0:02

It's the Lockdown Podcast network, your team every Day. Let's talk to the

0:12

Bengals Director of Pro Scouting, Steve Ardesovich about the Bengals prep and plans for

0:17

this year's draft. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast,

0:29

part of the lockedwn podcast network, Your team every Day. What up,

0:35

Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals Podcast. I'm

0:39

your host, Jake Lisco. He's your host, James Rapine. We are

0:42

very excited for the NFL Draft here on Lockdow Bengals, and we're gonna have

0:48

a good one today with Steve in Today's episode brought to you by game Time,

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where you can save twenty dollars off your first purchase of tickets with promo

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code Locked on NFL in the game Time app into all the every days and

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those out there that make us your first listen. Hope you're excited as we

1:02

are. And James, No, you're excited too. Hell yeah, it's

1:04

Draft week. Let's go. It's here, We're ready to go. We

1:08

have Steve Rdisovich. You're gonna hear from him in just a second. Make

1:11

sure you subscribe on YouTube follow wherever you get your podcasts and more. Locked.

1:15

We're loaded and we are ready for Draft week. We hope you are

1:19

too, and you can get ready with this podcast. So without further ado,

1:23

Jake, by the way, shout out to Emily Parker for setting this

1:26

up. Steve Ridisovich, the Bengals director of pro scouting, joined us and

1:32

let's let's get to our conversation with him. Let's get into some twenty twenty

1:36

four draft talk with Steve Dussovich, the Bengals pro scouting director. And Steve,

1:42

when we look at this class, I know you're the pro scouting director.

1:46

You did a lot of work with free agency, but it's draft week.

1:48

So when we think about the depth and the strength of this class,

1:51

you hear a lot of it's a strong receiver class, it's a strong tackle

1:53

class. It's a strong this it's a strong that. When you think about

1:57

depth versus strength this class, where do you think is top heavy? Where's

2:01

the real depth and strength? From your perspective as the Bengals are looking at

2:06

it, So where's the real depth in this draft class? Just off the

2:13

top of my head, I would say you've got quality players in the receiver

2:17

group, guys that I think, you know, you'll get a good value

2:22

at, you know, in the middle of the rounds. Guys that you know, normal typically would be you know, top one or two round draft

2:30

picks. You may be able to get that guy in the third round. Other other spots where there might be some some good depth at defensive end.

2:37

I do think there's some quality players there in the middle of the draft as

2:40

well. Offensive line obviously, I know that you know how deep a tackle

2:50

group is. I do think it's a it's a good group there. Uh,

2:53

And there's some quality interior offensive lineman that I think will go in the

2:57

you know, second and third type round. So I just off the top

3:00

of my head, I would say those are the spots that stick out when

3:05

a position like offensive tackle, which is obviously coveted among NFL teams, and

3:09

you have a class like the one we have this year where it seems like

3:13

they're just going to fly off the board early, but that there is some

3:16

solid depth as well over the first couple of rounds at least is it are

3:23

you almost worried that it's going to fly off the board because you're picking eighteenth

3:27

and then you got to wait until pick forty nine. How do you balance

3:30

that because I think a lot of people just look at it and say,

3:32

oh, well, it's a deep tackle class. At the same time,

3:37

those guys, as you know, are coveted and are likely going to fly off the board. Yeah, I think in the first round you're going to

3:42

look to try to add a premier level player, talent guy that's going to

3:46

come in and be able to contribute right away. So wherever whatever spot that

3:52

hits on our roster, I think we'll look to fill it in in the

3:55

rounds following that. But I don't think there's ever a panic or a worry

4:00

if we don't if we don't go a certain position in the first round,

4:03

I think we feel good with the way we have things set up and structured.

4:08

After that, and we're going to talk a little bit about how you

4:11

have things set up and structured. You've, over the last couple of weeks

4:15

presumably been going through your meetings, setting your draft board, something that we

4:18

tried to do last week. We tried to get through just stacking the first

4:23

round, try to get into the second round, and it was a couple

4:26

of hours. It's an exhausting you know, back and forth process, trying

4:30

to figure out where the deal breakers are and all this stuff. How long

4:34

does it take you guys to set your board? Is that the last couple

4:39

of weeks leading into the draft finally culminating and bringing all that information together into

4:44

one board. Yeah, I would say, you know, during the season,

4:46

we're going into schools and we're trying to identify the prospects. We're trying

4:50

to put them in rounds, trying to dig up as much character and medical

4:54

information as we can. And then I would say, really no, let's

5:00

say, you know, after the All Star Games, you get a better

5:03

feel for the players, after spending time with them, interviewing them. February,

5:08

we come back, we gather more information. I would say, really

5:12

like this whole stacking process would begin end of March early April, where we're

5:17

starting to kind of, you know, put guys in a ranking order.

5:23

Is there is it debate style? Do you guys have debates? Is it

5:28

just discussion? Obviously not everyone's going to agree. I think that's it's It's

5:32

interesting because I think a lot of people picture it as the draft debates happening

5:38

on Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Obviously, that's not the case. You

5:42

guys are ironing out the board, so there aren't debates happening in real time

5:46

and you can just react to the board. So what are those conversations like

5:50

and is it are there debates? Does it get heated at times? You

5:57

know, I think everyone does a really good job of respecting everyone us his

6:00

opinion in the draft room. So I wouldn't say there's it never gets to

6:03

the level of being heated. But I do think we do have good debates

6:08

and and open discussions on players, and so I do think it's a combination

6:12

of both. But again I would I would never say that it gets heated

6:15

in there. I do think our guys do a good job of respecting,

6:19

you know, whether it's the coach's opinions or whoever it may be, And

6:24

the coaches do a good job of respecting our opinions and finding common ground on

6:29

players. So you don't have anyone literally standing on or banging on tables for

6:34

players. That's never happened. Good stories there, No, I mean,

6:41

like I said, definitely, there's definitely that that goes on. I just

6:46

just in terms of the preparation in the and the work up to it.

6:49

I would say it's more more of a discussion with some debate just in terms

6:55

of trying to get players in the right the right spot. You mentioned character

7:00

earlier, and I think character is certainly something that anytime the Zach Taylor era

7:06

especially comes up, it gets brought up in working with him, working with

7:11

the staff. Now, for as long as you have You're six, You're

7:15

six, You're five or six, something like that, is it? Do

7:19

you have an idea of of the guys that are going to fit, Not

7:23

not from a style football standpoint, because obviously I think you do, but

7:27

from a character standpoint all the off the field stuff. Is there synergy there,

7:30

because it does feel like that everyone's in sync when it comes to that.

7:34

Yeah, I would say there definitely is. I mean, it's been a focal part of our their offseason since Zaxman here. Uh. You know,

7:42

we really try to hit on on guys that love football, high energy

7:45

players, guys that live it, live the game. You know it are

7:50

going to be guys that can develop in the leaders on a roster. Today's

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breaking ties. As you're going through that stacking process and you're having the very

9:13

respectful everyone is trying to find common ground. Nobody's standing on tables discussions in

9:20

your draft rooms where we don't have any fun stories about Steve getting up and

9:24

standing on the table for anybody he loves unfortunately. What are the tiebreakers?

9:31

Do you guys have some objective, numeric or analytical kind of tiebreakers that come

9:37

in or do you guys hash out each of those individually? And are there

9:41

still a lot of subjective factors there where stacking a draft board is a lot

9:45

of art more than a science per se. Yeah, I would say it's

9:48

more of an art, But we do, I mean you do look at

9:52

you know, the analytics part of it. You do try to take an

9:56

account the character part of it. You try to take it a part of

9:58

the medical part of it. So there are different you know, tiebreakers obviously,

10:03

and a lot of it will fit to your style of scheme. You know, a certain player may fit the scheme, our scheme better than others

10:09

do. So you really have to take the whole player as a package and

10:11

try to compare them. If you're if you're comparing comparing one precision groups specifically,

10:18

how big of a factor It's a huge factor obviously is age. Age

10:22

is a factor, But with the COVID year and everything like that, a

10:26

lot of these players are older. I mean, when we were going down

10:30

the list, if they're not twenty three or going on twenty three or maybe

10:33

twenty four, it almost seemed like they were the outlier at twenty one.

10:39

And I know there are some twenty year old prospects in this class as well, But how do you balance that when the entire board is a bit older

10:46

than it would have been, say five, six years ago. Yeah,

10:50

that's a good question. I you know, I think a lot of it.

10:56

Certain positions take a little bit more time to develop, and guys physically

11:00

take a little bit more time to mature there. So for example, yeah,

11:05

a tackle that's twenty one, you're projecting what he's going to look like

11:11

compared to this tackle that's coming out that's twenty three in two years down the

11:16

line. So yeah, I mean a lot of it's you're just projecting a

11:20

younger player, whereas a twenty three year old tackle may be more physically ready

11:24

to go. Now, does this twenty one year old have more upside in

11:28

future years and ability to develop and assend beyond that twenty three. Sorry,

11:35

there are a couple of players speaking on experience and development in this class that

11:39

have a surprising amount of inexperience at the college level, A rare amount of

11:43

inexperience in terms of snaps played at the college level, A couple of tackles

11:48

that stand out, even some defensive tackles that stand out in that category.

11:54

Is that a different kind of projection than you maybe sometimes have to make where

11:58

it's not necessarily that there's raw technique on tape or something like that, but

12:03

it's just an inexperienced thing. It's a have they seen all these different looks

12:09

where maybe they're not getting a preponderance of NFL style opposition with the way the

12:15

college game is going anyway, But how does that inexperienced way into things as

12:18

you guys are evaluating players. I think that's also a part of part of

12:24

the when you're evaluating players at a certain position, that plays into that player's

12:31

package, So you can try to, you know, compare, say you're

12:35

comparing ten different players at the same position group and you feel they're all equal.

12:41

You know, that's that may be a little bit of a concern and

12:43

that and that you know, if if there's a player that hasn't played as

12:48

much, that may may play into it. So it's just it's a it

12:52

is a you know, slight red flag if there's a player that has doesn't

12:56

have as much playtime or experience as another player that may be just equal in

13:01

terms of talent. So yeah, I think you just again you just have

13:07

to evaluate the whole group when you identify in it. You mentioned receiver,

13:13

but you mentioned defensive ends or whatever position. From a depth standpoint, when

13:18

you identify in any draft that there's depth at a specific position, does it

13:24

impact how you would look at the early guys given if you think there are

13:28

more guys that are could give you value, say in round three or four,

13:33

or how does that impact things as you stack these guys in rank them.

13:37

And again I'm not necessarily talking about the positions you mentioned, but just

13:41

in general, Yeah, I mean people will view it differently. I have

13:46

my own opinion on it. Like I think in the first two rounds, you have to come away with a guy that's going to come in and start

13:52

and a guy that has the ability to be able to be a premier type

13:56

player. So I think there's different philosophies, they're different ways that guys around

14:01

the league view. But in my opinion, if you have a chance to

14:05

get a premiere, high level player, you know, obviously you try to

14:09

play the draft the draft board as much as well as you can. And

14:13

if you feel like there's depth at defensive end and that's a position you need,

14:18

and maybe you're going from a guy that you have graded at nine out

14:24

of ten and you can get this player that's a eight out of ten around

14:30

later, obviously you would prefer to do that, but you just never know

14:33

how it's going to shake out. There could be a run on defensive ends

14:37

between those two picks and you're left looking at a player that you had a

14:41

grade at a six out of ten. So I think in any situation,

14:46

you're trying to get a premier player with your first two picks. You mentioned

14:50

premier players. You mentioned also in an interview with Jeff Hobson. I think

14:54

earlier this month that they are more first round grades in the eighteen to twenty

14:58

five range this year than many years, and you've been at the back of

15:03

the first round, well the back of every round the last couple of years.

15:07

Picking a little bit earlier this year, how does that change the approach

15:09

in the first round or change anything? I guess in your process when you're

15:15

picking a little bit earlier and you see this class as one that has more

15:20

first round grades than you've seen for a few years, Yeah, I think

15:24

I think we feel good with where we're at, you know, obviously I

15:28

think it's it'll be, uh, We're going to end up with a player

15:31

that we all feel comfortable with, we all like, and that we all

15:33

feel like is going to be a contributor for us in year one. Along

15:37

those same lines, I feel like a lot of time after the pick has

15:43

made we hear you know, we had a first round grade on this guy

15:46

we got in the second round, or we had a first round grade on

15:48

this guy that couldn't believe he was available to us. Is that just how

15:52

much disparity do you think there is between you've been doing this for a while

15:56

now, between different draft boards. How often does that happen where you really see the players much later than you expect them to be available based on your

16:03

board. I would say a decent amount I would say, there's, you

16:07

know, a good majority of the league SE's you know, they all get

16:11

paid for what they do and they all see the players similarly. But I

16:15

would say there are you know, off the wall picks that obviously push some

16:18

other players down throughout the draft. But yeah, I would say for the

16:23

most part, we all, you know, we all feel good with the

16:26

way our board is said, and we'll get players to add a good value.

16:30

At some point, you mentioned first round in getting a starting level player

16:37

or obviously a contributor, someone that can come in and make an impact right

16:41

away. How hard was it reflecting and just looking back at the past few

16:48

drafts after obviously you have Joe Burrow and then to Higgins in twenty twenty.

16:52

After that you have Jamar Chase at five, and then you're moving all the

16:56

way back to pick thirty one when you took back so obviously pick twenty eight

17:00

last year. How hard is it to find those type of guys and identify

17:04

them that much later versus where you were a few years ago. Yeah,

17:10

I mean, obviously you're you can't project how those thirty one picks or however

17:17

it maybe are going to go. Obviously, if you have a better feel for it if you're picking in the top ten. So yeah, it's a

17:23

little bit more difficult to just predict when you're in the bottom bottom of the

17:26

first round, even really where we're about where we are, you know,

17:33

kind of after us, I think I think it gets you know, I

17:36

think there may be some guys that are second third round players that go,

17:41

you know after our pick. So but yeah, again it's it's always harder

17:45

to predict the later in the in the first round you get. This episode

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19:48

You talked about that with trying to find those guys at thirty one the last

19:52

couple of years, you can't project the way things are going to go,

19:56

whether it's free agency or the draft, you're out always pivoting, or even

20:00

when the coaches get guys on the practice field for the first time. Sometimes

20:03

you need to pivot when you realize something is a little bit different or has

20:06

gone a different way than you expected. So along those lines, can can

20:10

you talk about how the plan for Daxel maybe has changed from the time you

20:12

drafted him to what's going on now? Yeah, that'd probably be more more

20:17

question for the coaches and it would be for me, So I would steer

20:22

that towards No, that's fair. I think that's what what's interesting about Dax

20:30

is obviously he checks so many boxes from a prospect standpoint for sure, and

20:36

last year because he's been such a topic, that's why we have it on the list. Yeah, last year, he's like, at least for me

20:42

outside looking in, like three dropped interceptions where he gets himself in the right

20:47

spot, like the Jacksonville one comes to mind. There were a few others where he has five picks, one hundred and ten tackles and it's like,

20:52

oh, well, on paper, that's not a bad year for his first

20:56

year starting at safety. What what stood out about him as a prospect when

21:02

when you guys took him, because obviously he's versatile and can do all of

21:06

these things and they're still trying to figure out exactly how he's going to fit

21:11

just what you said, his versatility, you know, I think we felt

21:14

like obviously his position in college is a little bit different than where we've played

21:21

him. You know, he kind of played that Kyle Hamilton role, which

21:26

you know in Baltimore where they kind of use him as a nickel and blitz

21:29

him a decent amount. But we feel like he's you know, he can

21:33

he can hit on all three spots at safety, nickel and possibly placed an

21:37

outside corner, so you know, I think that was one of the most

21:41

attractive things about him was just physically he has everything in his body to be

21:45

a premier type player and be an elite player in the NFL. It's just

21:48

finding the right home for him that makes sense. Totally different question, switching

21:53

topics a little bit here, getting back to this year's draft and maybe reflecting

21:57

a little bit on the time you've had with Zach Taylor. Some evolutions in

22:02

process from your perspective, What are some big lessons learned for you recently or

22:07

maybe some things that you've realized and changed in your process, whether it's new

22:11

data becoming available or you know, advanced GPS stuff that has been refined over

22:18

the years, or new realizations. Are there big or notable process changes that

22:23

aren't giving away trade secrets that you can talk about. Yeah, I mean,

22:27

obviously analytics and all that's picked up significantly over the years, and I

22:33

think Sam and Elizabeth did a really good job of just incorporating that into our

22:37

process. So I would say that's something that we've advanced on a decent amount

22:41

over the last few years, but that that would probably be the biggest thing

22:45

that jumps out just in terms of the way things have kind of changed.

22:49

And when you're looking at certain players that have failed over the years and why

22:53

they have failed, you know, was it a physical trait they had something

22:59

that, you know, something that may be able to correlate with future years

23:02

drafts. How important just along those lines is athletic testing And I know you've

23:08

been asked that, so I'm going to try to take it a step forward.

23:12

If you have a player three players that have great film, obviously the

23:18

one that tests and has great film, that's the one that you're trying to

23:22

find because they check all the boxes. But what if someone just hits it

23:26

out of the park at the combine or at their pro day, but might

23:30

not have the best film versus someone that it doesn't test well and runs a

23:33

slower forty than you expect but looks fast on film or the GPS numbers track,

23:38

Like how tough is it now to balance those and how how much stock

23:45

do you put in testing versus not testing well? It's it's a tool,

23:49

right, so like we have, it's information that we can gather on players,

23:52

and it does help us make an evaluation on someone, but it's not

23:57

what we're primarily making Our evaluation. Well, the most important thing for us

24:02

is film and how a player plays on tape, and that's what we're we're

24:06

grading. We're not grading is forty times. We're not grading you know,

24:11

shuttle times. I mean that it is important. It's a tool, right,

24:15

It's something that helps kind of put this whole player's package together. And

24:19

at the end of the day, Yeah, you may be comparing apples to

24:22

apples, and maybe this guy's a little bit faster and a little bit more

24:26

athletic, but they're the same player. We feel the same about them on

24:29

tape, so maybe you give him the slight bump again, that may be

24:33

just a tiebreaker, but it's not what we're what we're we're evaluating players on

24:40

you know, they're testing numbers. I would say the film is the most

24:44

important thing. So when a guy doesn't test or opts out of testing,

24:48

and there have been some prominent first round, top of the first round prospects

24:52

in this draft, you have opted out of testing altogether, How does that

24:56

impact things? Where do your fans just make way more of a big deal

24:59

out of it than you guys do in the drafter, I think it depends

25:03

what the reason, you know, the reasoning behind it. And you know,

25:07

a player may may have medical issue that maybe led to them not being

25:14

able to test for it. But obviously, you know, if they're not

25:17

testing for certain reason, there's probably there's there's a reason to it, right,

25:21

I mean, they're they're uncomfortable with it, so I uh, yeah,

25:27

I mean you have to talk about it at least, it's something that

25:30

you talk about. But again that the film is the most important thing that

25:33

we focus on as far as you and you personally. I don't know,

25:41

Jake, if you have anything else on this year's draft, but I do I do want to ask you before we let you go about the GM Accelerator

25:45

program that you're a part of. What what has that been like? And

25:49

uh, I'm sure it's helped you grow. Oh, it was awesome.

25:53

It's a it was a great experience. Uh. They bring executives from from

25:59

around the league. They had speakers come talk to us, you know,

26:03

talk about leadership styles and things that work and how to present yourself in front

26:08

of a group. So Belinda Gardner put it together from the NFL League office.

26:14

She did a phenomenal job and it's also a really good networking opportunity just

26:18

to meet other people around the league that are in similar situations in there.

26:25

They were fortunate to get the invite there, so it was a really cool

26:29

experience, and again it was it was a one time event this last when

26:34

it was it right after this season, but I can't even remember that.

26:40

But yeah, it was a great event and very well run. Glad to

26:45

see you get to be a part of that and appreciate all the insight here

26:48

as we look ahead to the twenty twenty four NFL Draft just around the corner.

26:53

Steve, appreciate the time and insight as always and hope to talk to

26:59

you against it. Thank you, guys. I appreciate you guys having me

27:02

on really good stuff there from Steve Rodisovich, the Bengals director of pro scouting,

27:07

and Jake. Obviously, it's a huge week at pay Course Stadium.

27:11

I will be there and we will have you covered all week long. We

27:14

have Joe Goodbarry on tap this week and our predictive mock drafts and then it

27:18

is time for the twenty twenty four NFL Draft. We will have you covered.

27:22

So subscribe on YouTube, follow whever you get your podcasts, and for

27:26

Jake Lisco. I'm James Arpen. Thank you so much for listening to the

27:30

Lockdown Bengals podcast. Hey Prime Members, you can listen to this Luckdown podcast

27:38

add free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today