0:02

Radio

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Radio, Radio

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Commies, a Myth and Bullshit, a

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radio phonic novella Local Radio

0:18

hosted by Malamo. Hello,

0:22

welcome back to local radio. This

0:24

is the FM and this is Malamos.

0:27

Thank you for tuning in once again to Brown Girl

0:29

Our Yes, local radio

0:31

is where we celebrate the brilliance and legacies

0:34

of women and fems of color. Thanks

0:36

so much for tuning in yet again. This is

0:41

Yeah,

0:43

it's a big deal. It's a big deal. The

0:46

name of this is Cheese

0:50

and we have a really special guest which

0:52

will be introducing in a little bit. We're

0:54

so excited. We're so excited, especially

0:56

because I don't know, I'm sure some

0:58

of you have noticed that

1:01

we probably we haven't released

1:03

an episode in about a month now. We

1:06

have had a journey.

1:08

All of everything the universe hasn't working

1:11

against us. Sound

1:14

studio, things retrograded

1:17

now, you know, in processes.

1:21

Yes, so thank you so much

1:23

for being patient for tuning in. That'll

1:25

tell you more about it, tell you more about the journey

1:28

to get here. A mini milestone for

1:30

us. And we have some other milestones

1:32

that we've experienced recently,

1:34

some really exciting announcements. Yes,

1:37

so recently

1:40

we were asked to be a part of a

1:42

Facebook Live series with remesqu

1:45

La. So they had a storytelling

1:48

um Facebook Life series and they

1:50

asked to be a part of it, and Mama

1:53

represented us. So do you want to talk a little

1:55

bit about the video experience.

1:58

It was so much fun. So LIKESCLA

2:01

and the Philadelphia Latino

2:04

Film Festival and

2:06

UM Latino Victory. They

2:08

came together to put together like a series

2:10

of talks and this was

2:12

the final installment of their Facebook

2:15

Live talks and it was all about like storytelling

2:17

as resistance and as a tool for organizing.

2:21

So it was really fun and I

2:23

skyped in and we talked about storytelling

2:25

as resistance. So shout out to Rasa

2:28

and to the Philadelphia Film Festival, UM,

2:30

to Latino Victory, to Andrea

2:33

and everybody who was a part of it. It was really fun. It

2:35

was cool. Yeah. Yeah, and I

2:37

wasn't able to be a part of it because I had a

2:40

meeting for my day job

2:42

that I could not miss. And what I like,

2:44

shout out to Mama because she really represented

2:46

the both of us. She included me in the dialogue.

2:48

We were able to go over the questions beforehand,

2:50

and she made sure that my voice was still

2:52

heard, So shout out to you. That was

2:55

really amazing. I tried, girl.

2:58

And then because of that, there was

3:00

actually a write up feature

3:03

article on Glass. So shout out

3:05

to Yarra Simon for that, for writing

3:08

it, for writing it. Yeah, so it's

3:10

around. It's on clans on

3:12

Facebook, our Instagram,

3:15

you know, so if you want to check that out, it's available.

3:17

Yes. And then and then we had

3:20

a feature in Latina Mag online.

3:22

Our friend Raquel, Raquel

3:24

Richard, she's an editor at Latina

3:26

Mag and so she wrote this really amazing, beautiful

3:29

feature about the podcast, about the program,

3:32

so check it out. Yeah, it's

3:34

amazing. Um. Yeah,

3:37

I just get so excited and happy when I think

3:39

about think about it, you know.

3:41

Yeah, like I was doing a lot of really great work

3:43

for Latina. So shout out to you girl. Um.

3:46

And then we have a conference

3:49

coming up. We will be participating in a

3:51

conference at Pasadena City College April

3:53

twenty twonds called it

3:57

is for Young Girls, Young

3:59

latin US and Young Women of Color. Um.

4:02

So yeah, we're really excited to be presenting fem Tech.

4:04

Do you want to talk a little bit more about that. We're

4:06

gonna present our fem Tech Workshop, but this

4:08

time we're gonna be talking a lot more about

4:12

like other creators, other thinkers,

4:14

other activists, like for example, Kim Milan,

4:17

Yes, her work on fem science

4:20

UM there's a fem tech blog and website

4:22

that's all about UM women

4:25

fems using technology

4:27

for social change and La Lava Loca

4:30

for example, and how she talks about a lethal anologists

4:32

technology. So we're gonna incorporate

4:34

those elements of like all the fems who are

4:36

like talking about fem science fem tech.

4:39

Definitely. I think it's so important for

4:41

us as creators who always acknowledge the

4:43

folks that have especially the fems and women of color

4:46

that have come before us and have carved space,

4:48

pay the way, all that kind of beautiful

4:50

stuff that fems do. So

4:52

shout out to all of them. And we're really

4:54

excited. It'll be our second conference that we're

4:56

presenting at. Yes, we love conferences,

4:59

so thank you to the art users that are bringing

5:01

us out UM. And then

5:03

last night we had we went to a really

5:05

dope art show at the at the Mexican

5:08

Consulate over here in l

5:10

A. And it was a really cool

5:12

space. It was and I've driven

5:14

by there so many times, and I had no idea that

5:16

that was the Consulate. What show was it? The

5:19

Peralta Project show? Yes, the rolls

5:21

and icons. Um,

5:23

it was fun. Dona

5:25

performed. Yeah,

5:27

shout out to the artist Tony

5:30

Berralta. The show is amazing. Um.

5:32

If you follow me on Instagram, you know that

5:34

I have the cele Cruze Condrollos that

5:36

was gifted to me about a year

5:38

ago. So it was really nice to see like

5:41

the whole series, especially La Loupus since

5:43

we'll be talking about La Lupin in the next few

5:45

weeks. Oh yes, yes, so it

5:48

ties together, which I love. And

5:51

then finally shout out congratulations.

5:54

Mala has her very first article

5:56

on the Huffington's Post blog site.

5:59

I'm so can you talk about it? Yeah?

6:01

So, actually shout

6:04

Morsha Childs to

6:07

Yessica and to um

6:09

Tunisia Love Ramirez, who's one of the editors

6:12

at the Huffington Post,

6:14

who extended, um, well,

6:16

you know, gave me the opportunity to write for the blog.

6:19

So my first blog entry I

6:21

posted today and

6:25

it's a post

6:27

that is dedicated to to sexual assault

6:29

survivors and I discussed Denim

6:33

Day, sexual Assault Awareness Month.

6:35

April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month, which

6:37

which actually is very relevant to

6:39

this episode because we talk about survivors

6:42

and safety planning or we're going to we will.

6:45

So check that out if you just look

6:47

up Huffington's post and you google,

6:50

and the title is very intentional, right,

6:52

the title of the pieces there is

6:55

no excuse and never an invitation

6:57

to rape, right and so also you know, major

6:59

trigger morning because there's discussions of sexual

7:01

violence. But you should be able to find

7:04

it. So check that out, and um,

7:07

we'll be talking more about Sexual Assault Awareness

7:10

Month, maybe on the Instagram, on the Twitter, yeah

7:12

absolutely, um. Actually,

7:16

um, her handle is yes

7:19

surely from Peace Over Violence. She

7:22

invited the Mommy Collective to be a part of

7:24

a guest video, a denom Day

7:27

video where we're talking about sexual

7:29

assault, sexual violence, um

7:31

and ways to you know that it shouldn't

7:34

happen, like not on my campus, not

7:36

on my party, you know, really combating

7:38

it. Um. Unfortunately not all

7:40

of the mommies were able to be a part of it, but Maria

7:42

and I were and it was amazing. It

7:44

was an amazing experience, so shout out too. Surely.

7:47

It was a guest headquarters. It was oh my God, I

7:49

felt like j Lo for the day. It

7:52

was amazing. They put

7:54

me in a new dress. So believe me

7:56

when I say that I felt like j Lo. It

7:59

was amazing that my true calling in life tvh

8:01

Um. So yeah, we will be posting

8:03

that at some point whenever that's released,

8:06

will post it on the Instagram. So shout out

8:08

again to Surely for

8:10

making it happen. Yes, okay, cool. Yeah,

8:13

so now let's let's get into yeah

8:16

something we have who do we have on the show, Arthur

8:18

trying? Thank you so much

8:21

to queer Chicano cheese man for being so

8:23

patient so fucking down.

8:26

Hey, how how are you love im?

8:34

Hello? Hello? Yeah?

8:36

Ok ahead, thankhead out for us. He's calling that, he's

8:38

calling in. Introduce yourself calling

8:41

in the third time trying this. Um,

8:43

Hi, my name is but

8:46

you probably know kind of cheese man. I

8:48

am a multi platform

8:51

on all social media. I'm

8:53

on Facebook where I post articles

8:56

that inform my politics and inform

8:59

and sperience as like a queer

9:01

brown chicanom right. Um.

9:04

Then on Instagram, I have a

9:06

collection of images and memes that

9:08

like are often like really personal.

9:11

Um yeah, so I like talk

9:13

about need for identity as like

9:16

a colonized subject of Latin America.

9:19

Um, but also like my depression

9:21

and things like that. Like I'm very I'm

9:24

very open about a lot of things, um

9:26

on Instagram, but also on Twitter, um,

9:29

where I basically like map out like my

9:31

life, like my whole

9:33

life is on Twitter. Like I try

9:36

not to to like shy away

9:38

from topics, right, because one

9:40

of the reasons why I created my platforms is because

9:42

I didn't see like a queer brown

9:45

like Chicano fem like right, like doing

9:47

the damn thing and I did. There was like no roadmap

9:50

for me, right, And

9:52

so I kind of in some ways I

9:54

want to provide like one of what's

9:57

sure to be many roadmaps for other

9:59

like you know, sissy brown boys, as I

10:01

call it, right, so that they can

10:04

alone a and that there's like

10:06

someone there, like that's like making

10:09

mistakes, and like also like thinking

10:11

critically about like not only their existence

10:13

but also like the systems right in which they

10:15

exist. Yeah. Absolutely. You

10:17

know, in our second recording

10:20

of this, our second try, you talked

10:22

about the creation of your platform

10:24

creature on Cheese Man and actually

10:27

you know the cissy Brown Boys that you're talking about,

10:29

and how you included that in your on your graduation

10:31

cap Um. Is that something you feel

10:33

like comfortable talking about now? Yeah?

10:36

Um definitely so um

10:40

yeah, so writing for Cissy Brown Boys is something

10:42

that took on like way

10:45

bigger meanings that I've originally

10:47

intended it to. Right. So,

10:50

Um, I graduated on

10:52

June twelve, two thousand sixteen.

10:55

Um, congratulations, yes,

10:57

congrat thank you. It was a very

10:59

long j yeah.

11:03

And so if you're familiar with that day, you'll

11:05

know that it was the same date as like the Orlando

11:08

um post tragedy, right um,

11:12

And so that happened on a on

11:14

a Sunday morning, right, the tragedy

11:16

happened like at two am, three am

11:19

in Florida. Um, but

11:21

a but a week earlier, I had done

11:23

the same thing that a lot of us had done are

11:25

doing right now, is which is decorat our graduation

11:28

caps right. And so for

11:30

me, I think I couldn't find

11:33

I couldn't find who there dedicated to or what

11:36

you know, A lot of people are like thinking their family and

11:39

the X and y. Right, but as like someone who

11:41

who was disowned, um

11:43

and whose family was a hurdle to graduation

11:46

right as a queer brown person. I

11:48

couldn't be like, thank my family for their struggle,

11:50

because that seemed really disingenuous to me. So

11:53

instead I dedicated it to to

11:56

to other people like me, right who

11:58

may not have had the opportunities

12:01

or the light, you

12:03

know, or the guidance to to make it

12:05

too to a graduation

12:08

stage. Right. So my cap said for

12:10

all the cisy brown boys that couldn't right,

12:13

and I was, and I wrote a small poem about

12:15

it. Um. I wrote a small poem

12:18

that basically said, for all the cycy brown boys that couldn't

12:20

um graduate because of systemic

12:23

violence or because they have to stop being cissy

12:25

brown boys. Right, A lot of the time the world forces

12:29

is to stop being feminine, right,

12:32

demonized femininity. So

12:35

I dedicated to them, um

12:38

A little did I know that like it would take on a

12:40

bigger meaning, um,

12:42

because you know, Orlando took so many like

12:45

brown and black folks from us, right, um,

12:48

and so there was in that number,

12:51

there was folks that couldn't write. There was folks

12:53

whose dreams were cut short. Right.

12:57

So I put out my poem and it and it went

12:59

viral on multiple platforms.

13:01

Um. Thanks to folks on Latina Rebels

13:04

and um.

13:07

And so what happened with that is that I became really available

13:10

to a lot of people. Right, A lot of people have my

13:12

my personal Facebook. So

13:16

even though I was already like a very popular

13:19

like activist and like um

13:22

writer, I didn't expect the kind

13:24

of attention that I got, right, so to

13:27

put like a barrier between me and other people,

13:30

because oftentimes people just see you as a resource.

13:32

Right. I created my platforms,

13:35

um because I saw that there was like a need

13:37

for like this voice, right that I was like

13:40

speaking um, but

13:42

also like I needed to self care. Yeah

13:44

yeah, And do you see your platforms

13:47

and social media as self care and

13:49

as venting? Like is that what it is for

13:51

you? Yeah? Oh my god,

13:53

My Twitter is like super

13:56

like it's like a double edged

13:58

sword. Like sometimes when I write

14:00

something like that's like politically charged or

14:02

like socially like that like a critique,

14:05

yah anything like oh my god,

14:07

like the trolls will coup. They

14:09

flock. They always do. Yeah,

14:11

they have a flock, right, they flock. It's

14:14

not only like bigots, right, it's also like our community,

14:17

right criticism

14:19

appreciate. Very frustrating, yeah,

14:22

very upsetting. Yeah, I'm

14:25

sure you all know it you'll talk about like some real ship.

14:27

Oh yeah, the ship that

14:29

we get from our own community when we

14:31

talk about what rape culture, men

14:34

men mention terrorists.

14:36

Yeah they are. They show

14:38

up, but in the wrong way, you

14:41

know, they show up. But yes,

14:45

it's annoying.

14:50

Yeah, so like a part of like a

14:52

part of it is like really damaging.

14:55

It's good. It's so good right on

14:57

Twitter, Like I found community,

14:59

I found other fans. I thought a lot of people

15:01

who like were like, damn, like you're

15:04

going to change me the same ship that like I thought. But

15:06

I you know, I thought I was imagining, right,

15:09

I don't want to speak certain things. They're like, oh my

15:11

god, like they feel less gaslighted.

15:14

And gas lighting is when you're made to think that you're

15:17

um than your mental status,

15:20

um something that it isn't right in a

15:22

form of abuse. You know, so

15:24

we can see, you

15:26

know, and have experienced for

15:29

people, for folks listening who

15:31

you know, the term gaslighting might be a new

15:33

term. An example of gaslighting is like

15:36

it's an abuse tactic, right, Like an

15:38

abusive person might do

15:40

bad things to you, you know, um,

15:43

but then lie and cover

15:45

it up and tell you that you're making it up

15:48

or you're you know, you're imagining

15:50

it to make you feel as if you're

15:52

crazy, crazy making. Exactly,

15:55

crazy making, which is something we've talked about in our

15:57

first couple of the world. The world are

16:00

society's like purchase gas

16:02

light us and abuse us on wide

16:04

scales and interpersonal skills, and

16:06

it's like, yeah, crazy making. So when

16:08

women fans respond

16:11

in particular ways to trauma, it's

16:14

were labeled as crazy

16:16

as if the point of aggression began

16:19

with our reaction right

16:21

now looking at the causes. Yes, that reminds

16:23

me like when I when I had like

16:25

a really big falling out with one of my ex girlfriends,

16:29

um one of our at the time mutual

16:31

friends, like reached out to me and was like,

16:33

you're calling so and so abusive. It makes

16:36

me think that you're going through something really

16:38

terrible, terrible

16:41

Yeah, like like you must be going through something

16:43

that's making you make this up because

16:45

you're crazy, right exactly,

16:47

Yeah, example gaslighting gas

16:50

lighting. So yeah,

16:53

yeah, And you know what, Uban,

16:55

you know what I love about you too, Like earlier you mentioned

16:57

that you know, you like to bring up topics and talk

16:59

about things that other people are not talking about.

17:01

That we don't like to talk about and it's

17:03

true, and you do it in like a lot of

17:06

different ways. It's levels because you

17:08

could talk about you know, the politics,

17:11

race, sexuality, but

17:14

you also want to talk about Selena and the

17:16

cow print and bring it up. People

17:19

were very upset. Then can

17:22

we talk about fluid Head and tell

17:24

us? Can you can you set the

17:27

scene of the meme before us the please?

17:30

Yeah? Okay, yeah, drag me yes,

17:35

Okay. So I made a meme were it

17:37

was like a picture of Selenna and her

17:39

iconic purple but that

17:41

she wore and that you know, one of her last

17:43

big concerts, right at the Astronome,

17:46

the Astrodome. Yeah. And

17:49

then I had a juxtapose picture

17:52

of Selenna and those Denos

17:54

in their cow print outfits

17:57

right right right, like cow print chaps

18:00

and like leather right and

18:03

I posted like the text was like, sometimes

18:06

I feel like I'm not doing my best work, but

18:08

then I remember that for every iconic purple

18:10

outfit at Slemma War, she also

18:12

wore a count And

18:15

oh my god, how do people respond? Please

18:18

describe it prribly? Oh my god, the work

18:21

like so dragged. People are like, you're

18:23

just you're offending the culture again,

18:26

and how dare you disrespect

18:29

like the idol or like you're

18:31

you're like being really offensive and I'm just

18:33

like they came for you. Yeah,

18:36

and I'm just like, a, this is a joke, Like

18:39

it's called like being like you

18:41

know, it's like called like self dragging in some ways,

18:44

Yes, I expect that people to come for

18:46

me, right, because you can't. But

18:48

it's funny though, because it's like there

18:51

was you know, because we even

18:53

like the girls like mommy collective, I can't

18:55

lie. We were in our group chat

18:57

talking about that meme and we were like, oh

18:59

my god, that is an iconic Sve

19:03

Hannah. We love the calfrint, we love

19:05

the cop yes, even

19:07

as even as we were like side yeah,

19:11

we were, I don't know about this one even

19:13

I do not know. But

19:15

here's my thing though. Here's my thing is that

19:17

like I like doing that ship because

19:20

I like people. I like to um

19:22

so something that somebody described me as one

19:26

on the class right, I'm someone

19:28

that like um pushes

19:30

like um not only the boundaries

19:32

but also like people's idea

19:35

of idolization. So

19:37

people people see Selena

19:39

right for some reason, we

19:41

can't touch her, like, ok, God, can't

19:43

say anything that's even like a mildly

19:46

no, you cannot know. And

19:48

so she's all we have. She's all we

19:50

have. We're very protective of her, very

19:53

protective, and I think, I mean, you can't

19:55

separate the fact that like how she

19:57

left us as to why people are

20:00

active up. Yeah, yeah,

20:02

and there's been like, oh, there's like so many

20:04

things that can be said about that,

20:07

right, But there's also so many things

20:09

that can be said about like the way that we hold

20:12

on to idols as

20:14

Chicken is right. We have many of

20:16

them. We will, yeah, we have so

20:19

many of them. We will be talking about another idol

20:21

in the near at the end, like

20:23

towards the end of this, we're gonna

20:25

be talking about another another idol. Um.

20:28

I don't mean to put you off from men, but we

20:30

do have to go into our song break right now, break

20:32

where we're just we're just getting started, just

20:34

getting started. This will be a nice little break,

20:37

and then we're going to really get into the Cheese Man

21:00

from a Ship

21:26

and we're back. So that

21:29

was Lela Downs. Thank you again

21:32

through Ben for bringing this song for us

21:34

to play. Now let's get

21:36

into like we were talking about,

21:39

She's mad she's met

21:41

in all its facets.

21:44

M h, yeah,

21:46

go ahead,

21:49

okay, Um yeah,

21:52

Like, um, cheesem is really important to me,

21:54

right, But like I also want to

21:56

establish that I approached I approached

21:58

cheese man like from a very like decalon

22:02

to colonized lens. Right. I look

22:05

at it very differently than most people do. And I

22:07

want to acknowledge the fact that like, um,

22:10

like this in essence is something beyond like

22:12

it's Western restrictions and in post

22:15

definitions or norms. Right, But

22:19

I understand that like like a lot of

22:21

people get like really offended by it, right,

22:23

and or really they

22:25

get really weird it out by like the fact

22:27

that I praise cheese me or that I call myself cheese

22:30

man, right, and because

22:32

it has a negative connotation, it does, Yeah,

22:35

I have some connotations that has been brought

22:37

to it, right, I mean a really common phrase

22:39

that we hear and like Latino Latino,

22:41

Latino, Latino X houses is right

22:46

right yeah um

22:49

yeah um,

22:51

And like and I know it's hurt a lot of people, right,

22:53

cheese man, specifically unethical

22:55

cheeseman, which you will get too later. Like that's hurt people,

22:58

right, um. And

23:00

like if we're gonna like get down to the root of it,

23:02

like the etymology, like that means

23:05

like the root of the word um

23:07

uh. It is like the Latin word cheesema chism,

23:10

which means division. Um.

23:13

But again, like that wasn't a like a word

23:15

that we and like you know

23:17

as like colonized latinize like Latin

23:20

x Latin American subjects like called

23:22

that form of expression, right. It was

23:25

something that colonizers imposed on us,

23:27

right. Um. So they saw like a

23:29

practice right that we that we had,

23:32

and then colonizers imposed a word

23:34

on that right, and they saw it as

23:36

like something that was very divided, right, because

23:39

that was the only way that they saw things right.

23:42

Because not only do we have to remember that um,

23:44

a lot of the terms we use our colonized, but

23:46

also a lot of the um the

23:49

ideas right that we have, such as

23:51

gender right, so like

23:53

binary notions of gender like which is

23:55

like a division of the way we look at

23:57

people, right, that was brought on by

23:59

colonized. Yeah, because if you think about like

24:02

if so say, you know you're a colonizer, right, you

24:04

see these people and the way that they are

24:06

transmitting the way they're preserving

24:08

their their history, their religions,

24:12

any type of like customs that they

24:14

have. They're doing it through storytelling, through

24:17

speaking. So creating that type

24:19

of cheeseman, that kind of negative

24:21

connotation is vital to destroying

24:24

what they have and I and

24:26

this makes me think of of

24:28

course, and a great example

24:31

of this as far as like you

24:34

know, safety planning, sharing

24:36

information, spreading knowledge,

24:38

organizing in the midst of oppression, like

24:41

African Americans and their oral tradition

24:44

and call and responds. And one

24:46

of the reasons why black folk on Twitter

24:48

really dominate Twitter and really utilize

24:51

it in a way that is more efficient

24:54

and expressive than any other. I

24:56

think black women invented Twitter, to be

24:58

honest, they invented the Internet, how I feel,

25:00

And so we each different

25:03

type of colonized subject is going to have their own

25:05

model, right somehow resisting

25:07

or responding to colonization and the

25:09

spread of knowledge and information is vital

25:12

to that, right, Yeah,

25:16

absolutely right? And like um,

25:18

like as a brown queer family, like I

25:21

get that. Like um

25:23

again, like that cheese mat how does negative

25:25

connotations? Right? Um?

25:27

Because I've also been hurt by cheeseman, Right, but it's

25:30

also been really helpful, right, not

25:32

only like in the way that y'all have brought it up, right,

25:34

Like, so people get to like um

25:36

spread information, right, but also like history,

25:39

right, there's certain things that are not written

25:41

down anywhere, right,

25:43

So like in its very essence, like cheesemet

25:46

is like immaterial like

25:49

truth or immaterial newsterial

25:52

information because it's information

25:54

that exists without receipts. And so

25:57

much of our experiences as Latino

25:59

X people have to do with living

26:01

and existing without receipts.

26:03

So much of being a fam or a woman

26:06

or a survivor is about having

26:08

a reality and experience without

26:10

evidence, without without receipts.

26:13

Literally, but we have the stories

26:15

and the narratives, right, it happened,

26:18

but it's not documented in Eurocentric

26:21

white waves. It's not you know, likefore

26:24

not valid, therefore not valid, not believed.

26:28

Yes, absolutely, And I think right now it's like

26:30

a great time too to like bring

26:32

up one of Like I think our collective

26:34

heroes right about Dominican sounds

26:37

are like the middle of everything we just mentioned

26:39

right back, Like next woman fam

26:41

right, Like I think one of the things

26:44

that hit me somebody of what she says has hit

26:46

me really hard, right, So much like

26:48

if you don't follow about Dominicana on all platforms

26:51

like and support her and

26:53

her fireworks. Patron

26:57

Yes, be a patron, U shop

26:59

her stuff, uh sho

27:02

s hera Kelly dot Com like

27:04

support she makes such beautiful artwork. Yeah.

27:07

One of the one of the things that's hit me the hardest

27:09

that she said is like people say

27:11

that like educate yourself with books, right, but

27:13

like as an after, Latina's

27:15

in existent books. So she's like documenting

27:18

her existence on Twitter and

27:20

on all her platforms, right. Yeah.

27:23

And a lot of us come from families

27:26

and areas and regions

27:28

and villages and tribes and communities

27:31

where maybe a lot of our

27:33

ancestors did not have birth certificates,

27:35

like our birds existence

27:38

were not documented in the same ways, right,

27:41

So like we could talk about if we go

27:43

on ancestry dot com, how far back are

27:45

they really able to go our grandparents,

27:48

our parents, Yeah, because I know

27:50

that my dad's grandparents they

27:52

did not have bird certificates, and they

27:54

didn't have their their own original names

27:56

because whatever, like you

27:59

know, basically

28:01

Rancho that you were working for, if you

28:03

were an Indian and Indigenous person, it

28:06

was not uncommon for you to be given the last

28:08

name of the rancho

28:10

because working on that ranch.

28:13

Right, So how far back can we really go

28:16

when we don't have our real names, right,

28:18

when we don't have birth certificates in those documents?

28:22

Yes, this

28:25

though, um

28:27

talk with you all before about how like, um,

28:31

my mother's birthday on record, it's

28:33

not like actual real

28:35

birthday, right, this

28:38

is a perfect example. Yes, um,

28:41

okay, So my mother was

28:43

born in a pueblo where like back

28:45

in the day, right, you're

28:49

like, Catholicism was such that it imposed

28:51

certain rules on women where they couldn't register their

28:53

own children, right, so

28:56

the husbands had to do it, or the man and the family

28:58

had to do They have to go and claim a child that's

29:00

their own in order for them to be valid,

29:02

right, in order for them to have a registrate,

29:04

and to have to rely on men for

29:07

like to do a stage one, step

29:09

one of your life to register you

29:11

like step one and to have that

29:13

be relying on a man is so stressful.

29:16

Can I just say, like side real quick,

29:19

my father fucked up my birth

29:21

certificate because he was in

29:23

charge of that. So yes, we could cry

29:25

make them episode about fathers

29:27

and birth certificates and claiming kids

29:30

and not claiming kids and lying about having

29:32

kids. I we will

29:34

say that for our next

29:37

So back to the men. Tell

29:41

us, M sorry,

29:43

I was taking a step.

29:47

Okay, So, like my mother

29:49

was born in July, right, she's a

29:51

leg um.

29:55

But because the rules were such

29:57

that, like your dad had to register

30:00

you, she wasn't registered

30:02

until late September because my grandfather

30:06

born. So when she was born, he

30:09

went like in a drinking bit, like

30:12

hollidays, right, and when

30:14

he finally came to it

30:17

was already way past that month. And

30:19

why was it? Can you tell us again? Why

30:21

was it that he was so upset when she was born

30:24

because she was a girl and not a boy. He wanted

30:27

a boy, so he felt up her ship and

30:29

she was a girl. So on

30:31

record was she's a virgo? Excuse

30:35

me? So on record she's a virgo?

30:37

Huh yeah, unfortunately, but

30:40

she's really a leal, which

30:43

is what matters. And I think it's when I get along

30:45

with Leo's um.

30:50

So yeah, so she wasn't registered until like

30:52

September, so I

30:54

wouldn't know my mom's actual birthday

30:57

if it wasn't for cheese may right, more

31:00

right, Because of records of Mexico,

31:02

which is a nation state, right, um,

31:05

you know, which is like an ultimate form of

31:07

a colony, right, because their

31:09

records show that my mother was born in a different

31:11

day. Yeah, so yeah,

31:14

you know my so my government name

31:16

and not my performance name. You know,

31:18

Ariana right, and my Tokaya,

31:20

Myawella my dad's side. When she

31:23

immigrated here in the nineties,

31:26

Um, when she was, you know, doing her immigration

31:28

stuff, when the person

31:31

was that was doing her paperwork heard her name, thought

31:33

she said Adrianna. So

31:35

there's a D in her name, like in her

31:38

her documents here, Um

31:40

there's a D. So she's not even like by her right

31:43

name. And she was so afraid to correct him

31:46

that she's like so here she

31:48

she was living as Adriana and Arianna

31:51

you know, shout

31:53

out my Alita giscontin bus but

31:56

yeah, you know, like and I wouldn't have known

31:58

that had my family not told me because

32:00

and my dad's family, my dad's side of the family,

32:03

my dad's grandfather, so my great grandfather

32:07

and they're Yuckyans are

32:09

from Chihuahua, And it was kind of a running

32:11

joke in the family, and my dad would joke that

32:13

every year they would have a birthday party for Grandpa

32:16

for great grandpa. But he was

32:18

like, yeah, well, we don't really know how old he is.

32:20

He's had his birthdays

32:23

five times. You know, they just are guessing

32:25

and how old he is. And it's that kind of

32:27

thing that it's like you want us or

32:30

we should as people be able

32:32

to have all this knowledge about ourselves, but

32:35

sometimes we don't even know how old we are basically

32:39

ship you know, but because

32:41

of structures and history

32:43

and oppression and colonization all of it.

32:47

Yes, Because again, like

32:50

like our parents a lot of the times, like when they

32:52

come to the U s Or they you know, where they immigrate,

32:55

they like homie, and like

32:57

my mother didn't carry her paper, like her doc

33:00

meentation across the border, right, like um,

33:03

a lot of our parents didn't, right,

33:05

So like you're like

33:09

she couldn't bring her documentation be like,

33:11

oh, my name is actually Adriana, right right,

33:15

she probably didn't have it, and if she did

33:17

have it, like it would probably

33:19

put her in danger. Yeah, there was a power dynamic

33:22

evidently, you know, she was afraid

33:24

that this person wasn't going to let her enter the US

33:27

because she corrected him because

33:30

he like didn't understand her name.

33:32

You know, my little like a four eleven Alita,

33:35

you know yeah yeah from

33:37

THRUO shout out anyone if you're

33:40

listening. Yeah,

33:44

but yeah, like going back, like I wouldn't have known

33:46

that had my family not told me cheese

33:48

man, right, and

33:51

like cheese mate can be like not only

33:53

like a form of like documentation,

33:56

but like also like a form of preservation,

33:59

right, and so many ways right

34:01

one of the first like again

34:03

like as a brown fem of course, I've been like hurt

34:06

by cheeseman, right, like I like,

34:08

even though I'm someone who kept hide there

34:11

their identity, right, like I am very

34:13

I mean, y'all see me move like I know however I

34:15

want to move right, It is wonderful and

34:20

I occupy a very fem space right

34:22

there that will never pass as what people think

34:24

of as like a man quote

34:26

unquote right. And so treatment

34:29

has been used to like hurt me, right, because

34:32

people have always in these negative implications

34:34

of queerness, right and feminity.

34:38

And so it was it was in college when

34:40

I found ways in which

34:42

cheestement um was

34:44

like with was my clothes group of friends that they

34:46

were that they outlined it to me

34:49

and brought it to light as something positive, right,

34:51

because when we go into the predominantly

34:53

white spaces, right, we often don't

34:56

have a safety net or anything,

34:58

right unless we connect other people of color, black

35:02

people of color. Right. Yeah,

35:04

oh my god, there's just and what you just said,

35:06

there's so much. There's so much to unpack

35:09

and to talk about. We should

35:11

do, like a future like

35:16

as a queer or

35:18

fhem or brown person studying

35:20

at the university, like what

35:23

you have to do to survive. That could be really

35:25

great for our younger listeners that

35:28

are listening folks that are like

35:30

our non traditional students that maybe

35:32

like pursuing something in the future. Yeah,

35:35

yes, I mean we've talked about this

35:37

about being this part one right,

35:39

yes, so bookmark this idea. There's a

35:41

lot of ideas. You know. You know what I love

35:44

because the achievement when it happens, it's

35:46

a moment. There's nothing I love

35:48

more then because you can tell

35:51

when the cheese was about to happen. There's nothing

35:53

I love more than when my mother comes to me in

35:55

a in a hushed whisper

35:58

and listen, yeah, I

36:02

told you this, you know. Oh

36:04

yeah, I'm ready for it. I'm like, okay, let's go.

36:06

When you grab a seat, let me pour a glass

36:08

of wine. I'm ready. You know it's about to happen.

36:10

Yeah, you know, let me paint a picture for y'all because I feel

36:12

like my between my mother and I

36:15

are cheese mess sesh. Like is

36:17

while I'm at my vanity and I'm

36:19

getting ready for work. So she comes

36:21

in and she's like, Sam,

36:24

okay, Arianna, let's have a word. And

36:27

then she starts telling me the third

36:29

person, Yes, I

36:31

did, Yes, I did once

36:36

in a while sometimes anyway,

36:38

So that is my like that is when we have

36:40

our little cheese mess sage and she's like, you know what your

36:43

boppy did? You know what he did? You

36:45

know what I heard? And I'm like tell me, tell

36:47

me right exactly. It's a moment,

36:49

and it's like when it's about to happen,

36:52

there's like signals there are exciting

36:57

yes, yes, oh my god, there's

36:59

signals to cheese man, because like girl

37:02

like and here's what the big this is

37:04

where like a big thing comes. Right, there's

37:06

a difference between like cheese

37:09

mat and again we're gonna talk about like being

37:11

in a teacher right, like yeah, let's

37:13

talk about let's get into it. So

37:16

like this is different when somebody's coming to you with some like juicy

37:19

cheese man that you know it's gonna be like, it's

37:21

gonna be good. And

37:24

there are sometimes when cheese mat is bad and

37:26

that's when somebody's being in my teacher right,

37:28

So my teachers someone who like cemented

37:31

look right, like things that don't matter

37:33

to them. Right. So my cheese met thread

37:35

on Twitter, um gets past

37:38

like it gets retweeted a lot. Something that's

37:40

one of my most like um

37:42

like um my my my tweets

37:44

as the most longevity. Right. I tweeted

37:47

it, I formed it in like October,

37:50

and to the day, I still get comments

37:52

on it. That's the thread that made me fall in love

37:54

with you. It's

37:57

snatched me and I've

37:59

been hooked ever since. Yeah.

38:02

So like that often gets really positive

38:05

like feedback, or

38:07

it gets completely stolen by somebody else

38:09

whatever really bad

38:12

like feedback. Right, I've had

38:14

people bash the try to come for me right

38:16

for it, right, and it's

38:18

it's like things such as like people are like

38:21

remember that, like u F word,

38:23

I mean afford who try

38:25

to politicize cheese may or remember

38:28

that. And let's be clear, these are fellow

38:30

Latino X community. These

38:32

are probably Latino man,

38:35

Latin X folks, latinos. Yes,

38:37

well it's actually a combination of like, okay,

38:40

so a lot of so yeah, the majority of them

38:42

are like, aren't Latin

38:44

ohs? Sometimes a get like Latin

38:46

excess coming from me to right people?

38:51

Right? Um? And so people

38:53

confused being a cheese most so she's most

38:56

she's most ex which being a mid teacher,

38:58

right, that makes sense. That makes sense. Being a cheese

39:00

mosul with a chiefs most sexes one another

39:03

requires a certain level of trust because

39:06

we can talk about the fact that when you share

39:08

cheesement you have particular

39:10

people that you share it with. It's not everybody.

39:13

You know who you can trust, and you know who you can

39:15

talk to and who you can't. There's logic

39:17

behind it, yes, And

39:20

that's a ship that people miss. Is like fucking Nuance

39:22

nance. It's very important. Um

39:28

but yeah, something I even have io.

39:31

Right, It's like Nuance, it's so important.

39:34

Uh right, not all cheese mans,

39:37

Yeah, biggest

39:39

teach that we know of. Um.

39:54

People say that, like all

39:57

right, but jesus, how political.

40:00

Right, So we're going to look at it too, right,

40:03

So when we think

40:05

about like unethical cheeseman,

40:07

right, when we think about my chas, we must

40:10

think about the government rights

40:12

fu right, the saying shit, they're

40:15

looking at our records, like looking at doesn't

40:18

listening in on our conversations, probably

40:21

listening right now, TV listening

40:24

right the funk now say what

40:31

right and so and

40:34

so because all these things get recorded, right.

40:36

Cheese has been used in very political

40:38

ways to write. So, like when we think

40:41

about like Nixon and Deep Throw,

40:43

right if if you yeah

40:47

we uh so? Basically deep

40:49

throw was like, uh someone who was

40:52

you know, inside of Nixon's administration,

40:54

right, who spilled like the cheese

40:56

man who spilled the t Yeah, that's

41:00

Nixon was doing right in order

41:02

to bring down the US whoever

41:05

whoever slipped

41:08

over those Trump tax returns.

41:10

That was classic classic. That's

41:13

the same as a sending a screenshot, you

41:15

know, yeah pretty

41:17

much. Yeah. So like in these

41:20

ways, like cheeseman is very political, right,

41:22

wiki leaks so political?

41:25

Cheese man, yes, political, cheeseman

41:28

absolutely. And I had like a whole

41:30

fucking as second write about like the way that wiki

41:32

leaks came around and who was who

41:34

was ultimately persecuted? Right, because who was persecuted

41:36

for that ship? Oh does

41:41

the transgender woman who ended

41:43

up being put in a men's prison because of the

41:46

league fallout. And where is Snowden? Where

41:49

a man Edward Snowden did

41:52

not read the bad repercussion ERG.

41:55

No, No, it's really it really

41:57

is very incredible, And we can talk

41:59

of we can point out the fact that

42:02

when the United States government

42:05

engages in myth or

42:07

she's most so shit, it's

42:09

labeled literally as intelligence.

42:13

It's literally called intelligence, bitch

42:16

intelligence. Yes, And that

42:18

comes down to like how cheeseman is gender,

42:21

Yes, yes, because yes,

42:25

let him a head, let him head, let

42:28

a bit engage in some gossip.

42:32

She's most privilegedgen

42:35

more. Absolutely

42:38

right. Um,

42:40

sorry, I just thought that we were all talking to over each other.

42:42

Remember this joke about like how podcasts

42:45

are often like millennials talking over each other.

42:48

Oh my god, I love it. No, you know, would

42:51

it be like that sometimes when the cheesem is that good,

42:53

y'all are talking over each other. But

42:56

there's this thing about like talking over each other even

42:58

when you're cheating me, you can then

43:00

we're still listening to. Also,

43:03

I feel like this is a very Latin American thing

43:05

because in the US, like when

43:07

you speak English, like you it's like a weight

43:09

in response. Right, No, in

43:12

America, you are all having

43:14

like five different conversations at the same table

43:17

and everyone was listening. She's

43:22

you know, when I noticed that white people really

43:24

do speak differently and have a whole

43:26

different speaking structure than Latinos

43:29

than we do when the

43:32

what no,

43:36

no, not, then that's not when it happened

43:38

a different time, another different time.

43:40

So no, Like, okay, A,

43:43

I went to a predominantly Latino

43:46

and Filipino elementary

43:48

and middle school, and then when I went to high

43:50

school, I went to a predominantly white

43:53

high school, and I noticed

43:55

right away that A the way people

43:57

dressed was extremely different.

44:00

I was like, why is everyone barefoot? Basically

44:04

that was me when I went to UC Santa Barbara. Yeah,

44:06

I was like, how come no one was clothes at school?

44:08

Like it was strange. It was different for me. I

44:10

was like, they don't do their hair, they don't

44:12

put makeup on, and they don't

44:14

even wear shoes. Yes, they don't wear shoes.

44:17

Go ahead, Ruben, Yeah,

44:19

that's the same ship. When I went to UC David's, right, it

44:21

was all these like you know, these white

44:23

people who literally try

44:25

to pretend they were poor, but they were so

44:29

like the thing about

44:31

like whiteness, like people don't judge you

44:33

on the way you look as much as the judge

44:37

or femininity or femininity when

44:39

old femininity and so

44:42

not only did I notice that expression

44:44

in general was different for white people. And

44:46

I noticed this when I was fourteen, right,

44:48

and I went to this white high school. So expression

44:50

in general is different for white people, so

44:53

not only how they dress and the way that

44:55

they carry themselves, but

44:57

the way that they speak. Right, And I noticed

45:00

in high school and when I went to college and I

45:02

joined the Senate, that there was this

45:04

emphasis on rules and regulations

45:06

when it came to discussion and debate

45:09

like this Lincoln Douglas style debate,

45:11

and where there's rules and like convention,

45:14

and when one person speaks, other

45:16

people cannot chime in no matter what that person

45:19

is saying, right, the

45:22

form matters more than the contents

45:24

that goes with that whole, Like

45:27

well, everybody's entitles an opinion, even

45:29

if it's hateful, even if it's demeaning to people

45:32

of color, Like rebuttals,

45:34

even where rebuttals, even rebuttals are like

45:36

regulated, so you can only respond a

45:39

certain number of times, and if you adhere

45:42

to certain protocol and this is supposed

45:44

to be in government like debate settings. It

45:46

was so strange to me, and I could not do

45:49

student government for more than a year. And

45:51

it had a lot to do with the restrictions on

45:53

the way that we spoke. I couldn't stand

45:55

it because I had the same way for all these dumbass

45:58

like sucking oh my, just so

46:01

so out of touch, just so tone deaf,

46:03

just so in every way ignorant, like

46:06

all these people like saying all this horrible

46:08

ship and you're literally not allowed to

46:10

respond, you know. Okay,

46:12

yeah, okay. So I brought up like white

46:15

man because that's how I came into like how white

46:17

people communicate, and it's just like it's

46:19

very much like no, like this

46:21

right, yeah, like

46:24

they no matter what the funk the other one is saying,

46:26

like they're not accustomed to shut shutting

46:28

people down. Back is not

46:31

strong, they don't do it. It's

46:33

like it's like there's this essay that I've wad in college,

46:35

but it's like about like the language of whiteness

46:37

and how like everybody's polite and everybody's

46:39

saying somebody without saying anything, yes,

46:42

right, and then here we come, Yeah,

46:45

here we come, ye, which brings us back to how people

46:47

say, like you sound white or whatever, right, the quote

46:50

unquote polite. Right, Well, we

46:52

are necessarily polite, Like we just learned to

46:54

like navigate white space exactly. The

46:56

code switching, the code switching that's

46:59

to happen, and it's so layered for

47:01

for folks. I feel like us

47:03

Latino folks, Latin X folks,

47:06

chic xes, because not

47:08

only do we navigate like cold twitching in like

47:10

the class sense, but also like

47:13

language wise, like English wise. Yeah

47:17

no, yeah, it's so interesting, it

47:19

really is. Yeah. So

47:22

that brings me to like existing in

47:24

like one of the biggest predominantly

47:26

white spaces in college,

47:28

right like you yeah, you

47:34

like that the

47:36

last sentence. Can you repeat it because you cut

47:38

out a little bit. Yeah,

47:40

so alledge a lot of times you don't know what

47:43

actually spaces are, right right,

47:46

Like there's like Latin Next centers, but oftentimes

47:48

they're not actually safe, right

47:51

And there's like a Latin Next Chica studying department

47:54

that it is not necessarily saying so we can talk

47:56

about cheese men and survivors,

47:59

yes, okay, the community and safety

48:01

planning and disposability and accountability

48:04

This is such a good transition, like talking

48:06

about the university and like Chicano Chicken

48:09

X Latino Latino X spaces

48:11

and how they're supposedly safe, but

48:14

really a lot of these men in our departments

48:17

are predators, predators

48:20

users. Our communities protect them, have multiple,

48:23

multiple rape allegations

48:25

against them from students. But

48:27

they're they're on their tenure. You

48:29

know, they've done so much, they give so much

48:32

funding comes to the department because of them. So

48:34

let's not touch them, let's protect them as

48:36

opposed to these vulnerable students. So,

48:38

but how do we learn to not take their classes

48:41

through chiefsmen right through

48:44

a down as t a through a

48:46

grad student, as somebody else, an

48:48

older student that took them in a don't

48:52

careful, don't take this class,

48:55

don't be alone with this person, or

48:58

don't mess with this activists exactly. Yeah,

49:00

yeah, I think, oh,

49:04

like as someone who's a survivor or someone

49:06

in like who like activists,

49:08

right, um, like

49:11

coming out about like my

49:13

rapists, like it's not

49:15

gonna it has historically not

49:17

led to survivors being believed

49:21

to be persecuted. Right,

49:23

as we know, as we know in the

49:25

United States,

49:27

as we know it's statistical,

49:30

it's factual, and this is information. And

49:32

this is why it pisces me off when like Latino

49:35

men, when men of color come at us with

49:37

this very eurocentric demand

49:40

of show me evidence. They want the science,

49:42

they want the science. Well, the thing is

49:44

And it's funny though, because when it comes to violence

49:47

against women and fems, the information

49:49

is out there. Even the Department of Justice

49:52

collects this information the city's,

49:54

state and federal level. Like, we

49:56

know that the

49:59

number one threat to women and firms

50:01

who our safeties and our livelihoods are

50:03

men. That's what we know.

50:06

That's what we know. You know, you could literally

50:08

go on the d J website

50:10

and see it plainly written

50:13

now and it's been acknowledged, and this

50:15

information has been collected for years,

50:17

but there's still this cognitive dissonance and

50:19

like unwillingness to acknowledge you know,

50:23

yeah, absolutely, um,

50:26

And like accountability like what accountability

50:29

right? Right, it doesn't

50:31

it doesn't exist specifically in activist spaces,

50:33

right, because who do we gather to protect?

50:36

Like we don't gather to protect women, like

50:41

we gather to protect men, right

50:43

and defite man but not limited

50:46

to sist man. Anyone who ticks the

50:48

ideal of mannerhood, masculine

50:51

masculinity, and so that leads

50:53

us to a discussion of right of right like

50:55

disposability, which we

50:58

begin to notice and we begin to see,

51:00

at least you know, I do because of the work

51:03

that I do with Ripe Crisis and working

51:05

with survivors, we begin to see

51:07

this, this ongoing trend of

51:10

we bring up this idea that people

51:12

are not disposable. But we bring up

51:14

this idea generally

51:16

when it comes to protecting

51:19

a known abuser or a known

51:22

perpetrators position in the

51:24

community. We only talk

51:26

about disposability when we're trying

51:28

to keep abusers exactly where they're

51:30

at and not changing their access,

51:33

or their position, or their power. I

51:35

have never, in an activist space, in

51:37

a Latin X in a brown black space,

51:40

heard anybody say, because

51:42

women and children and

51:44

survivors are not disposable,

51:46

we will take disclosure seriously, and

51:49

we will take safety

51:51

for women and children and fems and survivors

51:53

seriously, so we will separate you

51:55

know, perpetrators from community for at least

51:57

a time, or we will take steps. I've

51:59

never heard that. I have only heard

52:02

people aren't disposable. So such and such

52:04

added, abuser should be allowed to

52:06

have all of the space at the

52:09

art exhibitions, at the talks, at

52:11

the conferences, at the performances.

52:13

We're not going to change anything about their

52:16

access to the community based on

52:18

what we know about this. You know, who gives the funk

52:20

about the survivor? Who gives

52:23

And this is why like cheeseman comes into

52:25

play because we

52:27

know the system it ain't here for us, right. We

52:29

know no one's going to protect us, specifically

52:31

our survivors. So how do we protect one

52:34

another? We spread that ethical cheesemay,

52:36

right, Um, we protect

52:38

We're like, hey, homie, don't hung out with this person,

52:41

don't don't like this is

52:43

what happened. We don't just say it

52:45

to everybody. We say it to people who we

52:47

trust and who we want to protect.

52:49

Right Because the part of ethical chreestment is

52:51

million power dynamics. Right,

52:54

Because who are you protecting and who are you

52:56

exposing? Right? If

52:58

if the cheeseman is ethical and the intention

53:00

to protect and inform, then

53:03

you would not be exposing

53:06

or outing a vulnerable individual.

53:08

You would be exposing and outing power

53:11

and a hierarchy and imbalance

53:13

and violence. Right. Absolutely,

53:15

So someone recently, like I mentioned earlier,

53:18

my cheese mat threat is like constantly

53:20

like circulating, right, um,

53:23

And somebody recently came to me was like some

53:25

sh it about like, well,

53:27

fuck you cheese man, is what

53:30

had my hope? Peblo demonized my mother

53:32

for remarried, right, And

53:35

I'm just like, no, ho mean, that's like being

53:37

a that's being and that's

53:39

spreading an ethical cheeseman. Because

53:41

in our in our culture, right, women

53:44

who remarry or get divorced, of women who do

53:46

anything outside of the door get demonizes, right, So

53:50

her pueblo was being helmet dechas what

53:52

then do they care that that somebody's parents don't

53:55

married. I feel like that goes back to not

53:57

actually cheeseman, but actually protecting

53:59

masculine And because because

54:02

who who is she like wronging

54:05

by remarrying exactly the

54:08

man that the former partners,

54:10

the first husband and his family. Yep,

54:13

yes, absolutely, because men are

54:15

never freaking like demon And because

54:17

if we're thinking about if this was a woman

54:20

in Latin America, right, and who

54:22

knows what decade, what year, right,

54:25

what other economic options did

54:27

she have for survival besides

54:29

Mary? But she want to demonize

54:31

the fact that she got remarried so she can

54:34

eat and have a place to live. So

54:36

she's wrong because the circumstances

54:39

forced that type of interaction.

54:41

That's victim blaming. Oh

54:44

my god, funk yes, Um,

54:46

So that brings me back to like something that like something

54:48

else's medals Um wrote

54:50

one time, and I'm just like

54:53

a mad but she was basically like how

54:55

in Latin X connects cultures

54:58

like women and queer and trying folks

55:00

are united um by

55:02

the fact that they're off. Women

55:04

specifically women who um

55:07

are open about their sexuality are

55:09

demonized in ways that parallel

55:11

queer trans folks right, Like we all

55:14

we all get kicked out of our house right right because

55:17

we we decided to be open about you

55:19

know, our desires or who we are we

55:22

are, right yeah, And you know, something

55:24

that we talked about in the second

55:27

recording of the same trilogy

55:30

is trilogy Um is the importance

55:33

of chosen family. And for queer

55:35

folks especially like chosen family

55:37

like is extremely important.

55:39

It's extremely vital to to our survival

55:42

as queer folks, transfolks,

55:44

fams. You know, like I shared

55:46

about how my brothers want to give me ship because

55:48

they're like, you're always with your friends. You never

55:51

come and see us, you know, but these straight men

55:53

will never understand the importance of

55:55

being seen by queer

55:57

folks, you know, by your chosen family.

56:00

So you know the fact that we're able

56:02

to we have to create

56:05

these separate families because our blood

56:07

relatives are blood family. Like, they

56:10

don't see us, they don't respect us, they

56:12

love us. The institution of

56:15

the nuclear family is designed

56:17

to affirm the cist man exactly

56:20

in that in that traditional

56:23

model of absolutely only, he is

56:25

a firmly yes, that's

56:27

just that's a home. Like you

56:29

know, families, family got to forgive

56:32

each other. No, actually, your family

56:34

could be the most toxic, the

56:36

most toxic thing that

56:38

you ever encounter, experience, have

56:40

to survive, absolutely,

56:44

right. So, like, not only do

56:46

we build these other families,

56:48

but oftentimes we build entire languages

56:51

separate from a family. I'm

56:53

thinking specifically of queer and trans people of

56:55

color, right, and the ball scene,

56:58

right, and we developed

57:00

like shade and reading right

57:03

and all these types of things that like

57:06

just had populations wouldn't understand.

57:09

Right, Yeah, specifically

57:12

for me, right when I when

57:14

I was a little queer brown kid um

57:17

and I was looking for ways to survive like

57:19

my oppressive like like not

57:21

only like my family situation, but like

57:23

my community. I found outlets,

57:26

right, and I found them through cheese Man. Right.

57:28

You couldn't. You couldn't promote like come over

57:30

here like closet a kid. Right.

57:33

It's a safe space, right because

57:35

the people would know about it, and then people

57:37

who are trying to hurt queer in terms people of

57:39

color would come and infiltrate it. Right,

57:41

So you have to be like you have to be you have

57:43

to be a cheese she's most so she's most sex

57:45

about it. Otherwise

57:48

it's for our safety, right, So Che's

57:50

Man oftentimes is used to protect

57:53

queer in terms people. Yeah,

57:56

yeah, absolutely, I think that that is a good

57:58

transition into the song that you that

58:00

you brought today, right because

58:03

there's like the language of it, you know.

58:06

Then I think we can tie into what you just said.

58:10

Yeah, so this is I guess are

58:12

we're exiting? Uh so,

58:15

I just before I go into the song,

58:17

I wanted to bring up like um

58:20

again follow me on Twitter and

58:22

g um Facebook

58:25

as queer tickin on Treese Man. If

58:27

you have a store art

58:29

to sell, use the hashtag to

58:32

x C I G and I'll

58:34

find you and I'll promote your art on my platforms

58:37

and your shop. Uh.

58:39

If you are reading UM

58:42

America Chavis Um, which

58:44

is a comic book by um, a

58:46

queer Latino writer Rivera for

58:49

Marvel, Um, use the hashtag make

58:51

mine Javis, and I'll

58:53

also promote you on Yeah, just

58:55

because I feel like we should promote um

58:58

queer and fans people of color who are doing a damn

59:00

thing. I have a question about that because

59:03

I would like to read this comic book. But

59:05

where does one buy it? Where does one buy

59:07

this comic? Um?

59:10

You can buy it online or I don't

59:12

at your local comic book shop. Okay,

59:15

I will look. Yeah that's

59:17

Oh, that's a whole other I can talk

59:19

about, like comic book shops and how they were safety

59:22

for like a little queer fan. There's

59:27

a comic book shop I know in

59:30

Southeast l A which you um

59:32

where y'all preside? Um. The

59:34

nearest one I think is in Bell Gardens, which

59:37

is why because I grew up in Southeast

59:39

A show send me the info

59:42

separate from

59:45

comics. It was. It was owned by a queer

59:47

woman back in the day. Yeah,

59:50

that was definitely my sanctuary. But again,

59:52

um, if you're reading America,

59:55

use the hashtag make my job as um.

59:58

That's support queen and trains people of color like in

1:00:00

mainstream media. Um. Yes, and

1:00:03

you have a song, another song for us,

1:00:05

so we're about to Yeah,

1:00:08

let's we can you know, we don't have to put a song right

1:00:10

away. We can have a discussion about

1:00:12

the Wonga. It's important.

1:00:15

He is very, very important to our communities.

1:00:17

And I feel like the discussion about code

1:00:19

switching a new languages right is

1:00:22

really important when discussing Wanga

1:00:24

in this upcoming song. Yes, yeah,

1:00:27

so there's so much to impact with Wanga. Um.

1:00:31

I consider him the patron saint

1:00:33

of sissy brown boys, right um,

1:00:37

because honestly, growing up like he's all I had,

1:00:39

Like I did not have anyone else tell

1:00:41

me that I can grow into an old age

1:00:43

as like someone who is not only queer

1:00:46

but also like sissy, right, like masculine

1:00:49

in any like like stretch

1:00:52

of the imagination. Right. Um.

1:00:55

So when he passed

1:00:57

away, there was a lot of um talk

1:01:00

about how he's not really queer, right

1:01:02

um. And that's because Kuanga

1:01:05

existed in this like intersection of cheese

1:01:07

man and queerness, right Um.

1:01:10

He was never like openly out about it,

1:01:12

right. Um, you had to

1:01:15

decipher what he was saying, what he was thinking

1:01:17

about UM and how he existed in

1:01:19

this world. Right. Um.

1:01:22

So when one of the biggest

1:01:25

place things people site when speaking

1:01:27

of Kwanga's um, sexuality,

1:01:30

UM and gender was his quote

1:01:33

like, right,

1:01:37

you know is in question? Right? And

1:01:39

he was, And that was basically him asking

1:01:42

not only um. It was like it was

1:01:44

like there was a dissonance. Right. It wasn't

1:01:46

only him asking people to stop

1:01:50

cheese man, it was also asking

1:01:52

people to assume things

1:01:54

about him. Right. It

1:01:57

was an invitation in some ways as

1:01:59

well. Response yes,

1:02:02

absolutely right. So when

1:02:04

he you know, when he passed away, there

1:02:06

was a lot of people I wrote like one of another

1:02:09

one of my popular threats on Huanga right

1:02:11

when we had to experience double trauma

1:02:14

as queer brown folks quere Latin nexus

1:02:16

queer after Latin nexus queer black

1:02:18

folks, right as not only where like

1:02:21

when posts happened, people were

1:02:23

reporting on it like this was this

1:02:25

was an ALGBT tragedy or this

1:02:28

was this was Latin X

1:02:30

tragedy. No, like very

1:02:32

few outlets initially were reporting on it

1:02:34

as both in Yeah,

1:02:37

so when if Fuanga passed away, it was the

1:02:39

same thing. And so again LGBT

1:02:41

Latin Exus after Latin Nexus, we had

1:02:44

to like fight to like be like no, this,

1:02:46

this is important to us, right.

1:02:49

And that was again because like Huanga never

1:02:51

cemented his identity as

1:02:54

queer because he didn't

1:02:56

he wanted to exist

1:02:59

as a lad as something. And

1:03:01

and like one of the things that we forget is that

1:03:03

legends are cheessment, right, Oh

1:03:06

my god, that's so true. Newes

1:03:12

legends exists because we passed it down verbally,

1:03:15

right, despite like you can read a

1:03:17

whole fucking Wikipedia article on funga,

1:03:19

but it don't means ship if you don't have like a whole

1:03:22

as background and somebody pushing

1:03:24

significance to Yeah. And it is

1:03:27

really interesting that that like a lot

1:03:29

of you know, Latin

1:03:32

x is Mexicano che chicken

1:03:34

x Is wanted to have a sort

1:03:36

of ownership over him

1:03:39

by denying that

1:03:41

he was queer. Yeah, which you

1:03:43

know we talked about in the last copy. Dittle, I

1:03:45

don't know in this copy did, but the last

1:03:47

recording is like it's still just another

1:03:49

way for folks to claim

1:03:52

to want to own to want to dictate

1:03:55

ownership possess a senbody.

1:03:58

You know, he was a very h a

1:04:00

queer person, you know, and

1:04:02

the fact that even after his controlling,

1:04:05

even after his death, they want to they want to own

1:04:07

him, right, these these men, I

1:04:09

mean you said in particular that there were folks

1:04:11

in your mentions being like, no,

1:04:13

stop it, like he was not gay, right,

1:04:17

Yes, um, because

1:04:19

if he's not queer, if he's not fan,

1:04:22

then all those tears, those his hiss

1:04:24

head man crying to his songs will

1:04:26

be validated because

1:04:30

everybody cried to hunta everybody.

1:04:33

Uh but yeah, So getting

1:04:35

into the song um, It's

1:04:38

Noah by Huang Gariel, and

1:04:41

in it he says mama right.

1:04:46

And the term the ambiente, which

1:04:49

was used by a lot of gay men

1:04:52

in the nineties specifically

1:04:54

um to signify that somebody was queer

1:04:56

or gay right. And

1:04:59

it does not be thing right. I said, like that guy

1:05:01

is down right, which

1:05:03

means that guy was queer. Right. And

1:05:06

if we want to look at Huanga as

1:05:08

specifically like as a queer subject,

1:05:11

right, we can look at his lyrics. Right,

1:05:13

people are people are often like well, he often sang

1:05:15

to feminine pronouns right to get

1:05:17

either right, yeah, right,

1:05:20

but we look at the language that like people Latin

1:05:23

exus queer Latin xus used specifically

1:05:26

gay queer men, right, We

1:05:29

often use like um feminine

1:05:31

pronouns, right, like a yeah four

1:05:33

other queer men right, or other

1:05:36

fans right. So ultimately

1:05:38

we can if we take that lend to

1:05:41

um Huanga's music, we can he

1:05:45

was like doing like the ultimate

1:05:47

like fem for fem like you

1:05:49

know Manifesto right

1:05:52

music that right, he was

1:05:54

sinking and crying and proclaiming

1:05:56

his love to other fans. And I think that's

1:05:59

one of the most beautiful in

1:06:01

this world really, and that's why he

1:06:04

is so important to me. And you know

1:06:06

what's interesting is it seems like you

1:06:08

know, celebrities, people in the public

1:06:10

eye, unethical

1:06:13

or negative cheeseman like gets

1:06:15

spilled about them all the time, right, Like, celebrities

1:06:18

get their most intimate stuff exposed

1:06:20

quite often, and it often has a lot

1:06:22

to do with like who they hang out with. Correct

1:06:25

me if I'm wrong, But I feel like Kwanga did not have

1:06:27

that type of experience with lots of negative

1:06:30

receipts and negative cheeseman and people were

1:06:32

not trying to expose him. He was sharing

1:06:34

his cheesement with trusted people who

1:06:37

did not expose him, right,

1:06:39

and even even his late

1:06:42

wife, his partner that he

1:06:44

was married to, that had she had children

1:06:46

with, Like, I'm sure she

1:06:48

knew everything, but did she like say

1:06:51

any of the you know, did she spill

1:06:53

any like thee spill

1:06:55

the free Holian. No she did not, you

1:06:57

know, she was like we were friends. He was

1:07:00

my you know, my husband. We had these children,

1:07:02

my partner. Yeah, exactly, So

1:07:05

yeah, I think what Mama says, it's true, Like,

1:07:08

no, he he knew who

1:07:10

he was spelling or who he was

1:07:12

telling the cheese man too. Yeah,

1:07:19

yeah, shout out. He's from seats,

1:07:22

which is where my my mom is from.

1:07:24

Right. Yeah. And in the last second

1:07:26

recording of this, I shared

1:07:28

how she went to one of his concerts in I

1:07:31

want to say the late nineties early two

1:07:34

thousand's and she saw him walking

1:07:36

up on stage and like

1:07:38

yelled at him and was like and

1:07:42

he blew her a kiss. That story,

1:07:44

Yeah, and she wasn't mourning for a very

1:07:46

long time, you know, probably still is like,

1:07:49

yeah, I mean, he he means so much

1:07:51

to our communities in multiple levels,

1:07:54

on multiple levels. Absolutely,

1:07:57

yea. So let's play the song. Let's

1:07:59

play the song, and thank

1:08:01

you for bearing with us and for being so patient.

1:08:03

Andrew Benne, thank you so much

1:08:06

for recording with us three times

1:08:10

and for being a

1:08:12

trooper. Yeah,

1:08:14

thank you so much for being patient with us,

1:08:16

for being willing to record with us. And the

1:08:19

next time you're here in l A. We will

1:08:21

have to do our second

1:08:23

old brunch and then our second installment

1:08:26

Thami in and then brunch some

1:08:28

bottomless yes, no

1:08:31

money so anyway,

1:08:33

so here's yeah. Thank you so much for

1:08:35

tuning into another local

1:08:38

radio, for tuning into browno our

1:08:40

We will catch you next time. Us