0:02

Hello, and welcome

0:04

to this week's episode

0:06

of a loop to loop. I'm

0:09

your host Ashe. And

0:11

this week we will be diving in

0:13

to a conversation. With

0:16

Krista from silver

0:18

hen fly company. Out

0:20

of Western Pennsylvania,

0:23

Virginia, Ohio area. She is

0:25

one fly lady and we are

0:27

so excited. To

0:30

present you this convo, we

0:32

will be going over.

0:35

All sorts of beginners

0:37

information, what you

0:39

should know to get started, where you can

0:42

get started with fly fishing.

0:44

Along with. A

0:46

really great invitation

0:49

to cheat Fest.

0:51

So this is a watershed.

0:54

Located in West Virginia and

0:57

the friends of the cheat.

1:00

Offer this every year as

1:03

a celebration of spring.

1:05

And really. Trying

1:08

to clean up that water. Watershed.

1:11

So. To kick it off.

1:13

I'm going to hand it over to Krista

1:15

and we will. Get

1:17

right to it. So I hope

1:20

you enjoy this conversation. And

1:23

our time together.

1:26

The only way to do it, send it. Hell

1:30

yeah.

1:31

All right. So

1:34

to kick it off, I

1:36

will turn the floor over to you,

1:39

Christa

1:40

Yeah. Growing up, I grew out,

1:42

grew up right outside of DC in

1:44

Northern Virginia. And my parents

1:46

didn't fish, no one in my family fished, but

1:48

my neighbor is a couple of times took me as a weak

1:51

girl to. Ah,

1:53

place where we can catch them like bluegill and bass. So

1:55

we were literally handling fishing with just like

1:57

hooks line and worms. And

1:59

I love that as I grew up and

2:01

got a little older, I'd take myself down to the same spot,

2:04

walk down there and fish by myself, come home

2:06

started getting into sports in school so I didn't have time

2:08

for it. But when I went and got off to college, I was

2:11

in West Virginia university and there's lots

2:13

of good fishing water over there. So there

2:15

is a Creek. My house

2:17

has had an ungodly amount of bluegill

2:19

and fast. So I started to spin

2:22

fishing for them, regular gear fishing with

2:24

worms, traditionally and little bugs and stuff like

2:26

that. But I ran out of worms

2:28

one day and all I had

2:30

were these little soft plastic tiny

2:33

bugs. And I was like, there's no way this is going to

2:35

work. So I just threw one of those on, and I caught

2:37

like a ton of bluegill with it. And I was like, wait, turning

2:40

point, this works. There's more to this.

2:43

Yeah. So then I started using like artificial lores,

2:46

pretty much only prep artificial

2:48

lures. And as I got more into that,

2:51

one of my buddies was like, she tried fly fishing

2:53

and I'm like, oh, okay. So

2:55

a hook flying around in the air sounds

2:58

like a liability, but I tried it and

3:00

I loved it right off the bat. People had

3:02

encouraged me to try it, but no one was really willing

3:05

to come out there and say,

3:07

we'll teach you. So I just picked up a fly rod,

3:09

like a cheap one from Walmart and

3:11

just watch videos taught

3:13

myself just use the experience, me being

3:15

out there every day as like a teacher for myself

3:17

and. The annoying part

3:20

about that was I was learning all these bad habits, but

3:22

then when I was learning the right way, I had to undo

3:24

all those bad habits. It was years

3:27

that I got to where I'm at, but, as

3:29

opposed to someone who takes lessons and gets guided

3:31

right off the bat. But when you're a poor college

3:33

kid, you don't have access to all of that. Yeah, I

3:35

just was on the water everyday after class, any

3:37

free day, any free couple hours I had, I was

3:39

out there on the water. Just learning.

3:41

So you went to West Virginia state. What did you go

3:43

to school for?

3:43

I went to went there for business. Using that

3:45

now. I used that in my job that I had

3:48

starting two summers ago, I was the department

3:50

lead manager, the fishing department over at

3:52

an outfitter in Ohiopyle, state park. So

3:55

use my managerial expertise

3:58

to know how to work the job there

4:00

and how to talk to people or how to interview people

4:02

and hire guides. And that's where a lot of my experience

4:04

came from too. But prior to that, I was

4:06

volunteer.

4:07

What would you say when you're working with like project

4:09

healing waters or any other nonprofit,

4:11

what are some of your touching moments? What

4:13

would you say are like the moments that are the most

4:16

rewarding for you?

4:17

A lot of the guys before they knew me.

4:19

When I started working with the program, they didn't know who I was

4:21

or what I was capable of or what I could offer them.

4:23

I'm putting flyers on their line that they probably would never

4:26

use. And at the time we were doing steelhead

4:28

outings, we were on a trip and

4:30

I put this tiny, size,

4:32

14 purple nymph on there.

4:34

And guys are looking at me like, I'm crazy. And I'm

4:36

like, it's going to work. I promise. So we

4:39

get out there, we know the steelhead are there.

4:41

They're just not eating. We

4:43

keep casting my other buddy

4:45

and I walked down to see them run up

4:47

there's flats, where they're running up into the holes. And

4:49

then before we knew it my guy that had the same

4:51

nympho I was like, I got one, I got ones come running

4:54

up. I grabbed the net and I netted

4:56

for him. That was his first steelhead. After

4:58

that he was respect, it was like, yeah. Like figured

5:00

they would probably go for something small water's clear.

5:03

So it was a really good feeling that it was that

5:05

turning point for him that he was like, I'm going to listen

5:07

to her from now on and next year I'm going to take her

5:09

with me.

5:10

Nice. Nice. Sounds like you've

5:12

gained a lot of experience through trial

5:14

and error and working with,

5:16

just going out and seeing

5:18

what works for you. How would you

5:21

apply that say you were someone new.

5:23

What advice would you have for that new

5:25

person going through that trial and error

5:27

period?

5:28

My first couple of years in fly fishing, I would get

5:30

so frustrated, not having learned the proper

5:32

techniques. All I'm going off of is

5:34

videos on Instagram and videos

5:37

on YouTube. And there was a lot of days

5:39

that I was like, I hate fly fishing

5:41

and I'm never going to do it again. And

5:43

here I am. So all I gotta say is it

5:45

is frustrating at times, learn anything, without

5:47

someone there to instruct you properly is

5:50

frustrating at times. But if you're,

5:52

dead set on learning yourself or

5:55

just picking it up as you go stick with it

5:57

try new things. Research. I did a ton

5:59

of research into it because I just became

6:01

obsessed and, I need to figure out what works

6:03

and I realized. In the first year

6:06

or two, that it wasn't luck. Like everyone

6:08

was telling you, everyone's like fishing, just get lucky.

6:10

And I'm like, no, you do not. You

6:12

have to know what you're doing. You have to know what's going

6:14

on. Learning that and applying it to everyday

6:16

when I'm on the water really made a difference

6:18

in my angling game.

6:20

Definitely. And I, so you're talking

6:23

about using YouTube and using these different

6:26

avenues of learning, but one

6:28

of them that I found has been

6:30

the hardest for us, especially as women

6:33

to essentially break down a door,

6:35

knock on the door and get into is

6:37

one-on-one, hands-on learning

6:40

with people that are highly experienced because as

6:42

we both know, the feeling of

6:45

do I even really belong here. So

6:48

how, working with others and overcoming

6:50

that barrier what challenges

6:52

have you seen? Because from me, I've had

6:54

everything from being cat called to being told

6:56

to leave. So I'm

6:59

interested. What experience do you share

7:01

there?

7:01

So many so many I remember joining

7:04

the fly fishing club at WVU

7:06

and expecting them to show me like spots or

7:08

giving me suggestions. And very little

7:10

of that was done. A lot of them are my buddies now we're

7:13

super tight. We're homeys, but They

7:16

weren't in the mood for guiding. When they went to go fishing,

7:18

they wanted to go fishing. So I respect that

7:20

and I had to learn on my own

7:22

and sometimes I would go fishing with them. They, weren't

7:25

going to sit there and, hold my hand and baby

7:27

me, which was good. But aside from that,

7:29

being on the water, people always asking me,

7:31

did your boyfriend teach you, did your dad teach you?

7:34

No, I learned myself

7:36

because I wanted to get good at this. That

7:38

totally shocks. And by the way, they're like, oh my God,

7:40

that's why then I'm like, isn't it. And

7:43

there was this one time I was coming down

7:45

on a float and this guy

7:48

who I guarantee wasn't a local

7:50

in the area, he probably just found a good spot and didn't

7:52

want to leave it. It was either go around him and

7:54

have to drag the boat through

7:56

some shallows. Call it through.

7:58

And at the time I was using a really heavy boat or

8:01

I could go in front of him, just go far

8:03

enough, farther than his line could cast. And he

8:06

was not having it. I was like, I'm going to go in

8:08

front of you, but I'm going to go like way to the other side of the

8:10

bank. So I'm not going to scare your fish. I'm not

8:12

going to hit your line nothing. And

8:15

he he pulled out his pistol and just flashed it.

8:17

And I was like, all right, I'll go around. I'll go

8:19

around you. So I feel like that's something,

8:21

I feel like that aside from me being a girl, I

8:23

feel like anyone would have dealt with that. But just stuff

8:25

like that, people are very like, this is

8:27

mine. Don't come near me, leave

8:30

me alone so much. So that they're like, yeah,

8:33

I've got unpacking my

8:35

pocket. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sitting here with heat, so

8:37

go around kind of thing. Something like that, isn't

8:40

uncommon, especially in like rural parts

8:42

on the river, so I was like, all expected

8:44

that. Not from the get-go. Just

8:47

little things like that I'm dealing with. Adding to

8:49

that question, you asked me going up to Ohio

8:51

very gate kept community. They don't want

8:53

people coming in fishing that are

8:55

from out of state which is crazy for me. Because

8:58

they have some of the longest and widest rivers.

9:00

So you go over to Pennsylvania. We have a little sliver

9:02

of the lake, little sliver. All

9:04

the creeks and stuff are packed shoulder to shoulder

9:07

fishing. It's mad house, but when you go over

9:09

to Ohio, it's not like that there's space. There's

9:11

multiple rivers that have these steelhead

9:13

running up them. Just really weird mindset.

9:15

We're not impeding on you guys just

9:18

yet. And just a couple of guides that work up there

9:20

that aren't very fond of me say things like you

9:22

gotta a lot of audacity coming over here

9:24

and fishing my water being from Pennsylvania.

9:28

I thought this was America so

9:31

I don't understand that at times, but I

9:34

have learned over the years to let comments like that,

9:36

just roll off my shoulders and I'm like, Just

9:38

something they're happy. They're gonna have to deal with just in the fall

9:40

season, all those Ohio people

9:43

don't get the fall run as much as we do.

9:45

So they come over and we'd welcome them,

9:47

we're like, Hey, how's it going? You're from Ohio. Cool.

9:49

I got friends over there, but when we're over there, it's a totally

9:51

different vibe.

9:52

That's, it's interesting because we see

9:54

a lot of vacationers in the fall

9:56

and especially in the spring was steelhead

9:59

because it's definitely a different

10:01

game when you come. Especially

10:03

I'm guessing Pennsylvania is a lot like Michigan

10:06

where it's tighter water, you're,

10:08

navigating through probably pretty skinny

10:11

rivers and woodwork

10:13

to get to these fish. So

10:15

we see this huge influx.

10:18

And for the most part, most people are

10:20

pretty friendly. It's a good

10:23

time. It's a lot of comradery,

10:26

but it's also really stressful

10:28

on the environment is you probably

10:30

see from the trash, the,

10:33

people keeping fish, or maybe even

10:35

mishandling. So how,

10:37

how is a guide when you're working

10:40

with new clients? How do you encourage

10:42

good behavior?

10:43

Honestly I can just educate I can just

10:45

say, I understand you want to keep the fish,

10:47

but if we put it back, maybe there's

10:49

more fish for us next year or tell them

10:51

like, Almost inadvertently guilt them a little

10:53

bit. Yeah, there's a lot of trash around here, so

10:55

we have to do river cleanups that we have to like

10:57

voluntarily do and keep our river

10:59

clean. No one pays us for it kind of thing.

11:02

And then they think twice, okay. Maybe I shouldn't contribute

11:04

to them having to pick up after me. It was a real problem

11:07

right after the pandemic or I would say as

11:09

it was, the restrictions were letting up

11:11

because the amusement parks were closed.

11:14

So everyone was coming into the state parks. This

11:16

is our amusement park and I'm like,

11:18

it's not, there's definitely

11:21

limited trash cans as opposed to what they're used to,

11:23

but they're still there. So use them. So we were picking,

11:25

we were doing a lot of river cleanups and a lot of picking up trash

11:28

over there too. Yeah, when I have clients though, just

11:30

educating them and, explaining why

11:32

we fly fish and why we put the fish back

11:34

and why we keep the water clean and.

11:37

Eventually doing all of those little acts,

11:39

benefits us in the long run. So then

11:42

they start to think, okay, I'm not just doing something for other

11:44

people. I'm doing it for me, which, psychologically

11:46

as humans, they're going to think I need something. I need to be giving

11:48

something that benefits me is how they think in their

11:50

mind that it's going to benefit them. Eventually

11:53

they might be more willing to participate in it,

11:55

yeah. I think it's like the Templeton,

11:57

like the rat from Charlotte's web, that'd be like, what's

11:59

in it for me.

12:01

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Excellent

12:03

example

12:04

that sort of mindset of what do I

12:07

get out of this is something a lot of times

12:09

we have to remind people,

12:11

especially like picking up trash because

12:13

I've been floating down the river and I'll see,

12:15

a group of waiters and they're

12:17

all on the bank. They're fishing and they've, they're

12:19

having a good time, but they leave

12:21

like a ton of beer cans around them. And if

12:24

they're leaving and I'm floating by, it's Hey,

12:26

do you want to help us out? Can you help us

12:28

clean this. Sometimes you

12:30

get the, middle finger or some sort

12:32

of wave. How sometimes you deal with

12:34

those people. It's almost a level

12:36

of patience. I think fly fishing

12:38

in many different ways is taught us

12:41

patience. And is that

12:44

for you? Is that something you find yourself revisiting

12:46

and coming back to,

12:49

oh yeah, a hundred percent of the time. The whole

12:51

industry itself puts me in my place

12:54

multiple times in a week, I'd say. Going

12:56

back to your trash question, it's the vibe

12:59

of. Yeah, you got to

13:01

eyeball them, and you got to make the distinction. Am

13:03

I going to get stern with these people or am I going

13:05

to, be a little lighthearted and maybe

13:07

make a suggestion towards them? It's right away.

13:10

It's the vibe of who am I going to raise my voice to?

13:12

Or who am I going to talk nicely to? Because it

13:14

depends on what people are going to respond to, and

13:16

not always, has it been successful,

13:19

kind heartedly can you like maybe pick up

13:22

the trash it's sometimes you got to get real with

13:24

them and you gotta be like, this is a mess. Like

13:26

it needs to not happen again and pick it

13:28

up kind of thing. But that's

13:30

part of being patient, and I do the same

13:32

thing with my clients, I'm patient with all of them, but some

13:34

of them need a little more of a,

13:37

we talked about this kind of thing

13:39

and some of them need a more of a, that

13:41

was actually really good. We're almost there to the

13:43

point we need you to be. The

13:45

next time we can just, do it a little bit different this

13:47

time. And I see that contrast all the time,

13:50

because when I'm working with my female clients,

13:53

a lot of them, they need to be talked to gently

13:55

and they want to be respected and they want to

13:57

be taught that they're doing well because they are doing well. They

14:00

just need to be reminded of it. So they're not second guessing

14:02

themselves, but the veterans that I guide

14:04

for project healing, waters, they'll of something

14:07

that I've told them not to do a million times. And I'll just

14:09

look at them and saying, I thought we talked

14:11

about this. I thought you said you weren't going to do

14:13

it again. And they, I guess

14:15

it's just the mentality of them being in the service.

14:17

And then being used to the hardness that they love

14:19

it. They're like, oh, you're so hard. You're a drill

14:22

Sergeant. I love it. And I'm like, that's how

14:24

I'm going to talk to you guys from now on. Cause you guys respond

14:26

to it. You guys are cool with it and it gets

14:28

the job done. So I'm

14:30

just catering it to the different people.

14:32

So trying to understand your audience and

14:34

how to present that to them. So they

14:36

feel good and confident about,

14:38

information you're trying to cover.

14:40

Yeah. A hundred percent.

14:42

Yeah. So I noticed one,

14:44

one thing that really attracted

14:47

me to reaching out and in

14:49

working with you is the fact that you

14:51

have a pretty strong stance on the fact

14:54

that fly fishing is pretty

14:56

gated in terms of the

14:58

consumers, the industry who's doing

15:01

it. And I saw an Instagram

15:03

story where you're, Hey, we're not doing this anymore.

15:05

So if you want to, I would

15:07

love for you to explain your stance

15:09

on where we're at

15:12

in terms of women on the water, LGBTQ

15:15

community, and even people of

15:17

color. This is a big thing that

15:19

is really starting to finally surface

15:22

in many different areas.

15:24

Yeah. We just have too many companies

15:26

and too much business in the industry

15:28

to not be able to offer services

15:31

and products to these people

15:33

that maybe don't have the easiest

15:35

foot in the door. One of the people I look up to, or

15:37

her name's Erica Nelson, she's the awkward

15:40

angler. Yeah, she's great. She's awesome. She's

15:42

she once said if we want to see the change,

15:44

we need to be the change. And I was like, On

15:47

point. Yes, we do need to be the change.

15:49

We need to outreach those people. They're not going

15:51

to sit home one day and just think I

15:54

want to go fly fishing and maybe they

15:56

do, but we need to make that easier to them

15:58

to be able to access us and access

16:00

our services and access products

16:02

that the industry has to offer. So part

16:05

of what I do with that is being on the water

16:07

to show them that I can do it, that I'm there, that

16:10

I was, self-taught self-trained

16:12

and self motivated to get through this and to be where I'm

16:15

at today. And additionally

16:17

we take a look at the fly fishing industry.

16:20

It's very a rich man's sport, and I don't like that.

16:22

I don't like that at all. Cause like I said, we have too many businesses

16:24

in the industry to be able to offer products to people

16:27

that are just as good. But for a lower

16:29

price point so that people aren't pouring

16:31

a lot of money into this right away before they

16:33

make the decision that they want to continue this as a hobby.

16:36

If you look at a starter up, for instance, we're

16:38

looking at what, maybe five,

16:40

500 to $600

16:43

for most of the mainstream companies.

16:45

And that's really troubling to me

16:48

being like, like you said, we both started out as

16:50

is broke college kids, trying

16:52

to figure out this sport and

16:55

what brands to use stand out

16:57

in terms of. Median price

16:59

points. So you're not spending, a

17:01

whole paycheck or even more.

17:05

Yeah. I see guides like all the time, like I

17:07

got a Helio's and I got this Sage

17:09

and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I don't use that because also

17:11

outfits you at the end of the day, because it's not

17:13

the gear, it's the angler, a hundred percent.

17:16

All my buddies use very expensive rods

17:18

top of the line stuff. And I'm using base models,

17:21

like I don't need a $1,300

17:23

rod. It's not necessary. It's

17:25

a status symbol. You know what I mean? And I don't

17:27

need the cloud, so I'm just guiding

17:29

people that want to learn and I'm guiding people

17:31

that are experienced, but one a good Experience

17:33

with their guide. I got base model rods nicest

17:36

rod that I have is a Clearwater. I treated

17:38

myself to a Clearwater one time. That's

17:40

the highest and most expensive rod that I have. And I

17:42

don't stray away from that because when

17:45

clients look at my rods, I want them to maybe

17:47

look at them and say, maybe I'll go look that up

17:49

and see what she's working with. And then

17:51

they'll go home and they'll see that it's a very

17:53

affordable rod, because I've learned time and time

17:55

again that the nice rods will make you fish

17:57

any better the nice waiters will make you fish any

17:59

better. If you go with just a single company for

18:02

waiters rod real

18:04

line, all that stuff, like you said, it's like over $500.

18:06

It's crazy. So when

18:08

I get women coming into my clinics, they'll email

18:10

me and ask me, what waiters should I get? And Let's

18:12

figure out if you like this first, let's not pour

18:15

a lot of money into it right away. Go to Amazon

18:17

and get you the $40 special because it comes

18:19

with boots. And I actually use

18:21

a same waiters that I got off Amazon,

18:23

like through my guiding years. I just recently

18:26

got. Orvis pro waders

18:28

for the cold being out in Ohio

18:31

and New York fishing. They work, they never,

18:33

the waiters that I got off Amazon, Orvis

18:35

and Simms they don't want you to hear this, but they don't leak.

18:37

Are they the $40 ones with the welded

18:39

boots? Yeah. Oh,

18:42

I love those for winner. Honestly. It's

18:44

the best for your feet and stuff? That

18:46

neoprene gets really cold.

18:48

Yeah. And if you're anxious like me and

18:50

you want to get out on the water right away, you just slide

18:52

them on, click them in and you're good to go. You don't

18:54

need to worry about putting the boots on. They worked for

18:56

me. I literally had them for over four years.

18:58

Still. No leaks. I have them. I have them right now. No

19:01

leaks. So I just feel like because

19:03

fly fishing is such a recreational sport. We

19:05

look at the average income. For people

19:07

that are in the industry, like

19:09

recreationally as a hobby, their average

19:12

income is over $80,000 a year. So

19:14

all the businesses have catered their

19:17

markets towards that and not considered,

19:20

okay. We need more affordable gear

19:22

for people looking to get into it, or women.

19:24

And I see a lot of brands still trying to do the 50,

19:26

50 on the water thing. And they're work, they're getting

19:28

better. They're getting better. But their

19:31

women's colors are still like, a

19:33

little fem like I'm wearing what the guys

19:35

were out there. It's very stealthy looking.

19:37

It's very sharp. And some of the things that they offer

19:39

the men, they still don't offer women.

19:41

Some of the sun shirts or some of the more

19:43

fitted items. They look

19:45

great on men. And then for us, for some

19:47

reason, everything is this weird

19:50

baby pink color. And it's

19:53

like for a sack of potatoes.

19:56

Yeah. Your options are a coral color

19:58

or teal, that's it? I'm

20:00

like I'm going to wear gray or tan

20:02

anything that's going to keep me cool. I'm out

20:04

there and not draw a lot of attention

20:06

because if a fish sees a traffic cone

20:09

coming up to the water, are they just going to sit

20:11

in the same spot and just yeah, that's fine. Probably

20:13

not. Yeah. Yeah. I try not to stand out.

20:15

I do buy some men's clothes. And, or like

20:17

when I do print shirts, I make neutral

20:19

colors what I'm wearing today. So that it's more

20:21

unisex, I only want to put out things

20:24

that I think that I would want to wear my. Nice.

20:28

That's just the basis I go off of.

20:30

So you were mentioning a Clearwater

20:32

ride. What other if you had

20:35

to reach out to someone

20:37

and they said, Hey, I

20:39

only have $300

20:42

and I want to start fly fishing. What

20:44

would be a few names that you would suggest?

20:46

Because that's, to me always,

20:48

the hardest thing is we have to first filter through

20:51

all of the high-end

20:53

rich people stuff,

20:55

and then we get the middle of the road. That's

20:58

still trying to pretend to be as pricey

21:00

as the rich people's stuff. And then

21:02

finally we get down to what's the bare minimum?

21:04

What do we need to be on the water?

21:07

When my clients ask what they should

21:09

go with for their first rod, I'm like right away an outfit,

21:12

you don't want to buy the rod and the reel and the line

21:14

all separate because that's just a lot. First of all, you

21:16

don't know anything about weights when you get into the industry

21:19

or what weight is good for, what fish

21:21

or what rod length and what, how big of a real

21:23

that's all too complicated right away. Float

21:26

tip, sink, tip all. Yeah.

21:29

That's too much right away. It's not something you

21:31

need to know right then. So I always

21:33

on suggesting the Orvis encounter great

21:36

deal, it's I think they have it on the special or something

21:38

for like less than $150 for

21:40

the rod, the reel on the line. And I use those

21:42

for clients every day, like here, use

21:45

this rod. It's great. And they love it. They end up going buying

21:47

one after they're done with it. So that's a good

21:49

beginner rod. The Reddington based model

21:51

as well, rod, reel the real line. And

21:53

with those two kids, if there are a case in it, so

21:55

it's everything's protected still.

21:57

Really enjoyed for some of

21:59

my client work has been the echo. The

22:02

preloaded set has been

22:04

great. And the warranty

22:07

on that is $40 for a replacement

22:09

part versus sending it away, waiting

22:11

six weeks. And then you get your fancy

22:13

rod

22:13

back. Yeah. My first

22:15

not Walmart rod was an echo. I still

22:18

have it. It's an echo nine foot, eight weight.

22:20

I, you, I bought it to use for bass so I can

22:22

throw some heavy streamers, but now I use

22:24

it for that and I use it for steelhead. I just,

22:26

I really recommend that too. It's a good one.

22:29

I have a, 2 wt through a 10 wt from them

22:31

and it's kinda funny. Cause it's always what I turn

22:33

to, even though I have a few,

22:35

what would be considered nicer rods?

22:37

They're not high-end by any means, but

22:40

people are like, oh, you're not using

22:42

your Douglass today. It's no, I

22:45

really like this rod. I like how it feels in my

22:47

hand. I like that. If it breaks,

22:49

it's not gonna, I'm not going to cry and

22:52

have to ship it away.

22:54

Yeah. There, those rods are really good

22:56

quality. Rachev sports puts

22:58

a lot of good quality into their rods. Cause

23:00

they know they're the underdogs, but they know that the real

23:03

OGs will buy them. And they

23:05

do a really good sponsorship with their guides.

23:07

The ones that use the rods and stuff. They do

23:09

them a solid every time. So I love going through them.

23:11

It's always a matter of, doing a little digging

23:14

to figure out what's the necessity

23:16

items for use versus what's

23:19

had a lot of marketing dollars thrown behind

23:21

it on it, especially like on Instagram or

23:23

Tik TOK or any of these social media platforms.

23:25

Yeah. A hundred percent. And then you always have those brands

23:28

that are low key, just shipping from China.

23:30

And they're like no, this is fine. This is great. We promise.

23:32

And I'm like, I feel like they're look, they're looking for a demographic

23:35

and they're really hitting it. They really are because

23:37

I know somebody that have bought those rods and

23:40

they're on the water and they're just like, oh my tip

23:42

snap. And I'm like, what

23:45

did you expect? Yeah. I've always been

23:47

curious, like you get on Amazon or you get

23:49

on. What

23:52

is it eBay? And one thing I've

23:54

always wanted, and this is really funny, but

23:56

I've always wanted a purple rod. I'm

23:58

like, oh, purple rod. And it's

24:00

like some weird thing out of China. You're

24:02

like, yeah, it might not

24:04

be the rod I

24:06

was looking for. I've always been curious,

24:09

like maybe I should just buy it and test it.

24:11

Yeah, just in case, right? Yeah, it looks

24:13

funky. If it looks funky, it's probably pretty

24:16

funky. My only suggestion to that

24:18

would be if a company is selling

24:20

some decent blanks in purple, go

24:22

for it, build your own. Other than that,

24:25

it's a toss up.

24:27

So you mentioned in, in our conversations,

24:30

you mentioned that you use fly

24:32

fishing is your release it's your go-to

24:34

place for mental clarity.

24:37

I also can totally

24:39

agree to that concept because for me,

24:42

I went through a pretty hard time in life and

24:44

that was where I turned to initially.

24:47

I had this weird dream. I kept having a reoccurring

24:49

dream that I kept catching a trout skeleton

24:51

and it was alive and it's oh, hi, I love

24:54

you. And I'd release it. And I'm like,

24:56

I think I need to go back to the water. So what

24:59

drives that mental clarity for you to

25:01

get out on the water for yourself?

25:03

I'm just like, you have had

25:05

really tough times where, and speaking

25:08

frankly times where I didn't want to eat or

25:10

sleep and just very miserable

25:12

and not doing well mentally and

25:14

just one day something and I was fly-fishing

25:16

the time, but I had not gone out for a while

25:18

and something, just some motivation

25:21

just got me up out of bed and

25:24

it was like, just go fly fishing. And I just felt

25:26

my body felt like it was deteriorating,

25:28

but as soon as I got in the water and I just started casting.

25:31

All of that went away and I was there

25:33

and just casting into the water for about two,

25:36

two and a half hours. And I didn't catch anything,

25:39

but I was walking back to the car and I was like, wow.

25:41

I really feel a lot better, even though

25:43

it didn't catch anything. Yeah, I don't know what it is.

25:45

Honestly. I've been like, sick to my stomach

25:47

from the night before and just go out fishing in the morning,

25:49

I catch a fish feel better. I

25:52

just, I'm not, there's something magical

25:54

about it, but it's probably not magical. It's probably something

25:56

very scientific that we haven't really researched

25:59

yet. But I really do think that there is something

26:01

behind the act of casting and even more

26:03

so the act of getting one all align.

26:05

I think that maybe it's the adrenaline

26:08

or something or just the peacefulness of it.

26:10

But now I look for a lot of clarity to

26:12

when I'm having some Epiphanes that are just

26:14

on the tip of my tongue, but I can't really get them

26:16

out and I'm just on the water and

26:18

somehow they just seem to fall right

26:20

into place. And with that, I like to express

26:23

that fly poetry sometimes. Like

26:25

it's very private. I have a very private Instagram

26:27

for it. It's not like you can't even, it's

26:29

open it's an open Instagram, but you'll

26:31

never find it. I like to, put my poems on

26:33

there and just gain some clarity and then go back and

26:35

look at them and see where I was where mentally

26:38

and emotionally in that time where I was comparing

26:41

fly fishing and the flies and the fish to

26:43

real issues in life and weird

26:45

enough, they really make sense though.

26:47

I fully agree with

26:50

the science part of how we

26:52

get to process on the water. I've

26:54

done tons of digging around, the frequency

26:57

of moving water for instance is something.

27:00

When you look at like healing arts and

27:03

things like that. A lot of times we

27:05

turn to the sounds of moving water,

27:07

because it's a higher,

27:09

it's like a higher Hertz

27:11

then typical sounds.

27:14

So people are starting to try to

27:16

prove this, that there is a lot of

27:18

like health benefit to standing,

27:20

the pressure of the water on your legs,

27:23

the sights and the sounds. And even

27:25

just being in nature. I know something

27:27

that's become super popular is nature bathing.

27:30

So I see all over Instagram, people are like, oh,

27:32

go take a walk in the woods, go sit in the woods.

27:35

Like this is something that's new.

27:37

And in it's no, I think

27:39

our flying angler friends, like really

27:41

know this.

27:43

Yeah. Yeah. And really for me,

27:45

I wasn't like, I need to use this as a means of therapy

27:47

right away. I think fishing's cool. Yeah. I feel

27:49

every time I'm out there, it heals me. And I come back

27:52

better than I was and when I went into it

27:54

so I do use that pretty frequently from

27:56

week to week as like a means of therapy. So

27:58

I have people ask me all the time, why are you fishing in the winter

28:00

time? That's crazy. And I'm like, I need it to

28:03

survive. So I'm out

28:05

there 12 degrees, 6 degrees fishing

28:07

for steelhead and trout and anything

28:09

else that is willing to bite really. People

28:12

are just out there calling me crazy, but, there's no crowds.

28:14

And no one's bothering me and

28:16

I'm catching fish and getting what

28:19

I need out of it. And then I'm going home.

28:21

So it's you are truly just hearing like the

28:23

water and depending on if you're like

28:25

spray casting, just that line, slapping

28:28

the water as you get ready to cast it. Those

28:30

to me are my winter moments. Even though there's

28:32

some of the hardest, I feel

28:34

I've moved through some, really deep stuff

28:36

where I'm like, whoa, that was

28:39

like, even though I was out there a half hour,

28:41

cause it was freezing, I come back

28:43

to the car. I'm like, that was worth it.

28:45

Yeah. And I, I think the same

28:48

about winter fishing, they always talk about, bathing,

28:50

cold water okay we're out there. And

28:52

I feel like when you have that silence

28:54

and that water running just in the background

28:57

kind of thing, you become more attuned

28:59

to like your body till you can hear your breaths

29:02

and you can almost feel. Get

29:04

more in tune with your body shutting all your other senses

29:06

out. So yeah, super

29:08

therapeutic in that way too. Yeah.

29:11

I, this winter, there were many moments

29:13

where I'm like, I don't want to go. And then it's no

29:15

just go stand down there. Even if it's for half

29:17

hour and just throw some cast out.

29:19

Cause not like I caught anything,

29:21

but it's just being in that

29:24

space for any period of time

29:26

is just to me, it's you can

29:28

shut off from like the TV, the computer,

29:30

the laptop, all of this stuff to

29:32

like recenter.

29:34

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And that's

29:37

why I take myself out still. When it season,

29:39

I have less time to take myself out, but. When

29:42

I do have time between clients or

29:44

weekends or off season, I'm

29:46

just out there and I'm like, this

29:48

is my sanctuary. So totally

29:52

relate to you on that. Yeah. So for

29:54

people that are curious

29:56

about fly fishing, how

29:58

what would be your invitation,

30:01

what would your invitation sound like to

30:03

them coming into

30:05

the sport and even just shadowing

30:09

you like for the day From the outside,

30:11

looking in, it looks like there is a

30:13

lot of people that don't look very diversified

30:16

in this industry. And

30:18

that statement is probably mostly correct, but

30:20

there's people like you and I, and

30:23

people of color and indigenous people

30:25

and LGBTQ people that

30:27

are on the water, we're just we're there, we're

30:30

just not in the numbers yet, but

30:32

we're working on it. There's people out there that are working

30:34

to make the community way more diversified, more

30:36

women on the water, more people of color, more

30:38

LGBTQ individuals. Because

30:40

we want them there. We don't want to gate there

30:42

anymore. We want to break that gate

30:44

down and let people

30:47

know that this sport is there for them because. There

30:50

are so many individuals in those communities

30:52

that need the kind

30:54

of healing aspects of fly-fishing. And

30:57

I say that as a woman, and I say that as a member

31:00

of the LGBTQ community, because it

31:02

helped me so much and there's

31:04

so much, and if I didn't have

31:06

that, I don't know what I would have

31:08

had, and I want to offer that same kind of

31:10

therapy in the same kind of peace to them

31:13

because they deserve it. Everyone does, I just feel

31:15

like right now it's a little bit harder for them to get involved

31:18

because they don't have the right resources.

31:20

And if they're a client, it's nothing but professionalism

31:23

and like telling them about the area

31:25

and tell them about the trees and the plants and the bugs

31:27

and the fish and anything else they want to know about

31:29

that I should be knowledgeable about, so it kinda just depends

31:31

on who's coming out of the water with me.

31:34

I can't agree any more than,

31:36

with what you said because we, especially

31:39

as women and in supporters

31:41

of, all these different communities

31:43

that have been kept out. I think the

31:45

moments where I'm alone on the water

31:47

with a bunch of guys, I feel the most insecure.

31:50

I'm watching dudes like maybe get 30 feet

31:52

out. And there I

31:54

am at least getting 50 or 60 in

31:56

front of the, in front of the raft, I'm going, why

31:59

do I feel so insecure? Like,

32:01

why do I feel that I don't

32:03

belong here even though, people like us

32:05

have the skills.

32:07

I feel like it's because we are always

32:09

in a state of having to prove people wrong.

32:11

People, we already know their assumptions, their head. We

32:13

already know that they're like, yeah, she's a girl. She's

32:15

probably not gonna know how to cast or how

32:17

to catch a fish or anything like that. So

32:19

we're always in this heightened state of watch me, watch

32:22

out cause I'm going to make it happen. So I

32:24

would like to say yes, the same thing. I

32:26

also think it depends on who I'm with. Just

32:28

like I said if I'm with my buddies, I'm just giving

32:30

them a hard time and they'll tell you the same. I'm just

32:32

ragging on them the whole time, because I

32:34

feel. I'm also

32:37

constantly proving to them. Like I belong here,

32:39

but more times than not, I'm showing them that

32:41

I belong there, and over time they've just learned that

32:43

respect about me now, the second they try and

32:45

challenge me, I'm like right there let's go, let's

32:48

do this kind of thing. Cause I'm always up for the challenge,

32:50

just with all the backlash that I've been given. And I'm like,

32:53

no, I'm pretty confident in myself now. But you want to go

32:55

toe to toe. What's going to happen. So they

32:57

don't challenge me now, but it's more of a

32:59

friendly banter, but it's

33:01

the guys on the water that I don't know. So

33:04

best feeling in the world is I'll come

33:06

up to the Creek or the river just by myself.

33:09

And I just have a guy I side-eye me. Doesn't

33:12

say hello. Doesn't say

33:14

anything to me. They just look at me, give that longing,

33:16

stare, like trying to figure me out. Who

33:18

is she? Where'd she come from? But she knows she's doing. Pull

33:21

up, catch a couple fish right in

33:23

front of them. They haven't caught anything. And then bow

33:25

out just like two, two fish, one fish, two

33:27

fish, red fish, blue fish, something out

33:29

of there. And

33:32

then they're just left looking puzzled. Like I definitely,

33:34

shoot them a look like, right before I leave.

33:36

And I'm just like, I want to see the look on their face

33:39

right after I leave. So they know that I know

33:41

that they look surprised, but I'm not surprised,

33:43

What advice do you have for people that are

33:45

new to the water in terms of holding

33:48

their own space?

33:49

One of my mentors a couple of years ago,

33:52

Was talking with me about an altercation that I had

33:54

on the water with a couple other guides. And for

33:57

the longest time I thought, did I do something wrong?

33:59

Like I was, they were wrong. They

34:02

dissed me on the water and the whole time, cause

34:04

I'm like, I don't know, like just

34:06

questioning myself. I'm like, did I do wrong? What did

34:08

I do? It wasn't me. And it wasn't, it was

34:10

them. So I talked to him about it, he's

34:12

a really old wise guy. They call him fish

34:14

wizard, and he was like, nobody

34:16

owns the water. What they did

34:19

was wrong. And I told them

34:21

they were wrong. So having

34:23

people like that advocate for people like me to I'm

34:25

like my head's like up in the sky and

34:27

I'm like self doubting myself.

34:29

It was good to hear that. So I tell people

34:32

all the time, my clients and everyone else, nobody

34:34

owns the water. Nobody, they

34:36

get as much as they want to. No one owns the water.

34:39

If you want to go fishing. But adding to that,

34:41

I'm just very personable where I'll just go

34:43

off and talk to strangers and

34:46

mirror them a little bit. So they feel more comfortable with me. So

34:48

I've gone up to like tons of dudes, tons of women,

34:50

everybody in there fishing. I'm like you

34:52

guys catching anything, what's work in, and if they're

34:54

going to be dicks, they're going to be dicks and I move on

34:56

and I'm like, all right, bye. I'll figure it out myself. But

34:58

a lot of times, I'm very grateful that all of them have been

35:00

like, oh, Hey, how you doing? Yeah. I'm just

35:03

using some of these nymphs. They're working really well. And I'm like,

35:05

oh great. Thank you. I'm just going to be up here. Is that okay?

35:07

And they're like, yeah, no, that's fine. Like as

35:09

long as you're communicating to them that

35:11

you're a part of the community and you just want to come and fish

35:13

and have a good time. People are usually super cool

35:15

about that. But the times that they aren't stand

35:18

your ground, like people

35:20

question you, and that's happened to me tons of times.

35:23

Do you know that, do you know this section

35:25

of the water you Fisher before? And I'm like, yeah, I

35:27

have. Or even if I have, and I'm like,

35:29

no, but I'm gonna figure it out by, if they never

35:31

come up with a, you can tell who comes up with a friendly demeanor

35:34

and who doesn't, right off the bat, it's the vibe, what's

35:36

the vibe. Are they asking you how you're doing?

35:38

Are they greating you? Are they

35:40

like super into super excited to see you in the water?

35:42

Because you're not someone they typically

35:44

see it just those kinds of things,

35:46

I can agree with you

35:48

there because for me, sometimes

35:51

I look like a, I probably look like a dog

35:53

hanging out of a car window when I see

35:55

a woman come floating past, or I'll see

35:57

someone on the bank and I'm like, hi

36:00

what's going on? What are you fishing for?

36:03

I live for this moment because if I see a girl

36:05

in the water and they see me are we friends now?

36:07

Like right away? And like the ones that killed

36:09

the five are the ones that just don't even look at you. They're like.

36:11

Trying to go look anywhere, but you, cause she's

36:13

like telling you, I know we're both women on

36:16

the water doing the same thing. We are not friends. So

36:18

I'm like, but why I want to be

36:20

your friend so bad so we can fish together maybe,

36:23

or, whatever it's like, are they there,

36:25

are they there with somebody where like, where

36:27

they like drug along out of their own want?

36:30

Like I know sometimes that's the case.

36:32

I feel like maybe those are the ones that are

36:34

the ones. Try not to look at you. She's I'm just here

36:36

for the fun of it. I'll probably never be back. Don't look

36:38

at me. We're not friends. I'll never know

36:41

you again. And

36:43

like you said, dog and dog with her head out

36:45

the window. I'm like, oh my God, It's every

36:48

time I'm like so excited. But I will always

36:50

say hi, yeah. If I see anyone on the water at guys,

36:52

girls, whoever I'll just say hi, greet them

36:54

because I want people to feel like I'm here now deal

36:57

with it. But also, hi, I'm a friend, I'm

36:59

here to be cool with you, and once you introduce

37:01

yourself that way, people are way more willing to be

37:03

like, oh, okay, we're a here's space down there and, go help

37:05

yourself kind of thing.

37:06

Definitely. So speaking

37:09

of going out, what

37:11

is your number one

37:13

item you can't forget?

37:16

Oh bourbon. I love whiskey bourbon,

37:18

scotch. But, and that's in

37:20

the rock. Neat

37:23

cause I'm drinking out of the bottle or out of a flask,

37:25

but and that's not for, that's not to get intoxicated

37:28

or anything that's to just enjoy

37:30

myself and just slow that anxiety

37:32

down a little bit and just try and relax

37:35

and then I can see things a little more clearly

37:37

and, I'm not in this heightened sense of catch

37:39

the fish or hurry up and get after. More

37:42

mellow. And especially when I'm like on floats with my

37:44

buddies, we're going to have some bourbon. We're just

37:46

going to have a good time and relax. We're not going to be

37:48

anxious, to be catching fish. If it happens.

37:51

But aside from that, if I'm with clients definitely

37:53

not drinking the bourbon, definitely staying professional.

37:55

Other than that, I would say definitely

37:57

a pair of polarized sunglasses and a hat,

38:00

because I can't tell you this,

38:03

the terrible times that I've gone on the water

38:05

without those things and just been, not happy.

38:07

My eyeballs or my retinas are burning

38:09

alive and or I'm just getting

38:12

such a tan on my head or

38:14

just the sun in my eyes, not wearing a hat.

38:16

Do you have a certain pair that your favorite?

38:18

Yeah, so I have three pairs

38:20

that I use. They just depend on the time

38:22

that I'm going out on the water. The ones I use most

38:24

commonly are my Oakleys or the Frogskins.

38:27

So they look like Ray-Bans, but they don't look like

38:29

the Oakley gas cans, they're not like the type

38:32

that across the face they look like.

38:34

Yeah. Yeah. They look like they look like like

38:37

I said, Ray bans. I like wearing those are super

38:39

chic. They're super well polarized.

38:41

I like using them. I have Kostas

38:44

that I did not buy. I went to a.

38:47

I think it was the Ft

38:49

three premiere. And if you bought

38:51

like raffle tickets, they raffled off prizes

38:54

and I want a free code for a free

38:56

pair of Kosta. So score. Yeah.

38:58

I'm not allowed to go to those raffles anymore with the guys.

39:01

I was one stuff they get mad. And then I have my pit

39:03

Vipers where I'm doing like a

39:05

macho man, Randy Savage goofy day.

39:07

That's just kinda where I'm at. I just wear the purple ones

39:09

and just kinda like rock out,

39:10

yeah nice. So

39:13

your five songs,

39:16

do you want to do a rundown and give us an explanation

39:18

of them?

39:20

I think the one that I'd like to start off with is

39:22

probably Barracuda by heart, in

39:25

my opinion, where they were way ahead of their time.

39:27

Just like very hardcore and just very

39:29

good base on them and a women's

39:31

singer, I'm just like, I can get behind this song

39:33

and it's very, I feel like women empowering

39:35

and it just got a good beat. I can get real piped to it, and

39:38

then we have bad girls by Mia.

39:41

I like to play that in the car with my my friends, when

39:43

I'm going out with them, we're having a girl's trip. I'm

39:45

playing that, we're getting hype. We're like we got a group

39:47

of girls or like I'm feeling the bad

39:49

girl. Yeah. The bad-ass

39:51

like feminine energy going on. So I play

39:53

that part of gold by Neil young.

39:55

I really liked that song. It makes me give, it gives

39:58

me that Western a kind of fly fishing vibe,

40:00

from like it's got it. And it's got

40:02

a good beat to it, to, it was like, I put that on with my

40:04

buddies. They like Neil young.

40:06

So we vibe out to that. See as I'm

40:08

trying to remember the name of the song unstoppable

40:13

by SIA. Yeah. That, that is such

40:15

an empowering song. think for either guys or

40:17

girls, but I just, I love Sia she has a great

40:19

voice. I feel like truly, at my peak,

40:22

after I've listened to that song, I'm so ready to hit the

40:24

water. These fish don't even know what's coming. And

40:26

then the real slim shady, just cause it's a crowd favorite.

40:28

Because I know I can wrap that whole thing

40:31

and I just, I have a good time

40:33

with it. So yeah. And then everyone

40:35

in the group usually knows the lyrics too

40:38

so we're all just wrapping it, bumping in the car

40:40

going towards the fishing spot. And I was actually listening

40:42

to April Volkis podcast one time,

40:45

and I forget who she was interviewing, but he

40:47

said, like a salmon

40:50

fishermen, enjoy some nice, like classical

40:52

music. They want like a fine scotch.

40:54

And they just want to like, where their loafers when they're not

40:56

in the water kind of thing. And but then the

40:58

cities, like he said, then it's steelhead fishermen come along.

41:01

And they're like with

41:03

their ghetto music and I'm like, that's me.

41:05

That's my music. I do that. So I

41:08

totally, he wasn't wrong. I resonated

41:10

with it, yeah. It's like a really, it isn't like a mixed

41:12

bag. It's interesting to see. But going

41:15

back to what I said earlier, I feel like all my friends

41:17

are like, you're such like an old man's soul. Cause

41:19

like you like to drink scotch and bourbon. You like

41:21

to fly fish and we'll catch you

41:23

out there, fly fishing, having

41:25

a sip of your whiskey and then maybe smoking

41:27

a cigar. And I'm like, yeah, that's pretty old man-ish

41:30

but then I remember that the young

41:32

kid blaring the music down the road until

41:34

the fishing spot playing the ghetto to get on music,

41:36

the best of both worlds in that case,

41:38

we can do it all right, old man souls

41:40

and still bump our way down there.

41:43

Absolutely. Yeah. A hundred percent.

41:46

One of the problems that you mentioned

41:48

around your home water is Creel

41:51

limits and poaching. That's

41:53

especially where I'm at. We see a lot

41:55

of that. We see a lot of what they call chucking

41:58

ducks. So people pulling

42:01

big old slabs weight throwing those off

42:03

of the front of center, pin rods and pulling

42:05

in. Yeah. Just dragging in fish backwards.

42:08

What can people learn about

42:10

being in the Appalachian area and respecting

42:12

those like creel limits, respecting

42:15

the nature around them.

42:18

Yeah. I'm just going over to the other states

42:20

and seeing how they do it, that they're doing it right. in

42:22

New York. Has

42:24

pretty strict regulations on fishing,

42:26

no two hooks because they saw people

42:29

for years, like just drifting it down there

42:31

and snagging the salmon and snagging the the steelhead

42:33

and brown trout. And they were like, yeah, no more

42:35

of that one hook. And it's there's a weight limit.

42:38

There's all in the game. Wardens actually come around

42:40

and check licensing where, as

42:42

opposed to my area, I haven't been checked for licensing

42:45

ever. Just never and I think

42:47

if they do that, it just keeps people

42:49

from poaching. You know what I mean? People are always

42:51

complaining. We don't have money for fishing bow. We

42:54

don't have money for department of natural resources.

42:56

And I'm like, oh, so you need, you guys need to file

42:58

fines then, because I can tell you 20 people that

43:00

deserve like a few of them, they don't check

43:02

licensing, but they spend a lot of money on

43:04

fish to stock the streams. We have trophy

43:06

trout waters, but the creel limit limited. Two

43:09

or four a day, a person I'm like that's a lot,

43:11

maybe one. And then we should have more sections

43:14

that are delayed harvest on the river. Not

43:17

a lot of delayed harvest sections on the river, especially

43:19

the ones that people have access to fish. Those

43:21

are open year round. I'm like people are just

43:24

fit, taken every fish out of the water

43:27

and taking it home, putting it in a freezer

43:29

and forgetting about it for a year.

43:30

And then it's all freezer burnt and they

43:32

just really just toss it or buried

43:35

in the garden.

43:35

Way too much of that. Just way too much of it.

43:37

We definitely need more regulations. And I think

43:40

that a lot of businesses are advocating for that

43:42

right now. Talking to department of natural

43:44

resources and talking to fish boat and

43:46

saying, Hey, this isn't working because we're not seeing a lot

43:48

of return. We're not seeing holdovers.

43:51

We're not seeing naturally reproducing fish,

43:53

which is what we want, it took us a while to clean up the,

43:55

my home river that we're on from acid

43:57

mine and just like terrible waste

43:59

problems coming from upstream. And

44:01

now that we've got it to where we can keep it. Year-round

44:05

I think that we need to have more regulations in place

44:07

to keep the water cleaner, to keep the fish

44:09

healthier and happier, and ultimately

44:12

just have it benefit us in the end. But

44:14

before that coming from West

44:17

Virginia university, right outside of it is watershed

44:19

called the cheat waters. Like cheating

44:22

on a test. Everyone keeps thinking, everyone

44:24

keeps saying, I'm saying cheap. No she like

44:27

C, H E a T. So they treat river

44:29

pours into the cheat lake. It's a

44:32

very large watershed and

44:34

as much work as we've done on

44:36

it, it still needs a ton of work. We're able

44:39

to hold some fish in there, but I don't think that

44:41

hold overs are doing too well. We've

44:43

had an, it was on national news

44:45

was having a huge issue

44:47

with it. This past year where we had a very

44:49

bad acid mine drainage into the river

44:52

and having to clean it up.

44:54

Yeah, it was very detrimental to a lot of life

44:57

in the river. We have an awesome foundation,

44:59

a nonprofit called friends of cheat.

45:01

They invite everyone to come out

45:03

and they have a river festival every year,

45:05

may this year. It's the first weekend of May 5th

45:07

through seventh. And if you've never gone

45:09

to before. Expect

45:12

everyone to be there and just have a good time

45:14

to get is it's such a big

45:17

festival. People from the west coast ask me all

45:19

the time. Like you've been to the Cheat Fest and I'm like, yes,

45:21

I've a few times have been the Cheat

45:23

Fest. It's just a good time. People go rafting,

45:25

fishing, hiking, mushroom

45:28

hunting. And we just camp there all weekend

45:30

and all the proceeds benefit a

45:32

Friends of Cheat so if you're interested,

45:35

come down, I'd love to host anybody that's

45:37

interested in coming and I'm volunteering

45:39

for it on Friday. So I'm getting,

45:42

doing parking to get people established in their campsites

45:44

and their parking situation. We'd love to have

45:46

a lot of people come out, even from your neck of the woods

45:49

from anywhere. It benefits the watershed

45:51

and honestly, it's just a great time.

45:54

It sounds like it, especially after almost

45:56

two years of we haven't been able to

45:58

gather it's been a long time.

46:01

Yeah. We have some, awesome live music.

46:04

I can't remember the last time I went to the live music, so we're

46:06

have a few bands that just play

46:08

mostly all day, Saturday,

46:10

some a Friday.

46:12

Just good vibes all around. Probably the

46:14

best people you'll meet in the world are at Cheat Fest

46:17

I don't know if they're like that year round. I think they're just at

46:19

their best at Cheat Fest.

46:21

It sounds like a good time. I'm definitely going to have

46:23

to check it out.

46:25

Yeah, absolutely. Please do for

46:27

sure.

46:29

Is there anything that

46:31

is on your mind that

46:33

you would like to

46:35

get out into the world in

46:37

terms of the fishing community?

46:40

There's a lot of people out there that are really interested

46:42

in fly fishing and they're not sure

46:44

where to start or how to go about it. And,

46:47

or maybe just want to take a trip just to see

46:49

if they like it. All I gotta

46:51

say is, do it, there's people out there

46:53

like you and me that are

46:55

imploring people to go out there

46:57

and try and give it a try and

47:00

see what they get from it. And there's

47:02

real life people that have benefited

47:04

from it, mentally, emotionally, psychologically,

47:08

and, career wise and everything

47:10

else in between, it's a whole thing. It's a whole

47:12

life thing. There's so many aspects to fly

47:15

fishing. It's so hard to pinpoint pin

47:17

down one, one aspect, there's different

47:19

types of fly fishing and then there's flight tying

47:22

and there's like casting. There's

47:24

so much room in the industry. I feel like. Like

47:27

for the general individual, there

47:30

is space for you, there, we have something

47:32

for you, if even if you don't think

47:34

it, maybe you're super great at casting. Maybe

47:36

you're super good at catching fish. Maybe you're super

47:39

crafty and really good at tying flies. There's, this

47:41

is for you and we want you to be there. And

47:44

that's just what I would say to people that were interested

47:46

in maybe thinking about trying fly fishing.

47:49

So if you had to

47:51

choose what

47:54

would be the one snack you would bring

47:56

with you on every fishing trip?

47:58

Probably the same fishing snack that

48:00

I just rely on. Every time I'm on the water, it's

48:02

like a day or two long fishing trip with my buddies,

48:05

we survive off of three things. Beef

48:08

jerky. Black coffee

48:11

and brown liquor snack

48:14

wise, I'd have to save beef jerky.

48:16

What's one safety item that

48:18

you would suggest every angler

48:20

has.

48:20

That's a good one. It depends on if you're in

48:22

a boat or if you're wet

48:24

waiting. If you are wet

48:27

waiting, I would, they're not wet waiting. I'm sorry, regular waiting.

48:29

I would suggest maybe a river

48:31

staff, the hold yourself kind of in place,

48:33

give you like a third point of contact. I know a

48:35

lot of clients of mine use them. They're great. Especially

48:38

when you're fishing a river, like the yacht Ganey, it's

48:40

like walking over like bowling balls,

48:42

and moving water. It's not fun. If

48:44

you're in a boat, definitely a a good, not

48:47

like not a bad quality, but a

48:49

good quality PFD make it look

48:51

good. You might as well, it's going to save your life at some

48:53

point, maybe.

48:54

And then what would be the one

48:56

fly that you would always have in your box? No matter what,

49:01

that's a hard one. That is a hard one.

49:03

I'd say it's between a couple and it depends on what

49:05

I'm fishing for honestly. wooly

49:07

bugger, that's so diverse, I've used that

49:09

for bass trout, for everything

49:12

I've caught a ton of different fish on it, and

49:15

it works most of the time. Sometimes the

49:17

fish are feeling aggressive. They'll take the wooly bugger but

49:19

if I'm just fishing for trout or steelhead, maybe like

49:21

a Frenchie or a proto gone that just,

49:24

it just always gets the job done. I've caught steelhead

49:26

and trout on those. And if

49:30

especially hard keeping the bigger fish on with the barbless

49:32

for sure. But they, I don't know

49:34

what it is. They just, they love it. I use the

49:36

very 0.8 millimeter bead heads, the light

49:38

pink ones. Nice. Just,

49:41

it's always a snack.

49:42

So how would people get ahold of.

49:44

Yeah, so I had a lot of exciting stuff in

49:46

the works, so it's not totally official

49:48

yet, but I want to offer a different

49:51

all-inclusive weekend for people. So I'm

49:53

working on that for the fall right now. And to no

49:55

surprise to you. It's a bourbon weekend

49:58

where we offer tastings

50:01

and a bourbon infused dinner.

50:03

And the dinner is by

50:06

one of my good buddies who was a head chef at

50:08

a bourbon restaraunt makes a four-course

50:10

dinner bourbon infused. And

50:13

we also have local distillers that

50:15

distill bourbon, and they

50:18

supply us with some bourbon for you guys to do

50:20

a tasting in the afternoon, a Saturday

50:22

cabins included lunch and

50:24

dinner and breakfast included and

50:26

guiding included and all that too. It's a very

50:28

unique service that I'm excited to try and

50:30

get going for this fall, because I don't know anywhere

50:33

else that offers something like that. And I

50:35

find that a lot of people that are in the five-ish industry

50:37

are looking to get into the five fishing industry are like,

50:39

I really like whiskey fly fishing just might be

50:42

my thing. To stay up to date on my content,

50:44

Silver Hen Fly Co. Instagram,

50:47

for sure. Or you can reach out to me. My name

50:49

is Krista Mariash Gianni on Instagram

50:51

and post a lot of wacky content. So if you're looking for

50:53

more of the professional aspect, just go to my guide

50:55

page because it gets routed.

50:57

It gets rowdy on my Instagram sometimes. So

51:00

a lot of times I hear you I love your poster.

51:02

Hey, I saw you and you were doing this

51:04

and. Just keep

51:07

it up.

51:08

Yeah. Yeah. I feel I use that platform

51:10

sometimes the whole people accountable and

51:13

some people are like, wow, that's weird. And I'm like,

51:15

you know what? It works because everyone

51:18

there, everything that I complain about usually has a good resolution

51:21

to it. If I'm calling somebody out or a group of

51:23

people out or venting my woes

51:25

of being a business owner, I have

51:27

all these people that love and care about me

51:29

and they come to me and they're like, we're so proud of you,

51:31

keep doing what you're doing. Even people

51:33

that are, have been in the industry, in my area

51:35

for 15 or more years, they're like keep

51:37

doing you and keep grinding, it's worth it in the end. And

51:40

I'm like, that means so much because

51:42

I have so many doubts every day. So

51:44

yeah, I, I definitely have an outreach to

51:47

my clients on that platform as well, and my

51:49

friends and just a good place for me to

51:51

to get out my frustrations or my grievances,

51:53

but my professional page to show you, this is the beautiful

51:56

part of it though. This is what you don't. This is the

51:58

parts you want to see little

52:01

though, the somewhat more polished,

52:04

I think. Did you

52:07

Frank and quirky

52:09

on one side and the only other very

52:11

professional and very polished and very spoken

52:14

well. So it's

52:16

like a jacket. It's a Jacquelyn high thing.

52:18

If you want the Jackal go to one, go to the other

52:20

page,

52:20

thank you. Thank you so Once

52:23

again, we want to thank Krista for

52:25

joining us on loop to loop

52:28

this week. We are so

52:30

excited to see the attendance

52:32

at cheat first. I will

52:34

also be joining her there this

52:36

week. For a really

52:39

great time and potentially

52:41

some onsite recorded.

52:44

Episodes. During

52:46

cheap first. So if

52:48

you're curious about Christa's

52:50

mission to get more

52:53

women, LGBTQ

52:55

or people of color. Onto

52:58

the water, please, please,

53:00

please go check her out. On

53:02

Instagram at silver hen

53:04

fly co all one

53:07

word. I hope you enjoyed

53:09

this episode. If you did, please

53:11

go ahead and give us a rating. Give

53:14

us a review. And

53:16

if you loved it, pass it along

53:18

to a friend or a family member that

53:20

may be fly curious. Loop

53:23

to loop is a mindful trout

53:25

production.