0:00

It's. Time for mag break weekly. Any

0:02

and that here. Jason snails here filling

0:04

in frogs. Let it, Lindsey the bearded

0:06

tutor, the wonderful Stephen Robles. And of

0:08

course, we have a big. Big

0:11

birthday to celebrate and anniversary we're going to

0:13

get. the balloons, are gonna get the cake

0:15

and we're going to see if we can

0:17

boot is forty year old Macintosh next I

0:20

make great weekly. Podcast

0:23

you love from people you

0:26

trust. This

0:28

is tweet. This

0:33

is Mack Break Weekly Episode

0:35

Nine Hundred Five Recorded Tuesday,

0:38

January Twenty Third, Twenty Twenty

0:40

Four. Tequila. For your

0:42

eyes. Mack.

0:45

Break weekly is brought to you

0:47

by collide when you go through

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airport security, there's one line where't

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the same thing happens enterprise Security, but

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2:10

K-O-L-I-D-E collide.com/MacBreak. It's

2:13

time for MacBreak Weekly, the show where we

2:15

cover the latest Apple news. Jason Snell is

2:17

here, so the warrant canary

2:19

has failed. He is still

2:21

in his home. I'm here. I

2:24

do not have a Vision Pro. I

2:27

do have an original Mac behind

2:29

me that is running. It's running too. It looks

2:31

like it has solitaire going on there. I

2:34

think right now there's some DAs. You

2:36

can't have a floppy disk that also

2:38

has apps on it. It's

2:41

got a calculator and a controller.

2:43

Was it disk or desk? It

2:47

was desk accessories. Yeah,

2:49

so the calculator, control panel, and the notepad I

2:51

think are all open. We'll tell you why he's

2:53

turned that on. Multicasking. Original Mac style. In

2:55

just a moment, but we should also say

2:57

hi to Andy Inocco, WGBH

3:00

in Boston. Hello, Andrew. Hello,

3:02

Jason. I don't want to spoil it

3:04

for you, but if you're stuck on

3:06

the puzzle game, there's a really great

3:08

surprise for finishing it. I don't want

3:10

to ruin it for you, but it's

3:12

pretty darn cute. I'll slide the numbers

3:14

around until you get them in order.

3:16

I'm looking forward to it. I like

3:18

your hat, Andrew, the San Francisco Giants

3:20

World Series hat from, I don't

3:23

know when. Yes. I

3:25

was doing some 2010s.

3:27

San Francisco Giants baseball.

3:30

On the air. Let's welcome Stephen

3:33

Robles, the bearded teacher. He

3:36

is in the house, PrimaryTech.fm,

3:38

filling in for

3:41

Alex Lindsay, who is an assignment. Pleasure

3:44

to be here. Thank you for having me. Great

3:47

to see you. You are here on an auspicious day. I

3:50

could play the 1984 Apple commercial for

3:53

you right now, but Apple would immediately take

3:55

the show off the air, and

3:57

I don't want to do that. Imagine

4:00

in your mind, January, what was

4:02

it? January

4:06

20th, 24th, which is tomorrow. I

4:11

think Apple would introduce the Mac.

4:13

Something about why 1984 won't be

4:15

like 1984. We

4:25

will prevail. I don't think Apple

4:27

will take that down. Only

4:32

work was outstanding. He

4:34

did it all with his

4:36

mouth, ladies and gentlemen. And

4:39

a couple of pair of old brown shoes on. I

4:42

was going to say that, I mean,

4:44

it's your show, but that's a really

4:46

odd way to pay tribute to the

4:48

30th anniversary of Kevin Smith's Clerks. I

4:51

mean, it was a great movie. I mean, it

4:53

was like the first movie that I'd ever seen

4:55

that had people my age on movies that were

4:57

actually talking in my petois, so

4:59

to speak. I'm now

5:02

closing that tab so that we

5:04

can't accidentally play the NID. Of

5:06

course, it is the 40th

5:08

now anniversary of

5:11

Macintosh. It

5:13

shipped January 24th. This was one of

5:15

those things where they announced it and it shipped

5:17

almost immediately, or had they preannounced it in September

5:20

or something like that? No, they did the

5:22

Super Bowl ad and then they rolled

5:24

it out. And that was

5:26

on the day and they rolled it out.

5:29

And they even rolled out, this is

5:31

a little funny quirk, they rolled out

5:33

Macworld magazine that day too. They had

5:35

actually done a pre, I remember

5:37

the first issue of Macworld literally was at the

5:39

event, which is wild, right? The access that they

5:41

had behind the scenes to the Mac team. I

5:43

think we all got a subscription to Macworld, as

5:45

I remember when we bought a Mac. I think

5:47

you got a year subscription. That

5:50

deal lasted a very long time. That deal lasted

5:52

like 25 years, I think. The

5:55

card in the box. That was a big

5:57

one. Mr. Snow was editor-in-chief at Macworld. for

5:59

10, 15 years or something like that. I

6:03

was there, it started after the salad days,

6:05

but yes, yes, I was there. I started

6:07

working at Mac World and Mac User before

6:10

that in the 90s when Apple was doomed,

6:13

and they got better. They were doomed

6:15

in the 90s. It was a bad career move. I used to go on

6:17

the radio in 93 and 94. This

6:20

was in the Guillemilio era, and then

6:23

the diesel, Schindler,

6:26

and used to say Apple, it's doomed. They're

6:28

terrible. The memory

6:30

management on the Mac is terrible and all that.

6:32

And then Steve Jobs came back, brought Next with

6:35

him, and that was the big save here. And

6:38

of course, Bill Gates, $150 million. We

6:42

passed the line item a little while ago

6:44

now. You have to be vague about it, but

6:46

we could still say vaguely that Mac OS X sort

6:49

of arrived at what is now kind of the

6:52

halfway point of the Mac's life, but it's actually,

6:55

Mac OS X era has actually been around a

6:57

few years longer than classic Mac OS, no matter

6:59

how you define those dates, because it was a

7:01

fuzzy sort of three years. Is the Next step

7:03

they're seeing? Yeah, well,

7:06

I mean, we think of the, we're celebrating 40

7:08

years of the Mac, the classic Mac OS, but

7:11

about, you know, what, 16, 17 years after

7:13

that, they replaced

7:15

it with that, the Next step based Mac OS X,

7:17

and that's what we've had since then. So more than

7:19

half its life now. Yeah, in fact, if you look

7:21

at Next step, and this was on the famous Steve

7:23

Jobs, beautiful black

7:26

Next cube, you might

7:28

say, it looks a little familiar,

7:30

especially the column-based finder and all

7:32

of that. This is what got

7:34

ported over to the, apparently at the time

7:36

there was some debate inside of Apple whether

7:38

they should buy BOS or

7:41

Next step. A BOS was

7:43

beautiful and did

7:45

run on Mac hardware, but

7:48

Steve Jobs came with Next step. He was kind

7:50

of bundled in with Next step, and I think

7:52

Next step was the right choice. And

7:55

they had a lot of any and a bunch of

7:57

other great people. John Rubenstein. All right, Birkin on

7:59

the ground. We have to do this.

8:01

So from in Nineteen Eighty Four

8:03

Apple released on on. January

8:06

twenty fourth. Forty.

8:08

Years ago. Tomorrow. The. The

8:11

first Mack is this the original? One

8:13

Hundred Twenty Eight came back as John

8:15

Swinney his original. You can see it's

8:17

yellowed beautifully, that beautiful patina of age.

8:19

And we have a booted this since

8:21

I since. Twenty Thirteen

8:24

on the thirtieth anniversary. So every ten years

8:26

we have a promise to Atlanta be some

8:28

interesting smells to put his eyes are glad

8:30

birth. Of

8:32

our drive. you start. We've turned on our drivers.

8:35

You been are like a wooden spoons you can

8:37

switch protest. Nice Up there is the beep. I

8:39

heard that the he heard the beep. Or

8:42

I you might him. Everything good for you. We.

8:45

Are now watch me most is it

8:47

is booting from a how big is

8:49

the hard drive to and a megabyte aftermarket

8:51

hard drive. Who made it? You member

8:53

en masse See him and he got

8:55

us. Does he poured? Oh. Oh.

8:58

Is that a sad max that? it's

9:01

Know it doesn't. It's unseemly disc. Who

9:04

maybe has a buddhist yet there? Has

9:08

to work by here. Sound adhere to hard

9:10

drives. Yeah, about as an actual mechanical hard

9:12

drive. South sold save replace are we have

9:14

some emerged in a way. for now, we.

9:20

Can ah well as he always am by

9:22

his peers. Not mine shaft which means that

9:24

could be looking at something and my review

9:26

have let's let's see my eye on it.

9:28

It's an old man and like that. There's

9:31

a there's a now i think on floppy move.

9:33

It actually relegated to the floppy drive Us are

9:36

you're lying is in a while ago yeah I'm

9:38

using an input nasty card with disk images on

9:40

there and it'll boots. It'll also emulate has a

9:42

when we by hard drive has a back on

9:44

floppy. Is. Alex

9:47

got this forum so that. He

9:50

does. It's dollars to use it

9:52

is your hard drive shot is empty

9:54

your pockets or Weymouth is anything happening

9:57

Now Now this is worse than our

9:59

supposed. The mouse is working. So

10:02

here's the floppy. Kids, if

10:04

you're under 40, this thing is older

10:06

than you, so no

10:09

wonder it's having a hard time waking up. We'll

10:12

get it. Well, he got

10:14

an aftermarket SCSI port put on his Mac

10:17

128K so that he could have that CMS

10:19

80 Meg, not gig. I

10:24

could fit one shot from my Sony R7 on

10:27

that, Alpha 7 on that. He's

10:31

got a 20 Megabyte hard drive. He's

10:37

going to try. We're going to keep working

10:39

on it. Do

10:42

you remember, Andy, buying your first Mac?

10:47

Yes. There's no way in hell I could

10:49

afford it. So what happened was

10:51

I used to work. In New

10:53

England, there was a chain of department stores

10:55

called Leech Mirror. I used to

10:57

work in the computer department. This

11:00

is back when teenage employees were

11:02

not well supervised. They were very well trusted,

11:05

which was their mistake. I

11:08

got my first Mac. It was a 512K Mac

11:10

that I bought for, I think, $77.77 in

11:12

the 85, 86, 87, or 88. The

11:21

reason why was because the top

11:24

was kind of broken off. Maybe

11:28

somebody who had access to tools and

11:30

knowledge might have unplugged the logic board

11:32

internally and then put it back together.

11:36

We were required to put things that were out

11:38

of the box on a shelf

11:40

for discounts. The

11:44

longer it stayed on the shelf, the more discounts they

11:46

would drop it down to until it got down

11:48

to $0.77, which means that give

11:50

us any money, we will take it. So yes, what

11:53

could have been a good $1,000 secondhand Mac Plus? I

11:58

kneecapped so that I could get it for what...

12:00

teenager working at a department store after school. How

12:02

about you, Steven? You're not old enough to have bought

12:04

the first Mac, I think. No, I was

12:06

late to the game. It was 2005 for me. My

12:10

first one was a 12-inch G4 PowerBook.

12:14

You could have bought the 20th anniversary. 12-inch

12:16

PowerBook, so great. The

12:18

PowerBook, I saw someone at college have it my freshman year and

12:20

I was like, I don't even know what that is because I

12:22

was not in the Apple world at the time. And I just,

12:24

I knew I needed it. I don't know why. I

12:27

didn't know what I was gonna do with it. I was like, I

12:29

have to have that computer. I remember showing my

12:31

father-in-law the color screen

12:33

on, this is one of the PowerBooks. This

12:36

is a later one, I think. The color

12:38

screen on the PowerBook and saying, look at

12:40

that, because we hadn't seen, we'd only had

12:43

black and white screens up until

12:45

that point. So this was a big deal. Look

12:48

at that track ball. So

12:51

1984, Jason Snell, where were you? I

12:57

was in Sonora, California using an Apple II.

12:59

It's where I was. And

13:04

I didn't really use a Mac until college. We

13:09

used them in high school to do like

13:11

typesetting where we literally just type in our

13:13

stories for our newspaper and print

13:15

them in. But no, we didn't even do that.

13:17

We literally were just printing out things and cutting

13:19

them up for the high school newspaper and pasting

13:21

them down. But in college, we

13:23

use PageMaker and that's where I fell in

13:25

love. I had just gotten

13:27

Macs. They needed people who were

13:30

gonna be comfortable learning them. I was very

13:32

comfortable learning them. And I fell in love

13:34

to the point where by the

13:36

end of my sophomore year in college, I had started my

13:38

sophomore year at that newspaper,

13:41

I had gone to the college bookstore. And back in those

13:44

days, people who have been

13:46

college students in the last 15 years

13:48

will not understand, the college

13:50

discounts used to be real good. They're not

13:52

anymore, but they used to be like 40%

13:56

because they wanted to get you in the family. And then they wanted

13:59

to hook you. Exactly. So

14:01

I was, and I had this Apple II, I

14:03

was just, I had stopped using it. I essentially

14:05

would go to the newspaper office and get on

14:07

a Mac SE there and write my papers

14:10

and things because I didn't want to use the Apple II

14:12

anymore. So I went to a

14:14

college bookstore, they were having a sale plus the

14:16

discount on the Mac SE. It

14:18

was because the Mac Classic was going to be

14:20

coming in a few months, which was honestly not

14:22

much, not any better than the Mac SE. And

14:25

I got that Mac SE and I loved it. So that

14:27

was the first. I dipped into my own

14:30

college bank account

14:32

that I had, wrote the check

14:34

myself. So that one, against perhaps

14:37

the advice, my parents would probably not have approved of that,

14:40

but I'm like, no, I have to do it. And it

14:42

was absolutely the right decision to do it because I had

14:44

moved on and really the rest

14:46

is history. I've never looked back. You're

14:49

not kidding about those college discounts. My first new

14:51

Mac was a Mac Plus, which I bought because

14:53

I think the price was something like $2,000 at

14:55

the time, but the college discount price was something

14:58

like $800 or $900, which I

15:04

could barely swing. And

15:06

I gamed the system. I

15:09

went to Northeastern University, went to their

15:11

college listings and found out that A,

15:13

if you're taking any classes, they will

15:15

issue you a college ID. And

15:17

the cheapest one credit course is like $200 and

15:20

something dollars. So I signed up for a course

15:22

and I don't even know what it was. Just

15:25

for, I spent $250 to get like a $1,100 discount

15:28

so I could actually afford this. We

15:31

do have fortunately the very

15:33

illegal third market

15:35

Torx screwdriver. The

15:38

reason it's so long is because Steve didn't

15:40

want you to open it. And deep inside

15:42

that Mac, there are Torx screws. So

15:47

John, apparently you think it's the machine that's

15:49

not booting because that was a serious ROM

15:51

error you had over there. That

15:53

was the hard drive. Bad

15:58

hard drive. Yeah. Advantages

16:00

to open it up and put that new you

16:02

want but the new floppy in. Often

16:07

enough we are, but you know the clock

16:09

is ticking on the rinse To repair

16:11

of the forty year old Mackintosh will

16:13

see we can get it limping I remember,

16:16

And eighty three. I

16:18

was working at Det insp it T

16:20

L okay radio on Saturday so I

16:22

was what was I? as twenty seven

16:24

I was an adults have some muscles

16:26

in your guests so I was an

16:28

adult. So. In a three I

16:30

would walk by the computer store. In

16:32

there was a Lisa. In.

16:35

The window and had press. I almost

16:37

literally press my nose against the glass.

16:39

Gonna wish I could afford that. Bruce

16:42

Ten thousand dollars. I wanted that so

16:44

bad. but see, that set me up.

16:47

Because. Then they and as Mackintosh and

16:49

even January twenty Fourth, I was in

16:51

a second oscillate and I just I

16:53

couldn't bring myself to do it's but

16:55

I am one hundred they are. They're

16:57

there. For a while they would honor

16:59

people. Bought a Mac within the first

17:01

hundred days. As the early adopters, I

17:04

finally got enough gumption to go down

17:06

to Macys in Union Square in San

17:08

Francisco. And use my

17:10

mischarge guard at as it was twenty

17:12

five hundred dollars. and by the way.

17:14

That's. In Nineteen Eighty Four Dollars. So that

17:17

is probably closer to ten thousand dollars to

17:19

there's a lot of money. Seventy Three hundred.seventy

17:21

three hundred dollars. Now give you an idea

17:23

of this is like not as reveal purchase

17:25

and a leave my new vision prose for

17:28

this Silesia is like the Lisa Cost. Thirty.

17:30

Thousand Dollars was Nottingham Forest, earrings it into

17:33

a today's my day and ten back in

17:35

i live three yeah but into as many

17:37

as thirty grand so it's basically like a

17:40

car. The Mack was the affordable computer and

17:42

it still what we would think of today's

17:44

seventy from crazy. But. i

17:46

on amazon tell my card because i

17:48

wanted that one twenty eight came acts

17:50

and it was very under powered but

17:53

it was the first three m computer

17:55

a mega pixel south the screen megabyte

17:57

of memory and a member the third

17:59

and was probably a megahertz

18:01

but megahertz, 100 megahertz or something. What

18:04

was the processor? It was a 68000.

18:06

Motorola's 68000. And it was running at,

18:09

I can't remember, maybe

18:11

not many megahertz.

18:14

8 megahertz.

18:17

But it was a great, that was a

18:19

great processor. I wrote assembly code for this

18:22

processor and unlike the x86,

18:25

which was the current at the time that the

18:27

PC had already come out three years earlier. It

18:30

didn't have segmented memory, it had flat memory models. You

18:32

could write to all the memory without any fooling around

18:34

with segments. So it was really easy. It

18:36

was fun to write for. It

18:40

wasn't fun to use though. People forget

18:42

that like, one of the biggest ones

18:44

is swap floppies, remember that? The

18:47

reason why, like you could do an upgrade to the 512K Mac simply by

18:51

pulling out all of the low bit chips of the

18:53

128K motherboard and putting in 512K laptops.

18:56

That shows you that they really,

19:00

they were kind of desperate to get the price

19:02

done where it had to be. And so as

19:04

a result Mac write had like a limitation of

19:06

I think nine pages. Almost

19:08

anything that you did would involve like, oh

19:10

God, the swap of death. Where, okay, spit out

19:12

your system disk, put in your app disk,

19:14

spit out your app disk, put in your system

19:17

disk, put in your, as it kept like

19:19

trying to have to swap and load things

19:21

in and out of memory all the time.

19:23

There was, and this was at a time

19:25

when PCs were fairly, fairly the Apple

19:27

II line was 100% mature. The PC line, the MS-DOS line was

19:29

100% mature. So there

19:36

was a reason why you were a Mac

19:38

owner, a user, and it wasn't

19:40

because you wanted the most value for

19:42

money or the most efficient or it's

19:46

easy to use in some ways. Absolutely

19:49

drove you up a tree and others,

19:51

but that's why we were happy. We

19:54

were happy campers. Is this Alex Gumpel

19:56

memorabilia? John, this box, this came with

19:58

the 120. 98k

20:00

Mac just to give you an idea this before Apple

20:02

really got packaging You

20:04

saved it yeah, you remember the cassettes so

20:07

this is a cheesy plastic box So

20:10

Apple got rid of that which is a

20:12

good thing and inside John I'm amazed

20:14

at your impulse control all of the

20:17

stickers nice still the little Tri-fold

20:20

how to use it and back when the PCs

20:22

were big You know Apple made

20:24

a lot of hay and the fact that you could

20:26

you could use this computer by just looking at this

20:29

pamphlet And yeah

20:31

cassette what was on the cassette? It was an audio

20:33

cassette. It must have been wasn't data

20:35

right? Oh, you've guided to know it was just it

20:37

was yeah It was like an audiobook that would like

20:40

it would be it would be a video It would be a

20:42

setup video right now and John

20:45

even saved his floppy disk labels

20:50

But the floppy disks are gone they're used to

20:52

boot it isn't this cool. I mean why you

20:55

got I don't I don't I don't have a

20:57

128 I do have like the very

20:59

first like piece of software for the Macintosh ever

21:01

I have no idea what happened to my 128

21:04

Oh look at that. What is that? Oh Alice? This

21:06

is yeah through the looking glass that was

21:09

He's one that one is open one is still

21:11

sealed, but yeah, that was it was like a

21:13

slideshow, right? No, no, it was

21:15

a chess game. Oh, that's right.

21:18

It's impossible to play because it

21:20

moved so freaking fast Did

21:22

Steven caps right that I think he did

21:24

yeah, it actually says by Steve caps right

21:26

on the day. Yeah, only Wow Yeah,

21:29

so this is one of the demo programs. Obviously they had

21:31

to write a bunch of stuff because nobody else Oh, no,

21:33

this wasn't a demo. This was commercial. So no, I know

21:36

I'm saying But if but he

21:38

was an apple when he wrote it and I think

21:40

it was just art to show what you could do

21:42

Here's the boot disk. This is no, this is a

21:44

guided tour. So came on floppy. Look at all these

21:47

how big we're okay Here's a test for you Historians

21:51

how big were these floppies? Okay,

21:54

four hundred me, okay Four

21:57

hundred K and then eventually they made double

22:00

sighted and eventually they

22:02

got to a little bit more. What

22:04

for? No one ever was going to

22:06

use 800k of storage. 400 kilobytes

22:09

but the operating system was on there.

22:12

I don't remember, I think you had

22:14

to boot to multiple disks when you were booting the fly.

22:16

Oh yeah. So you'd stick disk in

22:18

one end and go nr, rr, rr, rr, rr, rr, and

22:20

it had an ejector. You

22:22

couldn't pull the disk out. It wasn't like it pulled.

22:24

You may have just one. Yeah. More

22:28

control to check. And then you would take it out and put the

22:30

next one in, put in disk to, nr, nr, nr, nr, nr, nr,

22:32

and I don't remember how many disks it was but it was a

22:34

lot of work. And then copying stuff was

22:36

a lot of work because your operating

22:38

system and your program

22:40

like Mac Right, which came, Mac

22:42

Paint and Mac Right came in the early days, you

22:46

would put that in and then you'd have to

22:48

eject that to save your file. And

22:51

the copy files you'd have to swap, it was a nightmare. This

22:53

is why John bought that. I'm

22:55

sure very expensive CMS external hard

22:57

drive. Wow.

22:59

That was very, very big. And also

23:02

it shows you again the weirdness of early

23:04

Mac users that of course the entire philosophy

23:06

of the Mac is that this is a

23:08

sealed box that you will never ever as

23:11

a user get inside because you have no

23:13

business being in there. Of course it's not

23:15

expandable. Why on earth could you improve upon

23:17

the perfection of the engineering we put inside

23:19

here? That's why we made you go to

23:21

an auto parts store to find the weird

23:24

screwdriver that let you crack it open. And

23:26

yet within a year or two there were

23:28

companies that, okay, what if we

23:30

created sort of like a big clothespin

23:36

with connectors on it that

23:39

you could clip onto the

23:41

actual CPU itself to add

23:44

an external display, to add a hard

23:46

drive, to add an accelerator. And it

23:48

was the scariest thing in the entire

23:50

damn world because it was also how

23:52

a lot of us learned that, oh,

23:56

so that CRT2 carries a

23:58

thunder kick killing. level of

24:00

electricity even when it's powered off. Okay, good

24:02

to know. And of

24:04

course eventually the clip would sort of like weaken

24:07

or like pop off and suddenly everything would crash

24:09

like in the most glorious

24:11

fashion because your computer would be very, very

24:13

confused. The idea of

24:15

an accessory of, hi, I'd like

24:17

to be able to like run

24:19

DOS software. Okay, just put it

24:21

into this PC dock so

24:24

you can have the ability to use your keyboard

24:26

and your screen of your $3,000 computer to use

24:28

what is now a $5,000 computer. You

24:33

can always tell when people will do

24:36

crazy silly things to do something with

24:38

a piece of hardware or software that

24:40

the designers never intended or maybe even

24:42

were trying to actively make you not

24:44

do, you know that you got something

24:46

there because someone has an investment that

24:48

goes far beyond the amount of money.

24:51

So the Super Bowl ad

24:53

was January 22nd. That's

24:56

because the Super Bowl is a lot earlier back in

24:58

the good old days and the

25:00

Mac came out the two days later, the

25:02

24th you could actually buy it. And

25:06

as you pointed out, it was

25:08

extremely expensive purchase at

25:10

the time. There

25:12

wasn't a lot of software for it. It

25:14

came with MacPaint, right? And MacRight. MacPaint

25:17

was what Steve Jobs showed when

25:19

he first showed the Macintosh. Oh,

25:22

we're working on it. We're taking it apart.

25:24

It's very, very exciting here, ladies and gentlemen.

25:27

Careful of that too, Burke. You know, it's

25:29

a capacitive device. It can hold

25:31

electricity. I

25:34

notice he's not even wearing a wrist strap,

25:36

but you are standing on a giant rubber

25:39

box, right? I don't know what

25:41

he's doing. I think he's not insulated or anything.

25:43

Here's Steve with the... Susan

25:47

Kerr, I think, did this beautiful picture

25:49

of a Japanese woman brushing her hair.

25:52

Of course, a famous Japanese painting with Susan Kerr

25:54

had to do it pixel by pixel in MacPaint.

25:57

She was an expert at that. It came with

25:59

MacPaint. came with Mac right. Microsoft

26:01

jumped on the bandwagon pretty quickly by

26:04

April. Microsoft had a

26:07

copy of its program,

26:09

was it Word? I guess

26:11

it was Word back in the day, still is. And

26:15

Multiplan, which was their, which

26:17

pre-excel spreadsheet, this is

26:19

according to Wikipedia. Microsoft

26:22

Word, I'm sorry, Multiplan came out

26:24

in April, migrated from

26:26

MS-DOS and Microsoft Word January, 85

26:29

a year later. Macintosh Office

26:31

Suite came out same year.

26:34

That was the Lemmings ad. So

26:38

after insulting IBM users with the 1984

26:40

ad, they really doubled down and

26:44

had, apparently these were PC users jumping off

26:46

a cliff because they were

26:48

all following one another. Wow, the

26:50

ad did not work according to Wikipedia.

26:54

It was, the entire launch is kind of noteworthy

26:56

because of exactly how well thought

26:58

out it was because you knew the stories of

27:00

all of the key engineers who went into it.

27:02

They were like studio photos of

27:05

like almost like a class picture of

27:07

them. Yeah, kind of just deep for

27:09

doing that because that was back in the day when

27:11

they didn't really tell you who had made your software,

27:13

who had made your hardware. Everybody signed the back of

27:15

it. That was pretty darn cool. In fact, hey, do

27:17

you have the case there? Is it open? Can

27:19

we, once you get the case

27:21

open, let's look inside. This is like,

27:23

remember the Francis Ford Coppola movie Tucker

27:26

where they're announcing the brand new car

27:28

up front with the dancing girls. Meanwhile,

27:30

on the back, they're desperately hammering and

27:32

putting wood into the suspension. Yeah. So

27:35

you have to feel like some of that would roll out. John,

27:37

can you see inside the plastic of the case? As

27:41

soon as you get that, okay,

27:43

it's still attached by a variety

27:46

of cables. As soon as they can, we'll

27:48

look. This was something interesting because you

27:50

were never ever intended to do what we're doing, which

27:52

is open this thing up. Right.

27:54

Steve, in fact, designed it that way. He didn't want

27:56

anybody going inside it. This is

27:59

Steve Jobs in his hails. day where you

28:01

know no users going inside my device

28:03

but nevertheless he got the designers

28:06

to sign the plastic of

28:08

the case the molds for

28:10

the plastic I wonder why do you think he thought

28:12

someday like now 40 years later

28:15

people would be opening it up and go oh look

28:17

Andy Hertzfeld Steve

28:19

caps I think

28:21

the line was all our all artists signed their

28:23

work ah yeah

28:26

great artists ship he also said they

28:30

had a pirate flag up on the on

28:33

this building was kind of apart

28:35

from the infinite loop campus yes

28:38

I guess Steve Levy's like original book

28:40

on the development of the Macintosh is

28:42

still like just great reading even if

28:45

it's not out of date at all because just

28:47

such good storytelling it really is all about how

28:49

like Apple the

28:51

the the grown-ups where Apple was

28:53

at a state where the board wanted a quote

28:55

grown-up unquote to be running the company that was

28:57

not in their eyes gonna be Steve Jobs so

29:00

the grown-ups who are running the company were like pushing

29:02

Steve Jobs into the oh isn't that nice

29:04

the founder is still with the company and

29:07

he's still like helping isn't that adorable they'll

29:09

be great for like interviews and stuff like

29:11

that and Steve Jobs was like no you

29:13

don't understand I'm not

29:15

trapped in here with you you're trapped in here

29:17

with me and he deliberately went

29:19

out to say okay give me my own

29:21

engineering group oh sure great have your own

29:24

little project and his project was I'm going

29:26

to undermine the Lisa by making a version

29:28

of it that is better than

29:30

it less expensive more attractive and more

29:33

marketable and how about that and that's

29:35

why there was a there was a pirate flag on top of

29:37

the building because they were on their own unit answerable

29:39

to pretty much nobody because and he

29:41

was stealing people from up from Apple

29:43

from the Apple II division stealing people

29:45

from wherever it's quite a story

29:48

here is to point out here something of

29:50

them yeah oh look

29:53

at that yeah so and by the

29:55

way there is something you can you can wash this

29:57

with to get the yellow away but I don't think

29:59

you should So where are the

30:01

signatures in here? They were beige

30:03

to begin with. Yeah, these were

30:05

not this color. Yeah, but they were

30:07

more than... They

30:10

weren't white. They were already... They were

30:12

a little yellow. Oh yeah, he would

30:14

have never done white. So where are

30:16

the... Oh,

30:19

you have to put it right back. Oh, I see it. I

30:22

don't know if you guys are going to be able to see it because it is

30:25

very finely embossed. But

30:27

if I put... Now, do you have an over the head? He's

30:31

thinking the over head shot. Oh, I have it upside down, so

30:34

we want to see the people's names. I'm going

30:36

to have to turn it right side up. Yeah,

30:39

I thought... You know, I've never seen this. I

30:41

never got inside one of these. But

30:43

you can kind of see when I shine the light like this.

30:46

There's Andy Hertzfeld, right there.

30:50

Let's see if I can... If I move this... Where

30:53

can you see better? Oh,

30:55

well, you can kind of see that there's signatures there. Where's

30:59

Steve's signature I'm looking? His

31:03

signature is pretty... Probably at the top, you

31:05

would think, right? No, I

31:07

think it's... I remember it being

31:09

lower right, quadrant. There's Daniel Kotky,

31:11

who is Steven's roommate and wrote

31:14

the technical documentation. For

31:16

it didn't get any stock, either. Wozniak

31:18

famously gave Kotky some of

31:20

his. But this

31:22

is in the early days of Apple. Am

31:25

I remembering the quote right? Again, one of those

31:27

famous Steve Jobs stories. About where, oh, well, we

31:30

kind of feel as though some of these employees

31:32

who founded the company, kind of got screwed out

31:34

of stock options. So we're all kicking in like

31:36

the equal amount to the pool. And

31:38

Steve Jobs said, great, I'll kick in

31:40

zero. Zero is my kick in. Yeah,

31:42

they went... Here's Jeff Raskin's name. Now,

31:44

he really deserves a lot of credit

31:46

because even though he was

31:49

kind of on the outs by the time

31:51

the Macintosh came out, he was the one

31:53

who said, we want to make an appliance

31:55

computer. Yeah, started the project and let

31:57

it until Steve took it over. Yeah. And

32:00

he came up with an Macintosh, I believe, right?

32:03

I can't remember. This Haphorn. Wow,

32:05

this is really cool. I still don't see Steve Jobs'

32:07

name, but I guess that's fitting because

32:09

of the famous, wonderful people that I am

32:11

seeing on here. There's

32:14

what looks like Bill Atkinson, of course, who's a

32:17

great guy and still very active

32:19

in the community. I always

32:21

wondered what happened to the art master. What

32:23

they did was they passed around an engineering

32:26

piece, an engineering plot that had like the

32:28

part that was going to be made, so it

32:30

was just a piece of paper, and they

32:32

just passed it around the entire team over however

32:34

many days, and everybody actually physically signed this

32:36

one thing. And then they turned

32:38

that into basically an offset. They

32:41

basically used that as a mold, wherever there

32:43

was ink, that would be like a cutout

32:46

in the mold so that plastic would fall into

32:48

it and that would be like the embossing. But

32:50

I've always wondered what happened to the original piece

32:52

of paper that has the signatures of Steve Jobs

32:54

and everybody who worked on it. That

32:56

would be... Maybe somebody

32:59

is saying, I'm not even saving this for when

33:01

I need to build a house or send kids

33:03

to college. I'm saving this in case I need

33:05

desperate medical care. I think they should put

33:07

it on the computer. Voyager 7 or something,

33:09

you know, send it out. And

33:14

grave it on a piece of gold and ship it

33:16

out to be on the rim. Really

33:18

people might be wondering why we're making such

33:20

a big deal about the 40th anniversary, but

33:23

it really humanized computing. IBM's

33:26

PC came out in 1981 and it

33:28

was intended for your desktop. I

33:31

had one and it was very much a desktop computer.

33:34

But everybody kind of looks to Apple to

33:36

make computing human

33:38

scale, not for business, something

33:41

you might want to have in your home. All

33:43

consumer personal computers at that point. We

33:46

can asterisk because they were like... Oh,

33:48

the Commodore's and the V20. Yeah,

33:50

but all of them. And the Apple

33:52

II, right? Apple's own computer. They're all

33:54

command line computers. So

33:56

The real revelation and people don't

33:59

even... Understand is now

34:01

was. This. Idea that you

34:03

had a graphic interface and a mouse

34:06

or other point in a pointer control

34:08

device and a menu bar and

34:10

everything with visual instead of literally the

34:12

only thing being like a terminal

34:14

window that you typed commands into the

34:17

max did that and it was

34:19

ticking against the tide and it's hook

34:21

years. look for people to understand

34:23

that interface and by the really took

34:25

until Microsoft. Did. Windows and

34:27

then everybody sort of got with a

34:29

program but like met the mack was.

34:32

The. Only one and then amiga. Ah

34:34

came in and they have the Amiga from

34:37

Commodore was similar but like it was an

34:39

outlier. it with we ain't one in the

34:41

and it was right right but in the

34:43

at that time it was not so certain.

34:45

Even inside apple the Apple to still sold

34:47

really well people.people think now like. Once

34:50

the max him out the apples it

34:52

was dropped. The Apple Two E was

34:54

incredibly positive. A popular it was the

34:57

driver of Apple revenue Apple released to

34:59

completely new Apple Two bottles after the

35:01

match was and I remember the and

35:03

the tutsi as of when I read

35:06

Thousand Nine Gym for Apple him event

35:08

called Apple To Forever. At. The

35:10

must enter So here's do for his

35:13

interviews deemed china he can really see

35:15

if they're Steve Jobs that you out

35:17

of thing to said it's middle middle

35:19

column, fourth down and there it is.

35:23

Are denied Marcy for not being the first

35:25

analysts not having it's not doing that, pulling

35:28

the John Hancock and having a Giants if

35:30

it's or said that of bottom but really

35:32

just being one of one of a team

35:34

and really was an incredible team. Of

35:37

super talented that people are. You

35:39

work their butts off. To

35:41

make this them. You. Know if everybody

35:43

to check out the Apple History project because

35:45

it has documenting all of the individual stories

35:48

of Against the Believe is because of is

35:50

amazing but now where is it was written

35:52

Not? This is it. Within the same sort

35:54

of generation of time as the as a

35:57

release for the Macintosh. this is people who

35:59

are we. Hire people are older celeb.

36:01

lots of perspective so if they might

36:03

have had like rose colored glasses at

36:05

the time, they no longer do if

36:08

they might have had resentments. Now the

36:10

see that with again the additional perspective

36:12

and context and there's it's Very. It's

36:14

a very very experiential sort of thing.

36:16

Hearing all these history and he hurts

36:19

help put this together. It's of folklore.org

36:21

Anecdotes about the development of Apple's original

36:23

Macintosh and the people made it is

36:25

a hundred twenty three. Stories.

36:28

Here. Most. Recent ah.

36:31

This is it looks like black And

36:33

since joining Apple computer. Is.

36:36

At the most recent. Like. A like

36:38

a bill ah says his this he

36:40

wrote this sir on the fortieth anniversary

36:42

of joining Apple Computer which had been

36:44

twenty team. So. But

36:46

just some amazing. Amazing.

36:48

Stuff He I've read it a read this

36:51

cover to cover be great but you

36:53

know I mean I guess I think the

36:55

been into the make a book could in

36:57

the revolution in the valley. Book: Il Tahoe

37:00

Contents of folklore.org Just incredible. And

37:03

oh yeah real enter it is is a picture

37:05

revolution in the valley A I guess it must

37:07

be insane li great story of how the map

37:09

was made and eve published it as a as

37:11

a book. Later. Nice.

37:14

And Riley I think that's part of the prepare

37:16

the press photos that they had. I am Lisbeth

37:19

get everybody together so you know the engineers. They've

37:21

even fever got another photo session together of. Again

37:24

for marketing purposes to make people think that

37:26

hey this isn't just a toy machine we've

37:28

actually got the the leading, the leading soffer

37:31

develop and companies in the world like supporting

37:33

us are you have like Bill Gates you

37:35

have three other for the Ceos had via

37:37

the that of Ceo of the can be

37:39

the publisher Pfs series all together in said

37:42

custom build golf shirts with their logos on

37:44

them like around the Macintosh to show hey

37:46

look a lot of with all the firepower

37:48

we've got behind this it was as I

37:51

think that. it's

37:53

it feels like a hallmark event

37:55

and how apple understood that you

37:57

can't just put it out there

38:00

and people will figure it out. You also

38:02

can't just simply, hey, we'll just make some

38:04

mass market commercials of, and while

38:06

dad's balancing his checkbook, mom is in

38:08

the kitchen looking up recipes. Like you

38:10

have to basically, here is the story

38:12

that we are telling through this machine,

38:15

and we're gonna tell you the story of it by giving

38:17

you the people

38:19

who actually put it together. It's kind of

38:21

a master stroke. Yeah, look at all the

38:23

names, many

38:25

of whom resonate still today, a

38:27

great team. Who

38:30

did a great thing. 40

38:33

years ago, the Macintosh came out, and

38:36

I'm the only one on the panel who had that original, no,

38:38

no, John had it, original 128K Mac that

38:41

was good for nothing. I think I bought a Mac Plus as

38:43

soon as they came out, and then the, was

38:45

there a 512K first, and then

38:47

the Mac Plus? Yeah. Yeah. Slowly, I

38:50

probably owned almost every Mac from

38:52

day one. Yeah. At

38:55

the Boston Computer Society, there used to be

38:57

like soldering parties where people would club together

38:59

to buy the 512K chips, and

39:03

because you had to order them in quantity

39:06

to get like in any way a good

39:08

discount, and then because not everybody

39:10

had desoldering tools, not everybody knew how to

39:12

solder, it would be just three

39:15

tables full of boards and people laboriously

39:17

one contact at a time removing the old

39:20

chips, one contact at a time soldering in

39:22

the new chips, and then praying to God

39:24

that it posts when you turn it back on

39:27

again, because you bridge one thing, and

39:29

that could be it for the entire motherboard. Like

39:31

that's how insane a lot of people originally were,

39:33

or also how annoyed they were about all the

39:35

disk swaps. This is from

39:38

Wikipedia. Apple spent $2.5 million purchasing all

39:41

39 advertising pages in

39:44

a special post-election issue of Newsweek,

39:47

and ran a test drive of Macintosh promotion in

39:49

which potential buyers of the credit card, I didn't

39:51

know this, could take home a Macintosh for 24

39:53

hours and return it

39:55

to a dealer afterwards. 200,000 people, more than bought the...

40:00

Pro, 200,000 people participated.

40:02

Dealers disliked the promotion, the supply of computers

40:05

was insufficient for demand, and many were returning

40:07

such bad condition they could no longer

40:09

be sold. This marketing campaign caused John

40:11

Scully, the CEO at the time, to raise

40:14

the price from $2,000 to $2,500. Computers sold

40:18

well nonetheless, reportedly outselling the IBM

40:20

PC Junior, but it's

40:25

rubber, chicklet keys, which also began shipping early that

40:27

year. One dealer reported a backlog of more than

40:29

600 orders for the Mac. By

40:31

April 84, the company had sold 50,000 Macs

40:35

and hoped for 70,000 by early May and

40:37

almost a quarter of a million by the end of the year. Another

40:40

thing worth mentioning, you mentioned

40:42

the PC, the IBM PC, but like

40:45

this is the it's not the era

40:47

before PCs, but it is the era

40:49

before PC clones, so it's

40:51

still an era where every computer is different

40:54

and it's its own platform, and the Mac

40:56

that benefited from that until that moment where

40:58

the PC clones came in and then Windows

41:00

came on top of it and then it

41:02

became this kind of a minority platform, but

41:04

you can see why they said the computer for

41:06

the rest of us, like not having it be

41:08

a command line where you have

41:10

to guess or look at a manual, you

41:13

can like explore with the mouse and all

41:15

the menu, all the commands exist in that

41:17

menu structure, like these were the huge leaps

41:19

forward that made it much more friendly for

41:22

like regular people. I mean they were they

41:24

weren't wrong and they were the only ones

41:26

out there with it at the at the start. There

41:28

were clones

41:31

didn't become a really big deal until the

41:33

FAC 512 came out. There were some, it

41:35

didn't have the very beginning to the very first, the first mess

41:37

mark, the first ones were 1982, but it was barely compatible. That

41:43

was the compact. 1983, 1984.

41:45

Yeah, but they picked up momentum and then I

41:47

mean then the Mac went being one

41:50

of a bunch of weird operating

41:52

systems to being the minority

41:54

platform where the majority platform was

41:56

the PC and that, that, that,

41:58

I mean I was about the other day, in

42:02

some ways this is the

42:04

best time ever for the

42:06

Mac because the Mac

42:08

was always under threat, right? It

42:11

was not the big computer at

42:13

Apple. It was because the

42:15

Apple II, it was not PC

42:17

compatible. And then Windows 95 really

42:20

put it in the ground in

42:22

a lot of ways. It

42:24

got back on its feet with

42:26

the iMac and then the iPod

42:28

halo effect that got rehabbed Apple's

42:30

brand. And

42:33

then they had the PowerPC problems where they were

42:35

behind Intel. It was really the Intel processor

42:38

transition that got the Mac sort of to

42:40

parity in a lot of ways. And

42:43

then the Apple silicon transition has taken

42:45

into the stratosphere. But the

42:47

Mac was always kind

42:49

of an underdog throughout

42:51

most of its life. Yeah,

42:56

I've been thinking a lot because of

42:59

the anniversary about how wonderful the whole

43:01

story is. Because

43:04

it's reductive to say, oh, and then Apple

43:06

smashed the window with the Macintosh

43:09

and nothing was the same

43:11

ever again. It's more interesting

43:14

to know about the greatest

43:17

tech demo of all time in like

43:19

1969, 1970, which showed off here is

43:22

research level hardware and software to show

43:24

what we think the future direction of

43:26

computing could be if lots of

43:28

things start to align. Then Xerox

43:30

said, okay, we took those ideas

43:33

and we made a commercial, albeit

43:35

industrial computer, the star

43:37

that will mouse keyboard documents,

43:39

things like that. Apple said, that's nice, but

43:41

that's really not a consumer product. We made

43:43

that into something that people could actually afford

43:46

and people would actually want to use. And

43:48

then Microsoft for all 18, 17, 16

43:52

year old Andy used to say about how

43:54

horrible Microsoft Windows is. Microsoft also did something

43:56

brilliant and an engineering triumph, which is, okay,

43:58

now let's try it. The figure out

44:00

how to make lists. Something Software: this

44:03

complex work on commodity hardware, not proprietary

44:05

hardware. Where's here is a bill of

44:07

a bill of materials that you will

44:09

have to buy if you assemble these

44:11

in the right order it will run

44:13

are operating system and it will eventually

44:15

find your printer and your scanner and

44:18

your modem. So it's everybody. Everybody took

44:20

the ball and moved down the road

44:22

on the fields to get us to

44:24

this point where we have Macintosh's and

44:26

God how horrible computing would be without

44:28

the presence of Macintosh's. We have

44:31

Windows machines and God how horrible computing would

44:33

be if we only could buy the stuff

44:35

that Apple decided to sell as a window

44:37

mouse or keyboard or advice. And now we've

44:39

got mobile devices and on top of that,

44:41

each with a part of that story the

44:43

cat told. It's amazing. Ah,

44:48

Well. Let's take a break and

44:51

that's the celebration. Woohoo! Has some cake in!

44:53

Were glad it exists. We are very glad

44:55

it exists. I hope it continues to exist.

44:58

In this in the state the disease is a wonderful thing up

45:00

you put it back together when a try to boot. It. Is

45:04

it's a brave binds here. Burke is an expert.

45:07

It is kind of stuff done something as. One.

45:10

Twenty Eight K Mack undergoing a little open

45:12

heart surgery but it will be. I hope

45:14

I admire people I met people have the

45:16

love for the original hardware. I'll I love

45:18

running the software in and and an emulation.

45:21

I did shows and on our by.org By

45:23

the way onset be putting a I didn't

45:25

I just don't have the patience for okay

45:27

I have to recap everything and also these

45:29

to these mechanical dry as are not going

45:31

to function Also speed control York on the

45:34

C R T Nice to be retooled. Also

45:36

everything's made of plastic or rubber in here

45:38

is degrading and off gassing and. basically

45:40

return coming back to jesus as component forms

45:42

as like they're people holsters actually of the

45:45

app the matter see of sorrow i put

45:47

on commercial i know but they are the

45:49

magazine of course as the most notorious case

45:51

of like i think of a backup battery

45:54

that solder to the board that just goes

45:56

to go to hell and corrodes the hell

45:58

out the entire boards There is so much

46:00

interest in saying, no, I don't want to just

46:02

use it as a case for a Raspberry Pi

46:04

running emulation. There are people who have made a

46:06

clone of the Mac of the Mac SE 30

46:09

board so that you

46:11

can depopulate what's

46:13

left of your board, install all those

46:15

components on this new brand new design

46:18

board and everything will plug in and

46:20

everything will be completely compatible. And it's

46:22

not it's not an emulation thing. It's

46:24

like, no, we wanted we basically re-engineered

46:26

the entire board so that it would

46:28

be component to component compatible. That

46:30

is dedication. That is love, man.

46:34

Got a couple of guys in our Discord

46:37

club, Twitter Discord, who are Apple veterans who

46:39

were there when Jobs was fired, were there

46:41

when the Mac was released. And of course,

46:44

there was a conflict between the Mac

46:46

division and John Scully's Apple 2 division.

46:48

And Scully saw all the money Apple 2

46:50

was making and all the money that Apple

46:53

Macintosh was costing. And that

46:55

really was the catalyst for firing

46:57

Steve and starting off

46:59

in a very bad note.

47:04

Very, very interesting stuff. I have to talk to these

47:06

guys, Don and Bobby. It's nice to have you in

47:08

our. I heard a beep. I

47:11

hear I heard a beep. Let's see what

47:13

that beep ends. I know. Was

47:16

the beep just was it a

47:18

power on self test or anything? No, it didn't

47:20

do anything. Just beeped. It's a

47:22

power on indicator that it's and then it goes

47:24

to the next screen. It's come a long way

47:26

from the beep to the bong. Although

47:30

most most Macs nowadays have that chime turned

47:33

off right up. I

47:35

think it come turned off. You don't want

47:37

to give away your position for the rest of the future.

47:41

All right. Let us take

47:43

a break. Come back when there is news, actually

47:45

quite a bit of news. Just as Apple

47:48

that we're celebrating the 40th anniversary of the

47:50

Macintosh, we're about to celebrate the first anniversary

47:52

of a brand new Apple

47:54

product. Not an anniversary, the birthday of a

47:57

brand new Apple product. We'll talk about that

47:59

in a bit, but first. A word

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where they got that information. Terrifying.

50:33

All right. Vision Pro time. Stephen, did

50:35

you order Vision Pro? I

50:39

did. And I got the one terabyte version.

50:41

Oh, you went all in. I went

50:43

all in because I didn't want to be a year in

50:45

and see a 20 foot wide window

50:47

in VR tell me my storage was full.

50:50

That's future proofing.

50:53

All right. Way to go. I

50:56

was really trying to get in store pickup

50:58

because I wanted an early appointment, but

51:00

at least here in central Florida, those

51:02

appointment times went very quick. Yeah, they did. The

51:04

payments were failing and then it would kick me

51:07

back over to schedule a new appointment time and

51:09

all the stores in like a 50 mile radius,

51:11

you know, got to the afternoon times very quickly.

51:13

So I was like, well, let's just deliver it

51:15

to me. So it's coming delivery. We'll

51:17

see. All right. Yeah. But did you order eyeglasses

51:19

for it? You were wearing glasses. I

51:22

did. I don't know if I should admit this on

51:24

the air, but I met an eye exam in a

51:27

little while. So I had a

51:29

prescription. It might not have been

51:31

as recent as I doctored.

51:33

No pun intended the prescription to be. But

51:35

anyway, I got the prescription. I got Zeiss.

51:38

And those actually, they approve the prescription like same

51:41

day. You know, I pre-ordered it Friday morning at

51:43

8 a.m. Also to

51:45

my prescription, maybe 10 minutes later. And then

51:47

I'd say about three hours

51:49

later, I got an email from Zeiss saying

51:51

it's being sent out. They'll be delivered February

51:53

2nd at the latest. So I got those

51:55

coming in. I got every accessory, you know,

51:57

which we didn't hear about it. $200

52:01

plastic travel case. I

52:03

mean I got it all I make videos about this

52:05

stuff. I got to get it all I got it

52:07

all. Spike is offering sexy battery holders. They're already third

52:09

party. I got the battery holder. Oh man, you did

52:12

it all. And the, there

52:14

was the other thing too. The bellcon thing. Yeah,

52:16

that was the battery holder. So I got it

52:18

all. I got everything. Well done. Bravo. What was

52:20

your final bill? Oh

52:23

my goodness. Well, I also got monthly AppleCare, but after that

52:25

I think it was probably like 4600. Cause

52:28

the accessories themselves is 500. Cause 200 for a battery, 200 for

52:30

the travel case, and

52:34

then like 50 for the bellcon thing. And

52:36

then yeah. It doesn't come with a

52:38

Vision Pro light seal. You have to order that for another

52:41

$200. No, it comes with that. It comes

52:43

with that. But you can buy an extra one. Oh

52:45

yeah, if you have a sweaty forehead. Yeah, sure. My

52:47

co-host Jason Aitken, he tried a Vision Pro

52:49

at WWDC and he was like that part

52:51

of the Vision Pro and they're probably going

52:54

to get nasty after an upper month. And

52:56

I don't know about the washability of those

52:58

things yet. So that's why they're selling them

53:00

separately as well. Excuse me,

53:02

but $199 is outrageous. As

53:05

is $199 for the travel

53:07

case. Outrageous. That's 50 cents

53:09

of plastic. That's so annoying. The

53:12

good news is that all the third party stuff

53:14

will be out. Yes, Aitken already has a case

53:16

for a lot less. Anyway, I'm glad

53:18

you... I thought it was interesting on the travel

53:20

case. I actually have it written out with the

53:22

Apple icon and then the words Vision Pro rather

53:25

than the word Apple Vision Pro. So it seems

53:27

to go both ways. But I also

53:29

don't know if you guys saw it today, the Apple

53:31

Store app. If you go

53:33

there, you can now do the

53:35

augmented reality Vision Pro in your

53:37

office or whatever. And so

53:39

I did that and like, it's going to be

53:41

pretty big. Like I did the AR thing. Oh

53:44

look, that's cool. And

53:46

that in the travel case, this

53:48

is not going to be very

53:50

travel of... I don't know. It's

53:52

not going to be easy to take around. It's going to be

53:54

pretty big. But you did it because it's your job and I

53:56

commend you for that. Andy, did

53:58

you buy... I

54:01

cannot afford 35. I posted

54:06

about this basically saying that I do

54:08

not begrudge somebody for having 3500 bucks

54:10

for a thousand bucks to spend on a flutter for this.

54:12

That's not me right now. I bought

54:15

the first Newton

54:19

message pad, I bought the first iPhone, I bought

54:21

the first iPad. All of those

54:23

passed a certain test that I put for whenever

54:25

I'm spending more than a burrito is worth of

54:27

money on tech. And the thing is

54:29

I can't see right now how the

54:32

Vision Pro is going to solve problems

54:34

for me, make my life easier or give

54:36

me more opportunities including creative opportunities like things

54:38

I would love to develop or things I'd

54:40

like to create. And finally number

54:44

four, my panic

54:46

play date doesn't do any of that stuff either

54:48

but I can swing 200 bucks for a play

54:50

date. If I'm spending 3500 bucks on something

54:53

it's going to be like on a really

54:55

great new set of monitors for my office,

54:59

a great new Mac, a great new... All these things

55:02

will help me again create

55:04

new things, have new ideas,

55:06

and explore. For now again I

55:08

say for now that doesn't mean that I'm judging the...

55:10

I'm prejudging the the Vision Pro as being something that's

55:13

not going to be worth 3500 bucks. If I again

55:15

if I was making

55:17

10 times as much money as I am

55:19

right now, yeah I'd be in with both

55:21

fists. But Andy you can have infinite monitors

55:24

at any time if you want all around

55:26

your office. That's the beauty of it. How

55:28

heavy? I don't see I don't I don't

55:30

need another... see my my

55:32

default setting in terms of sloth

55:34

and inertia is already... I mean

55:38

I don't need something that like is

55:40

gonna like me oh actually I could just like

55:42

basically be flat on my back on my bed

55:45

with a split keyboard playing

55:47

with basically using 18 different virtual

55:50

monitors. I like the idea

55:52

that occasionally like I need to get up and

55:54

walk. I like the idea that occasionally have to

55:56

like shift my focus from one thing to another.

56:00

I'm so looking forward to reports from people

56:02

like you and Jason and everybody else about

56:05

how it's going to be to actually use this

56:07

in a productive environment. I've seen a lot of

56:10

samples about here's what it would be like to be editing videos

56:12

in this and it looks, hey, great, I would love to have

56:14

like eight different monitors stretched

56:17

to exactly the right sizes that I want them to be

56:19

for every task I want to do. I'm

56:22

just not convinced. I

56:24

need the first-hand experience from other people

56:26

to say, but my workday is usually

56:28

like two or three hours of work

56:32

across two to four different work sessions

56:34

with maybe a half hour to an

56:36

hour break in between. Am

56:38

I going to want to wear this thing on

56:40

my face through even like a single three-hour workspace?

56:43

Jason, did you hedge

56:45

your bets and order one just in case you

56:47

don't get a review unit? Absolutely. I got up

56:49

at 5 a.m. to pay $4,000 for something. I

56:55

was really happy about it. I

56:58

was on the East Coast, so I got up at 8, went

57:00

through the whole thing, scanned my face. The

57:03

scanning is exactly like registering for FaceID. FaceID.

57:05

Got right to the end of it, gave

57:07

him my prescription, and then chickened

57:09

out. That I get. I

57:12

can't justify this. I had

57:14

somebody ask me, like, why did

57:17

you buy it? Why are you asking about buying it?

57:19

I think the answer is, look, this is a one

57:21

point of hardware that I, as

57:23

somebody who covers Apple, I decided

57:25

that I'm not going

57:27

to step off of a brand new Apple platform.

57:29

I got to be there like, Steven, it's very

57:31

much like I'm going to be

57:34

one of those people who's talking about this

57:36

in the early days and telling you what

57:38

the deal is. But if I was a

57:40

regular consumer, right, under

57:42

no circumstances should you buy this

57:44

as a regular consumer is like,

57:47

is it worth it for me? And not like, yeah, I want it.

57:49

I want it. It's new. It's

57:51

the new hotness. It's like

57:53

reviewers have experienced it. Like

57:55

there's a I know that

57:58

if you want to get it on the day of. going

58:00

to spend the money, you're going to get it. And a

58:02

lot of us are people who like want to be on

58:04

the bleeding edge. But for most people,

58:06

like you want to know all we know now

58:08

is what Apple wants us to know. Right.

58:11

And that's fine. That's marketing. But, and the

58:13

fact that they were able to sell out

58:16

of their whatever 80,000 on launch

58:18

day and they, and there are various estimates,

58:20

I think Ming-Chi Kuo has an estimate that they may have sold

58:23

180,000 of them, which is, is the demand

58:28

and is that all the demand there is? We don't know,

58:30

but here's the thing. I

58:32

think there will be more demand from

58:34

people who are sitting on the sidelines wanting to

58:36

know what the heck this thing is, but right

58:39

now, all we have is Apple's word

58:41

for it. And I

58:43

think we're going to learn a lot from people

58:45

like me and Stephen and goodness, all the youtubers

58:47

and everything else who are taking this plunge where

58:49

we're going to be honest and say what it

58:51

does and doesn't do well. And then

58:53

people will, I think there's a whole other wave of

58:55

people who are waiting for that. So I don't blame

58:57

anybody for saying that's a lot of money for something

58:59

where I have to take it on faith from

59:02

only Apple marketing about what this product is. By the

59:04

way, if you want to get it now,

59:06

there's a month, I think a month lag.

59:08

I checked the other day that was pushed

59:11

out till March. Uh, Micah

59:13

Sargent also ordered one. He has an in-store fitting, so

59:15

he'll, he'll be able to go into the store. Did

59:18

you get an in-store, uh, fitting Jason, or are you

59:20

getting your ship? No, no, I'm going to get a

59:22

ship here because I'm, I'm an anti social maniac. I

59:24

don't want to go my hour and watch a half

59:26

hour. And if it doesn't fit, then I've got the

59:28

Cordiman Airstore is where I set up the freeway. So

59:30

if it doesn't fit, I'll deal with it, but I don't want

59:32

to talk to them. We'll have Micah. I'm trying

59:34

to figure out if I get my camera crew in

59:37

with Micah to, to, I doubt they'll let me shoot

59:40

the delivery. But

59:42

anyway, go ahead, Stephen. It

59:44

was interesting thinking the Apple store app earlier today, it

59:46

actually said check back today at 3 PM

59:49

Eastern. So about 20 minutes ago for more

59:51

availability. And so it seemed I had

59:53

never seen that before for an Apple product. And so it

59:55

seems like maybe they're going to

59:57

open up some more in-store pickups. Uh, right

1:00:00

now as we record so if you see me

1:00:02

looking weird in every direction okay you can do

1:00:04

it just say hey I'm

1:00:07

doing it now oh you want you want

1:00:09

to get in store you should snap a

1:00:12

little spy camera on your forehead or something

1:00:15

and he's doing it like he's doing it he's doing

1:00:18

it now there you know the first game you have

1:00:20

to do that you have to order another one to

1:00:22

get it in store every time yeah every time

1:00:26

and you have to send him your phony

1:00:28

prescription there was my real prescription

1:00:31

my real person I know it works you can

1:00:33

see now the rules will work so

1:00:35

there are on eBay right

1:00:37

now 17,000 plus

1:00:41

listings for Vision Pro let me

1:00:44

see let's let's let's get it

1:00:46

in by sort by price just I'm

1:00:48

curious what the highest price is no

1:00:51

I'm not gonna buy 18,000 here we go

1:00:53

here's ten thousand dollars now

1:00:56

you'd have to be insane nine thousand dollars

1:00:58

don't do it don't do it if

1:01:01

you just short this is sorted more reasonably

1:01:04

by however I had it sorted before there

1:01:06

are even some at forty five hundred you know

1:01:10

there's there's I

1:01:14

mean I guess that's a thousand-dollar premium isn't it

1:01:16

yeah six thousand

1:01:19

dollars check

1:01:21

back later for availability by the way keep

1:01:24

checking okay here's one for twenty six

1:01:26

hundred dollars I think that that's probably

1:01:28

a lie I wouldn't buy it for

1:01:31

a thousand less no

1:01:33

yeah here's a two thousand dollar one

1:01:35

well for a terabyte I'm

1:01:38

gonna you know what that's such a good deal I'm

1:01:40

gonna go right too diddy one wouldn't

1:01:42

lie to me would he I think

1:01:48

we have to keep checking Ali Express to

1:01:51

see like how fast that they're making the

1:01:53

knockoff Android version of this that looks exactly

1:01:55

like that in this package exactly like that

1:01:58

I'm sure that I'm sure it's coming. They were.

1:02:00

Maybe when I rely on in Alberta back

1:02:02

so I am I will have the yeah

1:02:04

signing a week from. Tomorrow.

1:02:08

You'll get away from Friday or the you'll Get

1:02:10

It and so in two weeks. We'll.

1:02:12

Have our first of looks on the

1:02:14

show and of we're going to get

1:02:16

re Max was getting one. Ah,

1:02:19

I imagine Alex Lindsay will have one.

1:02:22

Jason. Will have one michael have and will

1:02:24

have a bunch of people sitting around the table

1:02:27

was scary eyes. Looking. At math

1:02:29

math sant wave of be the

1:02:31

only one looks normal. I'll.

1:02:35

Be very curious. I I personally have

1:02:37

very skeptical. one of the. Media's

1:02:40

Downsides Marker Min noted: this is that

1:02:42

spot a fine Netflix and you tube

1:02:44

of all declined to make a custom

1:02:46

app. For. The Vision

1:02:48

Pro this is their revenge. By the way,

1:02:50

for Apple's thirty percent the league in the

1:02:53

store. They're going here and have their or

1:02:55

to have their I Pad add available. They

1:02:57

withheld there I pad apps. Which. Them

1:02:59

opt out to get them out of

1:03:01

a store and they have done so.

1:03:03

Netflix recently inside Apple apparently had been

1:03:05

using the I pad our people inside

1:03:07

Apple and then suddenly they revoked bad

1:03:09

as well. So that is, that's weather

1:03:12

events. I mean it's web browser and

1:03:14

all that. but this is an example

1:03:16

of Apple not having like why? why

1:03:18

did they wanna support Apple's platforms? I

1:03:20

personally they feel like. The. Benefit is

1:03:22

to Apple. I'm not to them so I get

1:03:24

it. I think I think it's also a simple

1:03:26

case of the know that and look this of

1:03:28

the what's the upside for us. It's even if

1:03:30

you've even if you think that a sister Kate,

1:03:32

how how easy is gonna be to make an

1:03:34

Apple Vision Pro version of the Netflix app with

1:03:36

you? Too bad it's. Zoom. It's human

1:03:38

resources, It's money, resources, time as support resources but

1:03:41

even say well of all if to do was

1:03:43

like do nothing of people be able to run

1:03:45

the I pad up will know they're still going

1:03:47

to be people to be calling in Netflix Support

1:03:50

Youtube supporting. Have got Apple Vision Pro and this

1:03:52

is not working correctly. The way that I wanted

1:03:54

to as and offered is also the recent return

1:03:56

to what will probably be a max of five

1:03:59

hundred thousand jews the first year. I don't think

1:04:01

it's it's not like it's going to be like

1:04:03

a lifetime. The life of the product ban a

1:04:05

nation is Marla act or we got other things

1:04:08

to do with. we got our own like antitrust

1:04:10

suit that we're trying to fight here without our

1:04:12

own subscriber problems we're dealing with like we don't

1:04:14

need this and I'm and I'm glad. I'm glad

1:04:17

Apple and Disney to sit in a tree chaos

1:04:19

as I and seats. I'm glad like you're really

1:04:21

really happy to work each other on Vision Pro.

1:04:23

Have fun with it's enjoy these Safari experience on

1:04:25

Netflix because that's pretty much all we can do

1:04:28

here right now. I saw somewhere they. And

1:04:30

their art. at at this time one

1:04:32

hundred seventy a vision pro apps which

1:04:34

is a good number. It's been Alex

1:04:36

Lindsey's contention that this is the sing

1:04:38

a developer should jump on because the

1:04:40

people spend that much money for a

1:04:42

device or to be hungry for apps

1:04:44

to run on any price. So this

1:04:46

is a great opportunity for developer to

1:04:48

have app. Ready. I

1:04:50

don't think it pencils out unless you're so you're

1:04:52

up for like twenty or thirty bucks a head.

1:04:55

I don't think it pencils out necessarily and I

1:04:57

think he the counter argument might be that if

1:04:59

somebody weird a psychology thing here's somebody spend thirty

1:05:01

five hundred dollars or and up on a headset.

1:05:03

Maybe they actually a like do I really want

1:05:06

to throw more money if this thing rather than

1:05:08

I have all the money in the world them

1:05:10

it's a matter. However, I think one of the

1:05:12

arguments here is easier. As a small developer especially

1:05:14

to his first thought is you will get Apple's

1:05:16

attention and that's a. In. This case

1:05:18

a good thing. you'll get Apple's marketing

1:05:21

attention. There a lot of developers out

1:05:23

there who adopt new Apple platforms and

1:05:25

new Apple features on day one or

1:05:27

before day one and they get promoted,

1:05:29

they get used and videos they get

1:05:31

on stage wwdc. There are benefits to

1:05:33

being in Apple's good graces about marketing.

1:05:35

and secondly, if you've got a bunch

1:05:37

of people who are diehards who are

1:05:39

trying this thing out and your app

1:05:41

is there and you also have an

1:05:43

app for I phone or I pad

1:05:45

or whatever, you can increase the visibility

1:05:47

of. Your more kind of high volume app that's

1:05:50

on a platform that's used by more people and

1:05:52

that can benefit you to. So there are some

1:05:54

arguments to be made, but bottom line is if

1:05:56

you're selling a four dollar app or something and

1:05:58

they are only going to. The four hundred

1:06:00

thousand of these. How much time should

1:06:02

you put it that I question was

1:06:05

what is your friends between watching Netflix

1:06:07

in Safari which you will be able

1:06:09

to do and say watching a Disney

1:06:11

movie in the Dizzy Plus app is

1:06:13

well as Still As Pope is So

1:06:15

Sorry and right but Cel rounds you

1:06:17

can download so you can't download a

1:06:19

Netflix. Disease. Gonna have those immersive

1:06:21

backgrounds and Disney will have three movies that

1:06:23

you will be able to watch And that

1:06:26

won't be the case with Athletics. So there

1:06:28

are a bunch of reasons I think Netflix

1:06:30

in the browser will be fine. But as

1:06:32

Stephen said, No. Downloads which is

1:06:34

bad for the whole once a movie on

1:06:36

a plane. Fang though it had point when

1:06:38

people on here I can. I'm actually flying

1:06:40

in March two parties movement and I will

1:06:42

have the Vision pro and I plan to

1:06:45

try to use it on a plane. I

1:06:47

was going to be probably the only while

1:06:49

looking person on their slant eyed and will

1:06:51

have the a Marvel movie Stephen that's what

1:06:53

it's gonna be Now it's gonna be. It's

1:06:55

gonna be a sword to the time to

1:06:57

walk around and analysis confirms my choice as

1:06:59

a smith us a prompt us just literally

1:07:01

Sd card or of sorry micro sd. Card

1:07:03

you see micro sd card slot of our

1:07:05

a move when you know as as I

1:07:07

get mine on both sides. Of

1:07:10

sorry on the summer forty years bc hub

1:07:12

into that battery pack of of isn't broken

1:07:14

I want to know what you can actually

1:07:16

use owner be interesting stuff here is there

1:07:19

is a files app on as he isn't

1:07:21

throw some a risk next and as he

1:07:23

could wring your moves on movies on an

1:07:25

Ssd was you plug into your battery. Which.

1:07:28

Even. Developers apparently have

1:07:30

had like a Us B strap that that

1:07:32

attaches that lets you tether it to X

1:07:34

code on a map and I don't know

1:07:36

whether that will ever be available in if

1:07:38

that's the only way you can do us

1:07:40

be or if there's something with us be

1:07:42

passed through that will actually let you do

1:07:44

it, but there's A. There's some questions about

1:07:46

access because it probably is. all. this can

1:07:48

be cloud based but still will be video.

1:07:50

I mean mark my words right by there

1:07:52

will be a video player app like there

1:07:54

is for the quests where you can go

1:07:56

out to I, U P M P Server

1:07:58

or just. and smb share and take

1:08:01

a file and download it and put it in there.

1:08:03

I mean, those apps, if they aren't

1:08:05

already in the store, they will be generic video

1:08:07

player apps like, you know, Plex like things. Those

1:08:09

will all be there. Yeah. One of the challenges

1:08:11

for me is to make a video on this.

1:08:14

You can airplay what you see in Vision Pro

1:08:16

to like a Mac and even to an iPhone

1:08:18

and iPad. And so I can record the AirPlay

1:08:21

stream, but there's going to be a lot of

1:08:23

latency there and it'll be low res. I want

1:08:25

to know, can I connect this HDMI out so

1:08:28

I can maybe screen record that? I don't

1:08:30

know. I remember in the early days of

1:08:32

the iPhone, they made a really fancy rig

1:08:34

that was Apple only to show

1:08:36

the iPhone screen. I remember

1:08:39

Alex Lindsey talking about trying to duplicate that. Eventually

1:08:41

you were able to get video out of the

1:08:43

iPhone, but it took years. I actually

1:08:45

wonder if you'll be able to do screen recording, Steven,

1:08:47

and if that might be the best way to do

1:08:49

it. Turn on screen recording and then

1:08:51

it'll just save it to your capacious one terabyte of

1:08:53

storage and then you can get it off of there

1:08:55

later. Maybe that'll work. I got that one terabyte. I'm

1:08:58

just saying. I'm also

1:09:00

not. External storage for your iPad. I

1:09:03

do have some concerns for smaller developers because

1:09:05

it's iPad app, iPad apps that can run

1:09:07

on Vision Pro natively. You can just whatever,

1:09:10

leave the box checked. But I've talked to

1:09:12

some developers who have iPad apps and use

1:09:14

the Apple pencil as a main point of

1:09:16

using the application, whatever those features may be.

1:09:19

And the Vision Pro is going to be

1:09:21

a very different input method. And

1:09:23

if I want to edit podcasts, like I do

1:09:25

on iPad in Vision Pro, I don't

1:09:28

know how that's going to work with just pinch gestures

1:09:30

and like doing this to zoom in. I tell you

1:09:32

one thing, you're going to have a splitting headache in

1:09:34

the, uh, at the end of the day, that maybe

1:09:36

that's the big, that's the big question for me

1:09:38

is the ergonomics, right? Like people are like, Oh,

1:09:41

what do you, what do you think about the

1:09:43

software? It's like, okay, well, one is the weight

1:09:45

is going to be question number one. Right. Like

1:09:47

that is, that is the most important thing. And

1:09:49

already some reviewers have said, now they haven't allowed

1:09:51

the reviewers to wear the top strap, but some

1:09:53

reviewers have already said, including Marquez Brownlee, wow, this

1:09:55

thing is heavy. Although ironically, it's not heavier than

1:09:58

the Quest Pro, but the. The

1:10:00

price for it is a top strap that offloads

1:10:02

some of the weight. So you'll definitely want, and

1:10:04

I'm sure, Steven, since you bought all the accessories,

1:10:06

you bought the weight offloading. Well, it comes

1:10:08

with two. It comes with both straps. The strap comes

1:10:10

with a... That's a bargain. Okay. That's

1:10:12

a bargain. They discovered

1:10:15

that for extended use, you got

1:10:17

to have the top strap, right? For

1:10:19

like off and on easy casual stuff, they've got

1:10:21

that nice padded back strap, but I think they've

1:10:24

discovered that you got to have the actual

1:10:26

proper strap if you want to use this for any

1:10:28

length of time. Again, we don't know,

1:10:30

and nobody's really outside of Apple used it for more than

1:10:32

30 minutes, so we'll see. The other thing, by the way,

1:10:34

that I'm skeptical about based on my

1:10:36

30 minutes with it back in June is

1:10:39

the viability of that screen in

1:10:41

terms of text. They were like, oh, look

1:10:44

at how good the text is in Safari

1:10:46

and you're scrolling web pages. And I'm like,

1:10:48

I don't know. I mean, if you do

1:10:50

the math of the two screens and the

1:10:52

size of these windows and

1:10:54

the space that you're in that's being

1:10:56

covered by those two screens, it's

1:10:59

not like retina text. It's

1:11:02

kind of grainy. And so I think

1:11:04

there's a real question of this whole productivity thing is about

1:11:06

putting windows everywhere and being able to use them. But like,

1:11:09

is it... Are

1:11:11

you really going to do that or is that going to make

1:11:13

your head hurt because the text isn't clear enough? I don't know.

1:11:16

I'm also still concerned about the

1:11:18

fundamental issue of your eyes... You're

1:11:22

asking your eyes to focus on an object that

1:11:24

is like an inch

1:11:26

or two away from physically that is

1:11:28

virtually several feet away. And

1:11:31

this is a well-documented problem where it causes eye

1:11:33

strain, it causes a lot of people heading. It's

1:11:35

just a no-go for a certain amount of time. It could

1:11:38

be our sickness. That's the...

1:11:40

Yeah, and Apple... Neither Apple nor anybody I've

1:11:43

talked to has indicated that, oh, don't worry.

1:11:46

We've made the breakthrough that solves this problem.

1:11:49

Everybody says it's frame rate. It ain't frame

1:11:51

rate. You're exactly right. It's a difference... Again,

1:11:53

you have two systems for determining

1:11:56

distance. Walter Murch pointed this out years

1:11:58

ago. You have two... for that

1:12:01

the eye convergence and what

1:12:03

was the other one I care and and focus

1:12:05

basically focus on muscles were yeah exactly you have

1:12:07

to you've muscles that are basically pivoting your eyes

1:12:09

in and out to target to

1:12:12

converge on the object you also have

1:12:14

muscles that are actually basically

1:12:16

adjusting focus and your body if

1:12:18

those don't match your body

1:12:21

says oh you ate something bad you better throw

1:12:23

it up now you're

1:12:25

tripping balls man and and

1:12:28

and that is something nobody is addressed

1:12:31

everybody says Oh frame rate will fix that

1:12:33

they have a lot of hand waving I'm

1:12:35

not convinced US Air Force when it

1:12:38

was doing simulators

1:12:41

did a lot of testing they said there's about 11% of

1:12:45

people who use these simulators will have VR sickness

1:12:47

which could last as long as 24 hours

1:12:49

they said we don't let them drive

1:12:51

cars after they use

1:12:54

the simulator for another day consumer

1:12:57

product that makes somebody the 11% of the

1:12:59

public sick is doomed if you

1:13:02

ask me go ahead Stephen say

1:13:04

why we're wrong no no no

1:13:06

I just want to challenge Jason to write a 5,000 word

1:13:08

piece on the virtual keyboard come

1:13:12

on he's gonna come on the

1:13:15

show one eyeball will be pointing

1:13:17

this way when I

1:13:20

think I think text inputs interesting I think a

1:13:22

virtual keyboard is probably gonna be terrible it's one

1:13:24

somebody says one key at a time right it

1:13:27

doesn't yeah yeah you're just doing this

1:13:29

basically understanding they didn't show it to us

1:13:31

which is a it's a real sign when

1:13:33

they didn't show it to us I think

1:13:35

I think our voice is gonna be more

1:13:38

important right like you're gonna you're gonna opt to

1:13:40

either use an external keyboard or you're gonna use

1:13:42

your voice to do some input I think those

1:13:44

are the most likely ways typing on in

1:13:47

outer space is not gonna

1:13:50

be it's funny too because the way they're doing it is very

1:13:52

iPhone like I don't I don't know again I only use it

1:13:54

for half an hour and they didn't let me do anything I

1:13:56

wanted I was going through their demo but like I am struck

1:13:58

by the fact that it's like an iPhone keyboard

1:14:01

floating in space that you do this to, I

1:14:04

would think that you'd

1:14:06

be better off, you know, putting it,

1:14:08

it can see your fingers, right? I would think

1:14:10

you would be better off typing

1:14:12

on a like a virtual keyboard where

1:14:15

it's basically mapping your finger location to

1:14:18

a keyboard. Apparently they didn't do that. You

1:14:21

know, I don't look at my keyboard when I

1:14:23

type and I'm doing this and could they figure

1:14:25

that out? Maybe they tried it and they couldn't

1:14:27

get it to work, but like doing this is

1:14:29

not gonna cut it. Yeah, I saw a sample,

1:14:31

I can't remember whether it was provided, but it

1:14:33

must have been provided by Apple, but a sample

1:14:35

of here is what a workspace might look like

1:14:38

and it wasn't just simply this person using the

1:14:40

virtual keyboard, it was using the video pass through

1:14:42

so that they're using a physical keyboard, using a

1:14:44

physical mouse and they can use the video pass

1:14:46

through to orient their fingers on the keyboard. Again,

1:14:48

I don't know what looking, trying

1:14:50

to interact with real objects, even at

1:14:52

super high frame rate 4K video, I

1:14:55

don't know if that's, again, if you've got a

1:14:57

physical keyboard in front of you, you are not

1:14:59

into, oh, let me just dash off a few

1:15:02

emails while I, before I slay some orcs in

1:15:04

3D space, it's, no, you have

1:15:06

brought this to your hotel room or

1:15:08

to your Amtrak seat, to

1:15:10

your table someplace to actually do productive

1:15:12

work and we're gonna

1:15:14

find out exactly what the productivity story is

1:15:17

gonna be on it. A lot of these

1:15:19

questions will be solved, of course, right

1:15:21

after February 2nd, but the bigger

1:15:23

question is gonna take

1:15:25

longer to solve, which is what

1:15:28

is this for? It took a couple years

1:15:30

before the Apple Watch really figured

1:15:32

out what it was for. Some

1:15:35

people, I've heard people say, well, it needs a

1:15:37

killer app, there is, we don't know what that

1:15:39

might be at this point. Is it for entertainment,

1:15:41

watching movies? Is it for productivity? Is

1:15:44

it for playing games? What

1:15:46

is this for and what are people, you know, getting

1:15:48

the most value out of? I,

1:15:50

as you know, I'm the skeptic in the

1:15:53

bunch and it's actually career

1:15:55

suicide for me not to buy one. Because

1:15:58

every, you know, if you're a user, YouTuber

1:16:01

you damn well better buy one right

1:16:03

Steven because you're gonna be you're gonna be

1:16:05

surrounded by youtubers going ah Whoa

1:16:07

amazing or there'll be a whole bunch of people

1:16:09

saying it was crap I know it was gonna

1:16:12

be crap, but they'll all have one and they'll

1:16:14

have all have the scary eye Look

1:16:16

on on their thumbnails, and

1:16:19

I'm sitting here saying I am gonna stand

1:16:21

by my Original thought

1:16:23

which is it's not worth the money, and

1:16:25

I'm not gonna buy it which really please

1:16:27

me out Well, it's gonna be a

1:16:29

lot like the original Apple watch where it's gonna

1:16:31

take a year or two for to see what

1:16:33

what do people? Actually want this for what do

1:16:36

people find the most value? But I think to

1:16:38

use cases because I've been trying to think like

1:16:40

what are the killer apps or whatever You know

1:16:42

when it gets cheaper, and it might be accessible

1:16:44

to things like schools I remember

1:16:46

when I was younger planetarium experiences I remember

1:16:48

having those as a kid and it was

1:16:50

like really affecting and even no school is

1:16:52

gonna buy a device that That's a $3500

1:16:54

one did that is cheaper You

1:16:58

know when it's cheaper, and well yeah,

1:17:00

so my answer to this which everybody says oh,

1:17:02

but Leo's just the first It's gonna great great

1:17:04

It's gonna be important is it's like you're trying

1:17:07

to sell me a car with square wheels I'll

1:17:09

wait till the round wheel version comes along.

1:17:12

I'm not I'm not convinced so

1:17:14

there's a lot of speculation There's gonna be

1:17:16

a great platform someday. Okay fine when it

1:17:18

is. I'll let you know I don't

1:17:21

think what we're seeing today is is a great platform,

1:17:23

but I could be wrong I'm willing to be wrong

1:17:25

unfortunately. I'm surrounded by people who are spending $3500 to

1:17:28

find out yeah, or you're Again,

1:17:33

this would this be this is gonna be so

1:17:35

fun to explore and to play with but I

1:17:38

think this is this is why the Reviews are

1:17:40

gonna be kind of interesting because I think that

1:17:42

the best reviews are gonna keep have to keep

1:17:44

both ideas in mind that Okay, this is 1.0

1:17:46

of something on the other hand it is this

1:17:48

isn't again This isn't like Google Glass or Apple

1:17:50

or Google is explicitly this is an experiment that

1:17:52

we're playing with We don't know if I have

1:17:54

something here. It was why we're making this in

1:17:56

limited Yeah,

1:17:58

yeah exactly Apple is saying, hey, come

1:18:01

into our store and buy this completely ready $3,500

1:18:03

consumer device.

1:18:05

It's like, okay, that means that if

1:18:07

the keyboard sucks, I have to say

1:18:10

this keyboard totally sucks and the

1:18:12

first and last paragraphs of the other review are going

1:18:14

to have to be, you

1:18:16

just pray to God that in a year, Apple will

1:18:18

find just car keys and figure out how to make

1:18:20

this thing work if they don't get it hit out

1:18:22

of the bat. Out

1:18:25

of the box. I

1:18:27

honestly think that no

1:18:29

sensible reviewer at this point will say, oh,

1:18:31

you need to buy this. No.

1:18:34

No, I mean, there'll be some hype,

1:18:36

but this is for people on

1:18:38

the ... I mean, I could write the review now

1:18:40

in some ways, right? Because this is the best case

1:18:42

scenario is this is promising and it's for people on

1:18:44

the cutting edge and it might turn into something, but

1:18:47

nobody's really sure what. And we don't ... You

1:18:49

shouldn't feel any shame if you're not

1:18:51

ready to step on board yet. Like

1:18:53

I said, at least there will be

1:18:55

reviews and you will get some idea

1:18:57

from that. And then even then, I

1:18:59

mean, in 1977, they put out personal

1:19:01

computers and they cost a lot of money

1:19:04

and they didn't do anything. And it

1:19:06

was okay for almost in

1:19:08

the world to say, I'll check back in

1:19:10

in 10 years. Like it's okay.

1:19:13

It's okay. I want to take a little break.

1:19:16

Let me take a little break and we'll come back and then hold

1:19:18

your thoughts, Steven, and you're next. But

1:19:20

I do want to take a little break here as

1:19:22

you watch MacBreak Weekly. Jason Snell, Andy

1:19:24

Inocco, filling in for Alex Lindsey this week,

1:19:26

the great Steven Robles. The Bearded

1:19:28

Teacher at beard. ... Is

1:19:31

it beard.com? Beard.fm. FM,

1:19:34

that's right. Radio Beard.

1:19:36

Radio Beard and primarytech.fm. What's

1:19:39

primary tech? You didn't

1:19:41

mention that last night. New tech

1:19:43

show that I launched with Jason Aten. He's a technology

1:19:45

writer at ink.com. And so yeah,

1:19:48

new show, podcast, YouTube, all that. You've

1:19:51

already scooped us on the Vision Pro. But you don't

1:19:53

just do Mac stuff. I see you have an S24.

1:19:56

We're trying to expand our... technology

1:20:00

world. We did some Samsung Galaxy stuff

1:20:02

but still very Apple. Yeah. Well

1:20:06

it's great to have you. Thank you Stephen. I always

1:20:08

love having you on the show. This is the part

1:20:10

where I beg. Say

1:20:13

please give us your money. You see

1:20:15

how frugal I am being? I did not buy

1:20:17

a Vision Pro? Okay Mike did.

1:20:19

But but we've actually

1:20:23

told Mike you could buy it. How long do you

1:20:25

have to return it? A

1:20:27

week? A month? A year? 30 days. 30 days. We told

1:20:29

Mike to buy it and return

1:20:31

it in 30 days and you can

1:20:34

you can do as many reviews as you want

1:20:36

between now and then because frankly

1:20:39

money's tight and we want to keep the lights on. We

1:20:41

want to keep the shows going and most importantly we want

1:20:43

to keep people like Micah employed. We've

1:20:45

had to cut back quite a bit because

1:20:48

advertising revenue is is completely

1:20:51

plummeted and you're seeing this across the

1:20:53

board not just podcasts. Sports

1:20:55

Illustrated. Just kind of basically

1:20:57

fired everybody. I

1:21:00

mean this is a bad time for some reason

1:21:02

for advertising. I think all the money is going

1:21:04

to use Stephen. It's all going to YouTube influencers

1:21:06

but I don't know anyway.

1:21:08

I don't get any sponsorships. Not to do ads

1:21:11

then. Okay there you go. Alright. But

1:21:13

actually doing it using Google and

1:21:15

YouTube and so forth is probably

1:21:17

a decent plan. Our

1:21:19

plan is a little different. We really like the idea.

1:21:22

I'm from day one have wanted to do this but

1:21:25

the infrastructure wasn't there of having

1:21:27

our audience support us. That's

1:21:29

why we created Club Twit. We try to keep

1:21:31

it affordable. Seven dollars a month. We've also tried

1:21:33

to keep it desirable. So for

1:21:35

seven bucks a month you get ad-free versions of everything

1:21:37

we do including shows we don't put

1:21:40

out in public like iOS Today

1:21:42

is now behind the paywall. Hands-on

1:21:45

Macintosh. Hands-on Windows. Scott

1:21:48

Wilkinson's home theater geeks. All of that

1:21:50

is on the Twit Plus feed. Actually

1:21:52

they each have individual feeds. There's a

1:21:54

Twit Plus feed with content before and after

1:21:56

the shows. And My favorite part of the

1:21:58

membership is this great... On to

1:22:01

discord or where you can join with our

1:22:03

hosts are producers are our guest house and

1:22:05

chat talk about the things you care about

1:22:07

much as the shows but everything. All of

1:22:09

that for seven bucks a month I think

1:22:11

we give you pretty good value. But.

1:22:14

It makes such a difference. Does your seven dollars

1:22:16

a month means we can continue doing what we

1:22:18

do and going forward? That's that's what's gonna take.

1:22:21

We're gonna need to see some real growth in

1:22:23

the club We going to need to hear from

1:22:25

me right now. It's less than two percent of

1:22:27

the people listening the show right now. Support.

1:22:30

Us to the club. I'd like to get that. It.

1:22:32

Didn't have to be all of you as he can

1:22:35

afford it. I understand. The. Wing it had to

1:22:37

five percent. Or we don't have to

1:22:39

worry about advertising. So if you are not yet

1:22:41

a member, please do a favor go to Twitter

1:22:43

Tv. Slash. Club Twits I

1:22:45

we we on that trip page do the

1:22:47

survey to tweet that he be seiser rates

1:22:50

twenty four there's only about a week left

1:22:52

on the survey. We want to get everybody

1:22:54

from every show Willis's every show responding to

1:22:56

wanna give the representation especially for you mack

1:22:58

break with the listener since you are so

1:23:00

to that he be so I survey twenty

1:23:02

fourth take the survey does take a couple

1:23:04

minutes as when we can support as the

1:23:07

other way to include that he. says.

1:23:10

Sense. For. Your

1:23:13

support. So how

1:23:15

do we get a I right? Well,

1:23:17

we need the right volume of

1:23:19

data. The software the train as

1:23:22

an immersive compute. Power or another

1:23:24

one bites the dust. Are

1:23:29

you. Are not with H P

1:23:31

Green Lake we get access to supercomputing

1:23:33

to power a out the stair we

1:23:35

need helping generate better insights. Close

1:23:40

to my eyes such as be

1:23:42

granted did. I.

1:23:46

Did you whole decided to put a pin

1:23:48

in It's even? Or do each remember when

1:23:50

I do just real quick I'm curious what

1:23:52

embodies thought I looked back. When

1:23:54

the Apple Watch launched, it was

1:23:56

a new product product category for

1:23:58

Apple. The reviews. From people like

1:24:00

The Verge, nobody came out April eighth. Rear.

1:24:03

Preorders were after that on April

1:24:06

tenth. And. Then the watches available.

1:24:08

April twenty fourth. So. He had full

1:24:10

on reviews. Two. Weeks before.

1:24:13

I'd. Even you know you would

1:24:15

have it in hand. All we have

1:24:17

are some Instagram photos from influencers and

1:24:19

like Al Broker wearing the Apple Vision

1:24:21

Pro taken by Apple. Yeah, by the

1:24:23

way, that's a good point when Apple

1:24:25

invited people in. They. Would let you.

1:24:28

Take pictures yourself and note none of the

1:24:30

pictures have the battery pack. And

1:24:33

for some reason every sitting down which

1:24:35

really worries me. I hope this isn't

1:24:37

a sit down only experience. There was

1:24:39

one guy standing up and like a

1:24:41

Matrix style coat or in his photos,

1:24:43

sunglasses and on who's just one guy

1:24:45

as soon as he wears a long

1:24:47

coat. is I stand up please? You

1:24:49

gotta respect the coat. Have an Earth

1:24:52

like a coat. Are we gonna see

1:24:54

early reviews of this thing before February

1:24:56

seconds? Or this is going to be

1:24:58

to have an Apple curated Pr. Thing.

1:25:00

And until them until the last eight

1:25:02

and isn't isn't a little suspicious when

1:25:05

the Apple doesn't. Let

1:25:07

people see the reviews before they booed. I

1:25:12

don't know. I think I do suffer and I

1:25:14

can see receive formal reviews and I think we're.

1:25:17

Just. Two days before be black to start

1:25:19

getting sarkozy them before people start actually going

1:25:21

into the stores which is par for the

1:25:23

course. like to imagine like Tuesday or Wednesday

1:25:25

at the latest because I think I mean

1:25:27

apple has to know that they don't have

1:25:29

that they can't make enough for if is

1:25:31

the worst thing would be if they had

1:25:34

immense amount of demand as kind of a

1:25:36

blessing in disguise. that's a if all these

1:25:38

of all the supply chain issues are truth

1:25:40

that they can only make bought a half

1:25:42

a million a year cause that means that

1:25:44

the only people that are going to be

1:25:46

buying. them are the people who

1:25:48

are really super super motivated to

1:25:51

own actually think there's a confirming

1:25:53

data point there i expected to

1:25:55

see massive ad campaign for this

1:25:57

thing and the own ad I've

1:26:00

seen so far is very, very

1:26:02

low key. It's just a bunch

1:26:04

of people wearing headsets from Jordy

1:26:07

in Star Trek to Obi-Wan Kenobi

1:26:09

putting a headset on Luke Skywalker

1:26:12

to Iron

1:26:14

Man and then it says and the

1:26:17

implication is the future is coming but

1:26:20

it's not a hard sell on Vision Pro it just you

1:26:22

know briefly says Vision Pro. Now maybe Super

1:26:24

Bowl Sunday there'll be something more but I

1:26:26

but this is on all the NFL playoffs

1:26:29

I thought I'd see a lot more. I think

1:26:31

you're right Andy I think that's Apple saying we don't need to

1:26:33

sell this thing. We've already sold it out

1:26:35

basically. Yeah again we started the

1:26:38

show talking about people

1:26:40

who were so so

1:26:42

bedazzled by the Mac that hey I

1:26:44

am willing to do incredibly complicated surgery

1:26:46

to get a lot more storage into

1:26:48

this thing. Those the sort

1:26:50

of people that are still buying Macs to this day

1:26:53

I think the first generation are both

1:26:55

are gonna be on two sides

1:26:57

of the spectrum. People who are just either

1:26:59

whether they're Apple people or not they are

1:27:02

just really excited about the latest and greatest

1:27:04

that they don't their only expectations is to

1:27:06

have an adventure to have an experience

1:27:08

with this and the people who

1:27:10

are like gristened beaten down

1:27:12

by life like reporters and reviewers

1:27:14

who are like but it does

1:27:16

nothing. The goggles they do nothing

1:27:18

you know so

1:27:21

it's gonna be a year remember that

1:27:23

when I look what everybody who bought

1:27:25

who has one like in February like

1:27:27

Steven Jason like you can look forward

1:27:29

to exactly like when I went through

1:27:31

when I had like one of the

1:27:33

first e-bikes like you become a brand

1:27:35

unpaid brand ambassador. Hey is that

1:27:37

those bikes that has an electric motor like

1:27:39

yeah it is like what kind of range

1:27:42

you get oh usually about you know 20

1:27:44

to 30 depends how much like that's right

1:27:46

and I can still like quote like the

1:27:48

spiel of every single question you get because

1:27:50

just like with the first iPhone which was

1:27:52

not not sophisticated enough to be competitive on

1:27:54

a line item basis it was not a

1:27:56

competitive product with other smartphones of the day

1:27:58

it was completely unusable for

1:28:01

a lot of people. If

1:28:03

you were using a phone at Enterprise,

1:28:05

it was absolute no

1:28:07

sale. However, for the first two years, three

1:28:09

years it took to get to there, people

1:28:11

who were not interested in buying it right

1:28:14

now were around people who were using it

1:28:16

and who got those little demos from ordinary

1:28:19

human beings who were like, oh yeah, no, I really

1:28:21

do. The keyboard is not really that great. I really

1:28:23

wish it had cut and copy pays. I kind of

1:28:25

miss having an app store, but here's what I can

1:28:27

do with media. Here's how much interesting it is to

1:28:29

use it with a camera. And so they're primed so

1:28:31

that when it comes time for them to buy their

1:28:33

next phone, maybe the next phone is going to be

1:28:36

on their list. Now this is not totally

1:28:38

applicable because it's not like, oh gosh, I kind of

1:28:40

like my existing

1:28:42

VR goggles, but I'm considering getting the Apple,

1:28:44

no, you have to sell people on the

1:28:47

idea of, you have to give them the

1:28:49

memory of two years ago when they're at

1:28:51

your friend's house and you're playing Beat Saber

1:28:53

or whatever the killer Vision Pro game is

1:28:55

going to be for the time

1:28:58

when you actually got a chance

1:29:00

to see what it was like to surf the web with

1:29:02

this sort of thing and create your own sort of workspace

1:29:04

with it. And at that point

1:29:06

it will be hopefully like a $900 device

1:29:08

with a good app store with just like

1:29:10

with the Apple Watch Apple saying, okay, turns

1:29:13

out we were completely wrong as to what

1:29:15

this thing was for. We have adjusted our

1:29:18

development of this thing to do

1:29:20

the things that people are actually using it for. And at that point

1:29:22

you'll get the people's $900 or $1,100. It's

1:29:28

going to be harder too because like iPhone, Apple

1:29:30

Watch, someone asked like, hey, what is that? Can

1:29:32

I see it? They literally just look at it.

1:29:34

Whereas the Apple Vision Pro, someone asked like, hey,

1:29:36

can I see that? Let me see your inoculation

1:29:39

card first. Secondly, well,

1:29:46

also you've got your lenses and a whole bunch of

1:29:48

topical things. Although I guess you could pop those out

1:29:50

pretty easily. And then it's, and then that's

1:29:52

why you buy an extra $200 forehead

1:29:55

piece because Let me

1:29:57

put this again, forehead. That

1:30:00

really don't know how do you how to put

1:30:02

as a guest mode really quickly as that's gonna

1:30:04

be a thing as it does have a guest

1:30:06

mode here. and by the way, Scooter X had

1:30:08

a really good points to tequila. also makes a

1:30:10

certain percentage of people throw up the still drink.

1:30:13

it's so. I. Guess this is

1:30:15

this is like tequila for your eyes. This.

1:30:19

I could be a good slogan out

1:30:21

the Clyde Idol: Otaku prefer outdoors. That's

1:30:23

actually I was lobbying for cooks folly,

1:30:25

but I know that that's insists on

1:30:27

them to a Pdf who's spent so

1:30:29

much Most. Sensitive. As

1:30:31

presenting it I have read and it's

1:30:33

I have I admit. Totally

1:30:35

I biased against it.

1:30:38

Prejudgment: I've. Tried the other Vr

1:30:40

helmets and I've decided I don't need a

1:30:42

nerd helmet. Nine of the Gap was going

1:30:44

to do anything that makes it better except

1:30:46

make it more expensive, which really doesn't. Help.

1:30:49

Yeah, it's it's it's It's hard to

1:30:52

the point because were singled somewhere, video

1:30:54

from the of from the rabbits of

1:30:56

a I handheld device and lessons learned

1:30:58

like al two hundred bucks exits and

1:31:00

that's and it's intellectual say okay oh

1:31:02

my god with the latency of then

1:31:04

oh my god this to happen said

1:31:06

they really haven't shown how well and

1:31:08

will interact with spot a fire with

1:31:11

all my things as they still haven't

1:31:13

really gone into it's however the basic

1:31:15

premise of the thing is that oh

1:31:17

and basically instead of having like using

1:31:19

multiple. Apps and side of phone of as my

1:31:21

interface to the entire world I can just simply

1:31:23

have a a brief interaction with this little hand

1:31:26

held devices designed by teenage sons engineering and so

1:31:28

their wealth. Through lot of problems with that one

1:31:30

things that have been decided but a lot of

1:31:32

people can immediately cease see that kind of would

1:31:34

be I kind of one is more see that

1:31:36

as an app on my phone but I kind

1:31:38

of get power least with his first version. They're

1:31:41

saying that well what if you kept your phone

1:31:43

your pocket all the time or left it at

1:31:45

home because you just occasionally have to have a

1:31:47

conversation with this thing Whereas for the vision. Pro:

1:31:49

Like Stephen said, you have to as. Someone.

1:31:52

Has to figure out why they even want the sort

1:31:54

of thing. And they can't say games because if they

1:31:57

say games to say oh well, you know there's this

1:31:59

other games. One that's a third of the

1:32:01

price and is already being really well supported by.

1:32:03

and actually that does also play Netflix and you

1:32:05

Tube. and you can also have a virtual screen

1:32:07

and that's that's that's going to be Apple's hardest

1:32:10

Cell which is. A I

1:32:12

keep saying that could this could be the

1:32:14

next I phone, this could be the next

1:32:16

new message pad and that's it gets people

1:32:18

interested in the concept of this thing and

1:32:20

aware of the concept of this things. But

1:32:22

then as soon as Palm O S comes

1:32:24

by A it comes by. Say yes. How

1:32:26

about if this didn't cost a quarter of

1:32:28

of I'm of of the amount This could

1:32:30

sit inside your pockets of view buried deep.

1:32:32

You develop your own apps for it and

1:32:35

you could actually a actually use it. and

1:32:37

forty where we throw everything. That was a

1:32:39

cool engineering demo but didn't actually make it

1:32:41

more. Practical, but that's what Apple could be

1:32:43

facing. Hopefully they'll be the person who make

1:32:45

that that divide stuff like that just like

1:32:48

the Mack basically made no, made that no

1:32:50

point to having a and happily says they

1:32:52

could create the visions. Teddy

1:32:55

I think and Steve that is in your

1:32:57

area. I think it's more likely for the

1:32:59

reason Bread Newton and I bought a bunch

1:33:01

of Nunes. More likely like the Newton. That.

1:33:03

Is is likely a the ipod hi fi.

1:33:07

I. I have been saying this

1:33:09

for a while now, which is I

1:33:11

think Apple started this project and that

1:33:14

Apple believes that the biggest threat

1:33:16

to the I phone in a long

1:33:18

term is a pair of actual glasses

1:33:20

yeah and were agree that have augmented

1:33:23

reality overlaid on them Any only

1:33:25

way. That you. Could make

1:33:27

that product is by starting now.

1:33:29

And that they want to be the ones

1:33:31

who replaced themselves if that, if that comes

1:33:33

to fruition. If it doesn't, if it's something

1:33:36

else, So. Be it, Apple's got

1:33:38

a lot of money and they are trying

1:33:40

to protect their you know, the I phone

1:33:42

or build it's replacement if they have to.

1:33:44

So I do think I'm nervous and stories

1:33:47

of this affects. I do think that the

1:33:49

long term endgame for Apple is a pair

1:33:51

of reasonably sized glasses that people can were

1:33:53

in public and that will have that whole

1:33:56

i mean you can see it in a

1:33:58

way They demo this now. they. Once

1:34:00

you to use a are as much

1:34:02

as possible I think that that is

1:34:05

their ultimate goal and apple they are

1:34:07

so profitable. They are so. Of

1:34:09

flush with cash. And.

1:34:12

That they can afford to make bets like that.

1:34:14

This is for. We have impacted by yet about

1:34:16

how apparently Apple is has a scaled back and

1:34:19

change said strategy with the car. but that's a

1:34:21

car Project is a similar thing where it's like

1:34:23

Apple has and Google and Facebook likes. they all

1:34:25

have so much money that they can afford to

1:34:28

a certain degree to place bets. And I think

1:34:30

the Vision Pro. I don't think that there are

1:34:32

many people Apple who believed that the teacher is

1:34:34

a big thing on your face, the completely close

1:34:37

as you off in the world and then maybe

1:34:39

they can pipe some of the world back through.

1:34:41

But the technology to do what they want?

1:34:44

Isn't. Gonna be ready for five or

1:34:46

ten or fifteen years. It's just not

1:34:48

and a for your. The way that

1:34:50

don't get there is by slipping this

1:34:52

thing learning. Wow, the software works, learning

1:34:54

how people use it in a pushing

1:34:56

display technology forward and eventually getting where

1:34:58

they wanna go at it. That's true.

1:35:00

Then again, when have been saying all

1:35:02

along today which is there's no shame

1:35:04

in you're not using a one point

1:35:06

out at a hardware in a new,

1:35:08

relatively new category because you know maybe

1:35:10

waiting five years is the right answer.

1:35:13

Maybe even Apple. Fix that. Was

1:35:15

a bit. it does make you that's it's an excellent point

1:35:17

with does make me wonder like why they didn't decide to

1:35:19

go. And. Completely the opposite direction.

1:35:21

Same things because you can make a

1:35:23

very there. There is display technology that

1:35:26

can simply overlay into your peripheral vision

1:35:28

and or corner of your spectacles. Monochrome,

1:35:30

high resolution, Very very readable, Very very

1:35:32

personable Text even told texts against through

1:35:34

clear lenses so that you are still

1:35:36

sing the world's you're just getting sort

1:35:38

of like an Apple Watch experience of

1:35:40

old. By the way, here is something

1:35:42

that's happening that may be want to

1:35:45

keep an eye on or I'm going

1:35:47

to interrupt you. You say that you

1:35:49

want me to schedule. something for your he

1:35:51

want to take a note here is my feedback

1:35:53

to you on how well and my god i

1:35:55

hope you doing that are taking steaks it makes

1:35:58

sense that would be very for pass Google

1:36:01

was kind enough to buy a company that was

1:36:03

making really great eyeglass technology like that and then

1:36:05

just use it for one demo at their developer

1:36:07

conference last year and now they seem to have

1:36:09

buried it. But I wonder why

1:36:12

this discussion was, no, let's make this

1:36:14

really aggressive, immersive, virtual reality goggles that are

1:36:16

going to where the first half hour of

1:36:19

any conversation is going to be, there's no

1:36:21

way I can be seen in public wearing

1:36:23

this. Also, this is cutting me off from

1:36:25

the entire world and I don't want this.

1:36:27

It's your kind of in their test lab.

1:36:30

I think I 100% agree with you Jason. That

1:36:33

makes perfect sense. And

1:36:36

there was no way they could really develop this

1:36:38

without releasing a product even though

1:36:41

it isn't anywhere near the final vision

1:36:43

or the final product or anything most

1:36:45

people would ever want. That's

1:36:47

not the issue. You're basically, 180,000 of

1:36:50

you are agreeing to be guinea pigs,

1:36:52

not guinea pigs, that's not a good. Beta

1:36:56

testers for a product that is

1:36:58

going to come out 10 years from now. We

1:37:00

didn't use to call it beta testing but I

1:37:02

think that's the right concept. It's very early in

1:37:04

a product cycle, you're going to get this and

1:37:06

I think that's okay. I think

1:37:08

what they want is okay as long as everybody understands

1:37:10

that's what it is. Well, right. And I think that

1:37:12

reviews will say that for the most part

1:37:15

and that'll be a good thing. But I think what

1:37:17

Apple wants to do, what they hope is, even if

1:37:19

they know that this is just the beginning and there's

1:37:21

a long way for them to go, what they want

1:37:23

is for people to decide to discover some good

1:37:25

use cases in the meantime. This is

1:37:27

a little like HoloLens being like, you'll

1:37:30

use it in business. I should

1:37:33

point out that Microsoft has basically

1:37:35

abandoned HoloLens. They're very expensive. They

1:37:39

went all in on it. They

1:37:41

pushed it to the army, they pushed it to business and

1:37:44

it's really, I think at this point

1:37:46

you can say a flop. It's gone. Right.

1:37:48

So, and Meta is sort of saying, well, we're

1:37:51

going to just keep trying with social but in

1:37:53

the meantime there's also games. Well, actually Meta is

1:37:55

saying in the meantime there's also AI and we're

1:37:57

going to divert $10 billion a

1:37:59

year. For vr day I because

1:38:01

as at. It. And right. But but

1:38:03

I would say for Apple again, think about

1:38:05

the fact that Apple is always thinking and

1:38:07

they should always be thinking absolutely what replaces

1:38:10

the I that's the other end with and

1:38:12

and they the great Steve Jobs way the

1:38:14

our own replacement. And then I think they're

1:38:16

worried that some sort of last thing is

1:38:18

ultimately will will need smartphones anymore as the

1:38:20

runway wherever we run of us. Yeah and

1:38:22

if that is the case. but what they

1:38:25

want in the meantime is for this to

1:38:27

be useful in some way, right? Like you

1:38:29

tend to, ten years of a product that

1:38:31

nobody wants for anything, it's. So that

1:38:33

the three movies and the maybe it's

1:38:35

productivity and like this the killer app

1:38:37

for it may be not as killer

1:38:40

as like. Good enough to give it

1:38:42

some applications that naked have a little

1:38:44

bit of an audience in order to

1:38:46

keep it alive while they figure it

1:38:49

out. Why? As a nice forcing Jamie

1:38:51

harder? Why they present productivity and movies

1:38:53

but not gaming so much. I.

1:38:56

Mean as a really been what Vr has

1:38:58

been all about as it feels to me

1:39:00

like it's an internal struggle at Apple to

1:39:02

there will be games on it. I wonder

1:39:04

if. Who. Who won that struggle of

1:39:07

of know we're going to go on called

1:39:09

Space of Computing and say it's a computer

1:39:11

and not due to the optionally like controllers

1:39:13

and things like that. Because it would be

1:39:15

and maybe they felt like most men already

1:39:17