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per month. Floats Culture and that Mint mobile.com. Hi,

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I'm Sophia Smith-Gaylor. And I'm Sachi Kaul. And

1:24

we're the hosts of a brand new podcast

1:26

from the BBC World Service, Where to Be

1:29

a Woman. So what's

1:31

the podcast about, Sachi? We're

1:33

on a quest to find out where in the

1:35

world women are prospering, from their physical health to

1:37

their emotional fulfillment, all so that we can imagine

1:40

what a perfect place for women would look like.

1:42

Yeah, it's fair to say we're not

1:44

big fans of a lot of the

1:47

content marketed to us as a wellness,

1:49

so you won't catch us mushrooms stacking

1:51

or rainwater fasting. But we

1:53

are here to explore the lived experiences

1:55

of some incredible women around the world.

1:58

In each episode, we'll dig into it. an important topic

2:00

that affects all of our lives. And

2:03

we'll meet two women who explain how things

2:05

are going into very different countries that seem

2:07

to be getting something right. At the end,

2:10

Sophia and I will decide whether one of

2:12

these countries, or both, or neither, deserves

2:15

a spot in our female fantasy land.

2:17

Let's be a woman from the BBC

2:19

World Service. Listen now wherever

2:21

you get your BBC podcasts. You

2:25

need to keep a clear and happy face. And

2:27

that's in my nature. When

2:37

I look someone straight in the eyes, I laugh.

2:41

Also, my religion, Islam, asks

2:43

that of me. Mamadou

2:48

Barry is a good-natured guy. He's the sort

2:51

of person you'd want to help out, and

2:53

that's pretty lucky, because he recently

2:55

went on the sort of wild,

2:57

cross-continental journey where you'd need all

2:59

the help you can get. His

3:01

story has gotten loads of attention, international

3:04

media, and even the Hollywood

3:06

star Will Smith has got

3:08

involved. But before

3:10

all of that, he was just a

3:13

guy by himself cycling across Africa on

3:15

an ancient bike with no money, no

3:17

map, and a lot of self-belief. It

3:32

all starts in West Africa, in Mamadou's

3:34

home country of Guinea. Mamadou

3:36

was dreaming of places further

3:38

afield. When

3:51

Mamadou Barry was a boy growing up

3:53

in Guinea, he heard a lot about

3:55

Al Azar, perhaps the most prestigious Islamic

3:58

university in the world. When

4:00

I was little, my mother always told me

4:02

that she wanted one of

4:04

her children to become an

4:11

Islamic scholar. It pushed

4:13

me to memorize the Quran in 2016. You

4:16

want to make your parents happy, you know? That

4:19

was the first time I heard about Al-Azhar

4:21

from a teacher in Senegal where I'd gone

4:23

to study the Quran. That

4:26

teacher had gone to Al-Azhar and he was the

4:28

first person to tell me about the university. What

4:34

did you hear about it? Because I

4:36

remember being at Al-Azhar, I visited, I was

4:38

there a few years ago, I know there's

4:40

those huge gates and it brings

4:43

with it a kind of legendary

4:46

status. It has a reputation

4:48

throughout Africa, throughout the

4:51

Muslim world. What did you know about

4:53

Al-Azhar? I

4:57

heard that Al-Azhar taught really good

4:59

courses even though they can be

5:01

difficult. And it wasn't just my

5:03

teacher in Senegal. Back in

5:05

Guinea, many of Islamic scholars

5:07

had been to Al-Azhar. Some

5:10

of them talked about it in videos

5:12

online, so I watched a lot of

5:14

those. At

5:19

24, Mamadou decided he didn't want

5:21

Al-Azhar to be a place he

5:23

just dreamt about. He wanted

5:25

to see it with his own eyes and more

5:27

than that, he wanted to be a student

5:29

there. But there was a problem.

5:32

Mamadou was in Guinea on the

5:34

west coast of Africa. Al-Azhar

5:36

is in Egypt, the northeast corner

5:38

of the continent. Without

5:41

deep pockets, getting there was

5:43

not going to be easy. The

5:48

idea of Al-Azhar was growing in my head,

5:50

so I started to look for the money

5:53

to buy a plane ticket. I

5:55

was working as a motorbike taxi driver in Guinea.

5:57

It's a job that a lot of young people

5:59

do. people do, but I couldn't

6:01

save enough money. Then, my motorbike

6:04

was stolen. So I abandoned

6:06

that activity and opened a shop in my

6:09

neighborhood. After seven months,

6:11

I still didn't have enough money for a

6:13

ticket. And I just thought, no,

6:17

you have to live now. If you stay here,

6:19

the years will pass. You will never get the

6:21

chance to go. He

6:25

could have just given up on the idea. Instead,

6:27

Mamadou took a chance. He

6:30

got inventive and started a journey

6:32

that you could think of as a long

6:34

shot. And I mean, a really

6:36

long shot. That's when I came

6:39

up with the solution. Why not take a bicycle? There is no fuel. You

6:47

just use your own strength, your energy. Yes,

6:49

it will be hard, but you can do

6:51

it. I decided

6:55

to take a bicycle and head to

6:57

Al-Azhar. I had to try it. The

7:05

result was an epic continent

7:07

crossing trip to eight countries

7:09

over four months. If

7:11

you're wondering why this was so

7:19

important to Mamadou, you should know what had

7:21

been going on in his life. My

7:26

life in Guinea was quite normal. I'm married

7:29

and we live under the wider family

7:31

of my father. It's

7:33

a very big family. So we lived

7:35

there. And before I started working,

7:38

I was starting at secondary

7:40

school for my final year exams,

7:42

the baccalaurea exam. And

7:46

that is where Mamadou got a

7:48

bit stuck. For the baccalaurea exam, I

7:51

was very confident. I

7:55

told myself that I was taking good classes

7:57

and I was doing well. I

8:00

went to school every day. Sometimes I

8:02

would even give revision lessons to my

8:04

friends or younger brothers. I

8:06

was confident about the exam, very confident.

8:08

I'm very confident.

8:12

Your family around you, your father, were

8:14

they all confident that you'd pass? Yes.

8:19

The first time, yes. My

8:21

school career up to then had been quite

8:23

good, but everything changed for me

8:26

during the exam. That's when I started

8:28

to struggle. My parents wondered

8:30

why I failed the exam. They

8:32

even considered some sort of corruption in

8:34

the Guinean state. They

8:37

said, it's not fair. You

8:39

can't be the one helping your friends to

8:41

revise. Then your friends get their diploma, and

8:43

you don't. It's impossible. So

8:47

when you got your results the first time

8:49

around, you must have been quite disappointed. You

8:51

must have been quite shocked. Yes,

8:55

I was relatively disappointed and

8:57

surprised, but I saw

8:59

that some friends and other people didn't pass

9:01

either. So I wasn't devastated.

9:04

It was just my first attempt, after all.

9:07

People encouraged me to try again.

9:10

So would that take a whole year

9:12

before you could reset the exam? Yep.

9:16

Actually, after I failed my first attempt,

9:19

I decided to change schools. So

9:22

I started for the whole year. I

9:24

set the exam again in 2018 and didn't pass. There

9:29

was failure again for a second year. Yes,

9:33

for the second consecutive

9:35

year, that one hurt me.

9:38

I had been giving revision lessons to my friends,

9:41

eight of them. They all got their

9:43

diploma except for me, the one giving

9:45

them revision lessons. I was

9:47

very hurt. I'd spent almost all

9:49

my evenings at school. I'd be

9:51

starting with my friends. I would come home late

9:53

at 10 p.m. That year, I was

9:56

devastated. I

10:00

imagine there was quite a bit of pressure. If

10:02

I think about exams when I was younger, one

10:04

of the main things I was worried about

10:07

was my parents and sharing

10:09

the news with my peers,

10:11

with my parents, going home, having

10:13

that conversation. It must've been quite

10:15

a stressful time for you. How

10:17

did your family react? It

10:20

was very difficult. I'll admit that it

10:22

was very difficult. In

10:24

Guinea, you have to pay school fees.

10:27

Your parents struggle to raise their money every

10:29

month to pay. You are

10:31

aware of the sacrifices they make. I

10:34

didn't know how to tell my father that I

10:36

had failed my baccalaureate exam again. It

10:38

was a very difficult time. I sat

10:40

alone with my thoughts for almost three hours before

10:42

daring to go speak to him. It's

10:47

really, really stressful. How long did

10:49

you go through this process? I know you decided

10:52

you were gonna try for a

10:54

third time. So that would be another

10:56

year before you'd sit the exam. How

10:58

many years did you go through that process? I

11:01

tried five times. Five

11:07

times I set the exam. After 2017,

11:09

I changed schools. In

11:11

2018, 2019, I tried with a new school. On

11:16

the fourth and fifth attempts, I set

11:18

the exam directly at the local education

11:20

authority. I also failed. I

11:23

tried five times. Enough

11:26

was enough. There

11:29

would be no sixth attempt at the

11:31

baccalaureate. Mamadou set his sights

11:33

on a different type of education. He

11:36

hadn't even gone through the formal application

11:38

process to study at Al Azar University,

11:41

but he knew what he wanted. And

11:44

so Mamadou set off on his

11:46

bicycle towards Egypt. I

11:58

love this optimism. of just

12:00

getting on a bike. It sounds like

12:03

a great idea. Until you consider the

12:05

geography. So for anyone

12:07

that isn't familiar, tell me how

12:09

far Guinea and where you were

12:11

living. How far is that from

12:14

Egypt and Al Aziz? Where

12:16

is the next mill kilometres? Yeah, it's

12:18

about 9,000 kilometres. Yes,

12:21

it's not a bike ride to the

12:24

end of the road. And also going through

12:26

multiple countries, including places

12:28

where there is

12:31

violence and conflict. Did

12:33

none of that put you off? It didn't put

12:35

me off at all. I

12:39

was always following the news. I

12:41

watched France 24 a lot. So I

12:43

knew everything that was going on in Mali,

12:45

Niger and Burkina Faso. I

12:48

was aware of all that. I

12:50

had started the road. I planned

12:52

to avoid countries near the equator where

12:54

it rains a lot. Or countries with

12:56

a lot of mountains. That's why I

12:58

went through Mali and other countries with

13:00

little rain or mountains. I

13:02

knew about the potential difficulties on the road, but I

13:05

never hesitated. How did you spend a lot of time riding a bike

13:07

before? Had

13:11

you done cross country, for example? No,

13:14

no, no, I hadn't done anything

13:16

like this before. Did

13:19

you do that? Well, actually,

13:21

that's not quite true.

13:25

In 2016, I took the bike

13:27

to go to Senegal. I

13:30

didn't go all the way to Dakar. I only

13:32

made it to the border where I sold my

13:34

bike and carried on by bus. But

13:36

it wasn't that far. It

13:38

only took me 10 days by bike. So

13:41

you had a bit of experience. I

13:44

understand that. Maybe that gave you

13:46

the confidence. I want to know,

13:48

how does one prepare for

13:52

a 9,000 kilometer cross-continent

13:54

bike ride? I mean, give

13:58

me the practicalities. What did you pack? With

14:00

me, it was quite simple. I

14:05

didn't have much. I took 35,000 CIFA

14:08

francs and put them in my pocket. I

14:11

think that's around 55 US

14:13

dollars. I had one change

14:15

of clothes that I put in a plastic bag

14:17

and tied it to the bike. I

14:20

also tied a water container to the

14:22

bike and I

14:25

took some tools for bike maintenance in case

14:27

it broke so that I could fix it

14:29

myself. I didn't take

14:31

much, almost nothing. I

14:33

didn't want to load myself with baggage and

14:36

tie myself out on the road. When

14:40

you were leaving Guinea, when you were making

14:42

this plan, some people might think

14:45

they're going to rely on their GPS on their

14:47

phone. I know that wasn't an option for

14:49

you. How did you

14:51

work out the route you were going to take? I

14:54

drew a map and it was very well

14:57

designed. Everything

15:01

was on it. You know, most

15:03

roads have signs with the next town

15:06

and the distance written on it. So

15:08

I didn't draw the exact map of Africa

15:10

as such, but it was an itinerary with

15:12

a series of dots. There

15:15

was a dot for Conakry, my starting point.

15:17

The next dot was kindia. The road

15:20

from Conakry to kindia is a single

15:22

road. Every time the road

15:24

forks, I would ride down a

15:26

direction with a narrow right or

15:28

left. So I knew where

15:30

the big towns were as well as the

15:32

names of the road. I'd

15:34

written everything down. What

15:38

did your family think of what you were doing? Did

15:40

you tell them? No, no.

15:43

I didn't tell my family that

15:45

I was going to Egypt on

15:47

a bike. I

15:50

told my younger brothers but asked them not

15:52

to tell anyone. I

15:54

was reluctant to tell my parents. If

15:57

I had told them that I was riding a bike to

15:59

Egypt... They might have said

16:01

that I was being stupid, that it

16:03

was impossible. And if they had

16:05

refused, I wouldn't have been able to go against

16:07

their wishes. So I had

16:09

to move first. I decided

16:12

that once I'd left, I'd call

16:14

them to inform them. That's what

16:16

I did. Once I got to

16:18

Benin, I called them to explain

16:20

the story. So

16:23

just to clarify, where did they actually think you

16:25

were going? Did they know where you were? When

16:32

they noticed my absence, my younger brothers

16:34

told them about my bike trip. But

16:37

they didn't have a way to call me. I

16:40

had left my phone. They

16:42

probably found out about my trip before I

16:44

had even left Guinea. Within

16:46

a day, when they didn't see me,

16:49

they would have asked where I was because I was

16:51

always with them. What

16:54

about your wife? And I know you've got

16:56

a very young child. Did

16:59

you feel a bit sad saying

17:01

goodbye to them? I

17:05

always thought about them. I

17:07

was very sad to leave my wife

17:09

and daughter behind. But

17:11

I didn't tell my wife that I was going

17:14

to travel by bike because she would have worried.

17:17

I only told her that I was going away to

17:19

deepen my Islamic studies. No

17:21

one knew that I was going to travel

17:23

by bike, except my younger brothers. You

17:28

said you left with about $55, which across the days

17:30

and weeks that

17:35

it's going to take to

17:37

get on a bike and travel 9,000 kilometres,

17:40

is not going to last a long time. So

17:43

what are the practicalities

17:45

of eating, of sleeping, of taking

17:47

care of yourself? I

17:50

knew that it was a very small

17:52

amount of money for such a trip,

17:58

but I had no other option. that's

18:00

all I had. For

18:03

food I thought, inshallah,

18:05

God willing it will

18:07

be fine. I'm doing

18:09

this for God, He won't abandon me. That

18:11

was my main thought that I was with

18:13

God that He wouldn't abandon me and He

18:15

didn't. Sometimes I'd buy

18:18

some bread, sometimes I'd pick

18:20

low-cost beans in the bush where there

18:22

were lots growing about. I'd

18:25

pick mangoes too but I used

18:27

up the money very quickly. It

18:29

was difficult. I would

18:34

sleep in the bush. I

18:36

was reluctant to sleep in towns because in

18:38

towns you find thieves and bad people. I

18:41

felt safer in the bush. All you have to

18:43

worry about in the bush is the animals. I

18:45

thought God will help me. I'm on

18:47

God's path, He won't abandon me. It

18:50

sounds quite scary. Yes,

18:53

it does. But I wasn't scared. I

18:55

didn't even have a mat to sleep

18:57

on. I just put the bike on

19:05

the ground and lie down fully dressed with

19:07

my head on the bike so that no

19:09

one could steal it without me waking up.

19:12

Sometimes I was scared of people but

19:14

in the bush I wasn't scared. As

19:28

you travelled through kilometre

19:31

after kilometre, counter-town, city to

19:33

city and country to country

19:36

across borders, did you get

19:38

a sense of the different

19:40

personalities, the different cultures? When

19:43

I crossed from Guinea into Mali,

19:45

I saw that maybe there wouldn't be that

19:47

much difference, that

19:55

the culture would be quite similar. We

19:57

are basically related but the The

20:00

further away I went from Guinea, the

20:02

more I felt the changes. As

20:04

soon as you see a new town

20:06

or city, you see the people, the

20:08

way they dress, you sense that you're

20:10

not in your country anymore. That's

20:13

how I realized that Mali was actually totally

20:15

different from Guinea. The people are different. How

20:21

they act, how they live,

20:24

then Burkina Faso was also

20:26

different from Mali. What

20:29

I noticed in Mali is that

20:32

people are really scared. They don't

20:34

like foreigners at the moment

20:36

anyway. In Burkina Faso, I

20:38

was also afraid because the terrorism

20:40

problem has put people on edge.

20:44

Then you get to Togo and you also

20:46

feel the difference. The

20:59

thing is, almost all the

21:02

countries on Mamadou's roots are

21:04

experiencing jihadist insurgencies. State

21:06

armies have been pushing back for years and

21:09

both soldiers and sometimes civilians are

21:11

the targets of attacks. The

21:14

territory can be hostile, especially

21:16

perhaps for a man trying to make it

21:18

through on his bike. The

21:20

majority of people who live in these

21:23

areas are Muslim. But in Togo, Mamadou

21:25

found that outsiders, even those with a

21:27

shared faith, could be treated with

21:30

suspicion. It happened

21:32

on a Saturday. I

21:37

had just spent the night in a mosque. At

21:39

the mosque, they gave me 15,000 CFA

21:42

francs to help me. Now that

21:44

I had some money, I went

21:46

to the station to buy a train ticket to the

21:48

capital Lome. From there, I

21:51

was going to continue towards Benin. I

21:53

bought a ticket and I was told to wait for

21:55

other passengers. So in the

21:57

meantime, I went to have a coffee. I

22:00

finished my cup and decided to read

22:02

the Quran. After a few pages,

22:04

I realized that people were staring

22:06

at me. So I closed the

22:08

book and kept waiting. That's

22:17

when I saw two police officers arriving

22:19

on motorbikes. I knew they had come

22:21

for me. They asked, Are

22:24

you the one reading the Quran? I said, yes.

22:27

They put me in handcuffs immediately. And

22:30

I was taken to the police station. I

22:32

was interrogated. They took my passport.

22:35

They asked me to read the Quran again, which

22:37

I did. Then they took

22:40

off the handcuffs and kept me there

22:42

for nine days. I was jailed

22:44

for nine days for no reason. Why

22:50

was it controversial? Why did it spark attention for

22:52

you to be reading the Quran in Togo? Was

22:54

it because you were reading the Quran or was

22:56

it also because you were a stranger? No.

23:01

It was because you were a stranger.

23:04

Not only was I a foreigner, I was

23:07

reading the Quran. Terrorists

23:09

claim that they are Muslim and

23:11

that they defend the Quran. On

23:14

top of that, in countries like

23:16

Burkina Faso, Mali or Togo, Fulani

23:19

people are accused of being terrorists. And

23:22

I am Fulani. What

23:24

was your criteria? I fit

23:26

all the criteria. I was

23:28

a foreigner reading the Quran and I

23:30

was Fulani. I think that's

23:33

why they took me for a terrorist. That must

23:35

have been really upsetting and dehumanizing. When

23:43

you were in prison for

23:45

nine days when you were locked up, did you

23:47

have any idea of when

23:49

you'd be released, what you'd be charged with,

23:51

what would happen to you? I

23:54

didn't know what they wanted. I

24:00

wanted to do with me, but I wasn't

24:02

too worried. I didn't doubt

24:04

that they would release me eventually. I wasn't

24:06

afraid of them. In

24:08

Guinea, we always say, if

24:13

you haven't done anything wrong, you shouldn't be

24:15

afraid. So,

24:18

I wasn't. I

24:20

knew they'd released me. I didn't even

24:22

let it get me down. Every

24:25

day, I was happy. I spoke

24:27

with the officers because I wanted to learn about Togo. I

24:30

was never discouraged. I was

24:32

not afraid of my mother. I was afraid of

24:34

my mother. You

25:00

are as a person? Is that just

25:02

your personality? That's

25:08

just my nature. It's the way I am.

25:11

When I look someone's straight in the

25:13

eyes, I laugh. Also,

25:16

my religion, Islam, asks that of me.

25:21

You need to keep a clear and happy face.

25:24

And that's in my nature. He

25:30

had more tests of that good nature

25:32

to come. After nine

25:34

days in custody, the police in

25:37

Togo released Mamadou without charge. He

25:39

got his bike and his clothes and the

25:41

little money he had, but there was

25:43

one thing missing. They

25:47

gave me everything back, except the

25:49

map where I drew my itinerary.

25:52

I only realized they had kept it after

25:54

I had left Togo. Otherwise, I

25:56

would have asked for it. You

26:07

might think Mamadou would have given up,

26:09

turned back or panicked. If

26:12

you're on this journey and it's

26:14

already scary because it's

26:16

an unconventional route, it's an

26:18

unconventional method and

26:20

your plan is very loose and

26:23

you're relying on this map that you've

26:25

drawn out yourself with the names of

26:27

places and if that map

26:29

is then taken away from you by the police,

26:32

that must be really frightening. It

26:39

didn't frighten me. All the

26:41

places that already travelled through weren't a problem. That

26:44

was in the past. I had to focus

26:46

on the way ahead. I could still remember

26:48

a lot of the names on the map, so

26:50

I wrote them down again and

26:53

I would ask people for directions every

26:55

time I'd get into a town. Mamadou

27:00

continued into Benin, then Niger

27:03

and Chad. By the

27:05

time he got there, he'd been on the road for

27:07

three months. Not bad for someone

27:09

who started out with $55 and a

27:11

vague plan of how to get to

27:13

Egypt. Whilst he did have

27:15

trouble on the road, he also experienced kindness.

27:19

Although Mamadou sensed some of those helping

27:21

him, didn't quite believe he was

27:23

riding a bike across Africa to

27:26

a university that he hadn't even applied

27:28

to. On

27:34

the road, a lot of people helped me with

27:36

their advice. Sometimes people would

27:38

give me food. The first person

27:40

to help me was in Mali. He

27:43

was actually the only person I spoke to while I

27:45

was in Mali. I told him

27:47

my story. He didn't believe me, but

27:50

he gave me food anyway. In

27:54

Burkina Faso, one day, I was praying

27:56

at the mosque in the capital city. I was very

27:58

dirty. and people were

28:00

staring at me. A man asked

28:03

me about my story. He gave

28:05

me some useful advice and also some

28:07

money. Some people take an interest in

28:09

you. Also, in Burkina Faso,

28:12

I was stopped by police officers who asked

28:14

to see my papers. One

28:16

of them actually gave me a thousand

28:18

CFA francs. I want to highlight the

28:21

imams who

28:25

let me spend the night at the mosque and

28:27

gave me 15,000 CFA francs. All

28:31

these people didn't believe my story 100%. I

28:34

could feel it, but I didn't

28:37

insist. In Benin, two

28:39

people let me stay in their houses. And

28:42

in Niger, I met an elderly

28:44

Guinean man in Yame, the capital, who

28:46

let me spend two nights with him.

28:51

The biggest dose of human kindness came

28:54

in Chad, but once again, Mameti thought

28:56

he'd hit a wall. There

29:01

was a Guinean woman who gave me

29:03

shelter in her house with her younger

29:06

brother. That was really good. I

29:08

stayed there for a while. At

29:11

the restaurant of this Guinean lady, I met

29:13

three young people from Sierra Leone. They

29:16

were the ones who told me that it was

29:18

impossible to cross Sudan, that there

29:20

was a war there and that the

29:22

road was unsafe. I didn't

29:25

really believe it and really wanted to

29:27

find a solution to continue. This

29:32

was in the middle of 2023. Conflict

29:34

broke out across Sudan as

29:37

rival factions of the armed forces turned

29:39

on each other and fought for control.

29:42

It's not exactly the kind of place you'd

29:44

cycle across, but Mameti still

29:46

wanted to get to Egypt. So he

29:49

stayed in Chad and worked out his

29:51

next move. Then

29:54

one of the guys from Sierra Leone started

29:57

telling people that he was not a the

30:00

mosque about my story. He said,

30:02

I know this guy who's come from Guinea on

30:04

a bike and he wants to go to Egypt.

30:07

People were surprised. Then

30:09

one day there was a journalist there.

30:12

He said he wanted to interview me. He

30:15

came to see me and asked me if I

30:17

would talk about my trip and ask for some

30:19

of his questions. At first

30:21

I refused. I explained that I

30:23

hadn't done all this to draw attention to myself.

30:26

Everything I had done, the whole trip,

30:29

was for God. But he

30:31

said that my story could inspire a lot

30:33

of people that it was special. He said

30:35

that while my brothers were dying in the

30:37

Mediterranean, this story could

30:39

inspire hope. So I

30:41

accepted. But I told him that

30:43

after the interview, I would continue on

30:46

my journey. We finished the interview

30:48

and he said, young man, you must stay put. People might

30:50

want to

30:54

talk to you as I've published the article. Maybe

30:57

someone will want to help you. So

30:59

I said, OK, I'll stay

31:01

one more week. During that week, people started

31:03

calling me. Did you

31:11

become a kind of legend after this

31:13

article came out? Because people must have

31:15

been quite amazed at

31:17

what you'd already achieved by that

31:19

point. You'd already cycled through many,

31:22

many different countries. So the

31:25

idea of people being fascinated by

31:27

what you'd done, how did you

31:29

process that and how did you

31:31

feel about it? It took me by

31:33

surprise. I didn't have a

31:35

smartphone, so I couldn't read or watch anything

31:38

that was being published. But

31:40

one day, four people were eating at

31:42

the same restaurant who spotted me. Called

31:44

me over and said, you know,

31:47

I had one from Tiktok who's traveled on a

31:49

bike. I said, no, it's not me because I

31:54

didn't know that the journalists had posted it. I

31:56

felt a bit overwhelmed. I

31:59

called the journalists to ask why people were claiming

32:01

to have seen me on social media. And

32:03

he laughed and confirmed that he

32:05

had posted the story and that now

32:07

everybody was talking about me. From

32:10

that moment on, everything just

32:12

started moving so fast. I

32:15

had unforeseen everything that happened afterwards.

32:23

In fact, no one could have

32:25

foreseen everything that happened afterwards. When

32:28

his story went viral, things

32:30

really shifted. A

32:34

Guinean man living in France shared the

32:36

video online and asked for

32:39

donations. Then he bought me

32:41

a plane ticket that allowed me to travel to

32:43

Egypt. What

32:46

was it like boarding that plane? It

32:54

was a sweet, sweet feeling. I

32:58

felt joy. Me,

33:01

who had started on a bike, I witnessed

33:03

how the bike transformed into a plane. I

33:07

was very happy. I was so excited that

33:09

I nearly forgot to take my passport with me to the airport.

33:13

And when I was on the plane,

33:15

I reflected on things and

33:18

thought, this is what God said. When

33:21

you go to the airport, you

33:23

will be able to see the plane. This

33:25

is what God said. When you

33:28

go out of your way for him, he will see

33:30

that and help you. I

33:32

saw God had eased my path from

33:34

a bike to a plane. Now

33:43

Mamadou was truly on his way.

33:52

In a few hours, he'd be on Egyptian

33:54

soil. Then he'd make it

33:56

to the doors of Al-Azhar. But

33:58

that now seemed easy and complicated. comparison to

34:00

how far he traveled. The

34:04

problem was that Mamadou knew very little

34:07

about what he'd need to do to

34:09

secure a place. My

34:13

goal was to come here and study, but

34:15

I didn't know anybody in Egypt. My

34:18

plan was to arrive, register

34:20

with the local authority, and then

34:22

look for a small job. Well,

34:26

of course you didn't have a guaranteed

34:29

place at Al Azar. That

34:31

was all still up in the air. When

34:33

you finally saw Al Azar

34:35

University and walked in, how

34:37

did that work? Do you fill in an application

34:39

form? Did you tell them your story? How did

34:42

you make the approach? When

34:46

I arrived in Egypt, staff from the

34:48

Guinea and embassy were waiting for me at the

34:50

airport. They had heard my story.

34:53

We were following the normal procedure

34:55

for enrollment. But then

34:58

an Egyptian journalist called me. He said he

35:00

had spent a long time trying to find

35:02

my number and asked if he could interview

35:04

me. I said, no problem.

35:08

Three days later, he published the story.

35:12

As soon as he did, an advisor

35:14

to the Sheikh of Al Azar called me

35:16

and said she wanted me to meet Dr.

35:18

Nahla. That's

35:22

Dr. Nahla El-Saidi, the

35:24

Dean of Islamic Studies at Al

35:26

Azar University. That's

35:31

when things changed. She told me that

35:33

they were going to offer me a scholarship, that

35:35

I didn't have to worry anymore and that

35:38

they would provide me with accommodation. I

35:44

quickly realized that after all, I had

35:46

succeeded. Things were going to

35:49

be easier. All I have to do now is

35:51

the thing I came for, to

35:54

study. I don't

35:56

need anything else. I'm

35:58

very, very happy. Now,

36:01

I will try to bring my wife and

36:03

my daughter over so we can live together

36:06

and they can enjoy Egypt as well. And

36:08

maybe study too. But

36:12

tell me about that. When you got

36:14

the scholarship, you

36:16

must have shared that news with your wife,

36:19

you must have shared that news with your

36:21

father as well. How did they respond? My

36:28

parents were already happy, even before Egypt,

36:30

from when I was in charge because

36:32

everybody was talking about their son. A

36:36

lot of Guineans called my parents

36:38

to say, you have such a

36:40

good child, we need more children

36:42

like that. So

36:44

my parents were very happy already. When

36:47

I reached Egypt and they learned

36:49

that I received the scholarship, they were amazed.

36:55

It was complete joy in the family.

36:58

Every time my father calls me, he

37:00

tells me how more people have been

37:02

congratulating him and me. Everybody's

37:05

happy. My wife is also happy. We

37:08

speak every day. She's happy, but

37:10

she'd like to come here and she

37:13

will. God willing, she will come. I'm

37:18

really pleased for you. Are you at al-Azad

37:20

right now as we speak? Yes,

37:23

I'm on campus. They have given me a

37:25

room here. I live on campus. So

37:29

I'm interested in the plan now. Are you

37:31

studying? What is the course? How long will

37:33

it take? I

37:38

need to learn Arabic first. That's the

37:40

most important thing. After I pass the

37:43

Arabic test, I can start

37:45

properly at the university. But

37:47

it will depend on my level. And

37:49

I probably still have to get my baccalaureate.

37:52

If I succeed in all this, I'll

37:55

study here for a minimum of eight years to

37:57

get a doctorate in Quranic studies. which

38:00

covers things like translation, ways to

38:02

read the Quran, where the verses

38:04

come from, everything

38:11

Quran related, that's what I

38:13

want to study. To be a doctor in that, you

38:16

need a minimum of eight years. Do you think

38:18

you still have time to ride your bike? Yes,

38:23

I will find time. After all, it's my story

38:25

and it is now a part of me.

38:36

Every time people see me, they will

38:38

remember the bike. So I won't stop

38:40

riding one, not every

38:42

day, but once in a while. After

38:45

all, it's also a sport. Have

38:49

you still got the bike with you? Is it still in your possession?

38:55

No, no, I left the

38:57

bike in Chad. People told me to leave

38:59

the bike over there, that it wasn't practical

39:02

to bring it, that Egypt was too far.

39:05

But now I want to be reunited

39:07

with the bike. Maybe we will put it

39:09

in a museum. The bike is important

39:11

to me. I want it here with

39:13

me. Where

39:17

you are right now and with everything you've achieved,

39:20

even given all

39:22

the difficulty you had, with

39:24

education, are you proud of

39:26

yourself? Today,

39:32

I am more than proud of myself.

39:35

I've gone from being this obedient

39:37

child, trying to be good

39:39

and obedient to his parents, to a man

39:42

that people want to know and meet with

39:44

a bit of fame. I'm

39:46

proud. I never thought

39:48

that I would get all this. I'm

39:54

not saying that I've succeeded. That's not what

39:56

I mean. But maybe the dose of success

39:59

are finally opening for me.

40:02

If I continue like this, maybe

40:04

I can enjoy life. I

40:06

am happy for myself, but I'm

40:08

actually prouder of my parents than of myself.

40:11

My parents made me what I

40:13

am, so I thank them, and

40:16

my wife also. Mamadou

40:20

still had a long road ahead and a lot

40:23

of work to do. As you

40:25

can imagine, he's taking in his stride.

40:28

In fact, he's got a new idea in

40:30

the pipeline. You

40:33

know, I've answered all your questions, but deep

40:35

down, I know it's not the whole story.

40:38

I can't explain everything here. It's

40:40

impossible to explain in two hours

40:42

something that happened to me over

40:44

four months. So I'm thinking

40:47

of writing a book so that people

40:49

understand better. And I welcome any advice

40:51

because I have no experience in writing

40:53

or publishing, but I'd like to try.

41:00

I think that's a really good idea. I think that's a

41:02

brilliant idea. Have you thought about what the title might

41:04

be? I don't know, maybe A Long Journey or My

41:06

Life on a Bike. I

41:13

really like My Life on a Bike. It's so nice to speak to

41:15

you. Thank you for taking the time. And

41:23

I just wanted to share a personal

41:25

thing. So I studied for

41:27

one year. I did a master's degree in

41:29

Islamic studies. And so for you to be

41:32

doing it for eight years, it's a big

41:34

task. So good luck. Thank

41:39

you. Good luck. JazakAllah. Thank you

41:41

so much. Thank you. That's Mamadou

41:43

Barry speaking to me from Egypt

41:45

just after he'd started studying at Al

41:47

Azar. We've got a couple of updates since

41:49

we last spoke to him. He tells us

41:52

he can now speak to people in Arabic.

41:54

He also got a surprise call from the

41:57

Hollywood star Will Smith. Will heard

41:59

about Mamadou. when the BBC first

42:01

spoke to him and he dropped him a

42:03

video call to congratulate him on his journey.

42:05

After the

42:08

call, Will gave Mamadou

42:11

a new laptop and a new

42:13

bike. That's

42:44

all from this episode of Live

42:46

Sless Ordinary. I'm Mabin Azar. The

42:48

producer was Rob Wilson and the

42:50

editor was Manazak Khan. Thanks for

42:52

listening. It

43:01

all started with me asking my friends

43:04

and family to write letters to my

43:06

daughter Coco, sharing their experiences and giving

43:08

her advice for her life ahead. The

43:10

idea blossomed into dear daughter from

43:13

the BBC World Service. A podcast

43:15

where, with the help of your letters,

43:17

I'm creating a hand of to life

43:19

full of advice for daughters everywhere. Listen

43:22

now by searching for dear daughter

43:25

wherever you get your BBC podcast.