0:01

This is doctor Lisa Marie Bobby, and

0:03

you are listening to the Love, Happiness,

0:05

and Success Podcast. Conflict

0:08

is a normal and even healthy

0:10

part of every relationship, but

0:14

not easy to it can be very

0:16

tempting to avoid conflict

0:19

and avoiding conflict

0:21

can in itself health lead

0:23

to a lot of relationship trouble.

0:26

So how can you stop avoiding

0:28

conflict and start navigating it

0:31

with compassion, courage

0:33

and skill. That is

0:35

what we're talking about on today's episode.

0:46

So fun. This is Lawrence

0:48

Guy with this track.

0:51

You do your best. To hide

0:53

the good parts of yourself. That

0:56

is actually what the song was called. And

0:58

I chose it because sometimes

1:01

avoiding conflict really is

1:03

actually hiding

1:06

the very best most authentic

1:08

and bravest parts

1:11

of yourself, believe it or not.

1:13

So hold on to that idea. We're gonna

1:15

come back to it. And in the meantime, you

1:17

can check out Laurent's guy

1:19

and see more about what he's up to

1:22

on his band campaign. Lauren's

1:25

guy Laurence with AULAURENCEGUY

1:30

dot banquim dot com. Today's

1:33

episode is all about

1:36

something I know that so

1:38

many of you struggle with in your

1:40

relationships either within

1:42

yourself or because

1:44

you are experiencing those with your

1:46

partner or someone else you love and that

1:49

is conflict avoidance.

1:51

I tell you, I see this

1:54

all the time. Many of my

1:56

couples counseling clients will come to see

1:58

me for the first time. You know,

2:00

if sometimes after they've had a terrible

2:02

terrible fight, right, that it can be

2:04

the catalyst for their arriving

2:07

in my office, they're scared to death Like,

2:09

is this over? Is a relationship ever

2:11

gonna be the same again? You

2:13

know, it's been bad? But

2:16

it is equally true, probably

2:18

even more true that there's

2:21

a different catalyst for people showing

2:23

up in the marriage counseling office. And that

2:25

is when they are not able

2:28

to have productive conversations

2:32

or AKA conflict about

2:34

things that matter, you

2:37

know, they are actually

2:39

actively avoiding, talking

2:42

about things, at least with with one

2:44

partner. And because

2:46

of that, their relationship

2:49

is really really struggling

2:52

as a result. It's

2:54

at the end of the day to have a

2:56

bad fight even when people say,

2:59

you know, regrettable things is

3:01

not nearly as cumulatively

3:04

damaging to the health and wellness

3:06

of a relationship as not

3:08

talking about important things

3:10

at all. Because Whenever

3:13

we avoid conflict, our

3:16

relationship problems get

3:18

worse. We get further

3:20

and further out of alignment with

3:22

each other until, you know, the

3:25

situation doesn't feel tolerable anymore

3:28

If we're not talking about important

3:30

things and actively resolving

3:32

issues in a courageous and direct

3:35

way, it's very easy to become

3:37

resentful. If we're not

3:40

talking with our partner, we begin

3:42

talking to ourselves. Right? We start

3:44

believing these negative stories

3:48

that we have going on in our heads about

3:50

our partner, about their character. And

3:53

you know, if slash when, we finally

3:56

can't take it anymore. And all of that resentment

3:58

and negative storytelling, finally

4:01

does spill over into a fight,

4:04

it is likely to be one of those

4:06

really nasty ones that's hard to repair

4:08

and move on from especially if

4:11

you haven't been kind of developing

4:13

that relationship repair muscle.

4:16

Right? That's actually one

4:19

of the biggest strengths and

4:21

most positive things is when

4:24

you are able to address conflict

4:27

or differences openly and

4:29

authentically and well.

4:31

You are developing relational skills.

4:34

You are learning how. To

4:36

manage yourself, to manage your

4:38

communication, to manage your partner,

4:40

and productive ways that contribute

4:43

to problem solving, contribute to positive

4:46

change. And if you've been avoiding things

4:48

all along and haven't been developing

4:50

those skills and abilities, when you

4:52

do have a serious for

4:54

real capital f fight. It's

4:57

it's like you don't have

4:59

any road map to guide you

5:01

in that situation. You don't know what to

5:03

do, and that's one of the reasons why

5:06

conflict can feel so scary. You

5:08

know, it's not the conflict itself, but it's

5:10

not feeling competent to know how

5:13

to deal with it. Right? So

5:16

We're gonna talk about this today. If

5:18

you are someone on the end

5:20

of the spectrum who tends to avoid

5:23

conflict, that is completely understandable.

5:28

Conflict, especially if

5:30

we aren't skilled

5:32

in navigating it or understanding what

5:35

it means or or even if

5:37

we have, like, you know, negative perceptions

5:41

or narratives about what

5:43

conflict is that we may have

5:45

inherited from our family of

5:47

origin. Right? Conflict

5:50

can feel very, very scary and intense.

5:52

We wanna back away from it.

5:54

And I mentioned the family of origin thing because

5:56

if you come from a family, where

5:59

people didn't model how

6:02

to have disagreements and

6:04

talk about them in productive ways. And

6:06

if you didn't watch your parents kind of

6:08

having very normal relationship patterns

6:11

where there's a gap, there's

6:13

a difference, and then you see them talk about

6:15

it, and they come back together again. If

6:17

that wasn't modeled, you know, I mean, if your

6:19

parents even if they did have conflict, if

6:21

they have this this core belief that they couldn't

6:23

do any of that in front of the children. Right? And

6:25

if they were working through things that was happening

6:28

behind the closed door of their bedroom, you

6:31

didn't get a model for how to do

6:33

that. So that can be one,

6:35

you know, really common reason

6:37

why conflict does feel

6:40

bad for people. And so

6:42

in these moments, you know, when conflict

6:44

kind of flares or, you

6:46

know, there's some sort of difference or disagreement

6:49

or you're like, no, actually, I think

6:51

I'm, you know, experiencing something. Should

6:53

I say something about this? can

6:55

create a lot of anxiety inside

6:58

of yourself. Right? And

7:01

our natural response to

7:04

fear is typically flight

7:07

or freeze, either

7:09

of those can be appropriate

7:12

when we're in really scary situations. And if

7:15

conflict feels scary for you, that might be

7:17

what you do. Now, of course, there

7:19

is also the fight response

7:21

to fear, and that can be

7:24

problematic in itself. You know, if

7:26

your way of managing conflict

7:28

is to also go full front

7:31

poles scorched earth, you know, in

7:33

those moments because that is what you've had

7:35

modeled for you. That is also typically

7:38

not helpful. So what

7:40

we're gonna be talking about today is

7:43

the middle path. Right? How

7:45

to be able to address

7:48

differences, address issues

7:51

out in the open and respectful and

7:53

authentic way and really

7:55

develop that important relationship

7:58

skill that will not only prevent big

8:01

nasty fights, it makes your relationship

8:04

stronger and much more sustainable

8:07

along the way. So

8:09

we're gonna be talking about many different

8:11

facets of this today. This is a good one to

8:14

pull out your notepad and take some notes

8:17

if this has been an issue in your relationship.

8:20

And, you know, as a little activity

8:22

to support the health and growth

8:24

of your relationship. I mean, if you're listening

8:27

to this by yourself for the first time. That's

8:29

awesome. You can absolutely create

8:31

so many positive and systemic changes

8:34

on your own and your relationship if

8:36

you are learning and growing and

8:39

trying to do things a little bit differently

8:41

in your interactions with your partner, you're

8:43

going to get better results, and that's fantastic.

8:46

So you could just do this on your own. And

8:48

it might be a really interesting experiment to

8:50

listen to this podcast with

8:53

your partner or potentially they're

8:55

open to it, you know, send it to their partner and

8:57

encourage it to listen on their own

8:59

and and then, you know, talk about

9:01

the things that we talk about together today.

9:03

So let's dive

9:06

right in. First of

9:08

all, to define our terms, which

9:10

is always so helpful. Let's talk

9:12

about what we mean by

9:15

conflict. Air quote, conflict. Right?

9:17

What is conflict? So

9:20

conflict essentially is

9:22

any kind of exchange that

9:24

we have with someone where we

9:26

have differences. Right?

9:29

Our needs, our wants,

9:31

our perspective is

9:33

not in alignment with

9:35

another person's needs or wants

9:38

or perspectives. And and

9:40

there is a misalignment that

9:44

means to be addressed because

9:47

it can cause us to feel threatened,

9:49

it can cause us to feel hurt, frustrated,

9:53

even unfulfilled, right, when we

9:55

have misalignment in our relationship.

9:57

And when that misalignment isn't

10:00

important enough for us to feel. Threatened

10:03

necessarily, like, if it's not a super

10:06

serious thing, you

10:08

know, we can those are easier

10:11

to manage. Right? We can call that

10:13

difference of opinion. We

10:15

can call it, you know, tomato tomato.

10:17

We have preferences. Right? And those can

10:19

be somewhat easy to to

10:21

manage even if you do avoid them

10:24

because they're not you

10:26

know, existential threats to your relationship

10:28

or something that's really making either of you feel

10:31

hurt. Like, there is certainly

10:34

a lot of wisdom even sometimes in

10:36

acknowledging differences and opinions

10:38

and preferences and letting stuff

10:41

go. That's completely fine.

10:43

It is also a myth that

10:45

in every couple or in every relationship,

10:48

you do need to be aligned with

10:51

everything. Right? Including and

10:53

especially differences in opinions,

10:56

preferences, but even bigger than that.

10:58

I mean, you could have differences in some

11:00

values. You can have differences in life

11:03

goals and dreams and significant differences

11:05

even in personalities or ways of

11:07

relating or ways of problem solving. And

11:09

as I have talked about in previous podcasts,

11:13

you know, these differences can actually

11:15

be a source of great strength and

11:18

satisfaction in a relationship. If

11:20

we can acknowledge them and

11:23

also appreciate them, and

11:25

value the differences that our partners

11:27

bring to a table, the table. So

11:30

I I don't want you to think for a

11:32

minute that I am saying

11:34

that all differences signify

11:37

a need to get into alignment.

11:40

There can be lots of space.

11:42

Lots of differences, lots of variability

11:45

in a healthy relationship, and that

11:47

is a good thing. I

11:50

see a big mistake that many couples

11:52

make is big, vicious

11:54

fights about trying to make

11:56

the other person be more like

11:59

them. Rather than

12:01

working to appreciate their

12:03

partner for who and what they are. So

12:06

I just wanted to say that before we get

12:08

further into the topic of conflict. But

12:12

there is, you know, aside from

12:14

that, there are conflicts, there

12:16

are issues that carrying

12:19

with them more emotional weight

12:21

than that. Again, going back to that idea

12:23

of it's a difference that feels threatening.

12:25

It is a difference that is making

12:27

it. So either my needs aren't getting

12:30

met or your needs aren't getting met. It's causing

12:32

frustration. It's causing hurt. And

12:35

it feels problematic. Right?

12:37

First of all, it's important to know

12:40

that this is very

12:42

normal, very expected and

12:44

just because you have this experience in

12:46

your relationship doesn't mean

12:49

that something is wrong. It doesn't mean

12:51

that something is wrong with you. Or your

12:53

partner or your relationship.

12:56

It is only saying, oh,

12:58

I am having an emotional reaction

13:01

to something that I just learned is

13:04

important to me. You're having a

13:06

feeling in a previous podcast

13:09

or recorded recently. We talked about

13:11

how to listen to your

13:13

feelings. Right? How

13:15

to get connected to your emotions and,

13:18

you know, going back to the ideas in that podcast,

13:20

All feelings are is information

13:23

about things that are important or

13:25

important to you. Right? So

13:28

that is all this is. And

13:30

I also wanted to very openly

13:32

dispel the myth of

13:34

what conflict is because One

13:36

of the reasons why people have

13:39

so much fear and anxiety and

13:41

have so much difficulty in addressing conflict

13:44

in the first place is this narrative

13:46

that conflict is bad.

13:49

Conflict is something that only

13:51

happens in maybe not so

13:53

great relationships. If we're having

13:55

conflict, that means that maybe

13:57

we're not compatible or,

14:00

you know, maybe we have problems in our relationship

14:02

that are, like, big deal problems. No.

14:04

That is not true. Literally, every

14:07

person has differences with

14:10

the people that they are connected with and in

14:12

every relationship. Even the

14:14

healthiest relationships, there are

14:16

differences that feel significant, significant

14:19

enough to be triggering. The only

14:21

difference between couples that are happy

14:23

and satisfied and successful long

14:25

term and the ones that aren't isn't the

14:27

presence or absence of conflict. It

14:29

is how do we handle

14:32

this conflict with each other in

14:35

the moment? Yeah.

14:38

So It's also really important

14:41

to understand. One of the things that happens

14:43

in conflict that I alluded to minute

14:45

ago is this fight or flight response

14:48

when we are having an emotional reaction

14:50

to something, when we are getting like triggered

14:53

by something. Right? It

14:55

is a physiological reaction.

14:59

That changes the way we think,

15:01

the way we feel, and the way that we behave.

15:04

Whenever we go into physiological

15:07

stress, right, that fight, flight,

15:09

freeze response is actually

15:11

changing our systems like biologically

15:14

and physiologically. Our heart

15:17

rate increases. Our breathing

15:19

might speed up. You might feel hot. You might

15:21

feel cold. And the other thing

15:23

that happens when any of us

15:25

are ever stressed is that when

15:27

your physiology changes in

15:29

response to stress or anxiety, our

15:33

recognitions also change. We

15:35

start becoming focused on

15:38

threat or potential

15:41

threat. So we are now kind

15:43

of primed to notice

15:45

what's wrong, threats, problems,

15:49

issues, because hopefully,

15:51

our physiological response is trying

15:53

to protect us. Right? And it can

15:55

be protective, to be wary, to

15:58

be on the lookout,

16:00

right, for hostility, or for problems,

16:02

or for threats, on in

16:04

an evolutionary kind of space.

16:06

Right? If you are about to be attacked by

16:08

a mountain lion. It's a good thing to

16:10

be paying attention to possible threats.

16:13

And is is that a shadow or is that a mountain

16:15

lion? That's a good thing. And when it

16:17

comes to relationships that

16:19

just the way we work, it can

16:21

make us more primed to

16:24

experience, our partner, or

16:26

the conflict itself as being

16:28

more threatening, more dangerous,

16:31

than it actually is. And

16:35

this is just really important to know.

16:38

This is what we're also kind of

16:40

talking about is the experience of

16:42

emotional flooding, which

16:44

I have also discussed on on previous

16:47

podcasts. And what

16:49

it tends to do is

16:51

that when we are flooded emotionally,

16:54

when we're experiencing a lot of

16:56

a threat, a lot of emotions. One

16:59

of the ways that we cope with this,

17:01

particularly in the context of

17:03

relationship with someone

17:05

that we care about is

17:08

to shut down and thinking

17:11

about this like,

17:14

rationally, it doesn't make

17:16

sense. Like, we have just been talking

17:18

about how normal and healthy and productive

17:21

conflict can be and how essential it is

17:23

to having a good relationship. And I think,

17:25

you know, we can all hear those words

17:27

and say yes. Okay, conceptually, I

17:29

agree with what you're talking about. Conflict of

17:31

learning how to manage conflict is a healthier relationship

17:34

skill. Sure. And in the

17:36

moment when we are feeling

17:38

those feelings and feeling emotionally

17:41

flooded, that becomes

17:44

much harder to do.

17:47

There is a big difference in

17:50

thinking about things in

17:52

a cool emotional state,

17:54

like maybe you're feeling right now, just listening

17:57

to this podcast or how you would feel

17:59

reading a self help book or even, like, talking

18:01

to a marriage counselor. Right? There is a lot

18:03

of emotional safety that

18:06

a couples counselor or marriage counselor creates

18:08

just by virtue of their presence. So we

18:10

can be talking about these things in a very rational

18:13

way. And still,

18:15

when you experience conflict

18:17

in the moment and you are having

18:20

all of these intense internal experiences.

18:23

It it creates a

18:26

reaction inside of us. It creates

18:28

behaviors that are sometimes

18:31

inconsistent. With who or

18:33

what we think we want to be because

18:35

we're sort of going into survival

18:37

mode. Right? And

18:40

one of the biggest reasons that

18:43

we avoid conflict, I

18:45

think, happens on a very subconscious level

18:48

And I think and

18:50

forgive the the genderization of

18:53

this language, but

18:55

this is, you know, based on my clinical experience

18:57

and I've been doing this for almost twenty years

18:59

and I've also been married for longer

19:02

than that, is that many

19:04

times, the tendency to

19:06

withdraw and avoid conflict

19:08

can be more present in

19:10

men. Than it can be

19:12

in women. And I think that there

19:14

are a couple of reasons for this. In

19:17

a conflict situation, work

19:19

being pushed into this physiological fight,

19:22

flight freeze kind of response. Right?

19:25

And particularly for

19:28

very nice men who

19:30

love their partners very much, who

19:33

value the relationships very

19:35

much, It feels like the internal

19:37

choice is to either withdraw

19:40

AKA flee or fight.

19:44

Right? Maybe that guy is feeling

19:46

flooded, is feeling angry,

19:48

is feeling like, you know, all these different

19:50

things, and and the

19:53

the sort of emotional logic right

19:55

there is if I

19:57

say or act on

19:59

what I'm feeling right now, It

20:02

will be hurtful to my partner. It

20:04

will damage the relationship. It

20:06

will make this situation worse instead

20:09

of better. And I don't

20:11

know what else to do with that,

20:13

so I'm not going to do anything

20:16

at all. I am going to try to

20:18

exit the situation as quickly as

20:20

I can. And in doing

20:22

so, feel like I'm protecting

20:25

my relationship. You know, I would

20:27

rather be kind of

20:30

unhappy on the inside and

20:32

cope with it and stuff this rather

20:35

than create a big scene

20:37

or say something that I'll regret later

20:40

and I'll just

20:42

shove it down further. Right? Again,

20:45

like, in this sort of cool emotional

20:48

state that we're sitting in together right now,

20:50

intellectually, rationally, I think

20:52

we all know that this isn't

20:54

a a great long term strategy. Right?

20:56

Because we're not talking about important things.

20:59

It is creating an experience in

21:02

the partner of this

21:04

person is pulling away for

21:07

me when I want to have important conversations

21:10

about things that feel really important to

21:12

me. I'm feeling kind of emotionally abandoned

21:14

in this moment. I feel like they're saying whatever

21:17

I wanna hear so they can get out of this situation.

21:19

That feels like caring about their own

21:21

comfort more than caring about me.

21:24

Right? So that is often how

21:26

that is received by the partner.

21:28

But For the person who is avoiding

21:30

the conflict to them, it feels

21:32

like the best choice

21:35

they can make in that

21:37

moment. I think that

21:39

this is more prominent in

21:41

men many times because

21:44

I think that compared to women,

21:46

men are generally less socialized

21:49

into how to have calm

21:55

appropriate, productive conflict

21:58

where we talk about feelings, we take turns,

22:01

we validate what the other person is saying.

22:03

I mean, these are very verbal

22:06

relational skills And

22:08

I think to this day, you know,

22:10

unfortunately many men are socialized

22:14

not to be vulnerable, to

22:17

be authentic, you know, to talk about feelings.

22:19

One of them aren't even aware of all the feelings that

22:21

they're having. The only compute

22:23

is I I feel happy I feel

22:25

mad, I feel sad, and that's

22:28

about it. And so if

22:30

men, you know, having less well developed

22:32

emotional intelligence skills sometimes

22:35

they literally do not know what else

22:37

to do in those moments

22:39

except withdraw. And I just wanted

22:41

to say that because a think that if you are

22:43

in a relationship with someone who

22:46

habitually avoids conflict

22:48

and withdraws from it, It can

22:50

be really easy to develop that

22:52

negative mental narrative about what

22:55

that means. They

22:57

don't care about me what I'm feeling

22:59

is not important to them. They won't stay

23:01

in the ring. They just shut me down, you

23:03

know, so they don't want to talk about anything. And

23:05

really missing what is

23:07

the truth in these situations is

23:10

a different narrative, which is my

23:13

partner is feeling really flooded

23:16

they're feeling really overwhelmed by

23:18

this right now, and they do not

23:20

know how to navigate

23:22

this situation. They

23:24

are handling it in the very best way that

23:26

they currently know how to do.

23:29

It is not ideal, but this

23:31

is a learnable skill and they're

23:33

doing this because they're feeling scared.

23:36

Maybe they're feeling incompetent. They're

23:38

worried about making this worse. Right?

23:40

This is this is not a a feeling situation

23:42

for them. So this

23:44

is just a very different narrative and I

23:46

wanted to offer this because

23:49

if you are in a relationship with someone

23:51

who habitually avoids conflict,

23:54

you're really understanding

23:56

what this is about and using

23:59

your own emotional intelligence

24:01

skills in this moment. So we're talking about

24:03

the emotional intelligence skill of empathy,

24:07

right, being able to step into somebody else's

24:09

shoes and see the situation from their

24:11

perspective. Also,

24:14

the emotional intelligence ability

24:17

of being able to sort of see

24:20

into the mind of someone

24:22

else. Right? What

24:24

is this other person needing right

24:26

now? How can I behave?

24:28

How can I communicate in a way

24:31

that would help them feel safer and more comfortable

24:33

with me? As incredibly important,

24:36

because what typically happens

24:39

in this kind of dynamic with somebody

24:41

who really wants to talk about important things,

24:44

with somebody who's like, no, thank you. I'm gonna go

24:46

over here now. Is

24:48

that the person who wants to talk about

24:50

stuff will get more and more

24:52

escalated, more and more

24:54

angry, is having to work

24:56

harder in order to be, like,

24:58

heard in that relationship. The

25:01

volume goes up, you know, maybe they start

25:03

escalating. They start using more intense

25:05

language, which, you know, I mean,

25:07

if we have empathy for them, they're feeling

25:09

unheard, they're feeling uncared for. They're like,

25:11

why won't you listen to me and and trying

25:13

to make their person understand. Right? Which

25:16

is also contributing

25:19

to exactly the outcome

25:21

that they don't want this

25:23

situation is now ten x

25:25

scarier for the conflict of avoidant

25:28

person, all their worst fears

25:30

appear to be coming true about

25:32

what conflict means. They are

25:34

feeling more flooded. They are

25:36

feeling more escalated into fight

25:38

or flight. They have less

25:41

verbal ability in that moment,

25:43

and they feel more like they have to really

25:45

get out of there. So just wanted

25:48

to call into our

25:50

awareness that dynamic that's

25:53

really easy to happen in a

25:55

relationship system. When

25:57

conflict avoidance is in

25:59

play. The more you push

26:02

LHSConflictAvoidanceThirdEd person to talk

26:04

in ways that feel increasingly aggressive,

26:07

the more you are going to get

26:10

increased conflict avoidance

26:13

and shutdown. And vice versa,

26:15

you know, I think in the mind of the conflict

26:17

of waiting person, it is I am going to

26:19

shut this down ASAP so that this

26:22

doesn't get bad and the

26:24

degree to which you are and

26:26

John Gutman calls it stonewalling,

26:29

meaning, like refusing to talk about important

26:32

things, the more it is that you

26:34

are creating a situation

26:37

inside of your partner where they

26:40

will be escalating emotionally

26:43

because they are feeling shut

26:45

out by you and uncared for

26:48

by you. So so there's a lot of, like,

26:50

circularity here. And

26:53

I just wanted to talk

26:55

about this because as we've discussed

26:57

in many past podcasts, I mean, relationships

27:00

are always systems. And it can

27:02

be very tempting to, you know,

27:04

have conversations even like this one about

27:07

you know, here are the ninety seven reasons why it's

27:09

not a good idea to avoid conflict. And

27:12

in doing so, creating a narrative

27:14

about the problem of

27:16

conflict avoidance as oftentimes

27:19

living in one partner. Right? It

27:21

is the conflict avoidance partner

27:23

that has the problem. Which is really

27:25

limiting because without understanding

27:28

the systemic dynamics that

27:30

are in play here,

27:32

it can be very disempowering, right,

27:34

when we don't understand the

27:36

impact that we ourselves are having

27:39

on the people that we are in a relationship with.

27:42

Then it becomes, gosh, I sure

27:44

do wish that person were different as opposed

27:46

to a really healthy growth

27:48

mindset, which is what

27:50

can I do in this situation to

27:52

have a positive impact on

27:55

the results that I'm getting here? So

27:58

I hope that that that just adds a

28:00

a layer of locus

28:02

of control and personal empowerment to

28:05

this this conversation because we are not here

28:07

to demonize any person's position,

28:09

you know, conflict conflict

28:12

happy or conflict avoidance. But

28:14

is understanding the interplay between

28:16

the two. So

28:19

there are, as we've discussed,

28:22

you know, even though this is a

28:24

systemic issue that is the problem of

28:26

two people in a relationship, not just one

28:28

people and that the solutions are very systemic.

28:32

As well. I do think that it

28:34

is helpful just to talk a little

28:36

bit more about why

28:39

this is a problem.

28:42

And I know we addressed it a little bit in the

28:44

beginning of our time together, but

28:46

I think it bears kind

28:48

of further exploration. The

28:53

biggest reason is that why

28:55

it is crucial to develop

28:58

these relational skills for

29:00

any relationship is that

29:02

every relationship has issues

29:05

has differences, etcetera, as we've

29:07

discussed. And these

29:09

issues do not go

29:11

away on their own. In

29:14

fact, they tend to become bigger

29:16

and bigger and bigger. So

29:20

people can tell themselves

29:23

stories about what's happening in their

29:25

relationship, they can play

29:27

sort of little mental games with themselves. know,

29:30

oh, yes. Of course, our relationship is

29:32

happy and healthy. We never

29:35

fight. And, like, when

29:37

I talk to a couple

29:39

or a person who tells me

29:41

that they never fight in

29:43

their relationship. My

29:45

immediate reaction is Oh,

29:48

dear. This is serious. Right?

29:51

Because there is so

29:53

much stuff. That is

29:55

not being addressed, that is not

29:58

being resolved, and the reason that it's

30:00

usually not being resolved is that people

30:02

feel so overwhelmed by it. They don't

30:04

even know how to start, so they're

30:06

they're stuffing it. They are

30:08

stockpiling resentments. They

30:11

are perpetuating

30:14

the problem oftentimes. And

30:17

also, I just wanted to put this out there

30:20

you know, they're missing a lot of

30:22

opportunities to grow

30:24

together, both as a couple,

30:27

but all so as individuals. I

30:29

mean, there is a very important ongoing

30:32

growth process that we all need

30:34

to be engaging in in a very

30:38

deliberate way, if

30:40

we are going to be happy

30:42

and healthy and well in any domain

30:44

of life, be it our career, be it within

30:47

ourselves, be it with our health and

30:49

happiness and wellness, but also certainly

30:51

in our relationships. And

30:54

whenever we are in a conflict

30:56

or a difference with another person, it

30:58

is an incredibly valuable opportunity,

31:01

not just to learn about them. But

31:03

to learn about ourselves to

31:05

think, why do

31:07

I feel this way? Why

31:09

am I wanting wise,

31:12

where does this difference come from? What

31:14

is that? Why am I

31:16

having this reaction? Why

31:19

do I communicate in this way? Right?

31:22

These are opportunities for us to observe

31:25

ourselves and to say to ourselves. Is

31:27

this reaction based on

31:29

old core beliefs? That aren't

31:32

really helpful to me anymore? Are

31:34

these old reactions based

31:36

on old ways of being that maybe made a lot

31:38

of sense in previous chapters of my

31:40

life or in my family of origin,

31:43

but really aren't getting me

31:45

the results that I would like to have in

31:47

my relationship here and now. Right?

31:49

So What do I wanna do differently

31:52

here? Any conflict is just

31:54

such a beautiful opportunity to

31:56

illuminate all of these things that

31:59

you will never even think

32:01

about if you're bopping

32:03

around, you know, left to your own devices.

32:06

Outside of conflict situation. Conflict

32:09

conflict just like adversity. Those

32:11

that's our greatest teacher. Right?

32:14

So there's a huge personal growth

32:16

opportunity. But also for

32:18

the relationship itself, what

32:20

is just true true true

32:22

true is that every relationship grows

32:26

and gets stronger through

32:28

a tear and repair kind

32:30

of process. You know, it's like lifting weights

32:33

or something. Right? Where you are not

32:35

not that I engage in such behaviors, but from what

32:37

I understand, what other people lift

32:39

weights. There is AAA

32:41

process where your muscles are actually

32:44

torn a little bit. Microscopic tears

32:46

but then your body repairs and

32:48

it grows back together again. And

32:51

this analogy works for relationships because

32:53

when you have a conflict, you

32:56

are being hopefully if you're doing it

32:58

well open, authentic, vulnerable,

33:02

real, talking about your real

33:04

feeling, was talking about real problems

33:07

stretching yourself to have empathy

33:10

for somebody else's perspective. Stretching

33:12

yourself to participate in constructive

33:15

problem solving and find compromise

33:18

stretching yourself to maybe even

33:20

consider changing ways of being

33:22

that you may not have known before felt

33:25

problematic for someone else. These

33:27

are all uncomfortable and they're not

33:29

easy to do, and they

33:32

are the engine of growth. You

33:34

know, there's an old saying.

33:36

Right? You you can't change for

33:38

someone else. You can't

33:40

grow for someone else. And

33:44

While I certainly do agree that at the

33:46

end of the day, all growth does

33:48

need to be intrinsically motivated, I

33:51

do disagree with this idea

33:53

that growth

33:55

should be happening outside of a relationship

33:58

system. In my experience,

34:00

both personally and professionally, people

34:04

grow because of their

34:06

relationships. They

34:08

are confronted with growth

34:10

opportunities because of their relationships

34:13

that they would not have had. If

34:15

they were totally, you know, just single

34:17

and weren't partnered

34:19

with somebody for whom it was very important

34:22

that they made certain kinds of changes. They're just

34:24

not challenged in the same kind of way.

34:26

And it it can also be because

34:28

of caring about a partner or caring

34:31

about the health of a relationship or

34:33

the the strength of a family that

34:35

we get the motivation to

34:37

grow and change that maybe

34:40

we wouldn't. You know, feel that it was quite

34:42

as important if it was just us.

34:44

Right? So to honor

34:47

the engine of growth the opportunity

34:49

of growth that relationships afford,

34:52

think is really, really important. Another

34:55

fantastic plastic growth

34:57

opportunity for a relationship is

35:00

the fact that as

35:03

you are addressing issues,

35:06

solving problems, making positive

35:08

changes, understanding your partner

35:11

more deeply because of how

35:13

honest and authentic they're being about

35:15

their needs and their hopes and fears and dreams

35:17

and feelings in the conflict

35:20

process. You will

35:22

ultimately feel more secure

35:25

in your relationship. You will feel

35:28

that it is stronger on almost like

35:30

a visceral level because

35:33

you have had many

35:35

experiences of managing

35:38

conflict in healthy ways, talking

35:41

through problems, creating compromise,

35:43

you'll also know your

35:45

partner on a deeper level. Than

35:47

you would in the absence of conflict,

35:50

and you'll also feel like they know you

35:53

better. In order to

35:55

to successfully resolve conflict, it

35:57

will require both of you to

35:59

move in each other's direction.

36:03

You know, that might not always be the outcome

36:06

of every single conflict. Right? We can

36:08

resolve conflicts without both people

36:10

compromising sometimes. But

36:12

over time, each of you

36:14

will have been bending in each

36:16

other's direction. Sometimes, you

36:18

will have been taking influence from

36:20

the other person. You have been taking

36:23

on board what it is they're saying,

36:25

about what is bothering them. And

36:27

you know what? I see what you're

36:29

saying, and I am gonna work on that.

36:32

And because of having that

36:34

experience with each other over

36:36

time, there is increased security,

36:39

there is increased trust, there

36:41

is increased, like, a

36:43

felt sense of love to

36:45

have witnessed each other

36:48

working on yourselves and

36:50

on the way you do things in

36:52

service of the relationship. That

36:54

that is what builds the

36:57

foundation of a

36:59

relationship. It is

37:01

not feelings of love.

37:04

Feelings of love are what we have

37:06

oftentimes in the first few years that

37:08

we're dating. Right? It's the exciting,

37:10

like, oh, I think you're great. What

37:13

mature love and what is

37:15

and I think what it actually looks like in

37:17

a relationship is

37:19

you saying to somebody that

37:22

really hurt my feelings and

37:24

that other person saying, crap.

37:27

When I look at it from your point of view, I

37:29

can under stand why you would feel that

37:31

way. You know, I think this is coming

37:33

from old stuff. I think my parents used to

37:35

do this, and I understand that this isn't

37:37

helpful in our relationship now. And

37:40

I am going to work on this. I

37:43

know I need to figure out like how

37:45

to do this differently. So this is definitely

37:47

a gross moment for me because right now I don't know

37:49

how to respond differently, but but

37:52

I I wanna work on this together. And so let's,

37:54

you know, talk to somebody or maybe I could read some

37:56

books or at least listen to some podcast because

37:59

you know, you you deserve better than this for

38:01

me. That is

38:03

what love is.

38:06

That is what it looks like. In

38:09

an actual long term

38:12

relationship that is a a brick

38:14

in the wall of the love

38:16

experience. It is not

38:18

a feeling. It is an action.

38:21

It is a response. It is a follow

38:23

through. It is how we show up for

38:25

one another. And so

38:28

when you are having

38:30

this glorious opportunity in

38:33

the form of conflict to

38:36

be loving and responsive

38:39

to your partner in the way that I just described,

38:42

you will quickly understand that

38:44

every difference every

38:48

conflict is this amazing

38:50

opportunity for connection that

38:55

doesn't come in any

38:57

other way. And so, to reconceptualize

39:01

conflict in that way

39:03

is a very, very powerful

39:05

tool that will help you not

39:07

just feel more eager

39:09

to engage in those conversations but

39:12

also to really understand them for what

39:14

they are. This is an opportunity

39:17

for authentic intimacy

39:20

and for us to show each other

39:22

love in a really real

39:25

way right now. This is all this

39:27

is. So I hope

39:29

that that perspective helps

39:31

you, and I I hope keeping that

39:33

in your mind helps you

39:35

the next time that you are in the situation.

39:38

Because you will be in this situation again.

39:41

And so before

39:43

we end, too, I I really wanna talk about

39:45

some of the the nuts and bolts

39:47

of understanding more

39:50

deeply, some of the reasons why

39:52

conflict avoidance happens,

39:55

and also some of the things that

39:57

you can do to develop

40:00

your competence, develop

40:02

your skills and abilities to

40:04

handle these moments in a really

40:07

helpful and productive way. So

40:09

we talked about one of, I think,

40:12

the most common

40:15

and really underlying

40:18

issues of why people avoid

40:20

conflict, which is just that

40:22

emotional flooding. They're fighter

40:25

flight and of the options they

40:27

have, flight feels better

40:29

than flight in terms of the,

40:31

you know, the outcomes of their relationship.

40:34

So if if we crack into this though little

40:36

bit more deeply, if we make it

40:38

nuanced. And also, you know, I

40:40

should I should say too, I I did

40:43

share that many

40:45

times men can struggle

40:48

with or people who were

40:50

socialized as males can

40:52

struggle with with because

40:54

of the having had

40:57

less of an opportunity to develop emotional

40:59

intelligence skills from

41:02

childhood than their their female

41:04

socialized counterparts. But

41:07

conflict avoidance is also very

41:09

common in females And unfortunately, I

41:12

tend to be on the side of

41:14

the spectrum as well, even

41:17

though I was socialized as

41:19

a female. Did so in a

41:22

home with people who were themselves

41:24

not fantastic with God's

41:26

selected. So I too arrived

41:28

into adulthood without having a

41:30

great map of, like, oh, what do I

41:32

do with this? And so think that what

41:34

I sort of developed over my life

41:37

is a tendency to try to

41:39

pacify, smooth things over, make

41:41

things better, problem solve, which is

41:43

also not the same thing as

41:46

as healthy conflict, you

41:48

know, resolution skills.

41:51

I don't think I avoid conflict.

41:54

Like, I will have conversations with people about whatever

41:56

wanna talk about. And I I am not an, like,

41:59

an attacker when it is coming to

42:01

conflict. But but I have noticed

42:03

in myself an eagerness to

42:05

solve whatever problem it is. I'm like, okay.

42:08

I'll just agree to, yes. Okay. Let's do that.

42:10

In order to get get through it more quickly

42:12

in a way that is not conducive

42:15

to the health of my own relationships. And

42:17

and I say, you know, I've done a lot of work on this.

42:19

So as as in where I am now,

42:22

I I have a lot more skills and abilities. But but

42:24

historically, this kind of was my MO.

42:26

And you

42:28

know, this this style too has negative outcomes

42:30

for relationships because what

42:32

would happen is that the other person would

42:35

be like, Okay. Good. Thank

42:37

you. Right. And

42:39

in myself, you know, I was agreeing

42:42

to things that I wasn't fully on board with.

42:44

I was not having

42:46

courageous conversations about things that

42:48

were important to me, to my own

42:50

detriment. Right? And

42:52

that would impact the health of my relationship.

42:55

And also, I think, the

42:58

strength of some of my relationships is

43:01

addressing a conflict openly and having

43:04

to get radically honest with someone just

43:06

felt too hard for me. Would it

43:08

be easier to be like, yeah, I don't know if

43:10

I wanna be friends with them any anymore. Right?

43:12

So I think sometimes I would I would

43:15

exit relationships. And again,

43:17

this is when I was much much younger. I have evolved

43:19

since then thankfully, but you know,

43:21

that can be an outcome of this too.

43:23

And on this topic,

43:26

if you would like to learn more about this

43:28

sort of way of being and where

43:31

it comes from and what to do with it, I

43:33

would refer you back to another podcast

43:35

I recorded on the subject of

43:38

people pleasing. You can

43:40

find that back in the podcast feed

43:42

for your listening pleasure. Okay. So,

43:45

but what what often goes on in

43:47

in that people pleasing kind of conflict

43:49

avoidance is really, I think,

43:51

rooted in kind of low

43:53

self esteem, you know, this core

43:56

belief of if I

43:58

am radically honest

44:01

and say what I really think and feel,

44:03

I am going to be rejected.

44:06

I will be judged. I will be abandoned

44:08

by this person. Right? I

44:10

will potentially lose this relationship. This

44:12

person will get mad at me. Right?

44:15

And so, you know, avoiding or

44:18

pacifying the conflict in those

44:20

moments relieved that anxiety.

44:23

Right? The anxiety, of course,

44:25

that's the dark side and now tolerating

44:27

things that I don't really like. But

44:29

that is the price that I have to pay to maintain

44:32

this relationship with this person that I

44:34

care about because to

44:36

do anything else feels really scary.

44:39

You know, the thought that they could be mad at me

44:41

is not something that I'm willing

44:43

to bargain with. Right?

44:46

So that can be one reason. And

44:48

if you notice this in yourself, in your

44:51

own kind of avoidance tendencies,

44:53

or if you fact that this

44:55

is the root of what is going on with

44:57

your partner. The solution here

45:00

is is really just a a different narrative.

45:03

I have

45:05

not just a right, but a responsibility

45:08

to be authentic in relationships

45:11

that I care about. Me

45:13

hiding my feelings does

45:15

not serve anyone. It

45:17

is detrimental to me. It is detrimental

45:20

to this relationship. And

45:22

it is okay for

45:24

people to have their own

45:26

feelings. I there

45:28

are limits to how how much I

45:30

can control somebody else's feeling.

45:32

If their reaction to me

45:35

being a appropriately, courageously,

45:39

lovingly, vulnerable, authentic

45:42

is to get mad at me

45:44

or reject me, that has

45:46

just taught me something really important

45:49

about that relationship. Right?

45:52

So is not about me.

45:54

I can only control my side of the street

45:57

and being a good friend, a good partner

45:59

right now means showing up in

46:01

a courageous way. So that's

46:03

a different narrative than,

46:05

oh, they're gonna get mad at me, and that means bad things.

46:08

If you are suspecting that this

46:10

is the MO of your partner, it

46:13

is really important to

46:15

say that out loud. I

46:17

know that it

46:19

feels threatening to talk

46:22

about how you really feel. I'm

46:24

guessing you might be worried that if you

46:26

tell me how you really feel I will

46:28

get mad at you or I will punish

46:30

you or something bad will happen,

46:33

but I want you to know that

46:35

I love you and more than anything

46:38

I want to understand your

46:40

perspective so that we can figure

46:42

out a path forward together. And if you

46:45

don't tell me what's really going on inside

46:47

of you, we can't do that together. So

46:49

please trust me to be an

46:51

emotionally safe person for you

46:54

and tell me how you feel. And then

46:56

of course, follow through. Just

46:58

saying this as your hopeful neighborhood

47:01

marriage counselor. I often see

47:04

people in this a relational dynamic where

47:06

one person is conflict avoidance and they're

47:08

really worried that if they tell their partner

47:10

how they really feel something bad will

47:12

happen, their partner will get angry, their

47:14

partner will punish them and their partners

47:16

like just tell me how you feel. really wanna

47:18

know how you feel and then they tell them how they feel

47:20

and their partners like damn it. How dare

47:23

you? And they get really bad

47:25

at them and they punish them. So

47:27

if you want your partner

47:29

to be less conflict ofident, it

47:31

is really, really important

47:34

that you are committed to

47:36

being an emotionally safe person.

47:39

For them to do that with. Okay?

47:42

So just going back to that relational

47:44

dynamic, sad to say that.

47:47

Another common reason

47:49

for conflict avoidance is lack

47:52

of confidence in our own

47:54

conflict resolution skills

47:57

which is super real and

47:59

valid. Right? I mean, I've

48:01

talked significantly over the course of

48:03

our time together today about how I would

48:05

say most of us do not

48:07

have good role models for

48:10

how to manage conflict in healthy

48:12

and appropriate ways. Again,

48:14

maybe our parents avoided all

48:16

conflict. Maybe they were

48:18

super scary screamers who

48:20

were saying terrible things to each other.

48:23

You know, maybe. Your parents

48:25

got divorced, which is also

48:27

extremely common. And

48:29

at the end of the day, you know, the kids

48:31

are gonna be alright. But one

48:33

of the emotional legacies, I

48:35

think of children, of divorce,

48:38

is if something

48:40

goes wrong, we are going

48:42

to get divorced. And so

48:45

conflict is therefore bad relationship

48:48

problems or bad. If we have relationship problems,

48:50

that means that I might lose my person, you know, just

48:52

contribute all of this anxiety. And

48:54

furthermore, if you are the

48:57

child of divorced parents, it

48:59

sort of means, like, by definition, that

49:02

you grew up in household with two

49:04

people who did not know how to resolve their

49:06

conflicts with each other because if they did, they probably

49:08

wouldn't have gotten divorced. Right? So

49:11

in all of these situations, what

49:13

it means is there's a

49:15

lot to learn here. So

49:19

first of all, basic emotional

49:22

intelligence skills that are that are

49:24

often a lot of what is happening

49:26

in high quality relationship coaching

49:29

with a marriage and family therapist

49:31

who has specialized training and experience

49:33

in counseling psychology in

49:36

couples and family therapy. Our

49:38

actions follow what we're telling

49:40

ourselves about a certain situation. That

49:42

is why we behave the way we do, so we

49:44

can certainly go into that a little bit more deeply.

49:47

But at the end of the day, if

49:49

you would like to have a result

49:51

in your relationship, particularly when

49:53

it comes to things like communication skills.

49:56

We don't need to be sniffing around

49:58

for early childhood problem necessarily.

50:00

We need to be talking about communication

50:03

skills and and really like learning

50:06

how to do things differently.

50:08

Which is the most in in my opinion,

50:11

the most direct way of creating

50:13

positive change in a

50:15

relationship. In

50:17

the absence of underlying mental health

50:19

stuff. Right? So in

50:22

working with a competent relationship coach,

50:25

that might start with basic emotional

50:27

intelligence skills like developing

50:30

awareness of how you

50:33

feel in the moment, many

50:36

people react to

50:38

each other kind of match to

50:40

flame. Right? They don't even know that they're

50:42

having a feeling. They just like say something,

50:44

but to slow down, how am I feeling

50:47

right now? What do

50:49

I do with that feeling? How do I manage

50:52

my own feelings? So that I am

50:54

able to behave in

50:56

a way that would like to behave that will get me

50:58

better results in my relationship. What

51:01

do I want to be telling myself

51:03

in these moments that will help me

51:05

behave in the ways that will help me have a

51:08

better relationship? And this goes

51:10

into self management,

51:13

also building those empathy skills

51:15

that we talked about earlier, not

51:17

everybody can understand easily

51:20

or intuitively how someone else

51:22

feels or what is that they're needing

51:24

or the subtext of conversations. But

51:26

these are learnable skills. Right? And

51:30

then once you have those things in place,

51:32

to be able to know

51:35

how to engage in emotionally

51:38

safe communication in

51:41

listening skills. So, okay,

51:43

your partner is kinda coming at you right now

51:45

and they're saying things about how up that they are.

51:47

Now you're noticing how you're feeling. You're noticing how

51:49

you're thinking. And what

51:51

do you do in this moment?

51:53

Right? Very tiny example

51:56

and there's a hundred different skills

51:58

like this, but to say

52:01

thank you so much. For telling me how

52:03

you felt, I wasn't aware of this. Let's

52:06

go sit down. I'm gonna get something

52:08

to write on so that I can take notes.

52:10

Clearly, what you're saying is very important. And

52:13

I I wanna make sure that I'm understanding this,

52:15

so please tell me more. Like,

52:18

that is a really important relationship

52:22

skill. And if you even did that

52:24

one small thing,

52:26

if your partner is elevated and

52:29

escalated, it will be like, oh,

52:32

Great. Yes. Let's go sit down. I would love

52:34

to tell you more about how I feel like, thank you so

52:36

much for asking. You know, I mean, like,

52:38

you're not having a like anywhere. You

52:41

are having a conversation and one

52:43

that is likely to go very, very

52:46

well if you keep that up. Right?

52:48

So, I mean, There are many

52:51

relationship skills like this. Also,

52:54

how to set healthy boundaries can

52:56

be parts of learning how to communicate

52:58

and handle conflict courageously, learning

53:00

what your boundaries are, what are

53:02

other people's boundaries, you know, being

53:06

able to manage yourself versus being

53:08

able to try to manage somebody else, communicating

53:12

in such a way where people know

53:14

that they are heard and understood

53:17

and validated. You may

53:20

check out another previous podcast that I

53:22

I did on what to

53:24

do if you're feeling invalidated by

53:26

your partner for kind of a tutorial on

53:29

some of those validation skills. But

53:31

also, it can be really helpful to

53:33

understand how to do relationship

53:37

repair after the fact, you know,

53:39

what that looks like. If there

53:41

have been relational traumas

53:43

or attachment traumas that have been sustained,

53:46

you know, how do we actually

53:49

forgive, rebuild trust.

53:52

Right? We we don't forget, but

53:55

what do we do with this in a constructive way

53:57

that we come out other side stronger.

54:00

But let's like, what do I need to be

54:02

telling myself about that? What do I need to

54:04

be telling my partner? What does my partner need

54:06

to be telling me in order to create outcome

54:09

that we both want. So those

54:11

are all very concrete

54:13

and learnable conflict resolution

54:16

skills. That are learned.

54:19

And I think that adults in

54:21

long term relationships, we all have a

54:23

responsibility to be learning and

54:25

very active and intentional ways

54:28

if we would like to have a

54:30

good relationship with the people that

54:32

we love the most. Right? So

54:35

other quick reasons that

54:37

conflict avoidance can happen

54:40

is if you

54:42

don't trust your partner. If

54:45

you have had many experiences with

54:48

them where conflict became

54:51

destructive, where conflict

54:54

had negative outcomes rather than positive

54:56

outcomes, like if it turned into a big, you

54:58

know, screaming situation, if there were destructive

55:00

things that happened between the two of you,

55:03

if there is a pattern of invalidation. If

55:06

there is a pattern of like name calling

55:08

or belittling or punishing

55:10

behaviors or even gaslighting, those

55:13

are actually really good reasons. To

55:15

avoid conflict with someone

55:18

if they have taught you that it

55:20

is not going to end well

55:22

it is probably emotionally safer

55:25

for you to not try to engage that

55:27

person in very direct way.

55:30

What I would advise is that

55:32

you get some very real help for

55:34

your relationship. So working with

55:37

marriage and family therapist, a licensed

55:39

marriage and family therapist, ideally

55:42

somebody who can utilize a coaching

55:44

model if that is appropriate in this situation.

55:47

And take it into an

55:50

environment with somebody who

55:52

can be an ally for you.

55:55

And be able to collaboratively

55:57

work with both of you to

56:00

help illuminate what is happening

56:02

in those moments in terms those systemic

56:05

reactions that you're having to each other

56:07

and do some very serious psychoeducation around

56:11

why some of these behaviors are really

56:14

destructive to the relationship and

56:16

what each of you can do differently in order

56:18

to get better results. And

56:20

give your partner the opportunity to

56:22

work on this with you in

56:24

an intentional and hopefully

56:27

productive way. If

56:29

your partner currently cannot tolerate

56:32

or engage with conflict in a way that

56:34

doesn't become destructive, that

56:36

would be a good indication to me.

56:39

That there's a lot of stuff historically where

56:41

those kinds of behaviors were modeled to

56:43

them. Like, maybe they don't know how else to be.

56:46

Maybe they really struggle with emotional regulation,

56:48

maybe they feel super threatened, like maybe

56:50

there could be an anxious attachment style,

56:53

you know, can contribute to that sometimes. And,

56:57

you know, if if this is somebody that you love

56:59

and care about,

57:02

and the relationship is important to you,

57:04

it's worth getting help

57:07

if you can, if they are open to it,

57:09

if they, you know, refuse to participate it

57:12

in it or can't. Engage in

57:14

that kind of growth work even in

57:16

the context of, like, a really emotionally safe

57:19

situation with a competent couples

57:21

counselor. Then

57:23

you will have more information about

57:26

your options. Right? And

57:28

and what you wanna do with that. But I think

57:30

it's usually a mistake at least to not

57:32

try. Unless, of course, you know, we're

57:35

talking about like a domestic violence

57:37

kind of situation, in which case my

57:39

advice to you would be to get some help on your

57:41

own. And not try to turn it into a

57:43

couple's counseling situation because it's not safe

57:45

for you to do that. So I

57:47

think that we have talked about

57:49

the highlights. know, this is such a

57:51

big, big topic. I could

57:54

I could do multi hour

57:56

podcasts on this subject and I'm

57:58

not gonna subject you to any of that. But

58:01

you know, I think that the big takeaways here

58:03

are understanding why

58:07

happens. Understanding the

58:09

systemic nature of

58:12

conflict avoidance, like what kinds

58:14

of behaviors people engage in on both

58:16

sides. Of that dynamic that

58:19

support conflict avoidance.

58:22

Also, we talked a lot about the

58:24

negative impact of conflict

58:26

avoidance and so why it's so important

58:28

that we make positive changes in

58:30

this area. And then lastly, you

58:32

know, some of the ways to begin to

58:35

correct this through truly,

58:37

like educating yourself

58:40

on how to do this differently

58:42

and become authentic, courageous,

58:46

vulnerable, emotionally safe,

58:48

partners for each other and giving

58:51

each other the opportunity to

58:54

develop conflict resolution skills

58:57

in the process. That you will

58:59

be strengthening your relationship. You

59:01

will be showing each other. The eleventh

59:04

respect that you both deserve, not

59:06

in fight of your conflict, but

59:09

because of it. So I

59:12

hope that you found this conversation today

59:14

helpful. I I certainly had a good time

59:16

talking about it with you. If you would like

59:19

more info on this or or

59:21

many other topics, you are invited

59:23

to come to the blog at my practice

59:26

growing self dot com. You know,

59:28

I referenced a number of other podcast

59:30

titles as we were talking, and

59:32

you can find links to all of them on

59:34

their blog. In the

59:37

what are we calling it? The communication that

59:39

connects content collection.

59:42

So you'll go to growing self dot com forward

59:44

slash blog hyphen podcast.

59:47

From there, you'll be able to enter

59:49

the love collection

59:53

And in there, you

59:55

can then select I believe

59:57

it is called the communication that connects

59:59

collection be called the healthy communication

1:00:02

collection. Anyway, but if you go

1:00:04

in there, then you will have access to

1:00:06

all the podcast I was talking about today,

1:00:09

Also, a bunch of written articles

1:00:11

that I have written or other people on our

1:00:13

team have have written with

1:00:16

great advice for developing communication

1:00:18

skills, listening skills,

1:00:21

emotionally safe communication, emotional

1:00:24

flooding, conflict

1:00:26

resolution. We have podcasts

1:00:29

about how to talk about difficult

1:00:32

conversations. And in that

1:00:34

collection too, I have actually put together

1:00:36

a Spotify playlist just

1:00:38

for you on healthy communication and

1:00:41

communication that connects. So you're

1:00:43

invited to check that out. You

1:00:46

know where to find it. And please

1:00:48

stay in touch with me if

1:00:50

you have additional questions

1:00:53

or topics that you would like to hear

1:00:55

me talk about that would be helpful for you

1:00:57

on upcoming episodes, on that

1:01:00

same, you know, blog and podcast homepage.

1:01:02

You can submit your question through

1:01:04

a little form, but you can also leave

1:01:06

me a voice message. If you would

1:01:08

like me to play your question on the air,

1:01:10

and I would be happy to.

1:01:13

And in the meantime, don't forget to

1:01:15

show people the very best parts

1:01:18

of yourself more from Lauren's

1:01:20

Guy. Alright, guys. See you later.