0:00

Coming and backdrop

0:00

that you've got there?

0:03

Is

0:04

it, this is my hovel.

0:06

It's I, I have downsized

0:06

my life quite a bit.

0:11

I live like in a little attic

0:11

in a cottage style house.

0:14

Okay. Sounds nice.

0:16

Yeah. Yeah.

0:19

You know, fake fire cozier.

0:24

Yeah. Cool. You know, making life easier.

0:30

I

0:30

understand that. I understand that you don't do video.

0:35

Do you record the video?

0:37

Yes, I am recording now currently

0:40

I listened to you on

0:40

Ryan's edge of the bed podcast.

0:48

And yeah. Well, after hearing your

0:49

story, it really is people.

0:53

I mean, you just never know.

0:58

No, you don't

0:58

and I'm so interested in this

1:03

because I feel like it takes. A special broken ness or something in

1:05

someone's brain chemistry or whatever.

1:11

And I don't like to call everything an illness cause I truly believe there is evil.

1:16

Yeah. It takes a special.

1:20

Set of circumstances within a

1:20

person that they can manipulate

1:25

people and whatever their game

1:25

is like, it's just, I don't know.

1:32

Do you think that do you

1:32

think that all of the people that

1:39

are using manipulating exploiting

1:39

other people for their own benefit,

1:47

do you think that some of them are

1:47

not aware of what they're doing?

1:54

Or do you think they're actually

1:54

aware it's calculated or do you think

1:58

they're just blindly going through

1:58

life, satisfying, whatever desires

2:03

they've got and in that process of

2:03

satisfying desires, they're hurting other

2:09

people or you think it's calculated?

2:12

I think it's both. I think they have to get really

2:15

smart about some things and

2:18

then it's becomes calculated. But I think their, their instinct to just

2:20

use people, it comes out without thought.

2:29

If that makes sense, it's kind of like a default. I don't know.

2:31

That's just my, because you know, when I

2:31

think when you're abused by a parent too,

2:36

it's kind of like, they're your parent

2:36

and you need them to love you and you

2:41

need them to like nurture you and see you.

2:44

And I don't know if some of that is a

2:44

desperate need to say, Oh, my mom didn't

2:47

know what she was doing all the time.

2:50

So yeah, I mean, I don't know

2:50

for sure, but it's just living.

2:54

I think living with somebody for 30 years,

2:54

you, you kind of get to know, like, you

2:59

can see that they're triggered sometimes. And also sometimes you can

3:01

see the wheels turning and.

3:05

It's kind of like, I think you're

3:05

really fucking with me right now.

3:08

I think you're honestly like intentionally

3:08

fucking with me, but sometimes

3:13

it's just a reaction to something.

3:16

So do you, do you

3:16

worry that people who have

3:19

been abused in any type of way. Hmm.

3:23

For a long period of time, do you worry

3:23

that they'll take on those behavior

3:28

patterns and I'm not saying repeat the

3:28

behavior, I'm saying manifest those

3:34

behavior patterns in, in different

3:34

ways in the, in their, in their lives.

3:38

Do you worry that that means that that's gonna

3:40

happen? I don't think it's a worry. I think it's just kind of a little

3:42

bit of a given, but also I think.

3:47

There are those of us who are aware of

3:47

it and we know there's something wrong.

3:51

And there are those who intentionally

3:51

try to understand it and also

3:56

try to change the behaviors.

3:58

I mean, I've had fleas, definitely.

4:00

There are times I've looked in the

4:00

mirror and been like, Oh my God, I'm

4:02

acting just like my mom right now. Yeah.

4:05

It's learned. And if that's all, you know,

4:06

that's all, you know, but there's

4:10

also an awareness of this.

4:13

Isn't how I want to be. You know, and then doing

4:15

something about it.

4:18

I don't know.

4:20

No, no, no. I agree with you. It's it's about awareness awareness within

4:21

yourself, but also hopefully you, along

4:26

the way you get taught that it doesn't

4:26

have to be, you don't have to be that way.

4:31

Right. So maybe you've been acting these

4:31

patterns out as a teenager, let's

4:34

save as an example, and then hopefully

4:34

you get taught that those patterns,

4:39

it doesn't have to be that way. You can change, change those things and,

4:40

and just become like you say, aware.

4:45

Yeah. Yeah. Complicated stuff, complicated stuff.

4:49

Yeah.

4:50

I mean, the mind is

4:50

extremely intricate and complicated

4:56

and our souls are, you know, Yeah,

4:56

who knows what's going on there?

5:00

It's deep. It's definitely don't understand.

5:03

It really is. Yeah. I think we know it

5:06

fraction. Yeah. Yeah.

5:10

Small fraction.

5:11

I was thinking, yeah, go for it.

5:14

You have so many good thoughts. I feel like maybe you should interview me.

5:18

I was interviewed by Jeremy .

5:22

Jeremy: Well, there's

5:25

Let's call it a myth for now. That let's say the situation

5:27

that I was in child sexual abuse.

5:32

You know, a lot of people are, I hear

5:32

the comment of when we talk about

5:37

Pedophiles they would probably.

5:40

Abused as children and they're

5:40

just reacting the behavior.

5:43

That's why that's an interesting concept

5:43

to discuss for me, because I don't think

5:49

just putting that label on anybody that's

5:49

abused a child before it's correct.

5:54

Is the correct thing to do. And I don't believe it's

5:55

the correct thing to do. Number one of the top reasons for that

5:58

is because then what are we saying about.

6:03

Victims or survivors of sexual abuse.

6:06

What we're going to, what we're saying that they're all going to grow up to do the same.

6:09

Like that's not, that's not true

6:09

and that's not very nice either.

6:13

So it's not fair. It's really not.

6:17

Yeah. Yeah. I could, I could see how definitely

6:18

see how that would be a struggle.

6:23

You know, and the sexual abuse thing is

6:23

so it's so overt and it's such a violation

6:29

of a, of a child and, and where they are

6:29

and, and what they can and cannot handle.

6:35

And It's just one of those things.

6:39

It's like a line in the sand kind

6:39

of thing, which is interesting about

6:42

your story, which is why I want

6:42

to have you on, because I think, I

6:44

think there's some interesting things

6:44

there, like the mind games that we

6:48

play, the shame that we have and with

6:48

you, it's probably like a different

6:54

set of that, but it's also, yeah.

6:56

So many things anyway. Yeah. I want to hear more from you

6:59

on, on that too, because.

7:03

You know, I have, I was just

7:03

telling my boyfriend yesterday.

7:06

I'm like, I'm so worried

7:06

about being like my mom.

7:09

He was like I wish you would

7:09

be more assertive and tell me

7:11

what you want when you want it. And I'm like, but you have no idea.

7:15

My mom micromanaged every little thing.

7:17

And like she designed the day, you

7:17

know, even when I was in D and I'm

7:21

like, I'm so afraid of doing that. And he's like okay, that makes sense.

7:26

Let's start with what's currently

7:26

happening in your world.

7:29

Yeah.

7:30

Okay. Yeah, that's right. That's a good one.

7:32

Okay. So my current mission target vision is to

7:33

communicate the very difficult subject of

7:42

child sexual abuse in the most engaging.

7:46

Interesting way that I can.

7:51

I am trying to do that because I want

7:51

to help the other people that are

7:58

out there already trying to raise

7:58

the awareness and break the silence.

8:03

I want to help them. And I also want to try my best to get

8:04

this discussion on everybody's table.

8:12

So my strategy is to get it on everybody's

8:12

table with a concentration on people who

8:20

do not have a direct link to the topic.

8:23

I got to try to make it not so

8:23

scary, not so difficult to watch,

8:32

not so uncomfortable because

8:32

that's, that's what it is.

8:36

Right. I would want to try to achieve Making

8:37

content that when you're scrolling

8:44

on your social media you on a Sunday

8:44

evening, you actually stop because you're

8:51

like, Oh, I wonder what's been released. And I wonder what, what angle

8:53

they're coming at the subject now,

8:57

now I'm talking things like huh.

9:00

It actually feels as an adult.

9:02

When you look back at your childhood, And

9:02

that happened to you, how you feel, you

9:07

felt as a child when that was happening

9:07

to you, what do you think would have

9:13

helped increase the chances that you

9:13

would have spoken out at the time?

9:18

Why did you not speak out at the time?

9:21

What could be done to help prevent this

9:21

happening to children in the future?

9:26

So I'm trying to hit the subject

9:26

from all different angles

9:28

and I am using photography.

9:32

Film illustration animation

9:32

to try to do that.

9:40

Just to really try to raise the

9:40

awareness and break the silence that

9:45

is allowing it to thrive behind closed

9:45

doors, keeping it behind closed doors.

9:51

So that's the mission and

9:51

the vision that I'm on.

9:56

That's incredible. It's incredible that you're just doing it.

10:01

It seems like you could

10:01

just dove in and yeah.

10:05

So I feel, I feel, I feel

10:05

great that I can talk about it like

10:09

this and actually with confidence

10:09

that it's going to take off.

10:16

And it's really gonna turn into

10:16

something I'm not every day isn't fit.

10:20

Full of confidence. You know, some days I've got my head in

10:22

my hands and I'm like, what are you doing?

10:28

You know, but yes, you know, we got to keep pushing

10:31

through those, through those cause

10:34

the better days are the better days. Yeah.

10:37

And well it's been a long journey

10:37

and process to get to this point,

10:42

you know, because I mean it was.

10:48

Two years ago, I really

10:48

started this project.

10:51

Okay. And it was five years ago.

10:56

I spoke out for the first

10:56

time to a close friend.

11:00

So

11:02

yeah,

11:04

I'm 35 now. And I spoke out for the first

11:05

time to, from when I was 27.

11:09

So eight years ago, actually I spoke out

11:09

to a close friend for the first time.

11:14

Interesting. Yeah, the process it's such a process.

11:18

It's not like this night

11:18

and day different or

11:24

it really isn't. I mean, I didn't, I didn't start thinking

11:24

about what happened really until I was 24.

11:35

The abuse went on when I

11:35

was between eight and nine.

11:39

Okay. So 24 it's, 15 years after.

11:44

And and yeah, I, I, up until I was 24,

11:44

I hadn't forgotten about the abuse.

11:53

Right. I just didn't care about it.

11:57

It just kind of

11:57

goes in a different box.

12:00

Yeah. Yes, yes, absolutely.

12:02

And the box is the metaphor

12:02

that I like to use.

12:05

I actually got explain that

12:05

metaphor from somebody.

12:07

And they said when it's something, when

12:07

things are going on as a child w to you

12:12

as a child, that you cannot process you

12:12

put it in a box, lock of box away, put

12:18

it on the shelf and save it for later.

12:21

Yeah. And what will happen is as you get

12:21

older and you're ready to start looking

12:26

at that information, the box will

12:26

sort of start to open its lid for you.

12:31

So I believe if we take that metaphor

12:31

when I was 24, that started happening for

12:36

me because all the other times up until

12:36

I was 24, I was, my life was going well.

12:42

I had great friends. I had a career.

12:46

I was working as a structural

12:46

engineer, designing.

12:50

All sorts of fantastic, exciting things.

12:53

And I was just having a good time.

12:56

Now. What's really interesting was there

12:57

would be things here and there that

13:02

would remind me of, of what happened.

13:05

So something would come up on the news.

13:09

You know, when the Jimmy Savile story

13:09

went massive like that, I was like, I bet

13:12

that's the same thing that happens to me. Something will come up on a film,

13:14

somebody would say something in passing

13:17

conversation and it would remind me of

13:17

it, but just for a very brief moment, and

13:23

then I'd continue doing what I was doing. Yeah.

13:26

But yeah, but then it was when I was 24

13:26

that the memory started coming back and

13:30

I literally couldn't get rid of them. That's when things started turning,

13:33

were they like flashbacks for you

13:33

or Just thinking about it all the time.

13:40

Yeah. Initially it started off as feeling really

13:42

uncomfortable and low, not sure why.

13:50

And it would last small amount of time.

13:52

I was like, that's weird. That's a really new feeling.

13:55

That's where I was aware that

13:55

something, something had changed.

14:00

Then some months went past

14:00

the frequency of these.

14:05

Low moments would increase the length

14:05

of these low moments would increase.

14:08

And then they came

14:08

coupled with flashbacks.

14:12

Interesting. It's like our body remembers before.

14:15

Yeah.

14:16

Yeah. Brain does. Yeah. I think you're right.

14:19

I really think you're right. Yeah, I think, and I think it

14:20

introduces it gradually to you

14:24

and then, and then the box. Let's you let's, you have more and

14:28

more gradually as you can handle more.

14:32

You know, I really thought, I really

14:32

honestly thought as soon as I realized

14:36

what this was, what was going on

14:36

when they started, when the low point

14:39

started coming coupled with memories

14:39

of the abuse, I thought to myself,

14:43

the best strategy, you're not I'm 25. At that point, you know, the world,

14:45

my, my mind was like the world's

14:48

my oyster, you know, I was doing

14:48

well in my job and partying and

14:52

enjoying life and, and I thought.

14:55

The strategy to get me through

14:55

that would just be to ignore them,

15:01

just ignore them, keep bagging

15:01

them away and they'll go away.

15:05

Of course they will,

15:06

you know? Yeah. I have a friend Ryan Fitzpatrick.

15:11

But the idea that. You know, doing that, like

15:13

kind of dissociating or batting

15:16

things away gets things done. Yeah.

15:19

Yeah. And it really can only go on for so long.

15:23

That's it? Yeah. That's what I learned. That's what I learned.

15:26

It works, you know, I bet it away.

15:29

It'll go away from him about it away. We'll go away for three weeks,

15:30

then two weeks then one week,

15:33

and then, then I realized ah. They're not going away for good.

15:38

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

15:41

So that's when I realized I

15:41

needed to do something about it.

15:44

And that's what led me to speak out

15:44

to a close friend for the first time.

15:49

Yeah.

15:51

I don't want to say it's like

15:51

so brave because I think we feel like

15:54

we're at the end of our rope when we

15:54

get to that place, like, I feel like,

16:00

did you ever feel like you were dying? Did you ever have panic or I'm trying

16:01

to, it's hard to compare people's

16:06

stories, but I'm just trying to get

16:06

like for anyone else who might be

16:10

waking up to something like that,

16:10

that you know, that what happened,

16:14

isn't just something that can go away.

16:16

And it's it's with you. Like what that might be feeling like.

16:21

Yeah, for me,

16:21

I suppose I was lost.

16:24

I felt lost because I had no answer.

16:27

Yeah. Yeah. You know, so what is it

16:28

that I do with this then?

16:31

Like, if I, if ignoring it, isn't getting

16:31

it to go away then, like, what do I do?

16:37

And I dunno, unless you go and

16:37

see somebody professionally.

16:43

I mean, where's the resource for, you

16:43

know, I mean, now that you have YouTube,

16:48

so I'm sure you could find what, like

16:48

really you could find, you could, I'm sure

16:53

you could find somebody talking about.

16:56

What they did in a way that resonates

16:56

with you online, but you know,

17:02

maybe eight years ago, that's not

17:02

where I was at searching online, but

17:06

yeah. Yeah. I didn't think about that.

17:09

Like, what's the thing that would've

17:09

gotten my attention as a 17, 18 year old,

17:14

19 year old kid when I was needing to

17:14

like move away from home and get away.

17:21

But now you've got, now you've

17:21

got many people talking like yourself.

17:25

Right. Doing your thing. Maybe you would have come across somebody.

17:30

Yeah. That's the thing, but internet

17:31

wasn't even allowed in our home.

17:33

So it would have been like

17:33

the brief, like the control.

17:36

Right. And that's what I also want to talk about.

17:39

Like you come, I'm curious about

17:39

your, your origins, your family life.

17:45

Like, what was that like? How, how did you grow up?

17:49

So I was growing up in a very.

17:52

Average usual family. Yeah.

17:55

So there was no, there was just no

17:55

issues in that part of my story.

17:59

It's just somebody who was looking

17:59

after us when my parents were at work.

18:05

And that's why a percentage of my work

18:05

is, is, is really trying to communicate

18:11

to people in the best ways that I

18:11

can, that it doesn't this pedophilia.

18:19

Or Peter, Peter fouls, they don't care

18:19

about social status wealth or any race.

18:29

They don't care for that. Right. They're just going to take

18:31

every opportunity that they can.

18:36

And so for, for anybody that thinks

18:36

our, this would never happen to my

18:39

child, or I know what my child would

18:39

tell me, you're like, That needs to

18:44

be discussed a little bit more because

18:44

I don't believe that that's true.

18:48

Like, you know,

18:50

so, yeah. So, I mean, I'm thinking about

18:51

the, the level of manipulation it

18:54

takes and they talk about grooming.

18:57

Right. And there's definitely a process there

18:57

and I'm thinking about like, I'm sure

19:03

you've racked your brain about this too.

19:05

Like what would a kid

19:05

need to have as a toolkit?

19:09

You know, going into that, I think

19:09

we all hear about, you know, don't

19:12

take the candy from strangers. Don't go looking for a lost puppy

19:14

with some guy in a van, you know?

19:20

Yeah.

19:22

But I don't think there's

19:22

a w I wonder if there's a way to

19:24

communicate well and to teach well,

19:24

like what maybe what's going on in

19:29

our bodies when someone's manipulating

19:29

us, or when we're hearing something.

19:33

And, and just that's. I like the idea of

19:35

teaching kids meditation.

19:37

I wonder if that's even a thing

19:37

like being so aware of yourself and

19:42

as a, as a child, and what's going

19:42

on with you, if that would also be

19:46

helpful, you know, for anything like

19:46

that, but it's, it's so hard to know.

19:52

Unless there was like a YC done study.

19:56

So it's it's it's an area

19:56

that I'm so interested in about how

20:02

we can help children recognize the

20:02

grooming process or recognize any

20:08

type of abuse and speak out about it.

20:12

It's, it's really actually very

20:12

interesting and such a challenge

20:15

to think of different ways. The meditation thing I.

20:20

Wow, that that teaches you lots.

20:23

Right? So emotions, emotions as well.

20:26

And, and I have heard occasionally that

20:26

it's getting into schools now, which is

20:30

a fantastic thing, but I'm just about to

20:30

release a short film about why I believe

20:38

I never told anybody about the abuse.

20:41

At the time it was going on. So actually covers covers what

20:43

we just, what your question is.

20:47

And for me in my situation,

20:47

I didn't know what was right.

20:55

I didn't know the difference

20:55

between good and bad touch.

20:58

I didn't know about private areas.

21:01

I didn't know about sex.

21:03

Yeah. And just to add in there, I was

21:06

going through this abuse in 1993.

21:11

So you think what children are

21:11

like in 1993 to now it's very, very

21:17

different because now they're seeing.

21:20

Music videos, which could

21:20

be classified as soft porn.

21:23

Right. You know, and they've got the phone,

21:24

which they can access anything.

21:28

And it's, it's talked about a bit

21:28

more, so they're a bit more clued up,

21:33

but in 1993, you were not clued up.

21:35

And so I did not, no, I did not know

21:35

what the rules around private areas were.

21:44

Yeah. Maybe if that was taught, I would

21:45

have, it would have increased the

21:47

chances that I would have spoken out. I didn't know what sex was.

21:56

I didn't know. that. There had to be no secrets kept

21:58

anybody to ask you to keep a secret.

22:02

You are to tell somebody if somebody asks

22:02

you to do that, now I've heard a lot of

22:06

people say, or we couldn't speak to our.

22:09

Charlie about that, because

22:09

that would ruin his innocence.

22:13

Oh my God. That would just scare him. But I'm like, okay, that's true.

22:17

I'm not going to say that

22:17

that possibly wouldn't happen.

22:20

However, I think the consequences

22:20

of not doing it are scary.

22:25

Yeah.

22:26

I follow this account on

22:26

Instagram called sex positive families.

22:31

Do a lot of education, like educating

22:31

parents on how to talk to children about

22:34

their bodies and sex and all of that.

22:37

But in a way that's

22:37

like, you know, For kids.

22:41

Yeah. And in a way that's all about their

22:41

boundaries and them as an individual.

22:47

Why do we think it's

22:47

not scary to say to a child.

22:54

Don't speak to strangers. Otherwise they'll put you, put you

22:55

in the back of their van and take

22:58

you away and you'll never see. So, so we do that.

23:01

We do that, and we're okay with that.

23:03

So what what's so scary about saying,

23:03

Oh, these are your areas of your body.

23:07

And if anybody touches you there,

23:07

then you're to tell mum and dad.

23:11

I think there's, I think

23:11

socially there's just so much shame.

23:16

You know, our parents grew up with shame

23:16

sex, and then they had no clue what they

23:21

were doing and just avoided it altogether.

23:24

If you avoid it, it's not there.

23:26

Right. I

23:30

mean, yeah, it's right.

23:32

It's right. But then another interesting question

23:32

is if you asked any adult and said, if,

23:37

when you were a child, you were taught.

23:40

Where the private area on your body was. And if anybody touches you there

23:42

you're to tell somebody, do you think

23:45

that would have scared you, that it

23:45

would have ruined your childhood?

23:49

I don't think anybody's saying yes. I think everybody's saying, yeah,

23:52

that probably would have been

23:54

quite good information, actually.

23:56

You know, it's a weird thing

23:56

that what you're talking about right,

23:58

right now is reminding me, my dad used

23:58

to like, not hug me and my sister,

24:02

because he was afraid he was going

24:02

to get accused of this or something.

24:07

I, I like, I know isn't it, but I

24:07

think there are so many weird built

24:12

up fears in society in general.

24:14

Like that's just one, right?

24:16

Like he, and then there

24:16

are all those stories.

24:18

I think coming out in the nineties even

24:18

have like false memories, supposedly

24:22

coming up in therapy, all people being,

24:22

you know, he was very afraid of that.

24:27

Yeah. I know that. I mean, that's just, that's

24:30

just scary though, isn't it?

24:32

Because it does That's teaching

24:32

these children because they're

24:39

children and they don't actually

24:39

understand why the rules are there.

24:43

Does that teach, teaching them increase

24:43

the number of claims false claims?

24:47

I don't know. I

24:48

don't know. I don't know. I just think there's so much, you

24:49

know, like to your point or question,

24:54

even like, I think things pile on

24:54

and we all have our own weird, right?

25:00

We've you've got fears

25:00

around that probably.

25:03

Yeah, definitely my,

25:03

the way people view you.

25:06

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

25:09

Unnecessary and unkind

25:09

and all of that stuff.

25:12

But we get these things in our heads

25:12

and, you know, and so it's kind of like

25:16

those things get packed down and talking

25:16

about it is I think just a wonderful

25:21

way to start starting the conversation.

25:24

I

25:24

think so. I think to anybody I get asked a question.

25:27

What would you advise to somebody who

25:27

has never spoke out before and has

25:33

the feeling that maybe they want to my

25:33

answer to that is always do whatever

25:39

you feel comfortable with don't,

25:39

don't bite off more than you can chew.

25:43

I think I need a better way of

25:43

metaphor for than that, but, you

25:46

know, you know You know, do what you

25:46

feel is right for you at this moment.

25:52

But if you don't want to speak to somebody

25:52

face to face, just write it that also.

25:57

Yeah. These are all types of therapy.

26:00

I believe they're not, they're

26:00

not necessarily sitting with a

26:03

professional, but just to write

26:03

down what you're thinking is huge.

26:08

Sat down with a professional. I'm just curious.

26:11

I never have. And yeah, no problem.

26:16

Yeah. Okay.

26:17

No, I just put it out there

26:17

because I think there's so much around

26:21

self-healing now too, you know, and the

26:21

ability to know what you kind of need.

26:26

So continue. I want to hear. Yeah.

26:29

And I think when I started

26:29

writing when I, so I spoke out to

26:35

a close friend and I believe that's

26:35

a huge step in anybody's journey.

26:41

Yeah. Then I felt really good about it.

26:45

And then I thought that's

26:45

everything done with we?

26:49

Good. Maybe two years later,

26:50

the feelings were back.

26:52

I spoke to another person. Then I thought we're good.

26:57

Then a year later, the feelings

26:57

I spoke to another, and then it

27:00

started like becoming more frequent. And then I started realizing, Oh,

27:01

the remedy for it is to speak.

27:05

Every time you get, feel

27:05

rubbish, speak to somebody.

27:08

Now I was very fortunate to have have

27:08

people around me that I could speak

27:12

to within, within two or three years,

27:12

I'd spoken to maybe 20, 30 people.

27:19

And I'd become really comfortable

27:19

with my story by this point.

27:24

And the fear of what other people

27:24

may think about my story, which

27:28

is definitely there was reducing.

27:31

It was like the confidence was

27:31

like eating away at the fear.

27:34

As I was speaking more and more. That's what led me to actually just

27:37

before that, I started getting very

27:44

curious about the subjects at this point.

27:47

Now I was still engineering. I'm still a structural

27:49

engineer at this point. So I was still working, but

27:50

I start in the evenings.

27:53

I started researching the topic. I wanted to know why people are doing

27:55

this, what it does to a child's brain.

28:01

What's happening to adults

28:01

that have been abused.

28:04

What are the statistics, all of these

28:04

things what's causing pedophilia.

28:09

So I was, I was really interested in this. I started researching and I come

28:10

across the chat room and it was one

28:14

lady's message that struck me so hard.

28:18

This lady was seventy years

28:18

old and she never told anybody.

28:22

And she says that she has the strong

28:22

suspicion that that has affected

28:26

every single thing in her life. Her relationships are trust issues, her

28:28

openness, and has really held her back.

28:34

And that's when I thought to myself I

28:34

should try to do something about this.

28:39

Right because I'm in a

28:39

really great position here.

28:42

A very fortunate position here

28:42

because I've told lots of people.

28:45

I feel confident this lady has

28:45

struggled because she'd never spoke

28:49

her story or never felt she could.

28:52

So because you're in such a great

28:52

position, I just feel like you should

28:55

at least start speaking of story. So I had coincidentally a couple of weeks

28:58

before that been to open mic nights.

29:04

Right. And

29:05

he used to go to those all

29:05

the time when the world was online.

29:11

So you know about that, that scene. Yeah.

29:14

And in London, it's huge. Yeah.

29:17

So I've been to a couple before and I

29:17

just had a kind of light bulb moment.

29:21

I was like, I could go there. Yeah. I could go there, sign up on the

29:23

door and I could just tell my

29:26

story for five minutes on stage.

29:29

Yeah. So I started writing my story.

29:32

That was the first time I'd written it. I started trying to write

29:33

it from different angles.

29:38

I started trying to talk about

29:38

things like why I never said

29:40

anything when the abuse was going on. And, and I was trying

29:42

to write performances. Now, this is where I believe

29:44

my therapy started coming in.

29:49

Right. Because I was trying to

29:49

unpack what happened.

29:51

I was trying to dissect what happened. I was trying to make reason

29:53

and understand what happened.

29:56

And I just believe this process was, was.

30:00

What helped me grow?

30:03

Definitely. Yeah.

30:07

That's so good. Yes, it was, it was very nice journey.

30:11

It really was.

30:12

Yeah. I'm so glad for that.

30:15

It's can be a really, it's such a weird.

30:21

Process. And yet it makes sense when you

30:22

look back and you're like, that

30:24

makes sense that it came, that

30:24

came out or come up when it did.

30:29

But as you're going through it, it's,

30:29

it's like, what is happening to me?

30:34

What do I do?

30:36

How are you, how are you feeling? The more podcasts that you do, the more

30:37

times you tell your story, like you feel

30:41

that that's a kind of therapy for you

30:44

in a way. Yes. And there's this other

30:46

part that just feels like.

30:51

I don't know I'm going to

30:51

get in trouble somehow.

30:53

Okay. That's your mom's speaker.

30:56

You think that's your mom?

30:59

I definitely hear her voice. Yeah. But you know, it was 30 years of living

31:01

that, you know, I think the deprogramming

31:07

takes awhile and you know, like how

31:07

much to tell and, and make sure making

31:13

sure it's my story and not, not.

31:16

You know, I might even cut the part

31:16

where I said specifically about my dad,

31:19

but use your example because it's not,

31:19

you know, it's not really, my that's not

31:25

mine to share, although that probably

31:25

affected my relationship with my father.

31:31

Yeah. So I have a hard, I have a

31:32

hard time knowing like, cause

31:35

I like to connect all the dots. Where did this start generationally?

31:40

I can see it in my grandparents and

31:40

my great-grandparents, you know?

31:44

Yeah. I can see all the stories and it's

31:44

like, I want to tell this story because

31:48

I think it's so important to also

31:48

look back and to say, what were, what

31:52

were we predisposed to as people,

31:52

you know, coming into this world and.

31:58

All that stuff. It all carries down, you know,

32:02

but when you go public with it, you are right. You knew you do need to do

32:04

what is necessary, I suppose.

32:10

And, and yeah, maybe you

32:10

don't always need to bet or

32:16

I have a problem doing it though, either. Like, so part of me is like, Yeah.

32:22

I don't know. I don't think anyone has a

32:23

really good answer on that.

32:25

You know, I like, I like

32:25

Anne Lamott's take on it.

32:28

She's like if people wanted you to speak

32:28

like kindly of them or go to them, then

32:32

they should have treated you better. You know, that kind of a thing.

32:36

Like it's that in a way is true.

32:39

Like, what we put out into the

32:39

world comes back to us and in a way.

32:43

You know, a person can't be put on

32:43

trial for the things my mom was doing.

32:47

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I thought about

32:49

that. Yeah. Sometimes I'm like she should be in

32:51

jail, but for what really, other than,

32:57

you know, basically she's a great

32:57

cult leader and that's what it is.

33:03

I think anyone who abuses and is able to

33:03

manipulate someone, they, they have, yeah.

33:10

There's a special thing. There needs to be.

33:15

If yes, they have a trait,

33:15

they have a trait, they have a

33:18

trait that is powerful to lead

33:18

them to do this, or at least

33:24

were assigned like in

33:24

the Puritan days of the word,

33:26

like sign around their neck that

33:26

says I'm a manipulator watch out.

33:32

What would you, what would you like? Do you think, let's say.

33:37

Your mother's actions were punishable

33:37

or you could prosecute for them.

33:43

Do you think seeing her,serve any

33:43

type of prison sentence would give

33:48

you any relief would give you any,

33:48

any, any feeling that's positive?

33:54

I

33:54

don't, I don't

33:54

think that it would honestly.

33:57

I think the thing is like

33:57

something we were saying.

34:01

So you were saying, if there are anything

34:01

were punishable, you know, in some

34:04

countries it would be like, she, the,

34:04

the spankings that she gave us were

34:08

beatings, but because we were told over

34:08

and over, this is a spanking sparing, the

34:12

rod spoil the child, blah, blah, blah. We're doing what the Bible says to do.

34:16

Okay. Right. Like you're getting physically hurt and

34:18

being told that this is what God wants.

34:22

Yeah. Wow. Those two things paired together.

34:26

It's like, of course, of course the

34:26

kid's not going to tell on their

34:29

parents, I'm doing what God wants.

34:32

And, but, you know, in some countries

34:32

you'd be, you know, you're not

34:37

allowed to hit your children,

34:37

whether it's a spanking or not.

34:43

I had someone ask me on my account. Like if, if narcissism was illegal

34:45

in my country, I didn't know.

34:50

They were getting I'm

34:50

like, no, I don't know.

34:54

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Cause it's it's yeah, the

34:55

whole, the whole area is gray.

34:58

Isn't

34:59

it? But no, it wouldn't make me feel

35:00

better to have her locked up.

35:03

The, the results what's happened in

35:03

her lifetime and the people she's

35:06

affected, you know, I feel very like.

35:08

Protective of the people in my life

35:08

that have been negatively affected and

35:12

their whole lives, you know, are turned

35:12

to something else, not just upside

35:17

down, but to something that they really

35:17

shouldn't have been in the first place.

35:21

And that, I don't know if there's

35:21

a way to undo that somehow.

35:25

Yeah, I do that. But having her locked up.

35:28

No, like I don't want, I

35:28

don't want to pay my mom back.

35:31

I don't, I don't want revenge on my mom. I just want people to be aware

35:33

and self-aware and feel empowered

35:37

to not let this ruin their lives.

35:42

Somehow

35:43

I'm often asking myself this

35:43

question, how would you feel if the

35:48

guy that this to me went to prison? It wouldn't give me any feelings

35:51

that are uplifting or positive.

35:55

You know, I mean, realistically that

35:55

the sentence for this particular

36:00

crime in my situation is small.

36:03

You know, we're talking a small number

36:03

of years and actually him going to prison

36:09

is that going to achieve anything great?

36:11

I don't think it would I

36:11

don't know the prison system.

36:16

I would guess that they're put on

36:16

a wing with the other Pedophiles or

36:21

talking about how annoyed they are. They got caught and better ways

36:23

to not get caught next time.

36:26

Like it's a guess, but I think I

36:26

wouldn't be too far off guessing like

36:30

that I've been, they just come out.

36:33

I don't know what type of rehabilitation

36:33

programs they've got going on.

36:38

I'm not sure. But yeah, I don't think a prison sentence

36:40

would, would make me feel any better.

36:46

I think we just

36:46

want it to

36:47

stop. Yeah.

36:49

Which unfortunately is not possible is

36:49

that you mean the feelings inside of

36:54

us? I think we want abusers to stop

36:55

what they're doing and, and we feel

36:59

powerless to do anything about that.

37:03

So we're trying something right.

37:06

And that that's absolutely

37:06

the reason why I've gone after him is

37:09

because when I started speaking open mic

37:09

nights, I was talking about prevention.

37:16

And one of the things that

37:16

I started thinking as I was

37:20

writing these performances was.

37:24

I was saying to myself, how can

37:24

you go on the stage and talk about

37:28

preventing this, how we can prevent

37:28

this when you haven't found out when you

37:34

haven't sorted out your own situation

37:34

yet, meaning you haven't found out

37:40

whether he's still doing this yet. Right.

37:43

So you can't go and. Talk to other people about what

37:45

they should do when you haven't

37:48

finished your own work yet. That's how my mind was thinking.

37:51

Really?

37:51

Yeah.

37:53

And I hated it

37:53

because I knew what it meant.

37:58

You know, I have no contact with this guy.

38:00

I didn't have any contact

38:00

with this guy from when it

38:03

finished, when I was around nine. So I'd never seen him.

38:06

I knew didn't know where he was. And I knew thinking about.

38:12

Is he still doing this to more

38:12

children, you should find out about

38:15

it meant I needed to try to find him.

38:19

So yeah, it's not about me pursuing

38:19

him and trying to prosecute him,

38:23

which is going on at the moment. It's not about, it's not about trying

38:25

to get him and put in prison or

38:29

go actually getting put in prison

38:29

does serve some benefit because

38:32

it takes him out of the community.

38:34

Right, right. That's what I mean by like,

38:36

we just want it to stop.

38:39

That's the only purpose it would serve. It would stop it for a little while.

38:43

Yes,

38:44

absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

38:47

So, yeah, I just started

38:47

to look for him online.

38:50

I couldn't find him. I found his wife's Facebook profile.

38:54

He was in all her pictures. He's got a family now and

38:56

to see his face was crazy.

39:03

It was like, you hadn't changed. It was the first time

39:05

I'd seen it in 25 years.

39:07

Oh my gosh. Well, how did where you

39:10

describe it? It's like, yeah. That picture that I saw felt panicked.

39:19

I felt hot. I felt my heart was racing.

39:23

I couldn't believe it. I had to quit.

39:26

Keep checking, keep looking

39:26

at it and then looking away.

39:30

Then I forced myself to look at it

39:30

and I was like, Oh my God, it's him.

39:37

Wow. I messaged his wife.

39:43

I got a bad response. And then I said to her, well, then I'm

39:45

just going to have to go to the police.

39:48

If you're not going to put me in contact with him. I asked her to put me in contact with him.

39:52

Cause I wanted to discuss with

39:52

him about what he did to me.

39:56

I didn't know what I was thinking

39:56

at the time, because that was, I

40:01

was, I was in belief that she'd

40:01

just be like, okay, fair enough.

40:06

Here's his number and we

40:06

just, and we just talk.

40:09

I really, I really that's what I wanted. I wanted to meet with him in a coffee

40:10

shop to go through what happened.

40:13

Yeah. They like, that was a bit naive.

40:15

That's cute.

40:18

That's cute. She's probably being just

40:21

as manipulated in life.

40:24

I mean, I can't imagine.

40:27

Like, if, if I fully didn't believe

40:27

someone was, if enough things

40:32

were happening, I would be like,

40:36

so he's probably,

40:36

he's probably groomed her.

40:39

Totally most likely. I mean, I don't want to make any yeah.

40:44

Either that or she's in on it, you know?

40:47

And I hope

40:50

yeah. Yeah. Cause it would be very, very tragic

40:51

if she was also in on it, you know,

40:56

but if she's being, she's being,

40:56

she has been manipulated by him.

41:00

What followed from the

41:00

police investigation.

41:03

After the year it was closed because

41:03

there wasn't enough evidence.

41:08

She had to give a statement. Of course, he had to give a statement.

41:11

I had to give a statement. There was a big investigation,

41:12

then it was closed.

41:15

Then a couple of months later I was

41:15

getting more and more angry that

41:20

he'd denied it, you know, in my eyes.

41:22

I'm like, yeah, if you were man enough

41:22

to do that, Then you should be man

41:28

enough to meet me now, just meet me.

41:31

You know, we can do it. I said to him, I sent him when

41:32

I sent these messages, I said,

41:35

we can do it on your terms where

41:35

you want you name the place you

41:39

named the time I will come to you. Right?

41:42

I was so I was just angry that

41:42

he had not been that been big

41:47

enough to, to come and meet me.

41:50

So from like a

41:50

rational person perspective,

41:56

it'd be like, if you accidentally hit

41:56

a puppy and you like own up to it, it's

42:01

not the same thing. No, it's really not.

42:04

It's really not because he's going

42:04

to, he's going to deny this too.

42:07

It's great. Isn't it? He's going to deny this.

42:10

Yeah, he has to, his, his,

42:10

his psyche is going to crack his ego.

42:15

Can't take it. He's not man enough though.

42:18

Yeah,

42:20

you're right. Yeah. So, yeah, so, so I just went looking

42:22

for him and One thing led to another.

42:28

I went looking at workplaces

42:28

because I knew it was a nurse.

42:32

I went looking for his wife to see if I

42:32

could get in front of her, which I managed

42:37

to do, but then still no contact from him.

42:40

Now, actually, by this point, I've

42:40

turned up so many times into their life.

42:46

Surely his wife is

42:46

thinking, hang on a minute.

42:49

Yeah.

42:50

And she probably did. And every time she started

42:51

to, he found some, I mean, so

42:56

interesting.

42:58

Who knows when I'm behind

42:58

closed doors, it had to have been

43:02

gymnastics. He's my son, he's very good at this.

43:08

That's you know, like when I turned

43:08

up at her work to ask her why

43:12

he hasn't contacted me, this was

43:12

after the police investigation.

43:15

She must've gone home. And said to him when he just started

43:18

sleeping again, since the police case had

43:24

finished and said to him, you are never

43:24

going to believe who turned up today.

43:28

Yeah. And he would have been like, I can't

43:29

believe he still hasn't gone away.

43:32

Surely she is thinking in

43:32

her head, Hey, this is a man.

43:38

Why would he make it up? And why has he not stopped?

43:42

I'm sure she is sure she is.

43:45

And whether she went to him and

43:45

told him or not, or she kept it to

43:48

herself, he's going to deny it again.

43:51

Or who knows.

43:54

Maybe, maybe he's got something

43:54

on her and he's threatening her.

43:59

You never know. I would love to find out one day.

44:03

I would love to find out one day, but

44:03

she's on his side because after seeing

44:07

her at her work I then managed to find

44:07

out where she lives, where they live.

44:13

And I went and knocked on his door and

44:13

that's when I faced him, he answered the

44:18

door, which was just the craziest moment.

44:22

He answered the door,

44:22

went to slam it sharp.

44:25

I put my foot in it, put my foot in

44:25

front of the door, miraculous, clean time

44:29

before he got it, managed to close it. And we had a confrontation for three or

44:31

four minutes of verbal confrontation.

44:35

And. His wife was in the background.

44:38

She called the police. Once I'd finished telling him

44:40

everything that I wanted to tell

44:43

him I went and waited for the police

44:43

at the top of the road because

44:48

there's no need for me to run away. I'm there for a reason, you know,

44:50

I'm not trying to hurt anybody.

44:53

I'm just there for a reason. And around the corner came three or four

44:55

police cars, blue lights, the whole works.

45:00

And yeah. Were

45:01

you hoping to get a sense of

45:01

if, if he's still doing this or also just

45:06

have him admit or one or the other, or,

45:09

mm, I think, I think now the,

45:09

the task of finding out or stopping,

45:17

finding out whether he's doing this

45:17

to more children, that that is now

45:22

coupled with him wanting him to face me.

45:26

Yeah. Yeah. Now I'm like, right.

45:28

Okay. So I want to make sure

45:29

you're not doing this.

45:32

One of the ways was to try to prosecute

45:32

hopefully they would seize your

45:36

computer and all of these things. Now that didn't work.

45:40

Now you're going to have to face me

45:40

and you should face me because I'm a

45:43

man now, and we need to talk about what

45:43

we did before and that's why I went

45:47

to his house to confront him about it.

45:50

I wasn't sure what, what, what the

45:50

result would be The result was I

45:55

ended up in a police cell at two in

45:55

the morning until two in the morning

46:00

and I got arrested and now I've been

46:00

to court three times and they still

46:05

haven't decided what to do with me.

46:08

But I'm in trouble. Because yeah, because I'm now

46:10

being prosecuted for harassment for

46:18

trying to make contact with them. The number of times that I did.

46:21

I'm in trouble for stalking, for finding

46:21

out where they live and I'm in trouble

46:26

for assault for pushing him in the chest

46:26

when he tried to slam the door on me.

46:29

Yeah. So yeah, I'm now in a

46:31

bit of trouble with the

46:33

law. I like the, I mean, I liked that

46:34

you're describing this like this

46:37

and I've seen the reenactment

46:37

video on your YouTube by the way.

46:40

So anyone interested in that can go check it out. But it's interesting because

46:42

that's what happens on.

46:48

Multiple micro levels

46:48

during manipulation, right?

46:51

They they're, they've

46:51

done something to you.

46:54

And when you speak out about it

46:54

or try to confront it, they turn

46:59

around and call you the abuser. They call you the one breaking

47:01

the law cops called on you.

47:06

It's very common microcosm of

47:11

it's their natural reaction to it. Isn't it? Because now they're caught out.

47:15

Yeah. They're like children.

47:18

Yeah. I really feel like they're

47:20

underdeveloped in so many ways.

47:28

They have no ability

47:28

to take responsibility,

47:33

but it's interesting. It's interesting because actually

47:34

we go through the abuse and.

47:41

Possibly periods after feeling like

47:41

we're the ones with no power, but

47:46

actually we got all the power because

47:46

we got the story, we got the story

47:51

and we're not afraid to speak it. And then all of a sudden it becomes

47:52

our we're in the driving seat.

47:57

They will never be in the driver's seat. How can they ever be in the driving seat?

48:00

Cause we're calling them out. Yeah,

48:03

yeah, yeah. So it's yeah, it's so true.

48:07

There is something you were talking

48:07

earlier about me sharing my story.

48:10

And if that's, I do feel in a way, like

48:10

I own the story now, it's no longer,

48:15

I'm having to tell people something

48:15

that my parents wanted the world to

48:19

believe about what went on in our home.

48:21

Like I'm not going to

48:21

carry that lie anymore.

48:27

I mean, it's obvious it's written

48:27

all over our family, the destruction.

48:31

And there's a reason for it. And all it's done since then is

48:32

helped others who were affected

48:35

by it put two and two together.

48:39

Yeah. And for that, that's why, you

48:40

know, that's why I'm grateful.

48:44

I've told it and the people

48:44

who've needed to hear it so far.

48:47

I've heard it. And others are coming to me and

48:48

saying, I'm realizing this is

48:51

what was going on in my family. And this is I'm taking response.

48:54

I'm now taking that responsibility

48:54

of turning this around.

49:00

So it's owning it. I think that's a, I think that's a

49:01

really, that's really great way to put it.

49:04

You own it instead of it owning you.

49:06

Yeah. And you it's, yours is so

49:07

like down the line, right?

49:11

It's it's, it's definitely like sexual

49:11

abuse toward a child is definitely wrong.

49:18

But there is a lot of shame that

49:18

people carry and there's a lot of

49:21

secrets and hiding and wondering

49:21

how much you were a part of that and

49:25

wondering like all of that stuff. And then also you're like

49:28

taking it and saying no more.

49:31

I'm doing everything in my power

49:31

to get the message out and to.

49:36

Change the way the world operates

49:36

around this stuff, because it's been

49:40

going on since the beginning of time.

49:44

Yeah. And I'm really trying my best to shed

49:45

the embarrassment that comes with it.

49:50

I'm trying to shed the

49:50

shame that comes with it.

49:53

I'm trying to shed the shyness that comes

49:53

with it in myself, because then I hope

49:57

that that will reflect in my work because.

50:01

Yeah. You know, when we think about it

50:01

rationally that embarrassment, that

50:05

something like that happened to you

50:05

as a child or young person, there

50:09

is, there is a bit of a, there is an

50:09

embarrassment that comes with it because

50:12

you feel like you were tricked or you

50:12

were made to, you were taken for a fool,

50:18

or you were somehow stupid because you

50:18

fell for this thing when none of that

50:24

is useful or necessary, you Either

50:24

a child or you were under somebody's

50:31

manipulation, you would not to know. Yeah.

50:34

So I try my hardest to shed these

50:34

unnecessary unproductive emotions.

50:40

And then I hope that that people

50:40

can see that in my work, because

50:42

there's, we do on a bigger level.

50:46

We do need to change the narrative. We do need to change the way

50:48

we are dealing with this.

50:53

Yeah. Because it's not good.

50:55

It's not good. It's not good. It's not on, it's not, it's not.

50:59

Okay. So I think for those of us that do

51:00

have a story to tell, I do really

51:06

think it's just so powerful to tell it.

51:11

It's so great. It's so great to tell it.

51:13

I mean, the, the potential in

51:13

telling your story is it's unlimited.

51:19

It's so cheesy, but if you could

51:19

just help one person, but usually

51:23

it's a lot more than one person.

51:25

Yeah. But it's so true. It's so true that just

51:28

helping one person, like yeah.

51:31

Means the world. Yeah.

51:33

And then do you ever have those moments

51:33

where it's like, everybody knows about

51:37

this and like, I don't know if it's doing

51:37

any good and like I pulled it all out.

51:41

Yeah, I know. Yeah.

51:43

Yeah. We spoke about it at the start, you

51:43

know, some days, some days you're like.

51:47

What am I doing? Why, what you think, why

51:49

do you think your voice.

51:53

Needs to be heard. Why do you think you can do this?

51:56

Why do you think your

51:56

story means anything?

51:58

Yeah. Those days come and they're

51:58

really annoying actually.

52:02

Because you know, they'll pass,

52:02

but when you're in them, it's

52:06

like, this may never pass, you

52:06

know, but you know, two days later.

52:10

You're feeling good. Again, your upload, and

52:11

again, you're speaking again.

52:14

You're, you're actually realizing

52:14

there's even better ways to talk

52:17

to your story and explain it. Maybe you actually discover a new part of

52:18

the story that you've never spoken about.

52:22

That's really interesting to you

52:22

and possibly other people and yeah.

52:28

Yeah. So true. That's good.

52:31

Yeah, it is. You're inspiring.

52:33

Definitely. And like you, you're doing

52:34

really, really good, important

52:38

work and thank you so much. I wished all those crappy days

52:40

you could be like, that could be

52:43

in the forefront of your mind. Right. But yeah, I know you've probably got a

52:45

good support system around you and yeah.

52:52

Yeah. It's, it's good.

52:54

It's good. Heavy stuff. Do you have any resources or

52:57

anything right now that you're.

53:00

Sharing other than like your

53:00

YouTube and your Instagram and like,

53:04

youTube, Instagram, Facebook,

53:04

a little bit of Twitter, but they're my

53:09

platforms got a website coming out in a

53:09

couple of months, which is super exciting.

53:15

I'm working with a great, yeah. A designer called Maria and we're thought

53:17

we're trying to detail the history of

53:22

the project, the vision for the future.

53:24

We're going to have a go fund me page

53:24

on there so that we can try to create

53:28

some revenue to help fund these projects

53:28

because the filming projects, the

53:33

animation projects, the illustration

53:33

project, they're very expensive.

53:37

People need paying. And at the moment I give I've

53:38

stopped my engineering career.

53:44

Collected what I have and I'm funding

53:44

the project at the moment, which is

53:48

fine, but of course there's no tree

53:48

of money and my money will run out.

53:55

So the website is exciting.

53:57

It's a massive move forward. Then all the content will be on there.

54:02

And I really do hope that

54:02

Something can be created.

54:07

That's just super useful and can

54:07

just continue, continue forever.

54:12

That's the plan.

54:14

Yeah, that'd be amazing. And I think it's going to happen

54:16

you're you already have such

54:19

great quality work out there. And I can tell you to really put

54:20

thought and effort into making this

54:25

and not just enjoy like pretty to look

54:25

at, but like formative and you're very

54:29

passionate and easy to watch and amazing.

54:32

Yeah.

54:33

Yeah. I really appreciate

54:34

that.

54:34

Yeah. Thank you for what you're doing.

54:36

That's

54:37

cute.

54:38

Is there anything else, what

54:38

would you like to share to somebody

54:41

today who might be waking up to the

54:41

things that maybe happened in the

54:45

past, or even someone going through it? Like, do you have anything

54:47

you want to impart?

54:52

I would say you're

54:52

strong enough to get through it.

54:58

You will get through it. You, you all, your strength was built

55:00

during and after the actual abuse.

55:06

And that's more than more strengthened

55:06

than is necessary to get through this

55:10

situation that you're going through now. So you've got this and there are

55:12

such a gnawing dark days frustrating,

55:20

but they're just, they're just dark

55:20

days that will pass, like and if you

55:26

ever feel like showing your story. Definitely share it.

55:29

Yeah. Tell us some great. Yeah.

55:32

Yeah. Amazing. Yeah.

55:35

Thank you for what you're doing.

55:37

Thank you

55:37

so much. Thank you. All right, we'll be in touch.

55:40

I appreciate you. You too.

55:42

Have a good night. Bye bye.