0:14

Welcome to Lost in the Supermarket . It

0:17

was about a month or so ago , in my Forbes

0:19

column , that I really wanted to

0:21

set the stage on one of the things

0:23

that I think is the most important aspects

0:26

that agriculture really needs to focus

0:28

on , and that's indoor farming

0:30

, specifically vertical farming

0:32

. I actually went out to Bowery

0:35

Farming in

0:37

New Jersey , went to their R&D

0:40

facility , met with the people

0:43

there , tasted a lot

0:45

of great new produce items

0:47

and then followed up with the

0:50

co-founder and CEO , Irving

0:52

Fain , who's with us today , to

0:54

talk even more about

0:56

why indoor farming and vertical

0:59

farming is so important . And

1:01

just in the New York Times last

1:03

week there was a story about how

1:06

in Provence , France , winemakers

1:08

are having to grapple with climate

1:10

change and change how they approach

1:12

the growing of century old

1:14

varieties . The taste

1:16

and I'm quoting from the Times "the taste of century

1:19

old varieties are being altered

1:21

by spiking temperatures , scant

1:23

rainfall , snap frost and unpredictable

1:25

bouts of extreme weather . Temperature

1:29

records were set in Europe , the US

1:31

, china , north Africa and the Middle East

1:33

as hail , drought , wildfires

1:36

and floods on a biblical scale

1:38

inflicted damage . So

1:40

when we look at agriculture , we have

1:42

some severe issues to

1:45

really address and address

1:47

very quickly , irving

1:49

, welcome to Lost

1:51

in the Supermarket .

1:53

Thanks so much for having me , Phil . I wish all

1:55

those statistics you just rattled off

1:57

weren't so recent for all of us

2:00

, but I'm glad to be here to talk about all

2:02

of it .

2:03

So what I want to do again

2:05

, I refer to the Forbes column that was

2:07

the beginning stage . Now

2:09

what I want to do is get more in-depth

2:11

with you and really be

2:14

able to get into your insights

2:16

and your brain on

2:18

just how important these issues

2:20

are . So I guess , to start

2:23

, how short-term climate impacts

2:26

, such as the overuse of

2:28

groundwater , which is draining and damaging

2:31

our planet , wildfires

2:33

, these extreme heat that I talked about

2:35

, have heightened the business case

2:37

for vertical farming .

2:42

It's interesting that there

2:44

isn't more conversation

2:46

about that . Water is a

2:48

resource as it relates to agriculture

2:50

and where we're

2:53

headed and the challenges that we're

2:55

being faced with right now , given

2:57

how crucial access

3:00

to that water in this country alone really

3:02

is to the whole ecosystem . We

3:04

have a vast system of aquifers

3:07

in the US underneath the ground

3:10

that actually has arguably

3:12

helped us to create this vibrant

3:15

agricultural ecosystem

3:17

and powerhouse that we've become . We

3:19

export an enormous amount of crops

3:21

, not just fresh produce , but actually enormous amounts

3:23

of grains and row crops . Much

3:26

of that is the benefit

3:28

, or from the benefit , of this aquifer

3:31

system that we have . California

3:33

, the Midwest . These

3:36

aquifers have been giving us

3:38

water for decades

3:40

and decades and decades . The problem is

3:42

they are being depleted

3:44

at enormously rapid

3:46

rates and the depletion

3:49

is happening much

3:51

, much faster than replenishment can

3:53

ever happen . And so

3:55

you are finding communities

3:57

, whether it be in the Midwest , whether it be in the West , whether it

3:59

be in the Southwest , where water

4:02

that used to be accessible at certain depths

4:04

is no longer there . We have to go deeper

4:06

and deeper , and deeper just to find some

4:09

amount of water that we can use . That

4:13

problem that we're facing today

4:15

is actually only going to get

4:17

worse you just talked about . It's

4:19

being exacerbated by what's happening

4:21

above ground , which is hotter

4:23

temperatures , general

4:26

warming . That means faster

4:28

evaporation . That means less water

4:30

that actually hangs around and seeps into

4:32

the ground and , contrary

4:35

to what sometimes people think , these day

4:37

looses of rain like what we saw this

4:39

winter , this atmospheric rivers , rather

4:42

the spring and summer , these atmospheric rivers

4:45

it actually doesn't help

4:47

. It hurts us . And the reason it hurts

4:49

us is because when

4:51

that much water falls that quickly

4:53

, it doesn't have time to actually seep

4:56

in and replenish our groundwater table . It

4:58

just rushes out to the oceans and

5:00

very little of it actually gets captured

5:02

. And so there's this reinforcement

5:04

cycle that happens when it gets as warm

5:07

as it does outside , where water evaporates

5:09

more quickly , we have

5:11

bigger rains . That water

5:13

washes away and the entire

5:15

cycle that for decades

5:18

and decades and decades earlier in the

5:20

20th century we relied on to become

5:22

such a rich agricultural nation . That

5:25

that is waning , it's changing , it's evolving

5:27

, it's changing . The

5:30

challenges we have in the US are

5:32

just one aspect of challenges that

5:34

we see around the entire world , and and

5:36

the best way to describe it is

5:38

just a much larger

5:40

volatility in climactic

5:43

events than we've ever seen before . We've

5:46

always seen changes in the climate , but

5:48

the , the Delta and

5:50

the distinction between what

5:52

you , what you see in the winter , what you see in the

5:54

summer , or the amount of rain you get , the amount of heat

5:56

you get , that has spiked

5:58

to a whole new level , and

6:01

the agricultural ecosystem that we've come

6:03

to rely on hasn't been built to

6:06

manage and handle

6:08

that level of volatility

6:10

in the way that we're experiencing it today , and so we

6:12

have to adjust . So if

6:14

we .

6:15

If we take a look at everything

6:17

that you just said , it's

6:19

a pretty dismal picture for

6:22

traditional farming Because

6:25

we're not able to control the climate

6:27

the way you know we'd like to be able

6:29

to . We're . We're seeing

6:31

reports that you know we're gonna see heavier

6:34

rains , we're gonna see hotter weather , so

6:36

, to your point , it's just gonna get worse

6:38

. So how do we really

6:41

look at the future for

6:43

vertical farming , for CEA

6:45

, in a much more

6:47

balanced way where

6:50

we can work together

6:52

with traditional farmers ? And

6:54

one of one of the notes that

6:57

that I made in my , you

6:59

know , article in Forbes was how

7:01

vertical farming , because it is more

7:04

technical in its

7:06

operation , is

7:08

really attracting younger people to

7:10

farming . So you know

7:12

, we're gonna have more new farmers who

7:15

are smarter , that are vertical

7:17

farmers . We're CEA and

7:20

you know how . How are we gonna

7:22

deal with this with , with you running ? You

7:25

know Bowery , you

7:27

know you . You've got to be looking at

7:29

it and saying you know , I

7:31

got a bill Bowery to be

7:33

10 or 20 times the size

7:35

of what you are now

7:37

. And now you're big , you're selling

7:40

, you know , thousands of supermarkets around

7:42

Around the country

7:44

, but you've got to grow even

7:46

faster to solve this issue .

7:49

Yeah , it's interesting , the the

7:51

imperative for what we're doing , phil

7:53

, has never been clearer and and

7:56

yet , and there's a sense in

7:58

in today's world where , where

8:01

there's a sense of immediacy in

8:03

our needs and and we live

8:05

in a world of instant gratification , right , you

8:07

look at tiktok and Instagram and social media

8:09

and our phones in our hands all the time , and so

8:11

I . That translates in

8:14

some ways to Expectations we

8:16

have for bigger innovations and societal

8:18

trends and , understandably , we

8:20

find exciting new opportunities and innovations

8:22

and we want them to blossom and be there tomorrow

8:25

. And and don't get

8:27

me wrong , I would love to be 20 times larger tomorrow

8:29

as well . But you know

8:31

, there is a real truth in

8:33

the long road to overnight success and you

8:36

know we're excited about re . We're the largest

8:39

in their vertical farming company out there . You know we're

8:41

an over 2600 retail stores today . That's

8:43

a great footprint , but we still have so much

8:45

further to grow and so much further to go

8:47

and Even when you look at the

8:49

entire industry , we're still

8:51

a smaller portion of a much

8:53

larger opportunity which today is really

8:55

driven by field grown agriculture , and what

8:58

you're seeing is a lot more

9:00

pressure that's going to be applied on field

9:02

grown agriculture from many , many different

9:04

angles . I mean , we've talked about climate . The

9:07

climate challenges is very real . Most

9:09

of our fresh produce comes from either

9:12

the Salinas Valley in California or

9:14

it comes from the uma , arizona and the southwestern

9:16

region . That that's what's what we grow

9:18

in this country . And Again

9:21

, we were talking about the aquifers . You know it

9:23

, since 2003 in the Central

9:25

Valley , losses total

9:27

about 36 million acre

9:29

feet of water . That is 1.3

9:32

times the full water storing

9:34

capacity of Lake Mead near

9:36

Las Vegas , which is the large

9:38

, largest reservoir we have in the country . So

9:41

we have lost a lot of water there and that's going

9:43

to continue . But it's not just a story of water

9:45

. We talked about drought . We've had the 1200

9:47

year drought that's ravaged the West , the

9:49

Southeast , even the Midwest . Then

9:52

you have labor challenges , where labor

9:54

is becoming harder to find , labor

9:56

is becoming more expensive . All these components

9:58

are impacting the outdoor agricultural ecosystem

10:01

. There has to be a response . That

10:03

said , our supply chain has

10:05

been built over for decades and decades

10:08

, hundred plus years , and so we

10:10

are going to see a world where

10:12

vertical farming is going to become a larger

10:15

and larger portion of the grocery

10:17

store and it's going to become a larger and

10:19

larger portion of the crops that you find in the

10:21

Produce aisle . But that won't happen overnight . Will

10:24

it happen more rapidly and more quickly

10:26

? Absolutely , the adoption curve

10:28

is going to increase , but changes

10:31

that are systemic like this still

10:33

take time , no matter how strong

10:35

the tailwinds are and how strong the desire

10:37

is .

10:39

So we've talked about outdoor

10:41

Agriculture , we've talked about

10:43

farmers . Let's move to

10:45

consumers . You know , like , what's

10:47

the benefit to consumers For

10:50

vertical farming ? What

10:53

? What are they going to realize

10:55

? Is it just going to be , you know , more

10:57

of the same ? Is it going to be higher prices ? Of

11:00

? What benefits do consumers really

11:02

get from this ?

11:04

What's great about what we do at Bowery

11:06

and Vertical or the vertical farming at Bowery

11:08

is there are both benefits

11:10

to consumers and there are very real benefits

11:13

to retailers . So let's talk about

11:15

retailers first . Okay , you

11:17

see the highest shrink in

11:19

the retail store in fresh

11:21

produce , of course . Now it's a perishable product . It goes

11:23

bad and one of the real challenges

11:25

retailers have and have had for

11:27

as long as it is time essentially

11:29

and you know this very well is how do I buy enough

11:32

produce to make sure that people have it , but not enough

11:34

, that it's boils and goes bad ? That's both an

11:36

economic problem for retailers and it's a food waste

11:38

. It's an environmental sustainability problem

11:40

as well . Food waste is a very real

11:42

thing in the grocery store , let alone in our

11:45

shelves or in our refrigerators at home

11:47

. And when we deliver

11:49

a product at Bowery , we deliver

11:51

that with 20 plus days of shelf life . Yeah , we deliver

11:53

our product 24 hours

11:56

to 48 hours after it's been

11:58

harvested . It reaches our retailers

12:00

, compared to weeks of time or months

12:02

of time in the existing supply chain . So the product shows up

12:04

. It's more nutritious

12:06

because it loses less nutrients in that time

12:08

. It's higher quality , it tastes better and it lasts . That's

12:11

good for the retailer across the board . Now

12:13

you talk about a consumer . The consumer takes those same benefits

12:16

, right , you bring

12:18

home . We've all had that experience where you take home some produce

12:20

and it feels like a day

12:22

later it's bad and you're throwing it away . Or you're trying

12:24

to eat it and you're picking around the bad parts

12:26

of the produce . So having

12:29

a consumer experience where what you're buying is staying fresh

12:31

your refrigerator for a week , two weeks

12:33

Hopefully you've eaten it by then

12:35

, but if you haven't , it's still fresh that's

12:37

great . Having a having

12:39

produce that's more nutritious , that tastes better

12:41

, that's really valuable . And

12:44

then there's the component of it where consumers

12:46

are asking questions now , where's my food coming from ? Where

12:49

is it grown ? What's on it ? What's in it ? People

12:52

don't like pesticides . I mean , you read about

12:55

the dirty dozen every single year . There's a reason that gets

12:57

published . People don't want chemicals

12:59

and pesticides on their food and on their produce . That's what's interesting

13:01

. Organic is a

13:03

great step forward in the way that

13:05

we grow food , but organic still

13:07

uses pesticides and consumers often don't

13:10

know that . So to provide people

13:12

with a completely pesticide free product with total

13:14

transparency , you know exactly

13:16

where it came from . You can trace it back

13:18

to exactly where it was going , how it was grown . We're

13:21

very straightforward about that , because answering those questions for

13:23

consumers is important . And then

13:26

it's more nutritious , it lasts longer , it tastes better

13:28

. That's a lot of benefits for consumers

13:30

, and we're selling

13:32

our product at or below the cost of field grown , branded

13:34

organic product , and so

13:37

it's a good consumer proposition

13:39

and an importantly valuable retail proposition as

13:41

well .

13:43

So we see behind you these

13:45

racks of produce

13:47

items growing . Let's

13:49

talk a little bit about the technical

13:52

aspect of vertical farming . It's

13:54

not just having racks with

13:57

dirt and

13:59

plants in there . Really

14:02

talk about the technology

14:04

that's involved . Talk about how it works

14:10

.

14:10

You asked something before that I didn't really cover and

14:12

I want to use this . It's a good opportunity . Farmers

14:15

are actually quite technical , as you know

14:17

Field-based farmers . In fact

14:19

, farming is a

14:21

technology-focused craft

14:24

and has been for quite some time . It always bothered

14:26

me when people said , oh , there's been no innovation in

14:28

farming . I always kind of said that's not true at

14:30

all . In fact , there's been enormous

14:32

amounts of innovations in farming . It's just different

14:34

types of innovation . There's a deep

14:37

technical focus in the way we grow

14:39

and harvest and manage our land

14:41

. Today . What we're doing at Bowery

14:43

is we're bringing different technologies in

14:45

a different approach . You have a

14:47

set of farmers already who are becoming a

14:49

lot more conversed with technology already

14:52

. What we're doing is bringing

14:54

a different type of technology , a different manner

14:57

of growing To the point you made earlier

14:59

. It certainly attracts either

15:02

a different type of farmer or

15:05

at least it opens the door to

15:08

individuals and younger people

15:10

who may not have ever considered farming

15:12

because they don't live near farmland or they

15:14

don't come from a farming family

15:16

. What we do at Bowery offers them an opportunity

15:19

to be a part of growing food , which is

15:21

something that's been cordial our country since the

15:23

founding of our country . There's something very nice

15:26

and fulfilling about being able to feed the community

15:28

you're a part of . We're giving that

15:30

opportunity to people who may not have grown

15:32

up anywhere near anything related to farm

15:35

. How does that happen ? You asked about technology

15:38

. As you said , this

15:40

does not look like Old McDonald's farm . I

15:43

can attest to that

15:45

. It is still growing food , with the same

15:47

things that happen in essence outside , just

15:50

in a little bit different . We stack our

15:52

crops to the floor of the ceiling . We grow under

15:54

lights . They mimic the spectrum of the sun

15:57

. We grow in a totally controlled and contained environment

16:00

. That means we can grow 365

16:02

days of the year , independent of weather , independent

16:04

of season . Now it's reliable , consistent

16:07

supply of quality produce year-round . No pesticides

16:09

, no herbicides , no fungicides

16:12

, no insecticides . It's pure and clean produce

16:14

. Through our

16:16

system , we're able to give

16:18

all of our crops exactly

16:21

what they need when they need . So they're getting the

16:23

water they need , they're getting the light they need

16:25

, they're getting the nutrients they need , they're getting

16:27

a healthy microbiome around the root

16:29

system that they need

16:31

. That happens through a system we've developed

16:34

called the Bowery operating system . The

16:36

Bowery OS is a combination of software

16:39

and hardware , ai , computer

16:41

vision and a center and control network and

16:43

that helps us not only monitor

16:46

and maintain the conditions across

16:48

our entire growth space , but

16:50

actually monitors and maintains the entirety

16:53

of our supply chain , from before we

16:55

ever supplant a seed , all

16:57

the way until we harvest , package

16:59

and ship out our product . And

17:01

that point is very important because

17:04

sometimes people look at what we're doing at Bowery

17:07

and they define it as farming . And

17:09

of course we are farming . Farming is a part

17:11

of what we do . We grow food you can see it behind me but

17:14

in fact what we're doing is we're

17:16

developing technology that

17:18

really allows us to reinvent

17:20

the fresh produce supply chain and

17:23

we build a simpler supply chain . It's

17:25

a shorter supply chain , it's a safer

17:27

supply chain , it's a much more sustainable

17:30

supply chain and we have much more surety

17:32

of supply . And we do that

17:34

by essentially collapsing today's supply chain , which is thousands

17:37

of miles long , it's weeks or months of time and

17:40

there's so many different players along the way which

17:42

create lots of loss and inefficiencies . And

17:45

we collapse that down into a building and we

17:47

put that building close to where our consumers

17:50

are and where our customers are and

17:52

we can deliver a product that they said before 24

17:54

to 48 hours after harvest .

17:57

So the

18:00

traditional farmer and I'm not

18:02

sure what I'm saying outdoor farmer , you

18:04

know , doesn't have to deal

18:06

with all those racks

18:08

, the technology , all the expense

18:11

that Bowery has

18:13

. So you know to

18:15

you mentioned before that

18:18

vertical farming is

18:20

a small piece of agriculture

18:22

, outdoor agriculture

18:24

farming today . Yep , isn't

18:27

it going to be too expensive to

18:29

to build ? You know , these

18:31

kinds of vertical farms not

18:33

only throughout the US . And you

18:36

point out that you're close to the marketplace

18:38

so you can deliver fresher

18:40

. That real estate is more expensive

18:43

than some of the real estate

18:45

for farmland in the middle of the country

18:47

.

18:48

Well , we won't even go

18:50

into the conversation about cost of farmland , because

18:52

farmland is certainly not getting any

18:54

cheaper , it's getting much more expensive . But

18:57

but we actually building farms

19:00

in the middle of an urban , in Metropolis

19:02

is not an efficient endeavor . It's

19:04

not what we do . Our farms are located kind of

19:06

outside the urban centers , actually closer to

19:08

our retail partners , distribution centers . That's

19:11

the most efficient way to get our product there . But

19:13

you're absolutely right , there's an

19:15

expense to building our farms . It's

19:18

not , you know , it's not an extremely

19:20

cheap endeavor . But comparing

19:22

this against the farm isn't the right comparison . You

19:24

have to compare what we've built to

19:27

the entirety of the supply chain , which is not

19:29

just the farm , it's all the equipment . Then it's

19:31

the processing that has to happen and the packaging

19:33

that has to happen , and the cold storage

19:35

that has to happen , and the distribution

19:37

and the actual cold chain and all the

19:39

shipping and transport that has to happen . And then , when you start

19:41

adding all of that up , there's

19:44

quite a bit of cost , there's

19:46

quite a bit of time and there's quite a bit

19:48

of inefficiency that lives in

19:50

all of those steps to go from growing

19:52

a crop all the way to delivering a crop in

19:55

today's traditional ecosystem . And

19:57

where the efficiencies emerge is

19:59

by collapsing all that down into one place

20:01

, eliminating the need in many

20:03

cases for things like processing and washing etc

20:06

. Which do a lot of damage to the crop , they

20:09

destroy the shelf life , they destroy the quality

20:11

of the crop and being able to

20:13

essentially grow and ship

20:16

much more quickly , much

20:18

more efficiently , and you

20:20

eliminate a lot of those steps , a lot of the

20:22

capital that goes into those steps and a lot of the inefficiencies

20:24

into those steps . So that's why I said

20:26

before it isn't the like for

20:29

like in today's supply chain . It's actually

20:31

a complete reinvention and reimagination . So

20:34

is there a cost of capital ? Yeah , absolutely , capital

20:36

has to go into this , but there's a lot of capital

20:38

costs and cat-backs that has to go into today's entirety

20:40

of its supply chain Building these distribution

20:42

centers , the shipping and the trucking that has to happen

20:45

, all the equipment on the farm . And

20:47

the truth is , as we have more

20:49

and more challenges around climate , the

20:52

requirement in the capital needed

20:54

to adapt to more sustainable farming is

20:57

going to be extremely expensive . There

21:00

is a lot of capital is going to have to go into today's

21:02

system just to try to manage

21:04

against what is a very

21:07

, very difficult , uncontrollable

21:09

set of circumstances outside and there's no guarantee it would

21:11

work .

21:13

And you mentioned earlier that the

21:15

Bowery produce items that are delivered to

21:18

your 2,600 supermarkets

21:20

are the same price or

21:22

less than People

21:25

might be paying now for a conventionally

21:27

grown with your organic produce .

21:29

That's right . So you're here , you're competing

21:31

on the with an organic product today , and

21:34

that's important so look

21:36

into your crystal ball urban and

21:39

where is ?

21:40

where is Bowery and

21:43

the produce industry in

21:45

five years from now ?

21:46

and and you know I this ties to one other

21:48

thing I didn't say about your last question Innovation

21:51

takes time to develop . You know , we , we

21:53

could all . Let's just take

21:56

it , it's such an obvious example . But take

21:58

, take what's happening with electric vehicles right now

22:00

. It was not too long

22:02

ago , you know , call it 15 years

22:04

ago Maybe , maybe 20 years ago , where

22:07

people were convinced that electric vehicles

22:09

were never gonna be possible , they were never

22:11

to be profitable , you were never gonna be able to build them

22:13

, you're never gonna be able to scale them , you

22:15

would never be able to make them even remotely affordable

22:18

for anybody . And it was a fool there

22:20

and to even be thinking about an electric vehicle

22:22

. And you fast

22:24

forward to today and it's hard

22:26

to argue that EVs

22:29

are transportation's future

22:31

and that's come from

22:33

time and

22:35

the innovation that happens

22:37

around technology curves and we

22:39

have so much of that innovation that

22:41

we get to benefit at Bowery as well , though the obvious

22:44

one that everybody talks about is the innovation

22:46

and improvements in lighting and LEDs that

22:48

we've seen . That transpired . It will continue to

22:50

take place . But we have innovation

22:52

in Computing power and what you can do

22:55

with artificial intelligence and what you can do with computer

22:57

vision and the way we use that at Bowery is

22:59

it helps us to grow more efficiently

23:01

. It helps us to grow more productively

23:03

, more sustainably , and helps us to operate

23:06

more efficient , effectively and more efficiently

23:08

as well , and all of our farms are

23:10

connected through the operating system . So the

23:12

more farms we build , the stronger

23:15

our network gets , the more we learn and

23:17

the more improvement you see , and so

23:19

there's so many tailwinds

23:21

from a technological perspective . That drives improvement

23:24

, cost improvement , productivity improvement

23:26

, quality improvement , breath of product

23:28

improvement , and so we've seen

23:30

it with EVs , we've seen it with renewable

23:32

energies . There the world

23:34

is filled with today with

23:37

ubiquitous technologies that at some

23:39

point were impossible and never going to exist

23:41

. All right . So what is the future look like

23:43

? I can say it's in five years . What

23:45

I can tell you for certain is Vertical

23:48

farming is going to be a much more

23:50

important aspect of not

23:52

only the US food system but the global

23:54

food system . It's going to represent

23:56

a larger share of produce , not just

23:58

in the categories we're in today , but

24:00

it's gonna represent a larger share across

24:03

more categories as well , because

24:05

we've talked a lot about climate , but the other thing

24:07

we haven't talked about is food security

24:09

, is national security , and In

24:12

the world we're living in today , where there's

24:14

lots of questions about globalization , there's

24:16

lots of questions about regionalization

24:19

, security of supply chains

24:21

and regional supply chains . What

24:23

we can provide at Bowery is that

24:25

reliable , consistent supply

24:27

of produce in any region , anywhere

24:30

in the world , year-round , and that has a lot

24:32

of value too . So you're going

24:34

to see more focus , more attention

24:36

, more energy around

24:38

indoor farming and vertical

24:40

farming and you're gonna see it take a bigger stage

24:43

in the pros . Doesn't mean it's gonna be

24:45

the only answer . Farming

24:47

and agriculture is a huge industry

24:49

that requires many different solutions

24:52

to help solve the problems in front of it . There

24:54

will always be outdoor agriculture . We

24:56

need outdoor agriculture . There's lots of other

24:58

great innovations that we're seeing around

25:00

inputs , biological inputs

25:03

, etc . They're gonna all

25:05

take place . Take

25:08

it to be a part , rather , of the solutions

25:10

that we're gonna need in the coming decades as

25:12

we think about food , agriculture and climate

25:14

. But there's no question , vertical farming

25:16

has a very important place on the

25:18

mantle in the produce space as

25:20

we move forward .

25:22

Irving , thanks so much for joining us today

25:24

. I'm lost in the supermarket and

25:27

we'll be looking for Bowery to be

25:29

20 times the size in just a few

25:31

years .

25:33

Thanks so much for having me , Phil .