Episode Transcript
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0:01
Hello, and welcome back
0:04
to loop to loop. We have
0:06
taken a slight hiatus to
0:08
go wander around the
0:10
countryside of Michigan
0:13
catching trout. And.
0:17
Getting out and fishing as much as possible.
0:19
This week's episode, we're talking
0:22
with Zach Pope. From
0:24
trout insights, which
0:27
is the company. That creates
0:29
and manages trout routes.
0:32
If you're not aware of this app. Is
0:35
a great way to navigate. Navigate
0:37
new water. Water. And also
0:40
find new places to
0:42
fish specifically for trout.
0:45
I really enjoy this app. Since
0:47
it helps me find boat launches. Gives
0:50
me insights on regulation
0:53
and also is really handy on
0:55
understanding where public land is.
0:59
I hope you enjoy our conversation
1:02
is we talk about. The
1:04
enjoyment of fly fishing. And
1:07
really why. Good
1:09
tools. That are affordable
1:12
are important. So let's
1:15
dig in. Sweet. Alright.
1:17
We are excited today. We
1:19
have Zach Pope from trout insights,
1:22
which is the company that
1:24
works on trout routes. If any of you
1:26
ever tried it today. Welcome Zach.
1:29
Thank you for joining us. Thanks
1:31
so much for having me. All right. We
1:33
are. We're curious, Zach, how did you
1:36
get into fly fishing and
1:38
what do you really like about it in terms of
1:40
everyday. Practice.
1:44
Yeah. So I got into trout fishing.
1:46
Specifically fly fishing for me about
1:49
15 years ago.
1:52
We were cleaning out the garage
1:54
of my grandpa who passed way before.
1:56
I ever was born, so
1:58
I never met him, but I saw this crazy
2:00
looking very long, very stiff.
2:03
Flyer out in the garage. And then I'd
2:05
always had this appreciation. And
2:08
this envy of these people that do this fly fishing.
2:10
I sat and got really excited
2:13
and enamored with it and picked it up and
2:15
started self-teaching myself for,
2:17
honestly it was several years. And
2:19
I think the thing that I really just fell in
2:21
love with is that. For me, it
2:23
brought me to places that I normally never
2:25
would have otherwise been to. It's a really
2:27
big, like exploratory. Concept
2:30
behind fly fishing where, you find yourself these
2:32
gorgeous valleys are Meadows. And
2:35
for me, it's, it honestly is not about catching fish.
2:37
It's really about finding yourself in new places
2:39
and exploring. So I've been doing it for 15 years. I'm still
2:42
pretty, pretty pretty terrible at
2:44
it. But I'm getting better and it's a learning process
2:46
for everyone for kind of. For kind of life. Yeah, happy
2:48
to be here. And again, thanks for having me. Yeah,
2:50
thanks. Thanks for joining us. You said you
2:52
found your grandpa's rat in the garage. Was
2:55
that your first fly rod? I
2:57
wish I could say that I had
2:59
that rod for seven years and caught my
3:01
first trout on it. I kid you not,
3:04
this thing was like a metal
3:06
rod. It was like this. For
3:08
those folks that know, the, some of the technical
3:11
terminology, there's like a weight concept
3:13
behind a fly rod, or it's essentially, it talks
3:15
about how stiff the rod is. This thing was
3:17
like a metal rod. It was
3:19
just unusable. It was. Comical.
3:22
So really what happened is I took the fly right
3:24
out. I got really interested. I went to a fly shop.
3:26
They told me to. Essentially
3:28
throw it away and get anything other
3:30
than that. So I got a basically a really
3:33
low-cost starter kit. For ELA
3:35
a hundred bucks or something for the rod, the reel
3:37
and in the line. Which for me, honestly,
3:39
I'm actually a big proponent of, for beginners
3:41
because they're not perfect. They're not the most
3:44
high-tech, but man, they'll get general water.
3:46
So that my first flight. It was one of those starter kits
3:48
you get at bass pro shops or Dallas. And
3:51
those starter kits are awesome and it
3:53
they're nice because they are versatile and
3:55
you can get out and really try any water.
3:58
What was some of the first water that.
4:00
You tried fly fishing on. Yeah,
4:03
I'm actually based in Minneapolis
4:05
and Minnesota. And so I spent a lot of time.
4:08
In Southeast Minnesota, Southwest, Wisconsin.
4:11
That's what they call the Driftless area.
4:13
Probably 10 years ago. It was not as well known.
4:15
I think now it's getting a little bit more well-known
4:18
but these are pretty classic spring creeks.
4:20
They're small creeks. It's a really unique or
4:22
this area. And again, for me, half
4:24
the time I had finished, it was really just essentially
4:27
driving around. Since I didn't really truly
4:29
know how to fly fish or some of the technical aspects.
4:31
These are small streams. They're. Six to
4:34
at most. 20, maybe 30 feet
4:36
wide. Typically not a lot of crowds
4:39
pretty, pretty high. Preschool
4:41
key touchy fish. But there's a lot
4:43
of farms, a lot of Meadows pretty cool stuff.
4:45
No, don't those don't. In the drift
4:47
list, don't those disappear, like you'll have
4:49
a Creek or a river that will come up
4:51
for a few, like a mile
4:53
or two, and then it just goes back under water.
4:56
Yeah it's really a crazy area. You'll be
4:58
tracking a stream or blue lighting and,
5:01
you'll be seeing this. A hundred CFS stream
5:03
and, carrying it around and going from bridge to bridge. And
5:06
I don't know where it's gone. It's dry. And
5:08
because they're, spring-fed, they go. They have
5:10
this. In some places it's really
5:12
crazy how advanced the tunnel and
5:14
the cave systems are underneath, but essentially
5:17
the streams will go under the ground and we'll go.
5:19
Deep underground, where typically they're actually cool.
5:22
That's kind of part of what makes them a great trout
5:24
stream as they go under the ground, become
5:26
the spring and come back up, let you know, later
5:28
three miles down and they had this really
5:30
cool kind of cooling effect. And
5:33
then that's part of what makes the Driftless so cool. But
5:36
it's very odd as a new angler, as a, as
5:38
an angler, new to the area, it's like, where the heck did this
5:40
truck string go? Yeah. You're just
5:42
walking and then it just disappears. You're like, oh,
5:44
okay. So that's probably
5:46
what intrigued you to
5:49
go out and really explore is in
5:52
Wisconsin and Minnesota, you guys don't
5:54
have a consistent, it doesn't come to a head
5:56
or a confluence. It just. It
5:59
disappears. Yeah,
6:01
the whole spring fed like ecosystem
6:04
of the Driftless is definitely really interesting.
6:06
But honestly, when you're first getting
6:08
started and all, is your environment.
6:11
It's, that's not what really intrigued
6:13
me because that's just what I became. I came to know
6:15
as the standard. And really
6:17
when I started going out west and, I guess
6:19
a little bit out east, those rivers became pretty
6:21
odd to me because they're seasonally.
6:23
Very. They're very different in the foam
6:25
or just the spring versus the summer. Whereas
6:28
in the Driftless, it's incredibly consistent
6:30
outside of, rain events or some marginal
6:32
snow events. But really what really
6:34
kept me going the first couple of years
6:37
is that the more in tune
6:39
you are with your surroundings and
6:41
the more. You pay attention
6:43
to really the most detailed.
6:46
Natural aspects of your surroundings, the better you
6:49
are, the more effective you are at. Your
6:51
goal, which is eventually to catch fish. For me,
6:53
it was more exploring, but it
6:55
really is a activity or a sport
6:57
that pushes you to be more present. And
7:00
that is a thing that I think all of us
7:02
could always work on. And for me, I definitely strive
7:04
to be more present and. Really
7:06
fly fishing and the things that make
7:08
you good at fly fishing is what helped me be
7:10
more present. So these are things
7:12
like getting to the stream and intentionally
7:15
not fishing for an hour and really
7:17
just sitting. Like literally
7:19
just sitting there staring at your screenings.
7:21
And the longer that you sit there and the longer that you pay attention
7:23
to. The bugs and the rocks and the water.
7:26
Really the better that you get in, the more precedent that you
7:28
get. So those are the things that really grew
7:31
drew me in. The first, probably five
7:33
years. Nice. So did you find yourself
7:35
maybe like sitting on a bank, overturning
7:38
rocks to see what kind of nips
7:40
or like what you maybe had in your
7:42
fly box that matched. What
7:44
was in your hand, on the rock? Yeah.
7:47
Eventually, the, a really good process.
7:50
Eventually as to yeah. Go and flip over some
7:52
rocks and look at what kind of bugs are there and
7:55
see if you can learn about what's going on
7:57
in the water and potentially start matching your
7:59
flies to, what's under the rocks. You
8:01
can also look at, what's
8:03
going on under the rocks in terms of what might
8:05
happen later down, later in the day.
8:08
So you can look at. Or the bugs starting to
8:10
come out of their shells. Are they starting to hatch a little bit?
8:13
There's a lot of things that you can read, but for me, honestly,
8:15
it was, I just really loved learning about what bugs
8:17
are in there. Are there bugs under the rocks? What
8:19
kinds of rocks are they like? But also
8:22
there's a lot of stuff that goes on above the water.
8:24
Outside of the hatching insects that
8:26
we spend a lot of time on, I learned from a guide
8:29
in I think it was Colorado. On
8:31
the frying pan, he really taught me to
8:34
look very carefully at spiderwebs.
8:36
Not only because, Spiders are cool. And they're interested
8:38
in, they are a food source for trout,
8:41
but you can learn a lot about what kinds
8:43
of bugs are flying around in that area around that
8:45
same time of day, around that same day.
8:48
You can learn from. From
8:51
like spider webs from the racks from,
8:53
there's like mice tracks and look at, which is a whole nother
8:56
hour discussion. But. Mostly
8:58
and can turn into that, that could turn into a half-day
9:01
talk for me. I love. My gosh, I've
9:04
just been scratching the surface. So I think mostly
9:07
I would have questions for you if we started talking about it. Yeah,
9:09
that's, it's so fun to be able to go
9:11
out in the middle of the night. And a lot
9:13
of times when we're new anglers, we forget
9:16
that trout, especially trout
9:18
are primarily nocturnal creatures.
9:20
So to go out at night
9:23
when we're almost handicapped in there,
9:25
they're in their element is so fun.
9:28
So I have a very random story
9:30
that will go off on a tangent on real quick. I've always
9:32
been like really curious about
9:34
this concept of like mice fishing, where.
9:37
Yeah. Especially if you're new to. Typically
9:40
you think of these tiny little insects and
9:42
there you're such a casting the weight of your line.
9:44
And these tiny little things, and these fish
9:47
come up and eat these tiny little insects, and
9:49
all of a sudden you start thinking about throwing like a
9:52
mouse pattern, the size of your hand, and it just breaks
9:54
your mind. It's very hard to think about. And
9:56
the reality is typically these huge
9:58
trout will really become predatory at night.
10:00
And that's really when you're supposed to do most fishing.
10:03
I've tried it a few times at night, but the one
10:05
and only time I've ever had success.
10:07
Throwing a massive mouse pattern for trout.
10:10
Was on this one, we'll name it,
10:12
but on this river in Colorado, in the middle
10:14
of a sunny day, we're talking like sun
10:17
was probably right straight
10:19
above me. We're talking like two o'clock in the afternoon.
10:22
There's this whole with this tree
10:24
overhanging the whole. And
10:26
I think it was like, I think it was a black caddis hatch.
10:29
At the moment and they were just being really aggressive. And I said, you
10:31
know what? Screw it. They're being really aggressive.
10:33
Maybe I have a shot. I just tossed,
10:36
Literally talks to this giant mouse pattern and started
10:38
twitching it. And the only time I've ever
10:40
had a trout today, a. Top
10:42
water mouse pattern. That is unbelievable
10:45
during. During the day. I've
10:48
taken some out and I've been a little
10:50
bit brave during the day. I've never
10:52
gotten a bite. It's always been when
10:55
I'm at my worst and they're at
10:57
their best. And that's
10:59
what you would expect because a lot of times,
11:01
middle of the day, there's a lot of sun, the Fisher
11:03
spooky. They don't come up to hit, 20
11:06
atoms, but all of a sudden you're throwing like
11:08
a size zero, a mousepad
11:11
or whatever. They are. So it was
11:13
pretty cool. I've never done it ever since I've tried
11:15
it at night and I've gotten nothing but branches.
11:17
A pretty cool experience. That is too cool.
11:19
So it's it's almost like one of those. Meditative
11:23
like practice moments where you were. So
11:25
in, in the moment of, the Fisher
11:27
just being aggressive and you
11:29
realized it. Let's see if they'll play with
11:31
something huge. Yeah.
11:34
I think it, it comes down to what your goals
11:37
are when you're on the water. But, for me, I
11:39
had already gotten a few on this black cat
11:41
attach I had already gotten that experience.
11:44
And I could've stayed there and, just. Completely
11:47
tripping up the numbers and gotten, back to back.
11:49
But I, one experience I've never had
11:51
at that moment was catching something on a mouse pattern.
11:54
For my goals and in terms of getting new experiences
11:56
and learning a lot while I'm on the water, I said, I would
11:58
love to learn. If these things will
12:00
hit a mouse in the middle of the day. And I don't
12:02
know what I learned from that, but. It definitely
12:04
worked. I. I guess there's. Always
12:06
exceptions to the rules. Yeah,
12:10
I've heard that. I've definitely heard that. That's
12:12
awesome. Yeah, I can
12:15
completely. Relate
12:17
to that story because while
12:20
I was out west or. In
12:22
West Virginia last week. Everyone,
12:26
everyone out there is really big into
12:28
nymph fishing and we're in this tiny
12:30
Creek and. Up
12:32
in the mountains, in this tiny Creek,
12:34
all the other rivers were blown out and,
12:37
my friends, I was with they're throwing
12:39
nymphs and I finally,
12:41
I got stuck too many times with the indicator
12:44
rag and I was like, you know what? I
12:46
need to go back to My micro streamers
12:48
and the only fish we saw
12:50
the entire day was me
12:52
stripping a little teeny tiny
12:55
like size eight hook
12:57
streamer. That
12:59
was awesome. It's so funny
13:02
because it's like you have so many
13:04
rules you want to follow and then with fly
13:06
fishing, you can just decide one
13:08
afternoon. You're like, I'm going to break it and see what
13:10
happens. Yeah,
13:12
I think that's a really cool. Cool, like concept
13:15
is that. I go out west,
13:18
I think to some of those technical tailwaters
13:20
they have these incredibly specific
13:22
rules. Sets and like instructions,
13:25
like there's a couple of Tailwater in Colorado
13:27
that have these mice, a shrimp. It's like
13:29
there's three waters. Apparently the country
13:31
that had them, they tell you, you will not catch
13:33
anything unless you have an incredibly
13:35
perfect Drake free drift. It's
13:38
gotta be weighted. It's gotta be a size 18.5,
13:41
my SIS shrimp white. And if
13:43
you don't have that, then you know, you're completely never
13:45
gonna catch anything. But if you do you'll catch, 24
13:47
inch, whatever. And the rules
13:49
get really intense out there. And sometimes it's good to just
13:52
like bringing your intuition, bringing your observation
13:54
and try something different. So it sounds
13:57
like it worked well for you there. Yeah.
13:59
So it's almost A lot of the guides are almost
14:01
like professors. Would you say.
14:04
Yeah, Of course, that's there's a lot
14:06
of different guides out there, different types of guides. But
14:08
I think, my observation is definitely a west specifically,
14:10
like Colorado is some of those waters
14:13
are so technical and they see so many anglers
14:15
that they just, they tell, what works and
14:17
what has worked for them. And that typically can
14:19
be, that the ticket, but sometimes it is
14:21
nice to have an outsider's perspective come in and
14:23
bring again their intuition and their observation.
14:26
To try something new, but especially with
14:28
the guys out there, cause they spend so much time out
14:30
there. They see it and they see their
14:32
surroundings more than anyone else. So they're definitely
14:34
the professor type. Yeah.
14:38
So when you're traveling a lot of times
14:40
what are you primarily looking
14:42
for? When you're
14:44
out hunting fish, are there certain locations?
14:47
Are there certain opportunities
14:50
that you go to in order to collect
14:52
new information? Yeah.
14:55
You don't like typically try to find there's
14:58
a sweet spot of like rivers
15:00
that I know are productive because
15:02
they have some knowledge about them, either
15:05
from books or from online
15:07
here and there. But also I
15:09
try to find places that are not obviously going to
15:11
have a lot of traffic. And so it's
15:14
a good segue into what I do for work, which is travel
15:16
routes. When I first started fly fishing,
15:19
I was really enamored by this
15:21
idea that you get to go travel
15:23
and basically be somewhere new every day. You get
15:25
to find yourself in someone's private farm
15:28
because they have an easement or you get to go to
15:30
a state park because there's a trout stream. And
15:32
I love that idea of it, but I also
15:34
felt like there was this
15:37
big barrier. Of you. Lack
15:39
of information out there as far as where
15:41
are these trout streams and where are the
15:44
public access points that I can legally
15:46
get to, to get onto this
15:48
water? And I spent so
15:50
much of my time manually mapping
15:53
my own data. Going and hand
15:55
drying things and Google earth
15:57
and doing a lot of notes in my notebook.
15:59
Yeah. I noticed there are
16:02
definitely certain tools that
16:04
most states provide and they're all. They're
16:06
all useful, but they're also all
16:08
lacking in some way or another.
16:11
And for me, traveling is such a
16:13
big part of my fly fishing experience,
16:15
specifically across state lines that I
16:18
don't want to have to relearn
16:20
all the tools from one state to the next.
16:23
And so pretty early on, I decided that there was
16:25
this big missing opportunity
16:27
in a really good mapping system for
16:29
specifically made for trout anglers.
16:32
And honestly these days I would love
16:34
do, tell you that I don't use something
16:36
like trout routes, but I actually do. I
16:38
see the tool as well. Like to
16:40
me, I it's such a valuable
16:43
resource and, once
16:45
you pair it. So if you're a new
16:47
Adler, a lot of times what we're looking
16:49
at is the flows of water or CFM.
16:52
So how much water is being
16:54
pushed through there. So when you pair
16:56
something like trout routes, if you can find
16:58
gauges, which a lot of these rivers
17:01
you can't, once you get so far into kind
17:03
of the smaller water. Between
17:05
your gauges. An app
17:07
like trout routes and then
17:09
understanding stocking schedules. If
17:11
the state you're in or stocking. You
17:14
can start to hunt the fish. Yeah.
17:18
There, there is no shortage of water out
17:21
there. I think that's, I really do feel
17:23
like the fly fishing sport. Still
17:25
has a lot of unnecessary barriers
17:27
to it where I think there's a lot of really
17:30
good people that would make for great
17:32
conservationists that would be in our sport.
17:34
If they had less intimidation
17:37
or less barriers to get into it. And
17:39
one of those barriers is just like clean,
17:42
clear access to information. I think there's still
17:44
a lot of barriers. Some of them are unintentional.
17:47
Some of them are intentional. And
17:49
that's our mission at trunk routes is to make
17:51
access to information more accessible.
17:54
And through, through really good maps. So we have
17:56
all the stream gauges. We have all the public access. We
17:58
have all the rivers. Pretty much
18:00
everything that you would ever want to need. Gotta have.
18:02
And I typically look for like when I go
18:04
out, if I were going to, Michigan, I try to look
18:06
for. Typically spring-fed creeks
18:08
that are, a class one or
18:11
higher in our system. And
18:13
I look for, I really. Like where
18:16
you have the stream, you follow it way up into
18:18
the headwaters. And then the road stops. There's typically
18:20
like a parking lot and a trail that goes way up. And
18:22
typically like most people, I shouldn't say most,
18:24
but typically most people don't go very
18:26
far from their car. And so if
18:28
you find those headwaters where there's this, the road
18:31
stops and there's a little parking lot
18:33
and you can hike your way up a mile in. You
18:35
won't find a soul. It's great fishing.
18:37
I try to find those kinds of sweet spots. Yeah.
18:41
Yeah. So with those sorts of class
18:43
one and two you're looking
18:45
for really the more of
18:47
a limited access where you're
18:49
going to work for the fifth. You're
18:51
going to, you're going to be having. Having
18:53
an adventure for the afternoon. Yeah,
18:57
and I think it it always will come back to your goals,
18:59
but I think a lot of us are looking
19:01
for not just fish in hand, they're
19:03
looking for. An adventure. And experienced
19:06
getting last dozen bad. And yeah.
19:08
There are plenty of trout streams that actually go
19:10
through. Cities and towns. There's like the blue river
19:13
in Silverthorne, Colorado,
19:15
which is a pretty classic there's strip malls literally
19:17
next to one of the best trout streams in the state.
19:20
But I think for a lot of us, we look for.
19:22
Places that are only accessible via a
19:24
one mile trail. Because there's gonna be less people.
19:27
You have to work for the trout and it's gonna be that much
19:29
more engaging in nature. You're gonna
19:31
be that much more present. Yeah. Yeah. Those
19:33
are the best places to go out and,
19:35
maybe take yourself a little lunch or
19:37
a pack of snack and just
19:40
relax and watch what's
19:42
going on around you. Because especially
19:45
if you live in a town or you're. Around
19:47
other people. It's a break. I
19:51
was actually gonna say that too, is that
19:54
one thing that I started trying doing is,
19:56
and this is probably weird. Hopefully
19:59
not, but I've actually started
20:01
going to trout streams without
20:03
a fly rod. And I'll literally just pack like
20:05
a coffee maker in a pack
20:07
and go like snack. And it sounds
20:10
out, but actually it's really interesting because you go
20:12
to a trout stream. You're really excited to fly fish,
20:14
but you don't know your flight around. And so it forces
20:16
you to really truly be present. Sit
20:18
there for an hour, learn a lot
20:20
about what you'll see plenty of trout and you'll see plenty of insects.
20:23
And you'll be forced into this like level
20:25
of presence that you probably didn't have before. And
20:28
so I've been playing with that idea a little bit. The last, like
20:30
two years, that's been a cool experience. Yeah.
20:33
Some afternoons, there's nothing beats
20:35
just taking like. A sandwich
20:37
or some sort of snack with you and
20:40
just sitting there and watching them. Cause I that's
20:42
how I've learned the most over really
20:44
the past two years is having access
20:47
to public land as well as some of my own
20:50
little slice of private land. And you just
20:52
sit there and. You're curious.
20:54
You're like, what do you guys do? If no, one's around
20:56
with a fly rod. What's going on? Another
21:00
thing that I started playing with is bringing binoculars.
21:02
You go there, you go to a street and you're sitting there
21:04
and that's awesome. But if you add into
21:06
that, the nodular. You can really start studying
21:08
those trout and. It's funny. The
21:11
way that you said that it's almost like you want to spend a day
21:13
in the life of a trout and just like figure out.
21:15
What do they do? What are they looking at? How do
21:17
they move? What time of day do they move the most,
21:19
that kind of stuff. There's. There's just so much you can learn. Yeah.
21:22
And like you said, if you're bringing by now circulars
21:25
and you can look at your birds. Because
21:27
if you're noticing any Hawks
21:30
off sprayer, Eagles, You're
21:32
probably sitting somewhere where
21:34
there they want to fish. So
21:36
you're getting a bird's
21:38
eye view of what's going on. Yeah,
21:41
that's a great point. Great point. Yeah,
21:43
I can't tell you how many. Times I've been low
21:46
hold by an Eagle sitting like.
21:49
And the thing is I don't have binoculars.
21:52
I'm not thinking like a fish.
21:54
I'm thinking like a human and I'm
21:56
out there. Like, why is nothing there right
21:58
there? Why is nothing biting? And
22:00
then finally, after so long, you see
22:02
the bird takeoff and you're like they
22:05
saw it. How did I not see that?
22:08
It's so crazy how good their eyesight is.
22:10
I can't even comprehend it. Yeah.
22:12
Yeah, that, and if you walk up, just,
22:15
if you're trying to sneak up on a trail, And
22:18
you're on the bank. They can feel it. And they
22:20
know it's they're like, we're out, there's
22:22
a fisherman here. Yup. I
22:24
think that's like one of the, there's a couple
22:26
of. Like lessons that I
22:28
had to work through when I first started
22:31
fly fishing net. Can be frustrating when
22:33
you're first getting started and you can't quite figure out what you're
22:35
doing wrong. And one of them is it's so easy
22:37
to Spookfish. You might spend all your
22:39
time going to classes and fly casting classes
22:41
and. Entomology and you might be
22:43
really good at everything, except for the fact
22:45
that when you walk up to that stream, the fish were gone before
22:48
you had a chance to start. And so
22:50
being really mindful of, your presence
22:52
and how it's affecting the
22:55
trout and whether or not they're aware of you
22:57
is a huge lesson for kind of a
22:59
newcomer. Sometimes you literally have to
23:01
crawl 25 yards from AFT
23:03
bank all the way near the stream to cast,
23:06
just so you're not, speaking on. Which I've
23:08
done a few times. Yeah,
23:10
I don't know how often I crawl
23:12
through the river. I probably destroy
23:14
more waiters than most people because I'm
23:17
like on my knees, like scooting down river,
23:19
trying not to make my presence
23:21
known. It's honestly so
23:25
would you say for a beginner angler
23:28
in their getting started if they're looking
23:30
for fish, maybe warm water is a good
23:32
way to. To get your fix on
23:34
fish and in fraud are really about honing
23:36
in your skills. Yeah,
23:39
I really would. And I think, I've heard people
23:41
talk about that as a suggestion and I could
23:43
not agree more. If you have
23:45
the fortune to have a warm water
23:47
lake near you. It's a great place
23:50
to get your feet wet with a fly rod. And it's
23:52
specifically if you can go to the shoreline
23:55
of a other warm water. Lake. Between
23:58
say whatever may to September,
24:00
October and get some panfish, you
24:02
can cask get the feel for what it's
24:04
like to cast a line. Throw some
24:06
sort of little like spider or popper or whatever
24:09
and you can catch panfish and you'll be hooked. And
24:11
from there it's really about, like you said,
24:13
learning the entomology and kind of fine tuning.
24:16
The concept of going from Stillwater to moving water,
24:18
which is a big job, but it's much
24:21
easier and much more enjoyable if you
24:23
get your feet, but in a. At a warm water
24:26
lake first, not to mention
24:28
a delicious dinner. I've
24:30
never really gotten into eating fish.
24:33
I'm definitely a catch release person, not because,
24:35
I'm, I have some sort of philosophy against
24:37
keeping fish, but I just a picky eater. Never really got
24:39
into it. Yeah, I can't tell you
24:41
how many times I've tried. I've traded
24:44
in going trout fishing for I'm
24:46
like, you know what, some bluegill
24:48
on a frying pan. That's going
24:50
to hit the spot tonight for dinner. That's
24:53
awesome. So in
24:55
terms of using
24:58
an app and getting on public
25:00
land Really? What
25:02
has that provided? You
25:04
as well as people using your app. Because
25:08
public lands can be really intimidating
25:11
to know where to go or what to do.
25:15
Yeah, I think before you even get to public land,
25:17
I think one thing that, that I learned
25:19
that I think people learn using any
25:21
tool, whether it's, trout routes. Which
25:24
is our mapping tool or a state
25:26
tool is that there's a lot of trout water out
25:28
there more than most people realize. And
25:30
it's easy to know about the top 10
25:33
streams in Michigan or Colorado
25:35
or wherever. But I think a lot of people
25:37
don't realize that there's trunk water pretty close
25:39
to you. Nine times out of 10, maybe seven
25:41
times out of 10, unless you're in. Kansas
25:44
has four streams or something. And so
25:46
that's number one is just realizing and being
25:48
educated on where Trump streams are,
25:50
which is one of our, one of our main xenografts.
25:53
Repetitions as we spend a ton of time. Mapping
25:55
out the specific lines of all the trout
25:57
streams, cold water streams that can't have stocked
26:00
or wild trout. But then when you
26:02
add into that, this whole world
26:04
of private and public access, it
26:06
can be. Extremely intimidating and very
26:08
complex. And it can take the fun
26:11
out of the exploratory
26:13
aspect of fly fishing. 'cause
26:15
sometimes signs, sometimes you don't. Sometimes
26:17
you see cars, sometimes you don't. It's
26:20
just really hard to navigate. And it's one reason why
26:22
people keep going to the same spot
26:24
is because they're nervous to go somewhere new. And
26:26
for those reasons, along with many others, as we
26:28
felt, it was really useful
26:31
to spend a lot of time mapping out where all the
26:33
public land parcels are and then
26:35
maybe creating some more More
26:37
obvious. Annotations for, where the parking
26:39
lots are and where different access
26:41
points are and works like shops are. So
26:44
I think when you put it all together, it can be, it
26:46
can really, again, lower the barrier to
26:48
understand where to find trout and where to publicly
26:51
access them. The last, the other thing that I would say is
26:53
that each state is a very different with
26:55
what the legal access. R so
26:57
like a Minnesota, Wisconsin, that it's a fairly,
27:00
you know what I would call like a friendly approach
27:02
to legal access laws. Number
27:04
one number two is there's a really robust
27:07
easement program. Where, the
27:09
state or other agencies have
27:11
acquired. Essentially access
27:13
corridors to T trout streams. And
27:16
it's just an amazing program. It really provides
27:18
hundreds and hundreds of miles of public access
27:20
that you just don't have to worry about.
27:22
Landowners being, concerned about you being on their property
27:25
and all those challenging complex.
27:27
And so the Midwest is really good for that. Some states
27:29
like Colorado and there's a few out
27:32
west, or sorry, out east that are really
27:34
touchy with private access. Yeah. So
27:37
that's what I was going to ask next is,
27:39
Michigan, we have wonderful
27:42
easement rights. I can get on
27:44
it, my property and, if
27:46
I wanted to, I could walk five
27:48
miles up river and get out and not
27:51
have a problem. But I know
27:53
for instance, in Ohio,
27:55
if you. So
27:57
you're in public access land. If you come across
27:59
a fence, someone can fence the river off.
28:02
So how does your app account for
28:04
those nuances in those states where
28:06
you are currently mapping.
28:10
Yeah. So the key is to really know which
28:12
parcels of land are public
28:15
versus private. And then beyond that, it's
28:17
an understanding of what the laws are.
28:19
So let's just take that example. What
28:22
our tool would do and what probably is, there's some other
28:24
options out there in Ohio would tell
28:26
you which land parcels are public and where
28:28
the trout stream is. So you know where to ask
28:30
where to enter and then knowing
28:33
the Ohio laws, don't allow you to go beyond
28:35
fences that prevent navigable water
28:37
access. Then you would know not to cross
28:39
that debt. Sense. Whereas
28:41
in Wisconsin, as long as your feet are
28:43
wet you can, cut as long as your feet
28:45
are wet and the water is navigable from
28:47
a, like a watercraft at a kayak, you can continue
28:50
going, even if that's in private land. So
28:52
I think the combination of knowing where
28:55
the public land parcels are, which is what we do.
28:57
Along with the local laws of the state,
28:59
which we will be adding in the next month, then
29:02
that's pretty much all you need to know. Beyond
29:04
that though, I think there's still some further
29:06
nuance beyond what you legally have
29:08
access to. That is still an
29:10
important, like thing to understand, learn.
29:13
Let's say you're legally on a
29:15
trout water because your feet are wet in
29:17
Wisconsin. You still might have a landowner
29:19
that is really angry that you're there. And
29:21
so yeah, technically you could stay
29:23
there and we've had some of our users say they stayed
29:25
there and they've actually told me that Sheriff's
29:28
come on board or they investigate. And they
29:30
found out that because of our app, they learn
29:32
how to get under the water through an easement and
29:34
they were fine. But you're three hours
29:36
into a conflict and it's. Is that really
29:38
the goal of your day? If you're gonna have conflicts
29:40
with landowners. So we always try and say like,
29:43
when in doubt just try to respect landowners
29:45
that if there's a conflict, just avoid it
29:47
because there are some cases where you, we.
29:49
You probably have legal right away, but do you
29:51
really want a conflict? And I
29:53
think there's a lot of cases where. There's
29:56
that. And there's also a lot of these really
29:58
cool even programs that we have in Wisconsin
30:01
and Pennsylvania and a few others. We
30:03
depend on landowners being willing to play.
30:06
Yeah. And so if we have anglers out there
30:08
that are, kind of conflict, They're
30:10
like seeking conflict almost. It's just
30:12
not beneficial for our sport overall. W
30:14
we'll help you understand how to legally get
30:16
to a trout river. But I think,
30:19
if you're starting to have a conflict, we advise you
30:21
to just kinda get out of there. Yeah.
30:23
That makes good sense because I don't.
30:27
It's better to like, keep the landowners.
30:30
At least somewhat appeased then, stick
30:32
around and cause problems for them and
30:34
yourself. Yeah,
30:37
totally. How
30:39
do you as an app. With,
30:41
especially with the attention
30:43
that fly fishing has been receiving
30:46
and just how the industry
30:48
is starting to grow. How do you recommend
30:50
people responsibly participate? Dissipate
30:53
in the sport. Yeah,
30:57
that's a really good question. There's actually a lot
30:59
of I would say like anecdotal stories
31:02
that are very like, Disturbing
31:04
and disheartening about the influx
31:06
of new England's coming to the sport and either
31:08
intentionally or unintentionally. Creating
31:11
a very poor experience for either other anglers
31:13
or landowners. And
31:15
it's going to have a really unfortunate, long-term
31:18
effect. If we have participants in our sport,
31:20
creating poor experiences. And so
31:22
I think one thing is number
31:24
one, be educated, understand
31:27
what your. Where you're going in terms of is
31:29
it legal? Is it on public land?
31:31
Which is what our company's mission is currently.
31:36
Etiquette. And understanding
31:39
all kinds of things from, what
31:41
is it advisable to stop fishing for trout
31:43
when water temperatures go up? So that's one
31:45
concept. Another concept is if you're doing catch
31:47
and release first of all, only do catch
31:50
it early. So that's, what's legally required,
31:52
but also if you are, here's
31:54
how to do proper fishing annually. How do
31:56
you use social media and
31:58
fishing, which is a whole nother deal responsibly.
32:01
So some people might spend three minutes
32:03
trying to get a good shot of a fish. They caught. But
32:05
in the process they just told the other fish. So
32:07
I think there's a lot of like education. That
32:10
these newcomers will need to get better at.
32:13
And I think I actually would like to see our company do
32:15
a better job of that. So
32:17
as our company grows and becomes
32:19
this go-to for kinda
32:21
knowing where trout streams are and where public accesses.
32:24
And as we keep growing, I would like to see us take a more
32:27
lead position in trying
32:29
to onboard newcomers into our sport
32:31
in terms of education. So that
32:33
could be educating them on water temperature
32:35
could be educating them on proper fishing aniline.
32:38
Etiquette. How not to high whole people,
32:40
et cetera. Yeah. It's hard because
32:42
it's hard because you hear these stories and there's so much
32:45
you want to do, but the solutions are fairly
32:47
complex and fairly expensive to try and figure out
32:49
in terms of how to get us all
32:51
as an industry to respect the
32:53
experiences of others. Yeah. And
32:56
you brought up a really good point about social
32:58
media. And I,
33:00
even someone educated
33:02
me that on this about two years ago,
33:05
in terms like spot burning. So
33:08
one thing I really appreciate is on
33:10
the app. You don't have no
33:12
one can post. It's not a social media by
33:14
any means. Like no one can post
33:17
like bragging, photos of a fish. It's
33:19
just the data you need to get to the point
33:21
you're going to. Yeah.
33:25
I think you said it better than I could have. We get
33:27
a lot of, sorry. We get
33:29
some negative reactions
33:31
from people in the industry, because I think they
33:33
assume that we're like the fish brain of fly
33:35
fishing, but we never
33:37
have never will do anything related to
33:39
community, social media sharing
33:41
spots. So it really is
33:43
just a mapping platform to help you get on the water.
33:46
Like we're not, you can't share stuff with friends, you can't
33:48
create a profile. You can't. There's
33:50
a lot of stuff you can't do in our app
33:52
with respect to sharing and social media.
33:55
And that's just part of our DNA.
33:57
We'll never allow that. So I appreciate
33:59
you bringing that up. Yeah, I really do
34:01
appreciate that because I've looked at other
34:03
apps. I've tried them and, The
34:06
main thing is. Did you get
34:08
more involved in trope fishing and
34:10
fly fishing is you almost want to find
34:12
those hidden places and you're out
34:14
really. It makes it possible
34:17
to keep them somewhat. Unknown
34:19
from the rest of the community or
34:22
from people that are just out there looking to,
34:24
get what I like to call gripping grins.
34:28
Yeah. Yeah,
34:30
kudos to you guys on that front. And
34:33
really bringing a lot of really great information
34:35
together for people that are new to
34:37
the sport because, When you're first
34:39
starting this, it is intimidating
34:42
to. Decide,
34:44
where am I going to go? How am I going to do this?
34:46
And in having some more. That
34:48
brings, you, you brought
34:50
up class one streams,
34:52
you guys have all of that
34:55
information as well as. What's
34:58
advisable to do for that water.
35:00
So for Michigan, for instance, we have
35:02
a very limited trout season. I
35:04
do appreciate that. You guys mentioned,
35:06
this is water. You can only fish at this certain
35:08
time a year. Because for new
35:10
anglers, I have approached
35:13
people that are on a river
35:15
in the middle of the winter, and I'm like, Hey, this
35:17
is a class one. This is a class two.
35:20
I would hate to see you guys get in trouble.
35:22
And so many times. I didn't
35:24
know this. So sometimes I am
35:27
throwing you guys. People like, even
35:29
if it is Educational Hey just
35:31
so you're aware. But that is very
35:33
important because each state
35:35
is so nuanced. Yeah.
35:38
Two things to break, break down there.
35:41
Phishing. Special regulations for
35:43
streams. Is, it has a really important
35:45
piece and educating anglers
35:47
on what those special regulations are.
35:50
It's a big piece of compliance. So to
35:52
your point, if you have a newcomer
35:54
who is just like brand new to the sport is
35:56
really excited, but isn't fully educated. Having
35:59
a tool like Trello routes. Now we'll tell them
36:01
the special regulations of every stream, including
36:04
the likes of Michigan and. That was actually
36:06
a very complex thing. We just did a about
36:08
a month ago. So that's really helpful, but I
36:10
think I'm stepping back a minute.
36:12
I think there's a lot of really complex
36:14
issues. Related to
36:16
how to responsibly use like mobile
36:19
apps and technology when it comes to fly fishing.
36:21
And so we're, obviously right in the middle of
36:23
it. And I think one, one one of the most
36:25
valid debates that we have been part of
36:27
is. Whether or not something like trout
36:29
routes leads to over pressure. And
36:32
I think that's a very, you. Meaningful conversation.
36:36
One approach that we've taken is
36:38
to really ensure that
36:40
every stream in a state that we cover
36:42
that can, or does have cold
36:45
water species, like trout is mapped.
36:47
And what that means is rather than mapping out the top
36:50
five streams in Michigan and having them all go
36:52
to the streams that we all know about. Our
36:54
approach to really every single
36:56
trout stream and every single public land parcel.
36:59
And our thought there is to really help spread. People
37:01
out, we think that's really, it's really
37:03
what we're seeing is people. And
37:06
finding these new waters and not
37:08
overpopulating, the places that we all know. And
37:10
we really do think that a tool like
37:12
trout routes will actually help overcrowding.
37:15
Especially considering it does not do anything
37:18
to the hotspotting issue, which is
37:20
where you broadly share a specific point
37:23
that is apparently good for fishing on social media
37:25
which we don't do. There's a lot of complex issues, but I think
37:27
we're doing a decent
37:30
slash pretty good job of. The
37:32
best, most responsible way to do it.
37:35
And then the last thing I would say is as we're going
37:37
through and growing our business, we think it's really
37:39
important to always give back to conservation
37:42
groups. So I'm part of the board of trout
37:44
unlimited in the twin cities. And
37:46
we contribute to the national charter limited
37:48
On an annual basis. And we also do
37:50
a lot of volunteering. And sponsorship
37:53
of local chapter meetings and
37:55
there's a. Cause even fishing tournament for youth
37:57
in Pennsylvania that we're doing in a few weeks. So
38:00
congrats. It sounds like a lot of fun
38:02
through. That's also how we
38:04
connected them as you are at the Midwest fly
38:06
fishing expo. So you are.
38:09
Your chart rounds and trout insights
38:11
are all over the place. I would say. Oh,
38:14
that's awesome. Yeah, exactly. You
38:17
did bring up. A good point about
38:19
how you guys are mapping the entire stream.
38:21
Because one thing that I
38:24
feel is very important. Being,
38:26
I used to live in Kalamazoo, which is right
38:28
there on the Kalamazoo river. I
38:30
used to do a lot of fishing right. In urban
38:33
areas. And that's one thing that
38:35
I feel like what's your out, it's still
38:37
shows people like you don't need
38:39
to, you have nature in your backyard.
38:43
You don't have to go to these places that are
38:45
far away. Yeah,
38:48
I think that's so in Michigan alone, I think there was,
38:50
I don't know, two on TV. 500
38:53
or something, more trout stream.
38:55
We just added a Utah this week, which was,
38:58
400 streams, which is actually pretty
39:00
light for most of our states. So I
39:02
think the main takeaway is that we really do try and make sure
39:04
that you, as an angler are aware of all
39:06
the trout streams around you. So you don't need to go
39:08
to the most crowded and popular places.
39:11
And so it is really about education on where
39:13
Trout's rooms are and how to publicly access them. Definitely.
39:17
And then if you had to pick,
39:19
so you don't have to name.
39:22
The exact stream, but if you had a region
39:24
or a location, as well as a
39:27
certain species, what would be
39:29
that place in fish?
39:33
Oh man. That's a tough one. The
39:35
Driftless is pretty near and dear to
39:37
me. And I think I'm okay saying
39:40
that. Cause it's pretty well known at this point, that area.
39:42
There's a few places out west.
39:45
That I would consider. Pretty
39:47
darn near and dear to me that I found.
39:50
So I would say, we'll just call it central
39:52
Rocky area. You can just say Colorado.
39:55
Where the. Quite a ways from Denver. I feel like
39:57
around Denver, he gets a little bit too crowded,
39:59
a little bit too crazy. The flag patient seen there
40:01
is a little bit intense. But I think the home waters
40:03
of the Driftless is pretty incredible, pretty under
40:05
appreciated. Yeah. As far as species,
40:08
I feel like I'm still scratching the surface with some
40:10
stuff. I think I just started and starting to get into cuts.
40:12
Cutthroats that's a really fun experience
40:14
because it typically takes you way up into the mountains
40:17
and in terms of. Exploration
40:19
and adventure, and those are those will definitely get you out
40:21
there. But yeah, I would say either Browns Brooks.
40:23
It's all pretty much good to me. Awesome.
40:27
So in terms of,
40:29
we're going to shift gears a little bit.
40:32
So you so you here
40:34
are more of a jazz hip
40:36
hop. Fan,
40:38
do you have at least a few songs
40:41
for us or a certain band or two
40:43
that we can add to the playlist when
40:45
we get that off? Jeez.
40:48
If we have to, I guess I
40:50
would say like Pete rock and seal
40:52
smooth are. It's a combo. I listen
40:54
to pretty often like the instrumentals. Nice.
40:58
I've been listening to
41:00
a lot of It's
41:02
like just whatever. Spotify
41:05
throws me, but lately it's been
41:07
a lot of like smooth guitar or like
41:10
smooth guitar, hip hop. So
41:12
I feel you there. Cool.
41:15
Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff out there. Yeah, a lot
41:18
of stuff is typically for me, like I like instrumentals
41:20
kinda like the jazzy hip hop type
41:23
combination has been my go-to really
41:25
for 10 years. It's going to good for, if you're in the zone,
41:27
if you're doing work or studying or reading.
41:29
Is that like what you listened to when
41:31
you pull up to, when you're like pulling up to
41:33
your parking spot to go fish, is that
41:35
what you're jamming to? Or do you have a Anthem
41:38
that you're like, I gotta blast this before I hit
41:40
the water. No,
41:43
I try and either have nothing
41:45
at all, or, just like really
41:47
casual, like relaxing. That
41:49
kind of the jazz hip hop stuff. But I
41:51
have a strict rule of no music when you're coming up.
41:53
Just because it's there's so many things in my
41:55
world these days that keep me busy in my head.
41:57
So when I'm out fishing and I do everything
42:00
I can to force myself to slow down. So
42:02
even like music in the background, even if it's chill,
42:04
reggae stuff, I still say no that's
42:06
your time to be quiet. To be listening
42:09
to be present, to be watching and just try to
42:11
be as relaxed as you can. So I try to
42:13
actually keep it quiet. I like that. So
42:15
you use even like your drive out to the water
42:17
is like your moment for clarity to
42:20
rinse the pallet or rinse the chalkboard.
42:23
A hundred percent. Nice.
42:25
Nice. There's days like
42:27
that for free, even, I
42:30
would say I'm a little less busy nowadays, but
42:32
sometimes you just, you want the
42:35
quiet ride over there, you don't need to be
42:37
blessed in anything. Yeah.
42:40
There's some days where you're, it's a big trip out west
42:42
and you've been waiting for it for three months and you're with some
42:44
friends, but generally speaking,
42:46
most of my trips are day trips
42:48
and they're a pretty
42:50
Few and far between these days. So I try and keep it
42:52
relaxing. Nice. Yeah.
42:55
Like we were talking, you just said
42:57
like on our last call, you were like, I'm so
42:59
busy. I've got all this stuff going on. I was like, how
43:02
does he even find time to fish? So
43:04
how do you find time to fish? That's
43:06
the saddest thing is I my background is
43:08
I came from engineering in a kind of
43:10
a corporate medical device world, and
43:12
I fished more. Then
43:14
than I do now that I run trout runs.
43:17
Full-time. A fly fishing company.
43:19
Full-time I fish last because it's just, as
43:21
a small business, a small growing business, you just,
43:23
there's so many things to do. And there's so many opportunities
43:26
to go after. And. It's, when
43:28
you talk to fly shop owners and even sometimes
43:30
guys, they say the same thing. As you pick your passion
43:32
for your work and all the sudden you don't have the passion anymore. I
43:34
mean you do, but you don't get time to get out. Hopefully that'll
43:37
change in the next year or two. Yeah,
43:39
amen to that. And starting, with
43:41
all the retreats and stuff, I can
43:43
completely empathize with
43:45
you because there's days where
43:47
it's I've got to set this up, I've got to do this and
43:49
that. And then before I know it, I'm like, I've talked
43:51
about fishing all day, but when did I get on the
43:54
water? Yeah. It's
43:56
such a, it's such a blessing to be able to have that as
43:58
your, as a, your day job to be able to do something
44:00
that's related to your passion, but it is
44:02
true that you gotta be careful with Time to actually
44:04
do like the fishing to getting out. Yeah.
44:07
Yeah. So when you do
44:09
get out, I know you said that trout
44:11
routes is like your number one item
44:14
you can't live without. Do you have anything that you
44:16
keep in your bag or something
44:18
that. You're just like, man,
44:20
this item. Yeah,
44:23
let's say I was to go out today,
44:26
which is a mid may
44:28
in the Driftless. I really
44:30
enjoy. I have a small seven
44:32
and a half foot three weight, which
44:34
is just a crazy fun ride. And
44:37
it's really fun to bring to that and like
44:40
a pocket full of Adams and like pretty
44:42
much that's it. Like really simple,
44:44
don't over complicate it and just go out
44:46
there and find something that. Even
44:48
if you're just casting for fun, but typically those atoms
44:51
will parachute out. It was pretty much matched, most
44:53
things that are going on out there so that the candidates
44:55
you can Twitch it. If it's if it's a mayfly, you can drift
44:57
it and. There's something to be said for
45:00
keeping things simple. So sometimes
45:02
I'll have waiters and like all kinds of different
45:04
weights and all kinds of different Tippett and
45:06
four different fly boxes. And
45:09
you get so overwhelmed with your options and your tools
45:11
that you don't, you. So you lose that present presence of
45:13
mind. My go-to and my only
45:16
thing would probably be that seven and a half foot, three
45:18
weight, and a couple of parachute Adams.
45:21
My, my two weights, my favorite
45:23
rad. I
45:25
have a nine foot, two weight and
45:27
people look at me like I'm insane. I'm
45:29
like, look at my little. It
45:31
looks like a little Willow branch. I'm like,
45:33
I love this thing. They're like, When
45:36
you touch on that You kept to branch. What
45:38
do you use that thing for? Cause like I
45:40
know so many people love bigger
45:43
rods, but there's something so fun
45:45
about that really lightweight equipment.
45:47
Cause it. It's just a straight shot
45:50
between you and the fish. Yeah.
45:52
And I think that the shorter rods are interesting
45:54
because like in the. Breathless, like some
45:57
of the streams get really small and a
45:59
lot of the traffic goes to the streams that have no.
46:01
The brush recover. And so sometimes
46:03
you'll just find these tiny little streams
46:05
that no one is fishing, but you
46:08
sneak up in the woods and you see these
46:10
rises and you have this little tiny seven. Foot
46:12
three weight. And he Slingshot a little
46:14
parachute in there and it's it's that is quite the experience.
46:17
Yeah. So it's very satisfying.
46:20
It's you can just crawl around and sneak
46:22
up on them. And that, that
46:24
I can completely agree with you. Zach is
46:26
some of the funnest stuff you can do. Yeah,
46:29
it'll keep you hooked for several years for
46:31
sure. That
46:34
is all the questions and
46:36
what we are going to cover for today
46:39
Is there any way that our
46:41
audience can reach out to
46:43
you or find you to learn
46:45
more about The app because We
46:48
covered so many wonderful things about
46:50
the application i want to make sure that people
46:52
know where to find you and know how to find the app
46:54
and get started with it since i
46:57
found it extremely valuable so
46:59
i know others could as well
47:03
Yeah one thing I think That's cool about us is we're
47:05
a really small local midwest company you can
47:07
always email me literally directly at
47:09
Z pope At trout insights.com
47:12
and we also have kind of a main social
47:15
instagram page called trout routes So
47:18
pretty easy to get ahold of us I Pretty much work all day
47:20
all night most people that email me get a response
47:22
in five minutes so i'm always
47:24
love hearing from anglers in the field Definitely
47:27
i knew you were even saying you're like
47:29
customer service like you
47:31
had customer service stories for us
47:34
Yeah i'm currently doing this podcast in
47:36
a dark garage so when i
47:38
say small company it's just me And
47:42
She's on video he's hanging out in his garage
47:44
so it is a small
47:46
company that i know that you
47:48
have been pounding the pavement
47:50
from all of your stories too, to really
47:52
get this out there so we hardcore
47:55
trout anglers that like to go crawl around in the woods
47:58
thank you Of
48:00
course yeah i look forward to hearing
48:02
from other anglers and thanks so much Once
48:05
again, thank you to Zach Pope.
48:08
From trout insights,
48:10
the creator. Of
48:12
trout routes. If you haven't
48:15
had a chance. To
48:17
check out the app, please go do so.
48:20
It is a fantastic resource
48:22
and tool to have in your back pocket.
48:24
Is you're out there exploring the summer.
48:27
I hope you have a great time
48:29
on the water. And
48:31
as always stay fly,
48:33
curious. Loop to loop
48:35
is a mindful trout production
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