0:00

Luke Combs here and I have an exclusive opportunity

0:03

for you to win a half million dollars with a

0:05

living lucky with Luke Combs lottery

0:07

experience. Doing me in Nashville

0:09

for a private concert in twenty twenty four.

0:11

From

0:11

the Virginia Lottery, learn more at v a lottery

0:14

dot com slash live and lucky.

0:16

A BBC World Service and CBC Podcast

0:18

Production. Before we start, please

0:20

note this series contains adult themes

0:23

and strong language.

0:33

So, yeah, my name is Hannah. I'm

0:35

a journalist, and I guess I wanted to ask

0:39

obvious question in regards to what I'm

0:41

working on, do you know Janessa

0:43

Brazil? The

0:45

answer from the woman on the other end of

0:47

the line is no. Right.

0:50

Okay. I mean, the reason why we ask

0:52

is that I'm actually working on a podcast

0:55

about catfishing That's

0:57

me calling a neighbor of Janessa Brazil's

0:59

in a city in Florida. My

1:02

producer found Janessa's address on an

1:04

old voter registration role. I've

1:07

made a lot of calls like this, cold

1:09

calls that went nowhere.

1:11

There's loads and loads of images around her

1:14

everywhere. So you've you've never

1:16

met Janessa before. We

1:19

traced old addresses, phone

1:21

numbers. We

1:25

did not receive the complete I

1:34

subscribed to pornhub to find him.

1:37

I messaged a guy on Facebook multiple

1:39

times who seemed to be Janessa ex

1:41

husband. I called a store in

1:43

Rio de Janeiro where I was told her

1:45

father might have worked. Hi.

1:49

What's the pari glace? No.

1:53

Okay.

1:55

I think she's finding out if someone speaks English.

1:57

I can speak to him. I

2:04

wanted someone to tell me why Janessa seemed

2:06

to go dark around twenty sixteen. Before

2:09

that, she had left a vibrant digital

2:12

footprint In twenty eleven,

2:14

she was photographed flanked by several

2:16

tank top wearing adult entertainment stars

2:19

at the launch of a new tequila brand.

2:22

In twenty thirteen, she promoted swimwear

2:24

for a label specializing in Brazilian

2:26

chihihi bikinis. But

2:29

fresh posts seemed

2:31

to drop off a few years later.

2:33

Her feeds, her video stream

2:36

channels, or her to become dusty,

2:38

untendered places. Her

2:40

social media felt like an abandoned

2:43

amusement

2:44

park, but then my

2:47

producers sent me a link

2:48

Janessa, Vanessa.

2:50

Hi, Nicole. Hi, Vanessa. And

2:52

suddenly, she seemed very much

2:55

alive. From

3:04

CBC Podcasts, and the BBC

3:06

World Service. My name is Hannah

3:09

Jala, and this is

3:11

Love Janessa. The

3:16

story of my wild quest

3:19

to find a woman whose face somebody

3:21

is the bait used in catfishing

3:24

schemes around the world.

3:32

Episode four, Helen of

3:34

Troy.

3:43

Hello? Is this Nicole?

3:45

Yes. It is.

3:47

This is a clip from an episode of a radio

3:49

from twenty nineteen.

3:51

Hi. This is Baba. We're live. Oh,

3:53

wow. You emailed me and told me to call

3:55

you. The hostess of the shock

3:58

drug variety. He calls

4:00

himself Bubba the Love sponge.

4:06

Boba used to host a show produced by Howard

4:08

Stern, the popular American radio

4:10

and TV personality. Barbara's

4:13

style feels very sternness, loud,

4:17

cheerfully abrasive, filled

4:19

with sex

4:20

talk. He

4:21

films all of these broadcasts. At

4:24

one point in today's episode, The

4:26

camera zooms in on a baby

4:28

goat that's walking around, getting

4:30

laughs for rubbing on people's legs.

4:33

So it's not your average recording studio.

4:36

Bubba is a big guy with

4:38

a big microphone. Wearing

4:41

a fatality t shirt and headphones. And

4:44

some days, he has a

4:46

sidekick. And

4:47

I have the person you know, Janessa

4:50

is part of my show. She's a co host. Janessa

4:52

say hi, Nicole.

4:52

Hi, Janessa.

4:55

No. No. No. Cold that's the Janessa.

4:58

And I think, you know I mean, like

4:59

I know. Shit. And and It

5:02

does look like Janessa Brazil. She

5:05

sits in front of a microphone wearing

5:07

a white jean jacket elegantly made

5:09

up. Her brows are thin

5:11

and arched high. A questioning

5:14

look.

5:14

Yeah, Nicole. No. Where

5:17

do you live, Nicole? Like, just

5:18

I'm in Montreal. You're in

5:20

Montreal. Okay. And, you know, we're a

5:22

radio show that's based on Tampa,

5:24

Florida.

5:25

Of course, I know you about Nicole got in

5:27

touch because after twenty five

5:29

years, and marriages on the rocks.

5:32

Her husband has become obsessed

5:34

with a woman he met online.

5:37

I don't know how he found this person,

5:40

but it was all of Janessa

5:44

and this person was posing.

5:46

Her name was Natasha Bella, a

5:48

nurse. And he

5:51

fell 4, of course, because of all the, you know,

5:53

the beautiful exceed photos

5:55

of Janessa. You sound like pretty hot

5:57

commodity. Why would your husband

5:59

be going over some Internet bitch for you?

6:01

He's never been Well, So he stumbled

6:03

upon some chick that's portraying herself

6:05

as Janessa using Janessa's

6:07

phone.

6:07

Oh, it's probably a

6:08

dude

6:08

too,

6:09

a lot of

6:09

But I think it's a guy. Yeah.

6:11

Now is he asking for money?

6:13

For over a year, Nicole's husband

6:15

has been sending this woman money. Whoa.

6:18

How how much

6:19

I think he sent her close to five thousand.

6:21

Oh my gosh. And

6:22

it's probably a lot more than that. Yeah.

6:24

Yeah. That's

6:24

probably what you that's probably what you know.

6:27

Yeah. Because she was claiming to be sick

6:29

and, you know, and helping her grandmother

6:31

in the heart.

6:33

So I sat down and said, listen, I

6:35

go I'm gonna do everything I can

6:37

to track down because I knew your name Janessa

6:40

Mhmm. -- to track her down, to

6:42

prove to you that the person you're speaking

6:45

with is not even only like you said a

6:46

woman. No. It's probably a man. He's probably he's

6:49

a man. He has some

6:50

guy some guy from Ghana or

6:52

something like that.

6:57

Part of their cohosting schtick

7:00

is that Janessa bubba are platonic

7:02

roommates. They post their roomy

7:04

shenanigans online. You

7:06

can see videos of Janessa working out.

7:09

Sometimes she merged the lawn in front of

7:11

their house in a bikini, Bama

7:14

makes onechy but affectionate jokes.

7:17

They laugh a lot. They genuinely

7:19

seem like friends. And

7:21

on this episode, Baba

7:23

jokes that Janessa should get in league

7:25

with the scammers and spread

7:27

the wealth.

7:29

This is like

7:29

I'm gonna start doing this for real gonna speak,

7:31

Janessa, make phone calls from six until seven

7:34

at the house every day to pay

7:35

for them at the rent and be like, hey, listen, honey.

7:38

You know, you gotta the phones

7:39

over here. Imagine

7:39

if I got all the money that these people send out

7:41

to these people can ask us, I'd be

7:44

I'd be a million.

7:46

This moment kind of blew my

7:48

mind. It meant Janessa was

7:51

aware that her image was being used

7:53

by scammers all around the world.

7:56

That she knows they're getting rich

7:58

off of this entity. This

8:00

floating digital being called Brazil.

8:03

But the flesh and blood Janessa? According

8:07

to her, she's not getting rich at

8:09

all. And there doesn't seem

8:11

to be anything she can do to stop it.

8:15

So at this point, you probably have the same

8:17

question I do. Why doesn't anyone

8:19

do anything about this? Calling

8:22

a radio show to vent about your husband

8:24

being scammed doesn't feel like the

8:26

pursuit of justice. It's

8:29

a common thread in many of these stories.

8:32

Very few people who have been scammed

8:34

tried to get their money back. The

8:36

ones who do are really successful.

8:40

So I want to know, what

8:42

legal recourse is there for someone who

8:44

believes they've been

8:45

targeted? And deferred it.

8:53

On Mother's Day in nineteen eighty five, Philadelphia

8:56

did something unthinkable. The city

8:58

had been engaged in a standoff with a radical

9:00

organization called Move. The helicopter

9:03

takes off. Then the city dropped

9:05

a bomb on moves headquarters, killing

9:07

eleven

9:08

people, five of them children.

9:10

I told to a takes away by the government.

9:13

Why is it? So many have never heard of

9:15

them before. Black people will never

9:17

give just this in America. The Africa's

9:20

versus

9:20

America, available now, everywhere

9:22

you get your podcasts.

9:25

Luke Combs here and I have an exclusive opportunity

9:28

for you to win a half million dollars with the

9:30

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9:32

experience. Joining me in Nashville for

9:34

a private concert in twenty twenty four.

9:36

From

9:36

the Virginia lottery, learn more at v a lottery

9:39

dot com slash live in lucky. I

9:43

have these two feral cats that live in my

9:46

backyard that I feed. Garfield and

9:48

potato and they wait for me in the morning

9:50

by the back door to feed

9:51

them. They're eating so much. I had to go to get,

9:53

like, the monster sized bag. I

9:55

have a lounge chair out there, either out there. This

9:57

is John Amit. I can hear him

9:59

talking to my producer while I'm getting my tech

10:02

set up. Hi, John. So

10:04

sorry. Technology. How

10:06

are you? I'm wonderful. And

10:08

you're in

10:09

Lagos. I've always wanted to go there. John's

10:11

based in Ottawa, a feral

10:13

cat lover and world traveler. He

10:16

has a soft, nice guy energy,

10:18

but his job is intense.

10:20

John is an investigator for the Canadian

10:22

anti fraud center.

10:24

We are the central repository for

10:26

data, for intelligence and

10:29

resource materials that relate to fraud.

10:31

We at the Army Fraud Center, we do not

10:33

conduct investigations, but rather

10:35

we provide valuable assistance to our

10:37

law enforcement partners. And we work

10:39

really closely with Europe whole and intraple

10:42

as well. So by sharing our information

10:44

worldwide, we can actually make some traction on

10:46

this.

10:49

Around the world, the food business

10:51

is booming. COVID

10:53

helped A lot of people

10:55

were stuck at home in front of their computers

10:58

looking for a little companionship. According

11:01

to UK Finance, of Financial Services

11:03

Trade Association. Bank transfer

11:06

4 linked to Roman scams was

11:08

up. Twenty percent in

11:10

twenty twenty from the year before in

11:12

the UK. And in the

11:15

United States, reports of

11:17

romance scams hit a record high

11:19

in twenty twenty one, according

11:21

to the Federal Trade Commission. Victims

11:23

lost almost twice the amount of money

11:25

than the year

11:26

before. Five hundred and forty

11:28

seven million dollars. And

11:32

the other aspect of it is romance

11:35

fraud are the lowest ported

11:37

frauds versus the highest amount

11:40

of lost as per victim, which is staggering.

11:43

I've seen on average a hundred and fifty thousand dollars

11:45

in losses per victim, which is just

11:47

devastating. And lot of people seem to

11:50

think like these fraudsters are just maybe these

11:52

overweight people on their grandparents spacing,

11:54

committing these scams. But really, it's

11:56

the massive organized crime group that

11:58

are making tons of money,

12:00

whether it be organized crime or countries

12:03

and corruption receiving the funds to

12:05

maybe look the other way.

12:07

Did any of your work, Nicole?

12:09

How Ghana has become quite

12:12

essential for romance stems.

12:14

Some of the investigations have, in fact, led

12:16

to Ghana. And I don't wanna make it seem

12:18

like Africa is the main hub around the world.

12:21

Like 4 instance, Jamaica, they have the prize

12:23

and lottery scams that they've involved in. And

12:25

we have our fair share of fraudsters in Canada.

12:28

And there's a lot of organized crime groups within

12:30

Canada that are are not only

12:32

targeting

12:32

Canadians, but also victims around the world

12:34

as well. I asked John

12:36

to walk me through a typical story, a

12:39

real world example of what happens when

12:41

victims turn to the legal system for

12:43

help. There is one particular case

12:46

in Canada here where the

12:48

victim was hit up by these scammers

12:50

on a large social media 4. They

12:53

started a dialogue. She was a widow.

12:55

She was looking for companionship. And

12:57

this fraudster filled that

12:59

void. So in this particular case,

13:02

the person she thought was her new romantic

13:04

interest was reporting to

13:06

be a US soldier who

13:09

is in Afghanistan

13:10

when the Afghanistan conflict was Scammers

13:13

love to use images of military

13:15

personnel as bait. Makes

13:17

sense. An officer has a

13:19

built in excuse to not reveal too

13:21

much detail about their whereabouts or

13:24

background. They can vanish

13:26

for chunks of time and explain

13:28

it away as a top secret

13:30

mission, and who doesn't

13:32

love a man in uniform. And

13:34

so as the relationship evolves, he

13:37

would make up excuses of why he

13:39

couldn't come to Canada. And over

13:42

the course of their time together, which was only a few

13:44

months, she provided a hundred fifty thousand

13:46

dollars in various methods, whether it be gift

13:48

cards, wire transfers, sending

13:51

cash in the mail. So the

13:53

victim finally had had enough and had friends'

13:55

commensurate to go to the police. So

13:58

our investigation began, and

14:00

we ended up identifying that there was a money

14:02

mule in Canada that was the intermediary

14:05

between sending the mite to Nigeria.

14:07

A money mule is someone who transfers

14:10

illegal money from one person to another,

14:12

helping to launder it.

14:14

These webs are huge, intricate.

14:17

Many different criminals are involved in a

14:20

single scam. Each taken

14:22

slices of the same pie. Sometimes

14:25

the meal is working in tandem with the scammers.

14:28

But sometimes they're also being scammed.

14:31

The mule may not even know they're a mule.

14:34

They think they're just receiving a nice cash

14:36

present from a new love interest they

14:38

met online. The

14:44

woman wears closely with police on

14:46

a sting. The

14:50

money mule, the man who allegedly

14:53

had been the intermediary, between

14:55

the woman and her beloved fake military

14:57

boyfriend

14:59

agreed to come by her house. And

15:01

we end up arresting the individual as

15:04

he was trying to get an extra sixty thousand dollars

15:06

from the victim.

15:08

When he showed up, officers quickly

15:10

intercepted John says

15:12

he didn't resist arrest.

15:15

So as a result, we were able to

15:17

seize some devices and technology from

15:20

the individual group search warrants, and

15:22

we're able to access that data. And

15:24

the data was really surprising even

15:26

for me to see of how many

15:28

frauds this suspect was

15:30

involved with. And it turns out that

15:32

this individual and his brother had immigrated to

15:34

Canada, and they were not only targeting

15:36

Canadians, but there are targeting Americans

15:39

as well. This person was involved with

15:41

identity thefts, actually stealing people's

15:43

wallets at

15:44

malls. Involved in the SIM

15:47

card swap. So he had individuals

15:49

that work compromised, working for financial institutions,

15:52

telecommunication companies, So

15:54

the far reach of this one individual was

15:56

was quite incredible.

16:05

But even with all that evidence, the

16:08

matter is still before the courts.

16:10

It's been three years since charges

16:12

were

16:13

made. The other challenges is

16:15

the court process. We know a lot of our

16:17

prosecutors don't have a lot of experience

16:19

inside or fraud or fraud investigations. And

16:22

as we know with the court systems around the world

16:24

that it can

16:24

take

16:25

two to three years before these matters get before

16:27

a jury or a trial.

16:29

Every once in a while, a case

16:31

does get legal traction. The

16:33

US Federal Bureau of Investigation says

16:36

it has busted Agana based criminal

16:39

enterprise for the arrest of six

16:41

of its ring leaders in

16:43

the US on charges of launching more

16:45

than fifteen million

16:46

dollars. This clip

16:48

is from a Ghanian TV station called

16:50

Joy News. According to the FBI,

16:52

these comes include Roman's comes,

16:55

targeting the elderly business

16:57

email compromised comes and even

16:59

fraudulent COVID

17:00

nineteen, relief loans. FBI,

17:03

William. So six men are part of a

17:05

group, the FBI labeled the enterprise.

17:08

Criminals whose elaborate schemes

17:11

zigzags across the US and Africa

17:13

in the twenty tens. They

17:18

snagged victims using dating sites

17:20

and text messaging, laundering

17:22

money through dozens of American

17:24

bank accounts. After

17:27

years of investigation, a woman

17:29

named Deborah Menza was extradited to

17:31

the US from Ghana in twenty twenty.

17:34

And convicted as one of the enterprises

17:37

co conspirators. She was

17:39

ordered to pay over one point five

17:41

million dollars in restitution. We've

17:45

not been able to confirm whether the money has

17:47

been collected or distributed to the victims

17:49

yet. We do know that

17:51

mental was sentenced to nearly six years

17:54

in a New York prison where she sits today.

17:58

An outcome like this is extremely rare.

18:02

Tech Canadian woman who thought she was in

18:04

love with a military man, the

18:06

thousands of dollars she allegedly lost

18:08

were likely laundered far from Canada

18:11

as soon as the money left her account. Even

18:14

if her case goes before judge one day,

18:16

she'll likely never see a penny.

18:19

Like we tell people the criminal court system

18:21

is not set up to try and get your money back.

18:24

Right? Like if there's assets that we can

18:26

seize and that kind of stuff, that's one thing, but

18:28

if they've gotten rid of all the money and these

18:31

cues have no money, you can't get blood from

18:33

the stone sort of thing.

18:40

So our big hyper

18:43

connected new world works very nicely

18:45

for scammers. If a scammer

18:47

is in Quebec or Nigeria, and

18:50

a scammy is in Sardinia or Texas,

18:53

and the mules are doing their muelling in between.

18:56

That's a lot of different justice systems.

18:58

I'm synced, physically far apart.

19:02

I wondered if crackdowns were more successful

19:04

on the local level.

19:06

I've been doing this job in terms of cybersecurity

19:09

and cybersecurity investigation for

19:11

the past ten years now. When

19:14

I was in Ghana, I sat down with Phillip

19:16

One. Heads up that we were

19:18

speaking in a car during a rainstorm, so

19:21

it's a little noisy. Finneman's

19:23

part of a private digital forensics agency

19:26

that works with local law

19:28

enforcement. His job

19:30

is different than it was a decade

19:32

ago? At the time,

19:34

you realize that cybercrime wasn't

19:37

really really something that people even care

19:39

about within the country. Like, it wasn't

19:41

the kind of crime that you find, let's

19:43

say, law enforcement, changing

19:45

people to arrest and prosecute them because

19:48

it was quite new.

19:49

And it could seem like criminals had

19:51

a social cache in Gourmet and society

19:55

that shielded them from prosecution, When

19:57

somebody is a cyber criminal and they are enjoying

20:00

their proceeds from this crime, they tend

20:02

to donate to society, you know,

20:04

they are kind of respected. So laws

20:06

wasn't really punitive. It wasn't

20:08

really

20:09

4, so people just do

20:11

things without being punished.

20:14

I

20:14

wondered if part of the reason Sakao boys

20:16

had this slightly elevated status

20:19

in some people's eyes had to do with

20:21

Ghana's history. I'd heard

20:23

there are scammers who justify their illegal

20:25

actions because of

20:26

colonialism. When I was

20:28

in ACRA, I met up with another SAKARO

20:30

boy named Romana. There's

20:33

an argument that romance scams are

20:35

a form of reparations for slavery. People

20:39

see it as a way of taking back what

20:41

was stolen from

20:42

them? Hundred percent sure. Yeah.

20:45

Because back in the days, we were not

20:47

there, but we had the hard scale

20:49

for our boat more of

20:52

our properties to get to their side and

20:54

then build something for

20:55

themselves. So yeah.

20:57

I can see it's kind of a payback. A

21:01

kind of payback. Whatever

21:04

the scammer's perceived justification is

21:06

for these crimes, the end result

21:08

is usually the same. No

21:11

repercussions for the criminals involved.

21:13

But why is it that most cases don't

21:15

lead to a prosecution?

21:17

I asked Filimon why most cybercrime

21:20

investigations fail to lead to a

21:22

prosecution. There were any

21:24

challenges that we have currently

21:26

is the complainants. When there's

21:29

a case, getting the complainant

21:31

to come to court is difficult. Why

21:33

don't they wanna come 4? The

21:35

person making the complaint has

21:37

to also make sure that you are

21:39

willing to support the investigations. Okay?

21:42

You are willing to also testify. But

21:44

if you are not, it's difficult. And

21:46

most of the time, the victims are outside the country.

21:49

So getting a plane ticket,

21:51

coming

21:51

here, you know, they don't see

21:53

it as what it's, so they don't come.

21:59

So international justice usually

22:01

plays out pretty badly for victims

22:04

and pretty nicely for scammers. But

22:07

there's a third party in the romance gum chain.

22:10

The bait. So I wanted

22:12

to know if Janessa Brazil had ever sued

22:14

anyone for using her name and image.

22:18

Simon, the journalist from episode one,

22:20

believed he'd uncovered Janessa true identity

22:24

and that her real name was Vanessa.

22:27

When Simon thought he'd tracked down Vanessa,

22:29

he tried to warn her about how her pictures

22:31

were being used.

22:34

And she basically said,

22:37

Thank you for alerting me to this. I'm

22:39

well aware of it. This

22:41

scam has been so enormous

22:44

that I'm at souloply unable

22:47

to work at the moment, and it's

22:50

made my life a misery. I've been subject

22:52

to court proceedings in

22:54

Florida. I even had one

22:56

man who claimed that

22:58

he'd given me two million dollars

23:01

that I'd embezzled from

23:03

him And I was

23:05

taken to court. My assets have

23:07

been frozen. I'm not allowed

23:09

to post anything in public

23:11

online. And I'm

23:14

basically struggling to try

23:16

and clear my name so that I can get back

23:18

to work again.

23:20

Of course, we don't know if Simon had actually

23:22

been corresponding with the real Janessa

23:24

Brazil, but we were curious

23:26

about the idea of court proceedings involving

23:29

her. We couldn't find

23:31

any traces of her name in the courts.

23:34

But then we found that video from twenty

23:36

nineteen of Janessa cohosting

23:38

Babba Show.

23:41

You gotta work the phones

23:42

a week. Imagine if I got all the money that these

23:44

people send out

23:45

to these people can ask us, I'd be a

23:47

million.

23:49

Millions of dollars. Bubba show is recorded

23:52

in Tampa. And in Florida,

23:54

my producers know a guy who specializes

23:56

in finding

23:57

people. Bob Norman.

24:00

Bob was a journalist based in South Florida.

24:03

He

24:03

works closely with a private investigator to

24:05

find people in a place. Where

24:07

a lot of people go to not

24:09

be found. There is a

24:11

culture of con in

24:14

Florida. There's no question about it.

24:16

There's a lot of grifting going on

24:18

in Florida. Maybe he's

24:20

been down there too long, but

24:23

Bob's take on Janessa was immediately

24:25

skeptical. You

24:27

know, when you look at her, I

24:29

think, it seems that suspicions

24:31

arise over and over. And as you say, been

24:34

the face of many scams. My

24:37

first thought was that she's got

24:40

to be involved. I mean, that was my first thought.

24:42

Either that or she's the most unlucky person

24:46

to be wrapped up in this all the time.

24:48

It's natural to have suspicion.

24:51

Is that fair? Probably not.

24:54

Is it worth pursuing? Absolutely. I

24:58

have to admit that I felt sort of protects

25:01

of Janessa when he said that. Making

25:03

this podcast, it feels like I've spent

25:06

a lot of time with her even though

25:08

we've never met. I realized

25:10

I'd come to think of her as someone who'd been exploited,

25:13

the Roberto version of Janessa.

25:16

Was I too getting caught up in a fantasy

25:18

of rescuing her? As

25:22

Bob talks, I also wondered

25:24

if I was a bit naive about who

25:26

was pulling the levers on the Janessa Brazil

25:28

scheme. After all, she

25:30

was in a perfect position to

25:32

make a lot of money off her image And

25:35

would that even be such terrible thing?

25:38

It was her image after all.

25:41

As she said on Bubba's show, millions

25:43

of dollars have been sent to the fake geneticists

25:46

around the

25:46

world. And she hasn't seen

25:49

a penny. Who could

25:51

blame her if she tried to get some of that money

25:53

herself?

25:57

Do you Janessa Brazil as

25:59

the victim? That she

26:02

could very much so be the innocent person

26:04

whose images have resurfaced

26:07

the Internet thousands of times.

26:09

I mean, your image is not

26:12

yours it's out there. But

26:14

I mean, if it why would

26:16

they use surface? What is she a modern

26:18

day helen of Troy or something,

26:20

you know, or she's a siren from Elisis.

26:24

She draws them in. I Is that

26:26

what it is? She just got a face that

26:29

somehow is more effective than

26:31

other faces. I don't know. Reflecting

26:35

is poor that comes to mind. It's

26:38

4.

26:40

The best way to get to the bottom of this would

26:42

be to speak to her myself. But

26:45

first, I'd need to find her.

26:52

If let's say she does fall under category

26:54

of someone who doesn't wanna be found,

26:56

how easy would it be for for

26:59

someone to disappear in the US.

27:02

It's not easy at all. It's almost

27:04

impossible. I guess

27:06

we're kind of in the mindset slash

27:08

limbo of trying to think of another

27:10

angle or another approach

27:12

that we may not have thought

27:14

of. Does anything

27:16

come to mind for you? Well,

27:20

I mean, there's obvious, I think,

27:23

ideas to come to mind. One is, think

27:26

you all are following that, trying to find other people

27:28

that are close to her, trying to

27:31

find another way into

27:34

her crisis or confidence

27:36

in some way.

27:39

We know one person who's close to

27:41

Janessa

27:42

is part of my show. She's a co host. Janessa

27:44

said hi, Nicole.

27:45

Hi, Nicole.

27:46

Bye bye. The radio host from

27:48

Tampa, Florida. His full

27:50

now legal name is Bubba,

27:53

the Lovespunch clam, by the way,

27:55

BUBBATHEL0VESP0NGE,

28:04

then you have to put the little registered trademark

28:07

the r, the circle r because it's a federally

28:09

registered trademark name, and then

28:11

the last name.

28:14

So I set my hunt for Janessa aside.

28:16

To see if I can get bubba to talk

28:18

to me. I tried Twitter, I

28:21

tried Twitch, I tried his

28:23

agent. I also try

28:25

reaching him at a racetrack he owns in

28:27

Ocala, Florida.

28:29

Please check by the racetrack art dot

28:31

com for time and pricing.

28:33

Thanks so much, and we hope to see you at your three

28:35

time.

28:37

At the tone, please record your message.

28:41

Hi. My name is Hannah Jala. I

28:43

am a BBC journalist hoping to

28:45

speak to Todd aka Bubba

28:47

The Loves Vonage

28:49

I can be reachable via email. And

28:51

then one day, papa's

28:53

name pops up in my inbox.

28:57

Yes. I'm available for your podcast.

29:00

Tell me what I need to do.

29:09

Next time on love

29:12

Janessa. I met Janessa

29:15

in New York at Howard Sturges

29:17

Studios. And I just thought

29:19

that, oh my god, she's so

29:22

stunning. I hope I can add some insight

29:24

for you guys.

29:32

Love Janessa is produced by Antica

29:34

Productions and telltale industries

29:36

for the BBC World Service. And CBC

29:39

Podcasts. I'm Hannah

29:41

Jella. Our producers are

29:43

Katrina Anstead and Laura Reger.

29:46

Associate producers are Hayley Choi

29:48

and Simonirata. Sound

29:50

design and audio mix by Philip Wilson

29:53

with help from Cameron McIver. Executive

29:55

producers are Stuart Cox and JaeGoli.

29:59

At CBC Podcasts, Emily

30:01

Canal is coordinating producer. Chris

30:04

Oakes is executive producer, and

30:07

RF Norani is the director. At

30:10

the BBC World Service, and

30:12

Dixie is senior podcast producer.

30:14

And John Menau is a podcast commissioning

30:17

editor. Thanks for listening.

30:29

A BBC World Service and CBC Podcast

30:32

Production