0:10

Welcome to Loremen, a podcast about local

0:12

legends and obscure curiosities from days of

0:14

yore. I'm Alistair Beckett King.

0:16

And I'm James Shakeshaft. And this week,

0:19

James, I'm bringing you an English eccentric

0:21

from Hertfordshire. Ooh, the

0:23

heart of Forgeshire. Yeah, my story.

0:25

It's got twin poachers. It's got

0:28

a spectral monk. And

0:30

it has got Sunday sermons

0:32

so saucy you could dip your

0:34

chips in them. It's

0:37

the wild man of Letchworth Hall.

0:59

James, would you like to come with me

1:01

to Hertfordshire? I would, but can I air

1:03

my complaint first? Oh, yes. We

1:06

always like controversy on the podcast.

1:08

This is a county based complaint.

1:10

We have Hertfordshire, we have Herefordshire.

1:12

There is one letter difference between

1:14

those two counties. I don't think

1:17

that's sustainable. That's your

1:19

complaint. If I go to the Hertfordshire

1:21

Wikipedia page and scroll down to controversies,

1:24

I'll see name too similar to Herefordshire.

1:26

Yeah, and it will get instantly taken

1:28

away again by the editors. Well, James,

1:31

if that shocks you, then the story

1:33

I have to tell you is going

1:35

to blow your mind. Is it? Yeah.

1:38

In front of me, I have a book called Hitchin' Worthies

1:40

from 1932. It's

1:42

a nice green hardback book

1:44

written by the solicitor and

1:47

local historian Reginald Heine. Heine.

1:50

It's a book about all

1:52

of the worthies, the dignified

1:54

fellows, the stout gentlemen, the

1:56

stolid bricks that made up

1:58

people in Hitchin' and the in the

2:00

surrounding areas. And then, James, I'm not interested

2:03

in any of that. But then, at the

2:05

end, there's a section about the oddballs. We're

2:08

going straight to the oddball section now.

2:10

Very much the controversies of an old

2:12

book. It's the controversy. I've scrolled down,

2:15

basically, to the controversies of the book.

2:17

There's a few wrong ones here. There's

2:19

a few tasty so-and-so's, a few ragel-tagel

2:21

ruffians. Now, I'm not even going to

2:23

mention all of them. I'm not even

2:25

going to mention the unheavenly fox twins.

2:28

True to their name were notorious poachers.

2:31

Yeah, their names were Albert

2:33

Ebenezer Fox and Ebenezer Albert

2:35

Fox. Yeah, that would just

2:37

avoid confusion. Really? I don't

2:39

think that avoids confusion. That's

2:41

a Hertford-Chaheraphyshire situation right there.

2:44

They were very much the Hertford-Chaheraphyshire

2:46

of people. I'm going to show you

2:48

a picture of the identical

2:50

twin criminals, or twiminals, if you

2:53

will. Nice. Ebenezer.

2:55

And they look almost exactly

2:57

like Tomsen and Tomsen from

3:00

Tintin. Who, similarly, were one letter different.

3:02

They were one letter. Yeah, they were,

3:04

weren't they? Because they were, at

3:06

least as I remember it, they were no relation.

3:08

No. Well, I think in some translations, they're brothers.

3:10

Oh, really? But one's got a P and one's

3:12

not got a P. They can't be brothers then,

3:14

can they? That was their whole thing. Just a

3:16

coincidence. Well, James, let me ask you this question.

3:19

Do you think they used their status as

3:21

twins to evade capture by the authorities? Yes.

3:24

The answer is not successfully. Oh, well, I

3:26

suppose halfway. But they made a good go

3:28

of it. I think essentially what happened was

3:30

the wrong one kept going to prison, which

3:33

between, like in an aggregate, they didn't really

3:35

get away with anything. But individually, they got

3:37

away with some crime. I suppose that's the

3:39

thing. Like, if it's just one of them

3:41

is a criminal, they're actually now twice as

3:44

likely to get caught in a way. Yeah,

3:47

you're much easier to find, especially since they

3:49

live together, as far as I can tell,

3:51

in the woods. Oh. Ebenezer Albert and Albert

3:53

Ebenezer Fox died with 82 and 113 convictions to

3:55

their names, According

3:58

to Reginald Heinz Hitch. In

4:00

where these apparently according to Time Magazine

4:02

there was some of the first people

4:04

convicted based on single print evidence because

4:06

even identical twins have different singing. Prince.

4:09

They were convicts don't think he front

4:11

evidence so the hospital for I'm not

4:13

I'm not even in Italia of ah

4:15

that stone don't online any of our

4:17

information stop looking at them Opera This

4:19

looks like promotional pictures for the top

4:21

one that stage act the second one

4:23

else had failed Moon The caption for

4:25

the second one is Albert Ebenezer and

4:27

Avenues Albert Fox in the Heat in

4:29

Prison Yard and they do not apply

4:31

the having a while of a time

4:33

not at all but they got both

4:35

of up on that case they evidently

4:37

by to the crew. I mean, if we may

4:39

be looking at one guy in America, we don't know. But

4:43

that's not gonna talk about. I

4:45

think I see this episode james's

4:47

as the counterpart to the episode

4:49

where you tell the story of

4:52

Cornwall's Loneliest thicker. Oh yes, get

4:54

ready. Saw Hartford says sleaziest The

4:56

cat food Simpsons English accents is

4:58

cause him mad Allinson of let's

5:00

with Whole Car shows oddballs and

5:03

eccentric schools Him mad Jack that

5:05

my source is as you know,

5:07

Reginald Heinz hits. In Worthies and

5:09

he gives the man's real name

5:11

the Reverend John Ellington. Seventeen Ninety

5:14

Five to Eighteen Sixty Three This

5:16

guy James was riches had made

5:18

a rich I'll give you a

5:20

little background or how he he

5:22

became to be so wealthy. His

5:25

maternal grandfather a farmer named John

5:27

Williams and had a farm as

5:29

hell. And in Bolduc. Wow. Now

5:31

speaking of things, one lesser difference

5:33

on a sudden to hear lands.

5:35

Oh and in Bullets know I

5:38

bolduc know. Things in Oxfordshire still

5:40

not bad for the pretty good but

5:42

it it now Fun Williamson add a

5:44

very good harvest one. Yeah, basically he

5:46

had an inkling. An. Inkling that

5:48

the weather was about to turn to

5:50

the reins are about to come out.

5:52

So a travel the length and breadth

5:54

presumably of off the rounding up a

5:56

hundred hands to reap all of his

5:58

cone. Fifty people and. August.

6:01

Two hundred hands assessor two hundred hands

6:03

with a lowercase sites and then a

6:06

great storm destroyed all his neighbors' crops

6:08

and many of them were ruined. and

6:10

basically just just in that year he

6:12

became one of the richest men in

6:14

the region. As I as far as

6:16

I can tell he basically bought the

6:18

neighboring farms for a song because his

6:20

his neighboring his neighbors were ruined off

6:22

the proceeds of his intuition. he bought

6:24

a grand The State in Letchworth which

6:26

is now let's with Garden City this

6:28

a whole area. there's a city. There

6:30

now in those days are wasn't much. There

6:32

was a small place between both that and

6:35

Hitchin posts. He didn't change him. Wealth did

6:37

not change him. He still continued to go

6:39

about looking like a scruff. In the words

6:41

of Francis Lucas, he was a little man

6:44

of mean appearance and never dressed well and

6:46

is breaches were much past and and the

6:48

same way that James, You and I went

6:50

out in a moderately successful podcast as by

6:53

Don't Think Care. Something. Census Now

6:55

we still patch of reaches One last

6:57

I'm sorry I'm still a little man

6:59

of mean appearances whom when he died

7:02

in there the eighteen thirty fun. Williamson

7:04

had a forty three farms and a

7:06

million pounds which is a which I

7:09

think it as interstate is a lot

7:11

of for hims and a lot pounds.

7:13

Yeah on a pounds. His fortune ended

7:16

up belonging to. The. Reverend John

7:18

Ellington Wrong hands. I'm sure of mention

7:20

this podcast before. you know how much

7:22

I like Lotto Louts. Rice? Yes yes

7:24

we all have a lotta laughs that

7:26

just flipping the bird to the camera

7:29

person. Any points riding on the quad

7:31

bike flipping the birds do in a

7:33

demolition derby in the garden? Yeah, demolition

7:35

deaths because I think out a if

7:37

you if you don't remember me complaining

7:39

about how much people used to hide

7:41

loss our lads in previous episodes or

7:44

if you don't remember the the concept

7:46

of law sell outs basically. When we

7:48

the national Lottery was introduced, working class people

7:50

started winning it and the papers was very

7:52

unhappy that they were spending their winnings in

7:54

a fun way. They

7:56

want to find possibly post else if it is

7:58

having a nice time. And there's a

8:00

little a little bit of the lotto loud.

8:03

He was basically a loss allows who was

8:05

also an ordained reverend and some I'm who

8:07

had a degree from Oxford, but he started

8:09

out Sally Small. In. His eccentricities

8:11

him, but he moved into Less

8:13

withhold the grand Hall that belonged

8:15

to his grandfather and speed began

8:17

a lifelong vendetta against the resident

8:19

Samuels hardtop map pool. Now that's

8:22

all those peas are popping. There

8:24

are those plosive coming through that

8:26

has this guy has to peace

8:28

and hardtop on two peas in

8:30

nappies. A for p man well

8:32

to up nap Wow says. And

8:35

who's the Rector of Let's With

8:37

Church who made it? I think

8:39

one big mistake. What what? Avoid

8:41

the subway read this is vicarage vicar

8:43

violence Oh yeah yeah yep absolutely no

8:46

intrinsic a conflict our know in so

8:48

the cat conflict or an ecclesiastical a

8:50

feud yes to do a blood feud

8:52

is probably a real thing I think

8:55

a look for you to nice it

8:57

passes on three a family which I

8:59

know didn't happen in this case which

9:01

also I think is literally what of

9:04

and s or is so maybe maybe

9:06

however I'm of because vendetta I think

9:08

as much as a very good news.

9:10

So he was Samuel. Hardtop maps mistake.

9:13

When Arlington arrived he said hi basically

9:15

welcome and on the rector posts you

9:17

know if you fancy com and taking

9:20

some the services feel free because your

9:22

average as well must enjoy it freeze

9:24

frame I suppose you wondered how I

9:26

got into a ridiculous situation is because

9:29

what you did was you invited John

9:31

Allen tons come and take some of

9:33

the services in your church. Samuel Heart

9:36

of nap you fool. You.

9:38

foolish man was guys first mistake

9:40

that was his first and only

9:42

mistake arlington folks are also quite

9:44

seriously and began to do all

9:47

of the sunday services in the

9:49

church as well as all of

9:51

the weddings and christenings leaving just

9:53

the funerals which nobody likes or

9:55

to samuel hardtop nap and his

9:58

sermons were quite on convey He

10:00

basically, he began doing erotic sermons,

10:03

expounding a doctrine of free love.

10:05

Direct quote from Reginald Hein there,

10:08

inspired by, you know, the Song

10:10

of Songs from the Bible. Yeah,

10:13

is it pure Song of Songs?

10:15

Song of Solomon? It's famously the

10:17

sexiest bit of the Bible. It is. It's

10:20

like lawman-08 material. By

10:23

the Bible's standards, it's very

10:25

sexy. Here,

10:28

can I just read out just one bit

10:30

of the sauciness? Oh, please do, yes. I

10:32

can't believe you've got his hand. Cover

10:35

your children and pets, ears. Cover

10:38

your children with animals. Proceed, James. Let

10:40

me kiss him with the kisses of

10:42

his mouth. Ooh,

10:44

a saucy! Ooh,

10:47

la-la. So you can imagine that Reginald

10:50

Samuel Hartovnap phallying himself as he comes

10:52

to his own church and hears this

10:54

sort of filth from the pulpit. I've

10:56

just read another bit. I've just read

10:58

another three-word one bit. Let's hear it,

11:00

let's hear it. While the king was

11:03

on his couch, my nard gave forth

11:05

its fragrance. Our

11:09

couch is green. The beams of our

11:11

house are cedar, our rafters are pine.

11:13

Maybe that might just all be euphemistic.

11:16

Mm-mm. So Nap had no choice. He

11:18

went over Allington's head to the bishop

11:21

and he had Allington suspended.

11:23

Oh. End of story. The big

11:25

end to blue, doing blue services. You know what

11:27

these rural gigs are like? They don't like the

11:29

blue material. I can see why he didn't do

11:31

the funerals though. It's probably for the best. It's

11:35

very hard to make him sexy. That's

11:37

the problem. You'd think that would be

11:39

the end of the story. It's not.

11:41

Allington basically said, right, fine, I'll go.

11:43

I'll set up my own church. You

11:45

know, Bender in Futurama? Yes. His famous

11:47

line, well, he didn't have

11:49

blackjack. The sermons he set

11:51

up were basically like illegal

11:53

raves with music and

11:56

dancing. Hyne described it as

11:58

a satinalia. He would take to the...

12:00

the pulpit, dressed in a full leopard

12:02

skin. And I've got a picture of

12:04

it for you there, James, which you

12:06

might like to describe for the listener.

12:08

From a sketch by local artist Samuel

12:10

Lucas, you can see John Allington there,

12:12

draped in the skin of a leopard.

12:15

I'm still googling sexiest bit of the

12:17

Bible. Get

12:19

back over to the picture I sent you. Whoa,

12:22

what's... Okay. I mean, that's a

12:24

man in a rug. It's a

12:26

man in a leopard rug. A full leopard. It

12:28

had a tail. It definitely had a tail.

12:30

And there's something at the

12:32

front, which is not the tail,

12:34

but there's like a sort of a bundle of

12:36

hairs. It has a sort of sporing effect. Mmm.

12:39

What is that? He would

12:41

give his sermons from a pulpit, dressed like

12:44

that in full leopard skin. He would play

12:46

on the tiddly bump. Mm, m'oh, hello. It

12:48

was his name for a ramshackle piano. There

12:50

were music boxes. And he rode around before

12:52

the sermon on his hobby horse, which is

12:54

not a horse. But if you go to

12:57

the next picture I sent you, it was

12:59

a four wheeled moving contraption.

13:02

Oh, that's four wheels. I thought it

13:04

was just one of them recline bikes. It

13:06

looks a bit like a bicycle, but

13:08

it's like a four wheeled bicycle, if

13:10

you can imagine. He's just in Mario Kart

13:12

and then dressing as some sort of

13:14

bouser, leopard bouser. You might imagine from this

13:17

picture that this was an outdoor vehicle.

13:19

From what we're describing, the listener might imagine

13:21

him riding around outdoors. No, this was

13:23

an indoor vehicle. He would ride that

13:25

around inside the room before the sermon began.

13:27

I'm going to read from Reginald Hines

13:29

book. Precariously seated on this, propelled by

13:31

his own feet or pushed behind by

13:34

his men, he would ride up and

13:36

down the cleared middle of the hall,

13:38

whooping, whipping and spurting and cheering wildly

13:40

as he rebounded from the brick wall

13:42

at one end and the wooden screen

13:44

at the other. If he fell off,

13:46

which happened every other turn, he would

13:48

roar with laughter and bow to the

13:50

congregation before he would have mounted the

13:52

machine. Finally, he would prundle it up

13:54

and down the two ranks of the

13:56

people holding out a pound jar of

13:58

snuff so that all who cared

14:00

might help themselves to a pinch. If Allington

14:02

disliked the look of a person, however, he

14:04

would snatch the jar away. Oh,

14:06

no snuff for you. I imagine

14:09

him saying. And this is before

14:11

church. This is before his version

14:13

of church, which was very, very

14:16

unconventional. He would give powerful sermons that'd

14:18

be music. He would disappear from the

14:20

pulpit only to reappear from a trap

14:22

door somewhere else. Nice stagecraft.

14:25

I like it. Yeah, he's got

14:27

everything. And the climax of the

14:29

performance was this. His crimson face

14:31

would stream with perspiration and as a

14:33

final triumphant gesture, at a clinching point

14:35

in his crowning argument, he would catch

14:38

hold of his sandy wig, wave it

14:40

wildly in the air, and hurl it

14:42

into the hall. Oh, this

14:45

sounds like a... He sounds like a

14:47

rock star. Yeah, it's really...

14:49

It was incredibly popular with the young folk.

14:51

He would gather all sorts of people together.

14:53

He gathered together, had Romany musicians to play

14:56

with him. None of that book stuff for

14:58

me. Give me the real wild music. He

15:00

was reported as saying by Wisdom Boswell, who

15:03

went on to add, Pardon. A very nice

15:05

gentleman, were the squire, and I wished there

15:07

were more of his sort about. Sorry, what

15:09

was that person's name again? Wisdom

15:12

Boswell. Just dropped a little Wisdom Boswell in there.

15:14

I'm so confident about names. Don't even have to

15:16

stress them. Just

15:18

a throwaway name there, Wisdom Boswell. Where

15:21

you sent me the picture, the sketch

15:23

of him, still in his slippers riding

15:26

the hobby horse. I could just see some of

15:28

the other text, and I can see there's

15:30

someone called his groom, Jimmy Tuff.

15:33

Jimmy Tuffnell. But

15:36

presumably Tuff Jimmy for short. Yeah. It

15:38

was definitely a James King and an Arthur King.

15:41

I can see what their parents were doing name

15:43

wise. They were going for King James King Arthur.

15:45

Very good. Nice. Basically,

15:48

his servants were his, I

15:50

don't know, wingmen, sidekicks. He

15:52

worked very closely with them in his

15:55

many, many odd schemes. I know I've

15:57

been implying that it got pretty hot

15:59

and heavy. It really did. He

16:01

was extremely liberal, he was welcome. He was

16:04

at home to all in the world and

16:06

it seems apparently people were welcome to ride

16:08

their horses right in through the front door

16:10

when arriving. Well, okay. As you

16:12

might imagine. This is getting a bit out

16:15

of hand. How high is the door? You'll

16:17

be surprised to hear local people were somewhat

16:19

judgmental. One gentleman farmer said of his Sunday

16:22

sermons that all the halls of Hertfordshire were

16:24

there. But James, you know who

16:26

else spent his time with sex workers? Angus

16:29

Deaton, yeah. Also,

16:31

Jesus. Oh, right, okay.

16:33

And this guy, and Jesus as well. So, you

16:35

know, who's to say what the Christian thing to

16:38

do is? Certainly, when

16:41

things went a little bit far, he did

16:43

step in. If he saw young folk getting

16:45

a little out of hand in the room,

16:47

he said, if you

16:49

young cults want to roll about, there's

16:51

plenty of grass outside. What's

16:53

the people that get in? He had

16:55

them kicked out. They're necking at church.

16:58

One of the people that Heinz interviewed

17:00

tried to attend one as a boy, but it

17:02

had been so throng with people he couldn't even

17:04

get into the room. He did throw, quote,

17:07

gentlemen's parties, which are printed with

17:09

inverted commas around them. And I

17:11

think the reason for the scare

17:13

quotes is that the people who

17:15

attended them weren't really gentlemen, rather

17:17

than that they weren't really gentlemen's

17:19

parties. What do you see? Gentlemen's

17:21

parties. He would invite people upstairs

17:23

to view his collection of what

17:25

Rodney Shaw called non-go-racklies, which I

17:27

apologize for the pronunciation of the

17:29

Romany words there. Naked Girls

17:31

is his collection of nude

17:34

portraits, which he kept upstairs

17:37

for the lads. For the lads? For the

17:39

lads and dads, yeah. And would there be

17:41

like a Bible verse next to it or

17:43

something? He was very big on the preaching.

17:45

He did read from the Bible. Yeah,

17:47

probably just a little bit of scolding

17:49

on the way up. Just sneaking in,

17:52

like tricking them into reading the Bible

17:54

by just putting it like in the

17:56

book. Yeah, Into

17:58

weaving it. Every other page. you know been

18:00

a a great orator he was a very

18:02

bad pharma a would have his men collecting

18:04

flint and building great big towers of flint.

18:07

Son to no real reason and a middling

18:09

for know prefer. A

18:11

success. He had his men build great big

18:13

towers of since by collecting up services flinch

18:15

from the seals just to give them something

18:18

to do. Really? because I relied upon him

18:20

and he didn't really have any work for

18:22

them so we just had been doing so.

18:24

General stuff's The estate was huge and supposedly

18:27

that the laborers would stop planting corn as

18:29

soon as. They were out of sight of

18:31

the house because he didn't really go in

18:33

that direction so they don't know I look

18:35

like a farm from his point of view.

18:37

Our know to thing underneath the flint. it

18:39

was just like a box and they just

18:41

put Flynn glued flint to the outside of

18:43

a couple books. I always go as high.

18:45

My killer like a large a pile of

18:47

flint. some was flint making less and less

18:49

corn. That's not our farmers as not the

18:51

farming word on our farmers amps. Growing.

18:54

Is other words scare guess sorry I didn't make

18:56

as much cone and as you could have on

18:58

of this the on this fast to state

19:00

that suited him because if you grow corn you

19:02

have to pay ties to the local church. Who

19:05

is that as of course the reverend Samuel Hardtop

19:07

nap and he didn't want to pay ties

19:09

to his enemy forces guys or thirty to be

19:11

run in the church? I don't get Ellington had

19:13

no authority to run the church he he he

19:16

was invited to for out of politeness by the

19:18

local vicar to do a sermon now and

19:20

then as he could he know he lives in

19:22

the big house. And then he just muscled

19:24

his way in and then created his own rival

19:27

church after he was kicked out on my way

19:29

and then went out of his way to avoid

19:31

giving the church any money. he switched from

19:33

farming cheap to farming bullock's Could he do more

19:35

pie times on whoop? And but you did, he

19:38

didn't It wasn't all. Get.

19:40

Into fights with local because he spent a lot

19:42

of his time trying to educate the man who

19:44

worked for him. Only. think largely unsuccessful

19:46

ways he had a pond at which easy

19:49

shaped like a map of the world as

19:51

far as i can tell because it most

19:53

of his men and never left off the

19:55

chair and so he shaped like cause of

19:58

the geography of different parts of the world

20:00

and then he would punt about in

20:02

his boat, quizzing his servants on the

20:04

geography of different areas. Did

20:06

he throw like pictures of naked women in

20:08

there to try to attract their attention to

20:11

the map of the world? He doesn't seem

20:13

to have had a hugely high opinion of his servants

20:15

in some way. He tried to educate them, but he

20:18

doesn't seem to have rated them very highly. His

20:20

servants were interested in going to the

20:22

great exhibition in London, but they

20:24

were nervous. Let me

20:27

find the quote. In the Crystal Palace?

20:29

In the Crystal Palace, which was at that time in

20:32

Hyde Park, not in Crystal Palace.

20:35

In 1851, he thought it would be instructive

20:37

for his men to attend the great exhibition,

20:40

and as most of them were strangers to

20:42

London and were fearful about being lost in

20:44

that den of wickedness. He

20:48

knew a lot about that. He directed

20:50

them to lay out balks of timber

20:52

in the park and arranged these himself

20:54

so as to represent the principal streets

20:56

between King's Cross and Hyde Park. Basically,

20:59

he built a large, as far as I can

21:01

tell, almost life-size map. I don't know

21:03

quite how big it was, but a

21:06

large, large map of King's Cross to

21:08

Hyde Park so he could train his

21:10

men. He tied little hay bands

21:12

around their right knees in order to distinguish

21:14

people who were going to Hyde Park

21:17

from people who were coming from Hyde Park, and

21:19

the whole thing was a complete write-off. In the

21:21

end, he decided they were all too stupid and

21:23

he would not let them. If

21:28

you don't know, it's quite near Hyde Park. It's not

21:30

that hard to walk from King's Cross to Hyde Park.

21:32

I thought I gave overly

21:35

elaborate directions. He

21:38

was a father with many children, so this is clearly

21:40

dad-like. I don't know what you want to do. You

21:42

don't want to get the tube. It's a rip-off. It's

21:44

a rip-off. They

21:47

get you on when you beep in and when you beep out. He

21:50

did kind of the same thing again. During

21:52

the Crimean War, he had his men dig

21:54

trenches to recreate the siege of Sevastopol on

21:57

his land. He would climb up into a

21:59

tree. and sort of watch them

22:01

recreating the ongoing battle. It is

22:03

bar me, frankly bar me, but it does

22:05

sound like it would have been quite fun.

22:07

It does sound pretty fun. I mean, most

22:09

of these things sound bar me, but quite

22:11

fun. Some of them are a little more

22:14

depressing. George Jeeves of Hitchin used to tell

22:16

how, going over to Letchworth on business one

22:18

day, he found Allington being carried round and

22:20

round the garden in an open coffin. You'll

22:22

see Jeeves, he remarks, lifting his head for

22:24

the second. I'm getting ready. Oh,

22:26

and getting them ready as well. Eddie

22:28

Blue tacked nutty pictures to the coffin, so...

22:32

To attract their attention to it. Unfortunately,

22:34

he didn't live forever. Sneaking into town

22:36

to scare people one night, something he

22:38

regularly did apparently, he slipped at any

22:41

one of us might on the tail

22:43

of his leopard skin that he was

22:45

wearing, and the frosty ground. If you'll

22:47

go around in slippers... He was quite

22:49

badly injured and that had him laid

22:51

up for a while. He

22:53

didn't die, but there is a very

22:56

odd thing in the book. Hein mentions that, you

22:58

know, it wasn't that bad being laid up in

23:00

the house for him. He was a man

23:02

of infinite resource. He could paint, he could

23:04

read, he could sew, he could play chess,

23:06

he could play the violin, he could play

23:09

handbells and musical boxes. He could arrange his

23:11

birds' eggs, his butterflies and moths. Above all,

23:13

he could drink. And there's a

23:15

drawing of him. And you know

23:17

the way sometimes the drawings are captioned with a

23:19

line from the text in books. Yes.

23:22

Yeah. So this is a drawing of him reading a book and

23:24

the caption just says, He could read. It's

23:30

far from unusual in people with a degree

23:32

from Oxford. If you were to slip the

23:34

dust cover off that book, it would be

23:36

hula-la in that. It's mostly pictures. Now

23:38

he reads the articles. His second

23:40

wife, after his first wife died, he married

23:42

a peasant girl, a tough knoll, I think.

23:45

And even though he was very keen on

23:47

educating his men, never taught her to read,

23:50

which I think is a bit suspicious. I

23:52

think maybe she wasn't attracted to the nutty

23:55

pictures of women that he would use to

23:57

trick men into learning. Oh, so maybe it

23:59

was her. Lucy. In my day

24:01

she like to big old Lady Ellington

24:03

a title which I think is she

24:05

didn't have any right to pursue like

24:07

typical Lady Ellington by the people in

24:10

the village. He did die in his

24:12

final sickness. He refused to take the

24:14

says it's prescribed by a doctor and

24:16

instead died after drinking a tumbler of

24:18

neat brandy which is sad, not very

24:20

supernatural. The whole james, whoa, what's happening

24:23

now? What a tonal shift? Yeah, let's

24:25

zoom out. So yes, this story, yeah,

24:27

no. get ready exist at all alone.

24:29

Dawkins? No, no. Yes, yes he

24:31

was he said from the very

24:33

saw the story to now. Oh,

24:35

does that The Reverend Ellingson was

24:37

an eccentric the author of this

24:39

book, Reginald Hein. He's an eccentric

24:41

as well. What's not only was

24:43

he an English eccentric, he was

24:45

a believer in ghosts. And I

24:47

think perhaps uniquely among sources on

24:49

our Podcast he is a dust

24:51

was. Maybe he might be a

24:53

ghost. I. Was very enthusiastic about go

24:56

see mentions in this book that less with whole

24:58

had three ghosts but sadly doesn't give any of.

25:00

Any. Of the details. But

25:03

he was obsessed by a nearby ruin

25:05

called Mins Didn't Chapel means which was

25:07

said to be haunted by us. How

25:09

old monk about minutes and chapel. It

25:12

doesn't have a roof size. it does.

25:14

Now he didn't He didn't in the

25:16

in the mid twentieth century when I

25:18

was writing it's it's tumble down walls

25:20

and it's overgrown. The decision as a

25:23

hooded figure is sometimes seen that in

25:25

fact I have a photograph of men's

25:27

didn't Chapel and the town's Monk which

25:29

I have thought of don't an arrow

25:31

on it. For you James is not

25:34

bus easy to say but what do

25:36

you say that oh oh oh yeah

25:38

as a see through bugs look in

25:40

my best in the middle of to

25:42

in like a big bit of you

25:44

know either freezing or going whoop other

25:47

he's a i'll say Rios etc move

25:49

Now yeah that photographs is obviously a

25:51

double exposure but it was printed in

25:53

one of Reginald Fine better to pitch

25:55

when the goes wasn't there in the.

25:59

Next. Windows Two pictures, clever.

26:02

Retinal. I found men's and shuttles

26:04

mean entirely and magical place and

26:06

in his or the book, concessions

26:08

of an uncommon attorney. Nineteen Forty

26:10

five. He. Says that the very

26:12

air admins deniers tremulous with that st

26:14

sorts of us call it the under

26:16

some of us the music of the

26:18

Sea is a like the Police so

26:20

much that he bought it or rather

26:22

least it from the church he goes

26:24

on to say is that any other

26:26

attorney I wonder who has a fourteenth

26:29

century church belonging to him that I

26:31

do claim to be uncommon through with

26:33

it is only for the term of

26:35

my natural life by least from the

26:37

because of Hitchen but as I intended.

26:39

My body oh my ass. Is so

26:41

be laid to rest in the chancel.

26:43

I have more than attendance quiet enjoyment

26:46

out of enlarged my title and usurped

26:48

a pretty held his pride of ownership

26:50

it was that would lead me in

26:53

my account of mins done in his

26:55

of the book history of Hitchin volume

26:57

two to bid test passes and sec

26:59

religious person stake warning for I will

27:02

proceed against them with the utmost reader

27:04

of the law and after my death

27:06

and burial I will endeavour in all

27:08

ghostly ways to protect and horns it's

27:11

walls. Now that photograph I showed you

27:13

was from a his nineteen Twenty nine

27:15

bucks a history of it's and volume

27:17

two. It was taken by his friends

27:19

T w lunch more or less more

27:21

admitted it was Abs. It's it's it's

27:23

not real and commentary around this on

27:25

the internet. A lot of people suspects

27:27

that Reginald Time is the man dressed

27:29

in the cloak Sega. Some people suspects

27:31

the resin aligned himself is the towels

27:34

Sega in the photograph but hein and

27:36

never admitted it. so he is the

27:38

ghost. Wow Spob see was just trying

27:40

to scare people. Away from a place

27:42

that he had a great deal about

27:44

and in his lifetime and perhaps even

27:46

asked his death he still trying to

27:48

scare people away. Reginald. Line

27:50

died of a Santas and nineteen,

27:52

forty nine, and later visitors to

27:55

minced and chapel's describes a place

27:57

quite differently to. the ghost

27:59

hunter david Farrant interviewed Peter Roseworn

28:01

from Bolbook, who took his fox

28:03

terrier to Minnston in 1959, and

28:06

Roseworn told Farrant, It

28:09

was a warm summer's evening around 4pm and

28:11

a bright cloudless day. We left the motorcar

28:13

at the bottom of the footpath and entered

28:15

the chapel and looked around. The

28:18

dog wandered off while we were looking

28:20

at the Hein memorial stone, and we

28:22

noticed this was cracked in half, and

28:24

it still is to this day James.

28:26

They've not repaired it. Eventually

28:29

the dog returned and seemed afraid.

28:31

All at once the atmosphere seemed to go

28:33

cold and the dog whined and lay down,

28:35

cringing on the ground. We then noticed that

28:38

although the sun was out and the

28:40

day cloudless, it had gone dark in the

28:42

chapel. It was a strange experience as neither

28:44

of us had any experience of anything

28:46

at cult and no interest in things psychic.

28:48

And Mary Prowse told the same ghost

28:50

hunter David Farrant a very similar story that

28:53

took place in 1975. She

28:56

has the exact same voice as Peter Roseworn.

28:58

It was a hot summer's day, but Mary

29:00

Prowse distinctly recalled the cold, gloomy

29:02

atmosphere inside the ruins. Despite

29:04

the fact the chapel had no roof and

29:07

there was nothing to obstruct the sunlight, shortly

29:09

afterwards Mrs. Prowse took some family snapshots just

29:11

outside the ruins. And when later

29:13

developed, two of these showed what appeared to

29:15

be the vague shape of a

29:17

cowed figure standing in the background under

29:19

an archway at the entrance to the

29:21

chapel. James, was it the ghost of

29:24

the monk? Or was it the ghost

29:26

of Reginald Hine himself? I don't know,

29:28

I don't know anymore. That's the story.

29:30

That's the story of Hertfordshire's Sexiest Vicar?

29:32

What did I say? Saucy.

29:35

No. Saucy-ish. Was

29:37

it Saucy? Sleezy-ish. He was

29:39

all of these things and more. That was great.

29:42

That was amazing. James, would you

29:44

like to score Hertfordshire's Sleezy-ist Vicar

29:46

during 1830 to 1863? Yes,

29:49

yes I am. My first category

29:51

is names. Names, yes. Right, okay.

29:54

Okay, I don't even want to

29:56

have to mention Alba Zebenezer-Fox and

29:58

Ebenezer Alba- It's hard to say, but

30:00

they got the same name, James. That's why they got away with

30:03

it for so long. I mean, they didn't go away with it

30:05

at all. They were arrested a lot. Yeah!

30:08

What was the name of his vehicle that he

30:10

would travel around on the hobby horse? No, he

30:12

had a thing. The tiddly bump. You're thinking of

30:14

his tiddly bump. I'm thinking of his tiddly bump,

30:17

which was a type of piano, of course. Not

30:19

to mention the farm. We started in the farm

30:21

at Hell End. Hell End. Oh,

30:23

my word. The Reverend Samuel

30:25

Hartop Knapp. Hartop Knapp. Too

30:28

many peas. It's five

30:30

out of five. I mean, really. It

30:32

was my favorite name. What was my

30:34

favorite name? You quite enjoyed Wisdom Boswell.

30:36

Yeah, Wisdom Boswell. Wisdom Boswell. Yeah, five.

30:38

Gotta be five. We didn't know. I

30:41

didn't even need to give you TW

30:43

Latchmore. No. Really,

30:45

I'm leaving names. I'll move swiftly

30:47

onto my second category, Supernatural. OK.

30:49

Now, don't forget the turducken structure

30:51

of the episode where we went

30:54

out to the containing story. And in

30:56

that story, there was some ghosts. So

30:58

it was a person that threatened to

31:00

be a ghost, but also had a

31:03

picture of a ghost in the place

31:05

that they wanted to haunt. But now,

31:08

maybe it's almost like a proof of

31:10

concept. Yeah, that was his plan, was

31:12

that's what I'm going to do. And maybe he achieved

31:14

his goal. Maybe for the first

31:16

time ever on this podcast, we've

31:18

heard directly from a ghost, a

31:20

pre-ghost. Well, we may have many

31:22

times heard from a pre-ghost. Capital

31:24

may even explain

31:27

a lot of things if Capital already was a ghost.

31:30

Yeah, OK. I kind

31:32

of feel that there's at best two ghosts.

31:35

OK. Well, there is,

31:37

yeah. If you buy that that one in

31:39

the picture is a ghost, then there's one

31:41

other ghost. I mean, those ghosts could be

31:43

twins. And I

31:46

could, like the fox broths. Let's With

31:48

Hall did have three ghosts, but I

31:50

accept that they didn't really feature. I

31:52

don't know anything about them apart from

31:54

that they were there. That would add

31:56

up to a five. But I feel

31:58

I can't hand out. I

32:00

can't hand out five such but you do

32:02

have a picture of a ghost and it

32:05

does look like that picture of the ghost

32:07

from Ripon same style of the cowled monk

32:09

with the sort of he doesn't quite have

32:12

Coming out of it pointing at a book,

32:14

but it's still we're still in that. Oh,

32:16

yes. We are. Yeah So I think it

32:19

is a three a three. Okay. Okay. Just

32:21

okay So one per ghost and then one

32:24

for luck one for luck. Yeah one for the pot

32:27

My next category James is mmm.

32:30

Oh now that's going a bit far Because

32:34

this pit there's people getting off with each other each

32:36

other Yeah,

32:40

that's that's going a little bit far in

32:43

I think in every respect Everything

32:45

go is taken a little bit too far

32:48

You can enjoy walking around a ruined church

32:50

but to buy it and then haunt it

32:52

that's going a little bit too far You

32:54

can give someone directions in London Of course

32:56

you can give advice about

32:58

getting around in London It can be

33:00

overwhelming for country folk building a map

33:02

of it and training them to that's

33:04

just going a bit far now Yeah,

33:06

you can like eggs It's

33:13

too much too many eggs that is too many

33:15

eggs. Yeah, it was going a bit far He

33:17

went he went too far. He flew too close

33:19

to the Sun He probably did also fly too

33:21

close to the Sun at some point. Yeah If

33:25

that hobby horse had only had wings They

33:28

look they would look like a new is a hobby Chitty-chitty

33:31

bang-bang contraption Pegasus meets Chitty

33:33

Chitty Bang Bang meets Icarus.

33:35

Oh, that's going a bit far Mmm, so I'd

33:37

like to give you a five for this but

33:39

I fear that that would be going a bit

33:43

Should I just give you a full I suppose

33:45

you should just give me because I don't want

33:47

to fall into that trap I haven't had enough

33:49

time of like lying in an open coffin for

33:51

people to get used to the idea of me

33:54

dying With

33:56

pictures stuck on the front that was my own invention

33:59

genuinely fill in physical

34:01

pain, how clever that was, James. You

34:03

got me. You got

34:05

me with one of my own ruses.

34:08

Yeah. I should have shown you some fours

34:10

beforehand that were to scale. To prepare me

34:12

for. The more than you were going to

34:14

get. To see if they got four. To

34:16

prepare you, yeah. No, I was too stupid.

34:19

Now, my final category, you wouldn't

34:21

understand, man. Who's saying

34:23

this? The argument for this is

34:25

that Reverend Allington and all of

34:28

the party-going proto-hippies are being like,

34:30

oh, no. You don't get it

34:32

square, James ShakeShaft, with your button

34:35

down life. You wouldn't understand us.

34:38

Oh, right. Yes, no. Yeah,

34:40

you might hand out a fall for

34:42

going a little bit far, but

34:45

that's because you don't even get it. Now

34:47

I'm too enthralled to the man. Yeah,

34:50

exactly. Have you ever even been upstairs

34:52

to see some naked pictures? With

34:58

Bible verse written on. Presumably with

35:00

some, yeah, just some educational equations

35:02

or something. Some improving sentiments written

35:04

around the edge. And I suppose

35:06

that's his thing as well, to

35:08

go back to the map

35:10

as well. It's like his whole thing

35:12

is kind of getting people there without

35:15

them being there. The London people, they

35:17

weren't even there in London. They

35:19

kind of got the feeling. You

35:21

weren't there, man. You weren't in London. You weren't really

35:23

in a map of the world. You were in a

35:25

pond. I just

35:27

realized you wouldn't understand man is hippies. You

35:30

weren't there, man, is the Vietnam War. So

35:32

I think we're slightly combining our idioms. But

35:34

if it gets me points, I'll accept it.

35:37

Oh, oops. Fair enough. Well, then if you're going

35:39

to go with there's the war, there's the people

35:41

who were called upon to reenact the

35:43

war live. They weren't there, man. For some reason.

35:45

That's a much better category. Can I can I

35:47

can I retroactively change my category to the better

35:50

category that you have heard? Yes,

35:52

you weren't the category is you weren't there,

35:54

man. Also, James, you and I weren't

35:57

there. And I I would have hated this

35:59

of a dancing in the middle. music and

36:01

the necking. Oh dear, oh

36:03

dear. Because it's ended up being my category,

36:05

I'd got to give it a five. So

36:09

I'm getting a five because it was your

36:11

idea. Yes. That's fine. That's fine. I'll take

36:13

it. Probably even the Fox brothers, probably on

36:15

a number of occasions, one of them was

36:17

being arrested for a crime when he wasn't

36:19

even there. They weren't even there, man. I

36:21

wasn't even there. It was one of the

36:23

other unheavenly Fox twins. Unheavenly.

36:25

Unheavenly, yes. That's Heinz adjective

36:28

to describe them. Unheavenly. Unheavenly.

36:30

And then also, yeah, because the story kind of zoomed

36:32

out as well. So it

36:34

was the story within the story that's

36:36

got the flavor of you weren't even

36:38

there. And then that ghost. And

36:41

that ghost definitely wasn't there. Yeah. But

36:43

then it was as well though, because

36:45

it was the man who reckons he's

36:47

the ghost now. So it was a

36:50

picture. If that guy does now haunt,

36:52

that is a picture of the ghost

36:54

before it was pre-ghost. Well, thank you,

36:56

James. I accept my five, four, you

36:59

wouldn't understand man slash you weren't

37:01

there, man. Yeah. I mean,

37:03

yeah. What

37:06

a great story. What a great bunch

37:08

of images that are in my head

37:10

now from that very odd vicar. Hopefully

37:12

you've put a few Bible verses around

37:14

the edges. Good. I

37:17

want a web page now called the Sexiest Chapter in

37:19

the Bible from

37:22

learnreligions.com. Yeah. It's

37:25

not great. Your waist is a mound

37:27

of wheat surrounded by lilies. James, can

37:29

you say that? I don't know

37:31

if we should probably bleep that.

37:33

Yeah. And then but this is

37:36

the sponsor's stories at the bottom. There's

37:40

wmbraahshop.com. And you know, you just

37:42

get the start of the headline

37:44

for these sort of teaser articles

37:46

things. It's a 70 year

37:48

old grandmother. Oh, great. Yeah. You get the

37:50

same thing when you're researching this story. It's

37:53

all ad ads like local vicars hate him.

37:55

Get to heaven with this one. No

38:04

summons I just want to win

38:06

the post to for on how

38:08

have we got a groovy party

38:11

of our own going on on

38:13

the discourse we do adds that

38:15

is not quite associate that I

38:17

should hope or lot less. Socio

38:19

is no God teams napkin on

38:21

the grass outside. certainly not Putting

38:24

is accessible via patriot.com Forward/norm and

38:26

Pot sign up and join us

38:28

and if you know. All club

38:30

doubts all beyond too busy running a

38:32

force news quiz on the same days

38:35

of this does asked and then on

38:37

a national tour of the United Kingdom.

38:39

oh yeah which means is ones ice

38:42

in Scotland and one dosing was thousand

38:44

Island are loads of dayton into and

38:46

oh wow where computer find out the

38:48

information about box the internet the social

38:51

Nevermore Nevermore After he came to Nevermore

38:53

the nobody else with my name. To

38:59

go. Okay, And

39:03

were promoted by to pass. Is

39:06

one common. Response:

39:11

We're on lumps in Mississippi.