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Grammarly for free at grammarly.com/podcast. That's

0:27

grammarly.com/podcast. Easier said. Done. Welcome

0:41

to Loremen, a podcast about local

0:43

legends and obscure curiosities from days

0:45

of yaw. I'm Alistair Beckett King

0:48

and I'm James Shakeshaft. James, brace

0:50

yourselves. Brace myself. Oh God. James,

0:52

comma, the listener, brace

0:54

yourselves. We've got a

0:56

spooky one. Yeah. We've got a spooky

0:58

story in the chamber. Okay. I think

1:00

I'm ready. I'm wearing a gilet to

1:02

stop my spine being tingled. Are you

1:04

actually wearing a gilet? No, I'm wearing

1:06

a hoodie when I've rolled up the

1:08

sleeves. That's the working man's gilet James.

1:11

This is the tale of a

1:13

Victorian newspaper man, a haunted mill

1:15

and a very rambunctious train

1:17

station ghost. It's Mr. Stead

1:20

and the Cole House Phantasm.

1:22

Oh, I love a train ghost. James

1:29

Shakeshaft. Alistair Beckett King. Come with

1:32

me to the North Country, if

1:34

you will. Oh, Scotland? The North

1:36

of England. Oh, okay. Yes.

1:39

The South of Scotland as it

1:41

is culturally, if not technically. All

1:43

right then. All right then I

1:45

will. I have three impossibilities for

1:47

you. Rough, almost two and

1:49

a half at least. From the Casebook of

1:51

W.T. Stead. That's William

1:54

Thomas Stead, the former editor of,

1:56

I assume your favourite newspaper, the

1:58

Northern Echo. The Echo

2:00

What This dad yeah had size

2:02

or I I know you saying

2:04

that because like wtf yeah yeah new

2:07

does what does for that sounds

2:09

full moon. He was born in eighteen

2:11

Forty Nine and and Bolton which

2:13

I assume is pronounced her Lover The

2:15

it's just one of those places

2:17

where as is no way as

2:19

know as pronounced last Network and and

2:22

Bolton symbols and Northumberland And he

2:24

died on the fifteenth of April Nineteen

2:26

Twelve. He is an English accent

2:28

James course he is as. Cool

2:30

As dead as he was famous

2:32

in his lifetime, as a crusading

2:34

newspaperman, spiritualists and Leia they said

2:37

ah well. not exactly a lie

2:39

up. He got carried away very

2:41

easily, didn't always get his facts

2:43

straight. Did go to prison for

2:46

six months. Don't look into White

2:48

House. Basically these days you would

2:50

have his own You Tube channel

2:52

breaking down the agenda and addressing

2:54

the allegations against and him himself.

2:57

So a Bad Movies Ilkka Don't

2:59

Stop Liking. Him some in it's

3:01

it's complicated Okay George Bernard Shaw

3:03

A So out we we going

3:05

into and rights it's so complicated

3:07

because good with George Bernard Shaw

3:09

would for him He said dan

3:11

he was incapable of keeping say

3:13

twenty Side effect on is hyper

3:15

I assume that so he sounded

3:17

yeah and as is hyper Cz

3:20

A was chronic. The generally was

3:22

excited nice so that's an excessive

3:24

sensitivity of the skin. he had

3:26

time to as so he thought

3:28

quite early. Strong guy. But. It

3:30

wasn't just cause fabrics he was

3:32

sensitive to. James go on an

3:34

eighteen ninety seven, he published a

3:36

revised and expanded book. Of.

3:38

real ghost stories that's how he

3:40

starts his book of all the

3:42

vulgar superstitions of the half educated

3:45

a slightly more hopefully slightly more

3:47

actor accents food no one dies

3:49

harder than the absurd delusions of

3:51

there is no such thing as

3:53

ghosts boats says what the said

3:55

before reading the contents of this

3:57

book please note that the nerds

4:00

printed in these pages I'd better

4:02

not be read by anyone of

4:04

tender years of morbid excitability or

4:07

of excessively nervous temperament. Oh

4:10

yeah I mean he's basically describing himself there

4:12

by the sounds of things but after Steds

4:14

content warning I should have my own there

4:16

are going to be references to self-harm

4:18

and quite frightening spooky business.

4:20

Oh gosh. So it this might be

4:22

a bit much if there's little ones

4:25

listening to this. This isn't for children is it this

4:27

podcast? Do children listen to this podcast James? We've

4:30

heard there were some young people

4:32

listening. If you are a child

4:34

stop being a child either

4:37

stop listening or stop being a child and

4:39

then listen to this. Yeah. It could be too

4:41

scary for you. Whoa. I mean

4:43

the first chapter we're going to is

4:45

called Evil Spirits and

4:48

Phantasms Which Touch. Oh

4:50

what the Sted. Wherein you will

4:52

hear the tale of the Cole

4:55

House Ghost which appeared in

4:57

Darlington in the 1850s. Right. This

4:59

is a real ghost James. It's a real ghost. And

5:03

this is the story of James Durham a

5:05

night watchman. James Durham. Yeah his name's James.

5:07

I know it sounds like I'm just making

5:10

up a name based on looking at you

5:12

and thinking about Durham. Yes. In

5:15

a much less good mad and doubtfire style

5:19

that was his name James Durham. And James

5:21

Durham said I'm going to try and distinguish

5:23

his accent from what's Steds

5:25

accent. What's the Steds? By doing what

5:27

I think of as a Winnott accent

5:30

which is like the you know

5:32

when there's a group of bullies there's always a tall one. Oh

5:34

yes. Yeah so that's the Winnott accent from

5:37

when I was in school. I

5:39

was a night watchman at the old Darlington

5:41

and Stockton station at the town of Darlington

5:43

a few yards from the first station that

5:45

ever existed I assumed you meant in Darlington.

5:47

Yeah because I mean where would you go?

5:50

I looked it up it actually was the

5:52

first train station. The first train station. Yeah

5:54

it never occurred to me that one of

5:56

them had to have been first. I never

5:58

would be like yeah. This is

6:01

useless. Yeah. This is

6:03

rubbish. Quick build the other one before

6:05

the train gets there. Build another one.

6:07

Ah, I've built Peterborough. No! I'll get

6:09

back to it. Basically

6:12

Darlington Station, been there for a while.

6:15

But this is the new station. This is Darlington and Stockton.

6:18

He's worked there for a long time. This was 40 years

6:20

ago at the time he was telling it in 1890. About

6:24

12 o'clock or 12.30 I was

6:26

feeling rather cold with standing here and there. I

6:28

said to myself, I will away

6:30

down and get something to eat. Now there

6:32

was a down the stairs, there was a

6:35

what's called a porter's cellar where a fire

6:37

and a gas bracket for

6:39

the fire and then he can make himself

6:41

a little bit of food. I went down the

6:43

steps, took off my overcoat and had just sat

6:45

down on the bench opposite the fire and turned

6:47

up the gas when a strange man

6:49

came out of the cool house followed

6:51

by a big black retriever. As

6:54

soon as he entered, my eye was upon him

6:56

and his eye upon me. We

6:59

were intently watching each other as he moved on

7:01

to the front of the fire. There

7:03

he stood, looking at me and a curious

7:06

smile came over his countenance. He had

7:08

a stand up collar and a cut away

7:10

coat with guilt buttons and a scotch cap.

7:12

Watch out he's Scottish, he could be Scottish,

7:14

take precautions. A breadcrumbed

7:17

hat. He

7:19

went for him James. Why? All at

7:21

once, we don't know. He struck at me and I had the impression

7:23

that he hit me. I up with my fist

7:25

and struck back at him, didn't even wait. Good,

7:28

well, you've got to be quick with your

7:30

fists if you're beating a man in a

7:32

basement. A little bit tasty I think if

7:35

you're in the old Darlington Stockton station. But

7:37

my fists seemed to go through him and

7:40

struck against the stone above the fireplace and

7:42

knocked the skin off my knuckles. The

7:45

man seemed to be struck back into

7:47

the fire and uttered a strange unearthly

7:50

squeak. I

7:53

wish they'd used any word of him squeak. Yeah.

7:56

For The scariness. It makes it sound like this

7:58

was an inflatable man. Anyone.

8:01

With an old man in Asia it's

8:04

successor got smaller and smaller cm to

8:06

landed up behind the bench. And

8:10

so he did a big squeak immediately the

8:12

dog gripped by the costs of my leg

8:14

and seem to cause me pain. The man

8:17

recover disposition cause off the dog with a

8:19

sort of click of the tom or squeak

8:21

of here said a man has been tossing

8:23

because he was annoyed about the punch easily

8:26

yes yes typical then went back into the

8:28

cool house followed by the dog. I

8:30

like did my does clanton which is

8:32

to cause some id kind seat and

8:34

he can hide the candle. A thank

8:36

you can pay to yeah just have

8:39

an update on looked into the pool

8:41

house. With. The was neither dog

8:43

nor man. A new outlet for

8:45

them except the one by which

8:47

they had entered town named James

8:49

Jimmy Durham I've added the Jimmy

8:51

own send assess eighteen ninety now

8:53

at his legs savaged by a

8:55

large dose dog James you would

8:57

expect yeah for be tooth marks

8:59

and as yes who don't look

9:01

for them than other why isn't

9:03

that We felt the dog upon

9:05

his ankle. The were no marks

9:07

left to city to get a

9:09

ghost rabies just that I'm it's.

9:12

A juvenile? Quite scary? Yeah, Definitely didn't

9:14

have the kind of story that would

9:16

cause a commotion. It

9:18

depends where it was tolls what I went

9:20

was told to the people who are to

9:22

the station and in the general area of

9:24

Darlington to the would cause a commotion the

9:26

yeah you'd think is less people wanna come

9:28

and have a look and see if there

9:30

was another entry to the cove. How interesting

9:32

the sunset was James let me tell you

9:35

it caused quite a commotion as I could

9:37

just as where'd you get to say they

9:39

actually or took it in their stride has

9:41

like smoother. Hands on him via

9:43

probably probably weather balloon men like in the

9:45

film Do That Will Be Made. In

9:49

fact he was interrogated by Old

9:51

Edward. tease oh of peace put

9:53

pudding not be venture phase putting

9:55

but it is spell our own

9:57

and but it's still funny but.

10:00

This is the paid in Peace Pudding is

10:02

just pays Us as the old spelling of

10:04

Peace. Oh. Mister. Pudding like black

10:06

pudding is are putting the as you are

10:08

it's not as us now now you would

10:10

not one that as it is that you

10:12

have been you be outraged. oh that would

10:14

peace am a deer pointedly not in the

10:16

pay business any fees. Are

10:19

many please? I'm gonna make your staff whose

10:21

the father of the railways Oh yeah so

10:23

he was of he was responsible for that

10:25

the being a station that I guess who

10:27

are him and his three sons I have

10:30

not bother learning the names of so I'm

10:32

just picturing screwed mug dumps mess house he

10:34

the father was about. Robert Louis Stevenson and

10:36

a lot more think he built I

10:38

mean George. They said they didn't do

10:40

the trains times he did the railways.

10:42

oh said right is it says collaborative

10:44

thing heap of the stations to use

10:46

lot of not area out of get

10:48

that lot driver err on the ground

10:51

for a second George I think of

10:53

self your problem. Has

10:55

yeah that's what happened except the

10:57

first move Nevada was three tossing

11:00

ducks a suffix assess assess the

11:02

so all that would face some

11:04

and times. Durham and interviewed him. Dominoes

11:07

on. To say what increase the excitement

11:09

was the fact that a man a

11:11

number of years before who's employees in

11:13

the office of the station had committed

11:16

suicide and his body had been carried

11:18

into this very seller. I knew nothing

11:20

of this circumstance nor of the body

11:22

of the man, but Mr. Peas and

11:24

others who had known him told me

11:27

my description exactly corresponded to his appearance.

11:31

Or it wasn't just as he pays who

11:33

was intimate. I don't. Have. A seat.

11:35

This is a very delicate subject or diaper

11:37

stuff but my to light of it. but

11:39

was this man the balloon he was snuffed

11:42

of the loans. Are you as a rare

11:44

it was real man. a real tickets laugh.

11:46

He was a real boy. As you will

11:49

learn because you wanted to go in and

11:51

check the room like the Apple Detective James

11:53

Yes So did the Reverend and Rekindle. Are

11:55

you looking at a different person and a

11:58

different place to the north? A

12:02

number of yeah everyone here is

12:04

just got place names all the

12:06

names of Vegetables Martin, Holly Fox

12:09

The Reverend Henry Candle believed him

12:11

and he took his story down

12:13

and he immediately go in touch

12:16

with the presidents of the Society

12:18

It Psychical Research is at present

12:20

Sweet Potato Henry Sedgwick okay dinosaur

12:22

apply see both sides with actually

12:25

see Professor Henry since with him

12:27

pretty good and rekindle wrote him.

12:30

A So the it is strange narrative to

12:32

possess assiduous. The President to the Spl expressed

12:34

a wish the solar is shown sinister. Durham

12:36

was not asleep at the time. The decision

12:39

that's a good point out that sector first

12:41

of oh yeah, great points were you asleep

12:43

amber eyes A said no he wasn't asleep

12:45

again and reply the following for reasons to

12:48

believe in that he was awake thirsty, was

12:50

accustomed as a watchman to be up all

12:52

night and f on not lightly from that

12:55

cause to feel sleepy. Secondly, he has scarcely

12:57

been and minutes in the cellar and feeling

12:59

hungry was just going to get something to

13:01

eat. Sadly if he was asleep at the

13:04

beginning of the vision he must have been

13:06

awakened off during the last. A part of

13:08

it when he had not the skin of

13:11

his knuckles both lays there is his own

13:13

confident testimony. I strongly inclined to the opinion

13:15

that there was an objective cause for the

13:17

vision and that it was genuinely up. Additional

13:20

nice his act with Henry Candle that was

13:22

Henry Candle does very good impression of why

13:24

much and had returned fire center much. Salvos

13:28

Thousand and some. That pen

13:30

pushers at the Spr may not have been

13:32

convinced times. but a desk jockeys and. Suggests

13:36

that right there ever any Kendall. Was.

13:39

Convinced he's out. A

13:41

while cause he's a loose cannon

13:43

moon. Is gonna investigate this

13:45

himself? That sense know I'd rekindled.

13:47

Give us your whatever is cited

13:49

all researcher has your off the

13:52

case out or Kenya Yeah yeah

13:54

ram. To. thy holy war

13:56

know since the a sizable

13:58

an easy meta Yeah, one of

14:00

them. That thing Egon has with the antennae that

14:02

goes... Yes! Give

14:05

us that. It's going in a drawer.

14:07

You can have it back. Handing your pants.

14:10

He went and investigated himself on October 22nd. Reverend

14:13

Kendall visited what he called the scene of

14:15

the battle with the ghost. And

14:19

slightly annoyingly, he determined that you

14:21

could probably get out of the coal house if you've

14:24

tried. Well, yeah, because the coal's got to

14:26

get in. Well, that'll be through the door, though.

14:28

Oh, yeah, you're right. They'd be like a hole. No,

14:30

they'd just chuck it in through the street, don't they? Yeah,

14:32

you're right. They're not going to bring the coal in through

14:35

the main door, are they? There's going to be some kind

14:37

of sluice. You're not going to walk coal in through someone's

14:39

house. Well, it was the porter's cellar. It's

14:42

not that luxurious. But anyway, so that's kind

14:44

of annoying. But he was guided by an

14:47

old official. An

14:49

old official who was at the North

14:51

Road station during all the period in

14:54

question. He visited the porter's room,

14:56

which was still there. He visited

14:58

the coal house and he said, my guide

15:00

remembers the clerk who committed suicide and he

15:02

showed me the place where he shot himself

15:04

with a pistol. His name

15:06

was Winter. And not

15:08

only did Winter dress just as James Durham

15:11

had described. James, he

15:13

had a large black dog. Just

15:18

like the ghost. Just like the

15:20

ghost. But I mean, did he? I

15:22

presume he didn't kill the dog, right? Well,

15:25

no, the dog probably died. It's

15:28

just the classic animal thing. What

15:30

happened? What's the logistics? If

15:32

it's a human that's associated with the

15:34

animal. It's just the loyalty of the

15:36

dog, though, isn't it? When the dog

15:38

dies, hopefully of natural causes. Yes. Probably

15:40

finds him and starts getting into fights.

15:42

Yes. And starts protecting

15:44

him against people that are chinnin.

15:47

In a book called Crossing the

15:49

Line, Trespassing on Railway Weirdness. Oh,

15:52

lovely named book. Find none

15:54

other than the Screatonizer, Paul

15:56

Screaton. Yeah, Screaton,

15:59

a welcome. Welcome return. Welcome return.

16:02

This is the Hexum Connection. Paul Screaton wrote

16:04

about the Hexum heads. The Screatonizer's still around,

16:06

isn't he? Yes, I believe so. At the

16:08

time of recording. I believe and

16:10

hope so, yes. This is a relatively modern book.

16:13

Do you think we'd ever get to meet

16:15

the Screatonizer? Perhaps even be

16:17

Screatonized ourselves. The reason

16:19

I'm a bit nervous, quoting, is that this

16:21

book is printed by Albion Press and it's

16:23

got like a really clear thing about you're

16:25

not allowed to quote from it. Ah.

16:28

Okay. So, give us the gist. The

16:31

gist of it is that there

16:33

was a follow-up investigation done later on

16:35

by Olive Howe of

16:37

the Friends of Darlington Railway Museum.

16:40

Sorry, Olive Howe. Yeah,

16:42

she's like a hill. Sorry,

16:46

just to point out there, what you've done is

16:49

you've cleverly disguised your pattern

16:51

of naming people after either a place

16:54

or a foodstuff by using the

16:56

first name of the foodstuff, Olive.

17:00

Yeah, I'm mixing it up. These

17:03

are all real people. And so

17:05

was Monroe Winter. Monroe Winter. Monroe's

17:07

a place as well. A winter

17:09

is a time, yeah. They

17:13

found the death certificate of, sorry, Thomas Monroe

17:15

Winter, age 29, who had died in

17:18

1845. Screaton

17:20

sums the story up by saying, we

17:23

had found the ghost, commented the sleuths.

17:25

He was a real guy, really happened.

17:28

Ah, nice one, Screatonizer. Can I just, can

17:30

I suggest a podcast for the Screatonizer if

17:32

he does listen? Word on the Scree. But

17:36

Scree's got a kind of a bit of

17:38

a nasty quality to it as a word, Scree.

17:40

I think it's because it sounds like ex-Scree. Oh,

17:43

yes, I suppose so. Yeah, I'm

17:45

glad I did. That wasn't how I asked if he was

17:47

still with us. I'm

17:52

sorry, Paul Screaton, sir,

17:54

Mr. Screaton. It's just that most of the people

17:57

we quote on the podcast died 100 years ago.

18:00

It's not, you know, we're not trying to

18:02

be weird. No. It

18:04

has gone weird. Yeah, we're now speaking to

18:06

one person who probably doesn't listen to the

18:08

podcast. Hopefully, hopefully doesn't listen. It's pretty clear

18:10

he doesn't. He would have mentioned

18:13

it by now, surely. I

18:15

would hope so. So if there was

18:17

only one ghost in the Darlington and Stockton

18:20

Porter seller. Two ghosts. What, one and a

18:22

dog? One ghost and his dog. Let

18:25

me tell you a tale from that

18:27

self-same book that has a lot of

18:29

ghosts, James. Too many. Too many

18:31

ghosts. Too many. I'm not even going to have time to

18:33

do all of them. I'm looking at the clock. I'm not

18:35

going to be able to cover all of the ghosts in

18:38

The Haunted Mill on Willington

18:40

Gut. What? Mm-hmm.

18:43

Willington Gut. Now, what you've done here

18:45

is you've got confused with your naming

18:47

convention and your naming a place after

18:49

a part of a person now. Willington

18:52

Gut. Willington Gut. Stead

18:55

says, all these hauntings

18:57

of castles and halls fade into

18:59

insignificance compared with the famous haunting

19:02

of Willington Mill. Willington Mill stands

19:04

on what is locally known as

19:06

Willington Gut, a sluggish title

19:09

stream which empties itself into

19:11

the tine between Willington Key

19:13

and Walls Empathies. I've never

19:15

read anybody less impressed by

19:17

everything. Mm. He is not

19:20

happy with that water. Very sluggish. Mm. Lazy.

19:23

It doesn't even pour out. It

19:25

empties itself into the tine.

19:28

The valley is crossed by a railway viaduct. The

19:30

mill itself is said to have been built on

19:32

the side of a cottage occupied 100 years ago

19:35

by a witch. But that

19:37

is a hazy and nebulous tradition which

19:40

has never been verified. So the mill

19:42

was owned by a Mr. Unthank and

19:44

a Mr. Proctor. Right, okay. They were

19:46

partners and they lived that... I

19:50

can't quite make out the situation. Their

19:52

living arrangements seem to be they lived

19:54

in the mill in alternating four year

19:56

stints Because the house was

19:58

so blimmin' haunted. we spooky noises. Nobody

20:00

wanted to live there for more than

20:02

four years. Four years at high. That's

20:04

quite a long time to put up

20:06

with an amount of ghosts. I that's

20:08

why I thought like we can week

20:10

off my be the four years on

20:12

fully as off he get used to

20:14

asbos yeah after serious bob I'm not

20:16

going to cover all the ghosts James

20:18

I'm I'm going to mention the the

20:20

lazy and lavender oh who went upstairs

20:22

somehow commission the lady and gray not

20:24

to mention them or to seat and

20:26

when it gets straight on and talk

20:28

about the noises so visual. Comes from

20:30

a Mr. Robert Davidson a normal

20:32

name I think you'll agree. Yeah,

20:35

yeah, yeah for now. So now.

20:38

And he was the son of a

20:40

house me and who spent eight years

20:42

in the haunted house in the service

20:45

of Mrs. Prompt Us. And he is

20:47

therefore a natural ass and depository of

20:49

the local legends on the subject. Sometimes

20:52

says Mr. Davidson. Of

20:55

noise was like some rock. can't

20:57

read this word. it's it's Pavia

20:59

to pave years now is a

21:01

window at it's a bit like

21:03

glazier. Hope for the for the

21:05

ground So Everglades years to windows

21:07

A Pavia is to pacing. Oh

21:09

yes very nice guy is good

21:11

but it's spelled p a the

21:13

I owe you are Oh so

21:15

I was reading as Pavlov Power

21:17

has those skills members. Yeah, Bob

21:19

was. A please Laos dans

21:21

ma thickly obviously. Is

21:24

as you're making me crazy Which off

21:27

with you on us. Something about of

21:29

law always. Fab

21:31

last name of traveling as

21:33

combat praise a lot of

21:35

noise was like appear via.

21:38

Or. patois james yeah at work with

21:40

his rama thumping on the floor naked

21:42

all things russell six that we're not

21:44

six his again it was like a

21:46

donkey gallup and around the room move

21:49

ahead at another time it was as

21:51

if are so full of scrappy i

21:53

had been thrown upon the fireplace and

21:55

sender by association is a reason to

21:57

think much of the oh pavlov No,

22:00

no, yeah. It could be a pavia

22:03

or an angry donkey. Mm-hmm. Or just

22:05

a load of... Or scrap the iron.

22:07

Yeah, just a load of scrap metal.

22:09

Which is too iron as scrappy do

22:12

is to scooby do. Hahahaha.

22:14

It's quite annoying. You

22:17

could imagine how annoying it would be to have

22:19

scrappy iron just being written in to a show

22:21

that worked. So heavy footsteps were heard going up

22:23

and down stairs. Door handles turned, doors creaked as

22:26

if they were opening. Occasionally the room would be

22:28

filled with bluish smoke. Ooh. It

22:30

was an infernal charivary

22:33

or shivery. I didn't know that word either. No.

22:36

I don't know if I'm saying it right.

22:38

It's a folk term for rough music. You

22:40

know, when people do like discordant singing as

22:42

part of a celebration. Oh.

22:44

It's spelt charivary, but I think

22:46

it's said shivery these days. Now

22:49

I know what you're thinking. We've

22:51

been there before. It sounds like

22:53

your basic, your bargain basement poltergeist.

22:55

Oh, it's a classic poltergeist. Classic

22:58

poltergeist. I'm annoyed at myself for saying

23:00

poltergeist because I have written polter guy

23:02

in my notes and I

23:04

still said poltergeist. Oh no. It's

23:06

a polter. Is it a poltergeist? No, it's

23:08

no, it is not, James. I would not

23:10

bring you here for just some noises, the

23:12

noises of a donkey or a bavoir. No,

23:16

we've got proper apparitions. Allow me

23:19

to take you into the section

23:21

of the story that W.T. Stead

23:23

calls what the state cat rabbit

23:25

sheep. Now,

23:27

he was usually very good at titles. This

23:30

is nice best work. I, but I

23:32

think you'll agree it really covers the main

23:34

features of the story. He has not buried

23:36

the lead here. I'll have to listen to

23:38

find out. So this involves

23:40

Thomas and Mary, Robert's

23:42

parents. Is

23:45

that their surnames? Because you are scraping

23:47

the bottom of the barrel if that

23:49

is your made up name thing. They're

23:51

called Thomas and Mary, Robert's parents. No,

23:53

no, they are called Thomas Davidson and

23:55

Mary something else. Eventually

23:57

Davidson and because they're not married yet.

24:01

They're courting, it's the past. But

24:04

it's the past from the past when this

24:06

was written. And

24:09

Thomas was coming around, but he wasn't allowed into the

24:11

mill. There was the mill and there was the mill

24:13

house, and he wasn't allowed in the buildings when he

24:15

was courting, because you know what servants are like. Yeah,

24:17

you cannot trust them to be in the same mill

24:19

as a woman. No, things

24:21

are good that shenanigans would occur if he had

24:23

been allowed in. So he was just standing outside

24:26

the window looking in at her, waiting for her

24:28

to finish work I think, on

24:31

a cloudless night. Stars

24:35

beamed forth their light from a

24:37

cloudless sky. When looking towards the

24:39

mill, he saw a cat

24:41

walking towards him. He beheld

24:43

what he supposed was a whitish cat.

24:46

It came walking along in close proximity

24:48

to his feet. Thinking Miss

24:50

Puss very cheeky, he gave her a

24:53

kick. Oh right. Yeah, I've

24:55

immediately lost enthusiasm for him as

24:57

a protagonist. Just kicked

24:59

it straight out. The cat didn't go Puss,

25:01

Puss, Puss. It

25:04

walked over to him so arrogantly that he immediately

25:06

tried to kick it. I think it just walked

25:08

like a cat. That's not fair.

25:10

He didn't succeed in kicking it. The

25:12

cat wins the story. Good. Because

25:15

his foot felt nothing and it quietly

25:17

continued its march, so his foot seems

25:19

to have passed straight through the cat.

25:22

Right. But I suppose cats

25:24

kind of do do that. Like if you have

25:26

a stroke to count that doesn't like you and

25:28

it just limbows under your hand. Yeah, it sort

25:30

of maintains the diff. It's got like a, well

25:32

it does have a sort of sensing thing on

25:34

it. That's what the hairs are

25:36

for. It just phases through your hand. Yeah. So

25:38

maybe that's what happened there. That might explain that,

25:40

but it won't explain the

25:43

rabbit. Uh oh. Minutes later,

25:45

something, the ghost approaches

25:48

in the form of a rabbit coming just as

25:51

close as the cat did. Does he go to

25:53

kick this as well? He went straight to kick

25:55

the rabbit. What a cheeky rabbit. It

26:00

hops along decasantly, so infuriatingly,

26:02

and he was angry because

26:04

he'd missed the cat. And

26:07

as anyone who's seen the live show knows that

26:09

I know what that rabbit was thinking. That

26:13

would be a little joke for the listeners to get

26:16

after this when that episode comes out. Yes.

26:19

That's a little sort of throw forward.

26:22

What was the rabbit thinking? We'll

26:24

never know. We don't know yet. It

26:26

counts. It counts. It counts. It's

26:28

a little bit of a joke. Do you know what rabbits think? He

26:33

determined to have a good rapatist and

26:35

took deliberate aim, but as before, his

26:37

foot went through it and felt nothing.

26:39

Probably the end of the story there.

26:41

Yeah, maybe. Not if the title's

26:43

anything to go by. Mmm, okay. A

26:46

minute later, a glowing sheep

26:48

approached. You cannot miss that.

26:50

No. It walked towards

26:52

him, but did he kick the sheep, James?

26:55

Right, okay. If there was an animal invented

26:57

that you could definitely kick and it probably

26:59

won't hurt it too much and it's not

27:01

quick enough to get out of the way,

27:04

it would be a sheep. Well, James, he

27:06

didn't kick the sheep because he was too

27:08

scared. It was

27:11

luminous. My father was fixed

27:13

to the spot. All muscular power seemed

27:15

for the moment paralyzed. He says that

27:17

the sheep moved on, disappearing at the

27:20

same spot as the preceding apparitions. My

27:22

father declared that if it was possible

27:24

for hair to stand on end, his

27:26

did just then. Mmm. Pretty

27:29

scary stuff there, James. Mmm. It

27:32

is possible for hair to stand on end. It is possible. I

27:34

thought that was weird because it is possible. Yeah. Has

27:37

he never had a little play with a balloon or

27:39

had a slightly bad quality jumper?

27:41

Yeah, I feel like he thinks that hair standing

27:43

on end is a figure of speech rather than

27:45

a thing that happens. He'd try and kick it

27:47

though if he saw it. He's probably

27:50

best he hasn't seen it. He saw a balloon. Yeah.

27:53

And it would zip away and he'd be like, oh no,

27:55

a ghost. A ghost? Okay,

27:58

that isn't scary. But James,

28:01

I want to warn you, it's just going

28:03

to get scarier from here on. So

28:05

if you found a sheep, a rabbit

28:07

and a cat scary, prepare yourselves. The

28:10

children, James, often saw things.

28:12

Stead describes them as the chief

28:15

ghost seers. No one was

28:17

allowed to tell them anything about the ghost

28:19

and any servant who told a fairy tale

28:21

in Willington Mill was instantly dismissed. No

28:24

conspiracy of silence, however, would prevent

28:26

children from seeing the ghost. And

28:28

yes, they saw your monkeys, they

28:30

saw your cat. But it

28:32

wasn't just cute little animals that

28:34

the children saw. They saw ghost monkeys. They saw

28:36

ghost monkeys, yeah. I don't know if anyone tried

28:38

to kick them. I don't have that information. That's

28:41

not fair. On one occasion, one of

28:44

the little girls came to Mrs Davidson

28:46

and said, excuse me, I'm going to

28:48

attempt creepy Victorian Geordie girl voice now.

28:50

Looking forward to it. There

28:53

is a lady sitting on the

28:55

bed in mama's bedroom. She has

28:57

eye holes, but no eyes. And

29:00

she looked so hard at me. Yeah,

29:03

I like them eye holes. That

29:05

is very scary. She had eye holes, but

29:08

no eyes. I can't believe that Dan Acro

29:10

is just becoming general old tiny guy. Oh,

29:12

that's like that picture. You know the picture

29:14

of the monk by the altar? That

29:17

spooky picture of the monk by the altar that's

29:19

in all the books. Yes. Look, sounds

29:21

like that. That wasn't the only

29:23

time she appeared. On one occasion, a little

29:25

girl told Mrs Davidson that on the previous

29:27

night, a lady had come out of the

29:29

wall and looked into the glass. She

29:32

had something tied over her head.

29:34

She had eye holes, but no

29:36

eyes. Oh, that is just got

29:38

me. If Alistair, you

29:40

know what, if it were possible for her to stand

29:42

on the edge. Please

29:45

don't kick me, James. I'm

29:47

real. I'm real. I am

29:49

luminous. I'm the signs of the sheep. James,

29:52

it wasn't just children who saw the woman with no

29:54

eyes. Stead describes

29:57

what he calls the last Apparition.

30:00

This occasion the mill was working night

30:02

and day when the engine man on

30:04

going into the engine house at midnight

30:06

saw the eyeless woman sitting there at

30:09

midnight with a while screens a slow

30:11

himself out of the window into the.to

30:13

wander through the molten water to the

30:16

opposite side and never stopped until he

30:18

reached home at Seals some three miles

30:20

off fly base one. Although I just

30:22

how sales and he in the guts

30:25

he jumped straight into the doses were

30:27

we all know is a terrible river.

30:29

Rothys. River. Ah sluggish with

30:32

that guy describes of Babbling Brook

30:34

is evident. Paul assess assess given

30:36

a lot as soon as up

30:38

to less does some of the

30:40

ghosts from the Melbourne know quite

30:42

the end of the story Watts

30:44

mean. Allow. Me to introduce

30:46

you to a clairvoyant by the

30:48

name is James Clapper Who and

30:51

a name's Jane was his goal

30:53

Jane and she's married to a

30:55

Durham minor. The city or county

30:57

that of during this time the

30:59

Pulitzer that's a plasma county itself.

31:01

As a policeman, County Durham Yes,

31:03

Jane was a plan for said

31:05

level and clairvoyant clairvoyance. Threesome with

31:07

See Clancy could be mesmerized to

31:10

travel to places had never been

31:12

and describe. I'm So in an

31:14

attempt to solve the mystery. Of

31:16

the mill. Elena. Seeds which

31:18

whose husband was professors into it with.

31:20

Move before you know that the desk

31:23

jockey the air Elena situate a Mrs.

31:25

Fraser and Doc to ask of the

31:27

Spr no doctor esses abbreviated don't know

31:29

Well as a reward I was used

31:32

to abbreviate words it over. with

31:35

his of a guy with ass. Okay

31:37

yep doctor. Earth

31:40

Zeltser Filter. As

31:43

for the I was. Mesmerized.

31:47

at the time of of of. Us

31:50

are just fill up a bit of

31:52

bread is like a software me at

31:54

as a welcome sit down and mysticism.

31:56

A message reads Emmys Razor and I'm

31:59

Doctor. As. A.

32:04

Society, Societal pressures, Division.

32:06

Same physicists survey and

32:08

they mesmerized giant. Ants

32:11

Yes, yes, He had visions in each

32:13

of dogs of rapids of monkeys of

32:16

a woman who was just like a

32:18

devil. Of most terrifying

32:20

they have visions of a man. When.

32:22

Asked if he could be a living man at

32:24

the mill now Jang said. And.

32:27

I'm. Probably gonna do the same creepy child's

32:29

voice here because this is really spooky stuff

32:31

of them. wasn't lost. Twin Peaks and this

32:33

has got real. Block. Large vibes.

32:35

Don't know. Put it be a living man

32:38

of the mill. She was asked she said

32:40

no. it is a vision. He has no

32:42

brains in his head. He looks

32:44

very serious. His eyes flashed like a

32:46

tomcat like a tigers. He has a

32:49

white dress on like a surplus. Or.

32:51

How angry he is. He so

32:53

indignant be undisturbed He does not

32:55

want the gentleman to find out

32:57

what he is. Therefore, It.

32:59

Is the man who made the noises

33:01

in the house he goes stumping about.

33:03

We did not like the woman but

33:05

the man is far worse or how

33:07

angry he is. What a commotion! The

33:10

reason the seller. They. Have not

33:12

near the whole large enough. It's not

33:14

close enough to the wall. They must

33:16

make a wide deep hole close to

33:18

the wall. And. They should take

33:21

down the wall. As. What He

33:23

says moment. As a friend, Diana was

33:25

at his require Joyce. Quite scary. yeah.

33:27

So. Bus. Ice storm

33:30

That. I started excavations

33:32

in the cellar is as a know

33:34

going to put a hole and they

33:36

dug a hole and well. It

33:38

depends on a you believe according to Mr. Propped

33:41

up. they do the whole in the cellar and

33:43

they some nothing. Boots for

33:45

a doctor for. Of

33:51

of us are you said is medallion polished.

33:54

as ssssss affects your

33:56

sister's really scares military

33:59

scariest And the introduction of

34:01

Dr. F has made us

34:04

take the spookiness seriously. No, but that's

34:06

the thing. He's the cat scare that

34:09

makes the real scare even more

34:11

scarier. A true horror film would have...

34:14

And then carrots. LAUGHTER

34:20

A triple jump scare. God, right. So

34:22

what... Yeah, they dug the hole. They

34:24

dug the hole near the wall. Well,

34:27

maybe not. Maybe it wasn't near

34:29

enough in the wall. Maybe it

34:31

wasn't deep enough. Because Mr. Proctor

34:33

claims that they found nothing. But

34:35

local gossip always asserted that when

34:37

the men dug down to a

34:39

certain depth, they came upon a

34:42

huge stone or slab beneath which

34:44

they believed the mystery lay. At

34:46

that point, however, Mr. Proctor saw said

34:49

Wellington rumour interfered, saying that to remove

34:51

the stone would endanger the foundations of

34:53

the mill. And so the

34:56

mystery remains unsolved to this day.

34:58

What was underneath that stone, James?

35:00

Oh, dear, I don't know. A

35:02

mysterious slab. It's so folkloric.

35:06

Yeah. Oh, that is really...

35:08

I haven't dug deep enough, James. That's what

35:10

James said. That has to go... Oh, God.

35:12

There, that's well scary. Yeah. I promise you

35:14

three impossibilities. That's just two. Oh.

35:17

One last semi-impossibility. Yeah. Instead was

35:19

a truculent sort of fellow. He

35:21

fell out with lots of people.

35:25

Including the Society

35:27

for Psychical Research. Yeah. I

35:30

think he thought they were too mean to

35:32

the spirits when they came through. I

35:35

don't think he liked the way they interrogated

35:37

them, sort of, and asked them questions and

35:39

tried to test whether they were telling the

35:41

truth. It's that classic ghost hunter thing. Yeah,

35:43

just be a ghost, you know. Finder. Fancier.

35:50

In Edith K. Harper's book, Stared the

35:52

Man, from 1918, she

35:54

describes the scene in 1909

35:56

in a speech which he delivered to the members

35:58

of the Cosmos Club. Chandos Street. Is that

36:01

how that's pronounced? Or is

36:03

it Chandos like Nando's? I think it's,

36:05

I don't know, it can't be Chandos

36:07

like Nando's. It can't be like Nando's,

36:09

can it? Predates it,

36:11

right? Chandos Street, West Central.

36:14

In describing what he felt to be

36:16

the barriers interposed by the Society for

36:19

Psychical Research against communication from the beyond,

36:21

he drew a graphic imaginary picture of

36:23

himself, shipwrecked and drowning in the sea

36:25

and calling frantically for help, Suppose that

36:28

instead of throwing me a rope, the

36:30

rescuers should shout back, Who are you?

36:32

What is your name? I am Stead.

36:35

W.T. Stead. I'm drowning here in the

36:38

sea. Throw me the rope. Be quick.

36:40

But instead of throwing me the rope,

36:42

they continue to shout back. How do

36:45

we know you're Stead? Where were you

36:47

born? Tell us the name of your

36:49

grandmother. Well, that is pretty typical of

36:51

the Help, said inverted Thomas. The Help

36:53

given by the SBR to the friends

36:56

who were trying to make us hear

36:58

them from the other side. That's a

37:00

real good point. Yeah. What

37:02

the Stead, actually. And hey, James, do

37:04

you remember, remember I told you he died on

37:06

the 15th of April 1912? Yeah.

37:09

Does that date ring any bells, James? It's quite

37:11

a famous date. The listeners are going

37:13

to be, they're going to be shouting. Some of the

37:15

listeners are going to know that day. Is he Archduke

37:17

Franz Ferdinand? What a

37:20

twist that would be. No, that's the wrong

37:22

date from there. 15th of

37:24

April 1912. It's a pretty big

37:26

one. You might call it Titanic. Oh,

37:30

I can't work it out. Wait a minute. He

37:33

drew a picture of himself drowning in the sea.

37:35

He described himself drowning in the sea saying, and

37:37

I quote, I am Stead,

37:39

W.T. Stead. I am drowning here in

37:41

the sea. The

37:44

15th of April 1912, the Google searches come through. Now

37:47

that was the sinking of

37:50

the Titanic. That's right. W.T.

37:52

Stead, the crusading reformer, spiritualist,

37:54

journalist, and challenger

37:57

of mainstream media view.

38:01

died on the Titanic. Wow!

38:04

Yeah, I know!

38:06

What the stead? I was surprised.

38:08

Yeah, I mean, obviously a

38:11

load of people died on the Titanic

38:13

but I'd never sort of heard of

38:15

anyone that wasn't to do, wasn't either

38:18

like the captain or... Doing an Irish

38:20

jig. Yes, or yeah. Those are the

38:22

main occupations on the Titanic. Leonardo DiCaprio,

38:24

yeah, of the people that died, or

38:27

playing music. Yeah, the people on the

38:29

fiddle and the squeeze

38:31

box. Mm-hmm. What the stead?

38:33

What a story! That was amazing!

38:35

That was genuinely quite scary. Yeah, they've

38:37

got some real scary moments in there as

38:39

well. The lady in the

38:42

others as well. Sort of a cross

38:44

between that monk in that

38:46

picture from all the... from like the Osborne

38:48

book of ghosts and the little

38:50

lady in the other. The Osborne book of ghosts.

38:52

Yeah, the Osborne book of ghosts, yes. No

38:55

point. We don't need to even do a riff. Just

38:57

imagine it yourself. Yeah, that's the

39:00

best. Not necessary. We

39:03

don't have to do all the work here. No,

39:05

that's... We've said the Aussie Osborne book of ghosts,

39:07

now it's up to you to imagine how humorous

39:09

that might be. We've done a whole episode here,

39:11

so that's enough. James,

39:15

would you like to score this episode?

39:17

Yes, yes I would. The tale of W.T.

39:20

Stead and the Cole House ghost. Would you

39:22

like to lay some scores upon it? Big

39:24

time. Yes, definitely. What you're starting

39:26

with. I'm ready. I'm going to start with,

39:28

because you had a little bit of fun,

39:31

a little bit cheeky with it. Mm-hmm.

39:33

Names. Naming. Even

39:36

as much as I'm up to

39:38

them, they were good. They were

39:40

good. Willington Gut. Jimmy Durham. What

39:42

the stead? What the stead? Claire

39:44

Voyant. I may have become confused

39:47

at the point. Proctor

39:50

and Unthank. Unthank's a good name.

39:52

Unthank, yeah. You've got Olive Howe.

39:55

Olive Howe? Ellen Sijwick, husband

39:57

of Professor Sijwick of the

39:59

SPR. The president of

40:01

the SBR, I should say. Mm-hmm. Talk

40:03

to him. Um, Miss Puss

40:06

the cat. Yeah. Robert

40:08

Devis in the last one. Yeah, it's five out of

40:10

five. There were a lot of names. A lot of

40:12

names and a lot of great names, even if some

40:14

of them said they were made up for you looking

40:17

at an Atlas. We didn't even

40:19

do ADPs. ADPs! Or

40:21

Hughie, Jimmy and Louis. I'll

40:24

take the five. Take it. I'll

40:26

take it. I'm going to go deep

40:29

beneath a mill. Too deep. Oh,

40:31

that's, yeah. It's

40:33

got real sometimes. My arm's

40:35

bent backwards. Mm. Okay,

40:38

my next category. Yeah. Supernatural.

40:41

Oh, I mean, off the

40:43

scale. Off the scale. If you just

40:46

had animal ghosts. Yeah,

40:48

there's loads. You'd have at least

40:50

four. We've got your monkeys, your cats, your

40:53

dogs. You'd have five. Yeah. That's

40:55

just for animals. Dogs. Yeah.

40:58

Dog, rabbit, cat, sheep. Although,

41:01

it's not that sheep could have just been

41:03

passing by. Yeah, we didn't

41:05

actually test the salinity of the

41:07

sheep. Yeah, and really

41:09

scary ghosts. Yeah,

41:11

I put the animals in

41:13

as fun, light relief. But then there's

41:15

some really scary ghosts on the other

41:17

side of that scale. The lady with

41:20

eye holes but no eye holes. She's like the devil. She's got no

41:22

brains in her head. They both had no

41:24

brains in their head. I didn't tell you.

41:26

But she also had. I was saving the

41:28

phrase. He has no brains in his head

41:30

because I wanted to scare you. I suppose

41:32

you could tell with her because of the

41:34

old, yeah. And that, oh,

41:36

I'm getting shivers. I'm getting

41:39

actual shivers. That's actually. Yeah,

41:41

it's a five. Dr. F's catchphrase. I'm getting

41:43

shivers. I'm getting actual shivers. Is it five again?

41:45

Yeah, that's got to be a five. Okay, all

41:48

right. I wasn't expecting you to go so well.

41:50

I'm getting shivers. I'm getting shivers. I'm getting shivers.

41:52

I'm getting shivers. I'm getting shivers. I wasn't expecting

41:54

you to go so well. Category the third. Don't

41:57

look for it. It's not there. So

42:00

there is the three animals as they

42:02

passed, they all vanished. The animals, yes.

42:04

The thranimals, they vanished, didn't they? The

42:07

lady dies. Don't look for

42:09

them. Ooh. Don't

42:11

look for the brains. The

42:14

dogs' marks on the foot

42:16

of the man who was bitten by

42:19

a spectral hound. The

42:21

original Darlington station, that's gone as well?

42:24

That's yep. Don't try and look for what

42:26

the second station is. It's a fruitless Google

42:29

search. Not information that you can find out,

42:31

really. Don't look

42:33

for a list of stations in podological

42:35

order. That's a

42:37

dream. That is but a dream.

42:40

Alistair, it's another five. I

42:43

can't argue against it. Okay,

42:45

I'm getting really nervous now. And considering

42:47

there was so much stuff there as

42:49

well, it's amazing that you managed to

42:51

score so high on things like that.

42:54

Yes, it is amazing, isn't it? I'm

42:56

really, really nervous now. I don't know if I've ever been in

42:58

this situation. I'm riding high

43:00

on three fives. I think you've

43:02

had a full house before. It

43:06

might have been lockdown fever. During the

43:08

last, say, third days of lockdown. All

43:11

right, final category. What the Dr.

43:13

F? Because

43:18

that has been your reaction to

43:20

almost every new revelation as I've

43:23

laid up on your sensational story

43:25

upon sensational story. What

43:27

the? What the flipping

43:29

flip? These are real

43:31

ghost efforts. These are

43:33

real, really spooky. It's

43:36

got to be a five. I can't not give a

43:38

five if Dr. F's getting involved. No,

43:41

Dr. F's given. But five

43:43

points in this case. Dr. F for

43:45

five. Yeah, it

43:47

turned out it was five all

43:49

along. Congratulations. Thank you. And

43:52

the secret was setting something up at the

43:54

start that I paid off at the end.

43:56

I've discovered this is the secret of doing

43:59

a stand up show. Just do a joke at the

44:01

end that reminds them something at the start and everyone's like, what?

44:04

Structure? I love

44:06

structure. Mmm.

44:09

I've got a memory. I love noticing

44:11

things I've seen before. I

44:14

didn't realize it would work. I mean, what, about 19 years

44:17

into doing this podcast? A bit late for

44:19

me to realize that's a good way of structuring a

44:21

story, but yeah, it worked well. What

44:24

was the structure? Oh, just because I told you

44:26

at the start that it was born on the

44:28

15th of April. So I just dropped

44:30

that there as a little clue and then I

44:32

brought it back right at the end. But the

44:34

fact that you didn't remember... I forgot that bit.

44:37

It's ruined it, frankly, for me. Oh.

44:42

Those files are bitter to be met.

44:45

I mean, I don't want to give you notes, but I'm

44:47

going to. If you'd have said he died on the

44:49

15th of April 1912 and he was pretty chill. Be

44:56

like, oh, be like a ripple. You think that would have

44:58

been enough? Yeah, a little

45:00

call forward, like you're thinking about the noise

45:02

rabbits make. Yes, yes, exactly. Here,

45:05

please just bear with us until you hear the

45:07

live episode where that joke is set up. You're

45:10

going to love it. Four

45:14

fives, James. Unheard of, apart

45:16

from that it may have happened before and

45:18

I just can't remember. Genuinely, my spine actually

45:21

was tangled. This gilet slash hoodie

45:23

with rolled up sleeves is rubbish. Do you

45:25

know how listeners can get a load of

45:27

bonus stuff from that episode, Alistair? What?

45:31

Yeah. Can they? Yeah,

45:33

if you go to patreon.com/lawmenpod and you can sign up

45:35

and you can get bonus episodes. You

45:37

can join the law folk discord and chat

45:39

with other like-minded law folk. It's going to

45:41

be great. I'm going to be really offended

45:43

if my attempt to do Dan Aykroyd's voice

45:45

ends up in the bonus. On the other hand, what

45:48

a treat, if it could. Maybe

45:50

some of it, well. And

45:53

thanks to Joe for editing. Cheers, Joe. I've

46:02

got Dan Aykroyd's Dad's book.

46:11

He's a ghost guy isn't he? Yeah. Dad

46:13

Aykroyd I think he's called. Dad

46:15

Aykroyd. Hmmm. Hahahaha.

46:18

Hahahaha. Hahahaha.