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Hey, what's up guys? My name is Gavin Shaw.

0:28

Today I'm joined by XJ, a contributor over at

0:31

Nick's Film School in the Hot Hand Podcast to

0:33

break down the Nick's loss to the Celtics. And

0:35

what if portends for a potential series between the

0:37

two teams? You

0:40

are Lockdown Nick's, your daily

0:42

New York Nick's podcast, part

0:44

of the Lockdown Podcast Network,

0:46

your team every day. Hey,

0:55

what's up guys? You a and

0:58

today's episode is br Make

1:01

every moment more ri $150

1:04

in bonus bets with a That's

1:09

150 bucks if your bet wins. Visit fandul.com/Lockdown

1:11

to get started. And I want to thank

1:13

you for making Lockdown Nick's your first listen

1:15

today and every day because we are now

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available on all platforms. So if you want

1:19

to be in every day or the steps

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you have to take are very simple. Be

1:23

sure to subscribe on YouTube and hit that

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notifications bell to ensure you never ever miss an episode

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and then be sure to do the same on your

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1:32

take things to the next level, subscribe to our subtext

1:34

so you can text us about the Knicks and we

1:36

can text you back. But who would you be texting?

1:38

I'm Gavin Shaw, a long time play by play broadcast.

1:40

We've been covering the NBA for about a decade now,

1:43

man, it has flown by. And for

1:45

a couple of years, a credentialed media member

1:47

covering the Phoenix Suns. And today I'm joined

1:49

by XJ. We've seen his work all over

1:51

the Knicks, Twitter sphere to talk about

1:53

this loss of the Boston salaries. We

1:56

decided to take more of a big picture approach and we'll get into it right

1:58

now on locked on Knicks. All right, guys. As

2:00

promised, we are joined by XJ the legend

2:02

over from Nick's film school who also co-hosts

2:04

the podcast Hot Hand Theory. XJ, welcome to

2:06

the show, man. This is a long, long

2:09

time in the making. I'm excited to get

2:11

to talk to you bummed that it was

2:13

not the best game to talk about. Hey,

2:16

Gavin, I'm just happy to be here with you

2:18

and chopping up Nick's basketball with you. I

2:21

don't mind talking about that Celtics game because I actually

2:23

think there are a lot of interesting insights to take

2:25

away in terms of projecting forward, how things may look

2:27

when we actually have a healthy roster to talk about.

2:29

So I think there's some stuff to take away from

2:31

it and just happy to be here and talk hoops

2:33

with you. You and I

2:35

were kind of going over a free show like how

2:37

are we going to structure this a little inside baseball,

2:40

but it's normally something we would do to end a

2:42

show to be like, all right, what can we take

2:44

away from this game? I was like, you know what,

2:46

like, that's really the only thing that matters. Because obviously,

2:48

if you didn't know, the Knicks were missing some key

2:50

pieces. And this one obviously still know Julius Randall, still

2:52

know G. Edinobi, still know Mitchell Robinson were able to

2:55

keep it close for a half despite that because Jalen

2:57

Brunson went nuclear but it didn't I

2:59

mean, I don't this might be revisionist history because

3:01

I was watching after the final score, but it

3:03

never felt sustainable. Like you just heard, oh, the

3:05

Celtics are shooting 66% didn't

3:08

feel like the Knicks had the matchups in the

3:10

second half. The Celtics, eight straight threes at one

3:12

point just completely ran away with it. Knicks cut

3:14

it to 10 or nine rather Celtics went on

3:16

a 10 hour run from there. It

3:18

was not a game that the Knicks ever felt

3:20

like they had any business winning. And

3:22

in my mind, like, that's what it should be when

3:24

the Knicks are missing three of their top six guys,

3:27

I personally think this might be sacrilegious to say on

3:29

a Knicks podcast, I think the Celtics are far and

3:31

away the best team in the league, I think it

3:33

is a total and

3:35

complete failure if they don't win the title this

3:37

year, they are beautifully built. Something

3:39

has to go horrifically wrong, like it seems to

3:41

most years in the playoffs for them for them

3:43

not to win all that being said xj with

3:46

with all the missing guys going up against a

3:48

great team, like what were what were sort of

3:50

your first thoughts when we started that conversation in

3:52

terms of like, all right, this is interesting. Like

3:55

I think this part carries over to a potential

3:57

conference finals conference semi finals match between the two

3:59

Teams. Yeah. I think the first

4:01

thing that I think of is it's interesting to

4:03

see what the Celtics wanna do defensively with the

4:06

next and to me it seems really clear it

4:08

they're obviously the big thing was at they were

4:10

in the steep drop against Branson. It's like are

4:12

you can play this drop in France you're gonna

4:14

get killed. You know Bransons a path a drop

4:16

killer as as as we might say but. Really?

4:19

They're okay with him doing all the things

4:21

that he wants to do as long as

4:23

he's not getting to the Ram and or

4:26

you know, kind of throwing know soft. ah

4:28

but then saw floaters off the ran for

4:30

Office of Rebounds. They're okay with Am pulling

4:32

up for three with a guide rear contesting.

4:34

They're okay with him getting his mid range

4:37

bag and so did seem to see yeah

4:39

because you're not going to ask where the

4:41

celtics with you know, contested threes and midrange

4:43

to like you, just going to beat them

4:45

that way Am. So I thought that that

4:47

was particularly interesting. I've had. Been watching the

4:50

Celtics really closely because as you said, gavin,

4:52

I think they're clearly and far and away

4:54

the best team in the league and there

4:56

And now I'm not a fan of Boston

4:58

as a city, but Eat out. They are

5:00

fun to watch efforts into the tower that

5:03

they put out there. it's and how beautifully

5:05

belt they are and also how well coached

5:07

they are. Honestly they they They give up

5:09

a ton of the reasons. But. It's really

5:11

by design is you're not going out to them.

5:14

And. They are really selective about which three

5:16

they give up, so they give a baton,

5:18

but not many corner threes and I really

5:20

like something. I also noticed about the game.

5:23

I really like how dark why in particular.

5:25

He's so smart about closing out depending on

5:27

the player like he closes out differently so

5:29

you'll see him do a soft close out

5:31

to like Josh heart in a corner but

5:33

then he'll hard close out to the even

5:35

tend to run him off the line on.

5:37

and so I think that the Knicks are

5:39

gonna need somebody like Josh hard to actually

5:41

see histories and actually may can't make them

5:43

and that will be a critical difference maker.

5:45

So. That. some of what

5:47

i saw really is just like okay

5:49

how are the celtics gonna play the

5:52

next in particularly brunson i'm at least

5:54

defensively that's what i saw an offensively

5:56

they seem to wanna really attack runs

5:58

in which makes a tennessee It's

6:00

kind of funny. I think we see a lot of

6:03

teams wait until like the fourth quarter to start it

6:05

like attacking a player defensively I'm not sure why we

6:07

see that so often but the Celtics

6:09

didn't really do that They were like hey, we're

6:11

gonna go after Brunson early and often We're

6:14

gonna make you try to either help and

6:16

try to recover to our beautifully spaced

6:18

out shooters all over the court or You're

6:21

gonna just let Brunson have to deal with

6:23

like Jalen Brown in the post or or

6:25

drew holiday in the post or something like that So

6:27

the Knicks are gonna have to find solutions for those

6:29

things regardless of who's healthy or not And

6:32

I think things will be easier with our full strength

6:34

roster, especially OGA and an OB in particular But those

6:36

are things that we're gonna have to try to find

6:38

solutions for regardless Yeah, a

6:40

lot of the same stuff stood out to me I

6:43

mean, I just thought I mean Derek white in drew

6:45

holiday like it just feels distinctly different

6:47

than going up against I would say any other

6:49

team in the NBA and like I thought it

6:51

ultimately like affected Dante DiVincenzo even more than Jalen

6:53

Brunson like even Chenzos first shot of the game

6:56

It's just it's just like a three that he's

6:58

been making like it was kind of like a

7:00

catch Like he was like slightly fading on it

7:02

like maybe a foot longer that he wanted but

7:04

like a reasonable shot and Derek white just like

7:07

his arm just seemed to go Forever and they

7:09

got this great contest on it and it's

7:11

this combination of white who's like probably maybe I'm

7:13

forgetting someone obvious But like probably like the best

7:15

shot blocking guard and they'd be like guard sized

7:17

guard and then drew holiday Who's like about as

7:19

good in screen navigation as anyone and and you

7:22

just said and you said a screen I drew

7:24

holiday And it's almost like it was never set

7:26

like I was really impressed like Hartenstein I actually

7:28

like stopped him like once or twice and that

7:30

was great Like maybe Mitch with his big body

7:32

can do a little bit of that But it

7:34

was just over and over again like holiday like

7:37

catching up and like again Like Brunson just has

7:39

such a deep bag Like he's still able to

7:41

get to a shot able to get to spots But

7:43

you can see him tire out like he can't I

7:45

mean part of that like lack of sustainability I mentioned

7:47

was from like Brunson accounting for I think it was

7:49

ultimately 18 of the Knicks first 21 points and

7:53

He was a total one-man offense and again

7:55

with Julius Randall You don't necessarily have that

7:57

concern the consumer Julius Randall Back is. The

8:00

Celtics played him in the first game. Is

8:02

he them Are they put Drew Holiday automated

8:04

seems like truly like F with his head

8:06

and like obviously still acclimating back from an

8:08

ankle injury but like he was like i'm

8:10

on like a it was like he reverted

8:12

back to base forms a dude man small

8:14

Julius killed entered like as I know Julius

8:16

do not feel the effects can be amazing

8:18

and it's It's like big big ears just

8:20

just froze a little bit on I I

8:22

think the way Randall if if if he

8:24

can get back into the for me at

8:26

earlier this season. it's a little bit different

8:29

but it is. It's. More so like or if

8:31

they're good a guard bronson like then based guide

8:33

you want to try to drop sixty for four

8:35

straight games on us, be our guest. like how

8:37

can the ancillary next take advantage and it even

8:39

after getting a bow yard and Burke said nominally

8:41

like shoring up their creation like that's where I

8:44

still have my hesitation to the i can you

8:46

actually like keep those guys on the floor defensively

8:48

like can they throw up at Randall that he

8:50

gets into a little bit of trouble and a

8:52

know be like where where he was playing really

8:54

well for got hurt was like creating shots in

8:56

the doing stuff that I got. I can't say

8:58

never done that. Rothys certainly. Wasn't doing that his

9:01

first ten or so games in the next. Like

9:03

does all that stuff translates against Boston and maybe

9:05

these questions are like for for problems in Boston?

9:07

Probably should beat the next. but in terms of

9:09

like New York actually having a chance like I

9:11

think those are sort of the biggest thing they

9:14

have to answer to base. It comes down to

9:16

it. Can you get creation outside of Bronson without

9:18

your defense falling apart. Our

9:20

guys we're going to pick up with Xj continually talk

9:22

my own he had a know be is absolutely essential

9:25

for the next by the the help ease version my

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11:49

I mean you touch on so many important

11:51

things. I'll start with that last one that

11:53

you just set off to me. I'm even

11:56

more so and in this may be blasphemous.

11:58

I am okay with that even more. The

12:00

Julius, Randle, Odeon and Ob will be the

12:02

key to our ability to compete. The next

12:04

ability to compete with the Celtics. I think

12:06

that. You. Are going to need

12:08

some crazy induce from Oceania? Know be I'm

12:11

in in the read: I says because you

12:13

are, You need Odeon and obese defense to

12:15

be able to protect him and insulate all

12:17

of these other week defenders that we have

12:20

to have on the court at various points

12:22

in time, particularly Branson and particularly either Boy

12:24

On or Randall right? Like I don't think

12:26

teams really see do as random as like

12:29

someone to target by it. would you know

12:31

that his overall impact on defense tends to

12:33

be on the lower side and lower than

12:36

what he should be actually capable. Of in

12:38

some of that is is off while the fan

12:40

some of up some of that is a effort

12:42

at times and hopefully we don't see you mean

12:44

are lower effort in the playoffs situation but at

12:46

the same time I think you need oceania know

12:49

we to recover and keep. ah you know keep

12:51

teams in front of in front of them and

12:53

then make up for a lot of the mistakes

12:55

that some of the other players may make. I

12:57

think the cool thing about Com O J and

13:00

A know be in particular is his ability to

13:02

play defense really well. From. A disadvantaged

13:04

position and I think that that's gonna

13:06

be T because he's gonna be in

13:08

a lot of disadvantages and be able

13:10

tab kind of erase those right? Like

13:12

either in close out situations, recovery situations

13:15

playing from behind situations and I think

13:17

oh geez, enemies is going to be

13:19

have to be all over the place

13:21

and a to be a monster and

13:23

to me that's going to be T.

13:26

What? You were saying about about

13:28

Why and Holiday Us that that

13:30

tandem of Why and Holiday is

13:32

relentless. There's no, there's no brakes

13:35

are those guys are all over

13:37

the place. I was looking at

13:39

some data earlier. Dark.

13:41

Why? I. Think they're Why

13:44

Is probably the celtics best perimeter defender and

13:46

it's a crazy to say that on a

13:48

team that has your holiday on it. But

13:51

Derek, what is one hundred and eighty fifth in

13:53

a league in fouls per thirty six minutes? So.

13:56

He does not foul. And. that's

13:58

despite taking on some the quickest and craft use guards

14:00

in the league on a nightly basis. And

14:02

if you look at it this way, per 36 minutes,

14:05

he's averaging more stocks, so more steals and blocks, at

14:07

2.5, then fouls at 2.3. Crazy.

14:11

He's not playing conservative defense. No, he's not playing

14:13

conservative. He's not like one of these guys you're

14:15

hiding on a wing in the corner. And he's

14:17

not going to draw. He's not going to give

14:19

up fouls because he's not really involved in the

14:22

actions. He's involved in a ton of actions. But

14:24

he's not fouling. He just is able to hold

14:26

his ground, stay on his feet. I

14:28

felt like he was the best defender on Brunson

14:30

by far in terms of individual defense. I felt

14:33

like Brunson got the better of everybody,

14:35

including Brown, including Holliday, including

14:37

Tatum at some points. And

14:40

one on Porzingis. On

14:42

Porzingis, absolutely, except

14:44

for Derek White, who is able to stay on the

14:46

ground. He's not going for any pump fakes. You're

14:49

not getting him out of position. He's going to

14:51

rear contest everything. He's going to be lurking with

14:53

those long arms. You can never just be like,

14:56

OK, I got a screen. I got rid

14:58

of that Derek White guy. He's out of

15:00

the play. No, he's lurking. And he's waiting.

15:03

And his timing's tremendous. So I

15:05

think that that tandem is going to

15:07

be really, really extremely difficult to contend

15:09

with. And so we will need

15:11

the spacing. And with that comes guys

15:13

like Boyan and Burks, who I know

15:16

Knicks fans are kind of fed up

15:19

with them already. And I

15:21

would definitely preach patience, because

15:23

I do think we're going to need their shooting in

15:25

terms of their spot up shooting to space out the

15:27

court. But in order for those guys

15:29

to be able to stay on the court, we're

15:31

going to need OG Ananobi to make up for

15:34

a lot of mistakes, to make up a lot

15:36

of ground, to play at a disadvantage, and constantly

15:38

be able to win despite that disadvantage defensively. So

15:41

that's kind of what I'm looking for. OG Ananobi, I think,

15:43

is the key to be able to really compete with this

15:45

Boston team. Yeah, and so again,

15:47

you took the word, excuse me, literally took

15:49

my words away. You took my breath away.

15:51

Great point. I wrote down

15:53

basically the same thing about OG in my notes, because

15:55

it was just all these different, just

15:58

like when the Celtics were getting eight threes. I was just kind of. tracking

16:00

like what they were doing like each time I was like,

16:02

all right, well, if they had an anobie to like the

16:04

solution is basically if an anobie could guard two guys at

16:06

once. Like, yeah, I just I

16:08

don't really know what you do. Like maybe

16:10

another team's like had a better solution someone

16:12

who like watches like 10 hours of like the

16:14

league every night, like we would give me an answer on

16:17

this. But like, what do you what do you do when

16:19

they have the Tatum KP like pick and pop and like

16:21

to stick with Tatum. And if you don't stick with Tatum,

16:23

he's like turning the corner going down for a dunk and

16:25

like either getting a dunk or spraying it out to someone

16:27

else for an open three. And then if you keep two

16:29

with him like he he threw the same exact pass. I

16:31

think it was the very first game of the season against

16:33

the Celtics where he just went behind his back and KP

16:35

is just hitting like, what was the stat like

16:37

his fourth in the NBA and threes from 27 plus

16:40

feet like it is absurd. And I

16:42

almost think like that move

16:44

for Porzingis like probably should

16:46

win the Celtics the title and like as

16:48

like I was I was advocating and like

16:50

it was like not not the most popular

16:52

opinion at the time but like for the

16:54

Knicks to like try and go for me

16:56

like maybe trade Mitchell Robinson for him and

16:58

like and you can just see what

17:00

a skeleton key is key he is and like of

17:02

course like there's always the risk that he gets hurt

17:05

and like the assets you give up to him like

17:07

you're like, all right, well, that's that's in the dust

17:09

now because he's not even playing. But

17:11

when he is out there like I just don't

17:13

think there are a lot of answers on either

17:15

end. It just sort of feels like over

17:17

and over again, like especially with the guys that

17:19

like the Knicks need two guys to do what

17:22

one guy on the Celtics can do. And that's

17:24

what I keep coming back to in this matchup.

17:26

But to your point, like if Santa no be

17:28

like can just play in rotation and fly around

17:30

like it's going to be tough.

17:32

But like there is a world where you could

17:34

beat this team for guys if Julie if Jalen

17:37

Brunson just has a series of his life if

17:39

Julius Randall has a series of his life, just

17:41

because you're going to have that rim protection. I

17:43

think an important thing to remember here is

17:45

or maybe not remember but no, I

17:48

don't think Isaiah Hardenstein is like particularly close to 100%

17:50

right now. Like I know he played a little bit

17:52

better this game made a few offensive agreements at that

17:54

one play where he went to Tatum and drew the

17:57

foul but it's just not the same level of like

18:00

like rabies fueled for a ferocity that

18:02

like we've basically seen from him since

18:04

the second half of last year and

18:06

you get Mitch on and like

18:08

obviously Mitch is like not the best match for Porzingis but

18:11

when Porzingis off the court like he can help you with

18:13

their offensive rebound and there are different ways you can hit

18:15

at the Celtics the Knicks just weren't able

18:17

to in this game and it's worth noting like Bojan just had

18:19

a terrible game shooting the basketball and

18:21

like it wasn't like the Celtics were like giving

18:23

him possible shots like he missed two different wide

18:26

open threes missed that layup at the end of

18:28

the first quarter. Burks was one for seven from

18:30

three and it's not saying like all right those

18:32

guys are going to like match the Celtics mono-e-mono

18:34

but this did feel sort of like the worst

18:37

case scenario for the Knicks outside of Jalen Brunson

18:39

having an incredible game and outside of the fact

18:41

that like you mentioned Josh Hart like shooting threes

18:43

is the key like he's been super aggressive and

18:46

by his standard super accurate since the all-star break

18:48

and tonight or last night was another example of

18:50

him I mean just playing fantastic ball.

18:53

Yeah so Gavin it was your turn to take my

18:56

breath away because and take my words away because I

18:58

said I said the surprisingly romantic

19:00

pod. It wasn't

19:03

expecting I would have thought but

19:06

I talked about this game with

19:08

GMAC Andrew Claudio on the Knicks film school

19:10

post game yesterday or after

19:14

the game and I made the

19:16

same exact point about Isaiah Hardenstein. You

19:18

know we talked about oh you know OG is not

19:20

there Randall's not there and we can't

19:23

forget like Hardenstein kind of is not

19:25

there as well like he is clearly

19:27

on you know still on some kind

19:29

of minutes restriction and he's

19:32

just not all there his lift is not

19:34

there again I mean I think you described

19:36

it in a perfect like imagery you know

19:38

he didn't have that rabies fueled ferocity I

19:40

think that was a great way to describe

19:42

it because that's the way he played and

19:44

he played such great defense that I genuinely

19:46

felt at points in the season like this

19:48

guy should be a candidate for defensive player

19:50

of the year like that I did not

19:52

feel like that was an overstatement so

19:55

we didn't get that Isaiah Hardenstein and we're going

19:57

to need that Isaiah Hardenstein but if you think

19:59

about having Hardenstein on the court and

20:02

then if Mitchell Robinson if

20:04

Mitchell Robinson gets back I think that changes

20:06

a lot as well being able to have

20:08

that flexibility for the for the lineup Something

20:11

I also noticed was that

20:13

boy on Bogdanovich played

20:15

his first minutes with Isaiah Hardenstein since

20:18

he's been a New York Nick in that game and

20:20

that's gonna be really important because boy

20:23

on Boy boy

20:25

on the defense is not good And

20:27

I'll be the first that man. I

20:29

didn't watch a ton of Detroit Pistons

20:31

basketball Earlier this

20:33

season so I you know I know

20:36

boy on defensive impact numbers were not

20:38

good And but I just want

20:40

to see like why is it an effort thing?

20:42

Is it a physical a bit ability thing? Why

20:45

is his defensive impact kind of low and

20:48

to me it seems like all

20:50

of the above to be honest There

20:52

were a couple plays. There was one that stood out to

20:55

me where You know the

20:57

Knicks were getting back in transition and Isaiah

20:59

Hardenstein is pointing for Bogdanovich to pick up

21:01

Jaylen Brown in the corner And

21:03

he says yelling you know get Brown get Brown and

21:05

then he does it for some reason and then I

21:08

heart's like okay I'll go pick him up and he

21:10

picks him up and then he gets blown by for

21:12

a dunk and then you look

21:14

to the right It's like Bogdanovich is

21:16

just like there as well He's like

21:18

didn't guard anyone didn't help out on

21:20

the drive and that that kind of

21:22

thing is like super frustrating But I

21:24

do want to give boy on some

21:26

some grace there because he has

21:29

only spent time Since he's been

21:31

a Nick with kind of like precious a

21:33

Chua and Jericho sins at the at the five And

21:36

even maybe a couple possessions with Taj Gibson

21:38

at the five like that's that's not a

21:41

combination That's not a winning combination for him

21:43

You're gonna you're gonna get his spacing but

21:45

you're gonna lose so much defensively if your

21:47

front line is like Boy on and precious

21:50

a Chua like that's not gonna work But

21:52

if we get to have more time with

21:54

Isaiah Hartenstein and potentially Mitchell Robinson I

21:57

think we'll be able to see some of his defensive

21:59

shortcomings be from those guys from

22:01

that rim protection that's going to be on the court and

22:04

that'll allow him to still have his positive impact

22:06

overall his positive net impact through the offensive side

22:08

of the ball So that's something else I've been

22:10

looking at as well But guys we're gonna wrap

22:12

things up with xj talking about some of the

22:14

lineups that would give the Knicks the best chance

22:16

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to say like a good neighbor, State Farm

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is there. Yeah,

24:11

I thought it was it was interesting

24:14

that like both in Detroit and I

24:17

think in like his very limited games on the Knicks,

24:19

like both teams were much better when

24:21

he was playing small forward instead of power forward.

24:23

And in terms of how Tom Pthivita wants to

24:25

play, like you like you can almost you can

24:27

generally with the exception of Josh Hart this year,

24:29

you can push everyone like a position down from

24:32

their natural position. And that's where they're going to

24:34

end up. And obviously, you've Mitch and I heart

24:36

like you're more likely to get to those lineups

24:38

where he is like a slightly smaller guy and

24:40

there's just there's just more bodies, more length around

24:42

the rim, like to like it's like the word

24:44

I've been using to. And

24:47

I think there was just like, I mean, even starting

24:49

from the first Celtics game, like I had like this

24:51

deep pit in my stomach with

24:53

the Knicks before the Ananobi trade like they just

24:55

weren't like big enough or physical enough at the

24:57

end of the day. And that that felt weird.

24:59

It was like, all right, it's like trading OB

25:01

top and shouldn't have met that. But even even

25:04

last year, like they were like like

25:06

even the game where they beat the Celtics were quickly

25:08

just went off like it just felt by like the

25:10

skin of their teeth. And you were just hoping like

25:12

every Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum three like, all right,

25:14

come on, just just rattle out, just rattle out. And

25:16

like every Nick Schaller, you're like, oh, amazing play, amazing

25:18

play. But it's just it's like I'll go back to

25:21

that word. It didn't feel sustainable. And it just felt

25:23

like what happened to the Cavs against the

25:25

Knicks was inevitably going to happen to the Knicks like

25:27

when they ran like into the Celtics. So even like

25:29

when they played the Pelicans earlier this year, it felt

25:31

that way. It felt that way the first time they

25:34

played the Timberwolves, or it was like a close game

25:36

for a half of the Timberwolves just ran away with

25:38

it. And Ananobi just with that on its head. And

25:41

we became the bullies. And it's why it's such

25:43

a shame that he wasn't like even beyond like

25:45

him and Randall together is like a different animal.

25:47

But just him being healthy for this game, like

25:51

you just could have learned so much more because I

25:53

wanted to see Like, is there any way

25:55

like the Knicks can make the Celtics like

25:57

feel them in that sense and poor Vegas

25:59

for like everything he does. well I give

26:01

up his is not a great rebounder and

26:04

like kinda next like as as much as

26:06

he would torture Mr Robinson commit torture him

26:08

a little bit and and the celtics are

26:10

the are long and like. They're certainly not

26:12

small but they're also not. Be.

26:15

Necessarily like a big enters the rim protection but

26:17

they're not big in terms of rebounding and I

26:19

just wonder if is a world where the next

26:21

in like mean like deeply deeply into Tibbs ball

26:23

and and extra know your guys into the numbers.

26:25

It's analytics like you could probably come back in

26:27

the well threes more than two in that that

26:29

seems to be like for better or worse your

26:31

Missoula like guiding philosophy to this whole self esteem

26:34

but that that like maybe two steaks and enough

26:36

variants that like the next can win some games

26:38

like really really ugly against. Yeah

26:40

and I think it's true. I think that's re

26:42

honestly an hour. I think the only issue with

26:44

a in my opinion is that and maybe this

26:46

is just where the Knicks are by. That.

26:48

Puts you in a position where you just

26:50

hoping that the celtics miss shots and you're

26:52

like if the celtics miss shots. In

26:55

forbes seven games we have a chance by.

26:57

It doesn't really put you in a power

26:59

position to take the series. it puts you

27:01

in a position that kind of hope that

27:03

they allow you to win the series based

27:05

on their pursuit access and to be honest

27:07

the celtics are so good that might be

27:09

the position that anybody who plays them is

27:11

in. it is might be there to so

27:14

good that it's like well what do we

27:16

give up would we give up to the

27:18

scene I'm you know if you wanna do

27:20

your help him recover scheme they're gonna get

27:22

open threes and we see they make open

27:24

threes so. Consistently. I mean you mentioned the

27:26

perusing is deep spacing. I think that that's

27:28

a incredible for them. If if there's any

27:31

spacing and to twenty seven feet from the

27:33

top of the key and he's knocking it

27:35

down like easily would you do I I

27:37

don't really see many answers and in our

27:40

on nada M B A Coach but the

27:42

M B A coach's don't seem have many

27:44

answers as well. How south the I haven't

27:46

moved to rephrase it like this like wolves

27:49

the most. Flexible. defensive line of

27:51

the knicks can put out there and i ask that

27:53

be they were my brain goes is like if the

27:55

next it's dispersion of just heart that can like yeah

27:57

forty eight percent from three and i like ice that

28:00

opens up lineups that just weren't tenable against the

28:02

Heat because it was so destructive to have Heart

28:04

on the floor passing up threes and like I

28:06

went like can you get to like Bronson,

28:09

Hart, OG, Randall and Mitchell I

28:11

Heart like to end games and and that

28:13

was like pretty unpalatable for me like and

28:15

I especially after Divan Chenzo cooked I'm like

28:17

what more does this guy have to do

28:20

but like watching this like I think it's

28:22

just more of a Heart series than it

28:24

is a Divan Chenzo yeah

28:27

I think that's an incredible point and and I

28:29

do want to shout out Josh Hart because I've

28:32

been pretty down on Josh Hart

28:34

so far this season it's just been like

28:36

not bringing the same level of intensity like

28:38

on a nightly basis and even when he

28:40

does it's like well the shooting's not there

28:43

so it's like last year

28:45

the reason why Josh Hart was so incredible is

28:47

because he did all the Josh Hart things and

28:49

shot great from three I mean at least towards

28:51

the end of the regular season and it's like

28:54

yeah if we have that Josh Hart that's a

28:56

super powered Josh Hart that is a complete

28:58

difference maker and I don't think he needs to shoot

29:00

whatever he did as a Nick you know once he

29:02

was traded to the Knicks and and spent the rest

29:04

of the regular season with them I think it was

29:06

like in the 40s in terms of percentages we

29:08

don't need a 40% from three Josh Hart we just need a

29:11

36-37% from

29:13

three Josh Hart who is down to shoot

29:15

open threes whether they're from the corner or

29:17

slightly above the break and

29:19

I think that that makes all the difference

29:21

because as you suggested Gavin like that gives

29:24

you so much lineup flexibility and when you

29:26

have Hart and you're able to put Hart

29:28

at the two that does change everything and you're only

29:30

able to do it if he's willing to take and

29:32

knock down threes and I

29:34

really actually think of it more as in terms of

29:36

what they can do with the bench with a bench

29:38

unit so I think of

29:41

are there situations where we can have

29:44

like let's say Deuce or Burks out

29:46

there then Hart at the two

29:49

OG and Boyan you know in the

29:51

front line with Hartenstein or Mitch like

29:53

I think that that would be the

29:56

perfect mix of offense and defense you

29:58

have enough creation to You

30:00

know to spare Bronson a few minutes and

30:03

you have enough spacing if Josh Hart is shooting Well

30:05

that you should be able to score with that lineup

30:07

and then defensively that line is gonna be really good

30:10

so I I think that

30:12

Josh Hart is really Critical in that way

30:14

and I'm glad you brought him up because

30:16

you know, he's gonna be Maximum

30:19

Josh Hart in the playoffs the energy is gonna

30:21

be there He's gonna be flying

30:23

in if you you know, kind of leave

30:25

him wide open from three he needs to

30:27

shoot those threes, but not only that when

30:29

you leave him wide open for three that gives him

30:31

a huge runway to Fly

30:33

in there and grab some offensive rebounds as well

30:36

Especially, you know if the Knicks are able to shoot

30:38

threes We're gonna get some of those long rebounds and

30:40

that's the Josh Hart specialty So yeah,

30:42

I think Josh Hart is a huge difference

30:44

maker along with OGN and OB Those might

30:46

be my two in terms of a Celtics

30:48

Knicks series If we get

30:50

Josh Hart who's able to shoot and does everything else

30:53

and if we get OGN and OB the version that

30:55

we saw You know before the injury. I think that

30:57

gives the Knicks a fighting chance Yeah,

30:59

and I think you can like to me That's

31:02

the series like we're like Tibbs wants to just

31:04

like like kind of batter down the encampments I

31:06

don't know that's a real phrase But it's just

31:08

some some military phrase words like we're putting everything

31:11

on lock like like we're only playing eight guys

31:13

Like I I like the idea of divan

31:16

cenzo playing backup point guard in that series

31:18

And maybe this is the wrong night to

31:20

make this point because I thought deuce was

31:22

like maybe the third best Nick in this

31:24

game I might be forgetting someone but like

31:27

he he was awesome Like I loved like

31:29

him getting Jason Tatum on him and

31:31

like last year that would have been like

31:33

the quickest like I am Passing this ball

31:35

to like anyone else like even

31:38

if it's to the other team Like I'm not letting

31:40

this guy near me and he just kind of like

31:42

surveyed him up and like like barbecued I hit his

31:44

head up in his face. It's like a little father-son

31:46

violence at least at least from a name Perspective like

31:48

it and then like there was another possession We're like

31:51

through holiday like to your point on like on Derek

31:53

white like knowing the scouting report like Drew holiday Like

31:55

had this great closeout on on

31:57

deuce McBride like knowing he wants to shoot

31:59

that corner or three and induced panicked and traveled.

32:01

And you heard Tom Phebito just scream it in

32:03

like, shoot the ball. And then next possession, like

32:05

hop step into a three. Like it was a

32:07

solid game for juice. So I don't want to

32:09

totally take him off the table, especially because of

32:11

like just how scrappy is defensively. But in terms

32:14

of just being a little bit bigger, like, like

32:16

we just watched like, um, Dante

32:18

Di Vincenzo, like kind of battle for his manhood

32:20

over and over again in Stalyn Brown. And the

32:22

idea of like him, like instead getting to like

32:24

battle, like Derek white in like a second unit,

32:26

like, I think he can make a difference there

32:28

and like, and provide spacing and like provide creation

32:30

and, and with even Shienza, like it just feels

32:32

like the margins in terms of his ability to

32:34

score at the room are so good because it's

32:36

just not an area where he's been particularly good

32:38

in his career. And then over this recent like

32:41

hot stretch, like, like all of a sudden, like

32:43

he he's taking advantage of the fact that probably

32:45

for the first time in his NBA career, like

32:47

teams are guarding him 27 feet now and like

32:49

getting into the lane and finishing, but tonight you

32:51

could, you could see like over and over again,

32:53

like him, like, like Tatum swatting his shot or

32:56

him, like, by taking like this flying like runner,

32:58

like underhand runner, just because I'm like Porzingis

33:00

was like in the vicinity at the basket. And

33:02

it just like, it doesn't take much for him

33:04

to go from an efficient guy at the rim

33:06

to an inefficient guy at the rim, especially because

33:08

he's just not a, he's almost the reverse of

33:10

Quentin Grimes or like he is looking to shoot

33:12

every time and he's just not a great passer.

33:14

One point misprecious at you a wide open under

33:17

the basket. That was a great point. Um, your

33:19

fellow KFS guy, DJ Zulo made when he was

33:21

on the pod. Um, but I, I

33:23

say all that to say like, like when

33:25

the margins get smaller, like you just have

33:27

to kind of shift your rotation and shift

33:29

the roles of certain guys and it

33:31

feels like hearts just defensively anyways, like

33:33

a little bit more likely to hang.

33:36

Um, and, uh, I'm trying to remember it at a point

33:38

I wanted to make about Julius Randall, but I'll throw it

33:40

back to you. XJ because I cannot come up with it.

33:43

No, that's all good. And if you think of it, jump in,

33:45

but I, I think that's, I think that's well said and it's

33:47

probably true. Um, I'm a

33:49

little bit higher end uses flexibility. Uh, in

33:52

terms of defensively point of attack, defense and

33:54

ability to knock down shots, but to

33:57

me, it's more of like, do I really

33:59

necessarily want. Alec Burke's playing instead

34:01

of Deuce McBride, I'd be fine

34:03

with both of them kind of being benched. And I

34:05

like the idea, not bench, but not playing very much

34:08

in an important playoff series. But I do like the

34:10

idea of Di Vincenzo potentially stepping

34:12

up as that backup point guard, especially

34:14

when you have OG and Nobie on the

34:16

court and maybe Julius Randall when you have

34:18

enough creation, you can kind of put it

34:20

all together and say, hey, we'll have enough

34:22

to make an offense work with these guys.

34:25

I think that that would work potentially really well.

34:27

So I do like that. To your

34:29

point about kind of, Tibbs, I

34:33

forget the phrase that you used, that we weren't sure if it was

34:35

a real phrase or not. I don't think it was. I don't think

34:37

it was. No,

34:39

I think it could be true.

34:42

But this is from an

34:44

analytics standpoint. I am concerned,

34:46

and I was last year,

34:48

about their approach with the

34:50

offensive rebound, rebounding strategy. And

34:54

it's something I kind of, I want to say I

34:56

kind of sounded the alarms on last year, pretty early

34:58

in the season. First, I wanted to

35:00

give them a lot of credit for doing it,

35:02

for being able to manufacture a really

35:05

effective offense without being efficient at

35:07

shooting the basketball. That's incredible to

35:09

do. And they did it extremely well

35:11

and played to the strengths of the team that they

35:14

had. But I do want to say,

35:16

so for instance, the last three of the last four

35:18

games the Knicks have played, they

35:21

have an offensive rebound rate of over

35:23

41%, which is

35:25

crazy. 41.5% against Houston, 42.5%

35:29

against Orlando, and

35:33

41% against Boston. Those are

35:35

three losses. And I know it's, I

35:38

know that we clearly the team

35:40

is not at full strength, but those

35:42

resulted in kind of like mediocre offensive

35:44

performances. The defense has not been

35:46

good without OGN and OB. And so that's something

35:49

to consider. But I also think that in

35:51

this playoff context, we saw last year, they

35:54

went with that same approach. We're going to get the

35:56

offensive rebounds. We're going to win the possession battle.

35:58

We're going to get a bunch of shots. out

36:00

shoot you in terms of our shot attempts. But

36:03

it doesn't always work out and lead to really

36:05

good offenses, and especially in a playoff context. So

36:07

I'm a little concerned about that, and that's why

36:09

I was happy that we got a guy like

36:11

Boyan Bogdanovich, who I think is gonna be able

36:13

to change that dynamic. We're gonna be able to

36:16

actually score the basketball on their first shot attempt

36:18

instead of needing two or three to score. So

36:21

I think there's a balance there. They're gonna have

36:23

to win the offensive rebounding battle against the Celtics.

36:25

There's no question. They have to do that if

36:28

they don't forget about it. It's a sweep. But

36:31

they're gonna have to do that and more. And so

36:33

you're gonna need the shooting to be able to execute

36:35

that well as well. Yeah, no,

36:37

and it's sort

36:39

of in my question all season, like especially

36:42

before the OG trade, like they

36:44

were great on offense again, but we saw this show

36:46

last year where they were third best offense in the

36:48

NBA, second worst offense in the

36:50

playoffs. And it's just like, how much more

36:52

sustainable is it? And so much of it

36:54

comes down to Julius Randall just being close

36:57

to the same guy. And I kind of

36:59

think Boston in some ways is like just

37:01

like the worst possible matchup for him. And

37:03

they can, like, even if Randall's just a

37:05

substantially better player and it's substantially better place,

37:07

like they can just replicate a lot of

37:09

what the Hawks did against him and better.

37:12

And like his decision-making is gonna have to

37:14

be so good. So on point, because you

37:16

just have these split second windows against them.

37:19

And maybe there's a world where like, all right,

37:21

if they're gonna put like Jason Tatum on him,

37:24

like he can just put him under the rim.

37:26

But again, Holiday did such a good job. And

37:28

with Porzingis looming there, it's really tough. The thesis

37:30

of this podcast is the Celtics are really good.

37:32

Hopefully the Knicks at the end of the day

37:34

will not have to face them. But if they

37:36

did, I think we came up with some suggestions

37:38

that could help. But XJ, before I let you

37:40

go, man, can you let everyone know where they

37:42

can find all your great work? Yeah,

37:45

yeah, I appreciate it, Gavin. Appreciate you guys having me on.

37:48

I do work for Knicks Film

37:50

School. I have a

37:52

podcast on there called Casual Fridays

37:54

with my colleagues, Mensa and Sean

37:56

with the W. Those

37:59

drop every Friday. as long as the Knicks don't

38:01

play on Thursday. Apparently this season, the Knicks play every

38:03

Thursday. So they've been a little few and far between,

38:05

but you can catch us on there. And

38:08

also, I have an independent podcast that I

38:10

do with my buddy Jeff or Frank Barrett

38:12

on Twitter. It's called Hot Hand Theory. Really

38:15

all about looking at the game in some

38:17

non-traditional ways, breaking down

38:19

the game from an analytical perspective. And

38:22

yeah, we just try to make data

38:24

more interesting and more fun

38:26

through the use of analogies, hypotheticals,

38:28

theorizing about some stuff that might

38:30

never happen, but would be fun

38:32

to imagine, and combining that

38:34

with metrics and film studies. So that's what we do over

38:36

there. A must listen

38:38

will absolutely make you a smarter Knicks, smarter

38:41

NBA fan. And I like that it's not

38:43

all analytics, like if analytics and film and

38:45

how they interact. And to me, that's the

38:47

best way to cover the game. So I

38:49

love what you guys do. Love what everyone

38:51

at the KFS crew does. And

38:53

hopefully, hopefully the Knicks are incorporating some of this stuff

38:55

as well. Seems like they are a little smarter than

38:57

the Knicks teams that pass them. But until next time,

39:00

he's XK. I'm Gav, and we'll talk to you soon

39:02

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