1:01

Let's talk about

1:01

what you're working on

1:01

which is, I think of it as beauty

1:05

for survivors currently, but

1:05

you have other things going on.

1:10

Yeah. Beauty for survivors is definitely.

1:14

What has my full focus right now, it's,

1:14

it's been there for at least five years

1:20

and I've been working on it, but now it's

1:20

pretty much full-time, which is exciting.

1:25

That is exciting. And it's just grown organically

1:26

out of my life story.

1:33

My work in the beauty industry,

1:33

which has been going on now for.

1:39

Almost a quarter of a century. I realized that the other day, because

1:41

I heard, I heard, I heard some sort of

1:46

radio broadcast in the car the other

1:46

day, and I heard a man talking about

1:51

his career and he said a quarter of a

1:51

century and I was like, Oh, 25 years.

1:55

And I thought, Oh my goodness,

1:55

wait, that's me too with makeup.

1:57

Yup. So, yes.

2:02

It's so beauty for survivors is,

2:02

is sort of the, the convergence of.

2:08

My life story. What my personal experience has been

2:10

interwoven with the beauty industry, the

2:16

fashion industry entertainment, film, TV,

2:16

to a certain degree, hearing the stories

2:24

of the people I've worked with as a makeup

2:24

artist and realizing that we all have.

2:31

Such similar experiences as survivors

2:31

and that there's crossover from the

2:37

abusive relationship, whatever it may have

2:37

looked like for me or for someone else

2:42

there's crossover between that and the

2:42

beauty industry or the fashion industry.

2:47

And obviously that's not to say that

2:47

it's all bad or anything like that,

2:52

but there's a lot of parallels. And once I started realizing that

2:54

there was so much crossover and that.

2:59

For some reason, makeup is, is

2:59

thought of differently than even hair.

3:06

When you're talking about the beauty

3:06

industry, I've said this a lot to

3:10

people it's it's just taken for

3:10

granted that you can walk into a

3:14

salon and you're going to talk about

3:14

your life with your hairstylist.

3:17

And it's sort of a safe, it's supposed

3:17

to be a safe space and people expect

3:21

that and people understand that. And people even encourage that.

3:25

And the emphasis on purchasing products.

3:29

Is not as much as it is in just the makeup

3:29

industry, but when you are working with

3:37

a makeup artist that really understands

3:37

you or you connect or someone like

3:41

myself, who's been in the fashion industry

3:41

and you ended up working with a lot of

3:44

the same models backstage before the

3:44

show, of course you start talking about

3:48

things and you get to know each other. And again, it's that safe space.

3:52

And so what I found was this giant.

3:57

Void for myself and for others,

3:57

for myself, it was as a survivor.

4:02

I looked everywhere online. This was going on 10 and 15 years

4:03

ago, even up to just five years

4:07

ago, when, when this project started

4:07

in earnest for me, I was looking

4:10

everywhere for any conversation

4:10

online where people were were.

4:18

Talking about the same things

4:18

that, that I wanted to talk about

4:20

and that I was going through. I knew that behind closed doors, because

4:21

I, I had had the conversations in person

4:26

with people, fellow survivors, about how

4:26

hard it is to be in front of a mirror,

4:30

how hard it is to even be consistent with

4:30

self care when it's difficult to even take

4:36

a shower, things like that brushing your

4:36

teeth can be a challenge, those things.

4:42

So I knew that I wasn't alone.

4:46

But I couldn't find anywhere online where

4:46

I could be encouraged by other people's

4:51

stories to know that I'm not alone. Like I needed a space

4:52

to revisit community.

4:56

Really. I needed a community. There was none.

4:59

I knew that there were

4:59

others like me out there.

5:02

And I started thinking about it that way.

5:04

And then the other side of the coin for

5:04

me was as much as I was looking for a

5:08

community around all of that, I knew

5:08

that in most traditional settings for

5:12

makeup, which is primarily retail, that's

5:12

really, I mean, unless you're blessed

5:18

enough to have some kind of amazing beauty

5:18

salon that that does have a makeup area,

5:22

most people experience makeup through

5:22

YouTube or through the retail setting.

5:29

Yeah, over and over and over and

5:29

over again, I was meeting survivors.

5:35

Nothing has happenstance and nothing

5:35

is coincidence, but invariably, if a

5:39

client came into a store where I was

5:39

working, it would always turn out that

5:44

they were a survivor of some kind. And so we'd start talking and I would

5:46

immediately be chastised by management

5:50

for taking too long with the client. Meanwhile, the client was almost in tears.

5:55

Because they felt so safe for

5:55

the first time and so heard

5:59

and so seen and so understood. And the whole door was opening right in

6:01

that moment to embrace makeup as a form

6:07

of self-expression after who knows how

6:07

long of being suppressed and silenced.

6:13

So these beautiful things

6:13

were happening and this birth

6:16

was happening in front of me. And it always got shut down

6:18

by retail management because

6:22

the retail setting is not. Designed to hold a customer in that space.

6:28

I wish that it would be, but I understand. So beauty for survivors sort of

6:31

crystallized for me around those

6:36

two things, both my experience,

6:36

and then seeing what was happening

6:39

to other people who were looking

6:39

for community in their own way.

6:42

And as a makeup artist, I kept

6:42

thinking, Oh, I'll just get

6:45

a job at a makeup counter. And that way I can talk to people and

6:47

I kept getting shut down and I kept

6:51

having limitations put on me and.

6:55

I just realized this is not

6:55

going to happen unless I create

6:58

what's missing in the industry. I'm going to have to just make it from

6:59

scratch because the community is out

7:04

there, but we have to be able to find

7:04

each other because there's not currently a

7:07

space that's set up to welcome all of us.

7:10

So, yeah. I love that.

7:14

I love

7:15

that. It's, it's something you

7:15

don't think about, right?

7:18

We don't think about beauty and care.

7:22

We hear a lot about self care

7:22

in the healing community, but.

7:29

No one really talks about what that

7:29

actually can mean and or what it can mean

7:34

for certain people, certain survivors

7:34

as well, because we do a lot of us.

7:39

We dissociate from our bodies.

7:42

Some of us don't recognize our faces.

7:46

I've been one of those people. Yeah.

7:49

And times when I have

7:49

been so separated from my body

7:51

that I didn't, I literally felt

7:51

like I was a separate, like I was

7:56

separate from my body. Me too.

7:59

I used to pinch myself when I

7:59

was a kid at night to like, kind of, I

8:03

would say my name over and over again,

8:03

like just to kind of bring myself back.

8:07

I don't know what I was doing technically,

8:07

but there are those times in our

8:10

lives, that we find ways to survive

8:10

and sometimes that's dissociating.

8:17

It is, and, and the

8:17

dissociation has a lot of different

8:23

ramifications, I would say. And.

8:28

I know that I've had

8:28

conversations with people.

8:30

Who've come up to me and said, Oh my

8:30

gosh, I never connected the dots, but.

8:36

You know, something happened to me at

8:36

university or, you know, they'll share an

8:40

element of the abuse that they've survived

8:40

and then say, I never thought about

8:45

it until you started talking about it.

8:47

I never realized that I stopped

8:47

wearing my favorite color.

8:52

After the abuse happened or I stopped

8:52

wearing my favorite lipstick and I

8:57

always loved that lipstick or I stopped

8:57

wearing makeup completely, or I stopped.

9:01

I know one person I spoke with not too

9:01

long ago, loved working out, taught in

9:08

different gyms, stopped going to the

9:08

gym, stopped working out, stopped going

9:13

anywhere, where she could be, where she,

9:13

where she might be visible in some way.

9:19

And. Makeup plays a huge part in that

9:20

splitting that goes on because the idea

9:30

of wearing any type of color, there's,

9:30

there's two things about wearing color.

9:34

That to me are, are really important

9:34

to address when, when makeup is in

9:40

the conversation in terms of survival

9:40

and how, how can make it be used in

9:44

terms of healing First of all color,

9:51

the biggest risks with color is that when

9:51

you wear it, you're going to be noticed.

9:57

And the other aspect that's

9:57

nerve-wracking for a survivor is that

10:02

color seems frivolous color seems.

10:06

Not necessary when you're

10:06

truly in survival mode.

10:10

And I'm speaking from my own

10:10

personal experience as well.

10:13

When you're truly in survival

10:13

mode, the thought of wearing a fun

10:16

color just seems almost hilarious.

10:20

Why would I do that? That's not necessary.

10:23

Is it food and shelter? No, you know, it does it, is it, is it

10:24

going to keep me breathing until tomorrow?

10:30

It's not as essential as water.

10:33

Let's say, you know, it's not like. Well fade pretty quickly if we don't

10:36

have food and water and adequate

10:40

shelter and for many, many years, and

10:40

thank God, that is where the emphasis

10:45

has been for survivors in terms of

10:45

support programs, even products, books

10:51

talks the whole thing with the me too

10:51

movement, which again, I'm grateful for

10:55

all of that, but what I've said over

10:55

and over to people is that's fantastic.

11:00

But life goes on for the survivor past.

11:03

The salacious details that make it

11:03

to the news life goes on for those

11:06

survivor past the big topics that

11:06

people see, because it's almost

11:11

a caricature of the abuse itself. It's so obvious.

11:15

Yeah. Life goes on for us. And the, the, the healing process

11:17

never ends for a survivor.

11:21

It's a lifelong journey. And there's a lot of hope in that.

11:26

There's a lot of trepidation

11:26

in that and that's where.

11:31

I see the things that are deemed

11:31

non-essential music, art, color, beauty.

11:39

Those are the things that

11:39

have saved my life past.

11:44

Like I was talking about the

11:44

absolute essential things, has the

11:48

essentials of food and water and a

11:48

safe place to go to sleep at night.

11:52

It's, it's truly beauty that

11:52

saved my life because the days

11:55

when I was struggling with.

11:58

Being suicidal. It was seeing a flower or

12:00

seen something in nature.

12:04

And it was what, what always struck me.

12:07

And this might seem a little simplistic

12:07

to others, but for me it was everything I

12:12

noticed the outrageous colors of things.

12:15

Look at nature. There's just, I remember I photographed

12:16

a flower when I was in Italy.

12:20

I didn't use a flash. I didn't use a filter and the

12:22

image because of the sun hitting

12:25

the flower, it looked neon. Yeah.

12:28

And I just remember staring at

12:28

that for the longest time and

12:31

thinking, look at the color.

12:34

Why does that even exist? What is the purpose of this color?

12:38

If not, to evoke an emotion and bring in

12:38

abundance to an otherwise very limited

12:50

way of living, if that makes sense.

12:53

Yeah. So color color works in,

12:53

in so many different ways.

12:57

And of course there's a scientific

12:57

angle, which I'm, I'm doing

12:59

a lot around that right now. And I'm going to be publishing

13:01

some work around this as well.

13:05

And I'm also working on some makeup

13:05

tutorials around color as, as a

13:11

healing element from scientific

13:11

point of view because of the

13:14

frequencies that colors have. So there is all of that, but.

13:20

You, you don't have to have a degree

13:20

in science to know that that color

13:24

can, can change everything true.

13:27

So it's just, it's a, it's a tremendous

13:27

ally in the form of makeup because,

13:37

and I, I guess why I get so excited

13:37

about makeup in particular is yes, I'm

13:41

an artist and I love doing makeup as a

13:41

makeup artist, but I love makeup because.

13:47

Let's say you don't

13:47

really have your own home.

13:50

Let's say you are still living

13:50

in a more transitory way.

13:55

Maybe you haven't fully transitioned

13:55

or grown into having your own place

13:59

and having all of your own things. So you can't pick out a can of paint

14:02

and redecorate your whole house.

14:07

You can't get into the full

14:07

expression of truly designing

14:12

your own aesthetic all around you. 360 degrees.

14:16

What you can do is go to the drug store

14:16

and pick out a lipstick or nail Polish.

14:21

Like I was, I was just sharing with you

14:21

the other day about I've been getting

14:25

so upset because I can't find a specific

14:25

color of blue that just from the inside,

14:31

I couldn't find it in any clothing. So I went and I found it in a nail

14:32

Polish color, and it just made me

14:36

so happy and I don't even have to

14:36

be wearing it just to see it in

14:40

the little bottle on my nightstand.

14:43

Is a constant reminder to me that,

14:43

Hey, that's my favorite color.

14:47

And I, I had the courage to go find

14:47

it and it's there and I'm going to be

14:51

making things with it and finding ways to

14:51

incorporate that color back into my life.

14:59

So the reason that I'm so passionate

14:59

about makeup in particular as a

15:04

tool for healing is because of the

15:04

overall accessibility of it as a tool.

15:13

Now granted there's, I'm not

15:13

discounting the fact that there is

15:17

also a lot of inaccessibility, which

15:17

is something I want to address.

15:21

As beauty for survivors grows by

15:21

getting more makeup brands involved

15:26

in actually donating products to

15:26

domestic shelters to survivors who are

15:34

in need and are transitioning out of.

15:37

Shelters into getting jobs again

15:37

and all of those different things.

15:40

So there's a lot of different aspects of

15:40

this, but in general, the accessibility

15:45

of makeup is what makes me so excited. And it's also very non-committal.

15:48

You can wash it off. Yeah. So you can experience the

15:50

benefits of that time.

15:52

You're taking for yourself, playing

15:52

with the colors and you, you don't

15:56

have to put it on for any other purpose

15:56

than just playing with the colors.

16:02

And then you can take it off. So it's very safe in that aspect as well.

16:08

I think it allows for a lot of privacy

16:08

and a lot of personal exploration

16:12

and you don't have to share it

16:12

with anybody unless you want to.

16:17

Yeah.

16:17

I love that. I think sometimes we have this funny view

16:18

of the beauty industry in general, right?

16:23

It's it's either, Oh, I'm

16:23

doing a way with that.

16:27

You know, aesthetics are not important.

16:30

That kind of thing just in general. And then sometimes we, we also look at

16:32

the beauty industry and think, well,

16:35

that's, that's for the rich and famous

16:35

and you know, the people that are

16:41

always in front of people, like we just

16:41

have these different viewpoints of it

16:46

and, and it takes on so many different

16:46

connotations, but it literally is.

16:51

I mean, just like I slapped on some red

16:51

lipstick as I was logging into zoom,

16:56

I,

16:57

it does. It just makes you feel. It does something to you, you

17:01

know, not, not just the color,

17:05

but it's also like, you know, it

17:05

just makes you feel put together.

17:09

And so much of the time we are just

17:09

walking around as survivors, just feeling

17:15

like we're faking it till we make it. And like, well, I'm just

17:17

going to hold myself together.

17:20

But there is that aspect of when

17:20

you kind of maybe make it a little

17:23

bit of a ritual or something

17:23

special, it's like, okay, this is.

17:27

No, this is me like, this

17:27

is, this is part of me.

17:30

This is part of my expression. This is part of who I am, whether

17:31

I like to wear, you know, blue

17:35

lipstick or red lipstick or, you know,

17:35

orange eye shadow or whatever it is.

17:42

It's just a way to really

17:42

connect with yourself.

17:45

And I think in general, the whole thing

17:45

needs to shift the viewpoint of it.

17:49

Like, no, we don't need

17:49

makeup to be "of value."

17:56

But makeup is an expression of

17:56

ourselves and we're valuable and

17:59

our expression of ourselves is

18:01

valuable. Absolutely.

18:04

Yeah. And I also love to use the analogy

18:04

of scents like perfumes and music.

18:12

I think we can all relate to how.

18:16

You can smell a perfume or, or a

18:16

familiar scent, and it immediately

18:21

takes you to a place and a memory. And the same with music, you can hear

18:23

a song that you only listened to in

18:27

high school or something like that. So our senses have a way

18:29

of taking us somewhere.

18:34

And to me, color has

18:34

a way of, of actually.

18:40

Bringing us to the present moment. Whereas these other sense senses of ours

18:42

can sometimes take us forwards in time.

18:48

And I feel that color brings, brings

18:48

you into the present moment, which is,

18:52

I think it can be so challenging for

18:52

survivors because the whole element

18:57

of survival is to not be present.

19:01

So there is such profound healing

19:01

in what you just described.

19:07

You took a moment. You put on some red lipstick and it's

19:08

the color, but it's more than the color

19:12

you stopped for that moment in time. And you were fully present with

19:14

yourself and your body and you were

19:17

paying attention to your body and

19:17

celebrating, you know, I even did a

19:25

little bit Lucille

19:25

ball and I'm just kidding.

19:27

I's sloppy.

19:29

And I you're

19:29

absolutely right when you.

19:36

Talk about the fact that there's so

19:36

many things that are sort of piled

19:40

on top in terms of the perception

19:40

or how makeup is viewed, or it's

19:44

only for these people or tmask, and

19:44

you're not authentic if you wear it.

19:50

I mean, there's all different viewpoints,

19:50

but I always say to that, objection,

19:56

let's say my response to that is have you

19:56

ever worked with a kindergarten class?

20:00

Have you ever been around a kindergartner?

20:03

Yeah. What child is not absolutely

20:03

enthusiastic about a box of crayons.

20:09

I've worked with kids

20:09

for many, many years and.

20:12

When they get past the age of six, it

20:12

can get a little iffy because that's

20:16

when personal passion start to emerge.

20:20

Some kids may not want to sit down at a

20:20

table and color, but prior to the age of

20:24

six, if you put a blank piece of paper and

20:24

some crayons in front of a child or some

20:29

markers or some colored Play-Doh, anything

20:29

with color and with creativity in the mix.

20:35

Everyone's face lights up and

20:35

there's, there's no filter.

20:39

There's no thought of a, well,

20:39

I shouldn't use that color

20:42

because it has this connotation. Or if I draw with a red crayon, I'm

20:43

being, you know, really bold and forward.

20:50

There's no, there there's no

20:50

narrative attached to the colors.

20:54

They're just colors. And it brings so much

20:55

joy to play with them.

20:59

And that's part of the work that I'm

20:59

I'm doing and will continue to do is

21:02

I want to restore that to survivors

21:02

restore the play element and restore the

21:11

right that we have is as human beings. It's a sovereign, right?

21:14

As far as I'm concerned to play with

21:14

color or, and benefit from color,

21:20

it doesn't belong to an industry.

21:23

It doesn't belong to a

21:23

certain tier of society.

21:27

It's not only for the rich and famous

21:27

or this, that, or the other person

21:30

it's it's color and it's a tool.

21:33

So I always say you're

21:33

not there for the makeup.

21:37

The makeup is there for you. You, my, my, my intention

21:39

is to teach people.

21:43

The language let's say of makeup,

21:43

the tools, just like you learn

21:47

the alphabet and grammar for a

21:47

language, then you decide what

21:51

you want to say in that language. It's totally up to you.

21:53

It's totally a personal expression. And that's what I want to empower.

21:58

Other survivors to do is let

21:58

me teach you the vocabulary.

22:01

Let me teach you how these things

22:01

work together in a grammatical sense

22:04

using, you know, the language analogy. Yeah, let me, let me teach you how this

22:07

works and then you, you say whatever it

22:12

is that you want to say, we want to have

22:12

a totally blank face and a bright lip.

22:17

Awesome. As long as what you are saying

22:18

about yourself is authentic,

22:23

that's all that matters. If you don't want to

22:24

wear anything fantastic. If you want to play

22:26

with it and take it off. And no one has any idea that you

22:28

have a whole drawer full of makeup

22:31

at your house that you play with. It's not for other people it's for you.

22:39

Yeah. So yeah, I'm very in

22:39

Case couldn't pass on it.

22:44

Very passionate about this. Yes, because it always, it always

22:45

has made me very angry when.

22:51

I would hear people saying things, Oh,

22:51

well, that person can't wear that because

22:55

of this or this person can't wear this.

22:58

There's all of these narratives. And specifically around the, the

23:00

idea of anyone who identifies as

23:07

male or masculine in some way that

23:07

somehow makeup can't be an expression.

23:12

Yeah. Well, I take total issue with

23:13

that because that's so limited

23:17

in terms of a historical, even

23:17

a historical perspective, right?

23:20

All you have to do is some research

23:20

to see how much makeup historically

23:25

was always a part of male expression.

23:29

It's not just this tiny little box

23:29

that it's been created to be in.

23:34

Let's say the 18th, 19th, 20th,

23:34

like the most recent centuries that,

23:38

that most people are drawing from. So I'm, I'm really looking to completely

23:40

shatter all of those preconceived notions

23:47

and give the crayon box back to people.

23:52

Yes, yes. Yeah.

23:55

It's also play and. It's so important, especially as

23:58

people who are survivors, you know,

24:02

you were mentioning people who end

24:02

up in the news and like what the

24:04

aftermath of the hype goes away. And I think about to the people

24:06

sometimes I think, and I'm not

24:10

downplaying any one's experience. Sometimes I think the people who

24:12

don't come forward are the people

24:15

who have been in trauma the longest.

24:18

Yeah,

24:21

it does take people. Who've been traumatized

24:22

since early childhood.

24:27

A lot more someone like that probably

24:27

isn't going to come forward, you

24:31

know, and it's probably going to

24:31

take them a little bit longer to

24:35

start to connect with themselves.

24:38

Absolutely.

24:41

Yeah, it would just, I think

24:41

about that things that end up in the

24:44

news and all of that stuff that's,

24:44

it's just the tip of the iceberg,

24:49

you know, and,

24:49

and like I said, it's.

24:56

It's a double-edged sword because it's

24:56

awesome that the conversation can be had

25:02

in a more open way on social media, for

25:02

example, because I'll just illustrate

25:08

the fact that five, five years ago, I was

25:08

already working on beauty first survivors.

25:13

Right. And I had a website and published

25:13

my ebook about the parallels

25:19

between beauty and an abusive.

25:22

Relationships, the beauty industry,

25:22

I should say beauty industry

25:24

and abusive relationships. And I was moving forward with it

25:26

and got so much backlash and so much

25:30

heat and some, even some threats.

25:34

And it was, it's an excellent illustration

25:34

of the fact that it wasn't time yet.

25:43

And I, I wanted to make

25:43

sure that I had my strategy.

25:48

Nailed down because at the time I was

25:48

just kind of putting stuff out and I

25:51

hadn't really thought about it a lot. I was like, Oh, I just

25:53

want to talk about this. So I'm going to blog about

25:54

it, make some videos about it.

25:58

And I realized very quickly that the,

26:03

the resistance that is so entrenched.

26:07

In the collective consciousness is how I

26:07

will put it, the resistance to bringing

26:14

these things to the light and actually

26:14

acknowledging what people's experiences

26:19

have been, which is a hot topic right

26:19

now in a lot of different areas,

26:22

acknowledging that many, many, many, many,

26:22

many people have suffered enormously.

26:31

Great violence. Great disadvantage, great abuse.

26:37

Typically people don't want to hear about that. Like it doesn't, it doesn't

26:39

make anyone feel great.

26:42

So most people, unless they're really

26:42

seeking to understand and grow, most

26:46

people are not going to be interested in. So five years ago there was

26:48

still this, this very deeply

26:53

entrenched element of like, Oh,

26:53

we don't want to hear about that.

26:55

And don't bring that up because you'll be rocking. And then, then.

27:01

There was this sort of kindling and the

27:01

match to the, you know, that, that just

27:06

ignited everything with hashtag me too.

27:09

And I'm very grateful for that

27:09

because it has helped to forge,

27:14

let's say a pathway through this

27:14

resistance, but your apps, right?

27:18

Because what actually comes to the

27:18

surface, what emerges in social media?

27:24

Is barely the tip of the iceberg.

27:26

And usually what makes it into the

27:26

biggest headlines are the most, I would

27:34

say Hollywood worthy headlines that

27:34

grab people in another way, because

27:42

it's grabbing on that shock value.

27:45

And so yes, you're, you're absolutely

27:45

right because no one in their right mind

27:49

as a survivor, especially someone who

27:49

has been abused since early childhood.

27:54

No one wants that kind of attention

27:54

or spotlight put on their experience.

28:00

I think what's, what's deeply desired is

28:06

and an awareness in

28:06

society and a level of.

28:16

I would, I would say kindness

28:16

in the sense that services are

28:20

designed with survivors in mind.

28:23

We've talked about this before, but

28:23

learning how to take care of your

28:27

finances after it's been decimated

28:27

by an abuser, how do you invest?

28:33

How do you become a homeowner?

28:35

How do you do anything after your

28:35

entire life has been destroyed?

28:40

What, what makeup brands are out there

28:40

right now who are specifically cultivating

28:47

a conversation around, Hey, we know it's

28:47

tough to stand in front of the mirror.

28:51

We're here to help you. We're here to serve.

28:54

We're not trying to push a product

28:54

on you and tell you that you have

28:57

to live up to a certain image. We're here to help you

28:59

reclaim your narrative.

29:03

And strip it of all of the trash that

29:03

was dumped on you by an abuser or

29:08

maybe many abusers were here for you.

29:12

That I think is what is, is I

29:12

I'm, I'm speaking for myself.

29:16

So I'm certainly not trying

29:16

to speak for everyone, but.

29:22

I don't think that any survivor wakes

29:22

up on any given day and thinks, Oh,

29:25

I want to be the center of attention. It's usually quite the opposite.

29:29

I've experienced this as well. And again, it's, it's just

29:31

lack of it's lack of awareness.

29:34

It's lack of knowledge. And part of, part of my role

29:35

with BD for survivors is.

29:40

Serving survivors, but also serving

29:40

allies would in terms of education.

29:44

So a lot of the lack of awareness

29:44

is not necessarily anybody's fault.

29:48

It's just lack of access to information,

29:48

lack, lack of the existence of

29:52

this kind of a dialogue out in the

29:52

open so that people who want to

29:56

help and support can understand. But yeah, I, I it's, there's so much that.

30:07

I see super imposed on survivors

30:07

because people don't know any better.

30:11

And one of the biggest things I've seen

30:11

is whether people want to say it or not.

30:17

There's an attitude of kind of

30:17

your damaged goods, like, Oh, you

30:22

know, Oh my God, I'm so sorry.

30:25

And I'm not knocking any of

30:25

it, but it's like people.

30:30

The only education around survivors

30:30

in a public arena has been around

30:35

the severity of their homeless.

30:39

Severely injured were

30:39

beaten, have no money.

30:44

Yeah. Lost their family, all kinds of things.

30:50

And those are all legitimate

30:50

elements of a survivor's story.

30:54

But my point is that. It's not helping me to have somebody

30:56

kind of Pat me on the head and go,

31:00

Oh, they're there, you know, and sort

31:00

of keep me in that victim box because

31:04

they don't know how else to see me. So I've had, I've had a lot,

31:06

well, I shouldn't say a lot.

31:10

I've had well-meaning individuals say

31:10

to me, well, why aren't you, why isn't,

31:16

why aren't you making this a nonprofit?

31:18

Why aren't you just turning? Why isn't this a charity?

31:22

And I said, because. Because the, the

31:28

fibers deserve more than charity.

31:33

They do. I do. Everyone does.

31:35

And I'm not knocking charity, but

31:35

do you know the healing that comes.

31:41

From having rebuilt your finances

31:41

and having money in your pocket.

31:45

And you think I am going to go

31:45

out today and I'm going to go

31:49

to a salon or I'm going to go to

31:49

the grocery store or you alter.

31:55

And I, me Rafaela who used to have no

31:55

choice who used to have no authority

32:03

who used to have no sovereignty. Who had nothing to her name.

32:08

I get to go pick what's right for me.

32:10

And I get to put my own

32:10

money down for that.

32:12

Like I have chills right now. The empowerment aspect of this is what

32:14

people are missing out on survivors.

32:20

Survivors are amazing

32:20

because they've survived.

32:23

But the whole rest of the arc of

32:23

everyone's story is pastor that.

32:29

And I'm talking about I'm

32:29

here for survivors to help

32:33

on the other side of the arc. Where even if you are empowered,

32:35

you're, there's an aspect of survival

32:41

that impacts your decision-making.

32:44

There needs to be pieces in

32:44

the middle to help you get

32:47

from absolute being destitute.

32:51

Let's say there needs to be something

32:51

in the middle ground that's after

32:56

you get out of a shelter after you

32:56

have been able to get yourself food.

33:03

And have, you know, gotten a different

33:03

job, all of these different things.

33:08

Like I said, that the most, the most

33:08

key elements there needs to be things

33:12

after that, that are crafted by

33:12

and for survivors because our lives

33:16

continue, our needs continue to achieve.

33:19

And I think that right now, the

33:19

assumption is, well, just go to

33:23

therapy, go to therapy, and I'm not

33:23

knocking therapy, but this is this.

33:30

This is. Part of the, one of the core values

33:32

of beauty for survivors is that

33:37

abuse is an embodied experience.

33:40

It affects everything. Your, your, your mind is altered.

33:45

You come out altered,

33:45

your body is affected.

33:48

A lot of us are in pain or sick.

33:52

Some of us land in the hospital and are

33:52

bedridden for years that if I know I

33:55

was yep.

33:57

Life back together

33:57

from that place feels

34:00

impossible. It does. And people have to take into

34:02

consideration that your, your brain

34:08

and your nervous system learned the

34:08

abuse through embodied experiences.

34:16

Something in the 3d realm came

34:16

crashing into your world and brought

34:23

everything to a screeching halt. It was a 3d experience.

34:27

And so I'm, I'm grateful.

34:29

Again, I I'm always seeking to

34:29

emphasize as much as possible

34:34

that I am not ungrateful. I'm not knocking any of the other

34:35

things that exist, that, that I've

34:39

already touched on therapy, shelters.

34:41

All of those are needed. There's a missing component.

34:47

I'm personally, very

34:47

passionate about makeup.

34:49

There's lots of possibilities

34:49

of there's lots of other things.

34:52

And I hope that part of the effect of

34:52

beauty for survivors is that people

34:55

start to realize, wait a second,

34:55

healing is not just going in and talking

35:02

about what happened to me or, or.

35:05

Thinking thinking, thinking, thinking,

35:05

thinking there is a lot of work that

35:09

needs to be done in your mind, but

35:09

there is a whole missing element

35:14

where your body physically needs new

35:14

3d information to reprogram itself.

35:23

And part of the power I'm speaking

35:23

from how powerful makeup and skincare

35:29

and self care has been for me. Yeah. It never ceases to be powerful and healing

35:32

for me when I actually say no, I'm not

35:38

going to ignore the fact that I'm in a

35:38

body today, I'm going to take 30 minutes

35:44

and I'm going to put on a mask or use

35:44

a serum and let it, you know, take 30

35:51

minutes to acknowledge that I'm in a body.

35:55

And that that's important. And I don't have to be.

35:59

Only in my brain or out there

35:59

somewhere to another stratosphere.

36:03

It brings me back into the

36:03

present moment and it's giving

36:05

me new physical, 3d information.

36:10

Our brains are always, always taking in

36:10

information and looking for patterns and

36:17

looking for, looking for dots to connect

36:22

to a whole new meaning. Yeah, it's not just about, I hear some

36:24

people poo poo, the whole idea of self

36:27

care being aesthetic, or, but it needs

36:27

to be at times it needs to be, we need to

36:32

know that we're taking care of ourselves.

36:34

Like I have the hardest time giving my,

36:34

I need to give myself a pedicure all like

36:39

I have the most calories.

36:43

Okay. Somewhere I learned, I don't know how,

36:43

but like my feet just aren't important.

36:47

Right. They're in my shoes most of the time.

36:51

Well, not most of the time, but

36:51

not a summer, but I don't know.

36:55

It's, it's, it's like one of those things

36:55

you gotta work through, but we have to

36:59

learn to care for ourselves in that way,

36:59

because it, it really does translate

37:04

into all the other areas of our, our

37:04

money mindsets, our physical, like health

37:09

and, and pain levels and all of that.

37:12

And. Yeah, relationships the way

37:13

we think about everything.

37:16

Yeah. It really helps to, like I said,

37:16

yeah, just give your brain something

37:22

new to work with, because if you

37:22

were, let's say abused as a child

37:27

in some way, all the messages you

37:27

received as a little kid where you're

37:32

worthless, your body is, is worthless.

37:36

You don't deserve care. You don't deserve tenderness.

37:40

You don't deserve time. Yeah. And how powerful is it to be able to

37:42

rewrite that script as an adult and

37:46

choose to take the time and to say to

37:46

your body, you matter, and to say to

37:52

your body, you are worthy of tenderness. You are worthy of care,

37:54

you are worthy of kindness.

37:58

You're worthy of color.

38:02

Yeah. All of these things. So it is extremely powerful because.

38:08

And this is, this is going too far

38:08

off topic for today, probably, but

38:12

the neuro-plasticity like the, the,

38:12

the, we were just talking about this

38:18

the other day, the body and the mind

38:18

are wired to regenerate and to heal

38:23

your body wants to be there for you.

38:25

Your mind wants to be there

38:25

for you on all four cylinders.

38:28

And all it takes is, is giving

38:28

yourself the time and choosing to.

38:35

Give yourself the support that's

38:35

necessary and I'm not at all.

38:39

And I'm not insinuating that that is easy.

38:42

I'm living proof that it is not,

38:42

but it is absolutely worth it.

38:47

So I love

38:49

that. Yeah, it is. I was thinking too, as you

38:51

were talking about how, when.

38:55

Where kids, especially coming from

38:55

families where it was different things.

38:58

Some of us weren't allowed

38:58

to wear makeup at all.

39:01

Like that was the way my mother grew up.

39:03

She wasn't allowed to wear makeup

39:03

and she went way, way overboard.

39:06

Most of my life was heavy, heavy makeup,

39:06

heavy on the hair, just big care.

39:11

And It was like living with a

39:14

televangelist away or something, but

39:21

And then. So makeup in my home, it was

39:22

almost expected, but it was

39:28

also like a very prescribed way.

39:31

And so I've had to little

39:31

by little kind of take.

39:33

I remember I plucked my eyebrows, so like

39:33

I thought my eyes were too close together.

39:37

Cause I was always being told

39:37

my eyes were too close together.

39:40

So I thought like I pluck my eyebrows,

39:40

like all the way back here thinking

39:45

it was going to like widen the space. And I look back at pictures,

39:47

I'm like, That looks terrible.

39:50

What was I doing? But that was in my head, you know, and

39:52

we don't have, we feel like we just don't

39:58

have ownership of our, our bodies, whether

39:58

we were wearing makeup or not wearing

40:02

makeup makeup for me now, as a way to

40:02

kind of be like, Oh, I'm going to work.

40:06

I'm going to pop on some red lipstick. I'm going to be, I'm not going

40:08

to do it the way that it was

40:10

prescribed for me, you know?

40:13

And also I'm going to like,

40:13

See myself for myself.

40:18

No, absolutely. That's it's, it's very much touching on

40:20

again, the heart and soul of what beauty

40:30

for survivors is because there are also

40:30

there's different dimensions to survival.

40:36

There's not just physical survival.

40:39

There's. Spiritual and mental survival there's

40:40

coming out of sort of cult, you know,

40:47

environments where, again, everything

40:47

about who you are identity is, is

40:55

challenged from, from one into the other.

40:59

So,

41:01

and a lot of it has

41:01

to do with sexuality too.

41:05

You know, makeup is associated with your

41:07

sexuality. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's actually what I

41:09

was, what I was just about to say

41:11

is that for me, identity, all of

41:11

these things are so intertwined.

41:16

And again, since beauty for survivors is

41:16

a reflection of my own personal journey,

41:21

as well as the, the, the gaps that

41:21

I'm seeing in the industry everywhere.

41:25

I do see that the, the LGBTQ plus the

41:25

queer community of which I'm a part.

41:33

The queer community is severely

41:33

underserved as well from, from

41:38

the aspect of beauty and how to

41:38

express yourself authentically.

41:42

And unfortunately there's a lot,

41:42

let's say if you grew up like in any

41:49

similar way to how I grew up, where is

41:49

just religion itself is, is a God and

41:57

everything about who you are, is seen as.

42:02

A crime basically. It's, it's just, I mean,

42:03

there's all of these layers,

42:06

it's shameful, it's a crime,

42:08

right. Your core identity, but then add

42:09

onto that, that you want to play with

42:14

makeup or express yourself in some way. And that's also a huge, no fly zone.

42:20

And so that's also a really big

42:20

element of beauty for survivors is

42:26

again, just restoring the right. To individuals to reclaim the narrative

42:29

of their identity for themselves and

42:36

to feel freedom in expressing that.

42:38

And it does, it is a journey. It's not something that happens overnight.

42:41

There's a lot of mindset work and the

42:41

mindset work and working on my belief

42:47

system and reclaiming my own personal

42:47

story and giving myself permission

42:55

to then express it through how I'm

42:55

choosing to take care of myself.

42:58

And I know there's a

42:58

lot of really popular.

43:04

Sort of politically correct things that

43:04

get tossed around a lot on social media.

43:08

And I'm not, again, I'm not knocking

43:08

that because we live in an era.

43:12

That's just incredible in terms of the

43:12

overall openness to talk about things,

43:18

but there's not a lot of services,

43:18

if any, for For the queer community.

43:26

Yeah. For the trans community.

43:29

Yeah. How, how do you, how do you identify and

43:30

how do you want to show up and how can

43:35

I as a makeup artist or makeup brand,

43:35

as a makeup artist serve you by teaching

43:43

you how to use all of these different

43:43

products to say what you want to say.

43:48

I don't see that really

43:48

happening anywhere.

43:50

And that's. That's a huge part of what I want to do

43:52

with beauty for survivors is really create

43:58

an inclusive, safe arena online, because

43:58

I know for a lot of people it's safer to

44:05

be online than in-person sometimes, but to

44:05

create a safe environment where people can

44:13

find the community that I was looking for.

44:16

For so many years, because I know, I

44:16

just know that I'm not alone in this.

44:21

Absolutely not alone because

44:21

I've had the conversations.

44:24

It's just time to actually create the

44:24

space for everyone to come together online

44:29

and feel validated and feel honored and

44:29

encouraged in their personal journey.

44:38

Yeah. So true. For some reason when you were talking

44:39

about that, it made me think of Just the

44:45

idea that makeup a lot of times is seen

44:45

as something that we do to like attract

44:53

right to attract either the opposite sex

44:53

to us or different love interests to us.

45:01

I feel like with the sexuality thing

45:01

it doesn't have to be that way either.

45:06

It can just be for you.

45:08

Absolutely. And I, I, I do know that depending on.

45:15

How much someone was, or was not living

45:15

in alignment with their true self.

45:19

Let's say there is a certain season

45:19

of detox that typically you can shed

45:26

that old skin and, and know that you're

45:26

showing up as authentically yourself.

45:31

And I can see

45:32

that, like that makes sense. It's just, I can see how also that

45:33

shift over is going to feel like, well,

45:38

I'm just not going to do this anymore.

45:42

Definitely. Again, there's, there's an absence in, in

45:44

the industry overall and in social media,

45:50

there's just an add an absence of balance.

45:52

That's really all that it is. There's an absence of balance

45:53

when it comes to knowing that

46:05

other things are there for you. And you're not there to serve these

46:07

other things, whether it's a perception

46:11

of beauty or someone's perception

46:11

of, you know religion when you were

46:19

talking about the fact that there's

46:19

these ideas about makeup, whether

46:23

people like it or not, a lot of them

46:23

come from severe MIS misinterpretations

46:28

of the Bible with the verses about.

46:32

You know, there's cherry pick verses

46:32

and extrapolate them and distort them

46:38

to mean something that has nothing

46:38

to do with the original intent.

46:42

I know this is slightly off topic,

46:42

but no, not really, but it's, it's

46:45

also, it is part of my it's part

46:45

of my personal backstory, because

46:49

I grew up in that environment. I think people can relate to that.

46:53

It was like so bad if you were.

46:57

You know, if you were fetching in any

46:57

way, shape or form, but somehow you were

47:00

supposed to be super fetching for a man.

47:04

You were supposed to walk this line

47:04

of, well, I'm not attractive, but I'm

47:06

supposed to be attractive for him down.

47:09

And I'm supposed to be, you know

47:09

a service station basically for

47:13

anybody to service themselves.

47:18

But God forbid that there'd be

47:18

any level of attractiveness.

47:21

That would have anything to do with

47:21

me having autonomy and actually

47:24

choosing to enhance my appearance

47:24

in any way, shape or form.

47:28

And the irony about that is it runs

47:28

totally contrary to who God describes

47:33

himself to be, which is attractive.

47:38

There are so many verses

47:38

about, about God himself.

47:44

Wooing us and being attractive

47:44

and being irresistible.

47:48

And it's it's again, look at nature.

47:51

Why the heck are flowers that just

47:51

make everyone Swoon because they're

47:55

so stunning, like beauty is, is

47:55

to me a reflection of who God is.

48:00

And so to completely shut up beauty and

48:00

say, well, you can't wear this color.

48:03

You can't wear that color. You can't do this. You can't do that.

48:07

At the end of the day. For me, you're not limiting me.

48:09

You're, you're limiting

48:09

the fullest expression of.

48:12

Of God, you're limiting the fullest

48:12

expression of love that there

48:15

can be by saying what you can't

48:15

do this, and you can't do that.

48:18

And you can't, there can't

48:18

be an attention put on you.

48:21

It changed my life. When I realized that God's full

48:22

attention is on me and there's nothing

48:26

wrong with having his full attention.

48:29

And if I have, or her full attention

48:29

there's nothing wrong with attention.

48:37

And I, I grew up thinking that any

48:37

attention whatsoever meant that

48:41

I was a horrible, horrible child. I was, I was told as much.

48:45

Yeah. So absolutely.

48:47

There's all of these religious and

48:47

pop culture narratives that people

48:56

just love to run into the ground. You see it in movies, you

48:57

see it in social media.

49:01

No, I just want to say to

49:01

everybody, you know what?

49:03

Take five down is just color.

49:09

It's just color. And it's very powerful, but it's, it's

49:10

very dangerous to start using it as a

49:19

way to be harmful towards someone else.

49:23

Just because you grew up

49:23

with a different cultural.

49:28

Perspectives. Yeah,

49:30

I see it everywhere. I mean, there are times when, you

49:31

know, I'm around older generations or

49:36

different people and I, I, over the last

49:36

10 years or so, I've stopped caring.

49:42

I've stopped caring if I'm wearing

49:42

too little, if I'm wearing too

49:45

much, like I just don't care. What is to anything.

49:50

You know, and it's so

49:50

funny how people are.

49:53

They're like, Oh, well

49:53

you look very comfortable.

49:57

Like they try to, it's like,

49:57

I am, I feel like I'm wearing

50:02

what I'm comfortable with. Like, I don't

50:06

care. I will say. And I've said this, you'll

50:08

hear me say quite a bit.

50:12

There is an element of.

50:16

Tunnel vision, primarily in the

50:16

United States where there's elements

50:22

of American culture that are really

50:22

only exist in the United States.

50:28

And it's not so much like that. In other areas.

50:32

I remember, I mean, again, so this, this

50:32

is, this influences me in a profound way.

50:36

When I, in my personal approach to makeup,

50:36

because I grew up overseas, I grew up

50:40

in Europe and Europe is home to me.

50:43

France is where I discovered my

50:43

love for the fashion industry.

50:48

And Biddy itself is.

50:51

Not turned into a commodity so much in

50:51

France and in Europe, but I can speak

50:57

primarily about France because that's

50:57

where I have the most experience.

50:59

Beauty is not turned into the thing

50:59

that it is in the United States,

51:06

where it's both the unattainable

51:06

image and the, the object that's

51:11

used to clobber you over the head. And that's what I talk

51:12

a lot about in my book. Told me to read by the way So there,

51:17

there are a lot of things that are

51:22

unique to the history of the United

51:22

States, sort of the, the, the prudishness

51:27

and the antibody narrative and the

51:27

very severe religious undercurrent,

51:38

or even cultish undercurrents.

51:41

Well,

51:41

it's our fault. If a man is lusting after us, right?

51:45

I mean, that's what I was.

51:47

That's how I was raised. Well, my response to that has

51:48

always been well, if that's the

51:50

case, then every single doctor. Yeah, clearly they don't,

51:53

which means, Oh, wow.

51:57

You mean then they actually do

51:57

have self control and they are able

52:01

to put themselves in a different

52:01

place when they're dealing with

52:05

female or female identifying or

52:05

any, any identifying patient.

52:09

I've had men from

52:09

the time I was 12 years old,

52:09

like shamed me for wearing like Kula

52:13

shorts or, I mean, they were long and

52:13

like, how dare you show your legs?

52:18

I'm a leg man. Oh my God.

52:21

Okay. Yes, I was sorry.

52:24

Well, yeah, and I mean, there's, there's,

52:24

there's, there's things that are unique

52:29

to American culture and that's not at

52:29

all to say that judgment is not passed in

52:33

ways, in different ways around the world.

52:36

Italy still has tremendous

52:36

issues because it wants women

52:39

to be barefoot in the kitchen. And it was only recently it's only been.

52:43

Recently that women have been have started

52:43

to be recognized as authors in Italy.

52:51

It's been primarily men

52:51

extolled as authors in Italy.

52:55

And I read something. Yeah. Recently that it's only been within

52:56

the past year or so that a female

53:00

author has broken records and sort

53:00

of risen up to the level that that

53:05

men are, are held on this pedestal.

53:08

So. It's not at all to say that

53:09

the U S is the only area where

53:12

these types of issues exist. What I will say though, because this

53:14

is what always kind of kills me off the

53:19

edge from, from getting really upset,

53:19

because it is really frustrating.

53:23

It is, it is difficult when you

53:23

have people coming at you with

53:26

these, you know, with this mission.

53:29

It seems to just, yeah.

53:31

Tell you what you can and can't do, or how

53:31

you can and kittens to express yourself.

53:35

So for me, it's very centering and

53:35

very grounded and very restorative

53:40

to always remind myself that again. And this, this is my personal view based

53:42

on my experience in my personal journey.

53:48

I truly believe that what's actually

53:48

going on in all of these different

53:51

situations as that people are

53:51

ultimately afraid of expressions of.

53:59

Beauty and love and divinity.

54:03

People are afraid of what they

54:03

don't know and understand.

54:07

And when, when the love of God is fully

54:07

expressed, It brings life to people.

54:18

It also brings fear to other

54:18

people who don't have any interest

54:23

in living an abundant life. And I truly believe that there's an

54:25

element of beauty that because it is

54:32

an aspect of, of the heart of God.

54:34

There's an aspect of it

54:34

that is not controllable.

54:38

And therefore it's seen as dangerous.

54:40

So guess what? People are gonna try to control it.

54:43

People are going to try to subjugate

54:43

others either with it or without it.

54:49

And that's why it's so important to me to

54:49

restore the sovereignty, to individuals

54:57

that get your God given right, to be

54:57

an expression of the beauty of God.

55:01

We are reflection of, of him and her

55:01

whatever pronoun someone wants to use.

55:10

W we are, we're walking

55:10

reflections of the heart of God.

55:13

And, and again, when I look at

55:13

nature, it's just undeniable.

55:18

It's excessive the beauty around in

55:18

the world, the different animals, the

55:23

stars, the trees, the flowers, I mean,

55:23

it's, it's just, it is excessive.

55:29

And then intelligence in a heart

55:29

behind that kind of excessive beauty

55:33

tells me a lot about who I am.

55:37

Who I am and who I can become.

55:39

And that beauty again, beauty

55:39

isn't is my birthright.

55:44

No, it does, you know, I get,

55:44

I get people who say, Oh, well,

55:47

if you know what, if I'm running

55:47

to makeup, that's totally fine.

55:51

What you're passionate about,

55:51

find what lights you up.

55:53

Find expression of beauty

55:53

that, that gives you oxygen.

55:57

Maybe it's a particular instrument that

55:57

you love to hear someone playing or that

56:02

you want to learn to play, or it's a

56:02

particular song or a band or a group.

56:06

Or maybe it's an element of creativity

56:06

that you have barely begun to discover,

56:11

but you really like it then go for it.

56:13

Anyone's anyone's exploration of

56:13

creativity is absolutely destined to

56:19

be opposed at some point by someone.

56:23

It just is because again, the art,

56:23

the creativity that's like to me,

56:28

the heartbeat of God and it's wild.

56:33

And ultimately cannot be put into a box.

56:35

And that scares people who basically

56:35

depend on everything being put into a box.

56:42

So if you happen to show up on

56:42

someone's radar, who has their

56:46

whole life arranged around, nothing

56:46

must disturb me and nothing.

56:50

Nothing must bother me. And nothing has caused

56:51

me to rethink anything.

56:54

Guess what? You're going to get an

56:55

earful from that person.

56:57

They're going to tell you exactly what. They think is wrong with you because

56:59

you are challenging their worldview

57:05

and it literally can be something as

57:05

simple as culottes shorts or color hair.

57:10

Yeah. Yeah. And it was, I mean, when you're 12

57:11

and already living with people that

57:15

believe that way anyway, it's like,

57:15

okay, but the older you get and the

57:22

more I think you heal the less you care.

57:25

And like, well, that's not a me problem.

57:28

That's a you problem. And

57:31

I'm not responsible for your

57:32

thoughts or what you do

57:34

with those. I really want to emphasize, because

57:37

I know that this is something that

57:42

I'm sure will be going through

57:42

people's minds when people hear this

57:47

conversation or have conversations

57:47

with others, I want to emphasize.

57:51

And, and you had already touched on this, that. It's not just about maybe someone who's

57:54

really never worn makeup and suddenly

57:58

deciding that I want to wear makeup. It's also for people who feel that

58:00

they can't leave the house without

58:07

wearing six inches of makeup. And I, I worked with this celebrity

58:09

who you, I never, I never would have.

58:19

Imagined that the celebrities struggled

58:19

with something along those lines.

58:25

But this person shared with me, like

58:25

they were crying after I finished this

58:33

makeup for a job that they had to do.

58:37

And so I had to like fix the

58:37

makeup because they were crying.

58:40

But because they shared with me that

58:40

they always felt that they had to wear.

58:49

Basically a mask, you know, the mask

58:49

that makeup can be because makeup can be

58:54

something that's used in a negative way.

58:56

That's the whole point of this whole

58:56

conversation is that it becomes, it

59:00

becomes weaponized and it never should be.

59:03

I wasn't allowed to leave

59:05

the house without wearing

59:05

makeup. Right. So there's, so there's the, the, the other

59:07

side of the, of the equation or the coin.

59:14

However you want to put it is. I have worked with many, many, many

59:17

clients, this celebrity I'm thinking

59:21

of and, and, and others all over the

59:21

world where they thought that they had

59:28

to forever wear six inches of makeup.

59:33

And here's the thing. If wearing six inches of makeup,

59:35

Makes your day, it makes you feel

59:39

the most expansive, then do it.

59:42

I see people bash she new tubers

59:42

who do like the full beat.

59:45

And I'm like, Ty, if that makes

59:45

you happy either go for it.

59:50

My issue is when I have worked with

59:50

clients who are clearly not feeling

59:56

seen and not feeling empowered and

59:56

feeling small and who they are, because

1:00:01

they think that they're somehow not

1:00:01

Authorized to not wear the six inches

1:00:08

of makeup and we're in six inches

1:00:08

of makeup for them is not authentic.

1:00:12

And the work in that

1:00:12

situation is to again, learn.

1:00:19

The techniques learn the language

1:00:19

of makeup in a way that you are able

1:00:23

to then say what you want to say. And there is a mindset element

1:00:26

of setting yourself free from the

1:00:29

societal expectations, because like

1:00:29

you said, typically, someone who has

1:00:34

that idea about themselves was raised

1:00:34

in some way to think that Oh yeah,

1:00:38

because when you leave the house,

1:00:40

you're representing the

1:00:40

family and you have to look perfect.

1:00:44

And

1:00:45

there's a flaw. There's a whole mindset work that goes

1:00:47

on with giving yourself permission.

1:00:51

You let, truly let yourself

1:00:51

be seen and lets your skin be

1:00:55

seen, which is very vulnerable.

1:00:58

It's incredibly vulnerable. I know this is just a personal confession.

1:01:06

Yeah. I've I have posted makeup free

1:01:06

photos of myself on rare occasion.

1:01:13

I walk around half the

1:01:13

time with no makeup on.

1:01:16

I, I don't particularly they

1:01:16

have, how do I say this?

1:01:25

I don't like taking pictures of myself

1:01:25

without makeup and posting them.

1:01:29

Not because I'm ashamed of how

1:01:29

I look because I'm not it's

1:01:33

because for me it is so intimate.

1:01:37

It's it's I just think

1:01:37

I'm, you know, I, I.

1:01:42

I'm an introvert as well, which is

1:01:42

hilarious given the line of work that

1:01:47

I'm in and the things that I care about. But there, there are elements of privacy

1:01:49

for me that I just think know this isn't

1:01:54

about my, my self-esteem and self-worth,

1:01:54

I don't really care to post a photo of.

1:02:02

Yeah, of, of a moment for myself in

1:02:02

my own home or something that doesn't

1:02:06

have to be shared with 5,000 people. Now I get to go down to the

1:02:09

grocery store with no makeup on.

1:02:11

Sure. Because it's just a moment in time

1:02:12

I'm going there and coming back,

1:02:15

but I'm not, you know, Taking the

1:02:15

photograph and putting it up for

1:02:21

the masses to see for all of time. And I'm sure that somebody would

1:02:23

want to argue with me over that.

1:02:26

And again, I have, if anyone, you

1:02:26

know, looks through files of my

1:02:31

photographs, there's plenty that I

1:02:31

don't have a stitch of makeup on.

1:02:34

I'm just saying that right.

1:02:37

Well, what I'm saying though,

1:02:37

is that I resonate deeply.

1:02:39

I truly relate to both sides of

1:02:39

the story, which is, I feel like.

1:02:47

Someone who's, you know, someone who says, well, I don't even know if I can wear makeup.

1:02:50

I should. I relate to that because of how I grew up.

1:02:52

But I also relate to the other

1:02:52

side, which is, well, I should wear

1:02:56

something because it is, I relate to

1:02:56

the deep visceral vulnerability of not

1:03:03

having anything on your face at all. Because typically up into a certain

1:03:05

point, social media has changed

1:03:08

a lot, but typically that was

1:03:08

an element of our loss of life.

1:03:11

Life, that few people. We're able to see, unless it's somebody

1:03:13

who's very close to you in your home.

1:03:18

Yeah. So I, I get it.

1:03:20

Like, I really do understand the

1:03:20

full spectrum of all the different.

1:03:26

Ways that there can be resistance

1:03:26

around makeup resistance around self

1:03:30

care, just resistance around being

1:03:30

fully present in your body and being

1:03:34

seen even to yourself like baby steps.

1:03:37

The first step is giving yourself

1:03:37

permission to be seen to yourself,

1:03:42

to see yourself in the mirror. And that takes some work, but

1:03:43

it's absolutely worthwhile.

1:03:49

Yeah, clearly I could talk.

1:03:53

All day, all day. It's very dangerous to get me started

1:03:57

on any related to beauty for survivors.

1:04:02

And you're passionate about this is why I

1:04:02

got in big trouble at the makeup counters.

1:04:07

Now that I was talking about beauty for

1:04:07

survivors as such, but, you know, I get

1:04:10

into a conversation with a client about

1:04:10

something along these lines, and I got

1:04:15

in big trouble with management, but those

1:04:15

were always the clients who came back.

1:04:19

And came back and came back

1:04:19

and came back because they know

1:04:22

that I care about them first.

1:04:24

And what, how, how can I help you?

1:04:27

Not, what can I tell you,

1:04:29

you know, doing someone's

1:04:29

hair or doing their makeup is

1:04:32

such an intimate setting too.

1:04:34

It just is. And you know, and by I was,

1:04:36

I was, I played around with

1:04:40

that stuff a little bit. I told you I went to cosmetology

1:04:41

school and I was because I was always

1:04:45

doing that stuff for my friends. And they were like, you should go.

1:04:47

And I'm like,

1:04:48

okay, But even

1:04:52

when I've had, you know, work

1:04:52

done on me or whatever it is, it's

1:04:55

like your, the person's touching you.

1:04:58

They're like right up on it. Sometimes their boobs

1:04:59

are right in your face.

1:05:02

Cause they're like reaching. It's just like, we're all of a

1:05:04

sudden we're very close and like

1:05:08

the walls are down and it's. It's true.

1:05:11

I mean, how many people can relate to

1:05:11

telling their hairdresser or something

1:05:15

or their makeup artists, something

1:05:15

and or everything and vice versa.

1:05:21

Like they, they tell you

1:05:25

like it's a less, how

1:05:25

do what's the right word for this?

1:05:35

I don't want to say it's less

1:05:35

intimidating because it intimidating

1:05:38

is not the word I'm going for. It's it's, it's a more approachable,

1:05:39

well, way to let you go guard down

1:05:49

with someone because the focus,

1:05:49

the focus is and is not on you.

1:05:54

It's just, it's not the same as

1:05:54

walking into a therapist office and

1:05:58

literally sitting in the hot seat. And, and having to talk about things that

1:06:01

are horrific right then and there that's

1:06:07

a whole nother ball game it's needed.

1:06:09

I'm not knocking it, but my point

1:06:09

is that there's a lot of healing

1:06:13

that can happen subconsciously. Yeah.

1:06:16

When you just walk into a salon or

1:06:16

book an appointment with a makeup

1:06:20

artist, or even one of the things I'm

1:06:20

doing is setting up a way for people

1:06:25

to work with me, virtually talking

1:06:25

about, we're talking about this with

1:06:29

you before, about going through your

1:06:29

makeup drawer with me and talking

1:06:34

about things that you don't know how

1:06:34

to use, and just even things like that.

1:06:37

It's because for the brain, when the

1:06:37

focus is on something else, the, the.

1:06:44

Reality is that it gives

1:06:44

other areas of your brain, a

1:06:47

chance to breathe and process. This is why play is so important.

1:06:53

That a lot of times, even for myself,

1:06:53

when I'm trying to figure something

1:06:57

out and I reach an impasse, I.

1:07:02

Voluntarily make a choice

1:07:02

to do something that's fun.

1:07:05

I'll watch a Tom and Jerry video. I'll do something silly with my cat.

1:07:09

You know, I find something that is

1:07:09

just has no other value aside from

1:07:13

the fact that it's play Mahjong. I'll play a round with Majong on my phone.

1:07:18

That's even saying it correctly. And invariably.

1:07:23

Something will bubble up to the surface

1:07:23

because our brains are magnificent.

1:07:27

They never stop working on our behalf

1:07:27

and to divert your attention from

1:07:33

crisis mode long enough to help bring

1:07:33

cortisol levels back down, get you

1:07:41

out of your survival brain and into

1:07:41

the present and into your body and

1:07:45

other hormones that are more positive

1:07:45

can start going through your body.

1:07:48

These are all messages to your body,

1:07:48

that your brain is both sending

1:07:52

and receiving, and it facilitates

1:07:52

healing in a way unlike any other.

1:07:56

It just does. So, so yeah, I, and I, I say to people.

1:08:03

All the time I am one person.

1:08:06

I have been gifted in

1:08:06

a very particular way.

1:08:09

My area of genius and expertise

1:08:09

is art color, makeup design, but

1:08:17

clearly it's not a one size fit.

1:08:20

All. I'm not a fits all. I'm not insinuating that makeup is.

1:08:25

The new religion and everyone

1:08:25

must take up the torch or

1:08:29

follow me or anything like that. That's not what I'm setting this up to be.

1:08:32

And that's not the message. The message is, Hey, guess what?

1:08:36

This is what we talked about before. There's a whole other life

1:08:38

to be lived beyond survival.

1:08:41

How can we. Inform the conversation to be trauma

1:08:43

informed, but not trauma fixated,

1:08:50

trauma informed, around things that we

1:08:50

take for granted to assist our bodies

1:08:56

and minds in the healing process.

1:08:59

So for me, it's makeup for somebody else.

1:09:01

Like I said, it could be

1:09:01

financial services where.

1:09:05

I'm telling you if I knew that there

1:09:05

were a financial advisor who's trauma

1:09:09

informed for domestic abuse survivors, I

1:09:09

would be first in line to make that phone

1:09:14

call and say, can I come talk to you? Because I know ahead of time that I'm

1:09:16

not going to have to sit there and feel

1:09:20

embarrassed or ashamed or have to take 30

1:09:20

minutes explaining, well, I lost my home.

1:09:26

I lost all of my belongings. I was homeless.

1:09:28

Any number of things that

1:09:28

you typically have to start.

1:09:32

Yeah, not there. And it's, it's traumatizing.

1:09:36

They're not looking at you. Like what have you been doing?

1:09:41

And similarly with

1:09:44

these things,

1:09:45

with salon work, how many

1:09:45

let's go in and we've got patches like a

1:09:49

bald patch or, you know, I've got these

1:09:49

silver streaks that started showing up.

1:09:54

It's like, Stress. Right.

1:09:56

And we were talking about these things

1:09:56

and it's like, well, I have this thing

1:09:59

with my skin going on because I've been

1:09:59

stressed out and it, you know, we start

1:10:04

talking about these things and when we

1:10:04

know someone's going to be understand

1:10:09

it, and it's just the same thing.

1:10:13

Like, it just kind of comes up naturally.

1:10:15

But yes, the trauma informed financial

1:10:15

advisor, I mean, Yeah, it's scary.

1:10:21

It's scary thinking about

1:10:21

having someone look at this

1:10:25

and be like, you're almost 40. What have you been doing?

1:10:28

I don't remember. Not, not really, not too long ago.

1:10:32

I've come a long way. I've come a long way regardless,

1:10:33

but I still remember the feeling

1:10:37

of, I just remember having moments

1:10:37

where I would, I would just sit

1:10:45

down and think I have absolutely.

1:10:48

No idea how to be a human or how

1:10:48

to, I don't know how, like, how do

1:10:52

I, how much, like, what do I do? How does, how is this supposed to work?

1:10:55

Because abuse has such an overwhelming

1:10:55

effect on everything in your

1:11:01

mind and body that it's like,

1:11:01

you get dropped from a trap door.

1:11:05

You come crashing down to earth. When you start to wake up

1:11:06

to the healing process, it's

1:11:11

overwhelming the simplest things.

1:11:15

And still for me, sometimes buying

1:11:15

groceries for me sometimes can be one of

1:11:20

the most overwhelming things because I

1:11:20

get completely frozen in front of having

1:11:26

to make all of these different decisions. It's not all the time mine delivered

1:11:30

because it stresses me out. Yeah. I have the same cart.

1:11:33

Every time they get delivered, I pay extra

1:11:33

for the service, but it saves me that

1:11:37

stress. Right. And so I guess, W w what I would really

1:11:38

love to say to anyone who has taken

1:11:46

the time to share in this conversation,

1:11:46

whether it's here in this podcast

1:11:52

or at a later date, or in another

1:11:52

context, what I would say to anyone

1:11:56

who was listening is I don't care.

1:11:59

What line of work you are in.

1:12:02

I do not care what your

1:12:02

role is in this life.

1:12:07

You, someone in your life is a survivor.

1:12:11

Survivors are everywhere. They may not announce themselves.

1:12:15

We do like to be under the radar.

1:12:17

We like to look normal. We are normal.

1:12:22

What might, what part of my dream is,

1:12:22

is for anyone in any walk of life.

1:12:30

To understand the profound impact for

1:12:30

the good that they can have in the

1:12:35

life of a survivor by simply taking the

1:12:35

initiative to become trauma informed.

1:12:42

Because I dream of a world where

1:12:42

I know people dream of a world

1:12:48

where abuse doesn't happen. Right. I always been in my head is

1:12:50

I feel like people sit around

1:12:56

saying abuse shouldn't happen. I'm like, that's like saying the

1:12:57

house shouldn't catch on fire.

1:13:02

Listen, people, the house

1:13:02

is freaking on fire.

1:13:04

Grab a bucket of water and

1:13:04

let's go put out this fire.

1:13:08

The reality is abuse happens.

1:13:11

So stop. Arguing over, will it shouldn't happen?

1:13:15

The reality is that it has happened.

1:13:20

Yes. So get out of these, you know,

1:13:21

ivory halls and towers, having the

1:13:26

philosophical discussions, which granted

1:13:26

there's a place at a time for that

1:13:31

to change things, but get involved.

1:13:35

Realize that there are survivors

1:13:35

everywhere and that everything from

1:13:39

the house being cleaned to choosing

1:13:39

your groceries, to making sure you

1:13:44

get whatever medication you need to

1:13:44

even have an access to health care.

1:13:47

Don't get me started on that

1:13:47

financial education, knowing

1:13:54

how to dress yourself, feeling

1:13:54

confident, going to a job interview.

1:13:57

I, I don't care across the board.

1:14:00

Yes. For anyone to be trauma informed and to

1:14:01

take responsibility for that and to take

1:14:06

an active interest in what it means to be

1:14:06

trauma informed, you're saving a life you

1:14:11

truly are, because the difference that

1:14:11

it makes in the experience of a survivor

1:14:16

who is a hero for making it through the

1:14:16

day and still being alive when suicide is

1:14:24

a legitimate choice for many of us, you

1:14:24

know, You're seeing people, people are

1:14:29

in front of us every single day that we

1:14:29

have no idea what they have survived, what

1:14:34

battles they have won and to show kindness

1:14:34

and to show awareness and to show care

1:14:40

for what that person has gone through. And I, I understand that it's layered.

1:14:43

I'm not just referencing

1:14:43

a certain type of abuse.

1:14:46

It's all layered, but to just honor that.

1:14:51

And be willing to show up for other

1:14:51

people in that way, in whatever

1:14:55

line of work you have, that is

1:14:55

what is going to turn the tide.

1:15:00

And like I said, for me, it's makeup

1:15:00

because that's, that for me has

1:15:05

been my life for over 20 years.

1:15:07

It's part of who I am,

1:15:07

because I'm an artist.

1:15:10

So for me, I love to share that with

1:15:10

people and I love to teach people how.

1:15:17

This particular form of art can be

1:15:17

an ally in your healing journey, but

1:15:22

on the broader, you know, the larger

1:15:22

scale when it comes, like I said to

1:15:27

also just educating allies in general,

1:15:27

that's that is really the heart and

1:15:31

soul of my message is you have no idea.

1:15:34

The difference you can make, if

1:15:34

you can just choose to become

1:15:38

trauma informed and stop relegating

1:15:38

trauma response to shelters.

1:15:44

And charities because they, they, there's

1:15:44

never going to be enough resources

1:15:51

in those areas to cover the need. There just isn't, you know, so I think

1:15:52

a lot of what we hear right now in

1:16:00

current politics and current hot topics

1:16:00

and conversations about the fact that,

1:16:06

one element of a government force or one

1:16:06

particular industry cannot address all of

1:16:15

the needs that are out there in humanity. You need mental health experts.

1:16:19

You need therapists,

1:16:19

we all need each other.

1:16:22

I mean, body workers. Yeah. Yeah.

1:16:25

Every single person is essential.

1:16:30

Yeah. And for someone to truly become aware of

1:16:31

that and choose to activate the ability

1:16:39

that they have to make a difference. That's when we're going to see the

1:16:42

narrative of abuse changing for real,

1:16:48

because then people won't just be

1:16:48

doing what happens a lot, which is,

1:16:52

well, it's not my problem, you know?

1:16:55

Yeah, not a problem. That's for someone else to deal with.

1:16:57

I don't know about all that. I mean, I get it. There's a, there's a lot, there's

1:16:59

a lot coming at people and on, you

1:17:03

know, every single day and it can

1:17:03

be information overload, but right.

1:17:07

Hopefully through the work that I'm doing

1:17:07

with Beaty, for survivors, you know,

1:17:11

there's, there's the beautiful story

1:17:11

about the hummingbird and the forest fire.

1:17:15

I'm probably not going to retell it. Perfectly, but someone can look it up.

1:17:20

There's a story about hummingbird

1:17:20

that sees that the forest is on

1:17:23

fire and the hummingbird goes around

1:17:23

trying to get everybody to help.

1:17:26

And everyone was like, Oh, well, it's too big. I can't do anything about it.

1:17:29

And the hummingbird goes and

1:17:29

gets a drop of water at a time.

1:17:33

And I may be making this up.

1:17:36

I'm trying to remember the end of the

1:17:36

story, but I believe what happens is

1:17:41

that all the other animals see the

1:17:41

hummingbird going and taking one drop

1:17:44

at a time and that inspires them all. To do their part and, and,

1:17:46

and that that's all it is.

1:17:51

Nobody can, can do everything on their

1:17:51

own, but everyone can do something.

1:17:58

And everybody doing something in their

1:17:58

own sphere, in their own community in

1:18:03

whatever day it is that they're living. You know, all I can do is pick up a drop

1:18:05

of water, like the hummingbird, get that

1:18:10

drop of water and carry it to the fire.

1:18:12

And I'm going to keep doing that until my

1:18:12

wings don't work and I drop to the ground.

1:18:16

Like that's, that's what

1:18:16

I'm going to be doing.

1:18:19

And I hope to inspire others to grab a

1:18:19

bucket or a cup, or get a little drop.

1:18:26

If that's all they can carry whatever

1:18:26

they can do to put out the fire with me.

1:18:34

That's what I'm most passionate about.

1:18:39

I love it. I'm with ya. I've got my little water

1:18:43

bottle. Typically that would have been a

1:18:49

great product placement right there.

1:18:52

I know we had sponsors at this

1:18:52

point word from our sponsor H2O.

1:19:04

Yes. No I'm with you, I'm with you.

1:19:08

And I totally totally agree. You know, how much by

1:19:09

becoming trauma informed.

1:19:12

I think we also realize the ways in which

1:19:12

we're re-traumatizing people sometimes, or

1:19:19

even just not even, you know, everything.

1:19:23

That's the great thing about

1:19:23

self-awareness too is like, I totally

1:19:27

believe in self love and fully accepting

1:19:27

ourselves, but also being self-aware

1:19:31

and like what we're doing, how

1:19:34

what we do impacts the world

1:19:34

around us and the people around us.

1:19:37

You know, not that we should be

1:19:37

tiptoeing around and worrying about

1:19:40

what everyone, I don't think that,

1:19:40

but just the, we operate a lot of

1:19:49

times and everyone survived something.

1:19:52

You know, we would have,

1:19:53

and, and,

1:19:54

and

1:19:54

in becoming trauma, it's a

1:19:54

trauma to even arrive in the world.

1:19:57

I think I don't care what anybody

1:19:57

entry into this realm is trauma

1:20:05

for that kind of thing. And in other ways, it's, you know, not

1:20:07

like, not like a lot of us have and

1:20:14

have, you know, experienced trauma. It's just not okay.

1:20:17

It's not okay. And That's also the hard part about

1:20:18

being a survivor is like learning

1:20:24

to undo, just learning to

1:20:26

undo things that

1:20:26

are just really not healthy

1:20:28

for anyone. And then knowing what you can put in place

1:20:30

of all those things, because it's the

1:20:36

first step is to basically empty yourself.

1:20:43

And in many ways, you know, it's

1:20:43

like stripping and stripping the

1:20:45

house down to its bare bones. You have to do that, but

1:20:47

it's not meant to stay there.

1:20:50

You need to be able to, you know,

1:20:50

re recreate the walls, put in some

1:20:56

new vaulted ceilings, get yourself

1:20:56

a picture window, all those things.

1:21:00

And it's the same thing with learning

1:21:00

to live, not just survive, but live in a

1:21:08

way that you can truly look at yourself

1:21:08

in the mirror and say, you know what?

1:21:12

I'm glad. That I'm still here because that's, to

1:21:13

me, one of the most powerful statements

1:21:19

that can ever come from a survivor. And I never thought,

1:21:20

well, I shouldn't say it.

1:21:25

It felt like the impossible dream.

1:21:29

I lived in many, many years

1:21:29

wanting to not be on this planet.

1:21:33

And I always felt Jesus.

1:21:36

So close to me in those moments in ways

1:21:36

that I could not explain it, it pissed

1:21:40

me off to be honest, because I would feel

1:21:40

his presence palpably in the room with me

1:21:44

when I was very close to taking my life,

1:21:44

because I did get very close and I would

1:21:48

feel his presence palpably, and I could

1:21:48

feel a level of love that just undid me.

1:21:57

And I knew that he loved me and that he.

1:22:06

Had a vision of beauty for my

1:22:06

life that I just couldn't see yet.

1:22:15

And so it pissed me off because I

1:22:15

was like, I didn't create this world.

1:22:20

I didn't create myself. I, I recognized this, this sort

1:22:21

of majesty, like lack of a better

1:22:26

word, just a majesty in that

1:22:26

moment where I was like, I want to.

1:22:30

I just want to be done. I don't want to be here anymore. And there was a level of majesty and, and.

1:22:36

And beauty sensing that

1:22:36

love coming towards me.

1:22:40

And I thought, okay, I can't end this life

1:22:40

because I know that it's bigger than me.

1:22:44

I can't, I can't do it. Like I can't, because I just can't,

1:22:45

it would, I would get so mad because

1:22:50

I'm like, damn, like, why am I here?

1:22:52

Like you won't let me leave. I didn't like, I don't

1:22:54

know how I ended up here.

1:22:59

I can't leave. Like I can clearly like nothing is working

1:23:00

because my life is just an absolute wreck.

1:23:06

And so in those moments, I remember

1:23:06

thinking, okay, well, I can't leave

1:23:10

because there's something more that

1:23:10

I'm not seeing, but I did live many

1:23:15

years thinking, am I ever going to

1:23:15

get to a place where I can truly

1:23:19

fully in full body, the full body?

1:23:22

Yes. As many people talk about, will I ever

1:23:22

get to a place where I can say yes.

1:23:29

I am so glad that I made it this far.

1:23:34

I'm so glad to be here. I am so grateful that my body fought

1:23:36

for me and fought to stay alive.

1:23:41

When I was lying in a hospital bed,

1:23:41

and the doctors were looking at me

1:23:44

saying, you should not still be alive

1:23:44

with what you have endured interview

1:23:50

internal injuries, but my body was

1:23:50

fighting for me and I had to learn.

1:23:57

To become an ally to my body

1:23:57

and say, okay, you know what?

1:24:01

Instead of fighting against you,

1:24:01

I'm going to fight with you.

1:24:04

I'm going to stay on the same side

1:24:04

as you, we're going to do this

1:24:06

together because now I believe that

1:24:06

there's something worth fighting for.

1:24:10

And, and to, to be where I am today,

1:24:10

I do have come so far and to be

1:24:14

grateful and excited to be alive and

1:24:14

yeah, to just be so happy and proud

1:24:22

of myself for having come so far.

1:24:25

And I look back and think. Yeah, I'm glad that I'm still here and

1:24:27

I have a lot more that I want to do.

1:24:31

And I finally understand things

1:24:31

that I never thought I'd be able to

1:24:39

understand about how to actually live

1:24:39

in a way that doesn't hurt, like hell.

1:24:44

Yeah. So I'm so glad you're still here too.

1:24:48

I am too. I, I can say that wholeheartedly,

1:24:50

they were times mhmm before.

1:24:52

I'd be like and, you

1:24:52

know, instead it'd be like,

1:24:58

but I can, I, can I I know one of the,

1:24:58

I think I'd mentioned this to you about.

1:25:04

There's a post that I am planning on

1:25:04

publishing pretty soon where I'm I put

1:25:09

photos side by side of myself when I

1:25:09

had been through some of the worst.

1:25:13

And I literally looked like I was

1:25:13

over 50 years old, which not that

1:25:16

there's anything wrong with that,

1:25:16

but ages 20 at the age of 20.

1:25:22

Seven looking like I

1:25:22

was over 50 years old.

1:25:24

Like there's a problem. Yeah. I, I looked Haggard.

1:25:28

I looked gaunt. I looked like I wasn't even,

1:25:29

it looked like there was a

1:25:32

body and no person inside. And I just snapped a photo

1:25:34

because I wanted to get a current

1:25:38

photo to put next to that one. And I look at the two photos and

1:25:40

there's just no comparison because

1:25:45

you see the photo from current day

1:25:45

and you can see in my face, how.

1:25:50

Deeply grounded. I am in my body and how fully present.

1:25:54

And that to me is the greatest

1:25:54

victory that I I'm fully in my body.

1:25:59

I'm not out there somewhere. I'm right here.

1:26:02

I recognize myself. Now when I hear, which is I never,

1:26:03

I, I never thought I'd be able to

1:26:09

recognize myself in the mirror. Yeah.

1:26:12

And now I can, and it's not just being

1:26:12

able to see my self in the mirror.

1:26:15

It's like, Oh yeah, I know who you are. Hey, like, yeah, I see when I look

1:26:19

in the mirror, I'm like, I remember

1:26:22

you when you were five for years,

1:26:22

I would look in the mirror and be

1:26:26

like, I, this person, I don't know

1:26:26

who this person is, but it's not me.

1:26:30

And it makes total sense. Total sense with

1:26:32

everything that I survived.

1:26:34

Yeah. Yeah. I often sing to myself, the Mr.

1:26:41

Rogers song. It's such a good feeling

1:26:44

to know you're alive.

1:26:47

Such a happy feeling.

1:26:49

Yes. He goes all the words, happy to say, I think I'll

1:26:54

make a snap and that's my song.

1:27:01

And I sing it wholeheartedly. And I think to myself, damn,

1:27:03

I have come a long way.

1:27:06

I love the surrenders. I love Mr.

1:27:11

Rogers. I do

1:27:12

too. He's like one of my favorite

1:27:13

people in all the world.

1:27:16

Yeah,

1:27:18

what a gift he gave us. Like he's got all this, all

1:27:20

these tapes of him on TV for

1:27:26

years, I used to have a cassette

1:27:26

tape of his and I'm trying to remember,

1:27:31

Oh gosh, it was a song I used to sing to

1:27:31

myself all the time and now I'm drawing a

1:27:35

blank because I still sing it to myself. It was about something about accepting

1:27:39

yourself which is obviously Mr.

1:27:45

Rogers, like that's his brand,

1:27:45

but it was something about

1:27:51

being, Oh, I remember it now.

1:27:55

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I sang it to somebody about a month ago.

1:27:59

And she just looked at me like she

1:27:59

wanted to do more than social distancing.

1:28:05

She wanted to just run as far on the other direction. But it is a song that I sing to myself

1:28:08

because I remember it when I was a child.

1:28:11

He it's about. Courage.

1:28:13

And he said, be brave and then be strong.

1:28:17

You can't go wrong when you were right. So be brave and then be strong.

1:28:22

I wouldn't that, I don't

1:28:22

even remember that.

1:28:24

It wasn't on a tape. There was a cassette

1:28:25

tape with mister rogers. Okay.

1:28:28

And I, I mean, that song got me through

1:28:28

some stuff when I was little, I'd just

1:28:32

be like strong.

1:28:37

So that was, that was my,

1:28:37

that was my song that got me through

1:28:40

a lot of things when I was little. And it just, you know, those things

1:28:41

I think with you and I love loved

1:28:48

and still love the simplicity.

1:28:51

And I mean, I'm not saying anything new. We all know this about Mr.

1:28:54

Rogers. Just such a simplicity to.

1:28:59

Things that are our core

1:28:59

elements of, of being human.

1:29:03

And I always say, you know what, if you

1:29:03

can explain it to a kid, then you've

1:29:09

probably got a good handle on whatever

1:29:09

it is that you're truly passionate about.

1:29:13

If you have to, if you have to

1:29:13

sit there and pontificate for 10

1:29:17

hours, which I'm not a great example

1:29:17

of what I'm saying, because I've

1:29:20

been pontificating now for hours. If I had to sit down.

1:29:24

And speak to a kindergartener

1:29:24

about if you had to boil it down.

1:29:29

Yeah. Yeah. And I could, and I have before, because I

1:29:29

mean, I've obviously worked with kids too,

1:29:35

who are growing up in abusive households.

1:29:38

And so I always feel that simplicity

1:29:38

is absolutely fundamental.

1:29:45

And Mr. Rogers, as a shining example

1:29:45

of that, because when the chips

1:29:48

are down and you don't have.

1:29:52

Tons and tons of energy or resources.

1:29:54

It has to be those little simple things

1:29:54

that, that we all have to hold on to.

1:29:59

Yeah. I mean, and that's what

1:29:59

I had with that song.

1:30:03

So I love that.

1:30:07

I think he saved probably

1:30:07

a lot of kids, sanity or lives

1:30:12

that would even, I think

1:30:12

I, I I'm sure that he helped many

1:30:17

kids to feel a little bit safer. Then they wouldn't have otherwise

1:30:19

because he was an example of you know,

1:30:27

an adult that was being the adult and

1:30:27

not wanting them to be the adult too.

1:30:33

Like he, he made space

1:30:33

for kids to be kids.

1:30:37

Yeah.

1:30:41

He's the best. We love you, Mr. Rogers, wherever you are.

1:30:49

But, yeah, I'm really grateful. You're here too.

1:30:51

I've had, I have loved

1:30:51

getting to know you.

1:30:54

We got, we just found each

1:30:57

other. I know I was starting to color that too.

1:31:01

That when you, you added yourself as

1:31:01

a lone Wolf in your Facebook posts, I

1:31:06

was like, now that's the person I need

1:31:06

to talk to because that's me to a T.

1:31:14

Yeah, it was just something to post

1:31:14

and I was very reluctant to you know,

1:31:20

potentially put myself out there to yeah,

1:31:20

to just like share what I'm working on.

1:31:32

And yeah, I already knew, I

1:31:32

mean, this is going right back

1:31:35

to what I was talking about. I, I, I was reluctant to put

1:31:36

myself out there because I know

1:31:39

that not everyone understands. Trauma, like when it comes to

1:31:41

building a business or just

1:31:47

showing up and getting things done. And so I have a lot that I'm working

1:31:49

on and a lot that I know is already

1:31:59

a success and will continue to

1:31:59

be a success, but I knew that I

1:32:03

also needed to not be so isolated.

1:32:05

And so I was, I don't know something

1:32:05

about what I saw when you posted that.

1:32:10

You were looking for something

1:32:10

similar, but you tended to

1:32:12

be a lone Wolf about things. I was like, well, that's a

1:32:13

good sign because me too, we

1:32:19

can be lone wolves together.

1:32:22

I think it's hard. I do think it's extra hard when you have

1:32:23

been through trauma to be in groups where

1:32:28

people are building things, because you

1:32:28

just feel a little bit like, I don't know.

1:32:36

Like I was in a business

1:32:36

group the other day.

1:32:38

And like, somebody wants to, someone

1:32:38

was like, well, why haven't you yet?

1:32:42

And why haven't you? And I'm like, thank you.

1:32:45

Like, I was just like, okay, thanks.

1:32:48

Like I was really fighting,

1:32:48

getting defensive and also

1:32:53

explaining myself to this person. Cause I'm like, obviously this

1:32:55

person has had no issues, like

1:32:58

starting four businesses and like. That's great for you.

1:33:04

It's just like the mental hurdles. I have to jump every morning.

1:33:09

Yeah. And I mean, I had been part of

1:33:09

a business collective let's say

1:33:16

previously, and I kept wondering what

1:33:16

is wrong with me because I just, I,

1:33:22

everything the focus seemed to be on.

1:33:30

From the leadership. It seemed to be, the focus was on sort of

1:33:31

shouting at people like a drill Sergeant.

1:33:36

Yeah. I already put enormous pressure on

1:33:37

myself and I am highly accountable

1:33:43

to myself because guess what? I've been alone for years.

1:33:47

And if I don't show up for myself,

1:33:47

nobody else is going to show up for me.

1:33:51

So I had to learn that a long time ago. So I don't actually have problems with

1:33:52

showing up and making things happen.

1:33:58

My challenges are on the flip side of.

1:34:00

Bringing balance into the equation

1:34:00

and making sure that I'm resting

1:34:04

and drinking water and eating. And so I, yeah, I have found I've

1:34:06

been challenged previously because I

1:34:12

just, I thought is there's something

1:34:12

wrong with me that I, I don't really

1:34:16

need someone to scream at me because

1:34:16

I'm, what are you doing to work?

1:34:19

Yeah, I didn't realize there's I just

1:34:19

realized I was like, you know what?

1:34:24

It's just not the right fit for me because

1:34:24

I guess there are people that really need.

1:34:29

You know, like getting a physical trainer

1:34:29

or something, a lot of people need

1:34:32

an outside element to, to prod them.

1:34:35

And that's not what I need and it's not

1:34:35

an issue if that is what someone needs.

1:34:40

There's plenty of groups

1:34:40

out there for that.

1:34:44

But I, would not be creating what I'm creating

1:34:45

without knowing that I know myself.

1:34:53

I know myself very well. And I know when and how to filter

1:34:55

out the well-meaning voices that

1:35:00

are just tone deaf, let's say,

1:35:00

because there's no concept of what

1:35:07

trauma brings to the equation. Thinking about that.

1:35:10

I think because we understand,

1:35:10

like we know what it's like for

1:35:14

somebody who's come from trauma,

1:35:14

especially since early childhood.

1:35:21

To do anything with their lives.

1:35:23

It's I mean, it is amazing.

1:35:26

It is amazing. And just having that understanding,

1:35:27

and I think we kind of clicked on that

1:35:33

level too, in a lot of ways we just kind

1:35:33

of understoood and were Sagittarians.

1:35:39

Yes, it is.

1:35:43

It is remarkable. How much would we Can compare

1:35:44

notes on so many things.

1:35:49

And that's just an tremendous blessing to

1:35:49

me and really encouraging to me because

1:35:56

I feel like someone gets it and I really

1:35:56

don't feel as alone as I felt before in

1:36:01

what I'm building, because it's just nice

1:36:01

to kind of compare notes with someone who.

1:36:11

Gets it without my having to spell

1:36:11

absolutely everything out, you know?

1:36:17

Yeah. Having

1:36:18

people walk alongside you

1:36:18

is hugely important I think a lot of

1:36:23

us, when we, when we try to get into

1:36:23

relationships or whatever, and the person

1:36:26

just doesn't understand, they're looking

1:36:26

at you, like, what's your problem?

1:36:29

And I'm like, and we're like

1:36:29

walking around with limbs.

1:36:31

I'll. Broken piece of paying

1:36:32

off and it's like, I

1:36:36

don't know,

1:36:36

I'm trying to get up,

1:36:42

but it is different when people

1:36:42

get it and they're walking alongside

1:36:46

you and you're not constantly being

1:36:46

dragged behind the cart all the time.

1:36:50

And you've got time to kind

1:36:50

of collect yourself and

1:36:54

put the pieces

1:36:54

back together and Oh yeah.

1:36:57

It's just such a it's it's again,

1:36:57

it all comes down to balance because

1:37:02

yeah, some people just have never

1:37:02

really been exposed to survivors or

1:37:09

what it's like for survivors, but one

1:37:09

of the things I tried to use as an

1:37:13

illustration to help people understand.

1:37:16

When they seem to really not

1:37:16

get it because things aren't

1:37:20

visible, like you said. Yeah. I use the analogy of something

1:37:22

I saw recently as well.

1:37:25

I've seen multiple examples where

1:37:25

there was a woman who I believe was

1:37:30

a firefighter and she was injured,

1:37:30

responding to a call, a tree,

1:37:34

fell on top of her and pinned her. And they said she was going

1:37:35

to be paralyzed forever, that

1:37:39

she would never walk again. And then her story.

1:37:44

Is incredible because

1:37:44

she's got all of this.

1:37:46

People are friends and family are filming

1:37:46

her recovery and she's been in the

1:37:51

hospital and she's been in a hospital bed.

1:37:54

And now she's, they filmed when

1:37:54

she was first able to sit up and

1:37:57

people were crying because it was

1:37:57

like this huge thing, which it is.

1:38:01

And then there was filming of

1:38:01

when she first was able to swing

1:38:03

her legs around and like put

1:38:03

her legs on the side of the bed.

1:38:05

And she was in tears and all of the

1:38:05

physical therapists were in tears.

1:38:09

And I watched that and I thought,

1:38:09

wow, Everyone gets so emotional.

1:38:14

And we all understand because yes, it

1:38:14

is so important because it's visible and

1:38:18

people think, Oh, you were hit by a tree.

1:38:20

You were actually physically mangled.

1:38:23

He was potentially paralyzed for life.

1:38:25

So we. See, and we understand, wow,

1:38:26

what a hero, what a fighter.

1:38:29

And nobody would walk into

1:38:29

that hospital and be like, why

1:38:32

haven't you run a five k yet? You just need to get with the program.

1:38:36

You're just lazy. You just don't have, self-discipline

1:38:37

like nobody in their right mind would

1:38:40

say that to her because there's already

1:38:40

an awareness of, she is incredible.

1:38:46

Look at what she's done already

1:38:46

with what happened to her.

1:38:51

Yeah. So if there were anything that

1:38:51

I could do, any magic wand, I

1:38:54

would love to wave in this life. It would be the magic wand that

1:38:56

helps people to see and understand

1:39:01

the invisible destruction and

1:39:01

mangling, like you said, that we,

1:39:07

as survivors have made it through.

1:39:11

And the fact that we are in our

1:39:11

right minds, upright, even working

1:39:17

on these various passion projects,

1:39:17

I mean, That is to be celebrated.

1:39:22

And I would love for people

1:39:22

to have the, the, the eyes in

1:39:27

some way to see the reality.

1:39:30

That's all there behind us as survivors.

1:39:33

Like it's all there. If someone would just have the eyes

1:39:34

to see, wow, look at everything.

1:39:38

This person has overcome. And so where you're standing

1:39:40

right now is a victory and you're

1:39:44

on your way to greater victory. And that support is so needed for people

1:39:45

to see us and believe in us and, and

1:39:50

cheer for us from the sidelines, the same

1:39:50

way they're cheering for this other dear

1:39:54

person who had the severe physical injury.

1:39:57

You know, it's not that there's a value

1:39:57

difference between the two, it's just the,

1:40:02

the, the, the energy body and the mind,

1:40:02

and even our electromagnetic wavelengths

1:40:09

that we have individually coming from our

1:40:09

heart, those can be impacted by abuse.

1:40:13

Like there's a whole other

1:40:13

element of who we are.

1:40:16

And unfortunately, up until very

1:40:16

recently, it was completely discounted

1:40:21

that there's anything else going on

1:40:21

about us besides our physical body.

1:40:24

And that's just not the case.

1:40:26

Yeah. Yeah. And, and to that, to the point you were

1:40:27

making, it's not a comparison game.

1:40:31

Like I think I've only had one.

1:40:33

With all the writing I've done

1:40:33

on Instagram and all that stuff.

1:40:36

I've only had one person do that.

1:40:39

And they were like, stop complaining.

1:40:41

I was, you

1:40:43

know, beaten and like all this.

1:40:45

And I'm like, well, I haven't told my

1:40:45

whole story yet, but also you don't have

1:40:50

to be touched by anybody to be affected.

1:40:52

I was beaten, but I mean, this person

1:40:52

was like listing off all these things and

1:40:57

I'm like this isn't a comparison game.

1:41:00

And the fact that. You know, there are people who've

1:41:02

been through severe things and they

1:41:05

also come out to not understand.

1:41:10

And I think that's hugely important

1:41:10

to not everyone who's just had,

1:41:12

you know, loving parents or are

1:41:12

the people who can't relate.

1:41:16

There are people who've been through

1:41:16

severe abuse who can't relate, and I

1:41:20

want to reach those people to just be

1:41:20

like, you've been through something

1:41:23

horrible. And,

1:41:26

and the comparison

1:41:26

game, like, you know,

1:41:29

this is. How can I help you?

1:41:34

It's true. It's true. And, and to it's just very it's a

1:41:35

very limited perspective to, to again,

1:41:46

put a box around someone's suffering

1:41:46

or try to quantify it when you

1:41:50

haven't lived in their body and you

1:41:50

have not been through whatever that

1:41:53

person has been through you either. To me, there is no comparison.

1:41:57

Each person's. Experience is unique.

1:42:00

That's the ultimate of what

1:42:00

staying a victim is, is living in that.

1:42:05

My S my, you know, I've done, my

1:42:05

suffering was much worse than yours,

1:42:09

but I've moved on with my life. That kind of a thing.

1:42:12

That's, there's still creating

1:42:12

more suffering and living

1:42:15

in victim mode that way. And that's, that's what I think

1:42:16

of as true victim mode that.

1:42:18

Talking about these things and not saying,

1:42:18

look, this happened to me and this is

1:42:22

what it's like to actually deal with it.

1:42:25

Well, yeah. And trying to project who you

1:42:26

are onto someone else and think,

1:42:30

well, this was this way for me. And therefore it was either

1:42:32

much worse or trying to quantify

1:42:36

in that way is just a false.

1:42:39

It's a false start. It's a false premise because even

1:42:40

in the natural world, I, I, this is

1:42:45

another thing that I say quite often.

1:42:47

That's like, when you go, trying to

1:42:47

say that what's best for a sunflower

1:42:51

is also best for a little violet in

1:42:51

the woods and it's just not the yeah.

1:42:54

Geez. So all differently.

1:42:57

So in terms of how we're all designed

1:42:57

uniquely as living organisms,

1:43:03

just like any other element on

1:43:03

this earth, what's good for one.

1:43:08

Is not good for another. And what is horrific for one organism

1:43:10

and, and full of destruction would

1:43:16

not necessarily be for another. So you can't sit there and say,

1:43:17

Oh, well, I, I dealt with this.

1:43:20

And so you should have been able to, or

1:43:20

this was fine, or, Oh, that's nothing.

1:43:23

Or you should get over it. Or what I went through was worse.

1:43:26

It's just a false premise

1:43:26

there's no legitimacy to that

1:43:28

kind of an argument because. You're starting with a complete false

1:43:31

idea that everyone is somehow the same

1:43:40

and that this is some sort of like

1:43:40

numbers game when it's really, it's not.

1:43:45

Yeah. And you, haven't given yourself time to

1:43:46

move through your own hurts, you know,

1:43:51

and not just move on from them, but move

1:43:51

through them and, and work through them.

1:43:58

And. Yeah, so much about the healing process

1:44:00

is it affects every area of your life.

1:44:09

And without fully just being able to

1:44:09

fully, fully accept yourself and fully

1:44:19

look into all of these different areas.

1:44:22

And kind of just, all right,

1:44:22

I'm going to take this area.

1:44:25

I'm going to look at it and like step

1:44:25

into it, you know, and just taking

1:44:31

those steps and just like with beauty,

1:44:31

for survivors, it's one more area.

1:44:35

And it's a more fun area, even though

1:44:35

at times, I think, I think at times

1:44:42

it could probably be very intense

1:44:45

to go through

1:44:46

that. Yeah. And I know there are times in my life

1:44:47

where looking in the mirror was just

1:44:55

painful. Yeah.

1:44:58

Yeah.

1:44:58

Emotionally

1:44:59

painful. Well, yeah, because to be cliched and

1:45:01

not, I mean, I do, I do believe the,

1:45:06

the old adage that the eyes of the

1:45:06

window to the soul and for me, yeah.

1:45:11

I didn't want to see myself

1:45:11

because everything, my eyes.

1:45:15

Like I saw everything in my eyes

1:45:15

and it was it's, it would be

1:45:20

very hard to face all of that. It was just a constant reminder

1:45:23

of everything that, that was

1:45:25

wrong and of where I, I was still

1:45:25

stuck or what I had survived.

1:45:31

Like I saw everything written on me that

1:45:31

had happened to me instead of seeing

1:45:35

who I am, which is completely different.

1:45:40

And yeah, it's, it's funny in a way

1:45:40

to sort of, again, flip that narrative

1:45:44

so that when you're looking in the

1:45:44

mirror, you're not seeing what's

1:45:47

happened to you or what you survived. You're seeing you, I

1:45:53

love that your work

1:45:53

is very, very important.

1:45:56

Oh, thank you. Thanks. Thank you for being interested

1:45:59

in, in hearing about it and.

1:46:03

Oh, I can't wait to share it with everybody. Always letting me get very

1:46:05

passionate and go on and on for

1:46:10

who knows how long you do anything.

1:46:13

You just are. Those things. I love

1:46:17

it. Your passion is wonderful. It's beautiful.

1:46:19

It's inspiring.

1:46:22

Thank you. And you're very

1:46:23

inspiring and I

1:46:23

encourage everyone to go

1:46:25

check out your Instagram page. I'll have all that

1:46:27

stuff in the show notes. And then your website and see what's

1:46:31

going on. Thank you so much.

1:46:34

You're very gifted writer too. I love reading your stuff,

1:46:35

so, Oh, thank you very much.

1:46:37

I, I love writing, so yeah,

1:46:40

I think we have that in common too. Yeah.

1:46:42

And I can't wait to see you next week.

1:46:45

I know we're going to have a

1:46:45

visit to celebrate and I will be proudly.

1:46:52

It's 14, my special

1:46:52

blue nail Polish, Asian.

1:46:57

I'll have to take some

1:46:57

pictures of that and post them.

1:47:01

Magellan didn't show up. No, he's he is, he is out like a light.

1:47:08

I

1:47:08

know I'm not going to get

1:47:09

his moment of glory. Not today, not today on your

1:47:13

Instagram page though. He's the handsome guy that he

1:47:15

is. Yeah. Literally on every Instagram

1:47:16

page I've ever made and he

1:47:20

will he's, he's my mascot. He's definitely the mascot.

1:47:23

And when I was living in Italy, I

1:47:23

don't know if I ever told you this.

1:47:27

I had people asking me to

1:47:27

create a fan page for him.

1:47:32

So I tell you that. No, but I believe it.

1:47:35

I had literally requests. People were like, why haven't

1:47:37

you made a fan page for him?

1:47:39

I want to like a song on Facebook.

1:47:41

And I'm like, this is insane that my

1:47:41

cat has more fans than I ever will.

1:47:46

There might be something there. I know I started out a little comic

1:47:48

strip for cartoon series with him,

1:47:54

the drawings that I was doing at

1:47:54

the time as well, which I need to

1:47:57

redo that again, because it's just,

1:47:57

he's just perfect for all of that.

1:48:01

He's. He is a personado was we say

1:48:02

in Italian, he is a character.

1:48:06

Yeah, he definitely is. I can attest to that.

1:48:10

Yes, but no, one's going to

1:48:11

know now. No, but you can, you can

1:48:12

book him for his own podcast.

1:48:17

I'm sure he would have a lot to say.

1:48:19

And he that'd

1:48:20

be at like midnight. Is

1:48:22

that when he's awake in the middle of the night, he

1:48:26

is very chatty when he's awake.

1:48:32

He's a sweetheart. I'll tell him we missed him.

1:48:35

I will.

1:48:41

This has been wonderful and amazing. And I thank you so much for coming on.

1:48:46

I love this. I know other people are

1:48:48

going to get a lot out

1:48:49

of this. Well, thank you for having me.

1:48:52

I'm really, really, truly honored, not

1:48:52

just to be a part of your podcast, but

1:48:57

to know you and know you as a friend,

1:48:57

and I'm really excited for what you're

1:49:01

creating and the difference that you're

1:49:01

making in so many people's lives.

1:49:05

And so thank you for extending

1:49:05

the opportunity to me,

1:49:10

to, to chat with you too. It's been great. It's been my pleasure.

1:49:16

Well, as we say in French I was

1:49:16

going to say it's not, not goodbye.

1:49:21

It's too soon. And that's for sure. Yes.