0:03

So they came down in the ambulance

0:06

when they came to talk. They were like, Well, we're not

0:08

too sure It's a grey area. Like, how

0:11

can this be grey? There's a ball of her

0:13

hair beside her and she'd been cutting

0:15

her hair. We're concerned she's mentally not

0:18

well. We do need help. They did take her

0:20

away. And I'm telling you, it was heartbreaking

0:22

because she was trying to run away from them

0:25

and they were grabbing her by her pants

0:27

and she was fighting. Finally,

0:29

they got her in the ambulance. So

0:31

she went to Surrey Memorial Hospital for

0:33

two months. And in the emergency, when

0:36

they took her in, she was screaming at

0:38

us, saying that I'll never talk

0:40

to you girls ever again,

0:42

like me yelling. We were just making sure she

0:44

was going to be okay.

0:55

Well, situations like this are incredibly

0:58

hard to imagine having to call the police

1:00

or an ambulance in this case to have your

1:02

loved one committed to a psychiatric facility

1:04

for their own safety or for the safety

1:06

of others, all with the hope of

1:08

getting them the treatment they need

1:10

and deserve. It's called

1:13

involuntary admission and treatment, and

1:15

it's a key part of the B.C. Mental Health

1:17

Act. The B.C. Mental Health Act

1:19

provides guidelines on how to admit and

1:21

treat people who are experiencing

1:23

a serious mental health crisis.

1:26

Untreated mental illnesses can cause a person

1:29

to experience any nausea, which

1:31

means they lose insight into the fact

1:34

that they are ill and will not

1:36

accept voluntary treatment even

1:38

when their illness may be causing harm to them

1:41

or to others. My

1:43

name is Faydra Aldridge and we're kicking off

1:45

the third season of Look Again: Mental

1:48

Illness Re-Examined, a podcast

1:50

about mental illness brought to you by the B.C. Schizophrenia

1:52

Society and other B.C. partner

1:55

organizations. Today we

1:57

are speaking with Vanessa Nelson. Vanessa

2:00

is a regional educator for the BC Schizophrenia

2:02

Society in the Okanagan and she has a very

2:05

personal connection to this topic. Vanessa's

2:07

daughter, Mira was diagnosed with

2:10

schizophrenia at the age of 18

2:12

and is now 22. And

2:14

during these years, Mira has

2:16

been involuntarily detained

2:18

under the B.C. Mental Health Act multiple

2:21

times. Vanessa, thank

2:23

you for being here today to share your story

2:25

with us. Welcome to the podcast.

2:28

Thank you very much.

2:30

So, Vanessa, let's talk about Mira

2:32

and how mental illness

2:34

has affected her life and

2:37

your life.

2:39

To say that it's been a nightmare is an understatement.

2:42

It's affected us at every level. This

2:45

is truly one of the worst illnesses

2:47

that I've ever witnessed. And

2:50

it's been embarrassing. It's been

2:53

heart wrenching and life changing. It's

2:56

been a constant emergency situation

2:58

for the last three years. The amount of hospitalisations

3:01

that have happened, the very public

3:04

breakdowns. Everyone in the community

3:06

knows that something's wrong.

3:09

And it's been horrible

3:11

for her. Horrible for the

3:13

whole family. There really are no words

3:16

to describe the confusion and

3:19

how unrealistic it seems

3:21

that all of this happened. And

3:23

I think it's so taboo to

3:26

tell members of the community

3:28

that, oh, she's got schizophrenia.

3:30

It's a very feared term

3:32

when a family gets a diagnosis of cancer.

3:35

They're wrapped up in blankets and brought casseroles.

3:38

And when schizophrenia happens, nobody

3:41

wants to talk to you. Nobody

3:43

wants to discuss it.

3:45

Like you said, there are no words. So

3:47

thank you for sharing that. I know you could

3:49

never summarize what it's like to

3:52

see your daughter experiencing psychosis,

3:55

but can you just give us a picture of

3:57

what some of her symptoms were and what you

3:59

saw your daughter go through.

4:01

At the onset? She wasn't even diagnosed

4:03

at the time. We had no clue what was going

4:05

on. It was so far outside

4:07

of my experience that

4:10

I didn't even know what to do and the hell

4:12

that erupted. She really was

4:14

not in her right mind. She was in a completely

4:17

delusional state and

4:20

had to call the cops. She

4:22

waffles between different personalities

4:24

and different moods like

4:26

lightning. So one second

4:29

she'll be very manic

4:31

and squealing. You

4:33

can actually hear her laughter blocks

4:35

away and it makes

4:37

the hair on your body just stand

4:40

up because it is so

4:42

undeniably unhinged. She

4:44

gets very angry at

4:47

the drop of a pin. Often

4:49

times in conversation, she's so scattered

4:51

that she's jumping between all

4:53

of those different emotions

4:56

all at once. A lot of

4:58

religious jargon just

5:00

spewing out of her mouth and

5:03

just wild accusations against

5:05

everyone. She did not know she was

5:07

mentally ill. She had an a signature. She

5:09

started drinking heavily. Really

5:12

coping with marijuana. Just the cleanliness,

5:15

the change in her hygiene. She

5:17

started having hallucinations,

5:20

accusing family members all

5:22

around her of atrocious crimes.

5:25

She thought we were trying to kill her. The paranoia

5:28

was so confusing to

5:30

have to hear because she's

5:32

always been very smart, very concise

5:35

with her speech. But she started

5:37

getting very disorganized, not

5:39

understanding what was going

5:41

on around her.

5:43

Let's go back. And how did she

5:45

finally go from that psychotic

5:47

state and being placed

5:49

in a hospital?

5:50

Well, she had a suicide attempt, so

5:54

they took her to the hospital. Then she

5:56

was in there for a couple of weeks

5:58

that time. There were so many

6:00

emergency calls that had to be made at

6:03

the onset of her illness that

6:05

it's hard to even remember sometimes

6:07

because it was all so

6:09

filled with trauma.

6:11

Wow. So your daughter was

6:14

taken into hospital. She didn't want

6:16

to go. How did she respond

6:19

to that?

6:19

Oh, it was hard. I mean, throughout

6:22

the hospitalization, she tried to

6:25

escape. They had to lock her up in

6:27

solitary confinement in

6:29

what essentially was a cell.

6:32

So there were lots of moments where

6:34

she wasn't treated with the care that

6:36

somebody who was very ill should receive.

6:39

And that's not on any of the

6:42

lovely professionals that have

6:44

worked pretty much around the clock to try

6:46

and save her life and to get her

6:48

healthy. What else do you do? So I

6:50

understand why she tried so hard to get out.

6:53

It varies, right? Sometimes

6:55

she knows she needs to go to the hospital and

6:58

has been very willing to check herself

7:01

in if she feels unsafe. But a

7:03

lot of times she's definitely taken

7:05

and against her will. And those times have

7:07

involved police. They've involved

7:09

community members, too. So

7:11

a lot of times when she had her breakdowns,

7:14

they would have been in public places. The

7:16

shop owner has called in on her

7:18

and have gotten calls from restaurants

7:21

saying, hey, we had to call the ambulance

7:24

for your daughter. It's been a community

7:26

wide endeavour to get to keep

7:28

this kid safe. I'm super lucky

7:30

because she does have a lot of people

7:33

watching out for her who do care.

7:35

It takes a village, doesn't it, Vanessa?

7:37

Oh, definitely.

7:39

Now, some provinces don't allow

7:42

for involuntary treatment. Obviously,

7:44

things didn't go as you would hoped or

7:46

your daughter would have hoped. But what do

7:48

you think would have happened if your daughter had

7:50

not received involuntary

7:53

treatment?

7:54

She would not be alive. Flat

7:56

out without the involuntary treatment,

7:58

without the medication, without

8:01

having her kept in a safe place,

8:04

she simply wouldn't be alive. And

8:06

in this past psychosis that she's

8:08

had, she was just recently

8:10

put under the Mental Health Act again. We

8:13

almost lost her so many times. I

8:15

can't even count how many times she was in the hospital

8:18

and how many phone calls I received

8:20

from the police in the middle of the night.

8:22

How many texts from her mental health

8:24

team. And it's been terrifying.

8:27

And the reason that she went into psychosis

8:30

the second time to such an extent

8:32

was because she was taken off of the Mental

8:34

Health Act and so

8:36

was no longer required to take her medication.

8:39

And as soon as she went off

8:41

that medication, she went into an immediate,

8:44

deep, terrifying psychosis.

8:46

Now, you had said that you were receiving texts

8:48

from the police and the mental health team

8:51

and other organisations within the community.

8:53

What did they tell you in those texts?

8:56

Very little because of confidentiality,

8:58

Right. I got a lot more information when

9:00

she was younger. So

9:03

during her first psychosis, people were still

9:05

giving me information. Now, when

9:08

she's ill, she doesn't want anyone to talk to

9:10

me. They're very bound by confidentiality,

9:13

at least with the mental health team in the hospital.

9:16

The community members are not so bound by confidentiality.

9:19

So that's how I've been getting my information.

9:22

It's been terrifying. And it's terrifying

9:24

for her, too. She doesn't know what's

9:27

happening to her a lot of the time right

9:29

now.

9:29

If she doesn't recognize she's ill, why

9:32

would she voluntarily get treatment

9:34

for something in her mind she doesn't have?

9:38

Oh, exactly. Trying to get her

9:40

to accept treatment or accept medication

9:43

when she's in that space, when she won't

9:45

even talk to anybody is impossible.

9:47

I'm deeply grateful for the fact that the Mental

9:49

Health Act exists

9:52

and that she has been put on it, because

9:54

otherwise I would never see my daughter

9:56

as who she is beyond

9:59

the illness.

9:59

Now, when your daughter is

10:02

taken in, receives treatment, what

10:05

happens when she gets out of hospital?

10:07

Typically between February

10:09

and now, I would say she's probably

10:12

been taken in and released 20

10:14

times. They don't keep her for long because

10:18

she refuses treatment. And it

10:20

took a really long time to actually

10:22

get her put back on the Mental Health Act. So

10:25

she would just be released right into the streets.

10:28

And because she went into such a severe

10:30

psychosis, she lost her jobs,

10:33

she lost her apartment,

10:35

nobody would take her in because

10:37

once again, schizophrenia, she

10:40

doesn't qualify for any

10:42

of the community housing situations

10:46

because of her mental illness. So

10:49

it's been horrific. When she was released

10:51

from the hospital, medicated

10:53

the first time and started doing well,

10:56

building her life back together, making

10:59

about a million apologies, it's very

11:01

hard when she comes out of a psychosis because

11:04

all of the guilt and shame and

11:08

tough conversations that she has to have

11:10

with everybody she knows and everybody

11:12

she's encountered has been such

11:14

a tough road for her. And this time,

11:16

especially because she ended

11:18

up going viral on TikTok. We

11:21

were walking down the street the other day and

11:23

she was looking beautiful

11:25

for the first time in a very long time.

11:28

And some jerk rolled

11:30

down his window and started laughing and

11:32

pointing at her. And

11:35

it was just the most heartbreaking

11:38

moment. And she has

11:40

to live through that on a nearly

11:43

daily basis. So it's

11:45

having those tough conversations with her.

11:48

Like, yes, people have seen you at your worst.

11:51

You can either run or you can

11:53

stick around and show them your best because

11:56

she is amazing. She's one of the most

11:58

gifted poets I know. She works

12:00

hard. She is incredibly

12:02

resourceful. I just have to have faith that

12:05

she's going to come out of this again completely

12:07

and hopefully not get so

12:10

sick again. To tell you the truth, I didn't think

12:12

she would get so sick again. So my hopes

12:14

were quite dashed when she went into

12:16

this psychosis because she

12:18

was doing much better.

12:20

And where is your daughter today, Vanessa?

12:23

She has temporary housing

12:26

at a family member's

12:28

home while they're away for summer. I know

12:30

she is supported by a 24

12:33

hour mental health team and

12:35

they check on her every day.

12:38

You're listening to Look Again: Mental Illness

12:40

Re-Examined a podcast brought to

12:43

you by the B.C. Schizophrenia Society

12:45

and by partner organizations. I'm

12:47

your host, Faydra Aldridge. This

12:50

podcast would not be possible without

12:52

the support of the community. From

12:54

the bottom of our hearts, we want to thank

12:56

you for caring about serious mental

12:58

illness and everything that's around it.

13:01

Together, we truly can make a difference.

13:05

Welcome back to Look Again. Mental Illness

13:07

Re-examined. In this episode, we're talking

13:09

to Vanessa about her daughter's experience

13:12

with involuntary psychiatric

13:14

treatment due to schizophrenia. But

13:17

before we continue and talk more about

13:19

the B.C. Mental Health Act, let's listen

13:21

to this clip between two people

13:23

sharing their experiences with

13:26

involuntary treatment.

13:31

And you kind of treat it like someone that that

13:33

can only wear hospital clothes. And it's

13:36

kind of hard. But at the same time, too,

13:38

every time I had a psych admission, I

13:40

come out doing much better. The key

13:42

part for my recovery was that I had to

13:44

get sober, that I can't keep telling

13:46

myself that dropping the Xanax,

13:48

dropping mushrooms, dropping

13:51

pot and hash and all these drugs

13:53

and alcohol that was really helping

13:55

me. So involuntary admissions

13:58

to psych was a godsend

14:00

for me because that got me to

14:02

get stable again.

14:04

For me, it was I think it was my

14:06

first time when I was deep in psychosis.

14:09

So I was 23 and yeah, I

14:12

don't really remember a whole lot, but

14:14

I do remember they handled it quite well.

14:16

The involuntary admittance.

14:18

I was pretty easygoing. Like

14:20

I, I kind of knew that I had

14:22

to go, but I didn't want to be there in

14:25

any way, shape or form. So

14:27

they kept me for quite a while. I wanted to

14:29

leave every single day. It's like prison. It

14:31

really feels like prison. I mean, I've never been to

14:33

prison, so I can't necessarily say,

14:35

but I've been to prison. It's. Yeah,

14:37

it's like that. Yeah.

14:40

Yeah. Okay. Well, that's reassuring. Thank

14:42

you. But

14:47

yeah, it really is. Is

14:50

a truly unenjoyable

14:52

experience.

14:56

Whoo! That was pretty powerful. Vanessa

14:58

So after hearing that clip, how

15:00

does that compare to your

15:02

daughter's experience when she was

15:04

taken into hospital under

15:07

the Mental Health Act?

15:08

Oh, yeah. Very similar. It really

15:10

is like prison. She was stripped down

15:13

and sprayed down and

15:15

put by herself in a cell because she

15:17

was a danger to herself. It

15:19

was very difficult because not

15:22

allowed to visit her. It was so

15:24

confusing and so

15:27

heartbreaking.

15:28

When you care for someone, it is just so

15:30

difficult to see them hurting and to know

15:32

what to do to help them. Based

15:35

on your personal experience, how do you

15:37

think we should be balancing this

15:40

need to protect our loved one and ensure

15:42

that they get the help that they need while

15:44

also dealing with a feeling that we

15:46

could be potentially hurting that

15:48

relationship with that person?

15:50

How do we balance this, Vanessa?

15:52

Oh, it is such a tough one. Obviously,

15:55

communication strategies like

15:57

the LEAP method are so helpful.

15:59

They have been gold in helping

16:02

me communicate with my daughter. And

16:04

as far as services, I just would

16:06

love to see a more care centered

16:08

approach that the professionals who

16:10

are involved be utilized in that

16:13

manner to offer a more

16:15

comfort based environment and

16:17

the recognition that when people are in psychosis,

16:19

they are suffering and they are sick. I

16:21

don't understand how we can separate

16:24

physical illness and mental illness,

16:26

and doing so causes so much stigma

16:29

that our loved ones are not getting

16:31

the correct type of help for

16:34

the severity of their illnesses.

16:36

Right. And I would like to see

16:38

them safe. There needs to be a safe

16:41

place for ill people

16:43

to recover. And it's not on the streets.

16:46

Honestly, when my daughter is in psychosis,

16:48

she's not capable of behaving. She's

16:50

not in reality. She thinks she is

16:52

a superhero. She thinks she talks to

16:54

God. She thinks that she is constantly

16:56

being raped. She thinks that her family

16:59

are just even saying

17:01

it out loud is a terrifying

17:03

thing. And that's just my case.

17:06

I talk to people on a daily

17:08

basis who have experienced the same

17:10

thing, and their loved ones have died

17:13

because there was no safe place for them to go.

17:15

So when we're talking in voluntary

17:17

treatment, so many of the people

17:19

who need to have involuntary treatment

17:21

are not receiving it, and there's just

17:23

simply not enough space. The

17:25

state courts for.

17:29

Yeah. Vanessa, my

17:31

heart not only breaks for

17:33

Mira that she feels

17:35

that in her mind that is a reality.

17:38

But my heart also breaks for you that

17:40

you as a mother have to witness your baby

17:43

go through that kind of trauma and that kind of pain.

17:45

It's definitely been quite

17:48

constant heartbreak.

17:51

So, Vanessa, there would be a lot of mothers,

17:54

siblings, aunts, grandmothers

17:58

listening to this right now. What

18:01

advice would you give

18:03

somebody who has

18:05

a daughter or a sister or an

18:07

uncle with a serious

18:10

mental illness and they are debating

18:13

whether to call police and to get them

18:15

into hospital to get the help that they

18:17

need and deserve?

18:18

I would say call. Make sure that

18:21

when you call, you request somebody

18:23

who is very used to dealing with mental

18:25

health, because it's sometimes the moments

18:28

that we've had to make those emergency calls

18:30

when people weren't trained in mental health. They've

18:32

gone very sideways. I would say

18:35

to you got to keep believing in them

18:37

with all your heart. Even when communication

18:39

is not always possible because

18:41

boundaries are important. You can't put

18:43

yourself in a potentially violent

18:46

situation or situation where you're

18:48

getting hurt constantly or

18:50

stolen from or taken advantage

18:52

of. So sometimes you've got

18:54

to love them from afar and just

18:56

hope that somebody is taking care of them, Right.

18:59

Well, so, Vanessa. Love them from afar

19:02

when you have to, but ensure that

19:04

they get the help they need and they may not

19:06

like you at that moment.

19:08

Oh, no. She has been so

19:10

livid at me for phoning the police

19:12

or the hospital.

19:14

That's a love of a mother, for sure. Yeah.

19:17

That's why I wanted to do this, because I have

19:19

been quiet. When she was first diagnosed,

19:22

I didn't tell anybody. I was just living

19:24

in fear that somebody would find out or

19:26

see her. But this time, it's honestly

19:29

been so public. She has been

19:31

banned at restaurants that I go to for

19:33

running through them, grabbing people's drinks

19:36

and throwing things. It's like everybody

19:38

already knows anyway. Everybody's seen

19:41

my kids. Why not try and reframe it a little

19:43

bit? Because she is so

19:45

awesome. I can't even stress that enough.

19:48

All of these people who are running around in psychosis

19:50

on the streets, they're awesome people.

19:52

There's somebody awesome people and

19:54

they deserve just as much care. Somebody

19:57

with cancer and I am tired of

19:59

her not getting it.

20:01

Well, thank you so much for joining

20:03

me today. And I just truly

20:05

appreciate you sharing all of your experience

20:09

and sharing and talking about your beautiful

20:11

daughter. And Vanessa,

20:13

you were just one of the many families struggling to

20:15

find ways to cope and to help their

20:17

loved one who lives with schizophrenia or

20:19

another serious mental illness. And

20:21

the Mental Health Act, as we know, is

20:23

a very important resource and tool that families

20:26

need access to. So it's there when

20:28

they need it. We need to keep talking

20:30

about this very important topic. So,

20:32

Vanessa, thank you again for sharing your thoughts

20:35

on this issue and for

20:37

being so courageous to share your

20:39

personal story.

20:40

You're very welcome.

20:41

Thank you. And a huge

20:43

thank you to you, our audience, for joining

20:45

us for this episode. Together, we can

20:48

change the narrative around mental illnesses like

20:50

schizophrenia and put an end

20:52

to the many myths and stereotypes

20:54

that we were talking about today. If

20:56

you have any questions or comments, tweet

20:59

us at b c schizophrenia. And

21:01

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21:05

or anywhere you listen to podcasts.

21:08

We hope you can join us next episode. Talk

21:10

to you soon.

21:17

This podcast is brought to you by the B.C. Schizophrenia

21:19

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21:21

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21:24

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21:28

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21:30

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