. Know

18:40

talking? And yet to eat what

18:42

was in your plate? Anything less

18:45

would be presented to them at

18:47

their next meal. However rotten it

18:49

became, pretty much every sadistic element

18:51

that ruled Easy and the young

18:54

children's lives was the brainchild of

18:56

the psychologist who ran the facility.

18:59

Doctor Maria Novak Fogle.

19:06

Genesis they are still woman she

19:08

was banged his large glasses and

19:11

had a nurse's uniform and she

19:13

had ah her hair tightly tight

19:15

back in a van and she

19:17

looked by stern. I

19:20

found out that she's out

19:23

nazi train doctor and has

19:25

that ideology. She

19:27

was an authoritarian, she was

19:30

obsessed this masturbation and sexuality

19:32

and and she hated says.

19:36

Are to ah, she was

19:38

revered in Austria. she was

19:40

considered an expert inside adolescent

19:42

psychiatry nausea, and she had

19:45

close ties to the Austin

19:47

welfare system, so that was

19:49

like this endless supply of

19:51

children. Doctor

19:54

know that Fogle have the ultimate say over

19:56

what happened in the end of house. She

19:58

drew up a list of. Though that all

20:00

the children had to follow. It's

20:04

pages long and it's upsurge in it.

20:06

goes into the in my new shot.

20:09

of of of such things as

20:11

like checking our underwear for for

20:13

evidence of a bathroom habits and

20:15

and. It's. It's

20:17

it's. It's. A very intrusive

20:20

environment. It's you're being watched,

20:22

you're being investigated. The want

20:24

to know. Your dreams.

20:27

You. Have to sit in the room and recounts. Your

20:29

dreams. So it's. Know

20:32

where you can't hide anywhere. The

20:35

children just lived in fear that was

20:38

zero tolerance for any resistance and even

20:40

considerably recall a really disturbing moment when

20:42

she stepped out of line. I

20:46

remember this one time when we

20:48

were allowed to line up to

20:50

get something sweet. I

20:53

was holding up my my apron

20:55

and be put something into my

20:57

april and on my skirt or

20:59

a law holding it up and

21:01

i saw answer me and i

21:03

freaked out and i must scream.

21:06

As assists listed as. By

21:10

manning coasts and take him

21:12

outside Food. I remember

21:14

being. Placed on a

21:17

cold tile floor and given

21:19

a shot and injured. And

21:21

yes, A

21:27

set. The. Scene to happen

21:29

quite regularly but easy and the other

21:32

children went told why or what they

21:34

were for. Know. It seems were

21:36

any of the parents or guardians. Even

21:39

seems it was just peel punishment.

21:42

But. When she started her research

21:44

a few years back, she found

21:47

out something to the second.to know

21:49

that Socal had administered strong sedative

21:51

including bullshit know to the children

21:54

and a strange hormone called a

21:56

Pit isn't. An. Extract from the

21:58

brains of cattle. When.

22:01

He v made the decision to journey

22:03

back to Austria and twenty twenty one

22:05

she met academics. He gave us some

22:07

clarity on this drunk and it's alarming

22:09

purpose. It pisses son is

22:12

given to cows and heat of oh

22:14

that's what it is. Was

22:16

designed for. And.

22:19

It was used by Dr. Murray on

22:21

over Coburn. To. Treat children.

22:24

Who. Masturbated. Foot.

22:26

To suppress sexual feelings in

22:28

young children? Yes, she was

22:31

subsist. Be the hottest

22:33

Upsets: She treated us like animals.

22:36

She. Dropped us this powerful medicine.

22:38

It. Was absolutely shocking to learn

22:40

this so yes, as he sexualized

22:43

certain. And as he be

22:45

learnt a peppers and was completely

22:47

experimental, no one knew what the

22:49

long term effects might be on

22:52

humans the more that even learned

22:54

about.to know that Faisal the angriest

22:56

she became. She found

22:58

out that the doctors' approach to dealing

23:01

with problem children seem to be influenced

23:03

by the Nazi view as suppose a

23:05

defect been genetically based. Couple that with

23:07

a very conservative strain of Austrian catholicism

23:10

at the time and it's belt danger

23:12

to children like Easy. I.

23:14

Learned that hop are ideologically.

23:17

it was ah to surrenders

23:19

national socialism. She was deeply

23:21

cost the like. Being

23:23

the child off a single

23:25

mother I definitely like fit

23:28

that mold off her. Had

23:30

believe that to than like

23:32

I are less than. I

23:34

met one one victim whose mother

23:37

was little money. It was

23:39

really ah, the access that she

23:41

had to the line of a

23:43

children to those who really needed

23:46

support. The the undecided

23:48

or bothers. Me: That

23:50

the outcasts of to

23:52

society. Easy

23:55

was told. That know that Socal viewed

23:57

children. He were their bad Masturbated

23:59

when left. Landed on the state

24:01

has been born. She.

24:03

Believed to be so cold effective

24:05

Children needed to be corrected. Mothers

24:07

and cared for. Attacks

24:10

Austrian society never made.

24:12

It a personal mission see me mold.

24:14

These young children in

24:16

t productive compliance. sexually

24:19

regular. Individual. Nights.

24:22

The most terrifying really. So we

24:24

would lie in bed and the

24:26

cover came to our armpits and

24:29

our arms were over the bed

24:31

to make sure that we didn't

24:34

touch the says. his hands away

24:36

from the body completely here. And.

24:39

Annoyed me True. So angry to. Think

24:41

about. I

24:45

was a bed wetter and didn't.

24:47

The mattresses has. An

24:49

alarm bells into them. It

24:51

alerted them to then decision

24:53

that the Bears So that

24:55

has they knew. Couple.

24:59

Invite Coats. Com take you

25:01

across the hallway. Any

25:05

of stand sauce up and get

25:07

an ice cold shower. As

25:10

punishment. And then he

25:13

has to stand in the corner of

25:15

the hallway. That. The

25:17

only night came from this fish

25:19

times. Like

25:24

give a scary to go to save. Their

25:27

was public shaming. The children had

25:29

to stand around. The

25:32

Bad: the next morning of the ties

25:34

that had an accident and and humiliate

25:36

and laugh at the child. The.

25:39

View as young girl sent to

25:41

the center he'd been sexually abused

25:44

was truly barbaric. They were branded

25:46

as having personality disorders. Seen

25:49

as responsible for their abuse

25:51

by suggesting the perpetrators. He.

25:54

Learned that one girl that The Yellow

25:56

House at accused her father as sexually

25:58

abusing her and she was institutionalized. As.

26:00

A liar. Though what

26:02

went on there was an advertised

26:04

widely it wasn't a total secret.

26:07

State Authorities new and Novak Vogel

26:09

had published papers on her tests

26:11

with a piss isn't. Easy.

26:14

Spoke to experts in helps had built

26:16

a picture of why or necessities and

26:18

to go on she had that the

26:20

postwar dean of the case in of

26:22

Austria was deeply flawed and some of

26:24

it's ideology to still muddied the waters

26:27

long into the latter half of the

26:29

twentieth century. Know. That vocals

26:31

Fixations were part of this and

26:33

the vulnerable children of the Yellow

26:35

House, which she ran for decades.

26:37

The had guinea pigs. It

26:40

was completely some king to find

26:42

out that it went on until

26:44

Nineteen Eighty Seven. Then. It was.

26:46

Incredibly shocking. To

26:49

find out that it affected

26:51

over three thousand, six hundred

26:53

fifty children. That was. Really?

26:56

Stunning to me because.

26:59

It is such a lonely experience.

27:01

To. Go through something like that. That

27:04

it didn't even occur to

27:06

me that. It. Could have

27:08

happened to thousands of other children.

27:11

As though. It's. Not like to

27:13

something that happened to. Me: it's something

27:15

that happens across the country.

27:19

He. Must have felt. I mean you.

27:22

Didn't know anyone, I suppose he knew nobody.

27:25

Know. You are totally aligned. Yes,

27:28

I vaguely remember the kids. But.

27:30

There was no. Connection keeps

27:33

came. And went. but good

27:35

luck. Had no idea what happened.

27:37

I had this one strong memory

27:39

of a child jumping out the

27:41

window. I

27:43

just remember the aftermath.

27:46

And always wondering what happened. To

27:49

that child. The

27:55

child observation station at The Yellow

27:57

House was allowed to run from

27:59

Nineteen Fifty Fourth and Nineteen Eighty

28:01

Seven Thirty Three. Yes, The

28:04

what the End of It's existence

28:06

A director named Kirtland Bind made

28:08

a documentary for Austrian Tv exposing

28:10

some of it's practices to a

28:12

wider audience to expose see Happen

28:14

in Nineteen Eighty. The. Fact

28:16

that it went on for another seven

28:19

years is shocking. The fact what? what

28:21

happened to card long by men? He

28:23

did the. Experts say was shocking. He

28:26

was about to lose his job and

28:28

he was gonna be banned them from

28:31

two dollars. That were still. That's

28:34

what we're dealing. With. Even

28:36

after her project was place down

28:38

in Nineteen Eighty Seven.to. know that

28:40

Fogle continue to lecture at universities

28:42

and with even awarded a medal

28:45

by the Catholic Church before her

28:47

death in Nineteen Ninety Eight. It's

28:49

no. Surprise that the children under

28:51

her control might never have questioned

28:53

these practices. Are

28:56

really blame myself. For.

28:58

Having been placed. Them.

29:01

In spoke to begin with. I

29:03

think a lot of children tend to

29:06

do that. I thought he was

29:08

my fault. I got

29:10

my childhood. Records. And

29:12

of a detailed. In

29:14

ah up serving on each

29:16

side. Any details? How

29:18

are I masturbated. That.

29:21

Is why I think. I'm

29:23

sure does. That a privileged

29:25

on. How this drug

29:27

affects a growing child isn't nine? But.

29:29

What is clear is the long lasting

29:31

impact that even time in The Yellow

29:33

House and the rest of her turbulent

29:35

childhood have had on her life. Even

29:38

never knew why she'd been sent to The

29:41

Yellow House in the first place, or why

29:43

four months later she was unexpectedly sent back

29:45

to live with her foster mother. When

29:48

you wouldn't came out with yellow house. And

29:50

will go back to Annie's. How

29:53

did that? Sale. It

29:55

was terrifying. The. Same evening.

29:58

At. The dinner table. The

30:00

he leaned over. And pointed

30:02

at a little next in the chair.

30:05

And said oh. How did that

30:07

get there? In my

30:09

heart sink. I. Knew what

30:11

that meant. That. It's.

30:15

All over again. Did

30:17

you think about telling anyone talking? About

30:19

what happened, history, asteroids, Know.

30:22

I couldn't because. The.

30:25

Village was a very kind

30:27

of kind of Felix village

30:29

so a check this insulated

30:31

culture were being the child

30:34

of a single mother made

30:36

you the child of a

30:38

whore and therefore. That's.

30:41

How you buy treat it. So.

30:43

Everybody knows each other like my foster

30:45

mother would make sure that our everybody

30:48

knew I was in a mental hospital.

30:50

So. I was really. A. Black

30:52

sheep. So. I couldn't tell anybody.

30:55

Because. He was kind of also

30:58

accepted around me that. That.

31:00

There was something wrong with me. If

31:03

he had no loving cat amidst all the

31:05

turmoil as I target. But when

31:07

she escaped from under her foster mother tongue

31:09

in her late teens, she finally. Found

31:11

some comfort and support. I

31:15

made my first. Really? Great

31:17

friends. And. Done in said to

31:19

me and andy. And. They came

31:21

back from Vienna. And. At ten years

31:24

older than I. And to

31:26

me, Roles to instill Chris made

31:28

like when us may be nineteen wow

31:30

He decided to drive that we decided

31:32

to drive the and I wanted to

31:35

get my records. I wanted to get

31:37

an explanation. Under what

31:39

conditions today? admit me there.

31:42

And of what pretense? And

31:45

I went there and it's

31:47

just opened. Their. Little. A

31:51

slider window at the door.

31:54

And. Closed It. And

31:58

I did try

32:00

harder. I. Guess I didn't

32:03

try harder. After that,

32:05

it's just. It's. Like trying

32:07

to live with that is sick. Really trying

32:09

to forget it and not let it. Be

32:11

a disruptive force in the always. She.

32:15

Tried to lock it away. Even need to

32:17

Vienna to go to university. But then she can

32:19

face it when she had to get back to

32:21

Annie's again. And I just knew

32:23

I had. I just had to lease. I had

32:25

to leave stuff. So. That night

32:27

I got this job as a wine

32:30

stored on a cruise ship. And

32:33

that's how I left Austria. He

32:35

arrived in New York in the nineteen. eighties.

32:38

Did. You kind of had an idea he'd like

32:40

to get to kneeled. No,

32:42

not at all. Ah, that

32:45

itis absolutely loved it! I

32:48

just absolutely loved it instantly. You

32:51

know it was the first place. Where

32:53

felt like. You

32:55

know, charged? Like everyone has

32:57

a story. It

33:00

must be very different to small

33:02

towns to pay to shoot. Him.

33:05

Intimidating and he was super glue on

33:07

to school or for instead you four

33:09

letter word. Here. And

33:11

you had a gift thing. If I'm your

33:14

friend Jimmy, a gift of the came became

33:16

very important to your life in New York.

33:18

Twenty about I kissed. Searching.

33:21

An Nd came to visit me once in New

33:23

York and to give me a camera. And

33:26

our as that became my

33:28

passion. So I started out

33:30

wandering the streets in New

33:33

York and that's how I.

33:36

Kind. Of discovered my love for

33:38

a photo journalism. It's.

33:40

Nice to focus on others.

33:43

And. Focus out in the world. And.

33:46

Ten other people's stories. And

33:49

to a to understand. People's

33:51

Louis. And then maybe understand

33:54

your own lawn. Easy

33:56

had escaped. She had new

33:59

horizons new. Actions. But.

34:01

The piece was always die. In the

34:03

background. I think for

34:05

me personally. It. Was really

34:07

the relationship to my own body.

34:10

That was mostly affected. Ah,

34:12

I just ike I couldn't really

34:15

hold a comfort my says and

34:17

I develop an eating disorder. I'm

34:19

sorry that for it. Easy as

34:22

awful. Yeah. So just learning

34:24

to eat was severely a.

34:26

Great. struggled. I.

34:29

Met this a really fantastic therapist

34:31

in New York and I really

34:33

credit her receiving my life. I

34:36

was on a downward spiral

34:38

this my eating disorder and.

34:41

Ah, Needed help. Having.

34:43

Been at the kinda B O button

34:45

said she'll and I really have a

34:47

son of a vendor seats out the

34:49

head of a psychologists because. Of.

34:52

My mistrust against.

34:55

Doctors. And psychiatrists in

34:57

general. So

34:59

it took me. To. My

35:01

late twenties. When I

35:03

finally was able to go to

35:06

therapy. I needed

35:08

somebody. To. Put help me put out

35:10

the fire. I was in crisis.

35:12

I needed to learn how to

35:14

be in this world. But.

35:17

I. Couldn't. Really go back

35:19

to the kinda be all but instead she

35:22

on. To me, it. It.

35:24

Would be incomprehensible for

35:26

anyone. And I would think.

35:29

There's. Nothing I can say. To.

35:32

Really? Illustrate the

35:34

horror of Laplace. Nothing.

35:36

Will convey. What?

35:38

Displaced it to me. In

35:42

the end, it just. Makes

35:44

you feel very vulnerable and exposed.

35:47

And. It's. Not

35:50

something you talk about because of

35:52

the deep shame it's associated with

35:54

it. Because. Regardless

35:56

of your circumstances, The.

35:59

Other person been. Assumptions about yield.

36:02

By. Virtue of just been in a

36:04

place like that and that. Also

36:07

ties in with future

36:09

relationships. Kinda. Person really

36:12

hold. That you have been

36:14

through something like that. Her

36:16

work, new friends, the therapy all helped.

36:19

She the began dating and in nineteen

36:21

ninety eight Eve he married a fellow

36:23

reporter and seen she was pregnant. And

36:26

was severely afraid. Of

36:29

that I am like my

36:31

biological mother and. I

36:34

want bond with my baby. And.

36:36

I never understood the how she could have

36:38

walked away. And. Others

36:40

very. Afraid. Though

36:43

the something wrong with me. I.

36:45

Went to New York to have my baby.

36:47

I was living in Washington Dc already. And.

36:51

Sting was performing in Central

36:53

Park. While. I was in

36:55

labor. And

36:59

it turned into kind of

37:01

an emergency c section. About

37:03

like twelve our labor. And.

37:07

Our son is born in

37:09

I'm lying there. With. My

37:11

arms stretched out because of the

37:13

C section. And. And

37:16

saw being and I can stop

37:18

solving and I'm as is crying

37:21

and in nurse. Comes.

37:23

Over and. Visit. Through.

37:27

says. Everything is a cave. is my baby

37:29

and. Sudanese

37:33

stood. I move my baby.

37:38

So that's the most amazing

37:40

memories of semi being boy.

37:45

Who was so wonderful? Someone's.

37:48

Love. So

37:55

like I guess when I think of. Falling

37:57

in love and I suspect it.

38:00

Yeah, he could.

38:06

Have like right there we the

38:08

a like oh my god will

38:11

have huge maven see you use

38:13

that he don't even realize how

38:15

afraid you are until and and

38:17

until he kind of like washes

38:19

away from yodel. Will

38:21

have Love with your capacity to love. Years

38:24

to feel that love that

38:26

everybody talks about. Did

38:29

you think like. Somehow.

38:31

You're broken because he didn't

38:33

experience that as a child.

38:38

Eighty children mean so well to

38:40

her. And Twenty twenty one in

38:42

that moment. When she started to search for

38:44

answers, discovered the truth behind the yellow House.

38:47

It was her children to assess the comfort. Her.

38:50

Even with now surrounded by what

38:52

she had never had family. as

38:54

well as another surprise addition. I.

38:58

Got this letter. Saying.

39:01

Somebody claiming to be my sister's

39:03

looking for me than a snake

39:05

cited and I said yes I

39:07

would like to have contact and

39:09

then Barbarella is her name. She's.

39:12

An artist and series. She call

39:14

it an era. Religious.

39:17

To be absolutely wonderful

39:19

person, lovely and warm

39:21

and kind. And she

39:23

was adopted in Switzerland.

39:26

And grew up to the couple of hours

39:28

from me. He. Decided to meet.

39:31

And I flew to Ciroc and

39:33

I still remember. Walking.

39:36

From the plane. To. The

39:38

kind of pick up area where she

39:40

was gonna come and see me and

39:42

I saw her through the glass. When

39:45

we put our hands. Against the

39:47

glass. And I felt

39:49

like my insides round fires they.

39:52

It was amazing to have a

39:54

blood relative for the first time

39:56

in my life. And. To

39:58

me and Andy Where there? They brought

40:01

champagne. And we set on

40:03

the floor. And we opened his some

40:05

tamed. We looked at each

40:07

other, we compared our faces and

40:09

our high to now body and

40:11

our hands and we hugged. Is

40:14

wonderful. Either Hilton

40:16

and her sister Barbarella all went with

40:18

her when she returned to Austria in

40:20

search of answers to the horrors of

40:22

her past. They found out that there

40:24

was an official commission looking into what

40:26

went on inside the Yellow House and

40:29

he be submitted a statement. One.

40:31

Day when I was checking my email. I.

40:34

See a note from a T.

40:36

Doily Aussie So it is a

40:38

letter, an official letter of apology

40:40

and he said what happened to

40:43

you should have never happen. I

40:45

can only promise to learn from your story.

40:50

Both another Sweden. These words I wanted

40:52

to printed out and carry it around

40:54

with me. It. Was

40:56

really important. It

40:58

felt. Like Devils.

41:00

An official recognition. What happened to

41:02

so many of us. That

41:05

it was really now considered.

41:08

Wrong. And. Unspeakable.

41:12

And not long ago. It.

41:14

Was considered completely acceptable.

41:18

He did eventually meet other victim

41:20

in me and he met three

41:22

of them yes for lunch. I

41:25

thought I mean I can't imagine how that must

41:27

have felt What. Was that like see if. It

41:31

was extraordinary. To. Meet

41:33

these three other women. have

41:35

also talked to two men

41:37

are online on who have

41:39

gone through this. And

41:42

on. These. Women were

41:44

really. Amazing and strong.

41:47

And. Have endured so much. And.

41:51

I was gonna say their life's were

41:53

broken by this. But. They're.

41:56

Also, incredibly. Courageous.

41:58

And strong. The have

42:00

suffered greatly. From in spoke.

42:03

And. It. Was just. Amazing

42:06

to compare memories. It's.

42:09

Validating in a sense to that.

42:12

Such. Yeah, that's right, it is

42:14

so hard. But. When it's

42:16

aspires says Mrs. Memories. I

42:19

see so hired by so hard

42:21

to overcome. The even

42:23

journey to face her part wasn't easy.

42:25

yet there was still the question of

42:27

her foster mother. as part

42:29

of your trip. Back into the post. And

42:32

the or three can visit to. Have

42:34

to his adult. He found out

42:37

about any your system other he found

42:39

out that she was still alive and

42:41

new organized to go and meet her.

42:45

That's quite the decision to make.

42:47

What why to t feel meeting?

42:49

have. Was. A good idea. That.

42:53

If you want some that. You

42:55

know I learned that she was still alive.

42:58

And. After learning everything

43:00

I did about the kinda

43:02

B o boston city own

43:04

and then confronting my history.

43:06

It felt. Like it

43:09

would be really important. For

43:11

me to confront her because.

43:14

She. Has played such an outsized

43:16

role in my life. I

43:18

have. Had. Nightmares

43:21

about her or her

43:23

house. My. Entire life.

43:26

When. He finally meet her. What?

43:29

D C. C. Surprisingly

43:32

friendly. Because.

43:34

I expected more than anything that have

43:36

an only see her for like ten

43:38

seconds and then I'd be thrown out.

43:41

That. Was really a surprise of

43:43

is ready to confront something

43:45

really. Scary. And.

43:48

Then he got an intersect. this old

43:50

lady sitting on the bed kind of

43:53

welcoming and and and happy to see

43:55

me and to meet my children. So

43:58

disorientating for you. What was?

44:01

Said what? What I stayed with is. How

44:04

I didn't challenge anything that she

44:06

said and one of the things

44:08

that she said a said we

44:10

both suffered and why did I

44:13

not say. Who did you?

44:15

Some money? To. Did you some from.

44:17

Know. I don't understand what she meant by that. If

44:20

you're angry. I. Guess are

44:22

so many things I feel angry

44:24

or to aside I feel determined.

44:27

When. She apologizes She's she's crying crying.

44:29

She pretty ah new, put your

44:31

hand on her to come for

44:33

her. Young. You.

44:35

Know. She. List of

44:37

full Life. She's. In her

44:39

nineties, she's in a nice home. I

44:42

feel. Like. I

44:44

solicited. The. Apology.

44:47

You. Know she didn't seem to.

44:50

To. Apologize to didn't initiate

44:52

any contacts to or.

44:54

Anything. I

44:57

don't wish her a. I

44:59

just I don't. For.

45:02

This child abusers. He.

45:05

Watching. Your children grow. Also

45:08

them a world away from

45:10

your experience. As an

45:12

infant and a kids, what was that

45:14

like? see? It

45:17

was extraordinary. It's. Fairly

45:19

the most incredible experience of my

45:21

life. Each one of them does

45:23

so your needs and to so

45:25

grateful. Sustain.

45:27

Such an incredible guest! And

45:30

to be able to create this

45:32

family and and billie community is

45:35

smooth. Has. Been beautiful.

45:38

It sounds. I mean, she's quite important to you and

45:40

your families. and I think you're am Your house is

45:42

quite famous in the neighborhood. Yeah,

45:45

allows the spammers in the neighborhood

45:47

forgot as a nickname I believe.

45:49

Professor for a full moon? Yeah.

45:52

Yeah my house like I was

45:54

like the house latinos has hung

45:56

out. I love cats and I

45:58

think a having. In an orphanage

46:00

came in quite handy if. I.

46:03

Have had your house gop nicknamed the

46:05

of the way would station oh yes

46:07

yes yes miss and kids because it

46:09

that stuff is that the I Met

46:11

you love that. Have enough that yeah.

46:14

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's. fine with me. He

46:18

did as he get back into

46:20

the Yellow House on your travels

46:22

in the last year's I did,

46:24

that is another extremely brave thing

46:26

to. Did you

46:28

ever think you'd walk inside the house again

46:30

And what did it feel like when needed?

46:32

Never. I was never

46:35

gonna come back to Austria. I

46:37

was never going to speak German again. and

46:40

as surely was never gonna go back

46:42

into the kinda be over to the

46:44

tune. So he

46:46

was incredible. It's. An

46:48

apartment building now, but from the

46:50

outside. Lindsay. Walked by

46:53

it. It stood up some

46:55

memory and you went inside and

46:57

need your children wait outside and

46:59

he went inside. The. Era of

47:01

end in sight. And years assists

47:03

Extraordinary cycling said the Belly

47:06

of the Beast. I didn't

47:08

see any apartments at the

47:10

inside. The staircase with soap

47:13

and of bird was before.

47:16

And. You. Know.

47:18

I'm. Feeling differently now than

47:21

I did. A year ago

47:23

or two years ago, it's like

47:25

it's really. Has. Changed kind

47:27

of how I feel about things. It's

47:29

it's kind of this. Whole process

47:31

of unearthing all this.

47:34

Feels like has really kind of changed me.

47:37

I. Sleep was. The Ma

47:39

constant. Over the place.

47:47

You he got hold. Of a finalist

47:49

and document and me and asked to

47:51

in the time when you antes in

47:53

Vienna, Hounds and. It's

47:56

from a pile. Of recklessness around that

47:58

time. And

48:00

a bottle of one of these

48:02

documents and special made an assessment.

48:06

And it said, a minor is

48:08

courageous enough to set itself in

48:10

life. That they pushed.

48:17

Us. Just the right

48:19

to your. So that. He.

48:23

Is so. Easy

48:44

mark and putting your voice to something

48:46

that you've kept quiet for so long

48:48

as an incredibly brave thing today. Nice,

48:51

he's thanks. To her sizing up if

48:53

he'd been affected by any as the

48:55

issues that we discussed in this appetite

48:57

and he can find information and support

48:59

at the friend is.org The last know

49:01

what you saw on today's my them

49:03

all any that you've had you can

49:06

email us at lifeless ordinary at Bbc

49:08

to Cater Uk and he keeps happening

49:10

as your what that voice messages take

49:12

the numbers in the say notes where

49:14

you and next week out there is

49:16

speaking to Lane Policy on a self

49:18

taught conflict mediator from a village in

49:21

a remote. Forested area in Colombia. He

49:23

spent much of his life striking

49:25

high stake deals with dangerous armed

49:27

groups and he knows how to

49:29

stay cool. Under pressure A.

49:31

Method. That is all for today. I

49:33

mean directed. The producer was at Can

49:36

Medical Sound Design with Sanjay Monday and

49:38

are editor was Rebecca Vincent's. Wesley

49:43

a Woman is the podcast celebrating the

49:45

fast as woman's. Wow, I'm pretty much

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and were. On a quest to find

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that fast life we're hearing from some

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